Bong Go asks Lotoc how he became head of the NBI Cybercrime Division — ANC

[0:00] Sir, balik muna tayo dito sa ating bayan. Masada lang malayo, inaabot natin. [0:06] To our Mr. Witness, some questions lang po, no? [0:10] Yes po, Your Honor. [0:12] Nabanggit niyo kahapon na 20 years na po kayo sa NBI? [0:15] 12 years, Your Honor. [0:18] Be specific, anong year po? [0:20] 2014, Your Honor. Nagsimula po ako from the NBI Academy. [0:24] 2014? [0:25] 2014. 12 years na po, Your Honor. [0:27] Ah, hindi 20 years. [0:28] Hindi 20 years, Your Honor. [0:29] 12, Your Honor. [0:31] 12 years. [0:33] So, kailan ho kayo nag-head ng cybercrime? [0:39] February 2023, Your Honor. [0:44] February of 2023. [0:47] Maupay na Adlao pala? [0:49] Maupay po ang Adlao, yapon, sir. [0:52] To our prosecutor? [0:55] May hapon, sir. May hapon. [0:57] Maupay na kulop? [0:59] Maupay man. [1:02] Kailan ho kayo naging RD? [1:05] Um, July 2025, sir. [1:09] July 2025. [1:10] So, naging cybercrime head kayo February of 2023? [1:15] Three, sir. [1:16] Before that, sa ano kayo na-assign? [1:18] Ah, chief ng digital forensics, sir. [1:21] 2022. [1:22] 2020. [1:23] So, meron ho bang nag-recommend sa inyo or wala na, nag-apply lang kayo o sino nag-lag-med? [1:32] Nang ano po, sir? [1:33] Naging head kayo ng cybercrime? [1:37] Um, as chief of the digital forensics, I was designated by the then director, Medardo J. Delemos. [1:45] Then, as chief of the cybercrime division, I was also designated by the then director, Medardo J. Delemos, sir. [1:55] 2016 to 2022, sa ano kayo na-assign? [1:58] Um, 2016, I think, anti-organized crime and transnational crime. [2:04] To 2018? [2:05] AOTCD yun, you're honored. [2:07] Then, 2018, nasa cybercrime division na po ako. [2:11] So, hindi po kayo head doon? [2:13] Hindi pa. As investigation agent po, noong 2018, sir. [2:16] Anyway, nabanggit niyo po kanina about sworn affidavit. [2:22] And then, nabanggit niyo about journalists, no, na part ng press conference. [2:27] Tama ho ba? [2:28] Yes, sir. [2:28] Marami sila, di ba? Marami nabanggit sa mga karang araw, including last week, di ba? [2:34] Bakit po hindi kinuha ang sariling sworn affidavit ng mga journalists na personal na naroon po sa press conference? [2:46] Sahalip ay affidavits po ng agents na naglalaman po ng inyong summary ng mga sinabi po ninyo. [2:52] Bakit hindi nyo pinrosige yung mga affidavits na mga nandoon sa... [2:57] Yes, Your Honor. [2:58] Nung nag-appear po yung mga media personalities na nag-participate noong online press conference at the November 23, 2024, [3:05] may kasama ho silang lawyer, and then we want them to execute an affidavit. [3:12] Ang advice sa kanila ng lawyer, hindi na raw. [3:16] Pwede lang sila mag-participate ng interview. [3:19] Pwede sila mag-sign sa binin sa meeting. [3:21] So hindi na po namin pinilit. [3:22] So wala hong journalists or mga vloggers na kasama po doon sa sworn affidavit? [3:32] Wala ho. [3:33] Sa inyo lang? Purely puro po ito sa... [3:37] NBI. [3:38] Magaling sa NBI lang po? [3:39] Yes, sir. Kasi ayaw po ng lawyer nila na mag-execute sila ng affidavit. [3:45] Pero may kasama po silang lawyer doon, sir. [3:46] Yung mga detalye pong nakasaad sa inyong affidavit tungkol sa naganap na press conference, [3:51] galing ho ba ito sa personal knowledge ng mga agents o batay po sa sinabi ng mga journalists [3:56] na nakausap po ng agents pagkatapos? [4:00] Yes, Your Honor. Q&A yung mode nung interview at nag-reflect ho yan doon sa minutes of meeting [4:09] and then nag-execute ng affidavit yung nag-interview ng agent. [4:14] So magkasama po yung mga dokumento na yun, sir. [4:17] Mako-consider mo ba ito na second-hand account? [4:21] Paano nyo masigurong naging actual po yung pag-interpret ninyo sa mga sinabi? [4:30] Ano pong interpret, sir? [4:32] I mean, kung batay po ito sa second-hand account, [4:35] paano nyo masiguro na sakto, walang na idagdag, [4:39] o hindi na misinterpret sa pagitan na actual na sinabi ng mga journalists [4:43] at mga nakasulat sa inyong affidavit? [4:45] Yes, Your Honor. That's the reason why inauthenticate namin yung video [4:49] mula-simula hanggang sa matapos [4:53] para o hindi kami mawala sa tunay na nangyari. [4:58] That's the reason why it's re-unscribe din ang ating agent on case [5:01] kung ano laman ng video, kung ano yung naging tanungan doon [5:07] para o hindi kami mawala sa investigasyon namin. [5:09] And in fact, Your Honor, when we try to establish whether or not [5:14] nag-atter ba talaga ang vice-presidente na may kinausap na siyang tao [5:19] para pumatay sa tatlo, na confirmed namin ito noong November 26 video [5:25] kasi ni-reterate ng vice-presidente, in-admit niya, [5:29] instead na sinabi niyang hindi ko sinabi yun, [5:31] sinabi niya noong November 26 na video na indeed may kinausap na siyang tao [5:36] para pumatay doon sa tatlo. [5:39] So, nabuo yung aming investigation na [5:42] ang tawag po namin doon is [5:46] admission against interest [5:50] doon po sa ginawa ni vice-president during the [5:56] November 26, 2024, sir. [5:59] Anyway, last question na lang po. [6:00] On sedition, how can you, how do you reconcile the fact that [6:04] the vice-president discouraged her supporters from going to the streets [6:08] with a claim of inciting to sedition? [6:12] Ano po yung, sorry, sir? [6:14] On sedition charges, diwa? [6:15] Yes, yes, sir. [6:16] How do you reconcile the fact that the vice-president discouraged her supporters [6:20] from going to the streets with a claim of inciting to sedition? [6:25] Well, in inciting to sedition, Your Honor, [6:28] specifically in the case of People v. Nabong, [6:32] it is not necessary na magkaroon ng actual sedition. [6:36] The law also penalizes if the seditious words [6:40] would encourage people to do illegal acts [6:44] or to overthrow government. [6:46] In other words, if the speeches would stir up the people [6:49] to go against the government, [6:50] if the speeches would disturb the peace of the community, [6:54] if the speeches would undermine order and public security, [6:58] hindi ho nasasari na magkaroon ng actual na sedition. [7:01] That's under, uh... [7:02] Meron ho bang nagawa yung vice-presidente na... [7:07] yung gaya ng sinasabi nyo ngayon? [7:11] Nagawa pong inciting to sedition, sir? [7:14] Magkawo. [7:14] Based sa findings namin, sir, yes. [7:17] Based po sa findings namin. [7:20] Ganito po ang nangyari. [7:23] Kinumpare po namin based on the content and context [7:26] of the utterances made by the vice-president in November 23, 2024, [7:31] the utterances made by the vice-president in October 18, 2024, [7:36] then the utterances made by the vice-president in 26, November 2024, [7:41] and other facts and circumstances. [7:44] Nung Trinay po namin i-compare siya, [7:46] may nakita ho kami ng mga utterances [7:48] that would stir up the people against the government. [7:53] For example, Your Honor, [7:54] Noong October 18, [7:56] ang sabi ng vice-presidente, [7:58] walang number one ng Pilipinas na ito [8:00] hanggang number two lang ito para sa akin. [8:02] Wala itong number one. [8:04] Kinumparaho namin noong November 23, [8:06] ang sabi doon sa November 23, [8:08] I do not recognize anybody above me. [8:11] It's a reiteration doon sa kanyang sinabi. [8:14] That's number one, Your Honor. [8:16] Then number two, [8:17] may sinabi siya noong October 18, [8:19] na anong magagawa ko? [8:23] Hindi marunong maging presidente yung nakaupo. [8:25] O kasalanan ko ba yun? [8:27] And then, November 23, [8:29] kinumpara namin yun. [8:30] Ang sabi niya doon, [8:31] this country will go to hell [8:33] because the person na nakaupo [8:36] is hindi marunong maging presidente [8:37] and who is a liar. [8:39] So nakita namin yung pattern [8:40] at consistent na utterances. [8:42] Then tinira namin yung pangatlong line. [8:44] Ang sabi niya doon, [8:45] alam ko si BBM may limang impeachable offense, [8:48] pero papasa ba dyan sa house? [8:50] Sampira hindi. [8:51] Then pagdating sa November 23, [8:53] sinabi naman niya doon na [8:54] the president is lying through his teeth [8:57] para makuha lang niya yung bota ng mga tao. [9:00] Tapos minuran niya sila, [9:01] P.I.K., BBM, Lisa Marcos, [9:04] and former speaker of the house. [9:08] So tinignan namin, [9:09] sino ba yung nagsasalita? [9:11] Kung ang nagsasalita, [9:12] Your Honor, [9:13] is yung ikalawa sa pinakamataas na posisyon [9:16] in public, [9:17] at yun yung kanyang utterances, [9:18] definitely, [9:20] Your Honor, [9:21] there is a tendency [9:23] to steer up the people [9:24] against [9:25] lawful government. [9:28] Kindly wind up, [9:28] Senator Goh. [9:30] No more questions, [9:31] Mr. President. [9:32] Thank you, [9:33] Senator Judge Goh. [9:34] Senator Judge Padil [9:36] intimated to [9:37] the President Officer [9:38] that he will defer [9:39] his questions [9:40] to a later time. [9:42] Counsel, [9:43] for the respondent, [9:44] you may proceed [9:45] with your cross-examination. [9:47] Just a manifestation, [9:49] Your Honor, [9:49] in relation to [9:50] the query [9:52] or the manifestation [9:53] of Senator Judge Villanueva. [9:55] In relation to [9:56] the query of [9:57] No, no, [9:58] his manifestation, [9:59] Your Honor. [10:01] No need, [10:02] Counsel. [10:02] Proceed, [10:02] unless he asked you a question [10:04] to save in the court's time. [10:06] Please proceed [10:07] with your cross-examination. [10:08] All right. [10:08] I'll just transform it [10:10] into a question. [10:11] You were asked about [10:11] that December 2, [10:12] 2024 letter, [10:14] correct? [10:14] December 2, [10:15] yes, sir. [10:16] Oh. [10:16] That is the letter [10:18] where you gave a schedule [10:19] for the Vice President [10:20] to attend, [10:20] correct? [10:23] Yeah, [10:23] signed by our [10:24] Assistant Director. [10:25] The schedule that you gave [10:26] was November 11, [10:27] 2024, [10:28] at 10 a.m., [10:29] and then you gave [10:30] the address. [10:32] So, in other words... [10:32] Sinabi ko na huyang kahapon, [10:33] taipo grapikang error, [10:34] sir. [10:35] My question naman is this, [10:36] if tama yung [10:38] schedule sana [10:39] at nakapunta si [10:40] VP Sara, [10:42] would it have [10:42] affected your investigation? [10:44] Your Honor, [10:45] even up till now, [10:47] ready ho kaming [10:48] tanggapin kung anumang [10:50] information [10:50] na threat against [10:52] the life [10:52] ng Presidente, [10:53] continuous, [10:54] ng Vice Presidente, [10:55] continuous po yun. [10:56] In fact, [10:56] sabi ko nga kanina, [10:57] yung intelligence service namin [10:59] is may ginagawang monitoring [11:00] from time to time [11:01] dun sa threat [11:02] to life against [11:03] the Vice President, [11:05] President, etc. [11:06] Okay, [11:06] I'll move on to a new point. [11:08] Now, [11:08] let me show you [11:09] a portion [11:09] of the interview [11:10] of Dempsey Reyes [11:11] of the Philippine Daily [11:13] Inquirer. [11:14] Please direct your attention [11:15] to paragraph 13 [11:16] of the minutes [11:17] of the meeting. [11:17] This is also [11:18] the transcription [11:21] made by [11:22] Agent Calilong. [11:23] Page 173 [11:24] of Annex G9 [11:26] as well. [11:31] So, [11:32] here, [11:33] it says, [11:34] may press con kasi [11:35] earlier than that, [11:36] sabi niya na parang [11:37] sabi niya lang, [11:38] gusto daw siyang patayin daw [11:39] according to her [11:41] and his speaker. [11:42] That was during [11:43] a press conference [11:44] the day before [11:45] November 2022. [11:47] So, [11:48] considering that [11:49] this is part of [11:50] the minutes of the meetings, [11:51] this is also part [11:52] of the NBI's [11:53] own records, [11:54] correct? [11:55] Yes, sir. [11:55] Alright. [11:56] Now, [11:56] my question is this, [11:57] did you issue [11:58] a subpina [11:59] against [12:00] Speaker Martin Romualdez, [12:02] former Speaker [12:02] Martin Romualdez? [12:04] Did you issue [12:05] a subpina [12:05] kay Speaker Romualdez, [12:09] sir? [12:09] Yes. [12:11] Kasi, [12:12] ba't ako mag-issue [12:13] ng subpina? [12:13] Wala pa kami [12:14] sufficient na... [12:16] So, [12:17] what's the... [12:17] you did that issue? [12:18] Hindi kami nag-issue, [12:19] sir. [12:19] So, [12:20] in other words, [12:20] for VP Sara, [12:21] you issued [12:22] not just one, [12:23] but two subpinas. [12:24] But for the former [12:25] Speaker, [12:26] you did not issue [12:27] a subpina. [12:27] That's just a question. [12:28] There is an apparent [12:29] commission of the [12:30] crime for grave [12:31] threats and inciting [12:31] proceedings, [12:32] sir. [12:33] I see. [12:33] So, [12:34] for this particular [12:34] portion, [12:35] you just turned [12:36] a blind eye [12:37] and did that issue. [12:39] Anyway... [12:39] There is no [12:40] validated information [12:41] on that, sir. [12:42] Let the witness answer. [12:43] There was a question... [12:44] But based on your... [12:45] Kindly don't argue [12:46] with the witness. [12:47] But based on your [12:49] testimony yesterday, [12:51] you said that you [12:52] have a system [12:53] of evaluating factors, [12:55] correct? [12:56] My question to you [12:58] is, [12:58] based on that system, [12:59] does Martin Romualdez [13:01] have the capacity [13:02] to execute a death [13:04] threat, for example? [13:05] We haven't established [13:07] any apparent crime [13:09] committed by the [13:10] former Speaker, [13:11] Your Honor. [13:12] So, [13:12] hindi kami nag-dealt [13:13] diyan sa issue na iyan. [13:15] At any rate, [13:16] this minutes of the [13:17] meeting, [13:18] which you all [13:19] confirmed that [13:20] is part of the [13:21] NBI's own record, [13:22] isn't this information [13:23] regarding the death [13:24] threat against VP Sara? [13:25] Well, [13:26] ang sabi po diyan, [13:27] if I may read [13:29] my press con, [13:30] kasi earlier than that, [13:32] sabi niya, [13:33] parang, [13:34] sabi lang niya, [13:35] gusto daw, [13:36] siyang patayin daw, [13:38] according to her, [13:39] ni Speaker, [13:40] that was during [13:41] a press conference [13:42] the day before. [13:43] Precisely, [13:44] Your Honor, [13:44] the reason why [13:45] we issued a letter [13:46] noong November 22 [13:48] is to ask the [13:49] Vice President [13:50] kung ano ho yung [13:50] facts and circumstances [13:51] diyan sa issue na iyan. [13:52] But since hindi ho [13:54] nag-abirang Vice Presidente, [13:56] wala ho talaga [13:57] kaming mapagsimulan, [13:58] wala kaming validated [13:59] information. [14:00] But you issued [14:00] the subpoena [14:01] against Dempsey Reyes, [14:02] correct? [14:03] Yes, sir. [14:04] Pero ang tinanong nyo [14:05] kay Dempsey Reyes [14:06] yung case lang [14:07] against VP Sara. [14:09] Hindi nyo siya [14:09] tinanong ng threats [14:10] to her, [14:11] correct? [14:12] Well, [14:12] unang-una, [14:13] ang in-establish namin, [14:14] ang focus ho [14:15] ng investigation namin, [14:16] the reason why [14:16] we subpoena [14:18] the late Dempsey Reyes [14:19] is whether or not [14:21] nag-author ba [14:22] yung Vice President [14:23] doon sa statement niya [14:25] na nag-contract na siya [14:26] ng tao [14:26] para patayin si BBM, [14:28] si Lisa Marcos, [14:29] at si former Speaker. [14:30] Sir, [14:31] yun po yung focus [14:32] ng investigation namin. [14:33] So despite that track, [14:34] you still maintain [14:35] that this part of [14:35] the investigation, [14:37] you did not have bias? [14:38] We don't have bias. [14:39] Argumentative. [14:40] I'll move on. [14:40] I'll move on. [14:42] Let's go back [14:44] to the investigation [14:45] that you did [14:46] against VP Sara. [14:48] So you mentioned [14:50] yesterday that [14:51] the offended parties [14:52] in this case, [14:53] if at all, [14:54] are BBM, [14:55] FL, [14:56] and the former Speaker, [14:57] correct? [14:58] Yes, sir. [14:59] Did you subpoena [14:59] any of them? [15:01] No, sir. [15:02] Did they appear [15:02] before the NBI? [15:04] No, sir. [15:05] Nakausap niyo ba sila [15:06] ng personal? [15:07] No, sir. [15:08] And yet, [15:09] you concluded [15:10] that they were victims [15:11] of grave threats, [15:13] correct? [15:13] Based on the evidence [15:14] we've gathered, [15:15] yes, sir. [15:15] So without any [15:17] personal correspondences [15:19] with them, [15:20] you came to that conclusion? [15:22] The evidence is clear, sir. [15:24] According to you. [15:27] Oh, objection. [15:28] Your Honor, [15:28] I move that... [15:30] Wait, wait, wait. [15:30] We cannot let this flash. [15:32] I move, [15:33] Your Honor, [15:33] that the Defense Council, [15:36] with all due respect, [15:36] be admonished [15:38] from stating [15:40] those unprofessional remarks. [15:43] We are in front [15:44] of national TV. [15:46] That is his answer. [15:47] If you are not satisfied [15:49] with his answer, [15:50] please don't lay [15:51] any value [15:52] to what the witness answered. [15:55] Your Honor, [15:55] may I move that... [15:56] This is a reminder [15:58] for counsel [15:59] for both parties. [16:01] Kindly avoid [16:02] side remarks. [16:04] Henceforth, [16:04] the presiding officer [16:05] will have it [16:06] stricken off the record. [16:07] And whatever question [16:09] you pose [16:10] and afterwards withdraw [16:11] will likewise [16:13] be stricken off [16:14] from the records. [16:15] So as to avoid [16:15] any attempts [16:17] at showmanship, [16:18] usually seen on TV, [16:20] yes, [16:21] but will not be tolerated [16:23] by this impeachment court. [16:25] Counselors are so reminded... [16:27] We will comply, [16:28] Your Honor. [16:28] Please proceed, [16:29] Counselor. [16:29] To clarify, [16:30] to clarify, [16:31] Mr. Witness, [16:32] yung NBI sub-PINA [16:33] against VP Sarah [16:34] that you issued [16:35] was her being [16:36] a respondent. [16:38] Correct? [16:39] Yes, sir. [16:39] Pero as a complainant, [16:41] you did not issue... [16:42] We issued a letter, sir, [16:44] December 2. [16:44] No, no, no. [16:45] As the complainant [16:47] na siya yung subject [16:48] naman ng threats, [16:49] walang sub-PINA [16:50] as to that effect. [16:52] Walang sub-PINA, sir. [16:53] So in other words, [16:53] hindi talaga siya [16:54] naka-explain [16:55] kasi what you sent out [16:56] was a letter [16:57] and not a sub-PINA. [16:59] Yung letter [17:00] is to inform [17:01] the Vice President [17:02] na iniimbestigahan din namin [17:04] yung threat [17:04] against sa life niya. [17:06] So therefore, [17:06] kailangan namin [17:07] yung presence niya [17:08] or any information [17:09] na pwedeng makatulong [17:10] sa investigation. [17:11] Yun na nga, [17:11] pero hindi mo, [17:11] hindi niya siya sinenda [17:13] ng sub-PINA. [17:13] Isn't it that [17:14] in a regular case, [17:16] the prosecutor [17:16] sends out the sub-PINA [17:17] both to the complainant [17:19] and to the respondent? [17:20] With the prosecutor, sir? [17:21] Yes. [17:22] You're a lawyer, [17:23] you know this. [17:23] When you file a case [17:24] before the prosecutor's office, [17:26] the handling prosecutor [17:27] issues out the sub-PINA [17:29] sa parehong parties naman? [17:30] Ang alam ko, [17:31] during the case concert, [17:32] I think nag-appear yata [17:33] ang Vice President [17:34] sa DOJ. [17:35] Alright. [17:36] Doon ako na-inform. [17:37] Okay, I'll move on [17:37] to a new point. [17:39] Let's talk about [17:39] the reversal by the DOJ. [17:41] Diba? [17:41] There was a initial finding [17:44] on February 5 [17:45] and then it was [17:46] eventually reversed. [17:48] Now, [17:48] would you agree with me [17:49] that the rectifications [17:51] that you made [17:52] for the first affidavit [17:53] of investigation [17:54] were procedural deficiencies? [17:58] Procedural deficiencies? [17:59] Like the TSN? [18:00] No, it's part of [18:01] the case buildup, [18:02] Your Honor. [18:03] But what you added [18:05] were TSNs, [18:06] affidavits of your own agents, [18:09] correct? [18:09] Don't you consider that as... [18:10] Those were affidavits. [18:12] Yes, but don't you consider [18:13] that those as procedural [18:14] and not substantive? [18:16] Part of the evaluation [18:18] and case buildup, [18:19] yes, sir. [18:19] Alright. [18:20] But in effect, [18:22] the substance of the case [18:23] remained the same. [18:25] Walang nabago ho [18:26] sa affidavit, [18:27] sa una at sa pangalawa, [18:28] parehas po yun. [18:29] Very good. [18:29] So, in other words, [18:30] wala kang no additional [18:32] discussion on the merits [18:33] of the case? [18:35] On the merits of the case, [18:37] yung findings namin, [18:38] hindi yung nabago yun, sir. [18:39] Very good. [18:39] So, no additional witnesses [18:42] were interviewed? [18:45] What do you mean, [18:46] interview, sir? [18:46] Wala nang additional [18:47] interviews. [18:48] Kung ano yun sa first [18:49] affidavit nyo, [18:50] yun na rin yun sa second [18:51] affidavit. [18:52] Wala nang additional [18:53] interviewees? [18:56] Kung, I think, [18:57] ang naalala ko, [18:59] anim ho na [18:59] media personalities [19:01] ang na-interview namin [19:02] at yun ho yung nag-reflect [19:03] sa affidavit. [19:09] At the same time, [19:10] we tried to issue [19:10] subina sa, [19:11] I think, [19:12] head ng ABS-CBN. [19:13] I understand that, [19:14] but be more responsive. [19:15] Your Honor, [19:16] Your Honor, [19:16] if I may, [19:17] the witness is still [19:18] in the process [19:19] of answering his question. [19:20] Your Honor, [19:20] but the answer is [19:21] not responsive. [19:23] My question is very simple. [19:24] Let me finish first [19:25] with all the respect, [19:26] Your Honor. [19:26] With the permission [19:28] of the Council for the Parties, [19:30] Attorney Lotok, [19:30] the question was, [19:33] sa pagitan ng una [19:34] at pangalawang [19:35] sinubmit ninyo sa DOJ, [19:37] may mga testigo [19:38] ba kayong dinagdag [19:39] sa pangalawa nyong [19:40] submission sa DOJ? [19:42] O pareho din po [19:43] yung mga testigo, [19:44] nilakip lang [19:45] yung mga affidavit [19:46] na hindi na ilakip [19:47] dun sa unang pagsabit? [19:49] Yeah, [19:49] insofar as I'm concerned, [19:50] Your Honor, [19:51] parehas lang po. [19:52] Okay. [19:53] Alright. [19:53] But we will never know [19:55] that for sure [19:55] because you never released [19:57] your first affidavit [19:58] of investigation, [19:59] correct? [20:01] Well, [20:02] I think...