Closing arguments begin in Rodney Hinton Jr. murder trial

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: The evidence you already heard from the witness stand and from the exhibits that have been admitted. Closing arguments are just a summary from the attorneys to tell you what they think the evidence is. You decide for yourselves what they think the evidence is and how they want to convince you to decide the way they want you to decide the case. It is not evidence. Okay? Alright. Ready? Alright. Here we go. Whenever the state's ready. [00:00:30] Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody. Can you hear me? Yes. Can I move this up a little bit? [00:00:51] Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just trying to keep it up. The sun out of your eyes. [00:00:54] Speaker 2: Okay. [00:00:54] Speaker 1: That's all. [00:00:54] Speaker 2: Alright. I understand. I understand. I'm going to try to keep my voice up. But you've heard about our technology challenges, so if you can't hear me, please raise your hand. Deliberate. Aggressive. Purposeful. Intentional. Make no mistake. This was murder. The evidence has shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this man, Rodney Hinton Jr., killed Deputy Larry Henderson. The state has met its burden. And we are going to ask you at the end of today, when we close, to define the defendant guilty of all charges. Now, before I go any further, I would be remiss if I didn't thank you, and I mean that sincerely, thank you. I know it's been a really long two weeks, and I know that you've sat here, and we have covered a lot of material in a very short amount of time. We can tell that you've been paying attention, I've seen you taking notes, and you've put up with all of our technology challenges, our lawyer-ese, and I just ask you if you can hang with us for a little bit more. That's another lawyer-ese, by the way, because I mean a while longer. It's going to be a minute this morning, and just give us that same attention that you've been giving us the last two weeks. Because, like I said when we started this whole process, it's just that important. I told you when we started about two weeks and a day ago that there was no confession in this case. And so you were going to have to infer the defendant's purpose, his state of mind, from what was going on around at that time, from the evidence, from the expert testimony. You all agreed that that was something you could do. And the evidence and the testimony at trial leave no question, it was the defendant's purpose and specific intent to kill Deputy Larry Henderson in May of 2025. You also agreed that you would not leave your common sense at the door in evaluating the evidence, and I'm asking you to remember that. When we're finished here, the judge is going to give you jury instructions. They're going to be lengthy, you heard her say they're 38 pages long the other day. That can seem rather daunting. But I promise you, it's not going to be nearly as hard as you think it is. And my goal here today is to help give you a road map, a guide, if you will, to help break down those 38 pages so you can see how to proceed. Think of it like a criminal law class in an hour that might usually take a half a semester. Some of these charges overlap, and it's going to feel that way, but remember and listen to the instruction. You are to consider each of them separately and apart from the other, okay? And so by the end of this closing, you will have answered three questions, I hope. One, did he intend to do it? Two, did he know Larry Henderson was a police officer standing there on that corner? And three, did he know it was wrong? Keep those questions in mind. I'm going to come back to them. But truly, why are we here today? We're here because Larry Henderson was a husband, a father, a veteran, a foster dad, a law enforcement officer. And after more than 30 years of long shifts, hours at work, time away from his family, he had earned his retirement. Five months in, choosing his own schedule, still giving back to his community as a special deputy, it abruptly ended. On May 2nd, Laurie had the rare early moment with him in the morning, before he left for work, a chance to say, I love you, to get a final kiss goodbye, one last time. Larry drove to Clifton, he parked his Jeep at the corner of Burnett Woods and Martin Luther King Drive. He got out, and he put on his traffic safety vest, his Hamilton County Sheriff's deputy hat. And he began his shift, managing traffic for the University of Cincinnati's graduation ceremonies and move-out day. Without knowing it, he had become a beacon, leading the defendant straight to him. The defendant saw Larry standing on that corner. He pulled into the center lane, and he waited. Fifteen seconds. And then he drove his car straight in to Deputy Larry Henderson. Larry saw it coming, but just barely, and took a step to get out of the way. But the defendant tracked him. He turned his wheel in the same direction that Larry moved. And the car struck Larry, throwing him, tossing him into the air, twisting him, until he landed. His head smashing on the pavement, while his hat gently floated down onto the passenger side of the defendant's car. What remained of Larry's duty to protect, resting over the defendant, who was sprawled on the passenger side of the car underneath. This case began with the car. This case began with the filing of an indictment. Five counts. As you know, the defendant entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. But that does not change the state's job. We still have the burden of proving to you the underlying five counts beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why you heard from multiple witnesses, and we admitted over two dozen exhibits. We took that burden on as the state of Ohio. And when you apply the law to the evidence, you will find that we have met it on every one of these five counts. Let's start with count one, aggravated murder. Now, Judge Lubbers is going to tell you that before you can find the defendant guilty of aggravated murder, you're going to need to find that on May 2nd of 2025 in Hamilton County, Ohio, the defendant purposely caused the death of Deputy Larry Henderson, a law enforcement officer, whom the defendant knew or had reasonable cause to know, was a law enforcement officer, and it was under, and it was, the defendant's specific purpose to kill a law enforcement officer. That's a mouthful. Even I got it twisted up there. So, let me start with the elements that are not in dispute, so we can focus on those that are. First, the date. May 2nd, 2025. There is no question that that is when this happened. Next, where it happened. Hamilton County, Ohio. One of the main things that you have heard through this trial, and you'll hear again in jury instructions, is that nothing I say, defense counsel says, my co-counsel says, is evidence. This element proves that point very clearly. You may have wondered why we kept asking throughout the course of the trial, did this occur in the city of Cincinnati, Hamilton County, Ohio, to a variety of witnesses? And the reason we did that is because a jury who is seated needs to hear the case in the county where the event happens. So, you're seated as jurors in Hamilton County, and the event has to happen in Hamilton County. And because I can't just tell you that, it must come in through evidence. So, the evidence showed that the defendant committed this act in Hamilton County through the testimony of the witnesses. The third point is that Rodney Hinton Jr., who did this, in most cases, that's the key, right? Who did it? But that's not this case. There is no question that Rodney Hinton was the driver of that car that day. There are multiple witnesses who put him in that car, and you heard the defense stipulate on more than one occasion to the identification of the defendant. There is no dispute that the man sitting here in this courtroom today is the person who did this. What else is not disputed? You heard from Dr. Benjamin Criss. His testimony was another difficult piece of evidence we recognize for you to hear. But we have to put on evidence from the coroner of the death to show that the defendant killed Larry Henderson and that he died as a result of the injuries that were inflicted upon him. There was no other cause for his death. But for being forcefully hit by a motor vehicle, he would not have died on that day. Note in the report the cause of death, blunt force injuries to the head and torso. Note the manner of death, homicide. It is not disputed additionally that, back to our technology issues, I apologize for that. It's also not disputed that Larry was a law enforcement officer. You heard from Deputy Steve Sabers about his certification, but you also have a stipulation. The court read that to you. The same is true for his job as a special deputy, that he was performing his duties as a law enforcement officer at the time this happened. That is also not disputed. In addition to testimony, there was a stipulation to that. So that brings us to our first question. Did he intend to do it? That is what is disputed. The mens rea, the criminal intent, his culpable mental state. So, you need to find that the defendant purposely caused the death of Larry Henderson. So what does it mean under the law to do something purposely? It means to do it with intent, not by accident. A person acts purposely when it is his specific intention to cause a certain result. The question is, did the defendant specifically intend to kill Larry Henderson, a law enforcement officer? And I submit to you that the answer is yes. But, you do not need to just take my word for that. The law tells you how to determine a defendant's purpose. And you'll hear this in the instructions. You're going to look at the weapon he chose, the manner in which the act was done, and all the other facts, circumstances, and evidence. When someone uses a deadly weapon in a manner calculated to destroy life, you are permitted, not required, but permitted, to infer the purpose to cause death. From the use of that weapon, a two-ton car, 43.97 miles per hour, driven straight at Deputy Henderson, who was standing on the traffic island. The Ford Focus is a deadly weapon, and it was used in a manner calculated to destroy life. So, let's talk about manner. I want to direct your attention to the testimony of Specialist Mike Flam, as you consider the manner in which this act was done. Specialist Flam is a crash reconstructionist, and he told you his work is based on scientific and mathematical principles. You're going to weigh his testimony the same way you weigh other witnesses' credibility, but you also consider his experience, his skill, his background, his knowledge. So, what did Specialist Flam tell us? He found that the vehicle inspection showed the brakes and tires were in proper working order. The defendant stopped and went from 0 to 43.97 miles an hour in seconds. Flam said, very hard acceleration. The accelerator was pressed 93.3%. There was no panic braking, just enough to turn the lights on. And small, steady steering corrections kept that Ford focused on Deputy Henderson. He was in control of that vehicle. As Specialist Flam told you, fine motor skills applied. Nothing was wrong with that car. The brakes worked. The tires were appropriate. Everything that happened that day was in the driver's hands. Driver input. Take some time to look at Flam's Diagram Number 1. Where the Ford was, second by second, in the last five seconds. [00:14:34] Speaker 3: Follow it, five seconds out, four seconds out, three seconds out, two seconds out. Look how quickly we're moving at one second out. [00:14:45] Speaker 2: That is not a car drifting. That is deliberate and purposeful driving. This is the car's own data. The last second before impact. In tenths of a second. Look at the last column, the steering wheel. For most of that second, the wheel is essentially straight. Then, at three-tenths of a second, it starts to turn. 5.7 degrees. 25.8 degrees. Then 69 degrees at impact. That is a hard turn to the left. At the same moment, Deputy Henderson was trying to get out of the way. Now, don't get distracted. You're going to hear that it was only six inches. This move happened in three-tenths of a second before impact. You heard Specialist Flam. There wasn't time for the car to go further than six inches because it made impact. The data shows the intention. It shows the manner in which the car was being driven. You will have the video that Specialist Flam used. Look at it. Go frame by frame. A turn to the left is a turn to Deputy Henderson. Now, here are two frames from that video. Watch. The first red line. The car is heading toward the pole where Larry Henderson is standing. Then, a frame later, it abruptly turns left. And, when he makes that left-hand turn, Deputy Henderson is stepping to his right to get out of the way. The car turns into him. And the right leg is snapped. Showing that step out. That point of impact. Specialist Flam concluded the car steered to keep on its path. That hard turn to the left was aggressive and deliberate. That was driver input. The defendant turned the steering wheel. The impact with the pole and Deputy Henderson was almost simultaneous. The human eye would not perceive the difference. The time of impact is almost identical to the left turn. As Specialist Flam put it, the timing is impeccable. As Deputy Henderson moved to the defendant's left, the vehicle moved to the left. And the time of impact lines up with Deputy Henderson's attempt to move to the right. Those are Flam's own words. The defense has suggested he was aiming for the pole. We agree. Because that's where Larry was standing. And Specialist Flam told you the pole and Deputy Larry Henderson were almost hit simultaneously. So a reminder of how purpose is determined. We've talked about the weapons used. We've talked about the manner in which it was done. You may consider all the other facts and circumstances and evidence. So let's look at the evidence. The judge is going to tell you there are two kinds. Direct evidence, what the witness saw or heard, and circumstantial evidence. Facts which you can reasonably infer according to common sense, which you've promised to bring in here with you today. And the law gives them the same weight. You are the sole judges of credibility and deciding whether to believe a witness, their interest in the outcome, their relationship, what you heard. The judge will tell you it's the quality of the evidence that matters, not the quantity. Ask, what is reliable? What is consistent? What is corroborated? Here, we've shown you the bus video, Specialist Flam's report you will have with you. You've heard witness accounts, body-worn camera, the coroner's findings, facts that aren't in dispute. But we're not saying that because we called a number of witnesses and we've entered these exhibits that we've proved our case beyond a reasonable doubt. One witness can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt. We're saying that the quality of the evidence that we have presented to you proves the case. The evidence presented is more than one witness's perception from one vantage point. It's all of the testimony and evidence combined. So let's talk about evidence. Look at the video closely. Zoom in. Larry is standing right next to the poll. You can see his yellow reflective vest. He has up to a five- or six-foot cord in his hand, and he is not far from that box. You heard from four drivers who saw it happen from four different places on the road. Kevin Broman. Oh, my God, he just hit the cop. Head-on, full spree, no braking. Derek Moore. Full acceleration down, heading to where the officer was. No braking. Jayden Skeens. Straight to the pole. No screeching. No braking. And Patricia Pavlitz. He hit the pole and bounced into the deputy. No slowing down. No braking. Four drivers. Four vantage points. Not one saw him brake. Not one saw him slow down. And every one of them saw the officer before they even noticed the defendant's car starting to move in his direction. You walked the scene. Remember your view of the traffic triangle from up the road on that clear day? The same kind of clarity that existed on May 2nd of 2025. Remember the short distance from where you stood at that painted green line to the pole and the traffic island? Remember the traffic box that was attached to that pole? These are things you can consider when you're evaluating all of the evidence. You also heard testimony about this car. Take a minute. Look at the pictures. Look at the report from Specialist Flam. Look at the width of the car. Look at the target area. The pole. And look at the point of impact on the car over here on the right side with the pole. You have Officer Cole's body-worn camera. And I know that was difficult to watch. I really do. Murder cases are hard because they always involve death. And the state has to prove that the person was killed, that this was a homicide. And so sometimes, as part of that, we have to show evidence of the dead body. And I understand that's hard to see and watch. But we showed you one body camera of hundreds. And the reason we showed it was not to have you have to experience that, the difficult scene that you saw. We showed it because it is a live scene. It was within minutes of the crash. You can see where everything was. You can see how clear the weather was that day. You can see visibility. You can see the witnesses that were here testifying in court. And it corroborates what they said they were doing at that time, from praying to helping. It helps show you that their credibility in weighing that. It shows the deputies in the same uniform that Larry had on. It shows you their yellow traffic vest at that time. It shows you May 2nd, 2025. And I promise this is 15 seconds. It's not going further. So why does this video matter? The CIS video, the court sequence video that you saw on a fairly numerous occasions, slowed and stopped and we went back to it. It's important because it shows where the defendant is coming from. It shows his behavior. It shows he was the driver of the car. It shows how he drove through Clifton. It shows him inching in front of Hughes, which was described by his cousin as being agitated. It shows him pulling into the center lane and waiting 15 seconds for traffic to clear. And it shows him driving straight into Larry at a high rate of speed. It's direct evidence and it corroborates the testimony. Purposely, I told you, intentional. Let's get to the final two elements of that slide where it indicates that he knew or had reasonable cause to know that Larry was a law enforcement officer. And that it was his specific purpose to kill a law enforcement officer. A lot of that testimony has been woven into the last few minutes of my speaking when I've talked to you about what purposely is. But, additionally, you are to consider and can consider the fact that he was wearing a reflective vest. He had a hat on. He had a uniform with noticeable badges on the side. You can take all of that into consideration. The fact that he was standing next to the pole. The fact that every other witness who testified, who looked in that area, immediately noticed and saw an officer directing traffic on that traffic island. The defendant drove toward Larry Henderson, a law enforcement officer, with the specific intent to kill him. Because there's no other logical explanation. The direction he traveled. The fact that Larry was alone on that island when moments before other pedestrians had been there. The car's data shows the steering staying on path. It shows the left turn at 69 degrees. Larry's broken leg shows the point of impact. There's impact marked on the cars. There's the sheared tire, purpose, intent. The descendant had the specific intent to kill Larry Henderson because he was a law enforcement officer. The vest was a beacon. He saw the uniform. He reacted. Now, the state does not have to prove motive. I think we talked about that in voir dire. But the judge will tell you it is actually one of the circumstances that you can consider in deciding someone's purpose. Just over 24 hours before Deputy Henderson was killed, the defendant lost his son at the hands of a police officer. Whether that shooting was justified or not is not why we're here. It is not what you are here to do. But it's evidence. And you can consider it in deciding the defendant's state of mind. We don't have every step of his trip, but the video shows Deputy Henderson is the first and only officer who comes in to Rodney's sight line. Unconstructed, unaware, defenseless, and within reach. The defendant was described as agitated and distraught. An officer took the life of his son, and he decided to take the life of one of their brothers. That's logical. And motive is one of the circumstances that you can consider when deciding on purpose. So purposely, the manner, the means, the motive, and all the other facts and circumstances. So the first question I asked you, did he intend to do it? Yes. The second question, did he know Larry was a law enforcement officer? Yes. The work you do on count one is going to make the work on count two a lot easier. Count two is also aggravated murder. And I submit to you that the evidence has shown beyond a reasonable doubt that on May 2nd of 2025 in Hamilton County, Ohio, the defendant, Rodney Hinton, purposely caused the death of Deputy Larry Henderson, a law enforcement officer, whom the defendant knew or had a reasonable cause to know, was a law enforcement officer, when Deputy Henderson at the time was engaged in his duties. You'll know that many of these elements are the same as the very first count that you considered. It's the seventh one that's different now. Because here you're going to decide whether it was his specific purpose to kill Larry while he was engaged in his duties. So in count one, you decide whether it was a specific purpose to kill a law enforcement officer. And in here, we're looking at whether or not he was engaged in his duties at the time he was killed. And I submit to you that the answer is absolutely yes. And it gets even easier. The state and the defense stipulate it, and you'll have these stipulations with you in the jury room, that Larry Henderson was a law enforcement officer. And we also stipulated that he was engaged in his duties as a law enforcement officer that day. So the work you do on count one will inform the work you do on count two. Now, the judge is going to tell you about a lesser included offense, reckless homicide. So I want to tell you where this fits into the analysis. If you find the defendant guilty on both counts of aggravated murder, you then move on to consider the affirmative offense, not guilty by reason of insanity. You do not need to consider the lesser included offense of reckless homicide. But if your verdict on the aggravated murder charges is not guilty, or you can't reach a unanimous verdict on aggravated murder, then and only then you're going to go to the lesser included offense of reckless homicide. Now, the judge will tell you, you must make your decision on the charged offense of aggravated murder, uninfluenced by the power to find a lesser offense. So the fact that this is on the table should not influence the work you're going to do on count one and count two. You only get here if you cannot reach a unanimous verdict on count one or two, or if you reach a not guilty verdict. Remember the baking competition that we talked about when we started this just over two weeks ago? You might love apple pie. Pecan might never have been your thing. But the rules don't ask which pie you'd order for yourself. They ask you to judge on the criteria that has been set out before you. Reckless homicide is on the table. It might be your pecan pie and you're an apple lover. It might be your apple pie and you're a pecan lover. It might even look like the easier choice, but that is not how you're going to judge this. You judge the aggravated murder counts on their own criteria first. The elements and the evidence, did we prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant purposely and intentionally killed Larry Henderson, a law enforcement officer? If we do, if we do, the lesser included doesn't even get a taste, you move on to the affirmative defense. The judge is going to tell you one more thing, that this charge of reckless homicide is not there to relieve you from the performance of an unpleasant duty. This is an unpleasant duty. I know that. But it's your duty. And you took an oath. And the evidence tells you how to perform it. But the state would be remiss if we didn't talk to you about reckless homicide because it's on the table. So before you can find the defendant guilty of reckless homicide, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that on May 2nd, in Hamilton County, Ohio, the defendant recklessly caused the death of Deputy Larry Henderson. Look at what stays the same. The date, the place, the person causing the death of Larry Henderson. That's not disputed. The only thing that changes is one word. Recklessly. Recklessly instead of purposely. That's the whole difference between these two charges. And that's why the evidence of purpose that we've just talked about, that you have, matters so much. A person acts recklessly when with heedless indifference to the consequences, he disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that his conduct is likely to cause a certain result. Reckless means ignoring a risk. Keep that word in mind. Disregard. And the judge will tell you what a substantial risk is. It has to be a strong possibility that the result will occur. Driving at 43.97 miles per hour into a pole where a uniformed deputy is standing beside it, because that's the theory that gets us to reckless, isn't a risk ignored. Death wasn't a possibility. It was the point. It was the point. [00:33:36] Speaker ?: It was the point. It was the point. [00:33:36] Speaker 2: So let's talk about what separates reckless homicide from aggravated murder. The judge is going to tell you that reckless homicide is distinguished by the absence or failure to prove that the death was caused purposely. Purposely means it was his specific intention to cause death. That's what we've been talking about this morning. Recklessly means that he, with a heedless indifference to consequences, acted disregarding that substantial and unjustifiable risk. Purpose versus risk. When the evidence shows a deliberate act aimed at a fatal outcome, that's not disregarding a risk. Aiming a car directly at a person, steering into that person who's trying to get away, is a purposeful act to kill. Not a disregard of a risk. And you can't reach the lesser offense out of sympathy. We talked a lot about sympathy when we first started this process. It's not a sympathy verdict. Think of a driver who speeds through a crowded intersection, knowing there might be pedestrians out and about. That conduct could be considered reckless. But when a driver steers towards a person, on course, accelerating, turning into that person, that shows purpose and intent. The difference between creating a risk that someone might die and deliberately acting to cause someone's death are two different things. So why is reckless homicide on your verdict forms? I think that's a fair question. During trial, you heard Monique and Markita talk about the fact that they were concerned about the mental state of the defendant. They weren't certain if he might harm himself. Hence the reason they spent the morning with him. They took him back to Monique's apartment. But you also heard from Patricia Pavlitz. She told you that the defendant hit the pole and bounced into the officer. She was honest. She told you what she saw from one place in a split second. That was her visual interpretation. The defense has built on that. They have suggested he was aiming for the pole, not the officer. This was an attempt to commit suicide. And he was reckless in that regard and killed the officer in that reckless act. He did not have the specific, purposeful intent to kill a law enforcement officer. It's an interesting theory. But the law asks you to look at all the evidence. And all the evidence tells a different story. The defense has suggested it was a clear, bright day. And so Patricia Pavlitz would have had a clear view. It was a clear day. But a clear day does not slow down time. This whole thing happened in under five seconds. The impact itself, under one second. Tenths of a second. Specialist Flam told you the car hit the pole and Deputy Henderson almost simultaneously. So close together that the human eye could not perceive the difference. That wasn't just his opinion. That was based on math and science. It was objective. Every other driver who testified saw an officer in uniform. Larry, in uniform, standing next to the pole. I know it looks blurry. And you'll have a chance to slow this down and zoom in when you're back in the jury room. But you can see the figure and you can see the pole. They are one and the same, ladies and gentlemen. So what did Mrs. Pavlitz see? She saw that car strike the pole and rotate on its axis. To her, in less than a second, that looked like a bounce. It was her human perception. It wasn't a bounce off the pole into Larry. It was the impact, though. And then the car turning around the pole after it hit him. And you can see how it has rotated and landed. Remember Specialist Flam's testimony about axis and rotation. And Larry's broken leg tells you where the car hit him. Before that impact, the wheel had already turned 69 degrees to the left toward Larry. No bounce, no bounce, one impact into Deputy Larry Henderson. The car hit the pole at the front right, shearing off the tire. You can see closer to the center, you can see closer to the center, the hood, the indention, I think Flam called it smearing, where Deputy Henderson was. You can see where the traffic box landed on the hood of that car. If the intent was suicide, there was a clear, open, and obvious path to the pole. There was no reason to turn if he wanted to end his own life. He could have even turned right to center it on the driver's side. Instead, he waited for traffic to clear, self-preservation, you heard, and turned left away from the pole. Specialist Flam told you, this is not suicide. The pole did not move. The defendant moved away from the pole. And he walked away with a minor scrape on his forehead. And Larry, impossible to miss, and a neon reflective safety vest, his hat, sheriff badges on his sleeves, standing at that pole, holding a plunger, connected to it. Deputy Nelson will tell you he was 200 feet away, and he could see Larry's yellow traffic vest. Pull or Larry, one target, simultaneous, he could not be missed. Look at what happened before the defendant drove there that day. Monique, his cousin, told you she and Rodney are close. She has training in suicide prevention. She's QPR certified. She works for One in Five, a nonprofit focused on suicide prevention and support. And she was with Rodney in the hours before he killed Larry. She told you that he had time to rest, to process, that she took him to Finley to ground him. He was goal-directed. He mentioned he wanted to go home to his wife and kids. His thoughts and the way he presented were appropriate. They gave him his keys. He drove himself. Yes. Were they worried? Absolutely. As they should have been. This is their family. He just went through a traumatic experience. But remember, that's their lens. That is not Rodney's state of mind. They're telling you how they were perceiving things. And if you remember, Monique said that he said, tell their kids that he loved them and he loved us. Now, you could look at that as they did through their lens as maybe it's a goodbye. But you could also look at it as an appropriate response to someone who's just lost their own child. Tell your kids you love them. Hug them. They're here. They're present. Life is precious. It can be gone in an instant, like it was for Larry. When he came out of the bedroom rested and said, I'm ready to go home, cuz, Monique told you that in that moment, she no longer had that immediate concern that he was going to harm himself. She took him back to his car. Yes, they followed him. They wanted to still be with him. But she did not have that immediate concern. Yes, she described him as agitated. But remember, she followed that up with inching forward in traffic. Here it is. That's agitation, ladies and gentlemen. He doesn't run the light. He doesn't hit anyone. And there's a reasonable explanation for the agitation. We've all done it. He notices his lane is about to end. He has to get out ahead of traffic to get over into the clear lane of travel. He wasn't aiming at himself. He was aiming at Deputy Henderson. This is not reckless homicide. You will reach a verdict of guilty, unconfident, after you review all of this evidence, on the counts one and two of aggravated murder, and not even need to consider reckless homicide. Now, there are three more counts in the indictment. Counts three, four, and five are felonious assault, felonious assault, and murder. I'm going to talk to you about the felonious assault first, and then we'll talk about murder, because I think going out of order will make it a little easier. So, felonious assault says he knowingly caused serious physical harm to Deputy Henderson. And then there's a special finding on that verdict form that Larry was a peace officer at the time. Counts three, four, and five ask a different question than counts one and two. It's not purposely. The mental state now that we're looking at is knowingly. It's a different mental state, hence the different charges. So, was he acting knowingly? Was he, regardless of the purpose, aware that his conduct would probably cause a certain result? A man who accelerates a car at a person standing in the roadway knows what will probably happen. But you're going to determine this the same way that you determined purposely and have looked at all the other evidence. You're going to use your reasoning and common sense. You're going to look at all the surrounding facts and circumstances. Because we cannot get into his mind, as we've talked about. You're going to use things like understanding that he waited for the traffic to clear. He accelerated. He steered towards the deputy. This is a man who was aware of what would probably happen. Serious physical harm. There's no more serious harm than death. So, I submit to you that the state has shown felonious assault, knowingly caused serious physical harm. Which is murder when that person dies as a result of the felonious assault. So, we talked about felonious assault, felony murder. We'll just say murder on your indictment form. If a person commits felonious assault, and the victim dies as a result of that, it's felony murder. It's just that simple. It's what we call like a strict liability offense. You've committed felonious assault. As a result of that, the person dies. You're guilty of felony murder. And then there's another count of felonious assault. This count of felonious assault is different from the first count, because the first one said serious physical harm, if you remember. This said physical harm with a deadly weapon. That's the difference. If you find serious physical harm, physical harm is less than serious physical harm. You've found physical harm. We've already talked about the deadly weapon, the car, in counts one and two, regarding purpose. So, as you get to counts three, four, and five, if you put in the work in the front end, these should come a lot easier to you. In the end, the state has to prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt. It does not mean beyond all doubt. Everything related to human affairs has some doubt. The question is, are you firmly convinced? Use your reason and common sense. It's a high burden, but it is not an impossible burden. We believe that if you look at all of the evidence, the testimonial evidence that you heard, the direct evidence, the circumstantial evidence, it shows the defendant acted purposely and knowingly to specifically kill Larry Henderson because he was a police officer engaging in his duties as a police officer directing traffic on that day. So, where do we go now? This is how this verdict path is going to go. You're going to consider, on counts one and two, the offenses of aggravated murder. If you do not agree on a verdict or you come to a conclusion of not guilty, you're going to consider the lesser offense of reckless homicide. Okay? From there, guilty on aggravated murder, or let's say you're guilty on the reckless, then you're going to come to step two, which is the affirmative offense of not guilty by reason of insanity. If you get to not guilty, you stop. You stop. But if you get to guilty, then you have to now go and consider whether or not the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity. And after weighing all of that, if you determine that no, he was not, he did know what he was doing, he was not guilty by reason of insanity, then you keep your guilty verdicts on the underlying charges. If you find that he was NGRI, then you'll have a verdict for NGRI. I know. It doesn't sound very straightforward, does it? I think it'll be clearer after the judge reads the instructions, but the reality of the if is, you'll only get to step two if you find the defendant guilty on one of the underlying offenses. And here it is for murder and felonious assault. And this is separated out intentionally, because reckless homicide is not a lesser included to the murder and felonious assault charges. You're only going to consider that on counts one and two. So on counts three, four, and five, not guilty, stop. Guilty? Then you must move to the affirmative defense of not guilty by reason of insanity. So let's talk about not guilty by reason of insanity in the second part of this trial. I'm certain you guys can say this in your sleep by now, but I'm going to say it for the record. To show that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity, the defendant must prove by the greater weight of the evidence that at the time of the offense, he did not know, as a result of a severe mental disease or defect, the wrongfulness of his action. This brings us to the third question I asked. Did he know it was wrong? So let's talk about that. It is a two-pronged test. First prong, a severe mental disease or defect. And it was the result of that that he did not know the wrongfulness of his act. The burden is on the defense. They have the burden. When we went through jury selection, we talked about that this case had two different burdens, two different questions. And you promised that you could all keep that straight. So in this particular portion of the trial, the burden now shifts to the defense. And they must show and establish by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant was not guilty by reason of insanity. If the evidence is equally balanced or you're unsure, they have not met their burden. Now, length of insanity. The judge is going to tell you that insanity can be of short or long duration. Either way, you would have to find the defendant had a severe mental disease and that the disease caused him not to know the wrongfulness of his actions. The test doesn't change with the length of the mental disease. And that's important for you to remember. And Dr. Atkins and Dr. O'Donnell told you it's a narrow, strict standard in Ohio. In that moment, did he know the act was legally wrong? I think we have a, I think we have a, the second prong is the one that's in dispute. Whether as a direct result of a severe mental disease, the defendant knew the wrongfulness of his actions. And that means legal wrongfulness. Hold on one second, guys. Hold on one second, guys. All right. I'm just going to have to go with the, um, issue with my tech here. Give me one second. [00:52:09] Speaker ?: Okay. [00:52:14] Speaker 2: So how is knowledge of wrongfulness determined? First, mental evaluations. Qualified psychologists testified in this case. They examined the defendant's mental status at the time of the offense. And second, you. You're the fact finders. You will make the ultimate decision. The experts are just here to help you. You are going to evaluate the expert testimony, along with the surrounding facts and circumstances. You're going to look at the defendant's statements, his actions before, during, and after the crime. And you're going to examine the witness testimony. And you will decide, ultimately, whether he truly lacked this knowledge. A forensic evaluation for an insanity defense is not a clinical assessment. You heard the testimony that its purpose isn't to diagnose and treat. It's to reconstruct the defendant's mental state at a specific point in the past. And to decide whether he meets that legal threshold. Therefore, we need forensic evaluators. It's not something that we can do on our own. And these forensic evaluators testified, they opined, they told you how they came to their conclusions. But only two of them actually told you how they determined that the defendant did not know the wrongfulness of his actions on May 2nd. You are going to use all the things that we've talked about as far as evaluating evidence, but these are experts. So you can also consider their skill, their experience, their knowledge, their familiarity with the facts of the case. So let's look at that. Let's look at experience. Dr. Atkins, she's been licensed since 2009. She's done between 1,500 and 2,000 NGRI evaluations. She testifies two to three times a month. Dr. O'Donnell, she's been appointed by the court. She's not working for either side. 31 years in forensic psychology. 550 NGRI evaluations. She's testified 35 times on that in Ohio. Dr. Espinola, four years of forensic work. Three NGRI evaluations. This is the first time she's ever testified. She's a clinician. 1,500 to 2,000. About 553. The defense has argued that Dr. Espinola had more information, more interviews, more tests. But the testimony shows you that more is not the test. That kind of information is what a clinical evaluation gathers. And this is a forensic evaluation. Reconstructing what the defendant knew at the time of the offense. Now, Dr. Atkins told you she didn't need to speak to others because she spoke to Anna, the defendant's wife. Who was with him in the weeks leading up to this. She broke those weeks down in great detail. And there was no evidence that he was acutely symptomatic. The jail records right after that she looked at showed grief. Not psychosis. His wife to Dr. Atkins reported no concerns. And the defendant himself said he came at this from losing his son and watching that video. Dr. O'Donnell agreed that it's important to get as much data as possible. But she disagreed it was critical to talk to the cousin or the aunt. She said those interviews would have been nice. But they would not have changed her conclusion. If you remember, she said she looked at a big basket of things. How he operated the car. His professional driving record. His education. His ability over a lifetime to follow the laws of our society. His wife's account. The videos. She looked at specialist Flam's report. And Dr. Espinola. What she held most important was the defendant's own self-report. Interviews with his family. And clinical tests. She did not look at that crash report. And she did not see the videos of his driving. The question isn't how many people were talked to. Remember what we talked about. Quality over quantity. It's what the defendant knew. On May 2nd. Now let's look at what changed between Dr. Espinola's April and September reports. She told you on the stand where her April opinion came from. It came from Rodney's self-report. And collateral information from his family. And for the moment itself. The moment of the event. The moment that we're here about. She did not review the crash report or the videos. And even then her opinion only stated suggests symptoms that appear to have interfered. Every step is hedged. In September the facts didn't change when she gave a second report. Same interviews, same tests, no new information, no new interviews of the defendant. The only thing that changed were her words. She adopted the statute's words, did not know wrongfulness. And the first time she mentioned specific symptoms. Still, no analysis. I urge you to look at the last two to three pages of each of these experts' reports. Look at their analysis and how they reached their conclusion. Dr. Espinola says, not capable of recognizing, which when pressed on the stand, she said she meant understanding. Neither is the test in the state of Ohio. She also referenced impaired his ability to know. That's not the question either. The question is whether he knew wrongfulness of his actions at that moment. Knew. Her own words don't say that he didn't know. The test she didn't run, malingering, there are well-accepted psychological tests that don't rely on the defendant's own self-report. And she did not use them. Her own tests, the PAI, flagged unusual response patterns. Her own report says she reviewed his answers for the possibility of malingering. Her own data raised a red flag about whether his reported symptoms could be trusted. Those tests are built on that question. And she gave none of them. She relied on his own self-report, which she acknowledged best practices says one should not do. When a test raises that flag, the next step is to check it. And that step was not taken. Now, Dr. O'Donnell and Dr. Atkins also did not note malingering or run any tests. But listen to the testimony. Recall the testimony. They interviewed him prior. Dr. O'Donnell said her first interview was in the fall of 2025. She told you that if by a fourth interview he was providing a substantially different story that had dramatically changed a different account than the one she had initially been given, she would have done malingering testing. They didn't need to do malingering testing because he was forthcoming with them. So don't be confused that just because they didn't see malingering, it doesn't mean it was there. It was there. A test flagged it. Follow-up wasn't taken. Now, three experts, three sanity opinions. You heard from all of them. Dr. Atkins told you he did have intact knowledge of wrongfulness. At the time, his mental state was in an acute state of trauma and bereavement. It was reality-based. Dr. O'Donnell, the defendant, knew the wrongfulness of the acts charged. She found him distraught and depressed. And he told her he had no psychosis and no hallucinations. And Dr. Espinola, in one part of her report, says his condition impaired his ability to know the wrongfulness. Two pages later, he did not know. Those are not the same thing. And only one of them is the test in our state. Two experts said he knew it was wrong. One expert said he didn't. And then she said it even two different ways. You heard a lot about factors that should be taken into consideration to help make a determination of whether someone knows what they were doing was wrong. Forensic evaluators told you they look at behaviors, they look at history, they look at medical background. And despite what the defense has argued, there is no single test. There's no pass-fail. There are no check marks for determining whether someone knows. At the time of the offense, the wrongfulness of their actions. Dr. O'Donnell said, you have to ask whether a particular set of circumstances can be explained some other way. Dr. Atkins told you, sure, these are all things someone should consider. But they're not automatic. You have to look at the whole picture. You look at all of the history, all of the statements, all of the surrounding facts and circumstances. The defense has offered you several theories through the course of this part of the trial. The defendant was unmedicated, that he dissociated, he blacked out, he was psychotic, he was hallucinating, he was suicidal. You've heard them all. Let's take them one at a time. And for each one, ask the only question that matters, the question you have to answer. Even if you accepted any of these theories, did he know his actions were wrong? Medicated or unmedicated? It depends on who you ask and when. Unmedicated, he may have been more symptomatic, but no one noted anything about his behavior that was acute or sent off warning signals to them. And it still doesn't change the ultimate question. Did he know it was wrong? A blackout. Dissociation. A blackout is first mentioned, you'll notice, when you look at the reports in Dr. Espinola's report, 10 months after the fact. And not remembering afterward is not the same as knowing at the time of the offense. Dissociation, you were told, is an emotional state of not being present. Emotionally not being present. Being overwhelmed by grief is not the same as being unaware of what you are doing. The car's own data shows an active driver, steady steering, hard turns. This is someone who is present and in control. And not because he's driving on autopilot. That hard turn tracking a person is not autopilot. And both claims come from the same place. The defendant's own account and his account has changed over time. Still, did he know it was wrong? Dr. Espinola put it that he lost awareness. His body was there, but his mind was elsewhere. The claimed blackout. On page 28 of her report, she says Rodney was experiencing dissociative symptoms. She defines that as largely unconscious, a defensive change in awareness. And she says he showed symptoms of dissociation, lack of self-awareness, lack of self-control that impaired his ability to know right from wrong. But if you'll remember, I pressed her on that. I pressed her on his dissociation and that it didn't fit the way he was driving. And she responded, and I quote, "I wanted to clarify, too, at no point in the reports, that the dissociative flashback was what, you know, what caused this." And so I asked a follow-up, "Are you saying that dissociation isn't part of your analysis, for that he knew what he was doing was wrong at that moment?" And she agreed, and she agreed we could take it off the list, so we don't even need to talk further about this. I got a little ahead of myself back there. Instead, she indicated psychosis is what caused him not to be able to understand right from wrong. So let's talk about that. What is psychosis? You've heard a lot about it. You could probably all have a minor in psychology by the time you're done with this case. The only voice the defense can point to that shows psychosis and is the basis for the psychosis conclusion of Dr. Espinola's report is the voice that the defendant himself reports 10 months after the fact to Espinola, his pastor's voice. When he looked over to the passenger seat and Dr. Espinola said, "That voice means he was disconnected from reality." [01:06:22] Speaker ?: There was no further explanation. [01:06:22] Speaker 2: Did the voice tell him to kill himself? Did the voice tell him to kill Larry? Was it a prayer? Was it just God's presence? We don't know. But let's look at the evaluation. Let's look at the evaluation. Once after the fact. To Espinola, his pastor's voice. When he looked over to the passenger seat. And Dr. Espinola said, "That voice means he was disconnected from reality." There was no further explanation. Did the voice tell him to kill himself? Did the voice tell him to kill Larry? Did the voice tell him to kill Larry? Was it a prayer? Was it just God's presence? We don't know. But let's look at the evaluators that talked to the defendant prior to Espinola. And what they wrote in their reports about a voice. And when you're looking at this, you should ask yourself one question. What did the defendant say? When did he say it? The story didn't just add detail over time. It changed dramatically. From a sound outside the car. To a voice inside an empty car. It only changed in one direction. Toward insanity. It only changed after weeks. And it only changed in the fourth evaluation. Ten months later. Dr. Espinola didn't mention that change anywhere in her report. No one around him reported him acting in a bizarre way. Hallucinating. I think it's interesting to note that in the court sequence video, as you watch it, when he gets into his car in the city, he rolls down his windows. You can see that on the driver's side. And after he backs out and starts to drive away, passenger windows are down. And the scene photos? Windows are still down in the same position they were when he left CIS. And Specialist Flam told you his analysis of the window wells, those windows were down. And why is that important? Because you also heard from the witnesses who told you there was a lot of heavy pedestrian traffic. There were other drivers. It was crowded. It was crowded. It was a nice day. Even some of the witnesses had their windows down. That is reason and common sense. A voice outside the car due to the circumstances and facts surrounding that day in Clifton. Not a pastor who appeared 10 months after the fact. And if he had a psychotic break, it would have shown. You would have evidence of it. You do not. Dr. Atkins and Dr. O'Donnell told you ER records would have noted outward signs of psychosis. The jail intake records would have noted psychosis. With schizoaffective disorder and bipolar disorder, psychotic symptoms don't just resolve on their own, you were told. They take medication and treatment. And a brief psychotic episode is not what happened here. Brief psychotic disorder. In the DSM. We heard about that. can't be diagnosed when the symptoms are better explained by another disorder such as schizoaffective disorder and bipolar disorder. And the defendant has a history of both. The explanation the defense needs is the one his own history rules out. There is more evidence that the defendant was not acutely psychotic. That he was not symptomatic at the moment in time in Clifton. Remember what they told you. They look at his behavior in the weeks leading up to this incident. He was working. He was driving to and from Columbus. He had a CDL. He was making his own doctor's appointments. He drove himself to CIS. Additionally, you have his family's testimony. He had a previous psychotic episode. No one's denying that in 2023. But note the difference between the episode in 2023 and the claimed episode in 2025. One, he was actually in a crisis. And it looked completely different. Once again, look at the beginning of the CIS camera sequence video when you're in there reviewing all the evidence. It supports what Markita and Monique told you and what Dr. O'Donnell and Dr. Atkins found. This is a man who hugs his family goodbye. Look at those hugs. He holds them. He holds the door for his aunt like a gentleman. You'll note that he remembers to get his water. He gets into his car and he rolls down the windows, which is appropriate for the weather that day. It was a nice day. And he navigates out of that parking lot smoothly and precisely. Remember how Dr. O'Donnell described psychosis, mumbling to oneself, hearing voices, a flat facial expression, staring intently, tension, protective. That's not tension. Those hugs aren't tension. Trying to protect yourself in a terrible state of hygiene, that's not a terrible state of hygiene. He even told multiple doctors that he believes he showered that morning. Does that match anything Markita and Monique saw? Look at the defendant's own account. His own words. What did he tell the evaluators? To Dr. Atkins on February 4th. I came to a light and heard somebody say something in the car next to me because the window was down. And I looked over. Then I looked back. And I seen that officer. And that is when I drove the car over in his direction and hit the officer. And when Dr. Atkins asked follow-up questions, I had to turn a little bit to hit him. Did you hit the brakes? I don't think so. I hit the pole. When you woke up, did you know what you had done? After the fact, yes. Two days later, he recalled the whole drive to Dr. O'Donnell. Downtown. Near Finley Market. Up the hill towards Clifton. Quiet. Just driving. He saw a police officer directing traffic and said, I was hurting. It was my first son. He admitted he hit the gas toward the officer. He told her he hadn't been driving erratically until the crash. And his descriptions were free of bizarre beliefs or delusions. That is what remembering looks like. He knew where he was, what he saw, what he did. And he also knew why he did it. I was hurting. That was my first son. Now, Dr. Espinola, nearly 10 hours of interviews. And how much of her account is about the moment he drove into Larry Henderson? Three sentences. A light, his pastor's voice, and looking over at the passenger seat. And then he blacked out and he woke up in an ambulance. Two evaluators walked him through the day. The defense wrote three sentences. And later acknowledged that blacking out and being in psychosis don't fit together. And even if you accept psychosis as a plausible explanation, Dr. O'Donnell told you, it doesn't answer the question. He still knows how to drive. He knows the laws. He knows the rules. He knows the rules and he can follow them. That is knowledge of wrongfulness. That's what she said to you. He saw a police officer directing traffic. He saw the uniform. We've already talked about suicide in the first half of this case. But these are two different burdens, two different baskets, if you will, that you are considering. So you're going to hear about suicide again as being a cause for why he did what he did and why he should be found not guilty by reason of insanity. Look at what every report says about suicide, though, and what the experts concluded in their reports. Three days after the incident in the jail, he denied suicidal thoughts. He was on suicide watch at the jail, you were told, due to the nature of the offense. He told Dr. Atkins that he had no suicidal thoughts in the weeks leading up to this incident. Dr. O'Donnell, the court's evaluator, wrote that he told her he was thinking about it, not planning about it, didn't have ideas of how he was going to move forward with it, just thinking about it. But she also told you why it doesn't explain what he did. There were many more viable opportunities to commit a self-harming act without endangering anyone else, particularly a law enforcement officer. You'll find that in her report. And Dr. Espinola, she told us that in May he may have been suicidal. By her September report, it changed. May became was suicidal. And I have to take you back to that question, though. Suicidal or not, it's not the test. Did they show, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he did not know that his actions were wrong? Even if you buy in to any one of these theories. Every one of them, I submit to you as a distraction. Unmedicated, psychotic, dissociated, suicidal, delusional. Theory after theory after theory. And none of them fits the evidence. Don't let the number of theories distract you. A break from reality. A voice. A claimed blackout. Then he heads for the pole to kill himself. Or was he heading for the pole because the pastor told him to head to the pole to kill himself. And in that one moment when his severe mental disease was so acute, at the moment that only lasted as long as it took him to move from the center lane to the pole, he just happened to hit and kill a law enforcement officer. Use your common sense. Ask, what are the chances? The most dramatic descriptions of what happened that day are in Dr. Espinola's report from family members. Ten months after this happened. They love them. Love him. I don't fault them for that. But you're entitled to weigh that when you're looking at all of the evidence. Who said what? When did they say it? Why did they say it? Listen to the people who love him, who were with him. Note what they told you about that day and how he was talking. That he was quiet and distraught, devastated, calm. But then his sister and dad, he was vacant. He was looking through me. I'm not going to tell you that Rodney Sr. or Kiara lied to you. They love him. They hired an expert to help them. Him. Anybody would understand that. But the judge will tell you you can consider the interest in the outcome. Their interest in the outcome. But even taking what they say at face value, that's what grief looks like. The morning after you watched a video where your son was shot and killed. Remember who Rodney Sr. is. He knows what his son looked like in 2023. He was the one who took him to the hospital at that point in time. And while we didn't hear from Anna, you heard what Anna said through her statements that came in in the reports from her conversations with the doctors. And she told you that he left the house that day separately. He drove himself. And that she left and he went with his aunt and cousin. And she said, you go with him. I'll see you later at the house. His sister, his father, his wife. All of them. They know him. And not one of them was so acutely concerned that they felt the need to stay. To take him to the hospital. To get additional help. Every description you heard is grief and shock. That's what they are. Not one of them is a voice. Not a delusion. Not psychosis. And what did the experts tell us about grief? Dr. O'Donnell told you the level of grief he was experiencing was reality based. It was appropriate for the circumstances. Emotional grief does not equal psychosis. Dr. O'Donnell told you the same thing. An emotional daze. Anger. Guilt. Those are all behaviors associated with bereavement. They're reality based. And Dr. Atkins put it plainly. Poor judgment associated with emotional distress does not negate knowledge of wrongfulness. He was grieving. He was angry. He made a terrible choice. And he knew it was wrong. Most significantly, what happened on May 2nd is not an isolated incident. You heard that he has a history of reacting violently when it comes to Ryan. That is his trigger. It is real. And it's not new. And you heard what he did afterwards on those earlier occasions that led to criminal charges. He accepted responsibility. He completed treatment. Counseling. Probation is recommended. There were no claims of incompetency. No claims of NGRI. Even though two of the incidents happened in the same timeframe of the last psychotic episode in 2023. This is a man who understood that his conduct was wrong. And did what was required of him back then, previously, to answer for it. His severe mental disease may well be tied to this trigger. It may cause him to be impulsive. Make poor decisions. And his acute grief and emotional stress that he was feeling that day may have made it worse. But impulsive is not insane. He made a choice knowing it was wrong. Angry. Grieving. Impulsive. Ohio law says plainly, the inability to control one's behavior in irresistible impulse is not a legal defense. Even if a severe mental disease completely stripped a person of their ability to stop themselves from acting. He is still legally sane if he knew the act was wrong. It is that narrow. It is that strict. The judge is going to tell you what doesn't count. Motive. Impulse. Emotional grief. Rage at the loss of your first born child. Those are not reasons for not guilty by reason of insanity. In Ohio, the question is not whether he could control himself. It's whether he knew. And grief does not excuse taking another life. Why versus wrongfulness. There's a difference. We've heard a lot of evidence of why he acted. None of it tells you he didn't know it was wrong. In fact, the why actually points the other way. We already talked about motive. An officer taking his oldest son. The trigger. He decided to take one of theirs. That is not a delusion disconnected from reality. That is a motive that makes terrible human sense. And a man acting on that motive knows exactly what he is doing. And that it's wrong. Every one of his faculties was working that day. Nothing showed acute symptoms of his mental disease. So you have to ask yourself. Which explanation makes sense? We're back to common sense. Reason and common sense. The logical explanation. A police officer killed his son. The next day. He's emotionally stressed. He's grieving. He's sad. He sees an officer. And he drives his car into him. Reacting. The way he has done in his past. When he can't be there for Ryan. Or the illogical one. That in less than a minute. He happened to have a very brief psychotic episode. Deciding in that moment to kill himself. And by chance hits a uniformed officer standing in his path. And afterwards remembers what happens. One explanation fits every piece of evidence. The other one needs coincidence. After coincidence. After coincidence. This is not someone crippled by mental illness. Do not be distracted by the diagnosis. Or the many and changing defense theories. Even if you accept any of the defense theories. You still must find. And understand. That he knew. What he was doing. Was wrong. The defendant made a decision that day. It may have been a bad one. Because he was grieving and distraught. But it was a decision. All the same. And now he needs to face the consequences. Of that decision. And you need to hold him accountable. For the choices he made. Nobody in this courtroom. Is asking you to feel nothing about Rodney Hinton. A father's grief is real. But you promised at the start. You would keep that grief. Separate from the question in front of you. Did Rodney Hinton know it was wrong? To drive his car into Larry Henderson. A man who had nothing to do. With what happened to Ryan. A man standing in the road that day. Doing his duty. Helping families. Helping students. That neon safety vest. Was a beacon. It didn't hide who Larry was. It announced. Who he was. The defendant saw it. And he drove straight toward it. The defense had the burden. To prove to you. That he is not guilty. By reason of insanity. They didn't tip the scale. Yes. He has a severe mental disease. Three questions. Did he intend to do it? Yes. Did he know Larry was law enforcement? Yes. Did he know it was wrong? Yes. The state has proven every element of the charges in the indictment. Beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense has not proven not guilty by reason of insanity. The verdict is guilty. On all five counts as charged. No lesser included. The defense has been a good one. [01:27:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:27:42] Speaker 2: The defense has been a good one. [01:27:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:27:48] Speaker 1: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:27:53] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:27:57] Speaker 1: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:28:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:28:36] Speaker 1: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:28:38] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:28:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:31:33] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:31:36] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:31:38] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:31:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:31:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:31:58] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:31:59] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:32:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:32:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:32:37] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:32:38] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:33:48] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:33:49] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:34:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:34:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:34:49] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:34:51] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:34:52] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:34:55] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:35:14] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:35:17] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:35:19] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:35:21] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:35:25] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:35:26] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. [01:35:35] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:35:36] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:10] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:36:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:25] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:36:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:44] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:36:45] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:36:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:37:36] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:37:37] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:37:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:37:43] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:38:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:39:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:39:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:39:17] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:39:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:39:22] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:39:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:39:39] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:18] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:42:22] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:25] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:42:44] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:42:53] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:43:07] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:43:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:43:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:43:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:43:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:43:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:44:08] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:44:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:44:20] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:44:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:44:51] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:44:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:05] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:07] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:09] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:14] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:45:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:25] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:46:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:45] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:46:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:47:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:47:20] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:47:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:47:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:47:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:48:14] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:48:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:48:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:48:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [01:49:05] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:49:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:11] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:49:12] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:49:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:49:54] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:50:05] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:50:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:50:09] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:50:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:50:37] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:50:38] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:50:44] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:50:45] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:51:09] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:51:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [01:51:11] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:51:18] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:51:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:51:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:05] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:52:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:11] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:52:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:52:14] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:50] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:52:53] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:08] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:12] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:53:25] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:45] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:47] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:50] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:53:51] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:53:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:53:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:54:20] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:54:22] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:54:36] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:54:37] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:54:46] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:54:47] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:54:50] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:54:51] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:55:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:55:15] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:55:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:55:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:56:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:18] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:20] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:47] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:56:48] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:56:55] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:10] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:57:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:57:25] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:31] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:54] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:57:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:58:36] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:58:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:58:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:58:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:59:04] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:59:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:59:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:59:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:59:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:59:22] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [01:59:47] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [01:59:48] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:00:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:00:20] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:00:46] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:00:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:00:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:00:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:19] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:25] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:01:59] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:17] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:02:18] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:02:23] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:28] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:02:44] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:14] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:18] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:33] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:03:34] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:03:45] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:03:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:04:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:19] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:04:27] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:48] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:04:48] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:04:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:05:00] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:05:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:05:15] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:05:45] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:05:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:05:56] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:05:57] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:00] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:06:01] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:27] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:06:28] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:30] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:48] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:50] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:06:53] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:55] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:06:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:07:18] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:07:20] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:07:53] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:07:54] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:18] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:08:19] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:44] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:50] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:08:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:09:02] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:09:33] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:09:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:10:03] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:10:04] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:10:53] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:10:54] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. [02:10:55] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:11:19] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:11:20] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:11:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:11:36] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:14] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:24] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:54] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:12:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:13:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:13:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:13:13] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:14:06] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:14:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:14:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:14:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:14:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:14:51] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:06] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:08] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:15:13] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:37] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:39] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:15:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:15:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:06] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:15] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:23] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:16:24] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:37] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:16:44] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:48] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:51] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:16:54] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:16:55] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:17:14] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:17:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:17:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:17:54] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:18:06] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:18:07] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:18:24] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:18:25] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:18:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:18:50] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:19:18] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:19:23] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:19:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:19:27] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:19:56] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:06] Speaker 5: The government has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:20:28] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:30] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:37] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:20:44] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:20:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:21:01] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:21:09] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:21:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:21:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:21:24] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:21:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:22:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:22:11] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:22:14] Speaker 1: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:22:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:23:10] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:23:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:23:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:23:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:23:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:23:50] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:24:45] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:24:48] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:24:49] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:24:50] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:24:58] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:29] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:25:51] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:25:52] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:26:22] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:26:23] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:26:54] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:28] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:30] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:27:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:46] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:27:47] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:27:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:27:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:28:19] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:28:21] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:28:23] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:28:24] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:28:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:28:50] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:13] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:29:14] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:18] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:27] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:43] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:54] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:29:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:30:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:30:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:30:44] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:30:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:30:52] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:30:54] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:31:28] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:31:29] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:31:58] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:31:59] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:32:10] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:32:15] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:32:17] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:32:18] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:32:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:32:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:32:58] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:19] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:21] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:33:22] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:32] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:33:33] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:33:43] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:33:59] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:34:57] Speaker 4: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:34:59] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:35:00] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:35:01] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:03] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:35:04] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:34] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:35:35] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:46] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:35:47] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:35:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:36:03] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:36:11] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:36:12] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:36:15] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:36:16] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:37:01] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:37:02] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:37:07] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:37:11] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:37:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:37:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:02] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:12] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:38:13] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:43] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:38:56] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:39:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:39:34] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:39:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:39:42] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:39:46] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:39:56] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:43:13] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:43:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:43:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:43:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:43:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:02] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:04] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:08] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:44:09] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:43] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:44:47] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:44:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:45:04] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:45:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:45:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:45:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:45:58] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:00] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:04] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:46:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:08] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:46:09] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:14] Speaker 1: The defense has been a good one. [02:46:15] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:26] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:28] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:41] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:46:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:46:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:46:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:47:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:47:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:47:43] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:47:44] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:48:08] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:48:10] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:48:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:48:42] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:49:17] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:49:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:49:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:49:28] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:49:40] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:49:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:49:47] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:49:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:09] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:12] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:17] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:50:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. [02:50:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:50:27] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:40] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:50:57] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:50:58] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:07] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:12] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:27] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. [02:51:28] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:38] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:41] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:46] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:51:56] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:52:03] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:52:05] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:52:16] Speaker ?: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. [02:52:26] Speaker 5: The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. The defense has been a good one. Yes. I'm familiar with that. So are you saying now that you can drive a car and navigate traffic and still be experiencing acute psychosis? Yeah. I've had many clients like that. This is the state's evidence. The state called Dr. O'Donnell as a witness. And that testimony from that witness substantiates Dr. Espinola's position that he was experiencing auditory hallucination psychosis on Martin Luther King at the time of the defense. And that's documented and confirmed by the literature and by Dr. O'Donnell's testimony. Her testimony changed from relying upon the fact that he was driving and saying he's not psychotic to saying he can be driving and be psychotic. This is the nature of the state's case. Got a 30 yard field goal. I kick the ball 40 yards. But as I kick it, I take the goal post and put on a video. And keep moving the ball. And I testify that based on schizoaffective disorder, history of mental illness, witnesses observation of Mr. Hinton at the time of the offense and her belief that he was hallucinating, that he was psychotic at the time of the offense, and he did not understand the wrongness of his conduct, and that a person that is psychotic, you know what you're doing. You know what you're doing. This is common sense of reason again. You know what you're doing, but you don't understand the wrongness of it because you think that what you're doing is just right and appropriate because you're psychotic. So it's out of touch and it's a disconnect from reality, but what you think you're doing is right, but in reality is wrong. That is classic ability to understand the state of Ohio. Textbook. Again, her opinion is consistent with psychology. It's based on accurate and true information and the evidence in this case. There is no demonstration that her opinion that Rodney did not know the wrongfulness of his conduct at the time of the offense. There's no evidence that this opinion was based on erroneous or wrong interpretation of psychology. That's why you should give her opinion more weight. So, what does a prosecution do based with that evidence? What have they done in the entire case? If I can't sustainably attack what you're saying and it hurts my case, I'm going to throw mud at you. The undermining capability. So, what did they do with Dr. Espinoza? Well, the first thing they said was, she's not board certified. She's not board certified in forensic psychology. They harped on him. Are you board certified? But I guess in preparation for the case somebody forgot to realize that Dr. O'Donnell's not board certified either. And the evidence was, as we know, you don't have to be board certified to be declared an expert in psychology and testify about not guilty by reasonable sanity. Dr. Espinola told you that, but then Dr. O'Donnell confirmed that. Why did I ask you that on process examination? Because I have to prove my case. Even though I don't have a burden to prove it. Now, if you have one, I'm not good with one. You know what I'm saying? I have to prove it. I just can't sit up here and argue. I've got to show you what comes from the witness statement. Then they said, "We can't find your license in the Texas database. We don't see if you got license." Why are we doing this? That's an attempt just to undermine you. What database are they looking at? Did they look at all of them? Did they look at the correct one? How does that prove that she can't get an opinion in the state of Ohio when Judge Lucas has told you she is an expert in forensic psychology? Why are we having these questions? Let's get to the substance of what she's saying. Because you don't like the substance. You don't like the message, so you're trying to destroy the messenger. That's not evidence. That's a feckless attempt to undermine an expert. Then, to further undermine her, what do you ask her? Are you getting paid? Are you getting paid? So the fact that she's getting paid means that she's not covered. [02:58:11] Speaker 4: Judge Lucas is getting paid. She's getting paid. I'm getting paid. James Bowen is getting paid. [02:58:18] Speaker 5: Ms. Burrell is getting paid. Mr. Beebe is getting paid. Now you guys are getting paid too. Not that much. You're getting paid. So the fact that she's getting paid. So the fact that she's getting paid. The suggestion that she's not credible for that, that's silly. Again, it's a microcosm of the state's case. When they can't refute the substance of the testimony for a mother. Then they said, well, isn't it true that you worked with Dr. O'Donnell? Or that she's supervisor training? Yeah, she trained her. Dr. O'Donnell's been on her for 31 years, and Dr. Espinola trained her. Does that mean that she's not an expert at birth psychology? No, not according to Judge Lewis, is it? So why are we taking up time asking these questions? The questions and implications are silly and do not change the fact that Dr. Espinola's opinion and all of the other evidence in this case, all of the other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola, by the way. The other evidence in this case constitutes proof by the partners of the evidence that Rodney did not understand the wrongness of his conduct at the time of the offense. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:31] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:33] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:35] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:36] Speaker 5: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:37] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:39] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:42] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:45] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [02:59:57] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:09] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:20] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:21] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:22] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:27] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:37] Speaker 1: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. [03:00:42] Speaker ?: The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. The other evidence is consistent with Dr. Espinola. Dr. Espinola. [03:06:07] Speaker 5: Dr. Espinola. Thank you, Judge Luvers. The questions and the implications of the prosecution are -- Silly may be a strong word. Not meaningful would be more appropriate and professional. And they do not change the fact that Dr. Espinola's opinion and all of the other evidence in this case constitutes proof by the ponders of the evidence that Rodney did not understand the wrongfulness of his conduct at the time of the offense. On the other hand, the opinions of the state's expert witnesses, Dr. Atkins and Dr. O'Donnell, they are erroneous and unreliable. Another dig is Dr. Espinola happened in closing argument when there is still a claim and an argument that she's a clinical psychologist and that she's not a forensic psychologist. Therefore, don't believe what she's saying. That's the claim by the prosecution. What did the judge tell you? What did the judge say? She's an expert of forensic psychology. Why are we still having this banter? This argument? Let's talk about Dr. Atkins. She only interviewed Rodney and his wife, Anna Booker. Those are the only two individuals that she interviewed for her opinion about whether or not he was not guilty by redundant sanity. You interviewed the wife who wasn't witty at the time of the offense and then you interviewed a mentally ill psychotic patient for his account of what happened at the time of the offense when the literature in psychology fundamentally shows that the narrative account of an offense by a psychotic person is inherently inconsistent because they're psychotic. And you know that from common sense and reason. If I'm psychotic and I'm out of touch with reality and then four, five, six months later I tell you what I was thinking, how reliable is that? And you ask me three or four or five times, it's naturally and inherently going to be inconsistent. That's the psychological literature. That's what Dr. O'Donnell agreed to. We're talking about Dr. Atkins. Critical collateral information, according to Dr. O'Donnell and Dr. Espinola, that she did not take into consideration when she formed her opinion. So that means her report and her opinion is based on incomplete information. Incomplete, very important information. And common sense tells you that that's very important and that's very critical. If this was your son here and your brother said that he was acting strange or had a glare consisting of psychosis, wouldn't you want the expert to know that before he'd give an opinion about whether or not he's not guilty by reason of insanity? Yes, you would. Now, the other thing that Dr. Atkins reported, Rodney said he was on medication but he didn't know, she didn't know whether or not he was confused about what kind of medication he was taking. Because there's no evidence of the exact medication that he was on. And if you look at the report, she says that, were you on medication? And he says, yeah, I think so. That's an unreliable attestation on whether or not you're taking the medication. And he's a psych patient. She had to admit that if you're not taking medication, psychotic symptoms are more likely to appear. Her report indicates that Rodney said he was feeling a lot of anger, frustration, and guilt. She concluded that this meant that he was angry at the police, not himself. So I asked her that. How can you make that conclusion? And she couldn't make that conclusion. He could be talking about himself. But she concluded that that meant that he was angry at the police. And that's not what the report says. That's her belief that it may or may not indicate that he was angry at the police. What else does the report say? She relied upon Rodney for information. But again, even her report, she says Rodney had minimal memory of the day of the offense. I don't remember. He says, I don't remember the details of that day. That's in her report. So you're saying that you're emphasizing a narrative from Mr. Hinton and reaching your conclusions. But even in your report, you're saying he's got minimal memory of the day of the offense. And he said, I don't remember the details of that day. But again, Rodney and Anna Booker, who wasn't there at the time of the offense, that's her primary information for her report about what Rodney was thinking at the time of the offense. What is her primary information? A mentally ill man that does not remember that day. All experts agree psychotic patients give inconsistent accounts of events. Her report is not reliable. What else does her report say? [03:11:49] Speaker ?: Rodney made no threats to harm anyone. [03:11:50] Speaker 5: Just driving around. Then he said, we saw the police officer. What did Rodney say? Did he say something indicating that he intended to kill Debbie Henderson? Or did he say something consistent with psychosis at the time of the event? Look at her report. [03:12:09] Speaker ?: Not her conclusions necessarily. [03:12:09] Speaker 5: Look at the report. The law says that the assumed facts that the expert takes into consideration, it is up to you as to whether or not they're true. Not up to the expert. An expert testimony is only utilized to assist you as a prior fact. The experts are not God and that includes specialist plan. You are. When it comes to this process, you are a prior fact that determines what happened. Not specialist plan. Not Dr. Espinosa. Dr. Espinosa. Not Dr. Espinosa. Not Dr. Espinosa. Dr. O'Connor. You are the supreme trials of fact. So what did he say when she asked him about seeing a police officer? He says, I can't say my thoughts for real. I was still emotional. I was in emotional days. That sounds like psychosis. And that is what he is saying and that's the information that she had. That's consistent with psychosis. She just disregarded it. She disregarded it. Her report indicates that he also said, I heard somebody say something to me. I looked over and saw an officer. So if he heard somebody say, that's a hallucination. I heard somebody say something to me. Then I look over and I see the officer. Who's around me? Nobody. According to the video and the evidence. What's hallucinating? When you hear voices but there's no source for voices. It's consistent with reality. That's an auditory hallucination. She disregarded it. Hallucination is a symptom of psychosis. Psychosis, out of touch with reality. You don't understand the wrong cause of your conduct. That is evidence that he's experiencing acute psychosis. She ignored it. That's why I tell you forensic psychology and psychology is not two plus two is four. It means different things to different psychologists. How do you know that? [03:14:16] Speaker ?: That's not my argument. That's the evidence. [03:14:18] Speaker 5: What did Dr. O'Donnell say? Hey, we were just talking about that. Three or four of us hanging around and we were talking about can you believe or trust when a psych patient gives you a narrative of a defense. She said all of them had a different conclusion. That's the inherent nature of psychology. That's why you have to look at all of the evidence. And that's why you use expert testimony to assist you as a trier of fact. Then the report indicates that he said I had turned a little bit to hit him. And they're hanging their hat on this. I turned a little bit to hit him. This is what she said Rodney Hinton said. And then she asked him, did you mean to? What did he say? Sounding like a psychotic patient. What did he say? Sort of, kind of, not really. Like I said, I was not thinking. Not rationally. Like I said before, if I was thinking right, I wouldn't have done it. That indicates that person was psychotic. She's going to say the fact that he said if I was thinking right I wouldn't have done it. In case he understood the wrong result of his conduct because he thought it was wrong. You are speaking to him 10 months after the incident. He knows he did something wrong. He's been in jail for 10 months. You know he's been in jail for 10 months. Now, so she ruled out Rodney having acute psychosis at the time of the offense. Because, according to her, if you don't have psychosis on April 29th, April 30th, and May 1st, then you don't have it on May 2nd, and if you don't have it on May 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th, you don't have it on May 2nd. And all of you knew that that did not make sense. You all remember she said that because you all have some experience as many people in society about what psychosis is. And you know people who have gotten into illnesses. We all do. That doesn't make sense because you have to have an onset and a termination of a psychotic episode. So to say that it's not happening two weeks before, and it's not happening two weeks after, means that it's not happening on that day, that's asinine. That's nonsensical from a layman's perspective. But I can't just rely on my own common sense about that being wrong. I have to prove that it was wrong. She said that he was not experiencing acute psychosis because she saw no signs of it that day, even though there were signs of it that day. But since I didn't see signs of it that day, even though she only spoke to him and Anna Booker, then he's not experiencing acute psychotic symptoms. That's the linchpin and the grathoment of her opinion. And that is psychologically erroneous and wrong. How do we know that? Don't take it from me. Take it from the Bible of psychology and psychiatry. The Diagnostic Statistic Manual that lists and publicizes a psychology authority diagnosis of mental illnesses. And one of those diagnoses in the DSM is brief psychotic disorder. That lasts for 24 hours or less, up to 30 days. It's in the literature. It's in the DSM. Don't just take that. Take the testimony of Dr. O'Donnell. She says, "Yes, I recognize brief psychotic disorder." How long has it lasted? 24 hours or less. [03:18:00] Speaker ?: Hmm. [03:18:01] Speaker 5: So, once again, the state has one of their witnesses undermining another witness or undermining their case. So, when she was talking about that, mention the fact that your expert, Dr. Atkins, based her opinion that he understood the wrongness of his conduct on the fact that he could not be experiencing psychosis on May 2nd because he didn't have it this week before and after. Before and after. And that flies in the face and is totally inconsistent with evidence of Dr. O'Donnell, more importantly, the DSM. So, what does that mean? Her opinion is fundamentally flawed and unreliable and inconsistent with known psychological principles and testimony from an expert witness. [03:18:48] Speaker ?: It's unreliable. [03:18:49] Speaker 5: And I proved to you that it was unreliable as compared to just saying that it wasn't. I proved to you that her opinion was psychologically unreliable based on the literature and the expert testimony of Dr. O'Donnell. So, back to her report. She asked him, "Did you plan to do it?" He said, "No." [03:19:13] Speaker ?: "Do you remember what he looked like?" [03:19:14] Speaker 5: Rodney said, "No." "He was standing on the sidewalk." Well, that's inaccurate. Because of Court Dollar Evans, he never was standing on the sidewalk. Ever. Ever. [03:19:21] Speaker ?: Did you hit the brakes? [03:19:21] Speaker 5: I don't think so. Critically, what did he say? I didn't hit the brakes. [03:19:24] Speaker ?: I hit the officer. [03:19:25] Speaker 1: That's not what he said. [03:19:26] Speaker 5: Go to page 30. Not page 30. He said, "I don't think so." I hit a pole. [03:19:30] Speaker ?: I hit a pole. [03:19:31] Speaker 5: I hit a pole. [03:19:32] Speaker ?: That's not what he said. Go to page 30. Not page 30. [03:19:35] Speaker 5: He said, "I don't think so." I hit a pole. I hit a pole. That's not what he said. I hit a pole. I hit a pole. I hit a pole. I hit a pole. That's not what he said. Go to page 30. Not page 30. He said, "I don't think so." I hit a pole. That's not just him saying that. There's five or six other witnesses from the States who said that. At least four or five. That he hit a pole. And one said he was trying to hit a pole intentionally. So, she ruled out suicide because Rodney's statement that he was not trying to commit suicide. She said that Rodney never said that he was trying to commit suicide. There's two other experts who put in a report that, in fact, on May 2nd, Rodney was suicidal. The conclusions she made to support her opinions are false. They're not present. Her opinions are reliable. Look at her testimony in the report. Go to page 7 of her report. She said he had psychosis, schizoaffective disorder, major depressive disorder. And this is where she lands. Weeks leading up to the offense, no acute symptoms. Days after the offense, Claremont County Jail, defendant denied psychiatric symptoms. So, no acute symptoms then. Therefore, he was not accurately symptomatic at the time of the offense. These are her words. She repeatedly said this is why he was not acutely, acutely symptomatic. Because he wasn't the weeks before and after. This is not true. Implies in the face of brief psychotic disorder that is documented. Her opinion that Rodney knew the wrong proof of his conduct at the time of the offense is based on false information. There is a condition called brief psychotic disorder. And it lasts for 24 hours or less. And it is not reality based. Dr. O'Donnell testified about it. Dr. Espinola testified about it. And common sense dictates it. The law requires you to give Dr. Atkins opinion. No way. Mr. Guy is going to say, well there's some other things that she relied upon. Let's briefly talk about that and then I'm going to wrap up with Dr. O'Donnell. And I'm going to sit down and squirm because I can't respond to what Mr. Guy is going to say. She goes on to say that Rodney had current intact knowledge of the wrongness of his conduct. She's talking about the wrongness of his conduct when she's interviewing him ten months later when he's in jail. Common sense and reason. If you're psychotic on May 2nd and you get interviewed in February. Aren't you going to know that there's an accusation that you've done something wrong? Then she says when he woke up after the accident he was aware that he had done something wrong. Now temporarily that's moving close to relevant time. But what time is she talking about? When did he wake up? Is she talking about when he was at the emergency room at the University of Cincinnati? Is she talking about when he was at the Hamilton County Justice Center? Is she talking about when he was in the Claremont County Jail? When did he wake up? And what information was he made aware of after he woke up to indicate to him that he may have done something wrong? Did that come from his knowledge of what he did at the common defense? Or did that come from the circumstances that he experienced after? We don't know. And she doesn't know. And she doesn't know. She just said the Claremont County Jail record indicate that he didn't describe or present with or endorse psychosis. Well, when did they talk to him? What did they ask him? How long were they watching him? Did they talk to him on the 4th or the 5th or was it on the 1st or the 2nd? What was the observation of him? What does the record show from the Claremont County Jail? She didn't know any of that. But I'll tell you what would have shown. That she didn't talk about. She didn't talk about his video after the incident. She didn't talk about his statement to the police. She just looked at the Claremont County records and it didn't say anything about psychosis. And she concluded he wasn't experiencing acute psychotic symptoms. Look at the information that the experts are relying upon for their opinions. This is in the final opinion part of the report. And that conclusion is not based on a lot of information. It's based on an assumption. And not a psychological one. Now. Last witness. And I'm done. Dr. O'Donnell. Dr. O'Donnell. Is a very experienced forensic psychologist. And she's an expert in the field. The evidence indicated that I've had her on many of my cases. And she's qualified. To give an opinion. About whether or not he was not guilty by reading on the sand. So I'm not saying that she was not qualified to give her opinion. She cut and pasted significant parts of her not guilty by reading on the sand. From a previous report. She even used the wrong name. At one point. And she committed some other typographical errors. And I told her. That doesn't mean anything, does it? No. That's form not substance. Yes. But they tried to say that Dr. Espinola was incredible. So family. For the same reason. They go low. [03:26:05] Speaker ?: I stay high. [03:26:06] Speaker 5: High is the substance of the case. The substance of the expert's testimony. Look at the. Axiomatic. Irreputable. Psychological principle. And apply those. To the. [03:26:14] Speaker ?: Opinion and report. [03:26:15] Speaker 5: Of the expert. I'm not going to talk about her for dentures. [03:26:17] Speaker ?: Louvre said she was qualified. [03:26:18] Speaker 5: As an expert forensic psychologist. So let's look at what she said. irrefutable psychological principle and apply those to the opinion and report of the expert. I'm not going to talk about her credentials. Louvre said she was qualified as an expert forensic psychologist. So let's look at what she said. Whether your experience psychosis can be based or impacted by whether you are taking your medication. Again, that's common sense. She said that Rodney saw improvement with medication until he stopped, but she didn't know when he stopped. Same thing Dr. Espinova said. So what's the significance of that? Well, if you had psychotic episodes in the past and there's evidence that you may be having it on May 2nd and there's evidence that you did not take your medication before May 2nd, that's considering having a psychotic episode on the 2nd. Common sense of reason. She said she didn't know whether Rodney was taking anti-psychotic medication. She said that acute emotional distress can cause someone with major depressive disorder to have symptoms. Suicidal ideation is related to depression. Common sense of reason. If you're depressed, you may kill yourself. He had major depressive disorder. Now, does that go for whether or not he's psychotic at the time? No. Mr. Guy nelly does. It goes for whether or not he was suicidal when he hit that pole or whether or not he was trying to kill him. This is evidence he was trying to kill himself when he hit the pole. Her report indicates that, and this is under mental offense at the time, mental condition at the time of the offense on page 8. It's critical. One more. All I need about page 18 about 10% of the offense. I'll be done. I'm going to ask you to go back to the Doctor's Expert Report, which is dated February 15, 2026. I'm going to quote from it, and if I'm wrong, hold it against me. That's how confident that I am. I'm going to quote actually what's in there. Don't have the time to put it up on the border to show you. Go back and look at the report when you're deliberating. The report indicates that the defendant was considering killing himself on May 2nd, 2025. The defendant described the move as very depressed and he was considering suicide on the arm on May 2nd, 2025. He's suicidal. That's evidence. He's suicidal on May 2nd, 2025. Where did the evidence come from? The state's expert witness. But Doctor Atkins said he didn't say he was suicidal, but she read this report. In preparation for a testimony in her own report. Well, not for her own report, but for her testimony. Now, the report also indicates that Rodney was despondent. Deeply emotional, defeated, and hopeless. That's what despondent means. So, when a psychologist says despondent, give words their ordinary meaning. That means you're deeply emotional, you feel defeated, you're hopeless. If that's not consistent with suicide, I don't know what is. Common sense of reason. The report also says that he was inconsolable. That means you're overwhelmed with emotional pain and grief or distress. That means you can't be comforted. You're inconsolable. That's consistent with suicide. This is all evidence he was trying to commit suicide when he struck that pole. She testified, also, that her viewing of the video does not demonstrate whether Rodney was experiencing acute psychotic symptoms. So, the fact that Dr. Espinola didn't view that video does not undermine her opinion. Because you've got another doctor, their own doctor, saying that that was not relevant to whether or not he was experiencing psychotic symptoms. Her report also indicates when he was in the parking lot, relatives were trying to determine where he was mentally. Where's he at mentally? That's consistent with psychotic symptoms because I can look at you and you're looking at him. Where are you at? What's going on with you? The report also indicates when he stopped in traffic on Martin Luther King, he heard a voice, which caused him to look out the window. Words were stated. She admitted that. But there was no evidence that anybody was there. She agreed that hallucinating is hearing something that does not exist. And hallucination is a symptom of psychosis. She ruled it out. So, when Dr. Espinola rules it in, does it say that it's wrong? No, because the elements of hallucination were meant. You just had a person who said, I don't think so. The inherent fundamental nature of psychology doesn't undermine Dr. Espinola's opinion. She agreed that the video did not show anyone near the car. She agreed that Rodney has a history of psychosis, but she ruled it out. Now, what she didn't do is give you a psychological reason for moving it out. She just kept saying, I concluded that he knew the wrong ones of the conduct. No, give me a meaningful analysis of psychology. You're an expert. We're not in a bar or the living room. We're in a courtroom and you're an expert. So when you give an opinion, you give me a meaningful explanation and analysis of psychological principles for your opinion. Don't just say I concluded he was wrong, that's not enough. She agreed that a person experiencing symptoms of psychosis would not understand the wrongness of their conduct because their perception of reality is flawed. She concluded he did not characterize it as a hallucination. Reconcile that. So because he didn't characterize it as a hallucination, it means that it wasn't. So instead of just making this argument, I knew I'd be making this argument to you. So I spelled it out and asked her psychologically what would account for his inability to characterize it as a hallucination. And she agreed. Patients with psychosis may have impaired insight, not recognize their symptoms or the result of illness. And she agreed a person with psychosis may give different accounts of the same event to different people because psychosis makes it difficult for them to accurately recall events. Now that's a psychological principle. And that's the evidence. UC medical records does not mean the defendant was not experiencing psychosis. Symptoms are not always observable. They are trying to stabilize the patient. So Dr. Atkins is making a big deal of the fact that the UC medical records don't indicate that he was experiencing psychosis. And I think Dr. O'Donnell said the same thing. Common sense of reason. There was no psychologist, clinical psychologist, forensic psychologist, or psychiatrist in that emergency room. There were emergency room doctors trying to stabilize Mr. Henry. So are they going to know that he's experiencing psychosis particularly when sometimes there's no physical manifestation? No. That's common sense. Then she had to admit that her report indicates that Rodney said he did not know the wrongfulness of his conduct at the time of the offense. So sometimes you can believe what he's saying, sometimes you can't believe that. And why didn't you? It's 10 months later. He's been sitting in jail. He knows why he's there and I don't remember the wrongfulness of that. Why isn't that just as credible as all of the other statements they're attributing to him? Because it doesn't fit the narrative of the state of Ohio. But then she testified. He just made a statement that I did not understand the wrongfulness of my conduct at the time of the offense. And this is proof by preponderance of the evidence. Their witness is saying that he said he didn't understand the wrongfulness of his conduct at the time of the offense. That's evidence. I proved by preponderance of the evidence that he's not guilty by reason of insanity. But then she goes on. She testifies that Rodney was not malingering or being untruthful. So he's telling the truth. He's not guilty by reason of insanity based on that evidence. This is proof by preponderance of the evidence that he did not understand the wrongfulness of his conduct. Her analysis of a report indicates that the defendant has a serious mental disease. He was not however so acutely ill at the time of the offense that he did not know the wrongfulness of his conduct. He was not so acutely ill. He was not so acutely ill. You know what that means. Common sense and reason. This means that he was acutely ill to a certain extent or degree. We know what that means. She says she must have queen's command of the English and not king's. No. That's not what I said and that's not what I implied. I implied you wrote down what you meant and what you wrote down was so acutely ill, which means in English terms, give words their ordinary meaning, you are distinguishing the extent of the acute illness. It's common sense and reason. So that means that he was acutely ill at that time, but she didn't think it was enough. And she's an expert. If she wanted to say he was not acutely ill, she could have said it. But she didn't say it. In the report, she also says there is no evidence to suggest he was hallucinating. Well, that's not true. I just went over all the evidence indicating that that she was aware of indicating he was hallucinating. The report says that the family followed him in their car when he was driving alone, but there was no indication that he was acutely ill. But then she also testified that it's important to speak to the people around you at the time of the offense. But she didn't. But you're making a conclusion that the family followed him and that was the only indication that he was acutely ill. No, it isn't. If you're going to say an indication that he was, look at this, if you're going to say that an indication that he was acutely ill at the time of the offense was the fact that the family followed him. But that's the only indication that it was acute illness. But you didn't talk to the people that was around him at the time of the offense. That would more so be probative and dispositive of acute illness than a person that was just with him in the car. What about the people that was talking to him, that he was communicating with, that was there at the scene? Her reports are reliable. She clearly would have known he was experiencing acute symptoms of psychosis at the time of the offense. If she talked to Kiara Hinton, she would have known what Rodney told, what Rodney told her and how he appeared after the video. Glare, vacant look, disconnected, not there. Same as Dr. O'Donnell. She didn't get that information for whatever reason. Her conclusion is not based on critical information. Her opinion is not reliable. She did testify that if you are psychotic and experiencing acute psychotic symptoms, I'm almost done. You act different to certain demographics of people. Look at the report. You act different to demographics of certain people. That's consistent with acute psychosis. And she said law enforcement would be one of those groups. That's her testimony coming from their witness. That's me proven by the ponderance of the evidence. That is exactly what happened in this case. And it's consistent So after all of that, where did she land? For her opinion that she knew the wrongs of this conduct. Where did Dr. O'Donnell land? This is where she landed. This is where she landed. She testified that the primary reason she concluded that Rodney was not experiencing acute symptoms of psychosis and thus he knew the wrongs of this conduct. This is where she landed. This is where she landed. She testified that the primary reason she concluded that Rodney was not experiencing acute symptoms of psychosis and thus he knew the wrongs of this conduct at the time of the offense. Look at her report. was because he successfully negotiated traffic for 20 minutes before crashing his car. She hung her hat on that circumstance. She hung her hat on that circumstance. And what we all know now that that is a flawed, erroneous, wrong, misunderstanding of psychological principles of psychology. How do we know that? We know that from her. She told you. How did she tell you that? Because she was sitting on that stand and I said are you aware of this publication, Psychiatric Times or Psychiatric Journal? Yes. Um, are you aware of this article? She looked at it and she said yes. It was a 70 year old man that had driven a car successfully and negotiated traffic and he was experiencing acute psychotic symptoms. And then she said oh I, I, I, I, you can have acute psychotic symptoms and drive a car. Many of my patients do that. This admission totally undermines her entire opinion that Rodney knew the wrongness of his conduct because he could drive. It does not make sense. The, her admission challenges the validity of the inference. She used to support her opinion that Rodney understood the wrongness of his conduct as common sense and reason. Her final opinion should not be given, uh, any weight. I proved through the evidence, not argument, it's erroneous. So, she said she didn't say this, I'm paraphrasing now. You know what? What we really look at is what everybody else looks at. These are her words. What we look at and determine if somebody knows the wrongness of their conduct, we look at what everybody else looks at. And I said okay well let's talk about that. And she said okay. And we talked about it. And what were those things and what was her response? There are factors that you should look at in determining whether someone knows the wrongness of their conduct. Hiding evidence. She said there was no evidence of Rodney hiding evidence. Second, lying about the offense. She said there was no evidence of Rodney lying about the offense. Third, trying to flee from the police. There was no evidence Rodney tried to flee from the police. Malinger. There's no evidence Rodney malinger. Effort to conceal the crime. There's no evidence he tried to conceal the crime. Sixth, elbow test. She waffled on that but at the end of the day she said the elbow test was to see if you would do something in front of the police. And we all know he did what he did in front of the police. So, I ask you everything that you think a lay person would look at, we looked at and it's all consistent with Rodney not knowing the wrong fools of his conduct. I said how do you reconcile that with your opinion? I concluded he didn't understand the wrong fools of his conduct. So, again, no meaningful analysis or explanation psychologically why this is not dispositive of him having psychosis. Just a conclusively statement in response to that evidence that, because this is evidence, this is evidence proven by proponents of the evidence that he was psychotic at the time. Because he, every factor indicates that he was psychotic. She couldn't explain it. The prosecution wants you to disregard this information and just go out for their arguments. The last thing she did was this, and I think this is critical, and I testified before so I'm not going to belabor it. Dr. Atkins, the linchpin of Dr. Atkins opinion that he understood the wrong fools of his conduct was the fact that he didn't experience acute psychosis before and after May 2nd. And Dr. O'Donnell told you that is just not true, and I wouldn't have concluded that. This is proof by me through examination of the state's witnesses that you should give no weight to either of their experts. The primary controlling basis of their not guilty by reason of insanity opinions is based on the absolute wrong interpretation of fundamental psychological principles. I did not attack the form of their report. I did not talk about typos or qualifications or who's getting paid. I attacked their opinions substantively. The law says that expert testimony is admitted for whatever assistance it may provide you to reach a verdict. You don't have to follow expert testimony. You don't have to believe it in making a determination about not guilty by reason of insanity. You must consider all of the evidence. And if you do, the only bird in this case regarding not guilty by reason of insanity is that he is not guilty by reason of insanity because I have more. I have gone beyond proof by the evidence. I have gone beyond proof by the ponderance of the evidence. You've taken into consideration all of the expert testimony and all of the fact witnesses. it's clear by the ponderance of the evidence that he didn't understand the wrongness of his conduct because of acute psychotic symptoms. Finally, the imperative of judicial integrity in our great country, in the United States, the imperative of judicial integrity is that the accused shall be found not guilty if he must. It is not you. It is the law that requires and mandates that he be found not guilty. So don't feel bad about it. Justice is the fair application of the law regardless of consequences, regardless of if you live in a racially torn, politically divided community that wants certain things to happen. You have to ignore that and look at the law and look at the evidence in this case. The law requires that Rodney be found not guilty to each and every charge in the indictment because the state did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he purposely or normally killed Deputy Henderson. He recklessly killed Deputy Henderson while attempting to kill himself. That is what the evidence shows. The evidence shows also by preponderance of the evidence that Rodney was acutely ill with psychosis at the time of the offense, therefore is not guilty by reason of insanity. Look at the evidence, not the arguments and the claims. Look at the evidence. If you do that and you follow your creed as jurors to follow the law and not succumb to your emotions and the sympathy that you have and that you should have for this family. If you disregard that like Judge Luber is going to tell you, not guilty by reason of insanity is the only just verdict. I thank you for your time and your attention. That's all. [03:50:15] Speaker 1: I'm not holding you roughly an hour, hour, hour and a half, two. Just give me a ballpark. I don't think it's late. Really? Okay. So, the state gets to make a second closing argument. I told you that because they have the burden of proof. And then I have 38 pages of jury instructions. I'm probably 45 minutes, give or take. I only want to give you half an hour lunch because we've got to do all this this afternoon. Are you guys okay with that? Half an hour? Thank you. I really appreciate it. Because I do want to get you out of here. We might go a little bit past four. I know somebody didn't want to leave past four. But I've got to go until this is finished. Closing and then jury instructions. You guys okay? So, during this lunch, eat a little bit, but don't drink very much. Okay. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Do whatever you need. Thank you for your alertness, your awareness, your paying attention. Really, really appreciate it. It's a lot. I know it is. It has been for two weeks and it's not over yet. But we're almost done. I think we're going to be done this afternoon. So, during this lunch break, please do not discuss the case with anyone. Please don't allow anyone to discuss it with you. Please do not form or express any opinion on this case until it's submitted to you, which we're getting really, really close to. Okay? So, if you could just take half an hour. If you could meet at 1:30 back in the jury room, we'd really appreciate that. And be ready to go. So, when I say 1:30, like, use the restroom and everything. This is everybody. So, when I say be back here at 1:30, like, use the restroom and everything. And be ready to go at 1:30. Okay? Thanks so much. See you in half an hour. [03:52:13] Speaker ?: Thank you. Thank you.