COMMISSION WORKSHOP - Feb 03, 2026

We call this meeting to order, February 3rd, 2026, City Commission Workshop, and we'll start with Jen with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, our first item on the agenda is a presentation by Pinellas County Housing Authority and Flats on Main Street Affordable Housing Project. I will turn it over to Bob and Caroline. Thank you, Mayor and Commission. Bob Ironsmith, Economic Development Director for the City of Dunedin. It's a pleasure today to introduce two folks. We have Neil Brickfield, who's the Executive Director of Pinellas County Housing Authority, and we also have Dave Hayslip, who's putting together the Flats Project there as a developer, Archways. You know, we've really listened to the Commission relative to that affordable housing needs to be a heightened item, so we always take a targeted approach, and we always look at opportunities. And today is one of those days where we think we're really moving in the right direction. The Dunedin Housing Authority, for the last several years, has been managed by the Clearwater Housing Authority, and we wanted to go in a different way. We wanted to go with a housing authority that had a lot of resources, a lot of passion, and this is what Neil Brickfield and the Pinellas County Housing Authority bring. We are looking to make a switch from the Clearwater Housing Authority of management of the Dunedin Housing Authority to the Pinellas County Housing Authority, and what today represents is Neil's going to go ahead and give you a flavor for what they can offer and what they can do. I also want to mention that the Pinellas County Housing Authority brought in $10 million toward the Flats to help activate that project. If you remember with the Flats, it's 78 apartments over there on State Road 580. So we're excited. We're also looking at other opportunities with the Pinellas County Housing Authority today. So we think there's going to be more to come. We're going to certainly work in that vein. As you know, affordable housing is tough these days. Real estate is high. It always takes a lot of effort, a lot of resources, a lot of partnership to get to where you need to get to. But today, Neil's going to go ahead and go ahead and share some slides and talk to you a little bit about what they offer. And they're doing affordable housing projects across the county, and they also offer some different opportunities. What we want to do is make sure that our residents and new residents have the ability to live in the city, right, because we hear it in our travels. Of course, when I'm with Jennifer, we hear it a lot from our city employees and from other outside interests too. So without further ado, let me go ahead and have the Executive Director, Neil, come up to the mic for the Pinellas County Housing Authority. And we're going to go ahead. He's going to talk a little bit, and we're going to go ahead and advance some slides in concert with his presentation. Hi, Neil. Good morning, Mayor, Commissioners. Thanks for having us here today. And thank you for being such champions for affordable housing in Dunedin. 5-0, thank you. But we don't keep score. Very important, though. So we're really excited to be taking part in Dunedin. We've actually been in Dunedin since the early 1970s, where the owners of Palm Lake Village, 475 affordable senior housing units right off of Keene Road. We're really excited. You're going to hear about Flats on Main again. That would be our second project here in this community. And I want to tell you a little bit about housing authorities and a little bit about us. So next slide. That's the clue. We're very much a mission and valued organization. So I don't need the slide. I know this. Our mission is to provide quality, affordable housing and improve the lives of residents. Our value statement is PCHA wants to set the standard for affordable housing in Pinellas County. And our belief is everybody deserves a quality place to live. And we have our four core values in integrity, cultural learning, embracing, innovation, and accountability. And I want you to know there's a reason we have this right up front. They're not just words. These are living and breathing items. So if you're one of the 85 people that work for the Housing Authority and you see me coming, you already know I'm going to ask you what's our mission or values. And you're going to know them, right? Because we want to make sure when our employees get up, just like we did, and make ourselves look real nice and get in the car and it was cold out and they get to work. Why? Because we're going to provide quality, affordable housing and improve the lives of residents. And then our core values are what we're going to make all our decisions on. We hire based on this. We reward based on this. Sometimes we send people away based on this. But these are our cores. So you can count on when we are making a decision, this is the framework that we're going to work on. Next slide, please. And where we serve. So just a little bit about housing authorities. The big ones, New York, Detroit, Chicago, we're not anything close to that. Seventy-five percent of the 3,500 housing authorities nationwide serve 500 or fewer units or vouchers. You'd be on the small side. Clearwater is kind of in the middle. We're large. We have about 4,000 vouchers and a little over 2,000 units that we serve countywide. The blue ones are what we have built and are operating today. The red ones are the ones in development. Next slide. Okay. I'm going to turn this over to our programs and resident services, to our chief programs officer, Elise Minkoff. An operating officer. Sorry. Hi, Elise. Good morning, Mayor. Commissioners. Thank you for having us up here today. I'm excited to give you an overview of what I am passionate about and why I was lucky enough to be invited to be a part of Pinellas County Housing Authority. Programming. Programming is a passion. And when we enter a new property or we enter a new project, such as the Dunedin Housing Authority, I have my program department go out and do asset mapping of the community. In other words, we look at the zip code that surrounds that particular property that we're serving. We want to know what kind of partnerships are out there in the community that we can secure and partner with and network with to serve our residents. So the first thing that we would do in terms of Dunedin is to do asset mapping. Learn what's out there. Meet with the partners in the neighborhood. We'd also do a survey of the tenants that are currently there. What are their interests? What are their desires? What are their needs in the community? And we would work up programming based upon the partnerships in the community and also the needs that fall out of those tenants. The key thing that we're looking at right now across the county are food resources. And that's one of the key things that we'll be doing asset mapping on. We also provide a robust housing orientation program. And we also work with local lenders to do lender workshops as well. They come in. They help individuals with their credit rating. They help them look at mortgages and how they can advance themselves in the home ownership arena. We're also keenly interested in workforce development. We have an excellent partnership with Evera Healthcare. They're currently on a couple of our properties. They bring their medical mobile out on one of our properties. Another one, they actually have a clinic inside the main office of the property. We intend to partner further with them. They have a great apprentice program and a medical health care program that they can offer for technicians. And they'll provide scholarships. It's a great partnership that can help advance our community in total in terms of health care. We are planning a resource fair for Dunedin. And that will occur this coming spring. We will bring together workforce development, lenders, and, of course, network partners that we identify in the Dunedin area. So we're excited about this opportunity. I have a robust programming staff. And they are hands-on. They do a lot of problem solving. And they make sure that the tenants are taken care of to the very best of their ability. So thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. My chief programs and operations officer is a little bashful. I just want to let you know that when I gave you the mission statement, provide quality, affordable health. You don't have to memorize it. Provide quality, affordable health and improve the lives of residents. Well, that's really new for us, improving the lives of residents. So it's not only the services that we bring or the fairs. And Mr. Ironsmith informed us that we're going to be doing two fairs this year, one on home ownership and one on family self-sufficiency. One, how to get ahead. And one, when you're getting ahead, how to turn that into a home. And if you don't know, the number one way for our participants to get ahead is to go get an education, particularly in the medical field. So we see people's income outgrow the support they need. We've had about every two and a half months we get a graduate. And we've had, I think, nine people go on to be homeowners in a little over two and a half years. So it works when we work with them. Some of the other things we do is this. When we had a recipient and the building they were living in, not ours, had a fire, we got them relocated in less than 24 hours to a safe place to live. When one of our employees was walking through our parking lot about two weeks ago, we meet people there all the time looking for housing. But as he chatted somebody up, after a few minutes he realized this woman was actually living in her car. And we pulled the program, that was the purchasing director, we pulled the program director in. And within a few hours, that lady had a safe place to live, which was not in the car. Now, do we always hit 100%? No. Are we working with these folks to make sure that they have a safe, decent, reliable place to live? Absolutely, right? That's what we provide for a living. One of the other things I want to point out from the first conversation on, Mr. Ironsmith was very clear that anything we did with the Dunedin Housing Authority was going to happen within the city of Dunedin. So, we're very excited that we'll be meeting as a board. Here. Here. So, it's a Dunedin. Not Republic Drive. Here. Evidently, there's some boundary dispute. We're here. No, we want to heighten awareness. We want it here. So, and I think you can tell with Neil, it's a new day. Okay? This is something that's been on my bucket list for a little bit. Obviously, we've had a good relationship with Neil three years. He was a county commissioner for quite some time, and we reconnected, and the one thing that's great about Neil and the Housing Authority is they're doers. This is, they get it done. I think the other thing you get to see is they get the whole wheel. This is holistic. This isn't just one dimension. You're going to look at all the other aspects, too, to go with it. Thanks, Neil. Thank you. And I just want to make sure I confirm this. You guys are interested in more opportunities for affordable housing in the city of Dunedin. Is that right? So, we're looking for opportunities. I have my marching orders, then. Thank you. We're in the midst of doing our due diligence. Right now, this, the interlocal agreement is scheduled to go back to our board on February 18th. And just to make sure everybody's on the same page, a housing authority, Dunedin Housing Authority, is a separate government entity. It's created between the state of Florida and the city of Dunedin, the past commission. But that's why it's an authority. It's a separate organization. Pinellas County Housing Authority, it says county in our name. We're not part of county government. We're an independent government authority. Think like a special district or PSTA, right? Authority. So, we exist. We have to behave ourselves. But we're not directly reporting to you. You appoint all the board members, so you certainly have a say. But we always want to make sure we're aligned. You're looking for opportunities. We're looking for opportunities. You want us serving the residents of Dunedin? We want to serve the residents of Dunedin. One of the nice things, though, that the Housing Authority and Neil have, they have a great partnership with the county, too. So, this is just a much better fit for the city. So, I'm really excited about it. The flats, fantastic. Going to hear a little bit from Dave Hayslip's schedule. But we're going to see more opportunities, and this is what we wanted. And so, I'm very excited today, as you can tell. We've certainly got a passion. Neil has a passion. His whole crew has a passion. So, we can make things happen. So, are we going to go to questions? Sure. Absolutely. Get Neil. You guys, anything else for presentation? That's it. No. I think we're good. I think we're good. Okay. Sounds good. I'll turn to Vice Mayor to start if you have any questions. Thank you, Mayor. Just a point of clarification. The interlocal, who is that with, and how does that work? It's a local agreement. Yeah. It would be between Pinellas County Housing Authority and the Dunedin Housing Authority. Okay. So, it's a management agreement. We're going to do the management day-to-day of the property and the management day-to-day of the housing authority, including the interactions with HUD. If I may add, Vice Mayor, the Dunedin Housing Authority has already taken action to approve, to go toward the Pinellas County Housing Authority. The way that they fund it is through HUD. They get money through Housing Urban Development each year, and that's what pays the management services of, say, the Pinellas County Housing Authority. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, that was the answer I was looking for. Okay. Sure. And then, just in terms of the process, you know, getting the tax credits and all the things associated with that, what involvement does your organization have with that? Well, we partner on that. Yeah. In fact, we're really excited. We were awarded a tax credit for 9% just Friday the 30th, so we're in for our next one. We don't do this alone. We don't self-develop or anything like that. We partner with great people like Dave Heaslip with Archway at Plats on 4th. They're what's called an at-risk developer. There are some guarantees that they carry. We partner together to make these things happen. Yeah. Nobody can do it on their own. Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't have any other questions. Thank you. And it was a great presentation. It filled in a lot of gaps for me. And thank you. It's good. Okay. Questions? Commissioner Sandberg? You used that term opportunities a couple of times. Are you looking, vacant land? What do you mean when you say you're looking for opportunities? Thank you so much for asking. I'm not going to go through this, but you have this on the dais. We're very proud that we currently have approximately 998, no, exactly 998 units countywide under development. So when I came to the Pinellas County Housing Authority three years and ten days ago, roughly, I just had an anniversary. That's how I know it. The board said we want to expand our footprint. We want to be out there. We want somebody who knows the community. So we made it a point to meet with everybody in affordable housing in Pinellas County with the same message. We're open for business, and we want to be out there and doing things. If I may, Commissioner. So we're kind of the eyes and ears to work with the Housing Authority. So, yeah, we look at vacant properties. We look at redevelopment opportunities. So we're kind of out there. So we're already looking at some stuff currently. So, yeah, we're out there. Obviously, the city of Dunedin doesn't have a lot of vacant property. Right. So there's a few that way. But there's also redevelopment opportunities also. So we'll continue to look at that. We need to be of a certain size, certain units. We want to be competitive with going for state application. So that's something we've worked together on. My last thing was from time to time I've had inquiries about Palm Lake. Is it Palm Lake Village? Palm Lake Village, right. Is that on a regular maintenance program, you know, landscaping, painting, renovations? It was just a couple of people made comments that it was starting to maybe show its age. Any input on the Palm Lake Village? Okay. It is showing its age because it was built in 1980. And although I graduated in 1981, I guess I'm showing my age, too. I'm right there with you then, yeah. Our maintenance schedule hasn't changed. The buildings are simply beginning to get tired. Okay. Right. Yeah. That's all. I just said, promise this person I would at least bring it up. Just replace all the roofs. That was costly. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Neil. Okay. Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Neil. Good presentation. Kind of going to piggyback on the same theme on opportunities. And I'm quickly going through what you provided us. And so I haven't really dived deep into it. Other than looking for properties like Flats on Main, which took us a long time to get there, and there maybe sort of might be one other property that we've kind of oscillated back and forth between, depending on the opportunity. But other than that, and Bob, you kind of acknowledged it, that Dunedin's pretty built out. There's not a lot of opportunities for projects or developments like Flats on Main. So other than that, can you expand on just what other opportunities are there for the residents of Dunedin? Certainly. I mean, we're going to look at redevelopment, too. You know, some of their buildings are older, so you could see a situation where the building gets demolished and we do an affordable housing project, so we're certainly looking at that, too. I mean, Dunedin, frankly, is just extremely strong, and you're seeing new development happening on pieces that had properties, right? I'm thinking of the Chase Bank site that is going in. You know, we're seeing a lot of redevelopment opportunities. So we'll continue to look at that. Okay. And is that the only kind of focus is project-oriented? Or apartment buildings that are for sale? Okay. Okay. Just kind of multifamily. Multifamily. Okay. All right. One more question. Well, also, not so much with NEO, but we also have a very strong relationship with Habitat for Humanity, too. And we've done several infill lots, like on the north side of Salon. So we'll continue to look at that opportunity also with Habitat. And this might be not a rabbit hole I'll go down, but since, Bob, you're here, and NEO, you're here, back to redevelopment or project-oriented, right, that we do have an affordable housing crisis. And it's going to take all sorts of housing from ADUs to apartments to multi-use building projects like Flats on Main, but just more development in general on a little more density scale. That's common in Dunedin. So how do we find those? Where do we go with this? And how does all this work? How do residents find the Dunedin Housing Authority or find projects that are available to them? And how do we address all types of needs of housing? Is this kind of a, this is our only approach, and this is what Dunedin is doing to solve? This is a start. You know, I think the flat certainly is going to be on our website. You'll certainly, people will be able to find that pretty quickly. The Housing Authority in El Pinellas County, they'll be able to get some additional information through their website. So I think the media, Facebook, social media, that's where they're going to see different things and different opportunities happen, certainly. Just because we, and I think we all do, we all have residents all the time or visitors all the time that say, or they just moved here, but they moved to Clearwater or Oldsmarge someplace because they couldn't afford Dunedin. And so when I hear that, is there something that I can respond with that says, you know, if they're looking, they haven't purchased yet? I'd say right now, the flats, you know, you're going to have Dave come up here, and certainly they're going to start taking applications. So I think that would be the first measure right there. And then certainly the Housing Authority, different resources and things that they offer, that's where I would go. Is there any opportunity to first-time homeowner programs or things of that nature? Go ahead. Don't kind of fit that multifamily model, but help people get in there. That's part of our fares. One is self-sufficiency. This is what you need to do to get yourself ready. And the other one is, okay, you're just about ready. This is how you cross the threshold into home ownership. Those are the two fares. I should also let you know, PinellasHousing.com, we have a wait list. Well, now we have an interest list. So an interest list, think like a notification list. We're going to notify you when something's coming available. It doesn't get you on the wait list, but you're not searching, right? We're keeping you informed. An example of that was Flats on Main. The wait list will open approximately 90 days before occupancy, but the interest list, you could be on now. So when we know it's going to open on Tuesday, we can tell you, Tuesday morning, be ready. And then the official list is open. Okay, so you communicate with those people on the interest list. We're communicating with people on the interest list, which we just started because we're so tired of telling people, go away, that we wanted another mechanism so they could help. Very good. I expect a couple of thousand people on that list within a few weeks. Very good. Because you're right. People need this. I think that tells you the desire and need we have for affordable housing. Thank you, Mayor, very much. Thank you, Mayor. And thank you, Neil, for being with us today. I appreciate the presentation. I'm one of the newer commissioners, and therefore my questions might be a little more primary. I apologize for that. But I need to understand your funding and governance system a little bit better. Can you share some of that? Sure. We have agreements with HUD, but we are not part of HUD. So our all-in budget is $90 million. Approximately $50 million of that comes from administering HUD agreements. A little bit of public housing. We're almost completely out of public housing. And the bulk of it, $46 million, is the Section 8 voucher program. That arrived yesterday morning. That went out yesterday afternoon. It's not like we get to play with that money. That just passes through. The rest of the money, that's self-generated. So Palm Lake Village or any of the other properties we have, that's very much a business. A housing authority is also a government business. So the rents, that pays our salaries. HUD does it. That pays our salaries. And we have 17 buildings countywide, and all told, that's what all the rent generates minus the expenses. We also have three assisted living facilities. We try to make it a priority that residents in our buildings have a bridge to an assisted living facility. So that's where the money comes from. Great. About half self-generated. Okay. And your governance. Oh, I'm sorry. We have a board of directors. We have five slots, unlike a city housing authority where the commission, the city commission does it. In our case, the governor of the state of Florida, Ron DeSantis, appointed four of our five members. We have one vacancy right now. Okay. Finally, how do you measure performance? How do you measure whether you're doing well or not doing well? Thank you for asking, because every Monday morning, we're on what's called the EOS system, Entrepreneurial Operating System. So every Monday morning at 10 a.m., the senior leadership meets, and after we say our personal best, the professional best for the last week, scorecard. What's our AR? What's our occupancy rate? What's our turnover rate? All of those things we're discussing at 10 o'clock every morning. In addition, you know the federal government doesn't send us $45 million with lots of strings attached. So that's called a CMAP. That's our score of how we're doing public housing and our voucher program. So that will be submitted at the end of this month. Love your answers. One final question then. How secure do you feel your funding is? Because you're basically funded through HUD. I never feel our funding is secure. Okay. We are dealing with the federal government. That's why I inherited it. We set a goal over 20 years ago that we wanted to be financially independent from housing and urban development. So we've run this scenario. If all the federal government money went away, could we survive? We're proud to say yes. Would it be different? Absolutely. Would there be people heard along the way? Sure. Would we as an organization survive and continue on our mission? Yes. So we're not 100% there, but we're on our way there. Excellent answers. Thank you very much, Mayor. You guys ask great questions. Thank you. You weren't ready for that, right? No? Yeah, you were ready for that. You're doing good. A couple questions. So the people that are appointed by the governor, I just pulled it up. Do they live all around Pinellas County, or are they, where do they live? A board? You have to be a resident of Pinellas County and a registered voter, and you have to apply for the same as any other board that the governor is going to appoint, which if you have never filled out that application, it's like 20 pages of your life. I'm just curious if the board is kind of geographically dispersed over Pinellas County, or most of them live in St. Pete, or just curious. All right, two from St. Pete, one from St. Pete Harbor, and one Feather Sound. And then the fifth one is a resident commissioner. We don't have a resident commissioner. It just never meets the governor's high priority list for the day to appoint someone. And Jake Stowers is your director of real estate still? Jake Stowers Jr. is the director of real estate. Oh, I was going to say. Yeah, okay, gotcha. Okay. Okay, so any other plans for Palm Lake Village to enhance it? I'm prepared for this question very carefully. We have had some daydreaming discussions. That's it. So if you're sitting at Palm Lake Village, we're not redeveloping. We're not knocking any building down. Nobody's leaving. All we did is say, what would it look like someday? And that's all we've done. We're just planning for the future. So what is the rent there? Depending on when you moved in, anywhere between $800 and $1,200 a month. Okay. Let's see. So you ran through some numbers. I was just curious. Number of units in Dunedin and number of units in Pinellas County that you have? What were they? Approximately 2,000 units in Pinellas County, 475 in Dunedin, with another 78 on the way. Okay, great. I mean, I guess this is kind of a – well, you can comment on it, so that will make it a question. Obviously, we want something in Dunedin, but obviously, we want affordable housing. So if it's just outside of Dunedin, I mean, it still can fill the same need, even though we prefer it inside. So any thoughts on – how does it open up the ability to get it internally for Dunedin since we're so built out versus just outside of Dunedin? Is it a big difference? Well, funny you say that because when I explained to Archway that we were going to be involved with the Dunedin Housing Authority, his first question is, oh, can we partner? So people are interested in Dunedin. It's a great place to live. But I think the challenge is going to be finding places that can pull this off. That's what we're going to look at. You have to understand the way developers look at things and the way Neil's going to look at it. Since we got the flats, wow, a deal got done. We're going to look at more opportunities. We're now on the radar. We weren't even on the radar before. That's why today is such an important day for us. We're on the radar now with the Housing Authority. We're on the radar with developers. I've already had a couple call me about different properties. So it's excitement. It's a whole new day, which we didn't have before. Great. Okay. Any other questions up here? Are we all? So you're looking for consensus to move forward to bring interlocal to our commission meeting? Okay. Sorry. It's between the two housing authorities. This is really kind of giving up over the direction we're moving in. So it's just if we're going to yell, scream, and say this is horrible, this would be the time? Is that kind of why? Exactly. All right. Cool. All right. Well, on that note, then I will go ahead. We'll just kind of turn to final comments. And within that, you know, your view on going forward with this. So I'll start on this side. Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. No, I am in favor of this. And moving forward, affordable housing is a conversation we need to keep having. So welcome aboard. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. This is God's work, in my opinion. Finding homes for people. God's work. We have one of the most difficult communities for your organization to have to work in. We're high density. We're high cost. And high challenge. Any way we can be of assistance to that, I want to be a part of it. Thank you. Thank you. Vice, Mayor? Final comments? Yes. Thank you, Mayor. You know, I just love the spirit of collaboration amongst the organizations because, you know, and to echo my colleagues' comments, yeah, anything we can do to increase what we're all trying to do here together is just great. And so I'm very much in support of this and look forward to seeing great things in the future. Commissioner Sandberg. Thank you, Mayor. Commissioner Sandberg, 100% support it. Keep up the good work. And we've got good people right here that are working with you. And keep on doing what you're doing. Thank you. Excellent. We can't do it without you guys. It only works if we're all working together. So, you know, I worked with Neil before, Pinellas County. But when I was Director of Health and Human Services, it was interesting because separately through the county, we gave vouchers out for financial assistance for housing. And it was interesting because at one point I asked my staff, so where's the most vouchers go? And it was Dunedin. I couldn't believe it. And it wasn't much a big voucher. So, I mean, I think I'm not sure how struggling the housing was that people were able to get. But I think that that was, I don't know, 15 years ago. And now Dunedin just everything that's anything just gets picked up and renovated and made into something expensive. So, it's just such a need. And, you know, we've got so many workers here that need places to stay. So, I think this is great. I commend you, Bob, for, you know, having this vision to make this happen. Neil, I think you've shown what you can do with working with us on the flats. And so, I am completely behind this. I think it's a great move forward. So, I'm looking forward to see what you guys can do together. That's awesome. So, yeah, I'm in favor. Great. Mayor, if I may close just for a moment. This now has to go back to the Pinellas County Housing Authority Board on February 18th for them to approve the situation as far as the agreement. And then from there, we're kind of off to the races. What I always wanted was the two fairs. I want the meetings held here. I want heightened awareness. We're getting the word out. As I said, this is a new day. It's pretty exciting. So, thank you. And thank you very much. Thank you, Elise, too. Thank you. Okay. Mayor, I wanted to go ahead and bring up Dave Hayslip to give a little bit, just an update on the flats. They're getting ready to close on the property. I definitely want to give some kudos to Jen Cowan and her colleague, Mark Johnson. They've worked very hard on this. As you'll see on Thursday night, instead of a grant, this went into a forgivable loan situation. And it certainly was quite a bit of legal time for Jen and Mark to do. So much appreciated. But I thought it was important today, since this is kind of an affordable housing morning, that we give a little update on the flats. And that's why I wanted Dave to share, when you're going to start, how long the construction, that type of thing. So, Dave, if you will. Go ahead, Dave. Thank you. Hi, Dave Hayslip with Archway Partners. It's great to see you all again. We've made fantastic progress for flats on main. For permit approvals, our site plan approval is ready to be issued by the city. We also have approval from the other major jurisdictions, so SWIFMUD, FDEP, and FDOT. Our building plans are in for review and approval by the city. We received really good feedback so far, so that should be issued hopefully in the next couple weeks. We have a fully executed GC contract with Pike Construction, who is our general contractor on this deal. We have a pre-construction kickoff call this afternoon where we get our consultants and the general contractor on board to discuss timing. Because we're partnered with the Housing Authority, we have to get a HUD approval. We submitted for that approval in August of last year. They take a long time. We did get a response. It was just a clarification question. So hopefully we'll get the HUD approval shortly. That will be required in order to close on the deal. And then we have weekly ongoing closing calls with our lenders, investor representatives from the city, and all the legal folks to wrap up the necessary documents in order to close. So we're pushing for a February closing with the HUD approval and the government shutdown. We might be delayed to March, maybe April. But as soon as we have the HUD approval and the permit from the city, we're ready to go. Okay. Ready for questions? Yes, ma'am. Okay. I'll start over here with Commissioner Gao. Actually, Mayor, I wasn't really prepared for this. I don't have any questions at the time. Okay. Commissioner Degard? Thank you, Mayor. I do have one question to you. I'll start, though, with a compliment. Thank you for bringing your patience, your vision, and your finances to the table to help Dunedin be better. And I'm grateful for that. I'm also aware that, as you are, that several of the neighbors around this project were less than excited about it. And I'm interested in how you're going to be a good neighbor with this development going forward so that when we have another opportunity, that those neighbors are actually advocates for this kind of project. So tell me how you're going to address that issue. Sure. So we're happy to have, you know, ongoing discussions with the neighbors surrounding the development. We also have to, in order to get our site plan approval, we do what's called a silt fence and erosion control. So it helps prevent debris and dust from getting into the neighboring properties. We have pretty strict hours that we'll do construction, so we try not to do anything super early or late at night. Weekends, I believe, are allowed, but we'll try to keep that to a minimum. And then just ongoing communication with them. If they have questions about, you know, what we're doing, stages of construction, we're happy to answer their questions. I particularly like that last answer. Communications with them is going to be critical. And the more constructive you make that and listening sessions, I think we'll all do better as you approach that. Thank you very much, Mayor. Vice Mayor, questions? Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Just real quick, I'm sorry I had to step out for a minute. But you mentioned the government shutdown and the impact to the project. Can you kind of elaborate on that? And I have a reason for asking because I've been basically building a list of impacts not only to the community but to the businesses as a result of this. And I'm just curious from your perspective what's the impact, the direct impact to getting this started? Sure. So with the government shutdown, HUD closes. They continue their payments to the housing authority. But as far as approvals, we can't get the approval unless the government is open and HUD employees are working in the office. Okay, great. Thank you very much. Great, good presentation. Thank you. Commissioner Sandberg, any questions? When this starts, what's the length of construction? 15 months. 15 months from breaking ground? Somebody will be living there? Allow a buffer of, let's say, 18 months. But the GC told us 15. No, it's good, yeah. I know this has come up before. Have you given any thought on how we're going to get those kids to school when there's no school bus service there? We have, that came up during one of the... Yeah, no, we did look, I looked into that. And I know my understanding, it's a two mile. So anything less than two people have to walk. So I don't know... These kids will have to walk to school? Yeah, I mean, that's just, to me, the school policy. That's my understanding when we made the call. I think, Carolyn, you made a call, too. I think we talked about that. Yeah, Carolyn was on that. So nothing's changed? Nothing has changed with the schools, as far as I'm concerned. Some days it's cold, some days it rains. Yeah. Worry about those kids. Okay, so there's nothing that we can do as City Commission. Yeah, we did go up, and Carolyn was very much involved. We did go up the ladder, but it was the same answer each time to us. And that's, I guess, their way. I mean, I also see school closings that are going to occur, and I guess there's the other thing that's just two mile radius. So I think the only thing we can maybe look at is make sure there's some crossing guards involved, you know? Okay. And the last thing, I know it's come up before, and we're asking the citizens of Dunedin to put some skin into this. What are the chances of the first round of rentals being not Dunedin residents? Because that got spun on me a little bit. Folks that are currently employed in the City of Dunedin have right of first refusal as tenants in that building. There's been some recent regulation legislation that's been passed. We're talking with our attorneys, and then we also need approval from Florida Housing in order to do that. But, look, we welcome the city employees, residents of Dunedin, to move into the property. Regardless of how that works out with the legal folks, you guys will be the first to know when we start pre-leasing the development. Well, I know we're going to welcome them, but as a city commission, I'm trying to look out for those folks. It's been brought to us many times. Teachers, you know, I'm sorry. Yeah, I don't know if you can restrict it like that at this point in time. I know what you're looking for. Certainly, I think what Dave is saying, you know, get the first opportunity, get on the list, you'll be the first aware. But I don't think you can just restrict it to the hospital or to the city employee type. I don't think under the current rules and regulations you can do that unless the application was done that way from the very beginning. Yeah, we're still looking into it. If the attorneys in Florida Housing bless it, then we're all for it. Okay, good. That's all I had. Thank you. One more quick. Sure, go ahead. Yeah, so related to this, is there, I mean, in terms of affording or providing the opportunity for our residences and our employees and businesses, perhaps we send out the announcement earlier for them? Yeah, I mean, anybody can, anything I'm getting now as far as an email or something we give to Archways, and they put them on the list right now. Okay. That's my understanding. Okay. Yeah. Great. Thank you. And I think that, I'll take my turn, but I'll let Commissioner Gallo, because he does, he thought of a question. I did. Actually, I want to piggyback on Steve's comments or concerns about bus routes and the ability to ride a school bus. If that's not available, these are certainly not new words that I've uttered, but if it's walkable and bikeable, it's not just building a sidewalk and saying that's safe enough. We've got to build an environment where it encourages walkability and bikeability. Is this a question or a comment? As long as keeping it safe. This is a comment, right? We're at the comment section, right? No, no, I haven't asked my questions yet. Oh. I thought we were a comment. I thought you were asking a question. So can that be done? Question mark. And that's rhetorical. Great question. Great question. So, of course, piggybacking on the bus thing, too. Like, I'm looking at that location and I'm thinking, so if a kid has to go to grade school, where do they walk and how the heck? I couldn't agree more. I don't consider that safe at all. I would welcome any relationships that you have with the school board or something to elevate it. I don't have that, so I'm certainly not sure what we can do other than we inquired. But if we need something, you know, to go up a little bit higher or something. I guess it would be Garrison Jones, which would be walking down 580 and then crossing at County Road 1. I don't agree. That sounds crazy to me. I don't agree. That may be something we want to talk about. Sorry, having that problem this morning. I don't agree at all. So, if I may, Mayor, we'll go ahead and notch it up a little bit with the school board, see what we can do. Okay, I think that'd be great because, I mean, I could see the high schoolers. I get that. I mean, middle schoolers. To get down to Patricia. I mean, I don't even get the middle schoolers. That's a haul. Agreed. I don't know, but, yeah, okay. I agree. Okay. I wouldn't want to cross 580 every day at that intersection, even myself. And I definitely wouldn't want Vice Mayor to do it. I would be scared to death. That's a joke. So, okay. I guess that didn't go over too well. So, you know, I appreciate your comment on the city employees, but I do think, you know, if it's a server in Dunedin or it's a nurse in Dunedin or it's a teacher in Dunedin, you know, to me they're all very, very important. And so, and I'm not, I know that you're not saying they're not, but I'm not sure. I kind of understand why you don't get into prioritizing because that's hard to do because everybody's kind of important in that role. So, I guess that was a comment. Anticipated opening. Did you say that? It's roughly 15 to 16 months after we break ground on construction. So, if we close in March, 15 to 16 months from there. I was asking you to do the math there. Never do math in public. Hey, that's very smart. Okay, gotcha. And how long is our waiting list now? We don't have a waiting list right now. Whatever you have that we've given you. So, I've had maybe five people that have acquired. I apologize. I created an Excel file. We put people on that list. Because I know one of them was someone that called me as a young mother who works in Dunedin and desperate to get something affordable. We just completed 81 units in Clearwater off of Cleveland Street. And when we just started moving dirt, it was about a 15-month construction time frame. When we started moving dirt, I got a phone call from someone that reached out to our superintendent saying, hey, I'm interested in a unit. Well, we're about 15 months out. We'll reach out three to four months before and we'll start the pre-leasing activities. He called me every month, every two months, kept them updated. Hey, this is when we're starting pre-leasing. And now he's a tenant in one of our buildings. So, he's thrilled to be there. Good. So, those five people kind of are supercharged, so to speak. So, it's not a bad idea to get on the list. Reach out, yeah. Okay. Sounds good. And then as far as a formal list, we'll start pre-leasing three to four months before. The Housing Authority will open up a specific waiting list for the 24 vouchers that are on the deal. Yeah, and I get that. But, of course, you know, a single mother calls you. They're desperate now. Who knows if it'll work by the time it's built. But you don't want them just to have to linger out there. You want them to get on something. So, I appreciate that you guys have kind of done an informal list. I think that's all my questions. So, basically, it's just an update. So, you don't need anything formal from us. Yeah, it was just an update. I think we wanted to heighten awareness. We kind of used this with Penelope County Housing Authority. You don't want to get the word out. So, even from this meeting, you know, our choice might get some feedback relative to looking for something affordable. So, that was the other opportunity today, frankly. Okay. Anybody have final comments at all? Okay. You had your final comment. Kind of comment question. Okay. Well, we're very excited about the project. So, keep going, Dave. We appreciate it very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, Dave. Okay. Anything, any final words of wisdom, Mr. Anshneth? I think today's a very good start. Okay. Obviously, affordable housing is not only a regional but a national crisis. And it's something that we certainly are staying focused on. And, you know, it's funny. You know, what's here today could be well different in six months. Opportunities just present themselves. Just like we do redevelopment deals. So, we're going to continue to focus on it. And I think we've got a great team now. I'm very excited about having the housing authority and being able to get them on board. And we continue to work with Habitat, too. So, we work with all our partners to see what we can do. But, yeah, it's not easy doing affordable housing. You know, obviously, I've done a lot of different initiatives. So, I would say this is one of the more challenging ones. One of the nice things about Archways, and credit to Dave and his partner, Brett Green, is they know how to do those applications. How to leverage dollars. How to put the proformers together. That was one of the reasons. If you remember, because we tried, what, four or five times on this property before we connected with Archways. So, we're looking forward to continuing those type of partnerships with them. But, we're also looking at other developers, too. It isn't just Archways, by any means. So, one last question for you before we, I'm going to take the liberty of asking one last question. Sure. If all homesteaded properties in the state of Florida, in Dunedin, have no property taxes, what happens to rentals and affordable housing and businesses? Who will then be taxed? It's a little scary environment, isn't it? Yeah. Will that help affordable housing for rentals? No, they're going to have to pay more. I mean, I don't know if there's any exceptions for affordable housing at this point in time up in Tallahassee that I've seen. Now, many people think rental costs will be impacted heavily. And that's a reason that it's not a small idea. Unintended consequences. Absolutely, Mayor. And, of course, we're a very residential, homestead-type city. So, yeah, no, it's a big impact. It's a little scary. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Thanks for all your hard work. Thank you. Thanks, Neil, Elise. Unless you want to stay. I'd run if I was you. Okay. We are going to go to citizens' input. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? Okay. I see no, oh, we do have one. Come forward. Name and address for the record and three minutes. Hi. Here in Dunedin. You need to send that again into the mic. One, one, one, two, Terradon Court in Dunedin. Thank you. And one of the instances that I've had in the past is that if you're going to a ball game here at TD, is that a city-owned facility? Yes. Yeah. There's no handicap parking inside of that facility. There are many days when I can't walk 50 feet without being in tears and collapsing. And there's not enough parking for handicap in general in that area. The other thing is that it says local parking only on the local streets. And I understand you don't want to clog up the streets with people coming for the ball games. But you allow people to park 20 cars on their lawns. But if I tried to park on the street in front of that house, I'll get a ticket. And I've been asked by the police to move in the past, even with a handicap sticker. Do you understand my concern? Because I've written about it and I've asked this board about it in the past and never gotten a written response or a vocal response or a text response of any kind. It's something that needs to be addressed. And I appreciate the board's time thinking about it. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Jennifer, can you add anything to that? Certainly, there is handicap parking. Reserved at the stadium and quite a bit of it. So what I'd like to do is let me give you my card and I can show you exactly where it is moving forward. Yes, absolutely. I think sometimes the issue with handicap parking, as somebody who used to drive my mom around a lot, you know, a lot of times the handicap parking gets taken quick, you know, so it's hard. But anyway, yeah, we'll, I think, connect with our city manager. Well, it's the police. It's, it's the sheriff's office that regulates whether or not you can park in there, even with the handicap. Gotcha. They will tell, they've told me directly, there is no handicap parking in this area. Okay. Yep. So, okay. Thank you. Well, thanks, city manager. Appreciate your comments. So obviously, we care deeply about those issues. Okay. We are going to, anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on issues that's not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, we will move forward. Our workshop item is 2026 citizen survey preview. And we will go to Nicole, who wears many hats. Last week, it was legislative. Now it's this. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. Nicole Delfino, Strategy and Sustainability Manager, here to just review the draft of the 2026 citizen survey. Kind of go over the project plan for issuing it. And then obviously take any questions as you, as you've looked through the questions within that survey. We're just waiting for the screen. Thank you. So really quickly, we'll take a look at the survey consultant. Again, review that instrument and the communication plan, as well as the timeline for this project. We are recommending to move forward with Dr. Neely for this survey. He's conducted our last citizen survey, as well as our last business survey, and also the City of Dunedin's employee survey. Obviously, very well regarded. I think we're very appreciative of the content that he's put together as far as the reports and then the action items that have resulted in the previous surveys. So just as far as an overview, again, the citizen survey first started in 2019. We did have a little bit of a break where we got a little off of our regular cadence of every other year due to COVID. But we have been issuing those citizen surveys every other year, 2022, 24, and now, of course, 26. The questions, there's always a section within the survey of which we focused a specific, you know, on any, if we're having a specific issue, and I asked those questions. In last, the last surveys round, we did include a lot of questions on parking and parking demands, because as we heard from, you know, we always consistently hear about parking through our surveys. This year, we've removed those questions and then added some additional questions on parks and recreation and then on our budget prioritization questions. So I know when I first drafted this presentation, we were making a few tweaks to the survey instrument itself. So we added a couple of questions, which also made some of my numbers shift in our screens that we'll look at within this presentation. So I'll just review that quickly with you all. But we do have about 27 questions and then those seven demographic questions. We expect the survey to run three weeks. We'll kick it off actually next Monday, February 9th, and then it'll close in early March. So similar to our last few years, we're always kind of growing how we reach our residents and how we communicate out that this survey is open. We've already got the project page on our website set up. So as questions start to come in when we're posting on social media, we can direct folks to the project page. That includes all the information about the survey as well as the survey link. We have graphics for rat cards and for flyers, which we'll be distributing starting next week. We'll be pushing out, you know, our blog post information through our newsletter and our social media. Last survey, we did a direct email campaign just with this one, you know, content on the survey as like a special newsletter. And then, of course, reaching out to our social organizations. So we always appreciate everybody who's involved in those organizations being an ambassador to kind of get the word out. And then this year, we're adding lawn signs, not on the right of way, but within our own city-owned properties, which will include a QR code. So as people are coming in and out of our community centers, our libraries and so forth, they'll also see it there. So this is just an example of what some of that communication will look like. It's a rat card image on one side and then the lawn sign on the other. So more specifically, to take a look at the tool itself, this is where you'll see a little revisions from the posted presentation. Again, a lot of those satisfaction questions that we've included year over year, we maintain that so we can continue to provide that comparison. We added a section on parks and recreation usage and preferences. Those are questions 6 to 11. And then the discussion as we were kind of working through this survey was we actually added some open-ended opportunities for residents to reply directly following the question on public safety, solid waste, and infrastructure. Being that, the conversation being that rather than waiting until the end of the survey and say, oh, you know, what do you remember about this thing that we've previously asked or that sort of situation, that we now give them the opportunity to immediately respond if they have a specific issue or want to say thanks surrounding those topics there. And then we added the prioritization question on budgeting, our questions 25 and 26. And then as I mentioned previously, we removed those parking-related questions. Because we want to be mindful of obviously not creating a survey that is too big and too cumbersome, but somebody that can actually still get through it on their phone or their tablet. And so we're keeping it within a modest-sized survey. I do have the survey instrument pulled up on the computer. I'm happy to go through it. I don't know if you want to just have general comments or questions as you have reviewed it. If you want to look at it question by question, I'll defer to your preferences. Get that on first. I mean, I'm not, I don't think we need to go through a question by question. Does anybody, do we want to, we'll just do questions for each person. So I think I'm starting over here with Vice Mayor. Questions overall or thoughts about the survey? Yes. Thank you, Mayor. So it looks just, just kind of generally speaking, I mean, it looks like the major changes from the last one was it's much more focused on the actual parks and recs assets. Is that? We want to, yeah, we, I think the, you know, I know Tony's here. We actually worked with, we worked with all departments to kind of go through the questions and really ask those things that are most vital. What is the information that, that, that department really needs to make decisions moving forward? You're welcome to add. Good morning, Commission. Tony Mulkey, Parks and Recreation Director. As we, we reviewed the, the survey that we wanted to get some community feedback on when people recreate and what type of amenities that they really use, whether it's a passive activity in a park or if it's a instructed or active activity, either in a facility or using athletic fields, things like that, where we can kind of identify areas for investment and for budgeting. Okay, good. And as a result of the last survey, did we capture any lessons learned from that? I mean, I'd have to go back. I mean, obviously we, you know, we report out on, on the findings. I think we do address a lot of items when we, when we see consistent remarks being made. That's something that we use and we talk about during our budget process. You know, this was talked about in the citizen survey. So those are, those are where we kind of align, you know, the budget and the projects that we have to the comments and, and the, and the feedback that we get from the citizen survey. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think that's important. You know, the, well, I'll save it for comments. So on the, on the open-ended questions, those are always a little bit harder to bucket, if you will, statistically. I mean, so you, what kind of, what's your methodology for, for capturing the statistical significance of those open-ended questions? So we, and that was kind of the intentionality of moving those open-ended questions directly following some of those infrastructure questions. So how do you feel about public safety? And then if they, you know, select some sort of level of, you know, not satisfied, dissatisfied, tell us, you know, tell, then tell us. So that we'll be able to capture that, you know, that feedback a little bit better related to that one topic rather than the very general broad, tell us what you, tell us what you love, or tell us what you don't love, which means that we get, you know, a lot of very varied comments. So that'll help with, you know, streamlining really what any issues are in those various, in those specific areas. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And then I, finally, what's our, what's our timeline to get this out? Uh, it is, it's, I, I, I'm waiting to make any final edits, uh, with Dr. Neely, uh, this week, um, but it's, it's, it's, it's live, it's ready to go. It's just kind of sharing that information, which there'll be, uh, a little teaser in the newsletter on Thursday. And then, like I said, uh, we'll be have, we'll have some boots on the ground as far as getting flyers, rec, rec cards, and those lawn signs up next week. Um, and then the social media posting and, and reaching out to those groups, uh, to share the content. Okay. That's all I got. Commissioner Sandberg and questions. I had a couple, um, question number two, are you a current resident of Dunedin? If someone answers no, will it be tossed? Yep. Okay. They'll be, it'll say thank you for participating in the survey. And a question, this would be like five, six, and seven would sort of roll together. Um, if I'm a non-user of the spray ground, you know, my, my vote could be a little slanted. I could be against it because of the cost. Is there any way we take into consideration non-users of these facilities? Yes. And the directions for those questions, it says, if you don't use these amenities, please choose unsure. Okay. Okay. I probably just read right over that. That's okay. Um, question number 12, it refers to the local police. That should probably be a little bit more fine-tuned Pinellas County Sheriff's office. Cause we don't, you know, 35 years ago, we used to have the Dunedin police and I, I don't, that's, I'm not telling you that, but you just maybe what you, what do you think of that? You know, we see their fancy cars and their stuff around town. Sorry guys. Yeah. And I believe we may have had that listed previously that way. Um, and that, that is not a problem. We can add that. Um, and, uh, last night I had contact with someone here in the building. Was it question number seven referring to local police? 12. 12. 12. Yes. Number 12 refers to local police and we should put in parentheses, but else can I share? Okay. Whatever you think I'm just, so that to avoid any, I like the, the local police because you know, they honor our police department and people don't, you know, so yeah. Okay. Um, and then jumping to question number 21. In fact, I had a concern about this last night with someone here in the city. Uh, we, it doesn't, it's not spectrum 630, 630, it's 639, which is down. It was down last night and I was. Yeah. Which by the way, I, I did text. Did you hear that? Yeah. It's down. Well, yeah. Peg told me it was down too. I was sitting in front of my fireplace ready to watch 639. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see what they think of 630. Yeah. 630 is not going to work. So 639 is the channel. And that's, uh, by the way, that, that's all the questions I had. I just, yeah, just to make sure I, you know, I know I've been a proponent of getting that up and running and just to make sure that's correct. Appreciate it. Thanks for the call. That's all, Mayor. Okay. Questions. I'll go to Commissioner Gow. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, yeah, actually it's question 24. I believe it's on page 14. Might be just cosmetic and it might've been because of the moving and adding of questions, but there's no column headers to that question. Oh, yes. So we'll, we'll be, be sure that it'll, it'll be the very satisfied, uh, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied category. So we'll make sure that's there. Thank you. As long as the residents know what they're answering. Fantastic. And then, uh, the next question, question 25 and just the, the question itself, right. It talks about different aspects of the city and, uh, and parks and rec and arts and culture and just the pool isn't mentioned at all in that question. And I'm wondering whether or not the pool or aquatic center, however we want to label it, shouldn't be identified individually, or at least in the last one where it's community amenities where we already have marina golf club, whether pool shouldn't be added to that either way, just if it's not left out. And that's her. I, I don't know whether those were, they were comments about questions and it's kind of a gray area there. I don't know. I think that you kind of said questions or comments. Oh, did you? Okay. Okay. All right. And then, uh, then my comment would be, I'm glad that. You weren't good before, but you're good now. So it's always better to be in good graces with the mayor, uh, and then just overall, thank you for adding the questions about budget and things of that nature for our residents. Appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Degard. It's always fun to follow Jeff, um, because you never know if you're doing questions or comments. Um, how many years have we been doing this survey? This will be the fifth round. 2019. So we've been, this is 10 years we've been doing it. 2019. 20, yeah, it's 2019. Um, every other year, every other year, but we got a little off, uh, off our cadence due to COVID. So we do, we do the citizen survey one year, then the business survey, and then the next year we do. So we alternate the two every other year. Okay, great. Do we do any linear movement within the questions to see how the issue is progressing over time? Yeah, it will. We do that in the report out. We'll include the data from 2019 all the way through so that we can see how things are changing. Okay. What was the big aha with the last survey we did like this? Actually, uh, I would say we, we made some progress as far as, uh, traffic goes, which is some promising progress, uh, because we, you know, there's several things that we did. We have additional details. We actually, uh, uh, uh, uh, a traffic, uh, deputy to our contract with the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office. And we actually moved that needle a little bit, which was a nice aha. So we don't, we don't actually, the good news is that we don't get a lot of ahas, which is, uh, in terms of, uh, we understand quite well what the priorities are of our residents. And that's really the reason why we do these surveys is, is what are we missing, uh, as we, as we move toward the budget process. And so we know that, that, uh, planning for the future is an issue. We know that growth is an issue. And as a result, uh, we put out, uh, communications in terms of, we really haven't grown, I think it's 2000 since, uh, 20 or 2000, you know, residents. So those types of things, but we really don't get a lot of, of, oh my goodness, we're going in the wrong direction type of ahas. And what has been our response rate? Uh, we, well, I, obviously since, you know, I took this over, uh, with the, the 2022 survey, we've seen increases level levels of responses due to our communication. So, you know, when we, when we started this, we didn't have the website that we're operating with now. We didn't have the newsletter set up. So we've added a lot of those communication tools, which means that we're reaching more residents. So every year we've had, um, a pretty significant increase in responses, which again is, is the goal to see, you know, really trying to get just as many people to respond as possible. Uh, so the last time we did this was 24? Yes. How many responses did we have for the 24? I want to, off the top of my head, I want to say between 17 to 1900. Okay. That's a very good response rate. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. Okay. Um, I already did you guys, right? Okay. Um, so I, I guess one of my questions, and I guess it's something you could talk to, um, with Dr. Is it Healy? Healy. Um, you know, we're going to have a tough budget session. So my question is, are we drilling down enough in the cut area? Like if you got to give something else, I mean, and this is before we even think about what the state could do with property tax. I mean, it'll, it'll be a lot easier if they go all the way with property tax because we'll be cutting just about all the quality of life stuff. Um, so, but I guess, are we drilling down enough into what you would want to give up in Dunedin with, uh, cuts? I think that we have an opportunity to maybe even do a spot survey on something like that where we could ask, you know, three to five questions, especially if we're talking about having public, you know, public forums. That's a great place for, for folks to actually click on something and respond right there. What, you know, and I think we'll also have a little bit more information with where we are, with what those would look like or, or what the amount would look like at, at, at minimum. Um, so with that could kind of help frame, you know, how we're going to put those questions together. Um, but that's certainly something that we can, you know, we can do as we move into this, you know, the, the property tax, uh, discussion and, and campaign, um, with a communication plan. So in these questions that we have targeted, I mean, does it make any sense to, add any kind of comment area in that so that people can drill down if they decide to into what they, or, or just do it the way you're suggesting? We can add, I mean, we can certainly add a comment directly following that, that, you know, puts a little explainer with, you know, if this were to some, you know, something along the lines of if, if cuts would have to be made, you know, or describe, you know, what, what you, any additional information you would want to provide. Because that lets them go in any nuanced way they want to. Right, right. Like, oh, I see no need for this. I've never seen a need for this. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Um, okay. I, I, yeah, just, it's something I think for you guys to discuss. Uh, you know, the better information we have as we go into a tough budget year and not even knowing what the state will do, I think the better. Um, let's see. I don't know. Like, there was something about green spaces and park access that, I mean, maybe it's fine. But in terms of, when I look at, if, if we actually had to face massive cuts, which some of the property tax stuff would make us do, like, I mean, I don't know. Somehow that doesn't just capture the fact that we would potentially be either closing parks or sectioning off parks, not doing maintenance in a lot of areas of parks. I, I don't know how to nail that better. And maybe, again, maybe you're right. Uh, once we understand the full impact, we, we kind of do spot check surveys with our citizens on what they would rather have us, uh, I think also get rid of. Yeah, go ahead. If I may. I think that the survey itself is, is one tool for us moving forward. This gives us a really good direction. But to Nicole's point, I mean, we can do, you know, specific surveys. And also when we start the forums, we'll use that tool as well to give you as much information as we can about where, uh, your residents believe your priorities should be as, as far as the budget goes. Okay. And, and obviously I don't want to, you know, expect the worst because I think we'll know in the next month, basically what's going to happen at the state level. So, um, so let's expect the best. Um, okay. Uh, that's all the questions I have. So basically you just need kind of go forward and. Well, yeah, we want to make sure, uh, obviously that the city commission touches the survey that you've reviewed it, um, uh, because it, to me, it's, it's of quintessential importance to the city commission as you approach the budget that you have seen this survey, you understand what it is we're asking and you support the survey. Okay. So I will give an opportunity just for final, uh, just final comment on that in terms of if you're on board and anything else. So Commissioner Gow. I'm on board. Okay. Commissioner Degard. I'm a pro survey kind of guy. Yes, you are. I know you are. Uh, vice mayor. I am on board. So, okay, Commissioner Sandbergen. Yeah, I think we'll, it'll be like a report card to the entire city, including the commission and on board. I'm on board. Fantastic. Let's go. Sail the boat. Okay. Um, thank you, Nicole, for all you do. Thank you. Okay. Uh, I think we should take a, uh, quick break and then after that we'll go into golf club advisory committee discussion. Do you care to ask for public input on that? Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Anybody in the audience on the survey wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Thank you. Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input. We will go to break and, uh, when we come back we'll do the golf club, which I think a few people out there are interested in. Thank you. We'll reopen the meeting and, uh, go to staff presentation on the golf club advisory committee discussion. Um, and, uh, Michelle, we'll turn to you. Thank you, Mayor. So what you have before you is a draft resolution, potentially establishing the golf club advisory committee. We modeled this after the 2017, uh, military veterans advisory committee resolution. So what we are proposing is a mem, a seven member committee, all members of the committee shall be residents of the city of Dunedin. The breakdown would be three members of the Dunedin golf club on the committee, one member of the board of finance and two residents at large. We also have the, the initial appointments would stagger in order to prevent any, wait, wait, wait, wait, three members, uh, um, on the board, three members. So in no time shall there be more than three members of the Dunedin golf club on the committee. And the committee is encouraged to have one member of the board of finance. It would be three members of the, of the golf club, three residents at large and one member of the board of finance for a total of seven. Okay, good. Now I think you said two and you just probably misspoke. Okay. Um, okay. So, okay. So, and those initial appointments would stagger to prevent them all falling off the board at one time. So that would be four members initially for three years, two members for two years. And one member for one year after those, it would be the three member, three year terms. And we would also suggest that the, of the four that are three years, that one of those be one of the board of finance members and that board of finance member would be recommended by the board of finance. So if a board of finance member, cause I was kind of curious how this worked just for clarification. If the board of finance member is on the golf club, is that their two things that they can be on? Or if you're a liaison to another board, does that count as your two? Yes. It can only be any two at one time. No matter what? No matter how you, okay. Cause I know some boards have laisons from that board over to another board and. Maybe an ex officio. Yeah. Maybe it's a little different. In this case, they'd be a full on member. So that would be their second board. Okay. Correct. Okay. Got it. So anything else you want to have to be residents, have to be residents. Right. You probably said that. Okay. Okay. I guess questions for staff. I think I did a commissioner Gow. So I'll start. Okay. Go ahead. Sure. Absolutely. Thank you very much. So just, just to, in, in regards to the process, because I think we're going to get to that question. So, uh, the plan is that we would, uh, one other thing too, is that this is actually, um, the staggered terms are modeled after the veterans advisory committee. The resolution itself is moderate after the model after the marina advisory committee in terms of their slip renters in the marina and then there are business owners and so on and so forth. So, and the marina is also an enterprise fund. So I think that it was important that, that, that we modeled after, um, the marina because the golf club is also an enterprise fund. So the other part that, that is, how is it that we pick the members of the committee? And I think that it's important in this case that the city commission be availed, uh, all of the applications. Uh, we will qualify them as residents of the city of Dunedin and we actually use our GIS at this point to make sure that they are not an unincorporated, that they are within, um, the city of Dunedin. Uh, we'll advertise, uh, as we normally do. Uh, I think we advertise in the beacon and we also advertise via our website for, uh, applications, um, and then the application period, um, we'll, we'll, we'll give them a specific deadline in which to submit the applications, uh, qualify them as I was saying, and then put all of those before the city commission. Okay. Sounds good. Um, okay. So we'll go to questions. I will start with the vice mayor. This is questions. I should have said that to him. I think, I think you should ask your colleague to the left. I know you're absolutely right. I made that, that, that emphasized comment to the wrong person. So vice mayor, go ahead. I'm a rule follower. Uh, thank you, mayor. Um, so city manager, I thank you for that clarification. Cause I, I do think that modeling this after the Marine advisory committee is, is the right way to do this. Um, and, uh, with that said, I don't know that I have any additional questions. Uh, really probably more comments. So I'll, uh, that's all I have. Okay. Uh, questions, commissioner Sandberg. So resident, we're very clear. Is it someone that resides in Dunedin or owns property in Dunedin? Someone that resides in Dunedin. So an apartment? Yes. A tenant. Okay. Um, and will this, will they have any input in, uh, or contact with the bar restaurant? So we would ask that the restaurateur be ex officio and attend the meetings. Um, the staff liaison would be Blair Klein, um, and Tony Mulkey also would, would be an assist as far as a golf, uh, club advisory committee goes, but we would ask that they attend the meetings. Yes. Yep. That's all I had, mayor. Okay. Uh, sure. Go ahead. So I, uh, just another point of clarification on that, um, understand the resident criteria, but let's just say for instance, and we, we have a lot of residents who own other properties in Dunedin and, uh, if, uh, the resident lives in an unincorporated part of Dunedin and owns property that's in incorporated, uh, what's, did we get resolution on that? Uh, we have actually the resolution in that particular case, and you're talking about a member of the Marine Advisory Committee, we've discussed with them, that person's going to annex into the city of Dunedin. Okay. So they're living in unincorporated and they're going to annex, um, we had some discrepancy obviously, um, between a member who was appointed, who lived in unincorporated and also some of the resolutions say property owner and some say resident and for the boards of committees, we're going to clean that up, um, subject to direction of the city commission. I'm sure you'll have that discussion, but I think it's important that, that for the purposes of, of certainly this committee, that they are residents of the city of Dunedin. They live in the city of Dunedin. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. Great. Uh, Commissioner Gao. Questions? Uh, thank you, Mayor. Yeah. Kind of a crazy question, but, and the, the, the membership, right, is three golf club members, three residents, and then one member of the finance committee. And looking at the membership terms, we don't actually acknowledge three non-golf club members or whatever. It just kind of defaults to that. And I'm wondering if that shouldn't just be added so it's clear that residents can look at this resolution and go three, three, and one, but it only acknowledge three members of the golf club and one member of finance and it's a seven member board, but it doesn't say anything about the other three clearly. And I'm just wondering if that needs to be specified a little, cleaned up a little bit more. And if I am not a golf club member, is there some sort of cross check in the process to make sure if I don't disclose to you that I'm a golf club member, that it's clear that I'm not. We in the clerk's office depend on the liaisons to help us in, in that instance, Blair might come in handy. Blair, you want to answer that? Yeah, absolutely. We have a list of all of our members and we can cross check. We have addresses, uh, emails, phone numbers, so we can cross check with, with the, uh, with the city clerk. Very good. That sounds like that's under control. Um, all right. That's my only question. I was also just going to point out that in there, it specifically identifies, well, you're right. It doesn't say what the other three are. It does say that it's specifically limited to no more than three golf club members. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And it does, and it does acknowledge at the very beginning, it shall consist of a seven members, um, or seven members who serve, okay, members, uh, for three years, but it doesn't say three. Three non-members. Non-members. Non-members. Yeah. It doesn't say that. I can do that. Yeah. Well, it can't be no more than three Dunnean Golf Club members and no more than three non-members because then what about the finance board person? So that would be four non-members. Right. It would be four non-members. Right. Okay. I just want to make sure we got that. With one of those non-members being a member of the finance board. Mm-hmm. Yep. Right. Okay. Um, any other questions? No. No more. Okay. Commissioner DeGuard, questions? Thank you, Mayor. Um, I think we've got the who down. Um, I'm, I'm a little, I'm going to focus more on the what. Blair, give me an idea of what you expect the advisory committee to deal with in its first year. I think the, I think the advisory committee is, uh, is a, uh, a necessary function of the, uh, the club going forward. Um, I have a lot of visitors to my office. Uh, some people may not want to visit in person. They may want to talk to the, the people they play golf with and get their ideas on things rather than coming directly to me. Uh, the people in the community could be business owners wondering how we can work closer together to drive more business to the city of Dunedin. Um, I, I think they'll look at everything. Uh, the board of finance will certainly be looking at our finance, our financials, but we'll have a liaison on the committee also. And the committee will be the eyes and the ears of, uh, uh, in, uh, in addition to me and John Falcone, our golf pro, uh, and any of our other employees. There'll be the eyes and the ears to drive the operation of the club, help drive the operation of the club forward. Um, and it's prior formation when there was a board over there, they had a foundation. Do you see this advisory committee working inside that foundation structure at all? Well, they, they have the, they currently have the Dunedin Golf Club Foundation. They have activated that again. The foundation's doing some great work. Um, but they are their own entity. Yes, they have their own board. Um, they have their own entity. So that, this would be an addition to the foundation. Okay. Um, in the event that one of the non-members were to become a member, how does that affect our, our structure? There just isn't an opening. As long as there are three already club members, there's not an opening for them. So if a non-member were to become a member, they would therefore not be on the board any long, the advisory board any longer. Is that correct? That is correct. You'd be choosing that over the service. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Okay. Um, but again, I guess I got this going on. I got you guys already. So, yeah, uh, it's that kind of morning. Just checking. Okay. Um, my questions would be, um, I don't know if I have any, um, cause we talked about the resident thing. Um, so we would be appointing the members initially. Yes. And we could continue that, right? Versus, versus do a practice where, you know, now we have the board recommend to us, but we could continue to just control that ourselves and not have a recommendation come from the board. Just keep that under our purview. Correct? Yes. Okay. Um, do you think that would be a good idea? Yes. Okay. All right. Um, so let's see, and you said one of the ex-officios you were thinking potentially could be the restaurant manager or Zach himself. Um, and you made a good comment about business owners. So maybe, maybe who would you see as the other logical ex-officio? Would it maybe be a Dunning business owner that maybe doesn't live in the city, but can advise? I guess it could be. I was thinking more of business owners in the form of being the three non-residents or the three resident, not- Right, right. But they'd also have to be a residing resident, too, which we have plenty of those, so it's not like we don't have that. A lot of our owners live in the city. Um, okay. That's all I have for questions, so I will, uh, open it up for, um, our public comment or, and so anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this item? Okay. How do you feel? There we go. There we go. Okay. Name and address for the record, and three minutes. Yes, uh, Kevin Janiga. I live at 1107 Palm Boulevard. Uh, yeah, so I'm very pleased to hear that, uh, sounds like we're in the process of forming a, um, advisory committee for the golf course. Uh, and again, I want to thank the, the mayor and the city commissioners for, uh, having the foresight to redo the golf course and restore it. As you're seeing, we're getting lots of accolades for a wonderful, wonderful restoration of a Donna Ross course. Uh, with that said, however, uh, the course was in pristine condition when we first opened last year. It has deteriorated significantly, unfortunately. Uh, we've had problems with a fungus in the spring. We had a drought situation where we couldn't water the fairways for three or four weeks, and now we're dealing with an algae situation. So our greens have deteriorated rapidly. Um, we're also having a lot of lack of attention to detail with our bunkers. Uh, and we're on our fourth, uh, green superintendent since DT took over in 2022. So we have no continuity with our golf course maintenance. Fortunately, we have some members. One of them right behind me is a former golf superintendent for 40 years. We also have a lot of knowledge, a lot of people with a lot of business experience that are golf course members. So I think the advisory committee can help out quite a bit. But, um, I know we have come up a little bit short with our, uh, revenue versus what we have budgeted. And I think some of that is related to the fact that the course conditions aren't commensurate with the design and the restoration of the golf course. And I think the advisory committee could go a long way at providing some accountability. As Commissioner Dugard mentioned, um, what's the scorecard? Uh, we don't have a scorecard at the golf course that I'm aware of. So we'd have no way of measuring whether the golf course is improving condition or deteriorating condition right now. And we lack some of the processes, procedures, and protocols that you see at some of the top notch municipal golf courses around the country. We should have an annual maintenance plan that's detailed week by week. I'm not aware that that's been implemented. We don't have golf maintenance standards, uh, documented at all. So these are all things that the golf course advisory committee could bring to the forefront to ensure that this wonderful resource that we put over $6 million in, uh, maintains itself in top notch condition or maintains the destination golf course that we all wanted it to be. So with that, um, I would love to be on that committee. I'll certainly apply for it. And I think we have some other members, uh, that would also be great assets on that advisory committee. So thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Kevin. Um, does anyone else wish to come forward and speak on, uh, to this item name and address for the record and three minutes? Hi. Good morning, uh, David Smith. I reside at 1970 Canadian court. Um, I was lucky enough to be the first new member when the club reopened in January of last year. And, uh, it was in, in great condition as, as Kevin said. Um, I won't repeat a lot of what he said, but just want to reiterate it. And I see tremendous potential to go beyond where it is today. I think the commission can bring a lot, um, the people that I know, um, want to put time into something like this. I would certainly like to be a member of the committee and, um, uh, recently was appointed president of the Osprey group at the club. Um, so there's roughly 45 members of that, that, uh, I could get some input from them and bring all of that to the committee. Um, the survey we talked about before, I mean, that's a, not that survey, but something like that also could be used, um, within the committee to, there's just so much potential because the redesign was great. And, uh, I certainly encourage this, uh, committee to go forward. Uh, that's all. Thank you. Thank you, David. Appreciate that. Anyone else wish to come forward? Okay. Uh, name and address for the record in three minutes. How are you doing? Uh, my name is Kyle Canney. I live 2325 Tiverton Court. That's three cul-de-sacs from the 11th T, uh, the course. Um, I was the superintendent for 50 plus years, uh, the last 25 of which, uh, I was president of a management company that operated 36 holes in Oxnard, California. Um, along with two football fields that Al Davis had built for the Raiders when they moved down. And you still, the Cowboys still use those fields. Um, this golf course, first of all, you're to be complimented on what a great job that renovation was. Uh, the restoration, uh, you guys return that to just an incredible golf course, and it is slipping downhill. I'm a member. I was a member before I got my knee replaced, and so I let my membership slide. I am now a member again, and, um, uh, yeah, the potential of this golf course is, is just as high as it can be. Uh, but there are a lot of things lacking. I think there's no way to verify what you're paying for in the maintenance end of this, and you need to be able to do that. There should be a business plan with, uh, projections of what is going to be done, what it's going to cost, and what it's going to produce as far as revenues. And, uh, yeah, I would love to be on this committee. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? Come on down. Name and address for the record in three minutes. How are you doing? Good morning. My name is Kathleen Sands-Martin. I reside at 428 Orangewood Drive in Dunedin, Florida. I wasn't going to come up here, but it sounds like everybody's campaigning to be on the committee. So, as a citizen, I would like to recommend myself. I love it. Thank you very much. That's great. That's great. Okay. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one, I'll close that. And I will ask the City Manager, maybe you or Blair could just comment on, uh, the comments about things going downhill. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll let Blair talk a little bit about the condition of the course and, and, but I will say that it is an exponentially better condition than when we, when we took it over. Period. So, this has been a massive investment from the City of Dunedin into that golf course. Um, we have had rave reviews from just about everybody who has visited it. We, um, we are continuing to put resources into this course commensurate with what we can afford to do. Um, you know, last summer we were watering that golf course, but as I explained to Fairway Estates last night with the mayor, we were, we were also concerned about our consumptive use permit as well as the potable water issue. There are continuing competing resources in the city that we have got to address. The golf course is getting, uh, as much or more attention, I would say, than many of our other amenities. And so, um, when I hear that it's slipping, uh, first of all, I, I disagree with that, but when I hear that it's slipping, it, it, we are putting as much, much resources, as many resources into it as we are able to do given the enterprise fund. And again, we're not using general fund money for the golf course. So it has to, it's a business, we're running a business, it is, it is, and we're running the business as best we can given the resources that we have. But again, I'm going to say that this, the condition of this golf course between now and when the city took over full operational control is, is a hundred percent better. Blair, did you want to, uh, thank you for that, uh, city manager. But, uh, uh, I think one thing to remember is when the course opened December 27th, um, 2024, that, uh, nobody had played the golf course. Yes, we'd had some hurricanes growing was very challenging. Um, but the areas that were grown in, nobody had been on it. Now we've gone through a full year of play. We're back into cold weather, which we also had last January. Uh, we're back into cold weather. We're in a slow to no growth period right now. Um, there is, the turf's getting thinner. It's not filling in as, as much as, as quickly as you would hope. Um, that being said, it's making it through in good condition. Uh, is it perfect? No, it's not perfect, but it is in good shape. Uh, we've had many golf course raiders, uh, out to the golf course because we're trying to establish where we rank, at least in Florida, if not the country, uh, overwhelmingly their comments about the condition are, it's great. I wish I had this at our club. Um, we just had the preeminent writer, uh, for Golf Week magazine about golf architecture. Jason Lusk played, uh, Friday and, uh, he put an article out and I asked him, I said, uh, after it was round, did you like it? He said, oh man, it's a great restoration. I said, what can we do better? And he said, I'm not going to tell you anything. He said, the course is in fantastic shape. The greens complexes and the bunkers are absolutely awesome. They're authentic. They need to be just the way they are. And, uh, so we always ask the raiders, what did they like the most? And what can we do better? Because you can always do better or try to do better. And, uh, we have not had any complaint from the raiders about the conditions of the golf course. And, uh, sure, they see some spots on the greens and everything. They're not, they're not discounting those, but they're being realistic and they're playing many, many golf courses throughout Florida at the same, at this time of year. And, uh, for a municipal facility doing the rounds we do, we are certainly, uh, much better shaped than when we took it over. Um, I was just going to say, Jennifer, it might be good when it's warmer, not now, um, for, to take the commission on a little drive around the course and just get updated on it. I know we're going to see the updated numbers, so it might be appropriate for, uh, you or Blair. Or both to take us around in, in a group and just kind of see it that way, you know, we can kind of. Can I play when we're? No. No, it'll take too long. That's right. You can have beverages on the golf cart, so no. I'm just kidding. Um, okay. So, um, all right. So, uh, sure. One more question. It was right now, a hundred years ago when we were building this course. What are the plans for the Centennial? Oh. We've, we've begun discussion. Um, Tony and I talked. Uh, matter of fact, yesterday, um, probably for, I think we were about two hours and probably an hour and a half of it was, was that discussion of various ideas, um, what we can do that would be expensive, what we can do that wouldn't be expensive, how we can honor the hundred years of the club. Um, so that is actively in process now. Um, um, if I'm Tony, Tony's on a second, but, um, so, so to that end, the, the Centennial would be, uh, January, 2027. January 1st, right? Right. January 1st, 2027. And so one of the things that, that I discussed with Tony yesterday, who discussed with Blair thereafter, is that this really needs to be, uh, not just a golf club effort. I mean, we need to, to bring to bear our special events folks and, and that type of a thing to make sure that we do a good job. Um, and we'll certainly engage the foundation as well. See if they, you know, what assistance they want to use the advice of the, uh, golf club advisory committee as well to, to make it a special event. Um, moving forward though, we, we have, uh, the Blue Jays 50th season. We have the 30th anniversary of the Pentecostal Sheriff's Office contract. We have the Bison, the 250 years of the United States of America. Um, and then we have the golf club. So we have a number of events moving forward that we're working on all of them. 25th year of 9-11 too. 25th year of 9-11, right. We need to talk to the fire department about that, right? Yes. No, that's great. I will say I'm picturing for the city centennial, there was a big gala at the Fine Arts Center and everybody was dressed in the, you know, the clothes of the day. So I am certainly picturing a, uh, event at the club that with everybody with their, you know, 19, whatever it was, or when was it? 27, uh, gala or golf, golf, I guess, uh, costumes, whatever. So we'll see. That was, that was Tony's suggestion yesterday. Okay, good, good. I had, I had to Google the flapper outfits and no, I'm not going to wear one. Um, but keep in mind when this club was being built, this, Dunedin was not the size it is today. And this was really big news in the city of Dunedin. There was great plans in, in the beginning. And we need to have really big news for the city of Dunedin, uh, for January 1, 2027. I do. And I'm glad you brought it up. I actually had it written down, Commissioner Dugard, and I forgot to say it. Um, so you kind of beat me to the punch and I'm glad you did. Um, but it is a way to make our whole community feel like it is their club. So that's great. Anything else? Commissioner Dugard? Okay. Anybody final question? I'm going to go to comments. So, did you have a question? Okay. So I will go to Vice Mayor for final comments. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, well, first and foremost, I greatly appreciate the experience and, um, the, the history that are, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll call them candidates for the, the inaugural golf committee, golf club committee. So, thank you. Um, and I most certainly appreciate, uh, you know, bringing up the, the aspects that, uh, you know, we need to focus on going forward. Um, and, uh, with that said, I'm, you know, I'm in favor of this. I think this is the missing piece to the puzzle and, uh, very much looking forward to, uh, you know, the, the future. Um, and then of course there's the, uh, 250th, uh, sorry, the hundredth celebration. And I just have to say that, uh, you know, the city of Dunedin is always looking for another excuse to have a new outfit. Thank you. I can see Claudia already working on what you're going to wear. Okay. Commissioner Sandberg and final comments. I just want to say, you know, thank you, Tony and Blair. And it's really encouraging to hear knowledgeable, knowledgeable people come up and tell us, uh, I, you know, I'm the world's worst golfer, but I sit up here and help make decisions based on what you and Kay are, you know, bringing before us. And, uh, yeah, I fully support this. In fact, I wish it could start tomorrow and get this thing in place and hear from the residents that are out there actually playing and understand what's going on at the, every day at the club. So I'm, I'm in 100% in favor of this, mayor. Great. Okay. Commissioner Gow. Thank you, mayor. Um, oh my God. There's so many people to thank. Um, certainly Kevin, you're one of them. You've kind of been driving this train for quite some time. Um, Tony Blair, staff, Jennifer, uh, mayor, everybody. There's, it's, it's nice that we're finally getting here. We've been talking about the advisory committee, uh, since the beginning as well. And the idea that there needed to be some sort of representation. If the board was going away, then what could it be replaced with? And so it's just nice that it's, uh, finally on the agenda and we're seeing it come to fruition. So thank you, mayor. Okay. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, mayor. It goes without saying that the golf club is one of the city's great assets and that we need to treat it as a great asset. It's got a long history. We need to honor that history. And I see that as a good focus for the advisory committee as soon as it's formed to, uh, review the possibilities and make recommendations on the possibilities of how we celebrate its hundredth anniversary. Yes, it's going to be competing with a number of activities in the community at the same time, but that makes it no less important. Um, and therefore something we need to make sure is properly addressed. And I think with the city's communications department, the new advisory board and the expertise of our staff, that we can have an event that's worthy of what we've got here as a treasure. Um, there are some concerns out there, by the way, I've noticed a pattern amongst golfers though. Um, if you talk to a golfer about the last golf course they ever played on, uh, even if it was one they played on yesterday, they can find ways to improve it. Um, it's just the nature of golfers. That's what they do. Um, and I, I get that. Um, perhaps that's why I'm not a golfer anymore. I'm not real sure, but, um, I admire the work that's been done on this. Um, got to remember that just a few years ago, we were questioning the go forward possibilities of the golf club. Uh, and we're so much further down the line than that. We know it's going to be a continued asset in the community and we know it's going to be something that we have to invest proper resources into. Uh, with that being said, I'm fully in support of the advisory committee. Yeah, I'm going to start out by, I'm kind of where you left off, which was, this was a huge investment for the city. I certainly was one that thought we can't just jump off every other capital project and throw this kind of money into the golf course. Um, but as it moved along, it was too big of an opportunity and really a risk, uh, no other way to maintain that kind of land without helping it make money at the same time. But, but the venture so proud of where it ended up and Kevin, your vision, I think pushed us along a little bit, but at the same time, as I think as city manager said, it is, it's got to work. Uh, it's got to be its own business because, uh, it, it could be the giant sucking sound and, and for the rest of the community. And it can't be, it just can't be, it already jumped ahead of a lot of important things because it was important to do at that time. And it was important to our history, but again, we can't let it be the giant sucking sound to the budget. We can't, we don't have the ability. We don't have the money. We have too many other things that are important to other citizens. So, so it's a balance and I, I, I, and I get it. I mean, I, I, I love it to be the best always, you know, just put all the money we can, but that's not what we're doing here. And, um, and hopefully we can do enough and make enough that it will always stay in good condition. So obviously, you know, cause it's foolish not to on the other hand. So it's a, it's a tough balance and, and Blair, you're the guy you're sitting in the seat that's got to balance that and city manager, but I'm fully supportive of it, fully supported the decision because it's such a part of our history, but it does have its place. And, and so we've got to work with it, with our competing interests and, and money. Um, I, uh, fully agree with this. I think, uh, obviously this is an important component, the advisory committee. I agree with how the makeup is done, that it's residents, uh, how this has been set up. Um, I, I, I would just add to, um, I mean, this can be, it doesn't have to be decided right away, but I would like this particular board to always come to us. We get all the applications for replacements, uh, because I think it's just too important to, to not let the whole commission, uh, decide who we want those representatives to be, at least for, you know, the initial stages here. Um, um, and I know we'll do that originally, but I'd like any kind of replacement to come back to us, but I fully support this. I think it's, uh, it's well done. Michelle, I think you did a great job of laying it out. Appreciate that. And, uh, so I think, uh, we have our marching orders, right? Okay. So the resolution, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll assign a number to it and it will return to you for approval. Awesome. And then at the time that we approve it, will then it be the, another meeting that we'll get all the applications or how's that going to work? It's going to probably take us about a month to get all the applications together, sort through them, um, qualify them and, and, and provide them to you. So potentially we'll approve this and then later we'll actually pick the members. Right. Yes. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. And thank you all. Thanks for coming up, campaigning, if that's what it was now, and your comments as well. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. We are going to go to golf. Wait, sorry. Boards and committee revisions. Uh, we have a staff presentation by Michelle. And of course this has been a while coming and I've been a lot of work and, uh, but also important because we have so many, uh, citizens involved in these committees. This is one of those things that has to be done well. So, so go ahead, Michelle. Absolutely, mayor. Thank you. And the goal here is that, that none of our current members are, are misplaced. So great. Thank you. And we, you're right. This has been years in the making. We, from what I understand, this started at the strategic, um, planning session in March of 2022. We had a committee workshop in June of 2023. This was discussed briefly at a September, 2024 work session. And then with final direction given at the February 14th, 2025 strategic planning session. Since that time, we met with the staff liaisons on April 17th, 2025 to run this by them, give them some time to give us their input on specifically on the duties, the function, purpose, scope, things like that. So that we feel as though we've got some logical groupings, we've taken a good approach, even those, some committees were struggling, some were not, it just seemed to be more aligned and we're trying to prevent any overlap. So this is what we've come up with, with all of those things in mind. And I have brought much of my, um, my desk to try to answer any questions, be prepared for any questions you may have. Okay. Well, can you, I think, walk through the, um, the committees that are being merged, what's being merged and how many members would be there and how that would work? I think that would be helpful. Of course. So, so if we were to have a social services or ADA advisory committee. That would be incorporating disability advisory committee and social services committee. So let me, let me ask you, maybe we can do this in the, in the kind of the order that we have the resolutions. Um, so where you have combined CEQS and SAC, maybe you can just walk through each of those one by one and say, we would be merging this and this, um, why that seemed like a good merge and then how many members would kind of come together. So that's, I'm going to do my best mayor. Okay. Okay. So first one, combining CEQS and SAC stormwater advisory and the committee on environmental quality and sustainability. There is some overlap there. Those two committees, they, they seem, um, I have to think that they're in favor of this. If the two of them, then this again is just becoming more aligned and preventing any overlap. They were not struggling with, with their quorum or anything like that. If they were to go today, these two would be 10, they currently combined would have, make sure I'm on my right one here, 10 regular members between the two. Now nine total would be what we'd want to get to, but if they were to merge two day, they would have 10 active members. Uh, I think it says 23. Yeah, that's okay. I think it says 23 members and it would be reduced, reduced round, down to nine over time. CEQS. So yes, 13 members are currently on CEQS, 12 member, but they do not have that many currently. Currently CEQS has six regular members. Oh, okay. And one alternate. Okay. Stormwater, 10 members. Okay. So they actually have less than what's listed in the. They, that would be currently 16 regular members and one alternate. Okay. All right. So. And the goal would be to get to nine. So what's actually in the resolution is a high, the highest number that they could have. What's actually. But not how many they do have. Or, or it could be that it was, this has been a moving target. That's so some people could have dropped off. Okay. At that moment. Okay. Okay. So. So that would be. Merging CEQS and stormwater advisory. Let me ask, let me ask the commission. Do you want to do, have Michelle go through all these, or if you have any questions about the merging of anyone, do you want to stop at each one and say, hey, do you have any particular questions? I'm okay with just going through the list and. And then ask questions. Yeah. Okay. Great. Okay. So we'll let you go ahead. Everybody good with that? Okay. So then our next one is going to be Causeway, Hammock, and Parks and Recreation. So Hammock, of the three of those, Hammock is struggling with, with some quorum. Hammock currently only has three regular members and one alternate. Causeway, eight regular members currently. Parks and Rec, eight regular members and one alternate. If those were to combine today, that would be 19 regular and two alternate. Okay. Okay. And again, those, uh, Causeway and Parks and Rec, they're not struggling, Hammock is. Hammock currently does not have quorum to meet. Okay. If we were to go to disability and social services, disability has not met since June of 2023. Social services met on January 20th. They currently have seven regular members. Disability does have a couple on the, on the roster, but they, it's been some time since they've been reappointed and disability struggled. And that was one of the, one of the meetings we had as a committee workshop in June of 2023. That was with the committee on aging, the disability committee and social services. Just trying to brainstorm ideas. If we were to move on then to Edgewater Drive advisory committee and public safety, Edgewater Drive, both of those are meeting regularly. Edgewater Drive last met on January 22nd, public safety on January 15th. Right now, Edgewater Drive has six regular, one alternate public safety has seven members. So that would be 13 and one alternate. So question on that. Um, actually this pertains to all of them really, uh, how much I'm, I'm assuming this was discussed in, in all of the committees in the interest of. So with the liaisons, it, this has been disseminated through the liaisons to the committees. And that has been progressively going on since we met in April, uh, since that, that liaison meeting on April 17th, 2025. From what I understand, their committee should not be surprised that we are having this discussion. Okay. Have we received any, any, uh, yeah. Can we hold until she's finished and then I'll start with you. Oh, sure. Okay. Sorry. That's okay. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. And then now moving on to the two recommended sunsets, that would be public relations, the, the public relations advisory board and the youth advisory committee, public relations. I believe they, the purpose, once Sue came on board, got her team on board and now has a firm handle on our marketing, our branding. I, she, that their purpose has somewhat been fulfilled. Youth advisory does struggle with, with quorum and it's, that's a tough one to prevent sunshine. They tend to communicate with one another. They're 12. Yeah. Yeah. So that's tough. Okay. And those are our recommendations, but I do have plenty of gear here for questions. May I add? Sure. Go ahead. City manager. Um, so, uh, I think that it's important to note, uh, that when we discussed this in April at the April workshop, uh, the commission was very concerned about, uh, our volunteers, uh, on committees who've been working hard for some of them for a number of years, uh, to support and advise the city commission. So our recommendation does not encompass anybody, um, being forced out or asked to leave a committee. Everybody who was on a committee now would remain on the committee. And then as they are termed out, then we would not fill that until we get down to the quorum. That's required by the resolution. Okay. I will go with a question. So I will start with vice mayor. Thank, thank goodness. I jumped the gun on that. So, um, I apologize for ignoring my. I was going to harass you about you. The first one that said, no, let's wait. Do that. And I'm beating you to the punch. Um, but you're good. It's hard to keep those in sometimes. Uh, so anyway, in the course of this, uh, in, in socializing this with the committees is, was there any, uh, any hesitation in terms of? The, the, the direction that we're taking on this or? Not that I'm aware. Hesitation. I'm, I'm sorry. Uh, well, I just, just any, any pushback, any. I, I, I can tell you, although I have received resignations, none of them referenced this. Some, one or two did reference that they felt like they were in limbo waiting for something to come to fruition. Okay. No, that's fair. Okay. That's all the questions I have. Okay. Uh, commissioner Sandberg and questions. So looking at that parks and rec committee, um, after special events, do they also have, um, input on maybe the athletic fields, soccer fields, baseball fields? If so, is that something maybe we could consider adding? Sure. Okay. Any, what you see there in green, those are just things to consider when we think about these, consolidate these revisions. Okay. Good. Now that would be the only question I would have. Thanks, Mayor. Great. Okay. Commissioner O'Gowell. I noticed that one and some, sorry. Some of the committees being proposed have the word advisory in them and some of them don't. So either I wanted to have some clarity or why there might be that distinction or request all of them, either, all of them for just clarity sake, have the word advisory or have advisory removed. Okay. And I think one of them was like parks and rec, just as parks and recreation committee as opposed to parks and recreation advisory committee. Commissioner, I certainly agree with you. I like that for consistency as well. We did not, these were the recommendations brought forward by the liaisons. We highlighted it just to leave the titles up. Anything that you saw highlighted, that was for you all to discuss. So I agree that for consistency purposes and for messaging to include the word advisory on any new titles would be preferable. That's good. All right. And since it appears that we have options now, leaving dinner or removing them all, I would propose we just add advisory to those that don't have, just historically, that's what we've always called them. That's the way we think of them. And I think it gives a sense of purpose on why they exist for the resident standpoint, that they are there to advise us. Okay. So I don't know how we would make that change or whether we need, and I'll let the mayor deal with the heavy lifting there. And then with the youth advisory sun setting, or that's the proposal, I, we, to me there's so much value in these advisory committees. I think it is one of those things that separate the city of Dunedin from other cities, and that we, we, we are consistently asking between advisory committees, surveys, how are we doing? What's important to you as a resident in the city? And so I'm concerned that we might be losing that with our youth. And so if this advisory committee sunsets, what, what is the mechanism now to engage our youth to make sure that, one, that they are valued in our community and they have a voice in our community? Sure. Commissioner Tony Mulkey, Parks and Recreation Director. We're going to continue to engage with the youth to try and form positive programming and bring that forward to the commission, that feedback. What, what that looks like right at this moment, I can't, can't tell you, but it is a priority of ours. As, as the clerk mentioned, the sunshine laws and the procedure, while, while we certainly want the, the youth to learn that, it, in practice, it isn't always perfect for that. So we, we'd certainly have that engagement with, with that age group, especially coming up through their teens. That's a tough one to kind of engage with, and we certainly want that feedback. So we would be committed to, to getting that and, in a valuable way that could be shared and disseminated, whether it's the formalized committee or, or some type of team board that we work with through our programming. I think we'll be able to accomplish that. Okay. I was going to say library too. They're very active team volunteer groups. So thank you, thank you for that, Mayor. And yeah, and this might be a comment, but it's, it's around Tony's response is that, and hopefully that any engagement that we have goes beyond pools and summer camps and, and libraries. I mean, it's a really an opportunity, especially where we are today to teach them about city government and what we do and how the, all the departments operate separately, but also together and, and why our community is the way it is. And so hopefully that would be, be part of that. So this is a, definitely a comment. So I think there's already a first grade class ready to come. Your neighbor might be talking to you about it from San Jose. Maybe. Yeah. So I'm just saying, I mean, I think those are better ways to spend your time because then the kids can really get more out of it versus worrying about sunshine law. But I think it's a good point. Yeah. Teaching about governments are so important. And other than that, I, I just have comments and no more questions, Mayor. Thank you. Okay. Questions, Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. It does appear as though I'm the last with the questions and last with some of the comments too. Just thought I'd mention that. Uh, first of all, uh, great job. Uh, a lot of, a lot of. I'll go to you first on, uh, final comments. Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and blend like my colleagues. Uh, um, couple of questions. We've now divided boards and committees. I'd like to understand that distinction and why we're calling some boards and some committees. I'm not sure I have an answer for that. I can help. Yes, please. Team, team approach. Yes. So actually there are some, um, boards that are required, uh, within our charter, actually. And the board of finance is one of them. Okay. And then the, the LPA is actually the planning and zoning board of the city of Dunedin and is designated as such. So, uh, in regards to all, uh, land development actions. So those that are boards are designated as boards either by the charter or by the city commission. Um, and then the advisory committees are established by resolution. Good. Good answer. Good answer. Um, and just for nomenclature reasons. Um, I look at that first list, the seven boards, and we don't use consistently the word board. Uh, there's an agency and an authority and a trust inside there just so that we make that distinction if we're talking, you know, uh, to our pedant selves. Um, so we have that and we understand our committees. Um, what is the, when we, do we have a general responsibility, um, description for all of our committees or each committee has its own? Each committee has its own. Okay. Very good. Uh, and this means if this is passed, we move from, good gosh, 24 committees and boards down to 20. So we're basically net four down. Is that a correct statement? Yes, sir. Okay. Uh, just wanted to be sure I understood what we're doing. I concur with my colleague, uh, Commissioner Gow on engagement of youth. I think we need to be intentional about that. And I wouldn't mind seeing that, uh, ensconced in some of our advisory committee, uh, descriptions of responsibility. With that being said, I will save the rest of my, uh, time for comments. Thank you, Mayor. Um, thank you. Um, so just clarification. So, um, looking and I'm thinking one, two, three, four. I think we're down seven, aren't we? Because if we merge environmental quality and stormwater, that's one. Parks and rec with causeway and hammock, that's three. Uh, disability and social services, that will get rid of one. Uh, public safety, edgewater goes into one, so that's five. And then sunset two, so that's down seven. Created one. Yeah. Right. Golf. Well, that's true. Back up one. There we go. Trying to do the math. Yep. Okay. So, okay. Just so, you know. Either way, um, either way, I think it's a streamlining issue. Um, so, um, I just want to drill down a little bit because it's almost, um, uh, is there, there has to be some pushback somewhere of someone feeling like, seriously? If I had to name one? Yes. Causeway. The causeway. Okay. And what, what are their concerns about being merged into a rec and parks board? Maybe losing. Or wait, is it rec and parks? Yes. Parks and Recreation and Advice. Go ahead. Losing their, their voice. Causeway's pretty specific. They get watered down. Their message will get watered down. Okay. Yeah. And so, and so what would be, Tony, what would, what's your response with that? Sure. We, we've had feedback both with the, the parks and recreation committee as well as the, the causeway committee concerns about the organization and how that would function. Uh, they, the, the causeway's concerned, obviously they, they want to make sure their issues get considered front and center. And, and one of the things I think we need to do as liaisons with the city is make sure that, that we help guide the agendas and, and the actions on there to make sure that the, the room is carved out for causeway issues or hammock issues or. Kind of like a standard agenda item or something. Correct. Or causeway issues specifically or something. Yeah, I, I think just kind of going through the meeting protocol with the, the committees as a whole and, and, and really making sure that's structured and actionable, uh, meetings that, that end up discussing things without action are, are somewhat pointless at times. Uh, so we want to make sure that we're moving things forward. Uh, everything's getting considered that, that the constituents want to be included. Um, one of the things that, that I've seen is, is, is while they're very specialized focus on the causeway and the Dunedin beach and things out there, macro level, when we're trying to plan, we want consistency. We, we want those voices on if, if it's the Dunedin trail or the, the Pinellas trail or the Dunedin causeway trail, we want to make sure we're consistent with that. And if it's system wide and, and kind of that umbrella under parks and recreation, we're, we're going to have a better shot at that. So in a sense, so it's not, everybody's not siloed. Correct. You're thinking, everybody's thinking about the same issues together. Cause there are plenty of crossovers. You're right. Absolutely. Okay. Uh, any other area of, I mean, you know, if you miss one, anybody else that comes to mind when you think about that's crazy, why are they doing that to us? Da, da, da, da, da. No, ma'am. Okay. All right. And I'm sure, you know, I mean, obviously it's something new, but I mean, I, I have to say, I heard a lot more as we started this about, you know, we don't have enough mission. We don't have enough purpose. What are we supposed to do? Uh, obviously a huge part of the driver of this wasn't just the efficiency of it. And so many committees, but it was also, so the, the people that were serving felt like they were really on something with meat to it. So, um, and as somebody who used to be on the staff, it's a lot to handle all the committees. So it's, it's also a efficiency from that end of things. So, um, okay. Uh, let's see what other questions I have. Um, so looking at all these, and I know residency is in all these, um, and I know we had the residency glitch and we talked about a little bit with the golf club. So, so then are all, do all our committees then have the residency clarified now that you have to be a resident? No, ma'am. There are two that do not mention residency. That is local planning agency and architectural review committee. And why would that be? Why would there be? Well, architectural review committee, actually architectural review committee. And that is one that was created. We're thinking of ones that have been created, um, in the last few years. Um, and that is because there, you seat those, uh, positions according to discipline. There's a landscape architect, there's an architect, uh, I believe there's an engineer, um, and a planner on there. And, and, you know, there is a possibility that we may not be able to find those positions as residents in the city of Dunedin. They may work in Dunedin. They may, you know, be a professional architect in Dunedin, but they may not live in Dunedin. And so we wanted to, to allow ourselves a little bit of flexibility in, in appointing. And as far as the LPA goes, I do not know why it, it doesn't stipulate. It certainly should. I think my, my suspicion on that is that you were probably just, um, following the statute and the, and using the statutory language, which doesn't have a residency requirement. But we could have easily had that, right? I mean. I think you probably could, but I'm just saying, I think that you were following that, um, within the statute. Right. Because that is one of the statutory delegated committees. Okay. So, I don't know. I mean, I think we should at least look at that and, you know, maybe consider that. Not necessary right now. And they are, I will say there are others that have exceptions. Right. That, that allow for one member to not be a resident. And those, those except arts and culture, disability, committee on aging, hammock advisory, parks and recreation, and military veterans advisory. Those all have a very small window of exception to the resident. Because of a certain skill set. Yes. That somebody brings. Correct. Okay. All right. Well, I, I just think that since we're looking at our committees, we should look at those, at things and, and try to create as much consistency, just like you said, with the advisory. It was a great catch. Um, I just, so I just think as much consistency that we have, so we don't have the glitch that we just had, um, on, um, you know, non-residents being on the committee, so. So, so just for a point of clarification, then, as we. Not that we don't love our non-residents. I mean, they're in our programs, but they're not the taxpayers. We don't love them as much as our residents. We can say that, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, at, just a point of clarification, Mayor, as we bring these resolutions back to you one by one, you want us to look at that particular requirement as, as it relates to that committee that we've consolidated? Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Okay. Any guess things? All right. Okay. And, Mayor, if I can, just because it piggybacks to your question and your comment. Then I'm going to go to public comment. Okay. When it does, I'm, and Jennifer, you might have been answering that question, but for your comment on there are some special situations within an individual advisory committee, are any of those advisory committees that you mentioned being combined? The, the, the one disability, hammock advisory, and parks and recreation. Okay. And so I guess, yeah, as you're combining them, look at that specific, and if it's no longer needed, then take it out, just, if anything, for consistency. Or if it is, make sure when it comes back to us that that's pointed out and this is why. Because, you know, just like the golf one with the ex-officio members, I mean, you can have somebody there for expertise as an ex-officio, but they're not a voting member. Right. You know, so, anyway, so, yeah, so as you look at that, that'd be great. Okay, I'm going to go to public comment. Anyone in the audience today wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Come forward. Name, address, and, and three minutes. How are you today? Long wait, right? Yeah. Good morning. Nancy Schmidt, 1380 Daffodil Place. And I'm glad I was able to come here this morning and thank Joe for sending out a reminder memo. I am the current chair of the Causeway Advisory. Just a couple of observations and comments. We were told that a tremendous driving force to this was the amount of time that the staff spend on all these committees. And I just wonder if it was ever considered to make them every other month, maybe cut down on some of these meetings instead of just combining everybody. And that was one thing. And, um, I know a lot of the, um, committees aren't particularly active. Um, and so I think sometimes you just get a waning, um, number of members. Uh, always happens to be particularly active. Um, and I, you mentioned the Causeway Advisory is having some concerns. I think there isn't a member on the Causeway Advisory that is, um, for this. I mean, we all have great reservations that what we're working on on the Causeway is just very unique. Um, we don't see ourselves merging with any of the other recommendations. And as a citizen, when I first considered, um, signing up for a, uh, advisory committee, I took into consideration my background, my interests, where I thought my voice might be of some value, and that's how I wound up on this committee. Um, I'm also on the Marine Advisory because I'm a, a very active voter as well. So, I just don't see myself, honestly, on some of these other committees with the same level of interest. And I, I know there has been some discussion how it could be structured so we have a voice and we'd be able to deal with the issues that are important to us. Um, but it's just not the same. It really isn't. If I was signing up for committee today and these were all, all in one, uh, I'm not sure where I would fit with all three of them together. So, anyway, my comments. Thank you. Thank you, Nancy. Appreciate that. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak? Okay. Uh, name and address for the record and three minutes. Ron Matuska, 1108 Haley Lane. I also am a member of the Causeway Committee. And just a procedural question. For those committees that are combining, that are going to start with more than their allocated members, what constitutes a quorum for those? Is it the, the, the number of the committee or the number who are actually serving at the time? You go ahead. Yeah, go ahead, Nancy. Sure. It would be a moving target based on the number of members at that time. So, the quorum is the moving target. So, half the, half plus one. One more than half. Yes, sir. Thank you. Okay. Um, anyone else come forward? Kathleen, uh, name and address for the record and three minutes. Hi. My name is Kathleen St. Martin. I reside at 428 Orangewood Drive, Dunedin, Florida. I am the current secretary of the Causeway Committee. And I have to reinforce everything Nancy said. The individuals on that committee are there because of their vested interest in the Causeway. What I know we've sent the, um, city manager and the commission a letter regarding, uh, motorized watercraft. That is a huge issue on the Causeway. We have really devolved into resolving that. And if you pull us away and put us with parks and recs and the hammock committee, you're going to lose that passion. And like Nancy said, yes, it does take time away from a city employee to come and sit there. But we are committee who meets for one hour. We're not talking a two hour meeting or an hour and a half meeting. If we go five or ten minutes over, that's about as far as it goes. And if we could go every other month or give us a chance to stay by ourselves, I don't think anybody on this committee would regret that decision. Thank you. Thank you, Kathleen. Um, anyone else, uh, in the audience? Okay. Come forward. Name and address for the record and three minutes. How are you doing? Hi. Jason Williams, 111986 Braymore. Um, I think as you guys know who I am, I'm a big advocate for youth in the area. Um, so I have the same concerns as some other people. I've been, as you guys know, I'm on one of the boards, but I also go to a lot of the other boards, uh, meetings and time is of the essence in a lot of them. And when you combine all these boards together and you're going to throw 23 people into one parks and rec board, time's going to run out pretty quick. You're going to have 23 voices there talking all at once and all about the different issues and you're never going to get it done, get anything done. I'm sure that will come to pass. So you guys have planned that out pretty well. At that point though, um, I think said, youth does not have a strong voice in these, um, on these boards. There's not like, uh, like the golf clubs can now getting its own committee. Marina gets its own committee. We don't really have a board or committee that has a, something that has a permanent voice for the baseball, the little league guys, or the soccer club that I advocate for. So if we could have a permanent seat at the table on the parks and rec committee, or at least a seat, maybe an ex, what's that? Exoficio. Exoficio. Exoficio. So that we would have somebody there who's actually relaying information on a daily basis and you guys would see and hear the information that's required for the decisions that are being made. I think that would go over well. Thank you, James. Okay. Mayor, if I can speak to that. Sure. The current parks and recreation advisory committee allows for one member to be a youth member. Okay. Come forward to the mic, Jason. I'm talking about somebody from the actual soccer club or from the little league on the boards from those clubs or from, um, pickleball or wherever. Somebody who goes to these actual events and the youth can be, you know, served as somebody who knows that information could be on there. Understood. Um, okay. Thank you, Jason. Anyone else in the audience wish to speak on the issue? Only one shot at it, Kathleen. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. Um, so, okay. So, uh, okay. We're going to close public input. Um, city manager, any, any comments about some of those concerns? I think as far as the, the, the, um, coastal and causeway, causeway and coastal, which the CC committee, anyway, um, I don't, I don't, you know, really whatever the commission wants to do with that staff is fine with, but I don't think that the voice would be lost. I think that, that the committees, when they meet, there will be a special line item for, for, you know, that subject, whether it's, it's motorized watercraft on the causeway or whatever it is. Um, and I think actually it would benefit from, uh, additional input, not just those people who, who are on that committee or live in that area or, um, but those that, that live in the broader part of the city who also have a say in what happens and who use the causeway and so on and so forth. So, um, I think it's just kind of the same thing as, I hate to bring it up, but, but term limits, you know, a lot of people are very concerned, but let's let this run its course. And if, if, you know, in the case of the, of the, uh, the Parks and Rec Advisory Committee, if, you know, in a year we revisit this, which we might, might actually want to do, find out how everything's going, then, um, we could, we could talk about bifurcating again, but I think that we need to give it a shot. Um, the, the meeting is an hour. Uh, it can go a little bit longer if you're combining all these together, cause you would probably need to go hour, hour and a half. So, um, I don't, I, you know, I don't think it's, it, it, that they're mutually exclusive, that you must be your own standalone committee in order to be heard. Um, uh, and I think that it's, it's important to note moving forward that, that the, like I said, the minutes of the meeting are always afforded to the city commission and, and the city manager's office for you to read. Uh, the voice will always be heard. Um, so, uh, but that said, whatever the commission feels that you would like to do is, is, you know, this is a discussion, uh, for a consensus direction. Well, I wonder, um, Tony, if, have you met with the different boards, the two, like Wreck and Parks, Hammock, and, and Causeway Group? I've met with Causeway and Parks and Rec on this. So have you already talked about how, you know, you could accommodate for that to make sure that they're not lost or it's, it's been a topic of discussion, but concern, I think as it moves forward, that's how it would need to evolve once you get everybody in the room to figure that out. Um, but it's, it's been a topic of discussion for months and, and it's, it's one of those things that we're, we're at a point without action on this, uh, we're kind of stagnant because of numbers and things like that. We haven't appointed new members for quite a while. Okay. Um, and I think, uh, Commissioner Gard had a question. Uh, this is a hybrid question slash comment, Tony, your staff staffing the committees you're facing in a given period, for instance, each month, how many of these committees are you or a member of your staff attending? Uh, per month, there's at least one per week, uh, and typically multiple. Um, yeah, there's, there's, as looking through the, the list of, uh, the 24 or 25, uh, committees that are kind of standing, uh, there's quite a commitment on it. Um, you know, I, I don't, I don't necessarily, uh, subscribe to that as overbearing, but it is a lot and it is sometimes duplicative on the topics that we're discussing. And that's kind of why I said that umbrella or that macro level look at things. I'll finish my comments. Thank you. Okay. Um, deciding whether this is a question I really want to ask. Um, obviously if there's a specific issue of critical importance that you can't handle on the actual board meeting, I mean, are there any offshoot subcommittees that happen because of that or just for that issue, almost like a little mini task force? Or is that just adding to the workload? Uh, there'd be some challenges with the sunshine and just trying to notice that and, and put it together. It's almost better to extend and deal with it at the committee level. But it, again, it does overlap sometimes that something that one committee would be discussing might impact the other. Yeah. I mean, I, I think the watercraft, um, memo that you guys did, which was very good. I don't think that will get lost no matter what. Even if you had a hundred people on there, I don't think it's going to get lost, but, uh, but I, I get it. I get your concerns and, and, and, you know, um, I understand. Um, okay. So, um, on that note, um, I guess we'll go to, uh, comments and I'm going to start as I promised with, uh, commissioner to garden final comments. Thank you, mayor. Um, at last first, um, how's it feel? Yeah. I'm not sure where to start. Um, couple of things. The reason I asked that question a moment ago was because we balance a very difficult issue here. One is community input and representation up against efficiency and, um, just functional systems. And right now we're trying to find a way to keep that community representation while also giving voice. Uh, and it, that's a difficult balance for us to achieve, but I believe that's the intent behind this. With that being said, I've also noticed that one of the things that's not represented here, and maybe I'm missing it and could have been a question that if I thought about it, I would have done it. Um, actually the sound is the largest body of area in the city. When you take a look at Dunedin, it says 21 square miles. The sound is the largest portion of that because the city is only nine. Um, so we don't have a sound committee and yet I think we probably need one. So I'm going to put that on the table in my comments as something I'd like to look at. Now, I understand we have a marina and we've had a causeway, so I don't know how we manage the sound. And because it's so large and such an asset, I'd like to get some answers on that. Um, I'm generally in agreement with what we're seeing here. This will be a little like the Wright brothers. The first time you fly, it's going to go 120 feet and then we get better and better and better. So I think that's what we've got here and I'm looking forward to the evolution of how this moves forward. Thank you, mayor. Okay. Commissioner Gow. Thank you, mayor. Um, I like what my colleague said regarding the sound and it gets important, but where does the sound fall? Does the sound with the coastal, uh, advisory committee, does it fall with CEQ and environmental? And the farther we, we go, um, everything could fall under CEQ, right? And there's such an environmental impact with everything that we do. But we have been talking about this for a, a very long time. Um, and there's always been the struggle of staff time and involvement versus, uh, the necessity, uh, and need of hearing from our residents on what concerns them. Um, uh, and trying to balance that has always been, that's why it's taken so long to get to us while we've been talking about it, uh, since April of 2025, if not before then, it's taken this long to get here because of the, what do we do with it? How do we do with it? Things of that nature and wanting everybody to be included. Uh, so I certainly understand the struggle. I wonder for those that are being combined, because these are agendas that the intent is to be created by the committees that are there and what's, what's on the next agenda. Um, and so for the purpose of like the, the, the causeway committee, can we ask that for those, for any committees being, um, integrated, can we actually have an acknowledgement on the agenda of each one of those, almost treating them as a subcommittee, although they are not having separate meetings, just to acknowledge that each of those former committees, there's something there. So it doesn't get lost that all of a sudden the concerns of the coastal committee don't get lost in hammock or parks and rec stuff that there's, there'll always be a placeholder for those types of discussions. Um, also, um, and Jason, I might talk with you afterwards, but I'm interested, have there been any youth committees at the soccer club to talk about the things at the soccer club? Um, uh, Tony, does Dunning Little League have any sort of youth, uh, advisory committee in and of itself? So they get feedback, um, from, uh, the youth and possibly parents, but, but the youth and, and how do they visualize, uh, the Little League? Uh, I am concerned about losing the voice of our youth and, and how we can do to encourage that in some way, shape or form. I know that Sunshine is an incredibly big deal at the youth level because they don't get it. They don't understand it. And pretty soon they're talking among themselves. Um, I, I've been out of touch with the city of Largo, but from my understanding, the city of Largo does a good job or they had with their youth, uh, even to the point of taking a group to Tallahassee, right? From a civic point of view. And so they've really done some really good things there, how it works, how it functions. Is it still functioning that way? I don't know, but that's food for thought. Um, uh, uh, and so that's, you know, uh, as long as we do this, so it adds to the efficiency, but the, the residents aren't losing their voice, which really is one of those things that, that makes Dunning unique is we are consistently and continually reaching out to our residents and asking for their input. Um, uh, as long as we're, if we're achieving those goals, then I am trying to respect staff time and understand, especially parks and rec because you have one liaison that almost spends their entire time dealing with advisory committees. Um, and so I certainly do appreciate that. Um, unless you've split that up and I'm not sure who the liaisons are anymore, but I assume they're one to two, but anyway, that's all that I have. So thank you, uh, vice mayor, final comments. Thank you, mayor. Um, so yeah, so first of all, yeah, but this has been a, this has been a project for quite, quite a long period of time. And I will say that, uh, this iteration is certainly improved over the others been specifically the iteration that we saw during, uh, last year's budget and strategic planning. Um, because I, you know, I think for the most part, the alignments look, um, look acceptable. Uh, there were some really good points made up, uh, by Nancy, Ronnie, and Kay with regards to the, the process and, and how, how we merge those agendas. And this also goes back to, you know, what, uh, Commissioner Gao just said, um, and a subsequent unintended consequence of that will be that, um, we really are going to lose some actual components. And so I think in addition to this, and I, I'm, this is, this really, this is good. This is a, this is a good discussion. Uh, this is a good recommendation that we have before us, but there are some things in here that we essentially, I think we're going to take another look at. Um, first and foremost, uh, I'm in full agreement. The Causeway Advisory Committee needs to be, be standalone because of the fact they have unique and different challenges. And it's, uh, to the point of Commissioner Dugard, it's, it's, it's, it's a large, it's a large amount of real estate. And, uh, I will say there's, so just to kind of name a few of those, which are uniquely different to the, to the, to the hammock and to the rest of the parks is, is first of all, the jet skis, you know, that, that part of it is, you know, just to drive that point home. Uh, I heard from one of the park rangers just recently that the, uh, the return of the, of the, of the natural environment of the Causeway has, has improved significantly since we stopped letting jet skis drop in on the Causeway. And I, you know, that's a unique challenge. And so I, I think we, we need to relook at that part of it because I do think that they should be still standalone, you know, whether they meet monthly or bimonthly. But I, I really appreciate those comments because that also goes to, you know, I'm, I'm picturing these, these combinations and I'm just trying to picture in my head how those agendas get merged. And that part of it, I, I see a lot of dilution. And, um, so anyway, that's, that's my, that's my, uh, position on that. I also want to just make a quick mention about the Edgewater Advisory Committee and the Public Safety Committee. Um, Public Safety Committee is, in my opinion, and having attended the meetings has been, you know, been focused on public safety. The Edgewater Advisory Committee has been, that, that public safety is, is part of what they are concerned with. But there, there's a lot of other things. And actually this, there, there's overlap in the parks and recreation area when you start looking at the medium strip and you start looking at, uh, you know, flooding concerns and, you know, those sorts of things. So, uh, to just summarize this, you know, I, I think we definitely need to take another look at the causeway. And I think that part of that, not part of that, but, uh, with a similar perspective, we need to, um, kind of approach it from the Edgewater and public safety. Now, what I don't want to do is create or cause this to come to a full halt because we definitely need to do this. I just want to make sure that we've, you know, essentially addressed this. And the one thing I, and I, I just, I, I think probably this has been socialized with the committees to a point, but, you know, we've got, maybe since that happened, like for instance, the Edgewater Advisory Committee has a new president, chairman, uh, you know, I just, I want to make sure that we're, we're, we're being smart about this. So those are my comments. Commissioner Sandberg. It's very interesting what, uh, commission or vice mayor Walker just said, uh, you know, that, uh, Dunedin Causeway really, you know, I'm not sure many, much construction has even started, you know, we're going on a year and a half and, uh, I would like to see the, uh, the Causeway and Coastal Waterway Committee stay as its own committee. You know, we're adding a lot to Tony's plate. And in a second, I'm going to add to what Jason just said, probably even more, you know, I, you know, the, the, the, the jet skis came up, the, you know, the improvement of the, the quality of the sea life. I think you guys have done a heck of a good job and I would strongly suggest that that committee be allowed to stay standalone. I mean, you showed up today, you came forward, not a lot of people did. And, uh, there's something to be said about that. And I think the work, there's a lot of work ahead, maybe a little bit's been done, but man, I, you know, you can imagine the emails we get and the comments we get and I'll move on from that. But I think that that committee should stay. Jason, when I was the president of Duny Little League, one of my biggest problems, I never felt like anybody listened to me and I would love to see, you know, we talk about the youth advisory. Yeah. Is that the youth themselves or is that the adults who are responsible for soccer, for Little League scouts? You know, we can maybe get the input of these youth without bringing the youth in. And I, so I'm wide open for suggestions on that. And I appreciate where you're going with that because, uh, you know, they're important to us. And, you know, back in the day, we had 400, 450 kids at Duny Little League. That was a lot of parents and, uh, there's a lot of voices and a lot of opinions. So I, I think you may be onto something there and hopefully we can resolve that. You know, years ago, I was a committee chair and we had a meeting called, it was called the Council of Chairs. It was at the public library or the Duny library and the chair of each committee got together and it's funny, tell what their committee did. And it allowed everybody in the room a chance to listen and contribute. And we realized at that time there was some overlap and, uh, you know, that's just something I, I, I, I know there's so much on everybody's plate and I understand your staff. I've been around for a long time and I, I know how, how thin they're spread and it's, it, it is, we'll streamline and hopefully free up a little bit of time for your people. But, you know, that, that, that, when we had that meeting, it was a chance for everybody to get together. There, uh, you know, with, with that being said, I, I, I, I know this is, this is something we've talked about for, it's been talked about for a long time and, uh, I'm fully in favor of doing it, but let's take a hard look to make sure we don't overdo it at the beginning. So that's all I have, mayor. Thank you. Okay. Well, my fault, these are my final comments. If you can see them, I'm not sure how they're going to come out. I got one, two, three. Um, well, I mean, first of all, a linchpin for the need and the citizen input, um, community involvement, and so we don't want to hurt that. Um, but if you talk to any other city, county, I mean, we're like way off the charts, way off the charts, and we're proud of that. But again, when you go too far off the charts, you water down the input. It's not as impactful because you have too much. And, and I think, well, I, I say that we get, we get it by many things, including our citizen survey, but, um, I think efficiency is important here. Um, you know, sometimes I think too many committees scattering around doesn't give you the power of the punch that you want. So you have one rec and parks committee and people are all on board with this and you've got a bigger power of the punch versus having, you know, eight different side subcommittees, right? So, um, I do think that we have to think about that. It's not, that's not reflecting what I think about the causeway committee. Um, so, I mean, that's just one thought. I mean, sometimes you, you water things down by having too much versus one overarching big picture, not having conflicting opinions in two different things because you're not looking at it jointly, um, if that makes sense. Um, the, the whole point with this was just that, I mean, respecting and embracing our continued importance of community input, creating more efficiencies. Again, I'll say it as somebody who's been on both sides of this, as a staff person, there's just nothing worse than a committee that doesn't know what they, they want to do, that they don't have enough purpose there. It's just, you're trying to figure it out while you're doing your regular job, while you're trying to figure it to help them figure it out. And then again, it's just not necessarily the most efficient thing to do. Everybody's frustrated. And I got a lot of that from people, you know, what are we supposed to do? Um, clearly you guys don't have that issue. So, um, your comment on the sound, like I could argue that that, that's very much environmental quality and what, what, our waterways are a huge part of that. So again, it kind of splits out almost some of the issues with you guys, but there's a crossover with environmental quality. Um, um, definitely if we move forward with, uh, the, any of these mergers, to me, the verbiage needs to be in the new resolution. Like I'm looking at the Wreck-and-Parks one and maybe, is it there? Is the actual Causeway wording of their purpose within the new Wreck-and-Parks resolution? Because I didn't actually see it. I think definitely you'll lose, you'll definitely lose it if it's not there. Is it there? Okay, so, so it's driven into the ordinance. Number two of committee duties states study all issues of public safety, con, concessionaire activity, commercial uses of the Causeway, its adjacent waters, public enjoyment of the Causeway, beach maintenance, policy regarding environmental concerns of the Causeway, its adjacent waters, and the ultimate effect on St. Joseph's Sound. And that's pretty much verbiage out of Causeway resolution now? Is that what that is? Um, I would have to go and check. No, no, no, that's okay, but the intent was to bring all that kind of wording into the new resolutions. Okay, um, so, yeah, I mean, I, I'm definitely in favor of this. I mean, there are pieces that maybe we can take a second look at. Um, I'm definitely thinking environmental quality stormwater makes sense. Parks and Wreck, merge it with Hammock. Um, Causeway, you know, maybe we just need to look closer at that one to see if there's enough differentiation. If you don't merge them, then I would make, you know, back-to-back meetings so that one staff person comes, you're in the same place, you know, you do back-to-back meetings, so there's not a, you save that efficiencies. Uh, disability and social services, I'm in favor of merging those. And public safety and Edgewater Drive, I'm in favor of merging those. And again, I think you can do the same thing on the agenda with Edgewater Drive issues. You can call it out. But then, then again, I think that you get into, well, what about, I know, you know, I'm on Michigan. Why can't we have a Michigan? And, you know, why can't we have a Braemore? Why can't we have the roadways in, on Santa Barbara Drive? Can we have a Santa Barbara Drive? Because we're across from the water. Um, I just think that makes sense to merge that. And I think there was a purpose for setting that aside at one time. And I think it can easily be achieved within those, that, that one, uh, multimodal. So, um, those are my views. I don't know. You guys threw me for a loop. Because you're all here and you're speaking, you know, uh, soundly for wanting to keep it that way. And so maybe, uh, you know, maybe that's just kind of the exception of what you've recommended. And, and we just give that a chance to fill its way out with the, with the mission of at one point joining. And so we do some efficiencies of, you know, back-to-back meetings and things like that. And, and, and we just kind of let that evolve a little longer before we actually, boom, you know, force you all out when you really don't want to be out. And you have a passion for that. And, uh, maybe that cures some of, uh, Commissioner DeGardt's comment too, that somebody's looking at the waterways. Um, but I'm just the mayor. So, uh, let's see what, where we're at. Um, I think we have to give, um, some direction to staff. So I'm going to go one by one. Um, are we good with environmental quality and stormwater being merged? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Are we good with recreation, parks, causeway, and hammock being merged? Yes. Say that again. Say that. Say that again. Parks and recreation and causeway and hammock being merged into parks and recreation? Uh, no. No. So you would like causeway pulled out for now? Yes. Anyone else want causeway pulled out for now? I can do that. Yes. I'm good with that. We can slow that train. We can slow that train. Doesn't mean we're not headed there. Okay? So, I just think, clearly when you have that kind of passion, I'm not going to sit up here and say, no. Um, at least I'm not. And it sounds like the most of us are. Um, it probably is the efficient thing to do. And I bet you'd be surprised that it could really work. But let's just go it a little slower, maybe. Is that okay? Yes. Okay? So now you're talking about parks and rec. So now we're talking, so hammock would merge into parks and rec. Is everybody good with hammock merging into parks and rec? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, good. So Causeway, for now, would stay stand-alone with the goal of merging in the future, but in pulling some efficiencies. Is everybody good with that? Yes. Yes. For the record, I think Nancy's suggestion to meet every other month is a good one as well on that. Okay. They're a good catch. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That would help, too. Then we can always leave those up to those committees, right? Because I know Stormwater met quarterly. Yes. So. Well, even quarterly. But I think she's saying, at most, that way it reduces. So that's good. And I would still say, maybe one of the meetings should be a combined meeting. Kind of get used to that feel. So. Okay. Disability and Social Service. Is everybody okay with merging those? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Public Safety and Edgewater Drive. Everybody okay with merging those? No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. How about Commissioner DeGuard? Yes. Okay. So four to one. We'll move forward with that. And then sunsetting Public Relations Advisory Committee and Youth Advisory with obviously the goal of making sure we focus on youth in a different way. Everybody good with that? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I think we have, you have your direction. And great job. This is tough. I mean, you know, when it started out, as a matter of fact, I was still running for mayor. I said, we are not doing this while I'm running for mayor. As I am not ticking off a bunch of people. But I think that the way that we did it over time is good. It's hard to pull back. But I think we've done some efficiency changes here. And we appreciate you guys as being willing to kind of think along this route with us too. And we certainly appreciate your passion. Can I just make a point? Yes. Okay. So let me just, because I, in terms of, and again, Edgewater and public safety, theoretically, I am, I'm not opposed to merging them. But the way that this definition is written needs to be broadened. Okay. Multimodal, that's just one aspect. And so, you know, just by, you know, making sure, full transparency, because of the fact I live a block away from them, I've been invited to the meetings on a regular basis. And all I want to do is make sure that everything that the Edgewater Advisory Committee is focused on somehow gets incorporated into this, because it's more than multimodal. And that part, and again, this kind of goes back to what I said in the comments, because they, and again, I'm very much in favor of this. However, the next step is building a process by which we merge these committees, because what we don't want to do is lose the challenges and the issues that each of the individual committees have, if that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. And I'm glad you said it, because I did worry a little bit about public safety and Edgewater going into just multimodal, that maybe, is it not broad enough? And I get where you're trying to go, so I wasn't going to bring it up, but now that you brought it up, I mean, it was definitely something I thought about. So maybe it's something you guys can think about. Is that tagged correctly? Is it inclusive enough? We will do that. It's a really great point. Yeah, I mean, so you go forward with the recommendation to merge them, but let's take another look at how that resolution is written. Okay, very good. That's a great suggestion. Thank you. So just to clarify, we're going to move forward with those resolutions by consensus direction. You're supporting the consolidation of, we're going to hold back on Edgewater Drive Advisory Committee and come back with a resolution that's a little bit broader and encompasses the mission of the Edgewater Drive Advisory. I mean, you're going to come back with that, but you're just going to do, make sure it's inclusive enough. Right. You're going to hold back on the Causeway Committee. Yes, and the Causeway Committee will be separated, will not be consolidated. Right, with the intent of additional changes to, you know, make you guys think a little bit better. Yeah, what else do, and no, I think we all agreed advisory should be in the title, but we're all in agreement that that is a good, because we do know there are one or two committees that think they're the last stop. So it's good to have advisory in there. And then you're also going to bring back any other inconsistencies in all the ordinances that you might see that we need to basically make sure we've got that covered. Number one being residency, but I'm sure there might be something else though. Yes. Okay. We're good? So one more thing that I could add. Sure. Just thank you for the direction, and Michelle has been working on this since she started here in the city of Dineen. Yeah, she's over it now. It's been a long time coming, and she did a super job with that. But one thing to Commissioner Sam Bergen's comment about the chairs of the committees getting together once a year to kind of share what they accomplished throughout the year. And we also used to do a sunshine, kind of a refresh with the chairs of the committees. We stopped doing that during COVID. So I think it's actually a great idea to start that up again. I believe we used to do it in December. And one evening, usually the mayor would come, and I would come, and the city attorney would be there too for the sunshine refresh and just kind of a, how'd you do this year? And the chairs of the committees, they like to be together, they like to talk to each other about the direction. And that's what I found. There's a lot of camaraderie in that room. That's when I was a chair of the stadium advisory committee. And to hear what everybody else does, you really, you know, I know there was, you know, forming of, you know, committees working together. And I realized, again, I know Jen and, you know, Mayor, your calendars are full. I get that. But I think maybe it was, it was at the library, maybe an hour, hour and a half, very structured and got to the point quick. And that was, you know, if it happened again, I would love to attend myself again, just to listen to the input from the, from the chairs. Thank you. I'm sorry with the commission. That sounds good. You know, back in the day, we had, you know, we had a dinner for all the boards and committees and talk about comradeship. I mean, it was that, that plus some, I mean, I'm not suggesting we add anything back into the budget, but for what you're suggesting, let's at least have a good layout of some food too, you know, nice snacks. Sure. So, you know, always give people food and always make them happy. And then with the training, because, you know. I can bake cookies. Yeah. Okay. You said it. You're committed to it now. Okay. She said she's going to bake cookies. So, Kathleen, stay on that. Okay. Okay. I don't, I think we're, any other items for the good of the order? City manager? City attorney? Okay. Just informational. I did brief the commission yesterday with the exception of Commissioner Sandbergen, because I had not, I had an opportunity at that point. He was the first agenda review. The 227 Lynnhurst, which is the Elevate Florida property that, that they're asking us whether or not we want to acquire it. And I can, I can brief you further, Commissioner Sandbergen. It does need to be on the city commission agenda for Thursday under city manager's update. So, I will be doing that. I talked to Jennifer Cowan. I told you that I would ask her and it does need to be a city commission decision. Makes sense. It makes sense. Consensus direction. Yes. So, and Commissioner Sandbergen, you and I can talk a little bit about it when we're done. You and I touched base on it just a little bit. So, I'll be fine. I thought I would, didn't. A couple weeks ago. Oh, we did. That's right. Yes. Yes. I'm familiar with what you're talking about. More efficient than I thought. Lots of balls in the air. Michelle, do you have anything? Nothing else? Okay. You know, you're going to kill me for bringing this up right now. I'm sorry. I should have given you a heads up. We had, yeah, she's not going to be happy I brought it up, but I got to bring it up. I've been thinking about it all night long. So, we had the Fairway Estates presentation last night and it really went great. It really did. A lot of great questions that they had and we probably were, you know, on it for like an hour. But one thing that came up, and you said that you want to do this, lay it out, that, you know, we just need to explain it better. The restrooms. The restrooms. The restrooms at the park and the cost of it. They're just, there's just a lot of talk about people that know cost of things and a couple of them were there last night and they were just like, well, yeah, but it has to be the plumbing then. It can't be. So, I just think we have to, maybe Thursday night, you know, when you think it's appropriate, lay out why that thing costs what it does. I would be happy to. Because at a time when we're really working hard to be efficient with money, you know, I just think we've got to explain it better. It's not understood and it doesn't feel right. And so, it's looking like we're just not thinking enough wisely about the money. So, thank you because I've had people approach me like I could build it for this much and that would be great if we could bring that and some explanation. It was the only thing last night that as, you know, the answer is being given, like the guys are still scratching their head. Well, it must be the plumbing. Oh, it must be this. So, but we walked away and we're like, you know, and Jennifer said it. Jennifer said it to them. You know, we're going to do something in front of the commission to explain that better because we understand there's an issue there. And I, I really, I did, I thought about it all night because we pride ourselves. And, and so whether what's real and what's not matters, we've got to kind of make sure that everybody understands why that would have the cost level. It does so. Absolutely. Other than that, anything else for the order? That's okay. Commissioner DeGuard. I wish to thank my colleagues, particularly the mayor, Commissioner Sandbergen, Commissioner Walker, and the manager as well as Nicole Delfino for representing us well up in Tallahassee this last week. I was unable to go because of a circumstance in the family that didn't allow me to be there. But I kept in good contact with my colleagues on the event and I am sure we were represented well there and I want to thank my colleagues for doing it. Thank you, Commissioner. And is there an opportunity that for those that couldn't go, that there'll be some debriefing? I'll bring it up at Commission Comments on Thursday night so we can, you know, kind of talk through it and you guys can tag on. But it was very, very, very successful in my opinion. We had fun, but more than anything, it was extremely productive. And, but we, I'll, we'll, I'll make sure to make comments and you guys, you can ask questions on Thursday and you guys can jump in. So, okay, cool. All right. So, hey, 19 minutes early. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.