5 senator-judges oppose disclosure of Sara Duterte's tax, bank records — ANC

[0:00] Attorney, may we know lang po kasi kanina sinabi po ni Sen. Alan Cayetano na nag-submit na po sila noong letter objecting to yung ruling po on the bank and tax records. [0:15] Pero si Sen. Joel po kinlarifyin niya na hindi objection, manifestation lang kanya. May we know kung sino po doon sa mga nabanggit na Senators kanina yung objections yung ipinasan nila? [0:26] Sen. Alan Cayetano, Sen. Pia Cayetano, Sen. Judge Amy Marcos, and Sen. Judge Lauren Legarda. And also Camille Villar. I have to clarify kung kasama si Sen. Judge Bongo. [0:49] So, separate manifestations po sila, attorney, or sa isa lang? [0:53] Separate po. [0:54] Separate. Okay. Pwede pong malaman yung gist ng kanilang mga manifestations? [0:57] Ah, hindi pa po ako preview dun eh. So, hindi ko pa po nababasa. But I will try to ask about the contents of those manifestations. [1:07] Pero ang sigurado po ay nag-object sila doon sa ruling on the bank and tax documents. [1:13] It seems like from the manifestation of Sen. Alan Cayetano kanina. [1:18] And then may sinabi po kasi ang defense panel sa kanilang press conference na pinag-iisipan nila yung pag-akyat sa Supreme Court [1:28] at hindi kasama, parang malabo yung option na pagpo-file ng motion for reconsideration kasi wala sa impeachment rules. [1:35] So, ang question ko po, number one is, ito po bang pag ganito, justiciable, or pwedeng akit talaga sa Supreme Court? [1:41] At pangalawa, ano mo bang nasa impeachment rules? Hindi na pwedeng i-appela yung ruling ng presiding officer [1:51] like itong pagpapasabi na sa bank and tax records? [1:55] At the period of appeal po, tapos na po yun. Upon the resolution, usually ginagawa po yun. [2:02] And usually, it's the senator judges who appeal the resolution of the presiding officer. [2:06] Now, the parties, wala po nakalagay. Tama yung depensa na wala nakalagay na pwede mag-motion for reconsideration po. [2:13] At kung hindi po inilalagay yung recourse na yun, then they have to find another recourse in the subcultorial rules po of court [2:22] regarding the issuance of the subpina. [2:26] So, mababasa naman po nila yun sa Rule 21 or doon sa iba pang mga rules ng rules of court kung ano po yung next step po nila. [2:34] Ayaw po po silang pangunahan because ayoko rin pong maakosahan na nag-aabogado sa respondent, katulad last year. [2:42] The attorney, noticeably, wala nang mga manifestations concerning the senators themselves. Wala nang ganon. [2:52] So, klaro na yun po na hindi na mangyayari yung mga nakaraang araw. [2:56] Opo. I think tumalima naman po sila sa sinabi ni presiding officer at saka yung commitment ni Senate President Sherwin Gatchalian kahapon [3:04] na meron na po silang forum by next week to ventilate those kinds of issues po yung mga personal manifestations po nila. [3:11] That goes into their function as a senator and as a senator judge po. [3:17] So, I think alam na rin po ng mga senator judges na konti na lang naman yung araw na kanilang hihintayin para to air those things out. [3:26] Kaya ni-refer din po kanina ni presiding officer yung mga manifestation na speeches nila, [3:32] Senator Alan Cayetano at saka Senator Pia Cayetano po nung July 14, doon po sa Senate legislative body para talakayin po next week. [3:42] Masasabi rin po sinunod yun doon sa hindi pag-confront kay Attorney, kay Director Matibag, [3:49] ni Senators Cayetano siblings po. [3:55] I think meron po, kaya po kanina nagkaroon po ng admonishments si presiding officer [4:04] is because of, yun po, isa po yun sa kapangyarihan ng ating korte na katulad ng sinasabi ko po [4:14] na i-admonish o i-reprimant o pagsabihan o gabayan yung mga parties po pati yung mga witnesses po [4:21] regarding their demeanor in and outside of the courtroom, especially when it goes into the merits of the case. [4:27] So, parati po yung nakapangyarihan ng presiding officer, kaya yung paggawa niya po ng gano'n, [4:32] ibig sabihin, as a matter of factual conclusion lang sa nangyari at saka sa manifestation [4:38] ng Sen. Alan Cayetano, e nakonsidera po ng presiding officer na yung mga ganong statements [4:46] might also go into the functioning of a senator judge during the impeachment trial. [4:53] Isa na lang po, Atty. So, yung pag-admonish at reminder na yun kay Director Matibag [4:58] ay mag-a-apply sa kanya hanggang matapos itong impeachment trial [5:02] o hanggang matapos lang siya bilang testigo dito? [5:06] I think hanggang matapos po yung impeachment trial [5:09] kasi po, syempre, isa rin pong public personality si Atty. Matibag [5:17] pero ang nilagay naman po ng presiding officer sa kanyang resolution [5:21] without prejudice po sa pag-iimbestiga ng NBI upol po doon. [5:26] So, kung meron na pong resulta yung investigasyon, as a matter of course, [5:31] siguro po, talagang ire-report naman ni Atty. Matibag [5:37] nang walang feelings yung mga findings ng NBI by that time [5:43] na all the appropriate actions po naman nung mga tao na inimbestigahan [5:50] na senador can also raise whatever manifestations or objections [5:56] they will in the Senate legislative body sessions. [6:00] Attorney, since may ganyan pong pag-admonish kay Director Matibag, [6:05] what happens po kung sakali na meron pa rin po siyang maging komento, [6:09] may mga statements pa din involving or referring to the senator judges? [6:15] One of the powers po ng court, kapag may admonishment na po [6:19] at hindi ka po sumunod doon, is the power to hold a person in contempt [6:23] for violating the lawful order of the court. [6:27] So, isa po yun sa mga pwedeng mga hingin ng any party [6:34] o ng any senator judge kapag may nakita pong paglabag ng any rules po. [6:39] So, ano lang po in accordance po yun doon sa rules of court natin. [6:43] Hindi natin nire-invent yung will. [6:46] It's just a matter of applying the rules po in a case-to-case basis. [6:51] Attorney, yung kanina po ba, parang first warning po siya [6:56] and ano po yun, motopropio ni presiding officer? [6:59] Yes, it's a motopropio warning of the presiding officer. [7:07] Attorney, na-serve na po ba, na-issue and na-serve na po ba yung subpina [7:10] para sa BIR, Locked Banking Institutions, [7:13] para dun sa bank and tax records ng Vice President? [7:17] I think bukas po ipapadala sa mga concerned na mga ahensya [7:22] sa BIR, saka AMLC, saka dun sa mga banking institutions. [7:26] Kasi medyo end of day na po, ano? [7:29] So, baka the sergeant at arm student be able to serve the subpinas already. [7:35] Pero gawa na po yung subpina. [7:38] Pero yung compliance doon, tama po ba? [7:41] July 39 AM? [7:44] Opo. [7:44] Or pwede earlier? [7:45] Or on that day? [7:46] Yeah, pwede po. Katulad ng land bank subpina po na in-issue, no? [7:52] Nag-comply na po yung land bank representatives [7:55] at nagbigay na po sila ng mga kopya, [7:58] ng mga cheque na involved po doon sa mga dokumentong pinakasubpina po. [8:04] Pa-expound lang, attorney, kasi nakalagay doon sa order [8:07] ni Senator Escudero is, [8:09] isubmit yung unlocked documents in camera. [8:12] Ayos ko. [8:13] In camera po, this is a technical term, [8:17] applying Almonte v. Vasquez case by the Supreme Court. [8:23] Ito po yung papakita po muna in private yung dokumento na yun. [8:27] Tapos magtatanong po, usually yung hukom o yung presiding officer [8:31] doon po sa representative ng Anti-Money Laundering Council [8:35] at tatanungin niya, dito ba sa nakalagay na mga report na to, [8:38] meron ba tayong lalabagin o i-disclose na methodologies [8:43] o kung paano ninyo ginawa yung inyong investigasyon [8:46] para hindi naman po in the future mapurnada yung mga gagawin pa nilang [8:52] investigasyon in other cases po [8:54] para hindi malaman ng publiko yung mga methodologies na yun. [9:00] So kapag sumagot naman po yung AMLC na wala naman po gano'ng lalabagin [9:05] sa pag-re-release ng mga reports na yun sa publiko at saka sa parties, [9:10] then papayagan po yung unbridled access to those documents. [9:14] Pero kung meron po, then i-assess pa po kung ano doon [9:17] nang pwedeng ilabas nang hindi magdi-disclose na methodologies [9:22] o kung meron po bang other way na ilabas po yung mga reports na yun [9:27] nang hindi rin nagdi-disclose na mga methodologies. [9:32] So para sa appreciation po ng presiding officer [9:35] kung existing po yung mga facts na yun o wala. [9:40] Thank you, attorney. [9:41] Gag-order? [9:47] Hindi naman po. [9:48] Parang pagpapaalala lang po. [9:51] Yun po yung admonishment. [9:53] A reminder po. [9:54] To talk about yung... [9:57] Na huwag pong magsalita ng mga makakasira [10:00] doon sa kredibilidad at integridad ng korte [10:04] at saka po ng mga senator judges na bumubuo ng korte. [10:09] So ibig sabihin, huwag pong direktang magsabi ng mga [10:12] mga akusasyon na pwedeng mag-cast ng doubt [10:17] sa credibility po ng impeachment court [10:20] pati ng mga senator judges. [10:22] Paano, sir, pag let's say may senator judge na inibistigahan sila [10:27] pwedeng, hindi, hindi, kaya dapat hindi banggitin? [10:31] Hindi naman po, no? [10:33] Hindi yun yung sinasabi ng presiding officer [10:35] kaya may kulatilya po siya. [10:37] Sabi nga, without prejudice to the investigation being done [10:41] by the NBI. [10:44] On certain personalities. [10:47] So, pag in... [10:48] Kapag natapos na po yung investigasyon [10:52] at meron na pong findings, [10:53] as a matter of fact, [10:55] pwede namang sabihin kung ano po yung findings na yun. [11:00] True affair and true report lamang [11:03] ng walang halong bias [11:05] or wala halong emosyon [11:08] sa pag-disclose ng facts na yun. [11:11] Yun lamang po yung hinihingi ng korte. [11:14] Sir, isa po. [11:16] Yung, may nagkaroon po ba ng admission kanina [11:19] si NBI Director Matibag na he met with the prosecution [11:24] prior to na maisalang siya? [11:28] And Attorney Vinloan is parang question yun. [11:32] Is it appropriate na imit mo yung ano [11:35] or being a witness po ng prosecution? [11:38] I don't know. [11:39] Appropriate po ba yun or what? [11:41] I am not qualified po, no, [11:44] as a spokesperson to make that determination. [11:48] But the defense is doing its job, no, [11:50] in the textbook trabaho po ng isang abogado yun [11:55] kung ikaw po ay nagko-cross-examine [11:57] at nakalagay rin po sa rules of court yun [11:59] na pwedeng i-impeach yung witness [12:02] in the credibility of the witness [12:04] through bias, [12:06] by showing of a bias or prejudice [12:08] or showing, yun nga, [12:12] parang conflict of interest [12:14] at yung testimony rin po, [12:17] credibility ng testimony. [12:19] So, ginagawa lamang po [12:20] nung magkabilang panig, [12:22] pati po nung prosecution, [12:23] yung kanilang trabaho. [12:25] So, makikita, kasama po yan, no, [12:26] na mailalahad ng [12:28] bawat panig sa publiko [12:31] kung paano yung mga ginagawa namin [12:33] sa korte [12:35] in ordinary court proceedings. [12:39] Attorney, sorry. [12:41] Ano po, ladies first. [12:43] Ano lang, balikan ko lang po yung sinabi [12:45] regarding the admonishment. [12:48] So, hypothetical situation, [12:50] magkaroon ng press conference [12:53] and then yung parang mayroong sasabihin [12:56] or investigation in relation to [12:59] one of the senator judges. [13:01] So, ibig sabihin, [13:02] bawal po talagang magsalita [13:04] si Director Matibag. [13:06] Alam nyo po, [13:07] I cannot, [13:09] hindi ko po lahat mahuhulaan [13:10] kung ano po yung pwedeng mangyari. [13:12] But, I think, [13:14] ang pinakamagandang rule po dyan [13:15] is we will cross the bridge [13:16] when we get there. [13:18] And if there is a determination [13:19] kung may na-violate po [13:20] o hindi na-violate na rule, [13:22] I think it's the impeachment court [13:23] or any senator judge [13:26] or any party po [13:27] ang magre-race po noon [13:28] to the attention of the impeachment court [13:30] and the presiding officer. [13:32] And, doon na lang magdadetermine [13:34] kung mali ba o tama yung ginawa [13:36] kapag nangyari na po [13:37] yung mga nangyaring yun. [13:39] Pero, as of now po, [13:40] parang ang hirap po [13:41] kasing saklawin lahat [13:42] ng mga possibilities [13:43] kung ano dapat [13:45] at hindi dapat pong gawin [13:46] ng isang tao [13:47] in connection with the admonishment. [13:50] Just for the record, [13:51] basta the entire duration [13:52] of the impeachment trial, [13:54] ito po yung effectivity niya? [13:55] Apo. [13:56] Alright. [13:56] Thank you, Attorney. [13:57] Thank you po. [13:57] Hi, Attorney. [13:58] Good evening. [13:59] Inaalaw po ba ng rules [14:01] kung halimbawa executive session? [14:04] In executive session, [14:05] one senator judge [14:06] or the presiding officer [14:07] ang tumawag na executive session [14:10] para matanong lang [14:11] si Atty. Matiba [14:12] kung sino yung person of interest [14:16] para lang na [14:17] para hindi delikado [14:18] yung investigation nila [14:20] if among the judges lang, [14:23] para lang may idea sila [14:24] kung meron na nga bang [14:26] pinupuntahan na investigation, [14:28] may tinutumbok nga bang [14:29] contracted killer, [14:31] may ganung mechanism ba yung court? [14:34] Based on my analysis [14:35] of the rules po, [14:37] under Rule 6 [14:38] of the Senate impeachment rules, [14:40] mababasa po ninyo doon [14:42] na suportorily applicable [14:44] yung Senate rules, [14:46] apati po ng rules of court. [14:48] Pag sinabi po natin [14:49] na suportory applicable, [14:50] pag hindi po sinasabi [14:51] sa Senate impeachment rules [14:53] yung mga ganung mga proseso, [14:55] pwede bang i-apply [14:57] yung Senate rules [14:59] on the legislative process? [15:02] Doon po may makikitang [15:03] executive session. [15:04] At kung yun po [15:06] yung balak gawin [15:08] ng isang senator judge, [15:10] mag-move po siya, [15:11] then baka pong viable [15:13] possibility po yun [15:14] na pwedeng mangyari [15:15] because meron naman pong [15:17] basihan na [15:17] suportory application po [15:19] ng Senate rules po. [15:21] But as of now po, [15:22] wala tayong nakitang ganun po [15:24] na ginawa [15:26] ang any senator judge po [15:28] para to disclose [15:29] the names of the [15:31] person of interest. [15:32] And also po, [15:34] kailangan po natin [15:35] tandaan na [15:35] under Memorandum Circular 15 [15:38] po na in-issue [15:39] ni Presidente Marcos, [15:41] si Knight po kanina rin [15:43] ni witness NBI Director Matibag, [15:48] he is bound by the confidentiality [15:52] na hindi niya po pwedeng i-disclose yun [15:54] kasi part po yun [15:55] ng ongoing investigation. [15:57] And that is respected by [15:59] the impeachment court [16:01] and the senator judges themselves [16:02] na may existing [16:03] and justifying circumstance po [16:06] para hindi makapag-disclose [16:09] ng ganun. [16:09] Excuse po yun [16:10] para sa isang testigo. [16:12] Pero yung executive session po, [16:14] what will trigger that? [16:15] Does it need only one judge [16:18] para to ask for an executive session [16:21] specific dyan sa... [16:23] Based po doon sa Senate [16:25] rules on impeachment po, [16:27] pag may mag-motion po na judge [16:29] na gustong katulad na nakita nyo [16:30] last week po, [16:32] yung may nag-motion po [16:34] na mag-cocus po sila [16:35] bago ang oral arguments, [16:37] yun po will be decided upon [16:39] by the presiding officer [16:40] or if the presiding officer [16:42] wants to throw the question [16:44] to the Senate impeachment court [16:47] or the senator judges, [16:48] then they will have to vote on it. [16:52] Thank you, Pa. [16:52] Okay, I'd like to ask, [16:55] Senator Amy Marcus pointed out [16:57] that the records or acts [16:58] of the vice president [16:59] prior to her term [17:00] is outside the court's jurisdiction. [17:01] So how will the court [17:03] define the line [17:05] or establish the line [17:06] between the records or acts [17:08] within her term [17:09] and outside her term? [17:12] Um, nag-resolve na po [17:14] yung presiding officer [17:17] ukol dyan. [17:18] Ang sinight po na mga kaso [17:20] ay yung concerned taxpayers [17:22] versus doblada [17:24] at saka po yung... [17:26] kalimutan ko na, right? [17:29] If I'm not mistaken, [17:30] Republic versus Sandigan Bayan [17:32] at saka ombudsman [17:34] versus... [17:38] I forgot na. [17:39] Pasarada doon sa briefer ko. [17:40] Yung mga kaso na yun [17:42] ay pinapahintulutan po [17:44] na tingnan yung mga pre-term [17:46] na mga wealth, no? [17:50] Para to establish [17:51] yung present na wealth po [17:54] ng impeachable officer. [17:56] Yung po yung naging basihan [17:58] ng presiding officer [17:59] in granting the subpina [18:00] na kahit po yung pre-term [18:02] na mga timelines [18:04] na mga dokumento [18:05] from 2007 to 2024 [18:09] ay naisama po [18:10] is because of [18:11] those specific cases [18:13] allowing such comparison [18:15] to establish the factual [18:17] and mathematical baseline [18:18] of how the wealth [18:22] was accumulated [18:22] and how the wealth [18:23] was retained [18:25] up to the time [18:26] that the impeachable officer [18:28] started her term. [18:31] So, kailangan may baseline po. [18:33] Okay, just to establish [18:34] a pattern. [18:36] Regarding po sa schedule, [18:39] is there a possibility po [18:40] that there would be [18:41] extensions within the day? [18:43] So, for example, [18:44] 3 p.m. [18:44] atapos sometimes [18:45] may mitsa numahaba. [18:46] Would that be allowed [18:47] or move talaga [18:48] for the next day? [18:49] I think that is [18:50] one of the most [18:51] telling and compelling [18:53] consideration [18:54] of the presiding officer [18:57] and the impeachment court [18:58] with the senator judges [19:00] holding a caucus [19:01] na isa po sa kanilang [19:03] rason talaga dyan [19:04] is to [19:05] as much as possible [19:07] give time also [19:08] to the [19:09] senate legislative [19:10] body's agenda. [19:12] Kaya, kung [19:14] mangyayari po [19:16] na umaga [19:17] yung [19:17] senate legislative [19:19] agenda, [19:20] magkakaroon [19:21] ng putol [19:22] yung senate [19:22] legislative [19:23] agenda [19:24] at habang yung [19:25] impeachment court [19:26] proceedings naman [19:27] pwedeng magpatuloy [19:28] hanggang the wee [19:29] hours of the morning. [19:30] So, [19:31] mas tinitingnan din naman [19:32] ng ating [19:33] mga senators [19:35] yung kanilang [19:36] mga haharapin [19:37] ng mga [19:37] committee hearings, [19:39] budget hearings, [19:40] lahat po nung, [19:41] pati yung kanilang [19:42] mga legislative [19:43] agenda, [19:44] kailangan po lahat [19:45] yung matalakay. [19:47] So, [19:47] binibigyan nila [19:48] ng primacy po [19:49] yung kanilang [19:50] ginagawa bilang [19:51] senators as a [19:52] legislator [19:53] para matapos po [19:55] lahat yun. [19:55] Kasi, [19:56] katulad po [19:57] ng nasabi ko, [19:58] yung mga [19:59] gawain ng [20:00] legislativo [20:01] na senado [20:02] as legislative [20:03] body [20:04] is a creation [20:05] process. [20:06] Nagkakreate po [20:07] sila ng [20:07] bills [20:08] habang [20:09] ang [20:09] proceedings [20:09] naman po [20:10] ng [20:10] impeachment [20:11] is a [20:11] destructive [20:12] process, [20:13] we are [20:13] destroying [20:14] at least [20:15] yung [20:15] will of [20:16] the people [20:17] doon sa [20:17] impeachable [20:18] officer na yun. [20:19] So, [20:20] kailangan [20:20] balansahin po yun [20:21] ng impeachment [20:22] court at [20:22] bigyan ng [20:23] pagtuon din [20:25] yung [20:25] kailangan [20:26] niyang [20:26] gampanan [20:26] to create [20:27] important [20:30] legislation, [20:31] pati po yung [20:31] budget [20:32] para po [20:32] sa kapakanan [20:33] ng ating [20:33] publiko. [20:34] So, [20:34] I think [20:35] yung po yung [20:35] parang [20:35] pinaka-compelling [20:36] interest [20:38] that resulted [20:39] into [20:39] the senators [20:40] agreeing [20:41] to a [20:41] morning [20:41] session [20:42] to limit [20:43] the [20:44] impeachment [20:44] proceedings. [20:45] So, [20:46] it's more [20:46] of an [20:46] inclination [20:47] to [20:47] prioritize [20:48] also [20:48] the [20:48] legislative [20:49] parties. [20:49] In a way, [20:50] yes, [20:50] in a way. [20:55] Thank you!