About this transcript: This is a full AI-generated transcript of Alex Murdaugh's Brother John Marvin Testifies in Family Murders Trial — Full Testimony from Law&Crime Network, published June 12, 2026. The transcript contains 16,882 words with timestamps and was generated using Whisper AI.
"Stand. Just that microphone. John Marvin Murdoch, M-U-R-D-A-U-G-H. Mr. Murdoch, will you tell the jury just briefly some background information? Where are you from? What do you do? Yes, sir. So I was born in Columbia, grew up in Hampton, attended public schools from first grade through high school,"
[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Stand.
[00:00:03] Speaker 2: Just that microphone.
[00:00:11] John Marvin Murdoch: John Marvin Murdoch, M-U-R-D-A-U-G-H.
[00:00:18] Speaker 4: Mr. Murdoch, will you tell the jury just briefly some background information? Where are you from? What do you do?
[00:00:26] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. So I was born in Columbia, grew up in Hampton, attended public schools from first grade through high school, graduated Wade Hampton, went to the University of South Carolina, got a degree in criminal justice, and I'm now self-employed. I've opened some companies in the heavy equipment business.
[00:00:49] Speaker 4: What's the name of your company?
[00:00:50] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, the main company is Murdoch Rental Center, but I've got Murdoch Kubota, Murdoch Equipment, LLC. So generally speaking, I'm in the construction equipment, agricultural tractors and implements. I'm in the equipment business.
[00:01:07] Speaker 4: And do you have offices, I mean locations, multiple locations?
[00:01:13] John Marvin Murdoch: I have two, one in Hampton and one in Ocatee, Bluffton area.
[00:01:19] Speaker 4: Are you related to the defendant, Richard Alexander Murdoch?
[00:01:23] John Marvin Murdoch: I am. I'm his brother.
[00:01:25] Speaker 4: Do you have any other brothers?
[00:01:27] John Marvin Murdoch: I do. Randy Murdoch is my brother.
[00:01:30] Speaker 4: And do you have a sister?
[00:01:31] John Marvin Murdoch: I do. Lynn.
[00:01:32] Speaker 4: All right.
[00:01:33] John Marvin Murdoch: Both are here.
[00:01:37] Speaker 4: And your parents are whom?
[00:01:40] John Marvin Murdoch: Randolph and Libby Murdoch.
[00:01:42] Speaker 4: Are you the only son of the three that didn't go to law school?
[00:01:49] John Marvin Murdoch: I am, and I'm quite proud of it.
[00:01:55] Speaker 4: Tell the jury generally about the Murdoch family, your family in this area.
[00:02:02] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I mean, obviously, we're probably like most families or a lot of families. We're very close. I mean, the siblings, we stay in touch. We do holidays together. We, you know, you try to interact and keep your family core together. I mean, we're just, you know, a normal family doing normal family things.
[00:02:22] Speaker 4: Do your parents, and we've heard about your father, Randolph Murdoch, who died on June the 10th. Is that correct?
[00:02:39] John Marvin Murdoch: That's correct.
[00:02:40] Speaker 4: And then your mother is Miss Libby? She is. And she's still alive, correct?
[00:02:47] John Marvin Murdoch: She is. In fact, yesterday was her birthday.
[00:02:50] Speaker 4: And you went by to see her, I understand.
[00:02:51] John Marvin Murdoch: I did. With my kids.
[00:02:57] Speaker 4: In the spring of 2021, were they both alive? Was your dad alive?
[00:03:04] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[00:03:05] Speaker 4: And what was his health in the spring of 2021?
[00:03:09] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, for some, he had been battling cancer, and not just cancer. I'll use that term loosely. He had multiple forms of cancer. But he had been battling cancer, had health issues. He had been through heart surgeries. Just overall, his health was not good. You know, just in and out of hospitals, just age and diseases were catching up to him.
[00:03:38] Speaker 4: And would you check in on your mom and dad? Any chance you've got?
[00:03:43] John Marvin Murdoch: I would. I would. So I didn't tell you all this, but so I don't live in Hampton. I live, my wife and family and I, we live down in Beaufort or just outside of Beaufort. And so my drive is about an hour's drive to do it. So I didn't visit as often as Randy and Alec because they were in Hampton. But absolutely, any time I had the opportunity to work in Hampton at my office, I would always take time to stop by. And then sometimes I would just, you know, just wanted to go see my mom.
[00:04:14] Speaker 4: And was it routine for, one, so your brothers who lived in Hampton to stop by and check on them routinely?
[00:04:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, absolutely. In fact, you know, I don't know every time they went because I wasn't there. But I feel confident that they visited more just because of the proximity. It's just an easier visit.
[00:04:38] Speaker 4: So let's talk about proximity. Your brother Randy, where does he live?
[00:04:43] John Marvin Murdoch: He lives in Hampton, in town.
[00:04:45] Speaker 4: And then your sister Lynn, where does she live?
[00:04:47] John Marvin Murdoch: She lives in Somerville.
[00:04:49] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:04:50] Speaker 4: And then Alec, where did he live in the spring of 2021?
[00:04:53] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I think in the spring of 2021, he was living in Moselle. I think all of them were.
[00:04:58] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:04:59] Speaker 4: And is Moselle close to Almena?
[00:05:02] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it's further than Randy's house, but much closer than mine.
[00:05:05] Speaker 4: Right. And your mother's house, I'm saying Almena, but is Almena a town?
[00:05:13] John Marvin Murdoch: No, no, Almena's correct. That's the location. That's the property name, if you will, the intersection name. I think that's a general.
[00:05:22] Speaker 4: And just tell the jury where that's located.
[00:05:25] John Marvin Murdoch: It would be just east of Varnville, maybe two or three miles outside of the town limits.
[00:05:33] Speaker 4: Is it basically at the intersection of, I don't know, what's that mean?
[00:05:39] John Marvin Murdoch: Intersection of 278 and Highway 68 that would go to, one goes to Ridgeland and one goes to Yemisee.
[00:05:44] Speaker 4: Okay. And would Alec visit your mom and dad frequently in the spring of 2021, to your knowledge? Oh, absolutely. And we'll get to more of that. How well, I want to talk about Paul. How well did you know Paul?
[00:06:04] John Marvin Murdoch: I knew Paul very well. Excuse me, I'm going to have a hard time talking about Paul because we had a very special relationship. But I knew him very well. And I'll do my best to answer any questions about him.
[00:06:20] Speaker 4: Well, did he have a nickname?
[00:06:24] John Marvin Murdoch: He did. They called him Little Rooster.
[00:06:27] Speaker 4: And did they call him anything else?
[00:06:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I mean, he'd been called Little Rooster. He'd been called, as you heard, Paw Paw. I mean, that's what my family, my kids called him.
[00:06:39] Speaker 4: What did you call him?
[00:06:41] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it depends on where we were and what we were doing. And when we were, excuse me, when we were doing something fun in a social event, I would refer to him as Paw Paw. Now, y'all haven't heard this yet, but he worked for me. So when he worked for me, it was Paul, or it was Paul Terry, because I was trying to be, you know, a little more authoritative.
[00:07:06] Speaker 4: Right. Who else called him Paw Paw?
[00:07:11] John Marvin Murdoch: Most of all the family. And that's not, you know, that's not a name that was said. At all times. But when we're having fun, kids would say it. My wife would say it. It was just a name that was used in fun times and in normal times.
[00:07:31] Speaker 4: And you mentioned Paul worked for you. When did he work for you?
[00:07:34] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, that's, I thought you were going to ask that, and unfortunately I don't know. He's worked for me maybe prior to June of 21. He was working. He was working, or he was working then. I think he worked the two summers prior to that. And it was just summer work. I mean, you know, it would only last a month or so, a month and a half.
[00:07:55] Speaker 4: And was he working for you in June of 2021? He was. And what was he doing for you?
[00:08:02] John Marvin Murdoch: Anything I asked him to do.
[00:08:04] Speaker 4: Where was he working?
[00:08:05] John Marvin Murdoch: He was working at my Bluffton Oakity store. He would do anything from power wash equipment or deliver new tractors that were being sold, talk to customers, help customers load and unload rental equipment. He did, as you heard someone testify, that boy would work. And so whatever was asked of him, he would do.
[00:08:32] Speaker 4: Was he on the phone the whole time, or did he actually work?
[00:08:35] John Marvin Murdoch: Not at work he was not. Well, not while I was there.
[00:08:38] Speaker 4: Right. Was he a good worker?
[00:08:40] John Marvin Murdoch: He was an excellent worker.
[00:08:41] Speaker 4: Did you spend time with Paul? Well, let me back up. Do you have a place where you hunt? Do you have a property?
[00:09:00] John Marvin Murdoch: I do.
[00:09:01] Speaker 4: Do you have a name for that property? We call it Greenfield. And would Paul and Buster come out to Greenfield to hunt?
[00:09:08] John Marvin Murdoch: They would. Absolutely.
[00:09:11] Speaker 4: Let me just back up. What was the relationship between Alec, Paul, and Buster?
[00:09:21] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, it was a great relationship. You know, anything that the boys were doing, Alec wanted to do. And the boys always came first to him. Some of y'all may have been on dove hunts before, but I have a very small field. You know, I've got ten stands in the field, and I have, before the hunt, I have it organized where I know who's sitting where. Well, I have Alec. He says, well, can the boys come? Well, of course they can come. So, now I've got to rearrange for that. Or, if they said they were coming and the boys backed out, Alec always backed out. I was thinking about this. To this day, I don't believe he has ever come hunting with me since his boys have been old enough to hunt without his boys. It's always with the boys.
[00:10:10] Speaker 4: Did he do other things with them?
[00:10:13] John Marvin Murdoch: He did sporting events, you know, football games, baseball games.
[00:10:18] Speaker 4: Was he close with his sons?
[00:10:21] John Marvin Murdoch: Very close.
[00:10:22] Speaker 4: And how about Maggie? What did you observe of his relationship with Maggie?
[00:10:29] John Marvin Murdoch: It was a great relationship. I mean, all marriages, I'm sure, have hiccups here and there. But I'm telling you, it was a good marriage. In coming here, I was trying to think of ways to describe it. My wife and I and Alec and Maggie, we went to a concert together. It was the Darius Rucker concert. And, of course, we're sitting in there. Alec and Maggie are sitting just below us. And I had just gone and, I hope I can say this in court, I had just gone and bought one of those $15 beers. And I was back in my seat and songs playing. And my wife taps me and Alec and Maggie are holding hands and swaying together. And she was like, why aren't you holding my hand? And so my $15 beer got put down. They had a great relationship. I mean, that's just one of many football games. They would put out a tailgate spread. They would welcome the kids, family, friends. It was just a wonderful.
[00:11:33] Speaker 4: And did they do a lot of family things together with Paul and Buster and Paul and Buster's friends?
[00:11:42] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, they did. You know, I knew of trips that they would take, family trips, you know, vacations. They had a house at Edisto that y'all heard about. And they would have, you know, they would always have friends come over, particularly the boys' friends.
[00:11:59] Speaker 4: There's been some discussion during this trial about Paul leaving guns and stuff around. Did you ever experience that? I did. And tell the jury a little bit about your experience.
[00:12:15] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, you know, I've heard the testimony about it, and it's accurate. I mean, I could tell y'all a hundred stories of him leaving things, but he was notorious. He would come stay with us at our house. He would leave. Liz would have all of his clothes washed. And, you know, he just, like he just left and didn't care about where his clothes were. In fact, Paul came duck hunting with me one time at Greenfield. And I smile fondly on this when I, you know, think back on all this. So we had a great duck hunt. I think there were three of us in the blind. Great duck hunt. We picked up, picked up all the birds, decoys, and we left, and we go back up and have a nice breakfast. You know, doing all the post hunt, all the fun things that you do. Well, I went back hunting. I don't know, it was probably a week and a half, maybe two weeks later, and his hunting gear is still in the blind. I mean, I just, I had to smile when I saw it. I was like, that's Paul.
[00:13:17] Speaker 4: Right. Did, I want to ask you a little bit about riding property. I mean, you ride your property down at Greenfield.
[00:13:27] John Marvin Murdoch: I do. And if you were riding in what, like checking on the property. Well, you mean like just riding around joyriding or checking feeders or. Right. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
[00:13:42] Speaker 4: And do you always carry a gun when you're doing that?
[00:13:45] John Marvin Murdoch: I don't.
[00:13:46] Speaker 4: And have you ridden property like at your dad's place with your dad and maybe Alec or others? I mean, is that a frequent occurrence?
[00:13:55] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I would say almost never when I rode the property with my dad.
[00:14:00] Speaker 4: Almost never carried a gun.
[00:14:01] John Marvin Murdoch: Almost never would we carry a gun. We would just, Joy, right now, you know, if it were late in the afternoon and we were considering maybe getting in a deer stand, you know, at the last minute, possibly. But typically, with my dad and us, we didn't carry a gun then.
[00:14:15] Speaker 4: Right. Speaking of your dad, what was, you recall what was going on with his health the weekend, the Saturday, Sunday, before June the 7th, so I guess we'd start. Friday would be the 4th, Saturday would be the 5th, Sunday would be the 6th.
[00:14:41] John Marvin Murdoch: Right. So he was actually in the hospital, I believe, in Columbia that weekend. And I think he got out of the hospital on Sunday.
[00:14:54] Speaker 4: Okay. And did you pick him up? Your brother picked him up? You know who picked him up? I did not.
[00:15:00] John Marvin Murdoch: I did not. I may have been out of town. I can't recall. I've heard the testimony about it. I did not pick him up.
[00:15:10] Speaker 4: Did you end up taking your father to the doctor on that Monday, June the 7th?
[00:15:17] John Marvin Murdoch: I did.
[00:15:18] Speaker 4: And where did you take him?
[00:15:20] John Marvin Murdoch: I took him to Savannah. To his, what I would call his normal doctor. I think Columbia was, maybe he had to go up there for some different things or nothing. I'm not sure.
[00:15:34] Speaker 4: And was he having some breathing issues on that Monday?
[00:15:37] John Marvin Murdoch: He was having major breathing issues.
[00:15:39] Speaker 4: And when you went to the doctor on Monday, June the 7th, was there a decision made to admit him to the hospital?
[00:15:47] John Marvin Murdoch: It was. So when I took him, we were only going to a doctor's appointment. We were not going to the hospital. It was just me taking him to a doctor's appointment to try to find out what the breathing issues were, maybe some type of a treatment or medication or something to help him. While we were there, not as soon as the doctor saw him, but when the doctor saw him and went through some things, he immediately told both of us that he had to be in the hospital, that he was not getting the oxygen that he needed.
[00:16:23] Speaker 4: And was he admitted on that Monday? He was. And what was, as you understood, the prognosis when he was put back in the hospital on Monday the 8th? I mean, the 7th.
[00:16:36] John Marvin Murdoch: On Monday the 7th, yes. So my understanding was the doctor that we were seeing or that he was seeing had some really strong beliefs that the cancer that he had was not causing the breathing obstructions, that it very likely could be pneumonia. And he told us, he said, if it's the cancer, that's the worst. But if it's pneumonia like I think it is, I think we've got some treatment options.
[00:17:05] Speaker 4: So was there hope on June the 7th? Absolutely.
[00:17:08] John Marvin Murdoch: When he told me that, I mean, well, first of all, when he said he had to go into the hospital, it scared me. You know, obviously it scares you when a doctor tells you you immediately have to check in. But, yes, him explaining that he was optimistic that it was going to be pneumonia and that there would be a breathing treatment to help it, I felt pretty good.
[00:17:29] Speaker 4: Now, in evidence, and I'm not going to read it again, but did you and your brother send out e-mails, I mean, excuse me, text messages to family members, giving them an update? We did. And that was on the 7th?
[00:17:42] John Marvin Murdoch: That was on the 7th.
[00:17:43] Speaker 4: And in the update, did you explain the doctor believed it was pneumonia? Yes.
[00:17:48] John Marvin Murdoch: I gave a basic summary of what I was told by the doctor, what I believed it to be. I think Randy and I had a few minutes to talk, and he typed up another e-mail just to make sure that everybody was in the loop.
[00:18:04] Speaker 5: Okay.
[00:18:06] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, I'm sorry, not an e-mail, a text message. Text message. I'm sorry.
[00:18:11] Speaker 4: And did the diagnosis and the prognosis subsequently change on your dad?
[00:18:17] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it did. It did.
[00:18:18] Speaker 4: When was that?
[00:18:20] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, so on Tuesday afternoon, we're back out at Almeida, I mean, I'm sorry, we're back at Moselle. And, you know, we still hadn't heard much. I mean, all this other stuff going on, it just, as you can imagine, it's just, it's just so much going on now. Randy. Randy called me and told me they had done everything that they could do and that he would be coming home with an ambulance under hospice care.
[00:18:55] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:19:00] Speaker 4: And did he die on June the 10th? He died, I think, two days later. There's. Take your time. That's all right. Going back to taking your dad to the doctor and then checking in the hospital, there's some vehicles being switched around a little bit. And we'll get to, you know, that. Can you explain to the jury how all that transportation went to get your dad to the hospital with a doctor?
[00:19:49] John Marvin Murdoch: You're talking about on that Monday for me to get him?
[00:19:51] Speaker 4: Yeah, on June the 7th.
[00:19:53] John Marvin Murdoch: It's a little bit complicated, but I'll do my best to explain it. So, Randy, on Monday morning, dad had been in the hospital Sunday, got out Sunday, knew that he needed to be seen by his regular doctor, but did not have an appointment. And so, Randy was doing everything he could to get him in as early as he could on that Monday and just asked me, he says, if I get the appointment, can you take him? And I said, absolutely, I'd be delighted to. A little while later, an hour or two, I don't know, it was still that morning, Randy calls me and says, okay, they have an opening for him, but he has to get there right away. So, Hampton is, what, an hour and a half from Savannah, hour and a half. He said, you don't have time to drive to Hampton to get him. I will meet you in Ridgeland about halfway, which is not far from my house, and then you just take him, and I'll go back. He had some time sensitive things to work on. So, we met at Palmetto Co-op in Ridgeland. I got in my mom's car with my dad. Randy got in my truck and drove it back to Almeda where Randy had come to pick up my dad. So, Randy's truck's back at mom and dad's house. So, I drive dad to Savannah in my mom's car, go through what we just talked about, the doctor's appointment, getting checked in. And back then, COVID was still going on, and there were several restrictions. They wouldn't let me go back with my dad at that time. So, I was going to be driving home, and now I'm stuck in my mom's car. So, I knew Paul was working, and it was, I guess it was around 5 or so, and that's when we closed. I called Paul and said, Paul, listen, I need you to, if you would, drive my mom's car back to Almeda, pick up my truck, and bring it to work the next morning. And then just leave your, he was driving like a farm truck that day. I said, leave it, and I'll drive it, and we'll just swap back the next morning. And so, that's how our cars got swapped.
[00:21:59] Speaker 4: All right. So, when you got back on the evening of the 7th, did you see Paul?
[00:22:04] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, I did.
[00:22:06] Speaker 4: And where did you see him?
[00:22:07] John Marvin Murdoch: At my house.
[00:22:10] Speaker 4: And he got into your mom's sedan and drove it to Almeda.
[00:22:17] John Marvin Murdoch: And drove it to Almeda, and then got in my truck and drove it to Moselle.
[00:22:21] Speaker 4: Okay. And you said the farm truck was at your house. Do you remember where Paul's truck was?
[00:22:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Paul's normal truck was in the shop being worked on.
[00:22:33] Speaker 4: Was that Jimmy Butler's?
[00:22:34] John Marvin Murdoch: It was a shop in Barnville, Jimmy Butler's, yes, sir.
[00:22:38] Speaker 4: Now, when you last saw Paul, was he just as normal as you see him every day?
[00:22:46] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, absolutely. He was playing with my kids in the yard, waiting on me to get there. In fact, that particular day, he was pretty dirty. So, whatever he had been doing back at work had him pretty dirty. But he was playing with the kids in the yard, being Paul.
[00:23:04] Speaker 4: Was that the last time you saw him?
[00:23:06] John Marvin Murdoch: That is the last time I saw him.
[00:23:08] Speaker 4: When did you learn that, and how did you learn that Maggie and Paul were murdered on the 9th of June the 7th?
[00:23:16] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, Alec called me, and Liz and I, we have three young kids, younger kids. I mean, our youngest is eight now, so it would have been six at a time. And so we don't have a lot of free time to ourselves. But that night, we were watching television.
[00:23:39] Speaker 4: Well, let me back up. Had Alec called you earlier in the night when he was on his way to his mom? Oh, yes, sir. And we got phone records of that. What do you recall of that conversation?
[00:23:50] John Marvin Murdoch: He called, you know, just checking on me, just said, you know, I saw the news about Dad, things look good, you know. It was a brief conversation, and I hate to say it, but I kind of said, listen, man, listen, I finally have a few minutes. Can we talk tomorrow? You know, we're watching a movie.
[00:24:09] Speaker 4: And what was his demeanor when you spoke with him on the evening of the 7th?
[00:24:13] John Marvin Murdoch: Same as always, just normal.
[00:24:16] Speaker 4: And then later on that night, you got another phone call from him?
[00:24:20] John Marvin Murdoch: And I got the, when you asked the question, how did I learn? That's, yes, Alec called me, and just absolutely hysterical. As soon as I heard his voice, I knew something bad was going on. Didn't know what. And, you know, I'm in my pajamas. He said, you know, something bad has really happened. He didn't, I don't know his exact words, but I think he said, Maggie and Paul have been hurt really badly. Please get here as fast as you can. And, you know, I drop what I'm doing, and I go get dressed, and I'm hurrying. You know, just so many things are going through your mind. You don't know what to do. So I get dressed, and I run outside and realize I don't have a car. I have Paul's cars out there, and it is a hunk of junk. And, I mean, you know.
[00:25:10] Speaker 4: This was the farm truck.
[00:25:12] John Marvin Murdoch: This was the farm truck. And so I knew I couldn't take my wife's car because she was taking the kids to school. And at this point, you know, I knew something bad. I just didn't know how bad it was.
[00:25:22] Speaker 4: And so did you then get in the farm truck and head to Moselle?
[00:25:25] John Marvin Murdoch: I did. I did.
[00:25:27] Speaker 4: And what happened along the way?
[00:25:28] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, so along the way, I'd spoken to Randy. He asked me to try to get in touch with a close family friend and one of their law partners, Danny Henderson. I was just constantly trying to call him. I'm driving. I'm driving fast. I'm just trying to get to Moselle. And, you know, once I got Danny and told him that he needed to get up there, you know, I had just a few minutes to myself. And I just, I was crying. And somebody called me shortly after that. And I don't know whether, I don't know who it was. I can't remember. But I remember, it was either Ellick or Randy, I believe, and they said they were, the sheets were being pulled over.
[00:26:19] Speaker 4: Did the farm truck break down? It did. How did you end up getting to Moselle?
[00:26:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, so let me back up and tell you. So the route that from my house down in Ocadie-Buford takes me to Cusahatchie, and I get on 95 to go to Yemesee and getting off and coming up that way. Well, another close family friend, his name is Greg Alexander. He is the chief of police in Yemesee. I reach out to him, and I just say, Greg, you know, I gave him a, said, you know, said something bad had happened. Again, I don't know when I was told about the sheets, but I told him, I said, listen, something bad's happened. We got to get up there. When I get to Yemesee, can you please help make sure I get to Moselle? Because this truck's sputtering, and I knew it wasn't good. And he met me at Yemesee, and, you know, he fell in behind me, and we started driving until he finally passed me in Varnville.
[00:27:16] Speaker 4: And did he end up driving you the rest of the way? Well, he did.
[00:27:22] John Marvin Murdoch: So he passed me shortly before Varnville. He took a ride on 63, and he was a little ways ahead of me when the truck quit on me. I called him and said, Greg, I said, you know, come back and get me. The truck has broken down. And, of course, he picked me up and took me straight on to Moselle.
[00:27:44] Speaker 4: Were there any guns in the farm truck that Paul had left when you got in it?
[00:27:50] John Marvin Murdoch: I have no idea. It was dark when I got in it. As you all can imagine, I was frantic. I jumped in it, and I took off.
[00:27:59] Speaker 4: Did you ever see any guns in it?
[00:28:02] John Marvin Murdoch: That night, never. I mean, I didn't look. I mean, it just, I wasn't looking in the backseat. I wasn't worried about anything except getting to Moselle.
[00:28:09] Speaker 1: Okay.
[00:28:16] Speaker 4: Do you remember about the time you got to Moselle? What time was it, roughly? Or, better yet, who was there when you got there?
[00:28:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, there were, I mean, well before I got to Moselle or we got to Moselle, you could see the lights flashing. It was just, there were tons of people. Mostly what I would describe as first responders of some sort.
[00:28:40] Speaker 4: And when you pulled up, where did you go?
[00:28:44] John Marvin Murdoch: So, we came in the main gate and came around, and they had created, I guess, a small crime scene. And when we pulled up, I saw Ellick. And I think before Greg even stopped in the car, I jumped out and ran to him.
[00:29:02] Speaker 4: And what was his condition? Alex?
[00:29:05] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, he was just broken. I mean, distraught. I mean, everybody was. There were a few other people there. But he just, all we did is hugged and cried. I mean, we didn't, I don't even know that we talked.
[00:29:18] Speaker 4: How long, how long did you stay down adjacent to the crime scene, do you recall?
[00:29:24] John Marvin Murdoch: Quite some time. You know, I have to assume that I probably was there at 11 o'clock-ish. I don't know what time I got there. But I don't think we went back up to the house, you know, until well, well after midnight, maybe two, three.
[00:29:44] Speaker 4: And when you went to the house, do you recall if any sled agents came up there?
[00:29:51] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I did not see any. I heard some testimony, some came and got some clothes. But I did not see any sled agents at the house. The last officer that I remember seeing that night, or officers, were the ones that told us that we needed to leave that area, that they were going to be doing stuff with the bodies, and that we needed to go to the house.
[00:30:11] Speaker 4: Right. When you went into the house, were there other people in there when you got in? There were.
[00:30:18] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, most people that I knew, some of Ellic's partners, Randy's partners, family members, Lynn.
[00:30:28] Speaker 4: Was there food out, or had food? What was it? Had anything?
[00:30:33] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I didn't see any food, but I saw pots and pans, and I saw folks that were cleaning up. They were removing pots and pans, but, you know, I never opened it and looked in it, so I presumed that it was food. They cleaned dishes, they put the pots and pans away, or in the refrigerator.
[00:30:50] Speaker 4: Was the TV on in the house? Do you remember?
[00:30:55] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, based on what I know, I would say it is, but I can't tell you 100% that it was on, but I'd be willing to bet it was.
[00:31:04] Speaker 4: What do you mean when you say based on what you know?
[00:31:07] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I don't think I'd ever been in that house without the TV being on, and felt like Maggie were there.
[00:31:15] Speaker 4: After, well, did you ultimately go to Almeida that evening with Ellic, Buster, and his girlfriend, Brooklyn?
[00:31:33] John Marvin Murdoch: We did.
[00:31:34] Speaker 4: Do you remember what Ellic was wearing when he went to Almeida?
[00:31:40] John Marvin Murdoch: Not precisely, I mean, he was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, I can't tell you details, but it was shorts and a t-shirt, you know, like relaxed shorts.
[00:31:49] Speaker 4: Do you know whether he had had a shower or not?
[00:31:51] John Marvin Murdoch: It appeared he had. I mean, his hair was not, yeah, I didn't see him in the shower, but I can tell you I think he had a shower.
[00:32:00] Speaker 4: I understand. So then let's move forward to the morning of the June of the 8th. I guess, did you get any sleep the night of June of the 7th?
[00:32:13] John Marvin Murdoch: Very little. I don't know that I fell asleep. I've certainly laid in the bed. It's just, as you can imagine, just the thoughts and things. I don't know if I slept. When I got up and started moving the next day, I certainly didn't feel like I'd slept.
[00:32:34] Speaker 4: What did you do the next day when you got up?
[00:32:38] John Marvin Murdoch: You're talking about precisely or generally?
[00:32:40] Speaker 4: Just generally.
[00:32:41] John Marvin Murdoch: I got up and Ellick was up. I don't think Buster and Buster were. I told Ellick that I was going over to Greenfield. My farm that I told you all about is two or three miles away, so it's very close. And I have all, you know, plenty of clothes over there. So I told him I was going over there to shower and put on fresh clothes and that I would meet him at Moselle.
[00:33:04] Speaker 4: And did you go to Moselle?
[00:33:06] John Marvin Murdoch: I did after I left Greenfield. Yes, sir.
[00:33:09] Speaker 4: And do you remember who was there when you got to Moselle?
[00:33:11] John Marvin Murdoch: I was the first one there. And what did you do? I just went to stay there until I knew Buster, Brooklyn, and Ellick were coming. I suspected that other family members and partners, I knew others were coming, so I just kind of sat there just, you know, just in disbelief still. It's just, you know, moments of just.
[00:33:35] Speaker 4: Was the door to the house unlocked? Do you remember?
[00:33:38] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, that's a good question. And I thought about that. I don't remember. It either was unlocked or I had the code because there's a keypad on a side door. But I can't tell you which door I went in. I don't know.
[00:33:58] Speaker 4: Did you eventually go down to the kennels?
[00:34:05] John Marvin Murdoch: I did. I did. You know, once everyone got there, there was just, there was, you know, a fair amount of activity in the house with family and law partners. Ellick's law partners, Randy's law partners. You know, I just felt like I needed to go down. I needed to see for myself what had gone on and just, you know, just kind of take it in. I mean, maybe for some type of understanding.
[00:34:36] Speaker 4: How long did you stay down there at the kennels?
[00:34:40] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I can't, I don't know. But I will say this, before I went, I was unsure whether I was allowed to go because I knew it was a crime scene. And so I reached out to a friend of mine in law enforcement and said, listen, I don't know who's handling the crime scene. I don't know whatever. He said, well, I'll find out and make sure that it's clear for you to go. And he said, don't go until, you know, until I tell you. And he called me back, you know, a few minutes later and said he had spoken to, I believe it was Captain Ryan Neal and had given the okay that everything was released and it was okay to go there.
[00:35:26] Speaker 4: And was it cleaned up?
[00:35:29] John Marvin Murdoch: No, Jim, it was not cleaned up.
[00:35:34] Speaker 4: Were there skull fragments?
[00:35:37] John Marvin Murdoch: Yeah. You know, so, so, excuse me, oh, this is going to be really difficult. So I could easily see where Maggie had been. You know, I saw the night before where the sheets were, but somebody had told me that who was who. And so I could see where Maggie had been and it was grass and, you know, they had covered it up with dirt. So there really was nothing to see where Maggie was. And I walked over to the feed room. And y'all have heard the descriptions. Y'all saw it. I've never seen pictures. And I've told them before coming to this court that I was not going to see pictures. But y'all can imagine what I experienced. It had not been cleaned up. I saw blood. I saw brains. I saw pieces of skull. And when I say brains, it could just be tissue. I don't know what I was seeing. It was just, it was terrible. And for some reason, I thought it was my, something that I needed to do for Paul to clean it up. I felt like it was the right thing to do. I felt like I owed him. And I started cleaning. And I promise you, no mother or father or aunt or uncle should ever have to see and do what I did that day. I don't know, I'm not blaming anybody, but it's just, I was just overwhelmed. I did everything I could. And I would have moments where I would, I would, I would stop crying for a moment. And just, you know, just in disbelief. At one point, I called my brother Randy and told him what I was doing, trying to describe what I was doing. And then he immediately told me to stop doing it. It was not good for me. It was not healthy for me to be there. And I couldn't stop. I just, I had to do it for Paul. It's just what I had to do. And I don't know, it's probably 15, 20 minutes later, Mark Ball shows up. Y'all heard Mark Ball testify. And he came and hugged me and told me it was okay to leave, okay to leave what was left to fall, that they would clean it up. It's the hardest thing I've ever been through in my life.
[00:38:18] Speaker 4: Yes, sir. What did you do next?
[00:38:25] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, Mark basically got me, I'm sure I was just a basket case. But he got me back to the house and, you know, got me back around family and, you know, just got back to, you know, the support of others that were there. And, you know, there were a lot of people at the house at that point.
[00:38:50] Speaker 4: Do you remember when you got back to the house at some point in time, people raising questions or bringing up the fact that Maggie's phone had not been located?
[00:39:05] John Marvin Murdoch: Yeah, so that was, you know, particularly the lawyers, they were all, you know, being lawyers, they were, you know, questioning things amongst themselves and, you know, how could this happen, trying to figure things out. But it was brought to my attention that Maggie's phone was not there and that law enforcement had not found it. And I can't say that, in fact, I can probably say that I didn't think of it because I'm not a big phone user or a big app user or whatnot. But somebody brought to my attention and says, listen, if Buster or Ellick, if they have an app on their phone, like Find My Phone or Find My Friends or an app like that, they said you very likely can find out where the phone is if the battery's not dead. And so I went to Buster and sure enough, I said, Buster, do you have this one of these apps like they're talking about? And he said, yeah, sure I do. I said, well, open it up. He opened it up and he handed me the phone and I see Maggie's name and I press it to activate it and it pings Maggie's phone just out front of the property. And I was like, I hate to say it, but I said, holy shit, there it is. And I said, Buster, I'm taking your phone. I'm going to go back down to the shed and show it to law enforcement.
[00:40:31] Speaker 4: And who did you approach first about the phone?
[00:40:35] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I don't know who it was. Presumably it was sled agents because keep in mind, I didn't know any of these guys with sled. I mean, there were a couple of faces that I'd seen before, but I don't know these guys. I've come to know them, but I don't know them or didn't know them then. So I went up to a sled agent or two sled agents and said, presumably sled agents, and said, hey, I've got Buster's phone here and it's got an app on it that you can find the phone and it's showing Maggie's phone right out here. Y'all want to let us go get it? And he said, no need, we have technology coming later today that we should be able to find it. And it just blew me away that I'm sitting here showing them where Maggie's phone is, but they won't take the time to walk with me or take this phone itself. I mean, I'd give them the phone to go find it. So I walk over, I knew Duffy Stone, he was a solicitor, I knew one of his investigators. I walked over to them, said the exact same thing, and they immediately said, absolutely, let's go find this thing before the battery goes dead.
[00:41:44] Speaker 4: And what happened?
[00:41:46] John Marvin Murdoch: We did that. Well, we started, actually, we started walking down the back entrance or the kennel entrance, if you will. And as we were, at that time, the agent was holding the phone, you know, I'm looking at it with him. And when it pings, it creates a dot or location, and that dot jumped from right at the end of that road, down the road, I don't know, maybe a half a mile, three quarters of a mile. And so we walked back, got into a car, and drove down to where it was showing the phone.
[00:42:20] Speaker 4: And was the phone?
[00:42:22] John Marvin Murdoch: And I rode with those agents, the solicitor's office agents.
[00:42:25] Speaker 4: Was the phone ultimately located on the side of the road?
[00:42:29] John Marvin Murdoch: Absolutely. We found it in a matter of minutes.
[00:42:31] Speaker ?: Okay.
[00:42:32] Speaker 4: Do you remember how it was collected? I mean, were you present when it was collected?
[00:42:36] John Marvin Murdoch: I was. So I was on, there was a cow pasture on one side, and it's wooded on the other side. And I was on the side that the cow pasture's on, if you will. And I heard him say, I got it. And so, you know, of course, I walked back beside his car, and I, you know, I'm good ways from it, but I see him over there. And I think he took either some ribbon or some flagging, or flagging tape, and marked the phone. And I don't think he touched it. I think he left it right where it was, called SLED. And maybe at that time, maybe they had been communicating, but SLED had blocked off the road at this point. And one of the agents came up and picked the phone up. And I don't know which agent. Again, I didn't know him.
[00:43:21] Speaker 4: Did any law enforcement officer ask you if you knew the password?
[00:43:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes. So once they, and I'll say this. So they did take pictures of it while it was on the ground, before they touched it. They picked it up. I think they had gloves on. They picked it up, brought it back to the trunk of the car, and opened it up in PowerZone. And they then asked me, you know, what's the password? And, of course, I didn't know it.
[00:43:50] Speaker 4: Did you find out the password? I did.
[00:43:52] John Marvin Murdoch: I called Alec, and he gave me the password. I repeated it to the agent. They put the password in and said, it's open.
[00:44:01] Speaker 4: So Alec provided you the password that you passed to the agents, and it opened the phone? Yes, sir.
[00:44:07] John Marvin Murdoch: That's correct.
[00:44:12] Speaker 4: John Marvin, were you aware of a news release that was issued that morning, Tuesday, June 8, that the public had no need to be alarmed or concerned for their safety?
[00:44:36] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[00:44:37] Speaker 4: Well, what was your reaction to that?
[00:44:41] John Marvin Murdoch: I mean, it's quite baffling. It still is. Two people have been killed, and they're telling me that everybody's safe. That tells me that whoever's done this is in jail, and they are 100% positive. Because if they're not in jail, nobody's safe.
[00:45:02] Speaker 4: Did you go back to the residence at Moselle after finding the phone? Did you go back up to the house?
[00:45:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir, I did.
[00:45:27] Speaker 4: And did SLED agents come through and search it while you were present?
[00:45:31] John Marvin Murdoch: They did. I don't know how long I'd been back up there, but they came, and we kind of talked in the playroom, or I think some have described it as the gun room. Yeah, they talked about that they needed to come in the house and search for things.
[00:45:51] Speaker 4: And did you escort, I think it was Agent McAllister, throughout the house?
[00:45:56] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, it was Katie McAllister.
[00:45:59] Speaker 4: And did she tell you what she was looking for?
[00:46:02] John Marvin Murdoch: Initially, she says, well, the way she presented it was, you know, there were so many people in the house. She said, listen, I don't want to just go barging in and make everybody run out of the house, but I'm going to take my badge off, my gun off. And if you would, just walk me through each room, and, you know, particularly I'm looking for 12-gauge shotgun guns and .300 blackout and the ammunition for those calibers.
[00:46:28] Speaker 4: And if you're walking through the house with her, it appears she was looking for other things besides just guns.
[00:46:36] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, you could tell she's looking, because she looked in spaces that guns wouldn't fit, so it makes sense that she could be looking for something else. Such as what? Well, I don't know.
[00:46:47] Speaker 4: Well, I understand, but you said spaces. Did she look in the bathrooms?
[00:46:49] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I mean, like I opened up a, up in the upstairs area, there's some, there's some cabinets that, you know, a couple of them are pretty small that, you know, she could find ammunition in there, but I don't know how you would get a gun in there.
[00:47:04] Speaker 4: Did she search bathrooms?
[00:47:06] John Marvin Murdoch: She did. Well, I took her through every room in the house.
[00:47:10] Speaker ?: Right.
[00:47:10] John Marvin Murdoch: I mean, every single room.
[00:47:12] Speaker 4: Did you observe her looking in sinks and toilets?
[00:47:17] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, so, yes, sir. What I observed is, like, the shower, for example, you know, it's a door, it's not an open shower. She opened the door, and she looked around, and, you know, she was looking at it. She easily would have known there was no gun in it when she opened it, but it was obvious that she was looking a little deeper.
[00:47:35] Speaker 4: Right. What kind of guns were there at Moselle?
[00:47:44] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it sounds like the guns of all kinds, you know, rifles, shotguns, I've seen bow and arrows, I've seen crossbows, most anything that you would hunt with.
[00:47:56] Speaker ?: All right.
[00:47:57] Speaker 4: And were guns mostly in the gun room, to your knowledge, when you were over there?
[00:48:05] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, when I went through the house, we identified, I remember one gun in particular that was in the bedroom, a shotgun. I picked it up and said, you need to take this one, and we looked at it, and it was a 20-gauge. She said, no, put that one back. So I put it back. So, predominantly all the guns were in the gun room or playroom.
[00:48:25] Speaker 4: Right. I'll sort of an aside briefly. Do you hunt with Alec over the years? I have. And did he have a go-to gun, to your knowledge, that he would use?
[00:48:41] John Marvin Murdoch: Not to my knowledge.
[00:48:45] Speaker 4: When's the last time you ever seen him hunt with a 12-gauge?
[00:48:50] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, I'd say that when he bird-hunted, he's either shooting a 20-gauge or a 28. You know, there was a time, and please don't ask me when, but I would say it was a few years prior to this that we were turkey hunting on another piece of property down on Savannah River. And I know he was hunting with a 12-gauge then, but I don't know whether it was his gun or somebody else's.
[00:49:15] Speaker 4: Did that gun have a sticker on it, do you remember? It did. Do you remember what the sticker said?
[00:49:22] John Marvin Murdoch: No, I don't remember what the sticker said, but I do remember teasing Alec that when you're turkey hunting, you don't want to be seen, and, you know, a big sticker on the side of your barrel is kind of like waving a white flag to a turkey.
[00:49:37] Speaker 4: Did you serve as somewhat of a liaison or a point person with SLED and the family initially?
[00:49:51] John Marvin Murdoch: I don't know that I'd call it a liaison or a point person, but I absolutely had become to know David Owens, and I absolutely told David, I said, listen, if you need anything from me or anybody and you can't get in touch with them, you reach out to me. I will either see to it that they call you back, I will see to it that you get the answers that you're looking for, or I will put you in touch with the person you're trying to reach. So I did make myself available.
[00:50:18] Speaker 4: And did Alec give, to your knowledge, carte blanche to law enforcement to search anywhere that they wished?
[00:50:27] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, he did. In fact, before I was going to just do something, you know, I knew that to be the case, but, yes, he confirmed it with me. Anything they needed, any time they needed it.
[00:50:39] Speaker 4: And you provided consent to search the house the afternoon on the 8th on his behalf, did you not?
[00:50:45] John Marvin Murdoch: I did. And I've consented every time they've ever asked.
[00:50:50] Speaker 4: We'll get to that. Were you ever asked to provide consent or see if you could obtain consent for any law enforcement to search your mom's house, where Alec had been the night before?
[00:51:04] John Marvin Murdoch: Say that to me one more time.
[00:51:05] Speaker 4: Did any law enforcement ask you to consent or obtain consent so that law enforcement could search Almeda, and I'm talking about on the 8th, because Alec had just been there the night before? Did anybody ask you, hey, can we go search Almeda?
[00:51:26] John Marvin Murdoch: No one asked anything.
[00:51:28] Speaker 4: Okay. Would, if asked, would you have obtained consent for law enforcement?
[00:51:33] John Marvin Murdoch: I would have, I would have given them consent, and I would have taken them over there just like I did at Alec's house, and I would have helped facilitate the search to show them areas that they may not know about.
[00:51:43] Speaker 4: Do you remember law enforcement, sled agents, coming to your Greenfield property on June the 10th?
[00:51:58] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir, I did.
[00:52:00] Speaker 4: And what was that about?
[00:52:04] John Marvin Murdoch: I assume they coordinated it with Alec or Randy. You know what, I'm not sure who they coordinated it with, but yes. My understanding is they were coming to interview me, Randy, Alec, Buster. I think that's it. But they wanted to do interviews with all of us.
[00:52:26] Speaker 4: And did everyone congregate there at Greenfield?
[00:52:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. Well, we were at Greenfield. Of course, you know, we're staying there because of all this, and so it keeps me close to Hampton. But, yes, we all congregated there.
[00:52:40] Speaker 4: And when the agents arrived, did they come inside and sit down and talk with each of you, or how did that work?
[00:52:46] John Marvin Murdoch: No, sir, I offered them. I offered them to come inside. As you can imagine, it was hot. I said come in and, you know, offered them a drink of water or whatever, just being polite. And they said, no, you know, we would like to go ahead and start our interviews.
[00:53:00] Speaker 4: And where did the interviews take place? In their cars. And were they all done it simultaneously?
[00:53:07] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[00:53:07] Speaker 4: And how many sled agent cars were out there? Do you remember?
[00:53:10] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, there was one for each person they were interviewing, and I would go ahead and guess that there were probably two or three more.
[00:53:16] Speaker 4: And I'm not sure that we need to actually play this, but have you been in the courtroom and you've heard this audio tape of Alec being interviewed on that June the 10th where he states something, either I did him so bad or they did him so bad? Have you heard that?
[00:53:45] John Marvin Murdoch: I have.
[00:53:47] Speaker 4: And you know Alec's voice?
[00:53:49] John Marvin Murdoch: I know his voice very well.
[00:53:51] Speaker 4: And what is he saying on that tape?
[00:53:53] John Marvin Murdoch: Crystal clear, they did him so bad.
[00:53:55] Speaker 4: And have you heard him say that before his interview that day?
[00:54:00] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, I think I heard him say it either the night of or the day after, but I've also heard him say it many times after.
[00:54:11] Speaker 4: Well before this trial started or anything?
[00:54:13] John Marvin Murdoch: Well before any of this. That's right. When he was staying and living with us or between my brother and us.
[00:54:29] Speaker 4: After Maggie and Paul were murdered on that night of June 7th was, were you or other family members with Alec for the most part, you know, for that week and the week after that?
[00:54:44] John Marvin Murdoch: You're talking about the days following?
[00:54:45] Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
[00:54:46] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. I was. I made a conscious effort to be with him. I mean, as devastating as it was for me, it was a thousand times worse for him. So I knew as a brother I needed to be there for him. And I was, you know, of course I didn't sleep with him, but when we were awake, we, you know, he was, you know, I may not be standing beside him, but we would be in the room together. If we needed to go to the gas station, if he wanted to dip, you know, I'd ride with him. It just, I just knew that's, I just thought that's what I needed to do.
[00:55:23] Speaker 4: What was, what was his demeanor that was in the immediate aftermath of these murders?
[00:55:31] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, Jimmy, that night or days or. That night, the next day, the day after. Like I just said, he is, when you can use words that he was destroyed. I heard somebody say he was broken. You can use any words you want to use to describe, but I can promise you words don't do it justice. I would have to create a new word to, to describe how distraught he was. I, it, it, it's terrible.
[00:55:59] Speaker 4: And to carry it forward all through the summer, did, did he, how was he coping afterwards, say, later June and July and going forward? You know, it's hard to tell.
[00:56:15] John Marvin Murdoch: I, I thought he, at times, I thought he was doing okay. Um, other times, you know, it would just be, just sheer grief. I mean, just uncontrollably crying and just, you know, of course it makes me cry. As y'all can tell, I'm, I'm a pretty emotional guy, but we would just, we would, we would cry together. I'm just, and there's no answers. It's just, and there's nothing I could say to make it better than other than just hugging.
[00:56:41] Speaker 4: Um, did, um, did he start losing weight?
[00:56:50] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, yes, sir. Absolutely.
[00:56:53] Speaker 4: Um, was he eating, sleeping?
[00:56:55] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, he was, he was pretty heavy going into this.
[00:56:58] Speaker 4: Right.
[00:56:59] John Marvin Murdoch: And he, you know, he lost a good bit of weight. I don't know how many pounds, but it became very obvious in a fairly short period of time he lost weight.
[00:57:06] Speaker 4: Um, it's, I skipped over something in my outline and I apologize, but going back on the evening of June 7th, early morning hours, did, um, did, did folks who were there at Almeda, um, raise questions about perhaps the murder? The Maggie and Paul were somehow associated with the, you mean at Moselle? Yeah, the Moselle, um, going back to on the evening of June 7th and June 8th, did folks at Moselle, um, raise issues or associate the potential motive for the murder to be related to the boating acts in some form?
[00:57:49] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I heard it, I heard it numerous times that, that night. I heard it at Moselle and I actually heard it by, well, Greg, Chief Alexander, um, uh, mentioned it. You know, once, once I got over the, the chaotic part of describing what we were doing, why I needed to get to Moselle, he asked me on, you know, he's driving in front of me and, uh, he asked me, do you think it's related to the boat accident? Of course, I, Greg, I don't know, I don't know anything about what's happened.
[00:58:20] Speaker 4: Well, you, you were aware of the boating accident and Paul's charges. Yes, sir. Weren't you aware? And, and was there a backlash in the community over that?
[00:58:29] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it was, it was, it was a lot of backlash. Um, I, I would not say quite as much in the community, but it's on social media and, and media inflamed rumors is what, the way I would describe it. Right. That just, it, it, it was just totally blown, blown out of proportion. And, and, and, and I don't want to downplay the accident, but what they were saying about the, the stuff about Paul and, and Alec, it's just, it was just totally inflamed. And, and I, and I, you asked about the, the boating accident. So, I told y'all that I called, um, uh, Michael Paul, my friend, to, to make sure I could go to the crime scene the next morning. Well, Michael Paul is one of my best friends, if not my best friend, um, I called him that night while we were still down at the crime scene, not because he's in law enforcement, not because of anything, because he's my friend. And I, I actually told him on the phone, I said, uh, uh, uh, MP is what I called him. I said, MP, I don't even know why I called you. I just needed to talk to somebody. And, um, and we talked and, you know, cried a little bit after I described it. And he didn't know what had happened. So I told him and, you know, I cried and he, you could tell he was upset. But in that conversation, he asked me also, do you think it could be related to the boating accident?
[00:59:59] Speaker 4: Um, switching gears a little bit, John Marvin, when, um, talking about visiting at your mom's house, mom and dad's house. Um, there's, um, let's talk, where, where do you routinely park or where do you park sometimes, um, when going over to your mom and dad's house? Uh, me, you asking where I park you and, and others, you know, in the family.
[01:00:38] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, there's a couple of places you can park depending on who's there, um, whether there's other cars there, you know, you can either park it, it, what you call the carport. And there's a big dirt area beside it. Um, you can park there, walk up to the side door, or you can pull around to the, to the back corner, park there. Um, you know, it's, we, we all use both spots.
[01:01:07] Speaker 4: I'm going to pull up and, and look at it on your screen.
[01:01:09] John Marvin Murdoch: As a matter of fact, I told you, it's my mom's birthday. I went there yesterday. I pulled right into the back of the house, but I didn't turn around. I circled the house. So there's, there's.
[01:01:18] Speaker 4: So I'm going to pull up states exhibit 524. It's an evidence, Doug, and, and go to slide 38. And this is, um, the, the, uh, GPS on star data. And if, and Doug, if you'll blow up around the house, please, sir. Thank you. Um, Mr. Murdoch, this is your mom's house. And this is GPS data, uh, from, um, the night of June the 7th. Do you see that, the, the red line there? Yeah, it's pretty blurry on my screen. I don't know about y'all's. You want, you want to back it out a little bit, Doug? All right. Is that better? Well, yes, it's still blurry, but I can see. Where is that in relation to your mom's house?
[01:02:08] John Marvin Murdoch: You're talking about the, um, right there where the arrow's pointing? Yes, sir. That is, uh, at the back corner of the house. Okay. That, that would be exactly where I part yesterday.
[01:02:18] Speaker 4: All right. And if, and if you'll pull up, uh, exhibit 136. And this will be defendants exhibit 136 in evidence. And tell me where that is.
[01:02:43] John Marvin Murdoch: That's the same area. That's what I'm talking about.
[01:02:45] Speaker 4: Is that the same area that we just saw on the, on the, uh, last exhibit with the red dots?
[01:02:51] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, yes.
[01:02:52] Speaker 4: Okay.
[01:02:53] John Marvin Murdoch: Generally speaking, I mean, there's no, it's, it's such a wide open area. So when you pull up, you're not like pulling into the exact same spot each time where you're, you're creating a road or whatnot. It's just, it's just a nice grassy area. You pull up, go up to the back door and you're right there at the back of the house.
[01:03:10] Speaker 4: And, and why do you go to the back of the house?
[01:03:11] John Marvin Murdoch: That's when my mom, when my dad was alive, um, there's a little breakfast room there with a recliner in it. He was either in that recliner at the table, eating in the bed or not at home. I mean, that literally was his, right.
[01:03:29] Speaker 4: So Doug, if you'll pull up defendants, one 30, everything's at the back of the house. Right.
[01:03:34] John Marvin Murdoch: I mean, it's just, they don't use this. It's a, it's a large home and they just don't, you know, as old as they are when my mom can't get out of bed, but as old as they are, they don't go to the front.
[01:03:44] Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I can just skip that one 31 defendants, one 31 in evidence, please. Again, is this sort of the same area of photograph from a different direction?
[01:04:00] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[01:04:00] Speaker 4: Now, what's that structure that we see in the background past that big oak tree?
[01:04:05] John Marvin Murdoch: That was my dad's cookhouse or man cave as some people would call it. That's, okay.
[01:04:11] Speaker 4: Yeah. And, and, and how far is that from, from the house roughly?
[01:04:17] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, I would guess 60 to 80 yards. Okay.
[01:04:22] Speaker 4: And that's, and is it open around there? I mean, from the photo, is that accurate? Oh, it's, absolutely.
[01:04:33] John Marvin Murdoch: All right. That whole area is a grassy area with, with oak trees and pecan trees.
[01:04:51] Speaker 4: John Marvin, I want to go to Labor Day weekend of 2021. Where, where were you that weekend? Do you remember?
[01:05:01] John Marvin Murdoch: Labor Day weekend, 21.
[01:05:04] Speaker 4: When, Alec went to the hospital? Okay, yeah.
[01:05:07] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, yes. So, so I'd been out west fishing and I came in on Saturday night.
[01:05:17] Speaker 4: And did, did you, prior to Labor Day weekend, 2021, were, were you aware as to whether or not Alec had a opioid addiction?
[01:05:29] John Marvin Murdoch: No, sir.
[01:05:30] Speaker 4: Did, uh, you transport Alec, drive Alec from the hospital in Savannah to a detox facility in Atlanta on that, that weekend or?
[01:05:45] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I believe it would have been on that Monday. I was not driving. Uh, Randy and I took him. Randy was driving and I was in the back. But, uh, but yes, sir, we did take him to a detox facility.
[01:05:57] Speaker 4: And, and where was the facility located?
[01:06:00] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, just outside of Atlanta.
[01:06:03] Speaker 4: Okay. And what was, can you describe for the jury Alec's, Alec's condition, like physical condition in the car?
[01:06:14] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. So, when I met Randy over in Savannah, he had Alec and, and I got in the car or, or Randy struck with him. Um, I, I'd never seen anything like it. I've, I've seen television shows of, of talking about the leg twitching and, and squirming us, if you will. And, and that's the first thing I, I mean, you could just tell he was sweating. He was, he was thrashing about, um, you know, Jim, it, I don't know how much detail you want me to go into.
[01:06:49] Speaker 4: What, did he turn around in the seat of the car and what was he doing?
[01:06:51] John Marvin Murdoch: Yeah, so, so maybe halfway there, um, at one point he had taken his seatbelt off and he had his head down where Yafani would be in the seat and is trying to stretch his legs and just kind of steady, just like thrashing them and kicking them. Um, it's just, again, I, I, I've seen TV, but I've never seen something like this in real life.
[01:07:14] Speaker 4: And was he able to control himself?
[01:07:18] John Marvin Murdoch: No, sir. Um, no, I said about detail. So, he, he messed himself. He, he had diarrhea. Um, he just couldn't control it.
[01:07:32] Speaker 4: And then, um.
[01:07:33] John Marvin Murdoch: And I say diarrhea, I'm not talking about at a restroom. I'm not talking about in the car, in his pants.
[01:07:39] Speaker 4: Okay. And, um, after, um, he spent some time in the facility in Atlanta, did, did you and your brother go pick him up and take him to another facility in Orlando, Florida?
[01:07:58] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. We did.
[01:07:59] Speaker 4: Do you remember that?
[01:08:01] John Marvin Murdoch: Um, yes, sir. I did.
[01:08:04] Speaker 4: On the, on the, on the drive to Orlando, do you remember anything happened that stands out to you?
[01:08:08] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, so that drive, um, he was, he was much different. He was, he was more subdued. He was not, it was not the thrashiness, not the twitching, not the, the jerkiness, if you will. I don't know the words that you would use for that, but that's what I'm saying. The, the only thing that really stood out for me is he was, and he slept a lot of the time, but, but he woke up from, from sleeping. And when he woke up, I mean, he jerked forward, and you could just tell that, I mean, it was, it was sheer terror. It just, he just woke up out of a, out of a horrible, horrible dream. And I believe it was him dreaming about what, what he found with Paul and Maggie.
[01:08:57] Speaker 4: Keep going a little further, uh, Mr. Murdoch. And sometime in September, did SLED actually come and search the house at Alameda?
[01:09:06] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[01:09:07] Speaker 4: And were you present?
[01:09:09] John Marvin Murdoch: I was.
[01:09:11] Speaker 4: Okay. And, um, and you, and did, were you informed as to what items were seized during that search?
[01:09:22] John Marvin Murdoch: I was informed of one item that was received, uh, seized.
[01:09:28] Speaker 4: And what item was that?
[01:09:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Um, it was described as a, a coat.
[01:09:33] Speaker 4: What kind of coat?
[01:09:34] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, they didn't tell me what kind of coat.
[01:09:37] Speaker 4: Okay. And, um, and did they tell you where the coat was found?
[01:09:41] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. So, um, so I, I would assume that the, the searching of the house, all that was winding down. Um, so, um, so Agent David Owens and I, I believe Randy was outside near us, but he may have been talking to somebody else. I'm not sure. May have been talking to another agent. I'm not sure. But, but David Owens, um, or Agent Owens came up to me and said, um, we found a coat back on the property. Do you know anything about it? And I said, well, David, I said, if you found it back on the property, I said, my, you know, it's a large piece of property, you know, some 400 something acres. I said, my dad rides this Kubota side by side. It's, it's probably his. And, um, I said, and if you show it to me, I, I can try to identify it. And, of course, he, he said he couldn't show it to him or wouldn't show it to me. I'm not sure what, what it was.
[01:10:35] Speaker 4: Were you sometime later asked to view a photo of a blue raincoat?
[01:10:40] John Marvin Murdoch: I was, well, I was asked to view, um, a raincoat and listen to a audio tape.
[01:10:46] Speaker 4: Of the kennel?
[01:10:47] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[01:10:48] Speaker 4: Okay. On the, the blue raincoat, um, were you informed where it was seized from?
[01:10:55] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I knew where it was seized from because he had already told me. But, uh, but I was, it, it, this instance, I was told that they wanted us to, when I say us, they asked Randy, Lynn, and I to go view the coat and the tape. At, at this point, I knew where it had been, been recovered, but, but they said, we want you to view a coat that had come, been recovered out of a closet.
[01:11:20] Speaker 4: And, and was that different from what you were led to believe when you.
[01:11:24] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, absolutely.
[01:11:27] Speaker 4: Had, um, had you ever, did they ever provide, anybody provide an explanation about why you were giving two different locations where a coat was found?
[01:11:41] John Marvin Murdoch: To this day, no one's told me that.
[01:11:46] Speaker 4: The photo of the coat that they showed you, had, you ever seen that raincoat before?
[01:11:52] John Marvin Murdoch: No, sir.
[01:11:53] Speaker 4: And was it the blue raincoat that?
[01:11:55] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, it certainly looked similar to the one, I saw a picture. I didn't see the coat itself. Um, but it certainly looked, looked to be similar or the same.
[01:12:05] Speaker 4: Had, had you ever seen it before?
[01:12:08] John Marvin Murdoch: No, sir.
[01:12:09] Speaker 4: Did you, um, recognize what closet it came out of, um, when, from photos during this trial?
[01:12:16] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I saw, saw that, and I think I know what closet they're referring to. There's only, there's only two, I'm sorry.
[01:12:22] Speaker 4: The closet as you go up on the, the first flight of stairs before you go at the landing right there, it's, what, what's kept there?
[01:12:35] John Marvin Murdoch: Clothing, not everyday clothing, clothing that's more or less in storage, um, junk. Um, you know, it's, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a, first of all, my dad wouldn't climb stairs even if he could, but he couldn't.
[01:12:51] Speaker 4: Right. The, um, there's, there's some testimony that there's GSR on that raincoat. But, um, got any idea how there could be GSR on clothing in your dad's closet at Alameda?
[01:13:08] John Marvin Murdoch: Objection. No, I'd. Stained.
[01:13:12] Speaker 4: Did, um, your dad carry guns around with him?
[01:13:16] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, no, not like, not in the sense that you're saying. So he was not like Paul that always had guns with him. Um, you know, he would, he would keep a gun if he went dove hunting, for example, and he went on one dove hunt, that gun may ride with him for two months. He, he just would stay, he just would, same with golf clubs if he went back when he would play golf. He, he just, there's a bunch of junk in his truck.
[01:13:44] Speaker 4: During hunting season, was there normally a gun in the back season?
[01:13:47] John Marvin Murdoch: During hunting season, I would say that there usually would be.
[01:13:51] Speaker 4: And, and did he have.
[01:13:52] John Marvin Murdoch: During hunting season, because he always, he always loved to go on a bird hunt.
[01:13:57] Speaker 4: And did, did he have a, uh, a specific gun that he used frequently?
[01:14:02] John Marvin Murdoch: Oh, he had one gun.
[01:14:03] Speaker 4: And was, did that gun have a name?
[01:14:05] John Marvin Murdoch: It did, it was called Bow Whoop.
[01:14:08] Speaker 4: And, uh, and, did he clean it often?
[01:14:13] John Marvin Murdoch: I've never seen him clean it. He, he got that gun in 19, I believe in 1957 for his high school graduation, and he used it for every game that he chased. But, I'm sure it got cleaned somewhere along the way, but I'd never seen him clean it, and I still haven't seen him clean it.
[01:14:30] Speaker 4: Got it. Um. Along the way, have you been receiving updates from SLED on their investigation in the Maggie and Paul's murder?
[01:14:51] John Marvin Murdoch: Usually when I call, I would call Agent Owens and ask for updates, and he would try to provide some updates. It, it, it, it almost always seemed like there was stuff that he really, I don't know, I don't know whether he didn't know, or just, it wasn't at liberty to say at the time, I'm not sure. But yeah, he would, I think he would try to, he would try to give updates as best as possible.
[01:15:17] Speaker 4: And, and, and you provided information on, on evidence that they had against your brother?
[01:15:23] John Marvin Murdoch: I have been, yes, sir.
[01:15:24] Speaker 4: Um, has. Some of it. And, and the information, some of the information that you've been provided turn out not to be accurate information?
[01:15:34] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[01:15:35] Speaker 4: What type of information?
[01:15:37] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I was told at, at one point, that there was a, a t-shirt that he was wearing. And, can I back up and tell you how I got, how we got into this conversation? Sure. So, I'm having a meeting with SLED.
[01:15:55] Speaker 2: Yes, sir. The nature of the drug.
[01:15:57] Speaker 4: Call for your second. Statement of an opponent, Your Honor. Agent of you. It's a statement of a party opponent. Party opponent. Agent of the party opponent.
[01:16:09] Speaker 2: Agent of a party opponent. Yes, sir. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll have you take a break now. Please do not discuss the case. All right, everybody be seated. Hear this, uh, this, hear this objection again.
[01:17:19] Speaker 5: It stays objecting calls for hearsay.
[01:17:22] Speaker 2: All right, and your response to the, uh, Mr. Um. Yes, Your Honor. I'm in here. Just a moment, sir. Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Conrad's response to Mr. Griffin.
[01:17:37] Speaker 5: Your Honor, I think his, uh, argument was it's a state, it's a admission by a party opponent. Um, and I don't think we're talking about it.
[01:17:44] Speaker 2: Party opponent. Party opponent.
[01:17:47] Speaker 5: Right. Uh, and the subsection 80, 80, 801, D2, I think is what we're referencing, uh, and it talks about admission by a party opponent. Uh, and it doesn't necessarily talk about, uh, the statement. Uh, and I think, uh, what we're getting into are some statements by, uh, particular law enforcement officers who've already been on the stand. Uh, and, uh, I don't think those are admissions to any issue that's a relevance in this case.
[01:18:19] Speaker 2: Uh, Mr. Griffin.
[01:18:27] Speaker 4: Your Honor, they're directly relevant. The statements relate to evidence that they've told the family they have against Mr. Murda.
[01:18:34] Speaker 2: Directly relevant?
[01:18:35] Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
[01:18:36] Speaker 2: All right. So, the objection not based on relevance.
[01:18:39] Speaker 4: Oh, I, I thought that's what, so, a statement of a party opponent is non-hearsay under the definition of hearsay. Um, your honor, it's, I don't have the rule in front of me, but under the state of South Carolina is a party opponent in this case. And, and SLED is the investigative agency. Yes, sir. It, it, if otherwise the rule would not apply in the criminal case. I mean, that's, I mean, it has to be an investigative agency. I'm not asking for Collin County statements or it's, it's the.
[01:19:17] Speaker 2: Oh, you've gotten those in already, the newspaper statements, uh, Collin County's call to the newspaper or whatever. Yes, sir. What else, Mr. Um.
[01:19:29] Speaker ?: Conrad.
[01:19:30] Speaker 2: Conrad.
[01:19:30] Speaker 5: I'd also object before the relevance, as well as we are, uh, because, uh, the state has not offered the shirt and the evidence, uh, and, um, the defense is attempting to kind of backdoor here and simply doesn't go to any issue, anything that's issued in this. He's already testified to the shirt, to the shirt, but he's, we're, he's trying to get evidence, uh, and maybe we need to profit to see exactly what he'd say. But my, uh, assumption was that he was going to start talking about a report by Mr. Bevel, uh, which we've talked about several times in this case. Uh, and I'd object to relevance, uh, and to, particularly with Mr. Murdoch, bringing it up.
[01:20:14] Speaker 2: All right, but, uh, tell me again what you're asking the witness. Or a proffer to the witness, yes. Yes, um, yes.
[01:20:23] Speaker 4: So, Mr. Mr. Murdoch, what, what information were you provided by, by, was it a SLED agent that provided you the information?
[01:20:31] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes.
[01:20:32] Speaker 2: You were asking him about Agent Owens, still, he's a SLED agent, yes.
[01:20:35] Speaker 4: And, and what, what information were you provided that, that leading up to this, that, that turns out to be inaccurate?
[01:20:44] John Marvin Murdoch: Right, and, and, and, is it okay for me to speak to him? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, so, so what I was asking, I, I was saying I wanted to back up to get to where I was, where I was getting this information. So, I'd been called to SLED, um, not headquarters, but their office in Waterboro to view the, the blue coat and to listen to an audio. After my interview with them, um, Captain Ryan Neal, I believe we were in his, his office is the one that, and I'm going to use my terminology here, but, but describe the white t-shirt, covered in blood, even went so far as to describe that, that Ellick took the bottom of it and wiped his face with it. And that, that's how they knew he, he was involved. That's how they knew he was there. And, and, and I don't know, I don't know where the question goes after that.
[01:21:42] Speaker 2: Did I ask you a question, or are you trying to dig more out of him? That's it. All right, and what's your objection?
[01:21:47] Speaker 5: I mean, I'd renew my objection to the relevance. Uh, nothing has been put, this, uh, this jury hasn't heard any evidence about any blood being on this t-shirt. Um, and the state has not offered any reports to suggest as such. The objection's overruled.
[01:22:02] Speaker 2: It's going to take 10 minutes. Thank you.
[01:22:13] Speaker 4: Mr. President, sir.
[01:22:13] Speaker 2: All right. Thank you. The objection's overruled.
[01:22:27] Speaker 4: Thank you, Mr. Merlick. When we broke, the question on the table was about a conversation that, that you had with a sled agent regarding some matter of evidence. Can you provide your answer, please, sir?
[01:22:42] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, so, um, as I was about to say, what, what led me to this conversation was, is SLED, um, asked, uh, my brother, my sister, and I to come over to, uh, uh, identify or attempt to identify a coat and, uh, a recording. Um, and we did that, and so I, I did my interview with them, and then after the interview, we went into, um, Captain Ryan Neal's, I think he's Captain, but, but, but Agent Ryan Neal's office at this, at the same SLED office. And in that office, or in that, uh, in his office, uh, we were all in there. Um, they made reference to a, uh, the shirt that they said Ellick was wearing. They told us that it was covered in blood. They went so far as to tell me on the, on the police body cam that he takes his shirt and wipes his face. And that's how they knew that Ellick was at the scene, that he was the one.
[01:23:51] Speaker 4: John Marvin, um, just finishing up. What was Ellick's relationship with Maggie and Paul's parents? Um, grandma and Papa T, as we've heard.
[01:24:03] John Marvin Murdoch: Grandma and Papa T, that's great. They had a great relationship. Um, Ellick and Papa T played golf together regularly. I mean, it just a, it's just a really good, uh, father-in-law, son-in-law relationship. And, and, and mother-in-law. And have you, um, they would travel together, you know, vacation together with different places.
[01:24:23] Speaker 4: And, and have you stayed in contact with them as best you could?
[01:24:27] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. Okay. We communicate.
[01:24:29] Speaker 4: And, and just.
[01:24:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Now, Papa T, uh, has taken, has taken ill, um, and, and is homebound now.
[01:24:37] Speaker 4: I was going to ask you, he's.
[01:24:38] John Marvin Murdoch: Yeah, he's, he's, he's had a stroke and, um, and, and is, is basically homebound. Okay. And, and Miss, Miss Kennedy stays at home and takes care of him. But, but they are wonderful people. Let me just go a little bit further. Wonderful people, um, in and of themselves, but their relationship was, was absolutely great.
[01:25:03] Speaker 4: Jamar, I, I want to go back to that morning of June the 8th when you were, um, down at the kennel cleaning up. Do you remember, um, making a promise that morning?
[01:25:26] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, Jim, as, as I've, I've told y'all that y'all know what I saw, y'all know what I was doing. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was difficult. It was, it was nearly impossible. Um, I, you know, in my mind and out loud, I told Paul I loved him. I told him, I don't know. I just, I, I loved him and, and I promised him that I'd find out who did this to him. It's just, it's, you still know what to do, but it was just, it was tough.
[01:25:57] Speaker 4: And you promised him you would find out who did this to him.
[01:26:03] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir. I did.
[01:26:04] Speaker 4: Have you found out?
[01:26:05] John Marvin Murdoch: I have not.
[01:26:06] Speaker 4: All right. Thank you. That's all the questions I have.
[01:26:14] Speaker ?: All right.
[01:26:14] Speaker 5: Good afternoon, Mr. Murdoch. Good afternoon. Uh, I think you'd agree with me that no matter which way you cut it, your family suffered a great tragedy, hasn't it? Oh, absolutely.
[01:26:25] John Marvin Murdoch: And, uh, including the death of my dad and the sickness of my mom. I mean, it's just, it's tough.
[01:26:31] Speaker 5: All right. And I'm, I'm sorry you've been, you and your family's been through this. Well, thank you. All right. Yeah. I think you testified a little while ago about the cooperation you and particularly your brother provided SLED. Is that correct?
[01:26:46] John Marvin Murdoch: Did I, did I provide cooperation with SLED? Yes. Absolutely.
[01:26:49] Speaker 5: And you, to your knowledge.
[01:26:51] John Marvin Murdoch: I have and, and, and will continue to. All right.
[01:26:53] Speaker 5: And to your knowledge, your brother was providing cooperation to SLED as well, correct?
[01:26:57] John Marvin Murdoch: I believe every, everyone in my family was. Yes, sir. Okay.
[01:27:00] Speaker 5: All right. Uh, and would you consider that cooperation full cooperation? Not only for yourself, but your brother as well, from what you have observed?
[01:27:09] John Marvin Murdoch: I mean, to me, full cooperation? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's wide open. You, you tell us what you need from me and, and I'll, I'll provide it. And I told him I would provide it. Right.
[01:27:20] Speaker 5: And from what you've observed, your brother was, was providing the same full cooperation as well, correct?
[01:27:26] John Marvin Murdoch: Yeah. So I believe, um, I believe anytime that they asked to, to search something, anytime they asked to, to do something, they asked for information. Um, it typically came to me and yes, I would, I would provide it.
[01:27:38] Speaker 5: Okay. I'm asking about your brother right now. I understand you have, but to your knowledge, did your brother provide full cooperation or did he tell you he was providing full cooperation?
[01:27:46] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, he didn't tell me, but, but it, it appeared to be obvious that by him giving them access to anything they asked for that, that he was.
[01:27:55] Speaker 5: Okay. So when did you first learn that your brother was down at the kennels just before the murders? Two days ago with the rest of us.
[01:28:04] John Marvin Murdoch: No, no, um, you know, I, so obviously I went into for an interview with sled, the one I told you about where we, we talked about the shirt and talked about the blood, all that, that was, that was the reason for me being there was to hear that audio. And I saw the kennel. And of course, at that point I heard his voice and I knew, I knew that was him.
[01:28:27] Speaker 5: Okay. Uh, you knew that was him when you saw that video, correct? That's correct. Or listened to the video. When I listened to it. All right. And do you recall the date of that, uh, interview when you first listened to that video? I do not. All right. Would, would you disagree with me if I said it was August 12th of 2022?
[01:28:43] John Marvin Murdoch: I have no way to agree or disagree.
[01:28:45] Speaker 5: Or at least during the month of August of 2022?
[01:28:47] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, again, I, I'm sure they have my interview recorded for that date, but
[01:28:53] Speaker 5: did that. All right. Um, before August of 2022, at that interview, when you heard your brother's voice at the kennels, uh, had he ever told you that he was down there just prior to the murders? No, sir. Did he ever tell you that afterwards, after you listened to that video?
[01:29:14] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, no, sir. And I'm trying to think if we've, if we've been able to have an opportunity to even speak. Okay.
[01:29:22] Speaker 5: Okay. All right. So you'd agree that if he had not told SLED that, that was not full cooperation, correct? If he had not told SLED that he was at the kennels just before the murders, he had not actually been fully cooperative. What was your question? Would you agree that that is not full cooperation?
[01:29:39] John Marvin Murdoch: By him not telling SLED that he was at the kennel? Correct. I would say that, yes, he lied. Okay.
[01:29:46] Speaker 5: All right. So I don't want to go through the whole kind of vehicle shell game that we talked about earlier. It's confusing probably to me, most of all, but let's, let's just focus on, uh, so Paul's, what was Paul's normal daily driver? What vehicle did he drove nor drive on a daily basis?
[01:30:04] John Marvin Murdoch: On a normal basis, he drove a white F-150, um, platinum.
[01:30:10] Speaker 5: Okay.
[01:30:10] John Marvin Murdoch: And let me confuse you a little bit more as I drive the identical truck. Okay.
[01:30:15] Speaker 5: All right. Uh, so you testified that that Paul's F-150 platinum was at Jimmy Butler's over the weekend, correct? It was being worked on at Jimmy Butler's. That's correct. And then Monday, there's a series of car swaps. I don't want to go through them, but at the end of the day, uh, you end up in the F-250 farm truck, correct? That's correct. All right. And Paul ends up in your F-150 platinum. Ultimately, he does.
[01:30:39] John Marvin Murdoch: He drives a mom's car back to Almeida and gets my truck. I know there's several swaps. Yes, sir. That's, that's correct.
[01:30:43] Speaker 5: I'm just kind of talking at the end of the day. Um, and he drove your F-150 back to Al Moselle, excuse me, that night, correct?
[01:30:53] John Marvin Murdoch: To Moselle. Yes, sir. All right.
[01:30:55] Speaker 5: Uh, and, uh, you testified that you came over, uh, later that night after Alex had called you about the murders, correct? That's correct. Where was your truck parked when you first got there? And we'll talk about how you got there in a minute, but where was Paul's truck?
[01:31:11] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, so first of all, that night.
[01:31:13] Speaker 5: Your truck, I'm sorry.
[01:31:14] John Marvin Murdoch: That's right. I know what you're saying. So, so when I got there, we didn't go anywhere near the house. I went straight to where everything was happening. Okay. Um, as we went to the house later that night, I saw my truck. So it's probably four in the morning, whatever time we were, three or four in the morning. It was parked in front of the house, normally where you would park cars.
[01:31:33] Speaker 5: Okay. So just kind of out straight out the front door.
[01:31:35] John Marvin Murdoch: That's correct.
[01:31:36] Speaker 5: And, uh, the keys that Paul had been using, do you recall where they left in the truck or, or have any recollection of where those keys might ended up?
[01:31:44] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, they were sitting in the ignition in the same place. I always leave them.
[01:31:47] Speaker 5: Okay.
[01:31:47] John Marvin Murdoch: Because I drove it to Alameda that night.
[01:31:50] Speaker 5: All right. Um, and meanwhile, you were in that F-250 farm truck, right? For a short period of time. Uh, and that refresh my memory. Was that, is that white as well, or is that a dirt? It's white as well. Yes, sir. Uh, and it, it's broke down on you on the way to Moselle that, and correct. That is correct. On highway 63. All right. And you left it on the side of the road, correct? I did. Okay. And I think, did you call, uh, Chief Alexander at that point or?
[01:32:19] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, we were riding, you know, we were driving separate cars, but together.
[01:32:23] Speaker 5: Okay.
[01:32:24] John Marvin Murdoch: And so at that point he had gotten in front of me and I had to call him to tell him to turn around. Okay. And he came back and picked you up. Came back and I jumped in his car.
[01:32:31] Speaker 5: You left truck or whatever. It's suburban. I'm sorry. I'm trying to talk over you. My apologies. Uh, and you left the F two 50 there on the side of the road. I did. Okay. All right. And rode with Chief Alexander to the property. That's correct. Um, were you aware that, uh, uh, your brother, Alex had loaned Chief Alexander money at several points over the past couple of years? I was not. Okay. All right. And you testified that, uh, you learned of your brother's opioid addiction, uh, the weekend of, uh, labor day of 2021. Is that correct? That's when it started coming out. Yes, sir. Okay. So did you have any idea that he had a opioid or drug problem prior to that? Prior to that, I did not. Okay. So from your, uh, observations of him on a daily basis, he seemed to be sober, uh, at most times or, or not under the influence of any, did you ever observe him early?
[01:33:29] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, keep in mind now. So again, I'm not a lawyer in the firm. I live in Beaufort. So I, you know, I don't see him daily, but, but our encounters usually would be during, uh, non working hours, but even then, yes. Um, I had, he had no, I had no reason to think he was on, on pills. Okay.
[01:33:50] Speaker 5: All right. Um, he's able to function pretty normally on a daily basis to your observations. Yes, sir. Okay. All right. Um, okay. So let's, let's talk about the morning of June 8th. You said that you were the first person over to the house at Moselle that morning. Is that, did I understand? That's correct. Uh, and you're the first person inside the house at that point. That's correct. Okay. Um, and so do you recall when Blanca Simpson got there? I don't, um, what I can tell you is I was the last to leave the house and the first to come back in. Okay. So she would have gotten there some point after you.
[01:34:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes. And I've heard in testimony that instead of going to Moselle, she went to Almeda.
[01:34:34] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Um, but when she came to Moselle, it would have been after you, correct?
[01:34:39] John Marvin Murdoch: I think the other folks were there as well.
[01:34:42] Speaker 5: Yeah, but well after me. Okay. And you testified about being in that, I guess some folks call it the gun room, uh, when Slade came in and started looking at some of those guns in the gun room, correct? That's correct. Well, I wasn't in the gun room. I was in the main part of the house. Okay. Did you ever go into the gun room while Slade was in there? I did. Okay. Um, because I think there's a video and evidence and we're not going to go dig it up, but, uh, of, uh, SLED with camera, body camera footage. And I think you do appear a bit. I think so.
[01:35:11] John Marvin Murdoch: I think probably what, uh, best recollection I have is I was in the main part of the house with Alec and family and someone came and told me they were there and that they wanted to look around. Okay. And of course, I went to make sure that they had full access.
[01:35:26] Speaker 5: When you were in there, do you recall who was in there with you other than the SLED agents? Because there were several other people, correct?
[01:35:31] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I don't recall if you, without seeing the video, I saw the video. I saw Mark Ball. I saw Lee Cope. Um, I saw the, the agent McAllister, but, but I, I don't think I would have remembered that.
[01:35:44] Speaker 5: Okay. But there are several attorneys in there though at a minimum. Friends and attorneys, friends. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Uh, was Chris Wilson in there at that time? You know, I don't, I don't remember.
[01:35:55] John Marvin Murdoch: I don't have any recollection of him being there. Okay.
[01:35:59] Speaker 5: Um, all right. Let's go to June 10th when SLED came over to, I believe it was Greenfield where they came. That's correct. It was you, Buster, uh, Randy, Alex, uh, I guess that's four, right? Is that all we were interviewed that day to your recollection? Um, Randy, me, Buster, that's correct. Okay. Uh, I think you testified that they didn't want to come inside. Is that what you testified to?
[01:36:25] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I mean, I don't think they didn't not want to come inside because of any particular reason. I just think they wanted to get about their business.
[01:36:33] Speaker 5: So you don't recall.
[01:36:34] John Marvin Murdoch: I offered for them. I offered to come in, use the restroom, anything of that nature, drink water, anything like that. But they, they did not.
[01:36:43] Speaker 5: You don't recall Lieutenant Gint coming in and introduce himself? Inside the lodge? Mm-hmm. I do not. Okay. All right. Um, and you've, you've either been interviewed or sat in several interviews by SLED over the last few years, correct? I've been in a few, yes, sir. Okay. Um, and I'm going to direct your attention to October 12th of 2010. Let me make sure I have that date correct. Or excuse me, not 2010. That would have been 2021. Uh, and I believe SLED came to your house that day. Do you recall that? I do recall SLED coming to my house. Okay.
[01:37:24] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, I, I can't tell you that's the date, but they certainly came.
[01:37:27] Speaker 5: This would have been the day that they interviewed both Buster and your wife, uh, that day. Do you, does that help you out? It does. I, I remember them coming. Okay.
[01:37:35] John Marvin Murdoch: It was, um, uh, Jeff, Agent Croft and, um, and I believe, um, Agent Ryan Kelly.
[01:37:41] Speaker 5: Okay. Um, and, uh, you sat into both those interviews, correct? With both Buster and, and your wife?
[01:37:49] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, I think the, the interview with, with one was an interview for Buster. Okay. And one was an interview with, with me and my wife.
[01:37:57] Speaker 5: Okay. All right. So you, you.
[01:37:59] John Marvin Murdoch: That's the way I, that's the way I thought it was. Okay. I didn't think it was three interviews.
[01:38:03] Speaker 5: All right. And do you recall during that October 12th interview, the subject of this blue jacket coming up with Buster? Specifically, I'm talking about the one with Buster. The conversation at my house? Yes. I do not recall it coming up. Okay. You, so you don't recall, uh, Sled bringing up, uh, asking Buster about the blue jacket on October 12th? I do not recall that. So you don't recall, uh, his response.
[01:38:29] John Marvin Murdoch: I, I don't recall him bringing up a jacket.
[01:38:31] Speaker 5: Okay. Uh, do you recall Buster responding that he did not recognize the blue jacket that was presented to him?
[01:38:39] John Marvin Murdoch: I don't recall the blue jacket being discussed. Okay.
[01:38:41] Speaker 5: And I think you also looked at it and you don't, you don't recall.
[01:38:45] John Marvin Murdoch: They did not show me a blue jacket. There, there was no blue jacket discussion in that interview to my knowledge.
[01:38:51] Speaker 5: Okay. Um, let's see, um, one of the big courts in the woods. Do you recall what Buster's response in that interview to being asked if that could be Randolph's jacket to him saying if it's over $15? No, it wasn't.
[01:39:21] Speaker 4: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay what Buster said. He's asking if you recall what Buster said.
[01:39:29] Speaker 2: I sustained the objection.
[01:39:31] Speaker 5: And then you agreed with what Buster said right afterwards. You don't recall that?
[01:39:43] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, no, Mr. Conner, what I'm telling you is I don't recall any discussions of a blue jacket in, in that interview. I, I just don't recall that. I don't, so you asking me that, I'm just telling you, I don't know of any discussions about a jacket in that interview. Okay.
[01:40:02] Speaker 5: All right, um, you testified about driving up to rehab, um, I think that Monday after Labor Day, or excuse me, uh, detox, correct? It was detox, that's correct. Um, and you said your brother kind of woke up startling as if from a dream. Is that what you testified to? No, sir.
[01:40:22] John Marvin Murdoch: I said that when I was driving, well, Randy and I were driving him from detox to the rehab facility, down and that was down in Orlando, Florida is when that happened.
[01:40:33] Speaker 5: All right. And you said, and again, I wanted to make, make this as clear as we can. You said you thought that he was waking up in response to a dream about the night of June 7th. Does that understand that correctly?
[01:40:45] John Marvin Murdoch: That is the way I, I, that's what it appeared to be to me. And that's, of course, I can't tell you what he was dreaming, but that's certainly what it appeared to me. So you're not saying that because he said that, right? He, that's right. He, he didn't wake up and say that. It's just, it was a, just such a startling, um, just the way he woke up out of his sleep. It was just so startling. It was fear. It just, and it, and it took him several seconds to, to realize that whatever he just, he, he just saw was not real or was not, he was not living it.
[01:41:19] Speaker 5: Okay. Um, you testified about, um, the day of June 7th and the, taking your dad to the, to the hospital, him getting admitted, correct? I did. And that you were, you and your brother, Randy, were sending out multiple group texts about your dad's status. Is that correct? Well, I sent a text and I believe Randy sent one as well. Okay.
[01:41:43] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, and along with phone calls. Um, I know Randy and I discussed it on the phone as well.
[01:41:49] Speaker 5: Um, and if I understood your testimony correctly and, uh, you said that, uh, June 7th is actually kind of a hopeful day. Is that, uh, based off of what the doctors were saying?
[01:42:00] John Marvin Murdoch: Well, yes, based on the, all the bad news that he's been receiving, it, it, it, it was one little piece of, of hope that, you know, certainly if the doctor would have said at that point, you know, you're going home on hospice tomorrow, it would have been, that would be the worst case. But him saying that there was hope that it was pneumonia and not the cancer, that there was some breathing treatments that may help, it, it gave us some hope.
[01:42:26] Speaker 5: And you sent out at least one group text with this information, correct? To your family members, right?
[01:42:32] John Marvin Murdoch: I know I said one, I could have sent another, but I know there was one. Okay.
[01:42:36] Speaker 5: Uh, and do you recall if your brother was included in that? Alex specifically was included?
[01:42:41] John Marvin Murdoch: You know, I saw the, the, the record showing it. And so, yes, um, I believe it was my family and, and I think it was just our family actually.
[01:42:52] Speaker 5: And so, uh, there was hope at least on the afternoon, June 7th, that your daddy who had pneumonia, which could potentially be treated. And, uh, there was a little bit of hope about that, correct?
[01:43:05] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes, sir.
[01:43:06] Speaker 5: Okay. So if your brother, uh, had told Janine Sechinger, uh, during that day that your dad was taking a major turn of the worst, that would not be truthful, correct?
[01:43:18] John Marvin Murdoch: That would be correct. That would be correct. And the testimony I heard is he didn't say that. He didn't say what? He didn't say it was terminal. Or dire or whatever, whatever you're saying.
[01:43:29] Speaker 5: Are you based off of Alex's testimony?
[01:43:30] John Marvin Murdoch: Uh, yes, sir. Okay. So if Janine Sechinger-- Well, I can tell you this. If somebody said that day that it was terminal, one of two people was wrong, or both.
[01:43:44] Speaker 5: Okay.
[01:43:46] Speaker ?: All right.
[01:43:46] Speaker 5: So if Janine Sechinger was told that--
[01:43:48] John Marvin Murdoch: If Janine Sechinger said that, she was wrong.
[01:43:52] Speaker 5: Well, were you present for any conversations between your brother and Janine Sechinger on June 7th?
[01:43:56] John Marvin Murdoch: I wasn't.
[01:44:24] Speaker 5: One last thing, Mr. Murdoch. Would you say that the Murdoch name and legacy is something that's important to you and your brothers?
[01:44:35] John Marvin Murdoch: Yes. I think any family's name and legacy is important to them. Do I think my family's name is more important than yours or any of y'all's? No, I don't. But it's important to your brother as well, correct? I think he would feel the exact same way as what I just said, that all families are important. Okay. No problem, no.
[01:44:58] Speaker 2: Any redirect? No, Your Honor. Thank you. You messed up now. Thank you.
[01:45:07] Speaker 6: Defense refs, Your Honor.
[01:45:08] Speaker 2: All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is the defense's case. And we will excuse you for this day and have you come back at 9:30 tomorrow morning. Have a good evening. If everyone will be seated. Defense is rested. Any matters of law at this time?
[01:46:20] Speaker 4: Your Honor, we would -- defense would just renew our motion for directed verdict on the grounds previously argued at the close of the state's case. That's all.
[01:46:31] Speaker 2: Mr. Waters.
[01:46:32] Speaker 1: Your Honor, again, we would rely on our arguments previously made that the motion should be denied. I'd be happy to answer any specific issues your Honor may have, but I would rely on our previous arguments.
[01:46:44] Speaker 2: The motion is denied based on all the reasons stated at the close of the state's case. Now, with regard to reply, what do you have, Mr. Waters?
[01:46:57] Speaker 1: Yes, sir. We have maybe four witnesses, maybe five at this point in time. I'm hopeful that we could accomplish that in a day. Obviously, as is the nature of reply, we will assess that tonight. But right now I have four definite witnesses and perhaps a fifth that, as it stands right now, that we would have. I don't think many of them except for one would be very lengthy. And by lengthy, I don't mean exceptionally so.
[01:47:36] Speaker 2: Any comment, Mr. Harputlian or Mr.?
[01:47:48] Speaker 6: Your Honor, I'm no way critical of Mr. Waters, but his estimate of time has been a little mushy, I think is a good way to put it. I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying this was going to be a three-week trial and now it's a six-week trial. I'm just a little skeptical that we'll get it all done tomorrow. I'm just saying I'll be happy, I'll be ecstatic if it happens. But for planning purposes, perhaps maybe midday, Wednesday would be a better period. Pardon me? Oh, and somewhere in this process, Your Honor has indicated you would allow the jury to visit the site.
[01:48:33] Speaker 2: I have a close of the reply.
[01:48:37] Speaker 6: Okay. So we're at, I guess, Mr. Waters' mercy.
[01:48:43] Speaker 2: Mr. Waters, are these witnesses who you anticipate will contradict issues presented by the defense or address the credibility of matters raised by the defense?
[01:48:57] Speaker 1: They will be focused on issues that were raised during the defense case, yes, sir.
[01:49:02] Speaker 2: All right.
[01:49:03] Speaker ?: All right.
[01:49:04] Speaker 2: Okay. Roll. 9:30 tomorrow morning. Have a good evening.