COMMISSION WORKSHOP - Mar 03, 2026

Morning, everyone. Welcome to the March 3rd, 2026 City Commission Workshop. I'd like to call the meeting to order, and we'll start with the Pledge of Allegiance. And I should have probably done this first, but we're also going to have a moment of silence, which I'm going to ask you to stand again in a minute. We lost one of our own this morning, Chris Hoban, who's a longtime mentor of kids. Please stand. Thank you. Our best go to his family, and of course his wife works with us, and his sister works with us. It's a family affair, so we will include that in our prayer on Thursday. Our hearts are with them. Okay, we're going to go to Florida Bike Month, 2026 Proclamation, and I'm going to turn to Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor, very much. Whoever's coming forward, come on forward. Very, very, very exciting. But before I read Florida Bicycle Month, so the month of March is Florida Bike Month, where we celebrate biking and getting out in the outdoors is better for your health. But I do want to remind the Commission in the audience that Pinellas County has one of the highest pedestrian and bicycle fatality rates in Florida, with the combined deaths reaching 85 in 2021. Recent deaths in 2025 data show that at least 14 bicyclists and 26 pedestrian fatalities with 451 pedestrian combined recorded crashes. So we've got a long way to go. The county has adopted, Fort Pinellas has adopted Vision Zero, which is absolutely no deaths. We have added on to that. We have pledged on that as well. So there's a lot of work we need to do. And so with that, let's celebrate Bicycle Awareness Month. Okay, whereas bicycling plays an important role in the lives of millions of U.S. citizens, residents, and visitors by providing a means to travel to work, school, and parks, and is a popular form of recreation and exercise. And whereas bicycling helps encourage ecotourism and historical and environmental preservation through recognizing the importance of our nation's natural resources. And whereas bicycling promotes wealth, health, and wellness, and wellness, and is an important part of encouraging all citizens to develop habits of physical activity to become or stay fit, avoid obesity, and reduce the risks of many chronic diseases and conditions. And whereas bicycle and pedestrian safety has been elevated to a critical priority in the U.S. Department of Transportation to reduce fatalities and serious injuries on the nation's roadways. And whereas the U.S. Department of Transportation, Fort Pinellas, and the City of Dunedin have adopted goals, objectives, and policies to develop a multimodal transportation system that supports transportation alternatives, including bicycling. And whereas the recognition of Florida's Bicycle Month will raise awareness of bicycling and ultimately promote physical activity and healthy lifestyles by elevating bicycling as a more widely accepted choice of transportation. Whereas the City of Dunedin residents and visitors encourage in bicycling as a viable and environmentally sound form of transportation and an excellent form of physical activity and recreation. And the City plans and recommends projects to make bicycling more accessible and promote comprehensive community education efforts aimed at improving bicycle safety. Now, therefore, I, Jeff Gow, by the authority of, by the virtue of the authority vested in me by the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, and on behalf of this entire Commission, do hereby proclaim March as Florida Bicycle Month in Dunedin, and encourage residents and visitors to celebrate bicycling as a sustainable and healthy form of transportation. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission, City Manager. I'm Kathy Gadamer. I'm their Project Manager for Community Development, and I'd like to introduce a few people. Y'all know Francis, Leon Sharp. She's the Planner with Community Development. And behind me, I have Martin Calloway, David Cooper, and Steve Markle. And they're all members of the Forward Pinellas Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee. And that committee helps recognize and recommend and promote policy to other Forward Pinellas boards on behalf of all bicyclists and pedestrians in Pinellas County. So, thank you for the proclamation. And I would just like to say, on March 14th, from 11 to 2, we will be at the Lori White Gazebo on the trail. We will be with Move Safe Pinellas, which is a Pinellas County group. FDOT will be there. Forward Pinellas will be there. And Scott Daniels, who I forgot to mention before. Scott Daniels is the vice president of Friends of the Pinellas Trail. And he will also be on the trail as well, talking about the 35th anniversary. And I do want to mention that Scott Daniels was supposed to be here today, but he had a work thing come up. He gives us sincerest apologies. He is a longtime advocate of Friends of the Pinellas Trail since the start in 1980s. So, he is vice president now. So, we are very sorry we missed him. But thank you again. And we look forward to everybody coming out on March 14th from 11 to 2. Come help us celebrate. Thank you very much. One question though. Would everybody have green on? Because that will be when we celebrate St. Patrick's Day in the city of Dineen. Be a wild day. And that is one reason that we do it on St. Patrick's Day, because that's where all the people are. That's good. Okay. Bite carefully, right? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anything else, Commissioner? Okay. Now, I know this is a really exciting one. Commissioner Sandbergen has. National Procurement Month. Oh, I'm sorry. Picture. Okay. Consume the position. Now, I will turn to Commissioner Sandbergen. National Procurement Month. Not as exciting as Bike Month, but definitely equally or if not more important, right? Commissioner Sandbergen. I think I noticed when nobody approaches that it's not near as exciting as the bicycle. Oh, wait a minute. Tammy's coming. There they come. Actually, I find this one really exciting. I'm on edge. They just want to make sure you bid it right. That's right. Well, good morning, and I'm glad to see you. I'm sure I speak for everyone up here. What comes to us, I know, has been properly handled in your procurement. You do a great job for the city. It makes me feel comfortable. With that being said, let's talk about Procurement Month. Whereas the public procurement profession plays a significant role in the efficiency and effectiveness of both government and business, and whereas in addition to the purchase of goods and services, procurement adds value to the organization by performing such functions as executing, implementing, and administering contracts, developing strategic procurement strategies, and cultivating working relationships with suppliers and other departments within the organization. And whereas the Office of Procurement Services at the City of Dunedin, Florida, is committed to providing high-caliber strategic, logistical, and operational support to all departments within the City of Dunedin, and whereas procurement services and the City of Dunedin recognize, support, and practice the public procurement values in guiding principles of accountability, ethics, impartiality, professionalism, service, and transparency as established by the National Institute for Public Procurement as fundamental tenants of the public procurement profession. And whereas the National Institute for Governmental Procurement has proclaimed the month of March as Procurement Month to expand further and further the awareness of the procurement professional's role to governmental officials, the general public, business, and corporate leaders. And now, therefore, I, Stephen Sandbergen, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, and on behalf of this entire City Commission, do hereby proclaim the month of March 2026 as Procurement Month at the City of Dunedin, Florida, and urge all citizens to join the City in recognizing the role of procurement and materials management profession within business, industry, and government. Was it just me, or was there a lot of big words in that? You did really well, too. Thank you. So, Tammy, if you want to come up here, I'd like to present this. Good morning. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, City Manager, and Cohen. I'm Tammy Winston. I'm your procurement manager. I'd like to introduce to you Michael Hayes, my new buyer. And, of course, we all know less. So, I was surprised last week when I received a letter from National Institute of Governmental Purchasing. Now, where is my letter? Congratulating us. I'm just going to read a few. Congratulating us, the City of Dunedin, for a milestone of 25 years of membership in the NIGP. And we're truly honored to celebrate this with you in our profession, in a profession that continues to evolve, evolve, extraordinary pace. Your agency remains steady and a trusted force. Amidst shifting expectations, emerging technology, and increased demands, your commitment to excellence has never wavered. The steadfast loyalty does more than sustain your organization. It strengthens the entire public procurement. I'm so happy. I'm so happy in this month. And I thank each and every one of you for the proclamation. And we will continue to do a good job for you. Thank you. Hey, picture time. She does the same thing to me. It's hard to make me look good. Okay, thank you. She's trying to make me look good. Already looked good. Thank you. Okay, we are going to go to a really important one. Florida City County Management Association, FCCMA, presentation, 100 years of commission, manager, form of government. And I guess I'm okay. Nicole, you weren't introducing Matt? That's what's on my list. So, okay. Matt doesn't need an introduction. He is the former city manager of Safety Harbor. He is assistant county administrator, right? Is that your title, Matt? Correct. But his most important role today is FCCMA District 7 director. So, Matt, your game. Thank you, Mayor. When I was here five years ago celebrating with you, it was in a different building, and I didn't need these glasses to read. So, a lot has changed in those five years. So, good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioner, City Manager, and the beautiful city of Dunedin. What a beautiful day it is. Again, my name is Matthew Spohr, and yes, I serve on all those things you said, so I won't go over that. But I'm honored to be here this morning on behalf of FCCMA to recognize an extraordinary milestone. Dunedin's 100th year operating under the commissioner, manager, form of government, as recognized by the International City and County Management Association. Let me say that again. 100 years. We don't have many 100-year celebrations throughout the state in any given year. In fact, we have one or two maybe. So, you are one of few this year. So, congratulations. 100 years of professional management is a remarkable achievement. It represents a century of stability, integrity, and service to your community. The commissioner, manager, form of government, was designed to separate policy leadership from administration, empowering elected officials to establish vision and direction, while a professional manager implements the vision efficiently, ethically, and transparently. For a full century, Dunedin has demonstrated why this model works. Today, the city continues to lead through its strategy and innovation framework, aligning your long-term vision, measurable performance outcomes, fiscal responsibility, environmental stewardship, and community engagement. That intentional approach ensures that Dunedin not only honors its historic character, but continues preparing thoughtfully for your future. Under the leadership of city manager Jennifer Bramley, an ICMA credentialed manager and respected leader across Florida, Dunedin maintains a strong culture of professionalism and public service that reflects the very best of the commissioner manager tradition. A centennial milestone is rare, as I've said a few times already. It speaks of institutional strength, adaptability, and a community committed to thoughtful governance. On behalf of FCCMA and your fellow commissioner manager communities across Florida, congratulations to the city of Dunedin on 100 years of professional local government leadership. It is my privilege this morning to present this certificate commemorating this historic achievement. Congratulations, Dunedin. Thank you, Matt. So should I come down to get the certificate? So this picture is going to go in the newsletter that's going to be broadcast to all 400-plus cities and 67 counties, so however you want to do the picture, we can do the picture. So how should we do the picture? You're the boss. And how about Deputy Manager? Hey, how are you? I think it's time for a change. All right. Can I get a little closer? All right. Or me? Or me? Yep. No, no, no. I always make sure we don't leave anyone out. Thank you. I'm going to do the next declaration for munchkins. Okay, I'm going to turn it over to, and I was going to say when you were saying all those good things about Jennifer, she's okay. No, we'll turn it to our City Manager, Jennifer Bramley, who is definitely one of the best. Jennifer? Thank you very much, Mayor. And Matt, thank you so much for coming today. I really appreciate your presence here and your leadership at District 7, FCCMA, and your friendship, actually, over the years. And I have to say that Pinellas County is really impressive as far as the coordination and the support of cities. We meet every month, all the City Managers. Well, most of them. Some don't show up, and we usually go chase them down, but, and just, you know, just talk about common issues and the path forward for the county. And it's very, and also during storms, we have a daily meeting with all the City Managers and the County Administrator, and the County Ministry actually attends all of our meetings, the City Managers Consortium, which is very important from a coordination perspective. I did ask Nicole Delfino to do some research in regards to the City Managers, because I've always been curious about how many City Managers we've had. And if you look at the agenda item, there's actually a list of all the City Managers since 1926 that we could find. And there are 30 of them. There are actually 33 mayors. So it's interesting that there are more mayors than City Managers. I think that's because of John Lawrence, that huge. Yeah, that huge 24, 24, 24, 27 years. I forget what it was. But it's interesting because I was just talking to Matt that in the very beginning in 1926, when you look at the tenure of the City Managers, it was really very short. And I think they got an office, and first of all, they're trying to figure out what is this job, and when they found out what it was, they left. Or something like that. But it's actually, and we attached, and Nicole found the resolution approving amendments to the Charter to incorporate or to start the Commission Manager form of government. And I have to read this because we just laughed out loud. Why is Nicole standing out there when she did all that stuff? I don't, you can at least be. We want to do more history, but we ran out of time. At least be in the chamber, right? At least be in the chamber, Nicole. Yeah, there she is. But we were in the City Manager's office. We were actually laughing out loud when we read the resolution in terms of what the vote count was. The total number of votes cast for a Commission Manager form of government was 57. You've got to love that. Yeah. And against the Commission Manager form of government was five. So, yeah, that was the commissioners. Yeah, right. That's right. That's a good point. But I do feel, obviously, over the years that Dunedin found its way as far as this form of government. And because of the five of you and those before you exercises this form of government to its maximum efficiency in terms of policy is separated from operations. The Commission has traditionally and certainly during my time here supported the City Manager and the Deputy City Manager and the Departments. Not that you haven't called me to task. That's happened quite a bit. Yesterday. No, I'm just kidding. I was going to say yesterday. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Right. But it's never without, it's always very objective and it's always with the good of the city at heart. And so, I feel very supported as staff to run the operations of the city to the maximum utility that we possibly can with the support of the City Commission. And I'm very grateful for that. And I do, truly do feel that we are exemplary throughout the state of Florida as far as the Commission Manager form of government. So, thank you, Mayor. Well, you know I have to say something, right? Yes, of course you do. So, there's only two women on this long list. And it's you and me. That's right. And actually, sorry, Nicole, but I do have one. You know, I know where the bodies are buried because I've been around forever, which, yeah, we shouldn't say that. I guess I'm saying that. No, it's okay. So, in 2006, when I was interim, which the city had a, the Commission was pretty political right then. So, I opted to go to Pinellas County, where Matt is now, right? And I think it was Harry Gross that actually was interim until they hired Rob Despirito. So, check that. I know I'm pretty, I'm 99% positive. That's correct. Yeah. Because he finished out the rest of 2006. So, but I do, one funny story. I say this to the city attorney because when, when, in 2006, when it was very political and people, the Commission up here was fighting each other and I was the interim in the seat and John Hubbard was the attorney and he informed, and you had to see the Commission's faces based on the politics of the moment. But, um, city, the city attorney informed the Commission that actually there is no such thing as an interim city manager. When you name a city manager, that's the city manager and he informed it. And so now, you've already named this city manager, which means it takes four out of five votes to, to knock her out of the city manager. So, I literally got asked the question, if I didn't become the city manager, would I step down willingly or would they have to battle to put me out? Of which, of course, I said, of course I'm going to step down. But I did step down and I went to Pinellas County. Um, anyway, um, before they made a selection. But I just thought it was funny. So, there really is no such thing as an interim. Um, but, uh, but yeah, Harry Gross would be between Rob Dispirito and me. But, um, but on another note, um, I am a strong believer in city manager, former government. I think, um, by bringing a professional to lead the organization and lead the department directors, it's absolutely, to me, the most successful way to go. Um, and I, I think, uh, it, it does a lot to keep the politics out of it. You know, not, not every commission is as great as this commission, you know. And, and then you, and so you need that, that honest broker. And, uh, and that's what a good city manager does for you. So, um, any, anyone else have any comments? Okay. All right. Thank you. And thank you, Matt. Thanks for being here. Thanks, Matt. Thanks. Okay. We are going to go to, uh, citizen input. So, anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on an issue that is not on the agenda. Okay. I didn't think so. I figured you're here for the marina. You just wanted to have a little drama there, right? Okay. All right. Harry's faking us out there, huh? All right. Seeing no one, uh, coming forward. Uh, well, kind of. So, um, we'll, we'll close, uh, citizen input. Right. Okay. Uh, we're going to go to public works efficiency implementation status. Uh, staff presentation. Um, I know, Sue, I guess I'm starting with you and you'll bring in Harry as appropriate. Actually, may or may I make a comment? No. Yeah. No, you've had your moment. No, I'm just kidding. No, of course you can. Thank you very much. City manager Bramley. You have the floor. Um, so, so first of all, we have public works staff here. We have Joe and Mike and we have Nick and Trevor. So happy you're here. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate it. Uh, and I remember, especially Nick, um, and Trevor. I remember, um, about seven years ago meeting with the public works staff and, um, it was some difficult meetings, you recall? And those meetings, the reason why those meetings were difficult was because we really didn't have, uh, organization, if you will, within, you know, some areas of the, uh, of the public works department in terms of work orders and how to organize our time and how to be more efficient, uh, and, and which is really what the employees wanted was to be more efficient. Um, and, and I really didn't have an answer for that in terms of, okay, what we won't, you know, your priorities are what's in the best, you know, interest of the general public, not, you know, who made the call and who needs you there and those types of things. Uh, but we didn't really have the opportunity until Jorge and Sue got together. Jorge brought in Sue Bartlett, um, who have done this together at the county before. Um, who, and Harry was known to them as well, our consultant to implement, to organize and implement a system of efficiency, which is exactly what we wanted those seven years ago in terms of, and you're going to hear it all. You're going to hear, um, you know, this is, this is a quite a long presentation, but you're going to hear how we're doing that, how we've implemented it so far. I am exceptionally pleased with where we are. And I just want to state that ahead of, you know, ahead of the presentation that this is the organization that we were looking for, um, you know, as far as the department goes. And I'm really excited about full implementation and what we're going to be able to do. So thank you very much, Mayor. Okay. Sue, now it's your show. Great. Um, Sue Bartlett, public works director. Good morning. Um, I am so excited to be here, uh, because it, we've done a lot of work and I say we, I really mean we, because the staff behind me and both sides are just a representation of the, all the employees that have been engaged in this process from the beginning. It's been an iterative process. We, we talk about what we're going to do. We, uh, do it. We look at it. We get their feedback. We refine it. And then we do it again. And, um, you're going to hear that theme again and again. But what I'm excited about is that they are excited and, um, we've already accomplished a lot. Um, there's been a lot of work done. You're going to get, we're going to get into the detail. Um, Harry Lorick, the principal of LA Consulting is here this morning with me. You, uh, he came, uh, in February of last year and made the presentation about the study results. And then, um, we received consensus direction to move ahead with implementation of the recommendations. These are far beyond any kind of software. Software is just a little piece. It is an important piece. Um, but it's a tool. And, uh, to, uh, implement, uh, these recommendations. We're about halfway in the implementation. So we do have a way to go, but because of their support, your support, city manager, deputy city manager, because of everyone's support, all the, um, other departments around us, we are moving and they are moving fast. Um, and Harry will go over that timeline, but I mean, I've done this twice in other organizations. We're moving fast. So, uh, keeping up with the staff has been, uh, you know, a challenge and, um, it's a good challenge, good challenge to have. Um, you know, uh, when Matt was, uh, speaking in my head, I was listening to public works, public works, public works. Um, those things that we have been doing, they fit right into that model. And, um, and because again, of the support, your support in making these changes, um, we're already seeing return on investment and they're able to talk about it and use data already. And we're just at the beginning, the changes that we're making now in tracking a hundred percent of the time, uh, planning a hundred percent of our work and comparing the two. I mean, that, that's our goal and we're doing it. We're, it's set up, it's ready to go. Um, and we just need a little tracking time to, uh, to look at the facts and then make some more decisions, um, efficiencies. And, um, but you have been a part of that all along the way. Um, and, and they have been, and, um, again, the details coming right now, uh, I'm, I'm looking forward to the questions, um, for the, you know, the, the information that we're providing is just the tip of the iceberg, but, you know, we're open to that. And as we go along, we'll be going back to board of finance so that we can present the finished, you know, what, what we've done after the next six months. Um, we'll be looking at it again in three, but I'm just so impressed that, um, the staff has been engaged. And I mean, we even have a new, uh, you know, revised mission and vision statement that nests right inside the city vision and mission so that it just aligns. And it all aligns with the strategic plan, including benchmarking, including those, um, those key performance measurements, um, that just indicate how we're doing. So it's just a phenomenal change. And, um, to see them embrace it, even though it's hard, they have been willing to do the work. And that's plus the work in the field. That's a, you know, that's a new way of learning how to manage for all of them. And, um, is the public may not know, but as you know, public works includes solid waste and recycling, streets and stormwater in two internal service, um, areas, both fleet, which services all the city and the facilities, which is all the buildings for this, for the city. And so the department's pretty diverse, small number of people. And, um, without further ado, I just, I'm just really excited and I hope you are too. And so I'm going to turn it over to Harry. Thank you, Sue. Hi, Harry. Good morning. Good morning. First of all, congratulations. A hundred years is a big deal. That's a big deal. So, uh, so anyway, uh, uh, Madam Mayor, uh, um, and Vice Mayor and members of the commission and city manager and all the other people here, plus a lot of the, the public works people are here. So a lot of things I'm going to be talking about, uh, is related to, it's cute, isn't it? Okay. So, um, a lot of things I'm going to be talking about is related to a lot of people that are, that are here in this room. And I thought quickly, I'd just say who we are again. And it's been a year since I was in front of you and some of you were relatively new at that time. Um, so we've been doing this for, for many years, uh, since 1993, and we've worked with over 200 different agencies over the years, and we try to help people to improve. And one of the things I want to say is that since we've been doing this for 33 years, we can help people who want to be helped, but we can't help people who don't want to be helped. So first of all, the leadership makes it happen, but, but the employees did step up and do these things. So a lot of things I'm going to share with you, the success, and I'd like to take some credit for it, but in reality, the employees did these things. So, and a lot of them are here today, and, and rightly so, because those are the ones who actually made some of these changes, and we're going to talk about that. So anyway, we've done this before, well, in the Pinellas County was here, we actually helped set up a system for Pinellas County many, many years ago, but a lot of other agencies throughout the United States that we've worked with. Some of the largest in the United States, uh, LA County, one of the large, is the largest public works organization, to another one that had four people in it. So we've worked with large and small, you guys are kind of in the middle there, but we've helped, you know, we help people try to do their jobs the best. So, um, and this particular project, we have three different things we're working on. System adjustments, we're going to talk about, business processes, and also the actual systems itself. So, again, the first project we did was not an audit. We're not auditors, we don't audit anything. What we do is try to help people figure out how to do it better. People often hire us, uh, when they're talking about privatization, not to privatize them, to help the agency compete against privatization. We try to optimize the staff's ability. So, if you remember, we had the report that was done, I think we presented, almost a year ago, actually. I was looking at it, which is really surprising how quickly time goes. But we made, uh, 75 recommendations. And so we're going to talk about those. Not all of those have been implemented, a lot of them, but not all of them. But we've started down that process. So, if you remember, we gave the same graphic last time. This is the graphic I shared in front of you in March of last year. And we estimated that if you did, this is what would happen. And not all of these things have happened yet, but we're going to share with you what has happened, because this depends on implementing the 75 recommendations, which we've implemented not quite half of them yet. So, we're going to talk a little bit about that. So, um, if you look at the recommendations, we had 75 of them. We've completed 37% of them. And a lot of them are ongoing, and some of them we actually haven't started yet. And the reason we haven't completed some of them is because we've just now set up the system to track the information. And a lot of this is going to be information that comes back to some of the leadership, whether it's in solid waste, whether it's in facilities, or whether it's in public services, where the managers are going to use the data to make better decisions. But we don't have the data yet, so we can't do some of these things. But we will have it in the next couple of months. So, we have had success, and I'm going to share with some success. And basically, it's because you want it. It sounds silly, but if you're a leadership, and the city manager, and the director of public works, and the assistant city manager don't want this to happen, it won't happen. So the leadership knew what they wanted. We actually selected an automated system that matched what you wanted, which is kind of crazy, because normally people select the system, and then they adjust everything to the system. And then later, we figured out what we wanted, and then we selected the system that would actually do what we wanted. The other was we collected data in that first study that we used in this implementation. Normally, people get software, and then they have to populate stuff. We actually didn't lose that data that we collected. We actually used it into the new system, and we actually imported it. The other is that we developed the business processes first. Before we got the software, we were dealing with how do you plan work, how do you schedule work, how you do work. So we were developing that first, again. So we wanted to take the software and adjust it to the way we wanted it to work, rather than follow what the software wanted us to do. And then, of course, we have experience. We've done it before, so we helped. But the employees were engaged. And in fact, just yesterday, I met with some of the people in Solid Waste, and the issue wasn't not to use the system. How can we use it better? They wanted to make some changes. And so we went back last night, I was working with some of my employees saying, they have some good ideas. Maybe we can change it. And then public services didn't like the way some of the scheduling was doing, because they thought it could be done better. They made suggestions. So the point is, they're engaged. They're trying to make it better. They're not just trying to say, not use it, they're just trying, how can you make this thing better? And it's like everything else that you set up in a system. You set it up, and then you have to adjust it over time. So we've only been, the software's only been implemented now for three and a half months. So that's pretty fast. This is our general schedule. And you can't read that, but those are the different tasks. And basically there were tasks in system adjustments, as I mentioned. There were some independent tasks that were independent of the software. These were tasks that we identified that the city themselves could do with a little help from us, in some cases with no help from us. And then there's also the system and the setup itself. Now, we had anticipated having the software when we started, when we got the contract. However, we didn't get the software until about three or four months into the project. So we've actually only used the software for three and a half months, but we've replaced all the existing systems pretty much. Now there's ways it's going to get better. And actually we're, you know, we actually started implementing it in full on Monday of last week. And so this has actually gone pretty fast. And again, the reason it is, is because people want it to happen. And people are agreeing to look at the recommendations and try to implement them. And some of them are not easy to do. In solid waste, we're asking them to reduce their fleet. I mean, if you're doing solid waste, you want as many vehicles as you can have, right? But they realize that maybe there is an opportunity there. So there's been some hardships that they've taken, but they were willing to do those things. So some of the improvements to date are, we set up the business system, and I'm going to get into detail in a minute. The database is configured. Labor and equipment, we have optimized it, and I'm going to talk about that. Solid waste, unincorporated county support was eliminated. Now you could, so, and you might say, well, why were we eliminated? If you remember, it was costing you more to provide the service and the revenue you got. So by eliminating, we've actually saved money. And so the results to date is we've reduced the equipment by 13. You might say, okay, big deal. Well, prior five years, you only reduced one piece of equipment. So now we've reduced 13. We haven't affected operations. It's just we made sure that the, we had a couple pieces of equipment that weren't used in the whole year. You know, because people weren't sure what to do. Maybe they would need them and maybe they didn't. Frozen positions, eight positions have been frozen. It doesn't mean those positions should go away. Maybe some of them should, but we're trying to see if we really do need them because we're going to be collecting real data. We eliminated the, like we mentioned, the unincorporated county support, and we also reduced travel costs. And how could that happen? We're optimizing routes. We're reducing the, fuel's actually been reduced. The amount of fuel usage is reduced. And you say, how can that be? We're doing the same amount of work. Because the employees have figured out better ways to do it and use the information. So this is the savings to date. You might look at this, gosh, that's amazing. Equipment, $195,000. About half of that is the sale of equipment. The other half is the reuse cost of keeping the equipment. If you don't keep the piece of equipment, you don't have to keep maintaining it, put fuel in it, set money aside. The staff position, that's just a half a year. Now if you decide that you want to keep all those positions, then there wouldn't be savings in the future for that. Solid waste, just in that change in the not being serviced to unincorporated, it saved you over $100,000. These numbers are conservative. I know they look high, but they're not. The fuel and travel has been about $58,000. So right now, we believe that you've saved, both in direct money savings and then in reduced savings because you won't have to expend money, of almost a half a million already. Now, I would like to say, yeah, LA Consulting did a great job, but I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say that Public Works did a great job. Because they're the ones that had to make some of these sacrifices. Because they might think, well, maybe we do need that equipment. They weren't sure. But once we had the information, they could see it and they actually did it. So it's going to happen in the future. A lot more of an improvement can occur. We're hoping by July 1st, the full accountability will be in place. All the system functions will be in place. And we'll actually have been collecting data for a good period of time. Right now, we've only had the system in place for a couple months. But once we get about six months of data, we'll be able to make decisions. How much do things cost? What's the productivity? And we'll be able to make determinations. I know a lot of you up here have management consulting experience. You understand that. You've got to look at efficiency and a cost. You've got to look at those things and productivity. And we're measuring those things. Service level agreements, we're actually establishing those. And what that would mean is that, for instance, in facilities, we would establish, what's the basic service you're going to provide to maintain the building? And you might say, well, a department might say, well, we'd like you to come over and repaint the walls or remove some furniture, which is fine. But is that maintenance or maybe that's an additional service? Maybe that should be charged differently. And that way, they'll be thinking about it before they do it. Maybe it should be done. Maybe it shouldn't. Then the allocation, if you look at fleet and if you look at facilities, how did the departments get charged? They get charged based on an eight to ten-year-old allocation that nobody knows how they came up with it. We research, we can't figure it out. So the allocation now is, how much should the Hale Center pay? How much should solid waste pay for fleet? Right now, it's not based on actual cost. It's based on the allocation of total cost. So we're going to be looking at that with real information. Once we have real information, you can make a real allocation. So that will give you a better understanding. The other is we're going to work with the employees so that they use the system to make decisions. A management system is great, but if nobody makes a decision on it, it doesn't do anything. So the key is that the employees use the system to make decisions. And we're always seeing that employees are doing that. So once we have more data, they'll be able to make even better decisions. The other thing is supporting other departments. You know, one of the things about this city that I love coming here is you have so many great events. A lot of cool stuff happening around here. Because it's probably in all the cities and counties that work in the state, you probably do as much or more than anybody. And a lot of people like coming here for that reason. But a lot of that cost to support those events, we're not fully estimating what it is. We're not saying you shouldn't do it, but you should, at least you should know what it costs to do it. So you can make logical decisions. And maybe sometimes where other people are paying for it, they would pay the full cost. The same thing with utilities. You know, utilities are great, but public works is doing work for them that if they had a contract, it would cost money. It has to be done. So it's really not a savings per se, but it's a more better allocation of the resources. So let's look at the actual implementation, let's get ready to go. We're going to talk about really some specifics. There are four phases, three phases I've talked about. One is an optional phase. But let's talk about the phases and stuff. The first phase was getting the teams together to develop concepts and business processes, which occurred. Other was to calibrate the software, and one was to get up a plan to do it. This is done. This is completed. And if you look at this graphic on the left-hand side, on the left-hand side is what people normally do. What they do is they buy software. They change everybody's business process. It doesn't work. They keep adjusting it, and they say, well, we spent all this money on software. We've got to keep it. We'll just keep changing stuff. What you guys did, which is really smart, is you did an evaluation, and you figured out what you wanted to do. Then management started deciding how they're going to do it. Then you selected a software that would do what you wanted, and we're implementing it. That's why we're already getting improvement immediately. It's because you're using the tools that match what you're trying to achieve. It sounds basic, but that's not the way it's normally done. Everybody keeps saying this is a software system. It's not a software system. It's a people system that use software, and that's what we're working on. These employees, if they use the information to make better decisions, you have improvement. If the software runs and nobody uses it, they don't do anything except spend money. These software's not cheap. Anyway, we used the technology to assist, but not to actually do the work. One of the things that the city did when we were smart, this had nothing to do with us, is that you started saying, well, how can we get a system in quickly? What you did is start searching and trying to find who else in a competitive process in this state selected a software similar. You actually found another entity that did that. They ended up with a software called MainStar, and it's taken about three and a half months to implement it to get to replace the existing systems, almost all of them, not all of them, but most of them, and the people to track their work. Then we compiled, you know, data was compiled for the import. So this is, you know, we have a new system in place, and if you look at the implementation itself, it was loaded in September. We're only in March right now. So we pretty much have, it was in place in three and a half months, which is amazing. Most software takes years. I've got some software that not we implemented that they're decades, you know. Some of the adjacent communities around you have spent years in some of your own systems you have. You've spent years. So this has been implemented really quickly. You now track 100% of the work of all the employees. You've never did that before. This is the first time. And in the past, the best, even giving everybody every benefit of the doubt, we thought 35% may be tracked. And maybe a quarter of the amount of work you did you tracked. So if you don't know who worked on the job and you don't know how much money they spent and what they accomplished, how do you make better decisions? So unfortunately, that's where the employees were. How could they make better decisions and try to prove things? But they wanted to. I know in public services they had all these spreadsheets that they were trying to do the exact same thing the system was doing. So it was very easy for them to quickly shift over to a system. They wanted to do it all along. They just didn't have the right tool. You give them the right tools and they could do the job. Other thing with tracking equipment, it's linked to GIS. So once somebody does a service request, it immediately goes to a map. It's not you have to have GIS separate. It's part of it. And that's the way all later technology is used. You're integrated with, they do remote recording. Soop's got a little iPad. That's what they record the information on. All your employees do that. It's not used to how they do it. They put it on a paper. They'd come back. Somebody would key it in. It would go into a spreadsheet. And then they decided they had to go someplace else. They'd key it someplace else. So anyway, it's been a lot of different things. So you've done it in months and not years. It's amazing. In fact, it's so interesting that APWA has asked the city to speak on this. So Sue and Michelle are going to be telling other people how you were able to do it that fast, which is amazing. It is amazing. Most people don't even believe it. The other, and this is phase B. Phase A we talked about. We completed. Phase B is a task that were kind of independent tasks that Sue was talking about. Like you set up a mission statement. That had anything to do with us. But it tied together with efficiency. We set up in solid waste where you had three different types of truck drivers. You had truck drivers that could operate one type of equipment. You had truck drivers that could operate two types of equipment. And we had one that could do three types of equipment. Well, the three types allow total flexibility. So if you only have somebody who can operate one type, then what happens if there's not that kind of work? What is that person going to do? So you've changed the policy on that. So now you're requiring all new people that come on board to operate all three. It may take them a little bit of time to get there, but it gives tremendous flexibility and you need less people to do it then. You can be more efficient. So a lot of things that they came through here, they optimized routes. You know, we looked at, you know, a training program. So all these things were recurred. And these mainly were done by internal staff with little or no help from us. So the red checks mean you did it. The blue means you're working on it. The blanks meaning you've still got to do those things. So this underway. Phase C is what we are right now. We're spending a lot of time on implementation. This is the business processes. This is the training. This is the results. And this is the continuous improvement. This is underway. One of the things we did, the group, is APWA has a list of things they expect an organization to have. This is the list they expect the organization to have. And if you look at the check marks, that means you did it. So basically you did everything, right? Look, you did everything except on the far right. What's the far right depends on? Data. We don't have the data yet. So that's where we're going to get more improvement when people start seeing the actual information. A lot of decisions were made based on benchmarks and understanding what's going on. But now we're going to use our own data to make decisions. And so the first thing we've got to do is what work are we working on? So we had to define the activities. So all the activities, 135, are done by these four groups. You can't hardly see that, but it shows the activity and the unit that you measure. So when you fix sidewalk, you measure how many square feet you did. You might say, well, sure, we're doing that all the time. No, you weren't. You were doing the work, but you weren't tracking the time or the accomplishment. Now we've defined what that is, and the computer system requires them to enter that. So once they enter the data, they have a choice. You've got to put it in. But they want to do it. I know Public Service was doing it in spreadsheets. Solid Waste was doing it in spreadsheets. Facilities was trying to do it in spreadsheets. But now they have a system that does it. And when the spreadsheets are being used, what that means is you're taking a manager and having them key data in instead of managing. So what we want to do is create systems they don't have to do. They can free their time up so they can manage better. So that's completed. Overhead equipment rates, those were done. And we actually ran that by your finance group. They've accepted those rates. They think they're reasonable instead of procedures. So the actual cost of labor, as you know, is not just the cost of the labor. It's the cost of the benefits. It's the cost of their uniforms, the boots that you hire for them, you pay for them. All the other, the meetings they go to, the training they get. So all that's built in. So now the costing we're doing is based on real information. Prior costing was doing wasn't. Even if they pulled the cost out, it wasn't total cost. So that's done. Guidelines, and you can kind of see this, for all 135, the employees worked together. We helped facilitate it. And they now know what this activity is, when should it be done, who should be doing it, what's the work method, what should they accomplish in productivity. That was the hardest thing to get. They would have to agree what they think they can get. So this is the internal benchmark. And then what is it going to look like? When you patch a pothole, what is it supposed to look like? Supposed to be leveled next to the adjacent surface? It shouldn't be, it shouldn't sump, it should be. So all those things you have to define. That's been defined with the employees. This did not happen in a short period of time. This was several meetings with each one of the groups. And they came up with these with our help. So that's done. The other thing, this is really hard to see. The graphic's not good. But each one of those lines represents one of those 135 activities. So now your groups plan to work one year in advance. You know, you're always budgeting a year in advance, but you're not always tracking it to work. This tracks work to the budget. So this is saying, okay, Sue, this is the amount of money I'm going to give you. What are you going to get back? That's what you're going to get back. And that's the internal benchmark. So instead of benchmarking against Pinellas County and other cities around you, which we did in the first study, we're going to benchmark against ourselves. We're going to figure out, what should we be doing? And then we're going to see, did we do it? So that is what you can track by activity, labor, cost, productivity, unit cost. All that's in the system now. We can generate a lot of this information right now out of the system. So that's done. The plan's done. The other is we have work requests. And this is a little busy slide. But the top part of that is actually what the database looks like. So if somebody is in a request, it creates the location on a map immediately. So they know where it is. And also on the left-hand side, the person knows what work orders are responsible, what requests they are responsible for. And so the work request now is internal. Internal requests can be made. It could be external. The database has the full capability of doing that, but we haven't set it up that way. What it is that you make a request. A request for work is not doing work. It could be a request in it. Then you confirm that it's adequate. What if somebody says, well, we want you to work on this road. The road, half the time, is the DOT's road or the county's road. So then you say, no, that's not ours. But the system is set up to automatically email our text, opinion or choice, or both, to the requester so they know what's going on. So that's set up. And then there's the status report. So that's impleted. So if you looked at the screenshots, you'd say, okay, what request do you want to make? Who do you want to make it to? Okay, so we're going to do it for what task do you want? This is who I am. And then that goes into a list for the person who gets it that knows these are the things we're supposed to be doing. And it also links it up to the GIS so you have a map also. The other thing, this was one of the, I started looking back, this was one of the statements that one of you made, and I don't remember who made, what about preventative maintenance? That's exactly, we were doing you call, we haul type of attitude. We've changed that now. Not that they, not that they didn't, they wanted to do preventative maintenance. They just know how to set it up. And that wasn't true in all groups. You know, in solid weights, they got routes. They've always been doing routes. We didn't change that. But the other groups, so we've set up 119 preventative maintenance strategies. So this actually kicks out a work order and says, you need to do this now. And this is the steps in that work order. And we had 67 routes were set up in solid waste. Instead of having a manual form, now it's electronic. This allows for work order to be generated in advance. It provides the details of the task. And it eliminates the needs for somebody to create a work order. And so that's in place. This is a busy slide, but I just want to show you the magnitude. Those are 119 of those PMs right there. You can't really read them, but there's a lot of them. Those were developed in conjunction with the employees. A lot of the work was done by people that Sue assigned to do this. We trained them. Tanya and Michelle, who were here, did a lot of that work themselves, along with talking to other people in this room. So they did it. So in the future, you can add your own. You don't need us to do it. We helped do a couple of them, and we're still monitoring it until you get them totally in place. The scheduling process, this is a little busy too, but what we've done is we've set up a process with a short-term schedule. They do a long-term yearly schedule, and then we schedule by a week. So what happens is once a week on a Thursday, the plan is, the supervisors then schedule what they're going to do the next week. Then they look and say, okay, does that match how many people we have? And they look at that little decision-making. If it doesn't match how many people they have, maybe they're scheduling not enough work, then they look at the backlog. And then they look at whatever else they can find, other work or maybe response work. Then they go back up there, and it cycles back up to the top, and they re-look at it again until they balance it. Balance it means the work is scheduled matches the people they have. Because if not, they just have a list of work. That doesn't mean they can do it. And then after they do that, they create a PDF of it. They then review it with their employees. And the employees might say, you missed something. Wait a minute, you know, we're doing tree trimming over here at the same time you're planning on doing some road work. We can't do that. Then you can even adjust it again. Then it goes back up, and then once the schedule is complete, then this is scheduled for work. Then they do the work, and it goes back. That didn't get completed, gets routed back again, so nothing falls through the crack. But if you get a call in the middle of the week saying, we've got to go pick up the furniture sitting in the middle of the road out there, you can't stick with the schedule, right? You've got to go do it. So when they do that, they have to make a decision. Is it important, is it more important to do that work that's given to us than the work we have scheduled? If the answer is yes, they do it. You don't redo the schedule. If it's not, they backlog it so they can schedule it later. The goal would be anything that's not an emergency, try to schedule it for the future week, because if you can group it, you can do it more efficiently. This is underway, it's not completed. This is an example of some of the outputs that come out. A report comes out and shows which work didn't get completed the previous week. That's why it's in yellow. So all groups will schedule in advance. It accounts for all the people, and includes another benefit, they have to schedule their leave. So you have to ask the employees, tell us, what are you going to be on? You might say, well, that's normal. Well, it is and it isn't. So you want people to know they impact the schedule. So what you want to use is a little bit of that pressure. Wait a minute. And then, so this process, again, is underway. This will be one of the biggest savings you can get. I've actually worked with agencies. All we did was set up a scheduling system and they improved. So scheduling on a short-term basis really is critical. The other thing is you track everybody's time. This shows you that we can actually create a timesheet. You don't need to create a timesheet, but if you wanted to, you can see what a particular employee did. And the other thing is everything is like Sue's mobile device. It's reported in the field. All of it's reported in the field. It's not reported in the office. So, you know, so you can actually look at the work. So that's done too. We can actually have accountability reports that actually, and again, you can't really see that, but it tracks the plan versus actual in hours, in dollars, in productivity, and you can actually increase size. So this information is in place, but we just don't have good information. These reports are going to be used by the managers to make better decisions, and that's how we're going to start improving more because they're going to start saying, wait a minute. Why didn't we get the job done, or why is it taking so long? You know, why did it take us longer to do it? Maybe we're sending too much equipment out there, or maybe we should group our work better. But, you know, once you start opening up the minds of your smart people here and they have the information, they never had this before. So that's, you know, the work detracts labor, work costs. Again, a plan, and the plan is your internal benchmark, which is matched to your budget, okay? So this is underway. It's not done because it takes some training. We need some data. We don't have all the data yet. We've only had a couple of months of data, and it's not, you know, the first couple of months are not as clean as it's going to be as we keep going. The other thing is we're going to have dashboards. A lot of people don't like to look at reports. Some of you might want to look at a dashboard. Maybe Jennifer wants to look at a dashboard. We can give her a dashboard. She didn't have to know anything about Mainstar. This is the initial dashboard that we did for Fleet. The ones that you're going to eventually get are going to look like on the ones on the right. These are ones that we've done with other agencies using the same software. You'll be able to do maps using GIS. You'll be able to compare productivities. You'll be able to look at what are the major activities are. You can look at what you contracted. You can look at work requests that are outstanding. We can, this can be designed any which way. We're going to help design the first ones, but then we're going to train your people to do it. But that's underway right now too. So that's not completed. Other things that have happened, the spin-offs that I mentioned is the information has been used by Sue to actually look for grants. It allows you to do FEMA support. You could have the overhead rates that you didn't have before. Your mechanic rates, we know what it really costs. We're going to know exactly once we collect a little more data. You're going to be able to eliminate some of these unnecessary spreadsheets and databases. You're going to be able to have the management people who are going to develop their skills. And a lot of things we're doing, if you remember the old karate kid. You remember the karate kid? I don't know if some of you remember. He was training the karate kid and he wanted to learn how to do kung fu and karate. And the guy took him in there and he said he wanted to wax the car. And he would wax the car and he'd wax it off. And finally the karate kid said, look, I want to learn how to use karate. I don't want to wax your car. And so he said, okay, step back a little bit. And then he tried to hit the kid. The kid blocked it that way and he blocked it that way. The point I'm trying to make is we're teaching them little skills. They're going to apply all at once. And they haven't been able to do that. We teach them how to plan the work. We teach them how to schedule the work, organize the work. And now we're going to teach them how to use the database in it. So we're doing that karate kid concept. We're actually teaching them different techniques that they're going to use to be better. But they don't know some of it because they haven't used it yet. But they keep wondering, why do we have activities? Why do we have guidelines? Why do we estimate productivity? So we're going to do why we have PMs. The other thing that we have ways to, when people onboard now, they're going to say, what do we do? Well, we've got the guidelines. We can say, any activity they're going to be doing? Here it is. Here's the plan. We memorialize the workflow. Somebody comes on new. Well, how do we schedule work? So maybe the employees that want to be supervisors to see how work's scheduled. They say, oh, you know, I can do that. They're going to start, you're using technology. You're using, you know, APWA and other people recognizing, this is a city. How do they do it? Why can't we do it? You know? Some of the agencies that are around you have spent decades trying to develop, I'm serious, decades trying to develop systems that will do what you're doing in a couple of months. So anyway, these are the savings I've mentioned. I think that most of these are real, but most of them are a direct result of the employees buying in and trying to do these things. Some of these things, they're going to be even more, because a lot of these were done with benchmarks and just reviewing where you were. The next series of recommendations and improvements will be based on real data that you collected. These weren't based on that. They were based on looking at common sense and talking to people and looking at other things. So this is still underway. These other savings might come on when you're looking at how you schedule overtime. We're looking at that. Maybe even your payment management system. Use it. There's other ways. We're also looking at your schedules. How you schedule the time. Four tens, five eights. Other things. We're also, I mentioned the resource allocation that we're looking at that, you know, because you'll have the information. We'll know exactly what it costs. I mean, right now, when I came here, I went to a meeting and you were having a meeting that talks about one of your events. There was 20 of us in that room. 20 people in that room. Now, public works didn't even charge you. They had three people in that room. And they were there for two hours. Well, that room probably was worth $10,000 to $20,000. You had three deputies there and everybody else. The key point is those things cost money and we need to keep track of it. So this system wouldn't allow that. When they go to a meeting and they sit there for two hours in that meeting, maybe you shouldn't send three people. Maybe you shouldn't send one person. But anyway, when you start looking at the cost, people make better decisions. If you don't look at the cost, people don't make better decisions. So I think that's going to help. So where do we go from here? Well, we're going to continue the process with a disconnected system. What's the disconnected system? When you have a power outage and you're trying to track what you do in the field, how do you do it? Well, we have to use paper. No, you don't. Those things are live. They'll store the data and when the system comes back, it populates it. So we're setting that up now so if you have an event, you'll be able to use that information. So we're going to fully implement scheduling. Once we get that in place, it takes a little bit of time because people have to think in advance what they're going to do a week in advance. It might seem simple, but when you're dealing with mother nature and you're dealing with things that you need them to do, you're dealing with things they need to do, it's hard to schedule. So it's a process. And we're training them on how to use the data. We're going to be updating the system group is people that Sue is assigned to update the system. So you don't need us or Mainstar. So there's two people that have been assigned, Michelle and Tonya. They're both here. And they'll be updating the system in the future. So we're training them so they know how to do it so, you know, the system can keep continuously functioning. We're going to optimize equipment. We believe there's other equipment that you don't need, but we want to prove it rather than guess it. The other ones were easy because they were either duplicate or either you didn't use it at all or maybe, you know, when you had backups at 100% when, you know, solid waste equipment when you don't normally need 100% backup. Some of those were easy. Some of these new ones are not going to be, we'll have real data and then we can make the decision. We'll be able to look at the service level agreements. For example, we think will improve your, because people don't want to pay for things if they don't have to. So they might have a second thought before they bring facilities in there to do something and keep facilities working on maintenance and proactive things so things don't break. And then we're going to align the staff with a plan. What that means is we're going to come up with a new plan that says this is what we want to do. How many people do we need to do that? The computer system will generate that, but you've got to have a good plan. Then we're going to make a final presentation to you guys. We'll get a report sometime in June and then we'll present whenever you ask us to. The staff in July is going to say some of the other improvements they're getting. So that's pretty much it. We're really excited to be here and glad to answer any question. But again, this was a team effort. We facilitated it. We came up with a lot of ideas, but the employees stepped up and did it. And a lot of the people in this room and facilities and solid waste, I don't think about any fleets here, but they've all participated and they made it happen. And a lot of places I do, we come up with good ideas and people don't use them. If you don't use them, you don't get any improvement. So they did do it. So they get the kudos. We get some of the kudos. We did some things. But anyway, I'll be glad to answer any of your questions. So are we tracking the cost of all the people in the room too? Just kidding. We are. That's a little joke there. Anyway, questions, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. You know, you're totally speaking to the choir here because the time tracking and the system you're describing is a standard in the defense industry for tracking cost and charge numbers. And if I understand this correctly, basically for the budgeted work, essentially you establish charge codes for those. And that's what the employees charge their time against. Is that it? Yeah, they take the budget and they match it up to this work plan, which is by activity, and they charge their time to it. So you'll see it directly where their time is. But they're also, we can charge to budget category. There's all, we can actually cross charge to the actual budget category if we want. Right. And it's the employees are just tracking to what they do. The system is all set up so that we can extract that information. But from an employee, a staff perspective, they're just recording the work that they do based on the activity and the work, the people, materials, equipment that are associated with that work are getting tracked behind the scenes. And they can see this. I mean, it's transparent. But that's where all the cost, and that's where we line it up with the budgets. We have a program budget, activity based, that they're working with. But we align that with our line item budget so that they're matching costs. Yeah, that's good. And in terms of how you track productivity, is that kind of more utilization? Let's just say an employee, you know, eight hour a day is charging seven hours to cross active charge numbers that are actually, I'll call them direct, and maybe an hour towards overhead. Is that kind of a realistic depiction of how this works? Yes, it is. It's recording the work they do. We have built in to the overhead rates is the administrative costs, but we still have them tracked to it because we're going to balance up, right? We're going to keep looking back at what we plan to do and how those figures were established, working again with finance about which things are in overhead, and that's how those rates are done. That's how we can do real cost recovery based on that information. And then this time, because we're just putting the system in, we'll look at it in about three months and adjust our plan. But it will be done annually after that. Again, with these other departments, the equipment rates, the labor rates, all of those things, so that they can balance out. And they're just going to be worried about tracking 100% of their time to one of those activities. You have activities for leave, for meetings, for the administrative types of work that get done. But primarily productivity for those are going to be one-to-one. It's just an hourly rate, right? But productivity for actual task of accomplishment, this is something that was really critical in this system, that it's able to account for the accomplishment. What did we get done? How many are we measuring what we did? Because all those costs get divided into that productivity. So every time we meet, we can talk about how did we do this? We beat our figures, you know? And then it's how did we do it is the really important part, so that we can repeat it. Or, you know, as an anomaly, or hey, maybe we should adopt this over here in this crew. Yeah, that's okay. That's, yeah, that's exactly the way I've seen it in other industries. The American Public Works Association, you mentioned a certification. What, just kind of high level, what is the criteria for that certification? There's multiple certifications. There's supervisor, manager, there's stormwater professional. There's other training that are, you know, like forklift certification. There's all these kind of certifications that are available. But there's actually, it's laid out with the training materials. And we can really do all of that in-house with their support and provide training. We can get some of the external training that's needed, like for certification. We do that now with forklifts and things like that through the agencies that are local here. But then it's a test. And there's, it's a difference between an accreditation, which APWA has accreditation. And there are a couple of agencies in Pinellas that have that, Largo, I think, and Pinellas. And, but right now we're not talking about that. That is really more a documentation. And then, you know, they come out and look to make sure that you're following the processes. We're now establishing the processes. So this individual certifications we have built into our budget and we have built into our evaluations so that we can improve and enhance the professionalism and the education of our staff and make sure that we're learning and, and also getting credit for it. It's also being built into our career paths and our career ladders where, with HR. So that if they get that skill and they get that credential, that they will be compensated as well. Just to put a placeholder on this, if I may, though, Mayor. Sure. I think that once this is fully implemented and we have some time to catch our breath, then I'd like to look at accreditation as well. Always moving forward. Good. Yeah, that's, um, the, the timeline for implementation, um, could you, could you call that up again, that slide? The, it's the one with the red and the blue line. Phase B? Uh, I think so. Right, right there. That one. Yeah. Um, so, so basically the, the, the system is not fully implemented yet. Is that? The system, the system, as far as all the main processes that are fully implemented, what's not implemented is the employees using the data coming out to make better decisions. It's the business process, but the software is up and running, but it's not fair. The employees just now got it. We've got to train them on how to use the data to make better decisions. That hasn't happened. Plus, we don't have enough data to make decisions. We've only got two months of data in there. We need at least six months because the first, as you, I know some of you already know this, the first couple of months, any new database, it's not that accurate, it's not clean. So we need some clean data before we make decisions. So that's what's not done. As far as all the processes are in place, there's a couple of things in solid waste. There's a couple of things that the public services has identified that we need to modify because we're going to make it better. We're going to keep tweaking it. But right now, it's pretty much most of the process in place. I'd say 85 to 90 percent. There's a few things to make it better that need to be put in place, and we need to use the data at the other end so we can do things better. Okay. Yeah, no, that's great. And then the preventative maintenance part of this, that slide that you put up pretty quickly, I didn't see a periodicity with those PMs. They all have a, you know, it's specific to the PM. Some are weekly, some are monthly, some are inspections. You know, fleet is completely PM based, and then they have their response. Facilities has a, well, I'll actually, you just name it, they all have PMs, but they're really based on the type of work and then the frequency. The system, you can do it a lot of different ways. So pretty much, they have told us, we also used all the study information on the benchmarking and what industry standards were to have that discussion with them. Like, wait, wait, are we doing too many PMs for our light trucks? And that schedule was actually altered, so the PM that is now in there is the updated PM, but they are all individually set up and can be. Okay, that's fantastic. And then the company, the vendor for this software, I'm assuming this is Public Works, this, they've got a lot of experience with this. This is utilizing. They do. Harry could. That's pretty much. Yeah. You guys chose it, but we've used 10 different systems, but we've used Mainstar and those 200 implementations, we've probably used them 60 or 70 times. Yeah. Okay. So we're totally familiar with the organization. Strong past performance with this. So we knew exactly what to do. We could actually, you know, and Nikhil, who actually worked on the project with me, he gets into the back end and that's how we were to import the data in there. That's how we made this project go so fast because we could actually work in the back end of the database and set it up rather than have to key it in or use some of the simple tools that Mainstar had. Okay. And what was the cost of this? For the software? Yeah. $110,000. I believe it was $110,500 and then they have an annual fee of $35,000. And they, you know, they have to provide training and they also, they have to fix anything and then getting upgrades. You know, and you really do want to keep that capability because if you get an upgrade and you quit paying them, they get, it's like a new system because the technology is exploding as you know and you want to make sure you have the latest upgrade. And it's hosted. What's that? It's hosted. Hosted, okay. Right. Outside of our firewall? Correct. And is this scaled, is that cost of it scaled by the number of employees? No, it is, it is not. Flat fee. It was, that competitive bid, it was unlimited users, but it does have certain modules that it covers. So the structure of that contract was acceptable to what we needed. Okay. It's not directly users, but they do take into account the size of the organization. I've seen that software go as much as half a million dollars. Yeah. I, I, when I researched it, I mean, the contract that we chose was, um, a city that was more our size. Um, there was a couple of counties and, um, it was significantly more. Yeah. And, um, and then, um, they had gone to this cloud based version. Um, and so it was really an opportunity to, to get it that way because some of the agencies, um, the older agencies had, uh, you know, a desktop version. And, um, and that we know I've implemented both. Uh, you know, there's a lot more work on that it side for that, um, and keeping up, but this is nice. The updates get done. And, and like I said, I was really excited. Uh, so is Michael about having a hosted solution. Yeah. And just, just to put that in perspective, the systems that I'm familiar with, like Dell tech and some others, you know, that, that half a million dollar fee is, is not unusual. So, yeah. And we did save, we, uh, included in our contract and the recommendations, uh, some of the configuration with LAC versus, um, Mainstar. Um, there is some configuration included in the contract, but, uh, we had some advantages. We weren't bringing over all this, um, NaviLine data that was not very good. We, we used the basis of the study to start our, um, implementation and then actually configuring software, teaching our systems folks. Um, and then, uh, using, uh, Harry and his staff to configure it to the work processes that we established. Yeah. Yeah. Final question. Um, any plans to roll this out across the city, other departments? Yes. Um, you know, we'll get this fully implemented and we'll be, we'll, um, make sure that we've worked out all the bugs. And then, and then I'd like to explore other departments, ones that are appropriate to this type of, of, of a program. Parks maintenance is one of them. Great. And utilities is another. Yeah. Yeah. Well, fantastic. Thank you. Uh, no further questions. Okay. Uh, commissioner Sandberg and questions. Yes. Sue. I think my questions would be mainly for you. Um, I guess I'm a little concerned about, uh, projects being prioritized. Um, you know, let's just say for example, first, if, if, if someone in the community, a citizen, you know, he used an example of furniture dropped off on the side of the road. If that citizen sees that, how, how does it get reported to the city? Can they go online and do it or what? Um, so the current, you know, ways that they do that is through phone. Um, they can call any of the departments they do. Um, they, there is an online, um, submittal. Uh, when we do get on our feet here, the portal that we use internally right now. Um, and we've trained internal staff. I mean, in all the departments so that they can go put it in and that what Harry showed in that picture was, um, the portal, like the person who put it in, it was their dashboard. They could see the list of what they put in that is available externally. We have not rolled any of that out. Um, and it is simply a web. It would be a link on our website, um, that they would just go in and put it in. Right now we are basically the interface for that and we put it in for the citizen. If they call us, we put it in. Um, if they call any of our departments, but they can still submit online through communications. They have a link or any kind of citizen complaint and they can call anywhere and we'll put it in. So now the, it's been entered, the citizen is, you know, give a brief description. So is this program set up then that, you know, we need to assign two trucks, two men, the amount of, it will actually specify the type of equipment and the number of. You're just making my heart sing, right? Because I get to tell you that, um, the work request comes in. It's a request for work and it goes into a, you know, well, actually like I'll just say public services since you use that example. So, uh, it comes in and we have a person that you helped re, you agreed to reclassify one of those positions. And so this, this person assesses, does the initial assessment so that the customer gets response right away. Doesn't mean we, we may schedule the work, but they're going to get informed and, um, they can get texts or email. But we also have a person that can talk to them and does talk to them and, um, looks at it and says, hey, we need to do this now. So that priority is defined, but then they follow that. And then, um, if it needs to be done right away, they do it right away. If not, they're putting in information into the system to create a work order. If it's a valid work for us, they're putting it in so that it can have the piece of equipment. That activity guideline is already established. So how many people it should take and what pieces of equipment. Now there's no substitute for a good foreman that, um, is actually taking care of that when they're doing the scheduling, um, and adjusting that. Because, just because the activity guideline says it needs three people, if that particular job only needs two, then they can put that other person on something else more productive. If it needs four, they can take one and put it there. Um, and then the citizen, um, would get back information. If we're, let's just say we're scheduling it. It's not getting done right away. They get a response right away from our, from Brett right away, um, to respond. And Jennifer's, um, you know, goal is within 24 hours that they get a response back. It's already improved. And, you know, I know I've talked to all of you in public works where I've gotten an email and it's been there and I didn't get to it. But this is so helpful because someone's assigned to it. And so it, they get a response right away. So if it's going to be scheduled out, Brett still, he's part of the scheduling process. So he's going to keep in contact with that citizen. And when we come up and if his job didn't get done because we had to do something else, right? The citizen, then he's going to say, hey, we didn't get this done. I have to tell the citizen that we didn't get it done. And when are we going to do it? Are we going to do it right now? I mean, so it's a great, um, process to go back and make sure that we're addressing what's been called in, that it doesn't get set to the side. Also, let's just say it is less priority work. And it's something that we want to do, um, but that we, we have other priorities, um, that we can just be straight up with the citizen and say, you know, it's going to be several months before we get to this. Okay. Um, you know, have, you have a little, um, water in your curb. That's a good one. Um, and it's not affecting the base. And, you know, we, we have other things that we're right now that have to take priority, but we will not lose your request. We will put it in there. So we do monitor those jobs that are not completed. Absolutely. Yeah. Every week. Okay. And then the last thing, uh, he mentioned about, uh, GIS tracking. So if we have a, a piece of equipment that's, you know, down south of the stadium and suddenly it's needed up in Braymore. How are we geared? Are we in a position where we know where that piece of equipment, it's going to be, you know, southern, south side of town for another hour. I mean, how, how can we, again, make the citizens feel comfortable that your job will be taken care of? This is some, you know, somewhat of a timeline. Okay. So, um, first of all, some of the pieces of equipment we have, uh, some of them have actual GPS in them and they're monitoring like solid waste. Um, but a lot of the pieces don't have, and again, it's a matter of when they're doing the schedule. It, that activity guideline, um, it recommends what kind of basic equipment is needed. But when the job is scheduled, that's when that piece of equipment is assigned. Okay. The system, you can see which piece of equipment it is by asset, which piece is assigned. And if you want to pull up, there's a resource report, but really, again, there's no substitute for a good foreman. That it's you, it, you know, the system's kind of used as a check and a balance for what they know how to do. And, um, but it just kind of verifies and it gives you a warning. Well, you're trying to use this piece of equipment in two places at one time. Maybe you better call over to utilities and see if they have one. It doesn't say all that. No, that's, that's all I had, Mayor. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Gao. Questions? Thank you, Mayor. Great presentation. Thank you. Uh, when it comes to tracking, uh, is it, and it's tied to actual budget. So mid year, some point during the year, are we able to see how much budget we have left for a particular line item? How long is it, is it? Well, we have two. Okay. So we have two, looks like Jorge's going to talk. We have financial system, right? Which, uh, we can look in there in Tyler Munis to see what the line item says, but I'll, on a, on a financial system, um, it's not, you might have funds encumbered, you might have a trailing invoice, you know, right? So you have a, it's not, we're necessarily real time, but it's accurate from the financial side, line item. From an activity based budget, we absolutely, we're tracking the whole time because we're planning and we're tracking all of our work a hundred percent. At a minimum, I'll just say the group would be looking at it monthly. I'll be looking at it more frequently. We can look at it and year to date as it goes along and they will learn that, how to do that. And we can look, so let's say six months go by and, um, we haven't met our target for ditch cleaning. Why not? Do we under, we're talking about it every month so we can understand why that is. We had two hurricanes. Okay. That's a real reason why we couldn't meet our targets of what we plan to do. And we have debris going off, you know, that activity, you know, off the charts in our, our reports. The real important part is, do we understand that? Then how are we going to get back on track? Now that's the next, and you guys have been hearing some of that where we called in a contractor to do some of the ditch clearing. But those are real things that are in our plan by looking at it on a monthly basis. We will stay on target with our, our savings, with our expenses, with what we plan to do. Why in the world are we doing, um, ten times the amount of sidewalk that we plan to do? That means we're not getting something else done. In each case, and part of that question about the priority, when we're asking the question, is this more important? It's really because we plan to do this work and we told you that we were going to do that. We told our citizens that we were going to do that kind of work. Um, then if we're not doing that kind of work, is it a conscious decision that we're doing a different kind of work? Because something has to move off the plate, uh, because we counted for everything. Commissioner, if I could elaborate. Uh, Jorge Kintas, Deputy City Manager. I've been biting at the chance to get up here. So, um, as, as Sue and Harry mentioned, you know, we, we've done this before at other agencies. So, I kind of know how this movie ends. So, the part that's exciting and, um, Sue and Harry touched on it is that plan versus actual. And there was a slide in, in the deck here that, that spoke to that. Um, that, all these activity guidelines, they roll up into this annual plan that Sue mentioned. Um, and that's how we, we budget for the year in that particular department. And, as Sue mentioned, you know, once this is fully implemented and we're tracking, um, that was why it was essential to pick the software that we did. Because not every asset management software out there can do plan versus actual tracking. That, that's essential to what we need to do. And so, the beauty of this is, and Sue mentioned it, is they will do monthly production meetings. So, so each group will come in. And instead of looking at the, the year in arrears, you're taking that annual plan and you're looking at how you did that previous month. And you're comparing. And so that allows you to make adjustments to the activity guidelines. If the crew makeup was maybe not ideal for the type of work that we're performing for that particular activity or whatever. But they can make those adjustments. And then it becomes competitive, right? Because you've got one group sitting in the room and they're seeing how they did that past month. And the other one, they did better. And so, so now you get competition amongst the department, which is also exciting. But the, the part that, and I heard the vice mayor's question to Jennifer earlier is, you know, where else can we roll this out? So, um, this becomes exciting to me because all this annual plan feeds into program based budgeting. And that's what we want to be when we grow up. Okay. Right now we do line item based budgeting, which tends to keep people in the silos, right? It keeps them in the departments that they budget for. But from a commission standpoint, you don't care about that. You care about the programmatic base. How are these programs being implemented? Because they can impact and utilize, uh, departments across the organization. So it, it forces us to, to move to programmatic based budgeting, which is what we want to do. That part's exciting. Yes. That. So, so it doesn't connect directly back to financials. It does. Okay. So it does. Thank you. Also, if I may, commissioner in clear gov also, which is a software program for the finance department. We keep track of, and there's a dashboard available in clear gov as well. Okay. And so within the talking to the, the financials and so you had mentioned, uh, clearing ditches, right? And we just had a grant for, for gabions. Uh-huh. So does it, does it track the dollar amounts of the grants and, and how much we might have left in a grant so we can use the grants more efficiently? The financial system. The, the, the financial system, the Tyler Munis does that. Um, and Camille keeps us on that. The, the, this is a work management. So it tracks the contract and the, in the cost of that contract, um, and the work that it's been done. Again, remember that we're still in progress here. So we're focused right now first on the work that our staff does, those resources. Um, and they are recording any contract support that they're, you know, they're providing our own resources. So this next piece where it's strictly a contract, I don't have Trevor entering that yet, but it will be entered. We do have a plan for it. Um, and then revenue, again, that's financial. This is work management where we're tracking the work that we're going to, uh, have done. Yes. So you'll, if I may, you'll see in ClearGov the transfers in and you'll see how much exactly how much we spend year to date on gabion repair or ditch cleaning or whatever it is. You, all of that is in ClearGov and accessible to the public. Mm-hmm. This is getting more exciting every, every minute. It, it really is. It really is. And with all, all the, the staff being assigned to different groups, depending on the activity of the project, uh, for the day, for the week, for the month. Uh, if I'm an employee, do I know what I'm doing when I came in this morning? Yeah. That, yeah. Uh, you should know. And that's the reason we have a step in there of having the schedule discussed with the employees. That's the schedule for next week. Not the schedule for this week. It's what we're going to do next week. Of course, you know, that's subject to change. Um, but then, um, on these, um, there's the, the mobile component for Mainstar. Uh, it actually loads on the iPad. You can use the full blown version, but on, it only shows you the work that you have to do. There's a list and, um, your work orders that are assigned to you are what show up. Nice. Very good. Does each employee have an iPad or? Um, well, in some, um, areas it's, uh, there's crews. And so the crew has the iPad. So some areas, um, the age, each employee would have that. And thank you, Michael. And they're all ruggedized. Yeah. They're all ruggedized. Actually, we, yeah, we've, and again, this is a process, right? So, you know, we often styluses. Some people have bigger fingers, whatever. We're really trying to work with our employees and listen to make sure that they're getting the tools they need. Because the best thing is if they are happy to use it, that, they will use it. And that's what we want. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. My colleagues have done an excellent job, again, of squeezing this lemon pretty well. Um, no reference to lemon being negative there. Um, but I do admire systems change. And this is a great example of systems change. And systems change actually has a formula. It's dissatisfaction times sanction times first steps have to be greater than resistance are. So I'm going to ask questions about what you faced in some of those ways. What was the original dissatisfaction that drove us to this solution? And, and I think that I spoke about that, uh, to begin with. Is that, that the work order system was very disorganized. It was on paper. It was the employees will come in and they would not know what they're doing. And then they'd have to switch mid morning or mid afternoon. So it was really, it w we weren't using analysis and analytics to drive the work. Um, it was the other way around. And so it was really to get that department organized under a very logical, uh, work order system and to having now, you know, all of the analytics that we need, uh, to get all the equipment necessary in order for them to be as efficient as possible. How was that? That's great. Excellent answer. Uh, if I were scoring that, that'd be a 10. Um, I'll take it. Yeah. Second question. Every system, when you make a change to it has resistance. Can you describe the resistance we faced and how is it being managed? Carefully, carefully, um, the, uh, you know, change management is the hardest part of any project in this particular project. This is huge. We're talking culture. We're talking the way we do business. We're talking response to citizens, um, work accountability. Um, that is a huge challenge and, um, there's a lot of resistance if you have an organization that doesn't want to be accountable. The fortunate part is you have employees that are Dunedin citizens that care and they're not all Dunedin citizens, but they all care. Um, and when I, um, when Jennifer and Jorge were talking to me about, you know, coming here, um, on a person on a temporary basis, but you know, later when they started get, you know, asking, would you stay? And we were talking through, um, what it would, what, why, why would I stay? I'm retired, right? This is what, um, drew me. It's working with them and their heart. So there has been resistance. There's no doubt. Um, not everybody is, um, I mean, some people didn't even have a flip phone and we're asking them to use iPad. And so the commitment to the training, to working hand in hand with us, with them, to listening, um, it's a great, um, commitment. And, um, we have staff that are committed to doing that. So I'd say, you know, we, we still have some resistance, um, because there's not an understanding, although dots aren't together yet, but primarily the resistance is not, I don't want to do it. It's, I don't want to do it because I either don't understand, I don't know how to do it, help me. Um, so that's where I, that's my answer about resistance. I don't know. Harry, you, from observation, if you have more. There's been, yeah, there has been resistance. But again, I think, again, because most of the leaders and the supervisors kind of recognize the benefit of doing it, they've kind of worked through it. But, you know, you're talking about people that are used to recording things in paper that have never used, like I said, an iPhone or iPad, and all of a sudden you start using this technology. And then you're talking to managers who never had data coming back to them to say how they did. So that's all new. That's all new stuff. And, and again, I give them credit because they've accepted it because, but there has been resistance and we haven't, we're going through a process. And, and the more we can show them the benefit, the better off it is. And, and I think that most people have accepted. There's still some that say, well, do we really need to do this? And so, but I think when they see the impact of the information, so a lot of the stuff that's happened, we've set up, but we haven't actually looked at the outputs yet. When they start seeing the outputs, I think it'll help better. And then if we can show the benefits of it, the benefits being getting the right people at the right time, getting the right equipment. Right now we've gotten rid of equipment because it's not, we got the wrong piece of equipment. Maybe if we help them get the right piece of equipment, they'll see the benefit. But there has been resistance and there probably will be all the way to the end. I mean, anytime you put a new system in, it's changed. Change is not easy for anybody. They've handled it pretty well, but there's still some that, you know, we've got to keep working with and that's why you have us here another couple of months. We're working, plus that's why Sue has two people that she's assigned to work with them. I know that Michelle has been working in solid waste and fleet trying to help them understand these things. And so has Tanya. And that's really important because if you relied on us doing it and we'd go away, you wouldn't have someone there. But it is necessary to stay on top of it. It is. You've got to continually monitor it. You're going to get new people in. Those new people don't know anything about the system and they, a lot of them come in, probably don't know how to use iPads or they've never been accountable before. And we are making people accountable, not because we want to make them look bad, because we want to help them. We want to make them competitive so that they don't have to worry about you outsourcing their job. You know, your community, one thing is, it's a very tight knit and people care about the people here. I've seen it with the employees and how much you care for the employees. So all we want to do is help the employees to be the best they can be so that they can do what you want. And I think once they all understand that, almost all of them will accept it. But there's some still right now that resist. But it's not unusual. It's not unusual at all. I have a lot more resistance than most places that were. Okay. Sue, what was your biggest ah-ha? Yeah, I get surprises every day. I hate to be one of them. You know, I think it's probably been public services, just the, like we sat down at the scheduling meeting, and Harry intentionally, the LAC set up one week scheduling. And I was like, one week, you know? But it's really hard. This is really hard. But for them to come in and say, last week, I mean, we've only been doing it two weeks, right? Like, I mean, we set it up and everything. But they came in this past Thursday. That meeting was five minutes long. Five minutes. And I said, you know what? You're ready for two weeks. They are going to two weeks, which we'll spend the same amount of time. Ah-ha. They get it. And so, for me, it's ah-ha. We're going. Like, they're, we're going to have trouble keeping up. They're going. So, you know, maybe that's not exactly what you were asking about, ah-ha. No, that's exactly what I was asking. I was looking exactly for that answer. And good job. How does this interrelate with the commission? How does the commission interface with this? I'm sorry? How does the commission interface with this new software package? How do you, how do you interface with it? Well, you know, the, I think what happens is one of the things we've recommended is that the department create a report that they update you. And the report doesn't have to be a hard copy report. It could be a dashboard that you can kind of see how they're doing. But I think that once, ah, we get through, I think we need to get to at least until June. Because we need real data. We don't want to, we don't want you to look at data that doesn't make sense. And right now, we're, we're cleaning it up. So, I think how they, you would look at, when you're looking at your budget, you can say, what are we going to get for that budget, Sue? What are you guys then going to deliver for us? And she'll be able to say, we're going to do this many square feet of concrete. This is what we plan on doing. How quickly are you responding, like you were talking about in efficiency, how quickly are you responding to our request for service? Can you tell us? Well, is it taking five days, ten days? They'll have that information. So, I think you'll be able to see big metrics. But you don't need to see a lot of metrics. You just need to see some, you guys have too many other decisions. But there's no reason why you couldn't see some metrics. They could even put a simple dashboard up for you that you can see how they're doing. And you can see compared to, here's the major activities, here's how we're doing. Because a couple of activities account for almost all that work in most groups. So, you can monitor those. So, that would be the way that I've seen people use it in the past. Where you just get a report at the end of the year, this is how we did. And also, when you're doing the budgeting. When Sue's going through the budgeting process, she can say, this is what we're going to do for that budget. And she can actually share that with you, so you get information with the budget. Manager? Thank you, Mayor. And Commissioner, that's an excellent question. And from my perspective, you use it as a linchpin. Because this is, I hate to say the word revolutionary, but it is for us. Program-based budgeting, which is also zero-based budgeting moving forward. Which is a whole different way to bring the budget to all of you. Accreditation of the department in the future. And not, like I said, everybody gets a chance to breathe and make sure that we have this down pat. But accreditation for this department. Expanding it to other departments as well. To the point where, you know, with strategic planning and with this type of efficiency study. It will get to the point where it just becomes our nature. It's so baked in and so organic in the organization that everything has a work order. And everything has, you know, the cost associated with it and the materials and that type of a thing. So from a broader perspective, it is the beginning of something new in the city in my mind. Thank you. That's good. One of the things that I think my colleague, Steven, was alluding to was a frustration I've experienced. When we get calls from citizens about issues that they wish to have addressed. We tend to call the manager and tell the manager. Would this be something in the future where we would input that issue into a process and that would then track it? It's set up for you to do that right now. Okay. It's just a matter of training people. We've actually started training some of Jennifer's staff on how to use that. But eventually we could train whoever you have that you coordinate through that could do the same thing. And it would do the same thing. You make the request in. It would tell you when it was assigned, when it was scheduled, and when it was done. You just turned me into a fan. Thank you. I just whispered our kind of mouth to the city manager. I'm not doing that. I'm coming in and tell you, I saw this. We need it done now. There's that hard training at the top. Well, I mean, everything's pretty much been asked. But I'll ask this. Do you see any negatives to come out of this? I.E., Recreation needs your vehicle for 15 minutes to do such and such because we don't have the equipment to do it. And, you know, so the department's like, okay, sure. We're going to give you a bill. You'll never forget. And, you know, if you want us to come over, we'll do it. Do you see that as, at some point, getting nitpicky between the, you know, kind of all hands on deck, we need everybody kind of coming together and being a team versus all of a sudden, oh, yeah, you know, we'll tell you what it's going to take for you to get this 10 minutes for the vehicle. Do you see that happening at all? So, I believe that our lead is going to be how that affects, what effect that makes. Right now, again, you know, Harry said this, but to reiterate so everyone hears it and our employees included, we want to account for it. So, if we're accounting for it across the city, everyone's going to account for it. Whether or not, Les would say, it's of a significant nature that we make a transaction for it, and by the way, 15 minutes or less, it's going to be on something else. But more than that, then we're going to create something for it. The actual passing of getting a bill, if you will, that's going to be our lead as to whether or not that really exchanges, and really, they shouldn't even be worried about it. It's about accounting for who's doing the work and making sure, like our enterprise funds, that we're accounting for the time for those enterprise funds. We collected those revenues for that particular purpose, and if that resource is being used for something else, we can clearly allocate it correctly. So, I actually see the walls coming down more than it being negative, but I can certainly, you know, a lot of people, in any organization, I came, you know, Mo, I came from Pinellas County. It was getting pretty negative there before I left, and it's about the culture and the leaders and what they want to have happen. Everybody here knows that we support events. It doesn't matter, but there was some animosity building, but I've already seen that actually be reduced by, oh, they're going to know how much time we're spending on it. And, you know, knowing that the budget supported from the commission, from the city manager, to do those things, and having a service level agreement that tells us this is what we're going to do, it's taken out more of a negativity than added. If you're here, maybe there are some pockets that I'm not aware of, or maybe we'll hire somebody that maybe doesn't have the same mindset of accountability. This kind of thing is going to weed that out pretty quick, and I don't see others hanging on to that negativity and letting it grow, especially as it becomes second nature, and, you know, it's just a way of business that we do things. It's the only negativity that I'm really kind of picking up where you could have it, where somebody doesn't want, they're exposed, you know, and they're not doing what they should be doing. Then there could be some negativity, and they're trying to hide. It's a very, very transparent system, so it will show up pretty quick that we have somebody who's fudging the work order. Well, actually, the other thing that comes to mind is people that find anything to do but their primary job. It'll be, like, right there for everybody to see, and that's more common than, you know, people think sometimes. No, I think that's great, and actually I could see where resentment would build up. I'm trying to get my own job done, and they keep calling me to do this, and nobody even knows that. They just wonder why I'm not getting my own job done. So, okay. No, I appreciate that. I don't really have any other questions. Let me ask the public. Is there anyone in the public that wishes to come forward and ask a question on this issue or make a comment? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input, and I will go to final commission comments. I'll start on this side. Commissioner Gao. I love efficiency. I can see where this will work at the management level, understanding the processes and all the projects and how they're laid out. I think it would make them feel better knowing that it's there. For the individual staff members, I just think that they would find this exciting that they know what they do every day. Everybody likes to be efficient. Everybody likes to know how their work schedule is scheduled out. I just use Outlook for myself. But if you look at, in my day job, if you look at my Outlook calendar, it's got everything listed. So I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to think about it. I come in in the morning, set up my computer. Outlook pops up. I know exactly what I'm doing for the day. And certainly there are bombs that are dropped in, and things get reassigned. But that's just part of everybody's job every day. So I'm really looking forward. I certainly appreciate the enthusiasm that you're accepting this. Because most, in the fact that it comes from management, because most things fail because management doesn't buy into it. They push mission and vision statements on the staff and ask staff to memorize them and commit them to memory. But management never really walks the talk. So when you've got management that's walking the talk, and they see the efficiencies, and the staff is accepting as well, it just breeds success for me on anything. So thank you all very much. I'm excited. Mr. Degard. Thank you, Mayor. Mayor, compliments on the presentation. As a person that's had to involve himself into systemic change, what you try to find in it is something that is organic as opposed to imposed, something that comes from the bottom. And sometimes management's cause of resistance when that happens. I don't sense any of that here. I sense that we have an organic change that's getting ready to happen, that management is embracing, the staff seems to be embracing, and it would be foolish for us to have anything else but an embrace for it, too. But I see something else in this as well. I see at the end of the day we're going to have accountability. And it's been something that I think is important for all of us, and it will make us more accountable when the system's in place. It has my full support. Thanks, Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, for the city of Dunedin and just where we're at right now in a very tight budget year going forward, this is revolutionary, and it's showing us that the staff in the city are looking at forward planning. You know, I've implemented similar systems at two other companies, and I've seen the results. One of the companies we started with paper and spreadsheets, and, you know, to get an accurate accounting to roll up the cost to the cost centers was literally a nightmare. And this is going to really make everything we do more efficient, and most importantly, it's going to allow us to make more informed decisions. And so, you know, this is awesome. I love this, and I'm all for it. Commissioner Sandberg. I think one of my favorite parts of the job is to see the public and the citizens integrate with the city staff. I have two examples. Someone downtown told me that they needed, and I'm not sure what it was, and they said, yeah, some guy named Trevor showed up, and it was done quick. And I wish I could think of who it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other one was solid waste. Couldn't get down a certain street. And they sent me an email and said, you know, heads up. And I went and explained to the neighbors that, you know, and that is what I feel my role is, is to get out there and make sure the citizens, as well as the staff, get a fair chance. And that was a nice presentation, but yours is second to none, Sue. You're a good leader, and I'm glad you're part of the city. You do a heck of a good job. So that's all I have, Mayor. I was going to say, when I look at Sue and I look at the city manager, I mean, you guys are almost giddy about this. I mean, it kind of cracks me up, you know? It's like, I'm saying it's kind of dry, guys, but you're so giddy about it. I mean, it's like, okay. And, okay, everybody that's out here, employees, raise your hand if you're giddy about it, too. Okay. Okay. Okay. There we go. That says this is, we're on the right track. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So, and I was also going to say, you know, I already have my assistant. Lindsay just tells me what to do every day, and I do it, so. And she has access to Mainstar. She puts it right in. That's right. No, I mean, I think it's great. It is, despite the giddiness, it's dry, you know? It's hard to get going on it. It's, you know, the devil's in the detail. But at the same time, it is the key to an efficient organization and being, you know, an organization of excellence. And so, I'm really excited about the project. I'm really, I just, I'm going to, Harry, almost, I was trying to think of your name at the last minute. But, Harry, I'm glad they picked you. Obviously, you've got a great track record to doing this because, at the end of the day, to get to this takes, you start out at a kindergarten mind. You're taking massive things and turning it into something that's, you know, more, you know, relatable and, you know, just simple. And that's what makes it work. So, you know, the key is to have the right consultant in the seat. Sue, obviously, you're the right person in your seat. But, again, it takes all of you out there to make it happen and make it work and be giddy about it. And so, yeah, good job. And we'll keep going to the next step. So, thank you, Jennifer. Okay. I think at this point we are going to take a break. And then we're going to talk about the marina. Might not be as giddy about that, but we're trying. I'm going to reconvene the meeting. Just as we were talking behind the scenes, again, we lost one of our employees this morning in a long fight with cancer. So, we've got some other things we have to do. So, I just want to let's try to do a hard stop at 1230 if we can, which is right on time. But just kind of set that pace since we all care deeply about this next item. And I think we have plenty of time to cover it if we're efficient, brief and brilliant. So, I will turn to Tony. You're kicking this one off? Okay. I'll turn to you. Good morning, Council Mayor. Happy to bring forward the marina master plan for review here and an update. This plan originally appeared before commission in August of 2024. As we know, September and October, the marina was impacted severely by the dual storms that were aimed at us a little bit. But so, what we've done since that time is we've worked with the consultant, Kim Lee Horn, to update not only the phasing because that's been impacted from the storm repairs. So, some of the scope of work has actually been included in some of the repairs that were originally presented in the master plan previously. The topic on the original presentation in August of 2024 was to determine whether we were going with fixed docks or floating docks. And at that time, floating docks was the preference. And now we're kind of examining what those floating docks will be made of, some of the design elements. And the budget, of course, has been updated with the progression of time and the projection of the completion of the work. So, I'm going to hand it off to our consultants, Kim Lee Horn, to go through the presentation. We have staff here to answer any questions about any of the elements with the marina as we move forward. Okay. Thank you, Tony. Good morning. For the record, James Pinkerton with Kim Lee Horn. With me today is Casey Long. And just as a bit of a reminder, through the master planning process, the way our roles work is I focus mainly on the upland portion, so from the seawall back. And Casey's focus is the marina design and the seawall design, so kind of from the seawall out towards the water. So, as we run through the presentation this morning, he's going to talk about the marina components, and then I'll update you on the upland portion of the proposed improvements. Casey? Push this down. Yep, push down. There you go. Hi. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for having us back. Just to go over some of the previous parts and to refresh you on some of the adjustments we made, this slide here basically is going to show the different types of slips that you currently have, what their existing widths are, and then also the proposed conditions that we're looking to change them to. So, for instance, a 25-foot slip currently, you have the main dock going up and down dock A and B is 8 feet wide. The finger pier widths range between 18 and 24 inches, and the slip widths are currently around 9 feet. What we've proposed as part of this is to go with the same width of main dock at 8 feet, increase the fingers to 24 inches because the current ones are very narrow, and then also go to a slip width of 10 feet. These were all worked out with lorry based upon preferences and suitability. Boats have evolved over the years, gotten a little wider. So, moving on to the 30-footers, our adjustments are we're going to keep the slip width the same. We're proposing to go up to a 30-inch wide fairway in these locations versus the original 18 to 24, giving them an additional 6 to 12 inches more width to access their boats. For 35-foot, we're increasing the slip widths to about 15 feet, which is a foot larger than what you're seeing currently, and the finger docks to be at 30 inches. For 45-foot slips, we're looking at 17-foot widths versus the current 17-foot widths and 30-inch fingers. For 50-foot slips, we're going to 30-inch slips for fingers, and 17-foot set slip widths. You have a variety of 14 all the way up to 19 currently being used. The widths that we're proposing are somewhat in line with industry standard. They're either on the bottom end or right in the middle of industry standard for those size vessels. For the finger widths, for the smaller vessels, they're in line with industry standards. As we start getting into the larger boats, we are below industry standards for the width of those slips. However, we're wider than what you currently have. The sacrifice that comes with that is by increasing the fingers any wider, you stand a potential of losing more slips because we start getting them too wide, then we get the slips to be too narrow, or we won't be able to have larger vessels that we're currently using the slips. We'd have to narrow up those slip widths and then, as a result, change the general dynamic. We're not uncomfortable with going with these larger finger widths, even though they're below standard, knowing that they're better than what you're currently using. So that's how we're looking at it. And then for the 60-foot slips, we're going a 20-foot width to match what you currently have, and then we're ranging between 36 and 60 inches, depending upon if we had the adequate space for it. For the handicap accessible docks that are required under code, we're going with five-foot wide fingers in those locations to provide the accommodations that are required for those type of vessels. The current marina's publication or the current marina's standards of what's being used by the City of Dunedin, a 25-foot slip is not for a 25-foot boat. It is for a 23-foot boat overall. That is the length of the slip, and then the boat can go in at 23 feet. It gives room for it to have some clearance with the docks and to avoid going out into the fairway. So these are the breakdowns here. We have a 30-foot slip would be over 23 to 28-foot overall length. For a 35-foot slip, it would be 28 to 33-foot length. A 50-foot slip would be anywhere between a 33 and a 45-foot length. And so the reason why you can get down in the lower ends, you could have some very wide boats that need the wider slip, but at the same time, the length is not needing to be 50 feet. And then for the 60-foot vessels, it's up to a 55-foot overall length. Overall length is inclusive of the bows, the pulpits, the swim platforms, and any raised motors or outboard motors. And so that's the overall length within the slip. When you see these here, I just wanted to share that before because we're showing numbers in here, and it says 30 feet. The boat is drawn at 30 feet, but it's intended that that's a 30-foot slip, but the boat would be, as is indicated here, and a 30-foot slip would be a 28-foot vessel that would go in there. When we took the boats out, it didn't present very clearly, so we just wanted to make sure you had the color code. So this is the fixed dock option that was reviewed before. We made some adjustments since our last Marine Advisory Committee meeting to look at some of the fairway widths and to also, in particular, make adjustments in the boat ramp area. We had originally in the last last year. Quick question. Yes, ma'am. Maybe I'm looking at two different things, but on my chart, it's showing current 192, proposed 174, minus 18. Right, right. We've got 192, 174, minus 18, versus 192, 170, and it definitely fixes its slip layout sizes and types fixed dock, which obviously means that sounded better. I know we made some last-minute adjustments yesterday afternoon. They may have gotten lost. Yes, this was uploaded last week. Yes, so the ones that this may, yeah, these ones, there might be a few changes. We'll just make sure we note those changes. So this is correct, what you're showing. This is not. Yeah, and if I may just. I know ours doesn't have the 40 slip, 40-foot slip. Correct. Okay, so you got, sounds like the last week version is. Yeah, you have, the one from the 26 is what's up there. It's what was uploaded, correct. All right. So we'll make sure that that is addressed and re-uploaded. Just to point out what the numbers are here, what you're seeing is correct, with one point of clarity. On the 45-foot slip column there, the third row down, it says one current, two proposed, difference is plus 11. That difference should be plus one. But the totals on the bottom are correct, okay? And those are some things that we did adjust in the latest version we sent, which is not this one, but we'll get those added for you. When we met with the Marine Advisory Committee, there were some questions regarding the fairway widths, and also when we met with Lori directly to talk a little bit about the newest boat mixes. We added in 40-foot slips and reduced down the number of 45-foot slips from the previous master plan to allow more circulation space and more fairway space. So those items you see in green in the middle up along Dock A, those used to be 45-foot slips. We've changed those to 45-foot slips in order to, sorry, used to be 45s, we changed them to 40s. Question on that, so on this slide, current 145-foot, proposed two for plus 11? It should be plus one. Yeah, that's why I just clarified that that should read as plus one. The totals on the bottom are accurate. That's just a typo there, one of the things that was corrected. Yes, sir. Yeah, we were tweaking some of these as ladies yesterday afternoon, so thank you for pointing that out. So in the end, for the fixed docks, and you can tell where the fixed dock locations are by the docks being dark black. All of those docks are proposed to be dark black, except for up at the fishing pier where you can see those don't have a dark black. Those are floating docks. We were able to get to these numbers, which is 170 versus the original 192, with a different mix of boats. In particular, what we were able to do is down there at the boat ramp area, we were looking to widen the boat ramp slightly, but keep the same configuration that's currently there now, the floating docks the way they are now, and the circulation space to be the same. We were able to adjust the fairways for the area around the boat dock. They were originally 48 feet wide. We brought it down to 44 feet wide, but that also meets the industry standard that is required for the size vessels that are going to be in there. We had to make some adjustments to each of the fairways to accommodate the fact that we're putting in larger boats along dock A and dock B and dock C by five feet. Then what is currently utilizing the slips to account for some of the demand that is there. And so we did that by taking a little bit out of each of the fairways to accommodate those changes. We also took into account that eventually you'll need to change the seawall out in some areas, so you're going to lose a little bit of your area of your marina. And so these fairways take into account that as well, keeping them in line with industry standard, in some cases more than industry standard for the size vessels that are circulating. And then to the floating dock. The floating dock one, you actually are able to get one more vessel in your marina. As a result, the way we have it set up here, the access between dock A and dock B and C are not directly to the docks. You'll see there in the middle, they're right next to the big red 35-foot slip call-out on the table. It's an entry. So you would enter between the fairway, in the middle of the fairway between A and B, and then you would ramp down to dock A or ramp down to dock B. And then to enter dock C, you would enter as you normally would, but we'll also provide a secondary entrance to dock B, heading to the north on a ramp to dock B. So with this, there'll be a parallel floating dock along the east wall. And that then changed a little bit of the boat mix because of the fact that we are losing six or eight feet of space to put that floating dock in the water there. So some of the vessels were smaller in some locations, but in the end, the quantity was able to go up. I'll pass this on to James to talk about the upload. So the next series of slides, like you saw previously, many of you that were on the commission prior. For those of you that are new, this will be kind of a new introduction to this. But in the original master plan, we had shown some more extensive improvements to Edgewater Park in the version that we're seeing here today. Those have been scaled back a bit, but we are showing a number of existing versus proposed conditions. And so the renderings that we're going to walk through here will kind of illustrate what those proposed improvements are. From the proposed site plan standpoint, if you just kind of go back and look at the existing conditions plan here, there are some, you know, some changes that we've made that you'll see in the next plan, really in the kind of southern part of the drive aisle here, point here, and as well as in the circulation areas here around the restaurant. So that's where the majority of the upland changes are compared to how they are today. So on the existing or on the proposed plan, what we've done is we've shifted the boat ramp a little bit to the north. That allows the boats that are launching there to launch into the center of the fairway versus where it is now, which is kind of right on the edge. It's not too far after you launch that there's some piles and then existing dock structures. So we've shifted that to clean up that access a little bit. The existing boat trailer parking stays where it is on the north side of the drive aisle there. In the previous master plan version, we had shifted that to the south. We've shifted that back to the north based on input that we've received and further coordination with staff. We have done a number of traffic calming improvements around the Old Bay restaurant, and that's in this area. You see enhanced hardscape and clearly defined pedestrian access ways. We've also modified the circulation and the parking access to this parking area, the one within Edgewater Park, as well as the drive aisle leading north-south. So that's been cleaned up a bit. We've taken that down to two access points for the parking compared to three that you have today. Pedestrian enhancements, as I mentioned, we envision that as clearly defined hardscape and pedestrian crossings, as well as the marina walk. This plan shows a continuous walkway around the marina from the fishing pier all the way down the north side, the east side, and then the south side out to the peninsula. We've expanded the plaza at the Old Bay restaurant by the Harbormaster building there. We've added more seating area and, again, more pedestrian staging areas. We've separated the parking. Again, if you look at the existing conditions here, you've got one to access areas into the parking field here, and then you've got the north-south drive, and then, of course, the drive on the north side. And so we've cleaned that up a bit and just have, again, the one access point into the parking field within the Edgewater Park and then the one to access the north-south drive aisle. Can I add something real quick? Yeah, please. Can you go back to the existing? Yep. So on the existing, you'll see over on the south end how the parking and the drive aisle, as you get closer to the boat ramp, tapers down and gets narrower. There's an angle to the park. In this area. In that area right there by the restroom. One of the things that is important to note is that that's not changing currently. It will change as part of the master plan. So as we get into the discussion of the east wall, I just wanted you to see this so I can explain a little bit more. We've proposed some enhancements to what we're calling Sunset Park there on the northwest corner, right before you head out to the fishing pier. We've expanded the day dock and fishing pier, which you'll see in another view. And then we've, of course, reconstructed the docks. One of the improvements that we've done is added a captain's walk to the south and the west side of the marina. As Casey mentioned, that has an impact on the overall space. So that's why some of the fairway reduction occurred in some of the fairway widths there. But what we heard in some of the community meetings was the desire for secured access along the south and the west. So adding that captain's walk and then a secured gate access like you have for docks A, B, and C was part of this improvement here. And then, of course, we're also talking about future structural repairs to the harbormaster building in the northeast corner of the marina basin. This is the same proposed master plan view, just without the labels for clarity. And you can see in this one here how that tapered area I had mentioned is not there anymore. We are cutting into the park to add that long, continuous, uniform parking run and drive aisle from east to north to south. The next series of views are a little more kind of user-based from a point of view standpoint. This is the existing marina walk. Some of the concerns that we heard as you get out towards the Sunset Park and the fishing pier is that the marina walk kind of ends and you then enter out or spill out into the parking way. So the proposed condition provides a continuous walkway leading people through the marina basin out to the Sunset Park, out to the fishing pier. That could be decking, that could be pavers, that could be concrete, it could be any number of surface material. But we wanted to provide a consistent walking surface there. This is the existing boat and trailer parking. Again, if you look in the northern part of the view here, you'll see some of the shifts in the drive aisle. Beyond that, there's really no change to the proposed parking that we're making. You can kind of see that shift that occurred there. This is the existing boat ramp and access compared to the proposed boat ramp. So this shows that shifted ramp just slightly to the north. And then we are providing staging docking just immediately north of the boat ramp like you have today. Floating dock as well as a floating dock just south of the boat ramp for staging as well. This is your existing marina walk. It's about four to five feet wide in various locations. The proposed condition would expand that to about eight feet. And then we have additional space for bike rack parking, benches, maybe some bench swings overlooking the marina. Again, we heard in the public meetings that a lot of people like to come to the marina and view the boats, view the water, but not necessarily. They may not necessarily be going for a boat ride or something. So we wanted to provide that access for viewing and just light recreation there. Here's the existing marina walk looking back towards the Old Bay Restaurant. And then the proposed conditions, very similar to the previous view. Again, you can see benches or shade structures or bench swings on the side. And then you have an indication there of the controlled gated access out to the docks A, B, and C, as well as the southern and western docks would also have that access, the controlled access. This is the existing parking and circulation. The Old Bay Restaurant and the Harbormaster building is in the bottom right of the image there. This is where a lot of the, I would say, congestion from a parking and traffic and pedestrian circulation has occurred. And so the proposed conditions provide a more clearly defined pedestrian and vehicular access. You can see to the left there access to the parking lot within Edgewater Park. And then the drive aisle access running north-south with clearly defined pedestrian crosswalks, landscape area. And then also the expanded plaza in front of the restaurant for additional restaurant seating or benches or just landscape areas. Another view of the existing parking and circulation. And if you keep your eye on that drive aisle just page north of the marina, you can see how that's been cleaned up. Again, with clear crosswalks connecting the marina walk to the park as well as over by the restaurant area. And this is just an overall view of the proposed marina. Again, you can see on here on the south wall and the west wall that captain's walk has been added. There is fencing and controlled gate access to get through in order to access those captain's walks and the boats. And then this is a proposed future day dock and breakwater as well as expanded fishing pier. Again, we're proposing a lot of things that would happen in multiple phases. And I have a phasing chart coming up. But we envision this would be a longer lead time with Army Corps permitting and some of the other permitting requirements for that improvement. Again, existing overall plan and proposed plan. So you can see a lot of the changes there that occur along the marina walk and the drive aisle. This is a summary of the parking. And again, another point of clarity on this. If you read the bottom totals there, the middle proposed column should read 129. The net change is the same. We're increasing it by six. We had done some studies that included parking counts on the peninsula. And that's what that previous number of 164 included. Just to make an apples-to-apples comparison, we're really focusing just on the stuff immediately around the marina drive here, kind of south of the peninsula. So that number should read 129. But that's why the difference was there in the previous version. And then you can see on this proposed change, with the vehicular changes, there are some impacts to the upland park space. So we end up with about a 0.4, 0.3 acre reduction in the upland park space based on straightening out that drive and some of the parking reconfiguration. Casey, do you want to run through your phasing? Absolutely. So we modified the phasing from the last time you saw it to accommodate some of the things that have been occurring, as well as future plans. Currently, number one in yellow is the east wall modification that is under construction. Number two is the fishing pier replacement, which is about to begin construction. The next portion would be phase three, which for some reason, there it is, it's a dock A and B replacement. And that one is ready to begin design and the general planning process, as well as permitting. Future projects would be the repair of the restaurant building with the structural modifications that may need to be done as a result of deterioration. Number five would be the dock C area and the boat ramps, as well as any trailer modification pieces. Six would be the south and the west walls, and seven would be the fishing pier extension, followed by eight, which would be the modifications of the parking area along Edgewater Park up there near the restaurant. To point out for phase six that I didn't point out, that would be at the same time in which the parking area would be modified and we would cut into the park to straighten out the driveway aisle as part of the process. As far as costs are concerned, since the last time we visited this, we've increased the numbers to take into account some escalation. These numbers are based upon 2026 numbers. You should anticipate a six to seven percent escalation per year onto these numbers if you decide to do them outside of 2026. But overall, the fishing pier replacement, if it were fixed, would be and is going to be fixed as $1.8 million. The dock A and B replacements for a fixed dock would be at $1.7 and $1.6. However, depending upon the floating dock style that is selected, a floating dock modification would be $2.9 and $2.5 million for concrete floating docks, whereas an aluminum or a hybrid would be something less than that and somewhere in between a fixed and a concrete floating dock number. For dock C, using similar dollars per square foot, the fixed would be $1.2 million versus a concrete floating at $1.8 and then a hybrid or an aluminum at a $1.4. For the studies of dock A and B and as part of that design process, staff will be presenting with ideas and options for the different types of floating dock systems that are available and some possible locations to go visit them and see what they look like so that you can get a feel for what type of system is the one that would be preferred. And then from there, we've given you the range of, you know, the most economical floating dock systems all the way up to the more expensive ones that are in the concrete realm. The boat ramp modifications, concrete single lane would be $2.1 million, keeping in mind that some of that includes the wall improvements around it and then the floating docks that would be associated with that boat ramp area. The southwest and commercial docks, these are putting in the gangways, the captain's walks and new fixed structure at $2.2 million, as well as any kind of floating docks that would be considered only in the commercial dock area. We're not looking at any kind of floating docks for the south or the west walls. That would eat up too much real estate in the water to get the ramps and all the parallel floating docks, so we were leaving those as fixed through all of the master plan components. And then the fishing pier expansion and wave attenuator, this is for going out further and the modifications that James had shown, as well as putting a wave attenuation system, whether it be a breakwater or a panelized or a floating wave attenuation system. So as we mentioned in the cost breakdowns here, there are the different types of concrete floating dock systems. You've got, I'm sorry, different types of floating dock systems. You have the concrete floating docks here on the left. The Bellingham style, as a lot of people refer to, there are other suppliers besides Bellingham that provide concrete floating docks. And then you have the fixed docks, which this is a photo of what you currently have here. It's just a standard timber and wood or a composite wood decking over a timber structure. There are aluminum with composite. You can get the concrete or the black plastic tubs for floating with aluminum with a composite system in for the decking. Or in some cases, you can see here, there's a concrete topping on top of the black plastic tubs underneath. Those are the poly float with aluminum and concrete. Many varieties of floating dock systems are available. You can even put concrete tiles and go more decorative in nature. And so this will be the next step that will need to be decided as you progress from the decision of floating dock to what type of floating dock system. For the upland improvements that I summarized or showed on the proposed slides, we're looking at a total of maybe about $3,080,000. And then for the building improvements and repairs to some of the structural items that we identified, that would be about $1,000,000 just over. These numbers were also updated from the last presentation based on some recent cost escalations. Clay, did you want to run through? Yeah, I can run through this next one. So these were some information that we took those cost estimates that you saw in the last two slides and gave them to Les. And then this is his projection out for what this does financially to the Marina Enterprise Fund. So if this was, for instance, the first one, you have a fixed dock scenario with a net increase of 7% from fiscal year 27 to fiscal year 28. And then you would have a 3% increase between fiscal year 29 through 35. That also would entail having to go up for a line of credit at about $6.3 million to cover the cost of that, along with an additional loan of $600,000 in 2030 for the construction of Dock C. And if you look down at the next one, here's the floating aluminum prices. Most of those are pretty much similar in comparison except for the loan value in 2026. The line of credit's a little higher. And then also it's actually the loan goes down a little bit for floating dock in 2030 for Dock C. Let's give it one. There we go. Thank you. Now he also created one with FEMA included in the reimbursement. So, again, not much changes between your, well, actually, I'm sorry, there is a 7% increase from fiscal years 27 through 31. And then a 3% increase from fiscal year 32 through 35. That includes taking a line of credit out with FEMA being reimbursable for the difference for the fixed dock cost. That's for your top one if you're looking at the floating. The second one with the floating concrete docks, very similar again, 7% increase from 27 to 31, a 3% increase from fiscal year 32 through 35. But there's an $8.7 million line of credit getting that at fiscal year 26 or 27 with that to be reimbursed by FEMA. That also would then need a $1.2 million loan in fiscal year 30 for redoing Dock C from fixed to floating. And then this is a comparison that FEMA is paying for the fixed dock only and not for the reimbursement for the mitigation going from fixed to floating. So, this would be, it would be, this is his estimate, 7% increase from fiscal year 20, for fiscal years 27 and 28, 10% increase in rates between, from fiscal year 29 through 32, and then a 3% increase for 33 and 35. Again, would be getting out an $8 million line of credit, with FEMA reimbursing the fixed docks only, and then a 2 point, just under $3 million loan in fiscal year 30 for the docks cease. And then this is just a time frame of when we would be seeing the construction for those based on the phasing plan that we previously had shown. I did not go through the detail of the fairway widths, and I'm happy to cover those if you'd like, but I wasn't sure if that would be something that the commission would be interested in hearing, but I can go over that. You guys want detail on the fairway? I think there was questions at the last marina meeting that I attended, so maybe to clarify. Sure. So, yeah, so go ahead. Okay, certainly. So, I don't have a slide to cover this. I mean, we can certainly look at the overall visual, but the existing overall marina, if we start from the north and work our way to the south, between the commercial docks and dock A, currently the fairway widths are 92 feet from pole to pole or, you know, open structured area. However, some of the vessels that are using the docks are a little larger than the slips are allowing, and therefore the narrowest measured dimension is about 75 feet in those locations. What we're proposing is to provide the 60-foot slip, which would accommodate the 55-foot vessels and the commercial docks being slightly longer than what they currently are now to accommodate up to a 45-foot vessel in those areas, and then have an 84-foot fairway. Industry standard for the 55-foot vessel would require about 83 feet, so we're going to be a foot larger than industry standard, although the fairway as a whole will be 8 feet narrower than what is currently there pole to pole. It's wider than what is currently the operating area because of the size of the vessels encroaching into that fairway. I hope that was clear. You're narrowing the fairway. We're narrowing the fairway overall, but we're providing more space because of the slips being increased a little bit in size from what they currently are to receiving the larger boats. So the overall impact is an improvement in the aspect of that as far as when the larger vessels are present. Keep also in mind that the larger vessels are on the east, sorry, the west side of that dock. The narrower vessels are, or the shorter vessels are on the east side. So the fairway width I'm giving you of 84 feet is on the west side. As we progress further to the east, closer to the restaurant, it increases by 10 feet in width, and so therefore you'll have the ability to still turn around in that location with a larger turning area. As we progress between docks A and B, the existing is around 71 feet in overall original width, and we're going to go to 68. So we're reducing it by about 3 feet. Same between C and B, the existing is around 53 feet or so, and we're going down to about 51 feet. So we're reducing it by 2 to 3 feet. And then the last one is up for the boat ramp. That is existing is around 48 feet, and we're going down to 44 feet. A lot of these adjustments and reductions occurred because, as James mentioned before, on the south side, we're adding in a 4-foot captain's walk that currently is only 2 feet wide, so we lost 2 feet there. The fairway where the boat ramp is only accommodates 25-foot vessels on both sides. We're increasing one side to receive 30-foot vessels, so we needed to gain an additional 5 feet there. And then the same between docks B and C. There were some vessel size changes that went up. They were originally servicing 35-foot vessels. We're servicing 40-foot vessels there, so that's another 5 feet. So we had to rob Peter to pay Paul, I guess you would say, to make all this happen. But in the end, we're above industry standard by 1 to 2 feet in most of the slips. Yes, sir. This is the, just for talking as Casey was running through the existing dimensions, this was the existing plan. The proposed plan is here if you'd rather look at this. And one of the things that we did modify through some of it is the boat ramp may actually slide a little bit further more to the south to be closer in line with where it currently is. One of the things that we're looking at is for sure making sure that that water area is no smaller than it currently is. As a matter of fact, the east-west dimension from the face of the wall of the boat ramp to the first vessel is more and it is improved as part of this master plan. Currently, there are a lot of pilings in the way that makes it difficult to maneuver. By eliminating those pilings and starting the vessels a little bit further to the west, we've actually made that turning area and the lay-earth area a little bit larger. But the width is going to stay the same. But you are saying the proposed picture is, it shows the new number of spots, the measurement differences? Okay. And we can certainly make sure that we know there have been some slide mix-up here that you guys get to... I'm a little confused because, Walt, you got those. We changed that and that's a good observation. Thank you for pointing that out. When we met with the Marine Advisory Committee last time, there was a lot of concern about pulling in at a 90-degree angle and the navigation. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Thank you. No, that's a good detail to catch. We did make that change. And essentially, they wanted it parallel to the boat ramp to just be able to back offload and maximize. I think a total of one in this location is all we lost because we, in this picture here, the actual vessel is shown on the wrong location. But see that vessel on Dock C that is to the far east? That would actually be a boat ramp dock that would be not on that Dock C finger but be on the floating dock up against the wall. So that's the one vessel that you lose as a result to accommodate the boat ramp. This is the exact configuration that you currently have. It's just showing a wider boat ramp. Thank you. Okay. So we'll go for questions. Maybe we'll start our new little thing because I think there'll probably be a lot of questions. But we do like maybe three questions each until we keep a rotation. Does that sound like trying to do that? And I think we'll start over here with Commissioner Gao. Oh, sure. Let me lead the change. No kidding. No kidding. The proposed boat ramp, is the angle going to be the same on that? I've heard complaints it's too steep. No. Our intent was to make it more industry standard between 12% and 15% to make it more accommodating. Standard width is about a 16 to 18 foot width and a 12 to 15% slope. So that would be the proposed modification. Okay. So what will that do to the length of the ramp? It would extend it out a little bit further, but it's all been accommodated in the site plan. Okay. So what we're looking at now, although we can't see the angle of descent, the length is going to stay about that same. Correct. It could encroach into the orange crosswalk area, but it wouldn't go much further out into the paved area. I don't know whether that was a question or not. No, that's the same topic. So we're going to learn as we go on this. So, yeah, you get two more. The upland changes. I noticed that in the proposed slide that it doesn't incorporate the shelter that is currently there. So is it being suggested it's moving somewhere else or are we doing away with that shelter? The intent is to keep the shelter. Are you speaking of the one in the middle of the park? No, no, no, no, no, no. It is very close to the drive-thru there. Yeah. There you go. So that one would be impacted by the straightening out of the drive. If you see on the screen there where that is located, I'm going to try to center that here right adjacent to the drive. Then if we look at the proposed change, that straightens it out, and so that kind of impacts the location of that. It does impact it. Yeah, it's not there anymore. Yeah, it's gone. And so is it gone? It's gone. In this view, we could always look at relocating that or providing a new one. I did have some costs in the cost chart for the upland improvements for shade structures, so we would intend to carry it with that. Okay, and so that's what I was kind of looking at is the budget for it. Yeah. And so you're saying that a new shelter is baked into the budgets that's there. Yes. It may not be clearly shown on the proposed plan, but it's in the budget, yeah. Okay, and the cost for, I think it's four parking spaces is just over $900,000 according to the budget. We're gaining six, and let's see. So that parking drive aisle improvements, that includes straightening the drive aisle. It includes adding drainage structures to accommodate that, so it's quite a bit more than just adding four or six parking spaces. Yeah, and so right, here's nine, and then my follow-up question, and Mayor, I'll kind of end my first one out. But yeah, the drainage infrastructure underneath that, $330,000, how much of that draining, that cost for the drainage is because of the parking? Most of it would be associated with the realignment and the repaving that we're doing with the dry vial, as well as the marina walk. If you look at conditions prior to the storm, there's a lot of areas in the sidewalk that were very up and down that didn't meet ADA, and you had drainage going right over it. So a lot of the proposed costs there would be to address that and provide that through subsurface drainage. Okay, so for the just over $3 million cost for this change, $1.3 to $1.4 is associated on six additional parking spaces. Is that... No, it's six additional parking spaces. It's the, I would say, enhanced pedestrian circulation. If you remember the images that we showed, like, by the Old Bay restaurant, where we had, I think, more clearly defined crosswalks and pedestrian circulation, as well as plaza space in front of the restaurant. It really covers all of those improvements, not just six spaces. Okay, so the costs here aren't just on the south end, then. They're everything to do with the park and the recirculation on the north end. Yes. Right, okay. That I didn't understand. Yep. Okay, that's all that I have for now, Mayor. Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. We've used the term several times. I want to be sure I get it nailed down. You've used industry standard throughout this. Help me understand industry standard, source, because it's guiding a lot of what we're doing. Sure. ASCE, which is American Society of Civil Engineers, has a Marina Handbook, ASC-30, that has standard fairway widths. That dictate based upon the largest or the longest designed vessel that will be using that fairway. So we used 1.5 multiplied times that length. So for a 55-foot vessel, we would do 55 times 1.5, which was 82 or something like that. That was the driving standard. There are other standards, like the California standard, PIANC, as well as British standards, and some of them are slightly smaller, and some of them are slightly larger. So we selected the ASCE because it's utilized often, and it tended to be kind of middle of the line to not be too conservative and punish your marina too much, but at the same time was closer in line with what your current users are functioning and operating under. Okay. On the road on the east wall, is that still two-way or one-way? That's still two-way. Two-ways. Okay. And so if someone goes beyond the ramp, they'll go on around to get to Alt-19, is that correct? They can go all the way around. Do people, is it one-way going on the south side as well of the park where the trailers are? Is that two-way? Yeah, the trailer is one-way like it is today, and so as they pull in or as they pull out, they would leave that same direction to access Alt-19 or to Edgewater Drive. Yeah, Commissioner, I think the intent is to try to restrict the movement into everything to the northern entrance instead of having cars sitting down at the boat ramp area, maybe delaying traffic where there's the turn lane or farther north. I've been caught in that jam myself, so I understand. Yeah, that's the intent there. I just want to be sure I know what's going on. We're losing a number of slips, mostly for small boats. That's where we're headed. What's our marketing tell us about that? I think Laurie can probably help us. All right. It's going to be Laurie. Good morning. Can you hear me? Today we have a high... Laurie, do you want to introduce yourself? Oh, sorry. Laurie Ferguson, Harbor Master. Today we have a high number of 25-foot slips that are empty and no wait list, and they're not the size slip that is the most commonly asked for. So we have the highest turnover in that number of slips as well. So the intention was to create more 30-foot slips of which those smaller vessels can go into and less 25-foot slips so that we don't have that turnover and those empty slips sitting with no revenue. We have a long wait list for those 30-foot slips, which we could fill if we had more slips. So that was the intention of losing those smaller slips. We can still accommodate those smaller boats if we have availability, but we can't put the larger boats that fit in the 30-foot slip into the 25-foot slip. That's the best answer on that question I've gotten so far. Thank you, Laurie. You're welcome. All right. That's all for now. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. This is self-policing, so just everybody's doing well so far. I have a lot of questions. We'll see if this is a good way to do it. But I'll focus my questions on the master plan. So, okay, if you would go to the slide where we start talking about the dock A, B, and C replacements. This one? No, the actual timeline where it doesn't have a starting until FY27. That's towards the end. One second here. This one? Yes, that's the one. Twenty-eight. So, what can we do to accelerate that timeline and actually start this year? That timeline's purely dictated by the permitting through Omnicore. And, well, mostly that's going to be our long lead item in doing anything. And then once we get through, we'll have a few, probably have another workshop like this when we come in with a different type of materials. But once we get that nailed down, then it'll just be permitting time. So, how has the approval process, the working relationship that we have with the Army Corps of Engineers? Are we seeing a backlog? Yes. Okay. We still have not received, we have not had a lot of communication. We've had some communication with our reviewer, but we've not received any comments, even from where the pier was resubmitted. What, Casey, in late October, we still haven't had any response? So, I'm sorry, say that again. So, we did our initial submittal, correct me if the dates, if I'm wrong, Casey, to Army Corps for the pier in September, had some comments that were turned down relatively quickly, or were given to us quickly. And then our last submittal, our resubmittal on those comments were in late October, early November, and we have not seen any, we've had no movement on our permits since. We've been historically seeing 9 to 12 months for simplified permits to be processed, and more complicated permits up to 18 months to receive. Wow. So, we're anticipating this to be a more simplified one, although we're shifting it over from its original location. It's a similar footprint. We're not looking to do dredging. We're just looking at changing the system over, and the pace can be a little slow. So, what's the critical path on this? I mean, I guess I'm trying to get to an answer of what can we be doing now? You want me to jump in? Feel free. So, the first thing that we traditionally do is we take the layout that we're looking at doing and take it to the core for a pre-application meeting, as well as Pinellas County and also DEP. So, the sooner we can get that pre-application meeting going with them, the better, because that will give us the triggers on what they believe are going to be the time constraints that would happen. And that comes with approving the layout, and then from there, getting some drawings put together that are suitable enough for them to understand what they're doing. Okay. So, the phasing of docks A, B, and C, what is driving that phasing? And there's another part of this is that any consideration to doing dock C first, in light of the fact that maybe it could be done while the bulkhead is being fixed? So, I think what I would say there is the reason we've sort of pushed, it was initially done A, B, and C when the original plan was they were all design one-year construction, design construction. But due to the hurricane damage, we sort of combined A and B with that loss of the year of that. So, C has always just sort of been sitting out there as that's where it was budgeted at. And since there is reimbursable money on A and B, that's basically why we've been operating in that pattern. But plus A and B are in decline than C as far as their structural condition. Okay. This is the last question. So, my understanding is that for the most part, we've decided on floating docks, but we haven't decided on which floating dock. Correct. So, what's the next step in that? So, on the 19th meeting, hopefully you'll approve the design contract. At that point in time, we will start looking at different, we've already actually started looking at different marinas for the different dock types. Then we'll collect a sample of each. We'll give you, everybody, an idea of where those were at, and we'll schedule visits so everybody can kind of take a look and see those. And then from that, we'll take that recommendation back and start moving forward with that sort of specific look and design that we want. Okay. May I add one more thing to that? The permitting process is not dependent upon what type of floating dock. They just want to know that it's a floating dock. Obviously, we can, during the permitting process, change it and call it out as concrete and then switch it to something else. But to get in and on the clock, we don't need that decision. We need the layout and the location more refined than anything else. And I, yeah, I appreciate that clarification because that was my understanding. So, basically, so I'm assuming we approve the, you know, assuming we approve the master plan, then does it go into a drawing stage where we start mapping this out? Correct. Yeah. So, well, this, give us, you know, after we have this meeting and then, you said, the design contract will come in front of you on the 18th, 19th. And once that's point in time, we will start the process. Any estimate on how long that process will take? To prepare the permit applications? We usually can do that within two, two and a half months or less, depending upon the amount. Like, if we have to do underwater surveys and things like that, then it can slow down that process. But as far as getting the applications ready to go, it doesn't take long. Okay. All right. Those are all the questions. Thanks. Mr. Sandberg. What is the condition of that Harbor Master building? That's on that. Sure. The current condition, I mean, it's stable. It's functional. But on the underside, it's receiving, due to the waves, water that will splash during high tide underneath there that we're seeing some corrosion of the underside members. And so the repairs and improvements would need to revolve around correcting that corrosion and then fortifying it for future protection so that in the future it won't have corrosion accelerate. And you said the word repair. So it's going to stay, just be repaired. That is the goal. Okay. Were those trucks parked with those trailers on that, I guess that would be the south end. Is there any way to maybe make those spaces a little bit larger? It really impedes traffic coming through that part, coming off the dock, or I mean the ramp. In our previous, sorry, go ahead, James. The boat trailer parking area? Yes. Correct. We could. It would just impact the, we'd probably have to scoot that southern edge of the park further north and impact that, basically park upland space to do that, to make them a little deeper. Okay. And the last thing was the purpose of the breakwater. You know, is there, what are the advantages or the disadvantages? Sure. There's a prevailing wind that's coming in, and obviously the waves get generated through there. So the volume of water that comes in and creates a less stable area around the day docks and the area around the fishing pier could be calmed as a result of the breakwater, as well as the residual effects of it coming into the marina. I know it's a tough question, but if that had been in place, would we be better off today after October 2024? I mean, based upon what I understand of your storm surge, I don't know that the wave water, the wave attenuator would have, the one being proposed that's floating, would have survived. Okay. Those are traditionally very expendable. If you went into a rock-type breakwater, you could have minimized or reduced, but I don't think that it would have kept the water from overtopping, and then also the negative surge that you had seen as well could not have been avoided because it would have just worked its way around. Okay. That's all, Mayor. Okay. Let's see. Where do we actually lose the park land? Can you kind of make note of the areas in the park that we actually lose green? Let me go back to, a lot of it happens where we straighten out that dry vial. I'm going to try to find the good before and after picture here. If you can see what is the eastern edge of the dry vial here where it starts to angle over, similar to where the question was regarding the shade structure, you see how the dry vial starts to angle towards the southwest here in this view. And then if we look at the proposed plan, you can see we're kind of clipping that off, so we're kind of clipping off a triangle there. We also had, I think, a slight impact in the parking area to the northwest of the Edgewater Park there. So we had a couple kind of smaller cumulative impacts in the upland park space. Of course, that impact number will, you know, that may change slightly as we actually get into final engineering and design, but preliminarily we did anticipate a little bit of an impact there. Okay. Obviously, I'm in the court that wants that minimized as much as possible. So are we certain we're getting reimbursed for FEMA docs, I mean for floating docs from FEMA? At this time, no or not. So we could go either way. They could say we'll only pay for fixed or we'll actually go with floating. Correct. Okay. So, and then, yes? The intention is because it's a mitigation grant, right, for the floating. So we're relatively sure that they will reimburse for the fixed. Right. And then we need to submit additional application for the floating. And that's kind of where there's uncertainty. And is that, do we think that's high odds that we'll get it or low odds that we'll get it? We've heard in the past that there are good odds for getting it, but, you know. I know everything is. Yeah, I mean, my conversations with the folks that work with the mitigation seem that, yeah, that makes sense that, you know, getting floating docs would not longer have the electrical problems and all the other stuff. But also some of that's just depending on what the administration is saying at the time. And when you show the rates, that's just, I'm assuming, I'm assuming floating docks because I think that's what we decided we want. Assuming the rates, which was on, like, what, page 37 or 42, I think? This one? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So when I look at that and I look at the floating dock, well, that's floating dock aluminum. Go one more up. Floating dock concrete. Yeah, so I'm kind of looking at floating dock concrete. That's just me. So how does that compare with what we thought we needed to raise the rates to be market? I mean, how does that compare with what we were already planning to do versus what would be an added amount to the marina, or to the marina? Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioner Les Tire, the finance director. Yeah, the floating docks concrete, the one at the bottom, that is what's in our 26th budget right now. Our 26th budget assumed that we would do floating docks with the cost estimates we had at the time, and they're very close now. And so those numbers are very close to what's on our budget right now for the 26th budget. And those numbers assume that FEMA will pay the mitigation that we just talked about. Got it. And the next one would be the worst case situation where FEMA did not pay the mitigation. So, yeah, the next one, this would be concrete docks. Got it. FEMA's saying we're only going to pay for fixed docks. So, and we'd be paying the difference, which is about $2.3 million or so that we'd have to cover that they would not cover for mitigation. So, go back to the last one. So, I'm going to think optimistically that we're going to get that. So, floating docks concrete, full FEMA reimbursement, those increases that you're showing in the rates for marina boat slip owners, how does that compare with what we are already going to give them as increases? Well, this is what we have in our five-year forecast in the marina fund right now. In other words, this is, we've got the 10% increase this year. Then we begin in 27th, 31th, having 7%. These increases are less than they were a couple of years ago, or a year and a half ago when we first looked at the master plan. They've gotten better because of FEMA, assuming FEMA's reimbursing some of these costs. Okay. All right. So, that's it. They're basically 10% before. I mean, we're still fine-tuning what that needs to be. But again, nothing drastic either way, really, in some ways. Nothing drastic, but the rates. And certainly nothing drastic from, if you look at market. True. Yeah. I mean, am I right? No, I agree with that. Like Jennifer said, those would have been 10% before. When we first looked at the master plan, they have dropped some because of FEMA paying for some of the cost. Okay. Okay. And a much-improved marina. I think those are my three, so I'll turn to Commissioner Gow. Thank you, Mayor. And look how quiet I was. Very good. I'm going to talk about the upland piece again, continued. And there is a walkway that kind of extends. I could point to it if y'all can see my fingers. At the north end, right by Walsh, you've now got a walkway or whatever that separates the, see where the parking lot is on the right side, the east side? And you've got that, what's like a sidewalk that separates the two? Yep. Is, what's the height of that? Is that a, are those stop blocks or will cars be able to drive over that sidewalk? What? Yeah, we had envisioned that as a raised sidewalk. And then on the side of that, on the parking lot side of both east and west of that, we have wheel stops. Okay. To protect cars from encroaching on there. And on the, that north side, especially that little pocket parking lot, now that we've created that, I know, I understand that it's to help with pedestrian flow, but how many parking spots are we losing for that continued, continued, configuration? I don't, I don't think I have the net change in just that spot. From the standpoint of overall though, we're, we've matched the existing parking with 72 spaces for public parking. And then we had an increase for permit parking, which we're identifying based on those yellow spaces of four. So we did some shifting and pulling. If you remember that, let me go to this slide. On the existing plan, if, again, if you look where this, the drive aisle starts to angle towards the boat ramp and the bottom of the image here, there's no, after about docks B, there's really no parking adjacent to the marina. If you look at the proposed plan, we've picked up some spaces so that there, so that's where we were able to offset some of the parking counts. So in the end, we're increasing between public and permit parking. There's an increase of four, but the public park parking remains at a zero change. Right. And yeah, that's what I was looking at, because I look like, you know, with that on the proposed, I think it's 10 additional spots that are going to go there. That's about right. 12, I'm only seeing eight, but that's okay. I think we picked up a couple on the east side of the drive aisle. And is that necessary? I know that we're screaming for more parking, but we'll always be screaming for more parking. We're never going to satisfy that need. And so I'm just wondering what six additional is going to really give us, given that we're taking green space to do it. And so if we didn't do the proposed at the south end, and we just look at the improvements on the north end with the pedestrian circulation area there, you know, is there a way to get on the north end what we want with more safety for pedestrians without the negative impact of eliminating green space on the north end? I'm sure there is. I'm sure that we could study that. I think, you know, keep in mind, too, that what we're showing that was kind of related to the drive aisle changes that we're talking about is we did expand the marina walk a bit from about, again, four to five feet in previous conditions to about eight feet, plus then space for bike racks and green space between the parking lot and the marina walk. We had some of those views that showed that. So there's a lot of, you know, correlating changes that we had made. If the direction is to try to preserve and do what the proposed plan showed here on the north, but keep the drive aisle angled like it is in the existing conditions like you have here on the south, I'm sure there's a way that we could kind of look at that. But again, we did hear the desire for, I think, enhanced pedestrian circulation as well as picking up parking if we were able to. Yes, we're only yielding a few in this version, but the previous master plan version, I think we picked up almost 30 parking spaces. So we've scaled that back to what we're at now today. In this graphic here, you can see that at the south end, right in front of Dock B, the existing sidewalk pretty much ends. Yeah. And then now you're walking in an asphalt paved area to get to the Dock C entrance. In the proposed circulation, in order to create that full connectivity, we had to remove that triangular wedge and widen out that area in order to make that sidewalk connection to C and to provide that full connectivity. Mainly because the road just gets so narrow that if we try and put in more sidewalk and more green space, you start choking down that driveway through that area. And that's why we wanted to make those modifications. In some ways, the green space impacts that occurred in the park were kind of shifted to an enhanced green space at the marina walk. Because by widening that and creating more pedestrian-oriented space, we've kind of horse-traded a little bit there for where the green space is. I get that. I get it. Yeah, but part of this whole master plan is increasing pedestrian walkability. Around the marina, that's wonderful. But then we offset it by additional parking and taking away green space in other areas. And I understand the horse trading and green space versus walkability and things of that nature. I understand it. But I'm just a big fan of, well, everybody else knows I'm a big fan. When it comes to the Harbormaster building, are we, and I just can't recall, and I'm sure we talked about this, are we talking with Walt and especially the things that are impacting Old Bay Cafe? And does he have financial skin in the game? I'm not sure when his contract is up for termination or for him to rebid for that space. But he is aware of everything that is going on. And so far, he's been very supportive with the East Wall Project going on. And there is some impact as far as the noise goes. But his outlook is, let's get it done. It's got to be done. Seems like it's abundant another five years to me. And then we just signed it. I can't remember how long ago it was. Yeah, I don't know how. I wasn't involved in that. That was done about the time that I went to the marina right afterwards. So I'm not sure how long that contract is. Yeah, because I think that's going to greatly improve his business, which already does a fantastic job. That's all that I have, Mayor. Thank you. Commissioner Degard. I'd like to hear a little bit more about the entrance and the mitigation we're making relative to storm and sustainability issues. Because that does seem to diminish our ability to navigate north from the mouth of the marina. And I worry about also cross traffic. Help me understand how we're planning this to make sure we don't have any cross traffic issues. Because everybody's going to be coming in from the southwest, as I see it, in the future in your layout. Help me understand that our value proposition is significantly enhanced. Yes, you just passed it. There you go. So this one here, we're just envisioning that you're going to follow the channel to the south, at which point in time, when you connect into the main channel, you can head north. I do agree that the ability to just turn and go north is inhibited by this. But part of this layout was to try and create this breakwater component to create a more calm environment within your marina and also to provide more day dock operations here. Now, this bid includes all of the pier as well as the stone that we're going to put in there? Yes. So it's all included? Yes, sir. That's all I have, Mayor. Thank you. Okay. Vice Mayor. No further questions, but I do have two quick comments, but I'll reserve those. Okay. Yeah, let's get that. That's good. And Commissioner Sandbergen. No additional questions, Mayor? Okay, just a couple small ones, I think. So walking out to the sailing center for pedestrians along that roadway, there's nothing for them to walk on. So it's still kind of, you know, the trust system. Yeah, the access from kind of the boat ramp area there out to the peninsula really remains unchanged. And it's just really, we'd give up way too much space there and make it hard to do. Yeah, it's very tight. We'd use water real estate to create that walkway that would. Okay. Yeah. Okay, that was one. And again, so the thinking is, and I'm assuming that might be how the flow is now, when a car comes in with the trailer and a boat, it's coming in from the north side now. Correct. And it will continue to come now. So we're just making that turn better so that they can get to the boat ramp better. Okay. And also by widening out that area closest to the boat ramp, there'll be a way for people that are not waiting to use the boat ramp to navigate past without there being as tight of a choke point there. Got it. Got it. Okay. I guess my question is the city manager. You know, this is a lot and it is new and so new. Some of our slides aren't totally up to date. How do we make sure we've vetted this enough? Well, we've been to the Marine Advisory Committee several times on this actually, and we did commit to the Marine Advisory Committee that we would come back to them with those, specifically those dimensions in the fairways. Excuse me. And answering any additional questions that we had. So we owe the Marine Advisory one more visit on this. And then it would come to the City Commission. It needs to be an action item because it's a master plan. We need a formal adoption. So that would be another opportunity for public comment for all of you as well. So there are additional opportunities for public comment. There have been people at the Marine Advisory Committee or guests who have commented on it as well. So I think it's been vetted. It's certainly been out there. People understand what it is. And we will send a notice directly to all the slip renters when we schedule for approval before the City Commission as well. And Lori can do that via her newsletter. So basically the answer is it will go back to Marine Advisory. It will come back to us. And in the meantime, this will kind of get out there to the world. It will be one of our projects on our website. People can look at the updates. It is now. It is now. Isn't it? This most recent version? I think we have a project page out there. Yeah, I thought we had a project page. What we can do is we'll upload this PowerPoint to that project page. And then Lori can send out a notice and we'll attach the PowerPoint to everybody, all the slip renters in the marina. Okay. Is it possible for us to fix those typos before? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Thank you. I mean, if it looked worse and then it got better, people would be okay. But if it's better and then it gets worse, they wouldn't be okay. I would say, if I may, Mayor, we'll send it out as soon as we're done with this meeting and the next newsletter. As soon as the changes are made, right? Yeah. And as soon as you change the typos, we won't have a date for the City Commission meeting yet. We'll get through Marine Advisory and then we'll send out the date of your formal adoption. So really what you want from us today is just any general comments and are we on the right track? Yes. Consensus direction to move forward with what you see here with the typos. Okay, so based on that, does anybody else have any other questions before we go to comments? Okay. Then I will start right over here to the left of me. Did you do public? Oh, I'm sorry. Is there anyone out there who would like to speak on this issue? Come forward now. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Harry, Jim, you're good, right? Okay. Yeah, no, no. We were, you know. Okay, so final comments, Commissioner. I'm just surprised, Harry. I'm just surprised. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. That's okay. All right. Okay. Commissioner Gao, final comments. First, thank you for the presentation. And it is nice that we continue to move forward on this project, even though it's taking some time. I mean, I don't understand why. Overall, it looks good. Things we weren't talking about today that I'm hoping it's because they're no longer being considered. But we talked about it. At one point, there was a big redo of Edgewater Park as well. That includes signage on the east side for the downtown. And we didn't discuss any of that. It didn't look like it's in the presentation. So I'm assuming that we are going back to smaller and simpler surgical cuts to the marina and the park. That is correct. So I do appreciate that. No, it looks good. Certainly, I have concerns over the north end of that park and what we're going to do and to minimize. Because also, widening the road there, widening roads never improve traffic circulation or speed, right? So it only makes cars drive faster and things of that nature. So even though there's parking areas there, but I think a little choke point is actually good for safety. And I'm taking away green space, but I certainly do like the added walkability. And I'm a big proponent of pedestrian safety at the north end there by waltz, which has always been kind of crazy. Acknowledging that no matter what we do, they're still going to be a little crazy. But that's a nice problem to have when it's about walkability. But other than that, thank you for the presentation. Okay. Commissioner DeGuard, final comments. Thank you, Mayor. Good job. Even though we had a few bumps, it was a good job. Well, I think that the response of you, of your team, to the changes has actually created the bumps. So responsiveness is a much greater quality than precision from time to time. So I'm glad to see that. I think that this is going to be a plan that's going to make some decisions for us. And I still have a few concerns about that. For instance, the use of the ramp itself, who's going to have access to that, whether it's just going to be residents, those kind of things. I think there's some questions still out there. And I want to be sure those get answered by the time we come back for final commission approval. But we have no problems here that another quarter acre of water wouldn't have fixed. So we know you had a postage stamp problem and you addressed it well. Thank you, Mayor. Vice Mayor, final comments. Thank you, Mayor. So first of all, you know, I greatly appreciate the presentation and we are making progress. I get a lot of feedback from the Marina people and the Marine Advisory Committee. And I want to make sure that the Marine Advisory Committee gets heard because there are some valid points that have come out. And I'll just mention one in particular. I think that timeline for the dock replacements, A, B, C, I think we can do better than that. I understand the external challenge of Army Corps of Engineers. But at the end of the day, I'm just asking that we lean as far forward, gain whatever time we can get on the left-hand side of that so that we can get that done. Because here's the deal. You know, we approve the floating docks because it ultimately will be the more resilient solution. And that part of it, so if it continues to be FY28, you know, we're just setting ourselves up for more storm damage, my opinion. Now, you know, on that note, and this is my final comment, is that there were two lessons learned that came out of Caladesi. Number one, the pilings were too short and the floating docks were floating off the pilings. That was one. But once they floated off the pilings, because of the fact that they were made of aluminum, now they were subject to wind. So those are really the two lessons learned. And so when we get down to the point of material, you know, I think we need to make sure that we consider that. So that's all I have, Mayor. Thank you. Commissioner Sandberg, in final comment? It's nice to see it finally moving. It's important. It anchors that entire west side of the city. But more than just for the boats and the slips, you know, it's a destination for the entire community. My kids grew up in that park. You know, 35 years ago, I remember, you know, they were in there playing. And, you know, and that's just, we have to continue to move this thing forward. And I think to kind of jump on what the vice mayor said, there's any way that we can expedite this for the, you know, these folks have been patient. And before we know it, it's going to be two years that it's been in that state of disrepair. So I appreciate your presentation, and I think we pretty much are on the same page. Let's keep it going. Thanks. Well, I appreciate all the work that's been done. I know that the original master plan, you know, although there was a lot of good there, was way too massive. And this is way more practical for, I think, who Dunedin is and what we want. I like, I love, love, love some of the pedestrian-friendly things that you've been able to do. I understand as much as I'd love, you know, there to be a walkway to the sailing center that the cost benefit of that or, you know, the give and take probably doesn't make sense for that. But I love all the other things that you did. You know, I'd love for us not to get into any green space being taken, but I think you've minimized it. And I also can see how some of that offset clearly is to make it a better workable area and very pedestrian-friendly. So I do like all that. But I do agree that it feels like when we were going to do Doc A's and B's in 28, 29, that that is not in keeping with what we've talked about. And I would really like to stay within what we've talked about, which to me was in 2027. And so as much as we can look at that, I think we should. Again, I mean, I say this only because it comes up, you know. On my street, I've still got a house that's been lifted and is far from being livable yet and a house that was torn down. You know, we have a lot of residents still rebuilding from the storm. It takes time. But I'm glad we're continuing to move this. And if we can continue to, you know, keep our jewel moving along because it totally is our jewel, it would be great. And the whole community really, it's not just the boat owners. It's the community, it's our visitors who love that whole ambience of that area. So I would like to see the timeline move along quicker, too, if we can, without any, you know, giving up anything. But, again, overall, I like the pedestrian friendliness of it. And I think it actually will add a lot to that whole kind of attraction for our residents and visitors to kind of come and visit. And you don't have to be a boater. You just like the view. So, okay. So you have what you need? We do. Okay. So we'll see this again. All right. So informational items, anything, city manager, the attorney, city clerk. Okay. And I did want to, anybody else have anything good for the order? Only comment I was going to make is that we do have, you tell me, Jeff. I think there's a request for us to wear kilts on Thursday night because we're welcoming. Clan Elliott. Clan Elliott. In the house. So if we can do that, that would be great and greatly appreciated and in keeping with the theme of the night. So, okay. Thank you. And the meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.