Members of the commission to please come to the dais and members of the budget advisory board to please assemble and let us begin this workshop. Is this my lunch? Yeah. Wow. Hi, Pam. God. Oh, my God. What the heck did I order? How long has this meeting going to last? No wonder the Cisco truck was pulled up. It's had a lot to unload. Okay, great. So welcome to the city commission joint meeting with the budget advisory board this April 15th, Internal Revenue Service Day. How appropriate. Anyway, so I would ask that the clerk please call the roll of the commission. Vice Mayor Herbst. Commissioner Glossman. Here. Commissioner Beasley-Pittman. Here. Commissioner Sorensen. Here. Mayor Trentals. Here. Thank you so much. And I see Mr. Brown is here as chair of the budget advisory board. Mr. Brown, would you like to call the roll of your board? Could you speak into the microphone, please? Thank you, Mayor. Roll call will be Melissa Milroy. Here. Vice Chair. Norby Belts. Here. Ross Camborara. Not present. Oliver Kale. Present. Richard D. We call him Richard D., but it's Richard D. Gerardo, I believe it's. Okay. Mildred Lowe. Desirea Smith. Okay. You want to join us on the front row? Is there room? Please. And then Patel Petit, not present, and Maloka Melinda Bowker. Okay. Thank you. You have a quorum. We have a quorum. Thank you. Great. Thank you. So there are two items on the workshop agenda, and why don't we start with business one? This relates to a communication between the Budget Advisory Board and the Commission concerning the process for vetting nonprofit applications in the budget process. So I want to explain to us a little bit, Mr. Brown, as to what you're asking for here. Okay. First of all, Mayor, I'd like to point out that this past year we brought six new advisory board members out of the ten. And so all six of the new members are present for their first joint workshop. So I want to commend them for taking the participation. And I see some old members, too, who can't let go, but that's okay. But they're there for advising consent. I understand. Thank you. So in early January meeting and February at our BAB meeting, there was some discussion with the BAB members about what participating role we will have in the budget process on non-for-profits. Just if you recall back in 1921, the BAB was asked to develop – 1921? I wasn't – 2021. Okay. I'm sorry. To develop – I think my grandparents emigrated from Greece in 1921, but that's okay. 2021. There was some concern by BAB members that there was a lack of transparency as it related to non-for-profits and the distribution of funds. So they came up with and worked with the commission to have an open process for any non-for-profit could apply. They had 72 applications that year. They did a scoring matrix with weights on what – of those 72 where they could narrow it down to I believe it was about 30 of the 72 applications. They spent three nights during that period, 19 – or 2021, early 22, reviewing those applications. They did 10 each night, and they came up with the final ranking. Some of the matrices that were used for that was – did they have matching funds, the number of people receiving programs from their organization as – were they residents, primarily for Fort Lauderdale, in programs like the Boys and Girls Club after-school program. And there were 17 new applications added into that recommendation of the budget. It went before the city commission, and things changed. So some of the board members at the time and still on the board felt that it was kind of a waste of their time doing that type of process if it didn't have a lot of buy-in from the commission. So I come before you tonight with the communication that they wanted to know now that state and federal funding for non-for-profits is being cut back. They're getting inquiries, and I believe some of the commissioners are getting inquiries from other non-for-profits that are not on that list. How do they get involved? So we're here tonight to – or this afternoon to ask you for direction on do you want any participation from the BAB into that process of the selection or recommendations to the city manager, or what direction you would like to give the city manager on how to proceed with those non-for-profits. Okay. Anyone from the commission wish to respond to the query? Well, Mayor, if I could, thank you. And I agree. I think it was just too much – I don't think it was appropriate for the budget advisory board to get involved. They did a great job. You all did an amazing work, but too time-consuming, and I'm not even sure it was necessary for this board to do that. But I have heard from folks in the community, and maybe we can figure out a way to reach out. I'm a city manager. There is a group called Funding Arts Broward, FAB. They have actually volunteered to help vet if we want to have some sort of vetting process. It's always been concerning to me that over the years I hear from folks, they go, when can we apply? What's the process? There is really no process. There's just no process that people can rely on. Typically, when people grant funds, any kind of an agency or governmental entity, there's an announcement, there's a timeline, there's a deadline, there's benchmarks, all of that. And ours is just not there. We don't really have that. But I would love for us to have a little bit more of a certain process so that people could rely on it. I know that it's difficult for us to fund everything that happens, and there are incredible not-for-profits in Fort Lauderdale. But I would like to see just a little bit more of some sort of system or something that people could rely on or even just some sort of information that people could receive and know what that process is or how they go about being even considered for any kind of funding. And as I mentioned, Funding Arts Broward said they had this whole system in place, and they volunteered, and they said if someone wants to reach out to us, we would be happy to assist. But I definitely agree that it should not be part of BAB's responsibility. So you're saying that that should just be taken on by the commission itself? My concern is that when the Budget Advisory Board was assigned the task to come back to us with recommendations, that it was sort of some of the important donations that they recommended were inconsistent with some of the priorities of the commission. And I think the frustration started from that. And since we have less and less money every year to donate to non-profits, I don't really see the list being that great. There are some priorities of each members of this commission that we can certainly put forward during the process. But I agree that maybe that's one task that you don't really need to pursue. You've got enough work on your plate right now. Anyone else have any comments on that? I have a question in regards to, I agree that that's a lot, I believe, for the BAB to take on. But also just being understanding, what is our benchmark for donating? It seems like it's one year, it's one amount. The following year, it may be higher. How do we, you know, how are we going to cap that and make it a consistent type of an opportunity? Because even, you know, whoever we give this assignment to, we need to have in place what it is we are going to donate. And then some type of criteria, how do they, you know, if it's A, B, and C, these non-profits have to meet those qualifications. And like you said, our priorities, it would meet that. So before we, well, not before, taking in consideration that part of the conversation as well. Yeah. And I think during the budgetary process, which has now begun, we can speak to our team to let them know what some of our priorities are and let them sort that through. I mean, there's always going to be a huge budget gap, and oftentimes I wonder how we ever close that, to be honest with you. But the gap becomes greater and greater every year, and so the opportunity to donate becomes less and less as a result. So we have to really lower our expectations, I think, as a commission. We certainly do our best to try to help some organizations. But I know that with the cost of our new contracts that we entered into last year with police and fire, plus all the other expenses that continue to grow, I don't know if any of the new administration priorities in Washington are going to impact any of the costs for us to run this city. But we're certainly going to see if that has any impact at all. But I really feel that to answer your question, leave it to us, and that's one less thing you need to deal with. Okay. Thank you. And I'd just like to leave with this closing point. You know, the operating general budget is about $450 million based upon the tax rate. The salaries and benefits are outpacing that property tax rate in future years especially. And with that $450 million of the operating budget, $2.6 million is non-for-profits. So as you mentioned, Mayor, yes, that delta is shrinking. And when we have to, and we'll talk about it later, of what your expectations are if some decisions have to be made on levels of service. So thank you for your input. Mayor, if I could offer a couple of thoughts on this. Sure. So, you know, I've been on the other end of this. When I was in Jacksonville, I was the finance director for the Children's Services Council up there, and we gave out tens of millions of dollars of grants. That was our function. And we had a very robust, structured program by which we did that. And one of the things that's always struck me about Fort Lauderdale is that everything we do here is ad hoc. It's a popularity contest based on what commissioner happens to like, what not-for-profit. And we don't open it up to the larger community. We don't afford new not-for-profits and opportunity to bring their programs forward. And one of the things that's always concerned me the most is we've got no criteria for measuring outcomes. I've talked about this repeatedly. We don't measure outcomes. We measure inputs. We measure activities, but we don't measure outcomes. And we certainly don't do it longitudinally. So we have no way of gauging whether the money that we spent through the years has actually effectively accomplished anything. What are the accomplishments? And, again, what we often do is we measure what's easy to measure, how many contact hours we've had. We talk about a lot of our homeless programs, how many people have we talked to. But we haven't talked enough, as far as I'm concerned, about what success we've had in administering these programs. And I know it's difficult to do that. Again, I come out of the performance management arena, so I understand the difficulties in this. But when we're giving out money, it seems to me we ought to be looking at the effectiveness of the money that we've given out over the years, and we need to look at opportunities for other people to participate in the tax dollars that are being awarded to the community. And that was why I was hugely supportive of letting the Budget Advisory Board do this in the first place. And I'm very disappointed that the commission rejected their recommendations. They put a lot of time and a lot of effort into it, and, candidly, the commission just threw it aside. And I thought that was a disservice to the Budget Advisory Board, a disservice to the robust, rigorous process that they created, the scoring mechanisms that they developed, and to the community that basically saw their opportunities to participate in government funding go away. And we simply went back to doing what we always did, which is, you know, find our favorite children and give them money. And I really think we need to come up with a better process. If it's not the Budget Advisory Board, then we need to figure out what it is. Because simply doing what we do gives us what we always get. And I don't think that that best serves the community. I don't think it's an appropriate process. It's certainly not one, again, that has any performance measurements behind it that are meaningful and demonstrate that we are actively being effective stewards of the taxpayer dollars. So I'd love to see us come up with a better approach. And maybe that's something that the Budget Advisory Board could at least dialogue around. If it's not them, who, how, and where are we going to do this so that we can do it better? Thank you. So, Laura. Mayor, could I ask you? Wait, I want Laura to respond to that. So, Laura, when we have allocated money to these various nonprofits, there's a suggestion that you don't really follow up to see exactly what goes on with our money. Can you tell us a little bit about what your processes are? Could I be a little more clear about that? It's not that we don't. We have things in our comprehensive agreement. What I'm suggesting, Mayor, is that we put measurements in there that don't talk about outcomes. I know this because I audited them. So I'm very aware of what's in our comprehensive – what's in our grant agreements and everything else. We did a very scathing audit on this quite a number of years ago because we measure inputs. We measure activity. We don't measure outcomes. And that's my point. We don't measure outcomes. Okay. So, Laura, do you want to respond to that? Sure. Good afternoon, Mayor, Commissioners. Laura Reese. There's a few things, if I may. When we transition from the BAB doing a publicly facing process to the internal recommendations, we approach it more like we do the rest of the budget where we try to take partners in the community and align the work that they do with work that the commission wants to accomplish. So, for example, we may not have a robust economic development program internally, but we partner with arts organizations to promote arts and to promote things that the city doesn't do itself. So, at the end of the day, the recommendations that come through the city manager in the proposed budget as it relates to not-for-profits are intended to be aligned with the goals that you all set during goal setting, and that's the target. So we're targeting partnerships with grant organizations that provide services that the city does not provide to accomplish results in the community around education, around arts, around services that the community doesn't otherwise see. And we do, and we do, in each of our grant agreements, have outcomes and accountability and reports that come back to staff and audits. We have financial audits that come back. All of those things are reviewed and received by staff to make sure that the public dollars are spent as they were intended to be spent. So, are there any performance goals that are attached to these allocations so that the recipient, the beneficiary, knows what to expect of them when, say, at the end of the year, to come up with a report to say, yes, we've met your expectations, we've met your goals? Is that part of the process? Yes, and each contract is written very differently depending on the service. So, for example, we partner with organizations that provide child care services, and the city's funding is used to match federal funding. And in that case, what they do is they report back the children in Fort Lauderdale that benefit from the city's match and what federal and state grants it leveraged, right? So, they're telling us how many children were served, how much state and federal grants were able to be matched with our funds, and that's what that contract looks like. When it's the case of senior meals, that looks different, right? They're telling us how many meals were provided at home, how many meals were provided in community environments. It just depends on the contracts that are written. But staff's goal with the city manager is always to align services that help our community and our services that the city wouldn't otherwise provide itself to leverage city funds to serve our community. All righty. Very good. Commissioner Glassman, you wanted to say something. No, I just want to know. You just said that you used the word outcomes. You said outcomes are a part of our contracts and measurement and follow-up? Yeah, each contract is written in a very different way depending on the service we're trying to leverage on behalf of the community. But, yes, there are in every agreement that comes to the commission that outlines how we're going to monitor each agreement and what they'll be reporting back to us to show value to our community. Okay, good. Because I previously heard that outcomes is not part of what we do or measure or look at, and now you're saying that it is. Yes. Every contract comes to you, and it includes how we'll monitor that contract. Thank you. Yes. So, let me amplify on it. So, yes, our money is used to match dollars with the Children's Services Council. So, that's an activity. That's not an outcome. Okay? Matching dollars is an activity. It's not an outcome. Those dollars were used in a program, and as a result of that, the number of children that graduate high school is an outcome. The number of young women that don't get pregnant is an outcome. The number of children that don't commit suicide is an outcome. Those are outcomes. Matching dollars is an activity. Again, to be very clear, there's a big difference between activities and outcomes. Thank you. So, let me ask you. So, if we give money to help leverage federal or state funding in, say, children's services, and we're talking about 8-year-olds or 10-year-olds, how far does your tracking mechanism go to determine whether or not they got pregnant, whether they went to college, or whether they advanced themselves in some way, that this type of program in their youth was helping to advance them in life? So, I think that's a good point. So, to Commissioner Herbst's point and yours, we track direct what we're purchasing for the dollars, which is matching child care for a 5-year-old or a 6-year-old so their parent can go to work. So, we're tracking that child care is being provided to a low-income student for the period of time, and that we're leveraging state and federal resources with local match to do that. So, now, let me, again, weigh in on that. So, if I'm evaluating the efficacy of a program, I need to know whether I should be putting – let's use round numbers, right? If I'm going to put a million dollars into a program, do I put a million dollars into a program where I'm matching dollars and maybe I'm providing daycare so that a mother can go to work, or should I be providing a million dollars for neonatal care and maybe I save 3 million children from having negative outcomes in the womb? Again, those are outcomes, okay? And in order to measure one program against another program when you're deciding what you're spending money on, you need to understand outcomes because it's great to say I've done this, but in order to be able to compare this to that, I need to know what's accomplished. Okay. Well, I just have to – I just need a little bit of clarity. So, again, you heard the examples of what was given for what an outcome is. Do we do any of that? Is any of that included in these contracts, agreements, follow-up with all of the folks that receive funding from the city? Are you agreeing with the definition of outcomes, or how do you view outcomes as what we've just heard? So, Commissioner, I do understand the difference between output and outcomes. Understanding we're managing contracts in a single-year perspective, it's very difficult to ask an organization to track those outcomes over a period of time. It would be ideal if they could share some of that, but it's hard to track a student where you provided a low-income individual with child care so their parent could go to work, what that does to them over a lifetime or over, you know, a high school career. That's not how we are currently administering those contracts. It is ideal, but what we do hope to accomplish is an immediate contract performance where we know where the public dollars for the city of Fort Lauderdale residents, we know where those dollars went, that they spent them to provide child care, and we know how much funding was leveraged and how many children were served. So that's the level that we're monitoring contracts at today. For that just one-year period of time? For the period of time that is covered by our agreement. Okay, thank you. Great, thank you. Could I just add, Mayor? Yes, yes, Raquel. So if the commission desires that we implement a process that allows a competitive opportunity for various organizations, whether they've received funding in the past or they have not, we can certainly do that in coordination with the BAB or staff can do that internally. We could potentially, because of the status of the budget development process, we could potentially do a placeholder for an amount of funds that would be allocated for nonprofits and then perhaps come up with the application procedure going forward and go through that, or we can table it until the next fiscal year budget process. Well, you know, that's a whole other subject, and I think that your recommendation has merit, but of course it's always going to be influenced by the amount of money we have available. So you're suggesting a placeholder amount, which makes sense, you know, and if it turns out that we don't have that money, then it just becomes a casualty of the budget process. But maybe we should do a placeholder amount, and that way, you know, at least we have something to work with. But, again, in my many years here, I've always known that the amount of money we're able to give to nonprofits is always going to be a function of what our income is like for that particular year and our expenses. So maybe for the purposes of the commission having the ability to give some, I don't know, have some knowledge of what's available, you know, just give a placeholder amount, and when it comes down to the final budget, we either give that amount, all of it, or part of it, or none of it based on what we have available. So, okay, I mean, that makes a lot of sense, Raquel. Thank you. Mayor, if I could? Yes, go ahead, Dan. Okay, thank you. You've been quiet. Yes, thank you, thank you. I wanted to let you all share. So just for clarity, so outcomes can be short or long-term. You can have outcomes for a year long and evaluate the outcomes of those, and outcomes can be changes in attitudes, can be impact on the overall wellness of that person. So you can do a longitudinal analysis as a longer term, but you also can do short-term outcome analysis. And I think we do do, at least when I hear from nonprofits that are supported, that there are outcome analysis. That's what I've heard. And so I think we can always do better, but you can do short-term outcome analysis. Second piece, and I mentioned this to Raquel, there are some organizations that do mayor the kind of this process for other cities in Broward County. In other words, other cities have their priorities aligned. We have already identified what are the city commission priorities for our commission. So we already have those. And then organizations will come in and help ensure that the nonprofits that are applying are aligned with those city commission priorities. And then those organizations can also help track not only accountability during the year, but also the outcomes at the end of the year that that grant funding provided. So I think, Mayor, that's another option. And I think Commissioner Glassman mentioned one of these organizations that does this, but there are others that actually work with cities to really take the burden off the city to do that and track and align. So that's another thought, Mayor. Okay, very good. Question with that. How much, what ballpark figure are we talking to secure that type of a contract with someone? You mean the... The nonprofit to over, or the organization to over. Yeah, the set aside. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what that cost is, Commissioner, but I know that's something, Raquel, you've started to explore. I mean, we can certainly look at that. I would recommend maybe a percentage of the total allocation for nonprofits. Yeah. I mean, to be negotiated with said vendor. Okay. All right. Okay. Anything else on this topic, Mr. Brown? Nothing. Okay, we'll move on to business two and take it from there. Thank you, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. As you know, this is the first of three joint workshops as we begin the budget process. Let me just say, last year we had heard from some of the certain residents that there was not enough public participation or public awareness. We have tried to be transparent, the BAB and city staff. We started YouTubing our meetings, which had never been done before, and we can't carry them live because it conflicts with another board meeting, but they are posted on YouTube. We've had very little. How many followers do you have, Bill? Well, that's it. I was going to comment. Have you become a celebrity sensation? Last month it was 82. What's that? 82 viewers. Okay. In one month. Okay. Okay. We have very little public input, citizens that even come to the meeting because we ask if there's anyone from the general public. So the opportunities are there, but it's just something that a lot of the residents don't seem to be that concerned with like we heard last year from a resident or two that they didn't feel that the budget process was open. But I think you're doing the very best to make it transparent, and this is just another one of those workshops where we meet to get some guidance from this commission. We know what your priorities are. We'll work with the city manager, and they'll build around those. But we just would like to, as we have in the past, just get some guidance from the commission on where your thoughts are. I think I'll know the answer to this one. But as it pertains to the millage rate, we've been consistent at the same rate for 18 years. As I mentioned earlier, the salary and benefits are outpacing that millage rate, that property tax rate. And at some point, if revenues for the general fund don't increase, we're going to have to make some hard decisions. The commission will have to. We had a couple nice years of the double-digit assessed value increases. I think the staff, the budget and finance they put in for this projected year, a 6.5% increase, as they did last year, assessed values and actually came in, I believe, 7.7%. However, you know, there's a time lag when those projects come online on those tax rolls. One of the things, and I just want to just point it out in looking at the revenue projections from the revenue committee, the number of applications coming before the city's development review committee for the bigger projects are not what they have been to, at what level they've been to previous years. So what's that say? Some of the larger projects are slowing up right now. It's based on the economy. The other thing is, you know, we don't know what the tariffs are going to bring on as far as the cost for us to deliver services to the city when we're building and doing things of that nature. So we just were looking for some guidance for that on what you would like for any type of stair-step millage rate or just wait another year, kick the can down the road, or what's the flavor of the commission? Well, I think your points are well taken, and we've asked those same questions every year. You know, and Laura, when she made a presentation to us last year, she showed us that, you know, the chart showed an ever-increasing gap between income and expenses. So when we enter into our future negotiations with our fire and police unions, we need to keep all that in mind as to what we can afford going forward if we need to tighten our belts or raise taxes, and in times of uncertainty, it's very difficult to expect our population to think that they're going to have to pay higher taxes. So, you know, so this is going to have to be a policy decision that this commission is going to have to, you know, discuss and consider and give you direction. At the same time, the commission would look forward to any recommendations you might provide to us in terms of cost-cutting, and, I mean, to suggest raising taxes, that's an easy ask, but where we could cut costs would be an opportunity for us to exchange in that dialogue where we could cut corners and maybe reduce the amount of expenditures that we have here as a city. We may have to defer some capital expenses. We may have to, you know, rethink some of our priorities in the CIP program, and that's the kind of advice we could certainly appreciate if you wanted to come forward and provide those answers. Okay. Anyone else have any questions to respond to Mr. Brown? And we'll also look at, with staff, additional opportunities for any additional revenues other than the millage rate, that in fees or anything, you know. Well, big sales don't cut it these days, and we can't raise tariffs. We can't raise the sales tax. But what concerns me is the conversation that's being had in Tallahassee about eliminating or reducing property taxes, and I don't know how that works. I honestly don't know how that works. If they eliminate property taxes, do we have to submit a budget every year to Tallahassee to a new bureaucracy that would have to be created that's going to review every single city's application for funding? And where is the additional funding going to come from at the state level? If they're talking about reducing sales tax, where is the income going to come from that the cities are going to be able to rely upon in order to provide the services that we as cities are charged with providing? So, you know, a lot of it just doesn't make any sense to me, so we'll just see where that goes. But since it's not before the legislature at this moment, we don't have to deal with it this year, but it's certainly something we need to be mindful of going forward. So whatever you can do to try to provide advice to us, you know, I know the commission would appreciate that. The other question that we'd like some guidance on is, you know, we met with all the department heads last month at the BAB. It was about a two-hour and 40-minute meeting. They come in. Basically, they give a quick overview of their business plan and what keeps them up at night. Now, starting in May, we'll have three meetings, as you know, with each department head to go over their wish list and their departmental budgets review process. So with that, what do you believe additional resources are needed based on? We know what your strategic goal is from the workshop prioritization, but when it comes down to what additional resources are needed, is there any guidance you would like to give the BAB and staff to try to incorporate? Any suggestions from the commission? Pam? Yes. When we talk about infrastructure, our opportunity for broadband, providing that for citywide, and, you know, I'm always bringing it to everyone's attention, how poorly in District 3 and many areas of District 3, having that opportunity of broadband, having that opportunity for connectivity, it is very poor. So wherever we can have resources to make it equitable and equal across the city, I need for us to see where we can find those funds for that. And then also, in regards to, I know we're working in a direction with our public safety, but let's make sure we do not revert any way with our public safety, looking for opportunities to continue to add police as needed, and they are needed, we know that. So keeping those at the top of our conversation for funding, where we can find those resources, those are matters that I do definitely have, voices from our neighbors that have concern, and if we can stay on that track, it will make it some smiles and some safety and some security felt in the areas. I agree. Any other comments? So just adding on to the infrastructure thing, one of the things that I hear constantly, both in my district and from folks outside the district, is our need to put more dollars into sidewalks. So this is something that's been a recurring theme. We don't have enough money. We never have had enough money in all the years I've been here. So I think it's something we need to take a more holistic look at as we're looking at where those CIP dollars go. So, and then I'll also echo Pam's comments about public safety and police. You know, one of the challenges we're having right now is with police overtime. We have consistently under-budgeted police overtime since I've been here. I've never seen a year in which we've budgeted a sufficient amount of money for police overtime. We've called this out, in fact, in budget review after budget review when I was the auditor, about the failure to appropriately fund the amount of overtime necessary to manage the city in an effective way. And particularly as we have vacancies within the department, that drives the overtime budget up even more. So please, let's focus on our public safety. Let's focus on having the right complement to folks. When we have non-emergency calls that are taking an hour to respond to, that's unacceptable for my community. As we're trying to put more resources now towards addressing the homeless issue, that means we need more personnel out there. We need the overtime for call-outs. I don't want to see our department being hamstrung because they're not giving the resources that they need to effectively do their job and protect the community. One thing I've said before, and I will say it again, the first, last, and only important job in the city is public safety. Thank you. So with that having been said, then, if it turns out that our public safety needs and our expenses continue to grow past our income, I guess this is a request that you folks are asking, are you prepared to raise taxes? That doesn't need to be the starting point. Let's look at areas to cut back that are non-essential before we start looking at the taxpayers to pay more, especially with everything that's going on right now, Mayor. I don't think when we're looking at folks in my district that are, a lot of them are seniors in condos that are facing exorbitant assessment increases related to the surf side collapse and the legislation that's come out of it, what we're experiencing on the insurance side, this is not a time when I'm in favor of doing that. What I'm saying is let's tighten up in areas that don't involve public safety, and there's a lot of areas that I could certainly sit down with the city manager and take a sharp pencil to if that were to be the ask, but I don't intend to do that. I have a lot of confidence in the city manager and the budget staff to do that, but there are certainly areas where I believe we can cut back and target those dollars more towards what I think is, again, first, last, and highest priority, public safety. Thank you. So a question on the overtime. So with overtime, you know, there's basically two options. It's increasing the budgeting for overtime or hiring more officers so you need less overtime. So, Commissioner Herbst, which one of those do you think is the right path? I'm sorry, would you repeat that again? Yeah, it was just in my view with overtime because I think it's a valid concern. There's two ways to address it, either increasing the budget for overtime or hiring more officers to lessen the need for overtime. Which one do you think is the better option? So we need to start with increasing the budget for overtime because we have under-budgeted overtime every single year since I've been here, and I've been here almost 20 years now. So, you know, if you find that your budget and your actuals don't align year in and year out, that says something about your budget, right? It says you're being misleading in the budget number that you put forward. You're telling people that this is where we're going to be. So you're either being very optimistic or you're being misleading when you tell the community this is where we're going to be. So part of it is driven by vacancies. But we don't have a historically higher vacancy rate right now in the police department than we've experienced in the past. In fact, we were running, I think, a higher vacancy rate in, like, 08, 09 in the early years of my tenure here. And a lot of that was because the folks that would have been signing up to become police officers at that time were actually signing up to go serve in Iraq and Afghanistan. So the young risk-takers were finding other places to do that, and they weren't signing up for the police department. So we were historically running a much higher rate at that point in time. That's no longer the case now. We've been doing a fairly good job on recruiting new personnel. I know we've gone to a number of badge ceremonies just recently. And I know our fire department has also done a great job on recruiting new personnel. So, you know, thank you to everybody that's been involved in that, from HR to the chiefs of both departments. So it's not just that. But there are a lot of things going on in this city that require the police department to be out there and to be present at, whether it's, you know, whether it's events that are taking place, whether it's protests downtown in front of the courthouse, you know, whether it's our spring break events, whatever it is that's driving the overtime, this is not to relieve the chiefs of our departments from managing their overtime. You know, these gentlemen run a business that's a multi, you know, $100 million business with hundreds of employees. And I expect them to manage it as such. I want to hold them accountable. But they also need the resources to do their job. I trust them to do their job. I trust them to know when they're going to deploy their personnel in a way that keeps the community safe. But we have to be honest and say, look, if it's $7 million in overtime for the police department on an annual basis, then let's budget $7 million. So let's not pretend and budget $5 million. And that's what we have done, again, year in and year out. We've set targets for the police department that are unrealistic for them to achieve. And I just don't think that's fair to them, and I don't think it's fair to the residents. So let me try to respond to your answer, your question, because I'm not sure if that was completely responsive. It's always going to be a function of shortage of police officers versus need, okay? And too often we assume that there are plenty of police officers in our ranks when, in fact, we do have a deficit. I don't know what that is. It's always a varying number from month to month. There are people who retire. There is attrition. There are all kinds of reasons. We have certainly budgeted for a full complement of police officers. And that's always built into the budget. And very often that money that's built into the budget ultimately gets transferred to overtime because we find ourselves in a shortage. But to answer your question, clearly there needs to be an assessment of how much it costs to train and recruit and hire a police officer on a permanent basis versus the temporary need for overtime. And I don't know if that analysis has ever been done, Bill, but obviously you can certainly do an analysis as to what it would cost to train and hire full-time personnel on a 12-month basis versus the occasional spike that you often need, whether it be a demonstration, whether it be a Stanley Cup parade, any of these things that come our way. You know, I don't know what that is. Are we saving money by doing overtime as opposed to hiring police officers? It's a good question, Ben, but I don't know the answer, so we should ask our police department to try to respond. Actually, Mayor, I can tell you because I've done this study, and the answer is it's always cheaper to use overtime than it is to hire more people. So within this is called within a relevant range. So within a relevant range, it's always cheaper to use overtime because you're not incurring the entire cost of a person, the equipment, the benefits. It's pension. It's all those other things. So we only allow a certain amount of hours to be pensionable. So when we go into overtime, we're not hitting the pension for that, whereas if you hire a new individual full-time, all of that salary becomes pensionable. So the entire cost of a police officer, even a new police officer starting out, I think roughly the cost right now is probably about $150,000 all in. I would much rather pay overtime. My real concern with overtime is not the cost in dollars. My concern with overtime really is the cost on the wear and tear on the officers. We're running them ragged to a certain extent, and that's why I want to hire more people to that extent. I'm not trying to hire more people to save money. I'm trying to hire more people to save the wear and tear on the officers. We're still going to have the overtime, though. Okay. Mayor? Yes, sir. I might just point out, as we talk about the overtime budget for the police department, the lion's share of that overtime budget is utilized for city-sponsored special events, such as spring break. And when they bring additional officers in on overtime for those city events, even with the last couple years where they beefed up overtime for spring break, there was never any additional dollars put in the PD's budget to offset that. So as we bring on more city-sponsored special events, there are no cost recoveries for those city-sponsored events, and that's a big gift for them. Well, we don't sponsor spring break. We manage it. Right. And, you know, I just saw somewhere the mayor of Panama City said, don't come back again, you know. So somehow, you know, the folks that come to Fort Lauderdale have been managed properly, and I thank our police and fire departments for doing the great job that they do, and Parks and Rec for providing, you know, an accommodation for those that come here and visit with us. But the special events, the real special events, like, you know, Tortuga and marathons and things like that, those are cost recovery. Correct. Right. So even though there's plenty of overtime, you know, we still haven't figured out what we're doing with the Stanley Cup parade, where there's still an outstanding accounts receivable of almost $300,000, so we're going to have to have a conversation regarding that at some point. But, you know, this is – I think that we do cover most of our overtime expenses. Whether we budget them properly, I don't know if that is really an issue, but, you know, the vice mayor is bringing it up. And perhaps in your future presentations, Laura, you can certainly come to us with some kind of line item that shows that we're trying to accommodate the expense in our budget for overtime. And, Mayor, could I add on to that? Sure. So I know – and I don't know where – I haven't looked at it now in a couple of years, and I'd like to ask Laura about this. But I know one of the consistent complaints we had historically was that the reimbursements that we got both for events but also for a lot of the joint task force that we participate in, we were not showing the revenue back to the department in terms of adding additional overtime for that. Has that been changed? Like what? What do you mean task force? So when our officers participate in a joint task force with, say, the DEA or something like that, they'll be on overtime. We get reimbursed for that by the task force, and that money goes into the general fund, or at least it used to, just into the general fund category of intergovernmental transfers, and it didn't get reflected back in the police department budget. So they weren't getting, to use the term loosely, credit for it, if you will. So I know we had talked through the years about appropriating that specifically to increase the overtime budget when we got those reimbursements. I don't know if we ever have. So I guess a couple ways to approach that. So when we develop the budget, we budget for revenues based upon historical trend. So if we see year-over-year reimbursements from an agency, we'll reflect that. And then during the year, we do quarterly overtime, and we do quarterly monitoring with our departments, including a deep dive with police into overtime. And we issue a report every quarter that shares the budget to actual on overtime. We show trends over years. From tele-staff, they track why they're working overtime. Is it staffing shortage? Is it related to a special event? So we have really detailed information we can share with you. So that's tracked really closely with them. So if there's something above what we would normally expect to receive from an investigation, and we see that overtime is trending high, we would come to you with a budget amendment to recognize that revenue and to appropriate it into the overtime budget. I don't remember seeing any budget appropriations related to police overtime, just off the top of my head. I don't recall any recent ones, Evette. Have there been any recent ones? So it probably means they're not hitting what their typical budget is, because we'd only bring a budget amendment if they exceeded what we planned to get for the year. But aren't we down to like 2% left in the police department budget for the remainder of the year, and we're like halfway through the year? Second quarter, I don't know if... So often the reason a budget amendment... Introduce yourself. Oh, sorry. Evette Matthews, Acting Director, Office of Management and Budget. Often the reason that a budget amendment isn't brought forward is because the police department has salary savings, which is offsetting the increase over time. We have seen those trends tick up, and we do closely monitor it. Like Laura was saying, as we monitor the vacancy rate going down, we try to make sure that we're adjusting for it. But to Commissioner or Vice Mayor Herbst's point, as we see grant reimbursements or special investigation reimbursements come up, we also increase, and we look at the three-year average. So it's not in a specific year, but we look at the three-year average, and as that revenue comes up, and we post it directly in the police department so that we can track it, as it comes up, we also increase the over time. So it's a function of wages increasing is how we increase the budget as well as trends that we're seeing. We've got, what, roughly 20 vacancies in PD right now, sworn officers, I think. Chief? Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, Chief of Police, Bill Schultz. And I'm happy to report, as of Friday, with the files I signed off on, we are down to 13 vacancies. That's amazing. That is great work. And we think within two weeks we'll be in single digits, which we have not been since 2018, 17, 18. Right. So it's been, since I became chief, that has been one of my top priorities. Recruit, fill the vacancies, fight violent crime. So we're there. We're getting there. So that's down to, like, one or two percent of your, because you've got, what, 500 plus sworn officers? 70, yes, anyone. So we're not quite there to one and two percent, but we're getting there. Right. And you raised a good point, Vice Mayor, that when we hire a new officer, they're not going to be realized and solo and doing their own work for about a year. That's at least a year. Right, yeah. So that's where the overtime comes in for staffing shortages. We're still filling the shifts in patrol in that regard. And then you raise another point regarding the events. There's two type of events. I think the mayor actually erases. There are the private off-duty events, so Tortuga, which we just had. Tortuga pays for that in off-duty detail. But all the other events that are city-sponsored, St. Patrick's Day, New Year's Eve, the Sistrunk Parade, MLK Parades, those are all. All the light-up festivals that we do, light-up everything. There's some light-ups. Those are all pulled out of my budget and not necessarily part of the budget. And then the other situation that we're dealing with, and I've been working with OMB on this and finance to a degree, what we're finding is our payroll system deducts automatically from the officer's primary assignment. So if they work spring break, the OT is being deducted from the Detective Bureau. So we're working out those specifics as well. So when you see a report, and I know, I believe, Vice Mayor, we gave you a report last month at your request. So that's a stipulation that I would have to explain to you and sit down and go through the line items. Just to add to the Chief's comments, for this year, I'd love to explore how we leverage resources from outside agencies through mutual aid for events that we're managing, not necessarily sponsoring, and see how we can plan for that for future years. In addition, I'd love to explore how off-duty details impact the availability of police officers. I think Commissioner Vice Mayor Herbst brought up wear and tear on officers. And to the extent that off-duty details take away from staffing resources that could be available for overtime, I'd love to see how we can manage and mitigate where necessary. How do we manage the reimbursement, by the way, on what we call in other agencies? How is that handled? Are we reimbursing them at their rates, at our rates? So if we're having, say, spring break, and we need to rely on our mutual aid agreements with Miami, Miami Beach. So Miami pays pretty well, I understand. So are we paying Miami Beach rates, or are we paying Fort Lauderdale rates? How does that work? So in most mutual aid agreements that I've seen, those agencies are providing the services at no cost to the home agency. So they're providing officers without an invoice coming afterward. So if we've got 20 officers coming in from out of town and they're going to be here for a week, we get those for free? That's traditionally how mutual aid agreements work. Bring them all in, Chief. So, for instance, this year we were very fortunate that the Florida Highway Patrol donated some troopers primarily in the late night hours downtown. I remember when DeSantis offered that up for spring break, right? And they don't charge for that. We have now a different example. We have air show coming up. So we'll have a number of Marine units, boats coming from other jurisdictions. They will be reimbursed, but that's through the private detail portion. But city manager is correct that normally when we request mutual aid, same as when we go to a jurisdiction, it's going to be in kind, such as Davey provided their mounted unit during spring break, and that was in kind. It almost sounds like Tom Sawyer, come over, help paint my fence. I like it. Right. So to the city manager's point, should we reconsider the program of private duty, if that's going to impact their availability and their worthiness, you know, to fulfill their regular job? I mean, if people go out and get hired for a private event, and you're looking around for officers to do overtime, and, you know, are you getting the response, oh, I'm too tired, or I'm not available, or, you know, what is going on there? Well, and it's multifaceted for certain, and I do agree with the city manager on this regard. Officer exhaustion is a real thing. Monitoring their wellness, very important. And this city is very busy. Parks and Rec will tell you. Fire will tell you. We have a lot of events that we have to staff, and almost every main event, for instance, the triathlon, that's a very heavily police-staffed event. And when you have officers who are working their regular 40-plus-hour weeks, and then we're asking and expecting them to sign up voluntarily to help with one of these many events, it is trying and taxing on the officers. So it is a very important question. It is something that we monitor continually. Now that we have reached what I see as peak level of events, I'm reviewing it, and I definitely will sit down with the city manager to discuss that as well, about what is best in regards to regular duty versus off-duty. I will say off-duty is important. We have officers who work hospitals, private schools, the bars at night. Those officers being present are a force multiplier to our on-duty officers, so that's very important as well. Chief, thank you for everything you're doing. I want to talk about the size of the force. So we have, what, 571 sworn officers. Budgeted. Ball-budgeted, yes. Budgeted, yep. Ballpark, do you know where we were five years ago about, like, how many sworn budgeted? I would have to look at the exact numbers, but I will tell you I'm in my 24th year, and we've certainly increased, but it has not been at a substantial rate each year. It depends on the year. There are some years where none were budgeted, and some where we were given multiple positions. So what I've also been doing is looking nationally, comparing what we have nationally. But Fort Lauderdale is very unique in that our tourism certainly is an impact. So when we look at census residential numbers, that can't be the only factor that we look at for public safety. Or even parks and recreation staffing here in this city, there's so much more that we have. Right, exactly. And that's my point is I don't, just from a layperson's perspective, I don't think the sworn number of officers at 572 is where we need to be. My view is I think we need more because we've, the city of Fort Lauderdale, so we're like 186,000 residents. And as you mentioned, that's one component in terms of determining the number of officers that are appropriate, I would think. But then the other is the tourism and the folks. I think we shared a number that on any given day there's 600,000 people transiting through spending time in Fort Lauderdale. So what I think, and Raquel, I think what I'd like to see, and maybe the chief's already done some of this, but just an analysis, are we where we need to be in terms of total budgeted sworn officers? I think we're not where we need to be. And so is, but is 572 the right number? Because I think there is a need to increase overtime, but I think also we really need to plus up our numbers. Is that a fair view of things, chief? If you're going to ask me if I need more staff, I'm always going to say I could use more staff. But it really needs to be, and this is why this is a great opportunity with the new CM coming in. That's going to give me the ability to sit down with her and really analyze where we are and where we may need to be. Yep, that sounds great. Okay, thank you. Thank you. We can certainly study that. Great, thank you. Okay, any further questions or comments? Does anyone from the board have any comments they'd like to make? Okay. Is there anything further, Mr. Brown, that you want to bring to the attention of the commission today? No, other than it sounds like if we have to look at funding of some of the new initiatives, it might be the board's responsibility to come back with some reduction of certain service levels that are non-essential to public safety, CIP projects, things of that nature. Okay? And we'll come back before you on June the 17th, our next joint workshop, where we'll work with presenting some of the forecast that the city managers will own revenue and expenditures and the bonds. And then, of course, you have the July 1st that you have to set that notification of the rate, as we've done historically in the past. And then on August 19th, we'll provide a recommendation as to what that actual millage rate, based on working with the city manager and OMB for the coming budget year. Okay. If I could just make one more comment. Please go ahead. Thank you. So, Bill, there is something I would actually like to hear the opinion of your board. We've heard a lot of information today. We've heard a lot of need, especially with regards to public safety. We have a lot on our plate in terms of what we're going to do, how we're going to look at cost efficiencies. Are there places that we can cut and still know that we're going to be providing services for the residents? But I would like to hear what you folks think about the extension of the CRA. And I say that because that's a lot of money there that comes out of general operating. And I know that there is not probably an appetite to raise the millage rate, but yet I am just concerned about how we pay for everything. And I know that we discussed this at the prioritization workshop. We came to a consensus. I was not in agreement with that consensus. However, there are millions and millions of dollars there. Can we use that money? Should we weigh more heavily on what we've created in terms of an alternative to the CRA? What's up with that agency? Where are we going with that? We created it, like, what, how many, five, six, seven years ago? How many years ago did we create it? Was it Enterprise for Lauderdale? No, no. In Best Fort Lauderdale. In Best Fort Lauderdale. When did we create that? I'm not sure its origination date. So, In Best Fort Lauderdale was created by the city commission so that when the CRA sunset, that was going to be the agency. We appointed folks to that board. I would just like to get a better sense of where we are with that. And what, realistically, can we consider? And was that consensus a good idea? I think we cut it down to $5 million. But I just would like to hear the expertise of your board weigh in on that. Thank you. Thank you. And as a follow-up to that, we have not had the opportunity to do that. We were under the impression that we would. There was going to be some discussion as to that direction at the last workshop that the commission had. But then the determination was made on that 50%. A lot of it will determine if there's any outcome from state legislation on CRAs this year. That will have a big impact. It might be a moot point. We don't know. But we will, if it's a desire of the commission, to look at that and make some recommendations because that is a big chunk of money that demands a high level of service for public safety in that CRA district. Okay. Any other comments or questions? There being none, thank you, everybody, for participating in this workshop. Look forward to our next meeting. And this meeting is adjourned.