A Debate on Toy Collecting and the Toy industry

[00:00:00] Jay: Geek Dad Life presents Toy Geeks, a live toy talk show. Tonight we're going to have a special debate between Michael French of Retro Blasting and Scott Knightlick of Spectre Creative over toy collecting and the toy industry. All for the charity Make-A-Wish Foundation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Hello everybody and welcome to Toy Geeks. My name is Jay and with me as always on this journey of toy geekery is my good friend John. John, how are you doing tonight? [00:00:38] John: I'm doing well. How are you Jay? [00:00:40] Jay: I am doing alright. It has been a long and somewhat stressful week but really thankful and excited to be here and to have the two guests that we're going to have on today to have a spirited debate on toy collecting and the toy industry. And again, everybody that is here right now, you know why you are here. But before we bring out these distinguished guests, I definitely wanted to roll through kind of what we're going to be talking about today. What are the ground rules? And kind of do a quick recap maybe for those that don't know why we're here. We're going to let the actual people that were part of this talk about it. But at least just give a quick recap before we bring them out. So first up, this is a lively debate. Or not a lively debate, but it is a debate. But I do ask that we are all respectful of each other. The chat is hopping to a level by which it has never hopped before. So I won't be able to like press everybody in like I usually do. But thank you all for being here. And for everybody that is here in the chat, I definitely wanted to go over some ground rules. The roerger. So first, live chat questions may be used. So depending on what's being discussed at the time, and maybe there's a pertinent opportunity to plus in a question from the chat to either Michael or Scott. But one thing I do ask is that we do not use super chats. No super chats. For starters, I don't want to necessarily seem like you have to pay money to get your question asked on the show. I do know that we're donating all of the ad revenue from this to Make-A-Wish Foundation. So I can understand the idea that, well, this will go to that charity as well. It would. But again, YouTube takes half of whatever super chat you'll put in. So if you have, you know, money to spare, I would just recommend giving it directly to the charity. And again, this way to make it more equitable for everybody in the chat to not use super chats, especially for those that maybe don't have the spare money to spend. I don't want that to be what gets people's questions on versus not. Next up, zero tolerance for trolls and chuckleheads. What does that mean? We are here because we love toys. We love the toy collecting community. And, you know, we really want to kind of foster, you know, really what we all aspire to enjoy in toy collecting. So for anybody that is in this chat to try and stir crap or make a nuisance or use any defamatory language, inflammatory language, YouTube will probably just not let that chat show anyway. But we do have moderators in the chat. So if there's anything trying to start a fight or just saying outlandish things or just, again, just trying to be a troll or chucklehead, we do have moderators that are going to be scanning the chat live. And depending on the severity, you can be put in timeout or just banned from the chat. And as we all hear, let's remember to treat guests and each other with kindness and respect. Scott and Michael have taken time to be here today to talk about this because they care about these topics. And so let's treat them with respect and then everybody in the chat. Again, we're all part of this community. So, again, let's treat each other with kindness and respect. Different opinions are perfectly welcome and okay. But, again, don't be a jerk. The debate topics for today, we're going to – these are the main topics. It doesn't mean this is the only thing we're going to be talking about. But the origins and fallout, so what's brought us here today. Next up is the creation of Sky High. Another topic is going to be the Spectre of Spectre. And then we're going to close out with corporations and collectors. So those are going to be the topics. And now just a quick recap to what got us here. You know, for those that follow Spectre Creative, does a great job talking about the toy industry as well as other topics. But there were a few videos that you may have seen or haven't seen that either directly or indirectly, you know, called out retro blasting Michael French's ideas or otherwise. And then, in turn, especially after this one, I think he was trying to talk about last week. Like, ugh, it's probably not – Michael's going to say something. Even though I think Scott was, you know, saying it wasn't him. But it was like, eh, it seemed like it was him. It made a video, the hostile makeover, which was a very heated video towards Scott. Not so much about HasLab, which I'm sure we're going to talk about today, but just more about his history and impact to the toy industry and Masters of the Universe. So, that is why we are here. And without any further ado, let us bring on our guest. First up from Retro Blasting, Michael French. Michael, welcome. [00:05:58] Speaker 3: Hi. It's good to see you again, Jay and John. It's nice to see you. It's been too long. [00:06:02] Jay: It has, right? Like, pre-pandemic, we had these ideas of, like, oh, we'll do more toy shows. Right. [00:06:08] Speaker 3: But it's good to see you guys again. It was the best toy show I've ever been to. I said that at the time. And I still maintain it. So, thanks for having me there. [00:06:16] Jay: Thank you very much. High praise. We appreciate it very much. And for those who don't know, we do a little toy show in Raleigh called NCToyCon. And we're hopefully getting back to it once the pandemic kind of settles. So, thank you for that, Michael. And then next up, long-time brand manager for Mattel, among many others, helped bring about Masters of Universe Classics, MattyCollector.com, and also recently started a YouTube channel, Spectre Creative. And we've had him on the show before. Really kind guest. Happy to have him here. And it is Scott Knightlick, a.k.a. Toy Guru. Scott, happy to have you on. [00:06:56] Speaker 4: Hey. I'm here. [00:06:58] Speaker ?: Hi. [00:07:00] Jay: Welcome. Welcome. I was worried you might have your little Lego minifigures representing you today, but happy it is you, good sir. [00:07:09] Speaker 4: My wife actually asked me if I was going to do that. [00:07:14] Jay: So, again, thank you, gentlemen, for both being here. Excited to have you here. And not going to waste any time. Let's just, any thoughts before we do get into the topics? Are we good to roll? [00:07:28] Speaker 3: Well, I just wanted to confirm one thing. Thank you for setting the stage for this. But I wanted to make sure that one thing was confirmed. There is this idea out there that for the last two years, there has been this ongoing back and forth rivalry between Scott and myself on social media. And that's not accurate. The very first video where one of us mentioned the other person was on May 9th, 2021, called Facts and Experience in Response to Retroblasting. That was Scott's video. Prior to that, Scott and I really didn't make each other's radar. And I'd never spoken to him. He'd never spoken to me. I did not do a response video to that. And then there were some thinly veiled references to my channel in subsequent videos, most recently the Sentinel video, which you pulled the thumbnail above. And at that point, I went and did my video, which was the one and only time I've ever mentioned Scott's name on my channel in a video post, like a dedicated video. So I just want to get that out there because there's this idea that there's this like West Side Story thing going on between the two of us. And it's like, no, that's not accurate at all. So I just want to put that out there. [00:08:53] Jay: Well, you know, I, and that's kind of, it ties into the first topic of the night origins and fall. Like, how did, how did we get here? And, you know, I appreciate you kicking that off first, Michael. To Scott, I will give you a chance to respond to what Michael said there in terms of, you know, responsibility or at least leading to Michael feeling like he had to make a response to the videos that you were putting out. [00:09:27] Speaker 4: Absolutely. Believe me, I'm so excited to just talk about the toy industry and like, this is going to be great because I think this whole conversation is going to be so positive for the fans. My audio is working now, right? We're good. [00:09:41] Speaker 3: Yep. I can hear you. [00:09:43] Speaker 4: Uh-oh. Am I not? No, you are. [00:09:45] Jay: You're good. [00:09:45] Speaker 4: Okay, good. [00:09:47] Jay: I will say, Scott, you might be on a delay. So just roll with it, but we can hear you. [00:09:54] Speaker 4: Okay, I'll assume that. And I may have a quick two-minute break on the hour to just say goodnight to my daughter. Okay. So, yeah, like Michael said, there's no, as far as I know, there's no, you know, jets and sharks thing going on here. And Michael is absolutely correct. The first time I ever mentioned retroblasting was on the video. He noted, uh, the, that was by, there was a request from my comment for people who have watched my channel. You mean that most of my topics come directly from people who comment. I comment back on every single comment. And a lot of them are suggestions for me. [00:10:37] Jay: And, uh, we had, we had Scott drop out, um, from what I could gather, um, seemingly agreeing with, uh, Michael in terms of, of how it was, uh, started in that they didn't, there was no sharks and jets. Uh, we have toy drew Scott coming back in. Let's try to press him back in. Uh, we'll wait a second for his audio to come back. Maybe. Um, Michael, I, I'm going to give you the floor here while we wait for Scott to come back. Um, you know, there's, uh, with, uh, you are back. I'm going to let Michael have a chance to respond a little bit here and then we'll, we'll come back to you. [00:11:22] Speaker 3: I'm happy to give him the floor. I know he didn't finish. So go ahead. [00:11:25] Jay: Go ahead. [00:11:29] Speaker 4: Oh, okay. I mean, yeah. So basically, um, as Michael said, um, that video was from, uh, respond to someone in the collection and what I said about retroblastic, uh, in that video. And I quote, uh, at two minutes and 50 seconds, that was a great video and a great channel. Um, you know, very complimentary of what he does. I just want to do correct. Oh, I thought was some misinformation about how distribution happens. Um, and at nine minutes. Two seconds and the not. [00:12:11] Speaker 3: I believe the quote he was about to do, uh, relate to you was quote, I hope this video clarified that I am in no way bashing on anyone. All YouTube sites about toys long live them. The only problem with that is that on September 17th of 2021 in his, let me tell you why you're wrong video, he says, and I quote, when haters are fueled completely. By their opinion and are not backing that up with fact. And then at the end of that video, he makes the statement. We have to try and strain out the people that are giving their opinions as facts, because it's only going to rise the frustration level. So watch out for those types of videos. They're not healthy for us. So while he's saying that he's in no way bashing anyone. He's also actively trying to tell people what YouTube channels not to watch. [00:13:11] Jay: Uh, yeah. And I did want to give you a chance to respond to that aspect of it. Um, in terms of, you know, that almost basically telling people not to take part in, in your content. Uh, how do you want to respond to that? [00:13:30] Speaker 3: Well, he, he couches it in the idea that opinions can be disguised as facts. And therefore you have to watch out for content creators trying to do that. The problem is, is that that means ostensibly that any opinion, whether it's positive or negative, can be hidden as a fact. Um, however, my opinions, uh, which are tied to facts. So for example, the Sentinel has loose knees, we've been seeing the videos, we've been seeing the posts there, there's a problem with the has lab sentinels knees. That is a fact. The opinion is whether or not that's passable and okay for the company to have allowed that to go by or whether the consumer should be legitimately upset about that. Um, if my opinion had been that it's passable and okay, because that would have been a pro corporate opinion tied to a fact, then I would have never heard hide nor hair from Scott on this. I don't think it's about whether or not opinions are tied to facts. And I'll just, I'll just point this out. Um, in his August 8th, 2021 video, he says about has lab, he says, and I quote, the margin on the secondary market was giant for the sale barge. And that's what unlocked the ability to do the razor crest because now Hasbro was like, oh, maybe the stuff does sell. But as far as I know, Scott Knightlick has never worked for Hasbro. And I'm not aware of Scott Knightlick being privy to Hasbro's decision-making inside its own walls. So the way he has worded this makes it sound like a fact, but it's an opinion that's disguised as a fact. So what I'm trying to get across here is that it's not about whether or not opinions are being disguised as facts. It's about whether or not Scott agrees with the opinion. And if he had agreed with my opinions on everything, I never would have gotten ambulance chased by him and his content. [00:15:41] Jay: Um, Scott, I know you've been in and out, uh, but I do want to, uh, give you a chance to respond. Um, uh, how much have, have you heard Scott? Can you hear me? [00:15:56] Speaker 4: Um, yeah, I mean, I think I got most of it. I'm trying with two different devices. I have no idea [00:16:00] Jay: why. If you want to turn off your video, that may use less bandwidth. [00:16:08] Speaker 4: Oh, turn off my, turn off my video. Yeah. Maybe that'll use less bandwidth and just [00:16:13] Jay: use the audio. Here we go. [00:16:18] Speaker 4: How is that? [00:16:20] Jay: Perfect. [00:16:21] Speaker 4: Is that working better? [00:16:22] Speaker ?: Yeah. [00:16:25] Speaker 4: Okay. Um, um, I'm happy to do that. Although, although you'll miss all my facial expressions. Um, well, here, let me, I'll try to, I don't know. Let me just try to turn it. I hate to like not let people see what I'm talking about. Um, if it kicks me off again, then, um, so, sorry, Michael, I missed part of what I'm trying to get, um, but [00:16:51] Jay: yeah, hopefully we can get in my, I'm sorry, Scott back in, uh, and maybe just using, uh, just the audio, uh, again, apologize for the, uh, the effects of that there. Um, I can also try to press in your call, uh, phone, uh, there, uh, Scott, and we'll, we'll try to work our way through it. Uh, agree. It is frustrating. I know, I know we want to hear them talk. All right. [00:17:21] John: I feel, I feel this pain. I have dealt, I have dealt with this so many times. [00:17:27] Jay: It's, uh, if I can do this table, it can be tough. Go ahead. Are you there, Scott? [00:17:42] Speaker 4: Is that going to help? I've turned the camera off. [00:17:44] Jay: Perfect. Yeah. You're coming in clear. Uh, take the floor. [00:17:47] Speaker 4: Right. We're just going to do this with camera off. Okay. Um, so, uh, I'm sorry, Michael. I mean, I, I think I missed some of what you said there, but the gist I got of it was that when opinion, when I disagree with opinions, um, I'm saying they're wrong, but I'm still allowed to have my own opinions. Is that, or maybe just want to repeat what you're kind of the final point was so I can respond. [00:18:09] Speaker 3: Everybody, everybody is allowed to have their own opinion, uh, about a fact. For example, the sentinel's knees, we see videos all over the internet of the has lab sentinel's knees being faulty and not doing their job. That is a fact. The opinion part comes in as to whether or not you think that's acceptable for the company to just allow that to happen or whether or not you're dissatisfied with that. That's where the opinion part comes in. And I, I'm sorry. [00:18:39] Jay: No, no, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. Um, so let, let's, uh, let's see if, uh, we can, um, uh, get him in a phone wise. Uh, this is where I will ask John to vamp. How are you doing? [00:18:56] John: I'm doing good. You know, I, I, uh, like I said, I feel Scott's pain. We have probably recorded close to a dozen shows where I I've had the same problem. It's a major issue. living here in North Carolina. Um, but hopefully he can get on there on his phone. So this is much more of a, you know, an actual conversation, a fair and equal conversation. Um, but I totally, I totally understand where Michael is coming from. You know, um, um, I, I myself am not a fan of has lab or major companies crowdfunding. Um, there's a major difference between Hasbro crowdfunding and the full horsemen crowdfunding. The full horsemen are a very small unit. The Hasbro, they have more money than they know what to do with. They're just borrowing hours. It's yeah. Sorry. Um, for questionable material. You don't know what you're going to get at the end of the day. [00:20:09] Speaker 3: And so when you hear a pro consumer message in light of a crisis with the product that you spent $400 on, um, with no real way to get a replacement because they've all been manufactured in a batch the same way. And the cost of shipping that small mini fridge size box back to Hasbro, just to get a refund is on you. Your cost benefit analysis says I'm left with this product, but even more importantly, um, saying those words and then being accused of trying to disguise those as facts when you're not like, I'm not trying to disguise it as a fact. The fact is the knees part. The opinion part is what to be done. If anything, that's, that's problematic because what you're saying is if, if you don't have an opinion, that's always pro corporation or pro company, then you're in the wrong and we should weed out consumers that don't like it when companies do things like this. Well, guess what? That's an attempt to corporatize the user generated content space. Only listen to people who have pro company and pro corporation opinions. That's not what YouTube was originally built on. And it's what a lot of people like you and I have been fighting against for several years since Google bought YouTube. And we have made successful efforts to push back against the corporatization of YouTube. As a matter of fact, most of our community right now for the last several years, especially in the toy and pop culture collecting community has been against shadow marketers and shadow promotion and, and stealth influencers. And I hope I haven't offended anybody with the word, but corporate shill gets thrown around a lot as well. So why on earth would we suddenly turn around and want to start weeding out channels that don't tow a pro corporate line? I just, I just see that as very tone deaf to our community. All opinions need to be championed or, or given a voice, right? We shouldn't, we shouldn't throw out a bunch because they're [00:22:26] Jay: not pro toy industry, you know, um, Scott, we're, we're pressing you back in here. Um, how are you [00:22:35] Speaker 4: sounding over there? Um, hopefully it's, I mean, I'm literally sitting next, I've moved downstairs. I'm sitting next to my router. So I don't, I don't, I have no idea why this keeps throwing me off, but it looks like it's ticking in real time now. So perfect. Is that our, um, yes. [00:22:56] Jay: Do you want to finish your original thought, uh, before it got all jangly on you? [00:23:08] Speaker 3: Yeah. I love it in the comments right now. There's somebody saying, shut it down guys. This is just a retro blasting rant now. What am I supposed to do, man? What am I supposed to do? So basically retro blasting made a hit piece and Scott on Scott, because of a completely different topic. What a great dude. Look guys, I don't know if you've noticed, but we're not able to have a conversation. So I'm keeping my cool here and just trying to fill the time. You got a problem with that? [00:23:37] Jay: Take it back to your glow worm. All right. Let's, uh, I mean, Scott, are you there? All right. I think at this point, if Scott is unable to, uh, effectively, um, uh, do this debate, then it's not much of a debate at all. Um, and you know, for those that saying, uh, um, that, uh, having fail safe, we've done streams with Scott before and have not had issues. Um, and, uh, so I, I, I really don't know. Uh, the thing just to know of a coaxial cable internet connection, it does have bandwidth issues. So if a lot of people are using it at the same time, like a bunch of people are streaming something online right now in his area, it could be throttling, uh, his bandwidth to his computer. Um, so, uh, what I might suggest, unless I can get Scott to, uh, plus in, uh, on a, on a phone call, um, we might have to, uh, if you know, Michael permitting here, maybe try to pick a different date, uh, to, to do, uh, this event, [00:24:51] Speaker 3: uh, Michael, what are your thoughts there? Whatever you guys would like to do. Um, it's your show. I'm happy to do whatever you think is best. Um, I mean, I know it's disappointing. [00:25:00] Jay: I know we've, we've spent a week or so prepping for this and, and all the things that go into that, all the stresses and everything behind it. Um, I'm trying to see if I can get him on the phone. Um, and I, I have not gotten, uh, a cell phone yet. Um, regardless of what happens, [00:25:25] John: um, Michael, I'd still like to have you on as a guest just to talk toys in general, you know, [00:25:33] Jay: all right. We have toy guru on a new computer. It seems, uh, a better stream. [00:25:40] Speaker 4: Don't know. Okay. This seems like much better. Okay. So, uh, [00:25:48] Jay: let's, let's try to reset here, but at least, uh, Scott, can you hear us? [00:25:52] Speaker 4: This is, I should have, this is my wife's office. I should have just used this in the first place. [00:25:56] Jay: I'm so sorry about all that. Uh, it's okay. It happens. Uh, it's just unfortunate what happens, uh, when it's such a big, uh, conversation like the one we're having right now. Again, I, I, I do see the people putting, um, uh, the super chats in there. I will be not pressing those in again, just because, um, I want to ensure that, uh, everybody has a chance of that conversation heard. Um, and again, YouTube takes 50% of any of those. So, um, I do know all the ad revenue from the stream is going, uh, to make a wish. Um, but if you're going to give money, uh, please just give directly. It's going to be a better, uh, or a hundred percent of it's going to go to charity versus, uh, the old YouTube's, uh, taken half, uh, ads. I don't care because companies are paying for it. So if YouTube wants their cut, then so be it. Um, so that is all I will say about that. Okay. Scott, if you're here, let's, let's try to start over a little bit. Um, and let's try to get back to Michael's original question around, um, uh, opinion versus fact. Um, and I think you're, you're trying to formulate a response. Um, but Scott, uh, you have the floor. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. I think we're [00:27:08] Speaker 4: much better now. I should have just used this in the first place. Um, okay. I mean, yeah, of course, I mean, the internet is full of opinions. I mean, 90% of it is opinion. Uh, the reason I had brought up, um, and you know, the, the videos, um, in no way were specifically about one channel, even retro blasting. A lot of this was things I was hearing. My biggest source for information is my comment section and seeing what people are asking me. And I was getting a ton of people asking me questions about, about this stuff. Um, um, you know, chat rooms. It's so anyway, besides all that, there's a big difference between having an, an opinion. And I totally agree. Let's just, let me put that out there that the, the, um, the knee issue with the Sentinel is unexcusable. Um, I think that is ridiculous. You should not be paying all of that money for a toy that is not functional. Um, and there should be absolutely in my opinion, um, free refunds or rather replacements. Um, I know there's logistical issues and we can talk about why there might be, but that's a whole other YouTube video, but I do, I'm in complete agreement on that. Um, that shipping a toy like that with a production issue is ridiculous and it should never happen. Um, I think where let's go back to the, the original video that I commented on, um, when I, you know, discussed retro blasting specifically, uh, you know, um, the one that was the response in that video, Michael, you made quite a few claims that were presented as facts. Um, let me give an example here. So, um, okay. So you talk, you were talking about the rise of evil Tupac and you were mentioning that you were in a target and an employee came up to you, asked you what you were looking for and that, uh, he said that they only got two of an item in you, but you said that you assumed he was talking about the rise of evil Tupac. I mean, again, opinion, but I mean, you said that's an opinion. That's great. But what, what you further said, you said, um, Hasbro at seven minutes, 45 seconds, Hasbro knows how many people want their product and they're not making enough. Eight minutes and 57 seconds only sold 2000 figures when a hundred thousand people want one. What I want to ask you [00:29:41] Speaker 3: is how do you know this? The 2000 to a hundred thousand was a word picture. I even said, I'm throwing out numbers here to make it simple, but that's, that's a word picture. I wasn't claiming any factual information with the numbers. I was trying to give people an idea of the disparity. [00:29:59] Speaker 4: So let me respond to that then. Um, you definitely did not say this is a word picture or I'm throwing out numbers. Um, you gave the exact quote is they only sold 2000 when a hundred thousand want one. And that's see, this is my exact example is the reason that I'm putting out videos that are responding to statements you make is because the statements you're making are creating a false perception in the toy industry about how toys are made. You're stating that there's a hundred thousand people that want one. If you had said, let's assume there's a hundred thousand people and I'm going to give another example. Cause let's move on past that one. Cause maybe that is a word picture. How about this? At 11 minutes and two seconds, you said, this is a decade old problem of not working with retailers to fix distribution and they are doing nothing about it. How do you know this? [00:30:54] Speaker 3: I know it because you said it, you said, and let me find it right, uh, here. You said one moment. Oh Lord, there's too much going on here in your video regarding, uh, talking about the, uh, shelving science. Um, you said that it was too much to ask, uh, for them to solve the unique problem around toy peg purchasing patterns versus candles and everything else. And I will find that exact quote in my notes here, but you said it is too much to ask big box retail to fix this problem. So you're the one that said there's no way out of this as far as you're concerned. Well, hold on. You're talking [00:31:52] Speaker 4: about big box retail. What you're saying is the toy companies are doing nothing about this. Well, um, and that they're refusing to do anything about, I mean, a decade old problem of not working with retailers. In other words, the toy companies to fix distribution and they're doing nothing about it. That's not true at all. I mean, that's like literally the opposite of the truth. Let me give you another example. Toy companies spent the last 15 years only catering to adult collectors to the point that adults are only buyers 15 minutes, 20 seconds. What's your source for this? [00:32:27] Speaker 3: As a lifelong toy collector, watching all of these toy aisles start to look more and more like Soviet grocery stores. I mean, are you not seeing the low volumes? I find it. I find it funny sometimes when people say there's not enough shelf space for a HasLab Sentinel to sit in a retail store. I'm like, have you been in a toy aisle lately? There ain't nothing but shelf space. Empty miles of shelves. And then it's been getting worse year and on year in, forget the pandemic, forget COVID, forget all that stuff. We can visibly go into places and just look on social media and you see the photos of the empty aisles. You see people frustrated increasingly more and more. I mean, you don't have to be a rocket scientist with a, with a digital slide rule to figure out that there's a problem. [00:33:16] Speaker 4: So here's the issue though. What you just, I'm going to quote the movie that you hate. Everything you just said is wrong. And you, the empty pegs you're seeing have nothing to do with toy companies only catering to the adult collector. The adult collector is nothing to toy companies. Okay. They're less than 1%. Toy companies are about selling product to toddlers and to parents who have toddlers and are desperate for solutions. Adult collector product winds up at retail because the licensee stores, those movie studios, want that product there as a billboard for their movies. Seeing empty pegs and empty space does not, does not equal this space is available for rent for the sail barge. That's not how it works physically. So when you say, and again, I want to read your statement because I feel like you didn't address it. Toy companies spent the last 15 years only catering to adult collectors to the point that adults are their only buyers. Now I know factually from working in the toy industry that this is not true. Your statement is, you know this from collecting, but again, how do you know, like where, what were your facts behind this statement? Scott, on your May 9th video, you [00:34:38] Speaker 3: said, why do toy companies even bother making adult collectible product? Two reasons. One, publicity. It helps promote the line and ideally sales to kids and parents. Two, it's done for the licensors. It's because licensors want their product hanging in Target and Walmart. It's almost a requirement of getting a license and doing adult collector product helps toy companies acquire new licenses because licensees that they don't already, that they don't have already will see, oh, you're doing adult product and kid product. You're making it, you're making the statement that adult collector product is a prerequisite for getting your toys into retail stores in your own video. [00:35:23] Speaker 4: Well, I, that's exactly what I just said. And the reason that, you know, what we call adult collector product, which is not what it's called in the industry, it's what we call it, is a requirement because it billboards the movie. But again, let me say again, and it's your statement is toy company, or I'm sorry, the toy company spent the last 15 years only catering to adult collectors to the point that adults are their only buyers. Where is your source for that? [00:35:56] Speaker 3: I told you, I'm a lifelong toy collector. [00:35:59] Speaker 4: See, but that's an opinion. You have no fact. And that's exactly what the problem is. [00:36:04] Speaker 3: Okay. You say that's a problem, Scott. You say that we're hiding our opinions as facts. No, no, no. I'm saying that. Did you not say in this video, we have to try and strain out the people that are giving their opinions as facts because it's only going to rise the frustration level. Watch out for those types of videos. They're not healthy for us. Were these not your words? [00:36:28] Speaker 4: That's exactly my point. And I restate that sentence 100%. That's exactly what we're doing. [00:36:33] Speaker 3: Have you ever worked for Hasbro, Scott? No. Are you on nightly calls with Hasbro about their current decisions? No. Quote, August 8th, 2021, the margin on the secondary market was giant for the sale barge. And that's what unlocked the ability to do the razor crest because now Hasbro was like, oh, maybe the stuff does sell. Is that not an opinion disguised as a fact? [00:36:59] Speaker 4: Not at all. That's a fact. That's a fact. And I can tell you why. [00:37:03] Speaker 3: It's a fact. This is a fact, even though you don't work for Hasbro and you don't have their ear. [00:37:08] Speaker 4: Correct. And I can tell you exactly why. I ran Matty Collector for seven years at Mattel. Mattel and Hasbro have extremely- [00:37:16] Speaker 3: I've been a lifelong collector. Apparently that doesn't count in this argument. So show me your proof with Hasbro. Show me Hasbro's decision on this, Scott. Otherwise, don't make statements like this because these are opinions disguised as facts. [00:37:31] Speaker 4: No, it's absolutely a fact. It's a provable fact because things like- [00:37:35] Speaker 3: Did you prove it in the video? Did you show your receipts in the video? [00:37:40] Jay: Michael, let's let Scott have a response. I think you've gotten your thoughts together. Scott, you have the four. [00:37:47] Speaker 4: Items that I did at Mattel were completely comparable to things like the sail barge. Just like I worked on, say, DC Universe Classics. Would you agree that DC Universe Classics is comparable to Marvel Legends? [00:38:03] Speaker 3: I mean, I bought three DC Universe. I've bought 30- [00:38:07] Speaker 4: No, no, no. I'm not asking you how many you've bought. I'm just saying as a collector yourself- [00:38:11] Speaker 3: I was being sarcastic. But yes, it's a six-inch scale superhero figure line. Yes. [00:38:17] Speaker 4: Okay, fair enough. So therefore, vis-a-vis, would you say that my experience working on DC Universe Classic would allow me to make a statement about Marvel Legends? That they're similar as far as price point, design, engineering, the way the factory makes that. Would you say that I'm qualified to make a statement about Marvel Legends from working on DCU Classics? [00:38:43] Speaker 3: You left Matty in 2014. You haven't been in the big toy industry in seven years. So no, I wouldn't say you're qualified at this stage to make that assessment. [00:38:54] Speaker 4: Okay, so that'll completely disagree with you, Juan, because- [00:38:58] Speaker 3: I'm sure you will, but it doesn't change where I'm coming from. You asked my opinion. [00:39:02] Speaker 4: So, okay. So that's right there. That's really interesting because I worked on a toy. So that is completely- the only difference is one is owned by Marvel, one is owned by DC or Disney, AT&T, however you want to put it. They're the same physical toy. They're just a different character. It's not like I worked on Thomas the Train and I'm commenting on, you know, Bakugan or something. So what I'm saying is, I have experience working on six inch superhero toys sold at mass retail. Would you agree on that? [00:39:38] Speaker 3: I mean, okay. [00:39:39] Speaker 4: Okay. Okay. That's right. That's all I'm saying. So therefore, if I have experience working on six inch action figures of superheroes that are sold at mass retail, therefore, I have facts about how they're made, how they're produced, the margins, et cetera. Would you say that? [00:40:00] Speaker 3: As of 2014, but not now. [00:40:05] Speaker 4: Fair enough that there have been some price changes, but if you take the base figure, so if you're just saying, this is a Marvel legend, this is a DCU classic, are they virtually the same product? [00:40:20] Speaker 3: I mean, I don't display, I don't think they're the same product, but I mean, scale wise and superhero wise, sure. If you really want to do it one to one, all right, fine. If you want to dial it down to a corporate widget, then yeah, one unit, one unit, fine. [00:40:40] Speaker 4: Well, I do. That's exactly, there you go. Bingo. That's exactly the point is they are widgets and we tend to- [00:40:47] Speaker 3: They're widgets to corporate people. [00:40:48] Speaker 4: Right. Yes, exactly. [00:40:50] Speaker 3: But you say that the only way for the toy industry to succeed is to think emotionally whatever you're doing. You said that on August 8th. You even said the toy industry has got to stop thinking about this stuff in those terms. And yet here you are championing those terms right now. [00:41:06] Speaker 4: I'm not saying it wouldn't benefit them to. When they have, it has benefited, but you're changing the subject. I'm trying to establish the fact, the original question that you proposed to me was that I don't have the right to comment on Hasbro's business structure because I have no knowledge of it. What I'm saying is, and we can move on from this subject, that I've worked on comparable product. Yes, but I have not worked for Hasbro. [00:41:37] Speaker 3: Then you don't have a factual source for how they came to their decision. [00:41:40] Speaker 4: But I've worked on comparable product. [00:41:43] Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. You cannot prove what you're saying. Therefore, it's an opinion because you have not worked at that company. [00:41:50] Speaker 4: I'll disagree with you on that. I worked at a comparable company on comparable product. [00:41:55] Speaker 3: I worked at corporate UPS sitting right next to the CEO for seven years, all right? And you could probably comment on FedEx. But I can't comment on FedEx's business model. [00:42:06] Speaker 4: Mattel's main consultant is a former Hasbro employee that they pay him hundreds of thousands of dollars. His name is Tom. All right. Let me ask you a question. 16 minutes, 58 seconds. Same video. You said toy company's policy is to never take responsibility and always blame others. Where do you get this from? [00:42:35] Speaker 3: Once again, Scott, you on He-Man.org. January 2nd, 2017. What I am trying to say is for the love of more toys, try to be more positive in the future to Super7 or anyone else. Positivity, people. Just trying to remind everyone the importance of staying positive and how negativity can hurt things. June 5th, 2016. He-Man.org. Toy Guru says, "It's very hard to get people to work on green light or give resources to a line that people complain about. Even if the complaining is done through the lenses of love, the fans that complain the loudest often put the nails in the coffin. [00:43:19] Speaker 4: So I will absolutely agree with you that there is some blame when fans go overboard in their complaining and sending death threats to the brand manager. I agree with you on that." But what you're saying here, and again, their policy is to never take responsibility and always blame others. Let me read you two other things. So the New York Post, August 11th, 2021. Mattel, "Our intention to represent the Asian community with the skateboarder doll fell short and we receive and recognize the feedback and offer an apology." Hasbro, "August 5th, 2020, 2:01 p.m. on their Twitter account. "Hi, Eddie. GI Joe Cobra Island is available in Target stores now and available online 8/14/2020. We sincerely apologize for the confusion." So let me read your statement again. Toy company's policy is to never take responsibility and always blame others. I'm not saying that when fans go overboard and send death threats to the brand managers that they do harm to their line. But I'm also not saying that toy companies don't take responsibility. Of course they do. Their goal is to sell product. You know, more importantly, you make statements that, you know, companies like Mattel, you know, all they're doing is sitting on money that what they found at 10 minutes, 25 seconds on your Sentinel video, what they, Hasbro, found is a way to get your money on a monthly or yearly basis. Isn't that what companies are supposed to be doing? If you're a stockholder in a company, you're excited that they've found a way to get your money. They're trying to get your money. Of course they are. They're not bad guys for trying to get your money. Yes, they are. [00:45:18] Speaker 3: They're bad guys for trying to get your money on a monthly cadence. [00:45:22] Speaker 4: Not at all. That's a brilliant move from a corporate company. It's a brilliant move in your opinion, Scott. [00:45:28] Speaker 3: No. That's not a fact. [00:45:29] Speaker 4: No, it is not a fact. That is a hundred percent a fact of business. It's business. Whoa. [00:45:34] Jay: Let's keep the opinions versus facts out of it. Because I think we're just, you two are not going to agree, which is, which is fine. But I do want to let Michael respond to the idea that Scott just presented. So please, Michael, you have the floor. [00:45:47] Speaker 3: We have to establish what a fact is versus an opinion, Jay, because otherwise he's going to keep saying that his opinions about how great corporate things are, like getting IVs into people's bank accounts are facts when that's an opinion. [00:46:00] Jay: Let's debate the actual idea of it, right? Like the ethical nature of what he presented on. It's okay to take money every single month. We don't have to debate whether one is fact or the other. But you can share your thoughts on why you think that is wrong. And that might be more productive. So we're not getting into who's factual versus opinion. Because I think there's opinions on both sides of this for both of you. But Michael, I do want to give you the floor to respond to what he said about. [00:46:27] Speaker 3: Because as a lifelong toy collector, because as a lifelong toy collector, it never used to be the case that I had to pay a monthly fee to browse or have a subscription to an online site to try and get things before they sold out. I would just go to the store and flip through the pegs and go from shop to shop and toy hunt. I wouldn't have to pay a monthly fee to a Hasbro pulse or a Maddie collector or whatever it is, or a Mattel Creations membership to have access. That right there is predatory, in my opinion. In his opinion, it's a great thing. My opinion, it's predatory. [00:47:05] Speaker 4: I'm not saying it isn't predatory. What I'm saying is... [00:47:09] Speaker 3: So you're not saying it's not predatory. You're agreeing it's predatory. [00:47:13] Speaker 4: Well, from a certain point of view. [00:47:18] Speaker 3: You're cool with that? [00:47:19] Speaker 4: Of course I'm cool with that. Wow. Of course I am. That's business 101. That's how corporate companies work. Companies have stockholders that put equity into those companies. I'm very aware. [00:47:32] Speaker 3: Like I said, I worked for a Fortune 50 company by the CEO for a long while. [00:47:36] Speaker 4: So why shouldn't a company do everything it can to increase profit? [00:47:41] Speaker 3: A company can try to do everything it wants. But at some point, the consumer's will also comes into play. And that's since the beginning of the world. Yes. Bingo. [00:47:50] Speaker 4: Bingo. You're not being forced to do this. No one is holding a gun up to your head and saying you have to do this. They're presenting this as an option. [00:47:59] Speaker 3: Scott, but what you say with every video you make is that this is the best way to do things. And we should be grateful and support the way they do things and not expect anything to change. If you were in charge of industry, we'd still have a buggy whip and carriage industry right now. Because everything would just be the same. [00:48:16] Speaker 4: All right. Well, if you were in charge, what you say that you would directly do is toy companies need to get out of big box stores. This is 15 minutes, 56 seconds. They said that these are things only collected by adults. If toy companies didn't sell to big box stores, there would be no toys. There is no one in the world with a large enough ordering capability to support toy lines except for big box stores. [00:48:47] Speaker 3: Yes. So why are they not showing up in proper quantities in toy stores? Why are there all these excuses being made by people like you that big box retail can't carry that item? It will never have the space for that item. That item will never sell at retail. I've got all the quotes right here from you. You're talking out of two sides of your mouth. You're saying we need big box retail. But at the same time, you help champion online subscription toys that don't go to big box retail, further strangling them of getting said inventory. [00:49:13] Speaker 4: That's because in that model, what we're doing, it's the same exact model. So the model, the way toy companies work is they pre-sell their items to a customer. 90% of the time, that customer is a retailer like Walmart or Target or RIP Toys R Us. So at Toy Fair, which happens in Dallas in October, or Mattel and Hasbro have their own private toy fairs in Providence and El Segundo, the toy companies will come. I'm sorry, the retailers will come and the toy companies will present their wares. They'll say, okay, here is the next year's worth of product line. And they'll show usually one wave representing a full year of product. Now, with something like Matty Collector or what Hans Lab, well, more so with Matty Collector with the subscription model, what we were doing was finding a way to do a deeper character selection because it wasn't dependent on retailers pre-buying it. It was dependent directly on customers. The customers were just replacing the retailers within that model. So, yes, if you could sell toys directly to customers without a retailer, that's great. But without that secondary sort of out-of-the-box thinking model, if you just pulled toys from big box stores, there's no one to pick up the quota. The only option is to put it directly on the fans and to say, okay, fans, please pre-order. [00:50:44] Speaker 3: That's what you did with Matty Collector and it didn't stop toys in big box stores. That's my point, man. [00:50:51] Speaker 4: What was sold on Matty Collector wasn't sold in retail because retail didn't want it. It was product that we couldn't sell at retail, that we pitched to retail that retail said no to. [00:51:00] Jay: I do want to pause and clarify there because I do think it's an important topic to talk about in terms, I believe, Michael, you brought up in your video on Scott saying He-Man and Ghostbusters would have failed at retail and that was the side of it. But let's focus on this part of the topic. Michael, do you want to expand upon that on? And then we'll give Scott the floor to reply. [00:51:23] Speaker 3: What part specifically did you want me to expound on? [00:51:27] Jay: This actual concept of direct to consumer is the only way for these things to exist versus these could be successful at retail. [00:51:37] Speaker 3: Well, yeah, what I was saying in that video is that the current state, the current deterioration of successful distribution, the more frustrating it gets year by year for collectors to go to big box retail to get adult collectible toys, to get these Marvel Legends and Black Series and Masters of the Universe Origins and Ghostbusters Plasma Series and all these things. People are so frustrated between bad distribution and the scalping that when you look at it, you go, well, why aren't they just allocating all of their volume to Big Bad Toy Store Entertainment Earth and other online retailers so that you eliminate the scalping and people can just pre-order? That's what I'm saying. If we're not going to make the retail part better, if the toy companies aren't going to get together with big box retail and sort it out and not actually try and fix the problem of distribution, of peg sales, of this and that, then we might as well just make sure that it gets to online retail so that the scalpers can be eliminated from the headache, right? Like Big Bad Toy Store Entertainment Earth and a few others, Toy Inc and all those ones just, you know, take the volume and then everybody gets to pre-order their thing and we move forward. That was what I was getting across was that if they're not going to make it better and it's just going to keep getting worse, then we might as well fast forward and just put everything online so that we... That's my point. Like, yeah, of course, anything that's like targeted for a kid, like a toddler thing or a glow worm or whatever will probably still be in a toy store. But an adult collectible figure line, I don't see any reason at this point given the lack of support that the big box retailers have, the lack of proper distribution, I don't see any reason for them to stick around in those stores. It's only frustrating the consumer exponentially. [00:53:32] Speaker 4: Okay. I'd love to respond. So, boy, let's tackle that a couple of ways. One, I've worked for these online companies. I worked for Entertainment Earth for quite a while. And Big Bad Toy Store, Entertainment Earth, Dorkside Toys, they are so infinitely smaller than even, you know, Target is tiny compared to Walmart. Big Bad Toy Store, Entertainment, if you added them all together, I actually did a video about this recently and I was, you know, calling them like, you know, if they were going to form a Voltron of online toy stores and all come together to take the quota, they can't. They can't handle that much quota. No one but big box toy stores can. The only options you have are, sorry, the headsets keep falling out, is for either A, a store that can order a high enough MOQ, minimum order quantity, like a Walmart or a Target or what was Toys R Us, or to bypass retail and use either a subscription or a pre-sale process, like what HasLab does, or Super 7 with things like the Thunder Tank, because it's the same model. You're just replacing the retailer with the customer, saying that you should just shift all of this onto Entertainment Earth and Big Bad Toy Store because they could be, they should just be able to naturally step up and absorb the quotas that Walmart has. So if like Walmart suddenly couldn't order what we call adult collector product, that naturally the demand should still exist, so Big Bad Toy Store and Entertainment Earth should obviously just be able to absorb higher quotas. That's just factually not true. And that's really what the issue is, is when I say you're presenting opinion as facts, that's a perfect example, because you stating that, oh, they could just do that, but they can't factually. Did Amazon not start in a garage? I don't know. It started in a garage. [00:55:30] Speaker 3: Okay. What does that have to do with- And then they get bigger as demand grows. You're telling me that in no reality that you foresee that Entertainment Earth, Big Bad Toy Store, Toy K or Toy Inc or whatever it's called, or a number of other online retailers, couldn't from that infusion of desired volume, grow to accommodate those volumes when the business model changed. Even though it's happened a million times in other industries over the course of modern [00:55:56] Speaker 4: civilization. So you're telling me there's no way- You have a misunderstanding of how Entertainment Earth works. The number of customers they have- [00:56:05] Jay: I will ask Scott, just in terms of, could, I think maybe answering Michael's question directly, could Entertainment Earth a la Amazon scale up to the level of Amazon and just kind of be able to handle [00:56:17] Speaker 4: that kind of volume? No. I guess explain why. So I work for Entertainment Earth and I know this as a fact. This is not- Past tense. Right, but- Yeah, but what I'm saying is you don't know what [00:56:31] Speaker 3: they're willing to do. I mean, depending on who's leading the company- Let's just say, let's just say [00:56:36] Jay: then that he doesn't work there now, but he was there. So from his experience when he was there, [00:56:39] Speaker 4: let's let Scott explain- Yeah, things change. Maybe they woke up today and said, "Hey, we're going to order 100% of all of Marvel Legends' product going forward." Maybe they said that yesterday. You're right. I don't know. I don't work there right now. But from my experience from working for an online toy distributor, the bulk of their sales are not to you and me. That's their public face. And it does create that illusion. Things like their catalogs, et cetera, creates the- I don't want to call it an illusion, but it creates the perception that you and I are their biggest customers. In reality, Entertainment Earth doesn't cater to you and I. Entertainment Earth is a company that exists to supply smaller toy stores with product that can't afford Mattel and Hasbro's minimum order quantities. 95 plus percent of their business is done this way. They do sell directly to customers. Yes, you can go on their website right now and order whatever and it'll show up for you. That's such a tiny portion of their business. And that's why they're not in a position to grow because that's not the business they're in. The same with Big Bad Toy Store. I understand why we have the perception that they're, you know, like an Amazon where, you know, they're there for the single customer to shop, [00:58:03] Speaker 3: but that's enough. I did not say I thought they were an Amazon. I said like any business, they can grow based on increased demand and customer demand precipitates growth of businesses that are [00:58:15] Speaker 4: desired. And in hypothetical happy land, they could maybe. Don't patronize me, Scott. But that's not what's going to happen. And factually, that's not what their business model is. You tend to always ignore business models and look at everything from the perception of me, the adult collector, and it should go the way I want it to go, not the way a business wants to run itself. Businesses have the right to run themselves however they want. Yes, and I've been critical of how they want to run themselves. Yes, and you have every right to do that. I love when you're critical of that. [00:58:46] Speaker 3: You should be critical of that. No, you don't. No, you don't. You just told your audience that [00:58:49] Speaker 4: they need to siphon me out. No. And channels like me. No, no, no, no. Let me finish my sentence. It's wonderful when you're critical, when you present it as, this is my opinion. What the problem is, and the reason that I say, and I wasn't saying they should siphon you out. I did not say that. I absolutely did not say they should siphon retroblasting out. You know who you were roping into that statement. Oh, another opinion. See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You are [00:59:23] Speaker 3: really didn't work for Hasbro and know how they decide on things. Okay, fine. Let's try to tie a bow on [00:59:30] Jay: this aspect of the conversation. Final statements on just in terms of the toy industry as it is now. Michael, I will give you the floor before we move on to another topic as we are, we're going to run [00:59:43] Speaker 4: out of time. Now, let's let Scott have his statement. Okay. Big box toy stores are, as far as a toy department, are there for one purpose and one purpose only. To provide a convenience for parents shopping for birthday gifts for their child's friend. The most, uh, reoccurring time when an adult goes to the toy aisle outside of, you know, you and me who go there every day. But for 99% of the adults in America, the most common reason they go to the toy aisle is to buy a gift for their child's classroom friend, because they have 30 kids in their class or, you know, ballet class or karate, whatever, you know, after school activity. So let's say your child has 30 birthday parties to go to. That means that 30 times a year, you need to buy a gift for one of your child's friends. That's why the toy aisle exists. It's a convenience for those parents. It's also there for major IP holders to billboard their movies. Assuming that the toy aisle is there to cater to adult collectors is part of the fallacy that we all, you know, we love, we have, we're so emotionally attached to our toys. I am too. I'm not saying I am an adult collector, but I think it's very important to separate the fact that we're so much smaller than we think because the emotional connection we have creates this perception that the toy aisles are for us. Shipping should be done the way we want it to ship. You know, everything should be done to cater to us. And at the end of the day, factually, that's just not true. [01:01:30] Jay: Michael, I'll let you have a response to that as the final thoughts on this subject. [01:01:37] Speaker 3: My only thought really is that I'm hearing a lot of appeal to authority and I'm hearing a lot of trust to me because I used to be somebody, but I'm not really seeing proof. I'm just hearing a lot of opposing opinions about things. Yeah, sure. He's got some structural knowledge, but it doesn't mean it necessarily applies or would even apply in the future if other businesses stepped up and actually tried to take active roles in solving specific problems. What I'm hearing are two opposing sets of opinions, myself versus his, on facts about the toy collecting landscape. But I'm not seeing anything where it's like, oh, yeah, these are absolute facts coming from Scott. What I'm seeing is, I'm seeing Scott use his appeal of authority fallacy to disguise his opinions as facts. And that's the [01:02:33] Jay: last word I'll say on that. All right. So there are other topics that we did that were agreed upon to discuss today. But before we get into those, Scott, you did say you wanted to wish, I think, your daughter a good night. Would you like a minute to do that? I think I may have missed that. That's all right. Appreciate that. For that? Go ahead, please. What were we going to say? No? Okay. All right. So let's go on to the next topic. I think we kind of covered one in four. So we'll just go into the middle of this debate sandwich. And we're going to talk about the creation of Sky High and kind of credit to maybe customizers or people outside the toy industry that create something and then a company corporation basically using that idea. It was part of your video, Michael. And I will let you kind of ask this question to Scott. And Scott, I will give you a response to that question and we'll kind of talk [01:03:34] Speaker 3: about that. Does that sound okay? Wonderful. It was just simply the simple story is that Joe Amato said that he and you had spoken several years back when there was some ironing out that needed to happen about the origin of the name Sky High. You had told him that you thought it was just something that was kind of generated on message boards by fans collectively. And he had told me that you had, he had told you that it was his idea. And then you said, well, at the first opportunity, I'll make sure that that's, that's clear. That was what I was told. I don't really have an emotional investment in this particular topic, but I wanted to address it. So. Everything you said is completely true. That's [01:04:23] Speaker 4: absolutely true. Um, when we did Sky High and for reference, people have no idea who we're talking about. Um, Sky High, the action figure, which was put out for Masters of the Universe classic. Oh, you're getting him from your shelf. That's so, there you go. All right. So Sky High is that guy, that dude riding on the sky sled there. And, uh, or as I call the flying jet ski. So he was a character that, that appeared on a Masters of the Universe cross-cell poster in the eighties, uh, in flying the Wind Raider, uh, which was weird because he like, they didn't put in, you know, Ram Man or Teal or some other existing character. They just, uh, George who drew the, who, uh, to Georgia. Either way, I can't remember the top of my head exactly who, uh, the artist. Um, but he just like popped in this weird helmeted character. And so for years, fans were like, who is that? Who is that dude flying the Wind Raider? Part of what Masters of the Universe classics was all about. And I have a feeling we'll get into this in the next topic was putting out the most number of characters possible. That's what the storyline was about, was justifying the most number of characters possible, not telling like the greatest story, just one that would, uh, justify the greatest number of toys we could put out and involve the greatest number of characters. So that's exactly why we wanted Sky High in there because that it was an excuse to sell a toy of a character fans, you know, have been talking about. So when the, when we did him as an action figure, I named him Sky High because that's what people were calling them online. At the time I had no idea where the name came from. Years later, Joe had, I know Joe, I've been him many times at conventions and he said, Hey, you know, I was actually the one who came up with that name. I was like, Oh, that's awesome. That's so cool. When I do the video on Sky High and, you know, Michael, I don't know how familiar you are with my channel, but one of the playlists I have is called the director's commentary where I'm going figure by figure in the Motu classics line and doing sort of an in-depth like behind the scenes director's commentary like we used to have on DVDs about the making of that figure. I'm going in chronological order. I started with King Grayskull, uh, who I just recorded, I think like side chop or Rattler recently. I'm literally going in release order. So Sky High probably won't come up for about, uh, but we still have to, I think it came out 14 or 13. I'd have to look, but we're just at the end of 2012. As far as the chronological order, when I get to the Sky High figure, I'm a thousand percent going to have Joe on the show. We've already talked about this and he could, we could talk. I mean, yeah, he definitely came up with the name. It's awesome. Um, the only reason I haven't done it yet is because I'm going in chronological order and doing a video, just talking about Joe creating the name. Maybe I'm wrong, but that doesn't feel like enough content for a video. So the idea was to take that nugget of information and put it in the director's commentary where we're talking, we're doing like, you know, a 15 minute video about this character, just doing a video where I say, hi, I'm Toy Guru. Hey guys, Joe Amato created the name Sky High. Thanks for watching. Okay. Well, that's like not a video. [01:07:26] Speaker 3: I think the question was more about whether or not there was an opportunity to credit him during the [01:07:31] Speaker 4: actual production of the figure. I didn't know at that point. If I knew, I would have. I didn't learn that until after the fact. I totally would have. Fair enough. [01:07:42] Jay: Yeah. Um, and then just kind of following up in there a little bit. I know copycat became a kind of a bigger thing. I know, uh, Michael, you mentioned, uh, pixel Dan and Val as well. Do you, do you want to expand upon your reason for including that as part of this discussion as well? Or, [01:07:56] Speaker 3: or that was simply because that was simply because when I was talking to Joe Amato, he said that it had happened to him again. That doesn't really have anything to do with, with Scott. So I don't have any problem omitting that from this discussion. So yeah, I didn't work [01:08:09] Jay: on that toy. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Um, all right. Uh, do we feel like we've discussed all we want to talk about on this front? Sure. Okay. Um, so let's move into, uh, this next subject, the creation. Oh, not, sorry. My bad. The specter of spector, uh, another, uh, uh, you know, uh, for all the things we may have loved about mode two classics. I think the one, uh, and I'm sure you know this, Scott, a lot of, uh, divisiveness around specter, uh, being in the line. It was a part of, uh, Michael's video as well. Um, and, uh, for you, I will start, uh, um, my, uh, Scott, um, on your thoughts that the inclusion of a character you created, uh, is that ethical when you are the one [01:09:01] Speaker 4: running the toy line? Well, um, I think it's important to look at the situation. Um, it's not like I forced my character into the line against anyone's will. If you, again, you know, Mike, I don't know how familiar you are with my, my, uh, channel, but I've done multiple videos on specter and on the 30th anniversary line. I even did one, which you may want to check out called conspiracy theories of Maddie collector where I, uh, this was almost a year ago. I put this one out and I completely addressed exactly what you brought up. So let me give, let me explain the situation. When we had the 30th anniversary of masters, the universe in 2012, 2012, obviously, cause that's the year I'm doing now. Um, management said that they wanted us to do a special six figure set to celebrate it. Michael brought up in his video. Well, why don't you just reissue like the best of figures like trap jaw? Um, the reason you can't do that is because of MOQ, a certain amount of people already own the figure. And if you produce the MOQ, let's just call it 10,000. [01:10:09] Jay: If you, uh, explain that acronym, what's MOQ. Oh, sorry. MOQ is minimum order quantity. So a vendor, [01:10:17] Speaker 4: a factory, when you place an order requires you to order a certain amount or they won't make it. Or if you go under that, they're going to charge you a high premium, which Maddie collector was already doing. We were way under MOQ for the vendor. So just for a round number, let's say that the minimum order quantity MOQ is 10,000 units. So if we were going to use the 30th anniversary, um, Michael, as you suggested to reissue trap jaw or T law or a popular character, the problem with that is that a certain amount of the population already owns the character. And every time that we reissued something, we wound up getting stuck with a lot of it because, you know, it's, it's like a Venn diagram, right? Where, you know, so here's your MOQ diet. Oh, does that show up? So only this section in the middle is now your customer and, or, you know, it's the overlap. So that's, you know, like the ghost, uh, PKB, there's a perfect example. There was so much demand and talk online for us to reissue it. And then we got stuck with it. We could, we had to like discount it out. All right. So that's the reason you can't reissue figures. It's very tough because of the MOQ and because a portion of the population already owns that figure. It's better to try to overproduce above the MOQ to get closer to what the actual demand is. But that's hard because some figures sell better than us. We produced more trap jaws than we did mighty specters, for example, because we knew there'd be more people who wanted him, but obviously there were more above and beyond that, but not necessarily enough to go to the, to hit the MOQ. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. Oh, okay. Um, just want to make sure I explain that. Well, that wasn't necessarily you, Michael, that was to kind of everybody. All right. So let's go back to Spectre and the six figure series. So we proposed several things to upper management of how we could celebrate the history of Motu. We proposed doing prototype figures. We proposed doing, you know, spinoff figures, even things like sun man and black star. What they really liked of like the five things that we proposed was doing original characters that had never been in the line before, because that celebrated the emotional connection that kids had to the brand back in the eighties, that a lot of them discovered characters first as toys. It's a very unique emotional connection. And I'm really, I love emotional connections with toys. So we presented, as I said, like five different possibilities of themes for this special six figure series. The one that management said we should go with was original characters. And I said, great. What I'd like to do is reach out to the original creators of He-Man. You know, there's a bunch of them. They all fight on Netflix about who did it and see if they'll each create an original character. Well, I tried that. None of them would do it. So my backup was, okay, well, what if I reach out to popular comic book writers and artists like people, you know, big in pop culture that are also fans of He-Man. I called everybody I knew and everyone said no, except Jeff Johns. So I presented an update to management of what I'd done that I, you know, called all these people. I'd called all these comic book artists and they said, okay, you're wasting your time. Would you stop doing this? Just give one of the slots to the four horsemen. The fans know you, the fans know Terry done. And I was like, okay, so you want me to have one of the slots? And they're like, yeah, the fans know who you are. You're a He-Man celebrity. Why not? That's how I got the slot. It was assigned to me because my first two plans fell through to have He-Man creators do it or celebrities. So it wound up being, we had the winner of the vintage critic figure contest was slot one. We had the four horsemen do one, Jeff Johns do one, me do one, Terry, who was the designer do one. And then the winner of the new band contest was the bookend. So those were your six figures. So that's how I wound up with a slot. It wasn't like I, you know, some mischievous evil plan where I was like, how can I get my character into the line? It just, and I will say my two biggest regrets on it are when I did Lieutenant Spector, when I got to be a face on the Royal Guard, that was supposed to be like my only one little Easter egg. I would have never named that character Lieutenant Spector if I knew I was going to be doing a mighty Spector because I wanted to do mighty Spector as my character. I felt that it would be weird having a Lieutenant Spector and a mighty Spector in the brand. So I'm like, okay, well, I'll just make them the same person. I'll say the guard eventually, you know, became mighty Spector. Why not? My other big regret is that I called him the master of time travel. I did that because I was trying to pay homage to the way He-Man characters are like, you know, master of arms or master of beasts or master of magic, whatever. So I was trying to play into that. And I said this multiple times on my channel on several videos. What I wish I did was call him heroic time traveling spy. Yes, he has access to time travel, but it's not, he can't do anything he wants with it. He was never meant to be like a Dalek Mackinac character. He was never meant to replace He-Man. He's a minor character. Yes. Like he's technically has my face because of the whole Lieutenant Spector thing, but I would have never done that. I don't, I never thought of him as having my face as a kid. It's just, again, the way it wound up. Yeah. It was just sort of a happy coincidence, call it. Um, so yeah, he was just meant to be a fun, cool character who happened to have a time traveling suit that he was allowed to use by the leave of the King of Eternia, which he had to then give back when he was done with the mission. And the reason he was entrusted with this suit is because he was a loyal, royal guard. He'd proved his loyalty. So the King of Eternia said, okay, I trust you with the, with the power suit or the time travel suit to go on very specific missions that aren't going to interrupt the time stream, but are necessary for, you know, the sake of Eternia or whatever. He didn't make the decisions of what missions he goes on. The King does. So he's the King's agent. He's the King says, I need you to go to this time period and get this magic relic because I needed to bake cookies. Great. You've assigned me the mission to King. I'm going to go do that. So the idea that he's this, like all powerful master of time, like Kang is, I've, I've, again, I've spelled this out in multiple videos. It's not true. Um, I get how that perception came again. And that's why my biggest regret is that I call them the heroic master of time travel, which was only in cadence with the, you know, naming of Motu characters from the eighties. So I wish I hadn't done that, but hopefully I've explained that enough in videos and interviews over the years. And that's how he came to be. Um, it was not me writing myself into the brand. Like I said, I would have never had my face on the Royal guard or name that Royal guard, Lieutenant Spector. If I knew this was happening, um, I would have just been the Royal guard and I could have named him Lieutenant, you know, Scott or something or Lieutenant Bob or whatever. And he just, I mean, every Hasbro employee in the eighties was a GI Joe figure. You know, Jesse Falcon has been an elf and Lord of the rings. David Vaughn or was war machine, corn boy, uh, and Eric from the four horsemen have both been in multiple toy lines, have, uh, toy creators are constantly in toy lines. That happens all the time. So that's not something unique to me. Um, you know, it was, I was running masters, the universe classics in my spare time on top of my day job. So getting to be a Royal guard was like a cool thing and like, Hey, and then when a figure was assigned to me, I was like, Hey, cool too. [01:18:07] Jay: So that's the story and sticking to it. Uh, I appreciate the, uh, in-depth story there. Um, I'm going to support him as here. We should have gotten a pixel Dan classics figure. Uh, I think that's a fair statement there. Uh, Michael, uh, I want, it was a long response. I know a lot of time was given to Scott here. Um, I want to make sure you have a equally amount of time to respond. [01:18:32] Speaker 3: Um, so you have the four. They're just, there's just a marked difference between some toy designers using their faces as templates for other characters versus the person who wrote all of the mini comics mythology for a brand at the same time as they're getting their character into the brand. Um, that is a marked leap in difference of influence. There's a big leap there. Um, then on top of that, I am just curious to find out from Scott, how your face did get on an Eternian guard. [01:19:05] Speaker 4: Well, let me address the first part first. And then the second part, uh, the continuity, the mini comics, the bios were only written as a way of justifying the greatest number of toys. It was not, I mean, almost nobody like, you know, there was no content. There was no movie. There was no cartoon show. There was no mainstream comic. There were eight mini comics over the course of seven years packed in with figures and bios. You know, it was not a be all end all He-Man continuity. It was literally a He-Man continuity built to justify selling as many toys as possible. So we, you know, we would include characters like sky high and strobo and, you know, the white dress version of the sorceress, anything we could just to justify doing the greatest number of toys. That's all it was. Um, it was not, you know, rewriting He-Man history. There was no mainstream story awareness. You had to be a subscriber, which you were, you said you were not to even be aware that there was a story, which, you know, it wasn't, it was basically just 2000X expanded a little bit with more characters. Um, so how I got on the Royal Guard was, uh, I was joking around with the horsemen. I think it was New York Toy Fair that it would be cool if we were all Royal Guards that they should do all four, like, you know, the horsemen and me and Bill and all of us. They didn't want to do it. They said, no, no, no. We've already been toys because they have multiple times in several spawn toys. Um, and then the figure showed up with my head and I was like, oh my God, they actually did that. That's really funny. Um, I offered to have Terry be ahead, Bill be ahead and the horsemen and they all turned it down. So that's the story. [01:20:55] Speaker 3: So why is there, and I'm not blaming you for this. I'm just asking. So I'm just trying to paint a landscape. All right. Why is there this prevailing idea that because your story that you just told lines up with what you said on August 2010 on the foosh, which is that, you know, you said, Hey guys, what would you think if I was the white guy soldier? And they were like, Oh, totally. Are you kidding? Which lines up with what you've just told us. So why is there this in your estimation, this other story out there that you've told people, and I'm not saying I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm simply saying it's out there, which is that people, some people seem to believe that you've since revised this story to say that the four horsemen surprised you with it and you had nothing to do with the face getting on the attorney and guard. You've clearly been upfront about it and it lines up with [01:21:45] Speaker 4: the story here. Where'd that other story come from? Like I said, you know, there's a video I did on my channel called busting the myths of Matty Collector. There were so many conspiracy theories out there. That was just one of them. You know, I couldn't tell you where, I mean, there were so many, you know, people were making up stories like we were purposely trying to keep certain fan sites uninvolved or that we were, you know, I mean, all sorts of crazy stuff that just, you know, this whole line, Motu Classics and Matty Collector was run on like Jawa spit and thumbtacks. Like it was done in my spare time on top of my day job, which was running DCU Classics. And then later to the Green Lantern movie. That was like, if you went into the Mattel computer system and looked up Scott Knight like, what's his job? That's what it would say it was. Matty Collector was never an official job on the books, which is why when I left the company, it went away because like, if somebody quits a job at Mattel, like a Barbie brand manager, it instantly sends a red flag for Mattel to hire a new Barbie brand manager. When I left, they replaced, well, I was working on Hot Wheels Star Wars at the time when I left. So they replaced the brand manager for Hot Wheels Star Wars, but they didn't replace the brand manager for Matty Collector because it was never a job in the first place. It was just something I was willing to do. So I got it. Sorry. I think I'm going in circles, but it's basically because it was run on such, you know, just doing this as best we can with what we have, it just led to like crazy stories and people like thinking things were happening that weren't. [01:23:24] Speaker 3: Well, my last question on that has nothing to do directly with the last question, but it is, it is a question since you guys were trying to get the widest number of characters out there possible in the years the line was running. It is, it is a big question mark, at least for me as somebody who watched the Filmation cartoon over and over again. Wasn't the slot that Mighty Spector took up, couldn't that have been Malektha, the archaeologist that just kind of got passed over even though he was in multiple episodes, you know, like what was the aversion to doing Malektha at any point in this line? [01:24:04] Speaker 4: I'm just curious. Great question. He was on the master list to get to. We didn't get rights to do Filmation figures until about halfway through the line. So the first half, the first few years, there were no Filmation characters. I think if we had the rights from day one, we would have gotten to a lot more. He was on the list for 2017. But like I said, when I left, nobody took it over and the brand fell apart. The reason that he couldn't have been in the slot that Mighty Spector was in is going back to my previous answer. The six figure subset that was not part of the main subscription that you had, it was a separate sub that Spector was part of, was part of a set of figures that, as I said, were presented to management as a theme. Multiple themes were presented. Prototype figures, wacky figures, you know, [01:24:57] Jay: doing things like Black Star and Sun Man. I think we had a breakdown of why that was done. So, but I guess the main question of why was that character not included maybe at any point? I think [01:25:04] Speaker 4: we get why it wasn't in the… Yeah, no, we were going to get to him. We just didn't in time. I mean, he couldn't have, yeah, so he couldn't have been in that slot because he didn't fit. The way I've explained it online is, it's like a trivial pursuit board, right? Where each of the squares has a theme, like sports, you know, TV, history, et cetera. The slots for the 30th anniversary were for original characters. Malaktha did not fit that slot. So, you couldn't have just slotted him in instead of Mighty Spector. If you took Mighty Spector out, it would have had to be an original character created by ideally someone like Roger Sweet or Mark Taylor, which I tried really hard to do, but they all turned it down. So, that's why Malaktha couldn't be in that slot. Why he wasn't in the line later on? Because the 2017 line never happened because the line stopped. So, if it kept going, he would have been in it. [01:26:08] Jay: All right. I'm taken by Michael's pause. I think we're good on that topic. Is that correct? [01:26:14] Speaker 3: Yes. Yep. [01:26:16] Jay: That means that we have covered the agreed upon topics. We're also coming up to the 90 minutes allotted to us by Scott for tonight's session. So, I do want to give each of you a chance for kind of closing statements, if you will, to kind of wrap up this conversation for all of us. Michael, I want [01:26:39] Speaker 3: to give you the floor. Take as much time as you need. I just want to say that I do think there are ways to define facts versus opinions. And I don't think that there is an insidious ploy by certain YouTubers to disguise opinions as facts. I think what it boils down to most of the time is what opinions you agree with and what opinions incense you. And that motivates how some people react on their social media channels. I'm still of the firm belief that if my opinions about the toy industry and toy corporations had lined up with Scott's, then I never would have heard from him or seen videos about me on his channel. Because pro-corporate messaging doesn't make his radar in a critical way. We're all critical about different things. And we're all critical in different directions. And so for me, I am still of the opinion that appeals to corporatized, user-generated content are not what we need in this space right now. We need all voices, whether or not they love things like the HasLab Sentinel or don't like the way Hasbro is handling it. I do not think certain voices should be siphoned off and silenced or labeled liars or labeled deceptive because we're talking about our experience and our point of view as lifelong toy collectors. Many of us having a varied background of experiences in life prior to and during our toy collecting hobby. So I wish that Scott had introduced himself to me in a normal way, you know, back in 2020 or 2019, but it didn't happen that way. And, you know, unfortunately, going forward, that just means that it's created some tension and it's created, you know, this. And I hope that, you know, there's less of that in the future. I hope, I hope more of us don't hitch our wagons like ambulance chasers to other people's content and instead just step out there with our own opinion and are confident in it and just talk about our point of view without having to drag somebody else into it. So, yeah, I hope going forward that Scott and I have a more, you know, positive and productive social media relationship. I'm glad we had the opportunity to have this talk. I'm really glad that that Jay and John stepped up to do this on Geek Dad Life. I greatly appreciate that. And now I give Scott the floor. [01:29:19] Speaker 4: Scott, you know, Michael, I want to absolutely thank you for coming on and answering, you know, I think my original request that we connect and I'm thrilled that we did. I think this conversation, you know, we obviously disagree on some things, but that's perfectly normal. I mean, people disagree all the time. And absolutely, we have different views of corporate America and what they should do. And that's 100% fine. I really thank you for coming on. You know, I think just I did do a video on my channel called Why Does This Channel Exist, explaining my channel. And a big part of it, the reason I did it, other than I was really bored during Corona, was I wanted to create a channel that we have a very frustrating hobby. I think you could agree on that. And I found over the years of being, you know, working for large toy companies and small toy companies that like you just, that example you brought up about the confusion of the sculpting of the Royal Guard and why other stories got out there. That's a perfect example. I'm so glad you brought that up because it shows how misinformation gets out there and further confuses and frustrates us. We have a frustrating enough hobby as it is. So that's why I started my channel was to try to break through that confusion. If I've ever attacked you directly, I apologize. From what I could tell, the only quote I ever said about retroblasting was, again, two minutes and 50 seconds. In the response video, I said, "Retroblasting is a great channel," and that was a great video. Obviously, I have, you know, broad generalizations about, you know, channels giving misinformation. And I get why it felt like, I 100% understand why it felt like I was talking about your channel. I assure you I wasn't, not specifically you. I was talking about mostly things I was seeing in my comment section. I would love to have an ongoing positive, you know, dialogue and conversation with you. I think it's great. I think that opposing opinions in the story industry is positive because it's going to bring about more information for the fans. The only thing that I kind of want to also bring up or close with is, as I just explained about Mighty Specter, you made a video very much deliberately attacking me and my motivations for doing that, which I hope I've explained was not true. And I'm not to say that to you, but kind of to all the fans out there that have been under that impression. I'm just, was just trying to make good fun toys for everybody. In no way was I ever trying to take over a brand. I think that I've hopefully cleared that up. I saw you nodding your head there. I don't get any grudges. I just hope that we can have a very positive relationship going forward. I think that future debates like this and even involving more people like having, you know, you and me and Pixel Dan and, you know, other, you know, would be great. I'd love to do like a round table of all of us. I think it'd be fantastic. I'm all for positive things. You know, toy collecting is a positive hobby. It's frustrating at times. But I think that just realizing that it's going to be an ever-changing industry and an ever-changing thing. And it's really great to have so much product out there and so many complete collections. And I just hope we can all get the toys we want to have and can continue to collect for many years. [01:32:41] Jay: All right. And with that, we will bring about a close to this special debate on toy collecting and the toy industry. I want to thank both Scott and Michael for being open to coming on the show tonight. I think, you know, at the core of it, and hopefully you guys have heard this in their closing statements. Big fans of toy collecting and these properties that we all know and love. And they may have differing opinions. But it is something to say that they're willing to come out and talk about it directly on this show today and willing to do it going forward. And hopefully that is at least something good to come out of this conversation. Another thing is, again, committed to all of the ad revenue generated from this stream going to Make-A-Wish Foundation. I know there's some people early on saying we need receipts or whatever. Happy to, I don't know, share it on social media or whatever. Just a screen cap of whatever YouTube is going to give as far as, I mean, any YouTuber knows it takes, you know, a little while for all that to show up. But that will be going to the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Thank you for everyone in the chat. Thank you to our our moderators. I know it probably wasn't easy trying to suss out all of the different things going on, trying to keep it together. But I think, you know, overall, it looked like a pretty good chat on the side. And I know for anybody here, we do have a post-debate show with Yes, Have Some and Mad Hatter Reviews. That'll be immediately after this. But Scott, Michael, thank you so much. I think both John and I can both say we have been big fans of your work for a long time. Michael, we've worked directly with you. Nothing but real kindness and professionalism and just really, we're an amazing person to work with. And Scott, one, you can see John's background that we bought your product in pretty large quantities, but also you've been on the show too, and have been always kind and respectful of your time. So we thank you both very much. And with that, we will close out this special debate. Thank you to everyone. And until next time, hasta luego, and goodbye.