City Council - Feb 06, 2025

Welcome to the City of St. Petersburg City Council Meeting. Your elected officials are Mayor Ken Welch, District 1 and Council Chair, Copley Gerdes, District 2, Brandy Gabbard, District 3, Mike Harding, District 4 and Council Vice Chair, Leseth Hanowitz, District 5, Deborah Figg Sanders, District 6, Gina Driscoll, District 7, Cory Givens, Jr., and District 8, Richie Floyd. Good afternoon, everybody. We'll call to order the February 6, 2025 City Council Meeting. We'll start with the roll call, please. Gabbard? Here. Harding? Henowitz? Here. Xanders? Here. Viscoll? Here. Givens? Here. Floyd? Here. Curtis? Here. Okay, we'll begin today with an invitation from Reverend Ada McFarley from Elder Bethel Community Baptist Church. Then please continue to stand for a moment of silence for fallen officers, and then please continue to stand after that for the Pledge of Allegiance. Almighty, let us bow our heads, please. Almighty God, as we stand in awe of your goodness and mercy today, we invite you to be present among us by the power of your Holy Spirit. Father, we declare that we love you, thank you, that you have made the way of love known through your Son, Jesus Christ. May we voice our truth and listen with our heart. May we discern your will to unite and fulfill fruitful outcomes. We ask for your wisdom and grace to use the talents of those who serve our local government and throughout our nation for the betterment of others. With gratitude, we offer this prayer in your name. Amen. Amen. Please join me in a moment of silence for Officer David S. Crawford. End of watch, February 21st, 2011. Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for religious fans and justice for all. Thank you. Please be seated. Reverend McFarley, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for that beautiful invitation. Okay, county members, we have an agenda in front of us. Originally, I had pulled CB6 from reports to F7. I'm going to close it up if it's okay. I'm going to place that back on consent. Staff was able to answer the questions that I had, and I don't have any concerns there, so I put that back at CB6. So I'll entertain a motion for approval of the agenda. Move approval. Seeing as no council members wishing to speak, we have a motion and a second. Machine for voting. Council members, please enter your votes. Council member Harding. Seeing as all present council members have voted, clerk, please tally and announce the vote. Mr. Chair, the agenda passes unanimously. Thank you. Okay, we've got a consent agenda in front of us. Clerk, do we have any public comment on the consent agenda? No. We do not. I'll entertain a motion on the consent agenda. Move approval. Second. Seeing as no council members wishing to speak, we have a motion and a second. Oh, I'm sorry. I did not see it. Council member Gabbard. Council member Gabbard. Thank you, Chair. My apologies. No, you're fine. Just real quick, on CB13, I just want to give a shout out to the Tampa Bay Regional. It might be a small dollar amount on this. However, I just think it shows their continued collaboration and support of the work that we're doing here in our city, and I just want to thank them for their collaboration. Thank you for pointing that out. Council member Floyd. Thank you. I also want to just highlight something that's in the consent agenda. I think it's CB1. It is one of the pieces of artwork that are going to go up at the Obama Library when it reopens. I'm really excited about it. I was on the selection committee for this. It's a nice, beautiful, natural scenery of water with some three dimensions to it and a nice quote from President Obama that relates as well. And so it's a really exciting day for our, in our city. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Seeing as no other council members wishing to speak, clerk, could you please open the machine for voting? Council members, please enter your votes. Seeing as all council members have voted, clerk, please tie in and announce the vote. Mr. Chair, the motion to approve the consent agenda passes unanimously. Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll move into open forum. Clerk, could you please read the rules? ...residents, owners of property, business owners in the city, or their employees may speak. All issues discussed under open forum must be limited to issues in the city of St. Petersburg government. If you're speaking to an item on the agenda, you may only speak once during the open forum or when the item comes up on the agenda. In order to provide an opportunity for all citizens to address council, each individual will be given three minutes to speak, and after which the microphone will be needed. If you wish to address city council through the Zoom meeting, you must easily sign on on your phone at the time the agenda item is addressed. When it is your turn to speak, you will be unmuted and asked to state your name and address. At the conclusion of the comments, or when you have reached the three-minute time limit, you will be muted. All raised hands will be lowered after each agenda item. Regardless of the method of participation you need, normal rules apply, including the three-minute time limit on comments. The requirement that any presentation materials must be submitted in advance of the meeting and the rules of decorum. If my public comment is disrupted by a violation of the rules of decorum, the chair is authorized to accept public comments by alternate means and came by email only. And, Mr. Chair, we do have some comments. Okay, let's call two at a time, please. The first two speakers is Dr. Perry G. Washington and Matt Widener. Please go to either podium, state your name and address for the record. You'll have three minutes to address counsel. Dr. Perry will use the mic. Perry, Washington. I come here with reference to case 2. Mr. Washington, we need your address, please. St. Petersburg, Florida. I will have the proud boy easily coming to my domain. St. Petersburg, Florida. You can laugh, but you are not me, and you will never be me, and you will never experience what I experience. Could you give us your neighborhood or cross streets, please, Mr. Washington? South St. Petersburg. Okay, go ahead. You have three minutes, Mr. Washington. I come here to tell you that I was assaulted on this very property behind this building, case number 2022-011211. Your security person witnessed the assault and battery would not assist me whatsoever. I am a 100% disabled United States veteran. I had just left this audience, asked for the police, she wouldn't call them. Someone did after he started beating on me. She told him to leave before the police came. I had my phone, and I took pictures of him in his vehicle and a license. He left. The police finally came. They disrespected me after I informed them who I am. I had to sit down because I'm 100% disabled. I was 65 years old and being beat up by a 32-year Latino because I wasn't moving fast enough for him. When the fire department finally arrived, I was told to get the fire department on the ground. Washington, don't use language like that again, or I'm going to cut you off. That's what he told me. I told him he don't talk to me like that. After all of that, finally, the paramedics came. They wanted me to walk from grain like to the road. I told him, no, I can't. Bottom line, I asked you all for a copy of that video because the video shows what happened. The police did nothing. I have the police report. Also, I wanted to tell you, instead of being on TV doing video shots, I want you to do your job, and that's not your job. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, fellas. My name is Don Legrone. I live at 2620 13th Street north. It's here in St. Pete. been between 125 and 138 dollars a month every month the our bill for September was $1,587 there was no leak at our location there was nothing running there was no leak in the plumbing my account was on auto pay because we had been out of the country and so you know they the city simply took the money from us I contacted the water department they said hire a plumber find the leak and prove that you cleared it well there was no leak I didn't hire a plumber because there was no leak ever the I don't know what went on but evidently there have been a lot of people who've had the same problem and the city needs to look into it thousand fifteen hundred dollar water bill in one month is outrageous let's say it I want to thank you for your support and work with the gas plant development thank you next speaker please hello my name is John Chen address is 718 93rd Avenue North St. Pete Florida 33702 I'm here to talk about same thing this gentleman just talked about our problems started roughly about the July this one we started seeing there was a spike and at first we just thought maybe it was because of that rate increase the when the hurricanes came we evacuated so we weren't home for a week to two weeks at a time yet we come back Haleem was a different story the meter was not red because of the hurricane so they guesstimated how much we would use based upon previous year usage but then like the difference was made up in the next bill not a problem but these bills were what used to be about 179 to 20 209 jumped up to 400 410 and I believe in August my sister had sent in an incorrect check it was the incorrect amount is for eight hundred dollars so we had this amount massive amount of credit so it was just coming straight out of the from the positive balance we tried calling time after time I can't tell you how many times I've called I've been hung up on as soon as I mentioned outrageous bill gets kicked off then when I speak to a supervisor supervisor's name was Terry we got cut off and then she called back and left the voicemail for me to call it directly every time I call she doesn't answer I leave a voicemail she never calls back we can't afford this like last month we had to like gather money from several family members just to make that bill so they wouldn't turn off the water so something something's amiss here we did a leak detector test there's no leaks the the flow seems correct we didn't go as far as like measuring hundreds of gallons but we measured about about 20 to 30 gallons and the flow seemed to be correct so we're not we don't know where this usage is coming from because it's showing we're using more water now than we're using last year this time and we've actually used less and as a matter of fact in the last two months we've consciously used less water and still the water usage is roughly about the same so don't know what else to say so hopefully we can get down to the you know to the bottom of this I think it's faulty meters they told me I needed to come here to speak in the forum for meters to get replaced that's all I have thank you thank you for your service next two speakers please okay Jerome King I'm gonna ask you to please unmute yourself you'll state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address city council you can go ahead please hello everyone my name is Jerome King I live at 45 46 10th Avenue South St. Petersburg Florida and I'm here today to speak on sound what what sounds like redundancy in the fact that there is a increase in our water bills and that you guys had a massive overhaul of the meters that are at my house all of child spark area my sister's house and prior to you guys doing this meter hall the meters were easily accessible meaning you could lift the the metal cover-up and for for us our bill was high and no one was even living in the home so we cut the water and it was still a bill but it was within reason so now that you guys have replaced all of the meters you you can't do that and the bill is what I would consider to be high now with that with me saying that I would like to say that my sister's meter it was her bills like a thousand dollars okay and come to find out you know we we went out there and looked at the meter we couldn't access it but you could hear that the water was just water was skiing and out and when the folks came to look at it we were able to take a couple pictures the point I'm making is that this overhaul may be a part of the spike in the bills and that there's a possibility that they're they're faulty they weren't installed properly or something of that nature and a lot of people like myself are dealing with high water bills and you do get a blanket rebuttal when you go to the water department and with that being said it would seem like our only hope for some type of normalcy would rely in you all's hand and whatever limits of power you guys head to address this manner and take a look at what's going on with the water department with the new installs of these meters and how has that offset the normalcy of what folks have been paying prior to that I also would like to say that when you do have a leak it isn't the easiest thing to go through the system that you guys have in place right now and that someone could take a look at it to see if there may be a better way to to have people actually submitting the the documentation that they need to submit and just the whole process itself that's all I have to say thank you thank you let's go to the next zoom speaker please now there's no more speakers no more speakers okay we'll go ahead and close open forum and we'll move into awards and presentations starting with D1 rebuilding together Tampa Bay proclamation presented by councilmember Gabbard councilmember Gabbard thank you chair I would like to invite the team from rebuilding together Tampa Bay up to join me we have Jose Garcia who is the CEO Anthony Baldo board president Margaret and I don't want to mess up your last name I'm so sorry a bondsman bonds and VP of new construction we have Sharon Painter who is our senior manager of marketing and communications Bob Watson the VP of operations and Justin Coles the VP of development so we brought the whole team out today yes so before I read the proclamation you know I just want to say how honored I am to recognize rebuilding together Tampa Bay their unwavering commitment to our community even before the storms is remarkable if you're not familiar with their organization definitely get involved with them because they do fantastic work but especially in the wake of the natural disasters that we have been through in our community they have stepped in to provide no-cost support to homeowners and families and address the most urgent needs affecting their well-being their work focuses on ensuring safe and healthy homes and is the foundation of every project and every program that they have undertaken since their beginning in 2000 they have impacted thousands of families through home repairs assessments educational initiatives supplies affordable housing opportunities is there anything you guys don't do I'm just saying we are doing education okay education so the list goes on and on their bandwidth for what they can do for people is remarkable and their mission to repair homes revitalize neighborhoods and rebuild lives envisions a future where everyone has access to safe homes and thriving communities now we're not the only one recognizing them because if you have not heard in late 2024 time magazine honored rebuilding together Tampa Bay as dreamer of the year this is a prestigious recognition that is awarded only to those who work relentlessly to protect and restore the dreams of others so I just want to thank you all for what you do we are so fortunate to have you in our community and on behalf of mayor Welch I'm going to read the following proclamation here I'm going to go ahead and actually give you the tiny print one because I can't read that one anyway so might as well go ahead and pass it along let me get me get that one all right so here it goes whereas rebuilding together Tampa Bay is a vital organization driven by a dedicated team of more than 25 professionals with diverse backgrounds ranging from construction management to community development and they began with a simple act of neighbors helping neighbors and whereas rebuilding together Tampa Bay has provided critical support to low-income residents by offering free post-storm repairs ensuring that vulnerable families have safe and livable homes after disaster strikes and whereas in the fall of 2024 after our state faced the devastating impacts of Hurricane Debbie Helene and Milton the response provided by the team at rebuilding together Tampa Bay was immediate and impactful and whereas rebuilding together Tampa Bay's unwavering commitment to assisting those in need was not only to repair homes but also strengthen the spirit of unity within the Tampa Bay region and whereas rebuilding together Tampa Bay was deservingly recognized as one of Time magazines 2024 dreamer of the year honorees a title reserved for individuals and organizations who work tirelessly to protect and restore dreams now therefore I Councilmember Brandi Gabbard on behalf of Kenneth T Welch mayor of the city of St. Petersburg do hereby officially recognize rebuilding together Tampa Bay for the significant impact their organization and its post storm recovery efforts have had on the citizens of the Tampa Bay region on behalf of City Council I also want to go a little step further and we are going to award the City Council challenge coin I have two of them so you'll have to share so I'm going to give one to Jose as the CEO and to Anthony as the board president as well thank you good afternoon Councilwoman Gabbard thank you very much for everything mr. chair madame vice-chair and the rest of the City Council members this is nothing but more fuel to the fire is it motivating us as committing to you that we will continue help as much as we can working with our partners corporate foundation and other groups that help us to get where we are we're committed to you we're committed to the residents of St. Petersburg and hopefully you will hear more about us as we continue doing the work thank you very much thank you so much for the support it there's a lot of work to be done and you know I think when the storms hit there's a lot of attention to it right away but there's so much more to be done and we're going to be here we're committed to the community where to do great things together thank you well thank you so much for being here thanks for all the work that not only you were doing before the storms but continue to do after the storms and Councilmember Gabbard thank you so much for celebrating them and and bringing rebuilding together Tampa Bay forward what it's the certainly the right timing and very appreciative of all the work that you do in our community along with them thank you so much okay we'll move on to D2 the Babe Ruth Day proclamation good job buddy well City Council it's obviously no surprise I'm a massive baseball fan you all know that and when you grow up in this town playing baseball one of the cool whispers that happens when you play across this city is you hear from your dad or your uncle you know or your grandfather that brings you to the field and they say you know Babe Ruth played here and it's a really cool feeling because when I grew up playing baseball you know one of the first clips you see is of this left-hander number three hitting what are absolute bombs in black and white and you go man I really want to do that well and then my dad turned me around and I swung right-handed so that that never could happen but it's it's an amazing celebration and Babe Ruth is is an amazing part of our history and both as a baseball fan as and as a St. Pete fan and frankly even as a west sider having where Babe Ruth played a lot of golf hung out maybe had a cocktail or two on the water and it's the the history that he brings along with the baseball history we have in St. Petersburg is something certainly to celebrate so we have Tom Stevens here Babe Ruth's grandson along with family members Will Michaels from the Kids and Cubs come on and join me and Steve Elfman the president of Azalea Neighborhood who on Saturday evening we're going to have a celebration commemorating 100 years of Babe Ruth coming to St. Pete and golf cart parade and a couple unveilings and have have a little celebration on the west side but it's my pleasure today to to offer this proclamation on behalf of the mayor to celebrate 100 years of history with Babe Ruth here in St. Petersburg and the proclamation states whereas George Herman Babe Ruth Jr. played baseball during spring training in St. Petersburg with the New York Yankees from 1925 to 1934 and again with the Boston Braves in 1935 and whereas Babe Ruth gave generously of himself while in St. Petersburg to support children's and other civic causes and organizations including what is now Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital the American Legion YMCA the Women's Club the Kids and Cubs St. Petersburg High School and the former Military Academy and whereas Babe Ruth's presence in St. Petersburg highlighted the city's association with sports outdoor leisure and just plain fun and greatly contributed to the city's sense of place and whereas Tom Stevens Babe Ruth's grandson and his family are celebrating the centennial of Babe Ruth's first year in St. Petersburg with a visit and will throw out the first pitch at the annual Kids and Cubs Mayor City Hall and City Council game on February 8th 2025 and now therefore I I Copley Gerdes Chair of the City Council on behalf of Kenneth T Welch Mayor of the City of St. Petersburg do hereby proclaim Saturday February 5th 2025 as Babe Ruth Day in St. Petersburg and encourage all of our residents to celebrate a legendary baseball great who 77 years after his passing is still fondly remembered in honor by fans everywhere thank you thank you so much for having us here it's our honor and pleasure to to be here to join you um and thank you for recognizing the many humanitarian things that Babe did um he received the sports humanitarian uh hall of fame award in 2010 and I read an article saying huh they're dragging the bottom of the barrel I guess I couldn't find anybody else which elicited a response from me of course um I had to point out to him his ignorance in uh he wouldn't if he really knew the the history he wouldn't uh he would never would have said that matter of fact I just recently uh read a paper I'd never seen before written by an oncologist who said that Babe's greatest contribution to humanity had nothing to do with baseball it was the fact that he volunteered for what at the time was brand new cutting edge chemo and radiation therapy he was one of the first in the country to he said well you know it may not work for me but at least if you learn something it'll help somebody else but that was the very nature of Babe Ruth so thank you very much let me just uh say on behalf of the uh kids and cubs uh there were some pictures up here a few minutes ago that showed uh Babe Ruth at the kids and cubs game back in 1933. If you look at that picture very closely you'll see uh Babe Ruth had a beard on uh there's a back story to that that I won't go into here but it's a great story but uh Babe Ruth was uh celebrated by the kids and cubs uh he was uh there on many occasions his family came his wife came his kids came to the games uh Babe Ruth uh served as a coach from time to time as did other members of the Yankees and it was a great uh interaction there a great uh sharing and bonding there between uh the the kids and cubs back in 1933 and the Babe Ruth family and we're very happy to be having having this second Babe Ruth day the first one back in 1933 and now uh again in 2025. It's great to uh help our community celebrate Babe Ruth. I think I won't go into any of the history here but I think everybody knows that when Babe Ruth played in the city the population of the city doubled and tripled and he contributed greatly uh to the advancement and the prosperity of our our wonderful town so thank you. Mr. Stevens, we have council member comments. Council member Gabbard. Thank you. So um just wanted to say thank you so much not only to uh chair Gerdes but to the mayor for bringing this forward today um unfortunately I won't be able to be with you all this weekend I'll be watching my own uh left-handed slugger on a ball field somewhere in Florida um but I'll definitely be with you in spirit and uh we'll be grateful that I won't be blowing out my knee this time playing you all so um you know Babe Ruth is one of the first things you learn about the history of St. Petersburg when you when you move here when I did 20 plus years ago and it's just such a rich history it's such a beautiful history it's something to brag about and raising someone who plays baseball and loves baseball and wants to be an MLB player someday um you know it's just really something that's special to our family and so um thank you thank your family thank you to everyone who's here today recognizing it and I will definitely be with you all in spirit on Saturday so congratulations Councilmember Faye Sanders oh no oh sorry okay well I want to first thank you and your family for being here and joining us here in beautiful St. Petersburg um thank you to Will Michaels who by the way could if he said the history we'd be here a long time because he knows every bit of the history when it comes to baseball and our city and he's a treasure and he makes sure that we preserve our history in our city I have to invite the family and I said this before the meeting but I'm going to say it again you have to go to Crescent Lake Park visit Huggenstengel Field it's a local and national historic landmark and that Babe Ruth played there and you'll be lucky to catch white pelicans that came from up north in the lake this year this time of the year your kids will have a great time it's a treasure it's a beautiful place and it's a place where right now our high school plays baseball so they play baseball on hallowed grounds it really is a special place in our city so I hope you make it there thank you so much for being here thank you okay and now we turn over to reports and we have f1 st pete police department quarterly report we welcome chief holloway you welcome morning chief afternoon chief geez good afternoon sir i'm here to go over the uh last quarter report for 2004 also i'll be summarizing the report for 2024. again i want to thank the men and women of the st petersburg police department for the outstanding work they do each and every day we're not able to reduce the fear of crime in our community without the community support so when you see these numbers it's really the police department and the community working together as we continue to reduce fear of crime in our city so the overall crime reduction for 2024 is 4.4.6 percent auto thefts are down by 36 burglaries are down by 22 percent and property crimes are down by seven percent the homicide for uh the quarter we had five during that period of time four were by farms one was by a knife of those five cases three were related to arguments and two related to arguments slash drugs what i want to compliment our detectives on is this is the third year in a row that they had a hundred percent clearance on our homicide case so every homicide was cleared with an arrest we did see an increase of homicide for this year in 2023 we had 13 in 2024 we had 18 so that's an increase of 38 but again they were all clear with an arrest as i talked about previous for the new council council members we were able to partner with atf so we have a machine that's called niben it's the national integrated ballistic information network what we used to do have to send our shell casing out to florida department of law enforcement so they could tell us identify that shell casing it probably would take us months to get information back now with the uh now with the machine in our office we get it within two to three days so we can tell you where that shell casing uh how many times that gun was used in our city it was used someplace outside the city or anywhere within the united states and again uh that's thanks to our partnerships with the uh atf our gun report uh still trending down we can get better uh again only only 30 30 of that period only 30 guns were taken out of our cars again about 90 of those vehicles were unlocked where you see the buildings of those buildings 39 were taken out of residential six commercial one from a bar and one from a convenience store but the good news is we had 66 guns turned into us and we also found 84 guns during that period of time our crime rate is staying steady it's not training up not trending down it's just a little up in different categories but again thanks to the good police work that's being conducted and also citizens calling in and telling us what they see in their community our rest stayed about the same and i know council wanted to make sure that i kept them aware of the motor vehicle theft again we're still having in our juvenile so six percent of the motor motor vehicle thefts you see there 60 66 percent of those are juvenile arrests our traffic is officers are still doing traffic enforcement we use our neighborhood group so they can inform us where we need to go out and put extra patrol our second chance program to break down at the four kids that did not complete where two were failure to show up for the training that weekend and the other two the juvenile and the parent declined to participate in the program and again again for our new city council members if the child per se is charged on monday and he or she admits that they've done wrong what we do is then we work with our parks and rec division we get that child some type of counseling service and then that report is not forwarded anywhere it stayed within the police department so if that child completes that program there is no record on file that he or she was ever arrested in our city our home program again is going very strong and that's with all the law enforcement participating here in pinellas county when they say a child is on radar that's a child is on probation that has one felony conviction a child is on intensive supervision that child and has five convictions of felonies our path team continues to work quite well on house people that live in our city and as you can see they're making a lot of contacts out there a park walk and talk as you see we're starting to increase there was a slight decrease over uh per se place they may last past two years because of covet and everything else but we're trying we're not trying we're going to get officers back out there start knocking on doors and getting to know our our community like we did a couple of years ago our eagle eye program again we're starting to get more people and as you saw this past week we were able to make an arrest just because someone had their cameras on we're able to identify the subject that committed that crime within 24 hours our use of force as you can see is uh staying steady for again for our new council members we are one of the police department anytime all she uses force he or she has to document it so if they have to take someone down to the ground that's one if they use their tasers that's two if there's two officers there then there's two reports because each officer has to write a report so that's why you see our numbers up because again we document every time someone uses force our complaints are down the one complaint you see is not a complaint of use of force and the last thing i have is our call program is still going very strongly as you can see from from the uh slide there and again thanks to the mayor's office and also thank the city council for funding uh this program we're getting calls from all over around the country continue to ask about our crow call program last time when i came to council i told you 93 of the calls were independent of law enforcement now is 97 of the calls are being again those are called that we also should not be responding to those call someone that's going through some type of medical issue or or or the parents need supervision or this is a non-criminal issue that we don't need a badge and a gun going there we need someone going there to help somebody help help someone through their crisis and the most important thing on that slide is people talk about it is zero incidents everybody thought when the civilian was going to go there something was going to happen our call team is very well trained i want to give kudos to them they go there it's triage to our 911 system to make sure that we're sending our uh navigators into what we believe is a safe scene and they're handling those calls correctly and these are some of the other uh things that they were involved in during this past quarter they helped out with thanksgiving and they helped out with christmas so with that i'll open up for any questions for city council council members council member vice chair hanowitz thank you chair i just have a quick question chief and maybe i'm i'm reading the numbers wrong and the sheet you say i guess october through december 2024 the call team made 933 contacts and then last year in the quarter was 868 contacts when i see the char it says total contacts made in 2023 368 and 2024 686. are those the same numbers are they different i just i was trying to figure out are you talking about call ma'am it says the call team it said made 933 contacts i'm just is it half that's what it was okay i had it confused that makes sense okay now the other question i had because and i was looking at the number is it like because it was 868 and the other one was 686 and it's that was it was backwards uh the question i had on on path um total contacts made increase a lot can you tell me a little bit about that sure so uh we were down uh people so now we have more officers assigned to that so now we're making more contacts okay great great and then in total referrals those went down this year uh uh total referrals uh yes yes but the contacts made were much higher just because there's more staff there's more staff and also uh again you remember we have uh director false and her team are out there also you also have you also have call out there we have so much so many resources available that we're double and tripling up on some of these calls okay that was it thank you so much chief thank you thank you council member gibbons thank you so much mr chair thank you so much for being here chief holloway good to see you again i have questions for you um with florida's new uh civilian police review board uh having limited powers now because of the florida legislation um you mentioned the use of force um do you administer excuse me do you foresee there being any issues uh with the department uh with they're not having their excuse me with they're not being any powers by the civilian police review board well our civilian police uh review board sir is going to still be in place but what they're going to be doing is looking at the policy they can no longer look at the cases but i can tell you the way the use of force cases are investigated are the sergeant reviews it then it goes to the lieutenant then it goes to the major and then it goes to the also professional standard uh if the officer after is 10 incidents in six months then it automatically goes to uh also professional standards and we go back and review all the cases so every time an officer he or she uses force it is reviewed by everybody in the chain of command thank you for that and then my second question for you is with new policies coming out from the federal level um do you believe that you have the resources that you need to uh enforce or to mitigate the new policies as it relates to immigration control sir until that comes out i can give you an answer on that because i i don't know exactly what's coming up from the federal government we will abide by all the guidelines that comes up from the federal government but i haven't seen anything yet that they're asking us at this time i appreciate you thank you chief you're welcome sir thank you councilmember driscoll thank you thank you for the report chief and for all that you and the rest of the police department do every day for us um regarding the uh the slide on the path numbers there was there were um 100 for 2024 132 total referrals um but 135 transports so where did the other three people go where those are right where those actually i i really can answer a question for you but i can guarantee you by the end of the day i can get it for your first thing tomorrow i'm just wondering and then i know i think this question is different from what vice chair hanowitz just asked which is um it says that i think she asked about the total contacts being made going up um quite a bit but then if you look at total referrals that number from 23 to 24 is down quite a bit so can you tell us about that sure and again i would have to check with the sergeant and see exactly if if if they're just not they're doing it a different way from so like i said it's a difference of 200 so let me look into that and i will definitely uh send city council response on that i know it's that the unit is very active and so um i was thinking maybe there's a change in the way that things are being reported but we um certainly i mean you would think if the total number of contacts made went up that much that the total referrals would go up too and that's kind of what you're shooting for right is as many referrals as possible which means people are agreeing to go get some help that is correct ma'am yeah if you could follow up with some additional information on that i i'd appreciate it i'll get it to you before you all right thank you again for um for this great report and for all that you that you guys do thank you chair thank you councilmember fix sanders thank you thank you chief for this report i have um just a couple of things that um i want to first echo that the eagle eye program was an excellent addition to uh the city of st petersburg because there was um an extreme accident right on the corner of my street where the young man lost his life and to see that car roll and to know that he did not get out of that car watching that video was very disheartening but the initial narrative was that he was in the wrong until you got that video and so it did my heart well for his family to know that once they received that video and that you caught the other person in georgia somewhere a couple of months later that could not have happened had we not had that video so again um i don't know if that homeowner is in the eagle eye program or not i'm going to go and ask but they did call me and say councilwoman we have that video and it's not what they're saying it is and so i'm so grateful for that um the report is it's wonderful and we love to have the statistics of what's going on but one of the things that in your report we've never done or asked for i do see where you've reported some awesome things that the call program has done but i've been out with our law enforcement doing a bunch of great things the bicycle giveaway the pops programs um and i know we don't want the report to expound too much in regards of time but i think some of those things should be taunted i think some of those things should be shared with our constituents i know we're on a website and things like that and we're looking at these numbers but there are a lot of things that are going in correlation such as the call program that's helping some of these numbers and helping our police department to look as effective and impactful as they are so i just want to say thank you great work um you know whenever i i look at my text and i see something from the police department i know i'm going to be sad when i read the message but you all have done an excellent job of keeping us informed um and i do appreciate that so thank you so much chief thank you chair thank you chief thanks for the report um i i guess my first question is i'm sure the storm impacted our officers personally and i'm very thankful for everything they kept doing the work despite that but it looks like i was expecting when we got this report for numbers to look a little different but it seems like they were flat even though these numbers include directly after the storm so it seems like things stayed relatively status quo is that would that be i mean an accurate statement that is very accurate okay um the the one thing that i did notice where i i thought there was a relatively big jump and my guess is is this it's because of that and having streets closed and lights down is traffic citations crashes and stops were significantly down um i don't i don't know if that's because for a couple of weeks a lot of people weren't here um but uh i hope it's a trend i guess is what i'm saying um and then also for the amount for you for the officers and our and our pd to do the amount of park walks and talks in the fourth quarter um and to see this grid map of them being spread out i love seeing this this is awesome and i'm really glad you highlighted that you're trying to get back to the to to big numbers because i really think and i have seen this occur in my district i really think this goes a long way i to be honest with you i think there this is me and it's a total guess i think there is a direct correlation with people slowing down when you have more park walk and talk when there is an officer out in the neighborhood walking around when they see when people see those cars parked people tend to just be a little bit more cautious and so when i see these numbers go up in in the past over the last three years you have seen citations crashes and stops go down and so i'm very happy that you highlighted it very appreciative and i'll just echo one more time thank you to all of pd and our first responders and the teams for uh and i mentioned this at the state of the city uh for the just the continuous work throughout the storms it's nothing short of heroic and i'm and i'm very thankful for you and all the department so thank you for the update chief thank you sir thank you okay we're moving on to f2 a resolution approving a second amendment to the agreement with glow global rope access and we've got raul quintana raul we're going to do f2 and f3 together but we'll vote on them separately you can vote on them together okay all right thanks raul we'll turn it over to you appreciate it uh council my name is raul quintana city and uh engineering capital improvements department um i thought this would be a kind of a besides the fact that we've got two items uh before you just kind of a um a moment to kind of give you a sense of where everything is and i know it's been a lot of contracts and we have new council members um and since the storm uh this gives you a kind of just a idea of the number of uh contracts that we've have uh entered into the way we're we're approaching it on the left hand of the screen are the emergency services that we entered into uh essentially right away and the dates below are the dates that we either entered into those agreements or that council authorized uh the agreements so on the far left under uh gra the global rope access uh column uh the very the third one down is uh the last is the first item is f2 but i just wanted you to see how that fits in and global rope access was the team the very highly skilled team that came in and through a series of rope climbing activities they were able to remove all the remnant torn roof materials off the roof we had an amendment to that in december there were a series of metal panels that were still up on the roof they came down and took that down and effectively this this change order is just to catch up there was some additional work additional hours that were necessary uh to perform the work an additional effort um and it was a six or eight uh men that were out here pretty much all the time so this is the the kind of the closeout change order to catch up with the the actual work so the rest of the uh the items under the emergency side had to do with the assessments of the facility uh the waterproofing uh efforts that are that have been done and are still underway uh and then the uh the remediation efforts that most of which have been completed and some that are still underway so on the right side uh of the the the columns here those are the restoration that is actually the restoration work that is what we've been focusing on a tremendous amount of effort going into this there's i've got you know three categories here that the first two uh the roof replacement is its own standalone uh tranche here uh council authorized the design build agreement with pre-construction services on december 12th to hennessey construction that is underway a lot of activities happening both engineering studies that are going on uh the intent the hope and you'll see in the schedule that i have here is to try to bring back the guaranteed maximum price for the design build of uh putting back the actual fabric roof uh hopefully sometime in the month of march towards the end of march if everything goes through the way we're projecting right now and so the column in the middle those are the non-roof events and that's kind of what uh f3 is um in december we brought uh the design side of that services to begin the development of the drawings and the plans to put down onto documents all of the work that needed to be uh repaired that's um you know the the panels on the building uh ceilings um areas of uh you know the some of the low voltage areas some of the the audio visual components so there's a tremendous amount of effort now going on to try to identify what those are exactly and that's what we're doing with uh f3 and hennessy construction with uh a uh acom hunt they're they're going to provide pre-construction services for us to better define all of those elements make sure that we all understand that there's a lot of work being done with uh both uh the rays and major league baseball to uh really understand what those are and and develop documents that are going to be permitted and then there's going to be a series of probable bid packages that may be more than one gmp we might have multiple gmp's to perform that work and that's going to come forward uh through you know between i would say april through june we're going to be bringing a series of of elements and the last one on the right is just you know we we all know that the field itself is a standalone element we're working on and that's going to happen you know once we get through it so this is i thought it'd just be helpful to kind of uh this is going to get heavily populated there's going to be a lot below the line we'll have to squeeze it all in here but a lot of work going on so just again uh f2 is the uh 55 000 change order basically amendment number two to global rope for the additional time and effort they needed to complete the work the work is now done safely all the all the materials are off the roof and they have basically completed their their scope uh and f3 is the construction manager at risk agreement for the non-roof repairs like i said it's 896 000 this will get us through um you know most of uh the summer uh the actual activities again those are going to be part provided in various guaranteed maximum price packages but this gives you a sense of what kind of that work is it's the the cladding on the building the interior cladding and the the perimeter cladding on the outside it's all of the you know the the sound the pa system the video boards uh the broadcasting system anything that's relevant to baseball and the ability to conduct uh games in this facility uh we're tackling we're we're identifying we're scoping we having uh experts in each of these areas provide us those details and then again put those on the drawings get them permitted and and go out for bid so we've got elements of this that are that's going to be i've already started working with our um our uh sb folks and making sure that we're reaching out to the community for the elements that can be bid competitively bid and provide uh those services so there's a lot of you know drywall work that has to be replaced ceilings flooring that sort of thing um and that uh is generally what where we are uh just real broadly on the schedule um again the first three rows there is the the roof work which is underway and our goal if everything falls in place here is to try to bring this gmp proposal for the replacement of the roof at towards the tail end of march um and what needs to happen in order to make that happen uh we've we've got to get our engineering into the building permit division review those permits approve them and make sure that the um the testing of the acoustics and the playability all fall within the the standards that are required by major league baseball and make that happen uh and the tampa bay rays and then the non-roof repair work which uh again this today is the the cmar agreement that we're bringing to you um this again it's going to take us several months to develop that work in the meantime uh the ordering of of the the roof and the installation of the roof you can see between april of this uh this this spring when we uh approved with the approval from council of the gmp release the the order start the fabrication deliver the material in august start the installation in august and take us through november for the completion and dry in of the roof and then simultaneously we've got all of this work outside of the the roof itself and it's it's going to be challenging to do much of that work without the roof we need to get the building dried in there are things we can do within the bowl but a good portion of that work is going to have to happen after we we dry in um and then the turf installation would be one of the last things we do so we're we're working really hard we've got a lot of people working on this we've got a very strong team of experts we feel we still feel confident that we're going to get this done within the schedule but you know all things said we're we're going to continue to pursue it and if there's any issues we'll obviously be communicating that uh very much as it happens so that's uh the presentation happy to answer any questions thanks raul councilmember gabbard thank you chair um thank you raul for the presentation and uh just a couple of questions so one of the things you know that we've talked about a lot and i've been concerned about is kind of these mlb approvals that have to happen as part of this work um has that been happening ongoing um is the raise still the liaison to that how is that going great question we actually have a major league baseball representative at our weekly meetings oh good uh and they've brought on a set a series of uh experts as well structural engineering a team thornton thomasetti is part of that team so every week we have a full meeting of all hands on deck to go through the schedule any issues uh the rays are a major part of that uh melanie lens is our our contact and she's been at at all of those meetings as well we've had uh two weeks ago we had a major walk through of the entire facility with major league baseball uh with the rays was a full day event so yes it's that activity is happening and uh they're very much engaged okay that's great news because that was that's always been a concern of mine was that we would be doing all of this trying to put it back and then you get to you know close to the end and they say it's not good enough or it's not able to be played in um so i'm glad to hear that that's happening uh thank you for talking kind of more in detail about the roof i did have some questions about that um but kind of understand you know where we are on the timeline of that so i appreciate that um the offices so they're currently their staff and their offices are currently relocated great um let's just say we do all of this but we aren't quite able to get them back in their offices necessarily have we had conversation about if that could potentially hold things up from opening day 2026 have not had that conversation there's a lot of damage in the offices right i think it's something that we're going to need to dive into quite frankly um our goal is to bring back the stadium to be able to be played baseball right um we are aware of the damages to the office we have not uh kind of uh settled on what that looks like and and the responsibility of who performs that work is still an open question and legal i just want to clarify um because i'm just kind of predicting where where we may end up with this work um we are only obligated to make sure that they have a place to play in correct right the the operative provision here relates to the ability to play home games right in the stadium we have had internal discussions about that and our position is that those offices are not required for the playing of home games okay that's good news because i am very concerned from when i did my initial walk through a couple of weeks after milton that was i mean the devastation inside the offices alone um was a lot and i just can't imagine us doing all of that work and still being able to get them back in their offices too and i don't want to have conflict with that i want us to be having those conversations throughout so um that's that's good that we are touching on that um because you never know they may have to stay in their temporary location and as long as we can play that's the goal so okay all right very good um i'll move approval of uh both uh f2 and three thank you councilmember driscoll thank you just to continue along those same lines um in those weekly meetings do we have someone from the city attorney's office present uh no we do not why not um really the it's it's uh you know establishing um you know kind of the path forward and establishing the communication with the construction team it hasn't been necessary to have legal i i deal with the city legal staff on all issues outside of those meetings but within those meetings no we have not found the need to have legal at those so who is making the decisions on how the word suitable is defined because per the current use agreement we have to make it suitable for playing home games and in this in the backup material here you've got um wall cladding both interior and exterior drywall flooring and ceiling damages in specified areas what are those areas please tell us what we're you're asking us to have to to fund um suite cabinetry and furnishings is that required by major league baseball audio made suitable um or sorry av equipment and broadcast infrastructure sure i can understand that and other associated work have we defined suitable has the list of requirements by mlb on what they require been given so that we have that checklist and as council member gabbard pointed out we don't want to miss something that later is required i don't want to spend a dime beyond what we absolutely have to to meet those requirements so please tell me that someone has legally defined suitable i'll jump in first council member the our interpretation of that is based on the wording in the agreement so i'm not going to say that i mean it doesn't break it down in the detail obviously that you've inquired i certainly understand your question if it helps i would say administration has been in frequent contact with our office about the nature of the repairs what they're intending to progress with to ensure that they are not going beyond our interpretation of the agreement so although we are not in the meetings as mlb attorneys nor the race attorneys are in those meetings either that doesn't mean that we're not working hand in hand with administration to make sure that this is not going any further than necessary based on the wording in the current use agreement thank you and has major league baseball provided a list of what elements make the the dome suitable for playing home games good afternoon council i don't think we have a specific list um from mlb on what makes it suitable but i think the key elements from mlb's perspective are the roof material related to the acoustics and the playability of light and the field conditions i think those are the main things that mlb is concerned about uh beth harrandean is really our lead on this and she's in these meetings every week we talk continuously about um you know what repairs are required in accordance with the use agreement we continue to have those conversations with the rays and the city attorney's office and continue to work through those things and i could probably give you more information on certain locations related to drywall and things of that nature if you'd like that information thank you has it been determined that suite cabinetry and furnishings is a requirement by major league baseball to make the dome suitable for playing home home games i can say that um i think the best i can say is you know this has been a very collaborative effort we don't have all the answers i don't think the rays have all the answers on this so that's part of what we need to have happen over the next couple of months with the work that's being done now i mean the walkthroughs through the building the the detailed list of all of the the elements that we know that have been damaged the determination of what goes on to those final drawings and get priced out still has to happen and that that's that's a discussion that we're going to have to have so i can't yeah there are things that we are looking at we're looking at everything what makes it to that final list that's going to be bid and we're going to be providing pricing for we're going to actually perform i can't sit stand here today and tell you exactly what's on that list but we're working it i mean there's just a lot and there are a lot of things that shouldn't be on the list that won't be on the list but what you're giving us here is is not no what i'm giving you here is just a sense of the things that we're going to be looking at these aren't absolutes the sort of things that that hennessy is going to be and his team are going to be uh inspecting and providing for example the seating we're going to have somebody come out and actually inspect the seats make sure that there's no issues with the seating due to the storm that may not make the list but we're going to inspect it we're going to we're going to evaluate a lot of elements of this building and make sure that yeah if it's required in order to conduct a baseball and we we're all in agreement with that that makes the final you know it's a component of the work there there will be packages of work that will um identify and target specifically to that group and then that work's going to be brought to city council and we're going to we're going to share it with you we're going to tell you this is this is the package of work that we need to have that we've priced out and we need to perform in order to make this this work so i can't i can't tell you exactly right now all those things that are that are going to make that list but you know we we know we have a very challenging um activity that over the next several months to to continue i mean the roof is really the easy part the roof is uh with all the complexity of of that that we understand that we've got engineers that we've got you know folks working on the testing and the evaluations of it but the balance of it is not balance is very challenging mm-hmm i will say that i'm really surprised that at this point in the game we do not have a definitive list for major league baseball on or on what is required that is the only thing that keeps us from overspending unnecessarily and when when you have something that's this broad it worries me now i understand that the request that you have before us today to approve is for the um the planning and and pre the the services from hennessy who i respect and have great faith in i have no problem with that i know that we need them to help us with this i just want to clarify for everyone that this amount that we're approving today is not sp is not for repairs it's for hennessy to help with the planning of the repairs to do the to identify those uh issues and um and components of the the work that need to be included onto the documents is to do the testing the evaluations um and it's a broad group of of uh experts within underneath the hennessey umbrella um so it's mep work it's it's a lot of a lot of um you know experienced folks that are going to have to be helping us on this so yeah and that that component that that pre-construction effort is going to take several months right so i i will approve this but i will tell you that i'm going to have a really hard time if you guys start coming to us with vague requests for funding for these repairs without being able to explain how they are required that they are required by major league baseball and in order to have the dome suitable for playing home games as according to the current use agreement please please be more specific and please someone find out what everyone wants for us to fulfill our obligation because that's all we want to do i think we can agree on that but the way that this is starting to come out the examples you gave today of the non-roof repairs are not going to be acceptable to me when if they're brought to me this way for approval when it's time to to fund those repairs okay all right thank you thank you mr chair councilmember gibbons thank you mr quenton i appreciate you being here uh you mentioned that this is an easy decision it's not it this is not easy um when you're dealing with taxpayers dollars and you have such vague requests and you're missing information it's not easy it's not easy being in our position having to make such a call um you know i get this this is for services not necessarily for repairs but it seems like we just keep getting these blank checks um you know these requests that have no no cap on the price tags and i just want to make sure that this is something that we are obligated to make a decision on today um so if legal can clarify for me um if this is something that needs to be decided on the day or if we can delay this that would be great councilmember it's a good question so the last time that an item came forward there was an exact time period in the agreement so if you would have asked me that question in december i would say it had to be on that day to be able to comply with the agreement now we're in the phase of we've checked that first box and the thing that the city has to do now is diligently pursue repairs so i'm not going i can't sit here and tell you that in order to comply with the contract you would have to approve it today at some point failure of the city to move forward could be a lack of diligently pursuing the repairs there's not a definition of that phrase in here but this one is not a hard and fast date i think this is uh in consultation with administration feeling like it's the appropriate time in order to say on the schedule that has been discussed thank you thank you mr chair thank you councilmember floyd thank you uh i pretty much just wanted to put myself on here to say um you know this is uh design work and i i'm happy to support it uh today it's uh not super impactful but i am still in the same position i've been in the whole time in that i want to see us have a very broad and open discussion about the future of tropicana field before i am willing to spend money on funds to reconstruct it um i think uh you know in the past there was discussion of settlement and now i know the rays have changed their mind and they want us to rebuild it uh i think that uh any discussion we have on actually expending funds to uh do the reconstruction of it has to include uh what the potential for a settlement looks like with the rays in order to uh not uh do something that on its face does appear to be wasteful rebuilding a building that's life is not very long and so um again not about today just wanted to make sure everybody understood where i was at still concerning this issue um i appreciate uh that last question to councilmember givens about uh the necessity i mean if there's a different path forward that you're interested in i'd love to hear it um but i see the reason why administrations presented this to us so i understand and i'm uh uh ready to um make sure that we're meeting our legal obligation i don't want to get us in trouble either so thank you councilmember fix sanders thank you so much and um i appreciate everyone's feedback and concern and we've had the same concern about spending additional dollars not um having the t the detail to um support that but i will tell you as someone that is sitting here trying to rehab a home um and understanding that the process i thought would take six months to a year is now rolling into the third year and every time we go to do something different with the the permitting or the the construction insurance there's something different you know there are different dollars there and when we talk about the design phase some things that we had not planned to change has to change so i think i'm looking at a bigger picture on this um and i'm still in the same place as to not trying to forethink what may happen because we did not know we would be in this situation when we approved it the first time and i'm still in the same place that regardless of what we do with this stadium there is still a open door for us to move forward as a city to benefit from the original trap should that be an option as well as staying with the same conversation and requirement of us having to meet the terms of the last agreement um so i wish i had a detail as to how long it would take me to get this house done that we're working on with all the details but that just hasn't happened um to this this point so i think that's where um i am being diligent in understanding um some of these things that are coming up now i was one of the first ones to say we're not putting any more money into this um that we're going to go ahead we've met our obligations we've done what we said we're going to do but again um being into the situation um i i i get it but again i i do agree that having additional information as much as can be provided uh would be a great selling point moving forward but we do have to get this done thank you chair thank you councilmember harding thank you for your time and your presentation bro uh the the repairs that we're doing does this alter what we had looked at pre-storm nothing happened does this change the the math on the useful life of the building is it the structure is fine but the roof was really what we were worried about or or is this still are we still on the same path that we were before we're still on the same path we're not um altering uh structurally or extending the life of the building we're actually you know as we start looking at the details and start packaging that work i mean we're all cognizant that this is uh you know potentially you know has a finite life um but the the roof for example um you know there's really no way to not get the roof it's got to it's got to be designed for the current wind loads uh so it's going to be a robust system um you know we have not taken the approach that we we've got to do things to extend the life of the building it's just put it back as you know in order to play baseball in order to accomplish what we need to do to honor our agreements the the as options unfold and change and you may not be prepared for this question today but what what is the the useful life of the of the building where are we at in its life cycle uh it's a great question i'm sure we can get you an answer uh we'll we'll take a look take a dive into that and try to give you an answer thanks again thank you chair thank you council all right vice chair Hanowitz thank you chair well thank you for the presentation um i think everyone knows where i stood on the issue of the tropicana field from the beginning with other council members when there were large asks in terms of appropriating a lot of money at the front without knowing and having clarity um and with a lot of unknowns um there's still a lot of unknowns but the reality is we will find out much more come i think into the end of march and we'll have more clarity today the ask isn't so large obviously we have to do this um there's not a legal requirement per se in terms of timing but obviously we need to diligently pursue um these repairs and it's just not a big ask what i ask of you and and i think all council members want this is to make sure that you advise of any surprises that you find out in the process and i know that you've been doing that but you know we got a schedule here it's not a hard schedule obviously and things may come up and things may change and i think we just kind of need to make sure once you're doing this work whether it's you all henness whoever is doing it as things change to let us know but right now there are no new surprises this is as expected is is what's happening right now pretty much uh yeah this is the process that we need to have in order to bring these answers to all these questions i mean it is us diligently pursuing what we need to do i understand that in terms of reports that you get make sure that you just share that with council in terms of the reports you get that have um the specifics in terms of the work that they uncover that need to be done and all that that's all i have so with that i i will support but i have the same concerns that other council members have expressed thank you thank you okay so i'm gonna try not to belabor but i just want to make sure i'm seeing this the way i i think i'm seeing it this essentially creates the list and the cost of everything that needs to be done outside of the roof to bring the building back to essentially back to the way it was before it re it's irrelevant whether it's necessary for baseball or not to play home games this will give us that list and the cost then the next decision will be what goes on to the next list that we have to do to play home games and that would be the next decision for us correct and that second i know that was really like that was big time kindergartner and that's what we're going to bring back in turn we're not going to go through an effort of pricing and bringing getting bids for work other than what's on right you just said your second list that's that's what we're focusing on and we'll have all the support for that and we'll have the details of it um but we've we've got to go through this effort i mean it's going to be a very uh intense couple of months yeah i i just wanted to understand because twofold one i want to i want to know that i want to know that entire list i think that's important for us and i think it's important on two fronts one because then we can separate what it is that we need to do to uphold our end of the use agreement and also we can have a relevant conversation because i agree with council member floyd if we if we want to try to go that route we still are going to need to know everything that's on that list and i think that that was the the point that i really wanted to make that what either road that we pick upholding our end of the current use agreement and fixing it we need to know that list so we can make sure that we're picking the ones to to make sure we can play home games or if we go to a negotiation to end the use agreement and not make these repairs it's vital to know what would be the repairs necessary in order to be a part of that negotiation and so i just wanted to make sure i was seeing that clearly okay all right we've got a motion in a second seeing no other council members wishing to speak clerk please enter the open machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote pass agenda items f2 and f3 passes unanimously thank you raul okay we'll move on to f4 uh we're going to be talking about salt creek pump station project and we've got brujesh with us brujesh welcome good day council brujesh from engineering capital improvements director uh it is a pleasure to be here and discuss this project it is um i know it was presented at the call and we'll go through an update on that later on but i did put together a short presentation and also um for the benefit of some of the council members the new ones also this presentation sort of gives a little bit of history of how these projects developed and how we're progressing in the future as well so with that this is a design build project a progressive design build project because it's at an accelerated rate we're implementing this project so what you're seeing here is in the and you'll see a c in the middle of lake mcgoree this is basin c all the stormwater basins within the city are ironically labeled a through z the forefathers of the city had a great way of actually coming up with exactly 26 stormwater basins in the city so they're labeled a through z this is basin c and you can see by the sheer magnitude of the size of that basin and i've used the explanation in the past of stormwater basins are essentially little depressions in the general topography so while the topography of the surface generally flows towards lake mcgoree there are other dimples within the surface that creates floodplains and i'll go through that explanation as we continue but what i really wanted to grasp here is the sheer magnitude of that basin but also the basin boundary between each of those are probably inches inches so you take that information now and then these are the sub basins so they're about 1200 sub basins within the city these are the sub basins within this basin c again you would see that generally all of those are within there and we also go in the model into a deeper level the stormwater model and we break it down to over 12 000 basins so we understand what's going on on any individual block now as we continue on this is where the stormwater floodplains come into play so i'm going to flip a little back and forth here you would see how the stormwater basins see and that line as it flows through salt creek goes out so you can generally see that area is a center depression point the lowest point of that stormwater basin and how that outflow the system occurs so during a hundred year rain event we expect to see level of water staging within these areas during the hurricane mountain we noticed um the excessive staging in this area particularly because going back to the other um the previous slide and i'll flip back up to it quickly as i mentioned the blue line is probably inches because that's the apex of that basin so if the intensity of the rain and we got rain in the one one and one thousand year range so if the intensity of rain was so much it's basically flowing into basin sea it didn't stay in the other basins it's just trickling over into the next basin and the next basin and that's what we experienced and that's why basin c had so much impacts so it's already big enough and now it's getting impacted by all its neighbors so we noticed that the floodplains closely replicated it now the basin c project was an early deliverable in the stormwater master plan as well as the shore acres those were the two basins because we knew those general areas were problem areas we had to focus on so those were early deliveries in the stormwater master plan and because of that benefit we implemented projects and i'll get into those projects generally in a few in the next slide but i wanted to share the topography so this is the lidar data that we generated from the stormwater master plan this data is accurate within one hundredth of a foot of accuracy but what i want you to see is that repeating band so where you see salt uh salt creek as it flows out you could think of that as navd and you can hear me say navd zero because that's sea level and as it goes up the first red band to the north is 10 feet the next red band is another 10 feet the next red band is another 10 feet so you're looking at 40 feet of topography going towards lake mccorry and we noticed that as you drive down mlk in general vicinity of 22nd and 18th so that's the intensity of that flow going towards lake mccorry so generally you would see that overland flow even though you have all these basins sub-basins and micro basins the general topography flows towards that area so it's going to flow when you have that severe inundation of a one-on-one-thousand rain event now because we had that basin sea project as an early deliverable we were able to start implementing projects planning for these projects efficiently so led towards that strategic planning element so um i didn't label my alphabet in the correct direction i tried to keep it sequentially how we're planning the projects um so bartlett lake dredging which was one of the longer because we knew the permitted implications of that project and that's going to create hydraulic capacity the lake itself is um it needs judging it needs a major rehabilitation then b which is the channel cleaning because now we have to create that hydraulic capacity to get to that lake c is the pump station now i want to mention as well what we noticed during milton is the intensity and severity of the storm event we've not only um trying to push the project from a regular design build but a progressive design build but we've also expanded the scope of the project to help with the floodplain impacts and increase the size of the pumps that's the intention of that project and i'll touch on it on the next slide well after the next slide and then project d which is again another spa project the storm the basin sea delivery project the basin sea analysis identified a bypass line coming from lake magori so we know that channel b the channel that's our project b is hydraulically limited it's an existing channel there's a road on either side we can't make it any wider we can't take away that road to these residents but providing that alternate bypass will help during a severe rain event so we'll have a pump station on c and then we'll have a bypass outfall as d and again those are two projects again spa projects that we're accelerating now the ability and the i would say one of the critical elements why we try to balance how we how we develop projects and i i tend to say we use some seed money because when we're just gonna spoken a lot about this as well um is that we put um as we develop these projects we do what we call pre-applications as far as developing um preliminary design reports and spoken to a few of you all about this these preliminary design reports get us to the level that we can pursue grants and project a is a good example a three and a half million dollar project we're able to leverage both state and federal funding to fund the project project b we are again 50 grant funding and project c we're in the magnitude of you know about a third of the funding and we will continue to pursue other funding project d will also be pursuing um funding on that as well and we'll continue that approach so you'll see on a lot of our cip projects we put those initial projects in early and then design and construction in a later year because we want to start that project early try to get alternative funding sources to minimize the impacts on our residents so let's talk a little bit about this specific project now that we've kind of finished a little bit of the background um and i want to touch on that property on 18th avenue south and 4th street on the north west corner so essentially we where you see that black that blue box that's where our pump station is going to be then we'll construct that force mean for the discharge of the stormwater system across 18th avenue then up third street and discharging on the east side of the third street bridge why on the east side of the third street bridge that's where the channel widens so we don't have that hydraulic restriction on the channel flow itself but there's also another strategic reason because fourth street topography wise is where it breaks and starts flowing towards lake bergory so that's again an apex in the basins for us so where you see that gate that flood control gate that helps us now in the fact of if there's a surge or severe rain event or a high tide because rainwater is and stormwater is affected hyd i mean by the hydraulic grade line so if we do start to see that impact we could close that gate and pump so that means we mitigate the impacts of sea level rise mitigate impacts of surge and provide that ability to flow now the red area the red box that you see is where we are widening the channel bartlett lake will function essentially as a maintenance area sediment sump area where the velocity of water comes in slows down to less than two feet per second sediment falls out now it flows into that upper area which we have poor water quality in right now but because it's wider we can now have a larger area for the pump station to draw from but to continue on the project and it gave us a great opportunity right now which i'm actually i mean the team's extremely excited about is to the west of the project west of this prop that red line to the edge of the property limit which is essentially the edge of that um area we're going to turn that entire area into a depressed wetland and restore natural florida habitat and natural florida um florida vegetation by creating and expanding that floodplain we can help mitigate some of that sewage as well and some of the stormwater impacts but also creating something you really don't get to do in an open environment a green space and bringing it back to a more natural form and that will also help us with water quality so with that i will open up any questions all right sure hands thank you and thank you brujesh for um your detailed explanation um it's amazing how much information you have in your brain on the stormwater master plan which is incredible every time i see pictures and how you put it together so i appreciate that in terms of um the uh proposed uh flood control gate that is on the other end i'm just trying to understand obviously you're trying to prevent flooding in one area and you have other businesses and and homes and other things at that other area i just want to make sure does that impact anyone by where that gate is okay so here's the here's a that's such a good question because the idea that you're putting a gate up means that oh my god that water is going to come somewhere and it's going to come on my property and and i could understand it but ultimately the gate is going to be um it's the intention is not going to allow more water up the channel but in reality that's open water body at that point so that's really the tide level of tampa bay so if tampa bay goes up or down just because that gate is closed if it closed to open it has that doesn't change the impacts the joining properties and that's what i want to hear because obviously when and look i get questions on crescent lake because it's part of the stormwater system and how when you make modifications to it is it going to affect my property so you have the same issue with this and the properties once you start making modifications to the stormwater system and whether or not it's going to affect the adjacent properties yeah just because we closed that gate it does not mean if the sealer if the high tide was going to be at three foot and avd if we close the gate that does not mean it's going to change the high tide to 3.8 feet because that's tampa bay there at that point okay great thank you no thank good question thank you council member driscoll thank you um thank you for this explanation it's um it's just exciting to kind of see the evolution of this project and my favorite part is the page that shows all of the grant money that you've been able to pull in to help pay for this project so thank you for those efforts as well um at the gate there is so the new gate is that going to change or modify that bridge no because you know we've got a lot of thrill hill fans out there yes it's there's no intention to modify the bridge so um thrill hill will stay the way it is thank you thank you mr chair thank you council member fig sanders thank you for just for the presentation and we've talked about this but i could not remember once this is is ready to go and and and i pray we never have another storm like we experience but you remember the long term standing water on lake mogory between 18th south did we not have and help me understand that this implementation of this new station will help that drainage long term correct okay as long as i got a yes out of that you are absolutely and just to help clarify so all the properties along salt creek it flow into salt creek all the storm water systems flow into salt creek and then all the properties immediately adjacent and the residences um adjacent on the east side of lake mogory flow into lake mogory so you have competing flow coming through that channel so as as we open the gates at lake mogory and it's flowing into the channel then you're adding flow from all these residences on the side and that's the challenge so you're not you're not only battling the hydraulic grade line of the tailwater condition of getting to that outfall but you're also adding so it's almost like you're putting hoses and adding water along the route so you're slowing down the flow you're creating more um basically increasing your hydraulic grade line on that tailwater condition and and that that is true so what we what the intention is to do is with the bypass pump station is going to help relieve some of that impacts on the channel but the channel will have that ability to flow towards the lift the pump station on the other side so we're balancing it to get as much flow out and because of the gates we can keep that if we do see that higher tide coming in because right now the gates are lake mogory but if the gates are closer to the open water body we can control that water level within lake mogory and the channel much more efficiently because if we open the gates at lake mogory it takes minutes for that flow to start flowing down that channel and get enough drawdown but if the gate is all the way at the outfall once we see that tide change and we close it earlier it doesn't affect anything in the channel so we have more hydraulic capacity in the channel as well okay so i'm going to ask another question since i live not too far from there and definitely for the residents that board of the north side of lake mogory who we've been having that conversation for years not just a once in a lifetime occurrence are they going to see any relief from this so on the immediate north side yes and i wish i could go back to the floodplain but if you look at generally anybody within that pink area that touches lake mogory they'll see benefit from this project okay thank you thank you chair thank you uh brujesh thank you for the presentation um my really only one question um could you provide a that topography for the entire city yes i would just be interested to see that that was especially in that area that was i don't know i won't call it cool to see but i mean it's just it's very it's very informative and i think it would be helpful for all of us um to see it but thank you for the presentation and i'll say what i said in the cow uh whether it was last week or the week before i love it when a plan comes together council member driscoll so council member driscoll you want to make a motion i move approval second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item f4 passes unanimously thanks brujesh thank you council okay we're going to move on to f5 and our utility billing update with tom green and candace winter good afternoon good afternoon mr chair and city council members tom green assistant city administrator i wanted to take just a moment before we got started to introduce the members of the billing collection team who are here with ms winters we have lauren gwantner she is the manager of the billing side of the operation we have chris barnes he's our manager of field operations we also have david flintom customer support manager additionally we've got claude tankersley and john palanchar from public works and what i would like to do is turn it over to candace and have her present the information that we've shared in the backup and certainly i know there will be some conversation following this presentation thank you thank you good afternoon afternoon candace winter interim billing and collections director as you all may be aware we have been experiencing an increase in customers questioning their utility bills since hurricanes helena and milton we are here this afternoon to provide you with an update on utility billing post-hurricanes and we'll touch on the utility the utility billing review the impacts of the hurricanes on billing estimated utility bills delayed utility bills high consumption issues leaks adjustments and touch on the utility billing review committee also known as the ubrc there's approximately 103 000 utility customers here in the city of st pete they're broken up into 20 cycles slash zones within with an average of about 12 routes in each cycle we have 15 meter readers that reads about 5 000 meters every day there's an accounting technician team of eight and they build 5 000 bills every day as well we were hit with tropical storm debbie while there were no city closures due to tropical storm debbie we estimated one cycle and suspended lock-offs for one day with hurricane helene the city offices were closed for three work days and with there being over three thousand inaccessible meters customers bills were either estimated or delayed we also suspended lock-offs for five days with hurricane milton city offices were closed for five days and there being more than 10 000 inaccessible meters customers bills were once again estimated and delayed or delayed we also suspended lock-offs from october 1 to mid-january 2025 in response to the hurt to hurricanes hilton helene and milton sorry mayor welch issued an emergency waiver of late fees notices and the temporary suspension of lock-offs through early january 2025 as mentioned earlier thousands of customers bills were estimated or delayed due to city operations being closed or the meters being inaccessible such as covered by debris in cases of estimated bills there's functionality in our utility billing system to calculate the estimates using the previous three months average or an average from the same period the previous year as of this past tuesday there's a backlog of approximately 1200 customers whose bills are delayed due to the meters being inaccessible for several months as tom mentioned our billing manager lauren gawanta customer support manager david flinton and field operations manager chris barnes are all working diligently to bring those accounts current and we anticipate those to be completed within the next 60 days we are also evaluating changes to city code to potentially provide relief to those customers at the start of the fiscal year utility rates increased as a part of the city's annual adjustment this year this this year's rate change occurred between helene and milton combined with estimated billing the change may have contributed to higher than expected totals for some customers as you will notice this comparison table reflects the rate increases in the usage tiers particularly tier three and four coupled with the tier restructuring are driving up bills especially in cases where a customer has a leak on their property high consumption bills may have similar characteristics however each customer's private property issues are unique some customers did experience storm related damage that directly impacted their water service and those cut those situations are handled by a case on a case-by-case basis any customer who contacts us with questions about their higher than expected utility bill are given the same options such as leak adjustments or payment plans in the event a customer experiences a leak on their private property they may request a leak adjustment pursuant to city code section 27-6 under this section a customer may receive a water and or sewer adjustment depending on whether or not the water leaked into the sewer system we know it's a lot to read so we have included a summary of the relevant section of city code on the next two slides customers also have the ability to dispute a bill by petitioning the utility billing review committee also known as the ubrc and last i would summarize and saying by saying what a customer should do if they think their bills are too high is contact our utility accounts customer service call center monday through friday and any of our staff would be happy to explain the details of their bills and offer payment plans the other options long-term payment plans system with paying their outstanding balances that concludes our presentation okay thank you let's go to public comment please right state your name and address for the record we'll have three minutes to address counsel good evening uh my name is january leon i live at 10 15th 48 avenue northeast uh i'm here to speak on behalf of district 60. i'm the new chairman and i've been hearing about this uh issue with the bill uh mine is very high as well and uh just talking about mine uh i was charged eighteen hundred dollars for four months so when you average that from what i was using prior to that which is about 300 it does not add up uh i decided to speak here today because it's personal to me my neighbor across the street 95 years old more alone more own long always strong work twice a day she knocked on my door crying in tears her bill was 400 she lived by herself 95 years old her bill has always been lower than 100 dollars two months 400 it does not add up her husband passed away pow i'm a veteran we relate on that and multiple factor as well we both retired so we spend a lot of time talking but the point is there is something wrong it does not add up and it needs to be explained in a way that makes sense to the people so that they don't feel like you guys are just not caring about issues that they are facing she was in tears the strongest person that i know in existence was in tears on my porch that's what they're going through this is real for them eighteen hundred dollars okay all right my wife and i will we'll skip a couple of fine fine dinners whatever but for her it's more than that it's more than that and if you time that every person that is in a situation it's a big deal and you need to get fixed you need to be answered properly not to slide that fly by like an f-115 it needs to be explained with normal words and caring people are suffering district 60 people are suffering and as a chairman i'm here to state that thank you very much god is good thank you please no applause thank you councilmember driscoll thank you and um thank you to the the administration i had gotten some um some some more some real concern from residents who received um very high utility bills i also saw comments on social media um under the city's post about it and um i requested that we have this report given because i could only assume that my colleagues were hearing from people too and had concerns and um it's good for us to have these conversations out in the open there was um an article in the tampa bay times about it um in the backup material here in the memo that was sent out it gives four issues that may have impacted a customer's bill the estimated utility bills the delayed utility bills the rate increases and a leak seems like everyone who's calling with an issue because they have um like a um a four-figure water bill is being told it's the rate increases or you have a leak and then people come back and they say we do not we do not have a leak in the times article um tom green you meant it you told the reporter that there was a chance that it could also be human error or computer error so those can be reasons too and that's what i suspect because the people are you can tell what they're that how frustrated people are and it's not it doesn't seem like it's just a handful and it's not it doesn't seem to be concentrated in one part of our city either now in the backup there was it said that the estimates that were done were calculated by the navline system which has been spoken of as being very antiquated and and we are in the process of doing that upgrade would it be possible that this system really got it wrong i will i will i will say that we have estimated bills even in other times and it's just the magnitude of it being the back-to-back storms so there were thousands of customers whose bills were estimated by the system and it is navline is antiquated it's um the billing estimate is complicated um and there's no manual intervention so it's a system that did that yeah and for some customers if i can expand on it for some customers uh the time period that was used they could have had a leak and there's no way to know they could have it could have been a period the prior three months could have had a leak but this that's the con that is the consumption that's registered in the system so the estimate would have been slightly it would have been higher yeah it's just kind of hard to imagine that this many people would have a leak that would be showing up on their water bill all at once i can't get there if i could address that council member i i think one thing that um that you bring up that is a good point is that uh there's a lot of focus on on leaks and repairs and i think part of that is because of some of the stringency in our city code um and some of the flexibility or lack of flexibility really that we have administratively to deal with unusual or abnormal circumstances so there was a there was a portion in in miss winter's slide about taking some look at the city code at some potential changes uh some things we might be able to do to have more flexibility and i think one of the reasons that the customer service agents are are so focused on the leaks is because the the remedy here is in the city code very limited to leaks which are repaired and under the circumstances that we've had with the storms and some other issues that's really not broad enough to cover uh the scope of what appears to be happening here and so you know that's what we're we're really focused on that as well right so long term i would like to see that changed i'm glad we've identified an opportunity for an amendment that would improve the situation in the future um so it sounds like you guys are working on that and maybe the city attorney's office is involved and we'll be seeing that coming straight to i would like that to be resolved quickly so do you think it will come straight to council um yeah i think we would prefer to go to a committee or a cow and have a discussion with city council and i know i don't want to speak for the city attorney's office we're still researching a lot of things but it would be our hope that you know potentially this could be retroactive so not only could it potentially address going forward issues but it could potentially give us an opportunity to look back but we're still looking at that so i don't want to get too far out in front of that issue right now right and um it's great if it is retroactive but in the meantime we'll have people who are getting their water shut off so how do we fix that part yeah i mean do we put it do we put a freeze on this right now do we put a freedom lock offs until we get this ordinance passed and then make that retroactive and that's going to make things right for the people who are begging us for help right now and for some mercy and you know many of them haven't even been living in their homes so i we can all put ourselves in these shoes and say yeah i'd be freaking out too absolutely and we can help and we can we can do that today i i totally agree with you i i can put myself in their shoes and i would be freaking out as well if i got a very unusual bill so i certainly understand that um you know some of the things we can do is we can look at the lock offs we can do that administratively we're also considering pushing the ubc hearing uh because we wouldn't want somebody to come to a ubc hearing and get caught up in this leak and leak repair issue when maybe we're going to look at some ordinance changes so we're trying to work through some options uh to give us some time to look at these potential code changes thank you and in the meantime if people do suspect that there is a leak we should be very proactive in encouraging people to um to check for that is there a way is there a way to i'm wondering if that these leaks they are probably going to be storm related right because of this timing it's possible it's that i then maybe that's hypothetical i'm just wondering if there is a program that we can quickly put in place to help people identify leaks um with i mean how much does it cost to have somebody to come out and do all of that that a few hundred bucks okay you know what it's that gets added to the cost of this high utility bill so what can we do for people right now and then that code long term yeah one of the things that we're you know i don't think every circumstance is going to be the same but you know one of the things that we've seen is that when you do have surge it can actually disconnect some of the water utilities right so a person may have had a leak based on storm surge that they weren't even aware of one of the things that we've seen in other communities um is laundry machines could be coming disconnected from the water source the person has evacuated maybe they don't come back for three weeks they may not be aware that that you know that they're losing water there so in in our current city code it's very difficult to address circumstances like that and that's why we really need to dig into our city code and see if we can provide some more flexibility here i think it would be um and and if you need us to make a motion vote on something whatever i i need some reassurance that we're going to get people some help right away while we're working on that long-term fix and i i i like that um customers are being encouraged to at least pay what they normally pay and i i don't i don't know what that needs to look like but i i think if we because if we if we put a freeze on it we know that we might have some some people who have trouble later on catching up so i'm going to leave it to you all but i don't want anyone's water to get cut off because they owe two thousand dollars when they should owe 200 okay i believe mr green and i hear you thank you for that just going back to your other question i think mr green spoke to uh the council council um coordinator miss ullman and i think maybe at the end of february we could sneak onto that cal um and have a discussion there so maybe if there was a motion from city council today to do that we would we would like to do that yes i think that would be fantastic and i i really would like a commitment from the administration today that we're not going to take anyone's water away while we figure this out and i know i've gone over my time so i will leave it at that with your comments and i will uh thank you very much for the generosity mr chair thank you uh council member gabbard it's okay we have one more public comment oh yes please we'll go we'll go to public comment real quickly and then come back to council member gabbard please okay um lindsay i'm going to allow uh enter you into the meeting um when i enter you in the meeting please unmute yourself state your name and address for the record and you'll have three minutes to address city council go ahead good afternoon i am lindsay anderson my address is 238 northwest lincoln circle north um i'm the prior resident of snell isle and am now in fossil park um i am a disabled veteran who is contacting you guys between doctor's appointments today and i apologize for not showing earlier um that is my reasoning for that however i've been trying to contact folks um including the ubrc and all of the things that they tell us to contact since september before these storms i have had excessive bills i have contacted the commissioners mike harding's office was the only one that responded to us excuse me and replied that we attend this meeting today um again i'm attending between doctor's appointments so i may be called here any moment but i'm a one person disabled household in a 900 square foot home um there's no way i'm using 3900 gallons a month and i was told two different stories um within the first couple of months and then stories you know after that but the first two were that these were estimated after the storms again my first successive bill was in september for which half the month i was not even home i did not move into this home until then and i had again moved from snow isle to this area um we have proven that there is no leak we send pictures of any and all repairs to which we only found a toilet handle that needed to be done um there was no leak we sent screenshots and pictures of the water meters and the location with them without the water running as a video again we've contacted commissioners city council member we put in through the ubrc the only adjustment we were given on a nearly thousand dollar bill um was 38.94 and we were told not only by ubrc but one of the very rude and unprofessional customer complaint uh service representatives that they would not be making this right and that that would be the only adjustment we would receive moving forward um on your slide miss winters i saw that we are able to get up to three adjustments so stories continue to change and we also were told that you know not only were we estimated but the second story was that oh no miss anderson we've been out to your property really because i have cameras and no one's been to my property at all and i have that as evidence if needed as well please someone help us we need allocated funds to repair infrastructure before we're concerned about other matters bringing people to the city that's my opinion like i said as a retired vet i'm aware that taxpayers dollars need to bring folks to the city and we need money for jobs and things of that nature but we also need to take care of those of us that are here born and raised and can't afford these bills i'm on a retired pension a very very limited budget and can barely pay this i will be forced out of my home if these continue and to add to that i have not been offered any assistance plan and several shut off um notices have been sent to me even when i pay what should have been the bill on this and my thank you ma'am thank you okay we'll go to council member gabbert thank you chair um and thank you for the report and i was glad to see this added to the agenda thank you council member driscoll um for weeks now um my legislative aide kim and i have been monitoring countless i mean i've got pages and pages here in front of me of our residents specifically in the riviera bay area who many of them are no longer in their homes who have been crying out for this help and i want to thank david flintom because he has definitely um kind of held our hand through a lot of this he's done a great job at providing us information and trying to help people where we can but to your point there's a lot we can't do right now and so i'm very concerned about delaying any further than we have to further conversation about changing our code to give us that flexibility that we need um so chair i mean if there is a way to have an earlier meeting than i think the 27th you said um i think that we need to do that because we need to get to the bottom of whatever code changes need to be made to bring relief for people now um this cannot delay any longer and um i do have some questions but i really want to talk about the process forward first because i mean i just think that there's just too much riding on on financial implications for people for us to sit and wait on a meeting later on this month uh janie and i looked at the calendar earlier and i'm happy to look at it again if we get a break before public hearings um i think we were hoping for february 20th but if we could do something um if staff were ready beforehand but the the meeting janie and i were looking at trying to move around was february 20th uh if that was okay with you council member well we'll make that work um you know and certainly i i would be open as long as procedurally it was okay is to have that cow and then we could bring it right back up yeah i mean that that would be preferable because we have a council meeting that same day um because that's the other piece of it like we make code changes that can actually give assistance to our residents but then we have to go through our process of actually implementing code and so there's another delay there so um i i support that uh legal i'm sorry jackie you're you're over there sorry um so i would make a motion that we refer this conversation to a committee of the whole at the earliest possible date okay um so two things yes so i would say typically the the way that the manual reads this is your manual so you can supersede it if you wanted to those types of referrals are normally through a new business item rather than a motion on the dais i understand if it's amenable to council and you'd rather all make the motion and dispense with the new business item and you want to include that in your motion that you're waiving the manual and just doing a motion to refer it that would be fine so you can do it that way and then from a timing standpoint i don't see any reason why you couldn't first read it on the 20th but i'm not sure how there still has to be the period of time for noticing in the public hearing right so we'll look at that and we could advise you is there any benefit to first reading it on the 20th or is that does not that not get you that far my guess is it's still going to help i think so yeah it because based on your calendar you should still i mean at a minimum you should still be saving a week or so so i don't think there's any impediment to it being on the agenda okay um for first reading we'll think about whether or not we should just put something on the agenda as a placeholder and then if you change it in the committee we could swap it out on the dais so we'll look at the different options and work with the chair and administration to make it as quick as possible so i need to amend my motion to waive standard council procedures and to move this item to a committee of the whole at the soonest available date yes second okay okay i think the week here is important because the week after two weeks after that would be spring break i know it'll be another right after that we only have so many council meetings to get the actual work done but we have got to go through the committee process first so okay so that is the motion do you want to vote on the motion before i finish my questions no go ahead okay so um in the memo that we were provided um and some of this might get to where council member driscoll was as well with shutoffs continuing to put extra fees and late payments and all of that we have to stop that right now like i don't know what we have to do if there's another motion that comes after this motion that has to cease right now before we so we can figure this out um so i want to get there and have that conversation here for my colleagues about that i want to understand um so it says here on the delayed utility bills that we have this huge backlog that we're working through and that's taking 60 to 90 days it says that the last sentence in the interim we are encouraging customers to make an average monthly payment encouraging customers to make an average monthly payment so what i'm hearing is that we're not sending them a bill for their average monthly payment so that they can continue to pay that and not be gathering this huge bill we're just encouraging please tell me how that works i i don't understand that in practicality with people that aren't even in their homes and we're encouraging them to make a monthly payment so that they don't have a huge payment at some point i think it it's it's we're wanting to help our customers in every possible scenario in every possible way one way is if you get a 150 bill every every month for water storm water sanitation all the things that are on the bill if you make that payment it's not a big hit it's not a big hit to you that's your normal payment what we're trying to prevent is when we do work through all those that are look out of line we don't want them to have sticker shock so if they could continue to do that but we're not billing them for that and that's my concern is that these bills are just adding up so and and ultimately and not to interrupt a council member but ultimately what we would do with that customer is we would work with them to build a plan that would soften that so let's say it's three months we would extend that over six months or nine months or 12 months or however long so it is manageable for them once they do get those bills with no late fees um currently there there are no late fields because we haven't built them in the scenario that you're just okay all right um and then on number four it says leak on private property or leak on city side have we done all the due diligence we need to do to ensure that that is not one of like that is not the reason that we don't have some like pinhole leaks in places that we don't know about once again from surge are are we sure that that is not part of our problem yes and that actually is a typo it should not have said on the city side because the meter is the difference between the city side and the and the customer side so if the water's gone through the meter it is by definition no longer on the city side so that should not have been said that it's a big typo it's a big typo yes it is and i don't know how it got in there okay all right um we have a motion chair i'll turn it back thank you okay uh any council members wishing to speak on the motion otherwise we'll take up the motion and then go back to general questions all right we've got a motion a second clerk please uh open machine for voting okay council members please enter your votes seeing as all present members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to refer um the motion to waive uh standard council procedure and refer this issue to the earliest available cal passes unanimously thank you okay uh we'll go go back to council member comments and and certainly i i don't want to take anybody's time away but now we do now we are going to have this conversation in cal too so let's just let's remember that as we're making comments okay uh and council member gabbard you're all good you've got some more questions i want to make sure that we don't leave without having a conversation about today is extending like the pause of shutouts like we need to talk about that so if somebody else has that on their mind i'm good to pause but if it's not mentioned i'm coming back to it okay sounds good thank you council member floyd thank you um i am eager to talk about that but i have a couple of things that i want to ask first uh first can you give us any idea of how many people have disputed their bills so far just how widespread this issue is because right now i'm only hearing anecdotes uh i i don't have a really good estimate on that as we're standing here right now we do know that we as uh candace mentioned that there were thousands of bills that were estimated um and we're working with each of them as they you know uh contact us when it's when they see that it's out of line so but and and i'm sorry to interrupt councilmember but but you know this is what we do all day every day i mean things happen in in utility billing and so um it's it's higher than than normal but i mean it's not uh i mean so we're this is what happens you know all the time but not not on this level of magnitude yeah well i i just it would be helpful for us if we had an idea as to what the level of magnitude was one and two your comment about how many bills are being estimated sort of implies that like that's a big source of the problem and uh so that i guess i'll let that lead me into my next thing which is like and maybe you don't have the information it would be very good and helpful to have but of those that have been disputed how many have been solved and is it just a scatter shot that of the reasons why we've uh seen increases or is it or is there any pattern at all uh just thinking about what the problems are i mean if any information provided along those lines are helpful um and i it really is going to depend on a couple of things of you know your your term was how many of these have been solved certainly we have entered into payment plans with customers we've had customers fix leaks we've had customers you know go through the process and get adjustments um and and but right now i couldn't tell you as we're standing right here how many that have been processed um well you know we could certainly provide that but i don't also don't know how many of those are storm related versus normal course of business so i mean they're all they would all be kind of in that same basket i i understand what you're getting at but i'm and not bud i understand what you're getting at i'm asking this because we've had a lot of people reach out to us uh but you know myself personally cannot say how systemic the problem is right now and i think in order to solve it my mind immediately goes to making sure i can completely wrap my head around it and i'm not able to do that right this second um so you know anything y'all can do to work towards that uh would be beneficial for i think everyone involved um you know a lot of my questions stemmed from you know the assumption that we might have some information like that so i'll move on to uh you know giving administration another chance to talk about what the last two council members brought up which is how we can leave this meeting today knowing that we're not going to be charging late fees or shutting people's water off yeah thank you council member and i appreciate that and uh we are willing to agree to that moving forward um to to not be shutting off at this time while we work through this issue in the late fee so we'll we'll address that as necessary um if we need to do that through memo or through the current state of emergency we'll work with the city attorney's office on those those different items but uh we commit to that today so okay all right uh thank you for that um thank you to the other council members who pushed for uh there to be uh code changes on this this is an issue that's come up really frequently for us right now but it's something that i have poked at as long as i've been here i've i've had a lot of customers uh say customers over the last few years i've had a handful of residents reaching out about just unexplained utility bills and anything we can do if we can use this as a catalyst to shore up our system uh make things firmer i will go as deep into the problem as possible and i'm sure everyone else here is willing to as well uh to make sure that this doesn't happen again for a storm where we have programs in place or uh policies in place to catch it if it does and to make sure that this is just a smoother process as a whole even when there's not a storm because i've experienced bumps with it as well um i'll leave it there chair i look forward to further discussion and committee thanks thank you councilmember floyd councilmember fix sanders thank you um i did throughout the presentation write down quite a few notes and i know this is going to cal but i'm still going to take the opportunity to put this on record today so when we talk about um the residents the one thing that i've heard as recently as text this morning that no one has addressed is when we have our residents call every single person that i've talked to has talked about the disrespect and very poor customer service very that's something that's immediate that's something that has to be addressed right away that's something that doesn't cost a whole lot of money or a vote before city council to adjust that's first and foremost is customer service bad attitude the second question i have on here i also wanted to know the number of complaints and that number how many were were increased as well as if we've if we're tracking whether or not they're residential or commercial and the reason why i'm asking the difference because if we're having entrepreneurs threaten the board it's bad enough you get your water cut off you know immediately as the city what we would do with the commercial property whose water is cut off now that's their income and they wouldn't be able to work on a payment plan because they have no income so i also wanted to find out what those numbers look like um that were impacted by this increase um the next one i had is in the presentation the first thing i had was when um customers call the first thing we do is we talk about leak adjustments and payment plan i did not hear in that presentation one time that that said well let's try to troubleshoot generally sometimes when you you call let's troubleshoot this because if i have to pay a plumber i got a 1200 water bill and now i got to spend another five six hundred to get i couldn't imagine the seniors in my family having to come up with those kind of dollars on the drop of a hat like that i just can't see it and and the the other thing that i have on here is what if we really did make the mistake what if it really is on us that is not a my bad moment that is just not a my bad moment but i didn't hear anywhere in the presentation where it says we're going to come and investigate because you take that that particular case they had a 200 bill this month they got a thousand dollar bill this month yes it may have been a leak it may have been a surge but i didn't see in the presentation when it said we actually took a corrective step in wanting to work with those homeowners i didn't hear that and if i did i apologize but i don't think i did then also on my note i said i wrote down it says when they called to dispute a bill i saw a whole lot of steps they have to take a whole lot of steps to dispute something that may very well be our fault so now you're aggravated with having to go to work ask for overtime pay a larger bill and then come and sit in our city department to dispute a bill who has time for that who has time for that none of us can take time off like that especially the ones that are impacted the most right because as council members i said this before we're going to get a paycheck come hell out of water hurricane natural disaster but everyone doesn't have that leniency with their employers to be able to take that type of time so that was my other note um i think that is it but i was also going to say that i did not want to have our residents have their utilities cut off and once we found whose fault it is or whatever the cause for the increase was the new um meters that were that have been referred to i really think anytime you make a change anytime you make a change there's a whole lot of window of opportunity for mistakes and we need to own it we need to own it we just need to own it there is a possibility that the mistake is on our end whenever you transition equipment so i would definitely support halting disconnects and we've already been clarified that there will be no late fees um so whatever that next step is i i really do appreciate the administration and your agreeance about the no disconnect and the move the moves that we need to do to help our residents move forward thank you chair thank you chair if i could just for informational purposes on a couple items just want to reiterate um you know you mentioned the focus on leaks and repairs and adjustments and and we agree with you and i think the reason again that the staff goes towards that is because we're handcuffed and very limited with the current ordinance and that's what we want to work on the other thing and i wanted to talk about as you mentioned the meters and we haven't gotten into it a lot today because we didn't feel like it was necessary to to get into to that so much today but um the team is working with folks they're pulling the meters they're looking at the water usage one of the things about the digital meters is they're providing much much more information uh than we've ever had before uh so you're seeing when that water's passing through um i'm not an engineer but i i believe that the meters are also uh better at detecting usage than the previous meters were they're detecting low amounts of usage where maybe we weren't before and they're teeth they're they're catching maximum amounts of usage where maybe we weren't before and so those are you know with the digital meters uh the accuracy is even better so just just wanted to touch on a couple of those comments thank you vice chair hanowitz thank you well a lot has been covered um but i want to go back to the storms you know as a city um we needed to fix our water system we needed to fix last lots of leaks after the storm but you know what we have the resources and i think a lot of the frustration out there is that these storms happen but somehow in our system in our government in our building nobody thought about well what's happening with the customers and it doesn't seem like there was a proactive response to high billing out of norm billing there wasn't a process in place to capture for instance customers and we may not have the system to do it but we heard customers come here today saying they had a 1500 bill clearly out of the norm this is after a storm this is not you know and i understand you're going to get some that are that weren't from the storm but my point is here we have and by the way the first time we received the memo on this was january 29th of this year this has come to a head so when you get frustration from customers this is a build up this is not a day thing this is not a month thing now we're at a point where we're at present crescendo and it's not at city council and we're dealing with all this so going back to our system and how is it that there was no manual evaluation or a way at some point you should have been on notice like okay this is a lot more complaints than normal and how is it can i'm sorry and how is it can can we identify these people that have these issues immediately thank you for the question and partially i don't agree with the supposition that we didn't be proactive we identified some 2400 bills that looked out of line and embargoed those certainly the response could have been sooner and i take full you know responsibility for that that's ultimately my responsibility but i i do believe that we did take action to grab those that we saw coming out of the system that looked out of line and held them and embargoed them as we worked through them so i think we did it could have been quicker absolutely um you know and and the other part of it is you know you mentioned we're recovering from the storm across the organization so there's a lot happening in a lot of different areas i don't doubt that tom and this is not to place blame on one person necessarily this is a governmental system issue and when customers deal with us it's it's not just one person it's something went wrong whether it's the computer that didn't catch it the the computer system that decided this person had bills that were 300 we're gonna estimate the monthly bill at 1500 which makes no sense to me um they're on auto pay which makes matters worse because then it gets taken out of their their account and they may be on fixed income so it's just a a lot of factors that just make a situation worse and so i i guess where i'm at is you know we only found out about the the intensity of this issue january 29th in terms of a memo and what was going on okay we've had complaints from customers but then going to some council members frustrations we just don't know how systemic it is and we don't want to make decisions and rely on just anecdotal evidence we we need a bigger picture so so i'm just my my ask is the same as other council members to really have an understanding of a number one how systemic it is but besides the fact that we're gonna we're gonna look at ways to fix the ordinances which i i'm sure we're going to really find out how we can identify when things are out of whack in our system there has to be a way a way i mean we live in a world of ai and i would hope that there is some way to identify okay there's something going on and there may be a lot of customers with their own leaks that's fine that may be the situation but to be more proactive what i meant to say is for us to be able to be more proactive in the future to kind of take care of it and if there is a way we can have a conversation about that and and if i could just add in there and i think council member driscoll may have mentioned earlier you know we are transitioning to tyler tyler technologies will be you know better interface for our customers certainly more user friendly for our staff and our team uh in the billing collection department as well as in permitting and codes and so in other areas i know that's that's no comfort for our customers right now nor for our team right now but it is something that i i believe probably in a year we'll have that implemented fully implemented in our our system and it will have some of the features and functionality that you're referencing and the only thing i would ask is from from now to that time of implementation is the same thing i asked for from from now to the time of implementation of of of of projects to our sewer is that there has to be maybe something in place that we could do in the meantime you know to take us from point a to whatever point is there something that can be done in the meantime within our system as we have it to kind of make yeah and i'm sure you are i'm sure you are so so that's that's all i ask well thank you very much councilmember gibbons thank you mr chair i just want to go on record uh note that i too support uh the pause and shutoffs and also waiving fees um i do have a question though how many people do we have currently working as call center agents in our customer service call center 17 17 gotcha uh i too received a number of calls from constituents just frustrated uh you know just disgruntled with the process um from hold time to uh just customer engagement so i would ask that we consider maybe reassessing how we deal with customers and also maybe even look at possibly hiring some more people um if our our call center agents are overworked um so let's look at that as well um just also wanted to go on record and note too um we mentioned that there were i think 1200 bills you said that we were backlogged um are we looking at hiring more accounting technicians to assist with pushing those out what's the plan there because i think you mentioned 60 days and i'm just thinking in 60 days we could have hired two or three more technicians that could have been onboarded and trained the training would take longer than 60 days number one but um the staff is working lauren and her team they're working um on overtime to get those pushed out um yeah yeah i forgot uh so in addition to lauren and her team we've also had um several other team members within our department that have we've pulled off assignments to assist in that as well that's okay and i just want to you know i don't want to prolong the discussion but i think we should do everything we can um administrator girdus i hope you'll communicate this with the mayor um to helping people um let's be empathetic i had a call to from a senior citizen a woman who's on a fixed income and she was not satisfied with the credit that wasn't good enough when her account was in the negative um and this is a woman who is she doesn't have any other family that she can depend on to help pay for bills and put food on her stomach um so i just want to make sure that we're as empathetic as we can possibly be when it comes to making recommendations on how we're going to help customers who are dealing with this tragic situation so thank you thank you councilmember harding thank you chair mr wonders thank you thank you for being here that's a tough spot standing right now my uh my my comments though uh or my comment i'll i'll say everything else for the cows limited specifically to marketing um i'm in looking through the price increases uh that we went through the the it was substantial i think it's all for good reason i think that uh that that the the what claude has presented um from public works and what we need to do i think that this is a this is the the path that we need to go down to catch up to to uh what we didn't do in the 70s and 80s quite frankly um but these these increases are are pretty monumental uh the first tier is 35 percent the second tier is 42 percent and then we get much bigger after that over a hundred percent and um and it strikes me that that the complaints that council has gotten and that mrs winters have got has received are two months after the price increase went into effect it's not um it's not in june these decisions started over a year ago and they were solidified i'm guessing sometime in the june july august time frame and uh and we have a we have a duty it struck me as a monopoly um to to inform the citizenry they don't have a choice they buy water from us period and um and so it we didn't offer the citizenry we didn't do we didn't do a good enough job informing the citizenry that hey listen you have 90 days until your water bill is going to go up x or the multiple is going to go up x or what you can do is take your current water bill and use these rates to see what it might look like at this time next year and um and i think it's a it's a it's a bigger it's a bigger discussion but i think that that we have to look at how do we better inform folks that uh that that we serve that this is coming to you regardless we we should have been inundated with complaints in june of last year in july of last year um i'd like to talk about that further at some point thank you chair if i could just add to that because i think that's a good point and i think what we found is is one of the unintended consequences of of the tiered system is that in a lot of these cases um there is actual meter evidence of usage right so maybe you can't find a leak maybe you're not aware of the leak maybe you know the usage didn't happen but you know you start getting into usage of 30 40 000 gallons in a month then you start getting into that higher tier and then you say well how's the bill 1500 or four thousand dollars well you're running 30 000 gallons at the highest tier that was never the intended of what we tried to do it was supposed to be a household or a business that was using that amount of water on a regular basis um and so that's another reason why the the handcuffs that were under with the with the code related to leaks and repairs is problematic uh because we're running into situations like this thank you uh councilman hardin all finished yes okay thank you um i just have a couple of um questions so when a customer calls in a resident calls in and they're they've received one of you know what they feel is a unjust bill we'll just call it and we give them these options and i know that we're going to look at widening the options that are creating more options here in a few weeks is is that kind of the end of the conversation we give them those over the phone what happens then prior to the options they uh and speak to uh council council member um fake sanders uh the csrs go through a checklist with them have you checked your toilet they go through all these series of questions before they get to that to that point um and then they are offered and now david can add in for me hi good afternoon mr chair members um yeah so david flinnem i oversee the customer service call center for utility accounts and obviously a lot of your constituents are our customers and we're the ones that are talking to them when they get that high bill we start with a lot of times if they've got that spike in consumption we start with well let's check the meter we send someone out we don't go on the private property but we'll go look at the meter make sure it was read correctly we have found instances where we read the meter incorrectly so we can make those adjustments to the customer's bill but if it looks like the meter is functioning and it looks like the read is accurate then we start to say well what could have happened on your private property could it have been something and again we throw around the word leak and a lot of customers tend to think of a leak as like a spouting fountain of water in the yard but it could be something as innocuous as the little rubber flapper in the bottom of your toilet tank if it's not seated and you know my mom used to say jiggle the handle and you know that's how you fix that leak is making sure that no more water runs down into the sewer system and when it is a toilet and it usually is a toilet those are the most offensive appliances in your water system unfortunately again we've talked about how our hands are a little bit tied by city code if you fix that toilet leak and a lot of customers do they'll get an adjustment to the water but not the sewer charges because the water did go into the sewer system so again looking at things long term like how we can adjust city code how we can be given more tools to respond to those customers requests fine finally if it looks like the customer regardless of whether they get a leak adjustment or not or some adjustment to their bill we have very liberal long-term payment plans my csrs can approve six months supervisors 12 i've done up to four years for customers if they have that much money uh to spend to to pay on their on their bill after the adjustments so we we try to work with them as much as we can but again oftentimes we just need the tools to be able to do that yeah i appreciate the explanation i'm and i'm glad you went through that thank you i i was more talking about okay so i call in i i i want to talk about my water bill you walk me through all the troubleshooting um you you talk about my options right whether it's a payment plan it's ubrc it's an adjustment somebody's going to come out and look at my my my question really is about okay somebody comes and looks at my my we're going to come out we're going to look at your meter okay and i'm not home when you look at my meter and you identify that everything is working well with my meter do i get notified that everything looks good with my meter like this i want to talk about the touch points of like okay i showed up you weren't home i left something at your door i got an email i you get something in my next in the next bill like those are the things that i feel like are opportunities for us to look at this is this is what i'm getting at and we do and and yeah and i want to talk about them but also i want to identify if there are opportunities once i got off the phone did i get a follow-up email with all the things that are about to happen that seems super simple to me right where it's like one more thing yeah i just told them to you on the phone but i'm pissed off and i forgot them 30 seconds as soon as i got off the phone right and i don't realize you're going to come out and look at the meter i've got an opportunity to have an appeal i can go to ubrc right i just i want to make sure we're taking every step we can i know that was a lot sorry so let me pause and go ahead no you're fine um no what i wanted to share was when they do come out to the meter and they do find some issue there is a hang tag that is left for the customer it either says everything's working or we found there to be high consumption the meter's right yeah come on chris chris barnes our field ops manager so we do have the work orders that often go out automatically when we detect high consumption before we even issue the bill and what my team does is they go they compare the read to the read that we we got from the meter reader uh confirm that it's correct if it's not correct we fix it uh if it is correct we look at the meter we make sure there's not a leak at the meter itself we look for running water on private property which is very often what the case is although with intermittent leaks sometimes there won't be just because there's not running water in the moment doesn't mean there was not or is not a leak and then what my team usually does is they'll knock on the door if someone's available they try to talk to them sometimes it's easier than others depending on you know how welcoming the front door of the house can look uh but if they can't knock and talk then they'll leave a blue door hanger that says you know we were here today this was the read uh this is whether we detected running water or not this is how much water you've consumed in the past uh however you know the period between when we got the read and when we went out which can often indicate whether it's an ongoing problem and i know a lot of my team are very experienced very veterans they care about what they do and if there's a customer there i mean my team will take a customer out to the meter show them the meter show them how you see how the you know flow indicators running things like that uh we really by the way i've gotten great feedback about meter team so i've gotten great feedback about the meter team that's out and about that i'm glad to hear we expect a lot while we're on the subject thank you yeah but we do try to be very proactive in that sense that we go out we look at the meter and we do what we can to communicate what's going on but it can be very frustrating for customers because very often there's not an immediate source of what did happen and the fact that it is a mystery is very difficult for some people to accept sometimes okay so i just because i don't want to belabor the point and we're going to have a cow i'm my guess is you have this flow charted somehow some way if you could share that with us during this cow on the touch points on okay we fixed the problem it goes here we didn't fix the problem it goes here i think that would be super helpful for us to see we do okay that would be awesome if you could share that so i don't have to keep going down that road we um so i i heard two different numbers i want to make i think i heard two different numbers we embargoed 2400 bills that was at the time of the memo at the time of the memo it was like early january since then we've we've cut down at least half of them okay so now that's what's left of backlog this past tuesday yes okay what was the threshold what was the data point that we embargoed that 2400 did we just say these are just that these just look all look crazy or was there like a it was 75 above it was 150 of above what was the data point that we used to do that these are actually the customers who did not receive a bill for several months okay so with our system being limited we have to bill one bill per day for that customer so let's say that customer missed four bills so it would take us four days one day tuesday wednesday thursday absolutely we can only bill one one one bill a day for that customer um is is there a way in naval line this is kind of going back to what council member floyd was talking about is there a way to pull um i want to know every single bill that's 200 above average we can not readily available but we can probably work with dots to get something that could um i mean i think that's kind of what he was asking i don't mean to put oh he's not even here anymore sorry um but i think understanding like if we if we made it some data point we said okay here's how many we think could be impacted it's not going to be exact i think that would be i think that would be helpful okay um and last but not least i'll just i totally agree with councilmember hanowitz where like this gives us the lens i'm trying to look through here is this gives us an opportunity to look at and what we want the process to be when we implement tyler and we want to make sure that all of these things that we have now been we have now uncovered we can make sure never happen again as we implement tyler and i'm sure this will be part of the conversation going forward so again i'm not going to belabor so thank you for the over i'm going to go to councilmember fig sanders but just for me thank you for the presentation thank you for answering all of our questions i'm looking forward to spending some time with you in a couple of weeks and um and and thanks for all the information that we've asked for too because i know we just we just put some more on your shoulders so um thank you so much councilmember fig sanders thank you our chair just basically said what i was going to say um thank you i know that you're interim and we really are nice people i know but i just wanted to thank you so much for the information and also for the clarity of those next steps because they weren't in the original presentation we did an overview i i apologize thank you so much thank you so much thank you chair thank you uh councilmember gabbard i just wanted to make sure um since i said i'm gonna bring it back up do we need a motion for anything for them to but they can do it under their executive order or emergency order yes there's different ways they can do it there's there's no motion needed just wanted to follow up all right thank you you told you one go forget yeah yeah thank you absolutely all right thank you okay they're like uh just just to uh go back to the kind of beginning no f7 because we did that at cb so we're going to go straight into new business wait we're i'm sorry did i skip one i'm sorry that's my fault thanks for keeping me honest we're going to f6 resolution accepting gmp proposal we'll bring back brujesh uh good day call more gmp yes um so this is a gmp um because we have issued a permit to a developer who is conducting work in hillsborough county crossing our transmission mean and unfortunately due to the performance of work and uh i will be grateful to the water resources team plus the inspectors of observing what was being done and doing a timely stop to mitigate too much impact impacts to our water transmission means uh stop work order was issued we immediately started issuing fines and um we give we did give them the opportunity to try and rectify the situation but at this point we don't want to take too much risk again on our transmission means so we've worked with our construction manager to get out there we've coordinated with hillsborough county to stabilize the site and um this gmp is for us to do some investigation and do any remediation corrective action if needed and make sure that um we can provide service to our residents move approval second uh i'll just say claude thanks for the one-on-one this this is really helpful that was helpful understand uh to get my head around this so i just appreciate the one-on-one brujesh sorry i almost skipped you uh seeing as no other council members wishing to speak we have a motion a second could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your vote seeing off present men's present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item f6 passes unanimously okay thank you now we'll go into new business sorry about that and we'll go to g1 councilmember driscoll thank you for this item i am respectfully requesting a referral to the economic and workforce development committee although we may find that it's better suited for budget finance and taxation for discussion regarding the creation of a dedicated fund to directly assist local artists and the arts organizations that directly benefit local artists given that we are in budget discussions and this would be something that's establishing kind of a line item within the arts and cultural uh budget i will move approval for this to go to budget finance and taxation okay so you want to go to bf and t um unless the only tell you you're you're probably better off having an early conversation with it at ewd uh because of timing because of timing that and so that was the only thing that i would tell you if you want to have this conversation sooner rather than later for this year's budget you're probably i'm happy to once we've had the conversation in ewd i could add it to bf and t to send it up to council at that point because it would be a much shorter conversation i would think okay so we'll flush it out in ewd if this is approved today and then if needed it'll go to bf and t before it goes to council that's okay with you all right i'll i'll amend my motion to um to have this go to economic and workforce development committee second okay we have a motion and a second seeing no present council members wishing to speak clerk could you please enter or please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g1 passes unanimously thank you okay g2 council member driscoll thank you for this item i'm respectfully requesting a referral to the economic and workforce development committee for a discussion regarding the creation of a legacy business program to assist and protect long-standing local businesses in st petersburg and i move approval second was that were you questioning yourself second we have a motion and a second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your vote seeing as all present council members have voted clerk could you please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g2 passes unanimously with council member harding being absent thank you on to g3 council member driscoll thank you for this item i'm respectfully requesting a referral to the public services and infrastructure committee for discretion regarding collaboration with the st petersburg downtown partnership for a clean and safe program in the downtown core i move approval council member driscoll i just want to uh council member floyd i was just going to ask what is a clean and safe program um if i may um come to ps9 and find out no i'm kidding i'm kidding um so you uh some council members may be familiar with a um a suggestion or an idea floated by the downtown partnership over the last couple of years for a business improvement district oh okay um i had some reservations about that but since then our discussions have evolved we've done some really great um studying of other cities who have similar programs and um the city of nashville actually has um their the program that they do uh for their downtown is called a clean and safe program which i happily stole the name because it is it makes it pretty it makes it i believe it makes it clear what this program is intended to do okay well i uh always happy to have a conversation about something i i'll leave it there thank you thank you council member driscoll thanks for bringing this forward excited to have this conversation uh we have do we have a motion a second thank you we have a motion a second seeing no other council members wishing to speak speak clerk could you please for voting council members please enter your votes run mike run seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g3 passes unanimously thank you okay last but not least for council member driscoll g4 thank you for this item i am respectfully requesting a referral to the budget finance and taxation committee for a discussion regarding a potential child care benefit for city of st petersburg employees and i move approval okay we have a motion do we have a second second yes or no okay so we have a motion and a second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please enter open the machine council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g4 passes unanimously okay and then we'll go to g5 council member floyd thank you i am respectfully requesting a referral to the housing land use and transportation committee or other relevant committee for discussion on the pinellas sun coast transit authorities connected community bus network this is a staff request i'll move approval second we have a motion in a second seeing no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk could you please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g5 passes unanimously thank you okay we'll move on to council committee reports uh i yes uh there was a g6 mm-hmm i'm sorry g6 vice chair hanowitz that's twice today strike three you're on charge a referral to the budget finance and taxation committee for a discussion on adding the woodlawn parks courts free wiki watch designed to the wiki washi project list some of you may have no remember we had a conversation of this a while ago and mike uh jeffries have been working on it and they're ready to kind of go forward and have the discussion so i move approval second we have a motion a second seems no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your vote seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item g6 passes unanimously thank you okay now moving into council committee reports in h1 i am respectfully requesting city council approval to remove the following items from the committee of the whole referral list the historic gas plant redevelopment referred by city council and city initiated historic designation referred by charlie girdus second we have a motion in a second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item h1 passes unanimously thank you okay moving on to h2 h2 i'm respectfully requesting approval for a resolution approving the salt creek property project and approving the funding for the purchase of land for the project in the amount not to exceed 2.9 million from wiki wachi funds council member driscoll council member driscoll thank you i just want to take a moment to thank um mike aaron and brej for all of the work that you've done to bring the project across the finish line this is years in the making and um i couldn't be happier i can't wait to see what we what we do with this so thank you very much yeah all around team effort all around team effort thank you very much both the council member driscoll and and administration and all the teams okay we have a motion in a second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item h2a passes unanimously okay all right so we've gotten to the uh re the re what that's it that's what we just voted on you were trying to strike three me weren't you yeah you want me out of here all right uh we're gonna recess till 501 public hearings thank you everybody and reconvene city council move into our public hearings no we've got uh j1 2 and 3 uh joining us is how are you good to see you uh do we want a presentation for j1 2 and 3 or i'll entertain a motion for approval move approval of items j1 j2 and j3 okay okay seeing as no other council members wishing to speak we've got a motion a second on j1 two and three clerk please open the machine for voting council members please enter your votes seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the votes mr chair the motion to approve agenda items j1 j2 and j3 passes unanimously okay moving in the gabbert being absent thank you sorry about that moving into j4 uh clerk could you please read the title proposal ordinance number 606-h in ordinance amending chapter 27 article 5 relating to solid waste collection disposal etc modifying definitions and terminology removing provisions related to corrective actions taken by the city for placement of containers during permitted hours modifying requirements and limitations for private collectors providing for a six month suspension of a private collector permit under certain circumstances adding a division four related to registration of recovered materials dealers clarifying and reorganizing provisions providing for severability and providing for an effective date and this and mr um chair we do not have any cards on this one okay there is a presentation uh unless yeah yeah yeah okay good evening council chair members of council i'm bob turner the assistant director of sanitation thank you for giving me a few minutes of your time to review our ordinance revisions the vast majority of this revision in here is to address our definitions so that they mirror that of the state statute state statute dictates uh who collects solid waste and how it's disposed and we fall under that that governance the other changes uh better identify what it is that the city does as far as collection of solid waste what our responsibilities are and what those are that we allow private collectors to do the um increase in charges here are strictly for the permitting process so we have about 13 uh permitted private collectors within the city and their fees are going from 250 to 350 dollars for a permit for hauling waste the recycling we keep that modest because we try to encourage recycling we'd much rather see them reuse that material than take it to the waste to energy plant so that permit fee is is increased also but only by 25 dollars uh we've removed a lot of the old languages that was in there that's no longer pertinent we don't make the folks come in uh to do to request the permit in person anymore uh they can do that uh through an online process which is much easier um we've also done a good job of identifying what recyclable materials we actually collect there's always a question about that and we're in line with what the rest of the county is is doing at this point um and and that's really it are there any questions regarding the ordinance changes council members any questions i'll entertain a motion for approval we have approval second we have a motion a second seeing as no other council members wishing to speak clerk could you please open the machine for voting now council members please enter your votes oh yeah uh seeing as all present council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item j4 passes unanimously okay so we are going to move into our quasi-judicial item uh anybody wishing to speak must fill out a yellow card and present the card to the clerk all speakers must be sworn in prior to presenting testimony including city staff uh clerk can you please swear in the speakers on j5 said nothing but the truth clerk thank you uh clerk can you please read the title mr chair would you like me to read both of them at the same time yes thank you proposed ordinance number 762-l and ordinance amending the future land use element of the comprehensive plan for the city of st petersburg florida by changing the future land use map designation from pr-r plan redevelopment residential to pr-mu plan redevelopment mixed use providing for repeal of of conflicting ordinances and provisions thereof and providing for an effective date proposed ordinance number 797-z in orange amending the official zoning map of the city of st petersburg florida by changing the official zoning map designation for bartlett court block a lots of 10 and 11 from nt-2 neighborhood traditional to cct-1 corridor commercial traditional providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances and provisions thereof and providing for an effective date and mr chair we do have some several cars okay before we go uh into initial presentations i'm going to turn it over to legal heather thank you chair i just wanted to make a note if you remember at the prior hearing both at open forum and during the first reading there were some public comments related to this item because it is quasi judicial those must be disregarded the only record that can be considered for city council this evening is the records that were provided in the written reports and the testimony and evidence that are given tonight in the quasi judicial so i just wanted to give that guidance and with that i have nothing further thank you chair thank you okay so we'll move into initial presentations each part you'll each party will have 10 minutes for their initial presentation we'll turn it over staff welcome derek all right thank you good evening derek kilborn manager for the city's urban planning and historic preservation division uh we do have a presentation for you i know that you're going to receive a very comprehensive presentation from the applicant and the registered opponent so i've decided to try to focus a little bit more on the process here because this is a very confusing application and appeal that you are considering tonight this particular application involves several parts it involves a certificate of appropriateness for exterior modifications to what is already a designated local landmark building it is also asking for consideration to have a meeting hall and community assembly facility use and a bed and breakfast use now both the meeting hall and community assembly facility and bed and breakfast are uses that are allowed by special exception in the nt2 zoning category so these are uses that could apply directly to the development review commission today under the existing rules and be considered for approval because it is a designated local landmark because they were applying for a certificate of appropriateness for exterior modifications the community planning and preservation commission is empowered to bundle everything together and conduct one public hearing it helps streamline the process so that applicants don't have to go to two commissions and maybe have conflicting evidence or testimony presented so in this particular case the community planning and preservation commission took up consideration of the certificate of appropriateness and the proposed uses the proposed uses are considered under an umbrella that is allowed in the code called adaptive reuse now in addition to the adaptive reuse there is a third request which is a map amendment as staff started to receive public comments on this case one pattern that was very clear to us was a comment that people were opposed to the rezoning and the map amendment because they did not support the use so i wanted to be very clear up front today that the map amendment that is requested as part of this hearing is not required in order for the adaptive reuse to be approved so you could theoretically deny the map amendment but the special event space and the bed and breakfast use could still be approved so anybody that is planning to speak tonight and is opposed to the use that is proposed i just wanted to be very clear the map amendment is totally independent and does not relate to the use that is proposed and i will explain what that means um in a little bit when it went to the cppc you can see on the screen that the cppc approved the certificate of appropriateness that's done that's not part of your consideration tonight you are being asked to review the adaptive reuse and consider whether the uses will have uh impacts that warrant uh upholding the cppc decision to deny uh those uses and then if the adaptive reuses are approved by this council that would unlock then your ability to consider the map amendment and if you are inclined to approve the map amendment that would be a second decision um but again that does not relate to the use itself it relates to a floor area ratio question okay so getting into the adaptive reuse itself in the city code we have an adaptive reuse section that allows certain uses to be considered within designated local landmark buildings that might otherwise be prohibited or restricted by the underlying zoning category and so in this case um what we are being asked to consider is whether or not the special event space and the bed and breakfast um are compatible for this building and for this site or do they have uh negative impacts off-site that warrant um the denial now under this review process special exception criteria are not applied here but they can be a guide which is why city staff included the special exception criteria in our city council cover memo to just kind of help you think about the types of considerations that normally go into these site plan reviews the second thing that is often considered when it comes to these uses and plans is uh parking and traffic circulation so the second part of your consideration is the parking and access to the site and whether again that creates impacts off-site so one of the things that you saw in the public comments you read in the registered opponent materials you heard from the cppc hearing was a concern about parking and when you go into the adaptive reuse section it does talk about variances and so when you work through that language essentially what it says regarding these types of adaptive reuse proposals is it doesn't give an exact number what it gives us is a statement that says the number of parking should be what is reasonably or could reasonably fit on the property and so we're going to show you the comparisons here in a second but before i do that we did take these street images to show you what are kind of the existing street conditions at different periods in time going all the way back to 2016 to up to 2022 you can see that at the time that these google street views were taken there was availability for on-street parking we just wanted to include that in the materials here for consideration and discussion okay on this slide the image to the left is showing how the parking lot is currently striped and the image on the right is showing the proposed reconfiguration of the parking the reconfiguration does reduce obviously the number of physical spaces provided on site but it is providing a more practical circulation for how vehicles might access the site or how loading or service vehicles might load and unload equipment normally when we are doing a parking evaluation we are looking at existing requirements and then proposed requirements now if we are running just the calculations you can see under the existing church they would be required to have 47 parking spaces in the proposed use changes they would be only required to provide 42 spaces clearly from the image they physically do not meet the minimum 47 that is required for the church so in this case because the parking requirement is less than what is required for the church today on paper we would normally say there's no variance that is required here however because they are physically reducing the total physical number on site through this reconfiguration we have to think about that generally as a variance but again because there is no minimum requirement under adaptive reuse is this the maximum number of parking spaces that can reasonably fit on the property and will the cars that we expect to come to the site have some negative impact on surrounding properties that warrant not approving this adaptive reuse request so that's what is being considered and i think something you'll probably hear often in the public comment portion okay the last piece is the map amendment i'll just show you really quick the reason why this has nothing to do with the uses proposed is this is a preemptive request the existing conditions of the site are on the left and you can see the future proposal of the applicant is on the right the future proposal is not part of this application because we could not process it if it was included in their materials so what they are doing is they're asking for rezoning to on a presumption that sometime later this year we will be doing corridor amendments and increasing the floor area ratio in these commercial mixed use categories that would increase the floor area ratio to at least 1.25 and that would then allow them to do this building addition so the request for a map amendment we believe does meet the minimum criteria in the comp plan and are recommending approval but we also believe that this request is premature we haven't changed the the far and the commercial mixed use and this is something that could come back at a later time as part of a separate application we are recommending approval and we can answer questions uh after the presentations thank you thank you okay now we'll go to the applicant good evening good evening if we could pull up a powerpoint please pressman please mr chairman and council members todd pressman 200 second evidence south number 451 st petersburg we are thrilled and proud to stand before you today with the outstanding support of your experience and professional staff preserve the berg and a letter of no opposition from the board of directors of the euclid st paul neighborhood association that association says to you quote that we urge you city council members consider the long history of the vacancy of this treasured historic building that bears our neighborhood's namesake it has deteriorated long enough now mr chairman and council members the depth of reuse code fits this site perfectly and it reads to encourage retention and productive reuse of structures that have historic value in the city especially when located in single-family neighborhoods are abandoned and abolished because it's too difficult to meet current standards provides a process to bring these buildings and can be reused and retained allows flexibility in the proposed use design criteria and parking requirements in a way that significantly reduces the conflicts created by changing the use of an existing building this is the treehouse project of united or euclid united methodist church euclid st paul community located at 10th avenue north close to mlk it's a religious landmark that dates back to the 1920s been vacant for decades this is one of the original articles from 1926 and on the register of historic places but mr chairman and council members the fact is the uses that we're asking for have been present at this site we found a number of pictures that show you events and activities that include amplified sound as you can see a drum set amplifiers these are uses that we're asking as an event center have been present at this site for quite some time and you'll see these two on the left belting out quite a song with amplification as well but another very important finding mr chairman and council members that the church has been located at this site long before any residential this is an aerial from 2002 the church is present no residential and looking today all the residential is moved in along with intensive uses on the east and the south and a multi-family on the east this is the current status of the church but when you look at the interior i'm sorry this is adjacent to the south this is adjacent to the east and this is the condition of the church we are either going to approve this today and save the structure it will not last much longer this is severe element of decay of the church and thankfully noam and his wife irene have come forward and purchased the property and intend to make millions of dollars on investment to save the structure make it viable they put together a tremendous team two local uh persons uh with um all trades cassie uh and with paul reese they're both local element of local firms that have won a lot of local awards who are on board and working already with the site and put together beautiful plans and move forward to a point that your staff tells you that this is a reasonable configuration of the parking area that using ride share proximity to other transit points and valet valet parking meets those concerns uh gnome has by letter of intent and a lease with a number of spots elsewhere close by including one directly across the next door at the gas station across the street 29 parking spaces uh under lease a total 176 spaces off-site that he has under by letter of intent or lease also they have a dedicated and preferred vendor star trolley which handles a lot of weddings that are also on board as part of the vendors and natalia from days remembered will make you aware as a long-time wedding planner and event planner that the demand for parking at these kind of uses is very low because people come from out of town they know that there's alcohol they use ride share or uber of those elements for reduced uh for reduced elements of parking we have amir jamali who is a licensed engineer who has analyzed the site through the institute of transportation engineers he reports to you and the report is in the record the parking figuration not only meets but exceeds required parking provisions importantly all the event activity is focused to the south and to the west away from the residential none to the west none to the north and we have letters on record from virtually all the surrounding property owners to the west to the east and south who support this request those are impacted owners who are in record of supporting this request these are some of the letters and some of the signatures of those people as well as a vast amount amount of people through uh through uh social media uh we are proud to also have the support of preserve the bird uh they they are here tonight i believe but they also spoke at the prior hearing euclid saint paul as a neighborhood they note they acknowledge that a revitalized maintained historic property is significant and that ensures this was a use that will ensure the church remains a vibrant and integral part of euclid saint paul we're adding along with the fire resistance a tremendous amount of sound resistance reconstruction uh with bricking increased max doors walls insulate floor areas a long list that paul and paul is our architect will be doing acoustical panels uh gaps in construction bass traps improving all the existing conditions which are very poor for sound and we hired esi who did a sound test at 90 uh decibels his report tells you the outside levels were more than 15 dbs lower than the ordinance limit of 72 dbs this is just an example of some sound curtains that will be added to the site as well there's been concerns raised about bringing commercial intensity into the area but the reality is that abutting the entire abutting the church and abutting the entire corridor is corridor commercial zoning so all those uses sports bars restaurants retail medical day spa those uses are all there and line along this corridor where the church is commercial is already there and has been there euclid saint paul further notes that minimal traffic impact from st paul's with over 380 students which is nearby the neighborhood benefits from a variety of businesses within its boundaries and demonstrates its capacity to support the activity while maintaining a positive environment so when you look at your staff recommendations the staff tells you that they approved the certificate of appropriateness they tell you that the proposal supports the comp plan the adaptive reuse of historic buildings and that the adaptive use of a decommissioned church and school building is common within historic preservation staff tells you the applicant's proposal is a reasonable configuration of the parking and tells you that they recommend approval of the proposed map amendment to the future land use map from pr-r to prmu and the official zoning map change as well so mr chairman and council members again we believe the greatest direction is section 16.30.020 which you can see now we believe is directly showing you that we meet this standard and it's a standard that's asked for for these kind of uses encourage retention and productive use of structures that have historic value especially located in a single-family neighborhood it's too difficult to meet current zoning standards provides a process by which these buildings can be reused and retained allows flexibility in the proposed use design criteria and parking requirements that significantly reduces conflicts so with that in summary we ask you to recognize that basically the same uses have been present at the church over a long period of time never any complaints church was present before any of the residential moved in the property has been bought it's been invested in and they have an outstanding team working they've addressed the parking considering the very low demand of the use and alternatives to rise and the low demand of parking for this use tremendously increasing and improving the sound buffers and barriers most of the abutting property owners are in support and that's on record the entire area abuts a corridor commercial zoning and all activity is focused away from the residential with that we appreciate your attention and consideration thank you thank you thank you okay now we'll go to the opponent good evening good evening how are you my name is Michelle Gehrig i know there's a presentation as well evening council members my name is Michelle Gehrig my address is 1021 10th street north i'm directly adjacent to the proposed use on its north side i've provided you and the clerk with copies of my slides for the record and i've been sworn in i've lived next to the church property for 20 years my home is to the left of the church in this photograph my family and i were drawn to the euclid st paul's neighborhood for its charm diverse homes front porches and tree-lined streets before buying our home we evaluated the neighborhood feel and since it was located close to commercial uses and a large church we did our due diligence the church congregation met on sundays and other activities did not extend late into any evening as for the commercial uses behind our home they face dr mlk junior street where commercial use is appropriate and are across an alley additionally we maintain our fence and establish vegetation to buffer our home from noise and traffic from those uses so expectations were set and expectations were met i want to be crystal clear about one point the neighbors and i are in full support of preserving the church our opposition is to the land use change zoning change and commercial adaptive reuse along with the applicants achieve a higher floor area ratio all of which are inconsistent with our neighborhood we currently have 117 signatures on our petition from residents opposing these requests a copy of our petition has been provided to the city clerk this visual shows residents who've signed a petition green pins opposed the rezoning and event use red pins support it from the cluster of green in the neighborhood and close to the church you can see the large number of residents opposing these requests well there are problems with the application i want to start with the applicants proposed buffers for noise and traffic this is the west elevation of the church there's really nothing to say other than it is misleading and inaccurate when showing lush vegetation framing the building it does not exist and won't exist while my home is there this is an accurate photo for the rendering to be accurate those trees would need to be planted in my living room here is the east elevation and a true portrayal of the east elevation so the renderings are a mirage a dream we all have dreams but this is the reality the applicant has argued that the church was there first and so their use should be allowed yes their use as a church is allowed the applicant's request is for commercial use and so their complaint is a total misrepresentation of what the applicant believes has been allowed in this zoning when the owner purchased the church in 2023 my home along with several others was there it was not a vacant lot as is being portrayed anyone doing any sort of due diligence or even sitting at their computer using google earth in 2023 could have clearly seen the homes in heavy residential use surrounding the property regarding the character of the area and how it relates to buffers there is an alley to the east and 10th avenue to the south which serve as proper buffers they designate the end of the commercial zone and the beginning of the residential zone our neighborhood isn't that how land use transition is supposed to work however in this proposal there is not a plan for any type of buffer between the church and the residential areas to the north nor do i see how that is possible since there is only one foot from the church's north side to its property line that is very close it is closer than the single family home to my north it is so close the church's north side cannot be maintained without me granting permission to be on or over my property i bring this up so you will understand the immense negative impact and disruption this proposed use will have on the livability of my home and when discussing land use transitions this application is not consistent with the city's comprehensive plan i'm not going to read all these to you but i would like to point out proper buffering weighing the character of predominantly developed areas protection from incompatible uses and the last one 3.8 was also raised as a concern by city staff moving on to the proposed use as an event venue with transient units churches are traditionally found in residential neighborhoods private event venues are not they are not the same a church use serves the community private event venues serve the owner and the client of the moment here are photos of the past events held in the church which you saw mr pressman's presentation versus pictures from private event venues this is a huge intensification of use not only will there be amplified noise from live bands or djs there will be unamplified noise from outdoor events traffic delivery trucks backup beeping noise from loud and possibly intoxicated guests arriving departing waiting for valets and ubers and the after party celebrations for guests who overnight in the transient units there is not an ordinance regulating unamplified noise do we the neighbors now have to involuntarily participate in a loud and boisterous but excuse me boisterous wedding reception 2 to 3 times a week keep in mind if the event ends at 11 cleanup and tear down could go on for another 2 hours this is a quiet st pete neighborhood every resident has the right to quietly enjoy their home i have no confidence the applicant will be able to prevent noise from escaping the church or from the guests and supporting cast necessary for this large business to operate a sound study was included in the appeal uh since paint noise which was used as criteria is compared to steady grain i question its use as criteria but regardless if the event space becomes reality and noise permanent excuse me if noise permeates the neighborhood several nights a week what recourse do we the neighbors have we should not be expected to have to live with party noise nor should we have to be the ones policing it next is parking the wedding venue use with up to 184 guests will require more parking spaces than are available on site and yet the applicant is reducing the amount of on-site parking with loose commitments for off-site parking via private unenforceable agreements with nearby property owners i believe if the use is approved it is forever whereas the letters of intent are only good until an owner doesn't want to participate anymore this concern was called out in the staff report and became a reality even before the cppc hearing as one of those businesses is no longer in business the appeal includes other letters of intent but they are still not enforceable and are meaningless without a mechanism to enforce them eucalyut st paul's is not downtown st pete or st pete beach we do not have walkable hotels for hundreds of guests and honestly there is nothing to stop a guest or employee from parking on a public street it will happen keep in mind several streets already only allow parking on one side and many homes in our neighborhood do not have driveways the residents have to use street parking which is already a daily battle battle without an event venue this you should not be allowed to rely on on street parking residents rely on it every day next is traffic circulation for the valets from those off-site parking lots google maps shows the same time or less to return to the church using residential streets so from skipper law it's one minute faster to take a route on neighborhood streets and from the the bay care lot on 7th avenue it's a two-minute trip using either of these routes but the one on the right is primarily right turns using residential streets which option do you think is more likely there is also an uber lift station planned on the easement intent on 10th street and very close to my home as you can see on the slide i have several concerns with this but we're focused on traffic right now so to exit the neighborhood ride share drivers will likely head north on 10th street to 12th avenue to dr mlk jr twice per event pick up and drop off this is a further intensification of use of our neighborhood streets the appeal says the cppc ignored the adaptive reuse code i respectfully disagree and believe it was fully considered here is the section in question this highlight discusses difficulty meeting current zoning standards actually there are three churches in saint petersburg with historic designations being reused for residences has the applicant even considered this option and this highlight discusses minimizing secondary impacts to surrounding properties the intensification of use will clearly be an impact minimizing impact would be single or multifamily living which can be achieved with adaptive reuse lastly is the proposed commercial excuse me commercial zoning encroachment into a purely residential zone the church property is already at a maximum floor area ratio the cct1 rezoning is being requested because the allowable far and ct excuse me cct1 might be expanded in the future as mr kilbourne pointed out at which point the owner will request an expansion to the accessory building for their primary living unit this request is unacceptable and frankly a waste of time for city staff and this council to have to consider now in the event the farm might increase in the future why can't the owner's home be included within the adaptive reuse of the church it's pushing boundaries and it's proposed at our neighborhood to our neighborhood's detriment not to mention the precedent that would be set in the city what is the point of zoning if we keep chipping away at it and making concessions for property owners who fail to conduct their due diligence before purchase so i implore you to consider the proposed use is not reasonable for this particular location we have seen success right across the street the historic euclid school now serving a residential purpose as multi-family homes preserving the building and the character of the neighborhood this appeal is not just about preservation it's about increased development intensity and establishing an incompatible use with opposition from the community please honor our expectations and remember that the integrity of the neighborhood is something that needs to be preserved as much as a church please protect our community and vote to uphold the cppc's decision thank you please let's keep the quorum um okay so now we'll go into uh public comment clerk please call two names at a time when you're when the clerk when the clerk calls your name please go to either podium you'll have three minutes to speak and please confirm whether you've been sworn in or not mr chair that podium's not working correctly okay so we'll have two speakers at both podium at just this one podium because we've got a mic not working the first two speakers is laura column and stephen column please go to the podium on the right state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council good evening i've been sworn my name is laura column i am a native of st petersburg and have been a resident of euclid st paul for over 15 years i live just two blocks away from euclid church of christ and i was present at the same week sorry i hate to can we get your address we need the name your name and your address and whether you've been sworn uh my name is laura column and my address is 1263 10th street north thank you okay i was present at the cppc meeting and watched the applicants present their case i found it to be misleading and convoluted then as i do now and here are just a few reasons why they are misrepresenting the historical context of the church by comparing proposed use to events that were held there decades ago don't let them deceive you the past church use did not include a bed and breakfast food kitchen or bar the sound study is deceiving because it lacks details and doesn't account for the noise from the 75 outdoor guests that are allowed moreover there is no plan for where these outdoor events will take place their parking analysis is theoretical and relies on non-binding agreements for off-site parking with no clear plan on transportation systems other than uber as commissioner wanamaker stated during the last meeting these letters of intent have no teeth a legal document is required to secure parking and even those can easily fall apart in fact as michelle mentioned one of the businesses that provide a letter of intent has already gone out of business the vast majority of letters of support are from organizations and residents that don't live in euclid and are not directly impacted by the proposed changes and social media supporters only see what irene and gnome want to project about themselves and the project i know of two instances where local residents posted comments that were not in favor of this project and those comments were later removed council the facts remain the same the church is too far removed from the downtown core for this intensity of use this appeal has no new evidence to overturn the expertise and judgment of the cppc board at the last meeting mr pressman stated that the church site is at the end of the line of our residential neighborhood and that this is the last chance of saving the church i urge you not to rely on these hypothetical statements this proposal is riddled with uncertainties with requests for changes in anticipation of further change if this proposal is approved what will happen in the future where is the line i hope that you decide this is the line and oppose this appeal i thank you for your time good evening council my name is stephen cullum 1263 10th street north i'm happy the cppc voted in favor of restoring the church have you been sworn in excuse me you've been sworn in yes i have been sworn in uh i'm here in opposition to the map amendment and adaptive reuse according to research from predominant wedding websites like zola and the knot the average wedding size in the u.s is around 150 guests in the u.s we are the highest in the world when it comes to hiring approximately 15 wedding vendors i have found no statistical data referring to how many people drive to a wedding or reception as a resident i would drive my own car and if i was here on vacation i would rent a car with intentions of driving to destinations across the bay on average a mid-size event center holds between 200 and 500 people council how many people will this facility accommodate will it be 252 on the lower level 75 outside that's 200 and 327 people how many people will they fit on them on the mezzanine let's not let us not forget about the staff you can't compare this venue to venues in downtown st pete or the beaches these comparisons and others are located in the core hub of business districts those businesses either have ample parking or no expectations of parking at all as the expert wedding planner underscores euclid neighborhood doesn't have walkable hotels and we can't utilize freetaxi.com st petersburg transportation shuttles and trolleys never drive into our neighborhood she also states urban still house has a very small parking lot with its 20 spaces reserved for vendors and staff it's unlikely this event space can squeak out seven legal parking spaces i want to be crystal clear the location of this church is on the interior of a residential neighborhood i want to underscore this venue is not just for weddings it's a medium to large event center with a bakery meeting hall community assembly facility and transit housing with bed and breakfast i hope i didn't miss anything these investors will never be happy with the outcome ruled by the cppc or city council unless you give them everything they're asking for this will never end if you don't give them the size door they want they will appeal if you pass the rezoning map they'll be back to request in addition to the detached structure would you like to have this event center in your residential neighborhood with the only guaranteed parking parking being on the street i hope that your answer is no thank you thank you next two speakers please mr chair the next next two speakers is sarah stevens and mike harness please state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council my name is sarah stevens and i have been sworn in i live at 935 jackson street north less than 300 feet from the property in question i urge you to deny this zoning request not just for my home but for the integrity of residential neighborhoods across st petersburg this decision isn't just about one property it sets a dangerous precedent approving this rezoning signals that residential neighborhoods where families build their lives are open for commercial intrusion of any scale some may argue that this property sits along a corridor but make no mistake it is within a residential neighborhood the surrounding homes including mine may be near that corridor but we are all still euclid st paul a historic established residential neighborhood approving this rezoning disregards us who live within our neighborhoods interior border and weakens our protections i'd like to repeat that approving this rezoning disregards us residents who have built our lives within euclid st paul's interior border this project is fundamentally incompatible with the residential area you've already heard the parking concerns it brings late night noise traffic and safety concerns residents will suffer with loud events intoxicated guests leaving at all hours and increased risks to pedestrians and our families it lacks proper buffers between homes and high intensity commercial use this is not a small boutique shop it's a full-scale event venue with an outdoor gathering space a full kitchen and year-round operations some have attempted to justify this project by comparing it to st paul's church nearby but this comparison is misleading st paul's has ample on-site parking this venue has just seven on-site spots st paul's is a place of worship not a for-profit event space with loud late night parties and open bars st paul's exists as part of the community this proposal forces a business into a residential space prioritizing profit over the well-being of homeowners this rezoning has already been rejected by the cppc for good reason voting yes to this appeal is a direct intentional decision to destroy the quality of life for myself and my neighbors we elected you and we are trusting you to protect us our homes are the most private and intimate spaces we have there are sanctuaries where we raise our children where we rest where we feel safe allowing this appeal to pass places our safety and comfort in serious jeopardy for that reason i beg of you on behalf of myself and my fellow neighbors who are near our neighbors court our neighborhoods corridor to uphold the previous decision and deny this appeal i ask you to think about your own neighborhoods would you want this next to your home would you accept a business of this scale operating in your backyard if not then you understand why we are fighting so desperately to protect ours thank you so much for your time good evening my name is mike harness i live at 1242 13th street north and i've been sworn in and these people that have already spoken make me look really bad i agree with them wholeheartedly one of the reasons that that i'm up here is because i'm a landlord in the neighborhood i i can't see the church but because i'm a landlord and a property owner in the neighborhood i'm very concerned about the value of my property and i want to make sure that whatever changes in the neighborhood improves the value of my property not puts it in jeopardy by bringing in something that is unproven and incompatible and for that reason i oppose the zoning change and it's just that simple i want my property values to stay the same or go up and i think if this comes in certainly for the people that are within view of it they're going to see their property values fall thank you for your time thank you next two speakers next two speakers is jason costco and megan costco please state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council my name is jason costco i live at 1021 14th street north and i have been sworn in so my name is jason i've come to you today someone who has undergone a similar process to a gnome and irene are taking on my wife and i along with a business partner have poured time sweat and many many dollars into restoring a hundred year old building that's actually not far from this one that easily could have been torn down and forgotten i still remember hearing back from ruey from the saint p history museum he emailed me back and i found out they were saving a neighborhood grocery store from the 1920s the bonaire grocer i can tell you unquestionably that it would have been way easier to tear it down and turn it into a garage apartment or a townhouse but how cool is it how much does it make you love our city when i tell you that my wife is opening a children's bookstore in that very building i can't help but admire what noam and irene have accomplished even getting us to this point they have taken on a project even bigger and more complex than my own and have done so with care vision and passion their dedication to breathing new life into another historic building is something that in my opinion often is lacking in a rush to demolish our past and build new townhomes in its place rest in peace dairy inn which stood literally across the street from this falling down church another one of the main reasons i wanted to come in and speak today in support is that i wish i had taken a stronger stance in support the last time someone wanted to redevelop this building about five years ago a developer wanted to turn the church into residential apartments with a co-working space the voices against were once again loud as an involved member as an involved board member at the time i believe they were not the majority i fear that if the effort to save the church fails this time there may not be a next and it will join the dairy inn as one of the things that used to make saint pete so cool and as a former board member and someone who's still involved with the neighborhood i can't help but appreciate the way that noam and irene have done their best to be good neighbors they've been in neighborhood events they volunteered they've engaged with the community about this project and they even want to live in the accessory building next to the church which is the only reason that they needed the cct1 zoning change i've heard some say that this will allow the project that if you allow this project then opens the doors for them to transform the building into anything they please but this is not the case the proposed uses for the church like wedding venue meeting hall and bed and breakfast are already part of the adaptive reuse so this is not an open door for commercialization but a path for the church a local landmark and the namesake of our neighborhood to be given a future from experience i know how difficult it is to take a project from an idea to something that benefits the community i also know that they are committed to doing this the right way they've worked tirelessly to address concerns from neighbors and have gone above and beyond to find solutions securing multiple parking agreements and testing the soundproofing to ensure that this building will not cause disruptions i sincerely hope you'll think long and hard about your decision as it could be the church's last and best chance with people intent on saving it thank you um hi my name is megan kotzko uh same address 10 21 14th street north and i have been sworn in um as my husband said um we are here as neighbors we are here as small business owners and we have kind of walked in the steps that they are walking in right now um i live very close or we live in the neighborhood and close to the historic church that they're working so hard to reform as a mom of two children i want to live in a neighborhood where that is vibrant and welcome and safe for families as a local business owner the children's bookstore that we're opening here around the corner from our home though in the another neighborhood we know how important it is firsthand to invest in the places where we live and work and raise our children prior to starting our family we were on the neighborhood board as a board member and serving as president we fell in love with our neighborhood 12 years ago when we were looking to buy a home we took pride in where we lived and we've highly enjoyed meeting our neighbors planning events and working to improve the neighborhood when we purchased the building that he referenced that's now our bookstore saying it was in rough shape was a complete understatement um i think anybody that walked in and realized that they are taking down ceilings floors walls everything to save a building most people would tear it down and i feel like they're in the similar steps that we were but we've fallen in love with that building we looked to the left every time we turned into our neighborhood and saw that building and knew that it had potential to be something else and we feel the same about the church we've driven by it for years seen it being abandoned we've walked by it with our dog it's abandoned it's falling down and we see the same potential that they do um we saw the potential to create something meaningful for families in the community and a rundown old building from the 20s in the same way that they see have a vision for turning the church into something breathing new life into a historic structure that is literally falling down um i feel that if they if they can see their plans to fruition and bring new life to the euclid church the surrounding properties would only improve it's a falling down dilapidated building it's welcoming to transient people and crime at the gas station right next door that's on record with the police i think by restoring it and bringing that back to life we're only going to revitalize that section of the neighborhood um so that's why i think it's very important to support projects that are bringing these positive changes to our community um turning it into this event venue they're preserving a historic building they're investing in their own neighborhood and their project just has the potential to revitalize those surrounding areas we even saw that with the building that we like i said walked in the same steps as them everything around it started to improve as well um we've owned it for a few years and the street isn't as scary as it used to be a lot of things are happening and i think it takes guts and um and just a big risk to um to take on an endeavor endeavor like this um and we hope that you support them next two speakers please mary gherkins and mia paddock please go to the podium state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council mary gherkin 13 45 15th street north and i have been sworn in thank you for letting me speak today i've lived in you could st paul for 25 years and in st pete for over 40. i've seen many changes in st pete and i don't want to lose the uniqueness of our city including and especially in my neighborhood i walk and bike quite a bit and when i saw the scaffoldings go up and saw the working workers repairing the brick and mortar i was ecstatic that someone had the foresight to renew this once beautiful church a historic landmark then the work stopped then the scaffolding came down and i was very concerned about the church's futures years ago the adjacent school building was restored and saved what about this treasure i may accept changes in my city but this is my hood i have to speak in support of this project it's too important to let this go unsaid and it's about the future of our community and revitalizing the whole area it's something i care very deeply about and fully support the new owners who plan to transform the euclid church into the treehouse wedding venue the previous owners developers attempted to gain approval for adaptive reuse they were denied twice and now the church is down to its last chance i truly believe there's too many churches that are being abandoned and they are not coming back as churches so the thought of losing historic building is just devastating to me and the thought that some a church is going to move back into that building is pretty much non-existent if we miss this chance it'll be another four to five years before another developer comes through and who knows what they're going to do to that building it's it's falling apart i believe that a majority of the neighborhood including these people here want this historic building to remain it's just they don't want to have changes but we have to we have to uh adjust for what this building can be used for if we want to keep a historic building i heard that the new owner secured an agreement for adequate off-site parking spaces and they're listening to the neighbors concern the church is crying out for help and we have a chance to save it i urge you all to consider the long-term impact of this project not just on the church itself but our entire community also thank you my name is mina paddock i have been sworn in my address is 1031 16th street north so i'm a resident of the euclid st paul neighborhood and i'm here to oppose the current situation i want to stand by my neighbors who are also opposed especially those that are living closest and would be most affected day-to-day by this project my main concerns are parking and noise the applicants claim these issues will not be a problem i have my doubts due to the binding agreements that can be canceled at any moment with several businesses and i also want to point out that my husband can express concern on a social media post of theirs my husband criticized the lack of parking and implied that the applicants are more concerned about making money no name calling or harsh words were used their response was to delete his comment and other constructive comments that i saw and to block him if they are so confident about their plans why would they need to delete comments and block neighbors i know my husband is not the only one that this has happened to after this i have my doubts that the applicants are truly interested in constructive collaboration with the neighborhood especially those right nearby it's easy to erase any concerns on social media but you cannot ignore the at least 100 neighbors that signed a petition against this those who wrote emails expressing their concerns and the people like myself that are here today to speak out thank you thank you next to speak the next two speakers monsignor robert gibbons and christina vargas please state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address counsel yeah monsignor robert gibbons and i live at 1800 12th street north i'm the pastor of st paul's church and school which is in the neighborhood and i don't have a position one way or another in monsignor oh yes i was sworn in multiple times in your lifetime okay different type of pledge here i don't i don't uh have a position one way or another on this particular application and i have to be pastor for the whole neighborhood i just wanted to say it is a great neighborhood i've lived there 29 years now and uh i've seen dramatic changes for the good in the neighborhood when i first came there our property had to be surrounded by barbed wire fence because the neighborhood was so iffy it has really changed uh dramatically and um so i hope whatever decision you make it's for the good of our neighborhood because it is a great neighborhood and we're proud to be part of euclid st paul thank you hi good evening my name is christina vargas my address is 2473 whitler branch and yes i have been sworn in so i want to thank you for allowing me to have the opportunity to speak tonight um i was actually a member of this church in my youth for over a decade at that time it was a hispanic pentecostal church and it was called iglesia de dios vida nueva which translates to church of god new life as i stand here today i think how this name holds profound symbolism for this hearing tonight just as this church provided a new beginning for so many of us spiritually and emotionally this proposal represents an opportunity to breathe new life into this historic building for the future of the community i actually recently had the opportunity to visit the church and to much of my surprise it was in very much despair but as i stepped through those doors there was an instant wave of memories from over the years that came rushing back it was like opening a time capsule this place was more than just a house of worship i know some mentioned that your services were only on sunday but we actually met there on tuesday nights friday nights sundays and often on the weekends for special events those moments did shape my life my parents celebrated their 25th wedding uh val renewal there we had a big celebration uh that were surrounded by friends and family and unfortunately in 2001 we actually mourned my father's passing within those same walls honoring his life in a wake that brought together our church family we had countless youth group events i can remember having garage sales in the parking lot to raise funds for the church car washes i had childhood friends who had their sweet 16s to those very same friends who got married within those same walls as in some of the pictures that you've seen i know that some of the neighbors may be concerned about the noise and disturbances and they have the perception that maybe a wedding venue will bring a rowdy events that may differ from a traditional church wedding but i can tell you that in my time there at the church we had several events and they were far from quiet and the receptions that followed whether they were in the fellowship hall they were filled with music laughter and celebration the type of events proposed for this venue are no different in spirit i know irene and her husband noam have gone through great measures to make sure that they adhere to the city ordinances and to ensure that the events are respectful of the community and surrounding neighborhood i know that the church was constructed in the early 1900s it's unfortunately fallen into great despair and without significant investment this monumental piece of your city's history is at risk of being lost forever approving this redesign would not only thank you thank you next two speakers please next two speakers are natalia day and bella kranatsky please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn in you'll have three minutes to address city council natalia day 10033 linen place uh drive in seminal and i have been sworn in um as you guys know i'm natalia day i'm the planner um i have been doing events here in the same p area as one of the top event planners in for the past 15 years over that time i've produced thousands of weddings executed with professionalism and precision running smoothly without any issues i produce weddings at nearly every hotel and event venue in st pete from the venoy to downtown museums small venues large venues you name it most do not have parking the venoy does not have parking they rely on ballet and public lot almost a mile away that these guys are running back and forth birch birchwood has no parking whatsoever not even for their own staff they have to park in a different garage they relay on public garage parking the museum of fine arts in downtown for example has a lot of their employee has a lot just for their employees and everything else is again parking around town couples booking these events here are made aware of these parking restrictions and all of the venues required to use the valet parking or shuttle service for the wedding day contracts all relay on the same traffic and parking plan that we are proposing here today to claim that parking remains a major issue despite the solutions we put in place for our close neighbors feels both unfair and dismissive statistically only 10 to 15 percent of event guests drive themselves to the events most uber or shuttle to the event and that has been the case for a long time here in st p this isn't a newfound cutting edge technology that we are only now discovering people have been using uber and st p commonly now for a very long time it's convenient safe and it helps people avoid the hassle of parking and let's not talk about drink drinking driving in fact the proposed venue will likely need only 20 parking spaces for about 150 guests an issue that's practically insignificant when compared to the hundreds of cars that parked here when this building was in use as a church we'll also have a contract with each couple ensuring they notify their guests what their plan is in regards to driving and transportation so let's move on from this issue because the only way to turn the page with this building and saving this building if it's denied today it will not find another developer to go through this five-year process to get to this point again there is a lot of work to be done instead let's focus on the positive impact this building will have small businesses are the heart of st pete we're the ones who show up for this community whether that's supporting schools donating to charities or pitching in after a hurricane i'm part of this project and we will and we will be keeping this venue local supporting our community this project will support local businesses as well and vendors like floors photographers caters local farmers seafood merchants and more it will create jobs giving st pete residents more employment opportunities it will save a historic building and moves this building into the future without destroying it by using tools that the general public already has in place again uber shuttles off-site parking we don't have to pretend that there is no solution to the simplest of issues thank you hi i'm really nervous um my name is bella krasnansky i live at 11430 clarkson road and i swore in okay i hate public speaking um hello my name is bella krasnansky i am noam and irene's daughter i'm here to support my parents and speak about this meaningful project my parents moved here from la and they sold our family home the place where i grew up my father tried to convince me to move here from la but i stayed and i'm pursuing a career as a fine dining chef when they told me they bought they didn't buy a regular house but instead bought this church i was honestly appalled and upset but not surprised my parents have always been unconventional they've always taken on projects that push boundaries and make their lives more fulfilling i think a big part of that comes with our family's experience with my autistic brother when you have someone in your life who requires so much more so much more care attention and sacrifice it makes you hyper aware of even the smallest how even the smallest moments can bring you joy you learn uh what life what's important in life and what is not because that's all you have growing up with a sibling who has special needs gives you a clear perspective on the difference between what most people view as a normal life and what it means to live with something that requires constant need and i think that's what has shaped my parents view on life they've never they never let fear or difficulty stop them from pursuing something that they think is important this church in a way has been a reflection of that something that's fallen into a difficult situation but still needs help this church when built 98 years ago was the heart of this neighborhood just eight years ago there were houses built across the street where the parking school parking lot once was those neighbors who move in feel like they have more of a say in how things should be now they want to rewrite the history of this place and pretend like the church never had a lively active presence but this building wasn't built to be quiet or static it was built to host gatherings to welcome people to bring in music and to celebrate life that's what it was designed for it's not out of an ordinary for a place like this to become an events venue but what they don't realize is that this like this church like my brother don't have a voice of their own they can't speak up for themselves they've been silenced over time and neglect and much like my brother who relies on those around him for advocate to advocate for his needs this church has been left without the ability to express its own potential the apartment buildings next door which were once a school brought 300 students into the area every day the church brought in another 300 for services the neighborhood was not quiet it was full of movement now because the church has fallen silent the neighborhood feels quiet too but this church isn't encroaching on anyone it's the neighborhood who want and who wants a no movement policy on the building that has been there much longer than they have it's been overlooked marginalized and now in its quiet state it's been judged as something that doesn't belong just like my brother who often has to fight for a place in this world that isn't always kind and understanding the church now needs people who can see its value to become something beautiful again what my parents are doing are simply standing up for something that can't stand up for itself thank you so much for your time next speakers please okay ben rogers submitted a card he does not wish to speak his card uh just indicates four next two speakers are lavana bledsoe and kimberly connor severiti uh please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn in you'll have three minutes to address city council my name is lavana bledsoe i have been sworn in my address is 2840 west bay drive in largo florida hello i'm a family friend of noam and irene's noam and irene bought the church two years ago from a developer this large developer bought it into 2017 hoping to make it their offices and add a retail space coffee shop seemed like a fine enough idea they applied for adapted reuse in 2019 and stood in front of the city council for an appeal in 2019 five years ago they had an opponent for their project the building was falling apart and they needed offices and their opponent was very vocal she said their idea would bring too much traffic noise and riffraff the same registered appointment opponent we have today miss gehrig opposed their plans for this idea they then changed the idea to multi-family and miss gehrig opposed their plans as well she produced a petition at the time with 36 signatures and she organized neighbors to speak only six of the 36 people who signed the petition are on her current day petition for the current project that means that only 16 percent of neighbors are still in the neighborhood or only 16 percent still oppose the saving of the building i know of a few who have changed their minds that means five years ago the city council made a decision based off neighbors that no longer live in the neighborhood the churches stayed and the neighbors left this shows that as saint pete grows by leaps and bounds this neighborhood is also changing rapidly the apartment building next door where many signatures were attained were obtained has a quick turnover of residents people don't stay more than a few years but by signing the petition they are making permanently impactful decisions for this church that is very rapidly falling apart and if you don't approve this project today and somehow the building survives for the next developer miss gehrig will be there as the registered opponent for that project as well miss gehrig doesn't want retail she doesn't want multi-family she doesn't want the closest thing to a church a wedding venue the last church to sell the building didn't have the means to fix it the uses the use needs to be equivalent to something that can support the massive cost it will take to do a historical restoration noam and irene have already spent 1.1 million buying the building and the building needs another two to three million just to fix her leaking roof failing steeple floors that are about to give in and update her in general if noam and irene walk away just as the last developer did after losing the adaptive reuse the next developer and the next developer will have the same outcome and you will have to vote on it again and again and again thank you for your time please vote to save the building good evening my name is kimberly connor savaretti i've been sworn in my address is 1328 15th street north there are a lot of feelings on both sides of this and they've painted a very romantic picture of what the potential could be for the building while it's imperative to preserve the character and the charm of the neighborhood it should not be at the expense of the people who have fought hard to make it as wonderful as it is today i live on a perimeter in our neighborhood i mirror what all of these residents are are going to endure i currently endure it so let me just tell you a little bit about what my experience is already the traffic and congestion and i'm grateful that mr todd pressman brought up the fact that they will have rideshare because my driveway is a rotating door of rideshare people who can't find parking at the perimeter of our neighborhood i have to go out every single day and say hi can you please move your car i have to say i know you're just unloading stuff but i can't leave my home i'm sorry can you pull up i've had to put signs behind my home saying please do not block the driveway i've had medical emergencies that i can't leave my alley because there are delivery trucks parked there 25 30 minutes at a time and because all of the drivers are not dedicated to the facility they are new every time they make a delivery so if i say please can you move the truck and not do that again the next person won't care they also park in my landscaping i've asked them to please don't park in my landscaping i get laughed at i get mocked i've approached the facility to say like this is my house i live here please respect me trash medical waste is left i spend 12 hours every weekend cleaning up my yard to have it destroyed the rest of the week when other people show up who don't live there workers playing loud music which they'll also have to contend with to all hours of the evening the smell of the diesel fuel from the trucks and the deliveries that are being made is constant and just to reinforce that the city has not supported any of the residents on that commercial area we've had zero police enforcement when i call i get no support if i report the trucks being parked they show up four hours later in the meantime i can't use my street that i pay taxes on the workers show up and they leave trash everywhere they don't live and work where i live they don't have the same investment and compassion for our neighborhood these are transient people a lot of the delivery and workers who are there do not invest in our community they do not share our goals for what we want our neighborhood to look like what do you want our community to look like this is a building in the community it is not the community us the people make up what this community looks like thank you next two speakers please next two speakers are christian gluzar and richard novikas please go to the podium on your right state your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn in for the record and you have three minutes to address city council hi my name is christian glazar 801 12th avenue north in st pete and i have been sworn in whether you live in euclid st paul's crescent lake uptown or any of st petersburg's vibrant century old neighborhoods you know that charm and character are earned they can't be manufactured from scratch even if it's in its current state of neglect the old euclid church on 10th avenue north exudes both character and charm it was once an anchor of the neighborhood helping to cement the sense of community that lifelong residents have always enjoyed and that has drawn newcomers like myself and my family to this amazing city over the past several years people worshiped there major life events took place inside sanctuary key moments that continue to live on in the memories of generations of locals even as the building fell into disrepair breathing new life into a beautiful structure that has been neglected for two decades would serve the best interests of the surrounding neighborhood and the city of st petersburg i recognize the concern of neighbors who worry about increased traffic and noise but is there a better alternative than adaptive reuse personally i would rather live next door to a well-maintained community asset than an occupied unoccupied derelict structure and i'd rather live next door to a historic building than rows of new townhouses or an apartment building as we know this is the last hope for this beautiful structure we can watch with pride as the krasnanskis bring it back to its former glory enabling current and future residents to come together and form new memories or we can watch it continue to decay until the wrecking ball inevitably comes and then what perhaps it becomes a vacant lot of rubble and dust surrounded by a channeling fence eventually that vacant lot may give way to some form of high density new construction but there are plenty of places to put townhouses and condos that don't require us to erase the best of our past we know this building won't be a church again times have changed but it can serve many of the essential functions that it did for 80 years before bringing people together forging relationships creating indelible memories extending the legacy of a beloved building that was once the pride of a neighborhood into a new century i urge the commissioners to let this project move forward for the benefit of our community and to preserve the st petersburg that we all appreciate thank you my name is richard novicus 7901 24th avenue north st petersburg i have been sworn in good evening everyone my name is richard i'm the owner of star trolley we have agreed to be the preferred transportation service for the tree house star trolley is a local business with deep roots in st petersburg community for years we proudly served all major venues in the area including the benoy and nova just down the street from the church we've done 700 plus weddings in st pete we own a fleet of elegant trolleys where we transport guests attending weddings we'll be working with the tree house for guests coming from downtown hotels or off the or or the off-site parking locations that noam has secured for the venue i understand the worry that these events may bring rowdy guests loud celebrations or disruptions to the neighborhood i want to address these concerns directly because from my experience this is not the reality with people who attend weddings we have service we specialize in luxury transportation specifically tailored for high-end clientele our couples are looking for something special there we find well-organized experience for one of the most important days of their lives weddings are carefully planned occasions a culmination of years of dreams and planning couples are not going to invite guests who might ruin or disrupt the day they've been imagining for so long our clients are looking for sophistication professionalism and an experience that reflects the care and effort they put into planning their celebration i'd also like to emphasize how star trolley will help ensure smooth efficient transportation for all guests we're fully equipped to pick up guests from various downtown hotels and bring them to the tree house in stages this allows us to accommodate large groups quickly and quietly ensuring a seamless and calm arrival experience we have the capacity to transport hundreds of guests with ease and without disrupting the neighborhood additionally we're able to shuttle guests directly from the large off-site parking lot on mlk that is owned by baker and has an agreement with the tree house this will eliminate the need for multiple individual ubers or guests having to walk two blocks to the venue this kind of coordinated service is something we've perfected over the years ensuring that everything runs smoothly and with minimal impact on the surrounding area from my experience with star trolley i can say with confidence that we don't encounter any disruptive behavior our service is coordinated organized and focused on providing a smooth enjoyable experience this venue will be a positive and respectful presence in the neighborhood and community supporting not just my business but many local vendors and businesses in the area thank you again for your time and we look forward to working together to ensure that these weddings are wonderful respectful events that everyone can enjoy thank you next two speakers okay uh the next person filled out a card and i wish to speak this person's name is reagan memelie and his card indicates he's four next two speakers are helen memelie and noam krasnasky please go to the podium on your right state your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn in for the record you'll have three minutes to address city council good evening council members um my name is helen memelie i live at 12 30 17th avenue north and i have been torn here in i'm here tonight not just as a resident but as somebody who spent years to improve our committee i previously served as both the president and secretary of the euclid st paul's neighborhood association and i deeply care about the future of our community change is never easy and i understand that it often comes with concerns and uncertainty however i believe it's important that we approach this decision with facts fairness and shared vision of what's best for our neighborhood this proposal before us tonight is not about changing the character of our community it's about taking an underutilized building the euclid church and transforming it into an active well-maintained space that benefits the neighborhood some concerns have been raised about traffic and congestion but the reality is that the saint paul's catholic church already brings this daily and we as neighbors have adapted i live directly across from the church and school and from my experience weddings for example generate minimal car traffic because many guests use rideshare services additionally the infrastructure already a place in our neighborhood one-way streets and no parking signs already help manage any impacts beyond traffic safety must be a priority right now the building sits vacant and vacant buildings and often invite crime during my time as espna president i've had access to security points and can tell you that this area just has had some serious safety concerns in fact in june there was a shooting nearby somebody who's opposed to this project even sent me the video of this an empty building does not contribute to a safer neighborhood but an occupied active actively maintained space does i also want to acknowledge that there's been a strong community discussion on this issue while we may all not agree what's best for the space i believe it's important that we ensure all conversations are based on clear and accurate information some residents who originally signed the the opposition's petition later regretted it after gaining a fuller understanding of this project for example if you note on the signed formed letters that were drafted from the petition you will say that it says this is on the northeast corner of our neighborhood this is actually located in the southeast it even started a rumor that saint paul's which is leave is closing which we all know is not going anywhere this is why the espna board took the steps as you can see in your packet to reach out and uh to our neighbors to ensure that all voices in the neighborhood were ho were heard in an open and transparent way this process has been challenging and that has at times caused division among neighbors however i truly believe that we all share the same goal to you see this space used the way that enhances our community some haven't have suggested alternatives such as co-working spaces apartments or mixed-use developments those ideas were explored in 2019 but the same concerns were raised then as they are now by the same registered opponent given the history i worry that without moving forward with this proposal we may find ourselves in the same debate again years from now while the building continues to fall into further disrepair thank you whenever you're ready okay uh dear council members name oh i'm sorry the uh my name is noam krasnianski um 919 10th avenue north um some some pete um and i oh i haven't been sworn in no i had to if there's anyone else who hasn't been sworn in please stand up and be sworn at this time my apologies i do thank you so much we start again so my name my name is noam and my wife and i moved to st pete two years ago sold everything and put all our life savings into purchasing this beautiful abandoned historical church one night while searching online for homes i stumbled across this church and i was immediately taken by this by by its beauty i was struck by it before we made the decision to purchase though we didn't take it lightly we met with derek from the historical department we spoke at length with paul reese our architect today and asked every question we could think of and did as much research as possible buying the building was also its hurdle because the previous owner has three failed closings they didn't take us seriously but we got it done derek wrote to us from the historical department and what he said struck struck us he said an events venue is the next best thing after going being a church and in his staff report his department recommends approval on our project along the way we work hard to resolve issues that were of concern to neighbors not only did we get a 10 year lease for 27 parking spots as of late and also got four agreements for businesses close by we have now a total of 195 off-site parking spots we met with preserve the berg and most important advocacy group in st pete and they support our project we also met with the euclis sample neighborhood association presented our plans and gained support for many neighbors we collected tons of signatures of support and we have been actively involved in the neighborhood association in their events and volunteering we even had three open houses to listen to our neighbors concerns and show them what we were facing this is where we want to put down roots we're committed to this neighborhood and as part of the adaptive reuse we will be living here with our family we have been sharing our journey on instagram we have over 5 000 followers from st pete alone all of whom are excited about this project and its potential to make a positive impact to the city we had three hearing dates cancelled on us for our cpcc hearing hylene and milton not only further damaged the building but pushed everything back for us we have worked night and day weekends and holidays and never in a million years do we think saving this building will be so much work currently this building is a 98 year old paperweight no one can do anything with it it's totally dead inside but if you let us change the use by her 100 year anniversary it could be a beautiful building with a ribbon cutting ceremony where the community can come you the councilman can come the mayor can cut the ribbon and with great celebration the entire neighborhood neighborhood will breathe a sigh of relief that we saved her by the barest margin in the and the world will be a little bit brighter dear council members we really need your help and support today help us save our church which is our st pete church thank you thank you next two speakers are patricia winens and irene prinansky please go to the podium on your right state your name address and whether or not you've been sworn in for the record you will have three minutes to address city council hello my name is patricia winens i am sworn in my address is 8172 bayou drive in seminal i grew up on 16th avenue for about 15 years so i'm not too far and then my daughter lives on 15th avenue currently so we are local i am also a local business owner i do dog care i can't tell you how much this kind of business affects me personally as a local business worker okay so i'm shaking a little but um i am patricia i am my family's in the neighborhood there is so much information on social media that we thought this would be fun uh good to share with you although a few people are here to speak against the project hundreds don't feel the same including coming a little distance 100 um in this time where being on one's phone is so easy coming in person and speaking in public has lost its power these are the some um comments that are on social media very disappointing this has been has such potential uh some of these are a little bit iffy i wouldn't say these words but this sucks a definite missed opportunity for saint pete anytime saint pete loses a historic hundred-year-old building saint pete loses a piece of charm forever hasn't this been sitting and falling apart for years now what a shame develop developments like this are exactly what saint pete needs while tall glass buildings are inevitable this is exactly the kind of project that would keep saint pete saint pete we must prioritize opportunities that preserve our city's unique character that's so sad and lack of foresight on city's part it was originally a church and churchgoers had to park um there was some more there i'll skip that how would this negatively affect the neighbors there won't be much people there than it was a church looks like the perfect place for weddings and as a daughter of a 25 year old trying to find a venue it would be perfect and also as a traveler uh for local say florida places saint augustine even new york um i went to boston this type of place is ideal for my family thank you thank you irene krasnansky 9 21 10th avenue north i've been sworn in good evening members of the city council my name is irene krasnansky i'm the co-owner of this beautiful church my family and i moved here from los angeles and i know when i mentioned that i always hear a remark about developers coming from la or new york coming to saint pete and ruining the city but i want to share why we really moved here we moved here for my son he has a degenerative neuropathic disease and when we came to see pete to look at it we noticed how kind and tolerant people were towards him which something that we didn't experience in la i remember a moment in publics when a cashier saw that i was having a bad day and she simply said you're doing a good job mom and that moved me like you don't have that kindness in la so for my son's future we decided the accessory building next to the church would be a good place for him to live it will offer easy access which is essential as he continues to face more challenges having a child like this changes your perspective on life um it helps you focus on what really matters and most of the time that's exactly what we found here in saint pete people who want to help and not hurt but i am concerned because i have heard this be being said over and over again and i take pause because these are the words that i hear we aren't opposed to preserving the church in fact we'd love to see it restored but and that's really hard for me because those words just slip off the tongue so fast i mean it's not like there is a magical wand but ding now the building is restored um it does take back-breaking work it takes years and it takes a lot of money so i am concerned i've also seen these comments on on social media which also worry me i quote i instead the church should be demolished and used for residential living or i'm in favor of tearing down the church and building multi-million dollar homes in the in its footprint and this isn't just like a mirror uh difference of opinion right at this point it's not just like working through a parking problem this is extreme to say you want to demolish this historical building to me is scary and i wouldn't want to put the fate of this building in those people's hands the church needs a purpose something that can help support the costly repair and upkeep that it requires without a viable plan it might be lost forever if we're run off by the opponent the opponent the opponents the people who oppose this i don't see anyone else ready for this fight this was freaking hard so saint pete saved us and now we want to save a piece of saint pete that's corny i know we're simply asking for your approval thank you next two speakers next two speakers eric bowen and lisa o'donnell please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council and please state if you've been sworn in hi my name is eric bone 1421 14th street north i have been sworn in uh city council members i appreciate the opportunity to speak today in opposition to the euclid church redevelopment and the negative impacts it'll have off site now i want to be clear in general i am not opposed to investment and redevelopment in fact i'm a huge fan my job i'm an accountant and owner of a public accounting firm and i routinely advise investors and developers throughout the tampa bay area i am one of the biggest fans of development and redevelopment that you will find this project is not a well thought out plan let's start with parking or rather the lack of it unlike saint paul's church which has a parking lot we know euclid church does not now the developer plans to rely on street parking which is already being used by residents effectively displacing them during events if you look at the pictures that were shared earlier with the google street views you can see they were taken during the middle of the day well a view during the middle of the day when everyone is at work versus a view taking on the weekends on the weekend or in the evenings when people are home from work shows two very different stories as i'm sure you can imagine the agreements the off-site parking areas that they have secured are non-binding and could disappear at any time leave the neighborhood to deal then with the consequences and being a historic neighborhood as we are the narrow streets and limited parking will only worsen congestion in our historic residential area and will do so on nights and on weekends when children are playing and that could be dangerous to them let's talk redevelopment um man i'd love to see this church be redeveloped i really would but sometimes preserving a neighborhood and what that neighborhood is like is more important than preserving an individual building the church is crumbling and it's an eyesore and yes it's sad but what's the highest and best use it's most likely residential and as as much as it pains me to see a historic you know site such as this being torn down i think it's in the best interest for this to be torn down and turn into residential units houses in this neighborhood are selling for upwards of two million dollars on new builds perhaps if they pivoted built new homes redeveloped that that could have a better impact on the neighborhood without the traffic issues without the noise issues another major concern is the short-term rentals now st pete in general has been historically been opposed to short-term rentals yet this project would introduce multiple short-term rentals it's not fair to to the residents who have apartments who have adus and who have followed the city regulations government should not be in the business of regulating who gets to follow the rules and who doesn't and finally there has been a concerted effort to silence opposition online by the neighborhood association you know when opposition services comments related and neighbors are kicked out of social media groups this is not how you how you have fairness this is not how facts presented and this is not how how you should run a neighborhood association in conclusion i support support the reinvestment decision thank you thank you thank you hi my name is lisa o'donnell um i have been sworn in i live at 1421 14th street north um i don't support the euclid church proposals due to two major concerns been repeated over and over um the first is parking and the second are short-term rentals both of these issues um primarily from the euclid um association board has been i know they sent in paperwork yesterday but their approach seems to be a trust us it'll be fine approach um but let us start with with the parking they've mentioned that they think parking stickers are the answer great well who pays for the parking stickers who enforces them are the police going to ticket are they going to tow or will there just be an occasional warning um meanwhile in two years when all these temporary parking agreements with local businesses businesses expire or get revoked what's the plan then shut down the venue of course not the neighbors will just be out of luck with regard to short-term rentals they're not allowed in the city and as eric had already um mentioned i mean we have an adu but we don't use it as a short-term rental because you know they're not allowed let me not not transient rentals of less than 30 days um so this neighborhood is not zoned for transient stays most most notably but that hasn't stopped short-term rent rentals for some members of the euclid st paul's board or their neighbors so forgive me if i take their approval of this and their reassurances with a grain of salt and let's talk about how they handle dissent it's been mentioned by eric by other people when residents myself included dared to question the board's alliance to the new owners allowing them for example on resident only groups we weren't just ignored we were kicked out of neighborhood discussions entirely on facebook transparency at its finest here folks so i asked the city to take a long hard look at the proposal and what it might look like in a few years the neighbors deserve real consideration not just vague promises and selective rule enforcement thank you the next is remington martin and best of silver please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record you'll have to your minister address counsel and please state if you've been sworn in how's it going uh remington martin address 2600 first avenue north and yes i have been sworn in uh first off thank you guys for giving me a chance to speak here i'm actually on behalf of backstreet's capital we're a local real estate development group in the family office of will conroy and craig share i wanted to stand before you today in support of noam and irene's appeal and their efforts to restore the euclid church this historic structure holds immense architectural and cultural value yet in its current state it is rapidly deteriorating and we feel that we may risk losing it forever if it isn't for immediate action at backstreet's capital we've worked on several preservation deals here in the city most notably we're working on a 1937 k down built home located 250 mirror lake that we actually just got our permits approved we'll be starting that this week so we understand firsthand the financial logistical challenges that these projects bring but in our opinion what makes it extraordinary is that noam and irene are not only willing but they're eager to take down this project at a time where so many historic structures are being abandoned or demolished we should be supporting those who are committed to their revival the city has a real opportunity here not just to protect the building but to preserve a piece of our shared history we at backstreet's capital strongly urge you to support this appeal and allow the euclid shirts to be restored before it's too late once again thank you guys for your time um that's all we have to say thank you becca okay she is four thank you the next speaker is stephen springington and ryan james please go to the podium on your right state your name address for the record i'll have three minutes to address council and please state whether or not you've been sworn in my name is ryan james i live at 1214 10th street north good evening council and fellow neighbors uh yes i've been sworn in um i live just a block up the road from the church about 400 feet away um and forgive me here you've probably heard all of this and i i'll save you from reading most of it but uh for many years i've watched it deteriorate um i was overjoyed when noam and irene were gonna restore it um they truly love this city and chosen the church to build their dream there and making it an event space uh now when people hear the word event space they immediately think nightclubs djs and to my understanding that's not this um you know like just imagine for a moment seeing people get married there again like loved ones sharing memories and even be able to walk there for coffee and lunch instead of having a drive um or like even like a violinist playing like true performance arts where people waltz and jive like we used to um public speaking wow not my forte but hey but yeah this space is the opportunity special um truly to showcase the arts and the culture that saint pete's cultivated over many years a space that i believe us neighbors will actually want to be a part of once we see what it becomes um i understand the concerns of the opposed but irena gnome are kind honest and considerate people take into account all of our needs and concerns um we just need to sit and talk with one another um yeah because what's the alternative that thing gets condemned and we lose a piece of history and saint pete loses a piece of itself that's made it what it is i was asking if you just give them a chance you know let them breathe new life into it anyway thank you so much i'm for the mixed use of the reason who's the first steven steven springston steven springston all right let's call the next two and he's four thank you madison johnson and kevin johnson please state your name and address for the record you have three minutes to address council and also please uh state uh whether or not you've been sworn in my name is madison johnson i lived at 1100 10th street north for about nine years and i have been sworn in and blocked on social media as well i'm here today to strongly oppose the rezoning and redevelopment of the euclid church the current proposal is simply too intense too invasive and too disruptive for a residential neighborhood this is not a quiet sunday church of yesterday where parking lots are now homes nor is school for children and parishioners it's a full-scale event party venue with seating for over 170 people on the lower level and an additional 50 plus upstairs that's well over 200 late night partiers drinking dancing and spilling out onto our residential streets and into our front yards how long before we see increased noise complaints public disturbances property damage or even tragic accidents involving drunk driving the plan grossly underestimates parking needs providing only several seven reliable spaces we have no parking garages or meters like the downtown corridor guests will not park off-site they will choose what is convenient to them flooding our streets lining them with cars in front of my home her home their home their home where will the band florist photographers caters and other vendors set up these logistics haven't been addressed because they don't fit in within the limits of this neighborhood but wait there's more on top of the event venue this project includes seven transient short-term rentals essentially an airbnb compound bringing revolving door of strangers into our neighborhood a large commercial grade kitchen with the potential to operate as a business a bed and breakfast a bakery a detached secondary residence shed and if that wasn't enough monthly outdoor gatherings for 75 plus people or more now they want to increase the floor area ratio push density beyond its max yet provide zero additional green space this is not responsible development this is an unchecked opportunistic overreach and who exactly is supporting this not the neighbors many of those in favor are not local at all they are out-of-state individuals capital investors which we've already seen and of course the developers and other businesses who stain who who stand to benefit from business relationships the six members of the neighborhood association provided a redacted list provide preventing any verification that these so-called supporters even live near the church in the comment form they circulated it did not disclose responses would be used to push their agenda they disregarded the 115 direct neighbors who are pleading to protect their homes and preserve this family-oriented community approving this project has as proposed would prioritize outside investors over actual residents who will bear the burden of this consequence the scale density and intensity of this development are simply too extreme thank you fred bacon and manny lato please go to the podium on your right state your name address and whether or not you've been sworn in for the record you'll have three minutes to address city council hello everyone my name is kevin johnson i live at 1100 10th street north and i have been sworn in um we live two houses down from the church and that's a good place to start right the church we've all heard a lot about it lately a lot about preserving the church and that's a pretty admirable slogan right what what heretic wouldn't want to preserve a church uh but lost in all this discourse is another type of preservation that's gotten far too little attention in my opinion and that's the neighborhood itself does anybody want to preserve that i certainly do in fact most of the neighbors that you see here today and a hundred plus others that sign the petition they do too that's the kind of preservation that's most important to me i want to preserve the neighborhood i want to preserve the quality of life for the neighbors inside the neighborhood and i want to preserve their ability to quietly enjoy their homes and if this effort to preserve the church ruins the very neighborhood that it's in then what is the point of all this so 200 random people can come get wasted and listen to pitbull every weekend now i know there's been a lot of talk about studies right ooh studies we've got dozens of pages of studies but i'd like to consider a different kind of study and that would be posing a question to the room which one of you would want a giant 200 person pitbull pump and party palace plopped right next door to your home within arm's reach but wait before you answer i've got a parking study with a diagram oh and look a sound study this one has a chart and by the way i'm pretty sure the sound study was done with a microphone not dissimilar to the one i'm speaking in right now it's completely insane and ridiculous i know what my answer is and if i wouldn't want it for myself i certainly wouldn't wish it upon my neighbors because after all that's what a neighborhood is all about we look out for each other residential areas exist for a reason commercial areas exist for a reason and if we start arbitrarily blurring those lines we might as well build our next neighborhood inside of a walmart i hope this council stands with our neighbors i hope this council upholds the cpbc's correct decision and decides to vote to preserve our neighborhood thank you all very much for your time and but i meant no offense to pitbull by the way good evening my name is manny laso i'm the executive director of preserve the burg i appreciate um the opportunity to speak with you this evening and i'll be uh very brief one annie we need your address oh i'm sorry 3302 north ridge avenue and i have been sworn um we did submit a letter of support for this project to the cppc that should be uh in your packet and i just wanted to uh reiterate our our support uh for this effort you know normally we are here before you to try to keep somebody from tearing down a historic landmark and in this case are we here to actually support an individual who wants to keep a historic landmark in place um and i just want to kind of touch on a couple of things one a project like this is exactly what your adaptive reuse ordinance exists for i mean that's why it was created um so this is a perfect example or use case uh to put that ordinance uh in action i also wanted to touch on a couple of comments from from other folks one is um you know somebody had mentioned you know when they fixed up their building that the surrounding area improved from that one building and we have a name for that in historic preservation it's called a halo effect and oftentimes what you see is one building improves and it improves the corridor and the properties around it and we we think that'll happen here the other thing that um you know i think should be taken into account which some other folks have mentioned and one of the reasons why we decided to support it is because it is already zoned uh for use as a church and as a previous speaker mentioned um you know there are sunday services there are weddings there are sunday school there's birthday parties i mean there's all kinds of things and that use could happen without any change um so that that's another reason why we're lending our support and the other thing that i want to remind the council is that this is a historic a locally designated historic landmark so while and derek can clarify while it would be um not impossible to tear the building down but it's not likely that the building will be demolished so that means you've got to figure out a way to use what you have and this is a a great option uh for that and then my last point uh someone had mentioned you know this sets a dangerous precedent well it doesn't because the the code is specifically addressing adaptive reuse of a historic structure so this is a historically designated landmark and you have a code provision that allows for that so approving this does not then mean that some other building that is not historic then automatically gets this same treatment this is a special use case to preserve a a historic landmark and i think that should be uh taken under advisement so uh we would stand with staff and we would recommend that this be approved thank you oh i'm sorry next two speakers my name is fred session i live at 1260 10th street north i've been sworn in i actually happen to live in a hundred year old bungalow turned 100 last year so i'm stupid i know a little bit about old houses more than i should your address uh 1260 10th street north the decision made by the commission to deny the zoning changes owners of the church property sought remains the correct decision for our neighborhood if that decision by the zoning commission is overturned tonight residents of the collar neighborhoods ringing the downtown areas will lose their quiet in the evening they're parking nearby their residents and a safe traffic flow past their homes once that zoning is changed and neighborhood residents impacted by the operation of that business will be at the mercy of event parking and traffic flow noise from in and outside the complex and curfew enforcement after celebratory events on a residential street the opponents to overturning the zoning ruling have gone on record with our names in our addresses it's only fair the same information be provided by those incognito submissions turned in by our neighborhood association how many are in close enough proximity to be impacted by traffic by parking by noise and operations and will become a part of our daily existence are there any conflicts of interest which exist among those submitting their incognito approval guess what we don't know it's incognito what events will qualify as acceptable for the 200 plus patrons in the short-term on-site tenants across krasnansky's want to host what on-site activities become something nearby residents have to tolerate we don't work for the historic committee and the preservation committee we actually live in the neighborhood we're real people what assurances do we have once that zoning is overturned will on-site bachelor or bachelorette parties qualify remember it stopped being a church many years ago so let's call it what the krasnansky's want to turn it into an entertainment complex this is not notre dame or sistine chapel you need only to look across the street to see a preservation project the city can rightly be proud of a former school building repurposed to an apartment complex it's providing housing for renters of this city who need affordable desirable places to live as the city continues to grow along its downtown corridors apples to oranges comparisons with the saint paul catholic church and school campus a few a few blocks away further into our neighborhood don't hold up either its hours of operations or activities are not remotely what's being discussed for the former church turned entertainment complex any comparison is disingenuous once zoning changes are granted our neighborhood will be at the mercy of subsequent operations changes put in place what those incognito supporters don't want is affordable housing a couple of years ago your city council voted to allow mlk street corridor to be developed to a greater density for the purpose of creating more affordable housing there are plenty of places a few blocks away to get married in the city new affordable housing for residents of this city is still needed and on thank you next two speakers please next two speakers are fabio card dennis and paul reese please go to the podium on your right state your name and address and whether you've been sworn in for the record you'll have three minutes to address city council hello my name is paul reese uh 68 22 22nd avenue north saint pete uh yes i've been sworn in my name is paul reese i'm the architect of record for the treehouse um i was also the architect of record for the previous developer at the site uh way back in 2017 18 19 and whatnot um that initial developer uh proposed a mixed use building multi-family living units um over offices in a small coffee house however despite our best efforts as you've heard the current registered opponent rally neighborhood and the project was blocked we pivoted removed the commercial use and redesigned it for only multi multi-family although that proposal was approved without the offices the cash flow wasn't there and the development cost could not be offset with enough income and the project did not make it once the previous developer decided to not move forward with the project they put the property up for sale that's when i started to receive weekly sometimes daily calls from interested parties and a lot of them toured the building with me the building was a sad repair then and it only became much worse as the months turned to years and the damage to the building increased the level of neglect shocked them and when they calculated the high cost of repair and the historical restoration each and every one of them realized that it wasn't feasible for their project either um then i met gnome and irene they bring a lot to the table and far far beyond what i'd seen during the previous version of the project they don't see this building as a project from which to profit they see it as an opportunity to preserve a meaningful and iconic piece of saint pete's history they see potential where others saw only complications um they they have vision they have commitment and a personal collection to the building um and the community they're going to live here this is going to be their neighborhood um and they're giving it their all to to bring this thing back to to life and and help the community in that way um this is not an easy or inexpensive project they've signed up for and i i think on our first call i actually said that to him this is a tough one and he wasn't they were not swayed they wanted to do it and and they were ready to move and to bring it to fruition and they must if they want to save the building um and then they have to move fast because the building is about to be deemed unsafe and structurally it's in dire shape structurally um the structural repair drawings are complete but they can't won't start if they don't get approval so the building's life does hang in the balance um it's been talked about before but one of the key elements to making this project possible is the city of saint peace municipal code 16 1630 020.1 they want on adaptive reuse and the city defines the purpose of adaptive reuse as encouraging the retention thank you thank you very much good evening my name is uh fabio cardenas 68 22 22nd avenue north and yes i've been farming um i am a i am part of the architectural team for this project and as mentioned earlier the activities and events being proposed tonight are the same as those that took place while the church was active um i have a short video an audio to show you demonstrating that amplified singing the bands drums music and events were held at the church so can you please uh play the video i'm not getting any audio from this the next two speakers is peter belmont and william hobus please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address counsel and please state whether or not you've been sworn in good evening peter belmont 103 wildwood road southeast i've been sworn i don't know if you're looking at me like i guess i have to start with um been two years plus since i last spoke to you and i last spoke to you it was uh somewhat propped up at a table from oregon um when you were giving me the key to the city which i so much appreciated and uh who knows maybe that was it i was supposedly terminal uh and here i am so miracles happen um i'm here yes to support the reuse uh to pick up a little bit where mr leto uh left off council has not made the decision very often to individually designate landmarks um derek maybe you can correct me is it 120 odd or 140 odd individual landmarks in the city so a former council made the decision for this building it doesn't happen often it means it's special what else is special about the city are our traditional neighborhoods they are diverse they're diverse in uses they're diverse in people they're diverse in incomes and so different uses are part of our traditional neighborhoods churches neighborhood retail mixed use apartments single family that's what makes our traditional neighborhoods what they are and so when i used to think about euclid st paul i used to think about it's one of the city's wonderful traditional neighborhoods it happens to be anchored by two churches uh the church at issue today and st paul's um and so as has been mentioned it could be a church today in terms of a permitted use um i don't view the requested uses to be all that much different meeting hall community assembly facility it sounds like a church to me but as has been noted as it's an individual landmark it's not likely to turn into affordable housing it's not likely to be torn down because we discourage demolition of landmarks it's difficult it's not likely i don't believe to be turned into a reuse project of residential we have a reuse project of residential um that will be starting at westminster in the old northeast we have one in crescent heights they're a different church much smaller this is a large church its limit uses are limited and so i hope you will consider this feasible for the building and feasible for a traditional neighborhood thanks and it's nice to see you again next good evening council my name is william kobus i live at 1120 10th street north so maybe 300 feet from the church have you been sworn in and i've been sworn in yeah the second time around so uh where i live is was called bartlett orange plot it was orange groves 1924 came that school across from the church 1925 came my house i live in now i thought i had the oldest but he beat me by a year i just found out tonight so when i when i step out i see the church i used i've been there 25 years and i used to hear the music coming from the church and it carried well so i don't know how much soundproofing is going to work um and and i did speak with noam one time at the espna meeting and he he indicated that parking is not going to be a problem and then he said that he had some uh letters of intent with uh saint anthony's church so i go by there i even went in there today it's locked it's uh it's a construction site there's no cars there's just construction vehicles storage uh large pieces of material the cars are never going to go in there you know first of all it would be a hip a violation by the hospital secondly what are they going to let their insurance go up for you know a couple bucks no so the point here is that traffic is not going to be solved by these letters of intent and then i'd like to come to that halo effect i heard today and somebody else said a community is uh born uh this community that we're in was grown and and turned it into a beautiful place 25 years ago it was a rough neighborhood and the halo effect was the community that's around that church and if this church comes in and you let the genie out of the bottle it's going to be horrific for us living 52 weekends a year with traffic overflow um you know thank you okay uh just quickly before we go to the next two speakers i was told there's a uh somebody wishing to speak on zoom during quasi judicial um we we don't take speakers via zoom so i just want if you can hear me i just wanted to give you a heads up that's why we haven't called you let's go to the next two speakers please next two speakers are anna struford and amir jamali please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record and whether or not you've been sworn in you'll have three minutes to address city council anna struford 1124 11th street north i have been sworn in good evening council i am the current president of the euclid st paul neighborhood association i am here today to read a statement on behalf of our board of directors as the leadership of our neighborhood association it is our duty per our bylaws to preserve enhance improve and beautify our neighborhood after very careful consideration we have concluded that we have no objections to this application regarding the euclid church however we do have conditions that would require a strong relationship with the city and the applicant in order to make it mutually beneficial this matter has been considered with sensitive sensitivity to those that live within close proximity of the property and with the knowledge that this historic building in this corner of our neighborhood are in desperate need of revitalization several factors led us to this conclusion many neighbor to neighbor conversations neighborhood comments that were solicited and collected by the association email we had in-depth discussions with city staff and we witnessed treehouse development listen to and address our neighbors concern and finally we considered the past reuse applications regarding this historic property the knowledge that the zoning is exclusively tied to the historic structure and its current state we echo the sentiment of the registered opponent and neighbors who have expressed concerns regarding parking and traffic flow these are paramount in considering the future of this area however these issues are not without solutions should we move forward with this project we need traffic mitigation plans that protect our neighborhood one-way designation no parking resident only parking and relocation and relocation of the ride share spot to 10th avenue many of these traffic features already exist in our neighborhood and around due to the presence of our very active saint paul catholic church and school located three blocks to the interior of our neighborhood the church currently serves an average of 1 100 parishioners every weekend and 385 students the majority of whom must be dropped off and picked up every day by car this is in addition to the many scout meetings aa meetings weddings funeral it goes on in conclusion we have no objections to this application with consideration that the city and the developers work with our neighbors to provide solutions to make this reuse possible we urge you city council members to consider the long history of vacancy of this treasured historic building that bears our neighborhood name it has deteriorated long enough in closing this statement was written edited and approved by a majority vote of the euclid st paul's neighborhood association board of directors a copy of this statement a spreadsheet of our comments collected through an open form no stance required to complete the form was submitted to you for public record in addition these are the only official response that were responses that were verified by our board to be neighbors and they were collected by our board thank you for your time thank you good evening uh this is amir jamalik engineering 4308 honey vista circle tampa florida 336 24 uh i've i've been sworn in thank you so this is amir i licensed engineer and certified planner in the state of florida and i also worked as a transportation planner with pasco county for a couple of years where i was involved in so many land development projects i'm here to share the results of the traffic study one of those ridiculous study that i've conducted for this project basically to determine the number of parking spaces required for this project i used ite parking generation manual which is a widely recognized industry standards based on the ite a meeting hall would typically require 72 parking spaces and while this project is proposing minimum 203 on-site and off-site parking spaces for exceeding the requirements and recommendations for the six unit bed and breakfast ite recommends seven parking spaces which is exactly aligned with seven on-site parking spaces for this project to ensure a conservative approach i've used cons in conventions and convention center and hotel as a comparable land use categories for this project both of which have higher parking demand than a typical bed and breakfast and a meeting hall so this shows even in worst case scenario this project has is providing more parking spaces than enough as an engineer and planner i understand the parking availability is a key concern for any land development project even especially for the neighbors that's why this project goes above and beyond the land city code and it recommendations with 203 parking spaces i'm sure there is no risk of overflow of parking into the adjacent streets in addition and this project is providing 180 a parking space and an area dedicated area for rideshare parking which improves the safety accessibility and traffic circulation so i'm confident that this project will function efficiently and support the nearby community thank you next two speakers are babair hayter and leslie curran please go to the podium on your right state your name address and whether or not you've been sworn in for the record you'll have three minutes to address city council uh good evening my name is barbara hyder i live at 1101 10th street north and i've been sworn in thank you for your time and your consideration my name is barbara hyder my wife and i live three houses down from the church council i urge you to respectfully reject this appeal my wife and i moved to saint pete from austin three years ago not knowing a single person in the city today are we took a leap of faith in the neighborhood and today we call our neighbors our best friends that's a testament of how beautiful this neighborhood is and why it needs to be preserved as a residential community city council i ask for your empathy and consider yourself in the shoes of those directly affected how would you feel with the possibility of a hundred drunk people next to your house your children your and your pets how would you feel with your street cosplaying as an uber valet lot all it takes is one incident one fight one drunk bad apple to put our neighbors in danger as a former austinite we see this appeal as a slippery slope it starts with the church and then suddenly an entire block is turned into commercial properties like we saw in several historic neighborhoods in austin something that started in the name of preserving historic historical residential buildings lead to their destruction please remember the community planning and preservation commission agreed this project does not justify the disruption to the neighborhood the cppc took significant time to consider the merits of this project and ultimately rejected this proposal and they are the experts in land use city council please affirm their decision to put it simply the juice is not worth the squeeze thank you good evening i'm leslie curran 1234 dr mlk street north and i have been sworn i don't know if you want to swear me in again um thanks for the opportunity to speak to you tonight one thing that's for sure and that's the fact that the euclid st paul neighborhood is fantastic i had a laugh when monsignor gibbons was here earlier talking about the condition it was in 25 years ago and the barbed wire around the school i went to that school when there was barbed wire around there i don't know whether it was put there before or after i entered but it was there at that time my children went to st paul school and currently my business is located right on the alleyway between um mlk and 10th street so when i first start you know for years i've been there four and a half years now actually almost five and renovations of the building but i'd go by the church thinking what a shame it was and heard of all of course i even called about buying it that's where my gallery was going to be but then i don't have a sugar daddy or anything so i kind of went right down the tubes but instead i located in a 1925 building that was completely restored and when most people come in there they think it's brand new and it's not and it was just law offices changed to mixed use so i think that you know on one hand you think of this project being in the middle of the neighborhood but as you can see from all the diagrams and all it's really on the edge of the corridor between the mlk business district and the residential area there's been a lot of discussion about parking and i know that everyone would like to see uh parking legal documents that say they have contracts with all these businesses when i have events at the gallery i have no contracts with anybody but all the surrounding businesses work together and i think that's really the key and someone talked about the businesses and residents working together and that's really what it takes and we get together they know when we're having events we tell people when they come with heavy pieces of art to bring in it's easier to go in the flamingo lounge parking lot and i tell them as long as it's not happy hour you're good to go and really being located there i've had no trouble with noise from the flamingo i'm between the flamingo and an airbnb hooks restaurant is right there a very busy alley the ones that have given me the most problem have been the residents directly behind me in the apartments in the alley always cleaning up after them taking care of the broken furniture they leave out there things of that nature so i was i'm thrilled that somebody is finally going to make something of that historic property thank you and congratulations to the new councilman the next two speakers is leslie hyder and uh she's against and does not does not want to speak um it's kim kaperczak and tc salus please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record we'll have three minutes to address council and please state whether or not you've been sworn in i'm kimberly kasperczak i live at 10 39 10th street north and yes i've been sworn in thank you for your attention i know it's getting late but because we're all here you can see how important this issue is to us i want to talk about noise okay the gnome and irene's original application lacked any consideration of the noise their massive event space will generate while i've yet to see a meaningful plan they did however add a sound study proffered by someone named dorian wolf mr wolf calls himself an independent senior sound consultant but failed to provide any qualifications more troubling to me he works for a tampa-based music production company which only stands to benefit from the creation of yet another entertainment venue here are some problems with his sound study mr wolf played pink noise or what sounds like ocean waves inside the church through a microphone at 90 decibels why he used 90 decibels is unclear the average live performance sound level is 100 to 110 decibels peaks often can reach 115 keep in mind for every 10 decibel increase the sound to our ears doubles so real sound levels are double and triple what mr wolf used in his test and the cdc says prolonged exposure to just 70 decibels can damage a person's ears second no consideration was given to the lower end frequency sounds that's the pounding you hear from the pickup truck next to you at the stoplight maybe pitbull those bass sounds are more annoying because we're more sensitive to them they also pass more easily through walls and other surfaces because they have a much bigger wavelength mr wolf also doesn't address unamplified noise the delivery trucks backing up the event planners talking on their mobile phones the clanging of equipment getting loaded and unloaded all day possibly every day but all this talk of decibels is really just noise the study's irrelevant mr wolf found outside levels more than 15 decibels lower than the ordinance limit of 72 decibels but there is no city ordinance limit of 72 decibels regulations based on decibel levels were removed from the city code in 2008 thankfully saint pete now uses a common sense standard according to current regulations confirmed this week by the police department a noise disturbance is any sound that annoys or disturbs a reasonable person of normal sensitivities we keep hearing about this high-end wedding space but let's be real this space will be rented to whomever can afford it and for whatever reason frat parties bachelorette parties rock concerts raves whatever none of these activities or events are appropriate for our neighborhood so please please deny this appeal thank you hi my name is tc sales i have been sworn in 105 oakwood drive my name is tc and i'm here to address the concern raised about the need for buffering between the church and the property at 1021 10th street north it is crucial to look at the full context of this situation the historical designation of the euclid church was granted just before the homes were built behind it in fact the congregation had already been in full decline at the time the neighbor who now expresses concern about the proximity of the church to her home never experienced an active congregation or the vibrancy of a functioning house of worship the church had already lost much of its original presence in the neighborhood by the time the homes were constructed the church didn't oppose the houses built behind it both 20 and 80 years ago but maybe it should have the church never thought the residential development encroaching upon its space would then become its enemy so the developers proceeded without hesitation building on every last inch and as close to the church as possible now years later these neighbors are highlighting a lack of buffer from the very church that was here long before them one point that must not be overlooked is the fact that the neighbor who is now requesting a buffer couldn't possibly have missed the towering imposing presence of a three-story church right next to the property where she was touring to then buy the church has always been a dominant feature in this area virtually impossible to overlook its size and location the property at 1021 10th street north is located next to mlk street a designated commercial corridor and having commercial use next to it not a new or unreasonable condition and it should not be the basis for denying this application the church has always been adjacent to the commercial properties like now the gas station and the paint shop i'd also like to point out an important fact that these businesses bring movement traffic and noise the trash truck for the gas station picks up directly behind the garage of the neighbor and all the trash bins being picked up in the alleyway and so forth passes behind all the neighbors houses okay noise this church as it stands today is not contributing positively to the community instead it is in a deteriorating state and it's hindering the neighborhood's growth and vitality vacant decaying buildings do not serve the interests of preservation community enhancement or economic development we cannot stand by idly and allow this historic structure to continue to fall in further disrepair i urge you to consider the broader benefit to the entire community let's ensure this historic thank you thank you thank you next two speakers is laura turner and tom turner please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council please state whether or not you've been sworn in okay uh laura and tom turner my husband beside me and we're at 1025 10th street north in st pete we are 50 feet from this church the back of the church second house um and we have been sworn in um we would like to ask you to deny this petition uh the commercial part and all of it um we first of all tommy is from st pete and has lived there all his life i'm a native floridian his grandfather was one of the founders of st pete george turner you will see his name at demon's landing um and tommy owned the garden with his two brothers until 1999 when the city bought it uh so we did weddings and uh we sat down with gnome and irene i understand what they're doing i appreciate what they're trying to do i understand it and it's a beautiful building on the outside but uh it it it won't work that venue will not work there if it was going to be anything residential i don't think these people would have any objection but um we our houses are very close to the street and we hear what everybody says on their cell phone walking by uh these people if it's going to be a wedding venue they should be able to have a good time and watch their daughter get married if they're staying in those rooms and they're going to party down and they should but this should not work in our in our neighborhood this is in our neighborhood and you are our council members and um i just i just really uh respect what they're doing uh if it's as far as the um the leases or the intent to park we told them our problem was parking commercial and noise and he said i said why don't you do what westminster did or something like that you know and or the apartments across there and he said i'm not a developer so um i just don't think it is for that we will have no peace we will have nowhere for anybody to park to take care of us tom is has a disabled permit he has hearing aids um you know and we are going to need somebody to take care of us so um it just i think would ruin the neighborhood our our alley is so busy right now we can't even back out we have a small apron and a garage but we can't even back out i have a film of him hitting almost hit a cop the other day so it's it's very hard for us to imagine that this could be good for us we understand that it's going to um uh the time we understand it will run out as far as it's it's full of mold uh the lady at the that was head of the adaptive use hearing she said you know sometimes things don't last forever and when i see them and they're working with all this dust i you know and can thank you ma'am yeah okay he won't talk okay he won't can i take his time he's got hearing it no ma'am sorry okay mr chair the last two speakers is all right the last two speakers is um mark ganier and amber hurley please go to the podium on your right state your name and address for the record you'll have three minutes to address counsel please state whether or not you've been sworn in my name is mark ganier i'm the real estate broker that sold norm to church so i don't really have a position i'm sorry 2463 jonah court palm harbor florida yes i am what what i want to try to convey to people is i've done this seven times i've sold seven churches and i've watched every one of them fall apart and become assisted living facilities one state of house of worship of seven i've been through this scenario five times there is a halo effect we've got a guy that spent a million one on a facility that is dilapidated that wants to save it and put the character back in it and i thought everyone would be a static i really did i was shocked to find out there was opposition none of us like change but when someone is sitting there and every day it's a dormant facility and they've been there five or six years and there's no activity they're used to that and people don't like change there's got to be some compromise between the homeowners the surrounding homeowners maybe with ccnrs maybe you put regulations on if you're going to have an event you have to have a police officer there to the events over some ccnr some direction to try to make it work for everybody involved instead of just letting the church get torn down it's going to get torn down the hedge funds going to suck it up and when the hedge fund sucks it up that's the next stop you can't make it affordable housing it's too expensive there's there's got to be a compromise maybe some hard ccnrs on the approval process and maybe the surrounding homeowners can participate in the structure of the ccnrs they put five million dollars in that facility there's going to be a bunch of homeowners that three or four years later say you know yeah i oppose that bet i'm real happy now it's there okay that's all i have to say thank you thank you hi i'm amber hurley and i have been sworn in and i live at 1500 11th ave north in euclid st paul um i had a very long spiel about how i was against this project in the beginning i was really opposed to outside developers coming into st pete and doing this in our neighborhood um and i have really come around to the project after spending a lot of time reading the documentation speaking with neighbors um i'm really lucky to be a part of the neighborhood association i'm not speaking on behalf of the neighborhood association association in any way but it gave me the it's given me the opportunity to meet so many neighbors across generations across economic boundaries across social boundaries and uh the more i talk to neighbors about this project the more it became clear to me that those in opposition are very loud but those in opposition are very few in number compared to those who are in favor of the project and i really am um proud to join those neighbors i'm proud to join preserve the berg and so many others in supporting this project i support it because it's consistent with the historic preservation element of the comprehensive plan and i know that projects like this are exactly why we need we had the historic element of the comp plan in the first place and i just want to say you know all of the issues that are being raised today parking noise all of these have solutions you've heard that again and again we as a neighborhood have to be open to finding those solutions because otherwise the church will sit and the church will decay and it will decay until it is eventually gone and it will be replaced by homes that yes cost one and two million dollars and none of us could afford um so i don't want that to happen um i'm really proud to join our neighbors and to be in support of the project so thank you all for listening i know it's been a really long time but you can see that we just love our neighborhood so thank you thank you last speaker the last speaker is casein watson he does not want to speak and he's against okay thank you okay so we'll go go ahead and close public comment we'll move into cross examination we'll each party all have five minutes to cross examine staff no cross the opponent yes because i do have some cross questions for the applicant please okay um after reviewing the transcript from the cpc hearing when i asked if they had considered residential use i didn't get a clear answer to my question and so i wanted to ask a more direct question did you repeat the question i'm sorry yes i was going to ask wouldn't you agree the applicant has not pursued residential options available in this zoning district including single or multi-family living options i'm going to ask you to repeat just one more time yes yes would you wouldn't you agree the applicant has not pursued residential options available within this zoning district including single or multi-family living options uh thank you michelle i don't know your last name so i'm going michelle um my answer is that a prior application has come through uh in fact paul the architect was involved with it that was for residential was for office uh the residents and michelle as i understand it stood in opposition to that request uh and because of all the resistance that developer never moved forward that's my best answer are you aware of the that the prior only owner was granted permission from the city to take the subject property and apply it apply an adaptive reuse for multi-family living thank you i'm only aware of the prior application that came through uh which was not followed up on because the many reasons that have been discussed tonight that's the only thing i'm aware of would you agree that the applicant can apply for residential use as an adaptive reuse within the current zoning of an nt2 designation my best answer again is that residential was attempted and it was met with strong opposition from the neighborhood and i can't imagine why anyone else would follow that same path thank you were you aware that the residential did not happen because the developer was trying to pursue tax incentives associated with the state historic commission and the historic commission would not grant the subdivision of the property and the tax credit simultaneously i i personally not seen any of that on record nor am i aware of it of it i read the part of most of the record of when the application came through and again my answer is the same they pursued residential it was opposed by the neighborhood there were too many uh obstacles and hoops to jump through when they dropped it like many other applicants have or many other developers and applicants have attempted has the applicant tried to use all of the available underlying uses available in the matrix in order to save this church this is a complex scenario it's not just simply pulling your finger down a matrix to figure out what may be a better use it's a complex element of economics development city government to try and come forward with a proposal that can be credible economically to bring the structure back to where it needs to be which will take millions of dollars and the wherewithal to be able to run that kind of a team which gnome has put together so it's much more than just looking at a matrix it's looking at many elements of any development let's just look at the ray stadium it involves economics it involves development it involves wherewithal and involves government many facets not just one a follow-up question for mr kilborn if i could please um so the previous developer was approved for multi-family multi-family use however as i understand it the state historic commission would not allow the property to be subdivided and grant that tax credit simultaneously is that correct we had heard that there was an effort to obtain some type of incentive through a state review but that typically when somebody is taking a large sanctuary space like that and subdividing it they are removing the historic integrity of that interior space and so when somebody is seeking a financial incentive for that type of action it usually is not approved we weren't involved in any part we weren't directly involved in any discussion but we have heard that there was an effort made at that time is it possible there are other grants available to help with the financial portion of the residential adaptive reuse yes sure there are different financial incentives either through grants or other private funding mechanisms i also wanted to ask the um the owner if he has any experience running a large private event venue i realize i'm close on time it's a very good question i know i'm new in town and um and okay so i tend to be let you answer i'm sorry i'll said i'll respond um i'm an entrepreneur i've been an entrepreneur for 40 years and i am a person that solves problems if you see my track history i have started and finished companies of things that i've never done before the the true purpose of a good administrator and entrepreneur is to solve problems that can be unsolvable to make things work and and achieve um a goal which is hard in in as you know in governance because there's so many so many so many stakeholders so i as a kid when i was um in college i did run uh events in in england i was born in england um my friends are from chile i'm a mixed mixed child and um but i don't i don't see that as um the bankers also also said oh you really that's not your profession and i said but but you need an entrepreneur that can actually a surmount the goal the barriers to make an unsolvable problem solvable because nobody has been able to solve the problem so i am here a yeah i think that's the answer yeah thank you the answer is no then is that correct okay so we're gonna time's up so we're gonna move on uh applicant would you like to cross examine no we'll pass thank you okay all right so now we'll move into uh rebuttal or closing marks each party will have five minutes to make closing argument or rebuttal staff any closing remarks i do several uh try to address some of the different points that came up i'll start by saying that you know the purpose of the adaptive reuse provision in the city code is to encourage the retention and productive reuse of historic buildings especially buildings that add historic architectural or cultural value to the community rather than demolition because the use of the building has become functionally obsolete our commission this council knows that there have been many actions related to church properties in recent years and in part because these buildings do have unique architecture they have unique configurations and so they do present very unique challenges and the adaptive reuse section of the code acknowledges that and tries to provide flexible options for consideration in this case there's been a lot of reference to the 2019 action so i i thought i'd give you a little bit of detail about that in 2019 there was a request for adaptive reuse it did include 12 multi-family units and eight office workspaces there was neighborhood opposition at the cppc hearing but the application request was approved to accommodate those eight workspaces there was a map amendment that then came forward to city council um there was debate around that map amendment and so the applicant withdrew um their request prior to a final decision from the city council so the commercial part was never decided but those eight workspaces were then converted to eight multi-family units and the project was approved and recognized for 20 multi-family units obviously they did not proceed with their multi-family proposal i cannot speak to why they did not and whether that was a market-based reason that affects the future of the building so based on our experience with churches based on our experience with prior approval to put in 20 multi-family units when we were approached by the current applicants i did go through that past history and also considering best practices for historic preservation which is to protect the integrity of that interior space in the city of st petersburg we do not review interior modifications but when somebody can preserve that interior historic integrity that is a best practice that we will always recommend and so we did have a conversation about uh special event spaces we suggested that might be an option that could be pursued under the adaptive reuse section of the code and that is the concept that was brought to us and we were reacting to there was some reference to short-term rentals the request here under adaptive reuse is for bed and breakfast bed and breakfast does require the on-site residents of a manager or somebody who is responsible for the bed and breakfast operation if there is not an on-site resident or manager then the bed and breakfast use cannot be recognized and so this proposal is not for short-term rentals in the sense that they have their own separate set of regulations there has been no discussion about a bakery i know that was mentioned i just wanted to point that out i also wanted to say to the council i appreciate your patience with public comments this has been on a very long timeline but there have been many public comments petitions email signatures received in the last seven days and especially the last 24 to 48 hours we have tried to turn those around to you as best we could by bundling them and providing you some instructions on those packets we are recommending approval as we've described in the staff report in that staff report we did reference the historic preservation element we referenced the land use element of the comprehensive plan the goals objectives policies there and why we think this also aligns with the ldr standards for adaptive reuse i did want to point out if you're going to vote to overturn the cpbc decision just a reminder that that does require a super majority vote of the city council so require a minimum of six affirmative votes and then finally i'll close by telling you i tried to give you a table of contents in the report acknowledging that it's a very large packet and i numbered it according to the report i was submitting to the clerk's office not anticipating that the packet will be eventually 1500 pages so if you need a cheat sheet as you're discussing this i do have the digital pdf numbers that for the pagination that is on the website thank you thank you okay opponent any closing remarks council members i urge you to weigh the profound and lasting effects that a commercial rezoning and increased intensity of use so close to our homes will have on our residential neighborhood we've seen firsthand how thoughtful developments like the residential reuse of euclid school into apartments can preserve and revitalize a building all while respecting the residential character of the neighborhood but this proposal risks undermining that balance and introducing an incompatible use that will disrupt our way of life as you've heard in 2019 i was the opponent my concern was rezoning to cct1 and a commercial reuse which sounds very familiar today density intensification concerns were also cited then as they are today the previous developer had had approval for multi-family housing and i learned from city staff that was they were pursuing a tax credit with the state historic commission but the commission would not allow the sanctuary to be subdivided and offer the tax credit so a developer can still subdivide the sanctuary for multi-family living they just won't receive that particular tax credit there are other options available multi-family use is compatible with the residential neighborhood which i fully support and to reiterate there are three historically designated churches in st pete being converted to single or multi-family use if this application were to be approved there is very little we can do unamplified noise will never be something anyone can control because there's not an ordinance to control it late at night when unruly drunk and loud people leave the venue walking to their cars waiting for valets and numbers they will be talking to each other talking on their phones slamming car doors some will be slightly inebriated after the party and some will be very inebriated guest departures followed by support staff tearing down and loading out and this would be life on our street potentially every night of the week certainly weekends sundays and holidays heaven help the nearby families who are trying to get children to sleep who have school or someone working from home i've spent plenty of late night calls late night week late nights and weekends working from home on conference calls or zoom meetings i would not be able to do that work from home with party noise emanating from the building next door you've seen the photographs there is not enough physical space to proper this commercial use from residences in terms of neighborhood neighbors are people who help each other out after hurricanes they check on each other's houses when they're away and they check in when someone is sick while the church owner may live on site or may have a manager their wedding clients and guests will be on site for a few hours or possibly overnight in a transient unit they will never be our neighbors they will never have to look one of us in the eye after a night of partying drinking and smoking we will never get to know them and they will never have a vested interest in our community allowing this change this is a huge change from the churches that previously existed and regarding the owner's investment in this property contingencies and real estate contracts are not unusual to protect a buyer i know a personal use contingencies it could be based on the sale of another home or inspector's report a contingency on these requests being approved could have been added to the church's sales contract as an exit strategy we are not responsible for the owner's lack of due diligence before investing in this property and i know the city has preservation goals i'm a reasonable person as are my neighbors we are all well aware change is inevitable i'm not opposed to change i feel that preservation and conversion of the euclid school into 16 apartments was a positive change this request is not reasonable it is not a positive change it is not unreasonable to ask that you require my next door neighbor one foot from my property to continue to be zoned residential and serve a residential purpose the only person threatening demolition is the owner as i said we are not opposed to saving the church we are opposed to these two requests and to close do not let consistent decisions from the city to adaptively reuse historically designated landmarks as single and multi-family properties suddenly be tossed aside for the benefit of two individuals trying to seek the most financial gain possible i and the residents fully support an adaptive reuse for this property that preserves the integrity and historic landmark designation of the church while reusing it within the underlying zoning designation as nt2 for single and multi-family use please do not overturn the cppc's decision please uphold the denial of these requests thank you council thank you okay applicant good evening again uh mr chairman council members todd pressman 202nd of south number 451 st petersburg uh first of all i'd like to thank derek and his staff this has been a very complex involved application we appreciate their time we have the greatest respect for all the citizens both pro pro uh and against who are here this evening and speaking before you uh just a couple things to clear up real quick is the increased square footage on the map amendments that's for a unit for the owners as derek indicated there has to be a manager or owner on site uh that small increase of square footage on the map amendments is for noam and his wife who will live on site uh there is no bakery proposed uh and as well um i i think i think an important consideration again is when you look at the position of the neighbors and the greatest respect to michelle who's talked about impacts she is adjacent to the gas station as you go up along that alleyway that entire alleyway and all the homes on 10th are adjacent to crt1 that includes flamingos hooks on 9th medical spa and as miss curran said all those businesses interact and are part of that community you've heard from two sides and i've sat on many boards myself through the years and that's always a difficult decision to be in but i would suggest to you that you consider the comments from the euclid st paul neighborhood association and they've told you and she stood before you and told you that they've witnessed the applicant listening and addressing the neighbor's concerns they've considered the reuse application regarding the historic property their own poll that was done by email so we're assured that the euclid st paul people was a positive majority response for this project i would suggest you consider preserve the burg one of the most iconic organizations in the city who are strongly in support i'd suggest that you strongly consider your experience and professional staff i won't repeat the reasons for that i think those unbiased organizations and people coming forward is what strikes the balance between the two camps that you've heard tonight and finally this is the last chance to save this iconic structure which is part of the euclid st paul community i've shown you pictures of its point of disrepair you've heard from the architect it will not be saved if we don't approve this tonight so with that we appreciate your time the patience of everyone here again the staff and thank you okay so we'll go into executive session vice chair hanowitz thank you chair so i am privileged to represent district four which means that your neighborhood is in my district um i want to thank you all for being here both for and against this is what this is what really a democracy is about and i know people on both sides of this argument so whatever i decide people i know are not going to be happy with me which doesn't change anything that i do here um but look not only do i represent this district i'm well aware of all the dynamics have been talked about i've actually lived beside businesses on mlk so when i hear neighbors talk about their issues guess what i've lived it personally i've also written a local landmark designation so i've done both things and i can understand trying to save a historic building and it also does not negate considering legitimate concerns expressed by the community those things can actually exist and i hate it when i hear people put down other people because they think that their concerns aren't valid i hate that and i've heard some of that today they're real valid concerns and you know why we know they're valid concerns because we had a cppc make a decision and these are people that do this for a living and they had a difficult time with it so you know this is a difficult decision we've heard conversations about other churches that have been converted i know those churches and guess what this didn't happen why because everybody was on the same page so here we have two sides with probably valid points one way or the other and we have to parse out those facts to come up with a decision and and that's what we're trying to do here so um on adaptive reuse i know that city encourages adaptive reuse also it does not take away considering the factors that we have to consider we have to look at both sides so parking is definitely a consideration that we have to look at and you cannot ignore it you just can't and i know that for a fact um why because i deal with parking complaints in my neighborhood all the time and i've i there's residential parking permits in hona we can talk about that all night euclid st paul's board of directors gave a letter and one side said that they supported it the neighborhood said that they supported it however it's conditioned because it says here that they support it however should it be approved we need a traffic mitigation plan that protects our neighborhood including one way does designation no parking one side resident parking only and relocation of rights to your house but all these things that believe it or not just do not just happen they don't you know when we make these decisions now this gets approved that doesn't guarantee any of that happens it just doesn't so your approval based on something that may not happen it it's hard because i will tell you residential parking permits require a parking problem and i will ask legal don't they require a parking problem to uh residential parking permits are found in our code and right now they are for historical northeast some areas of kenwood and downtown and yes we do do a parking study to determine need for the parking program and we are looking at ways to expand that beyond the zones but generally we as do numerous other municipalities we do do a parking needs study before we do restrictive parking like a resident only you have to have to have the parking problems to start with and we actually believe it or not i'll give you another example left bank priest row the parking uh standards are only for the weekends i mean weekdays from 8 a.m to 8 p.m in hona so when there is a parking issue on the weekends guess what doesn't cover it so that issue happened that i had to deal with so residential parking permits nobody can rely on that and we have nothing we don't even have enforcement that we can rely on because we have just had that discussion in one of our meetings so i just want the neighborhood to understand that that there is no guarantee whatsoever about approval that any of anything that you want to happen is going to actually happen it happens here and there's no guarantee and so that i think is extremely important for people to understand parking partnerships even staff agrees not something you can depend on it just isn't it's a letter of intent it's not binding and so it is a legitimate concern and for those that have said it isn't even our staff agreed it's a legitimate concern that we have to look at and i have to look at okay what areas are going to be affected there was a parking study done the majority of the parking there is not on site it's off site it relies on other businesses what happened if those businesses that have said yeah we'll let you park sell or redevelop what happens to that what happens to the austria faces if we change the rules and if you have a parking permit residential parking permit approved what happened to those parking spaces that this relies on they're gone and you know how i know that because of all the businesses on mlk they have to deal with these issues and they're much smaller business we have and i'll tell you left bank bistro hooks and flamingo sports bar they used to have a parking attendant to make sure one didn't park in the other parking space trips had parking issues rolling notes which increased their parking space i could go on and on and on so there's always a tension on parking we can't just ignore it i just can't because i deal with it um we just right now went to the to the mayor's uh state of the city we went to the palladium no parking seriously i had to go in the neighborhood park we had reserved parking there was no parking for us and here's the thing there is parking in a what in a parking garage in downtown yes you can park in a parking garage but there is a parking garage there is no parking garage for you to park in in euclid st paul's so when you think about all these event venues that we've talked about having weddings they have contracts with parking garages so a good parking plan is actually important and we have here information there's going to be on average 180 attendees and there are a minimum of 72 parking spaces i can't ignore that so there's also the argument that which by the way recently happened the uses have been similar on the site it feels very similar to conversation we had about car washes recently because there is a car wash there we're just doing the same car wash guess what the intensity is different not every car wash is the same there's those mega car washes that have all the bells and whistles in it and there's the ones that you go and wash your car on your own that are much smaller there are ones that are in in in um in um the the gas stations so they're all different all churches are different you have to actually look at the intensity of what is being used for you can't just say well it's just a church so that i think is really important so intensity is something we have to consider um we also talked about the map i want to go into the map of my mail a little in terms of the buffers i know that one of the commissioners made that comment and i'm going to make it because they reminded me pasadena community church about pushing boundaries and where the line is and using zoning on one side to kind of push it into a neighborhood when there already is a buffer it's the same thing and i had issues with that because there are buffers there it's like well no now we just go ahead and extend extend the commercial into the neighborhood and the next time they're going to be all those commercials there we can just extend it another block and so there has to be more than that well it's just beside it it's okay i think you have to look at both sides and i just have a i had a hard time at the pasadena community church argument in terms of pushing the boundaries because i think i thought they had a good buffer and here it's the same argument again um and last i'm going to say is one of the things i want to point out is i cannot ignore the cpbc and i'll tell you the fact that we need us and i had this the same conversation at pasadena community church the fact that we need a super majority to reverse a decision whatever that decision is by the community planning and preservation commission to me is an indication of how much weight we give to that decision because they are professionals that do this day in and day out they look at all these details they're not going by emotion they're just not their emotions on both sides but you got to look at the fact and you've got to look at the numbers and so the fact that we have to have a super majority here to actually override what these professionals thought that tells you something there is to me no new evidence today that we have received that wasn't before them it's the same information and there is some of it it's just it's more pages because guess what it's repeated many times with different but it's the same information that they looked at and they had the same issues they had the parking issue and i that's the hard part for me where i don't see how that issue has been resolved and i will tell you it is a real issue even for those people that that support it it is all you have to go is go to hona and see some of the issues they have in terms of parking and when you have all the parking space and you have an older home and you have a kid which has happened to me with groceries and you can't park to get to your house and you have a baby that's a problem it really is so do they deserve also a good quality of life yeah are they just being jerks because they they don't want this developed no they actually have real concerns just like i understand that you're a business owner and you have a dream for this property yes to me i think it sounds wonderful but the issue is is that the right place for it that's the issue i think is it cool sure but is it the right place and does it have the amenities that you need for that business where it's at given the conditions of that area as they are right now so those are my initial thoughts that i try to condense from all the information that i received and all the wonderful comments that you have given me but that's kind of where i'm at right now and i would love to hear my fellow colleagues thank you all so much for being patient councilmember driscoll thank you um thanks to everyone who has been here for a very long time with us um we're kind of used to it many of you are not um you kind of uh get it get a taste of what this is all about when you find yourself in a um a conflict like this no matter what side of this issue you're on i appreciate you um the passion that you have for your neighborhood and i know it's it is a fabulous neighborhood i already knew that but um you are why it's beautiful but it's you that make you are the ones who make it so special and no matter what happens with this particular property this will continue to be a very unique and incredible neighborhood and we've seen why tonight no matter what side of it you're on just the pride that you have in your neighborhood that's the common ground that you have and i hope that you walk out of here tonight remembering that you do have that in common vice chair hanowitz um explained very well the the concerns her concerns about parking and i share those um reading the um the transcript from the cppc meeting i was um in agreement with commissioner wanamaker on the challenges especially of having those shared parking agreements um i think one of the letters of intent that was gathered uh in preparation for this one of the businesses has closed it's kind of a it really shows you how volatile those agreements can be you cannot count on it um the parking is um that is that is one of my biggest concerns um and then there's the compatibility now i used to live in a neighborhood where there was often a lot of that um amplified noise that i could hear from my place and there was a lot of unamplified noise late at night um trolleys buses going down my street a lot and having people take all the parking spaces out in front of my place so sometimes once in a while i'd have to park like a block or two away uh just to just to get home um and um yeah so that was the kind of neighborhood i lived in and that was downtown and that is where um businesses like this should be in places that relate to what's around it i knew i knew what i was getting into right downtown is where things like that are supposed to happen and that's another point uh with which i agreed with uh commissioner watermaker on so the cppc they had a tough job because um of what we see here tonight and some of them really voiced their support for adaptive reuse and and you could almost tell even even just reading it you could tell it was difficult because um they like i would love to see this church restored preserved and um and and put to a better use and you know you think about adaptive reuse projects that we already have here it's something to be especially proud of but unfortunately um this plan is not for a children's bookstore so we heard that as an example earlier oh how i wish it was for a children's bookstore i don't know if we'd even be here right now if it was right and if only leslie current could open could turn that into a gallery oh my god that would be amazing but that's not what we have here and we have to focus on what it is and how it's going to affect um not just the opponent but the other neighbors around it and the long-term um appeal of the neighborhood and that's where i get into the relevant criteria and i see the compatibility of use with um the properties in the neighborhood the substantial detrimental effects of the use including um the work living or working conditions in the neighborhood these are real things and i i i wish there i wish i could see a way for this because it's a great idea it's just in the wrong spot so on city council a lot of times we so we love talking about trees i think all of my colleagues um we we always all get on board whenever we talk about how we want more trees in saint pete but there's also a saying right tree right place right so we all can agree we want more trees got to find the right ones in this case it's right plan right place if we had the right plan for this structure for this property i think we could all get on the same page and say that's the right plan in the right place the plan that's that is before us tonight is something that would be right in a different place i would love to see that but really and preserving this church i'm i'm very sad to think of what the fate of this church might be um if if we don't move forward tonight because i i really love it it was it was hard before when they came when something else came to us um on that that residential and co-work space but this isn't it um preserving the neighborhood is more important and um given what we have in front of us i just i haven't heard anything that um would make me feel differently so that's where i stand on this um to wrap things up i would like to know from the city attorney's office um could you please just for clarification with with everyone and maybe it should wait but at some point if you could make sure everyone understands since this is an appeal what the motion would need to be and then what yes a yes vote would mean and what a no vote would mean and if you want to hold it until we've got all eight here okay i'll just preface by saying i'll repeat too that that would we would ask that there would be two motions and two votes one on the adaptive reuse and one on the map amendment that mirrors how it was done at cppc they voted on the coa which you're not hearing here then they voted on the adaptive reuse application and then they voted on the map amendments and as mr kilborn indicated they can be done independent of each other they're not approving one or denying one doesn't affect the approval of the other so if we could just have one vote on the adaptive reuse and then one vote on the map amendments that would be helpful and now that commissioner givens is back i will say that usually it's a little tricky for appeals but this one is easy it's all motions are in the affirmative so you're making a motion to approve the appeal and in this case approving the appeal is approving the adaptive reuse or approving the map amendments so it's a yes to the project if you're upholding the appeal thank you and there was a note in um in staff's presentation that um the map amendment can request can only be approved if the adaptive reuse is approved in the staff presentation yes would you like to speak to that there it's uh this slide that says process explanation yeah i think our explanation in the presentation was that the zoning request the zoning map amendment request is coming in under the umbrella of the adaptive reuse so when you read the adaptive reuse section of the code it refers to a major reuse requiring a map amendment so and that's how we have been looking at the map amendment is tied directly to the adaptive reuse so if the council votes to um honor the cppc decision which is to deny the adaptive reuse proposed then we would request that you also deny the map amendment because the map amendment is tied to the right yeah okay well let's see what happens when we get there okay all right thank you thank you mr chair thank you councilmember fix sanders oh this has been a long one it has been a long one but it has definitely um been a conversation worth having and thank you so much for coming out expressing your opinion and again we've said it that we respect cppc um but i also respect the opinions and the expertise of those sitting here on the dais so when i think about this particular location it brought back a story of when i got married there was a former church that was in bad condition and someone remodeled it for a wedding venue no parking none of the above residents around it and that was the best day of my life and you know what it's a church again and it wasn't the building did not the event space did not fail for lack of use and me being in the event space i know just how important having nice event space in the city of st petersburg is and affordable event space in the city of st petersburg that's the first thing there was no parking at that venue but we made it work you know we hired a limousine company we had the valet and i can tell you quite a few people that got married in that venue and we had no issues there were no issues so i wrote a lot of notes um in regards um it surprised me to know that that built that church has gone through so many iterations of no not in our backyard i i want to preserve it but not in my backyard i love preservation but not in my backyard so i understand what the relevance of wanting to preserve your community is now i live in south st pete so you know my whole perspective on saving a community means a whole lot to me but they don't ask us all the time we don't get that option all the time and that's the first thing that came and i i want to say thank you for wanting to live on the site which means you're not going to have anything and everything going on in your home that's where you will lay your head that's where your son who is facing challenges will live so i can't see you having pit bull in your house i can't see any of that um i know we had a location before us that we're building and that was the biggest concern was the noise and parking but we still build downtown all the time and lord knows we have no parking and we approve those all of the time when we talk about the noise ordinance there was one project that wanted to build and the residents spoke their truth and i appreciated them so you know what we did as a council we said we'll approve it but you can't have an outside bar you can't have noise above above we gave stipulations to that have we tried that i don't know but knowing the fact that we have a church that we would love to preserve the historic beauty of it as long as it's not in my backyard it's historic for a reason it's been there for a very long time being on this council for example we had the psta bus station they build around it and guess what they wanted us to do move it we have the storm water site south st pete they build around it guess what they wanted us to do move it at some point at some point we're going to have to i wake up every morning and i i had an empty field across my from my house where my children grew up played the whole nine yards guess what's going on there now houses did i feel some kind of way about it initially i did because i didn't want it to change i wanted my community to stay quiet no additional traffic no new people coming up and down the street but reality set in st pete is growing st petersburg is growing i just can't see a rave being in this location i just can't see it especially when doing events you have the authority to pick and choose who rents your building i'm not going to believe that you're going to let anybody come in here and tear up your building tear up your neighborhood tear up your community i'm not going to believe that i refuse to believe that but we always want to pick and choose and i think that's the issue that i'm struggling with i don't want anyone to feel as though every time you don't like something every time you don't like something this is how many more people you can have come to the mic we've heard that we've had people try to come and block housing now the the the project project we had about the the car wash oh that was a no-brainer that one really was a no-brainer but the parking issue that's my biggest thing every time we have a new project is parking and yet we still approve the parking this is not a 10 12 15 story high-rise this is a place of worship weddings birthdays not a club not raves not and you're living there it would be one thing if you opened the door and walked away but you're living there your son is there your child is there so i guess that's the piece i'm trying to deal with so again the cppc made a decision and i respect them for that um i'm just trying to see if there are any options with noise being the issue just like we asked those other developers to consider removing that option of outdoor whatever music um and i'm just trying to see what that one going through my nose but that's pretty much where i am um i i i i love that day i got married in that church that was converted and it's still a church now and there was no parking there either but that was the most beautiful venue and it's still the most beautiful venue on mirror lake um that i've seen so i'm going to support it um because i want to maintain the prehistoric the the historic preservation of this building as well as give all entrepreneurs an opportunity um to be able to showcase and plus i said i'm i'm big on events we needed in the city of saint petersburg affordable places in the city of saint petersburg thank you chair thank you councilmember gibbons thank you mr chair i was just have a question for legal can you please clarify um what our city code is as it relates to unamplified noise so i just want to be clear that our noise ordinance does not calculate based on decibels we used to we do not the standard is plainly audible but it's not just a pure plainly audible or defined loud and raucous noise standard it depends on your zoning district it depends on the source of the generating noise there's different distances at which a noise will be a violation of a code at different times and so right now it's zoned a nt2 and it would be a building so noise from inside of the building after 11 p.m would be if it was heard at a distance of 25 feet or more it could be cited under our code if it was a commercial zoning district then that distance after 11 p.m goes to 100 feet or more in a residential district during the daytime between 8 a.m and 11 p.m that's 500 feet in a non-residential district we do not prohibit we don't have a sound distance during the daytime thank you for that clarification you're welcome um and again i just want to thank each and every one of you for coming out tonight don't want to belabor this or prolong the point but you know this is what civic engagement is all about us showing up and making our voices heard thank you so so very much to uh noam to irene um and to your daughter who doesn't like public speaking thank you so much for showing up and making your voices heard we we value that um i know i certainly do um i also value the opinions of our cppc members um i appreciate their expertise and their time as well um being a former neighborhood association president um i value the opinions of the neighborhood association um you all are our boots on the ground you're the eyes and ears and i appreciate you all for showing up um and letting us know where you stand on this position as well um it's a tough decision um because i have to think about the fact that you know to my colleague's point parking is a huge issue um and we don't know what's going to happen with these businesses that you have unbinding agreements with um so that is concerning when i think about the fact that you're going to have a number of folks seniors uh moms who are walking back and forth up and down that road with their children in the late hours of the night and they will not have anywhere to park their vehicles um it's concerning to know that you know this is going to be there's going to be events taking place in the middle of the day um and there's really no code as it stands um that would really protect these residents and the code as it is written 500 feet well that's michelle's backyard um so it's concerning to to think that the the decibels that's going to be played at this venue is going to be heard in people's homes um and who knows at what hours so that's concerning in my opinion um but i will have to vote in um in favor of upholding the cpp's decisions so that's my position thank you thank you council member okay um you know i i have always been one oh i'm sorry councilmember floyd go ahead no no you're fine go ahead uh i just wanted to jump in and say one thing about parking in particular um and maybe this is a question for legal but is there are rules about uh parking for uh you know uh residents like residences are supposed to have parking on site that's off the street correct our land development regulations require off street parking spaces depending on the use and the size and the neighborhood zoning district so generally the um residential neighborhood that is to the north of this was developed after our regulations came in they might have changed a little bit but yes off street parking would have been required at the development and the replatting for those properties yeah and so um i understand people not wanting a lot of cars in their neighborhood but like i park my car on my driveway every day as does my wife and that's where you're supposed to park you're not supposed to park your car in the street all the time um that's just one thing i wanted to get clarified in the conversation uh the other thing is um i generally uh i i find myself generally in support of uh the appeal uh i mean i've seen my colleagues uh you know it takes three of us to stop this and i've heard from three of us right now so i can see what that means but um i do think that uh the conversation around parking had been not quite exactly how i think of things i mean i think one thing that we have accounts as a council have tried to push forward is in places that are on corridors being more lenient with parking uh to try to uh allow people who want to use public transit uh and other means of transportation to do that i think this kind of fits into that as well so um i don't feel the need to go into a lot of the other details i understand the concerns of the neighborhood i live right next to a commercially zoned property um and i have my own issues but i'm uh uh friendly with the owner um it's a pet store and side note uh when we voted to ban rabbits he was really upset with me rabbit sales he was really upset but um but i i do find i have a good really i do have a good relationship with them and when we have problems we work it out uh very quickly um and problems come up all the time so i'm very sympathetic uh but i did just want to get on record like i generally am in support of uh easing up parking requirements and making sure people's homes have places where they're supposed to park and they're parking there and trying to encourage people to use alternate transportation and that's what i think this project is kind of uh put out there um but i won't belabor the point i've heard from my colleagues and so we can i'll leave it there for now thank you chair thank you council vice chair just one point in terms of parking in in my neighborhoods all the homes do not have parking in the neighborhoods because a lot of them are historical and they had like garages for a buggy so a lot i'll give you an example in crescent lake the house we had we had to park on the street because you'd have to fit a buggy in that garage like 1920s it was built in the okay i was about to be like wait you mean like i don't know t model whatever they had back in the day so like it was small and a lot of people a lot of people use them for storage so like if you go on on crescent lake you'll see like 20th avenue you'll see a lot of those homes they won't have the garages that you think about in some of the newer homes so that that's why a lot of the park in the street same thing with hona so that's yeah that's kind of the issue councilmember gibbons mr chair really briefly i just want to say uh in closing we won't always agree on everything and i can't remember who said this earlier may have been you lizette but i just really hope that you all can come together and find some common ground after tonight um i feel the passion um you can cut it with a knife um so all of you love your neighborhood and i really hope that and i think it was your daughter who said earlier irene that the solutions are there and it may have even been dad you just got to find them right and it's going to take you all coming together and actually talking and having conversations to find those solutions that's going to make everyone happy so i know you won't always agree but hopefully you can find some common ground thank you mr chair thank you okay um first of all thank you everybody for coming out um both sides of this um county vice chair hannah what's talked about pasadena community church was in my district and you know this is so very similar but so very different all at the same time uh especially with just how many people on each side of this and so uh i will be brief i won't belabor the point but i i have been historically a massive um believer in the cpp c i sat on the cppc for three years i understand their their their passion their knowledge their expertise i also and it's been said on this dais before i also very much when we talk about these types of situations look to the sitting council member of the district and i i really believe their knowledge of their own district i lean heavily on that i will be honest coming into this i i didn't know where i was going to land even with even not knowing where vice chair hanowitz was but knowing where the cppc was um just because the history i want to see this building stay you know as much as i appreciate the opponent this building was there when you got there there could be lots of things that happened with that building you had to be okay with all of them and so i that does not get lost on me um but i think at this point i am i am frustrated with the parking i was frustrated with the traffic in the parking when we're talking about um pasadena community church and that those were i think more more dense of what we're talking about here but just all the everything we've heard about the lois really they're not being any anything that says okay yes you're going to absolutely have those spaces along with um the the in the intensity of what could happen here i think if there were some conditions of approval i i i could move forward with this but at this point uh i i just i just can't support the appeal uh and that makes me sad but i'm just not there okay councilmember floyd uh yeah i wanted to get clarity like could could there be conditions of approval for this well there were several conditions of approval conditioned on the original application council is able to consider this application and do do conditions to the approval depending on what those may be but some of them may not be achievable so with that in mind i mean yes theoretically you can add conditions but without knowing what those may be i can't definitively answer that okay that makes perfect sense i mean some no i i understood but i get what you're saying yeah concept yes in practice possibly that's out there um i'll just state you know some of the things that i heard that i thought would be excellent conditions of approval were like and i'm just start listing them you can just tell me i'm no if i'm things like moving the ride share space uh things like oh i've got a list actually um uh outdoor use and outdoor events um so as mr kilbourne explained earlier really the adaptive reuse for the request that you have here is treated like a special exception review so yes those would be appropriate criteria or conditions to add to be able to meet criteria for approval so a requirement that any valet pickup or parking be on a certain street or preventing the use to have ex accessory outdoor space those are things that can be added as conditions though we would ask that those be voted on separately and then added to the final vote all right uh i see mr mr gima here for backup chair yeah no that was it was uh you know all things related to the use specifically and the site plan that would be you know fair game just on the adaptive reuse vote though no conditions to the to the map amendments yes yeah that makes that's i get it um okay site plan and use um the general broad categories of what's fair game for a condition on the adaptive reuse that's correct chair what i'll state here is i'm open to working to get that uh get it across the line by doing that of course i'm not going to propose anything right now because i haven't heard i like i said i've heard from my colleagues that there are some things that they feel like can't be overcome and uh yeah that's just what it is so yeah yeah so i'll leave it there thank you chair councilmember fix sanders okay so i want to make sure i'm clear since i have boldly and still agreed to support it so am so would my vote be um yes to uphold the appeal or so you'd be granting the appeal you're saying yes to the appeal i mean you would be a move of a motion to approve granting the appeal and in this case granting the appeal is granting the project that's not always the case but it is this time so a yes is a yes to the project okay good thank you you're welcome okay so at this point i'll entertain a motion so i make a motion to grant the appeal appeal okay of the adaptive reuse of the adapted reuse all right we have a motion in a second seeing no other council members wishing to speak clerk would you please open the machine for voting council members please enter your vote seeing as all council members have voted clerk please tally and announce the vote mr chair the motion to approve agenda item j5a fails four to four with council members driscoll curtis gibbons and hanowitz voting no council members big sanders floyd gabbard and harding voting yes thank you okay so we have j5b which is the map amendment i'll entertain a motion for approval chair i just want to clarify that on the agenda j5a was the land use and j5b was the zoning map but they can be so it just needs to be corrected on the vote but you can take the map amendment votes together okay thank you so this would be the map amendments correct i'll entertain a motion for approval oh well i'll go ahead i'll entertain a motion for approval second we have a motion and a second seeing no other council members wishing to speak clerk would you open machine for voting legal does it need to be corrected yeah council member floyd i want to make sure the motions didn't reference the the numbers in the agenda they made a they they met they they mentioned the subject matter yes so you just need to make the the change on the record with respect to how that was recorded that was i was making a note for the clerk that what we're seeing in the virtual restaurant representation that matches the agenda isn't reflective of the votes that were taken as a separate adaptive reuse and now the map amendment and again this is still moving approval of the appeal for the map amendments but a yes vote is a yes to the rezoning and the future latin use map amendment okay i have a question that's powerful thank you um with the the first motion failing this is just to rezone the property even though the use is not even attached to it anymore so i didn't think we had to okay all right okay sure all right thanks chair well you it could die as you could die without a motion i mean we gotta mean if we don't have to then all right well i'll remove my most die without a motion okay so motion's been removed council members any anybody else willing to make a motion okay so the map amendment dies for failure of emotion okay thank you everybody thank you all right let's give it a second i did a good job keeping this together it's much more difficult when saying yes is actually saying no if everybody could please clear if you're if everybody could please clear chambers we still have business to conduct please and thank you you i mean unless you're here to speak on open forum or you want to hang out but i'm not trying to kick you out but we have two speakers okay we're going to move into open forum clerk could you please call two speakers at a time laurie ayoub and jerry gruing please go to there you are okay state your name address for the record you'll have three minutes to address council my name is laurie ayoub i live at 419 capriway northeast st petersburg and yes i swear i've been sworn in um i'm coming today actually on request of my neighbors and other citizens well people i've talked to about the situation of permits and it's not something about what the city's doing or not doing it's about my interaction with a contractor who did a great job drying out my home but in the instance of his permitting my build that build back from the storms he said that if i wanted to expedite the permitting process i could do that through him and a third party it would cost me thirty five hundred dollars which i paid him and i called him end of last week to see how things were going and he said he was sick he was sleeping he didn't have time he needed to bring a picture of the front of my house to the city so and then and that would make the permit proceed but he didn't have time to do that so we looked into this situation we called the supposed third party they said they'd never heard of him and their pro their fee would have been eight hundred and fifty dollars so i just asked to bring this to the unfortunately nobody's here to hear this the attention of the community i mean none of the but besides you guys that this is happening and people should be made aware that maybe you i don't know someone else told me well you can't expedite if you know somebody in there but that's not really expediting that's having connections and you shouldn't be paying that for that so i was just asked to bring that to your attention and unfortunately the name of this man was referred to be my a friend their mutual friend so i didn't want to make a big deal at it because like i said the dry out he did really well and and very promptly but this is not not excusable and his name is um manual jones with southwest florida builders group which apparently has a lot of contractors when doing working under that name and i have copies of the um i don't have copy of that situation of the bill for that but i have copies of his contract um so i don't know if you want that because it has the logo of the the company on it or not that's a copy of my invoice with the logo for the company um so that was all i want to bring to your attention thank you ma'am what was your address again 419 capriway northeast and i have put the bill the permit into my name as builder owner and i've been working on that since monday i've been at the city every morning trying to clarify the paperwork it's been a little convoluted with what he handed in administrator gurus you look like you were leaning in yeah thank you ma'am we can get your information that you gave to the clerk but i would also encourage you to reach out to the pinellas county construction licensing board and let them know yeah we were yes we were advised and we could have walked it through the first day because um oh i'm excuse me i'm i'm jerry groundy i live at 300 brightwaters boulevard northeast and um i was sworn in the other thing i was if you contact the saint pete police department yeah we are going to do that the fraud division there could be others out there that's and even though the information may help them even though you may not decide to go forward you have no idea what else is going on and that may help other investigations if you're going to comment please come to the back to the mic he said that was the money for he said to jerry that was for his time yeah that's not what he yeah but but but but anyway um he mumbled he jumbled up the file so much he put it under county where this is city and he put in all these things confused the whole thing and didn't put it under people uh you know flood situation so it went to the back burner in other words and um i just hope hope and pray that they um you know i just want people aware of these people like this are around doing this stuff out there well it's negligent anyway well thank you very much for your time i'm sorry that happened thank you for coming and letting us know it sounds like council member harding's on top of it um and then we'll make sure we get your information from the clerk thank you thank you thank you okay any other speakers for open forum um needs to do it yeah you have to fill if you got to fill out a card and then you could have three minutes can he speak on that it's not part of his previous and it's closed so the decision's already been made oh you they're not the only ones the next speaker is non-con from noski name and address please yeah no i'm krasnianski uh i have been sworn in uh 199 no one nine one nine 10th avenue north okay so listen guys i i don't feel any ill feelings for whatever decisions you have to make i understand that the situation is really contentious okay and i just want to have an uh like an honest conversation okay because that's all i've been trying to do okay i i went derek said you have to go talk to the association they there's a big so i went to the association we presented the plans they gave us all the things that they were concerned i talked to michelle she she was my neighbor we i've never treated a neighbor badly the we had people that came into the building she called me she has my number three o'clock in the morning i called the police there was we arrested those people she said i live alone i'm scared i said no problem i am i'm you call me at any time you want and she did and i did address those issues i i didn't mention that because i didn't want to put her on make her feel uncomfortable because i've been taught by my mom that you respect your elders right so and and i understand that i look like the bourgeois businessman that wants to make lots of money but guys if i put my money on bitcoin i would have done four times the amount i didn't do this for money okay i do i did it because my wife i married a woman that is this a creative being she's a beautiful soul i've been married 29 years almost and she likes creative things and i i fell in love with it she fell in love with it and the truth of the matter is that we committed because i okay i don't work for the man okay i did work for the man i'm the man i guess i mean my wife's the woman really you know anybody's been married a long time no yeah just second okay so the point is that what i'm trying to say is i hired the best professional supposedly taught is like the cream of the crop and and i was referred by by this gentleman mark which is my okay that is my broker that saved me right we really moved out of la because la became i'm sorry for this there's nobody here excuse my french it smells like it it's dangerous i have i have to think of my kid so anyway the thing is we fell in love with this church so my question to you is what's my path forward because doing the lois was what legally they explain in legal terms that's what you do the building's going to take two two years to you cannot pay rent for a lease for those two years so so i go to lay out lois as a matter of fact if you didn't notice i got a 10-year lease from the last one because the lois the mrs wannamaker said had no teeth but what else do i do legally i mean i don't want to do something that is not legal you see what i'm saying and i want to take consideration from everybody so my question to you is what what path forward do i have from here because i don't i really would like this project to come through and for her to be happy so again just to be clear on the record your public hearing was closed i know you understand that i just have to say that for legal reasons and again you do still are the owner of an individually designated local landmark so your path forward is to continue to work with derrick kilborn and i will tell you that you are per our code for 18 months you cannot bring a substantially similar project before cppc so if you come back with the exact same plan you haven't changed anything we won't hear your application for 18 months after 18 months you can come back with the same exact thing if you want but any other plan any other plan that is substantially different than the one you have now and derrick can help walk you through what that would be you can come back and have another hearing at cppc so it doesn't close your avenues for that as far as legal advice council can't give it to you i can't give it to you but i just want to know the path forward and i got it will if i change those lois for leases will that change this i can't i cannot tell you that sir and your three minutes are up but i will tell you that your best options are to continue working with the historic preservation staff on our way forward okay and a church can come go can come back right i've had churches okay we i'm sorry we got it we got to close open forum i'm sorry thank you very much thank you for your time okay uh we'll go into an announcements any announcements council members i know we've been here a long time but it's council member fig sanders birthday next week i need everybody to be on key on key all right let's sing council member fig sanders happy birthday happy birthday to you happy birthday to you happy birthday birthday dear deborah happy birthday to you just so everybody knows elizabeth won our super bowl all day long okay well i appreciate everybody thanks for uh a long day and city council is adjourned