CITY COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING - Feb 19, 2026

perspective on what Rotary does and everything associated with it. The actual Rotary event is on Wednesday the 25th next week. It starts at 5 30 and anyway I invite all of you to attend. It's going to be we have so many organizations at the community center that have signed up for tables and a whole bunch of stuff. This thing gets bigger every year so please if you've got time to do it come come visit us at the Peace Poll. Now on to the proclamation. Peace Day in Dunedin 2026. Whereas the city of Dunedin recognizes that peace is not merely the absence of conflict but the presence of compassion understanding and cooperation among individuals and communities and Rotary International through its local clubs and global network has long been a leading advocate for peace goodwill and service above self empowering communities to resolve conflict promote dialogue and build lasting relationships founded on the mutual respect and the three Rotary clubs in Dunedin planted a Rotary Peace Poll in Highlander Park on February 23rd 2022 with plans to bring our community together yearly to honor a commitment to the ideal of peace and the Rotary theme for this year. Unite for good calls upon all people to work together across differences uniting hearts hands and minds to strengthen our shared humanity and to foster a more caring and inclusive world and Dunedin's many non-profit organizations faith communities schools and civic groups embody the spirit of unity through their daily efforts to serve others upper uplift the vulnerable and create opportunities for all residents to thrive in peace and dignity. Peace Day in Dunedin provides an opportunity for our city to join with Rotary and other community partners to celebrate acts of kindness to renew our commitment to non-violence and to collaborate in building bridges of understanding within our neighborhoods and beyond. So I Robert James Walker by virtue of the authority vested in me by the mayor of the city of Dunedin Florida and on behalf of the entire city commission do hereby proclaim February 23rd 2026 as Peace Day in Dunedin and urge all citizens organizations and institutions to join in activities that promote peace unity and goodwill. Let us honor Rotary's vision to unite to unite for good working together to make Dunedin a beacon of harmony compassion and shared purpose. Okay now we have government communicators day February 20th 2026 proclamation and I will turn that over to Commissioner Dugard. Thank you mayor could I have the entire communications team come forward please and by the way anybody that thinks they're on the communications team they can come forward too. Anybody that wants to be on the Not if you communicate on Facebook though. None of that. Whereas the role of government communication professions is to inform, educate, and encourage their communities and where as robust communication in government creates trust and inspires residents to take action and be involved and where as government communications create relationships and calls to action, build awareness, understanding through storytelling, engage and foster engagement on civic issues and use all channels to include people in critical decisions. And whereas it is essential to have strong communications in government because it is a foundational element of living in a democracy where citizens have the freedom to make their voice heard. And whereas the city of Dunedin is proud and has deep gratitude and recognition for government communicators, their professionalism, dedication, hard work, commitment, enthusiasm, and sacrifice. Now I, Tom Dugard, by the authority vested in me from the mayor of Dunedin, Mo Freeney, do hereby, excuse me, of the city of Dunedin and on behalf of the entire city commission, do hereby proclaim February 20th, 2026 as Government Communications Day in Dunedin, Florida, and encourage all residents to thank the members of the Communications Department who have dedicated their careers to ensure Dunedin has effective, impactful, and successful communication strategies that resonate and are relevant. Thank you. I have a few words. Yes, of course. Give me a microphone. Thank you, Mayor, Commissioners, for this proclamation, recognizing the importance, the important role of government communications and the value that it brings to our community. And I think maybe we have told you this is a national day tomorrow that our national agency or industry, yes, yes, our agency that supports government communicators really wants to elevate and recognize the role that we play in cities and counties all over the country. So I want to introduce my talented team that hopefully you know they are the architects behind all of the content and all the communication strategies that we create every day and every week. Kate McVeigh is our communication manager. Rebecca Nelson is our digital website. I can't even think tonight. Website coordinator. And Brooke Nolan, who you see all over with her cameras, she is our senior multimedia coordinator. They are also the creativity behind the content, videos, and photography that captures Dunedin's brand spirit and the stories about our community and the people who live and work here. We are proud of the awards we have won this past year and in prior years, both from the Florida Municipal Communicators Association and our state association, 3CMA, which I just mentioned, which is our national association. The 3CMA award that we won this year was for last year's State of the City video, which we are very proud of, which really captured the heart of Dunedin Strong as we recovered from the 2024 hurricanes. While we have many ways to keep residents informed, the best way is to subscribe to the Dunedin News. And you will see at your places tonight, we have given you some cards as a reminder when you are out and about in the community and people want to know how they can be informed, have them to subscribe to the Dunedin News. And I hope everyone here in the audience has heard that message as well. That is the best way to get our information directly to your inbox every Thursday at 3 o'clock. Kate does the little teases on Wednesday, which give people an idea of what will be in that Dunedin News. And often we are publishing information in the Dunedin News that may not be on social media because not everyone wants to be on social media. People are actually pulling away from social media. So we are very proud to work with all of our departments, to serve the community, to work with you, to elevate not only information and education, but also public trust. So thank you very much. So Sue, on behalf of the commission, because I'm not going to let this moment go by, you know, I worked for the city 22 years, I went for the county 9 years, I came back 8 years as a commissioner. No, I'm not really that old. And now I'm mayor, and I just want you to know, like, so I've been, I say that because I've been involved in the operations of the city and the city, the city's life for a long time. And I think by far one of the smartest things they did for the first time was to hire a professional communication person in you. We got lucky with you for sure. And then you have a great team in Kate and Rebecca and Brooke. And I just, I can't thank you enough, because I think before anything else, if we can't communicate well, our message will never get heard, it'll never get out there. Your team is amazing. And I know I speak for everybody out there. Thank you. Appreciate that. So now who's going to take the picture, since you all have to be in it? Where's Trevor? Okay, there we go. Can Trevor do this? Okay, well-deserved accolades for that crew. Okay, we're going to go to World Whale Day 2026 Proclamation, and we'll turn it over to Commissioner Gow. Well, thank you, Mayor, very much. World Whale Day Proclamation, this is a new proclamation for me, but I'm very excited. I can't tell you for how long whales have been underrepresented. And so the idea that we can put them rightfully back in their place on the pedestal that they so, so justly deserve. Can I have the members of the Sierra Club please stand, come forward, and be recognized for this glorious day on World Whale Day 2026. All right, and it's long, so everybody get comfortable. Oh, that's a good-looking group. Wonderful. World Whale Day 2026. Whereas the City of Dunedin wishes to be a responsible steward of coastal environment and marine biodiversity, both within our jurisdiction and beyond. And local residents and visitors to the City of Dunedin cherish the natural beauty and the wildlife found in and around the Gulf, including shorebirds, sea turtles, manatees, and whales. It's all good. Staff from the City of Dunedin work every day to protect that natural beauty and local wildlife. And there are some 17 species of whales that live in the Gulf year-round and swim offshore from nearby waters, including various examples of toothed whales, toothed whales, beaked whales, and baleen whales, with more commonly species to include sperm whales, killer whales, melon-headed whales, that's what my sister would call me, and pygmy sperm whales. And among these marine mammals in the Gulf is one of the most endangered whale species in the world, the rice's whale, a unique great whale found only in the Gulf, with a population of fewer than 100 individuals. And the rice's whales have lived in the Gulf for approximately 3 million years, and are known to spend most of their time near the ocean's surface, where they are especially vulnerable to human threats, such as oil spills, ship strikes, plastic pollution, and seismic blasting from offshore drilling activities. And around the world, the port, shipping, and fishing industries are taking action to slow down and watch for whales in areas where whales are present. And rice's whales contribute to the Gulf's ecological health through their role in nutrient cycling and ocean productivity, and are a symbol of our region's rich and fragile marine heritage. As the City of Dunedin supports ongoing research, conservation measures, and public education to protect whales and other marine life in the Gulf, I, Jeff Gow, by the virtue of the authority vested in me by the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, and on behalf of this entire Commission, do hereby proclaim February 15, 2026, as World Whale Day, in celebration of Gulf whales and local efforts to conserve them. We do have a little bit more education. That was a lot, though, right? Me too. I feel like I learned something today, too. If it's okay. Good evening, Mayor Franey, members of Council, City staff. I'm Megan Colby. I'm a Dunedin resident and also a member of the Suncoast Sierra Club Executive Committee. On behalf of Sierra Club Florida, thank you for your leadership and for your partnership in recognizing World Whale Day and the urgent need to protect one of our most extraordinary and most endangered Gulf neighbors, the Rice's Whale. This proclamation matters for the whale tail it shares. It matters because the Rice's Whale lives nowhere else on Earth but here in our Gulf. These whales are not seasonal visitors. They're permanent residents, woven into the fabric of this ecosystem for millions of years. And today, with fewer than 100 individuals remaining, they stand at a crossroads. What we choose to do now will determine whether their whale tail continues or ends in extinction. Dunedin's leadership... Megan, can you step forward a little more? Sure. Lift the mic up a little bit. Maybe that's probably part of it. Dunedin's leadership tonight is especially meaningful because this community sits at the very heart of the Florida Gulf Coast Hope Spot, a globally recognized stretch of ocean spanning from Apalachicola Bay to the 10,000 islands. Hope spots are places identified by science as critical to the health of our oceans, and Dunedin stands right at that nexus. In doing so, this city continues to honor the legacy of one of its hometown heroes, Dr. Sylvia Earle, a lifelong champion for our oceans, founder of Mission Blue, and a global voice reminding us that no blue, no green. Her work has helped the world understand that protecting the ocean and all of its inhabitants and the communities that rely on her bounties is not optional. It is essential for our continued survival. By issuing this proclamation, Dunedin is once again serving as a beacon of hope and leadership on Florida's Gulf Coast. It sends a clear message that this community values stewardship, science, and responsibility, not just for today, but for generations to come. We're grateful to stand with you as partners, not only tonight, but moving forward. We're excited to celebrate together as presenters and vendors at the upcoming Gulf Coast Fest next weekend, honoring our Florida Hope Spot and the life it sustains. And thank you to the leadership of Natalie Gass and her staff for putting this celebration together. And in the months ahead, we look forward to working with the city, community partners, and local leaders on Rice's Whale Beach Banner Days across the Gulf Coast, continuing to share this whale story and invite the public into action. Protecting the Rice's Whale isn't just about saving a species, it's about protecting the health of the Gulf, the resilience of our coastal communities, and the legacy we leave behind to generations that come after us. If anybody wants to learn more or get involved, we invite you to visit ourgulfwhale.org and join us in ensuring that this whale song does not fade into silence. Thank you again, Mayor, Council, and staff for your leadership, your partnership, and your commitment to marine conservation for World Whale Day. This is a moment Dunedin and all of us should be proud of. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. I'll get over there. Look at the organization. Nobody will be seen in this action. It is a whale. It is a whale. It is a whale. Oh, nice. I like that. I'm going to have to have to have it. And this is all the other side of the material, but it's all the side of the material, so you might know if we've got it. Maybe I'm, yeah. Yeah. It's all good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And then I need to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's all good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You certainly have to take care of the precious gift we've been given in this coastline. I'll say that. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Megan. Thank you. Okay. We only have 10 more proclamations, so don't worry about it. Okay. We are going to go to citizen input. Does anyone in the audience wish to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? I know that Mr. Nigro needed to get out of here, so I'll let him go first. But then anyone else that wants to speak on something not on the agenda. So name, address, and three minutes. Name, George Nigro, address 98 place number 502, Dunedin, Florida. Fellow citizens, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. My name is George Nigro, and I am an advisory member of the Dunedin Public Theater, the DPT. First, two invitations. Tonight, the DPT presents four great comedians at the Andrews Memorial Chapel. It starts at 7 p.m. There are still seats available. There's a great comedian there who is actually going to be the emcee and a performer at the Scottish Edinburgh Festival. You don't want to miss him. Second, mark the calendar. Tuesday, April 23rd, 7 p.m., again, Andrews Memorial Chapel. The DPT will be presenting an event entitled A Play, A Pie, and A Pint. It's a great celebration of Talladesa Island, the history, and especially Myrtle's share of bets. Tickets? Of course. TheNedinPublicTheatre.com. TheNedinPublicTheatre.com. We'd like to bring you off to date on where we are and where we're going. The citizens and businesses of Dunedin have contributed tens of thousands of dollars to the DPT. The funds go to many of our artists and presenters, but most importantly have gone to the now finalized feasibility study. That study was conducted by Keen Independent Researcher of Phoenix, Arizona. That study confirmed our suspicion that a professional theater in Dunedin was not only viable, but also sustainable. Viable and sustainable, yes. We received grants and thank you for your recent organizational grant. Sponsorships are increasing. Social media followers are increasing. And we submitted a state appropriations request, which was sponsored by Representative Bierfeld and Senator DeKegel. We also thank the commission for your support in Tallahassee. Yes, we're moving forward. As you know, we had several possible locations, but no confirmation yet. But that does not stop us from identifying the specifics of a professional theater. Loading access, visible ticketing, sound and lighting separation, dedicated dressing rooms, flexible seating risers, permanent lighting grids, a sprung floor for dancers, and adjustable masking for multipurpose scenery. All not luxuries, but necessities to a professional public theater. DPT remains collaborative and committed to working with our entire community, and with the commission, to work toward the construction, the opening, and the dedication of a Dunedin Public Theater. To the citizens and businesses of Dunedin, we close with a phrase from the movie Twilight. Hold on, Spider-Man, it's gonna happen. Thank you. I have to give you a hand on that one. Thank you, George. Thank you, Jackie. Okay, does anyone else in the audience wish to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? Okay, name, address, and three minutes. Yeah. Rob Kozen, Chesterfield Drive Dunedin, Father Bob Swick. Peggy Ray Drive. Peggy Ray Drive. First of all, since, just before I give you my talk, since we're congratulating a team of local women for all the good job they've done, I just want to congratulate another group of women. The United States National Women's Hockey Team won gold today over Canada. So another group of women we should be very proud of. The reason why I'm here today, along with Father Swick, is to do another message of encouragement for the city to seriously consider us becoming a Red Star community. At the end of this month, there will be the first national gala, a fundraiser for Red Star, that has now, in the course of less than a year, become a national organization. The city of Dunedin has an opportunity to be the second Red Star city in the country. This gala, the guests of honor, you should know. First of all, Jose Pekino, United States Marine, who was seriously injured in Iraq, who has been to many of our ceremonies over the years. Also, Admiral Mullen, who is the 17th chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Three recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor. And once the word was out that we were having this gala, Gary Sinise, you know, the Lieutenant Dan Band. Gary Sinise, you know, from Forrest Gump, offered to play, to come to Tampa and play to support the Red Star Foundation. Huh? With a 17-member band, not just Gary Sinise. I realized that there was a cost incurred with making the application, a $1,000 application, which is standard. So I want you to know that the three military guys here, Rob Walker, Navy, Rob Cozen, Navy, Father Splick, United States Marines, we will, on our own, pay that $1,000 so the city of Dunedin can become a Red Star Foundation. Okay? So again, we just implore you, please take a serious look at the application. It is very timely because I would love to be able to go to Tampa at the end of the month and give the news that the city of Dunedin has, in fact, become a Red Star City. Thank you for your consideration of that. Thank you very much. Anticipating that it's going to be a unilateral yes for this, I do have a little token here to give to the mayor on behalf of the city and on behalf of the Red Star Foundation. I represent the foundation as the national chaplain and it's just a tremendous honor. This is an organization that's helping the families and the friends of those that commit suicide. And in the military environment, we still have over 20 men and women, many women over 20 every day that commit suicide. And every suicide affects at least 85 upwards to 150 other members, not just family but friends. And the whole organization is dedicated to bring together camaraderie among those that have suffered. And Clearwater being the first foundation city, the mayor's father, after serving in the army for, I think, 30 years, did commit suicide. And that was 35 years ago. And the mayor still suffers from that. So, on behalf of the foundation, allow me to present you with us. Mayor? I think, yeah, just explain real quickly, then I'm going to move on to other citizen input. But it's important. I want to make sure people do know what it is. So just explain briefly what it is. Yes. Just real quickly. You know, there is the Gold Star Foundation, which represents families who have lost, lost a member of their family in battle. The Red Star Foundation represents and supports families where one of their members of the families committed suicide. And it's a gap that we have had in our system. Because not only is there no support system on any level, VA, social, community for families of someone who has committed suicide, it's a stigma that's put onto the family. So there's so much work that has to be done. So the Red Star Foundation is there to fill that gap. Probably the worst statistic that we could ever say is that twice as many soldiers commit suicide than die on the battlefield. And that's an unacceptable, unacceptable statistic. So that's what the Red Star Foundation is trying to do, is to help and support those people. So, again... Just for anybody else getting three minutes out there, I let them have six. So... Anyway, thank you, gentlemen. No, thank you. It's a very important message. Yeah. Very important message. Thank you very much. Okay. Name and address in three minutes. Matt Horvath, 1409 Red Oak Drive. Good evening. I visit Hammock Park almost every day and have been actively observing invasive plant conditions there for over two years. I'm here tonight about the proposed resolution to dissolve the Hammock Advisory Committee. I spent some time today chatting with other park attendees, and without exception, none of the residents were aware of the HAC, that it needs members, or that it's planned to be dissolved and merged. All those I spoke to were concerned to hear about the planned dissolution. I have three specific concerns. First, the no oversight clause. The draft resolution states that the new consolidated committee is, quote, not authorized to serve as an oversight entity regarding the operational issues of the city's public services. The new committee's stated purpose, preserved in the draft resolution, is to analyze the environmental conditions in the Hammock and to recommend management measures. You cannot fulfill that purpose if you are simultaneously prohibited from asking whether the management work is being done. I ask the commission to either remove that clause or to clarify that it does not prevent the committee from inquiring into invasive species operations. Second, the standard that this commission has set. At the 2021 Continuance Review, Commissioner Franey, now mayor, stated, quote, The Hammock Advisory is one of the most critical committees in the city. The city has this amazing park, which this committee protects as though it was its own, unquote. In 2024, this commission voted unanimously to continue the committee. By early 2026, confirmed by the city clerk, it had collapsed to as few as three of the required nine members, unable to achieve quorum. The committee that Susan Humphries contributed so much to is now being dissolved. How was the committee characterized as most critical, allowed to quietly lose quorum? If consolidated, the new body must be empowered to ask the questions that the HAC was created to answer. Third, the timing. I see the hardworking staff at the park almost every day. Are the horticultural technicians working in the hammock? And if so, are they doing invasive management? Have they trained park staff on how to identify the worst invasives so they can be spot corrected or flagged for the horticultural technicians to deal with? The testimony to this commission and the documentation that I have been able to find, as well as my own nearly daily observations and walking the park trails, suggest that the work has primarily been in trail management and signage management, not invasive species management. When the park has more daily visitors since COVID, why has the HAC membership been allowed to attrit? What efforts have taken place to make residents aware of the need to recruit new members? I personally spoke to a number of residents today at the park that expressed potential interest in serving. Why dissolve this most critical committee when the problem seems to be awareness, not a willingness of the residents? The commission's being asked to restructure the oversight body before these critical questions have been publicly answered and addressed. I ask you to consider whether those questions should be answered first. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Anyone else wish to speak to anything that's not on the agenda? So name and address in three minutes. My name is Amy Shonak. I live at 720 Bay Street. I'm here for the same reason he's here and everything he said. I was just walking in the park before I came here. I didn't see him, but I did see some information about this advisory committee that it looks like is going to be dissolved. And as I was walking in the park before I saw that, I saw the potato vine, which I'm sure everybody is familiar with or the gardeners are familiar with. And my instant reaction is go grab it and pull it down. And then I didn't because I know that really we shouldn't be touching things like that if we're not in charge or not working toward that. I'm a gardener. I'm a naturalist. So I didn't. And then I saw it again and it struck me. And I just want to say how important it is for us to be good stewards of our environments, like the Sierra Club and the whales. We need to take care of that park and it's a different park than the other city parks. It's a whole, it's 90 acres and it's a whole, its own ecology. And I would be glad to be on that committee. And I hope that we really, before we dissolve that committee, we find a way to make sure that we're managing it so that all the species can continue to flourish and the invasive species can be maintained in a way that the park can seem like it's original. Yeah, I appreciate the comments. Just, I mean, it is being merged into Rec and Park's board, right? So it's not going to be the, the, the, the goals won't be ignored. They'll, it'll just be merged into Rec and Park. And also they'll still be friends of the hammock, which is still, as far as I know, extremely active. Correct? It does do a lot of special things, right? Right. That part of this merging that invasive species management was specifically not going to be addressed. And, you know, he seemed. Yeah, he, he left. But we'll, we appreciate the comment and we'll, we'll certainly look and make sure that we're covering the. If we ignore that. Sure. We're kicking the can down 10 years from now to a park that's covered with invasive species, unable to be able to control. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate your comment. Yeah, we're, we're not, we're not going to do clapping just because if there's different sides of something, we try not to clap. Um, obviously we'll clap for Rob Cozen because that's in Father Bob because that's a great topic we're all agreeing on. But anyway, uh, three minutes and name and address. Hi, my name's Fiona Richardson. I live at 1340 Hales Hollow Drive in Dunedin, of course. Um, you started off this meeting by doing a proclamation about peace. And we have a problem in our neighborhood. And I wish that we had peace in our neighborhood. But unfortunately it's got to the point that we have to bring this to the city's attention. You see our entire street lives with a rock band behind us and the rock band practices three times a week for approximately five hours at a time. Because of that. Because of that. I'm sorry. Yeah. And because of that, um, the noise, because we're about 25 feet from the wall of my house to the wall of the building with the band in it. Um, the, they have a very deep bass in their rock band and it resonates through our entire houses. So when you sit in my house, it's like you have somebody who's got a big bass speaker parked outside your house and it's rocking the house. Um, we've been there six years. We've been there six years. We're probably one of the, the newest members on the neighborhood. Um, but the other members of the neighborhood and some of our neighborhood are here today because they couldn't all come. Um, we, we have tried to talk to the owners of the buildings. It's, it is the church experience that houses the rock band. Um, we've tried to come to a resolution with them about it, be it soundproofing, be it that they move the stage away and put it on the other side of the building. But we have not, it goes down for a little while and then it comes back up again. Our only resolution for the entire neighborhood is to call the police. The police come out to those probably, if you look at the records and we have the records, hundreds of phone calls in the last six years about this. Um, they come out and all they can do is go to over there and ask them to turn it down. Now, it doesn't meet the decibel, but when we read the ordinance, we read it as that if it's a nuisance to an entire neighborhood disturbing our peace, then, then that's considered a nuisance, a noise nuisance, right? Um, the sheriff's department doesn't read it that way. They believe that it has to meet the 65 decibels, but this is a deep base rumbling through your house. Um, so, so no, thank you. And I don't know, do you want to give a card? Maybe you can touch base, get together. Yeah. Let me go ahead and touch base with the Penelope County Sheriff's Office as well. Cause I, I, I had heard of this, uh, situation. I thought it was resolved. So, uh, let me, yeah, let me meet, uh, with the Sheriff's Office and talk to our attorney a little bit about the intent of the ordinance. And then I'm going to give you my card and, and if you can send me an email so I can, uh, communicate with you. Thank you. Mayor, just out of curiosity, I didn't hear where that property was. I'm sorry. I, where, where do you actually live? What's your street? It's on St. Chris. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Okay. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Good evening, mayor and city council members. My name is Thomas Richardson and I reside at 1340 Hales Hollow Drive in Dunedin. I live across the street from the post office and directly adjacent to the church experience. It's this precisely this experience that I wish to bring to your attention this evening. Uh, don't get me wrong. We're talking about an ongoing excessive noise produced by the church experience on one four zero zero San Christopher, uh, for the, for six years plus continues to disturb the peace, health, comfort, and wellbeing of the residents and neighbors residing adjacent to or around the direct vicinity of the church. Uh, this is, as she said, as my wife said earlier, this is a concert, a concert style music performed on stages with amplified sound, loudspeakers, PA systems, bass guitars, and drums. Uh, the bass noise coming from the church is so loud that we can feel the vibration sitting inside our homes. You can feel the beating in your chest. It's impossible to ignore. And there's nothing less than intrusive to all of us, uh, living next to this. Here's the problem, mayor. Law enforcement says they can't do anything because the church is not doing anything criminal and they are not breaking the law. They've said that the noise emanating from the church does not exceed the decibel threshold to 65 decibels measured at the property line. Uh, this part of the Dunedin city ordinance is true. However, for some reason, the rest of the ordinance is not being applied, addressed, or even considered as it pertains to noise nuisance. I know you're familiar with this, but if I may, as per the city of Dunedin ordinance, 24 dash 22, section two 107 dash 41, it shall be unlawful for any person to willfully make continue or cause to be made or continued any noise, which because of its volume level duration and or character, a noise disturbs, injures, or endangers the comfort, health, peace, or safety or safety of reasonable persons of ordinary sensibilities and tolerances for sound levels within the city limits. The following violations, uh, that are, uh, declared to be unlawful noises and subject to the penalty provided in section C. The production of sound, including sounds from any amplifier or sound amplification devices, uh, that exceed a weight, a weighted decibel threshold of 65 measured at the property line of the complainant or which otherwise creates a nuisance keyword. Unless I am seriously misunderstanding the specific language and immediate context of this ordinance, I'd say that the volume level of noise, the duration of the noise, the characteristic of the noise being the extreme base, as well as the frequency of the noise and the number of lives it is affecting is the very definition of a nuisance and an unlawful noise. Honestly, we would just rather opt out of the church experience, but at the moment we don't seem to have a choice. Conclusion. So what's the solution? What is that we're asking for exactly? In all honesty, Mayor, it starts with either recognizing the language written in the ordinance or better defining the language in the ordinance. There seems to be confusion that neither law enforcement, uh, nor the city can agree on defining what a nuisance is, uh, creating a stalemate between four, uh, four entities, the complainants, the source of the problem, uh, in this case the church, uh, experience, law enforcement, and the city. Uh, one last final note, one more thing I think I want to say, and as I just want to say that we, we respect and support our law enforcement officers and what they do. We understand their hands are tied and they have to follow directives. I personally want to thank Officer Renee Papa-Mahill for her genuine efforts to mitigate this problem without bias or prejudice. Job well done and thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. And I can assure you will look into it. Does anyone else out here wish to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? Come forward. Name and address for the record and three minutes. Good evening. My name is Bill Zafros. I live at 1320 Hales Hollow Drive, a few doors down from Tom and Fiona. Uh, first I want to thank or congratulate your communications staff. I was in communications, government communications in a previous life and I never received such recognition. So I'm a little jealous. Uh, in any event, uh, in addition to the base, they have, uh, allowed their parking lot to become a playground. And at night the sound, literal sound of shrieking and yelling and every kind of noise you would hear on the last day of school, we can hear with the windows closed, with the doors closed. It emanates right through. If you're watching a movie, you can listen to that as well as the, as during the silent parts of the movie. Uh, they, I have talked to one of their officials and they said they would take care of it. They never did. Um, if anything, they've been antagonistic. One day this was going on when our neighbors, uh, were mourning the death of their mother. I walked over, this was about four o'clock on a Saturday, and one of the gentlemen from the church was throwing a football to a bunch of screaming kids right on our property line. And, uh, I went back and said, could you really tone it down, please? And he looked at me and he said, call the cops. Uh, and I thought, well, if that's your attitude, I guess that's what I'm going to have to do. And really does the sheriff's department have anything better to do than to go tell a bunch of kids to pipe down? I think they do. Uh, so I'd like them to have a little bit more consideration for their neighbors and, uh, be quiet. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on an item that's not on the agenda? Name and address for the record in three minutes. Thank you. My name is Jim Calgar. I live at 2092 Valley Drive, Dunedin. First off, good evening to everyone. Second, uh, I wish to thank, uh, the city manager, Jennifer, and her team for coming out to my home, uh, to talk about the drainage situation. I got some good information from her and, uh, I think we're going to make some progress. But a couple of things, one, um, I believe it's becoming a safety hazard. I chased some kids out of that ditch today. There's no reason why children should be in that ditch. It's dangerous. Somebody can get hurt severely, if not worse. So we need to look at that as well. Um, there are some animals, you know, snakes, raccoons in there. I don't want to see any kids get hurt, but I don't want my neighbors to have to suffer that way. Second, um, Jennifer brought up a really good issue about maintaining the water flow of the ditch, not maintaining the easement. But I'd like a little clarification on that, if I may. Um, you've all seen that, that area and it's needs help. But when I was, we were talking with Jennifer, uh, the city, I'm assuming it was the city. They come out and they mow the one side of that ditch. They mow the grass there. This, the city, um, put in the gabions. They maintain, they maintain the gabions and they maintain the water flow. But if you're, when they came out to do the repair that before they put the grass, the great, uh, the cloth down, they put the grass down, um, and, and such. Isn't that a, um, a form of maintenance to prevent soil erosion? And if so, the city has taken on an inferred responsibility to maintain that. So I'd like a little clarification on that. Um, if, if I could get that. So, um. We, we don't really do the back and forth here and at the end of it. No, I understand. I think probably, you know, the manager can contact you cause you, you've got a relationship now. And, um, uh, I don't know, maybe the city attorney can, can, uh, expand on it as well. But I want to thank you all for your very kind consideration and coming out to my home, talking with me. And as I expressed to Jennifer, let's work together to, to achieve a common goal, which is preventing soil erosion, maintaining the water flow and maintaining the integrity of that ditch. I want to thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it. Okay. Anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on an item that is not on the agenda? Okay. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Hello there, sir. Joe Palcoxie, Broadway and Elbert. I brought a hundred dollar bill here in case Jeff wore a shirt that I couldn't live without. But on a serious note, on a serious note, and it might be a little bit petty for some of you, but I want to talk just briefly about the road improvement project on Skinner. Okay. And I'd like to ask each and every one of you and members of the public to drive that stretch of highway between Alt 19 and 580. And when you reach the end of that drive, I want you to ask yourself, is this the best we can do? And if the answer is yes, that's okay. When I drive it, I see no less than 20 one-way signs sticking on a steel pole. One way in every direction except up. I think, personally, that that stretch of highway is our doormat for the people coming in to the historic downtown area from the north. Some creative signage and some landscape would go a long way on that stretch of road. Because there's nothing in that stretch of median, not even a dandy line. And it's our doorstep from the north. This is Dunedin. I think we can do better. In closing, as usual, thank you for what you do. Thank you for what you've done, and thank you for doing the right thing. Thank you. City Manager, you have your marching orders now. If I may, Mayor? Yes. Go ahead. You're right, Dale. We can do better, and we will, because the landscaping has not been installed by FDOT yet. And there's additional light posts and so on and so forth going in. So stay tuned. Landscaping will be installed, and we'll do better. I understand DOT and the rules and regulations. We can do better. Well, we will. We have a landscape plan. We're good. It's on the way, and when you really like it, we hope you'll come back and tell us. Right. There you go. It'll be installed during the summertime. We're not happy with that delay, but there'll be more than a dandelion, too. I can tell you that much. Okay. Anyone else in the audience who wants to speak on an issue that is not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close citizen input, and we'll go to consent agenda. So there's just a couple things on consent agenda. Approval of the minutes, and we have board and committee appointments. Were there any you were going to pull off? Yes. City manager needs to pull something off. If you wouldn't mind pulling 2B. 2B. Yes. Boards and committee appointments. Okay. So we're going to do the approval of the minutes for the 1-8-2026 regular meeting, and then we're going to get on to boards and committees and approve the committee on aging one, the C, which is library advisory, and then we have an LPA one, and a stormwater advisory committee. And so is there anything anybody wants to pull off other than that one? B. Michelle, you look like you're ready to say something. Yes, ma'am. I think we should pull item B, 2BB, and 2BE. And 2BE. Okay. Those two, right. Okay. Okay. And that's because those are the merging ones. Correct. So you guys are going to look at that. Okay. So without those two, could I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. And anyone in the audience wish to speak on any of the consent items? This will be your moment. Okay. Seeing no one, I'll close public input. And all in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Okay. We're going to go to action items. First action item is 3A, First Reading of Solid Waste Ordinance 26-01, Amending Section 66-101 of Chapter 66. The Code of Ordinance is for the City of Dunedin, Florida. And Jen, could you please read Ordinance 26-01 by title only? Ordinance 26-01, an Ordinance of the City of Dunedin, Florida, Amending the Code of Ordinances for the City of Dunedin to increase collection rates for solid waste services, providing for publication, providing for servability, providing for an effective date. That was Ordinance 26-01, read by title only. Okay. Could I have a motion? So moved. Second. I've got Commissioner Sandbergen and Vice Mayor Walker. Okay. So we'll go to staff presentation. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, and everyone else. We're here for the first reading of the Solid Waste Rate Ordinance. And I have joining me tonight, Michelle Monteclero, the Assistant Public Works Director. I'm Sue Bartlett, the Public Works Director. Forgot that part already. And Bill Pickrum, the Sanitation and Recycling Superintendent. Terry Boveri, the Vice President for Aftalis Consulting. And somewhere is Les Tyler with Finance, the Finance Director. Probably up there watching, but he's available. He's on the way from his office. I'm sorry. Yes, exactly. I just have a brief statement, and then we'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. In your agenda item, you'll find the ordinance that was read by title with attachments, and they include the rate table, the letter from the Board of Finance, and the workshop presentation from the December 2nd workshop where we presented the rate study results. Initially, the study was delayed based on the Commission's request to proceed with efficiency evaluation and implementation of those recommendations prior to having the study engaged so that we could implement the efficiencies prior to suggesting or recommending rates. Ordinance 2601 was developed after input and consensus direction from the Commission at the December 2nd workshop, at which time Raftalis Consulting Services presented its financial findings and recommendations of the study. We have taken the Commission's feedback and looked carefully at our replacement plan of vehicles, and we completely revised it, and we also have realized some of the savings from the withdrawal from the unincorporated area. Many of these anticipated savings have been incorporated into the model that was used to determine the rates. And we'll be presenting much greater detail on those savings on March 3rd at the workshop where we're going to provide a status on the efficiency update on that progress. So we'll provide you more details there. But they have been considered and coordinated. The Raftalis collaborated with Solid Waste Finance and the Efficiency Consultant as well as their expertise and reviewed the presentation and the rate basis and facts with the Board of Finance twice. And key drivers behind the rate increase included capital costs increasing, labor increases, recycling and disposal costs to name a few. And we have Terry and Les who can provide more details specifically if needed. So rates were actually reduced based on that from the initial figures that we had and what we were proposing so that we can have the stable fund to carry and sustain us through. And then all of those different things were included in the analysis. And we can go further into any questions that anybody has. We have the presentation up on the computer that we can bring up. For any of the slides that you may have questions on or any questions you may have. And again, we have this whole team here to answer questions if you have any. So I think, since it's the first public hearing and, you know, if citizens aren't aware or, you know, not everybody watches our work sessions, I think it's important to go over whatever you think the slides are that are going to show us the reason for the increase and what the increase really is and what that impact is to our citizens and our businesses. Good evening, members of the public. My name for the record is Terry Bovary with Reptalis. And I'll be giving a brief presentation to provide some context for the need for increasing the solid waste rates and charges. My thought would be to run you through the background and key issues and then the recommendations on the fee adjustments. So just as a reminder for members of the public that this is an enterprise fund, meaning that it doesn't receive any funding from the general fund. It's funded entirely from the user fees of the solid waste operations. So, you know, it has to operate like a business. And so local governments generally establish these types of operations as an enterprise fund and therefore the fees have to be set to recover the full cost of service. If not, then what ends up happening is deferred maintenance, service level failures, typically those types of issues that you run into. So maintaining a fiscally sustainable enterprise fund is critical in order to achieve the mission objectives of the solid waste enterprise. This provides a brief overview just of the direct staff involved in the number of vehicles and equipment to provide the service for the city at the time of the study. Obviously there have been some efficiency gains that Sue mentioned just a moment ago. I need to mention that these are the active day on day type operations. Total staff is around 20 FTEs. If you were to try to add it up, it wouldn't fit exactly. And that's because we have to have additional administrative staff and things of that nature. This provides an overview of the total number of accounts at the outset of the study and a breakdown between residential commercial and the total number of tons that are collected from the solid waste operations annually. So around 42,000 tons per year are collected on behalf of the city and residents within Dunedin. This is an important piece of information. I know the font size is small, so I'll read out for everyone a little bit more about what's being communicated here with this slide. But the city had performed a similar study to the one that we were engaged, Reptilis was engaged to perform this past year. When the other consultants performed that study back in 2020, it was based on a series of assumptions. Some of those assumptions related to projections and inflations related to the cost of operations. What happened subsequent to 2020, obviously that was COVID era, and then subsequent to COVID era, we saw pretty significant inflation that exceeded what the original rate study had contemplated. So that was one of the factors. This slide right here, the chart presents two bars, and they represent the operating expenses from what was previously forecasted versus what were the actual reported operating expenses. And you can see about a million dollar shortfall by 2025. And that's just based on the actual operating expenses. The proposed budget with inflation and other cost factors are actually higher. So the differential that we're starting out with at the outset of the forecast period, you could say we're coming from behind a little bit. And I wouldn't say that that's, you know, a fault of anyone necessarily. It's just that inflation was greater than what was originally contemplated when the rates were previously set, unfortunately. This provides a much more detailed breakdown of the operating expenses during the historical period through the forecast period and can show how the various cost increases occurred. It's important to note that even though, you know, we've identified these cost increases, we had an understanding, the city had an understanding of this issue. This is, again, some very small font, but it comes out of your prior year's budget book. And what's circled in red are the deficiencies, the negative annual year-over-year deficiencies that without remedy would cause issues, service-level issues and problems. So, you know, the city knew this was an issue, partly why we were engaged to perform the study. Inflation exceeded, you know, but city and city staff knew at the then time and brought before the commission, the mayor and the commission, you know, an idea to look at this, you know, perform the efficiency study and have the findings incorporated before we finished our study. And so, as a result of that, we were able to incorporate some savings, as Sue mentioned before, and as we'll be discussing in much greater detail later in the March 3rd presentation that will be made by Sue and the team from the city to go into those savings. So I think what we're trying to say is that inflation outpaced the prior forecast. We're a little bit come from behind. We still have inflation persisting in cost increases and the need to replace vehicles in order to continue to provide level of service on a recurring basis. We have to fund those deficiencies from user fees. And so, you know, city staff tried to exhaust all possible avenues before bringing forward this rate recommendation, hence the efficiency study that was incorporated to the study. And the result was, you know, our recommendations, which we had done a more thorough presentation on this in December of last year. But I'm just going to jump ahead to the fee recommendations that we have here. And the other point I wanted to make is that because we're coming from behind, so to speak, we don't have a whole lot of time to phase these increases over. So we identified the adjustments, you know, to be made effective April 1st of this upcoming year. And then again, 12 months subsequent to that, another adjustment. But then after that, we're anticipating that we will be at a sustainable level and require only minor or inflationary type rate adjustments. As you can see there, we estimate about a dollar per year. One of the things that came out of the discussions that we had when we had given this presentation to the Board of Finance, for example, was that, you know, they said, well, you know, could you index these rates on a recurring basis to ensure that we don't get too far behind? Because the rate increases were fixed percentage increases. And part of the problem was that inflation exceeded that. Is there a way to sort of better index to actual inflation so we don't have a larger hit on the rate increases in the near term and avoid that potential issue? And so we said yes, and part of our recommendation is that subsequent to the next two years of rate increases, we're proposing that the fees be indexed to the trash and collection index, which is a subcomponent to the consumer price index, as reported by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. And that is included in the ordinance. That recommendation has been incorporated and reviewed by legal, as well as the rate table that you see, it's more formalized in the ordinance so that it doesn't just call out residential. This is an example, but it does address all of the rates. And as Terry mentioned, we did not have a rate increase in October. So for this fiscal year, we're recommending that we have the first, that increase for the fiscal year in April. And then rather than come right behind that in October with another balancing increase, we have recommended that we stay the course for the year. And again, Terry's done the calculations that this will still get us where we need to go. And then that second year for FY27 will be in April also. And then we'll have the more modest increase come and get back on our annual schedule in October of the following year for FY28. Thank you, Sue. And I just close out also with the comparison of the fees for service with other communities within the region. And I think even with the, you know, greater increase that we're proposing in April, it still puts us slightly below the average for those on this comparison. And we can speak to that if there were more questions about the comparison since, you know, it's difficult sometimes to have a like for like comparison. But I think it is instructive to at least show members of the public where we're at, relatively speaking, in the market in the region. Thank you, Terry. Excuse me. Ready for questions. So I'm going to go ahead and start over with Vice Mayor. Questions? Thank you, Mayor. Good for the chart. It's the background and issues, the operating expense growth. So can you just tell me what's involved for the disposal expense? What's involved with that? So the disposal cost to the system, the city collects all of the trash and delivers it to the Pinellas County Waste Energy Facility for disposal. Pinellas County is needing to raise its fees to the city approximately 8% per year for the next several years, which is higher than inflation. One of the key reasons why that's necessary is because Pinellas County's Waste Energy Facility had entered into a power purchase agreement with Duke Energy. That agreement ended in, you know, last fiscal year. That represented about over 50% of the revenue stream to the county's solid waste facility, meaning that without that revenue stream continuing, it was going to have to replace that with increases to its user fees. And therefore, it's raising those rates over time to make up for the loss in revenue. So the disposal system costs are primarily associated with the disposal of trash or what's known in the industry as municipal solid waste or MSW. And it's being taken to the county facility and the county's facilities costs to the city are increasing at approximately 8% per year. Okay, that's, yeah, so because that is your, that is the highest increase in operating expense. On the labor, and I don't know if you have the comparison for that, but if you take a look at the labor cost, how, do we have some sort of comparison of the labor cost against what the market is? HR actually provides that for us, and during this period, those FY24, 25, we actually implemented to be competitive a career ladder structure so that the compensation for the skills would be increased that individual drivers, and we also had the base pay for people who are coming in with skills. HR approved bringing them in at a higher rate so we could be competitive. We were struggling quite a bit before that to actually keep people and to recruit them and have them come on board. So they are, we are in constant communication about that, and a bill is very tied to the market and what other things are happening out there, including the other cities' rates, so that we can stay abreast and then be aware what do we need to do. So would you say our rates are competitive, below market, above market? Currently, they're competitive. We have a step program within our pay structure for different layers of drivers. If you get a driver who is at entry level and he's that driver who has CDL maybe a couple of years, a year, but it's more driving than it is operating a truck, as opposed to an operator who becomes a 2 or a 3. If we bring them into those, we have leeway to be able to hire more for a more skillful driver, so we're competitive in that range. It's just identifying the candidate, cooperating the skill of driving they have, so we can be competitive there. It's a tough county to attract drivers in this industry, 24 municipalities, a dozen of us are private or municipal haulers. The others have private contracts, so there's a lot of players in our county who are vying for those drivers. Are there specific certifications for some of these labor categories? We do, we have, again, the structure that we put in place actually outlines the level of skill, and we do have a relationship with American Public Works Association and SWANA for standards. There are certifications in APWA that we're pursuing now, but, again, we're weighing out the cost of those. We're really concerned about getting the skill, and then the certification will, you know, follow and come after that. But one of the recommendations from the efficiency study was to require all of the staff at Solid Waste to come up to that level 3 skill level, because as we reduce number of people, and, you know, in an effort to have these efficiencies and savings, that we have to have more skills. We have to have everybody who has these multiple pieces of equipment that they can operate so that we have versatility. And so that is something that has been put in place. I think there's only two maintenance or sanitation associate ones left. And so we are working on that, and they do have a little time to catch up. And, you know, we provide that training and support so that they can get that level of skill and produce it. So it sounds like the labor market for this area is probably one of the most competitive. Absolutely. Final question on do we have any other alternatives? And I think this question is probably more rhetorical, but I think for the benefit of the public, we really don't. Well, no, I'll ask the question. So do we have any alternatives to where we dispose of the waste other than waste energy? Go ahead. We do when it comes to residential service. I'll pick on that. On commercial, not so much. Commercial, we have a – it's an agreement with the county to take our MSW or Class 1 trash there to feed the burn plant. And that is in place for a Class 1. When we get it – when we collect the yard waste and the stuff outside the barrel, the debris outside the barrel, we take it to an aggregate recycling station, and that is Class 3. And it's a little bit less, but that's – we do separate the debris for that matter to take those debris – that debris type to a different alternative place than the county. Okay. So just 8% per year, that seems like a lot. Is that – I mean, is that a lot? I would like to add that it's relevant to say that the tipping fee that the county charges is one of the lowest tipping fees in the state, precisely because it had been – I don't want to use the word subsidized, but it had that revenue stream from the Duke power for so long that it allowed it to keep very attractive in low rates, rates that would be comparable to what a landfill would typically charge, which is a much lower cost of operation than a waste energy facility. But even with the 8% increase in the near term, it's still a very low cost of service, relatively speaking. So, yes, it's unfortunate that it has to now go up 8% per year, but your alternatives, when you consider the long-haul expense of having to go farther out to another facility and what the other regional landfills may be charging – for example, if you were to look at Hillsborough County's landfill disposal fee for their waste energy facility, it's, you know, over $100 a ton, I believe, as opposed to the $65 or so that Pinellas charges. And we have to transport it. And we have to transport it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I kind of figured that too. Those are all the questions I have. Thank you. Commissioner Sandberg. Terry, between 2020 and 2026, we didn't see any type of increase, like we're asking the people, 20 some odd percent. Just approximately between 2020 and 2026, how much did rates go up? They went up approximately 4% per year as recommended by the 2020 study. Okay. And I guess I keep coming back to – one thing I wanted to talk about, in the ordinance it still talks about unincorporated county. Yes. Did you see that? Yeah, there is a section there. If the commission decided that they would provide that service, it allows – one of the changes was to come in aligned with the other utilities. We have our utilities and the surcharge that they have for services of 25% additional. We did the calculation. If we kept that service, we still did not have enough to recover the funds by keeping the county unincorporated area. There's been a couple things – when we did all this study, we had to, based on facts they made and models, some assumptions about what the disposal savings would be. We had real numbers for revenue and then estimated numbers because we didn't break it out that way for what was unincorporated disposal cost and transportation. But since then, we've been tracking – and we actually have greater savings than we anticipated from those two items we're going to look at more. Obviously, we've been tracking more. But we're – you know, the result is we estimated how much – how many tons was coming from unincorporated versus city. And the reality is it's more tons than what we thought. So we're avoiding those costs now. And it was greater transportation cost and just trips to go to the landfill. So just those two savings alone, we're going to talk – and you'll see that in March 3rd. That is additional savings. We estimated it conservatively. And that is what is in this rate study. But again, you will have, as a commission, a choice as to how you deal with rates. This is the structure set up, the way that things are now, anticipating some of these savings – continued savings, recurring savings from eliminating the unincorporated service delivery. And if you were to decide to go back, then we would be able to tell you, what do we have to change? Because we eliminated two positions and six pieces of equipment. And we've identified some more pieces of equipment that will go. Some are related to that unincorporated change, the change to just the city residents. Are we still picking up in unincorporated Dunedin? No. At your direction, we withdrew from that unincorporated. As of October 1st, we were completely out of that business. Okay. You know, are recyclable products similar to a commodity? Do rates fluctuate? Today aluminum is worth this. Tomorrow it's worth that. Do we take it into consideration, and how do we get the most that we can for our recycled products? I'm going to love this answer. Go ahead, Bill. We didn't practice on that one. I'll be brief. You're right. It is. Our recycling, it's a mixed program. We, in this area, it's all mixed, single stream recycling. And it's a blended commodity, and the sorting process is very costly to get those products, to separate them. So we have a value of our recyclables, which is on, which is, it's pretty good right now, but it fluctuates. And what we do is we try and get it as clean as possible. We do a lot with our social media to encourage to recycle right, to bring down our contamination, to make it a better recyclable, a better commodity, because people are misusing the blue barrel, and not by any intent, but possibly just by not understanding what can go in and out of the, what should be going into the blue can and what should be going into the trash can. So really, the answer is we're trying to do that through our outreach and education component to get a healthier, a less contaminant product, if you will. Right. And so the way that Bill has structured that contract with our recyclable vendor, which happens to be in the back of the room as well, that there's a return, what do you call it, a proceed? We have, with the way our cost structure is with our recycling contract, there is a collection component that it's fixed. It's fixed because those are the waste pro trucks following the same patterns I do. Right. Right. And then it's the processing side of it. The processing side is based on that blended average quarterly, each month I get an average market value of our blended recyclables, and then it becomes a quarter value of it, and what we do is we either pay or net zero or we get some proceeds based on the market value of that, of our recyclables. That's where it's volatile based on the market. Some years we were net zero, two or three years ago we got a little bit of proceeds. Right now, we're paying $15 a ton for the processing, which is very, very good on our side. I have never seen a contract structured like this. When I first saw it, I was very impressed because it gives the city every opportunity to recoup dollars and recycle. My last question, and you tell me how, because I'm sure, I know I get contacted and I'm sure my colleagues do, we're going to ask people to pay 28% more for their solid, I don't want to say their trash bill, but their solid waste portion. In my specific community, there are people that live alone or there are two people. They probably have three items in that recycle bin. What can we do to maybe reduce heavy users versus, you know, other than holidays, our recycle bin is never full. In the times that it's really over full, I break them down and take them to Lake Haven. Do you have any suggestions what we could do for that single person that, you know, that, you know, just a couple that don't have a lot of recycle, a lot of Amazon boxes? Any suggestions that we could pass on? Our rates are based on the city as a whole. Okay. And we have, when you're a curbside customer receiving the three layers of service, they're all paying a minimum of that. And the best thing you can do is those heavy users, those bigger households, if they need that second barrel, they're getting a second barrel at a 50% discount of another fee for that second barrel. It is really, you know, the minimum charge for those three services to be provided each week, which is, across the board, a premium service for our city. Oh, I know. It's because it includes yard waste and bulk. My last question would be, if someone, and I don't want to open this up for a whole night, but if someone said I would like to discontinue my recycling, can they opt out of it? No, it's part of the program. It's a staple of our program. Okay. That's all I had, Mayor. Okay. Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. Please refresh my memory on the percentage increase that the county, it was 8%. When does that start? That's, previously, it was 6% per year and they had to increase at 8% per year based upon new information as it pertained to other cost effects to them, including the recent new contract that they entered into for the operation of their facility with FCC environmental. They just entered into that agreement. So, that 8% per year is over the next three years, I believe. And subsequent to the three-year period, they have a forecast of what the increases are, and they're expecting those increases to generally maintain in that range of vicinity until sometime in mid 2030s, once they get back to the point where they've replaced the lost revenue from the Duke Power Purchase Agreement. Okay. And so, that 8% increases sometime in 26. Is that what I'm hearing? It's going to be going on for 27, 28, 29, and then I think that they will reevaluate, the county will reevaluate what the rate needs need to be, but the forecasts show a continuation in that trend. Okay. Okay. So, it's going to start in 27. And you said prior to the 8%, it was 6%. Yes. Do you know approximately how long it was 6%? I could get back to you on the specific timing of when that started. Bill has it. Roughly 2020, 2021. Bill has it. Terry's firm is the consultant for the Solid Waste Department of Pinellas County. But how they set their rates is, and it's part of our TMC group that the professionals in our industry do have an opportunity to weigh in on the county. And each year, we see Terry through the county to establish what their rates are. And they do them in that three-year periods. Okay. So, right now, the county has adopted an ordinance, which we as a group supported, that it was at 8%. We are 8% on our tipping fee, which applied last year, this year, and the next year. So, it's going to go through fiscal year 28. We're going to get at 8%. To give a little content to this, a background, the rate, the tipping fee in the county, and to Terry's point that the county had a very good power purchase agreement with Duke Power, their tipping fee over, since fiscal year 2019, was $37.50. That was a rate, from that year 2019, that was a rate established and held to that amount since the 80s. So, there were many, many years where our rate was very low, suppressed, and because of the Duke Power Purchase Agreement that they were under. So, the three-year rate that they adopted at that time, from fiscal year 20, 21, and 22, was 6%. The next three years, it went from 6% to 6.8%. And then we're, just last fiscal year, 2026, we're now in our second year of a three-year window of 8%. And through Terry's point, we're seeing through their modeling that 8% is going to most likely continue on after next fiscal year. Okay. And what have our, historically, what have our rate increases been? Since 2020, 4% per year. 4%. Mm-hmm. And there's been 6%. And do we know what it was before 4%? We had... I'm not asking for a history lesson. I'm not, you know. When we adopted a new rate resolution, we, it was a change from them to make an amendment to increase it from 2% to 4%. So, that brought it to your, to last fiscal year, 2025, to, I mean, to 5%, not 4%, 5%. Okay. So, we went from 2% to 5%. And even with it, the 5% annual indexing, inflation outpaced it. Right. And put too much pressure on our rate. Mm-hmm. And so, where my head is, is right, that we've been charged by the county 6% for a number of years. Wow. And I was going 8%. Mm-hmm. And we were increasing at that same period of time. We were at 2%. We went to 5%, 6%. Now we're... And so, within that timeframe, they were, we were, how was that difference being paid? That was out of our reserves? Well, first of all, that's only a portion of the expense, excuse me, expenses, disposal. So, there are other factors. And so, it is, yeah, out of the general fund. I mean, not general fund, I'm so sorry, solid waste fund. It's the enterprise fund. And that is why that red that you saw across there is the forecast for that fund. It just continues to deplete. Right. But with the rate, that's, that's a stabilization increase recommended to get back to the 25% reserve. Okay. Okay. And, and thank you for that. And right before this job, I worked for the city of Clearwater in their solid waste recycling, did accounting for them. And that was right, it was 2018. And so, the conversation at that point was, oh my God, what is the county doing with, with, with their rates? And so, um, uh, okay. I don't want to get into comments. So, I'm, I'm done. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Commissioner DeGuard questions. It wouldn't be any fun if you didn't get into comments at the wrong time. Um, I'm, I'm going to approach this from a different perspective because I'm looking for stability in a market that doesn't appear to be. Um, it appears as though we've had a few surprises inside the last five year period when we were making projections on, uh, what we thought this service was going to cost us. I see the, so I'm trying to explain to myself, okay, what happened, where were the variables, where did they go up? Uh, it was very helpful to hear that we had planned on a 4% increase and you actually, actually implemented a five. Is that what I just heard? We initially had, uh, an ordinance in place in 20, in fiscal year 20, 27 at 2%. 20, 20. And yeah, yeah. Sorry. 2017. 2017. In 2020, we increased it from there knowing that we needed more because of inflation. We rose, we, the, we recommended it was supported to go from 2% to 5%. So, since 2020, we've been going up 5% per year according to plan. Is that correct? Correct. Is that correct? I just wanted to be sure. It's 4%. I thought you verified the last three years. At 4%, I'm butchering that. He's looking. I had 5% with the, never mind. He's going to the data. I think it may be 4%, but I'm going to confirm. I need a minute. Okay. We'll confirm that. I'll, I'll, I'll fill the time with an additional question. Um, I'm looking at the financials and I understand that there are composite of a number of items in each one of the line items. And I, I'm, I'm aware of that, but I'm looking at our, uh, capital budget and it doesn't appear that in 22 or 23, we had any capital expenditures except a 339 and 22. Hmm. And then suddenly here in 24, we have a, just a lot of capital expenses and they're continuing on out from there. Can somebody explain what went on there? So I, I think I mentioned this when we had our fleet, um, presentation and a replacement is, um, for quite some time there has been, um, a deferring of asset replacements. Yep. And, um, solid waste wanted to make sure they could deliver services and, um, assets were kept well beyond their life expectancy. Um, and the maintenance costs increased. We didn't have capital expense, but eventually that comes to an end, right? There's, um, you have depleted, you know, the use of those vehicles and those pieces of equipment. They're heavy duty and, um, and so, um, again, to make sure that they could provide service. They were, you know, dealing with older, um, pieces of equipment and it just got to a point and they have to be replaced. So now, um, as we, we mentioned, you know, we don't, if we replace those timely, also we don't get any surplus money for that. Salvage value once it's, you know, 20 years old is nothing. Um, so now the way that this plan has been redone is that the assets are replaced timely and the reserves are according to industry standard versus, um, 100%. Which again, I, I want to just say that the whole goal was to have service delivery. If something breaks down, you got to have another truck, um, and to, you know, replace the asset when it's supposed to be replaced. We will still evaluate the condition of that asset and if the life is there and the maintenance costs are low, we can continue to extend the life and not replace something. But we have, um, some grants coming up where we got two grants and it's given us the opportunity to actually get a little jump on that and have the couple assets replaced. But you have to show it in our budget first, right? You have to have it in there. Then, uh, the expense won't be there because we have a grant, but we have to have it in, in the, in the bank. This is where less comes in. And, um, showing in our budget in order to acquire that piece of equipment and get the loan. And, um, and then we buy it and then we get money back. So, uh, that's two, that's unexpected, not included in this scenario, but it will help us overall offset some of those, um, uh, costs that have been increasing. So, we, we had to reset really on that, um, we, on the vehicle replacement or the equipment replacement. And you guys, we, we talked a little bit about this at fleet. Some of those assets were just ancient and they're just, and they also need to be serviced. So, we're, this is really impacted, um, same savings at fleet by getting rid of these assets. We got rid of six. I think there's at least three more and, uh, maybe more, uh, that we will also look at. And we're not just looking at solid waste. We're looking throughout public works with our efficiency, but it will have a direct impact. We have to make the capital investment to make it work. We have to make it to, so that we can have a reliable, useful piece of equipment that they can rely on and that we can get rid of those extra spares, as they call them. Now we have just enough reserves. Okay. Thank you for that. Uh, I, I think it's really important that as we make these inquiries that we recognize that we are a very reasonable service against our peers. I mean, that's just apparent in the numbers. But it is also our job up here to make sure we're squeezing every penny out of it we can get. Mm-hmm. And, uh, walk me through asset management a little bit. By the way, it looks like, uh, our capital investment is running at about 40% of our total budget. Somewhere in that plus or minus three or four, uh, depending on the year. So that makes our capital investments awfully critical and the life of those capital investments. So let's say we're acquiring a new truck and it looks like we're acquiring some new trucks here. Um, so we make that purchase. We also have debt service that appears on the budget simultaneously with that acquisition. That feels a little like I'm paying for the same thing twice. Help me understand that I'm not. There's less. If I may. Terry. Terry. Yes. Terry. He's prepared. So the, so the, um, you know, I, I think I mentioned at the, at the background that what happens when you don't adjust rates to keep pace with the cost service. And I just want to remind everyone that really the outpacing occurred over the last two years, um, was the most, it happened just recently. You can see here from the chart. It really happened in 2024 and 2025 where we had this big gap that happened. Um, but when that starts to happen, you defer things like you defer capital asset replacement. And then those, those costs don't go away. They just get pushed into future years is what happens. So if, if, if we decided not to take action typically, and I, and I consult to a lot of municipalities all across the, you know, us and in Florida as well. Um, that's, that's typically what we see happen. So getting back to the question around ensuring that, you know, um, explaining how it, how we do the funding for the capital needs of the system and the asset management of the vehicles. Cause you're correct. Cause you're correct. The, the, the, the capital needs of the system, a primary element is, is the trucks and the vehicles. And as Sue pointed out, we had a backlog, if you will, of needing to replace those. So the financial plan assumes about two and a half vehicles on average are getting replaced per year. That's. Say that again for me. Repeat that. Two and a half vehicles on average per year in this forecast are getting replaced is the assumption that we made. And we weren't doing that in the prior years. Is that correct? I didn't specifically study the historical replacement rates. I just know that we had a backlog. Some years in 22 and 23 where it looks like there was only, there was miniscule. That's correct. That's correct. You are seeing that correctly. Okay. Then we're not done. All right. And I guess what I would say is that the financial plan that we have assumes that we're going to be, um, lease funding. It's a better way to say it to a lay person might be that we would debt fund the vehicles. Uh, and the debt funding happens over a five year period, similar to how most people might finance their personal vehicles over a five year period. Although now we're seeing those, those terms get extended as the vehicle prices go up, as we all know, and dread. Um, but as it relates to the financial plan, we had assumed a five year, um, repayment term for each of these vehicles and we debt funded all of them. The idea was to strike a balance between, you know, the rate impacts that we, that we were recognizing in the financial plan. Because if we were to fund them without the, the use of debt, then we would have to raise the rates even higher in the near term to produce the revenues to cover the funding for those vehicle replacements. So that, that's the asset replacement cycle assumption. And to finally answer your question, um, the proceeds from those loans are what's funding the capital, not the use of any existing cash balances that we have. And so that's why it is not a double count. Okay. As we, we take an asset that is, in our opinion, completed its useful life and it goes to fleet and fleet is then responsible for its sale. Is that what happens next? Right. Okay. And then how does that money come back into this budget? Cause I couldn't see any place for that. Right. It won't, it's not, uh, it, that surplus is not in the budget. It's in, um, I mean, and when it comes in, it's a proceed. It's not a revenue. Um, it's not a revenue and it's not a negative expenditure. Correct. It doesn't look like it comes back. It's, it's comes back in actuals. It gets deposited. I see the deposit. They put it in the fund, but we don't budget. The city does not budget to that. We don't know how much the salvage is going to be until it goes. Okay. It's, it's generally a, a small overall amount of revenue. Um, particularly because right now we have older vehicles and the older they are, the less residual value that they have. Yep. So in the near term the residual value is not going to be as good as in future years once we get back onto a more current replacement cycle and we can replace them at a younger age. I'm right there with you wanting to blend this so we have a more predictable future. So we've got some challenges there. Okay. Um, having what you might call pop up revenues a little uncomfortable, but I get it. Um, cause you don't know what you're going to get for it. Um, this implies something to me and I don't want to, um, follow the trap of my colleagues and start getting into comments. So I'm going to try to form this into a question. Um, how do we go about extending the useful life of this equipment? Well, we take care of it. I mean, that's the biggest thing is to make sure that it's clean, it's washed. Um, we do have an excellent, um, a PM program with fleet. Um, and, and that's, I mean, really hiring qualified drivers that, you know, will operate the equipment correctly, making sure they do their daily checks. We're doing that. That's how we extend the life. If I could just add to that, when you get the newer vehicles, uh, they generally have warranties. And so Sue's point about the preventative maintenance being an important factor is critical for you to realize those warranties. So when those vehicles tend to fail or have issues, uh, because you've been doing that proper maintenance, as Sue pointed out, then you have recourse through the warranty mechanisms. Okay. That's real helpful. Um, when I'm looking at this non, uh, reoccurring operating, it seems to be appearing only for a three year period. Help me better understand what that is again. You may be answering the question twice. I apologize if that's the case. No, Terry, I think this, uh, which slide is it? Yeah. I believe that, um, if we go to this slide, it's very small font, but you're referring back to a line item called non recurring operating expenses in the middle of the page, about third light down from the, um, all capital expenses. And it's about $110,000. Um, I was asking, um, our analyst and I think less may know the answer to that. I didn't have the answer, um, for the $110,000, uh, for you at this moment, but, um, we can circle back and make sure we have an answer on what that was for. Yeah. We need that for March. Yeah. We'll definitely give that. Uh, we, we actually had a lot of discussion about that when we were doing the study of what is that non recurring. So I probably even have it in my notes, but we will get it to you. Just Mary, if I may, there, there, there might've been, it might've been related to some software too. Um, I don't know. City manager. Go ahead. So just, just for the commission's knowledge and those that may be watching, Les is our director of finance. Unfortunately, he is home ill tonight. Oh, thank you. We're going to fever and you know, as you know, he has a big role tomorrow. So yeah, he does. Financial planning retreat. Yes. Thank you for that. All right. Um, I think that gets to the heart of, um, most of my questions. Um, I guess I'm, I'm talking to our consultants, Terry. Um, I would really look for some strong, um, thoughts from you on how we can better blend and keep our costs more anticipated. Cause this is a little bit of a surprise in a territory where we've had a lot of surprises in the last year. Uh, you were here for some of those too. Um, so we're going to be asking staff and if anybody has any thoughts on this, on how we can keep these costs, at least much more predictable surprises are just no fun. Thank you, Mary. That's all I've got. So I'm sure nobody would be disappointed if I said I can't think of any other questions that haven't been asked. Oh my gosh. No, we're not doing the second round. Absolutely not. Um, all right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. This actually should be pretty easy. You know, so I looked at the difference, um, disposal and labor, you know, year over year from 22 up to 24, it was pretty consistent. But 24 to 25 basically increased labor was a 200 and some odd thousand increase and disposal was a $300,000 increase. Um, can you tell me what happened there? I was going to say we had a hurricane. Yeah. We had a little more disposal costs. Okay. Uh huh. And we also had to work longer and harder and more hours. And that's probably the simplest explanation. You know what? I'm going to accept that. Thank you so much. Okay. I'm going to open it up for public input. Does anyone in the audience wish to, oh, I'm sorry. I just wanted to, I just wanted to draw your attention to something very quickly, which is in the packet, there is the ordinance also in front of you, just so you're aware, is the ordinance in the strike through and underline. It's the same. Um, but I did want to bring that up. The only difference is, is that, um, at the bottom it says without exhibits and there's a typo correction in section four and clarification. Other than that, it's the same as what's been published. But just so you know why it's in front of you. Yes. Don't put it, don't, don't make us have to do this all again if we miss something like that. So I appreciate that. Um, yeah, we don't want to start over. Um, anyway, I'd like to open it to public input if anyone would like to come forward to speak on this. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Hi. Um, before we start my time, I'd like to give a shout out to the comms ladies. More comm, strategic advisor. So, you know, keep a sister in mind. And you're about to find out where I live and whether I'm any good at what I do. Uh, so I'm having a hard time with this. I appreciate all of this. I understand. Oh, sorry. Name and address. I guess I'm not good at what I do. Um, my name is Lori Pirelli and I live at 2293 Edith Drive. Um, so I'm having a hard time with this. And my notes were pulled together quite quickly. I was on a conference call and the email popped up. And I saw this and I saw almost $7 a month rate increase. I wasn't happy. And then I kept reading and I saw that, and I was happy to see your chart showing additional cities because the cities that were listed that were comparable were Clearwater, which is 115,000 residents, the three times bigger. St. Pete, 225, seven times bigger. Tampa, which is a different county, 400,000 residents, 11 times bigger. The only comp that was provided in the email, happy to see that it was more in the chart. But the only comp that was somewhat realistic is Safety Harbor and that's with 20,000. So, using Tampa as the most significant disparity, again, 11 times bigger, our per capita delivery cost, assuming, assuming fixed operating expenses, is more than double Tampa, 112%. Tampa's true cost is $112.50 per resident. Dunedin true cost is $238.89. And so, I have to respectfully disagree that our rates are lower compared to the neighboring communities that were referenced in the email. So, I have a few asks. Let's do some more realistic comparisons. Let's not use cities that are 11 times bigger. Eastlake, and I think that was on there. Tarpon, Seminole. Let's figure out how to negotiate some additional services at no additional cost to residents. Ideally, and I think most people here would agree with me, go back to two times during the summer at least. And look, I understand costs. I understand it. But when is enough enough? It's got to stop somewhere. I'm the person that would happily opt out. I'm the single person that would happily opt out of recycling. And just because we've never done creative solutions in the past doesn't mean we can't do them in the future. And you guys have got to start thinking differently because it's enough. It's too much. And look, I am a fan of all of our activities that bring revenue to our city. But maybe we can look at one less event, maybe one, to benefit those of us who live here and who have to pay the cost for it. And because I'm not just a person who will stand up and complain or whatever, I am happy to volunteer to help. And I understand there's processes. I understand all of it. But I am happy to volunteer to help you guys come up with some creative services, creative ways. Because just because you haven't done it in the past doesn't mean you can't do it in the future. Right on time. Thank you. Thank you very much. Does anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Jason. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Jason Seibert, 1756 Ranchwood Drive South. I just had a couple questions. You know, I lived in Miami before I lived here. It was a long time ago. I was in middle school and stuff. But what we did there is we separated our recycling at home. I know we have a large cost to separate recycling. I'm sure that there are logistical issues that would have to be worked through. But I wonder if there's a way to retain more money by separating our recycling with two bins at home. It was pretty easy, paper in one, other stuff in the other, trash in this bin. And I wonder, as we're replacing equipment, if we can keep that in mind. Because I think there may be cost savings there. I wanted to speak to your point about events. Because I own one of the events. I do pay for all the trash at the event. Address the commission though, Jason. Oh, excuse me. Address the commission. Excuse me. Pay for all the trash at the events. I know city events are paid for by the city. But I did want to make that clarification. And then professional services. What does that mean, recycle temp labor under professional services? So I'll take your questions and we'll answer them when everybody's spoken. Okay, cool. And last comment because I have cubic yard commercial bins. I wanted to see if we could kind of touch on that for a second if we could because I saw there was an increase in that. I want to know what that's based on. Is that based on cubic yard? I saw a two cubic yard dumpster one day a week. And we have several days a week that we're depending on what time of the year that we're dumping our dumpster. So is that times as many days a week as we're dumping the $101 and whatever. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this item? Okay. Did you guys gather all of Jason's comments? Are you able to answer? I think one was about separating things and if that would actually help save money. First, I guess I should close public input and now we'll answer those questions. Yeah, we can look at that. I know that Bill's looked at it in the past, but we have actually a person who, Savannah, was doing that job and we have Laura doing that, looking at ways we can do recycling better. And so we'll go ahead. Go ahead. We used to have a curb sort program where we had the truck out there and we would separate it right at the street and then send it to the recycling plant, which was City of Clearwater at the time. But there are no more plants that accept nearby for dual stream. Say you want to separate your fiber from your containers, plastic glass. In this area there's not. And that's a cost to do that and to transport it to the nearest place that does offer that. There's places on the east coast that do have that over on the east coast of some of the counties. Unfortunately, we don't have that nearby. Some of the technology they use now versus in the past actually does the separation, but it also, I mean that's what, it's single stream. I have to be clear though. You can separate cardboard out and it can go to a, and it can fetch a higher value where cardboard is that product that doesn't bode well for a rolling cart. You can bring your cardboard to a drop off site that has a clean cardboard container. We're a mixed recycling program even at our two drop off sites in town. Okay. And then there was a question about the recycle temp service. So we do employ temporary employees to work the physical part of the back of the truck. It was also identified in the efficiencies as savings so that we're not using that physical risk to our own employees and not skilled drivers on the back of the truck. So we do use that to supplement our services and that's what that is. And it just happens to be the way that it falls in the professional services consultant. I mean, you know, contract services. It's the line item that is designated for professional services is the contract. And then the rates for commercial are based on the same percentage. Really, that's why the rate table is there. So it has been really applied across the board to all of the different rates so that it's, you know, the same ratio for the increase. Okay. Did that help, Jason? Okay. Thank you. Okay. So one other question. We have Commissioner Degard who would like to ask one more question. Thank you, Mayor. The question I failed to ask is how does this compare our rates with our 15,000 customers compare with the rates of for-profit providers? We don't see them on here. And I wanted to get that piece just to understand. Well, I would just add that when we're looking at the comparison, sometimes you are looking at for-profit. And the reason being is that those other municipalities don't always self-provide the service. They contract out collection of the service, just like the city here does with recycling service, if you think about it. So the city here contracted out collection of the recycling and disposal of the recycling, but its MSW and trash is provided in-house by city staff. So when you're looking at this comparison, we could go back and look at the notes and report back to the commission and members of the public around the breakdown of it. But if you were to look at that comparison, you're going to see a mix of both city and private providers baked in there. One last thing. Does scale tend to reduce unit costs or does it increase unit costs? That's an excellent question. You know, when I do these types of studies for not just solid waste, but also for very capital intensive enterprise operations for municipalities, water and sewer utilities. Water and sewer utilities require immense amounts of capital investment because these assets live over 30 years. When we compare that to solid waste, it's a much lower capital investment because the cost is tied to a vehicle. And that vehicle serves about, you know, roughly 800 to 1200 households, roughly, if you're doing an automated curbside collection type service. Obviously, if you have different styles of service, those numbers can vary. But my point here is that generally the cost of service scales more closely on a solid waste operation so that you don't have these huge differentials in economies of scale as you might infer. Like what you would have with the water and sewer operation where the capital investment has to be made in large scale operations. The other point I'd make is that where you would have those economies of scales would be for the disposal facility, but the city doesn't own any disposal facilities. It actually brings that to the county, which is, you know, one of the largest waste energy facilities in the state. So, you know, I can appreciate the comment earlier, but that's a more direct answer to your question. Okay. All right. We good? I mean, anybody else? Seriously? Okay. Okay. We're going to go to commission comments, and I guess I'll start over here with Commissioner Gao. Thank you. Actually, I'm sorry. I'm going to take it back because I think we had to make other motions, so I'm going to start with Commissioner Sandberg. And nothing more to add. We've discussed that for a long time. I'm good. Okay. And Vice Mayor, final comments? Thank you, Mayor. I, you know, so I think we've dissected this pretty well. You look at the two big drivers in terms of the operating expense change and, you know, labor, we need to be competitive. And I'm going to suspect that a large part of that increase is probably due to benefits. And then the disposal part, you know, it's the necessary, it's a trade study because we either stay with the, you know, we don't have a whole lot of options outside of Pinellas. And so I, quite frankly, I've looked, I don't know where you carve anymore, but I will say that I greatly appreciate the staff and your efforts to carve out some of those expenses and find efficiencies. You know, that's a big help. But anyway, nothing further to add. I'm in favor of the increase. Okay. Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, it just seems to me that, to echo a lot of Vice Mayor's comments. Yeah, this, for a period of time, we haven't been increasing at the same rate the county has. You take into consideration the inflation that we've all felt at home and here over the last couple of years. The right sizing of the labor force with pay increases and making sure we're paying market wages. It just kind of culminated in a very difficult time for all of us. And so that's, I can't speak for the entire commission, but this is not a comfortable situation to be in. But we've done some right sizing, we've done some efficiencies, we'll continue to do those efficiencies. Just, do we have, and I'm sorry, in March, if you could let us know, kind of make a comment out of this. What's a mechanism to make sure, especially when we start indexing, that we are staying right sized? Want to make sure that, you know, if we're going to do this, that all of a sudden we don't get a surprise. Oh, you know, sorry residents. Thank you. That's all I have, Mayor. Commissioner Ducard. There's an old saying, those people that live by crystal balls oftentimes have to eat ground glass. We're eating ground glass today. I guess I'm looking for solutions that will help us avoid these kinds of surprises. We've had a trial by fire for this commission in the last year. We've had one after another of our enterprise funds come with more than double digit increases. And that's disquieting at best. And we wonder, as we sit here, what is our role and responsibility when it feels like we're riding on a horse and don't have a bridle? It's just taken us where it wants us to go. And I understand that we have variables going on that we have very little control over. If the county decides it's going to do things differently, we're stuck with that decision. We don't really have much ability to influence that. But I'm leaning on staff here a little bit to come back with a plan. Maybe we don't project five years. Maybe we do something different. Five years is a long time and there's a lot of variables that can happen in a five-year period. Three feels a little more comfortable. Secondly, if we do stick with five years, I want an alarm bell to go off a little earlier than, oh, we got new rates and we have to catch up. So those are my comments on this. There's no way I'm not going to vote for this because, by the way, those guys that pick up my garbage, I'm very proud of. They do a good job and they won't pick it up if I don't. No, they would pick it up. But I think they do a wonderful job. I've seen their work. I've seen their esprit de corps. They're good people. And they work hard. So I'm proud of the team. I want some better warnings. That's what I want. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, my comments, first of all, I know 28% always sounds worse than $6.75 a month added on to $23.67. I know that we looked at labor, inflation, the disposal cost of Pinellas County, cost of recycling. All those things drove this cost. And it looks like it did it in the last two years. So it was kind of, you know, difficult. I had the same concerns. I talked to the city manager because, as I was reading the item, I was just getting aggravated, even though we'd already looked at it in the workshop. Just because we've had to deal with water. And we had to deal with wastewater. And we had to deal with stormwater. And it's like, you know, you're reclaimed. And you're trying to do the right thing for the residents. And reclaimed stands out as one that we could have jumped all over sooner. And, but again, so when you talk about Commissioner Dugard, the, I think, I think staff is already looking at the three year look ahead versus five. So we're better able to catch this quickly. So it's not all kind of hitting everybody at once. And the other thing is to kind of stagger it. So the same year or within the same year or two, it's not boom, boom, boom, boom. They're all going up that kind there. We catch them at different times. So it doesn't seem so, such a shock to the system. You know, that being said, you know, labor, inflation, disposal costs. I mean, all those are things that are not strangers to this anywhere in this country, even internationally and of what we're dealing with right now. And so we are victims of those ourselves. And we, we do, I, I, we have to me, one of the best solid waste departments in the nation. I mean, those, as people tell me all the time, they'll pick up anything. They're, and it's, it's just good. And I mean, and I think that, uh, what I can see, we are very competitive and we do need to pay our people well because they are great and they care. Uh, and you can tell they care. And I just saw one of our, uh, retirement, uh, one of our, uh, guys retired who went through Fairway and the whole neighbor came out, neighborhood came out with signs wishing him well and he had pictures with kids and, and that's the special touch that Dunedin gives. And, um, and, but, but they, we have to, we have to treat them right Israel competitively. And also just remind everybody that our board of finance made up of, um, how many, how many members are on board of finance? Nine, 10, 10, all citizen advisory. You don't get paid a dime. They're just there to, you know, just to, uh, really look hard at all this stuff. And they, they looked at it a couple of times and they solidly said, you know, this, we have to do this. So, um, on that note, um, obviously I'm in favor of it. Not that I like it, but, um, it's a good service. This is competitive and it's something we're going to have to do. So, um, roll call vote. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Gow. Aye. Vice Mayor Walker. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. The second reading will be, is scheduled for March 19th commission meeting. So thank you for anybody who came for that. And thanks staff. Thank you. And Terry, I did notice you were being a little protective of the county. So it made sense when I heard you were doing some stuff for them. Um, okay. We have three B first hearing, uh, of the main street exchange, and we are going to take a quick break and then we'll go into that. Thank you. Oh yeah. No, we have to have a break. We're going to get started again. We're going to move to three B. First hearing of application D.R. 20-25-002-0002. Request for design review approval for the development of a new project called Main Street Exchange. Consisting of a three- and four-story mixed-use building comprising an 89-room boutique hotel, marketplace, theater, food hall, restaurants, social establishments, retail spaces, and a parking garage on a 1.78-acre parcel located at 830 Douglas Avenue. Uh, start out by also saying this is a quasi-judicial hearing. Uh, so we will open public hearing and I'll ask the city clerk to swear in all who wish to provide testimony on the design review application to be heard. So anybody who's going to be speaking. Okay. And I'll ask everyone up here. Does anyone have any ex parte communications to disclose for the record? Okay. All right. Seeing none, we will go to staff presentation, which is George and Bob. Thank you, Mayor, Vice Mayor. George Kinney on behalf of community development, um, with me, uh, to my right is my trusted and learned colleague, uh, Robert Ironsmith, who, uh, is joining us for this project because of its location in the downtown and in the CRA. Um, as the mayor indicated, uh, this is application D.R. 20-25-002 design review approval for a project known as Main Street Exchange. Uh, the owner is Bill Mazas. Uh, the applicant is Cricker, uh, Casarjian. I hope I got that right, Cricker. I'm sorry. I do that every time. Uh, representatives, uh, are Brian Onks. Uh, the street address, as the mayor mentioned, is 830 Douglas Avenue. It is a 1.78 acre site. I'll go over the land use and zoning designations in, in preceding slides here. Uh, and currently the site is occupied, uh, as the commission knows, uh, by a, uh, three-story vacant office building with associated parking. Uh, just very quickly, the slide to the left is the aerial photograph of the existing situation. And you can see that office building kind of tucked to the center, center slash rear of the property with parking surrounding, uh, uh, parking primarily on the front side, but also a little bit of parking off to the trail side as well. And just, uh, to orient anybody that might not know where the property is. Uh, it is, it does front main street and it is, uh, uh, the, the vertical road that runs to the right is, is Douglas. And then Monroe street runs to the rear of the property. Very quickly on the project description. Uh, again, this is called the main street exchange project consists of a three and four story mixed use building comprising an 89 room boutique hotel marketplace and food hall event space, restaurants, retail spaces, and onsite and offsite parking garages. Uh, again, characterize it in the lower left. You can see a Google street view of the existing property with that three story office building, which, uh, sits at about 40 feet in height, uh, and that parking field and that parking field contains, I think approximately 53 lots or 53 spaces. Uh, from a land use plan evaluation standpoint, the entire site is, uh, does have the designation of activity center for the land use plan. Um, the subject property, um, does permit with, with this underlying, uh, land use designation, the property permits 50 units to the acre for, for, uh, uh, uh, temporary lodging units. And you can see if you look at the table below how that plays out with respect to this particular property and the site size. So at 1.78 acres, that would permit 89, uh, transient units. And that, that is also what happens to be, uh, is what is being proposed for this particular property. There is no minimum maximum, uh, floor area ratio for this site. So what that does as the commission knows is that FAR then allows for additional non-residential development without any additional restriction to those, to those density dwelling units. Uh, the AC, the activity center land use category also permits an impervious surface ratio of up to 85%. Uh, and the applicant is actually coming in under that at around 82 and a half percent. From a zoning district standpoint, the subject property is located in downtown core. Uh, I have a, a slide that will follow this, that will show the street types of that downtown core. And with a little more explanation, but the property is entirely zoned downtown core. Uh, that there is a height request, uh, piece to this particular ask, uh, for the type C portion, which I'll, I'll move into in the next slide. Um, there is also a step back waiver request for portions of the structure. And I can tell you that, uh, the rationale for that, for that ask to the commission is, is located in exhibit I. Uh, and the, you know, the requests and they'll talk a little bit more about the requests and, and why they're asking for that, that, that waiver. Uh, but it's really to gain full architectural impact of the project. And you'll see that as they present their, their, uh, proposal. One interesting piece to this particular ask, uh, the land development code does require hotel rental units, have a minimum floor area and maximum floor area. And all 89 units in this particular case meet that special requirement. Uh, this is that next slide, which breaks down the street types of downtown core a little bit further. So as you can see that Northern portion, which is up against Monroe street is called a type C street. Uh, the, the portion up against main street is type a street. Nothing, nothing deviates with respect to the uses that are permitted in either category, but you can see by the breakdown in the boxes to the left and really try to, try to focus in on the building height piece of it. That's the key component. So for that type a portion of the street up against main street, the maximum height for this, for this, uh, project can be 36 feet. And that's what you'll see is, is the height that, that the proposal will obtain or is being requested for the type C streets, a little bit unique in that it's 36 feet by right, but it can go up to 46 feet with commission approval. And that will be part of the request that the applicant is making to you to move that, uh, to move that rear portion of the property, uh, to 46 feet. And they'll, they'll talk a little bit about in their architectural renderings, how they're going to move that fourth floor back in. So it really doesn't have a huge impact on the, on the street frontage from a compatibility standpoint. Uh, we did, uh, as our office normally does, we did a full compatibility evaluation. Uh, most of the surrounding properties, well, all of the surrounding properties are zoned downtown core. So that there's consistent zoning in and around the subject property. Uh, again, uh, the, the, the property is occupied by a three story, 40 foot high vacant office building. Um, primarily sitting on that type C portion of the lot in the rear. Mixed use development projects are encouraged by the activity center, uh, through our, uh, um, through our, uh, uh, master plan or land use plan. Uh, and mixed use development with a variety of permitted uses includes a boutique, hotel, marketplace, theater, food hall. All of those things that were mentioned in the description are all things that this type of zoning and land use support. Um, the, there is that the photo and the lower right hand side is part of that, uh, compatibility exhibit, which is, which you'll find in exhibits D and D one in your backup. Um, most of what surrounds the subject property is fairly consistent with what is being asked here. There are the ocean optics building, uh, for instance, as noted is at 40 feet. The artisan, which is just up the road from this property is at 46 feet. The grand street in and the 428 Virginia property are all at 36 feet. So you see some, some, some consistency throughout, uh, accordingly. Uh, the staff is pretty comfortable with the compatibility and the, and the impact that's being proposed by this particular ask. Uh, as the commission knows, there's a series of design standards that need to be met. As you work through this process, staff has reviewed this application against all of those applicable review criteria. This chart simply shows those criteria and then whether or not to the right hand side, whether it conforms or does not conform. As you can see in each situation, this project does conform to our design review criteria. Uh, a little bit of detail on just a couple of them, the parking loading and stacking piece of it. There is a dedicated loading zone, which the applicant will show you as part of their presentation. Um, the off street parking requirement. Uh, there is, uh, I'll have a little more information on that on the following slide. Uh, a little bit on the architectural style. The applicant will, will really talk about the architectural style that they selected. It's a mix. So they didn't necessarily pick one of the five Cooper Johnson styles. They actually made a, they blended some of those styles for an alternative, for an alternative architectural ask. On the parkland impact fee, you'll see NA there because these are transient units. There is no impact fee or there is no parkland fee that is applied to the project. And you'll also see an NA next to the citizen participation plan. But I want to caveat that by saying that this applicant has really gotten out into the communities. He's had several meetings with the chamber, several meetings with the DRC. He's been to the, to the, the CRA advisory committee on a couple of occasions. And he's been in front of the architecture review committee on, on a number of occasions. Well, as, and also the, the, the local planning agency. So there's been a lot of outreach on the applicants part. Um, even though it wasn't necessarily required as part of this particular ask. So I just want to hit on the parking very quickly. Um, the onsite parking required for the entire project as will be presented to you, uh, is 222 spaces. And that 222 spaces are the spaces that are required after their incentive reduction. So they get a transit incentive reduction because of their location and a bike rack incentive, uh, bike rack reduction for installing bicycle racks. So the onsite parking provided, as you can see is falls under that 222, it's at 133 spaces. And it's all contained within that internal parking garage, which you guys will see as part of this, of the presentation. That leaves a delta or an additional parking need of 89 spaces. So as the commission also knows, the land development code provides for additional options to accommodate that lack of, or that, that, that parking delta that's underneath what is required. And some of those incentives include the parking bank as an example, and also revocable parking agreements. And that is what the applicant is proposing here. So you will see exhibit E in your backup, a, a revocable parking agreement. And that is a parking agreement that is set up to accommodate valet parking. Uh, and it would move. And the way it would work is the applicant at the same time is planning a new parking garage, uh, at, um, 968 Douglas Avenue. And that valet parking would move in between this project and that new parking garage. The revocable parking agreement anticipates, uh, the, those unused spaces, um, and 125 of the space. So let me back up. So the Douglas parking garage is anticipated to accommodate 318 parking spaces. 125 of those will be specifically set aside through the revocable parking agreement to meet that need at the main street exchange site. And in doing so, that gives them, that actually provide, that provides total parking to the main street exchange project at 258, which is a 36 space surplus. Um, and I know the applicant also has a presentation on how that valet service will work. So we'll, they'll, they'll get to that shortly after, after our presentation. I want to hit also quickly on the traffic side of the, of the request development projects that generate more than 300 new peak hour trips on a non-deficient road corridor must be reviewed by the city's traffic engineer to determine if the impacts of the project adversely affect the level of service. Uh, Jerry Debkowski with ice engineering was our third party review consultant on behalf of the city. Uh, he, he's not able to be here tonight because I think he's, uh, not feeling well, but his, his partner, and I'm going to, I'm going to mess this last name up too, I think. But, uh, Jeffrey Antonacci, uh, is here in his stead in case there's any questions on that peer review. Um, but I, I can tell you that that peer review, the results showed that the two adjacent roadways, Main Street and Douglas will continue to operate an acceptable level of service with the addition of the project traffic. And the applicant has also done a nice job of including multimodal inclusions that include wider sidewalks, a pull off transit space and bicycle and golf cart amenities. And at the bottom of this slide, you can see some of those, uh, daily trips and peak trips that were a product of that, uh, traffic impact analysis and the subsequent review by our third party engineer. Uh, I'm just going to give a little shout out to the developer in the sense that they really provided some additional information that we don't typically ask for. Um, so I just wanted to kind of mark those very quickly. Uh, we did receive from them, uh, not only a compatibility statement and exhibit showing the height and mass of surrounding structure. So that, that is a necessary requirement and they did provide that, but there was all, there's also bicycle and golf cart provisions or amenities being included in the project. Uh, you'll see from the renderings when the applicant does their presentation that the new bike racks are mainly located near the trail at the Monroe, at the Monroe street side. Um, and they've also included several dedicated golf cart spaces in the parking garage. They have, um, provided, uh, commitments and intentions related to undergrounding of utilities. They have provided estimates on delivery vehicle sizes, types and frequencies of deliveries. Uh, they have provided the justification for the additional story for that type C street portion to the rear of the project and also the waiver of the passageway requirements. They have also provided justification for waiver of the 10 foot step back in certain areas above the second floor and approval of their alternative architectural style. They have provided amenities, which will be open to the public versus hotel guests. And they've also provided a fiscal impact memorandum that includes a look at assessed value estimates, uh, property tax estimates, sales tax estimates. And, uh, there was also a piece in there regarding, uh, the anticipated value escalation of properties in and around the subject property. And all of that is located in exhibit, exhibit I in your backup from a committee standpoint, as I mentioned, um, these are really the most recent committee actions, but they have been to many of these, uh, uh, uh, committees multiple on multiple occasions, but they were at the development review committee, both on December 18 and October 15. They were at the architectural review committee on October 3rd, and then formally on October 7 of 2025. Uh, at, at that time, arc recommended the application to the LPA subject to the unique alternative blend of the two approval to approved architectural styles. And that the applicant revised the landscape plan to include a greater variety of Florida native species prior to LPA's review of the project, which they did. Um, they revised those landscape plans, uh, and they have been conditionally approved by the city arborist. The local planning agency then reviewed it on January 14 and did unanimously recommend the design review approval to the city commission. I will really quickly mention that there was one kind of what I would call soft condition that came out of that to kind of soften the color palette for the project. And the applicant, I think is prepared to talk to you a little bit about that tonight and what they did to respond to that. So finally, uh, from my perspective, and then I'll turn it over to Bob, uh, staff finds that application DR 20, 25, 0, 0, 2 for design review is consistent with the applicable review criteria. Uh, and we would recommend it subject to the following conditions. One, that the applicant developer is responsible for meeting the minimum criteria of the land development code and for acquiring all their jurisdictional permits and approvals. Two, construction plans shall be consistent with the approved design review plans and drawings. Three, the city commission approve of the revocable parking agreement for the valet parking operation as a means of satisfying off-street parking requirements. And four, design review approval shall expire in 12 months from the date of the city commission design review approval unless the applicant obtains infrastructure review approval and vertical building permits. So with that, uh, uh, mayor and commissioners, that concludes my, my comments and I'm gonna pass it over to Bob for some, some comments on the CRA side. Sure, thanks George. Uh, Robert Ironsmith, economic development director. Obviously George did a great job running through all the different, uh, criteria that meets all. I kind of broke this down to kind of a few things, you know, why this project? Why now? Why Mazda's holdings as a developer? Is it, is it good for downtown? So let me just share some of the thoughts that I have on this. Obviously I've been with the city for a long period of time. We've had many, uh, development proposals on this project that did not occur. And today this project remains, uh, remains vacant and dormant. And it's really a break for a downtown. And what it does is it negatively impacts the shops and stores to the east. People tend to get to that building, think there's nothing else, and they kind of stop. And we're seeing that as we talk to the merchants. So if we get this project activated, let it serve as an engine, it will go ahead and help the whole Main Street. Remember the goal that we've always had with the gateway. If you remember the deep plan, downtown East End plan, activate city hall. This is a beautiful building that we all get a great chance to work in. The pocket park called Grand Oak Park that we're working on. Skinner Boulevard, which has got a few more steps to go. And the other one is the gateway, of course. But the goal was to go ahead and get some depth to Main Street and move it to the east. This project, being vacant and dormant for all these years, has really hurt that initiative. So why this project? It's a signature project. It is a multi, uh, development, which we want to see. Why, uh, Mazda's holding to the developer? This is a great thing. Local developer, gonna hold the property, has bought other property in the, uh, downtown. And is fully committed and has done various surveys and has met with various groups throughout, uh, the last several years in order to come up with the right project. He wants something that offers new experiences. He wants something that fits in with the ambiance and the feel of the downtown. And obviously you're going to see that with a lot of the different, uh, presentations that he's going to do today. So it's way different than if the city went out for an RFP and you get a firm that's coming out of the east coast or somewhere else. It doesn't have the same time or, or the ability to spend time in the downtown to really get a feel for it. Mazda's holdings and Bill Mazda's has done that. Is it good for the downtown, right? That's a question we all want to ask ourselves. I'm going to say absolutely is good for us. Again, it's a break in our downtown. It's going to be a multi-use project. He's done surveys. He wants to go ahead and get a marketplace, a food hall. He wants to be able to offer other opportunities for people to come and spend time in our downtown. The other key thing to remember is it's, as a boutique hotel, it's what we as economic development professionals call a captive market. What does that mean? People that go to a hotel spend money in the shops and in the stores, and that's what we need. We need that captive market to make sure that we keep all the different merchants in downtown. We don't want to just be craft breweries, alcohol, and restaurants. We want to have other things for people to do. The hotel does that, bringing the steady stream of people who help support the downtown. So I feel very positive about the project. He spent a lot of time doing his landing page, getting surveys, trying to get a good feel for the community. And it's something that sometimes you don't always get to see. So I think he's been very thoughtful and kind of mindful in being able to get a good feel for the community. And again, he even bought a property just across the street there, just behind the John R. Lawrence Pioneer Park. That's going to be also a home for his offices and his leasing. So he's going to be here firsthand. If there's concerns and things, people can walk right over to his office. So that also shows a lot of good faith for me in order to see that, as opposed to someone coming in, building in two years, they're going to sell it, they're going to flip it. That's not the situation here, too. So with that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to the presentation. Or do you want to have questions? So I think probably a lot of our questions might get answered as the developer gets up, or the applicant. Do you think we should wait on questions, or does anybody want to ask? It's up to you guys. Okay, so let's go ahead and go to the applicant's presentation as well. Oh, I have to do that. Yeah, we're not seeing it on our screens, though. We need to see it on our screens, too. That must be controlled in the back. Everybody needs an engineer, I guess. Not good. I do have a thumb drive. All right. Madam Mayor, may we proceed? Absolutely. Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. Yes. Brian Onks, 625 Court Street, McFarlane, Ferguson, and McMullen here on behalf of the applicant, Mazes Development. This is a homegrown project. This was a project that was very deliberatively and passionately designed with a lot of community input, and a lot of input from your amazing staff, and your ARC, and your LPA. And this project has been improved over the course of at least three years. This is an all-local development team, led by the vision of Mr. Bill Mazes, who is a lifetime resident of North Pinellas County, has been a business owner in Dunedin, and supporter of Dunedin for decades. And as Mr. Ironsmith said, has the office directly across the street from 380 Main Street. So he will be proactively involved in not just the design and the implementation, but the development, management, and operation of this facility. Next slide, please. You're all extremely familiar with this site. It is in the heart of the downtown. The amazing thing about this opportunity is that Mr. Mazes has also got under control the 968 Douglas former industrial storage yard. So you've got two key properties in your amazing downtown activity center, your downtown core, that were ripe for revitalization. And you're getting both of those properties revitalized in a complimentary project at the exact same time. So there was not much left to do in downtown Dunedin. I mean, it is already amazing, an amazing amenity for your citizens and your visitors. But this project really, I think, will be a crown jewel for that heart of the downtown core and then the complimentary parking garage, which is already under development and already under construction. Next slide, please. This is the site plan. And what this is showing you is not just the site plan and the orientation of the Main Street Exchange project, but it's also showing you minimum sidewalks versus what the city staff had recommended or suggested in red, and what is actually being provided. So when we're talking about what the specific requests of the development review or design review are for the commission, as Mr. Kinney stated, the portion of the property to the north that is going towards Monroe Avenue, that's on its street front is type C. And so there's a request to go up to four stories or 43 feet in height, which is within your purview. One of the requirements for that is that we have architectural designs that are basically excellent and that avoid a canyon effect. And so what you're seeing here is an intentionally designed site plan that does meet step backs in certain, the 10 foot step back in certain areas provides a significant amount of defenstration and architectural context and interesting architecture. On the Main Street side, we've got sidewalks and common open space up to 14 feet that are inviting, that will bring in the pedestrians. The food hall on the Pinellas Trail side is exceptionally integrated into the Pinellas Trail. It's pedestrian oriented, cyclist oriented. This entire project is designed to be multimodal and pedestrian and cyclist oriented. Before I get to our architect John Pantazas, I wanted to just put in your mind, imagine our terrific Toronto Blue Jays fans in that hotel right now and walking throughout Main Street tonight and then tomorrow or Saturday, opening day, walking to TD Bank Park, which they'll be able to do from this amazing amenity. I mean, it's just such a complimentary project for the downtown and for the spirit, culture and family of Dunedin. Next slide. And I'll turn it over to our architect, John Pantazas, who will take you through the next several slides. Good evening, everyone. I'll keep this short because I know everybody's probably seen this already. But if you were to give this project the style, it's basically a blend of French Creole and Mediterranean revival. And you could see it, you know, through the galleries, the balconies, the ornamental work, the window treatments, the trim work. And if you go to the next slide, you know, we've created this gallery on the side of the trail, you know, that gives you that in and out feel, you know, and it gives everybody the opportunity to actually experience the trail, you know. And if you look at the Douglas side, you could see how we broke down the facade in multiple architectural expressions. It's basically bringing the scale down to the pedestrian level, giving that experience, it gives it interest. It's not just one monolithic building or one style. It's basically a style that kind of is bringing back some of the old Florida elements and the typical Main Street feel that you would see in a town. Next slide. Okay, so one of the biggest concerns is the scale, the massing, you know, the four stories, the three stories. I could tell you as an architect, it is the right thing to do. Because what you're doing, this project is creating urban continuity between all the developments that you have here already. And it creates that streetscape. It provides like a comfortable level for a pedestrian. Like if you view the fourth floor from the ground level or the street level, it's practically invisible. So we basically, we adhere to the 10 foot step back above the retail, right? And then there's an additional 10 feet on the fourth levels. That's 20 feet back to create like, so you could barely, you'd have to see it on a drone device or maybe like, you know, four football fields away to actually see the fourth level here. So, you know, this project to me is basically a home. Like I live here. I grew up here. My parents had a business here, you know, and it means a lot to me. Like I'm actually honored to do something for the city that I grew up in. And actually, Bill Mazas is an incredible owner. The architecture is only as good as the owner is. And we are compassionate about this. And so I do feel this is the right thing to do. That's all I got to say. John will be, of course, available for questions. And I'm going to ask him to come back up in just a couple minutes to talk about the parking garage architecture. Because I want you to see that complimentary project. It's not subject to the request tonight, but it goes hand in hand. I want you to get a full view of that project as well. So from a compatibility perspective, I won't spend a ton of time on this. You know the developments in the area. You know the Artisan. You know the Oceanic Building. This is obviously the view to the west towards the marina and the gulf. And then the next slide will be the view to the east. And you can see Meese Dunedin Hospital there in the distance. And the compatibility, I think, is spoken to by, first off, the fact this is the downtown core. So we're not asking for a variance. You know, a variance is when you want to do something you're not allowed to do. What we're asking is something that the code encourages us to do. Which is go to four stories with commission approval. But prove that you earned it through your design. And through your thoughtfulness. And through your compatibility. And I think that's what we've accomplished. Next, we're going to play a short video. And you'll hear from the, oh, I'm sorry. This is the summary of the request. So you've heard, obviously, about the four story for the building portion to the north. That is part of the street frontage type C. And then that 10-foot step back waiver. That really is not uniform throughout the building. There's only certain portions of the building that are subject to that. And I think we've explained in detail how well designed the building is. Next, we'll go to a very brief video. And then Mr. Mazas will walk you through the next few slides and tell you a little more about his vision. So good evening, everyone. My name is Bill Mazas. I'm the developer. You can see the video. I was going to let the video play through before I started talking. But I think it would be kind of odd being up here and not saying anything. So as you can see, we've put a lot of time and thought into this project. I'm a 50-year resident of Pinellas County. I am a member of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church. I have no other religious affiliation. I want everyone to understand. I'm going to skip right to what makes us who we are and Mazas' development. We're a small boutique firm. And to show the commitment that we've got to this project, we basically purchased the property across the street and that's going to be our office. We're not going anywhere. We're committed to this. When we came to the LPA meeting, if it's one thing that I take pride on our company, it's that we take the time to actually listen. That's why this project's taken three years. Like Bob has said, we've met with a lot of agencies. We've met with the city. We've met with downtown stakeholders. We've met with the Dunedin Chamber. After the LPA meeting, we realized there was still confusion around the site. That's why we decided to go ahead and launch a landing page. We wanted to explain the project so people could understand that, yes, there is parking. Yes, we're being sensitive to the character of Dunedin, the charm. We're not looking to take away. We're looking to compliment. Sometimes when you're doing these designs in Revit, these are very complicated softwares. They're not pretty all the time. And it doesn't always reflect what you want it to show. So that's why we took three snippets and we had promised that we would do this to kind of show, as this develops, how you're going to see the detailing and how it's going to transform the project. So on the left side of this slide, you'll see this is the corner of Douglas and Main Street. The left side is what, you know, we had on our Revit model. The right side is, once you start detailing it and you get down to the, you know, the knit and grit of the design, you're able to tone down the colors a little bit, detail it a little bit nicer and make it more appealing. If we can go to the next slide. This is a slide of the boutique hotel, which is in the middle of Douglas Avenue of the property. Again, you can see on the, on the left side, the original, on the right side, an alternative, where again, the colors are a little bit toned down. We're trying to bring a little bit more of the Scottish, you know, color palette into it, because we understand that that's important. We feel that it's probably the right thing to do. And, and we say, you know, we're hearing, we're listening to what people are saying, the comments they're saying. If we can go to the next slide. Again, this shows the corner of Monroe. Once you detail it, once you put, you know, the colors up, it changes. It becomes a lot more appealing. What I want to reflect with this is our company. We're not, we're not here to say, this is it. And, you know, we're done. We're still making refinements. I mean, we went to the Dunedin Chamber. We met with them again. We realized that it's what Bob had mentioned earlier. Not every business is thriving in the downtown. You know, when you start heading east on, on Main Street, it, the narrative kind of changes there. And that's what we want to see what we can do with this project. How can we help this? I believe that this project, all these years that the Ocean Optics site has been there, it really hasn't offered much to the downtown. I think that through the years and through the listening and the meetings, we've really come up with a concept that complements everything in the downtown and activates the downtown. It gives residents a place to go. It has a sense of community. It ties a lot of the downtown together. If we can go to the next slide. So, I want to clear up another, call it a rumor or false information. We are not affiliated with the Dunedin Public Theater. This is not going to be a performing arts theater. That's why we met with the Dunedin Public Theater just yesterday. And we wanted to clarify this and we wanted them to know from, you know, where we're coming from on this project. We wanted to just show the possibilities of what we envisioned the venue being. And that's, you know, moving forward, we are going to be calling this just a venue for events. And basically, you can see, you can host a fashion show. You can have a cooking exposition. You can do a tribute band. You're going to have a movie theater. Again, a dance recital. We're looking at this being a multi-purpose room and it can be utilized for many, many things. We think it's going to be a huge compliment to the downtown. I mean, a comedy night. So, we're looking at a very versatile space that the way it's being designed, it's going to be able to transition quickly. It's going to be a quicker transition from what a typical space would be because of the way that we're designing it. So, again, I just want, I want the commission. I want the citizens, the residents. I want everyone to understand that we're committed to this. We're not a fly-by-night company. We're not here, you know, just throwing up pretty pictures. We've actually sat and we've talked with a lot of individuals. That's why we've, you know, done the landing page. We've started the community survey. We want the community to tell us what they want in these spaces. We're going to be sure that we get this right. We don't have a second chance. We've hired a great group of professionals. They're here with us tonight. Our traffic consultant, our civil engineer, you know, our architect. We have a group of architects. It's not just one. There's multiple architects for each space. You've got your hospitality consultants. Again, you know, my background's hospitality. That's what I did for 15 years, and then I got into commercial development. So it's ironic that I go back to hospitality again. But it's something that I'm very happy to do, and actually the creative juices get going. So we're excited about this. I'm going to wait for any questions you may have. I'm going to pass it over to Brian again. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. And, of course, he'll be available for questions as well. We'll try to go through the rest of this relatively quickly. I know it's been a long night. I did want to show you now the element. Yes, ma'am. It's an important project, so it's okay. It's okay. Don't want to rush it. We want to take our time, too. Good, good, good. It's all good, right? I appreciate you saying that. We'll be efficient from this point on. So this is the parking garage at 968 Douglas. This is already under construction. This site has a zoning of downtown industrial, DI, okay? So that's why we were able to go straight to permitting for this building. It is not subject to the current request. However, the plan is to put some retail on the bottom floor there. And so you will see in these elevations the retail. That retail is only allowed on the first floor in the D.C., in the downtown core. So we will be coming back to the commission down the road if this is successful and the commission supports the Main Street Exchange project. We will be coming back to the commission with a rezoning and obviously go all the way through the process again with DRC, LPA. We did show the garage to ARC, though, before we started building it. Because even though we didn't have to go through ARC for the DI zoning, we knew we were going to come back for the D.C. zoning, and we wanted it to be complimentary. We wanted it to be supportable. We wanted them to have a voice and give us direction. And they did. They gave us some great direction. They wanted to make sure that we added elements such as those architectural features that make it look less like a parking garage, make it look more like a condominium, particularly when you get to the Pinellas Trail side. This garage is in a part of the Pinellas Trail that hasn't been particularly aesthetically pleasing with that industrial storage yard. There's a surface parking lot to the rear. Obviously, Cafe Racer is next door, which is amazing. And the Artisan is next door, which does a great job of integrating their garage into the trail. And that's exactly what this will do as well. Next slide, please. And now I'll have Mr. Pantazas to come up and briefly discuss the architecture on this one. I'll briefly discuss it. It's basically a coastal theme. It's the sister project of the Main Street Exchange. The bottom retail that we're planning in the future is going to be a complementary to that development. So we're going to incorporate details from that development down to that retail level to create that zone. We did cut the corners back on the site. You would see that we've indented the portion of that parking garage so that it doesn't fill up the whole street. And we did leave wide sidewalks in front of it to, you know, maintain a friendly pedestrian attitude. So that's all I got. Okay. Next slide. So I want to go through the parking breakdown just more specifically and hopefully it's very clear for everyone to see. So the parking count for the Main Street Exchange site, 380 Main Street, we have the Texas Donut design, which as you're probably familiar with means that the parking garage is in the center of the building and then the building is built out around it. So you enter into the center of the building, the parking garage is actually in the center of the building and everything around it's built out. And of course, the top level will be above the parking garage. So we have 220 spaces required in the Main Street Exchange site, 133 on-site spaces are required, and then there's 125 valet spaces that are provided in the Douglas parking garage, the 968 parking garage. So in that parking count, you're seeing 133 on-site spaces at 380 Main Street, and there'll be 125 reserved valet spaces in the 968 Douglas parking garage for the Main Street Exchange project exclusively for the Main Street Exchange project. And that is subject to the revocable parking agreement, which is also subject to your approval and is part of your agenda packet. Next slide, please. This is the Douglas parking garage. So this is the parking garage itself. That 125 number, that's the valet spaces reserved to Main Street Exchange. Then you will have 65 to 85 spaces that will be used by employee parking for Main Street Exchange and potentially other employees throughout the downtown. Then there's 80 spaces required for that future retail that's going to be on the bottom floor of the Douglas parking garage. So we've already accounted for those. And then you'll have 28 to 48 unaccounted for general public spaces. So that's 318 total spaces in the Douglas garage. Next will be a very short video demonstrating the garage. That's from the Pinellas Trail side, of course, transitioning over to the Douglas side and that retail and those architectural features in the frontage. And again, you're seeing expanded sidewalks, very much complimentary to the artisan, very much complimentary to that look and that feel and really go seamlessly with that project in our view. All right. Now I'll ask Jane Caldera, our traffic engineer, to lead you through our traffic study. And I know there will probably be a lot of questions about traffic and valet. So we want to spend a lot of time and really get into the meat of that here. Thank you. But you told me to be quick. Definitely don't be quick on this piece. Good evening, Madam Mayor and fellow commissioners. For the record, Jane Caldera with Trucking Traffic. I'm a professional traffic engineer. My address is 721 Gulf Boulevard, Indian Rocks Beach. What I wanted to go over was the highlights of this detailed traffic study we put together. We worked with your city staff and then reviews with your outside consultant who is here today to make sure we did a pretty comprehensive analysis of not just the mixed use development of the Main Street Exchange, but also on top of that the 318 space parking center, I think we're calling it the Douglas Street Parking Center. So this study reflects both the traffic impacts of the Main Street Exchange project, the new garage, and the effects of the valet operation between the two and that additional traffic on Douglas. And our study area did include the two roundabouts that have been recently opened at the request of the city, then the signalized intersection at Main Street, and then all the site access driveways and also the intersection of Monroe and Douglas. You said it did consider that? It did, yes. All the little green dots on that slide were the study areas. What I wanted to just show is there's a lot of details and technical things in traffic assignments, but the PM peak hour is the highest traffic generator of, you know, most projects. Usually AM is unusual to be the heavier generator, but the traffic that we're anticipating coming in to the Main Street Exchange project is 230 trips inbound in the PM peak and 192 out. And the numbers you're seeing there, you know, reflect that traffic and how they disperse within our study area. Now, within that, we specifically have, if you go to the next slide for me, George, we have this valet assignment. Because when the valet is operating, which will be when our garage is full, or it's probably going to operate 24-7 based on the events, but we're going to have additional traffic that's going to come out onto Main Street. I'm sorry, Douglas, take a left, drive to 900 feet north, park in that garage, and then there'll be a return movement when the cars are coming back to the site to get loaded up and their customers or patrons leave. So our estimates based on that traffic was an additional 74 vehicles and 61 vehicles in and out, on top of what you wouldn't normally look at if all your traffic was parked on site. So we were basically double counting as we should be to accommodate the valet operation. The next slide is just a visual of roadway capacity. And I think you heard from the presentation from your staff that, you know, the both roadways have, you know, meeting their level of service standards and the capacity is not being used up. But this visually shows that Main Street and Douglas, they have 750 cars as their level of service D capacity. And the area in blue and purple are what's being taken up by existing traffic and then our additional project traffic. So there will be a lot of excess capacity on both roadways in the peak hour. The next slide is just another way to look at the roadway capacity. 750 is what the road can hold in the peak hour and that's in one direction. And then our other two smaller bars are the existing volumes out there and the additional site traffic, including the valet traffic. Next slide, please. This just shows a little bit about intersection level service. You know, we dial in and make sure that the traffic signals will be able to maintain proper level service for your city standard and Pinellas County standards. And this is just showing the intersection of Main and Douglas and that the existing level of service is on the left in the peak hour. And with our additional traffic from the project, we're still able to get level of service B as in boy on all four approaches. And just a little background on level of service in traffic engineering. It's like your grading in school where A is the top and F is unacceptable. And when you're in F, you try to make improvements. So B as in boy is a very high level of service. Now this next slide I put together, hopefully it's legible enough. I think click it one more time, it'll run. So I did a traffic simulation model of the PMP conditions with the additional project traffic, valet traffic, to give you a better understanding because there had been questions on how does the valet operate and where is there enough capacity to get up and down Douglas, you know, in addition to the other traffic that's coming in. So what you're seeing here is a clip and it is running at two times speed. If I ran it at real time speed, it wouldn't move very fast and you might fall asleep. So it's running at double speed. So it's to scale and it's overlaid on your aerial but just wanted to point that out. And, you know, it just is what we do to try to provide visualizations of how cars are moving in the corridor. The different colors represent through movements, faces, blue is your right turn, yellow is your left turn. And from this you could also see when traffic would be stacking up, queuing for different reasons, specifically when the light is red at the traffic signal. And this is the same information that was in my study and your consultant reviewed and concurred with, but I just didn't have any kind of visual simulation. So I thought this just might give you an idea of what the numbers will look like with the project open, what the traffic volumes will look like. And I'm available for any questions. Thank you. Thank you, Jane. And this is just an image of the revocable parking agreement reserving those 125 valley spaces for Main Street Exchange in the Douglas Parking Center. And then the next slide is our last slide. This is simply a summary of our presentation and our evidence. We believe we've presented confidential evidence, which is the quasi-judicial standard, for approval of the fourth floor, up to fourth floor for the C-type frontage to the north, and also for a limited waiver of that 10-foot step back based on the very thoughtful design. And we're happy to answer any questions that you have. Thank you for your consideration. Okay. So questions of staff or applicant. I'll start with Commissioner Gao this time. Thank you, ma'am. Oh, my goodness. I thought I was prepared until you had the presentation. Thank you, everybody, for being here. Just for my comfort, maybe the commission, a show of hands if you're with the developers or the company in some form or fashion. Show of hands. Thank you. Show of hands if you're a business owner or have some relationship downtown. And then show of hands if you're a resident of Dunedin. And then we've got some that are just curious, I suppose. All right. Just wanted to see who was here. Can we finish that? What? Can we finish that? How? Show of hands of who likes the project of the citizens. Show of hands who doesn't like the project of citizens. Okay. I just assumed that would have occurred with citizen comment. Right. Me too. But, hey, I figured, you know, get a quick look. Uh, Main Street Exchange. How did you come up with that name? And how do you think it fits into the city of Dunedin? We came up with the name because it was on Main Street and it's an exchange. Basically, you have all these different ideas and concepts coming together. Very simple. Very simple. You were in a bar when you came up with that. I was going to say, it wasn't in Caledonia. Yeah. Well, and yeah, because no, I, when I thought of exchange, I went to like a mercantile exchange or something. And I just, okay. Thank you very much. I was just curious. I was going to give my opinion. I was going to give my opinion, but it's irrelevant. I mean, you name it what you want. Um, and I assume that is the name you're sticking with, right? That will be on all advertising and, and everything. Okay. Uh, okay. Uh, artwork. And I know that you've been drug through with architecture and LPA, but I was just curious and I am looking at exhibit G, but I know that you have on the facade around the building, several different murals or things of that nature. Are those placeholders? The pictures I'm looking at, or is that what's going to be on the outside of the building? No, they're placeholders. Okay. So all that we know at this point is something's going to go there. Well, we're going to, that's something that we're going to go out to the arts community and we're going to put it out. Um, I believe that there's a, is it 0.5% of, of the budget that needs to go to the arts. Uh, and, and that's what we're going to do is we're going to commission. We're going to have those commissioned out. Of course, again, you know, this is where, when we're going to be putting these murals up there, we're going to be mindful. It's going to be tasteful. Um, you know, I thought the, uh, some of them were kind of interesting. Some of them were very interesting. Yes, they were. Um, sorry, just to add some context to that. So, um, the 0.5% of the total project costs that's required to be public art, uh, the public art application, uh, which was included as exhibit B to the packet will be processed by the strategy and sustainability manager, uh, and go through that normal process and go to the culture advisory committee and the public art program. And I know that we did go there for an informal, like just the concept, but yeah, it's not final, but it will go through that process. Okay. Very good. And just, uh, since you mentioned Scottish, uh, you've got the, uh, hairy coo or the Highland cow on, on the Monroe's or the, the trail side. And I just think maybe a Highlander, um, a bagpiper, somebody would be much better suited. Uh, and on the, on the Monroe side, you are the Scottish side. Uh, don't listen to Alan. Don't listen to Alan. Uh, and on the, um, Douglas side, you had the fish on bikes, on bikes. If something like that stays, make sure that those fish, it's National Whale Day. National Whale Day. We're celebrating. Just some, make sure, make sure that things tie in as native as they can be. And, and the Gulf and as close to our community as possible. Uh, that's really important in our community. Uh, let's see. Uh. Uh. I'm not sure what we're in. Uh. Apparently. Uh. Okay. Bob. Bob. In, in your opening remarks. Yes. You mentioned that this project is going to help the east end of Main Street. Yes. Can you share with me how? Certainly. Well. Because you're still that buffer with the church and Pioneer Park and, and all that. So. Certainly. I mean, right now it's a barrier. Uh, once that is activated and there's the boutique hotel and others, pedestrian traffic will go to the east and we'll make sure that we get the appropriate little signage that points to more shops. Right now people tend to stop and we're hearing it from the merchants. In fact, we heard it from, uh, the Giftsby, which has a shop in Victoria Place and the shop over there by the, uh, living room. And the foot traffic just tends to stop. Right. And we've heard that from other merchants also that we've talked to, like Wild Iris, Citrus Stiles and all. So, I think once that becomes activated, people will be more inclined to start to walk to the east. Right. And, and yeah, I don't think you get any argument that it does stop. And that's a problem. Mm. But so if people, people are stopping because nothing is leading them there. And so I don't see if this is on the west side of Douglas, what's the lead to get them to the east side? I, there'll be more activity at that intersection, but what's going to lead them to the east side? There'll be a lot more activity there. I remember we had the market too on Friday and Saturday, but right now. That's existing. So we already have that. So. Correct. But it's going to be a synergy effect. You're going to have the hotel in, you're going to have the market. But right now people are just stopping around the Cafe El Fresco area and not even walking that additional footage across, you know, the current ocean optics or whatever property, you know, that property today. They'll be much more inclined to walk to the east for sure. This will be an activity engine. This is a multi-use development project. So we're going to see people walk that way. They're going to go ahead and search other restaurants. They'll look, they're going to have their own marketing materials. I'm sure Bill will be willing to put that in there. You'll have the living room, you'll have the Pisces, all those places. People will start to walk that way. So I've seen that happening. Okay. And you had mentioned that it's good for the downtown. I did. Is it good for the community? Yeah. I think it's very good for the community. I think this is, you know, we had set the groundwork many years ago with trying to revitalize Douglas Avenue. If you remember, Douglas was a concrete place, a metal fabricator. Now we're starting to see that change. This is going to offer new experiences for people in the community to come to. Remember the surrounding area, a lot of it is golf cart friendly. So people are going to take the golf cart from the surrounding residential and come here, go to the food hall, go to the marketplace, maybe go into that multi-event space for theater or a comedy hour or something along those lines. So, yeah, it's going to be very good for the community. And, you know, I'm one that lives up toward off of Keene, off of Curlew. Yeah, I'll be coming down to see what they offer. For sure. Okay. We are very strongly engaged in the community. And, right, we always talk about the uniqueness of Dunedin. We do. And what brings us together and what makes us different from other communities. We're very proud of our community connection in Dunedin. I know you're not down there, but how can, do you have any response to what is that community feel and connection on Clearwater Beach? The connection between Clearwater Beach and downtown Dunedin? No, just the feeling on Clearwater Beach. Oh, it's very different. I know you're talking about the hotel type element, but this is different. This is a combination hybrid situation that we have in our downtown. We're talking about an 89-room boutique. We're not talking about a Grand Hilton or Hyatt or whatever else in Clearwater Beach. The volume and size, scale, mass is way different than what we have in our downtown. And I think that's, you know, something that the commission should be proud of over the years. I was very concerned about height, scale, mass, and compatibility. So the feel and the flavor of our downtown is way, way different than Clearwater Beach. Even take a look at our roundabouts. Their roundabout is 45,000 trips a day. We're at 12,000 trips a day. There's multi-access. Ours is one access. Our environment and what we've built here in the downtown is way, way different. And I think the other thing that's interesting about Clearwater is Dunedin is connected to everything. Clearwater Beach is not as connected to downtown. Downtown is not as well connected to countryside. Countryside is not as well connected to Federal Sound. We don't have that here in Dunedin. And, frankly, that's one of the reasons I love being a part of this is we're able to reach out. And Bill has certainly been on his travels reaching out to numerous groups, doing the survey. He wanted to find out what do people want to see. I mentioned to him very early on, and he has told me others have too, he wants to make sure that his food hall is able to offer a little bit of a quicker eatery and a little bit more affordable. Because there's many places in downtown where you don't have more than a half hour to get a bite to eat. And he's looking to do that, which I think is really good for us. If you remember with the artisan, one of the things we had heard is we wanted a little marketplace. And we searched, and of course we went to Nature's Food Patch in Clearwater. And initially we couldn't get that and the developer, Mr. Kokolakis at that time, all together. And, in fact, we were able to bring it. Mr. Kokolakis worked with us, getting the rent down a little bit. It helped him to make the apartments lease up very quickly. But that's kind of the relationship that we're developing with Mazda's Holdings. And that's why I'm excited about the project. He does care about the community. He's going to have his office here. He wants to make sure that everything goes well. And being able to pick up the phone, that makes a difference. Because again, Clearwater, other places, they go out for RFPs. They get someone from outside the area to go ahead and develop. We have someone that's here in our backyard. That's a pretty big plus. Thank you, Bob. Okay. How do you, and this can be for either one, just the definition when it comes to traffic and roads, how do you define level of service? What are you measuring when you are measuring level of service? When you measure level of service, like the signalized intersection, it's based on your delay. Okay. So if your average delay for your vehicle is up to 15 seconds, that's in the range of B. I don't have all the ranges. When you get up around 60 seconds, you're at the pass and D level of service, E and F. So it's based on the average delay for the vehicle coming up to the intersection. When you look at roadway links at, you know, sections of just roadway, you look at the capacity of the road, and when you start to get to a volume to capacity ratio of one, then you've exceeded whatever that level of service is. So I think the main answer is how long you sit there and wait. Okay. So talking about the car and how... Yes. Right. So how do we measure that level of service against walkability? I guess, I'm not sure I understand your question. So we have pedestrian counts at intersections. So for example, you have the activated pedestrian signals out at Douglas in Maine where they're on demand. They'll press the button. They'll get activated. When the traffic stops on the other road, they cross safely. So your pedestrians are accommodated for every cycle if they press it. And then your vehicles are, based on the timings Pinellas County has out there, you know, they're processed about every 55 seconds. That's the general cycle length out there. I haven't observed any delays out there that are significantly long. And I've been at the intersection many, many times. Certainly not on an event day. That's a different story. You know, it could even be closed and things. But on your average conditions, there isn't significant delay at that intersection based on the standard traffic engineering guidelines. Okay. And so if I'm a pedestrian and we have a lot of walkers and I'm hitting that crosswalk button to get across, which triggers the signal change. Yes. Does that then impact the level of service? No. As it's measured? No. Because, um, so the signal timings out there to cross as a pedestrian, you get 10 seconds of, um, what they call your, your walk sign, right? It's usually the white sign with the person walking. And then you get another 10 seconds of flashing don't walk to make sure whoever started can clear. So you're getting 20 seconds when you're a pedestrian. At the same time, the traffic going in that direction, let's say they're going east-west on Main Street, at the same time that people are walking east-west on Main Street. So they're not taking away time from the traffic. You know, Jane, excuse me, if I could add too. Remember, this is a very short walk. Uh, we, we made this very walkable with the bulb outs on Douglas. So this is a quick, getting from side to side. Yes. 20 seconds for the full pedestrian phase is, is quick because it's a, it's a short walk. Like, for example, um, you know, if you're going to cross, uh, US 19 at an intersection, they need to give you, you know, 65 seconds or something to walk across that roadway. All based on, you know, the average walking speed of someone and then safety factors to make sure they've cleared the intersection. So I don't think the additional pedestrian phasing will take away from the traffic level of service. Yes. Thank you for that. Cause yeah, the last thing we wanted to do was interrupt a car. I agree with that. Um, uh, yeah, I was in a smart aleck. Yeah. Uh, when it comes to all the retail units that you're having, are you going to outsource that or how is that going to be managed? If you have a vacancy in a unit, how quickly will that turn around? How active are you going to be? Well, this is, this kind of ties in with, again, the discussion with the chamber the other originally the corner of main street and Douglas was, uh, slated to be a restaurant, full service, breakfast, lunch, dinner. But we've been thinking about it because we do have an opportunity to turn it into smaller shops, 500 square foot shops, 600 square foot shops, and really promote the, the small business entrepreneur that is, you know, trying to sell something. So again, my background, commercial real estate, I manage properties. Uh, we have a management company. It's, it's very easy to fill, especially, you know, if you're talking 500, 600 square foot spaces, they go very quick. So I'm not worried about that. Um, and your events space, it sounds like we're kind of backing away from the label of theater and it's more event space. Yeah. Uh, no, I'm sorry. Uh, and how was that? How, what are you trying to do with that space? Can we anticipate the equivalent? Are you trying to bring the Capitol theater? No. Downtown Dunedin? No. When we sat back in our consultants, we looked at Dunedin. Like I said, we've studied it for, for multiple years now. This isn't something that we just woke up one day and said, Hey, let's do a great venue. It, it actually started off being a workspace. And then we started scratching our heads going, well, where's the workspace? Who's going to come here? I mean, I know that we love the idea of live work play and all that, but we just didn't see the demand for the workspace as much as we saw the demand that Pinellas County as a whole venues that can hold 200 to 300 people. There aren't many. And that's a sweet spot. We made sure that the, the space we were designing again, it's a very smart design because we've put storage bays directly along the length of the whole venue. So we can stage quickly. And it's all about the turnaround. When we said it's a theater in the beginning, that's why we met with the Dunedin public theaters because we wanted to clarify this. We're not competing with the, with the public theater. We can host a small black box event, but then there's the practicality of it that are you really doing the service to the community? You know, you're talking about a space now that can serve multiple purposes. Daytime. It could be something else evening. It could be something else on the weekend, something else. A lot of times when you do a theater production for three weeks, that's all you're doing. So I don't know if that would really be beneficial to the shop owners, to the downtown, to the residents. We were looking to bring something that's really going to be community centric. That's going to make an impact. You know, during the week, you might see a movie night. You might see a comedian. It's going to bring, it's going to be a significant impact to the downtown. I think it's going to be well wanted. And I think it's going to be a plus for the businesses. If I may add, just over the years from like visit St. Pete and other places, we always heard that there's no place for like a corporate retreat toward the North Pinellas to hold something like 250 or 300 people. There should be something like that. You're not going to be able to compete with like large hotels or something like that in Clearwater Beach. It can hold much larger. But for something like 250 or 300 people, we thought this is a great venue for a corporate retreat. You know, and other things too, weddings or comedy hour, what have you. So it's a good space to have in our downtown. Again, another activity engine for us. Thank you. Thank you. And on the parking garage, and I know I'm going back and forth. It's how my head works. Sorry about that. In the numbers of spaces, and I can't remember the actual numbers, but you had, I believe it was 80 spaces were reserved for retail. And then there was like 24 to 48, I think, like for public parking. That's it. Yes. Yes. And so when you say retail, are those retail customers or those employees of those retail establishments? I'll do this one, Bill. So that's the required number of spaces for the to be built retail on the ground floor of the garage. So once, if this gets approved, and if we get a rezoning down the road from DI to DC, that's the minimum number of code required spaces for that square footage of retail. Okay. So they aren't, at this point, they aren't designated out. Correct. And the garage is going to be open before Main Street Exchange is even built. So those spaces will be open up and until they're required to be used pursuant to the revocable parking agreement and the code for the uses that are to be built. Okay. So if you are successful, though, those spots will be for, now I guess, if I'm understanding you correctly, maybe that the retail and the public spaces are the numbers that are needed, but you're not going to have them separated. In other words, I think what you, if we could put that slide back up, George, this one here that shows Douglas Center. Okay. So I believe this is, Commissioner Gao, what we're talking about? Yes, sir. So in other words, if you think about the uses and the required parking per code for the uses, so we have 125 spaces we've committed to setting aside for the valet for Main Street Exchange. That's in excess of what was required by code, by the way, including the onsite for Main Street Exchange. So we're providing excess for Main Street Exchange that's required by code. And then from required by code for that retail is the 80. And then the other spaces that are seen there, 65 to 85, that's intended to be used by the employees of Main Street Exchange because we want to make sure that the users of Main Street Exchange that are not employees also have the spaces and excess spaces. So I believe it's Bill's intent to have a system whereby the employees of Main Street Exchange and that retail in the Douglas Center will be parking there so that they're not taking, so they're not looking for spaces somewhere else around downtown. And that would leave an excess of 28 to 48 in that range. And that's for the peak hours. Okay. And so the 80 to up to 48, those, I guess, I'm trying to figure out from the public's perspective, how many spaces can they anticipate having? Is it going to be segregated that these 80 spaces are for retail, public, you don't have access? Or how is that going to work? Well, I think, again, we're going to be monitoring this because at all times, you're not going to need these spaces. I mean, let's be realistic. There's going to be, there's peak times and we're, what we're reflecting is peak times. I mean, I don't think anybody would have appreciated if we were doing this development. And the next thing you know, the little parking that Dunedin did have is being taken up by employees. I think that that would be a problem. So I wanted to be sure that we accounted for it because I didn't want anybody thinking, well, where's everyone going to park? We're showing you a number. Now, at any given time, are those spaces going to be utilized like that? Probably for the majority of the time, not. And it will be open. I mean, we're going to be monitoring when, when we have 80 spaces for future retail, we have surplus at Main Street Exchange. That's for the public. I mean, that's for the public coming and visiting the property and the downtown. I mean, we're not monitoring where are they going. Are they going just to our project or are they going across the street? It's available parking. So you aren't envisioning a situation where if I'm a member of the public, I'm pulling in. Public is full. Residential has spaces. But because I'm not going to your stores, I can't use those spaces. I mean, that's really hard to monitor. How would you monitor that in a garage environment? Not my project. I don't know. Jane Caldera. Jane Caldera. The way I anticipate it working, and I don't think we've gotten into the details of the pavement markings on the garage or signage on every space, but there's, there will be an area that says valet only. Okay. So I don't know where they're going to be. They'll probably be marked in paint. Maybe they'll have some signs. I think that will start off to this 89 spaces per code that we need to have there. So they will be designated and I would think they'll probably be on the lowest level so they can get in and out efficiently. Then there will be spaces that say public parking. Okay. So I do believe they will be marked. You know, when you go in these garages, it says, if you're public parking, go to the second floor. Like you go in an office building and it says, well, VIPs get the first three levels and good luck when you get to the top. You know, that's the public area, right? But at the spaces will be marked. And I just think that the designated spaces will be based on the, the agreement, the parking agreement that you're signing. After that, I think they will all be public spaces. And then if, and when the retail comes in on the ground floor, they will probably have to set aside per code, unless the agreement says, we don't need to give you 80 spaces for this, for this retail here. Um, they'll probably say, you know, this parking is for whatever the project retail name is. Does that, does that answer a little better? Well, yeah, I am right. But at the end of the day, right, we, we know that paid parking is on the table and I was just trying to anticipate how many spaces we're going to be involved in that if I'm a member of the public. So that's what I was trying to figure out in my head. Okay. Thank you very much. And probably my last question is, uh, probably for you, sorry. Uh, when this project first started and it went to DRC, it was apartments and now it's a hotel. When and where and why did that, that, that change? That changed when I came to the rude awakening, when I was given a noise ordinance agreement that every resident would have to sign, being aware of what happens in the downtown, being aware that there would be road closures. And at times they may not be able to access their, uh, you know, the parking garage. Our consultants came back simultaneously to that. You know, I started scratching my head going, Hmm, I wonder if I'd want to live there. And they said, Bill, we're just telling you this site, this specific site is not destined to be residential. This is screaming boutique hotel all day long. And it's at that moment that I was like, boy, as much as I want to get away from hospitality, it just keeps dragging me back. And we made that decision. We realized that, you know, even in the meetings with the Dunedin chamber, the business owners would really, would really like to see some additional foot traffic and, and some transient traffic. And let's not forget 89 rooms is not like 200, 300, 400 rooms. It's 89 rooms. I think it would be just a, a, a, a happy addition to the downtown. So yeah, when we made that decision was when we realized that residents were not going to be happy living here. Probably be more complaining. I would think the, the residents of the artisan would beg to differ with you on that. Um, uh, that's all the other questions that I have, Mayor. Thank you. Commissioner Dugard. Questions. Thank you, Mayor. Um, great presentation. Just right off the bat. I'm in comments. I should watch that. Um, got a couple of questions for you here. Um, what kind of street repair are we going to have to do to Douglas to accommodate this building? Because that's where the, uh, parking, valet parking is going to be coming in and out. What's going on there? Yeah. Do you want to take that one? Cricor Casarjian, our civil engineer. Okay. Thank you. I think the kind of infrastructure. Cricor Casarjian, uh, Gulf Coast consulting, civil engineer, uh, Clearwater, Florida. Um, I'm, I'm sorry. Could you just for clarification repeat the question? I'm looking at the, um, traffic pattern that's going to be caused by valet and it comes in and out off Douglas, goes back to the garage. Uh, what kind of street repairs or modifications are we going to have to do to that street to make that work? Right. So I think, uh, with discussions with the, with staff, uh, was to try and widen that area between Main Street and Monroe, uh, removing some of the islands that were existing. Uh, and then one of the other, uh, concepts were to have the entrance into the valet on the north side rather than on the south. This way there isn't that continuous interruption where people are trying to get out. I thought that diagram showed me actually Douglas turnarounds. But, but it's not going to be on Monroe? You would be, no, no, you would be coming down Douglas. Okay. And you would go in from the north entrance, uh, closest to Monroe and then looping around, coming out on the south side. But it's all off Douglas. It's all off of Douglas. Okay. Right. Just want to be sure I got that right. All right. Thanks. That's good. Um, thank you. Good insights. Um, we have one very big event every month in the springtime. It's called the market. That market uses this space pretty effectively. How are we going to accommodate that? When you talk about, you mean the like arts and crafts or Mardi Gras? Yeah. Special events. I think part of the market itself, the weekend market that we have shops, tents, that kind of thing. Oh, that type of thing. Yeah, certainly, certainly. Uh, you know, one, they'll have to use the, uh, we do have a relationship with the First United Methodist Church for parking, you know, and we're also at our parking lot in Scotland and Douglas. So they'll have to, they'll have to adjust for it. I know they've gotten used to using that a lot. Yep. We do, we do lease it, uh, pretty significantly, uh, each year. Uh, they'll just going to have to adjust. Uh, they have events and markets and all the other places too. So this won't be anything new to them. It's just been a good convenience for them. But yeah, this can be a big change when this property develops, both from a special event perspective and also, as you had mentioned, with the market, with the convenient parking right there. So it'll be a change. Yep. Might be good between now and the next one to hear a little bit of a fleshing out of how that change could be operated less. Well, one of the reasons that we are pushing, you know, that we're staff is looking to move forward with a proposed parking garage in Scotland and Douglas is to provide additional public parking. I understand that and that, that, that I'm really complimentary of that particular decision. Yeah. I'm thinking of the vendors themselves that pull their carts and things and try to get in and out of that area. I'm just wondering if we're going to impede the possibility of having that market, if we're going to be having a problem with conducting the market in the future. Yeah. We certainly, we certainly can talk to them. I know some of the vendors do go to the church parking lot on Wood Street. Okay. Um, so we'll have to talk to them, but change is going to happen. Um, thank you. I appreciate that. Um, I'm a little concerned about how we're crowding the trail. Could someone give me a better picture of how our building setbacks going to be on the west side? So the trails not hurt. It's one of our best assets. Okay. Commissioner back to the market. We'll talk to, uh, Tampa Bay markets and see about that. I appreciate it. We'll get back to you. And while we're doing that, our screens aren't showing what's up there. So that's an issue. Uh, commissioner, were you mentioning the trail as it relates to the parking garage or the main street exchange project? I'm, I'm referring to the trail, uh, on the main street exchange. Okay. Very good. That west side. Yeah. Okay. So the underside of that, um, that area is a, is a, is a covered gallery. Basically it's a, it's a walkable arcade from Monroe to, to main street. Are you planning on seeing a lot of trail traffic go into the arcade? Is there going to be that kind of traffic or is it the trail just going to be? We're, we're only allowed one access according to the county. On the west side? Yes. And so, um, I mean, we are providing a little plaza on the, on the Monroe side for parking. I think it's something like, uh, Chris, was it like 30, 40 bikes or something like that? Yeah. Around 30 or 40 bicycles for, uh, for that traffic. Um, the, this is a, this is the image that's in the rendering. So I could present this to the commissioner. Okay. Sure. Yeah. I was just a commissioner. Yeah. I could leave that side open, but it's, it's a covered walkway basically. And, and on the inside face, uh, which is around 15 feet or so, there's a, there's a glass wall that basically when you're eating inside the food court or the, the marketplace, you could view the trail. Mm-hm. This way, you know, people could enjoy it in the air conditioning. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I think the other thing looking at this commissioner probably want to do, and I have not had a chance to talk to Bill, but probably want to create another bike station repair area right there. You know, I'm seeing them really work out well. We did one in front of Lucky Lobster. We did another one, of course, right next to the cafe al fresco. So we probably want to look at that again too. Yeah. I don't want our, uh, developer or the team you've put together to misunderstand. Our job is to poke holes in this as much as we can. Um, it's, it has nothing to do with my enthusiasm, but that concludes my questions. Thanks, Mayor. Okay. Oh, and, uh, so we're clearly going to go over 10 o'clock. So I wonder if I could get a motion to go over 11 o'clock. Maybe we'll push it. So moved. Second. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes unanimously. Okay. So questions, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. All right. Uh, first, uh, the waivers that have been requested. This is for staff, um, four stories and then the 10 foot setback. First of all, if I want to say conceptually, it makes sense, but, um, I want to know what allows us to approve those. I'll let George speak of that, but go ahead. As you can say, they're specifically listed in the land development code under your specific purview. So you, they, they're articulated that under commission direction, you can make those. Yeah. If, if I might add, uh, of course it did not occur for other reasons, but the gateway also had approval for four, uh, for a portion of it for, uh, four levels, four stories. Of course the project didn't go forward, but it didn't have that, it didn't get approved for that. So this is not the first time. I just wanted to mention that. And I think in support that, you know, they've done the step back twice. So they, they, they, they pushed a step back after the second story and then they pushed a step back again after the third story on, on that back portion on that type C parcel. So that is actually above and beyond, um, what you, it's, it's, it's kind of less of what they can ask you to do. You know, they're doing more to, to justify that ask to you. Yeah. Um, and it just by virtue of that and you, you know, I appreciate the explanation, but by virtue of that, are you, you're not concerned about setting a precedent for future developments? I mean, I don't, I don't think so. This one's kind of interesting cause it's split. You have a type A street in the front. That type A street is capped at 36. So you're only looking at that rear portion against Monroe. That's the type C, which allows you to go up to 46, but only with commission approval. I think we have, um, have we, I'm trying to think of a design review that we, uh, have brought that does something similar and I, I can't think of one off the top of my head. Um, but certainly the artisan is, the artisan is at, now that was done before I got here, but the artisan's sitting at about 46 feet. So there must've been a consideration at that point when that design review is going through. Okay. Cause that request would have had to been made just like this request has to be made. Okay. So basically, you know. Actually, may I vice mayor? Yeah. It was actually when we were doing the A, B and C streets, when we amended the code to, um, city commission considered the maximum height in downtown and determined that it would be, um, in DC, it would be three stories with four permitted by the city commission. So three stories by right for only by the city commission. Okay. And, and don't get me wrong. I'm, I'm trying to, trying to get to how do we justify approving this. And so my question then is from your perspective, how do you justify approving the approval of these waivers? Not a waiver. Well, uh, to, to me, as George mentioned, he's not only stepping back to fourth, he's stepping back to second and the third level too. So he's been very conscious of not having a lot of impact on main street. This is a large piece of property. Um, I, I am comfortable with it. Uh, I think this is going to be a big activity engine for the downtown. Can, can you call up that slide? That's got the angular. Can you just add to it? Um, because I, cause I don't think it's a waiver either. And you know, I was here when we did the ABC streets and it really was allowing you get three by right. We're not going to say you can't have four, but it better be doggone good and it better look good and it better make sense because the overall looks probably better than it would have looked if you left it at three and just made it a box. So I just, you know, I just, if you look at this image commissioner or vice mayor, um, you can see the, on the left, very left hand side, the ocean, the existing ocean optics building there. And you can see how that's actually taller than the third story. And then with them pushing that back in, you can see that there's about a six foot rise from that top of that building that as it exists today. So I, I guess the, the, the merit is, yeah, I think what George had a good point. And if it's architecturally sound, does it make sense? This is step backs. What's the vision? What's their existing with ocean optics. So I think that's why we're comfortable with, um, not necessarily a waiver, but granting that fourth level. Okay. Well, I, yeah, I think I'm getting it here. So based on the distinction between an A and a C street and basically the angular field of view up. So, okay. All right. Yeah. If these were both A streets, they're both A streets, your 36 would be max. Maybe, maybe we shouldn't call this a waiver then. No, I wouldn't call it a waiver. Okay. You should not call it a waiver. Yeah. Commission discretion. Makes it seem like we're, we're doing something against our code and we're not. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Okay. Consistency. Um, okay. Yeah. I've got it now. But I think that juxtaposition, those two building shows are pretty good. The glass of the ocean optics that's existing and what the step back is. So I think that's a pretty good graphic they showed there. Okay. Um, so back to, uh, the retail and the businesses that'll go into then to the main street exchange. Um, you know, we're, we're, we're pretty proud of the fact that, you know, we've, we've got local business and we don't have the big franchises. Um, how, how are you all gonna, gonna manage that? It's a good point. Well, this project hasn't been designed for franchises. It's designed for the small business entrepreneur. That's what it's all about. And, you know, that it starts from the food hall marketplace. We envision that, you know, the, the chef who wants to start a business can't that has just a great recipe of something, you know, we're going to be able to give them a place to, to kind of like an incubator that you're going to test it. They're going to, you're going to have the, uh, community judge it. If it, if it succeeds, it's going to be great. If it fails, you know, something else will come in and we're seeing the same thing with the retail. We don't see these being franchises. Okay. No Buxby in here. Photoshop. I, and I, I, I love that vision. I, I do. Um, so then the next question is, is, um, cause I have to think that space is going to go for premium lease premium dollars. And I'm just kind of curious as to what your thoughts are on that and how you're going to manage it. Well, you all are building, you see the costs. They're not going to be, you know, you're not going to get space. That's going to be 15, $20, but we're going to always be price conscience. I mean, uh, regarding the entire development, we understand what Dunedin is. And that's why in the food hall marketplace, we're looking to make affordable dining. The venue. We're looking to make, you know, as much activation as we can get and make it as affordable. The parking. Again, we're not here to gouge, but there are costs. These costs have to be covered. So you're looking to cover your costs and, you know, bring more people to these spaces. Yeah. If I may, vice mayor, just keeping the, yes, it's going to be premium rent, no doubt about it, but they're going to be small spaces. It makes it more affordable being small and then also keeps out the franchise aspect. So that's why I'm kind of, you know, excited about it. We've been fortunate, you know, we don't have that franchise because we have smaller properties and it's worked out well. Well, and I appreciate that. And obviously we're, we're, we're putting a lot of trust in that. Um, so. My office is right across the street. Okay. Um, well, I've got to save this one for a comment. Um, so just, this is back, back to the parking. Um, there, the distinction, I'm assuming that all the spaces will be paid parking, correct? And the reason I ask that is, is this really a follow on to Commissioner Gauss, basically the allocation of the parking spaces. Yeah. I think the way the parking is going to work and, and you know, let's be real Monday through Thursday, there's parking. You could find parking anywhere in Dunedin. Really. We're talking about the weekends. And again, the, the priority is to bring people to the downtown. It's not to make a garage where you're making money off the garage. That's not why we're doing this. You're, you're looking to make it affordable. It will be paid parking. I don't have the luxury of making it all free. But I think there's going to be ways that we're going to be able to mitigate it. And, you know, we're going to invite the, the business owners in the downtown, the restaurants and all this, start a validation pro, a program where if people go dine there, you know, they may be willing to cover a reduced parking fee of some sort. So again, we're going to get creative. We're going to try to see how we can make this as least impactful for the consumer. Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah. I think one of the things to keep in mind too, why I like it that Bill's office will be there. It'll be local. Things are very fluid. You know, things are going to continue to evolve over time. Get up again. Yeah. Well, last time I'm not, I'm still, I still have questions. Actually, this one's for the traffic engineer. Oh, and this is my last question too. So how do you, how do you determine those capacities for the main street and for Douglas? Uh, those are the, um, state DOT creates those. They have tables that they update about two years. Pinellas County has adopted the same ones and they're your, um, I think they call it the vision plan now in Pinellas County. It's not called the MPO anymore. So they're, they're Florida statewide capacity numbers and they're different for different types of streets. Okay. You know, bigger roads have higher capacities. They, it varies, but it's a, a statewide average and somewhat a national number too. Uh, I have no further questions. Thank you. Commissioner Sandberg. Bill, I'm so sorry to do it. That's, they're all, man, you got your steps in. You know, it, it, it, it, it's, it's interesting because, uh, all the years I sat on the LPA, this is a fourth time that I've worked on that address. So let, so some of my questions are going to revert back to, uh, prior, uh, attempts at this. Um, in the last couple of years, we've gained some hotels downtown. Have you done your homework on occupancy and, uh, what you think that hotel can produce and how it will perform? Uh, yes, we, we hired, uh, I don't know if you've heard of the consultant rev part international. They do a lot of feasibility studies for hotels. And when the idea came up that this should be a boutique hotel, the first thing we did was hire a consultant. They came in and are, so our, like I said, we have multiple consultants, the consultants for the overall project with the food hall and the theater and all that, they were the ones that came back and said, we're sorry to tell you, but this really should be a boutique hotel. Okay. We then hired specific consultants for the hotel who also came back and they said, listen, the product that you're going to be bringing is a different product. It doesn't exist right now. We foresee you having occupancies and, you know, 70% and, uh, you know, you're, you're orienting this towards families. So there's definitely the demand for it. Okay. In these units, 89 units, and you keep referring to it as boutique. So I'm going to assume there's no cooking facilities in those units. Um, there's kitchenettes, like in all new hotels, they have like the kitchenettes in them and, you know, the sitting area, the lounge and all that. So we do have a mix of rooms, the rooms, uh, that are up to 600 square feet. That will be a, a king size bed or like a double queen that will have a living, uh, room with a kitchenette attached to it, but it's not going to be full cooking. Okay. Cause I usually microwave and things like that. Cause I know all the, the restaurant owners in the north and the south and east and the west. And I don't want to see you come to town and, you know, the folks check in and just stay. Have you anticipated what flag is going to be on that hotel? Will it be a Marriott or a Hilton or how will you flag that? I can tell you that ever since it's gone public, I've gotten calls by almost every major franchise, um, you know, wanting to put their flag on it. Okay. We're going to do our diligence. We're going to be careful with the company that we will end up going with is going to be the one that is going to be able to give us the best results, the best occupancies. You know, with your office across the street, you're obviously there. You see how that road backs up. Um, if I'm going to check into the hotel, I'm coming south on Douglas. I'm going to take a right and turn in. I drop off my car for the valet. It that's a tough spot to get back out. I think commissioner Dugard mentioned there is an island where your valet is going to try and pull out and make a left. He has to go across that pedestrian sidewalk and merge back in to go north on Douglas. You think that's really, I mean, is, do you think that can work realistically on a Friday night? You go down there and see the bikes and the pedestrians? Well, I thought the islands were, we were talking about maybe taking out. Are they coming out? Yeah. Excuse me. We're going to take out one of the islands. The one island that's closest to the intersection with the palm trees will stay, but the other island will come out. Okay. So that will work with. That will work. Okay. Okay. Um, the whole, the hotel amenities are they on the roof? Yes. Did I hear it? Will that be available to the public or will that be just for your residents? Well, so our, our roof deck will be open to the public. Okay. The actual pool and facilities that will be for the resident, for the hotel guests. Okay. Okay. There's not a lot of room down there. You gotta, you know, we're going to try to make this work because we don't want to upset all the neighbors down there. Where are you going to stage the construction workers and the materials to begin the construction? What are your thoughts of how we can make this pain as seamless as possible? Well, great question. And we actually were meeting with contractors having this discussion. Okay. We're very aware that the site is tight and you know, we're going to do whatever it takes. So the idea, you know, Douglas parking center will get built. Uh, of course that's going to be precast. Yeah. They're going to truck it all in. Uh, we're going to have to coordinate with the city and, and work closely with the city. Yeah. I was just going to say the Orison, you know, obviously another large project that was able to do it without too much impact. So I imagine that, uh, you know, where the, it looks like there was a pull off for the bus to get off of Douglas. Cause right now, if you get caught behind the trolley down there or the bus, it becomes a long ride. So when the supplies, the deliveries to the hotel, to the, to the, to the tenants, will there be some kind of a plan that we can get that truck, get that truck off of Douglas? Yeah. Deliveries are going to be on Monroe on Monroe. Okay. None of them, none of them. We studied that very carefully and we actually designed a, a, a, a very good, uh, delivery area where we can stage a two V to a big semi trailer and another van next to it. So we could have, uh, you know, two, two trucks simultaneously delivering. Okay. Because if you look at Douglas this time, especially this time of the year where everything's going, it's like an obstacle course and they'll just stop right there. And, and the traffic, you know, I've seen it backed up back to the stadium. Well, I guess I'm privileged that I had to be the one that designed it in the product, in the, in the project, because most everywhere else you go, they stop in the middle of the street and you get stuck. So I totally understand that. And that's why we, we designed that into the project. My last thing, I just want a little bit of explanation for the safety of these valets. So I pull in, I leave my car. I mean, are they, you communicate via radio or is it just, Hey, Steve needs his car off the guy runs. How can, how can, how can I feel good that we're going to be safe? You know, it's, there's traffic at Monroe and Douglas that they're going to be crossing. I mean, there's trip hazards in that area. And, you know, we got, you know, we gotta, we gotta be careful and make sure. How do you run a valet like that? The companies that do this, they're professionals. Okay. I mean, the, it's not, this isn't the first valet service or parking, you know, garage that operates. Right. They know what they're doing. And of course we're going to align ourselves. We're going to hire the right company that's going to manage that. Good. Tomorrow. Well, yeah, I was going to, we'll come to that during, I heard what you said. That's all I had, Mayor. So there is a well-marked tripping hazard along there. And it's marked because I broke my wrist on it. So anyway, I'm just going to pick up where you left off though. One of my first, I watched LPA and, and I think my first comment, lots of cars. But I was trying to picture all this, lots more cars, more people. And, you know, we had the experience at the Fenway and it's, you know, it's, it's, right now it's kind of quiet, but for awhile cars were racing down the side roads, the neighborhoods, the, you know, the people, the guys are running as fast as they can possibly run, which on Douglas, I'm picturing like, you know, running through, through the Sonder Club, you know, where the seats are. And, you know, I'm just trying to picture the chaos. And so help me out to not be afraid of that because I can tell you one thing, the traffic and the congestion on that one street is what will scare our residents. You know, that that's just going to be overwhelming. Okay. And that, that's a valid concern. I mean, I've heard that at plenty of, you know, meetings and neighborhood groups in the past. And, you know, there's a lot of valet that goes on in St. Pete Beach. I've worked on several hotels down there and it's, it's really about the control from the valet company and, and your local law enforcement. I mean, the speeding, so the road is 15 miles an hour. Okay. So under, I was out there, like I had said earlier, several times and not that many cars are speeding, at least from, from my observation. So I think that your local, um, sheriff must have done a good job at keeping that at 15. I mean, Main Street's 15. So, um, the, the, the person on the road at 15 miles an hour, it's not that hard to pull out into a gap, right? Because someone is, is wait, there's a red light at the signal. Traffic's not coming. That's when you can make your left out of the garage. Um, if it's a 45 mile an hour road, it's harder to pull, pull out and make a left turn. So I think the lower speed is, is it, it helps. Um, obviously there'll have to be enforcement, whether it's through law enforcement or the enforcement from the valet company. Um, but you know, the, the volumes that we've anticipated coming out with the amount of traffic on, on Douglas, northbound and southbound, um, other than people not obeying traffic laws, we, we don't see there to be a big safety issue. Well, let me add to that. So you have a big event. What is it? 250 seats in the, okay. So you have a big event, 250 people, 250 cars. And you know how that goes, right? Where boom, boom, boom. Everybody wants to get out. How do you, how do you deal with that? Well, the way they're usually managed is you're not going to get out 250 people in a, in a very fast period of time. But you know, 250, um, event of 250, if everyone's going to leave at the same time there, there's not likely to be 250 cars. Generally there's two people, a car. I mean, depending on the event, sometimes there's three. So, you know, it's just going to have to be managed. There's only so many valet drivers that can bring the cars in. So underneath they're staging for a minimum of, I think, 14 cars underneath the area. So when those drivers, when those 14 valet operators, let's just say there's 14 for discussion. Okay. When they drop off, the people exit. Now they're going to go left or right, right? They're going home, whichever way they live. They take, they go back up to the garage, whether they walk or they take another car. Maybe someone's coming into the hotel at 10 o'clock when the event let out. So they drop off the car and then they take the next car back. So it's just going to be a delay like anywhere there would be valet. If you want to get the first valet out, you're leaving early, I guess. And there's, there's two lanes, one dropping off, one picking up. Yes. Yes. There'll be two, two lanes. So. And there is, um, additional parking. There's 24 spaces in that ground floor area. So when there's really big events, and I discussed this with Bill, um, there'll be changeable message signs that won't let the, the public park in there. You know, the regular customers on that day, they'll be deferred to the, the, the main garage entrance. And so we can have those extra 24 spaces as staging for the valet operation, knowing that if an event is getting out at 10 o'clock, let's go ahead and get 24 cars back here for the guys that told me. I have my car ready, you know, and so that's kind of a head start also. So, um, I, I'm trying not to laugh while I tell you this, because I think we've all seen the commercial where the guys, I don't know, taking a food order to somebody jumping over chairs. I just picture that with the valets running down Douglas and, you know, just running past all the shops and the people sitting down having a drink. And they're, you know, I mean, because we know how valet guys are. I mean, they are racing to get the next car and get it back. So, um, I mean, how do you handle that? I guess that's just training them. How did you solve the problem at the Fenway? Were there valet guys getting like, was it through enforcement? Well, they didn't have things to jump over. I mean, you know, you've got the walkways to go down Douglas because they can't really run down the middle of the street. Right. So they're going to have to walk, they're going to have to run where a lot of people are and where there's outdoor eating and drinking and things like that. So I'm just trying to picture how to control that. And in their case, they, it was more, they were running down the neighborhood streets, but then they were racing back. But I don't picture the running of the people as much of an issue as in this case, they got to run down an active sidewalk. Right. And they could also use the trail. I did say that. That was not meant as tongue in cheek because that garage seamlessly integrates to the trail and has multiple pedestrian and bicyclists entryway into the garage and bicycle parking and also golf cart parking in the garage. So I could see a seasoned valet company figuring out a pathway to have the valet egress onto the trail, run down, come over on Monroe, and then get back onto Douglas in front of the Main Street Exchange. So I think it's definitely feasible. There's a lot going on there. And, you know, that's a little of the worry. There's a lot going on there. I mean, the project scene is amazing, but there's a lot going on there and that's my biggest, biggest, biggest worry. Let me ask you, Bob, the current – we only currently have one crosswalk on that road, right? On Douglas. On Douglas. Yes, that's correct. We are still looking at the one in Monroe. I almost think – aren't you going to almost have to have another crosswalk? I mean, going back to what Commissioner Gao is saying, you know, if we're going to have all that activity there, you know, how do we basically make sure we're still prioritizing pedestrians? The walkability, yep. No, we are looking at another crosswalk there. We did design it. We're looking to tie it in with the Main Street Streetscape project that we're looking to do from the – from the Capfail Fresco to the trail to Broadway. And we're looking to tie it in with that. Is the flashing mechanism working that well in front of Artisan? Because I get some complaints that the walkway doesn't really show up as much as it should. Well, it's more as a nighttime activity. Right, meaning at nighttime. And what we're seeing is some people aren't always hitting the button too, kind of what we had a little bit with the situation with the trail over on Skinner. But – I was actually – if I may, Mayor, I was actually driving down Douglas last night on my way back from an event. And I asked somebody who crossed. They didn't turn it on. I asked them to turn it on when they got across. And it was bright. Was it good? At night. Okay, good. You need to look at it during the day. Okay. Well, I got some feedback out of Artisan about that. So I just wanted to make sure we're thinking about that. Sure. So let me ask staff. So I asked a question – I think it was when I was running for mayor, so it would have been like two years ago probably. So the question had to do with kind of smart timing of that light at the intersection of Maine and Douglas. I don't even remember who I asked this to because it was a question I got asked at one of my socials. And actually somebody in your neighborhood, Commissioner Sandberg, I'm going to ask it. And the answer I got back was, well, it's kind of an old system. We won't get into updating it at this point until a new project comes into play at this site. So do you know what I'm talking about and what would that mean to that intersection and that traffic signal? And how we realign? No, I do a little bit. And Jorge can speak a little bit too, perhaps. But my understanding is that the cabinet is dated. It doesn't have all the technology aspect that it needs. But when this project comes in, they need to locate a new cabinet that's a little larger than what's there today. And there's plenty of room. And that would have the technology to do a little bit more of that signal timing. And that the county controls it, I think. Unless it's different, Jorge. Obviously it's a little bit more engineering. My understanding the county controls that. Is that our cost or developer's cost? Developer's cost. Huh? Good evening, Mayor. Jorge Quintas, Deputy City Manager. What Bob is referencing, and this goes back to the prior development that didn't. Jorge. I'm sorry. Have you been sworn? Right there. That was funny, Jorge. Thank you. Yes, I did. Let me try that again. So again, what Bob's referencing, and that came up during the prior design for the development that didn't proceed. But the county will require as a part of this development that that signal cabinet be upgraded. And it actually needs to be incorporated into the side along Douglas such that it meets what's called arc flash requirements, which is the space necessary for an operator to open the cabinet and not have impact to the sidewalk behind them. But the current signal box is outdated. So the new cabinetry, the equipment and components inside the cabinet will be upgraded. But that's something they need to work with Pinellas County on directly. And actually, Tom Washburn was involved in those development plans during the infrastructure phase. So as George mentioned, once you move past design review and they get into the infrastructure phase, that's, you know, the devil's in the details. That's where that part. And speaking of devil in the detail, could you pull up the intersection of Maine and Douglas, the picture that we have in the rendering? Right there. Well, we have it in our packet. I am, and I see no box whatsoever. So, you know, and it's really part of my question too is, for me, what do I, what I see is what I get, and so now I don't, I'm not even seeing the existing box, let alone a bigger box. So, in the previous design, the wall that runs along Douglas that was part of that development was actually stepped back in and the cabinet sat inside that. So, if you looked north along Douglas on that side of the sidewalk, you wouldn't see it. You'd actually have to walk up, stand, and look over and the cabinet was recessed. Is there a rendering that shows me what you're talking about? Yeah, this doesn't quite clearly show it. What's out there today is, it's on a little bit of a pole, and it's a smaller box. And what needs to be replaced is probably, Jorge probably knows dimensions, but I don't think about a three-by-three kind of traffic control cabinet. I get you, but I remember this was a big issue for one of the things that we used to, that when we went to improve one of these in the past, it was a big issue about how that thing had room and didn't look like a monstrosity in the middle of the intersection. Yeah. That's just a big deal. It's not a little deal. No. To see how it's going to fit into it. Yeah, it needs to be incorporated into the architecture. Well, I think two things, if I may. There's enough room to pull it back. And, you know, those wraps that we did in the other cabinets, I'm sure we could do kind of a historical wrap there, too, around that cabinet and make it look good. But the building is pulled back quite a bit, so there's room out there for that that wouldn't impede the pedestrians. And, you know, you get what I'm saying. Trust me. Totally understand. I've lived in Dunedin 40 years. It's always about don't mess up our charm. And, you know, giant extra big traffic boxes fitting into a beautiful aesthetic thing and it's not shown is important to show it. And I'm not suggesting you didn't. We show it in all of our renders. Right. I don't know what's existing and it actually looks fine. That's what's there currently, right? Yeah, it's there currently. If you look at the video, if you put the video in play. Yeah, it'll have to be replaced by a cabinet and stuff. Why? It looks good. And all I'm suggesting for the second reading is we get a better visual of what that might look like because what's really going to be there. Well, I had... Yeah, Jorge probably knows a little more about that. Yeah, interesting though, I was across the street when I noticed Pinellas County was out servicing the box. And of course, because it's on the property, you know, I mean on the sidewalk, I approached the technician and I started asking him some questions about the box. And he was telling me, he says, you know, if you go one intersection west, he goes, you're going to see exactly what you could get over here. And he says, but here, there's actually less being done in this box because all it's doing is turning the signal and the walkway. He goes, this could actually get reduced and be smaller. And I said, oh, that's interesting. Which is great, yeah. And I said, so does that exist? And he says, yes, it does. He goes, it's smaller, it's lower. He goes, and usually they put some landscaping around it. And Bill, this isn't much for you. You want it to look good after you're putting all this money into it. So, but I just, you know, I want to make sure we're, what we see is what we get. Oh, I agree. We'll get you something. Yeah. George can do it before and after, but I think the other thing I looked at, well, you know, if you do look at the one to the west, they have those, they have those, Mayor, the historical wraps on it. You know, I think that's another opportunity to make it, I agree with you. So if we could just see how that flows. Yeah. Because it was, and then Commissioner Sandbergen remembers that was a huge issue. Um, okay. I got bits and pieces everywhere, guys. So this question, I guess, is for Bill. Sorry. I'm not picking on you. What's your expectation about the people that are going to come, park, and never touch their car, and try to walk everywhere in downtown? I mean, I don't mean never touch their car. They're probably going to go to Cala DC or something. But have you done any thinking about that? I mean, in ways that you can incentivize that people bring their car and they just use walkable Dunedin and don't use their car a lot, which of course helps the traffic. I'm not, I'm not, yeah, I'm not quite. We're talking about the hotel guests. Okay. Well, uh, listen, that's what we're, we're hoping they do. We're hoping they come and they park their vehicle and literally they're going to take bikes and go around town. I mean, that's going to be an amenity that we're going to offer as bikes. Um, golf carts. We see it that, you know, they're coming here and we want them to enjoy what Dunedin has to offer. They're getting in their car leaving Dunedin. So yeah, we're going to be, it's going to be very, we're going to be selling an experience and that's where the hospitality background comes in. Yeah. I think that's actually going to happen a lot. That's kind of why I ask you because I think that will help the situation. So, um, you might as well stay put. Um, so I love that you thought ahead because one of the questions I had, um, originally said to when I saw that the parking garage was going, um, and realizing it was downtown industrial that you're thinking ahead because, you know, it just makes no sense not to have shops there. Are you going to do shops on Douglas and by the trail? No, just Douglas. And you don't think the trail would be good too? You know, when we kind of be a cool place. Yeah. We, we looked at it and you do have a little bit of an elevation difference. I mean, we have a ramp that you're actually going down to the, to the trail. People don't realize it, but there was an elevation difference there. So we're just going to have it on Dunedin. I mean, on, on Douglas and the back is going to be used for, uh, service. Right. Well, I mean, it's, it's actually great that you are actually already positioned yourself to have the spots for that kind of retail. Will it be retail or restaurants or both? Again, we're doing a community survey and we're waiting. We want to hear from the community. We really do. It's not what we want it to be. It's really what the community sees it being. And that's what makes a successful space is when you give what the community wants, it's going to be successful. So we have some ideas. I mean, it's interesting. We're getting the first trickle in of the survey, but until we get a few hundred more respondents, we're, we're not going to come to assumptions of what it needs to be. So I know you've done some things on Facebook to get reaction. And of course it's been in the beacon. Um, so what are you hearing? I mean, obviously I've always said, and I'll say it again, whatever went in there was going to feel like a lot for Dunedin residents. And we'll probably, you know, not be liked about that. Um, um, we're just trying to balance it. But what are you hearing? The good and what are you hearing? That's the best thing you're hearing. And then the worst thing you're hearing. I'll be honest before the LPA meeting. Uh, I think there was a lot of confusion. What we were seeing was, you know, like a, a 45% positive 35% not really knowing, asking more questions. And there was like a, a 15 to 20% that was just, you know, opposed since the LPA meeting, since the landing page, since answering a lot of these questions, I think that it's gone to about 70% positive. I think a lot of people got the questions they wanted to hear. And again, the community really needs to understand that this is going to be charming. This isn't going to change Dunedin. It's actually going to enhance Dunedin. And I think that, you know, the, when you look, when, when everyone's looking at it, you know, everyone looks at the bass and they're saying, Oh my God, you know, look at it. I mean, the code is saying you can do three stories. The fact that we pushed the fourth story back and you don't even see it, that, that should be something that should looked at positive, be looked at positively. It doesn't matter. This is a difficult site. It doesn't matter who's going to be developing it. They're going to come under the microscope and people are going to pick it apart. Are we going to be able to satisfy everybody? No, but we do, we have seen since the landing page, it has gone primarily more positive. I do like to remind people that in 2005, they could build eight stories by right at that spot. So it's kind of, it gives a little perspective to it. I can't even imagine that. Um, let's see. Oh, that might be, that might be pretty much it. Um, so, um, I, I guess my only statement is for you guys. I just want to make sure what we see is what we get. You know, the renderings aren't just pretty. They actually are, they are what they are and we're not going to have surprises. That's my biggest comment. No, I understand. You know, I thought, I really liked some of the new, uh, you know, I think that, uh, Mr. Mazis took into consideration some comments that came back from the LPA that the colors were a little bit too bright and didn't, you know, can you tone them down? And of course he, he had mentioned about the software and some of those new pictures he showed today, I thought looked really, really good. So, um, but that, let George comment on that a little bit. Well, I, you know, I was simply going to say we've made some structural changes to make sure that we get the projects that are represented to you guys. So we're internally, we are pulling plans at a certain period to go over and making sure that they're aligning with what you're approving on the diet. And that, um, I mean, I think I was looking at the right rendering of the, the trail side and it looks pretty nice. And so there's a lot of greenery and things like that. Is that, that's what it's going to look like? Yes. And, and our city arborist, you know, has obviously been part of the design review process and has been, uh, fully on board with his comments. Yeah. Cool. And then, um, You know, the one other thing I wanted to mention quickly, mayor on the connections to the trail, you know, obviously we have to work through the county to do that, but we pledged to try and make that interface more appropriate, but we're going to have to work with the county. I mean, I would think that's a good thing to interface a little bit more than just one access area. That's, that's kind of surprising. Yeah. Um, I'm sure they're afraid of it, but I think this is exactly why there should be interface would be a great thing. Um, so, um, just to end on a good note though, um, Bill, will there be pina coladas on the rooftop? Yes, there will be. Okay. Okay. All right. I think we've hit the time for, um, any public wishing to speak. So, does anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Name and address for the record in three minutes. Dale. Me again. That's okay. Bob, you said this is- You do have to give your name and address again for the record though. Sorry. It makes me a little nervous. But, you know, what we've heard here tonight, and I apologize for not having a suit. Dale, I need, I do need your name and address for the record one more time. Okay. Sorry. Joe Palcoxie, Broadway and Albert. Thank you. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. We've been listening here for the last two and a half hours about what we see about the traffic, what's going to be happening with the most sensitive piece of real estate in historic Dunedin. This is a very sensitive situation and you five people have a real responsible decision to be made as we move forward. But one thing we haven't talked about that I think is very important is what's not seen. Okay. When you talk about 80 bedrooms or 89 bedrooms, hotel units, you talk about retail space, restaurants, theaters, the impact that's going to be on that 1.78 acres is significant. What about the infrastructure? What about the sewer line that serves that property? What about the availability of water to adequately protect that structure and protect the public? What I'm interested in is what the capacity is of the infrastructure in downtown Dunedin. And what the reserve capacity of that infrastructure is. Because the reserve capacity is property of the residents and the taxpayer. And my concern is the impact fees and the impact that's going to have on that 1.78 acres is going to be much more significant in what's there now. And my concern is that when this is finished and when this is under full occupancy, what's the effect it's going to have on the infrastructure of all the other businesses that are sharing in the value of hauling away the poop? Who's going to pay? Who's going to pay for the added infrastructure improvements after this project goes in and sucks everything dry? And we'll respond to some of those things after all of the comments, but you need to wrap up. Okay. What I'd like to do is I'd like to meet with George and I'd like to go over the impacts of the water and sewer impacts of what we've got going on here. I think it's utmost important. Okay. Thank you. And it should not be overlooked. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else wish to come forward and speak on this item? Okay. Mr. McHale, name and address for the record in three minutes. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission and City staff. I'm Alan McHale. I live at 1201 Falcon Drive in Dunedin. And I'm currently the chairman of the Community Redevelopment Agency Advisory Committee. The developer of this project has attended several meetings of the CRA Advisory Committee and made presentations of this project on each occasion. On each occasion, he has taken the comments and the requests and suggestions of that advisory committee and made adjustments accordingly to make it a better project for the downtown area. This project is way overdue and is badly needed to further enhance the downtown area. And let's face it, the ocean optics building that's there right now has been an eyesore for a number of years. This new project will provide the citizens with a building which is aesthetically pleasing to the eye, create opportunities for more bed space, more choices for places to eat, more places for people to shop and provide welcome parking relief which is always beneficial. And it will provide much more needed jobs for those of us who live, work and play in Dunedin. The CRA Advisory Committee on every occasion supported this project wholeheartedly. And I convey that message and ask you to support it as well. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this item? Okay. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Father Bob. Father Bob. Good evening again. It's past my bedtime. Our student. Father Bob Swick and 831 Peggy Ray Drive. I'm speaking on behalf of not myself only, but also for my good colleague Peter. We've been impressed with the design, the impact of culture to this area here that's been desolate for quite some time. I'm very pleased to see that the developer is here on station. He's taken Peter's previous office and he's right on site. He's been, I've listened to him talk before the committee before and he's trying his best to make a positive impact listening to the community at large. I think it's within our reason. I'm particularly impressed with the idea. First, he was talking about a theater, but now he's talking about a more in a broad entertainment capacity within that complex. I see that as an opportunity for local organizations to come forward, including our schools to have some activity there in the future. I see all sorts of positive things. Traffic concerns, we can imagine them to be possibly a deterrent, but I'm not so sure about that because the main flow is east to west, not north to south. So I think that that will work itself out, but the main thing is the units there are very small and that's going to open up a new venue for a lot of small businesses that can't afford larger spaces. That is going to enhance that area of downtown as well. So it's an enhancement more than anything else. And I applaud the detail discussion that's taken place all throughout this period of discussion. So thank you. Thank you, Father Bob. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Charlie, name and address for the record in three minutes. Sure. All right. Thank you, Mayor and commissioners and staff and Amazer and company. I'm Charlie Klein. I live 2045 Jefferson Avenue in Dunedin. All right. So I'm here tonight as a representative of the Dunedin Public Theater Foundation and as a citizen of Dunedin. And the members of the board have watched this project, this progress of this Main Street Exchange for several years. And we did have a meeting with Mr. Mazers and his staff recently and we liked what we saw. The Main Street Exchange is a vibrant multifaceted facility that will help drive and bring life and vitality to the downtown more than we have. And among the amenities is a good sized, much needed multipurpose room with on the second floor facing south. We saw many renderings as you did today. We saw a lot more in a theater capacity and we asked, is that the best use? And we saw the things he put in today with the fashion show, the banquet hall. We always thought it could be a perfect banquet hall, conference rooms. And he's got it set up for quick changes where you could have conference during the day, set it up as a banquet at night. And that doesn't work in a theater setting, but it would work in that multipurpose setting. So we think this space will be well used by all sorts of organizations and is well suited for the quick changes in configuration. The 20 foot ceiling limitations and the scheduling limitations, like he said, he couldn't have three weeks for a production run. That doesn't work well for our professional performing arts theater. But the Main Street Exchange design has a lovely piano bar lounge on the first floor that we could easily fill with activities weekly if we wanted to. I mean, it's a whole separate venue he's got set in there. We also see ourselves renting the exchange hall for some low impact productions that don't need to set up with long runs. So all in all, the Dunedin Public Theater Foundation supports the Main Street Exchange at 830 Douglas as it's presented. We've asked Mr. Mazur to find a new name for the hall besides theater. And he's done that. You heard him pivot away from that. So thank you, Bill. But there's much better uses than to lock it up for theater productions. We look forward to working with, to being one of the organizations that use parts of that exchange on an occasional basis, just as we're using the, we're setting programs at the Fenway, the Scottish American, the Memorial Chapel. And the event tonight is at the chapel was a Dunedin theater production. But we think a 300 seat venue is in Dunedin will be a welcome addition. And all kinds of events and organizations will be using that space. It won't be ours. It won't be our space. We're still looking downtown for a permanent home for our professional theater. And we hope that we'll be able to come up with, narrow it down to a site downtown somewhere that will help add more life and vitality. But we don't see him as competition. We see him. The Main Street Exchange has a wonderful new project that needs to come into place. That's good. Yeah. Okay. And we expect, you know, we hope to use it and we want to support it all the way. So we're glad to see it coming. Thank you, Charlie. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else wish to speak on this issue? I see Ellen. Ready? Come on down. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Good evening, everyone. I am Nancy Ellen Hale. I reside at 509 Ashley Drive here in Dunedin. I can just say one word right now. I am so totally excited about what I've heard tonight that I wish we could just flip a switch and everything would be done. But I really have to say, sincerely, I have been so impressed with how the developers have come in and presented their proposals. I am also very involved on the board with the Dunedin Chamber of Commerce. And their presentations that they made to us were incredibly great. We all took a lot of interest in it. The same thing with, I went back to one of the first presentations over at City Hall. And from day one, I said, these people are sincere. Like has been said tonight, other developers have come in. I've lived here and worked here for 20 years, so I've seen a lot myself. And tonight and, you know, prior to this evening, there was a whole new feeling. And I think a lot of people are feeling the same way tonight. I like the idea of the venue that you described this evening. Having to be able to have 200 to 300 people at one time is terrific. And it can only be a very positive portion of this whole project. The garage, I'm excited about, too. We certainly can, you know, use the parking. And having the retail space, that's a real winning, winning combination. I have really been also impressed with the theater situation, how they've been able to partner together. I'm also involved with the public theater. And I guess I would just think maybe the marquee might have to be removed if that's going to be done. I don't know. That's something that can be brought up at another time. Other than that, I think we've addressed all those situations and concerns, if you want to call it, challenges to the utmost. And I also have other comments, but I believe that they've been addressed. I don't like to repeat because that's not very interesting. But all I can say is you have my support. And I work for Bon Appetit restaurant down the street. And I know my owner is very anxious to be partnering with this developer as well. So that's probably it for me. Thank you. I finished ahead of time, which is very unusual. You're good. That's very good. Anyone else wish to speak on this issue? Okay. We've got Vanessa. Come on down. Name and address for the record. And three minutes. I'm very shy. This is very unusual for me. But I didn't want to regret not speaking. I'm Vanessa Quintas. I live in 401 Finway right here downtown. So I wear many hats. I'm a downtown resident. I work for the chamber. And I used to work for the art center. So three wonderful places. And as a resident, to have this many other options to just walk around. A lot of our shops close early in restaurants. So we do run out of things to do. So as a resident, it's amazing that, you know, we would have an event space, you know, for whatever it's used for. And they are. I know groups that are looking for event space when they can't afford the big places. As a chamber staff, I do membership. I hear from the merchants and restaurants that are struggling. This development project, I mean, it's just going to help everybody. And thank you for the team, the masses team. Amazing. Your presentations, everything. Your green tie, a Scottish tie. That was amazing. That really meant something that you thought, you know, to the Scottish influence. You know, in our town, in our charming town. I've been a resident for four years. I love this town. And this city loves this town. It's amazing. And we're very protective. And I can see that this will be an amazing project that is going to bring a lot of excitement to our downtown. One more thing about being in the chamber. We speak to all the tourists that come, that have no idea. They were in Clearwater. They were in somewhere else. And they say, what do we do? We have a wonderful list. In fact, Alan puts it together of things you can do. But, you know, they run out of things to do. I don't think that will happen now with this project if you approve it. So, thank you. Thank you for all the angles that you consider. Yeah, parking is a problem everywhere. But we also, our great city is going to build a parking lot in a few years. So, that will help too. So, thank you. Can I make it? Thank you, Vanessa. Thank you, Vanessa. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak to this issue? Going, going, gone, gone. Okay. All right. We'll close the public hearing. And I'm going to, anybody have any follow-up questions? Are we good? Good? Okay. One. When you showed us the color palettes, the original and then the alternative. Alternative sounds maybe, maybe not. Is that what you're going to? Yeah. The difference is the architectural elevations look brighter than in real life the facade of the actual painted building is going to look. And so, the purpose of those slides, I don't know if we can pull them up. I think it was slide 12 or 13, George. The purpose was to show you on the left-hand side what the computer image is and on the right-hand side what it will more look like in real life. And that was directly in response to the LPA asking us to do that. Yes, sir. And so those are, so they're the same colors. Just the difference of computer graphics versus? Photo realistic. Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you. Mayor. Sure. It is important for those watching and those in the audience that our Director of Utilities is able to answer the question regarding infrastructure. I agree. And I was going to that. First, I have a question for you. Our garage is proposed to be off of Douglas as well. Correct. Different side of the light. Yes. Have you guys thought about how that could potentially or not impact any, any added burden of how we're just kind of cramming Douglas? It will be considered. Yes. It has been considered? It will be considered. We got the design criteria package right now, so it will be considered as we move. So we'll adjust if there's a negative impact. Yes. We'll adjust. Okay. Got it. Okay. And yes, I totally agree. I think that the residents would certainly want to hear if we're overtaxing our infrastructure, water, sewer, whatever. So. Good evening, everyone. This is Clayton Watkins, Utilities and Engineering Director. I have not been sworn. I was hoping not to talk. Yes, I do. Thank you. No, we have had our engineering staff and our, our wastewater collection staff has had many conversations with the staff. We're not worried about the capacity in, in for pressure wastewater in that area. We have very large, large, large lines in that area. And actually probably our largest collection line is, is in Douglas, so there's no worries. And so, and if there's any needed meeting, you can meet with Dale on. Absolutely. Drilling down in any other questions, so. I know Dale very well, so. Yeah. I gotcha. We got this. Okay. All right. I officially closed the public hearing and I need a motion. So moved. Second. Okay. So I will go to the maker of the motion for final comments. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. You know, I, when I first saw the renderings, it was hard not to get really excited about this because this, this, this fills a void is, it fills a huge void. And the, I, I think, I think what, what the renderings didn't show was the, the level of commitment that, or the level of commitment that you have committed to with this project. You know, occupying the, the former Bon Appetit offices. I, I think that's awesome. Um, I also like the fact that you are conducting your own community survey, because that's going to be very important. important. And I know that I, I, I believe in your vision with regards to the fact that this will, this will definitely, it, it won't, it won't change the downtown dynamic. I think it's going to enhance it. But the initial reaction may be that it's going to change it. And there's just, you know, the, the only thing that, you know, really worries me about this is, is our commitment to small business. And, uh, I, uh, I, I'm, I'm convinced that, uh, with, with your commitment to the downtown and to need in, I, I fully believe that you will commit to those small businesses. Um, and the other thing was, and I, I think this has been really a great, you know, a great collaboration, the feedback that I have gotten from staff and from the organizations that you met with is, is that, you know, you, you really have, have worked with the whole group now at this point. And so the collaborative nature of this has just been incredible. And so I, you know, I personally am very appreciative of that. Um, the other thing, um, is, and I just want to just talk about the event space. We really don't have an event space in here. Didn't even, um, you know, we've got golf club and maybe lucky lobster, but, uh, um, but yeah, I think I, I see the, I see the potential for that. Um, anyway, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm really for, for this, but more importantly, I think my wife is more for it than anybody in this room. It's, it's gonna, it's really gonna bring a dynamic to the need and that, uh, we are, we are, that will fill in the void. So, thank you. That's all. So, I'm sorry. Was that ex parte contact then that you needed to reveal about your wife? Okay. Okay. Final. I'm sorry. I had to do that. Um, final comments, Commissioner Sandbergen. Well, first, uh, someone just sent me a text. It's real. It's 11 o'clock and I'm still up. Well, you know, that's an inside. That's impressive. No, I want to say, I want to say thank you to, uh, like around all the city staff members are still here. You know, it's a, thank you. Sticking with it. Uh, John, good to reconnect with you after all these years, Bill, Brian. Thank you, uh, for everything that you've brought to us. You know, that intersection is just, it needs to be revitalized. It needs to be rejuvenated. Whatever fancy words you want to use. You're going to bring new jobs to Dunedin. This is going to increase our tax base. This is going to be a new center of activity in this town. One thing that really stands out is that you did, and we, we touched on it earlier, is how you tied the trail. You know, we, we, we, we want pedestrians. We want bicycles. You know, an area where they can sit in the shade, patronize the shops, and not just that, that, not just your building, but you're going to bring more people and give them more options when they get here. Uh, you know, like I told you earlier, just half joking. Courtyard one, courtyard two, Sterling. And, uh, I think we finally found a match. Last night I had a talk with a Dunedin resident who actually would, his home would be the closest. I mean, probably less than a hundred feet from your building. And he said something to the effect of, I'm glad we finally found something. And him and I agreed on this. Let's make this happen and let's approve this. And I'm a 100% behind what you guys are doing. And thank you. Okay. Uh, final comments. Um, Commissioner Gow. I feel so bad that I'm not part of the love fest. Um, my, my, my goodness. I, I will say for me, the best part of this project is you have parking for your employees. Thank you for considering your, your employees. That is amazing. It's something that every other business downtown struggles with. And so thank you for doing that. Uh, and yeah, I think, uh, that lot started out as a freedom savings back in the seventies. Freedom federal. Freedom federal. A long time ago. And it was ugly then. It's ugly now. Um, so this, I need it. This is real wonderful. Um, uh, my, my concerns are, and they will remain. And I'm adamant about this. Uh, we are desperate in Dunedin. In Pinellas County, in the state of Florida for affordable housing. And this is an opportunity lost for the, for the community of Dunedin. Downtown is going to be wonderful. All kinds of shops, visitors coming in. That's great. I don't necessarily believe that a, everything that happens in downtown, the residents benefit from. And we've heard that for years and years and years about parking and traffic. And while this is a small project, 89 rooms, I don't know what small, medium and large is. Uh, but it's a, it's, it's an impact on our roads. And when we live in a community that brags and strives to be walkable, adding traffic is counterproductive to that walkability. I, I hope within the architecture of the, the, the landscape architecture, I hope there's shade, right? With climate change, we need more shade. We need to make downtown cool. Um, um, and it would, the comment was made about, um, our thoughts are that another parking garage. Again, that's just adding to more traffic. Um, uh, the idea that the shops are there, that's, that's fabulous. Um, they're adding employees there, but they are hospitality workers. They are service workers. They're lower paid workers. So we know they're not going to live in Dunedin. And so we need to focus on, I, I don't, I, I have a hard time struggling with transient and live work play. And we brag about being live work play and that doesn't involve transient. Uh, this is the second project in a row that is transient. And I just don't know when we are going to start to focus on our housing problem that we have. And that's a huge concern, a huge concern. We've got schools that are closing or going to close down in Dunedin. No panic, but just the concern of, of families can't afford to live in Dunedin. And I, and I have strong concerns on what our community looks like when we don't have families. Um, so anyway, uh, but I am in favor of this. God, get rid of that ugly eyesore. Uh, this is great and it is going to change our downtown. So we need to be prepared for that as well. And nobody likes construction. So we're going to hear that all forever and a day. Um, but thank you. Thank you, mayor. Okay. Commissioner to guard final comments. Thank you, mayor. At one minute till 11 o'clock. Um, I get the last word. I get the last word, at least on this issue. Um, Bob, you cost me 50 cents. You didn't say this checked all the boxes. We had a bet on this. I had how many boxes, how many times you're going to say this checks all the boxes. I went with the Y now. You didn't say it once. I had it ready. I mean, we had, we had, we had all, we had the scorecard and everything all set to go. Oh, that's great. That's great. I meant what I said earlier about my compliments to the team. What a great job. What a really great job. When you think about what could have gone there and what you're proposing, I think you've knocked it out of the park. I think this is an extraordinary, uh, addition to the community. No, it's not perfect. Nothing is. Um, just ask my wife. She'll tell you I'm not perfect. Um, so you can't, you can't strive for being perfect, perfect all the time, but this is as close as I've seen in this spot. So congratulations to you and your team. Clearly I'm in support. We've got a lot of concerns about the, um, construction period, how we're going to get through that. Any way we can find to make that easier, we're going to be happier. Um, but, um, we appreciate your approach to this, your investment in the community. I wish everybody did it as well as you just done it. Thank you, Mayor. I just don't want to be having a glass of wine at midnight and this guy tears by me on on the sidewalk racing to get cars out of the, uh, out of the garage. Okay. That's it. Um, but I think I made my point on that one, right, Bill? Um, no, I mean, I obviously, um, I've been in the city 40 years and that old ugly building has been there the whole time. And the only reason I think, you know, we didn't somehow just get a whole bunch of people just to tear it down was cause we had the parking lot in front of it. So we didn't have to look at it right along our main street. And of course, how tall is that building? 48 feet? 41 feet. So, um, so we're already looking at something pretty tall. And, um, I have to say, I think, I think the project looks, looks great. Um, it will seem like a lot to our community. It will. I mean, I, there's been a few words used with me, you know, I won't use them. Uh, but, uh, it will seem like a lot and it'll seem like a lot more during construction. And, um, and we'll just have to keep encouraging people to, you know, just wait. Um, so, um, uh, on that note, I do want to make sure for the second reading, Bart, well, we'll talk about that one. So I just want to make sure we have time to do everything. You know, again, I, you know, heard something about the marquee look in front. Like, is that going to change or what we see is what we get. Uh, I just want to make sure I understand what we're going to get because again, if it doesn't look like that, guess who called, who gets called? It's us. And we're, I'm still getting called about one on the causeway that wasn't quite, you know, followed up on the same, the way it could have been. Um, so I just want to make sure and including the traffic signal, those kinds of things. So you guys tell me if that's doable, um, within, um, what a week, uh, or two weeks, I guess it's two weeks. Um, so, and, and again, I'm just going to repeat for, for citizens. It will seem like a lot. It will seem like a lot to me, you know, compared to our charming downtown with a lot of one story or, or, you know, two stories that aren't really that tall. It will seem like a lot. But again, in 2005, it could have been an eight story building by right. And, and a lot of it is just, it's, it's a balance that is a balance. And, um, and there's things, you know, like the artisan that at the time I wasn't on the commission at that time, but people thought, oh man, that's going to be terrible. And it's beautiful and people love it. And it's four stories. So I think, um, we just need to give it a chance. Uh, and I think it has a tremendous ability to, uh, revitalize and, and add to. And, um, I, I wrote down, it feels like a solid project that's replacing an old, big, ugly building. Um, and there will be fear, but Bill, I have to tell you, I, I get a good feeling that you really are owning it and you want it to be your pride, not just a community pride, but your pride. And I am going to rely on that. And I, I really am. And I'll be over to see you. Yeah. Um, but, and then my last thing is, I'm sorry. Good. I, I do. So that I used to visit Peter there all the time. Um, so, uh, and my last comment, I guess, is just that from a, I'm just going to tag on to what, um, what, uh, Commissioner Grau said. I want to make sure we're looking at this from every angle of pedestrian friendliness because we are loading up that road and we need to make sure that we don't regret it. Um, and it doesn't become something that we look back on as a huge mistake. So just between now and the next reading, make sure you think that through and think about how all this can tie together and can work. And at the same time, making sure we're doing all the things we need to do to make it pedestrian friendly. So people aren't terrified to cross the road. Okay. Um, okay. I think it's a roll call vote. Commissioner Gow. Aye. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Vice Mayor Walker. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Uh, I'd like to address separately, um, staff, if staff, what is staff? What is staff recommending for the second reading? Uh, we, we are okay with the applicant's request for March 5th. And you don't, you feel anything that you need to do is doable and you've got time. I think we can pull it together. We'll have a quick conversation with the applicant either later tonight or tomorrow morning or, well, actually tomorrow, Monday, probably Monday morning. And we'll, we'll work on that and we'll get it done there. Okay. So the second reading would be March 5th. Uh, can I have a motion to that effect? So moved. Second. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. And that motion passes four to one since, uh, Commissioner Gao has stepped out. Okay. Um, congratulations. Mayor, Mayor, very quickly. Yes. I just want to mention, I just want to mention today is Mr. Ironsmith's birthday. Well, happy birthday. Woo! I want to thank him for joining me on his birthday. Well, and I should have known that. And if I may, if I may, because I know I, I was remiss about this. I think somebody else thanked you, but the work that you've put into this, both of you, is fantastic. And I just want to thank you. I know how hard it is to work these deals and to try to get them right and to get all the details right. And so- We have a great team. We have a great team. Yes. Congratulations and happy birthday. Oh, thank you. Okay. And, and Bob, thanks for spending your birthday with us. Yeah. I'm sorry. Thank you for spending your birthday with us. Yeah. We're really sorry. We're really sorry. I know. My wife is only asleep right now. Mayor. Mayor. Mayor. Mayor. Just so you know, it's 11, so you're going to need another- Okay. So, it's after 11, and in order to continue, I need a motion that we're going to be able to continue. Can we continue past the 11 o'clock hour? Second. Second. Okay. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Motion passes four to one since Jeff doesn't get a vote. And, and you all good? Okay. Yeah. Okay. We're, we're going to move on. So, just because we want to get out of here. Otherwise, we'd take a break. So, if everybody could actually go into the lobby, if everybody could go into the lobby, thank you. Unless you're staying for any of the other items, then you can stay, but- Thank you. We're just, we're just hoping to leave soon. Okay. Our next item. I can, I can escape out of that. Where's that? It's next. It's next. That's not there, right? Okay. Applicant has requested that the first hearing for design review application DR 2025-0003 be continued from February 19th until April 2nd at 6 PM at Dunnean City Hall in the commission chambers. And do I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. 3D. After the fact ratification of emergency authorization to increase the purchase order PO amounts to Crowder Golf Joint Ventures Inc. by $1,233,200 and Tetra Tech Inc. by $211,420 respectively to allow work to continue without delay for the grant funded ditch maintenance program NRCS EWP Channel Clearing and Monitoring Project. And I have a brief and brilliant staff presentation. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks. Sue Bartlett, Public Works Director, along with Trevor, I'm sorry, Michelle Monteclaro, Assistant Public Works Director. Clay Watkins, Engineering and Utilities Director. I'm trying to, you know, get this fast. And then Trevor Bacon, which is the Interim Public Service Managers and the APWA West Coast Branch Transportation Professional of the Year. All right. Awesome. Who will be getting his awards soon. So this, we are requesting after the fact ratification of an emergency memo that we put forward to Jennifer when she wasn't here. And then Jorge left and we got less. So he approved the emergency authorization to proceed with the, to continue the ditch clearing that, that you know about this project ongoing. Um, to, so that we wouldn't have any, um, delay or remobilization cost, um, to continue, um, with the grant funded project. Um, we also, the work that was done with Camille and, um, on this whole team. Um, prior to this request was to confirm with, uh, the grantee that we would be able to use the grant funds, um, that, for that project was 4.2 million total. So it was a division and that's why you see an adjustment with the budget. It's just, um, you know, moving it from one project to the other and confirming that we would not be able to finish all the Gabion work in that timeframe. And so that we could go ahead and continue the clearing, um, with that project. And, and, uh, not only that, the grantee is considering giving us more money and extending our time. So, uh, that all is in this packet explained and we have a very brief, um, status update from Trevor. Thank you, Sue. Yep. Uh, thank you all for sticking this out. Good evening. Uh, this is a pretty concise, straightforward update on the project. Um, you see on your screen that this is Curlew Creek. This area was completed before the, uh, additional funds had come through. Um, we'll keep going through the slides. The, uh, eastern half of Curlew Creek and the upper section of Jerry Branch. Um, again, completed before the additional funds. Um, keep going through the slides. Uh, southern section of Jerry Branch, um, completed before the additional funds. Um, this is the very eastern section of Curlew Creek and the northern section of Jerry Branch. Um, this was completed during the request for the additional funds. Crowder Gulf started in November. Um, they continued on through December, took a two week break. About mid-December, they were fully understanding the amount of vegetation that is through this area. I mean, to, to date, they've removed over 23,755 cubic yards of vegetation debris, 444 truckloads. By hand. So in this, I'm sorry? By hand. By hand. By hand. Yep, by hand. Um, you know, traveling through the waterways with their- How many truckloads? I'm sorry? How many truckloads? 444 as of today's report that was sent out. Wow. So that would have been from yesterday that was the most updated. You should say that slower with enthusiasm. That's well done. It is 11 o'clock. He's trying to be brief and growing it. No, I'm brief and growing it. I'm sorry. Okay. Um. He's too tired for all the words. Yeah. He's trying to be brief and growing it. Okay. So they, you know, they, they, you know, approached us and I've, I've stayed in contact with them every day. Um, Crowder Golf has a great rep, Jake. He's, you know, been really good to work with and communicate to. Um, they said, listen, you know, you need to start seeing about what you're going to do with additional, you know, to request some additional funds. Um, we, you know, have an estimate that we are going to be, you know, be coming close to, you know, reaching that, that threshold. So those conversations began. Uh, it was awarded, uh, I believe it was January 30th was the additional funding and they, you know, they trusted us to say, we're working on it. Um, you know, we're having the conversations. We're working with NRCS. Please keep moving forward. This is a much needed project. Um, it's not as pretty as the last one, still necessary. This is necessary and you're just not as pretty. Um, if you want to keep moving through. Uh, so this section of Jerry branch is completed with the green box. So they've gone up from, they entered in there at Laurelwood lane and worked their way to the north and made it to that section. And then at Indian Creek, you see the small box. They've cleaned that area there. We are in the progress of getting some documents, um, put together and handed out to the residents for those areas there that you don't see completed. Poor access. Poor access, correct. Yeah. Yup. Uh, this area is Cedar Creek. Um, this is completed. This is one of the more recently completed sections. They worked on this, um, just this past week, actually. They, um, we worked with communications department, letting people know that, um, our contractor was going to be coming through there. Um, there were going to be some trail closings. Um, they put out a notification on social media. Crowder golf was able to get access through there. They removed most of that by hand as well, just because of the area. They got right through the water walking with waiters, chest waiters. Pushing stuff, roping it out. Uh, next slide. This is Cedar Creek as well. This is channel C. Um, they actually just completed this last week as well. Um, this stretches from the T intersection for channel A going to the south. This actually flows south to north. Um, that took them about four days or so. At any one time, they've had two and upwards of five crews working in different areas. Throughout this entire project. Uh, next slide. This project is yet to be completed. Again, we are getting, uh, documents together for, uh, entry to there. Looking to use Briar circle, um, for access for that area and work their way south. They are currently working on this area. This is the very southern section of Jerry branch. Uh, this area was actually added on, um, from the upper section. Um, right now they put it in at forest drive. They work their way north and they are done with that section already. So if you see on your map at forest drive, they are now going to be working south to where that, that waterway ends and they completed that. They completed that northern section of that in two days. Uh, work, uh, work in progress pictures. This is Jerry branch behind the, uh, discount auto off of five 80. So this is just looking south. Um, you got a mini in the water, a mini on top of the bank and you got a skid steer further to the, in the background of that picture. Um, just their work in progress. The picture on the right is actually the, um, southern bend of that stretch. So if you were to walk the picture on the left, if you were to walk all the way south and made a right turn, that's the picture on the right and that's the, um, after effects. You could not even see that bank on that, on that right side before they provide, you know, provided their work to us. Uh, next slide. So this is Indian Creek. Um, the picture on the right is, and on the left is me standing in one spot turning around. So the picture on the right is what they were able to, um, remove vegetation wise, which you could not see any of that from the road because of how dense and what was laying in the water. And the picture on the left, that is an example. It has still, that still needs to be removed. Um, that is still currently there, but that is, that is what they're coming across in many parts of these waterways. And that's why this project is so important to have gotten done. And, um, so that is a pretty concise update on this channel clearing project. Um, if there's any questions. So, um, can we get a copy of this? Cause I don't think that's in our packet, right? No, it is not. Yeah. Can we get a copy? Sure. If there's any detailed question, people can ask them offline or we can bring it back during a work session. Um, so that's, that's a hint. Yeah. Not that we don't want to go too far down this road. Uh, but any questions, um, vice mayor? Uh, no, I just want to say that, man, what a massive project. This looks to be, I know it has a comment, but. No, it's okay. We're, we're late. I'm just trying to get Steve home to bed. That's all. That's amazing. Record breaking. Record breaking. Some of that I, I, I noticed in Greenbrier. Some of that almost looks like that would have been, uh, unincorporated county. We, did we do anything in the county? Or was that all city of Dunedin? Uh, Greenbrier. So that's Indigo drive. Yeah. That's through there through Greenbrier. That is, uh, Jerry Lake property. So that is now owned by city of Dunedin. So that's ours. Yep. Okay. It was incorporated. Yeah. It was. So be careful what you buy, right? It is unincorporated, but then since the city partnered with the county and purchased that, yeah. Good. Thanks, Trevor. Awesome. Uh, uh, Commissioner Gow. Nothing. Okay. Try to get Steve to bed. Commissioner Degard. Commissioner Degard. Well done. All reimbursable. All reimbursable. We know we've had a lot of positives or negatives, depending on where they lived. But, um, Trevor's done a great job making sure that we're getting access and that we're getting everything done that we can. We're all reimbursable. Yep. Okay. Got it. Okay. Um, so, uh, just, uh, anybody have any final comments? I'll, you kind of said one, but go ahead. No, I'm, I'm good. Great job. No, I'm good. Well done. Oh, I don't, I didn't forget. Okay. Yeah. Very well done. Great. Very thorough. I do need to open it up for the public. Anyone in the public wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one, no one, I will close public input. I will ask for a motion. So moved. Second. Okay. Okay. Michelle. Michelle. All in favor. Aye. Okay. Proposed agenda for the March 5th, 2026 commission meeting. Do we need anything added or anything, Michelle? We're good. Nothing to add. All moved. So moved. Second. All in favor. Aye. Passes unanimously. Okay. Now we go to the proposed March 3rd workshop. Only one thing to add to that, Mayor, and that is the procurement month proclamation. Okay. Okay. And three's our limit. Okay. Sounds good. Mayor, one thing too. I just want to note for item 2A, the attorney called to my attention. It's a remastered plan update. It's not for approval. It's for review and discussion. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, let's get that offer there then. Yeah. Very good. Good catch, city attorney, for this late hour. Okay. Okay. All in favor of the agenda? Well, motion and I need a motion. So moved. Second. All in favor? We don't need a motion. You don't need a motion. Okay. Aye. Aye. Yeah. It's just as easy to just do it. Okay. Commission discussion and comments. Commissioner Gao. It's late. Okay. Although I will be attending DCO the first time in 15 months. Yeah. That's right. Yay. Very good. And Commissioner Dugard. Well, we're going to go right over there from here. I just want to remind a couple of folks that this is the 10th year anniversary for HANU. They're celebrating this weekend. It's a big deal. Social connection survey will be shared with the Committee on Aging in nine days. And then we'll be sharing it here. Thank you. Okay. Vice Mayor. Yeah. I just want to say I'm giving the city update at DCO tomorrow. And that's like six hours from now. I'm sure it's going to be amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else? No, that's it. Okay. Commissioner Sandberg. I'm flicked, so I may not see you until nine. No. I've been working on every day, trying to organize the Toronto trip. Everything's still tentative. But I'm going to push that thing until we get it done quick. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. And my only comments is I will be late for DCO because I have a 7.35 a.m. news talk radio in Toronto interviewing me about the Blue Jays. But I'll come. Yeah. Okay. But I'll come. I'll just be there a little late. So I'll have Blue Jays gear on too. And also, congratulations to everybody involved with the Mardi Gras. I mean, the place was packed and, you know, it was a great night and great party. And Blue Jays opening day is Saturday. So other than that, let's see. So we got city clerk's update, city manager's update. Nothing new. City attorney's update. Nothing new. Okay. And if there, unless anyone wants to go longer, for the good of the order, meeting adjourned.