Congressional Hearing Exposes ICE Paramilitary Tactics and Unlawful Forced Entries — AC1N

[0:01] Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. [0:03] Of course, I want to thank our witnesses again for being here, [0:05] a really important testimony. [0:06] I particularly want to thank, you know, Mr. Schwenk, [0:10] your courage for coming forward and your story. [0:13] I think it's just obviously so important. [0:14] I just want to thank you for pointing out how critical it is [0:18] that we are following the law and the Constitution. [0:20] And I want to just also make something really clear. [0:23] This is also about safety in your own home. [0:25] This is about ensuring that every single American feels [0:28] that their home is a place for safety for themselves [0:32] and for their family. [0:34] Now, Ms. Gibson-Brown, you experienced the results [0:36] of the Trump administration's new unconstitutional policy [0:40] in person, and it was an attack on your own home [0:43] and your own family. [0:44] I want to thank you for telling your story. [0:46] And the American people should understand [0:48] and see exactly what this looked like in practice. [0:51] Now, with your permission, we have asked to show a video [0:54] so that people can understand what actually happened, [0:57] what the federal government actually did to you. [0:59] So this video is just a short minute. [1:01] We're going to play it real quick on the screen. [1:59] You know, that's really, I think, that's hard to watch, [2:01] I think, for anybody. [2:02] And I'm sorry, Ms. Gibson-Brown, that you had to experience that. [2:05] But I think it's important for the American public [2:07] to see that video. [2:09] That could happen to any person in this country. [2:12] And some of what you said, [2:15] there are kids in this house, show the warrant first. [2:19] Where is the warrant? [2:21] Shameful what you had to go through [2:23] and your family had to go through. [2:24] Now, Ms. Gibson-Brown, you are an American citizen, [2:26] is that correct? [2:27] You asked for a warrant, is that correct? [2:31] Yes. [2:32] And did they show you a valid warrant signed by a judge? [2:36] No, they did not. [2:37] They did not. [2:38] Now, Mr. Schwenk, before this new policy [2:40] that you reported about, [2:42] would it have been legal for these officers [2:44] to come into Ms. Gibson's home [2:46] without a warrant signed by a judge? [2:48] Thank you, Congressman. [2:50] No, the answer is it would not have been legal [2:52] either before or after this memo came out [2:54] for them to go into that home. [2:55] Thank you. [2:57] Now, Ms. Gibson, [2:58] ICE brought overwhelming military-style force [3:01] into your home. [3:02] Is that not correct? [3:03] Correct. [3:04] They forced their way into your home [3:06] with no warrant, correct? [3:08] Correct. [3:09] They put your children in danger. [3:11] Is that how you felt? [3:12] Yes. [3:13] Can you think of any justification [3:16] why this level of force, military force, [3:20] would be needed to forcefully enter your home? [3:24] No, I can't think of any. [3:26] This is what happens [3:29] when we disregard the Constitution, [3:31] when we disregard the rights of people [3:35] in this country. [3:36] This is wrong, it's outrageous, [3:38] and every person should be ashamed [3:40] of our own government [3:41] for causing this kind of terror, [3:42] not just to you [3:44] and to your own family and neighborhood, [3:46] but to folks across this country. [3:49] There's no other way to describe [3:51] what they're trying to do [3:52] than to terrorize communities and neighborhoods. [3:55] I want to say I am sorry [3:59] for what you've had to experience. [4:01] I know that is not enough. [4:03] This government should be not just apologizing to you, [4:06] but for righting. [4:07] They should try to right that wrong, [4:09] and the obligation of all of us here in this room [4:12] and across the country [4:13] to stand up to this charity. [4:14] So thank you. [4:15] And Senator, I yield back. [4:16] Thank you, Congressman Garcia. [4:18] I'm going to hold up two posters. [4:20] One of them you've just seen [4:22] is what happened at your home. [4:24] The other is of a memo. [4:28] Mr. Schwenk, I think you'll recognize this memo. [4:36] It is a memo written by Acting Director Lyons. [4:43] We've seen it before at this hearing. [4:46] It says, in effect, ICE officers should violate the Fourth Amendment. [4:51] Were you taught or told that you should train ICE agents [4:58] in accordance with this memo? [5:00] Thank you, Senator. [5:02] Yes. [5:03] On the very first day I arrived at Glencoe to teach, [5:06] I was told that we were to instruct cadets [5:09] to follow the instructions in this memo, [5:12] but that we would not write down any of those instructions, [5:16] that we would not keep a record that we taught it to them. [5:19] That's a critical point, because I asked Acting Director Lyons [5:26] whether this memo was distributed, [5:29] and he said, in fact, that it was with an email [5:33] that so far they have failed to produce. [5:36] What you're saying is that you were told not to reveal it. [5:41] Correct? [5:42] Thank you, Senator. [5:44] Yes. [5:45] I was told not to discuss this memo. [5:46] In fact, when it was shown to me, [5:47] I was told not to take notes on it, [5:49] that I was not allowed to write down any part of it. [5:51] And for the record, as an attorney for ICE [5:54] and someone who routinely receives memos [5:56] and memoranda issued by the agency, [5:58] this had never crossed my desk before I arrived at the academy. [6:01] So, in effect, you were told, as an instructor on the law, [6:08] that you were to train ICE agents how to break the law. [6:12] I think every American should be absolutely horrified by that fact. [6:18] And you were not alone. [6:21] This memorandum was the basis for training ICE agents generally. [6:27] Hundreds, thousands of them during this fiscal year. [6:31] Let me ask you about topics that there were practical exams on. [6:38] And I'm going to show you another chart, which in effect, and you've seen it, [6:47] it's difficult to decipher in this form, but it depicts the topics of exams [6:55] that were given, practical exams and coursework. [6:58] You've testified as to the reduction. [7:01] Is it a fact that there was an elimination, not just a reduction in hours of training by almost half, [7:14] but also on critical substance matters, topics that should have been trained? [7:21] Thank you, Senator. That is accurate. [7:23] What you're looking at on those two charts, [7:25] the shorter one is the amount of testing that's given now in practical exams. [7:30] The longer one are the practical exams that were given by ICE in this training program [7:35] before the current surge training scores. [7:38] Those exams that you see there, the longer list, [7:42] every single one of those was designed to test whether or not cadets could apply in the real world [7:47] the things they were learning in the academy. [7:49] Vital lessons on things like how to use their firearms safely, [7:53] how to encounter an individual they intended to detain, [7:58] much like Ms. Gibson Brown's husband. [8:01] Classes that teach them how to do their job safely and lawfully [8:05] were removed from testing. [8:08] And what testing was left was reduced [8:13] or essentially neutered by the way it was given. [8:17] Tests that were designed and written to be closed-book [8:22] where cadets were tested on what they could remember [8:24] because, again, go back to, I said this earlier, [8:26] officers have a split second to decide something. [8:29] So everything we do is oriented to giving them that split second to act. [8:35] They have to know everything for it. [8:36] We took away the ability to test whether they could. [8:39] But what those ICE officers did to Ms. Gibson Brown, [8:44] what they did to countless people in Minneapolis, [8:49] what they are continuing to do across the country [8:52] was not the result of split-level decisions. [8:55] It was the result of a conscious, purposeful, deliberate policy, [9:01] carefully taught and trained. [9:05] And in fact, the reduction in training, for example, on pistol use, [9:10] on use of force, on other vital topics, was regrettable. [9:19] But the effects were truly shocking. [9:22] Let me ask you, because just in the time that we've released these documents, [9:28] DHS has come forth with a statement. [9:30] I'm going to quote it. [9:31] Under these new improvements, [9:35] candidates still learn the same elements [9:37] and meet the same high standards. [9:39] ICE has always required. [9:41] No subject matter has been cut. [9:45] Is that statement accurate, Mr. Schwang? [9:48] Senator, that statement is not accurate. [9:50] Not in even the slightest sense. [9:53] It is untrue. [9:54] Would you agree? [9:55] Sir, I'd call it a lie. [9:56] Congressman Garcia, if you would call on someone from your side. [10:00] Thank you, Senator. [10:02] Representative Ansari. [10:03] Thank you, Ranking Member Garcia and Senator Blumenthal, [10:08] for convening both House and Senate Democrats [10:10] to continue our oversight of DHS's lawlessness and brutality. [10:14] The Trump regime has used its paramilitary force, DHS and ICE agents, [10:20] to terrorize communities and families all across the United States. [10:25] These agents are told to engage in illegal and unconstitutional activity, [10:30] including illegal use of administrative warrants [10:33] to invade private homes and mass surveillance [10:36] to collect data on millions of Americans. [10:39] Here is just one example. [10:41] ICE agents breaking down the door of Miss Tiana Gibson-Brown [10:45] without a warrant to arrest her husband, Garrison Gibson. [10:50] This fascist paramilitary force, particularly border control agents [10:55] and ICE, are completely untrained to conduct police activity [10:59] in American cities, resulting in chaos and deadly harm [11:03] to both members of the public, like Alex Preddy and Brittany Nicole Good, [11:08] as well as to officers. [11:11] It is horrific. [11:12] It is racist. [11:13] It is fascist. [11:14] And it is totally illegal. [11:16] This is still America. [11:18] Rules apply and the Constitution matters. [11:21] Under DHS use of force policies, ICE and Border Patrol agents [11:25] must comply with the Fourth Amendment's restrictions on the use of force. [11:29] That is, that agents may only use force when, quote, [11:34] no reasonably effective, safe and feasible alternative appears to exist, end quote. [11:41] Instead, agents are engaging in a free-for-all, [11:44] shooting, tasing and pepper spraying wherever they see fit. [11:49] Secretary Noem should resign in disgrace or be impeached. [11:53] She will go down in history as one of the worst accomplices [11:57] to this massive abuse of power. [12:00] We need to rein in ICE and hold the Trump-Epstein regime [12:03] accountable for its crimes. [12:05] Now, I want to turn to our witnesses, [12:07] and I want to thank all of you for being here today [12:09] and bravely speaking out to shine a light on these abuses. [12:13] My first question is for Mr. Bunnell. [12:17] Yes or no, in the absence of an emergency, [12:19] are ICE and Border Patrol agents legally allowed [12:23] to knock down someone's door without a judicial warrant and probable cause? [12:28] They are not. [12:29] And yes or no, also for you, [12:32] have ICE and Border Patrol agents acted illegally [12:36] in forcing entry to private homes over the past year [12:39] without judicial warrants and probable cause? [12:41] Based on the reports that we've seen today [12:45] and what we've heard about, it sounds like they are, yes. [12:48] And Ms. Gibson-Brown, yes or no, [12:51] did federal agents present a legal judicial warrant to you [12:54] when they broke down your front door with a battering ram [12:57] and entered with guns pointed at you while your daughter was home? [13:02] No, they did not. [13:03] And to Mr. Schweng, thank you so much for your testimony today. [13:09] Yes or no, are ICE agents being told they can force entry [13:12] into private homes without judicial warrants? [13:14] Yes, they are. [13:16] And you said in your introduction, quote, [13:19] there was a secretive order to train officers [13:22] to violate the Constitution. [13:24] Yes or no, ICE agents are being directed to break the law [13:28] and violate the Constitution with such directions. [13:31] Yes, they're being instructed to violate the law [13:35] and enter homes using the I-205 warrant process, [13:38] which is just a permission slip. [13:40] It's not a real judicial warrant. [13:41] Thank you. [13:42] Thank you. [13:44] What we are seeing around the country is an authoritarian police state, [13:49] the kind created by a shameless authoritarian Donald Trump [13:53] to preserve and expand his power at the expense of our constitutional rights. [13:58] I will not stop fighting against this fascist paramilitary force. [14:02] And again, I want to thank the witnesses for your bravery [14:05] and for your testimony and for your patriotism today. [14:08] Thank you. [14:09] I yield back. [14:11] Thank you. [14:12] Senator Klobuchar. [14:13] Thank you. [14:14] I thank my colleagues for this important hearing today. [14:16] And I will say I've repeatedly challenged my Republican colleagues [14:20] that if you believe in the Constitution, [14:23] then you believe in the First Amendment's right to assemble, [14:27] if you believe in people's liberties. [14:29] If you believe in the Constitution, [14:31] then you don't go after people for having a legal permit to carry [14:34] like they did to Alex Preddy, [14:36] then you believe in the Second Amendment. [14:37] If you believe in the Constitution, [14:39] then you believe in the Fifth Amendment right to due process. [14:42] And if you believe in the Constitution, [14:44] you believe in the Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure, [14:49] which is the major part of this hearing that we're talking about today. [14:53] And I would start with you, Mr. Bunnell. [14:56] Thank you so much for coming forward. [14:59] In your written testimony, you noted that the DHS legal training materials [15:04] previously called physical entry into a home without consent or a judicial warrant, [15:10] the chief evil against which the wording of the Fourth Amendment is directed. [15:15] As you know, Justice Scalia once wrote that when it comes to the Fourth Amendment, [15:21] the home is first among equals. [15:24] Can you explain why the home holds this special importance under the law? [15:31] Thank you, Senator. [15:33] The Supreme Court has spoken to this numerous times over the decades and centuries. [15:38] The home is the core thing that is at the heart of the Fourth Amendment protections. [15:45] It's the sanctity of the home. [15:47] It dates back to the traditions in England before the Declaration of Independence [15:53] and the sort of notion that a man's home is his castle. [15:58] And so this is a deeply rooted principle of American jurisprudence. [16:05] Thank you very much. [16:06] And I know we've had it happen numerous times. [16:08] It wasn't just in the case of sad case of Ms. Gibson Brown in front of her nine-year-old daughter, [16:15] husband, sister. [16:16] It also happened to a Hmong elder who was dragged out of his house by mistake [16:21] and the coldest day ever in his underwear and thrown in a car and driven around for 24 hours. [16:27] So, Ms. Gibson Brown, you had just come back from your night shift as a nurse. [16:32] Is that right? [16:33] Yes, ma'am. [16:34] And that's why you're wearing the scrubs in the video? [16:36] Yes. [16:37] I had fell asleep with my scrubs on, yes. [16:39] And you work in intensive care unit, is that right? [16:43] A pediatric intensive care, yes. [16:45] And how long have you been doing that? [16:47] 21 years. [16:48] So there you are, you're home, and then suddenly your husband wakes you up and tells you that this has happened. [16:54] Could you talk about how you felt at that moment? [16:58] I just didn't understand because he had just checked in, and then he had another check-in for the 26th, [17:07] and it was my son's birthday that day, so I was just in shock. [17:12] And is it true then that Judge Bryant, who used to, for my colleagues, should know this, [17:17] he was an assistant U.S. attorney, worked as a prosecutor, and then in the last few years, [17:24] this went through a confirmation hearing and became a federal judge. [17:27] He's the judge that then issued an order that this was illegal. [17:32] What happened to you? [17:33] Is that correct? [17:34] Yes. [17:35] Thank you. [17:37] Mr. Schwenk, thank you for coming forward, as my colleagues have noted. [17:41] And I want you to go over again, because it was just so shocking to me, [17:47] what was eliminated from the training of these ICE agents, [17:51] just because it's been my constituents that have been dragged out of their homes, like the Hmong elder. [17:57] And it is my constituents that have seen repeatedly the racial profiling and this illegal use of force. [18:04] Tell us what was omitted, taken away from this training when our colleagues, in the last few years, coinciding with last summer, [18:12] when they gave them an extra $75 billion. [18:15] What was taken out of the training, Mr. Schwenk? [18:17] Thank you, Senator. [18:19] What was taken out of the training were classes on use of force, specifically classes taught by the legal department, as well as classes taught by other units. [18:28] What was taken out was almost 16 hours of firearms training, classes that teach them how to use their weapons correctly and safely. [18:34] What was taken out were classes on how the Constitution works, what the constitutional requirements are for their job, and constitutional limits on their authority. [18:43] In fact, the class where we talk to the officers and teach them about the rights of protesters was cut from a two-hour program into about ten minutes. [18:52] They got shoehorned into a lecture on what the concept of seizure is. [18:55] There are others. There are many other classes that were cut, but I think these are the most critical for your question. [19:00] Thank you. [19:02] Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. I'm going to call on Representative Randall. [19:10] Thank you so much, Senator, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today to shed light on the blatant disregard of the rule of law that we have seen from this administration. [19:22] They're executing illegal warrants in violation of the Fourth Amendment, preventing members of Congress from exercising their lawful congressional oversight duty, [19:30] and failing to uphold tribal sovereignty by rounding up and detaining tribal citizens. [19:36] I visited the Northwest Detention Center in my district six times to ensure that immigrants are being treated with dignity, with humanity, and with care. [19:45] And what I've seen on each and every visit is a stark reminder of the chaos, the pain, and the confusion at the hands of Donald Trump, Stephen Miller, and Kristi Noem. [19:57] And what happens when policy is developed from a place of hate and not a place of facts. [20:04] I've heard report after report of the denial of basic rights within the facility in my district, and twice I've been illegally denied entry when attempting to conduct an unannounced oversight visit to further investigate these concerning reports. [20:17] And we know that this is only one of the many ways in which this administration is acting illegally. [20:23] There are 12 tribal nations in my district, and I've heard concerns from so many of them about how ICE and CDP are racially profiling tribal citizens and detaining them, people who are indigenous to this country. [20:36] I've had tribal citizens tell me they're sending their kids to school with their tribal IDs on them out of safety and fear. [20:46] And when tribal members show their tribal IDs to ICE and CDP, those officers lack any understanding of tribal ID cards. [20:53] Last week, Secretary Noem wrote to tribal leaders claiming that no enrolled tribal citizen has been detained and that no ICE operations have occurred on tribal lands. [21:04] And this is a pure lie. She's calling every tribal citizen who has spoken out about their experience liars, and it is disgusting. [21:13] Mr. Bonon, how are ICE and CDP educating and training officers and agents on the United States government to government relationship with Indian tribes? [21:27] You know, I might want to punt that one to Mr. Schwenk in terms of the training. [21:36] I'm not familiar exactly with how that topic is covered. [21:41] I will say it was not an issue that percolated to the upper ranks of the department during my time. [21:49] It is quite concerning in a way that I hadn't heard before. [21:55] So thank you for raising it. [21:56] Thank you so much. [21:58] We've continued to hear concerns, not just in my district when we were in Minnesota. [22:03] I heard the same thing from tribal leaders there who were looking out for and advocating for the safety of constituents, of their neighbors, of tribal members who, you know, are stopped because they are brown and forced to prove that they are not only indigenous to this land, but that they are citizens. [22:24] This may be a question for Mr. Schwenk also. [22:29] Given that some tribal leaders have encouraged their members to carry tribal IDs to show ICE and CDP in case they're detained, do you know, are ICE and CDP agents trained on how to identify a valid tribal ID? [22:46] I do not think of the question, but I do not have any particular information on how they're trained to identify a tribal ID. [22:53] I do know there are general classes on identification documents that they take, but again, because we have eliminated practical testing, I have no idea if they're actually learning it. [23:03] Yeah. [23:04] In the materials ITH, where I taught for the academy, the only things we discussed involving Native Americans were the possibility that some Native American tribes have the ability to cross the United States border. [23:14] That was really all we recovered in that side of it. [23:17] Thank you. What about racial profiling? Can you tell us what guidance was provided to ICE agents regarding racial profiling? [23:24] Yes, Representative. In the training material that we taught, the material calls for the department to follow the Department of Justice's guidelines on the use of race and other factors in law enforcement operations. [23:37] But in practice, what the cadets are taught is to follow what's called the Kavanaugh stop. That is that they are allowed to use race as a factor, not the sole factor, but a factor in their operations. [23:51] Thank you. I think we've all seen the disturbing effects of that practice in our communities and across the country, and I really appreciate you for being here and sharing. Thank you. I yield back. [24:02] Thank you, Representative Randall. Senator Wells. [24:06] Well, thank you all very, very much, each of you, and we're all horrified at what happened to you, Ms. Gibson-Brown. [24:14] Let me just ask a question, Mr. Schwenk. With respect to that attack on the home of Ms. Gibson-Brown, aside from the warrant question, why in the world and in what world did we need a force with automatic rifles, combat fatigues, helmets, [24:36] the whole military operation? What part of Homeland Security requires that to go to this woman's home? [24:45] Thank you, Senator. I can address that question to some degree. Part of that I have to defer on because I believe it might reveal tactical practices of the agency, and I don't feel comfortable disclosing that. [24:58] But to what I can address is that those officers in that situation, regardless of how they show up to the scene, however they're dressed, whatever equipment they're carrying, [25:09] are supposed to know their constitutional law, their understanding of what their authority is, well enough that regardless of whatever orders they receive before they show up. [25:18] Let me interrupt for a second. I get that. I'm just shocked that you would have that level of force to show up at this woman's home. [25:28] I mean, my view of that is intended to intimidate not just Ms. Gibson-Brown and terrorize her family and her children. It's intimidating to everybody in this country to see that level of force. [25:41] How about you, Mr. Vanell? Thank you so much, by the way. The deep state, I just laughed when I heard that, because, you know, my sense of what you do and your colleagues and people who've been career prosecutors suggest a commitment to the Constitution, a commitment to professionalism, a commitment to duty. If that's the deep state, that's pretty good state to be in. I want to express my gratitude for the work you are doing in your [26:12] and your colleagues. But what about this question of having a decision made by a superior to deploy people in combat gear, automatic rifles, to go out to a citizen's home? I mean, leave the warrant part of it alone. With or without a warrant, I'm shocked that that is what you had to arrive home to. [26:33] Well, I share your reaction to it as kind of wildly over the top. I mean, why you need to dress like you're invading a rock in order to go apprehend somebody who is not a fugitive. I mean, I think that's the point that gets lost a little bit is, yes, there may be some probable cause that somebody is removable. [27:00] But a warrant is usually something for somebody who is a fugitive. [27:05] Right. As I understand, you know, Mr. Gibson's situation, he had removal orders. He received a removal order in 2009, and he'd been checking in regularly as he was supposed to, including right up shortly before this. [27:21] That's a discretionary decision by somebody higher up in the chain that sent these officers out in that way, right? [27:31] Yes. It was not a judicial officer. It was somebody, their supervisor in the field office. [27:40] Yeah, and it's part of the Kristi Noem terror campaign against Americans. [27:43] Right. I would also just note that to the extent that ICE at least purports to want to have a strong partnership with state and locals and would like to improve their reputation in the communities that they say they're trying to protect and serve, this strikes me as an extremely, shall we say, odd way to build trust and credibility with either the people of the community or the state and locals. [28:09] How about counterproductive? [28:11] They're probably much stronger words that could be at a minimum odd and counterproductive. [28:16] Let me ask both of you. Is there any justifiable reason, any justifiable law enforcement reason, that the standards of training and safety and policing that apply to the Burlington, Vermont police force, to the Vermont state police force, to police forces in all our jurisdictions in the country should not be [28:40] applied to ICE. [28:44] Mr. Schwenk. [28:45] Thank you, Senator. And my answer to your question is no. At a root level, all law enforcement should be trained to a minimum standard to understand when they can and cannot enter a home, when they can and cannot use force, when they can and cannot make an arrest. [29:00] And this was the point I was approaching earlier, Senator, is that regardless of how they showed up at the scene, regardless of how they were told to dress when they came there or what they were told to carry, every one of those officers was supposed to know what they were allowed to do under the Constitution. [29:15] And that was the point of the training program, is to teach them to know that and to know it well enough that even if they got an order that was unlawful, they would know not to follow it. [29:23] Thank you. Thank you. My time is up. Thank you very much. [29:28] Thank you. Next, I'd like to call up Representative Watkinshaw, please. [29:33] Thank you, Ranking Member, and thank you all for being with us. [29:36] We're a nation in crisis right now. The Trump administration has turned American cities into war zones, unleashing mass minimally trained agents and claiming, falsely claiming that these agents have absolute immunity from prosecution. [29:50] Now, DHS has embarked on a secretive campaign, as we've heard today, in disregard of the Constitution to allow warrantless entry into the homes of U.S. citizens. [30:01] And I just have to say, you know, I serve in the House of Representatives with a lot of folks. [30:05] I serve in the House of Representatives with a lot of folks.