CENTCOM Commander Adm. Brad Cooper Testifies In The House After Trump Delays Iran Strikes

[0:00] committee will come to order. Without objection, the chair reserves the right to declare the [0:05] committee in recess at any point. Before we begin, I want to remind those in the audience that this [0:11] hearing is open to the public, but actions that disrupt or distract the proceedings will not be [0:16] tolerated. The chair reserves the right to remove disruptive persons from the hearing. The U.S. [0:21] Capitol Police are on hand to assist with that task, and I thank them for their service. Also, [0:27] a few more housekeeping notes. We will adjourn this open session no later than 1.30 p.m. Members [0:35] are also advised that we will enforce the new security protocols for today's closed hearing. [0:41] The HASS staff at that time will ask you to sign in to the classified portion of the brief of the [0:47] hearing. You will have to leave all materials and other items, including daily briefing books, [0:53] purses, etc., outside the room, except for unclassified loose papers containing questions [1:00] for the briefers, and surrender all loose papers for destruction or safekeeping in a secure committee [1:05] space upon departure. With that, I'll turn back to the opening remarks. Today, we continue our posture [1:12] hearings with CENTCOM and AFRICOM. For 47 years, the Iranian regime and its proxies have murdered [1:20] Americans attacked our allies and terrorized the Middle East. On October 7 of 2023, the world saw [1:29] exactly what Iran's terror network was capable of when Hamas carried out the deadliest attack on the [1:36] Jewish people since the Holocaust. The lesson is clear. Iran can never have a nuclear weapon. [1:44] President Trump is committed to ensuring that that never happens. Last summer, Operation Midnight Hammer [1:52] delivered a destructive blow to Iran's nuclear program. Operation Epic Fury shattered the regime's [2:00] ability to shield that program with its conventional forces. Despite the criticism, there should be no [2:07] confusion about what this operation set out to achieve. Destroy Iran's ballistic missiles and drone [2:15] capabilities. Cripple Iran's Navy. And third, dismantle Iran's defense industrial base to prevent it from [2:24] projecting power outside its borders. And the results were decisive. To quote Admiral Cooper, his written [2:31] statement, in 38 days, we rolled back 40 years of Iranian military investment, close quote. More than 85% of [2:40] Iran's ballistic missile drone and naval defense industrial base has been damaged or destroyed. The regime's [2:48] ability to stockpile ballistic missiles and long-range drones has been set back by years. Iran's Air Force is no [2:56] more. Over 90% of Iran's traditional Navy has been sunk. And Iran is now far less capable of sustaining terrorist [3:05] proxies like Hezbollah and the Houthis and Hamas. This operation also demonstrated the unmatched [3:13] professionalism, lethality and courage of the American warfighter. Every American should take pride in what our [3:21] forces accomplished under extraordinarily demanding conditions. And we must honor the 13 brave Americans who [3:29] made the ultimate sacrifice in their service to our country. Operation Epic Fury also demonstrated the [3:35] enduring strength of America's allies, alliances and partnerships. That begins with Israel, a model ally, fought [3:45] alongside the United States throughout this campaign. Our Gulf partners and Jordan provided critical access, [3:52] basing and overflight support. So too did our NATO allies. Almost without exception, our NATO allies opened their bases and [4:02] their airspace to support this mission. That access was critical to sustaining an operation of this scale. But this [4:10] conflict also reminded us who our friends are not. China and Russia reportedly assisted Iran during this conflict. That should [4:20] concern every American citizen. Any effort by our adversaries to help Iran rebuild its military must carry consequences. And while [4:29] Operation Epic Fury has concluded, pressure on the Iranian regime continues. I want to hear more from Admiral Cooper about how [4:38] CENTCOM's current posture, including the blockade of the Iranian ports, is supporting diplomatic efforts by increasing pressure on what remains of the regime. [4:50] My understanding is that the damage to Iran's oil infrastructure and the loss of millions of dollars in daily revenue are imposing severe economic cost on Tehran. [4:59] That pressure matters because not only must Iran never obtain a nuclear weapon, it must also not be allowed to dominate the Strait of Hormuz. [5:08] China is watching closely to see whether the United States will defend freedom of navigation, protect global commerce and respond decisively to aggression. [5:19] We must not falter in our resolve. At the same time, we must not forget the area of the Middle East and Africa remain hotbeds of terrorism. [5:28] It is imperative that we continue hunting ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab and other terrorist groups before they can threaten our homeland. [5:37] I want to hear from both commanders about how they are working with regional partners to keep terrorists on the run. [5:43] The successful operation over the weekend targeting the second in command of ISIS in Nigeria demonstrated once again that terrorists have no refuge from the United States military or our partners. [5:57] General Anderson, to sustain that pressure, I want your assessment of whether AFRICOM has the necessary resources. [6:05] I look forward to hearing from all of our witnesses today. [6:08] I yield to the ranking member, my friend Adam Smith, for any opening statement he may have. [6:12] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [6:13] Thank our witnesses for coming before us today. [6:15] The CENTCOM and AFRICOM AORs are incredibly important. [6:18] And if there's one word to sum it up right now, it's instability. [6:21] And that instability is incredibly dangerous. [6:24] Certainly, we will talk, I know, a great deal about the war against Iran and the instability in the Middle East. [6:30] But Africa is also a very unstable place right now. [6:34] We are engaged in bombing campaign from time to time in Nigeria. [6:37] ISIS and ISIS affiliates are rising, particularly in Mali, Niger and Bacana Faso. [6:43] So that instability is definitely making us less safe. [6:47] Terrorist organizations have bases of support. [6:50] An almost caliphate-like situation is existing in Africa. [6:54] And obviously, we've seen the chaos in the Middle East with the rise of Shia-backed militias in Iraq, [6:59] the ongoing war between Israel and Lebanon, [7:02] and obviously the ongoing conflict with Iran, the shutdown of the Strait of Hormuz. [7:06] It goes beyond the national security threat in terms of terrorism. [7:12] The economy, the impact it's having certainly on our economy, [7:15] but the global economy as well. [7:17] And then, we can also have the rise of disease. [7:19] We have a strain of Ebola that apparently is stronger than usual growing up in the DRC [7:25] where there is also instability. [7:26] So the number one biggest thing is, [7:28] how can we bring more stability to the region? [7:30] Work with partners, allies, others in the region to get us to a better place than we are in right now, [7:35] because it is as bad as it's been for a very, very long time. [7:40] On Iran, I disagree with the chairman, unsurprisingly. [7:44] Yes, we have knocked back a lot of Iran's capability. [7:49] The truth of the matter is, in all the questions that I've asked, [7:51] we don't know for sure how much. [7:53] We don't know exactly how many ballistic missiles they have, [7:55] what their capabilities are. [7:57] We know it has been substantially weakened, [7:59] but we don't have specific answers to that. [8:03] We also have to worry about the fact that Russia, China, and North Korea [8:07] are more than willing to be helpful to Iran. [8:09] And I'm not sure, threats aside, [8:12] we're in a position to change their mind about that. [8:15] So we have to be worried about that. [8:17] But we do know for sure, whatever capability Iran has, [8:21] they have the capability to shut down the straightforward moves. [8:24] And frankly, I don't care whether they've got 75% less ballistic missiles, [8:28] 80% less ballistic missiles. [8:30] They clearly, the regime is in place. [8:32] It's not going anywhere. [8:33] It is more hard line than it was when this war started. [8:37] And they have done something that they had not previously done, [8:40] which is shut down the Strait of Hormuz, [8:42] which is causing massive economic disasters for us [8:45] and for the entire world. [8:47] So, you know, we can go through the body count here and say, [8:50] we destroyed this many ballistic missiles. [8:52] We destroyed this many launchers. [8:53] We set their capability back. [8:55] That's all fascinating. [8:56] Strategically, we are in a disaster right now. [9:00] And that's what needs to be fixed. [9:02] And we do not see a path out of that. [9:04] Let's just focus on the nuclear weapon program. [9:06] Because any criticism of the war is sort of met with, [9:09] well, gosh, if it wasn't for the war, [9:11] Iran would have already detonated nuclear weapons in the Middle East. [9:14] That's completely ridiculous. [9:16] I mean, that's an argument for Fox News and Newsmax maybe. [9:19] But in the real world, that doesn't justify what has happened. [9:23] Because the nuclear program for Iran is no weaker today than what was when this war started. [9:29] We have destroyed none of their nuclear material and set them back not one tiny little bit. [9:34] The only thing that has changed on Iran's nuclear program, [9:38] they are now unwilling to negotiate about it. [9:41] They were willing to negotiate. [9:42] They were actively negotiating about it when we started this war. [9:45] So, please, let's not get over into the detail about, [9:48] oh, we destroyed this many missiles, this many launchers. [9:50] What is the strategic plan to reopen the Strait of Hormuz [9:54] and get us any closer to stopping Iran's nuclear program? [9:59] For all the criticisms of the previous presidents, [10:02] which, of course, the current president was one of those previous presidents, [10:05] all of those previous presidents managed to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon [10:10] without dropping the Middle East and much of the world into chaos. [10:14] That is really the difference right now. [10:17] And I know most of the uniformed folks, when we ask these questions, [10:20] say, well, we're just going to tell you what's going on. [10:22] We don't do the strategy. [10:24] I find that an incredibly unacceptable answer, [10:26] and not an answer that I had ever gotten before from uniformed personnel [10:30] under any other president. [10:31] The whole we just work here thing doesn't really work. [10:34] You guys should have strategic answers, [10:37] and you should be willing to share them with the American people [10:39] and with this committee. [10:41] Where we're at right now is the president, [10:45] every few days, threatens to kill as many Iranians as humanly possible. [10:50] He does it in a variety of different language. [10:52] But basically, no quarter, you know, we will erase their civilization. [10:56] We'll kill every single person in Iran. [10:58] And the chairman is absolutely right. [11:00] The Iranian regime is awful, evil, terrible. [11:02] They've killed tens of thousands of Iranian civilians [11:04] and done terrible things throughout the region. [11:06] What, are we in a competition with them now [11:08] to talk about how many Iranian civilians we can kill? [11:11] So just saying that pushes a good chunk of the world further away from us. [11:16] They're like, I don't know that we want to deal with those people. [11:18] But of course, he says it, and then the next day or two days later, [11:21] it doesn't do anything, much less that, [11:24] and then claims that Iran is now willing to negotiate on all these issues. [11:29] In fact, the absolute nadir of this process was, I think it was four weeks ago, [11:34] when I woke up Friday morning and the president said, [11:37] Iran has completely capitulated. [11:39] You remember that? [11:40] The war was over. [11:41] You know, Iran had agreed to get rid of their nukes, [11:43] get rid of their terrorism support, [11:44] get rid of their ballistic missiles, open up this. [11:46] Straight was open, and there was reporting all day long like this was real. [11:50] The president literally made it up. [11:54] There was no progress whatsoever, [11:55] and now the credibility of our entire country, [11:58] because sadly the credibility of our country [12:00] hinges on the credibility of our president, [12:02] is dead. [12:03] Who's going to believe anything we say? [12:05] There is no evidence today that Iran is negotiating any of these things. [12:09] Their position has not budged. [12:11] Pay us to open up the strait. [12:13] That's basically their position, [12:15] which is an incredibly weaker position for us. [12:18] So what we need to know today is what's the strategic plan [12:22] to get us out of this hole we're in. [12:24] And thumping our chest about how many successful missions we ran [12:28] doesn't change the fact that our economy is in the toilet, [12:31] inflation is higher than it's been in three or four years, [12:34] gas prices are up a buck fifty, [12:35] and there's no end in sight. [12:36] And it's worse for the rest of the world, [12:39] because as the president dismissively pointed out, [12:42] but correctly pointed out, [12:44] the rest of the world is more dependent [12:46] upon the Strait of Hormuz being open than we are, [12:49] which makes them just so grateful to us [12:51] for having effectively shut it down. [12:53] So let's hear a plan [12:56] that isn't the president getting up in the morning [12:58] and imagining that somehow wish fulfillment works in foreign policy, [13:02] imagining that Iran has completely capitulated to all of our demands. [13:06] What is an actual plan to get us out of this hole [13:10] that the United States has done such an outstanding job of digging for all of us? [13:15] That's what we need to hear today. [13:17] I yield back. [13:18] I thank the ranking member. [13:21] I'd now like to introduce our witnesses. [13:23] First, we have the Honorable Dan Zimmerman, [13:25] Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, [13:28] Admiral Brad Cooper, Commander of CENTCOM, [13:31] and General Dagbin Anderson, Commander of APRICOM. [13:38] Welcome to our witnesses. [13:40] Mr. Zimmerman, we'll start with you. You're recognized. [13:42] Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith [13:45] and distinguished members of this committee, [13:47] thank you for the opportunity to testify [13:49] on the posture of our forces and strategic priorities [13:52] within the U.S. Central Command [13:54] and U.S. Africa Command areas of responsibility. [13:57] It is my honor to appear alongside CENTCOM Commander Admiral Cooper [14:03] and AFRICOM Commander General Anderson. [14:06] My testimony today will focus on the department's approach [14:09] to posture and strategy in these two theaters [14:12] and how that is guided by our National Defense Strategy, or NDS. [14:17] The NDS is based on the principles of peace through strength [14:20] and America First foreign policy flowing from the conviction [14:25] that a government's first duty is always to its own citizens. [14:28] Our strategy has four succinct lines of effort. [14:31] First, we will defend the homeland. [14:34] Second, we will deter China in the Indo-Pacific. [14:37] Third, we will encourage and expect our allies and partners [14:41] to step up and take more responsibility, [14:44] especially in those areas where they have direct national security interests. [14:48] And finally, to achieve all of this, [14:50] we must supercharge the U.S. defense industrial base. [14:54] Our strategy is America First. [14:58] The United States will prioritize theaters and challenges [15:01] with the greatest consequence for American interests [15:04] and where only American power can play a decisive role. [15:07] Our adversaries must understand without doubt [15:10] that the United States possesses both the capability [15:13] and the political will to use decisive force [15:16] to protect its vital interests [15:18] and to safeguard the security and prosperity of the American people. [15:21] As the NDS lays out, we aim to work with and support our allies [15:26] and partners around the world to deter threats, [15:29] set conditions for peace, [15:30] and to pursue mutual security interests. [15:33] Regarding the Middle East, [15:35] President Trump has made clear that the United States [15:37] seeks a more peaceful and prosperous Middle East, [15:40] one defined by commerce and not chaos. [15:43] This needs to be a Middle East where our allies and partners [15:47] invest in and take the lead in responsibility for their own security. [15:52] But to be clear, the United States will always retain the ability [15:56] to act decisively to defend ourselves and our allies [15:59] where and when we need. [16:01] Operation Epic Fury is an example of this strategy in action. [16:06] The President initiated Operation Epic Fury in direct response [16:10] to the Iranian regime that waged a one-sided war against America [16:14] for 47 years that threatened allies and partners [16:17] and caused thousands of American casualties. [16:22] And I would like to mention here and acknowledge the 14 fallen service members. [16:28] We honor them and their families. [16:31] Across every domain, land, sea, air, and cyber, [16:35] the U.S. joint force delivered synchronized and layered effects [16:38] to disrupt, degrade, and destroy Iran's ability to conduct and sustain combat operations. [16:44] The Secretary has noted that although Operation Epic Fury was historic [16:48] for its complexity, lethality, and precision, [16:51] it also had a laser-focused mission scoped to our interests [16:55] and the defense of our people and our allies. [16:58] President Trump also seeks to redefine the United States' relationship with Africa, [17:03] transitioning from an aid-focused relationship [17:06] to a trade and investment-focused relationship, [17:09] favoring partnerships with capable, reliable states intent on achieving common interests. [17:15] Our department will take a resource-sustainable approach to counterterrorism [17:20] and stand ready to take direct action against Islamic terrorists in Africa [17:25] who are both capable of and intent on striking the U.S. homeland, [17:30] while empowering African and other partners to lead efforts to degrade and destroy terrorist organizations, [17:36] throughout the continent. [17:38] Our operation with Nigeria over the weekend is an example of this strategy in action. [17:44] Working alongside Nigerian partners, U.S. forces executed a raid in northeast Nigeria, [17:50] killing the ISIS global director of operations, Bilal al-Muniki, [17:55] and members of his inner circle. [17:57] Muniki will no longer be able to plot against American citizens and interests. [18:01] In conclusion, the Department of War will continue, without wavering, [18:06] to defend and secure the freedom and prosperity of the United States. [18:10] Our posture in the U.S. CENTCOM and U.S. AFRICOM AORs is a coherent and integrated execution of our national defense strategy. [18:18] It is an America-first policy that advances peace through strength. [18:23] Under the direction of President Trump, the Department has demonstrated our commitment and capability to defend the homeland [18:29] and secure American priorities abroad, while encouraging our allies and partners to increasingly shoulder responsibility on mutual security interests. [18:39] The Department is confident in this strategy, in our exceptional service members, and in our ability to defend the United States. [18:47] Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. [18:49] Thank you, Mr. Zimmerman. [18:50] Admiral Cooper, you're recognized. [18:52] Well, good morning, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, members of the committee. [18:57] Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today, and thanks especially to the committee for your steadfast support to the U.S. Military and U.S. Central Command. [19:06] I'm pleased to join today with Commander of U.S. Africa Command, my good friend, General Dag Anderson, and Assistant Secretary Dan Zimmerman. [19:13] I'm grateful to be accompanied by my wife, Susan, representing the families of the more than 50,000 service members deployed in the Middle East. [19:21] I'm also pleased to be joined by Fleet Command Master Chief Lateef Compton, the senior enlisted leader of CENTCOM. [19:27] Recent events in the Central Region show how quickly the course of history can change. [19:33] Decades-old features of the strategic landscape believed immutable have been upended, bringing both challenges and opportunities. [19:41] I strongly believe that every success that we have starts and ends with our people. [19:46] In just the last seven months, America's sons and daughters serving in CENTCOM have played key roles in implementing the President's 20-point peace plan for Gaza, [19:55] degrading the ISIS threat in Syria, preventing an ISIS crisis by conducting a historic transfer of over 5,700 ISIS prisoners from Syria to Iraq, [20:05] creating the most integrated and effective regional air defense architecture ever seen, which was decades in the making, [20:11] and most recently addressing the rapidly accelerating Iranian threat. [20:14] U.S. Central Command was created in direct response to the threats posed by the Islamic Republic of Iran, [20:21] and I'm the 16th CENTCOM commander to deal with the Iranian problem set. [20:26] For 47 years, the Iranian regime terrorized the region and made hostility to the United States a core tenet of its rule. [20:35] The regime is an even more deadly threat to its own people, killing tens of thousands of innocent Iranians during protests in January, with public executions ongoing. [20:44] Iran has long had three pillars of intimidation and coercion. [20:49] Their nuclear program, their ballistic missiles and drones, and their proxies, especially Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthis. [20:57] Let's look at each of these. [20:59] First, all signs pointed to Iran's intent to create a nuclear weapon capability. [21:03] And then to protect their nuclear program, Iran built thousands of ballistic missiles and drones, and they did it for two reasons. [21:12] To create a shield to make their nuclear sight untouchable, and to create an offensive capability so large that regional partners couldn't possibly defend against it. [21:22] Along the way, their proxies did Iran's dirty work across the region. [21:26] Prior to the start of Epic Fury, Iranian-supported terror groups attacked U.S. troops and diplomats more than 350 times in the previous two and a half years, killing four U.S. service members and wounding nearly 200 others. [21:41] To directly counter this accelerating Iranian strategy that we all saw, the U.S. military was directed by the President to execute two significant operations. [21:51] And here are the results. [21:52] First, Operation Midnight Hammer significantly degraded Iran's nuclear program. [21:57] And second, Operation Epic Fury significantly degraded Iran's ballistic missiles and drones, while destroying 90 percent of their defense industrial base, ensuring that Iran cannot reconstitute for years. [22:09] And then finally, Iran spent decades and billions of dollars arming proxies. [22:14] Today, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis are cut off from Iran's weapons supply and support. [22:21] Said a different way, American military action derailed Iran's strategy that was 47 years in the making. [22:29] So where are we now? [22:31] The ceasefire continues, and consistent with the President's direction, we've established a highly effective maritime blockade of Iran. [22:37] To date, we've turned away 88 ships. [22:40] There has been zero trade into Iranian ports and zero trade out of Iranian ports, squeezing Iran economically and creating powerful leverage for the ongoing negotiations. [22:50] Of course, these results were not without cost. [22:53] We honor the memories of the 14 service members who made the ultimate sacrifice during Operation Epic Fury and two soldiers and a civilian killed in Palmyra, Syria. [23:02] They represent the very best among all of us. [23:05] But before I close, I want to make clear, we are committed to the law of armed conflict. [23:10] The United States does not target civilians. [23:13] We take all civilian casualty reports seriously. [23:16] This is now part of our culture. [23:18] And I invite each and every one of you, as well as all of your staffs, to visit Tampa and see our targeting process for yourselves. [23:25] As I sit here, we're clear-eyed. [23:28] The situation in front of us is complex. [23:30] High-stakes negotiations continue. [23:32] Our job is to be ready, and we are. [23:35] I testify today on behalf of the brave servicemen and women deployed to the central region. [23:40] It's a great life honor and privilege to serve as our commander. [23:44] And thank you, and I look forward to your questions. [23:46] Thank you, Admiral. [23:49] General, you're recognized. [23:51] Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide you an update on U.S. Africa Command. [23:59] I'm joined today by Command Sergeant Major Garrick Banfield, AFRICOM senior enlisted leader. [24:03] And it's an honor for me to be here today with my friend and colleague, Admiral Cooper and the Honorable Dan Zimmerman. [24:09] We all appreciate your unwavering support to our nation's warfighters. [24:13] Before I start, I'd like to recognize the service of First Lieutenant Kendrick Lamont Key Jr. [24:19] and Specialist Mariah Collington, who lost their lives in a tragic accident during African Lion. [24:24] I would also like to thank our allies and partners, particularly Morocco, who stepped forward when it mattered most. [24:30] Today, the epicenter of global terrorism is in Africa. [24:34] ISIS leadership is African. [24:37] Al Qaeda's economic engine is in Africa. [24:41] Both groups share the will and intent to strike our homeland. [24:44] As the president reported this past Friday, AFRICOM, in close coordination with our Nigerian partners, [24:51] dealt a significant blow to ISIS global terror network. [24:54] Our successful mission eliminated several key ISIS leaders to include Abu Bilal al-Manouki, the most active and impactful terrorist in the world. [25:04] He was the ISIS financial and organizational mastermind plotting attacks against the United States and our interests. [25:10] Manouki's death disrupts ISIS operations around the world, but only sustained pressure and multidimensional approach, [25:17] with the support of partners united by mutual security interests, can address this complex problem. [25:23] As its recent operation demonstrates, AFRICOM is prioritizing willing and capable partners. [25:30] We support partners with unique capabilities that only the U.S. can provide, such as ISR, targeting and precision strike. [25:37] This approach has taken ISIS leaders off the battlefield in Nigeria and driven their leadership in Somalia underground, [25:43] putting pressure on the broader ISIS network. [25:45] In West Africa, Al-Qaeda affiliate JNIM has demonstrated increased capacity to control key terrain in the Sahel, [25:52] most notably by strangling fuel supplies around population centers. [25:56] The capture of a capital city would provide Al-Qaeda with all the trappings of a nation-state to sponsor global terrorism. [26:03] With a 75% reduction in our regional posture over the past decade, compounded by the drawdown of our allies, [26:10] we struggle with an intelligence black hole. [26:12] Without sufficient indicators and warnings, we risk being blind to the gathering dangers and threats of the region. [26:17] AFRICOM's lack of expeditionary capabilities and diminished force posture compromises our crisis response. [26:24] In a crisis, we can surge assets, but you cannot surge trust. [26:28] Our reduced presence on the continent also allows disruptive actors to drive the agenda and undercut American interests. [26:36] China views Africa as its second continent, securing control over critical minerals and infrastructure, [26:42] potentially boxing us out of the resources that energize our industrial base. [26:46] Africa also serves as Putin's purse, where Russia exploits instability to extract resources, including human lives, to fuel its war machine. [26:55] To contend with these threats, AFRICOM must think and operate differently. [27:00] With less than one-tenth of one percent of the department's budget, we must maximize every taxpayer dollar to deliver an outsized return on investment. [27:07] AFRICOM continues to leverage low-cost, high-yield activities to amplify our impact on the continent. [27:14] International military education and training and the state partnership program are reliable force multipliers, [27:20] forging partnerships with African militaries and demonstrating cost-effective burden-sharing. [27:24] The AFRICOM exercise program is emerging as a battle lab to test and validate new technologies on behalf of both the joint force and our African partners. [27:33] Finally, Africa sits at the crossroads of global commerce and security, bridging strategic terrain between the Atlantic and the Indo-Pacific. [27:41] It is the world's supplier of critical minerals for advanced defense systems and home to 12 of the 20 fastest-growing economies. [27:48] By 2050, it will account for a third of the global working-age population. [27:54] AFRICOM is increasingly focused on this critical convergence of economy and security and stability. [27:59] Our efforts span all elements of national power, and we coordinate closely with state, commerce, energy, and treasury. [28:07] The department's new economic defense unit has been an invaluable partner. [28:10] To defend the homeland, promote U.S. interests, and ensure effective crisis response, [28:16] AFRICOM needs targeted investments in layered non-traditional ISR, innovative force protection, [28:23] programs that enable willing and capable partners, the opportunity to expand experimentation, [28:29] and the ability to respond to crisis at the time and point of need. [28:33] Africa is a continent of opportunities, not only crises. [28:37] With the continued support of this committee, I can assure you that every dollar you authorize for AFRICOM [28:42] will contribute directly to the security, safety, and prosperity of the United States. [28:47] Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. [28:49] Thank you, General. [28:50] Thank you all of our witnesses for being here in those testimonies. [28:54] That's very helpful to us. [28:56] I recognize myself for questions. [28:58] Admiral Cooper, you have spent the last six years in either senior leadership or command positions in the Middle East. [29:05] In your expert opinion, was there any time over the last 40 years that the Iranian regime posed a greater threat to the United States, [29:16] Israel, and our allies in the region before Midnight Hammer and Epic Fury? [29:21] No, sir. [29:22] So are they less capable today than they were before those exercises? [29:28] They are significantly less capable today than they were before the two major operations. [29:32] And what would a nuclear-armed Iran mean for our partners in the Middle East and our presence there? [29:37] Well, clearly the president has stated Iran will not be nuclear-armed. [29:41] It would obviously represent a very highly destabilizing element into the region and have global impact. [29:48] So basically, we're safer, our country is safer, and our allies in the region are safer because of what our president has done in Iran over the last couple of months. [29:57] We are unquestionably safer as a result of U.S. military actions. [30:00] Thank you. [30:01] General Anderson, the operation that eliminated the global ISIS second-in-command over the weekend demonstrated the growing terrorist threat in your AOR, but also the value of the partnerships that we have there. [30:14] How are you strengthening the partnerships in your AOR going forward to make sure that that threat doesn't make it to our homeland? [30:23] Chairman, that's an incredibly important point because we cannot operate there and respond to these crises or these threats without the access, basing, and overflight that is dependent upon the relationships with these partners. [30:36] So we are investing a significant amount of effort in order to build those relationships and build that credibility. [30:42] The operation over the weekend built a lot of that credibility of what the U.S. can bring and that those unique capabilities can be brought to bear in conjunction with our partners. [30:51] The Nigerians have been instrumental throughout the last several months developing the target, helping us with the intelligence, and providing support in order to do that. [30:59] So it could not have been done by our own forces that we needed to do that in conjunction with them. [31:05] We are using that to leverage that to engage with other nations such as those in the Sahel where the terrorist threat continues to grow to try to open that dialogue so we can address this mutual threat. [31:15] Is there anything in particular that this committee could do to be helpful to you in developing partnerships that can benefit us in the future? [31:24] Yes, sir. I think some key investments in some of the expeditionary capabilities such as a float forward staging base, expeditionary ISR is critical to that. [31:33] Support for continued engagement with small teams such as our special operations teams or small conventional trainers goes a long way. [31:41] And then the last one I would say that is not as much in the military realm, but where we see the security convergence and intersection with economics is encouraging investment and development in Africa [31:52] that allows for that stability to continue to develop because security depends upon stability that allows investment and that leads to prosperity and that eventually helps protect the United States in the long run. [32:05] So while not directly our role, we can help identify those areas where those investments have security implications. [32:11] Yeah. Well, I do think it's important when we talk about our role there that we make it clear to the larger universe of members of Congress that we do need to be building partnerships in the African continent. [32:24] And we don't need to be tying that to them changing their cultural values necessarily. [32:30] We need partnerships. And whether we like it or not, China and Russia and Iran are all down there building partnerships. [32:38] And they're not judging these people based on their cultural values. So it's something I think we can learn from. [32:43] With that, I would go to the ranking member for any questions he may have. [32:46] Thank you. Admiral Cooper, you mentioned your opening remarks, the commitment of your command to preventing civilian harm. [32:53] So just two questions about that. One, it's been 80 days thereabouts since the initial bombing campaign that struck the girls' school in Iran. [33:05] Tehran killed, I think, over 150 schoolgirls. It's really pretty clear what happened there. [33:11] But 80 days on, we have not taken responsibility for that attack. The endless stalling that's being investigated, it's being investigated, it's being investigated. [33:21] In the past, when we've had these types of mistakes, they have been quickly acknowledged, even if a further investigation is necessary to figure out prevention methods. [33:30] So can you at this moment acknowledge that that mistake was made and that we were responsible for it? [33:36] It's something we didn't want to do and don't want to repeat? [33:39] Congressman, to reiterate, the United States does not deliberately target civilians. [33:46] Got that part. Period. [33:48] I mean, full stop. Nor are the Iranian people our enemy. The IRGC is the adversary in this case. [33:54] I heard that in your opening statement, Admiral. I asked you a very specific question, and I'm curious what the answer is. [33:59] So the investigation is ongoing. As soon as it is complete, I'm happy to be as in return as possible. [34:04] So that's a note. We will not take responsibility for something we very obviously did. [34:08] Sir, it's a complex investigation. The school itself is located on an active IRGC cruise missile base. [34:14] Absolutely. [34:15] It's more complex than the average strike. [34:17] Absolutely. [34:18] As soon as we're complete, I'm fully committed to transparency, given your important oversight role and the other members here. [34:23] Just so you know, and I have an enormous amount of respect for you and an enormous amount of respect for the Pentagon. [34:28] I do not trust that answer. What we've seen out of the Secretary of Defense and his callous disregard for any sort of rules of engagement or protecting civilian life may make us suspicious. [34:40] And that's the only second question I have for you. Do you think it's ever appropriate for anybody in a leadership position to use the words no quarter when describing how we are conducting our operations in Iran? [34:52] Sir, I think it's appropriate as military leaders. We follow the law of armed conflict and our constitutional responsibilities, and that's what we've done. [35:00] And you would agree that no quarter is not following the law? [35:03] I would agree it's our constitutional responsibility to follow the law. [35:07] Is no quarter following the law or not? [35:09] I would agree that we follow the law, sir. [35:13] But you're not going to get specific about it. [35:15] You're just going to have a general, generic understanding of it, and they do whatever we want to do with no accountability. [35:23] Look, people make mistakes. It's in a war. Things happen. I get that, okay? [35:27] And I'm not going to be as overly judgmental as some. [35:30] But that the arrogance of this Pentagon and their unwillingness to acknowledge any mistake is precisely the reason that we are in the hole that we're in with no way out of. [35:40] Somebody in that command needs to own up to the dumb things that are said and done to give us some confidence that they won't keep happening. [35:50] Mr. Zimmerman, can you explain to me how it works, why it is considered to be intelligent for the president day after day after day to keep saying that Iran has agreed to things that very clearly they have not agreed to, which then becomes obvious to the entire world within some 24 to 48 hour time period. [36:12] Help me out here. What is the strategy of the president standing up and saying, we have defeated them. The war is over. They've agreed to everything. [36:20] I mean, doesn't that just make us look like a bunch of clowns past a certain point when it becomes obvious that that's not the case? [36:27] Congressman, the president's willingness to act decisively to protect Americans and our partners and allies has advanced U.S. credibility. It has not sunk U.S. credibility. [36:40] Well, but addressing this specific issue, we could have that debate in a different direction. [36:45] But he has repeatedly said that Iran has agreed to things that they obviously have not agreed to. [36:52] And let me ask the question this way. Is the president misinformed? Are people doing a bad job of informing him about what's going on? [37:00] Is he that ignorant about the circumstances or is he just making it up as part of some, I don't know, six dimensional stress? [37:08] Sorry, chess strategy here. So why? [37:12] The president has the best information available to any head of state. [37:16] Why does he keep getting it wrong then? [37:18] The president does not keep getting it wrong. The White House is leading these negotiations to find a long term solution. [37:27] I'm sorry, we have 20 seconds left here. But he doesn't keep getting it wrong. He says, literally, the strait is open. [37:35] Iran has agreed to give up their nuclear weapons. Iran has agreed to give up their ballistic missile programs. [37:40] That's your basic question. Is the strait of Hormuz open? Has Iran given up their nuclear weapons? [37:45] The strait of Hormuz is a complex situation right now where you have a severely degraded foe. [37:52] Look, I hope you look back at this and understand how bad this is making you look. [37:58] I mean, look, you can answer the question, you can challenge me in a thousand different ways. [38:02] But to just pretend that reality isn't reality and say it over and over again in a public hearing, I'm sorry, that's not helping our credibility. [38:10] Thank you for the indulgence, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. [38:12] The chair now recognizes a gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson. [38:16] Thank you, Chairman Mike Rogers for your correct assessment that the American military is unmatched professionalism as we see with the three witnesses today. [38:26] How reassuring for the American people and how a deterrence it is to the enemies we have around the world. [38:31] I've never been more appreciative of the American military than I am today. [38:36] As a 31-year veteran myself, I'm really grateful that I've had four sons serve in Iraq, Egypt, Afghanistan to see the success. [38:45] And dictators are on the run. It began with dictator Assad in Syria. [38:51] And he actually an honor. He declared me an enemy of the state November a year ago. [38:58] And then with President Trump's election, he fled to Moscow. [39:02] And now President Trump is giving Syria a chance. The dictator is gone. [39:06] And then I'm really grateful that the dictatorship in Venezuela has been removed. [39:11] Again, what extraordinary success. I was really grateful to have the opportunity to let President Trump know [39:17] how much the American military, American citizens appreciate that he showed that the Russian anti-aircraft capability is not very good, [39:25] Chinese radar fails, and Cuban mercenaries are expendable. [39:29] And then you get to the ultimate, and it just should not be misunderstood historically, [39:34] the elimination of Khomeini and his leadership. [39:39] In world history, I'm not aware of any conflict begun where in the first minute the leadership, dictatorship, was eliminated. [39:47] And how deserving, because he had just murdered 40,000 of his own citizens. [39:51] And so he deserved what came his way, despite the sympathy of the American media that we should have given notice. [39:58] With that in mind, too, around the world, from operations in the Western Hemisphere against narco-terrorists [40:05] to decisive action against the Iranian regime through Operation Epic Fury to the continued efforts against terrorists [40:12] and malign actors across Africa and the Middle East, our service members have demonstrated extraordinary courage, [40:19] precision, and unmatched professionalism. [40:22] As we confront Iran and its puppets who have attacked and murdered the Israelis, [40:29] and the terrorist organizations, and war criminal Putin, who wants to resurrect the Soviet Union, [40:34] the failed Soviet Union, annexing Belarus, leaving troops in Moldova, [40:39] invading Georgia, rigging elections in the Republic of Georgia, [40:44] where the correct president, a legitimate president, is Solomay George Svetfili, [40:49] and then, of course, the invasion of Ukraine with tens of thousands of people who have lost their lives. [40:56] With that in mind, the growing influence of the Chinese Communist Party, [41:00] we need to assure that the Central Command and Africa Command have the posture, partnerships, [41:05] and capabilities needed to defend the homeland, protect our allies, and achieve peace through strength. [41:11] With that, Admiral Cooper, you have documented really well the success of Operation Epic Fury, [41:18] which has been a devastating flow to the dictatorship in Iran and ability to murder Israelis and Americans. [41:27] In your assessment, has this degraded Iran's ability to generate another October 7th with mass murder of Israeli citizens? [41:36] Congressman, first, thank you for your own service and that of your children. [41:41] We honor them today. [41:43] My assessment from a military perspective is, as we sit here today, [41:47] Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis have been cut off from the decades-long flow of military supplies, [41:54] and thus mitigating and eliminating any chance of a future October 7th based on the circumstances right now. [42:01] I just agree with your assessment, and it's just remarkable the achievements of our military. [42:08] And, Secretary Zimmerman, I appreciate your North Carolina heritage, [42:12] and the Department has promoted partners in both the Middle East and Africa [42:17] to assume more responsibility for their own security. [42:21] How are we achieving this without creating a vacuum against World Colonel Putin or the Chinese Communist Party or the regime in Tehran? [42:29] Thank you, Congressman. [42:33] And as we are working to find operationally independent partners with shared security interests [42:39] who can responsibly take up the security burden alongside us, [42:45] we are very clear-eyed about the threats across the CENTCOM and AFRICOM theater that these adversaries present. [42:54] We have not lost sight of those. [42:57] And indeed, Admiral Cooper, we did have allies come to work with us in Operation Epic Fury. [43:04] Can you identify key allies that were helpful? [43:07] Congressman, most notably, we literally serve side-by-side in this broad Middle East air defense network [43:14] with five Middle East partners, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar. [43:20] Gentlemen's time has expired. [43:21] I recognize the gentleman from Connecticut. [43:23] Mr. Courtney. [43:24] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses. [43:27] Mr. Zimmerman and Admiral Cooper, in your testimony, Admiral, you in page three stated that one of the top priorities of CENTCOM [43:36] is preserving America's advantage and position of strength relative to China. [43:39] Mr. Zimmerman, in page one, you said, secondly, we will deter China in the Indo-Pacific region through strength, not confrontation. [43:48] So the U.S. Navy Naval Institute publishes a weekly ship tracker, which identifies where our surface ships are located around the world today. [44:02] So last night's tracker shows that there are 25 warships that are in the Central Command region. [44:11] Two more minesweepers are apparently on the way to join the fleet. [44:16] So in Indo-Pacific, we have one carrier, the George Washington, which is actually just being fitted out for deployment. [44:23] It's not actually underway with a strike force. [44:26] And we have one ARG-MU amphibious ship with three accompanying vessels. [44:31] That's four. [44:32] That's the total count. [44:33] That's 52 percent of the surface of the Earth is in the Indo-Pacific region. [44:39] And because of this war, we have ships that are home ported in Cusca, Pearl Harbor, that are now situated in Central Command. [44:49] And I guess the question I have for you, Mr. Zimmerman, the national defense strategy states that the U.S. will build and sustain a strong denial defense along the first island chain. [44:58] And, you know, right now I don't know how that's possible given the fact that so many forces, naval forces, have been concentrated in command. [45:09] How is this policy, this war, aligned with our national defense strategy, which identified China as still the number one pacing threat? [45:20] Congressman, we remain fully committed to the priorities as you have outlined them there, including denial defense and deterring China peace. [45:31] With what? [45:32] Congressman, we retain the ability to act decisively when and where we need to around the globe. [45:41] That's all part of the global force management process. [45:44] The Indo-Pacific theater is not part of my theater, so I'll be careful how broadly I speak. [45:50] But rest assured, the department is 100 committed, 100 percent committed to the priorities laid out in the NDS. [45:56] And we retain the ability to act to implement all those priorities. [46:00] Thank you. [46:01] So, Mr. Chairman, I'd just ask that the the USNI tracker, dated May 18th, be admitted to the record, [46:08] which, again, just shows the incredible imbalance that we have right now in terms of the positioning of our fleet. [46:15] I would also note, you know, Mr. Rogers correctly stated how important it is to build up partnerships. [46:21] Right now, you know, we have a terrible energy crisis in this country, which Mr. Smith referred to. [46:26] Eastern Asia is of a totally bigger, more catastrophic magnitude. [46:33] Countries are implementing four day work weeks. [46:36] They're doing rationing because of the fact that not only is the price is not going up, but because they depend on the Strait of Hormuz, [46:44] supplies are actually being run down right now. [46:48] It is not really hard for people to sort of understand who's causing this in terms of countries that we are trying to build partnerships. [46:56] And frankly, I think that is another strategic harm that this war has created in terms of, again, the number one identified defense challenge that we face, [47:08] according to Trump's own defense strategy. [47:11] Admiral Cooper, I have a couple of quick questions for you. [47:14] Is a blockade an act of war? [47:16] So we're executing the blockade today consistent with international armed conflict? [47:22] Well, the international law actually in terms of blockades was established in 1909 at the London Naval Conference, [47:28] which the U.S. participated in and the U.S. Senate actually voted to endorse. [47:33] And it defined blockades as an act of war. [47:36] Blockades don't work unless you have warships there to enforce them. [47:40] So, of course, it's an act of war. [47:42] I mean, and again, that's black letter maritime law, isn't it? [47:46] So I defer to the department as well as the White House and any characterization of how we execute business from a company. [47:51] From my perspective, we execute the orders as given. [47:56] And today, the legal umbrella that we're operating under is international armed conflict. [48:02] Well, it is really, as I said, not even a question of law or facts. [48:07] I mean, if we had a Navy blockading the port of New York and New Jersey, we would treat that as an act of war. [48:13] And the notion that somehow the ceasefire stopped the tolling of the War Powers Act in April when we put a blockade a few days later, which is an act of war, again, fails the legal test, which you don't need to really get intense advice from Office of Legal Counsel. [48:32] I yield back. [48:33] The gentleman's time has expired. [48:34] The chair now recognizes Mr. Turner. [48:38] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [48:39] General Anderson, in your opening portion of your written statement, you say that AFRICOM, we work with our African partners and our allies on collective security. [48:53] You then note that you're facing more demanding challenges with ISIS, al Qaeda, but also disruptive actors like Russia, China and Iran. [49:04] I want to turn to Kenya and Russia. [49:08] I think I believe that Kenya is a strong ally. [49:12] You would agree that Kenya is a strong ally. [49:14] Would you not, General? [49:15] Yes, I would. [49:16] I've been to Kenya. [49:19] I've seen and I'm aware of our collective operations. [49:24] And I was very surprised and very concerned when I saw the New York Times reporting of Kenya's National Intelligence Service report that up to 1,000 Kenyans had been solicited by Russia and had been taken by Russia [49:46] to fight in Ukraine to fight in Ukraine and that they had taken them from Kenya and they'd ended up in the front lines of Ukraine. [49:58] What struck me is not just that there were Russians in Kenya that were operating, but that the enormity of what an operation would be to be able to solicit and obtain and get, convince 1,000 Kenyans to leave Kenya. [50:16] Leave Kenya, go to Russia, end up in Ukraine fighting and the the structure, just the logistics of that and the influence campaign that that is. [50:28] Are you familiar with that report? [50:29] Could you speak about that? [50:30] And really the the the the necessity of us to be able to counter that work and assist the Kenyans encountering Russia in Kenya? [50:40] Yes, Congressman, I agree. [50:42] And it is disturbing how many Africans from across the continent are being recruited by Russia to fight in Ukraine. [50:49] So it's not solely a Kenyan problem to the point in Kenya. [50:52] I agree. [50:53] The concern has been and I think it was highlighted in that New York Times article as well is that it's not been clear that they were recruited to go to Ukraine, often using other reasons to recruit them, whether for work or for other jobs, not necessarily articulating the fact that they end up on the front lines in Ukraine. [51:10] So one of those things that we have done to help counter that is just implement the truth by being able to inform other partners of what's happening has been very powerful. [51:20] But this is not just disinformation them being told what they're going to do and then they're ending up in Ukraine. [51:25] But that there's this infrastructure that that Russia has deployed and a thousand out of Kenya is pretty enormous. [51:33] So you're you're up against a pretty enormous structure that Russia has has deployed within Kenya. [51:42] Russia is using many different means in order to recruit folks from across the continent. [51:49] And you are correct. [51:51] They do have the network in order to bring them back into Russia. [51:57] Thank you. [51:58] Secretary Zimmerman, first off, congratulations on your answers to the ranking member. [52:02] They were excellent in the manner in which you handled those questions. [52:06] The in looking at the admiral's testimony, he indicates that ISIS has been modernized marginalized thanks to the Iraqi security forces and Kurdish [52:19] Kurdish Peshmerga. [52:20] He's he speaks of some of the accomplishments that occurred. [52:24] I'm concerned, though, however, that when you look at the overall funding for counter ISIS training equip funding, what the impact might be for Iraqi Kurdish allies. [52:34] Could you speak for a moment as to our support for the Iraqi Kurdish allies and what this the support might be there? [52:41] Congressman, thank you. [52:44] We we have the greatest appreciation for our Iraqi Kurdish partners. [52:48] There's it's hard to find a more willing, capable group to to work alongside. [52:54] And and we welcome the support funding that Congress has provided to continue that partnership. [53:01] This has become particularly stark. [53:04] And I'll be I'll be maybe more general how I speak here. [53:08] But, you know, Operation Epic Fury has has has has shown that the the Shia militia groups in Iraq have a lot of agency and independence to act in ways that are harmful to the United States, [53:21] which is only showcased how helpful the the Iraqi Kurdish partners are. [53:27] Gentleman yields back. [53:30] The chair now recognizes a gentleman from California, Mr. Garamendi. [53:33] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [53:35] And thank you very much for attending this and your testimony and our appreciation for the hard work and the sacrifices being made by the men and women in our military as they operate in the CENTCOM area. [53:51] Mr. Zimmerman, the administration formally notified Congress on or about May 5th that hostilities against Iran had been terminated. [53:59] Is that correct? [54:00] My understanding is, as you say, that notification went out. [54:06] You have a real difficult time answering questions directly, don't you? [54:12] So if you notify that it was terminated, correct? [54:16] Correct. [54:18] All right. [54:19] Now, Admiral Cooper, have you reduced the state of preparedness for our troops in the region? [54:26] Congressman, consistent with my responsibilities as a combatant commander, I'm prepared to execute a broad range of contingencies. [54:35] Where we sit today, we're executing a blockade and we're prepared for further direction, depending on how negotiations go. [54:41] So the state of preparedness remains at its highest level? [54:48] It does. [54:49] Thank you. [54:50] Are American troops still in harm's way? [54:52] Depending on a variety of contingencies? [54:55] Yes. [54:56] Are American forces defending against Iranian threats? [55:00] When threatened, we always defend ourselves. [55:03] Did CENTCOM fire on Iranian tankers running the blockade on May 6th and 8th? [55:09] We fired on, after going through a series of de-escalation measures to get tankers to stop consistent with the blockade, we disabled those tankers. [55:19] So you did fire on Iranian tankers on May 6th and 8th? [55:24] We disabled them, yes. [55:26] We fired on them. [55:28] Thank you. [55:29] And as a result of the fire, they were effectively disabled. [55:32] Did the U.S. launch strikes against Iranian military strikes sites on May 7th? [55:38] Sir, United States forces in the execution of defensive mission in moving destroyers from the Arabian Gulf back in the Gulf of Oman were fired upon dozens of times. [55:52] We defended ourselves. [55:54] So American forces were fired upon by Iran and you fired back? [55:58] That's exactly right. [55:59] Thank you. [56:00] Is it your military assessment that hostilities have been ceased since April? [56:06] We remain in a ceasefire, yes. [56:08] That's not my question. [56:09] My question was military assessment that hostilities have ceased since April. [56:16] My military assessment is the ceasefire has set the foundation for military hostilities to cease. [56:21] Iran pushes it. [56:24] So the hostilities have continued. [56:26] Well, Iran clearly attacked our ships, as you described, dozens of times. [56:30] Yes, sir. [56:31] I'm really very, very sorry for the two of you. [56:35] You just cannot answer a question correctly and directly, but you're doing the best you can. [56:40] It's incredible to me that this department has such disregard for the Congress and the U.S. Constitution that the U.S. military forces are not still engaged in hostilities and still deployed against the war and ignoring the War Powers Act and the Constitution. [57:00] I'm going to let it go at that. [57:01] The fact of the matter is that hostilities continue. [57:04] And I would like to enter into the record, Mr. Chairman, 10 different press releases from the Department of Defense that specifically discuss the continued hostilities. [57:18] I'd like now to turn to Africa. [57:21] General Anderson, you indicated a 75 percent reduction of military support in Africa. [57:29] Is that correct from your testimony? [57:31] In the posture in West Africa, yes, sir. [57:34] Is USAID a critical element in the African strategy going forward? [57:40] Sir, there is a role for targeted aid that supports security and stability that is part of the many tools that the government uses across Africa. [57:49] Is USAID available to do that? [57:51] It doesn't exist, does it? [57:54] It does not exist today, sir, no. [57:56] And is there a famine in Sudan? [58:02] Conditions are becoming quite dire in Sudan when it comes to food support. [58:06] The fact of the matter is that the U.S. military – question to you. [58:13] Can the U.S. military carry out its activities in Africa without the kind of support that USAID was providing to the African people and African economies and communities? [58:28] Sir, the military is still able to continue its execution of military objectives and military activities on the continent? [58:34] The gentleman's time has expired. [58:39] The chair now recognizes himself for some questions. [58:43] And, gentlemen, thanks again for joining us today. [58:45] Admiral Cooper, I want to begin with you and get your perspective on the Iranian regime's attacks against civilian targets both in the Gulf region and neighbors in the entire vicinity. [58:56] We know historically they've used proxies – proxies like Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis – to maim, torture, and kill innocent civilians, including Americans. [59:07] We know that now the regime has blood directly on their hands and things that they've done most recently. [59:12] We've seen that. [59:14] It's pretty alarming as to how they are escalating things within that realm. [59:18] To me, it's pretty clear that the destabilizing force in the Middle East is Iran, and they intend to continue that. [59:26] There's also very distinct differences between how the United States operates and how Iran operates in this time of conflict in that region. [59:36] I wanted, though, to rewind a little bit and go back to where things started, and that was last December, and get your perspective on how you were monitoring the anti-regime protests and efforts there in Iran. [59:50] What was your assessment of that? [59:52] What did you find and what did you see? [59:54] And then how many civilians do you assess were killed or hurt in those counter efforts by the government against its civilians? [1:00:03] Congressman, we'd assess that number to be in the tens of thousands of civilians killed by the regime. [1:00:08] And what was your assessment when you evaluated that back in December as far as what the Iranian government was doing against its civilians? [1:00:16] As things started in December, you could – at the infancy of protests, you could be – you could see Iran initially, the regime initially addressing this in the teens and low hundreds, [1:00:31] and eventually evolved by January into the killing of tens of thousands. [1:00:35] Okay. [1:00:37] Very good. [1:00:38] Let me ask, too, since the conflict has begun, how many drones and missiles has Iran launched? [1:00:42] And how many of those have targeted civilian sites? [1:00:46] And can you give us some examples of the civilian targets that have been struck by those drones and missiles? [1:00:51] Yeah, Congressman, I think the specific number of drones and missiles are best addressed in a classified form, which follows this – I'll talk about there. [1:00:58] But what I can say here is Iran deliberately – [1:01:01] Can you give us orders of magnitude, hundreds, thousands? [1:01:03] Thousands. [1:01:04] Okay. [1:01:05] What I can say here is Iran deliberately targeted civilians in the Middle East at least a thousand times. [1:01:10] We've seen many of this play out on TV – restaurants in Bahrain, restaurants in neighborhoods in UAE, the same thing in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. [1:01:19] We saw before our very eyes on TV – you saw it yourself – cluster munitions going off over Tel Aviv, [1:01:27] targeting civilians. [1:01:28] It was crystal clear. [1:01:29] How many civilians do you estimate have been killed or casualties, we'll call them, in general, [1:01:35] which includes killed and injured, by these attacks since combat operations have begun? [1:01:41] At least 300 killed and injured, sir. [1:01:43] Okay. [1:01:44] Very good. [1:01:45] Do you believe that the regime's attacks on civilian targets are indiscriminate? [1:01:49] Are they focused? [1:01:50] Are they purposeful? [1:01:52] Do you see a commonality in the things that they're doing in defining these targets and going after them? [1:02:00] The thousand attacks were deliberate. [1:02:03] Okay. [1:02:04] Was there any rhyme or reason that you saw behind what Iran was doing and who they were targeting? [1:02:10] Was there any purpose behind that or was it just indiscriminate? [1:02:13] I see. [1:02:14] I think you saw a terror regime executing terror-like attacks, living up to their billing more than [1:02:20] a thousand times. [1:02:21] The only rhyme or reason and consistency was against innocent civilians. [1:02:25] Gotcha. [1:02:26] Let me ask this. [1:02:29] You bring up innocent civilians, and that, I think, is a critical point here. [1:02:33] You know, the regime kind of talks both ways. [1:02:36] It talks about wanting to settle things and wanting to bring their country back to a stable state. [1:02:44] Yet, with them indiscriminately targeting innocent human lives, the regime seems not to have any regard for innocent civilians [1:02:52] and is wanting to continue its theocracy there. [1:02:55] Give me your perspective about where you think the regime has been when all this began back in December and where it is today. [1:03:02] Has that place in their mindset changed based on this, or are they still on the path of indiscriminately targeting civilians? [1:03:10] They remain on the same path, Congressman. [1:03:12] We saw them kill tens of thousands of their own people, and since the ceasefire, we've seen them hang dozens of people. [1:03:19] Just yesterday, you saw the chief of police proudly announce that they arrested 6,500 Iranians for no reason. [1:03:26] So, none of this has changed within the regime. [1:03:29] They're still trying to suppress their own people, still trying to have that iron fist on their population there to keep them under control, regardless of what happens elsewhere. [1:03:39] I completely agree. [1:03:40] Very good. [1:03:41] With that, I'd yield back. [1:03:43] And now we'll go to Mr. Norcross. [1:03:45] Thank you, Chairman. [1:03:46] I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming here today. [1:03:49] Much discussion about the most relevant issue here. [1:03:54] That's the war in Iran and the reason why we're there, or the reason listed. [1:03:59] But I think we all can agree that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. [1:04:03] That is, almost at every beginning of a statement, the first thing we talk about. [1:04:10] And certainly, we understand that. [1:04:13] So, Admiral Cooper, in your testimony, pages six and seven, you outline the assets that SETCOM has destroyed in Iran. [1:04:21] Your assessments that we have destroyed approximately 85% of the ballistic missiles, drones, and naval industrial base. [1:04:29] Preventing their ability to execute operations, stunt their ability to reconstitute their force. [1:04:37] Despite that assessment of degraded capabilities, what wasn't happening prior to this war is now happening. [1:04:47] And that's the Strait of Hormuz being closed. [1:04:51] Can you give us the difference between that assessment, which you laid out to us, and how the straits are now closed? [1:05:01] Congressman, thank you very much for that. [1:05:03] I think these are two separate matters. [1:05:05] There is a linkage that I'd like to discuss in a closed forum, for sure. [1:05:10] With respect to their conventional capability, if I zoom out directly to the ranking member's point, [1:05:16] from a military strategy perspective, we absolutely derailed decades of what Iran was trying to achieve [1:05:23] with their ballistic missiles, their nuclear program, and the proxies. [1:05:27] That's one piece of it. [1:05:29] I think equally important is their ability to build and reconstitute. [1:05:35] That's been eliminated. [1:05:36] This will not – that part's been eliminated. [1:05:39] I understand. [1:05:40] On the Strait of Hormuz itself, sir, to your question, I think there's several important factors here. [1:05:45] The blockade itself, which we are controlling, nothing is going in or going out. [1:05:50] On the Strait, there are a lot of – it's a complex environment. [1:05:53] The Chairman and the Joint Chiefs characterized it this way. [1:05:55] Iran's capability is significantly degraded. [1:05:59] Their voice is very loud. [1:06:01] So why is it closed? [1:06:03] As we sit here today, there are low volumes of ships that are going in and out. [1:06:08] Factors – we had two U.S. flagships go out just last week. [1:06:13] If you look at your gas prices, nobody's thinking that Strait of Hormuz is open. [1:06:18] That is the real measure that we go with. [1:06:22] But let me go on. [1:06:23] Excuse me. [1:06:24] In the wake of Operation Midnight Hammer, Congress, House Armed Services Committee, [1:06:30] and most importantly, American people were assured that Iran's nuclear capabilities in their mouth were completely destroyed. [1:06:40] The President's own words, completely and totally obliterated. [1:06:44] This assessment was why that operation was done. [1:06:49] If it is completely destroyed, how is it that the issue of a nuclear weapon is still the number one focus and we're not addressing that? [1:07:02] Congressman, I think anything regarding the Iranian nuclear program is best placed in a – [1:07:06] Well, these are words that the President has used. [1:07:09] So if it has been destroyed, why are we in this war? [1:07:13] Because destroyed means it's not coming back. [1:07:18] Your actual publications talk about the term destroyed, that it cannot be reused. [1:07:24] It is completely useless. [1:07:26] So if it has been destroyed, why is a nuclear weapon the number one issue? [1:07:31] Again, sir, I think anything regarding Iranian nuclear weapons capability is best discussed in a classified form, [1:07:36] and I'm happy to talk about it. [1:07:38] So I have to assume by that statement that either, A, it has not been completely destroyed, [1:07:46] and that's why we have to go back in a classified, and I get that. [1:07:51] Because if it was, we wouldn't be at war with that I'll yield back. [1:07:55] The gentleman yields back. [1:07:58] The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott, is now recognized. [1:08:00] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:08:02] And I'm going to read this just for the benefit of the American citizens and others that are watching. [1:08:06] This is from Dan Zimmerman's testimony. [1:08:12] The center of Islamic terrorism has shifted from the Middle East to Africa. [1:08:16] There's another statement in here that says Islamic terrorists in Africa are both capable and intent of striking the U.S. homeland. [1:08:24] Is that correct, Mr. Zimmerman? [1:08:25] Correct. [1:08:27] General Anderson, your statement, terrorism remains the most acute threat in Africa. [1:08:34] U.S. AFRICOM's area of responsibility has become the center of gravity for global jihadism, [1:08:38] with West Africa accounting for over 51 percent of global terror-related deaths in 2024. [1:08:43] ISIS, ISIS West Africa, JNIM, Al Qaeda, pretty powerful paragraph written there that I hope some people will take part to. [1:08:58] What can AFRICOM, as you know, I spent a fair amount of time on the continent between this committee and another one, [1:09:07] not do today that it could do five years ago? [1:09:10] And what is being done to correct that? [1:09:13] Congressman, I think the best example I can give is that five years ago when I was commander of Special Operations Command Africa, [1:09:22] we rescued American hostage Phillip White in 96 hours, largely because we had access, placement, and relationships. [1:09:29] Today, Kevin Rideout is on day 209 of his captivity because we do no longer have the same level of relationships and access that we had before. [1:09:41] We are working to rebuild that access and engage with those folks in those different countries to address the common threat. [1:09:48] So, we lost Air Base 101 and 201. [1:09:51] That did tremendous damage to our ISR cover. [1:09:54] I went to Niger. I spoke with, I know, Minister Tumba and several others. [1:10:00] And what was relayed to me is that they didn't appreciate the lecture that they got from Secretary Fay and Dr. Wallander at that time. [1:10:11] And that is why we were asked to leave Niger, is that because we did not respect the sovereignty of that country under the previous administration. [1:10:23] Is that your understanding? [1:10:27] Congressman, I can't speak to that exact meeting. [1:10:29] I can address that sovereignty is a very important aspect to all African countries. [1:10:34] It was made very clear to me that when the United States was a guest in a country that we did not need to think that we could come into a conference room in a leadership circle [1:10:49] and lecture them about what we would and would not do in their country. [1:10:54] And I'm concerned about the loss of the relationships that occurred because of the arrogance and the lecturing that occurred many years ago. [1:11:06] And I do think Secretary Rubio is trying to regain that credibility with those countries. [1:11:11] I was in Burkina Faso not too long ago. [1:11:13] The leadership in that country was very pointed. [1:11:17] They won't trade, not aid, which I think is where the administration is headed. [1:11:22] And that they had just expelled the French and they were not going to trade one master for another master, [1:11:28] is literally word for word what the way it was put to me from the leadership of Burkina Faso. [1:11:35] Is that consistent with what you hear? [1:11:38] They are not going to trade one master for another? [1:11:40] Congressman, that is consistent with what I hear across the region. [1:11:44] So with the loss of access in Niger and the growing Russian influence in the Sahel, [1:11:50] what are the most urgent basing and overflight gaps? [1:11:53] And what authorities or resources do you need to restore operational reach? [1:11:57] Congressman, the biggest concern I have is the growing black hole of intelligence in the Sahel. [1:12:03] With the withdrawal of the French and much of the European partners, as you mentioned, our withdrawal from Niger, [1:12:08] it is very difficult for us to provide adequate INW. [1:12:12] So what we are looking at is investments in non-traditional ISR capabilities, [1:12:16] as well as traditional intelligence surveillance in order to layer these. [1:12:21] And that includes open source as well as exquisite. [1:12:23] And so building that network in order to illuminate what's happening in the Sahel is our top priority. [1:12:29] General Anderson, in my last three seconds, I want to read one other sentence from your statement. [1:12:34] The PRC sees Africa as their second continent and critical to their economic and military future. [1:12:40] We as Americans need the relationships with the continent of Africa. [1:12:46] The critical minerals as well as the ability to fight terrorism is contingent upon our relationships over there. [1:12:54] I have tremendous faith in you, General Anderson, and I look forward to working with you to restore that access. [1:12:58] I yield. [1:13:01] Chair and I recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Moulton. [1:13:04] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [1:13:07] Admiral Cooper, you keep using the term significantly degraded. [1:13:16] Last summer, we were told that Iran's nuclear weapons program was obliterated. [1:13:22] Can you clarify the distinction between obliterated and significantly degraded? [1:13:30] Congressman, again, I think appropriate to talk about anything regarding the Iranian nuclear program. [1:13:34] No, no, no, I'm not asking you to talk about the Iran nuclear program. [1:13:37] I'm asking you to talk about English language. [1:13:39] What's the difference between obliterated and significantly degraded? [1:13:42] Are they the same? [1:13:43] Congressman, anything regarding the nuclear program. [1:13:48] I'm not asking you to talk about the nuclear program, Admiral. [1:13:50] I'm asking you to answer a question that applies to a lot of things beyond the nuclear program. [1:13:54] You've also said that their ballistic missile program was significantly degraded. [1:13:58] What does that mean? [1:13:59] The specific numbers are best, as you know from your own military experience. [1:14:02] President Trump's own national security strategy, which he signed in December five months ago, used the exact same phrase, significantly degraded. [1:14:10] So if this was true back then, five months ago, then why did we start this war? [1:14:15] Was he lying to us then? [1:14:18] Congressman, from a military perspective, anything regarding the nuclear program. [1:14:25] Admiral, are you familiar with General Westmoreland? [1:14:28] I'm very familiar, Congressman. [1:14:30] He's well known for talking about body counts. [1:14:32] Now, when I think about you and this war, I always think about how you always got up there and would say everything's going according to plan. [1:14:40] So let me just ask, Admiral, where was closing the strait in the plan? [1:14:46] I'm happy to discuss the specific operational aspects. [1:14:50] But did you just not anticipate that? [1:14:52] Do you not think that Iran could do that? [1:14:54] Or was that part of the plan here? [1:14:57] Congressman, as the... [1:14:58] For 250 years, the Navy has kept sea lanes open and free. [1:15:02] Under every previous president, the Strait of Hormuz has been open. [1:15:06] So why is it closed under your watch? [1:15:08] Congressman, I've traveled through the Strait of Hormuz probably a hundred times. [1:15:12] I'm intimately familiar with it. [1:15:14] As a combatant commander, I lay out... [1:15:15] But why is it closed? [1:15:16] If you're so familiar with it, did you not anticipate that Iran might... [1:15:18] If I may ask, if I may answer the question, if I may ask with respect, with kind... [1:15:22] With all due respect, my responsibility as a combatant commander is to lay out all the options, [1:15:27] present those to the secretary and the president. [1:15:29] They make policy-level decisions. [1:15:31] So you presented the option... [1:15:32] The operational... [1:15:33] The operational aspect... [1:15:34] So, Admiral, you presented the... [1:15:35] You presented the reality that Iran might close the Strait to the president and the Secretary [1:15:40] of Defense. [1:15:42] Anything that I discuss with respect to... [1:15:44] Okay, well, let's go back to the plan. [1:15:46] Where was begging China for help opening the Strait part of the plan? [1:15:49] So from a military perspective? [1:15:55] There are multiple reports now public that Iran has already reconstituted many of its bombed-out missile sites. [1:16:01] Was that part of the plan, too? [1:16:02] Those reports are inaccurate. [1:16:04] Okay. [1:16:06] I will actually give you credit for regime change. [1:16:09] I know that was part of the plan. [1:16:10] You've replaced an 86-year-old in failing health with a fought while against producing nuclear weapons. [1:16:16] With a more hard-line guy in his 50s, who in case he wasn't hard-line enough, you killed his immediate family. [1:16:21] Was that part of the plan? [1:16:24] Is that the regime change you wanted? [1:16:26] Congressman, we were given very specific military objectives to degrade Iran's power projection capability. [1:16:31] That's exactly what we did. [1:16:33] Okay, so in the course of doing that, you also lifted the oil sanctions on Iran, giving them about 14 to 16 billion dollars. [1:16:42] They can buy a lot of ballistic missiles for that. [1:16:45] Was that part of the plan? [1:16:47] Lifting oil sanctions on them in the course of the conflict? [1:16:50] They killed 14 Americans, we lift oil sanctions on them? [1:16:53] As you know, sir, the U.S. military does not lift sanctions. [1:16:57] That's a policy decision. [1:16:58] Okay, I'm just trying to figure out where it was part of the plan. [1:17:01] On March 5th, you talked about how you built the most integrated air defense system in the Middle East. [1:17:10] And yet, well into the war, you had to ask Ukraine for help with defenses against drones. [1:17:15] That's not accurate. [1:17:16] Okay. [1:17:17] What about oil prices, gas prices? [1:17:20] Was oil prices going up 56% part of the plan? [1:17:24] Congressman, as you know, from a military perspective, we don't deal on oil and gas prices. [1:17:30] I defer to the appropriate authorities within the government. [1:17:32] Okay, so since none of this seems to be part of the plan, what's the plan now? [1:17:36] What's the plan now to actually win this war? [1:17:39] Because it feels like we're losing. [1:17:40] We don't have a nuclear deal. [1:17:42] We don't have the strait open. [1:17:45] The President has called for unconditional surrender. [1:17:48] Is that part of the plan? [1:17:49] Congressman, we achieved all our military objectives. [1:17:51] We're presently in a ceasefire. [1:17:53] We're executing a blockade. [1:17:55] And we're prepared for a broad range of contingencies. [1:17:57] Well, it doesn't seem to be going well. [1:17:58] And I would like to know how many more Americans we have to ask to die for this mistake. [1:18:02] Do you know? [1:18:03] I think it's an entirely inappropriate statement from you, sir. [1:18:07] With all due respect. [1:18:08] With all due respect. [1:18:09] With all due respect. [1:18:10] It's not a statement. [1:18:11] It's a question. [1:18:12] With all due respect. [1:18:13] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:18:15] Admiral Cooper, Israel Jordan and our partners in the Gulf demonstrate historic capabilities [1:18:20] in cooperation to defend themselves and enable Operation Epic Fury. [1:18:24] This trust was not built overnight. [1:18:26] What role does CENTCOM's long-running military partnership and security cooperation play to [1:18:31] achieve these operational effects? [1:18:32] Sir, our partnerships in the region over the last several months from the mill-to-mill [1:18:38] perspective have been dramatically enhanced. [1:18:40] I'd particularly like to cite the shoulder-to-shoulder operations with five of the six GCC countries [1:18:47] with whom we have patriot batteries assigned, not just in, not just figuratively, but literally. [1:18:52] And these countries in particular, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, and Kuwait employ their patriots [1:18:59] to protect Americans. [1:19:00] I think that's the greatest sign of what integration looks like and what strong partnership looks like. [1:19:05] Do you think that our NATO allies and European allies are safer because of Operation Epic Fury? [1:19:15] Yes, sir, I do. [1:19:16] I don't know whether you can say whether or not you're disappointed in the lack of response [1:19:20] and cooperation from our NATO allies, but maybe Mr. Zimmerman would opine on that. [1:19:29] Thank you, Congressman. [1:19:31] We can talk more about in the next session. [1:19:34] Certainly, we have been very eager for our certain NATO partners to be much quicker to step up and lend a hand. [1:19:43] We have gotten support from some of our NATO allies. [1:19:46] That's part of the story. [1:19:48] But in some cases, it was disappointingly late to need. [1:19:52] But when it came to Russia and Ukraine, they were very pleased that we were directly involved, correct? [1:19:57] Very pleased. [1:19:59] Yes. [1:20:00] Admiral Cooper, you stated in your opening statement pretty clearly. [1:20:04] Do you think that Iran's regime is stronger today than it was before Epic Fury? [1:20:09] Congressman, by every measure of national power, Iran is significantly weaker. [1:20:14] Okay. [1:20:15] So their military is significantly degraded. [1:20:19] Can they project power like they could eight weeks ago? [1:20:24] They cannot, sir. [1:20:25] Okay. [1:20:26] And do you think that their information that they received, and this may go back to Mr. Zimmerman, but the information that you're hearing in this committee today, [1:20:40] the one thing I love about armed services, we're very bipartisan, we're on Team America. [1:20:45] But Mr. Zimmerman, do you think that the Iranian regime pays attention to U.S. politics? [1:20:51] 100 percent. [1:20:54] Okay. [1:20:55] You know, this is my opinion, but I'm hearing people in this room today and certainly on news outlets like CNN and other left-leaning outlets that seem to almost be rooting against America. [1:21:07] From what Admiral Cooper describes and what our military has achieved, which they should be getting nothing but accolades from this entire committee as well as the entire country, [1:21:16] the operations that they have undergone in Venezuela with Midnight Hammer, with Epic Fury, there shouldn't be an American on this continent that isn't proud of what our military did. [1:21:29] But yet what we're hearing in the news and what we're hearing in this room seems to very much wane on politics. [1:21:37] The fact that we're talking about gas prices when just less than five years ago they were over $5 under Biden and under Obama they had a sustained high price for longer than any other president. [1:21:48] Is it helpful to have this type of opposition in terms of military success in the Middle East right now going on when we're trying to finish degrading what is probably our third biggest adversary, Mr. Zimmerman? [1:22:10] Congressman, the good news is that the president has been very clear about his resolve to bring a solution to this conflict that will advance U.S. interests, and the Iranians pay attention to that too. [1:22:21] These things don't always happen exactly as planned, and there are things that change, right, Admiral Cooper? [1:22:27] In terms of the timing, I think when Obama went after Gaddafi, it ended up taking seven months. [1:22:35] We're a few months into this. [1:22:37] You've already said that the Iranian military, the regime, their military capability has been substantially reduced. [1:22:44] Their nuclear capability has been substantially reduced. [1:22:47] Their ability to achieve a nuclear weapon has been substantially reduced. [1:22:51] So all of these things would indicate that Operation Epic Fury has achieved a great success to this point. Would you agree? [1:22:59] I would, sir. We met all our military objectives. [1:23:02] And just on the point of timing, we conducted military operations for 38 days, and now we're 40 or so plus since the ceasefire is in effect. [1:23:10] So we've actually been in the ceasefire longer than we were conducting active kinetic operations. [1:23:15] Gentlemen's time's expired. [1:23:16] Chair, now recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Carbajal. [1:23:19] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. [1:23:25] You know, it's interesting to hear that during Biden and Obama, there were challenges, gas prices were high, and that was terrible back then. [1:23:36] But now it's okay. Now it's okay. [1:23:39] Talking about partisanship, I think it's important to understand what's being said. [1:23:44] I want to start by expressing my condolences to the families of the 13 service members who lost their lives in this war and of the two service members who passed away during the training exercises earlier this month in Africa. [1:23:58] Admiral Cooper, I also want to thank you and all the men and women serving under you for your service to our nation during this difficult time and a misguided war. [1:24:08] We are quickly approaching three months of deeply unpopular war, a war that still has no clear objectives and end in sight, a war that is costing billions of taxpayer dollars, a war that is driving up the cost of living for every American, especially at the pump. [1:24:26] This war was not authorized or budgeted, which means the department will be asking Congress for a supplemental funding package on top of the proposed $1.5 trillion defense budget for fiscal year 2027. [1:24:44] Secretary Zimmerman, we know the cost of oil has gone up globally, with some estimates over 55%. [1:24:51] How much has this increase in oil cost CENTCOM directly over the duration of Operation Epic Fury and now into Operation Project Freedom? [1:25:02] Congressman, I would be happy to take that question back and get you as accurate an answer as I can. [1:25:10] Is there any percentage, an increase of cost, anything? [1:25:14] I think I'll have to get back to you on that. [1:25:16] I don't think that anyone is questioning that Iran's military capabilities have been severely degraded over the course of this campaign. [1:25:25] Yet despite the intense bombing campaign and the apparent eradication of Iran's navy, [1:25:31] they are still able to blockade the Strait of Hormuz and hold targets around the region at risk. [1:25:37] Admiral Cooper, do we possess the military capability to open the Strait of Hormuz against a military that has been severely weakened? [1:25:46] Congressman, I wouldn't want to talk about any specific capability, but broadly speaking, [1:25:51] we are well-postured to execute military operations across virtually any continuum. [1:25:57] But the Strait of Hormuz is still closed. [1:25:59] Congressman, the Strait of Hormuz in the last couple of weeks have had multiple instances of ships passing through, [1:26:05] including U.S. destroyers, U.S. flagships, and just last night… [1:26:08] Secretary Zimmerman, earlier this month, there were reports that the Civil Military Coordination Center, or the CMCC, was set to be shut down. [1:26:17] The administration denied these reports. Can you confirm whether the CMCC is actually closed, [1:26:23] or there are a plan that it will be absorbed into another entity? [1:26:30] Congressman, my understanding is no final decision has been made along those lines. [1:26:34] And the thing I would like to say is that, first of all, as has been said before, [1:26:39] no one does more to protect civilians in a wartime scenario or in a conflict scenario than the United States. [1:26:46] And the…we are moving…if I may borrow a phrase, actually, from…from… [1:26:52] We are moving from compliance to culture. [1:26:55] The principles that…that are inherent in protecting civilians are now baked into our processes in a way that hadn't been before. [1:27:03] Let me…let me continue. [1:27:04] How much is the CMCC currently overseeing the distribution of humanitarian aid into Gaza? [1:27:10] What are the current obstacles to aid delivery? And how would the closing of the CMCC affect aid delivery? [1:27:16] Can I defer to you on that? [1:27:19] Let me defer to Admiral Cooper on that. [1:27:21] So, the CMCC plays an indispensable role in both stabilization and the coordination of the delivery of humanitarian assistance since its inception. [1:27:30] More than 70 countries and international organizations are in the CMCC. [1:27:33] Admiral, what are they doing right now? [1:27:35] They are helping to coordinate the delivery of humanitarian assistance and keep the ceasefire in effect, which has been successful for the last seven months. [1:27:43] How much aid has been delivered in the last six months? [1:27:46] I can come back with the exact number, but back in December, the IPC, who is the oversight organization for aid, said that famine is no longer a threat in Gaza. [1:27:55] I think it's a reflection of U.S. service members' absolute commitment to this mission, which has gone extremely well. [1:28:02] Thank you. [1:28:03] Thank you. [1:28:05] Mr. Chair, I yield back. [1:28:06] I thank the gentleman for yielding. [1:28:07] I'm cheering. [1:28:08] I recognize the gentleman from Mississippi, General Kelly. [1:28:10] I thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank the witnesses for being here. [1:28:16] I just, at some point, the politics has to stop on this committee. [1:28:21] When they say, kill them with kindness, take them out, 86 them, blow them away, nuke them, destroy them, that's hyperbole. [1:28:33] When President Trump says that, it's an actionable term. [1:28:36] It's either one or the other. [1:28:38] It's not both. [1:28:39] And to use it when it's convenient politically is not right for either party, for either side. [1:28:45] I would just say, when the President said, give no quarter, did he give a lawful order to the military to give no quarter, or was it just a tweet or something that he said? [1:28:55] Did he give anybody sitting at that table a lawful order to give the enemy no quarter? [1:29:00] No, sir. [1:29:04] No, sir. [1:29:06] Did either of you interpret any tweet, message, talk on TV, anything else, did you interpret that as the right for you to give the enemy no quarter? [1:29:18] No, sir. [1:29:20] No, because it's hyperbole. [1:29:22] It means we're going to tell you everything necessary to win this war and nothing more. [1:29:27] I now want to talk to you, General Anderson, about the Buckeye H3 Delta platform that's reportedly flying in AFRICOM. [1:29:35] Is the data being collected actual and used today in AFRICOM, SOCOM, and other places around the globe? [1:29:43] Yes, Congressman. [1:29:45] The platform does pretty well in working in with other platforms that we have to help build a picture, a common operating picture for you in AFRICOM. [1:29:54] Is that correct? [1:29:55] That's correct. [1:29:56] Okay. [1:29:57] Admiral Cooper and General Anderson, how significant is the difference between having a forward-deployed ARG-MU already in theater versus relying on a sword spurs arriving seven to ten days later? [1:30:09] So ARG-MU plays an indispensable role across the 20-plus mission sets that it has. [1:30:17] We see the value, as we sit here right now, enforcing the blockade. [1:30:20] They're playing a predominant role in that enforcement. [1:30:22] And I want to talk a little bit about oil prices, too. [1:30:28] There's been a lot to do. [1:30:29] In June of 2022, the average U.S. gas price was $5.02 a gallon, $5, which is much higher than it is today. [1:30:40] During much of the previous administrations, not just Democratic, Democratic, it has been higher than it is right now. [1:30:47] But now it seems to be an issue. [1:30:49] I don't like high gas prices. [1:30:51] I think consumers do not like gas. [1:30:53] Do you feel like your military objectives and your political objectives are doing everything they can to end this as soon as possible to get those prices down, even though they're not the highest they've ever been? [1:31:08] Yes, Congressman. [1:31:11] I also want to talk about – I heard one of the further members talk about us lifting sanctions on Iranian oil. [1:31:18] During the early days of the Ukraine operations, did we not lift embargoes over Russian oil to allow them to fuel their war machine? [1:31:28] And in fact, did it not allow them to create more weapons systems and manufacturing to go after Ukrainians than all of the aid combined that we gave them as NATO and UN and everyone else? [1:31:41] Did not – the oil revenues that Russia was getting, because we allowed them to float into Europe, was it not greater than the amount of aid that we gave Ukraine? [1:31:49] Congressman, I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, but certainly the Russian oil revenues are – it's a huge part of their economy, huge revenue, and they benefit tremendously from that and can turn it into warfighting capability. [1:32:05] And, Admiral and General, as a combatant commander, do you feel more comfortable with the U.S. being an oil and energy exporter as – rather than relying on foreign sources, many who are not our friends, having to supply us in order to conduct combat operations? [1:32:25] Sir, access is always important, and the quicker the access, the more direct is always the best, and if it comes right from America, that's simply the quickest way to get it. That's great. [1:32:35] And in my last 35 seconds, just very briefly, how important is the state partnership program across both of your regions? [1:32:44] Congressman, I think the state partnership program is the greatest strategic investment we've made as a department since the Cold War, and it is absolutely critical to our force projection and our engagement on the continent. [1:32:55] I halfway agree with you, but also, IMAT and training those foreign leaders here at U.S. schools, that's also pretty important. Wouldn't you agree? [1:33:03] It is one of the most desired things from our partners, and it's one that has the longest term, most influence. [1:33:08] I yield back, Mr. Chairman. [1:33:11] Good points. [1:33:12] Chair, I recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms. Houlihan. [1:33:16] Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to start the conversation reiterating what many of my colleagues have said, [1:33:22] which is my deepest condolences go out to the families of the 13 service members who have lost their lives and the two who lost their lives in the training exercise as well. [1:33:31] My enormous gratitude to all of you who wear the uniform for your service and to Susan and to all of the families who have served in that special way that only those of us who have been a family member understand. [1:33:43] My mother's name is Susan, and she was a Navy brat and a Navy wife. [1:33:49] We are each here in service in different ways. [1:33:52] We should assume the best of one another, and we should assume that each and every one of us is a deeply patriotic person. [1:33:58] You should assume that my questions come from that. [1:34:01] My oversight is my duty, my constitutional obligation. [1:34:05] There is a lot of terminology in warfare as well that we've been speaking about here. [1:34:11] Some are very appropriately recognized terms, and I appreciate, Admiral, that you recognize in your opening terms the law of armed conflict. [1:34:19] We also spoke about the military terminology and definition of blockade as well. [1:34:24] Admiral, my questions start with you. [1:34:26] Would you characterize the Iranian regime's perception of the war as them being in an existential war where the regime's continued survival would be considered to be at risk? [1:34:37] Congressman, first, thank you for the warm words. [1:34:40] I think best characterizing Iran's view right now would fall under an intelligence umbrella that I'd be happy to talk about in a classified environment. [1:34:49] Do you feel the regime feels as though they're being threatened existentially by this war? [1:34:54] Again, I think there's some very specific intelligence on this. [1:34:57] I look forward to that, but I feel as though this is an easy question. [1:35:00] How would you characterize our approach to the war? [1:35:03] Is it existential, or is it perhaps a limited war by the definition of limited war? [1:35:09] I would characterize things as we sit here right now as being in a ceasefire with us prepared to operate and execute a range of contingencies. [1:35:18] Have we been involved in a limited war with Iran? [1:35:22] I think by definition, 38 days would constitute a limited war. [1:35:26] Thank you. [1:35:27] Thank you. [1:35:28] So if we are in a limited war, and they believe themselves to be in an existential crisis, and I look forward to the conversation in classified, [1:35:35] that is significant because we have a misunderstanding, a misalignment of what it is that our goals are. [1:35:41] It makes me think, honestly, of Vietnam where my father served, where the military appropriately, an amazing military, singular military, shared enemies killed, ground taken, bombs dropped, but we still lost that war. [1:35:54] My father served in that war. [1:35:56] The political end goal was badly crafted. [1:35:59] You've struck 13,000 targets, 80% of the Iranian defense services, 90% of the Navy. [1:36:06] You've talked about all of these issues. [1:36:08] But Secretary Zimmerman, in the negotiations, why does it feel like we're losing this war? [1:36:13] Why does it feel like we're heading towards something that is not necessarily a victory of any kind? [1:36:19] Congresswoman, I can't say I share that feeling. [1:36:25] The negotiations, as you note, are ongoing. [1:36:28] And as a department, we stand ready to backstop those negotiations. [1:36:32] What does success look like for the president? [1:36:34] What would winning look like? [1:36:36] What are we waiting for in terms of negotiations? [1:36:38] I'll defer to the White House on the specific aims of those negotiations. [1:36:45] I think, as has been stated clearly, the president is looking for a long-term solution to secure the interests of the United States and reduce the Iranian threats. [1:36:59] I just worry that we're in a position where we are at a stalemate. [1:37:03] Two blockades don't make a right. [1:37:05] And that's, I think, where we are right now. [1:37:07] I'll turn to another question with my remaining time. [1:37:10] Open Source Reporting says that there's about 50,000 service members in the Middle East. [1:37:15] If you had 9,000 fewer of them or 18% fewer, would that make your job more difficult? [1:37:21] We would have less flexibility for a range of contingencies. [1:37:27] So it would be more difficult? [1:37:28] Yes, it would be, of course. [1:37:30] How have our forces, in your opinion, fared thus far in the war? [1:37:33] Have you had any issue with their dedication, with their performance or their achievement and their duties? [1:37:38] Are our forces meeting the standard? [1:37:40] Our forces are exceeding the standard. [1:37:42] My best characterization is they establish themselves as the latest, greatest generation. [1:37:46] Thank you. I agree. [1:37:47] Mr. Zimmerman, 18% of our service members are women. [1:37:50] The Admiral just testified that 18% decrease in personnel would make it harder for the mission to get done. [1:37:56] And that all of his forces, including the women, are meeting the standard, exceeding the standard, in fact. [1:38:01] I would ask perhaps someone, perhaps you, sir, to talk to the Secretary of Defense and let him know that we already have the data, that we already know the answer to whether women in combat can serve and serve appropriately. [1:38:13] There are no further studies required. [1:38:15] Thank you, and I yield back. [1:38:16] General Lady yields back. [1:38:18] Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Guam, Mr. Moylan. [1:38:22] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:38:23] Thank you to our panel. [1:38:24] I truly appreciate your hard work and your dedication to our nation and taking care of the American people. [1:38:33] I really appreciate you and believe in what you're doing. [1:38:39] Admiral, in your written statement, you talked about how we're doing with the situation, but you also talked on how we can maintain this from not continuing on. [1:38:49] A long-term solution, I looked at it as with burden-shifting, talking with our allies on how they can become more active in investment, especially into the foreign military sales. [1:39:03] Burden-shifting that would help us maintain this freedom that you are establishing now with the wins that you're getting. [1:39:13] Guam played a critical role also in your area as well with Midnight Hammer as a decoy in the situation. [1:39:24] And I see this as also how we're using our first and second island chain as our allies in the Indo-PACOM, as we have the allies in Centricom that you're working with too. [1:39:39] And also with affording them the foreign military sales as well and protecting our oceans. [1:39:47] Do you feel that this should also be a priority for Indo-Pacific by prioritizing their defense spending to facilitate the administration's burden and sharing priority as you have advocated for Centricom partners? [1:40:05] Sir, just a note on burden-sharing in the central region, we're past the concept. [1:40:13] They have been serving side-by-side defending Americans over the course of multiple months. [1:40:17] We couldn't be prouder. [1:40:18] They're all eager to assume a greater responsibility for their own defense. [1:40:22] They have bought $320 billion versus American weapons. [1:40:27] That number alone would be the second-largest defense budget in the world behind our own. [1:40:31] So they're eager, they're well-trained, they've proven themselves in combat by defending Americans. [1:40:36] I think that's a fantastic model that could be used in any theater. [1:40:40] And would you agree that by investing in U.S. platforms and weapons, that's the best investment they can do by increasing their military spending? [1:40:49] It's crystal clear to all our partners that American weapons and systems are the best in the world. [1:40:54] Okay. [1:40:56] I thank you for that, and I'm also hoping that Taiwan was quick to purchase the foreign military sales, [1:41:05] and I'm hoping they can get what they purchased as soon as possible as well. [1:41:10] And moving on then, speaking on munitions, it's been stated Iran has, they developed their military deterrence with conventional shield. [1:41:23] Their missiles, so ballistic missiles, so they can be allowed to continue the development of their nuclear program, which you successfully put aside. [1:41:32] But also in our epic theory on how we did that is we used our ammunition stockpile. [1:41:38] So with the current stockpile we have now, are you concerned about our own conventional shield to protect Centricom and especially the Indo-Pacom? [1:41:50] And I ask you, what can Congress do to help support you? [1:41:56] Congressman, I have no concerns about munitions supply. [1:41:58] We are well supplied and well postured for a range of contingencies to protect Americans and execute other operations as directed. [1:42:06] I'd really defer to my colleague, Admiral Paparo, on anything in the Pacific. [1:42:10] But what I'll also say is the United States military can move munitions and platforms like no other military in the world. [1:42:17] If our civilian leadership decides to reprioritize efforts, we'd be able to move people, munitions, planes, you name it, very, very quickly. [1:42:25] Excellent to know. Thank you. [1:42:28] Finally, the last question on readiness. [1:42:30] We have the USS Ford returned home after 11 months. [1:42:34] This extension had some negative effects on the maintenance and what they had to go through for the ship to be always ready. [1:42:42] Do you think Operation Temple could be effective in Centricom because of this? [1:42:50] And also, do you think this will affect the importance to deter aggression in the Indo-Pacom since we overextended the Ford? [1:43:02] First, I'd like to honor the crew of the Ford for a remarkable deployment. [1:43:07] Their service during combat operations, appropriately recognized by the President, I think is just an outstanding sense of just what the people achieved. [1:43:15] In terms of the effect from a global perspective, I'd really defer to policy on that. [1:43:19] In terms of where we are in Centcom, we have all the people, resources, ships, planes necessary to execute any mission. [1:43:25] Gentlemen, time's expired. Chair now recognizes this gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crowe. [1:43:29] Thank you, Chairman. Admiral Cooper, I'd like to start with you. [1:43:34] Does the word declare mean to make a statement openly or formally? [1:43:39] That's what the dictionary says it says. Would you stipulate to that? [1:43:45] Declare, sir. I think all things— [1:43:49] To make a statement openly and publicly, formally, yes? [1:43:53] Yes. [1:43:54] Okay, great. Are you familiar with the DoD Law of War Manual? [1:43:57] I am, sir. [1:43:58] You've studied it throughout your decades in service. [1:44:00] I have, sir. [1:44:01] And does the Law of War Manual prohibit certain actions? [1:44:05] Of course. It defines legal actions. [1:44:08] Yes, it does. [1:44:09] Pretty basic question. [1:44:10] Yes. [1:44:11] Does it also prohibit saying certain things? [1:44:13] I'd have to dig into the details, but there are certain—I'm certain that it does, but— [1:44:19] Okay. [1:44:20] I'd take that for the record. [1:44:21] I will—okay, so how about this? Section 5.4.7. Are you familiar with that section? Probably not off the top of your head. [1:44:27] Not off the top of my head. [1:44:28] I'll read it for you. [1:44:29] Sorry. [1:44:30] It says—the title of it is this. Prohibition against declaring that no quarter being—be given. [1:44:40] So it says you can't say something, right? Yes? [1:44:47] That's—I'll go with this line. [1:44:51] Pretty basic. [1:44:52] Yes, sir. [1:44:53] Okay. [1:44:54] Let me read it. [1:44:56] It is forbidden to declare that no quarter will be given. [1:44:59] This means that it is prohibited to order that legitimate offers of surrender will be refused or that detainees, such as unprivileged belligerents, will be summarily executed. [1:45:09] Moreover, it is also prohibited to conduct hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors or to threaten the adversary with the denial of quarter. [1:45:21] This rule is based on both humanitarian and military considerations. This rule also applies during non-international armed conflict. Does that make sense to you? [1:45:32] It's clear. From a U.S. military perspective, we follow the law of armed conflict. [1:45:37] That's right. So you would follow this section, too? [1:45:39] The U.S. military follows the law of armed conflict. [1:45:41] Correct. So you would—you would never utter—you would never declare state openly and publicly that no quarter being given because our own law of war manual prohibits it, does it not? [1:45:51] I have never made a declaration. [1:45:54] You haven't? [1:45:55] No. [1:45:56] Does the law of war manual prohibit it? [1:45:58] I'll take that for the record. [1:46:01] I just read it to you. [1:46:02] I just read it to you. [1:46:03] Yes, sir. [1:46:04] You're a combatant commander. You're one of our most senior military officers with tens of thousands of service members under your command. [1:46:11] Does the law of war manual state that it is prohibited to utter, to declare, that no quarter be given? [1:46:21] It prohibits a large number of things— [1:46:24] No, no. I ask you. [1:46:25] I will follow— [1:46:26] I just read the provision to you. [1:46:27] I just literally read the provision to you. [1:46:31] Does it prohibit you or anyone else from declaring that no quarter be given? [1:46:36] I just read it to you. [1:46:37] We will follow everything that's in the law. [1:46:39] Answer the question, Admiral Cooper. [1:46:41] You have tens of thousands of service members under your command. [1:46:44] And they all know— [1:46:45] I literally just read a provision from the law of war manual, our own manual. [1:46:48] Will you not just say what I just read to you? [1:46:51] I will say that we will follow the law of armed conflict to the T. [1:46:54] This is just unbelievable to me. [1:46:58] I find the same thing, sir. [1:46:59] This is just unbelievable to me. [1:47:01] We will follow the law of armed conflict very calmly. [1:47:04] You have tens of thousands of service members under your command. [1:47:07] I literally, verbatim, just read a provision from our own law of war manual, and you will refuse to say what that provision says. [1:47:18] Will you agree that it is prohibited under our own manual that you and all the people under your command are obligated to follow to declare that no quarter be given? [1:47:28] I will agree, consistent with my constitutional responsibility, to follow the law of armed conflict to the T. [1:47:34] And I expect everyone working for me to do that. [1:47:36] This is not leadership. [1:47:38] This is not leadership. [1:47:39] To not be able to say something as basic. [1:47:43] The people, the men and women who we represent, who are under your command, deserve leadership. [1:47:50] Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, I object. [1:47:52] This is a personal attack. [1:47:53] This is unfair and I appreciate the Admiral very much. [1:47:57] It's a Navy dad. [1:47:58] This is well within the purview of my questioning. [1:48:01] This is the gentleman's time. [1:48:02] If I may. [1:48:03] This is the gentleman's time. [1:48:04] He's making a comment. [1:48:05] I reclaim my time. [1:48:06] Can I reclaim some additional time? [1:48:07] I'm going to give you some extra time. [1:48:09] Go ahead. [1:48:10] It's our job to make sure the law is being followed. [1:48:12] That is literally the obligation of this Congress. [1:48:15] I read to you a provision of our own law of war manual and all I want you to say is what the provision says. [1:48:22] That it is prohibited. [1:48:23] It is prohibited. [1:48:24] This is the title. [1:48:25] This is what the title says. [1:48:26] To declare that no quarter be given. [1:48:28] I will follow the law to the T and expect everyone to do the same. [1:48:32] This is extremely disappointing. [1:48:34] Our service members deserve far better than this. [1:48:36] I yield back. [1:48:37] The gentleman yields back. [1:48:39] I want to make it clear that when a member is recognized, it is the members time. [1:48:44] They can make a speech with their time if they want to. [1:48:47] They can ask a question with their time if they want to. [1:48:49] They can do a little of both. [1:48:51] They can try to ask the witness leading questions. [1:48:54] It does not mean the witness has to answer the way they want. [1:48:58] The witness is in charge of their answers. [1:49:01] The member may or may not like their answers, but you cannot compel the witness to give the answer you want them to give. [1:49:09] But having said that, the member can try to ask leading questions if they want to. [1:49:14] And it may be bothersome to other members the way they're doing it, but it's their time. [1:49:19] With that, the chair now recognizes a gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Van Orden. [1:49:25] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:49:26] I'd like to read a quote from the chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff. [1:49:29] The procedures were correctly followed, and it was a righteous strike. [1:49:35] That was General Mark Milley talking about the Hellfire missile that killed a family of 10 in Kabul. [1:49:46] And the Department of Defense obfuscated that reality until they were forced to admit it. [1:49:57] And they did that because they didn't conduct a thorough investigation. [1:50:00] And they lied to the American public. [1:50:03] So we must actually take the time to do a thorough investigation of what took place overseas. [1:50:12] Mr. Zimmerman, are you a political appointee? [1:50:16] Yes. [1:50:19] You are. [1:50:20] Admiral, it's good to see you. [1:50:21] Mass Chief, General, Sergeant Major. [1:50:23] Admiral, are you a political appointee? [1:50:25] No, sir. [1:50:27] General, are you a political appointee? [1:50:29] Appointed by the president to serve as a combatant commander. [1:50:35] Okay, but you're not a political appointee. [1:50:37] Okay, is there a way that we could potentially identify a political appointee versus an active-duty member of the military at this table? [1:50:44] Is there some way that we could just, like, look and go, I'm guessing Mr. Zimmerman is a political appointee, [1:50:49] and that you two are active-duty members of the military? [1:50:51] Is there a way we could do that, Mr. Zimmerman? [1:50:54] Congressman, my kids have pointed out that I am by far the least impressive-looking member at the table. [1:51:00] Right, so we could, I mean, we could just say, I don't want to, we could potentially say that there's an easy way to identify a political appointee versus an active-duty member of the military. [1:51:14] And I think it's wholly inappropriate to ask active-duty members of the United States military to answer political questions, because that's not what you're here to do. [1:51:27] And when my colleagues berate active-duty members of the United States military to try to demand that they answer political questions, it's wholly inappropriate, and it's inexcusable. [1:51:39] And when we are seeking different offices than we are in currently, and we're trying to make splashes for television, that's what you get. [1:51:48] So I want to discuss something very serious. [1:51:52] Ranking Member Smith and Chairman Rogers recently gave every member of this committee a memo saying that there was an undisclosed, excuse me, an unauthorized disclosure of classified material. [1:52:06] And it was by a member of this committee, and I think I know who was doing this. [1:52:13] So when I'm asked by the press, am I offended that only the Gang of Eight was informed about Midnight Hammer? [1:52:19] I say no, because quite frankly, there are several members of this committee that have proven to not be capable of maintaining classified material and secrets that safeguard our nation. [1:52:35] And we are not capable of doing our constitutionally mandated congressional oversight if we cannot be exposed to classified information. [1:52:50] I feel completely uncomfortable with members of this committee asking you questions that could potentially hazard our military. [1:52:58] And I think right now, as opposed to sending a memo around, restating what is the obvious, [1:53:05] I believe that the Department of Justice should be actively investigating members of this committee for the criminal unauthorized disclosure of classified material. [1:53:15] I take that very seriously. I know that you do. [1:53:20] And I know that you guard your members of the military, you hold them close to your heart. [1:53:26] And if anybody were to be killed because somebody is trying to run for a higher office, they should be held accountable. [1:53:35] It's reprehensible. I don't even have a question for you guys. This has got to stop. [1:53:43] General Kelly is absolutely correct. [1:53:46] There should be a nonpartisan committee, not even a bipartisan, a nonpartisan committee. [1:53:51] And when people are using this as a platform to elevate themselves politically, they should be ashamed of themselves. [1:53:59] I do have some questions for you, General Anderson, for the record. [1:54:03] That just needed to be stated out loud. [1:54:06] So God bless you. God bless the men and women that you watch over. [1:54:09] And I thank you very, very much for your dedication to duty. [1:54:12] And with that, I yield back. [1:54:14] Gentleman yields back. [1:54:15] Chairman, I recognize a gentle lady from California, Ms. Jacobs. [1:54:18] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for testifying today. [1:54:23] Admiral Cooper, I'd like to start with you. [1:54:26] Thank you for the many conversations we've had about the topic of civilian harm. [1:54:30] I know it's something that you take very seriously. [1:54:34] I want to build on ranking member Smith's line of questioning and give you a chance to provide some clarity on your previous statements about the strike on the school in Minab. [1:54:42] So I led over half the Democratic caucus in a letter to the department requesting more information about this strike and urging the findings of the ongoing investigation to be made public. [1:54:52] And the only response we received to our letter was to reiterate that there is an investigation ongoing. [1:54:58] Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter both of these into the record. [1:55:01] Without objection. [1:55:03] Thank you. [1:55:04] Thank you. [1:55:05] Admiral, we have public reporting here from The New York Times that the preliminary investigation, the preliminary inquiry concluded that the United States is at fault. [1:55:16] Can I also enter this into the record? [1:55:19] Without objection, so ordered. [1:55:20] Can you confirm that this was, in fact, the finding of the preliminary inquiry? [1:55:25] Congressman, I was asked about this last Thursday in a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing. [1:55:31] We spent the weekend, myself and the staff, we looked into all 39 incidents that were outlined in the article. [1:55:37] My assessment and our staff confirmed only one of them correlated with the U.S. strike. [1:55:41] That was the strike in Minab on the girls' school. [1:55:44] It is an active IRGC base. [1:55:46] The other 38 instances did not involve U.S. munitions. [1:55:50] Okay. [1:55:51] I'm actually asking about a different New York Times article, although I will get to that one. [1:55:55] This one is about just the Minab strike. [1:55:58] U.S. at fault in strike on school in Iran preliminary inquiry says. [1:56:02] Can you confirm that the U.S. being at fault was, in fact, the finding of the preliminary inquiry into the school strike in Minab? [1:56:11] The only outcome of the preliminary inquiry was that it was brought to my attention. [1:56:16] I immediately directed a more sophisticated, comprehensive investigation that would be led by an outside organization. [1:56:23] That is in progress. [1:56:24] We're coming toward the end of it. [1:56:25] And as you mentioned, I'm committed to full transparency. [1:56:27] I think this is a vitally important matter. [1:56:30] Okay. [1:56:31] And when can we expect this investigation to be complete and shared with us? [1:56:36] This investigation or any investigation, I'm always reluctant to put a timetable on it. [1:56:39] It is coming to the end, and I think transparency is important, ma'am. [1:56:43] Okay. [1:56:44] And will you commit today to release an unclassified version of it to the public? [1:56:47] I do. [1:56:48] Okay. [1:56:49] Thank you. [1:56:50] And on these other 39 allegations here in this other New York Times article, you have done preliminary assessments of these reports? [1:56:58] We looked at all 39, yes. [1:57:00] Okay. [1:57:01] And your understanding is that none of the other 38 had U.S. munitions? [1:57:07] Not just our understanding, our comprehensive assessment. [1:57:10] The other 38 did not have a U.S. munition nexus at all. [1:57:14] Can you share that analysis with this committee? [1:57:17] Sure. [1:57:18] And beyond that, I'd be more than happy to invite you and any member of the staff here to come down and take a look in Tampa for yourselves. [1:57:24] Good. [1:57:25] I plan on doing that. [1:57:26] Thank you. [1:57:27] All right. [1:57:29] General Anderson, as you know, I spend a lot of time thinking about the African continent. [1:57:37] And I want to talk about our strategy in Nigeria. [1:57:41] Over Christmas last year, the United States conducted airstrikes in Northwest Sokodo State. [1:57:45] Since then, the U.S. has sent 200 troops to Nigeria to train the country's military. [1:57:50] And just this past weekend, the U.S. conducted more strikes and an operation that killed Abu Bakr Mainak. [1:57:57] This was a significant operation, including American Special Operations and SEAL Team 6. [1:58:04] But as you also know, high-profile military operations, while they sound impressive, are not actually how you address violent extremism. [1:58:10] You and I have had this conversation. [1:58:13] What is the actual strategy here other than episodic military operations that amount to an endless game of whack-a-mole? [1:58:20] Congressman, I appreciate your interest in Nigeria. [1:58:25] And these were significant strikes that set back the ISIS network significantly globally. [1:58:31] We have had incredibly good partnership and cooperation with the Nigerians to include their intelligence sharing. [1:58:37] We are working with them as they address the strategy to address the greater drivers of this terrorism. [1:58:44] Our role in the military is to help them with the violent extremist piece of it. [1:58:49] We have worked with them to introduce them to other nonprofits, other folks that can help with the law enforcement pieces as they are looking at options to address the drivers of this instability and violent extremism. [1:59:02] Well, thank you for that. [1:59:04] But, you know, with respect, we've tried this model across the Sahel before. [1:59:08] In Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, it collapsed. [1:59:11] We often were responsible for training the very officers who committed the coups. [1:59:15] So I only have three seconds left. [1:59:17] I would like you to take for the record, if you could, what is materially different about what we're doing in Nigeria from what we've done in the Sahel. [1:59:24] And, Mr. Chairman, I go back. [1:59:26] I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. McGuire. [1:59:28] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:59:29] Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. [1:59:31] I want to say I couldn't be more proud of the work that you're doing and in our men and women in our military. [1:59:36] We wouldn't have a country without our men and women in our military who risk their life and sometimes give their life for our freedom. [1:59:41] So thank you. [1:59:42] I had the honor Saturday of joining our incredible Secretary of War Pete Hegseth and our Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Caldell, [1:59:50] as we welcomed home the USS Gerald Ford Carrier Strike Group. [1:59:55] And I've got to tell you, the morale is high, and they accomplished a lot. [1:59:58] And, again, congratulations on weakening ISIS with the recent strikes. [2:00:03] Admiral Cooper, Operation Epic Fury achieved in just 38 days of combat operations a foreign policy goal that eluded decision-makers here in Washington for the past 40 years. [2:00:15] I have several simple yes or no questions. [2:00:18] Over the past two years leading up to this operation, is it true that Iran and its proxies will routinely attack in American forces and partners across the region? [2:00:26] Yes. [2:00:27] Without getting into certain details, would you say Iran was racing to build a massive conventional shield of missiles and drones to protect its nuclear program and its ability to build a nuclear weapon? [2:00:39] That's indisputable, yes. [2:00:40] Did the more than 13,500 strikes conducted during Epic Fury significantly degrade Iran's ability to produce and employ its conventional weapons stockpiles? [2:00:50] Not just degrade, but they degraded every element of national power. [2:00:54] And if they were to get a nuclear weapon and they used it on, say, Paris or London or even U.S. soil, would that kill hundreds of people, thousands of people, or millions of people, in your opinion? [2:01:10] Notwithstanding that there's a component of this I wouldn't want to discuss, but we all know nuclear weapons kill millions of people. [2:01:18] Absolutely. So, again, I'm so glad that you guys had the fortitude and the strength to step up and stop this incredible threat, not just to the U.S., but to mankind. [2:01:26] Admiral, you recently set up the Rapid Experimentation Joint Task Force and Task Force Scorpion Strike, a first-of-its-kind UAS squadron that used Group 3 one-way attack systems during Epic Fury, Lucas Drone. [2:01:40] How are you sharing the lessons from this model with other combatant commands, and how is it feeding back into the acquisition cycle for the rest of the joint force? [2:01:47] Yes, sir. We're super proud of the Rapid Employment Joint Task Force designed to take the great weapons and sensors that are out the American industry is producing, [2:01:56] get them in the hands of warfighters in 60 days. Lucas did exactly that. We fired high volumes of them at Iran very effectively. [2:02:03] We've taken those lessons and shared them both in the department and laterally with other combatant commands, [2:02:08] and we will continue to do that as we have a more robust drone dominance now at our hands than we did last year. [2:02:15] Thank you. Assistant Secretary Zimmerman and General Anderson, this administration has shifted away from the old practice of condition and security cooperation [2:02:23] on progressive social and governance priorities and instead adopted a more realist approach based on shared interest. [2:02:30] How is this practical approach playing out with partners across AFRICOM as you work to counter terrorist and drug trafficking groups there? [2:02:38] Yes, Congressman, we've engaged Nigeria as an example of that where we have done very high-level engagement for intelligent sharing for common interest. [2:02:49] We've also been working with the State Department to restore relations with some of the Sahel states to be able to open the dialogue in order to, again, address the common threats [2:02:59] and be able to provide the indications and warnings of that growing threat. [2:03:02] Awesome. And Admiral Cooper, current and recent operations in CENTCOM have put U.S. forces up against a persistent and adaptable UAS threat. [2:03:10] How has your command shifted doctrine and tactics to address this threat? [2:03:14] Congressman, first, I want to deepen the myth that has existed for a number of years that the United States is using high-end costly munitions to fight $35,000 drones. [2:03:26] Those days are behind us. Iranian drones are sophisticated, complex. We have a very sophisticated, complex network in the Middle East to defend it. [2:03:35] It's been very successful in a classified environment. I can talk about the specific numbers. [2:03:39] Okay. And we're running out of time, but what would you need more of? Are you working with JIAIDA 401 to translate lessons learned? [2:03:46] And what can this committee do for the three of you to help us better defend our nation and our warfighters and whoever wants to take a bite at that? [2:03:53] We're working very close with 401. Fantastic relationship. I'd put three things. More electronic warfare, keep counter-UAS on the leading edge. [2:04:01] Tactics change very quickly. And we need to invest more in hard and deeply buried targets. Everybody is going underground. [2:04:07] General Anderson. [2:04:09] Yeah, for us, directed and focused funding for experimentation to bring emerging technologies to the continent, directed and consistent funding for information operations to counter the misinformation out there, [2:04:19] and energizing the industrial base to allow our foreign military sales for these partners because they definitely want to buy American equipment, but often the delays are what hurt. [2:04:29] Gentlemen, time's expired. [2:04:31] Chairman, I recognize a gentleman from New York, Mr. Ryan. [2:04:33] Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. I want to de-wonk a little bit and try to center what I'm hearing from my constituents in the district and across the country. [2:04:43] They are, as I know the whole committee is and myself, incredibly proud of our troops, incredibly appreciative of your leadership, but also increasingly deep and broad concern about what is the plan in Iran and do we have a clear strategy. [2:04:58] They see the costs continue to go up. We talked about our 13 heroes lost, the hundreds wounded many seriously, tens of billions of dollars in their hard earned taxpayer funds, potential for another 200 billion, we've heard, supplemental. [2:05:14] And, of course, just the astronomical cost every American is paying at the pump under $3 gas prices before the war started and now approaching $5. [2:05:25] And just as we know, that's thousands of dollars per family and people just cannot afford it right now. [2:05:30] And in good faith, the question I continue to hear from my constituents is what is the plan to not just end but win the conflict and bring down costs? [2:05:43] And I think part of what I'm trying to get at is folks are feeling some whiplash. [2:05:48] For example, Admiral Cooper on April 30th, you went to the White House, you briefed the president on options. That was publicly reported anyway. [2:05:56] A few days later, Secretary Hegseth announced this Project Freedom. Secretary Rubio the same day said that Operation Epic Fury was concluded. [2:06:05] We were essentially told this new plan, which was separate and distinct, would open the Strait and sort of unlock this stalemate. [2:06:14] Literally a day later, without much explanation, the president announced that project was over, the Strait remained closed, gas prices continued to climb. [2:06:24] We saw, of course, last week, there was great hope that the summit in China would change the dynamics. [2:06:30] It appears the president, at least so far, came home empty handed, Strait remained closed, gas prices continue to rise. [2:06:36] Iran continues to strike their neighboring countries. We have as many, if not more, troops in theater. [2:06:43] And I think, I mean, you said, Mr. Zimmerman, it's complex. I think it's pretty clear to the American people, at least from what they're hearing, that it feels like we're stuck. [2:06:52] One of my constituents said, this is a mess. And so I'm just trying to answer that to them and especially the military families in my district. [2:07:00] Admiral Cooper, what options are you briefing to the president now to try to create the leverage that we know we need? [2:07:06] Congressman, first of all, great to see you again. And thanks for your own service. [2:07:12] As you would appreciate, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on specific discussions I had or recommendations to the secretary and the president, which are a statutory responsibility of mine. [2:07:22] What I will tell you is, as you sit here right now, the implementation of the blockade is highly effective and is being used as a very strong lever in diplomatic negotiations. [2:07:32] And those diplomatic negotiations governed by policy will dictate the way ahead. [2:07:36] U.S. military, in the meantime, is fully postured in a three point stance, ready to go a number of different direction as directed. [2:07:44] Thank you, Admiral. Mr. Zimmerman, can you I understand the opposite concerns, of course. [2:07:49] Can you help expand on this? Yesterday, the president in a very long post said to many of our surprise, there was a planned military attack actually planned for today. [2:08:02] But that he has told you all to, quote, hold off. But in the same post, he also instructed you to be prepared to, quote, go forward with a full large scale assault of Iran on a moment's notice. [2:08:15] But just an hour ago, actually, as we've been in committee, he doubled down on TV standing in front of the East Room demolition saying, quote, we may have to give them another big hit. [2:08:25] So, again, I'm just trying to be able to explain to my constituents, Mr. Zimmerman, are we reinitiating offensive combat operations? [2:08:33] Thank you, Congressman. Of course, that decision is the president's to make. [2:08:42] Is that an option that's been briefed to him? [2:08:44] Well, Mr. Congressman, it's his it's his decision to make whether are you planning to ask Congress this time for a declaration or an authorization now that we're almost three months in. [2:08:55] As you know, right now, there are negotiations going on of the highest order to try to achieve a long term. [2:09:02] I understand that. I understand that. To be more specific. [2:09:05] Will you rule out today that one of those options would be putting boots on ground, which I think the wide array of the American people are concerned about specifically? [2:09:15] Mr. Congressman, the president retains the options at his disposal to do. [2:09:20] So you will not rule out escalating this further by putting groups in Iran? [2:09:24] The president retains the options he needs to get. [2:09:27] We owe. I'm out of time, but we owe the American people honesty and transparency almost three months in. [2:09:33] It is it is pathetic. I yield back, Mr. Chair. [2:09:36] Gentlemen's time's expired. [2:09:39] I recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crank. [2:09:41] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for your service. [2:09:46] General Anderson, several African countries have turned to Russian mercenaries for internal stability and for counterterrorism. [2:09:53] Yet in 2024, Russian and Russian backed forces caused more civilian casualties in the Sahel than Islamic terrorists did. [2:10:03] What message does this send to African nations seeking security partnerships? [2:10:07] Congressman, I think it's pretty obvious what message that sends. [2:10:13] It's pretty clear in what you just said. [2:10:15] And I think our operation recently here in Nigeria is a juxtaposition between what U.S. counterterrorism brings versus what Russian counterterrorism brings. [2:10:23] And I think the results speak for themselves. [2:10:25] Thank you, General. [2:10:28] Admiral Cooper, during Operation Epic Fury, you said, quote, our space superiority has been a critical enabler to CENTCOM's activities. [2:10:37] Can you expand on the role that the Space Force plays and played in the conflict and how it integrates with the other services and with our allies? [2:10:46] Congressman, I'd like to use the phrase the Space Force gives us the ultimate high ground. [2:10:50] They've played an indispensable role. [2:10:52] I would love to have the opportunity to brief you and other members of the committee on exactly what role Space Force Central has played and continue to play in a classified environment. [2:11:01] Yeah, it's indispensable. [2:11:02] Essentially, it's foundational to what you do, right? [2:11:05] Absolutely. [2:11:06] It's integrated into every aspect of our operations. [2:11:09] Thank you. [2:11:10] And then, Secretary Zimmerman, Operation Epic Fury represented the Space Force's first real test in sustained combat operations. [2:11:18] What lessons has the department drawn from that experience? [2:11:22] Like what worked, what didn't work? [2:11:24] Were there any capabilities or gaps that surprised you? [2:11:27] And how does that inform the service's role in future conflicts? [2:11:33] Thank you for the question, Congressman. [2:11:36] If I may, I would like to take that back to the building. [2:11:38] We have an assistant secretary, my colleague, Mark Berkowitz, who specifically covers space issues, and he would be able to give you the most thorough answer on that question. [2:11:47] Okay. [2:11:48] Thank you. [2:11:49] That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. [2:11:50] I'll give you back. [2:11:51] Gentleman yields back. [2:11:53] Chairman, I recognize this gentleman from New Mexico, Mr. Basquez. [2:11:56] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member, and to our witnesses for being here today, and thank you so much for your service to our nation. [2:12:03] For 80 days, the administration has waged a war in Iran without congressional authorization with the approval of the American people. [2:12:09] The administration has spent at least $29 billion in taxpayer funds on the president's war of choice, billions in funding that could have gone to healthcare or lowering the cost of living. [2:12:20] We all agreed that Iran should never have a nuclear weapon. [2:12:23] But last June, the administration had stated that Iran's nuclear facilities were obliterated. [2:12:28] Congress has yet to see proof that there was an imminent threat, and the administration has failed to explain to Americans how this war is in our nation's best interests or what the end goal or exit strategy truly is. [2:12:39] To me, this is unacceptable. [2:12:41] The New Mexicans that sent me to Congress to represent them deserve answers, and I'm here to get them. [2:12:45] So let's get started. [2:12:46] Assistant Secretary, earlier this month, the president publicly stated that the war was, and I quote, terminated. [2:12:54] Could you tell the American people today that this war is over? [2:12:56] Congressman, as the president stated, we were pursuing some specific military objectives, and he said that that phase of major combat operations was over. [2:13:10] And we were transitioning to the Project Freedom, and we're in a ceasefire now with a blockade going on. [2:13:17] And so. [2:13:18] So assistant secretary of a constituent asked me that question in very plain language, as many New Mexicans speak. [2:13:23] Congressman Vasquez, is the war over? [2:13:25] What should I tell them? [2:13:26] We have a ceasefire. [2:13:28] We have a ceasefire. [2:13:29] So does that mean the war is essentially over? [2:13:32] Is that a yes or no? [2:13:33] I would answer by saying that we are in a state of ceasefire. [2:13:35] Well, the war is now approaching three months, and let's be clear. [2:13:38] It's never ended, and Congress has never authorized these military actions. [2:13:41] A large U.S. military presence in the Strait of Hormuz remains blockading Iranian ports, which under international law is an act of war itself. [2:13:49] Additionally, the administration recently struck multiple sites and Iranian flag ships. [2:13:54] Our troops are still at risk, and just yesterday, the president publicly threatened more military strikes against Iran. [2:13:59] We're clearly still in a war, and American taxpayers are paying for it. [2:14:04] Now, gas prices in New Mexico are at about $4.50 per gallon. [2:14:08] They're paying double for their fertilizer. [2:14:10] I just spoke to four farmers in my district who potentially will have to shut down their operations if they don't have relief anytime soon. [2:14:18] My constituents want this war over. [2:14:20] What's the administration's exit strategy? [2:14:22] What's the efforts to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, Secretary? [2:14:28] That's certainly part of the negotiations that are ongoing as we speak. [2:14:33] Assistant Secretary, before the war, an average of 100 ships per day were passing through the Strait. [2:14:37] Now at least 1,000 are stranded with only a handful per day passing through. [2:14:40] How soon before a return to normal? [2:14:42] I don't have a specific timeline for you. [2:14:48] As has been stated already, the Strait of Hormuz, you have a situation with multiple players there, including a highly degraded foe, Iran, who still is speaking loudly, as Admiral Cooper said. [2:15:01] And the flow through the Strait is not only impacted by real military capabilities, which have been seriously degraded, but also the decision making of commercial actors as well and their calculus as they think about their operations. [2:15:18] Okay. [2:15:19] And Assistant Secretary, is the option still to escort ships through the Strait? [2:15:23] Is that still an option that's viable? [2:15:25] Our department will be responsive to any option or any directive that the President gives us. [2:15:34] Okay. [2:15:35] Well, I just think it's important because it seems like every day we have different strategies of how to reopen or open the flow of the Strait of Hormuz. [2:15:41] My constituents ask me and I can't give them a straight answer because, like you mentioned, the President changes his mind on a daily basis. [2:15:48] And it is very tough to have predictability, especially in the economy, if we know that all those tankers are essentially, you know, it'll be months before they get here. [2:15:57] Perhaps oil and gas will come first, but fertilizer will come second, leaving our farmers probably till the fall or winter before they see those prices go down. [2:16:04] Those prices go down and that is a problem. [2:16:06] And so to me and to the American people, the lack of this clear vision for how the U.S. is going to get out of this war or reopen the Strait is really, really concerning. [2:16:14] You know, no one asked for this. [2:16:15] Americans voted for a president who promised to keep our country out of senseless forever wars. [2:16:20] And today that promise, as we see, is broken. [2:16:23] This war of choice is costing the American people billions as their cost of living continues to spike from inflation, from rising gas prices and from tariffs. [2:16:31] Those are the folks that I represent and what they care about. [2:16:33] And we just learned that our largest military objective is simply to get us back to where we started before the war. [2:16:38] The American people deserve to know why they're sending their sons and daughters to war. [2:16:42] They deserve to know how long this war will last and how much it will cost. [2:16:45] They deserve to know if it's going to endanger American lives and civilians domestically and abroad. [2:16:50] And they deserve to know when the price of damn gas is going to go back down again. [2:16:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:16:55] I yield back. [2:16:56] Gentleman yields back. [2:16:57] Chairman, I recognize the gentleman from Kansas, Mr. Schmidt. [2:17:00] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:17:02] Chairman and I want to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today and particularly for you, Admiral, and you, General. [2:17:07] I want to thank all of the men and women under your command and their families and friends and colleagues. [2:17:13] And we are grateful for their service as well as your own. [2:17:16] Admiral, let me start with you or perhaps Mr. Zimmermuth. [2:17:19] Just to clarify a fact, I think I've heard two different things over the past several weeks and I'd just like to know what the disconnect is. [2:17:25] I believe you said today, and I think Mr. Zimmerman also, you used the number 14 in referencing the number of Americans who have been killed in this operation or these operations. [2:17:35] That's the same number that Secretary Hegseth and I believe General Cain used at that table a few weeks ago. [2:17:40] But most of us have been using the number 13, including a number of my colleagues here today. [2:17:45] Can you shed any light on where that discrepancy lies? [2:17:47] Certainly there's, Congressman, there's simply an individual who died outside of, he was not killed in action. [2:17:57] But in theater? [2:17:59] We respect his family. [2:18:00] We honor him along with the other 13. [2:18:02] Thank you very much for clarifying that. [2:18:04] Admiral, let me ask you about the commerce in and out of the strait and looking forward. [2:18:09] Obviously none of us knows what the future holds, but can you discuss a bit about what should, what might, what could, whatever is appropriate in this setting? [2:18:18] A European role look like in terms of guaranteeing maritime transit in the region going forward? [2:18:25] There have been the public reports most recently about our British and French allies talking about some type of role. [2:18:31] But can you talk a bit about that? [2:18:32] Congressman, much of that is a policy matter, not a military matter. [2:18:37] What I can say is we've continued to work very closely with military partners in the region to support future operations and planning. [2:18:44] That's gone on. [2:18:45] And we've also connected at a military-to-military level with our European allies from a planning perspective. [2:18:51] What that looks like in execution is a civilian policy decision. [2:18:54] Would it be fair to say that it would be helpful if there is a European role going forward? [2:18:59] All help would be appreciated at the appropriate time. [2:19:03] And, Admiral, can you talk a bit about our capacity to diminish, degrade, destroy, whatever the right word is, the Iranians' ability to mine the straits or the waters in the area? [2:19:15] Where are we on that? [2:19:16] And what more can we do to be helpful to your efforts in that regard? [2:19:20] Congressman, as I stated in my statement for the record, we eliminated 90 percent of Iran's mine capability during Operation Epic Fury. [2:19:31] They still retained 10 percent of it. [2:19:33] In a classified environment, I could talk about the specifics of what that looks like and how we're handling that. [2:19:38] Very good. Thank you. [2:19:39] General, let me turn my attention to you and to our work in Africa. [2:19:43] Listening to your discussions today, and we all have a different recollection of history and the lessons we draw from it, [2:19:51] but your discussion about what's happening in West Africa today, our inability to see and know as much as we would like to see and know, [2:19:59] the operations base that many of our adversaries or terrorist adversaries in particular are using, [2:20:04] it reminded me of the discussions in the 1990s when al-Qaeda was organizing in East Africa and Somalia and in Kenya and in Tanzania [2:20:12] and was trying to use the failed state in Afghanistan as their base of operation. [2:20:17] We all know where that led in 2001. [2:20:21] Can you describe, in whatever manner is appropriate in this setting, [2:20:25] the nature of the terrorist threat that you see brewing in Africa generally or West Africa in particular [2:20:31] and what that means to American homeland security? [2:20:36] Yes, I take this very seriously, Mr. Congressman, because of what you highlighted. [2:20:40] Terrorists will go to where there is lack of governance, where they have the ability to operate freely, [2:20:45] and that's why they have sought the Azawad area in particular of West Africa. [2:20:50] Without sufficient pressure, without the sufficient Western engagement there, we may lose sight of that, [2:20:56] and I think we, as you said, have seen what happens when that occurs. [2:20:59] So we are investing heavily in other means to include experimental and emerging technologies in order to be able to monitor this threat. [2:21:07] The concern that I have is that the terrorist threats have focused on Africa. [2:21:14] They see this as their future. [2:21:16] They see the potential of establishing a caliphate there. [2:21:19] If a nation capital were to fall and become controlled by a terrorist organization, [2:21:26] I think that would be a beacon for many of the terrorists that would energize them, [2:21:31] and I think that would be not in any interest of the United States or of the Western European countries. [2:21:36] So this is why we are focusing a lot of effort in order to provide those indications and warnings [2:21:40] so that we can adequately address it. [2:21:43] And to Congressman Crank's point there, the United States is the gold standard for counter-terrorism operations, [2:21:50] but it has to be enabled by working with a partner and the intelligence that goes behind it. [2:21:54] That allows us to conduct these operations with precision. [2:21:57] It allows us to take civilian casualties under consideration. [2:22:00] It allows us to work with a partner in ways no other way to do. [2:22:02] The gentleman's time has expired. [2:22:03] The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. Cisneros. [2:22:06] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. [2:22:09] Admiral Cooper, the Ford returned to Norfolk last Saturday after a record 330-day deployment, [2:22:15] the longest by a carrier since Vietnam. [2:22:19] And for three weeks, you had three carrier strike groups operating in the AOR, the Lincoln, the Ford, and the Bush. [2:22:24] That represents a quarter of the entire carrier fleet, almost half of our deployed U.S. ships in that single. [2:22:30] After that long deployment where the Ford was sent across the equator multiple times, [2:22:38] what was the need to keep three carriers in the region? [2:22:42] Now, I believe in the power of our Navy and how good it works and the tool that the carrier strike group is. [2:22:49] But why did we need three? [2:22:52] Congressman, good to see you again, sir. [2:22:54] First, just a matter of clarification statement for the record here. [2:22:57] When the George Bush showed up in theater, the Gerald Ford was dismissed 48 hours later. [2:23:02] There was not an enduring need for three carriers. [2:23:05] Okay. [2:23:06] Well, thank you for that answer. [2:23:07] Appreciate it. [2:23:08] General Anderson, I want to ask you, look, now I believe in diplomacy, and diplomacy comes in many ways. [2:23:16] And I think one of the ways that we have been effective diplomatically in the past is by using organizations like USAID that did a lot of work in Africa to share the goodwill of the United States. [2:23:28] Can you explain to me the fact that that program no longer exists, that there no longer is no USAID operating in Africa? [2:23:36] How that's made, how that's changed things for you? [2:23:41] I appreciate the question and agree. [2:23:45] There is a role for targeted aid that contributes to security and stability, whether that's from non-governmental organizations, governments, or private donors. [2:23:54] What that has meant for me is we have engaged very closely with the Department of Commerce in particular. [2:24:01] I have a Foreign Service Commercial Officer joining our staff to look at the intersection of economics and security. [2:24:06] And what we have found is that every African country that I have visited has welcomed the opportunity to engage with U.S. trade, U.S. investment, and they look at that as their future. [2:24:16] So we're looking at multiple different tools to use to provide security and stability across our government with us focusing on the military instrument, but understanding the security implications that other agencies bring. [2:24:28] So would you agree that the fact that, look, we always want to increase trade and commerce and work with partners all over the world, right? [2:24:36] And, yes, those companies would like to engage with us that way. [2:24:39] But the aid, would you agree to say that, yes, the elimination of USAID has had an impact on what you're able to do there and made it harder to partner with countries? [2:24:51] I think that's still to be determined, Congressman. [2:24:54] We have not seen what that impact is entirely. [2:24:57] There is still aid in Africa that is constructive for providing stability. [2:25:03] But, again, it's a multifaceted approach that we're looking at. [2:25:06] Well, I think, you know, the elimination of such programs like that, right, leaves a window open for China to kind of come in and fill that gap, which is not in any way positive for us. [2:25:16] Just another follow-up on that, there's talk of a consolidation of AFRICON into one of the other COCOMs, whether it be URCOM, CENTCOM, or even the talk of a bigger one, U.S. International Command. [2:25:30] You know, your predecessor, General Langley, when I spoke with him, was not something that he agreed with. [2:25:36] He believed that AFRICOM still need to kind of be there and independent, especially with a growing terrorist threat there. [2:25:42] Do you agree that, you know, we should still keep operating AFRICOM as one of the COCOMs there and not consolidate it into another one? [2:25:49] Congressman, my inputs to this discussion have been consistent in that the complexities and the security challenges of Africa, I think, need an organization that remains focused on the continent. [2:26:00] Whether or not that is a combatant command, a subunified command, or some other organization, I think is worthy of debate, as long as they have the authorities that are necessary to go ahead and execute. [2:26:10] I think this operation we did over the weekend is a great example of where Brad Cooper and CENTCOM and the rest of the world were very much focused in the Middle East. [2:26:18] We've been able to maintain the focus on the continent and the counterterrorism threats over the last several months that allowed the development of this target and the execution over the weekend. [2:26:26] All right. Well, thank you for that. And again, right, I think it is, as you said, right, important to have an organization that could be distinctly focused on AFRICOM as well as the other COCOMs around the nation. [2:26:39] And this is something that came into play over years as to where we need to put our focus and put our attention. [2:26:46] And when we needed to kind of build there, as we saw with CENTCOM, when there was a time where that area needed to be focused on, we've created that command. [2:26:52] So hopefully that continues. But thank you all for your questions, and I yield back. [2:26:57] The gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Sorensen. [2:27:01] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the Assistant Secretary, to the Admiral and the General. [2:27:08] Thank you for your service and your leadership to our nation. [2:27:11] I'd first like to offer my condolences to the loved ones of the 13 service members who have been killed in the war in Iran, [2:27:18] and the hundreds of service members who have been wounded. Like so many Americans, I remain deeply frustrated by President Trump's decision to put our country into war. [2:27:30] Last week, Pentagon officials testified the war has already cost $29 billion to the taxpayer, and billions will be needed to replenish. [2:27:39] Now, all the while, gas prices are nearly double what they used to be before Donald Trump started the war. [2:27:45] My neighbors can't afford this. And strategically, our country cannot afford the dangerous position that we now find ourselves in. [2:27:53] Iran still has nuclear material, and the Strait of Hormuz remains closed. [2:27:57] But the facts matter. We're in a worse position today than before Trump started the war. [2:28:05] To Assistant Secretary Zimmerman, what is the strategy that we should be telling Americans on how we're going to end this? [2:28:11] Congressman, my view, and I think the testimony you've heard today, is that we are not in a worse position when it comes to our national security interests than before the war. [2:28:25] So I would respectfully push back on that point. [2:28:28] So you said that we're executing a blockade. A blockade is an act of war. No, that means that we are in a war. [2:28:34] We are executing. We are doing a very effective blockade. [2:28:40] So do we have a strategy of how to get out of the mess? I mean, can we call it a mess? [2:28:46] Well, the White House is engaged in negotiations of the highest order as we speak to arrive at the right solution. [2:28:54] I think we heard our ranking members say that there have been a lot of negotiations, but we don't know who those negotiations are with. [2:29:01] If we meet in a classified setting, could you tell me who those negotiations are being held with? [2:29:07] I think we could go into a little more detail. [2:29:10] We've seen the reporting that Russia has been providing intelligence to Iran. [2:29:14] Mr. Zimmerman, what assistance has Russia been providing Iran? [2:29:17] Perhaps that'd be best to defer to the closed session as well. [2:29:22] Could you confirm that Russia is working with Iran to undermine the efforts of the United States? [2:29:28] Russia and Iran have a long-term partnership, and we can talk in further detail. [2:29:36] Have we taken steps to get Russia to stop working with and sharing intelligence with Iran? [2:29:41] Let's talk further. [2:29:43] President Trump is spending roughly a billion taxpayer dollars a day on this war. [2:29:49] One billion dollars a day. [2:29:51] Mr. Zimmerman, can you explain how we're spending a billion dollars a day if we are, as you say, we're in a ceasefire? [2:29:58] I think the estimate you got from Mr. Hurst when he was testifying was the cost of the war to date have been $29 billion, and the department is continuing to evaluate those numbers. [2:30:18] Certainly, and Admiral Cooper would have more expertise on this issue, but maintaining a blockade involves some degree of cost as well. [2:30:30] So I should just say that to my neighbors who are going into massive credit card debt because they can't afford the gas at the gas station, that that should be the answer? [2:30:39] I'll defer to you on what you say to your neighbors. [2:30:43] What I would say is the president would not be undertaking the actions he is if they were not in the interests of U.S. citizens. [2:30:49] Well, you know, if President Trump was serious about preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon or having this capability, he would not have blown up the nuclear deal in 2018. [2:31:06] He would have negotiated a new deal if he is, in fact, the negotiator, if he is the dealmaker that he thinks he is, but he has not done that. [2:31:14] And if President Trump insists on spending a billion dollars a day, I'd love to talk to him about how we provide school lunches to children or ending homelessness or making sure that people can afford their health care or the massive credit card debt that we are going to see massive defaults in just a matter of months if people can't fill their gas tanks with the liquid that they have in their bank accounts. [2:31:39] Mr. Chairman, I yield back. [2:31:41] The gentleman yields back, Chair, and I recognize the gentlelady from New Hampshire, Ms. Goodlander. [2:31:45] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [2:31:46] Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. [2:31:49] I want to start with terrorism, which is a through line in both of your testimonies. [2:31:53] Actually, all three of your testimonies. [2:31:56] Mr. Zimmerman, you wrote in your written testimony that the ISIS threat has been successfully reduced to a level that Iraqi and Syrian forces can manage with scoped and targeted U.S. assistance. [2:32:08] Admiral, you testified in your written statement that in the rearview mirror two decades of the global war on terror operations fade increasingly in the distance behind us. [2:32:20] You also acknowledge, though, at the same time that large parts of Syria remain under marginal control by the government. [2:32:28] And, Admiral, I'm glad you addressed this in your written testimony. [2:32:34] You brought our attention to what was a really shocking and extremely troubling development earlier this year. [2:32:45] Last year, you point out that ISIS attacks in Syria led to the deaths of two service members and to an American civilian interpreter. [2:32:57] You also testified that earlier this year, in January, there was a mass prison outbreak in northeast Syria. [2:33:04] Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a February 20th, 2026 article from The Wall Street Journal entitled, quote, [2:33:14] U.S. intelligence says at least 15,000 at large after ISIS detention camp collapses in Syria. [2:33:22] Without objection. [2:33:23] Admiral, you have noted that this development raises serious concerns because of the nature of the detainees who are now at large. [2:33:37] Can you explain to us how this happened? [2:33:40] Mr. Congressman, thank you very much for the question. [2:33:45] Yeah, as you recall, back in December and January, the Syrian army moved from its positions in western Syria and then maneuvered east, [2:33:54] pushing what was then the SDF, the Syrian Democratic Forces, up into their traditional lands. [2:34:00] In the course of doing so, they took full custody of these camps, as you described, and then redistributed the people from the camps throughout Syria. [2:34:10] Admiral, what are we going to do to prevent large-scale ISIS reconstitution as a result of these thousands of detainees who are now at large? [2:34:18] Congressman, we've moved the Joint Task Force, OIR Headquarters, who has the lead in keeping our eye on ISIS, from Iraq, now in Jordan. [2:34:26] We've continued to work with a large— [2:34:28] But am I right, Admiral, that Operation Inherent Resolve, OIR, is coming to a conclusion in just a few weeks' time? [2:34:34] That's not correct, ma'am. [2:34:36] So— [2:34:37] We continue to operate with a large coalition focused on the— [2:34:39] Isn't the end date September 2026? [2:34:41] That—that is—we're—not—not precisely accurate. [2:34:46] The most accurate way to describe it is our presence in Iraq comes to an end by previous agreement in September. [2:34:54] Operation Inherent Resolve continues. [2:34:56] And we have 90 countries focused on this effort. [2:34:58] Admiral, I'll be following up with detailed questions for the record on this. [2:35:02] General, am I right that terrorism is the most acute threat you're facing right now in AFRICOM? [2:35:08] That's correct. [2:35:09] And it's pretty eye-popping to see just the rise in terrorism-related fatalities last year alone spike to a level we have never seen before. [2:35:23] Is it accurate that Russian-backed militant groups are a big piece of what's fueling the threat of terrorism in AFRICOM right now? [2:35:32] Congresswoman, I'm not sure it's accurate to say it's fueling it, but I—it is very clear it is doing very little to stem it or to reduce it. [2:35:43] Well, you point out in your written testimony that under the guise of counterterrorism operations, Russia right now is making bank. [2:35:51] You described Africa as Putin's purse. [2:35:54] You point out that Vladimir Putin has generated more than $2.5 billion in revenue since 2022. [2:36:04] Is that set back our interests and priorities in AFRICOM? [2:36:08] Congresswoman, it is—that is true that Russia is extracting billions of dollars in gold, uranium, and human capital to fight their war and fuel their war machine. [2:36:19] Russia is also fueling its war machine thanks to President Trump's decision to give Vladimir Putin and his regime another pass at collecting billions of dollars in oil revenue. [2:36:33] And I—I—I know this is outside of your decisional lanes, but I cannot think of anything worse for our country's security than funding our adversaries because of this war of choice in Iran. [2:36:47] General A's time's expired. Chair, and I recognize General A from Maryland. Ms. Elfwood. [2:36:51] Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Admiral, thank you for taking the time yesterday to chat about some of these offline—issues offline. [2:36:57] I want to join all of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle here on centering the—the 14 service members that were lost in their families. [2:37:04] And we, I think, have some spirited debate over definitions of obliterated or significantly degraded. [2:37:11] I would venture to say, though, that Twitter diplomacy, the damage of that, the danger of wargaming by social media, [2:37:19] I—I think between the tweets on Easter, what we saw yesterday, even the comments just an hour ago while we were sitting here in this committee room by the president, unequivocally make your jobs more difficult. [2:37:30] And I think two things can be true here. We can all agree that we cannot have a nuclear Iran. [2:37:35] And at the same time, my constituents, just like everybody's constituents, are asking us, as members of Congress and myself and all of us here, [2:37:43] as members of the Oversight Committee for our Armed Services, how is this going to come to an end? [2:37:48] For many reasons. The safety of our service members, the safety of civilians in the region, the untold billions of dollars we are spending here, [2:37:56] and, of course, the other economic ramifications of this conflict. [2:38:00] So I do want to talk about—Admiral, you and I talked about civilian casualties yesterday in preparation for this. [2:38:06] And I do want to circle back, Mr. Zimmerman, on this question about the Civilian-Military Coordination Center, [2:38:11] and I would love to take you up on visiting Tampa and seeing that firsthand. [2:38:15] It's also true, and I think conflict after conflict over the last few decades, we have to appreciate that your military operations alone are not going to deliver stability to the region. [2:38:25] We have to think about broader governance. We have to think about humanitarian efforts and civilian safety. [2:38:30] So, Mr. Zimmerman, I think we're in a bit of an interregnum when it comes to this particular function, whether—where it lives, where it lives. [2:38:39] Can you commit to this committee when that decision is made that you're going to be forthright with us and bring that to us, [2:38:44] and perhaps even seek our feedback on that? [2:38:47] Congresswoman, as you say, the decision is—any decision is pending, and when it is made, Congress will be privy to that decision. [2:38:57] I think it's incredibly important, not just in this conflict, but in any conflicts ahead. [2:39:02] I want to move on. Admiral Cooper, can you tell me, as we bring material and tankers on our strike aircraft, [2:39:09] what's the route that they would take from the east coast of the United States to CENTCOM? [2:39:14] What route would they take into the region? [2:39:16] Ma'am, without talking operational specifics, they obviously generally fly through North Africa or Europe. [2:39:24] Okay. And families that had to evacuate from Bahrain and other CENTCOM bases, where did they go? [2:39:30] They were distributed between Italy, Germany, and any number of places in the United States that they elected to go. [2:39:37] Okay. And obviously, I think we can all remember between Iraq and Afghanistan, when we've had casualties, we've often treated them in locations in Europe, [2:39:45] where our wounded have been hospitalized and treated—where have our wounded been hospitalized in this conflict before coming home? [2:39:52] They've been treated initially and launched dual, as has been the case in the past, and then moved to the United States here in Washington, in particular to Walter Reed, if necessary. [2:40:00] And you've heard some— Thank you. And we've heard some of the concerns on both sides of the aisle, again, on not just our casualties in terms of our service members, [2:40:08] but also kind of untold on our equipment. If we had damage to a ship and couldn't make it all the way to a home port, where would that maintenance take place? [2:40:17] Well, ma'am, that's a hypothetical right now, because we've had no damage to it. [2:40:20] Sure. Hypothetically. [2:40:21] But there are a number of U.S. military installations in Europe and in Asia, in particular, we could go to. [2:40:26] Okay. [2:40:27] So, I think it's important—I'm sorry I had to run through that battery of questions, but I think it's important we talk about we are not in this conflict alone. [2:40:34] Even if some of our NATO allies are not as engaged as perhaps the president would like, we still have very important capabilities and very important contingency plans that flow through our European allies. [2:40:44] And on that note, Admiral Cooper, we talked a little bit about the contributions and the capabilities of Ukraine in this conflict. [2:40:54] Can you just, in my remaining 55 seconds, talk a little bit about how they have helped utilize what they have learned in their conflict with Russia to be of aid to your service members under your command? [2:41:05] Yes, ma'am. I think most notably we've taken a large number of tactics, techniques, and procedures that have been practiced by Ukraine and adopted them as our own and applied them in a methodical, successful way. [2:41:18] There's also been several other instances where we've used their capability to partner directly with GCC nations to enhance their capability. [2:41:25] And there's some other ways we can talk about it in a classified environment. [2:41:28] I appreciate that. And I think the overarching question of how does this come to an end for folks watching at home, I wish we could have that conversation here, but I look forward to that heartfelt conversation. [2:41:38] We've had a number of closed-door briefings. I have not yet been satisfied with the answers. [2:41:41] I hope, Mr. Chair, in the next hour we can get some more answers so I can bring them home over the course of this afternoon. [2:41:49] With that, I yield. Thank you, Mr. Chair. [2:41:51] Chair, I recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Dr. McCormick. [2:41:53] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [2:41:56] Gentlemen, thank you for being with us here today. [2:41:59] General Anderson, good to see you again. [2:42:01] Excited about what's going on in your command, especially with AFRICOM and all the significant challenges you had there. [2:42:10] One of the things I wanted to address specifically with your command, we worry about anti-drone defenses, [2:42:16] especially considering what the Hezbollah has, which is across the Strait, and what you have to deal with in Djibouti specifically. [2:42:24] How do you think we're doing in preparing you for that defense, specifically for that threat? [2:42:30] Yes, Congressman, I appreciate that. For the Integrated Air Missile Defense, we work very closely with CENTCOM and Admiral Cooper on coordinating that, [2:42:39] especially in that Horn of Africa area. [2:42:41] We do have the minimum required right now, but as the threat continues to evolve, that's an investment area we'll need continued investment in. [2:42:48] We are also working closely with our partners there, with the French, to integrate their mirages as well as their radar systems, [2:42:54] so we can have a combined and integrated defense for that piece in particular. [2:42:58] The other area that you highlight that I think is even more critical is the counter UAS across the continent. [2:43:02] As we become more expeditionary, looking into and evolving our defenses in order to protect our forces in expeditionary environments is going to be more and more critical. [2:43:10] I think also equally important is, as we look at these emerging technologies, we use the opportunities in Africa to experiment. [2:43:16] And so having some directed, focused effort in Africa to actually do some of that battle lab-type experimentation for emerging technologies will pay dividends for the entirety of the joint force. [2:43:27] Good. I think one of the things I'm worried about, obviously, with Africa, having one of the few continents, if not the only continent, that has an expanding population, [2:43:35] obviously massive poverty problems, that it's going to constantly supply us with new terrorists. [2:43:40] So I think that threat will be super real in your area, and I hope with the decimation of Iran that we can have less funding for Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations. [2:43:50] I think they've been funding for decades now, and I hope you agree with that assessment, too, that hopefully that will help our assessment of that area and the funding of terrorist organizations. [2:43:59] I do agree, and I also think, though, these organizations are very resilient, and they'll look for alternative forms of funding, [2:44:05] which is concerning for us, the Houthi al-Shabaab connection that seems to be growing, of how that may develop in the future, [2:44:11] as Iran is no longer the same sponsor for the Houthis they were in the past. [2:44:15] I agree with you entirely. Admiral Cooper, one of the things I thought was interesting, seeing the 31st MU deploy now into the Persian Gulf and to see what's going on with the challenge we have with Iran. [2:44:27] When I was on the 31st MU, we were mostly focused on Korea at the time, and I was on the original USS Tripoli. [2:44:35] We called it the Kripoli back in the day. We actually were on the retirement float of that ship, which went, I think, dead four times in the water without any attack. [2:44:45] And we had open sewage flowing all over the place. It was a horrible ship. Good to see a new ship, but we don't have enough shipbuilding, right? [2:44:52] And I feel like this is a perfect example of why wouldn't we have a Marine expeditionary unit right there, ready to go, what kind of impact it can have in that region. [2:45:00] And when we don't have that, when we have shortcoming in shipping or expeditionary availability, it can really affect us. [2:45:07] What do you think our biggest concern is in our preparation for the future of Marine expeditionary units and the shipping? [2:45:13] Well, sir, first, you'll be proud to know USS Tripoli is operating at the top of their game today and playing an indispensable role in a number of areas, [2:45:22] particularly implementing the blockade and the 31st MU, which I used to have operational command of several tours ago, also an indispensable role. [2:45:29] I think if we just look to the future, just in speaking in broad generalities, these are decisions made by the Department of the Navy. [2:45:36] I'd really defer to them of what those things should look like. [2:45:39] But if I just look at the force structure I have today between carrier strike groups, the cruisers and the destroyer force, [2:45:46] and the Marines and the amphibious readiness group, I think we're well postured to deal with a broad range of contingencies. [2:45:52] And I'm speaking just from my perspective. [2:45:55] I think other combatant commanders would express the same perspective. [2:45:58] Oh, good. I hope you're right. [2:45:59] I think one of the biggest things that our chairman has focused on, thank you, Chairman Rogers, for what you do, [2:46:05] is the way we contract, the way we hold people accountable, the way we streamline this process, [2:46:09] because obviously I think our best contract right now is about 50 percent over budget and 18 months behind. [2:46:14] So I'm hoping we can get back on track with the way that we approach this, both from the Pentagon in conjunction with what the armed services are doing, [2:46:22] because I think that's really important to the future. [2:46:24] I don't know if you, Mr. Zimmerman, if you have anything to add as far as our security in Africa and our defenses and our posturing, [2:46:31] how well we're prepared for that and what we look for in the future. [2:46:34] Thank you, sir. And in policy, we enjoy a very close relationship with AFRICOM, [2:46:40] and I very much appreciate General Anderson's approach. [2:46:44] As you have read in our national defense strategy, [2:46:48] we are looking particularly at terrorist threats that could target the homeland. [2:46:51] We're also looking at countering China in ways that specifically relate to our ability to flow forces [2:46:56] and working with operational independent partners. [2:46:58] Gentlemen, time's expired. [2:46:59] And I recognize a gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Vindman. [2:47:01] Thank you, Chair. [2:47:02] So, gentlemen, thank you so much for being here today. [2:47:05] I want to start with a quote from Sun Tzu that I'm sure many of you are familiar with. [2:47:09] Sun Tzu wrote, [2:47:12] Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. [2:47:15] Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. [2:47:18] And I think that's the crux of the situation that we find ourselves in in Iran today. [2:47:23] So I, along with my colleagues, many of my colleagues on this committee, [2:47:26] are deeply concerned about the administration's actions in Iran [2:47:30] and that those are tactics without strategy. [2:47:32] And my constituents, many of them feel like we're losing. [2:47:35] But one thing is for sure, we know for sure that gas prices have skyrocketed, [2:47:40] inflation is increasing, and there's no real end in sight right now. [2:47:46] Despite the significant tactical and operational destruction of Iran's military, [2:47:50] the Strait of Hormuz remains closed for all intents and purposes, [2:47:55] and is causing significant damage to the global economy. [2:47:59] In fact, the IMF has already said that global GDP will be 3% lower because the Strait is closed. [2:48:06] And my constituents are feeling that every day in the form of rising costs. [2:48:10] In addition to the petroleum products, obviously fertilizer prices have doubled. [2:48:15] And I'm sure you've heard that today as well. [2:48:17] And we're at the beginning of planting season. [2:48:19] So that means the shock to food prices, grocery prices, [2:48:23] will start to hit in the fall during harvest time. [2:48:26] Those are pretty significant costs. [2:48:30] And they're being felt even more broadly by our international partners [2:48:35] that are susceptible to these types of shocks. [2:48:38] So I'm frustrated because this was foreseeable. [2:48:41] I mean, we could have foreseen that the Iranians would have closed the Strait. [2:48:46] that's been demonstrated in numerous war games for decades. [2:48:50] And it was avoidable because ultimately this is a war of choice. [2:48:54] The President selected the timing for this conflict [2:48:57] without ever making the case to the American people and asking for authorization. [2:49:02] So as we move out from here, I hope we can focus on the strategic objectives [2:49:06] and not be distracted by the red herring of the tactical and operational objectives. [2:49:12] I mean, for all intents and purposes, [2:49:13] sinking their Navy is like the same as saying we've eliminated their horse cavalry [2:49:18] or we've knocked out all their galleons. [2:49:22] It's not really the thing that we need to be focused on. [2:49:25] And that's not what the constituents are concerned about. [2:49:27] Right now, there is no real plan to deal with Iran's nuclear program [2:49:33] and to open the Strait. [2:49:35] So let me turn attention a little bit to the drone question. [2:49:38] Admiral, there's a Task Force Scorpion, which is a battalion-sized element [2:49:44] that's purpose-built to employ Group 3 one-way attack drones. [2:49:48] Drawing on your first-hand experience on that formation, [2:49:51] what one or two lessons can we draw for CENTCOM and, more broadly, for U.S. military? [2:49:59] Congressman, thank you for that. [2:50:01] I think the leading-edge work we've done in offensive fires [2:50:06] associated with employing an offensive one-way attack represent a dramatic increase [2:50:11] and our focus on drone domination gives us more options and makes us a more lethal force. [2:50:16] And is that a capability that will help us reopen the Strait? [2:50:20] I wouldn't want to talk about any specific capability, but they are one tool in the toolkit. [2:50:25] Absent actually controlling the terrain and ground operations, [2:50:31] is there a way to open the Strait? [2:50:33] Is it just fire control or do we have to actually control the terrain? [2:50:38] Congressman, I think there's a broader discussion best discussed in a classified forum. [2:50:43] There's a lot of military options here and lots of tools in the toolkit [2:50:49] and those will be driven ultimately by policy. [2:50:52] Well, this is another area where I'm afraid the shoe, the other shoe is about to drop, [2:50:57] is that the only way to really to get at this problem set is to deploy ground forces and seize terrain. [2:51:03] And the American people are not prepared for that and they need to be ahead of time, [2:51:08] not like this conflict was initiated. [2:51:11] Admiral Cooper, I want to turn attention to the deadly attack that killed our soldiers in Kuwait on March 1st, [2:51:19] including one of my constituents in Spotsylvania County. [2:51:22] When will the investigation into that incident be complete? [2:51:25] Congressman, that the incident itself is coming to, the investigation itself is coming to a conclusion. [2:51:31] We have to be hearing about it and I can talk about the specifics of what occurred in a classified environment. [2:51:36] Well, I think that would be important. [2:51:38] Okay, I think it will be important because as I know very well and you know very well, [2:51:42] these are investigations that have a finite suspense to them. [2:51:46] And so these are not kind of like kicking the can down the road. [2:51:49] And I hope that you will commit today to sharing the results of that investigation with this committee. [2:51:54] I'd be happy to, sir. [2:51:55] Thank you. [2:51:56] With that, I yield back. [2:51:57] Gentleman yields back. [2:51:58] Chair now recognizes a gentleman from New Jersey, Dr. Conaway. [2:52:02] Took me by surprise there, Mr. Chairman. [2:52:09] Gentlemen, thank you for presenting yourself to us. [2:52:13] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the ranking member for holding this hearing. [2:52:17] I first want to extend my thoughts and prayers to the families and loved ones who are currently serving around the world. [2:52:23] We've lost 14 service members. [2:52:26] Hundreds have been injured. [2:52:28] And I should say at the outset that these are the dearest costs of war, as I don't need to tell you. [2:52:39] But I often don't get calculated when we talk about the costs of war to the American people, [2:52:45] the budget numbers that need to be put aside to deal with the veterans, the families who go on living and need care. [2:52:54] Gentlemen, Admiral and General, your job is obviously a very tough one. [2:53:01] And you have to execute orders given by the Commander-in-Chief as is your responsibility. [2:53:07] And I want to acknowledge the task work that you have undertaken on behalf of our country. [2:53:13] I am dismayed to hear statements about no quarter and we're going to wipe out a civilization. [2:53:20] And I just have to raise that as a person sitting on this panel. [2:53:27] I know that you really can't answer that. [2:53:29] Well, you did answer it. [2:53:30] You said we're going to follow the rules of the law of armed conflict. [2:53:36] And I appreciate that. [2:53:37] And that gives not only myself but other members on this panel, I think, in the services as well, of your commitment to that. [2:53:46] I'm also dismayed that there doesn't appear to be a strategy to end this war with all deliberate speed. [2:53:52] And it's concerning, obviously, to the American people giving the costs associated with this war. [2:53:59] Recently, Yale came out with a study that American people are spending $40 billion on fuel costs, [2:54:05] that American families are going to spend about $3,500 on such expenses at year's end. [2:54:14] And, of course, sadly, the President has said that this microeconomy, this household economy, is not important to him. [2:54:23] Those are paraphrasing his own statements. [2:54:25] But it is important to my constituents and to the many people across this country who understand that they are paying for this war. [2:54:34] And because the American people are paying for this war, they have a right to know what strategy is going to be undertaken to end this war. [2:54:43] So, Mr. Zimmerman, could you please outline how we're going to get to the end of this conflict? [2:54:52] This conflict is not going to be ended, in my view, by military action alone. [2:54:56] It's going to take negotiation. [2:54:57] You've had waffling back and forth. [2:54:59] It's over. [2:55:00] It's not over. [2:55:01] We're going to get a deal. [2:55:02] We don't have a deal. [2:55:03] And it doesn't appear to the American people, and rightly so, that we have a plan to end this conflict. [2:55:11] So can you enlighten us? [2:55:12] How are we going to get to the end of this conflict and put a stop to the enormous strain that is placing on our budgets as a nation and on the micro budgets of the many people in this country who have to get about the business of living and working and raising their family and preparing for the future? [2:55:30] Mr. Congressman, thank you. [2:55:34] As you know, we have a ceasefire, and that is the current state of affairs. [2:55:37] For the blockade going on, but go ahead. [2:55:39] And the White House is engaged in high-level negotiations to reach a resolution that will be in the interest of the American people and advance their safety and prosperity. [2:55:51] Any idea, again, when we're going to get to the end of this conflict and end it? [2:55:56] Personally, I have to tell you, I think we should declare victory and leave and get our people home. [2:55:58] The best way to protect them is to pull them out of this conflict and lower, with the appropriate cautions, our presence there in that region and begin to repair the great damage that this war has caused to our allies and to the world economy. [2:56:16] Never mind to understate the damage to our own economy. [2:56:20] Let me move on, and getting back to this, again, this cost question. [2:56:25] On April 29th, the Committee was provided information on the costs of war. [2:56:31] The Comptroller was here and said, provided a number of $25 billion at that time. [2:56:35] We have heard repeatedly in the press that it's a billion-dollar day in war, and now it's somewhat almost 30 days later. [2:56:43] Well, not quite 30 days later, but now we're told that the number has just risen to $25 billion. [2:56:48] It seems out of step with what we're hearing about what the daily costs of war are, and I am concerned that we're not adequately accounting for the veterans and their care going forward. [2:56:58] So what are the costs of war? What can you tell us, and when we report to us, as you promised and others? [2:57:04] The gentleman's time is expired. [2:57:05] The cost of war are. [2:57:06] Chair, now I recognize the gentleman from Missouri. [2:57:07] Mr. Bell. [2:57:10] Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. [2:57:13] General Anderson, it's good to see you again, and I appreciate you taking the time last month to discuss the challenges facing your AOR. [2:57:21] I want to begin with Cinca. [2:57:23] In the past few months, several of our bases in the region have been targeted and severely damaged. [2:57:30] More than 200 military assets, including hangers, barracks, radar systems, and other critical infrastructure relied upon by our service members have also reportedly been destroyed or damaged. [2:57:44] Simultaneously, the Pentagon's projected cost of this unauthorized war appears to continue shifting from roughly $25 billion one day to $29 billion the next. [2:57:55] Importantly, those estimates still do not appear to include MILCON requirements needed to repair and rebuild damaged installation and bases. [2:58:06] The Pentagon Comptroller has stated publicly that those costs are not yet included because, quote, we do not know what our future posture is going to be, end quote. [2:58:19] That uncertainty risks sending the wrong signal to regional partners and allies at a time when many already question America's long-term commitment and staying power in the region. [2:58:32] Admiral Cooper, you even said before your confirmation hearing that, and I'm going to quote, military ties with regional partners enhances the United States' deterrence efforts and ability to respond to crisis, end quote. [2:58:47] Admiral Cooper, do you stand by that? [2:58:50] Congressman, absolutely, and we've seen this play out in very pragmatic terms with regional partners defending Americans. [2:58:57] And I'm going to reclaim my time just because I'm short on time. [2:59:00] Do our bases and forward posture in the CENTCOM AOR provide strategic advantages critical to U.S. global force projection, deterrence, and regional stability? [2:59:13] Absolutely, sir. [2:59:14] Now, in your opinion, would further posture reductions or base closures undermine our global standing or create opportunities for adversaries like Iran, Russia, or China to expand their influence? [2:59:27] I think those decisions are ultimately done from a policy perspective, but from a military perspective, our posture is very helpful, and we've seen that play out in our achievements during this operation. [2:59:38] And reducing that posture could have negative impacts? [2:59:45] Hypothetically, yes, sir. [2:59:47] Okay. [2:59:49] Mr. Zimmerman, is this administration actively considering additional posture reductions in the region once the unauthorized war ends? [3:00:02] Congressman, I'm not aware of any active consider—you know, right now we're focused on— [3:00:07] You answered it. [3:00:08] You're not aware—you're saying that you're not aware of any active considerations of reductions? [3:00:14] We are—we constantly review and evaluate our— [3:00:17] I know that. [3:00:18] —our posture considerations. [3:00:19] But are you— [3:00:20] If there are any future posture decisions related to CENTCOM or any theater, they would be done in full appreciation for the threats and the factors that pertain to that. [3:00:29] But currently, are you considering any additional posture reductions in the region? [3:00:33] I'm—I'm not aware of any current considerations. [3:00:35] Okay. [3:00:36] Because what concerns me is that we already are creating significant uncertainty for our allies because of this war. [3:00:43] The objectives have repeatedly shifted. [3:00:46] The goalposts continue to move, and we risk drawing ourselves into an open-ended quagmire. [3:00:52] At the same time, across the globe, this administration appears to be reevaluating posture which does nothing but increased skepticism from our allies, from Germany to delays involving a brigade deployment to Poland, and now growing uncertainty surrounding our long-term posture in CENTCOM. [3:01:10] We can't continue pursuing policies that create instability in our global posture. [3:01:17] We can confidence amongst our allies and partners and ultimately create openings for our adversaries to expand their influence. [3:01:24] And so quickly, I want to shift gears to AFRICOM. [3:01:27] AFRICOM General Anderson, following up on our previous discussion regarding instability and extremist threats in North Africa, how does AFRICOM currently assess the evolving threat environment across the region? [3:01:40] I appreciate that. [3:01:41] We see the terrorists continuing to take advantage of ungoverned space across Africa, primarily in West Africa, as you highlighted. [3:01:51] So this is why our focus is illuminating that and understanding what that threat is doing. [3:01:55] And I want to say this real quick. [3:01:56] Where do you see the greatest risks as well as opportunities for the United States to strengthen regional partnerships and counter-violent extremism? [3:02:03] I think the greatest opportunities are with those willing and able partners right now. [3:02:06] We've seen that with some like Morocco, Nigeria, Kenya, and others. [3:02:10] There's many other countries. [3:02:11] But finding those willing and able partners and partnering with them is where we see the greatest opportunity to counter this threat. [3:02:17] Gentlemen, time's expired. [3:02:19] Thank you, sir. [3:02:20] This will bring us to the conclusion of the open portion of today's hearing. [3:02:25] We will now adjourn this hearing and reconvene in room 2212 at 115. [3:02:32] For are you now in the answers to our verse 20? [3:02:33] For are you now in the comments?