CITY COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING - Jan 22, 2026

Vice mayor Walker. Aye. Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. So now we'll go to That was ordinance 25-09, read by title only. Okay. Can I get a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Okay. the maker of the motion, which was commissioner Dugard. No comments. Um, vice mayor, any comments?

Jeff Gow: yes · Steven Sandbergen: yes · Robert Walker: yes · Tom Dugard: yes · Maureen "Moe" Freaney: yes

Outcome: Commissioner Dugard? Aye. And mayor Franey? Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. ✓

Good evening and welcome to the January 22nd, 2026 City Commission meeting. I want to call the meeting to order. Before we do our invocation and pledge, however, we have kind of something special tonight and we're going to be observing a moment of silence for somebody very special, which is why we have our veterans in the audience. So before we have our moment of silence, I wanted to take a few moments to honor the life and legacy of Captain Robert Bob Russell. Bob's passing is not the end of an era. It is a powerful testament to an everlasting legacy, a legacy that has shaped lives, strengthened our community, and will continue to endure for generations. That legacy endures because of our past, present, and future veterans. It endures because of those who were inspired, guided, and molded by Bob and by so many of America's greatest generation who answered the call to serve with courage, humility, and unwavering devotion to our nation. Dunedin has always been a community that honors service. We recognize that freedom is not free and it is secured by men and women who place duty above self. We are proud of our veterans, proud of their sacrifice, and proud of the example they set for all of us. So as mayor of this great city of Dunedin, I'm especially proud of how deeply veterans are woven into the fabric of our community. From our veterans arch to our designation as the first Purple Heart City in the state of Florida to the Purple Heart Park that stands as a living tribute to courage and sacrifice. Dunedin has made a promise. We will never forget those who serve. And so more personally to Bob, I'm going to turn to Vice Mayor so he can talk a little bit about that

before we have our moment of silence. Thank you, Mayor. I am so proud to see the veterans out in the audience to see Linda, his daughter, over there in the corner. Hi, Linda. Captain Bob Russell embodied all of us. He was an American hero, not only because of what he did in uniform, because of the man he was every day after. His integrity, his leadership, and his commitment to others left a lasting imprint on Dunedin. I first met Bob in 2022, and after knocking on his door, we spoke for over an hour on his deck outside of his house. Another more poignant vignette was last year. There was a Fox channel interview, and there were two things he said that stuck with me. One was that Bob was goal-oriented. He said, I'm going to get after 102, and by God he made it. My favorite, though, was when he was asked, he must have been a pretty good pilot. He took a moment, he hesitated, and then he responded, I am the best. Typical aviator, but in Bob's case, he is the best. We are proud that he chose to need it as his home in choosing our city. He enriched it, he strengthened it, and he made it better simply by being part of it. And on Saturday, the day of his 102nd birthday, the community turned out. I estimate that there were over 100 vehicles and motorcycles led by our Dunedin Fire and Rescue, our Pinellas County Sheriff's Office, and a whole lot of veterans. Today, we do not just mourn his passing. We celebrate his life. We honor his service, and we recommit ourselves to carrying forward the values he represented. Service, sacrifice, humility, and love of country. Captain Robert, Bob Russell's legacy lives on in every veteran he inspired, every life he touched, and every corner of this community that is stronger because of him. So please join us now in a moment of silence to honor an American hero, Captain Bob Russell, and to reflect on the profound impact he had on our community,

our city, our city, and our nation. Thank you. And thank you to the family. Thank you to the veterans. Especially thank you to Bob for all he gave to this community, but all he gave us. Because again, do you want to come up? Thank you. Anyway, I, this was, this was actually Vice Mayor that called me, and I'm so glad he did. I think this is what makes Dunedin special, and he was special. Thank you. Okay, we're going to go ahead and stand for our invocation, Pledge of Allegiance.

Let's begin this by, again, taking a brief moment of silence and reflection. Amen. I pledge allegiance to God, United States of America, for which it stands, under God, indivisible.

We were actually talking just before the meeting started and saying, you know, they really were the greatest generation, and they just gave very unselfishly, and it was almost an embarrassment not to serve. And so again, thank you for sharing that moment with all of us. Okay, we have our presentations, and our first presentation is City of Dunedin, Martin Luther King Jr. Essay Contest Winners. And I know we already experienced that on Martin Luther King Day at that ceremony, and heard the essays, which were, I think, some of the best ever. And so we've got our library director, Phyllis, who's going to guide us in this. Thank you, Mayor. Each year, the City of Dunedin

hosts the MLK Junior Essay Contest. I want to thank Kimberly Barber. She's the head of our youth department. Her and her team read all the essays, which I know it's hard to, like, twist the arm of the librarian to read. So they read through many essays, and tonight we are going to recognize our winners. As you mentioned, the winners did read their essays at the Martin Luther King breakfast that was held this past Saturday. So I want to thank our Parks and Rec department. They put on a phenomenal program, and it's just a wonderful way to celebrate Martin Luther King Day. So tonight, I'd like to call up our winners one by one and have them come up front so that you guys can all get to see them. The essays are online, so if anybody did want to read them, we'd love for you to do that. Our first winner is Noah Berry from San Jose Elementary, and we have Vice Assistant Principal Mrs. Williams here. So Noah, come on up. Noah's ready to read it again. No, you can stand right up. Stand right there. Great. Next, we have Daphne Golden, and she's at Sora Schools Middle School. Yes, so everyone can see you. Yay. Thank you, Sue. Next, we have Amelia Hardy from Garrison Jones Elementary, and thank you. We have Principal Tapia from Garrison Jones here. Dylan Hernandez from Dunedin Highland Middle School. And then our final winner is Zandira Yungara from Dunedin High School, and we have Principal Kiblinger. So thank you to all our essay winners, and I'm moving out of the way because you need photo ops. Yeah. Okay. Photo with us. Everybody get close. Yeah. Thank you.

Phyllis, did you have any final? You good, or do you have any final comments, or are you good?

We do. We had a fabulous group this year, so we're very excited. Indira's graduating. She's a senior. I know, Principal, they've got basketball games. Girls and boys are playing tonight, so we've got to go. We've got to go. But Indira's graduating this year from Dunedin High. Daphne, where's she at? She's our speed skater. She's amazing.

We just have such a talented group. Well, I want to thank all of the youth that took part, the ones that won, because they were fantastic, and the principals, and certainly the parents, because, you know, these kids are a credit to you. So thank you. Thank you all. Thank you, Phyllis and Kimberly. Okay. I guess, Phyllis, you're just going to stay up there. I brought the rest of my team. I had a feeling, and it's love your, plus the group back there, too. So love your library month, and I'm going to turn to Commissioner Sandbergen to read and present the proclamation to Phyllis.

Wow. Your game. Thank you. Kimberly, good to see you again.

You guys aren't in the back of a cop car. Well, yes, we did.

For walk to school day. Yeah. So 130 years, 20, 30 employees, 6,000 pounds of food donated to Dunedin Cares in sort of the learning center of the city of Dunedin and everything that you do. There's something there for everyone, and I certainly appreciate what all of you do for Dunedin. So with that being said, love your library month proclamation. Whereas love your month, love your library month celebrated each February encourages communities across the nation to recognize the vital contributions libraries make to education, culture, and community well-being. And whereas the Dunedin public library celebrated its 130th anniversary in 2025, honoring more than a century of service, growth, dedication, and to enrich the lives of all who call Dunedin home. And whereas the libraries play an essential role in fostering literacy, lifelong learning, creativity, and civic participation by providing free access to information, technology, educational programs, and welcoming spaces for all ages. And whereas the Dunedin public library offers diverse resources, community programs, cultural events, and opportunities for connection to strengthen the social and educational fabric of our community. And whereas the Dunedin public library provides enriching youth programs that foster early literacy, creativity, curiosity, and lifelong love of learning, offering children and teens a safe and inspiring place to grow, explore, and connect with their community. And whereas the Dunedin public library champions the written word, promoting reading and the joy of books through its diverse collections, author events, literacy initiatives, and the opportunities for residents of all ages to engage with stories and ideas. Whereas the library embraces innovative technology, offering digital resources, computer access, tech training programs, and tools that help bridge the digital divide and ensure that all residents can participate fully and in an increasingly connected world. Now I, therefore, Stephen Sandbergen, by the virtue of authority invested me by Mayor Freeney and the City of Dunedin, on behalf of the entire City Commission, I do hereby proclaim February 2026 as Love Your Library Month and invite everyone in our community to visit the library, appreciate its many resources, and celebrate by attending the Friends of the Library annual book sale. Thank you for everything that you do for this community. All yours.

Okay, I warned the mayor that I had a couple of things to announce. So thank you. Thank you, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. Thank you, Commissioner Sandbergen for reading that. Of course, every month is Love Your Library in our world, and in your world too, I'm sure. But February gives us an official excuse to brag. Love Your Library Month is the perfect time to celebrate all the wonderful things and you heard all of the wonderful things that are happening. We have so many reasons to love our library and I want to take a moment to thank the library management team. Katie isn't able to be here, but Carrie is our assistant director and Kimberly is our youth services manager. The library advisory committee, our friends who are having a book sale February 4th. So I want to introduce our president, Mala Kohlhoff. Bunny Dutton is on our membership. We also have our foundation members. So our chair, Jody Craig and Alan Kynes, our vice chair. So I want to thank everyone for all they do for our library. So we're kicking off the month with our Friends of the Library annual book sale. We're offering fantastic finds for every type of reader, from beloved classics to unexpected gem. And every purchase helps support programming for kids, teens, and adults that keeps our library vibrant. So February 4th is the member only preview sale. I know all of you are members. And if you're not in the audience and you're not a member, you can join on the spot. February 5th through the 7th is the public sale, 9 30 to 3 pm. And then for the month of February, we're also thrilled to unveil our brand new fire department mural. So I know Chief Andoga is here, he's so excited about this. And then so our new fire department murals in the youth department, Kimberly worked with him. And Danny Castillo, this is his baby. He's been so excited. It was created by DNA Painting. It's the book and ladder fire station. So don't worry, it didn't come to commission. It's under budget. And it was done in record time. So a special thank you goes out to Danny Castillo for his support in bringing this vibrant project to life. And if you've ever watched the library and the fire department team up, you know, we take community partnership to a whole new level. So we've always had something special with our fire department. I have now been named the chief fire librarian. So we're very excited about that. And we'll be hosting a special fire story time on February 13th at 10 am, followed by a ribbon cutting ceremony. And you all will receive invitations for that. So it's going to be a great time. And finally, for our history lovers, we get a lot of love from lots of partnerships. And we're proud to announce the launch of the searchable digital archive of the Dunedin Times. It's on our e-resources page. We have been working with the History Museum on this. So you can now explore the Dunedin Times from 1924 to 61 with full text searching, filtering, clipping, downloading, and highlighting as well. It's a remarkable window into Dunedin's past made possible through a partnership with the Dunedin History Museum and funded by the Dunedin Public Library Foundation. And I know Graham Muir is here. He was one of our volunteers that helped get us in touch with Advantage Archives, who hosts the site. And Vinnie Luisi, he's one of our greatest partners. And then Daniela and Georgiane are also here. So I'm delighted to have our partners from the History Museum with us as well. So as you can tell, there's so much to enjoy and explore. So come celebrate. Love your library month. But you can come any month. You can come any day. And experience all the new and inspiring things happening at our library. So thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And I am going to give the commission a chance to say something if they want to, because we really do love our library. And I'm going to start with the Vice Mayor.

You know, when we moved to the Dunedin library, it was the first place we went to. And our first impression was, wow. And since then, you know, it's just such a comfort to have something like that in our community. And just, so thank you for all you do. And you guys, you do just great, great things.

Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Sandburne.

I guess every successful community, you know, has a successful and forward-thinking library. I think that the one thing that citizens don't realize is how much our library actually does. It's not somewhere where you go to check out a book with the resources, the learning centers. You know, it's really, it's something that everyone needs to understand. You know, we're not a huge town. We're not a small town. And we have something down there that we can be very proud of. And, you know, Phyllis and the two of you, thank you for everything that you do to keep us going.

Thank you. Commissioner Gow.

Thank you, Mayor. 138 years. Quite, quite impressive. I'm not that old. But certainly old enough to remember Old City Hall. And because that was my library growing up. And Steve, I love your comments about successful communities have forward-thinking libraries. And that is certainly true for us as well. You know, and I was writing down everything that you were kind of saying what you could do in a library. And, you know, libraries really are, they're activity centers. And you can go there and get so much out of them. And the idea that, yeah, for those that sadly may not go to them, really don't know what they're missing. And so it's, encourage everybody to go, go to the library, get involved, and just, you'll transform yourself. So thank you, ladies, for everything that you do. Commissioner Dugard.

Thank you, Mayor. You know, after my colleagues have managed to take all the good stuff, I'm going to wax a little historic. The very first library most of us remember in history was the library in Alexandria. It was the repository of all the knowledge humans could put together. They had the library and they had the lighthouse. The lighthouse brought the boats in. And by the way, the librarians, one of which, the last one was named Hypatia, made sure that the boats were stopped and any books on the boats were stolen, borrowed. And then they were copied and placed in the library. That's how much that repository of knowledge cherished keeping the knowledge in a single place. And that's why lighthouses and libraries kind of go together to this day. But when you think that this is our repository of that knowledge, and they are our keepers, it makes it a special place. Thanks for all you do.

Yeah. So thank everybody who's here, the foundation folks, the advisory board folks, and the ones that helped with the history. But especially thank you to you guys. Thank you for all, all of you for selecting this career and selecting Dunedin. And I'm going to specifically say to our, I don't, we don't just love our library, we love our Phyllis too. And I have to say, I for one, from time to time am just thankful that you chose this to be your life work, because Dunedin Library really is. And you've got a great team that you've, that you've brought into it. But you know, as far as the library goes, you know, I learned as I worked here for so many years. You know, when you talk about libraries being the center of democracy, they really are. They really are that repository. They really are the place where it's, you know, everybody can kind of come and find something, no matter what their belief is, and become educated and, you know, and be able to get books. So it really is, it really is one of our most important places in Dunedin. So I just want to thank you guys again. And yeah, good luck with the sale. And keep up the good stuff. So thank you.

That's right. So don't forget the Friends of the Library book sale.

February 4th is the private. February 4th, yeah.

I'm good. Okay. And then I do want to thank, we have an amazing team at the library. There's 29 of us, full-time and part-time. Everybody works so hard. And if you do get to see, we just finished our interior painting project. And it's just beautiful in there. So come visit the library. Thank you.

Didn't you have to work on MLK Day? Because you had to go check out the paint or something?

I did. I worked with the painters on MLK Day. Dedication. Awesome. Yes. Great. Thank you all. Thank you.

Oh, picture, picture.

Get up there.

Thank you.

Okay, we're going to go to citizen input now. And does anyone in the audience wish to speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? This would be your time to come forward. Three minutes. Okay, seeing no one. Oh, you have to come forward though. Name and address for the record.

My question is about the city, the old city hall. And when you're doing the old grand, that is going to be on the agenda in a little while. So I'll come back up and talk about what I had in mind. Then is the best time, not now.

So is it about the naming or about what? It is about the bathrooms. Oh, it's about the bathrooms. Well, that'll be on the agenda item. So you can later that then. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I know you probably like to speak and be done, but okay. Anyone else in the audience who wish to come forward and speak on an issue that is not on

the agenda. Okay. Mr. Rob. Hi, Rob Cozen, Chesterfield Drive, Dunedin, also chair of the city of Dunedin military veterans advisory committee. I just wanted to say something that you probably don't hear often enough. I am proud of this town and I am proud of all of you, especially tonight for how you have recognized and honored our veterans in our town. Let me tell you about Bob Russell. Not only was he special for being Bob Russell, but he was also the last man standing. For five years, we had the honor of six of our World War II veterans sitting in front when we had our Veterans Day ceremonies. And this past Veterans Day, there were names on five of the chairs because we had lost five of those six. And the only one that was left was Bob Russell. And I was honored to introduce him as our guest of honor. So thank God Bob lived to see the way that the city could honor him with this parade and the cars and the showing of love that we had. It was just a special thing. But thank God that we had Bob in our lives. Also, thank God Fred Marcus hung around long enough for us to be able to honor him. Another person who left his mark on this town. And I'm just so proud of how the city and the county just showed their love and their respect and their honor for Fred Marcus. So again, another feather of our hat. And also, you all must know, because Rob was there several months ago, we had a foreign minister from the country of France. And he came to the VFW and gave one of our veterans, unfortunately, posthumously, the Legion of Honor Award, the highest military award that the country of France gives to a non-Frenchman. These are the veterans that we have in our town. The message is, after having given all these eulogies, is don't wait till they pass to honor our veterans. We don't have to wait till Memorial Day and Veterans Day and Purple Hearts Day to recognize how special the veterans of our town are. So again, thank you for taking the time and show the inclination to honor our veterans. That's one of the things that makes Dunedin special. One other thing. Several months ago, I sent you a letter requesting that you consider making Dunedin a Red Star family. I don't have the time to explain a lot about Red Star. You should already know about it. So all I'm doing is, again, is encouraging you, please take the time to review everything that I sent you and get it on the agenda so we can get it done. Okay? And I think the city manager and

uh, Rec and Parks director are meeting about that next week so we can get it moved along. Perfect.

Thank you. And again, thank you for everything you do. Thank you very much. And thank you for getting

the Fred Marquis thing done because it was a military group that did it. And he had a chance to, you know, speak to everybody because he was doing fairly well and, um, see all the people that he worked with over the years, uh, at the county. So it was a little reunion for him and who, who would know two weeks or three weeks later, he'd pass away. So, um, okay. Um, anyway, so we're gonna, any, anybody else in the audience wishes to speak on an issue that is not in the agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, we're gonna move on. We're gonna go to consent agenda. We have approval of the minutes for the 1220, or I'm sorry, 12-2-2025 workshop, the December 4th, 2025 regular meeting. We have board and committee appointments. One of this one is historic preservation advisory committee. We have 2C, which is award of bid number 25-2541 for North Douglas Avenue drainage improvements to stage door 2 LLC of APACA, Florida in the amount of 193,502 and 10 cents. And, uh, so is, does anybody want anything pulled or? Okay. Can I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Okay. Does anyone in the public wish to come forward and speak on any of those consent agenda items? Okay. Seeing no one, I'll close public input and, uh, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And motion passes unanimously. Okay. Our action items. We'll start with, uh, 3A, application LUPZO-2025-00001, land use plan amendment and rezoning request for the property located at 1050 Main Street. This is the second reading of ordinance 25-08, land use plan amendment from retail and services to residential low medium. Second reading of ordinance, uh, 25-09, rezoning from form-based medium to mobile home. Uh, and, uh, this item is quasi-judicial. So therefore, request city clerk to swear in all who intend to speak on application LUPZO-2025-0001. Okay. And anyone up here need to disclose any expert contacts for the record? Okay. Seeing none, uh, I'll ask Jen, could you please read ordinance 25-08 by title only? Ordinance 25-08, an ordinance of the city of Dunedin,

Florida amending the city of Dunedin future land use plan as adopted by ordinance 20-01 on certain rural property located at 1050 Main Street, parcel number 2628-15-00000-230-1500 with designated meets and bounds and totaling approximately 0.53 acres to assign a residential low medium RLM land use designation and providing for an effective date. That was ordinance 25-08 read by title only. Okay. Could I have a

motion? So moved. Second. Okay. I think, uh, vice mayor and then commissioner Sambergen as a seconder.

Okay. Um, and staff presentation will go to Joey. Uh, good evening. Uh, Joseph de Pasqua on behalf of, uh, the community development department. And so as, as we normally do with these, I'd like to do a presentation on both, both, both items, both actions this evening, both the land use amendment, as well as the rezoning. So to, to recap the applications, uh, uh, application number L-U-P-ZO, uh, 20-25-000-1. Again, the petition is a land use plan amendment and a rezoning. The applicant is the Golden Acres RO Association, Inc. They're represented by, uh, attorney DeMont. The address of the property is 1050, uh, Main Street, uh, in Dunedin here. And the property size is just over half an acre, 0.53 acres. And you have two ordinances, of course, on second reading this evening. The first one, 2508, is the land use plan amendment from R&S to RLM. And then the second one is 2509, which is the rezoning from, uh, uh, FX, uh, FX8, FXM to mobile home, MH. So just briefly, I'll just, uh, I know these processes take a while, so I'm gonna kind of recap what has happened. Um, back in September, the LPA did consider both these ordinances and made a unanimous recommendation of approval to the city commission of both. And then, of course, they were brought for first reading, uh, in front of the city commission where they both also received unanimous approval. And, um, as the normal process goes, then they're transmitted to the county. And when I say they, it's just actually the land use plan amendment is then transmitted to the county where it goes through a series of meetings. The first one of which is the planners advisory committee, which makes a recommendation to the Pinellas, uh, forward Pinellas board. And so the, that happened, um, they voted, uh, to the, to recommend approval to the forward Pinellas board. Then of course, the forward Pinellas board makes a recommendation to the countywide, uh, planning authority. That's the city, excuse me, the county commission acting in that capacity. So that took place on December 16th of last year, where the county commission did acting in that capacity unanimously approve the land use plan amendment, bringing it back to this evening. So just very briefly, the background, you may recall, this is a property, the applicant purchased in June of 2020 property once had a home on it. It's been demolished. Uh, essentially you may recall the property is, is landlocked. There's no access from any other public roads. So you access the property exclusively through the mobile home park. And of course, uh, as the, the, we, we talked about, they, and the applicants, uh, attorney, uh, mentioned during the previous first readings, they intend to use it as common open space. There's no intention to put any mobile homes on the property. It'll just be a extension of the common area for the existing park. To recap, the land use plan amendment essentially is really a, um, a decrease in intensity and density. So you're going from retail and services, which is a mixed use commercial and residential, um, land use plan category. And we're going to, uh, which has got, uh, uh, 24 units an acre. It's much more dense than what they're proposing, which is the residential low medium. Residential low medium allows only up 10 units an acre and it has a lower FAR. And essentially it's a residential zoning district as the name would, would, uh, would lead you to believe the rezoning is essentially the same thing. We're taking our form based medium and we're moving into the residential district that is specifically for mobile homes or the mobile home district. And of course that district is specifically for mobile homes and the associated common areas and things that you would find within a mobile home community. And so that's what we're doing here again, sort of a decrease sort of across the board, if you will. Um, so that is what the second ordinance does. And then of course I'll wrap up by saying given all of that staff is recommending approval to the city commission on second read of both ordinances here this evening. The first of which is the land use plan amendment. And the second one is the rezoning request. And with that, I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have.

Okay. Questions for staff, I guess, starting with commissioner Gow.

Thank you, mayor. No questions. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, mayor. Um, what is, I understand they're going to keep this as a common area. Um, what is to keep them from putting more mobile homes on it at some point?

I'll probably, uh, certainly the applicant and the attorney are here, but I, as I recall from previous discussion is it requires a 100% vote for them to add any mobile homes. And that I think Mr. DeMont to testify in the past is very unlikely to ever happen. And, and I think they've, and quite honestly, they've mentioned that they want to use it as common area. Sounds very aren't glad to me.

Thank you. Okay. Vice mayor. Uh, no questions, mayor. Commissioner Sandberg. No, that presentation last time was so comprehensive. There's no questions left. Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I don't

have any additional questions. We've got all those answered very well by you guys last time. Um, so I will open it to public input, including the applicant wants to speak or...

Unless you have some questions. Thank you. Okay. Uh, anyone else in the audience wish to

come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input. And, um, I'll do commission comments, starting with maker of the motion, which was, uh, vice mayor. Uh, no additional comments.

It's the right thing to do. So thank you. And commissioner Sandberg was the seconder.

Yeah. Nothing to add mayor. Okay. And, uh, commissioner Gow. No comments. Commissioner Dugard. No comments. Thank you. And I don't have any additional comments either. So we'll do a roll

call vote. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Gow. Aye. Commissioner Sandberg. Aye.

Vice mayor Walker. Aye. Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. So now we'll go to ordinance 25-09, which we've already had the presentation. But if you could read that ordinance

for us, uh, Jen. Ordinance 25-09, an ordinance of the city of Dunedin, Florida, zoning certain real property located at 1050 Main Street, parcel number 26-28-15-0000-230-1500, with designated meets and bounds and totaling approximately 0.53 acres to mobile home, MH, and providing for an effective date. That was ordinance 25-09, read by title only. Okay. Can I get a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Okay.

We've had our staff presentation on this specific issue. Are any questions from anybody? Vice mayor? No questions. Commissioner Sandberg? No questions, mayor. Commissioner Gow? No questions. Commissioner Dugard? No questions. And I don't have any either. So then we will go to, um, open it for public input. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue, on the rezoning? And seeing no one, I will close public input and go to commission comments, which I will start with the maker of the motion, which was commissioner Dugard. No comments. Um, vice mayor, any comments? No additional comments. Okay. Commissioner Gow? No comments. And commissioner Sandberg? Nothing, mayor. Okay. And I don't have any, uh, either. So we'll go to roll call vote. Commissioner Gow? Aye.

Commissioner Sandbergen? Aye. Vice mayor Walker? Aye.

Commissioner Dugard? Aye. And mayor Franey? Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. So, um, I think we're good. So congratulations. And I'm really assured you're never getting 100% of the vote to do anything on there. I'm sure of that. If you do, I'm going to play the lotto that week. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Right. Take care, guys. Thank you. Okay. Um, we are going to go to 3B. Fiscal Year 26 City of Dunedin Vehicle Replacement Plan. Vehicle Equipment Purchases of 23 Assets for Total Expenditure of $1,788,225.53. And we have staff presentation by Sue with possible assist from Scott. That's what it says. So, it's, it's your game. However you go for it. Good evening.

And, um, to all of you, Sue Bartlett, Public Works Director. And yes, it is Scott and I. And then there's several directors available should you have questions about their particular purchases. So, um, we appreciate, uh, the opportunity to come and, um, review the annual fleet replacement plan with you. Um, Scott has some information he's going to share. And then I'm going to follow with some additional

information. Go, Scott. Okay. Scott Caterson, Fleet Manager. Um, good evening, Mayor. Good evening, Commissioners. Um, tonight, I'm seeking your approval to replace selected vehicles in accordance with the fleet plan. Uh, after that, I will turn it over to Sue to address all your other issues. Um, and I will be brief. I want to share four quick things. Um, one is how we pay for replacement vehicles. Number two is how we decide which vehicles get replaced. Number three, which vehicles we want to replace this fiscal year. And lastly, a quick update on some of our fleet replacement plan goals. Okay. So, replacement vehicles are paid for by division in advance of the purchase. Scott? Yes. Um, are we supposed to have

something on the screen? Not yet. Yeah. And pull that a little bit closer. When? No. Um, okay. So, paying for

replacement begins as soon as a new vehicle is obtained. Each division makes quarterly contributions which are calculated by dividing the expected replacement cost of that vehicle by the number of quarters in that vehicle's useful life. That way, when we, when a vehicle is ready to be retired, its replacement is fully funded. Um, I am going to show you. Need to go back. Yep. Okay. I'm going to just, I know this is a lot of information, but I just wanted to show you how carefully we are tracking the payments. So, this, um, display represents a spreadsheet I have that tracks, um, a particular, division, which in this case is code enforcement, and all the vehicles that belong to that division. Um, you can see that each vehicle has its expected replacement cost divided by its useful life and the payments that that division is going to be making to fund the replacement in the future of that vehicle. Um, this is available. I'd, I'd love to show off my spreadsheet because it's killer, but it's available, um, if you would like to see it, but I just wanted to show you how the vehicles are getting paid for. Um, number two is how we decide which vehicles get replaced. Uh, when a vehicle nears estimated replacement time, I personally, along with the shop foreman, go out and physically inspect that vehicle. Um, we are making sure we're getting our money's worth out of every vehicle. What you're seeing here, if you look at your display, is a form I have where we, uh, have gone out and visited this particular vehicle number 652. And even though it's a 2014, um, we have decided we are not going to replace this vehicle at this time because it is in such good shape with only 52,000 miles on it that we can get much more useful life out of this vehicle. So that's, uh, pretty much how we are deciding which ones we're going to keep and which ones we are going to go ahead and ask to have replaced. The number three thing I'd like to talk about is the vehicles that we are replacing this year. Um, this is available in the, oh, you know what? When we look at vehicles, here's an example. So here's a vehicle we could go look at and it looks like it's in pretty bad shape, but appearances can be deceiving. This is actually a low mileage vehicle. It's not even up for replacement yet, but this is a F-350. It would cost $70,300 to replace, but, and Jennifer is probably going to see this coming, this vehicle with such low mileage does not need to be replaced. It just needs a little bit of work. So with some sandpaper and spray paint and a lot of elbow grease, we were able to take this vehicle that looked like it was going to have to be replaced and not replace it. So here you can see some pictures of us restoring it. These are the wheels before. This is a marina vehicle, so it's subject to salt and rust, but we are able to restore those wheels as you can see in these three pictures here. Here's more pictures. Here's the back all rusting away, but again, this is all surface rust. We were able to clean this up with wire brushes and sandpapers and refinish it so that the vehicle is in nice shape. The headlights on the front end looked a little bad, but with some sandpaper and some elbow grease, we were able to restore them to like new condition. And the faded trim, we just stripped it and refinished it. And now we do not have to buy a $70,000 truck because this truck has low miles and now it looks like it has low miles. So that's what we're doing for you over there in fleet. We are not getting rid of trucks before their time. Third thing is, is this is a list of the vehicles we need to replace this fiscal year. You can refer to the display or exhibit a page three. So we had 39 vehicles that were judged to be nearing the end of their useful life. Of those 17 do not need to be replaced at this time. 22 do. And that's what we're here for tonight. Note that at the total at the bottom, we are $57,000 under budget. And those contributions have already been made. So the contributions will made will be going back into the vehicles that do need to be replaced next year and reducing expenses to the departments. And the fourth thing is just a very quick update on some of our fleet plan goals. One of which is this year we are replacing four gas vehicles with four very efficient hybrid vehicles. And the other one is we are looking to remove underutilized underutilized vehicles from the fleet. Working with the division heads, we have already identified four older pieces of equipment or vehicles that we will be disposing of and not replacing. Those vehicles are Ford Escape that belongs to the recreation department, a Ford F-350 that belongs to the admin section of solid waste, a mower over in Parks and Rec, and a mobile water pump over in the water department. So we are making some progress on that goal. And that's what I have for you. And at this point, I'm going to turn it

back over to Sue. Thank you. To add to what Scott was just saying, we are continuing to evaluate the low use vehicles. That is a list that was produced through the efficiency study. Working with the departments, again, sometimes things can look like they're low use, and perhaps it's not reflecting the real need for that vehicle. But every one of the vehicles will be justified. There'll be a real reason, and then we'll continue to monitor it. One of the things that Scott didn't mention that's included in the analysis is the maintenance cost. What, you know, what has been the current maintenance cost? Additionally, one of the recommendations that we are implementing is when these projects do occur and, you know, whether it's looking at replacement, both the department director and public works director will come to an agreement based on the estimate, the of how to proceed. So that we have a cost benefit analysis for those decisions. So as Scott mentioned, no increase in assets. The total is under budget. You'll see in the staffing, it's 23 assets because solid waste is 22 plus one is 23. As we enter the budget season this year, you will find that all those assets will be on one page in the fleet book as requested by the commission so that you can look at all of it at once. It will continue as all the assets do. Those who are, that are purchased from enterprise funds will clearly still come out of those funds. The surplus, the, the contract, any contributions, those are going to stay within the fund and Scott's very good at that. And our new system also has all that built in to track it. We have revised the entire solid waste replacement plan based on the recommendations that are attached in your packet and your exhibits. And we will give you that update when we come to commission to the workshop on March 3rd to give you an idea of what we're doing there. The asset that is currently asked to be for your, your approval for solid waste is actually not the asset that was budgeted. It is a greatly reduced price as you can see or cost due to the change in the unincorporated residential pickup. We don't need that We don't need that other truck. So you'll, we'll be surplusing. We have more, more vehicles to surplus than we had before. I think there's another, did four this past year and I think there's another three or four on the list right now. In addition to what Scott just said. So we're going to continue to right size our fleet. Make sure that we're replacing them timely so that the maintenance costs don't exceed our replacement and use useful life and still get salvage value. So we have the balance and our costs don't really escalate for the maintenance and then all of a sudden we're paying and operating versus capital. So also what's not reflected here will be some additional surplus from the city hall pool that's being developed. So we expect to have that up and running within the next two months. So the combination of vehicles here in city hall will be checked out and we will be reducing that total size of fleet. And I, I think that, you know, we'll bring to light some of these things in a little more detail, some of the savings and all when we come to the workshop so that you can see those dollars. But I feel this is a very sound plan. Um, it is, uh, again, budget wise, including solid waste is less than we planned. And we're going to continue to look for savings, um, as the year goes, regardless of what was budgeted and what isn't. One more thing to mention, which will be also in the city manager's update is that, um, we did apply for a grant for an, and it was awarded. And so there's some wording in this staffing that is a little outdated, but we have been awarded both vehicle replacements and it's a reimbursement. So we still have to have the budget. We still need your approval to expend these funds and then apply for reimbursement. But it's very, um, specific and it's very time sensitive. So, um, to um, to $550,000 for two. Yeah. Thanks. Buried the line, didn't I? Yeah. So, um, buried the lead there. So that's the solid waste vehicle as well as a claw truck, which, um, can take debris and put in. We are also going to apply for two more as soon as, uh, that period opens. If, uh, we get awarded, we will be back for the, you know, first time in three years, twice, uh, to come before you for, uh, requesting to purchase those vehicles. Again, they are in the replacement plan, but, uh, this is an opportunity to actually reduce our expenses a great deal and, um, still go be sound in our planning and our replacement. Thank you. If you

have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Questions for Sue or Scott? I'll start with Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, I, I honestly don't have any questions. I, that was a very comprehensive presentation and I look at what we're, where we were at on this particular issue because we do this every year and two years ago and the, the, the, just the, the matter of data that's gone into this, I, you know, I, I have a, had a commanding officer one time that says you got to have a plan so that you've got something to deviate from. And, uh, in this particular case, I, you know, I'm a great presentation.

Commissioner Sandberg in questions. Yeah. I just had, I did have a couple. So the grant money set for, uh, waste

vehicles, is that? Uh, the grant is for, uh, vehicles that can dispose, carry solid waste or like debris.

Okay. And is there ever grant money available for emergency vehicles? Camille is very good at looking for

money everywhere that applies to the city. If there is, we'll find it. Yeah, absolutely. She's looking. Yeah. Um, you know, in the rotation, so you do take into consideration

the wear and tear. I mean, it could be a vehicle that, even though it's, I guess you showed that in that display, X amount of years old, but it's still low miles. Right. Does it mean it automatically has to be replaced then? Correct. Right.

In fact, I'll give you, so 490, um, was on our list to be replaced, a solid waste vehicle. We thought, okay, we'll take this one. Um, it, uh, it had a lot of maintenance expenses. We'll, we'll put that one in for replacement and we'll use it for this grant. But then, it happened, it had a little accident caused by someone else. And, uh, that, that, um, entity, um, had to pay to have it refurbished. So here we have a relatively new refurbished, um, vehicle. We're not going to replace, we're going to keep that one. We're going to take a different one. So it's, it's really very individual for the particular vehicle. And it's looked at, in fact, on the grant, they're out there looking at some of the engines to see if they qualify, not just the vehicle, because it's very specific years. So they're, they're putting a lot of effort with the departments.

Okay. Yeah. Do we, do we, uh, do we do our own body work, minor body work, or do we send

that out? No, we, we send that out. Okay. And how about, uh, these vehicles are all fueled

at the building in, in, in the shop where, where you are? Is that where vehicles are? Yeah, on the, on the, in the fleet yard. Correct. Okay. So we, we look, we buy fuel on futures. I mean, it does fluctuate from week to week. What kind of a plan do we have to be able

to obtain fuel at its lowest possible cost? Okay. So we piggyback off the county's bid. Um, there's currently three, um, providers that have won the bid at the county and they extend that to us. And so we get it, um, at the lowest possible bid price. Okay. And lastly,

you know, we, some of these vehicles, you know, the miles rack up on them. Do we take a good hard look at take home vehicles? Do we ever stop and address who has access to

a take home vehicle? That actually doesn't have the, that approval doesn't come through fleet, but yes, we look at those, uh, just like every other vehicle. We look at those miles, the approval actually, and is, is tracked in a payroll and, um, is approved by the city manager. Good. That's all I had, mayor. Okay.

There are no take home golf carts.

Uh, commissioner to guard questions. Yes. Thank you, mayor. Um, this is a very comprehensive process. Congratulations, Scott. Sue. Um, a couple of questions. I'm, I'm concerned about how the accounting on that works so that when you're telling them how much they need to place into funds for future service vehicles, where are those funds retained and

how do they actually acquire the vehicle? Okay. So the funds are actually retained in the fleet fund as, uh, unrestricted net position on the, on the, on the, um, the financial statements. Um, it is invested by less over in finance. Hope so. Yes. And, uh, what was the second part of your question? Your, the first one was about where the funds were and then what was the second part? How do we, how do we acquire them?

How do you, how do you release the funds? How do we acquire the vehicles or the funds?

The funds. Okay. The funds are acquired through finance. Um, they do a quarterly journal entry which, um, charges each department what's called an internal service fund charge to the replacement,

um, vehicle fund. So they will, in essence, fund the entire replacement of the vehicle, hopefully before that, that is needed. Is that the case? Yes. Okay. Over time though, not all at once. No, I understand that. It's, it's a, you've figured out a very nice way of amortizing that over a period of time. So now the vehicle has seen its useful life and we're going to replace it. What happens to that vehicle we're now getting out of service? Okay. By city, uh, ordinance,

we have, or by purchasing policy ordinance, we have to dispose of that to the highest bidder.

So we take those cars to auction. Okay. Once that vehicle is auctioned, where do those funds go that we got from auction? And how are we measuring that in any way?

Those funds go to the general fund. They go to general fund. I'm sorry.

Because they're an enterprise fund. Yeah. Except for solid waste because it's an enterprise fund.

Okay. So it goes back to them. So they retain them in an enterprise fund. If the vehicle's in an enterprise fund, and if they are not retained there, they go to general fund. How do we track our performance there on, uh, fleet sales? How do we know if we're doing a good job or a bad job after it's coming back from auction to know if we should continue that same process?

Well, we don't, it's regulatory that we have to follow that process for disposal. But, uh, the attachment that you have has a letter, um, re, it was, it's specific to solid waste when, uh, it was reviewed the efficiency, in the efficiency study. And it actually calls out why we wanted to make some of those changes or why there was recommendations about keeping the vehicles. And it, it's, it is about the performance that we, and the money that we get from surplus. When we keep those vehicles so long, sometimes it costs us to actually dispose of them. And there's no real gain when you have, um, you know, your maintenance cost increasing, increasing, or it's not reliable. And then we have a lot of vehicles sitting around. We didn't, we, we need more people to maintain them. They need service. Um, so in fact, it was analyzed during this process and we are revising our fleet plan and looking at it closely with those eyes. Okay. Well, if, if they're this old, um, if they're paid off and they're still useful and they're not, the maintenance costs are reasonable, then it makes sense to keep it. But, uh, again, we're also aligning with industry standards of how many reserves to keep and how many to let go, um, so that we don't have all this excess. And that's why I say you're going to see another surplus list to go, uh, because people do like to hold on to them because they want to make sure that they can provide the service to a citizen. And, uh, they're not realizing that that's not helping them. So.

I think we've got a very good line of sight on acquisition, on, uh, maintenance and upkeep and tracking. I'm not sure we have good line of sight on the fleet sales and know what's going on there. So that's my only concern. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Gow, did you have something?

Yeah, just, just a few, Mayor. Uh, thank you. I want Scott, love the spreadsheet, had your name written all over it. It was like, it was really wonderful. Um, for any Excel geeky people. Uh, yeah, when you talk about, uh, each department quarterly pays, pays for the next vehicle, that is at the anticipated new vehicle price. Correct. Correct? And you, you, and you might've said this in your presentation and I might've missed it, but how often are you, you going out and you kind of ping in the price of new ones? I did not mention that in the

presentation, but we do that every year annually. Okay. And so those quarterly payments could

adjust annually. They do. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well done. And did I hear you correctly on the one example you gave on the truck that looked like it might be? And we brought it back to life that the headlights, just a little sandpaper and elbow grease?

Correct. Correct. We probably spent less than $300 on that restoration.

I'm going to bring in my headlights to you guys. Cause that was, they looked really, really good. Uh, uh, well, well done. Um, and- Were they cloudy headlights? Yeah, they were cloudy.

Cause mine are really cloudy. So I'm going to be, I'm going to be paying attention. I was paying attention to that too. So I just had to jump on because I thought, okay, there's no-

You might have a line of cars. We only maintain an extra revenue.

A nice side hustle. Yeah. We only maintain city of Dunedin vehicles. Sorry. We know. Yeah. We don't want to get that out there that we're taking our vehicles to the garage.

Sorry. Sorry. No, no, no.

I couldn't resist cause I thought the same thing I had done.

Yeah. Thank God. The amount of time I've struggled with that. Um, um, I like what we're doing with, uh, sustainability and forward thinking. I know we purchased electric in the past. I know you've talked about hybrid. Um, and you're doing it smart. So thank you for that. Instead of just, hey, all electric, even though that's where I'd like to go, I, I understand. Right. So you're using common sense and intelligence. So thank you for doing that.

I would like to add, I did have a bullet and I didn't say it is, um, when I, you know, came three years ago, the dream plan was in place, right? And, uh, the requirement there to look at alternative fuels. Um, and Scott was, um, looking at the, by himself trying to, you know, look at these different fuels and things. And he still is doing that, but it is now just memorialized and just, they're just, everyone's used to the fact that they're going to have to go through that criteria and look, and it's going to be, it's just part of the replacement plan. You're not going to look at something without alternative fuels. Now, Scott is the lead and the driver. I will tell you that, but everyone knows we're following that plan. And our goal is to use alternative fuels whenever possible. And when it makes sense, um, dollar wise, um, even if a vehicle is a little more, a hybrid or, you know, an electric, if it weighs out, you make that decision. We bring it to you. Um, if it isn't practical and it can't be used, we can't drive through water or something, we, we don't recommend it. We don't bring it here to recommend. So that is, that, but my point is, everyone knows it, all the directors are used to it, and it's just old hat. I like it.

I like it. I like it. When it comes to the evaluation of the vehicles, um, I, I noticed that there were miles and there's also hours. And for, for the common resident out there, they might not understand what we mean by hours. And what, when would we see a low mileage vehicle with high hours that needs to be replaced?

That would be construction type equipment and vehicles such as the fire where they have to run but are not moving.

Right. And so those hours are just engine running hours. Yes. And so you can have vehicles that stay, right. And that's what mileage is also about, right? It's that running engine. And so even though you don't have low miles, that engine is still running and creating wear and tear.

Yeah, we consider the hours. Okay. We do, I'm sorry, Commissioner. We do discourage idling though. I mean, obviously the fire has to do it for some reasons, but, but we don't like them to idle. Very good.

There is an anti-idling policy, by the way. You're not. Yep. Really?

Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm all into that. That's wonderful. Because there was a time where you didn't shut them off. They, you know, law enforcement used to park and then pop their hoods to keep their engines cool. But don't turn off the vehicle. But I'm getting into comments now. So my apologies, Mayor. All right. I'm done.

Thank you. Awesome. Okay. And I know Commissioner Sammer has one, but I'm going to ask mine first. So the 17 deferred vehicles. Right. Are people mad at you?

No, we, we reached that. It's an agreement. In fact, I, I couldn't fit it on the form, but each division director signs off on that. So really, it's a really good. It's not like I'm going out there and telling them what to do. Yeah.

The process where the criteria is kind of understood and then. Yes.

That's great. There's collaboration and there's discussion. That's great. There's not always agreement at first. Yeah. Right.

Sure. No, that's good. That's good. I like the answer. Um, the $5 million loan repayment that in the, in the staffing says we're going to get that back February, 2026.

Yes. That should put that down.

Grant.

Yeah. We're going to have, we, those payments were, were pretty robust, but we need to pay it back within a specific period of time. We won't have the FEMA money, will we? We don't, we don't yet. We have an agenda item coming up, which is a line of credit to accomplish. Okay. All right. That's right.

You did tell me that behind the scenes. Okay. Sounds good. And my other question, there's a comment in here about new vehicles, but we don't have any new vehicles, right?

That is correct. We have, we have all, well, these are all new vehicles, but no additional vehicles. Right. No additional. Yeah. Yeah.

In fact, it's the number is decreasing. Right. This is just replacing and with new. Okay. Gotcha. Yes. And the question is, so the mobile stage is on here. That's the time. Yeah. And I, I know it's like 23 years old and definitely in need of it. And so is 180,000 going to get us what you need? Because. It is. It is?

Okay. We went through four different vendors and compared and they kind of have catalog prices and found out about cooperative purchasing that we could utilize. Good.

Good. Well, that's good. I mean, that thing's, you know, had its day and was really used, so.

Yeah. One of the big things with the new stage is efficiencies. It's, it's more automatic in 23 years. They've improved the technology. Right. And the materials are a lot lighter. So it could be pulled with a standard pickup truck and not a dump truck.

Great. Okay. Great. Thank you. Appreciate that. I'm, I'm excited about that. I mean, I remember when I first bought the original one and everybody's like, Oh, will it get used? And Oh my gosh, did it get used? So it's really important part of our recreation and parks program. Um, okay. I think commissioner Sandberg and you had an additional question.

No, I was going to ask about the stage. So that was perfect timing.

Thank you. Yes. There we go. Great minds together, right? Okay. Um, so I need a motion. Oh, wait, and I'm sorry. I'm going to open it up to the public. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on the vehicle replacement plan. Okay. Seeing no one, you know, rushing to talk about that. I will close public input and I need a motion.

So moved. Second.

Okay. So I'll go to commission comments, starting with the maker of the motion, commissioner Sandberg.

Really nothing more to add mayor. It's, uh, it's gotta be done and it's obviously it's in good hands and being very competently and professionally handled. Thank you.

Uh, and seconder in motion, commissioner Gao. Thank you.

Mayor. Just wanted to say, well done, Scott and Dean. Uh, since I've been on the day as we've just leaps and bounds and the way we look at our replacement vehicles and the data and being data driven and, and structured. So thank you all very much.

And, uh, commissioner to guard.

Nope. No comments. Very supportive.

Good job. And vice mayor.

Yeah. You, uh, you, uh, you have taken all of our comments and our questions and you've incorporated it into your tracking system. And, uh, I have to say it's good.

And I'll just add that I've been on the dais since 2016. It's the best I've ever seen, but I worked for the city for, I won't say how many years. Um, and it's the best I've ever seen. This is really good. Very based in fact. And really, and I, and I actually like the, you know, I call it the kindergarten pictures because it really helps people understand that we're not just looking at what they look like, but we're like digging deeper and making sure. So I, um, commend, uh, Scott, especially you, but Sue, both of you. So thank you very much.

Thank you.

You're welcome. And, uh, I will, uh, all in favor.

Aye. Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. And I know that some of you have already taken in between breaks, but we're going to take an official break for about five minutes or, you know, we'll try to hold it to five minutes or 10. We're going to bring the meeting back in order. And we to 3C acceptance of the Midtown parking garages, three statements of qualifications from shortlisted firms. And I'm going to go to Mr. Bob Ironsmith. He'll do his staff presentation.

Yes, Mayor, Commissioner Bob Ironsmith, Director of Economic Development. Uh, tonight what we have before you is, uh, three, uh, shortlisted, uh, firms to build the, uh, downtown parking garage. If you recall, uh, we went ahead and purchased that property at, uh, Douglas and Scotland. And the next step was to move forward with, uh, getting, uh, contractors for, uh, the proposed parking garage. We went out for an RFQ. So what's before you is the statement of qualifications, which is the three shortlisted firms. They are FinFROC, uh, Coquelac is contracting, and then creative contracting. Uh, from here, what the next step would be, would be a, uh, request for a proposal. That would be submitted to the three recipients. And from there, we'd go ahead and, uh, review them. Uh, in this case, we had an evaluation, uh, panel. We'll have, again, have another evaluation panel. I also have, uh, engineer Clay Watkins here, too, to answer any additional questions that maybe I can add.

Answer. Okay. Questions for Bob. I will start with Commissioner Gow.

No questions, Mayor.

Commissioner Dugard.

No questions, Mayor.

Vice Mayor.

No questions. Commissioner Sandbergen.

No questions. I think they were excellent presentations there. They really were comprehensive. So, thank you. Okay.

I, I don't really have any questions either. This is pretty straightforward. Um, except who was on the evaluation committee? I'm sure it was in the staffing.

Uh, certainly. It was, uh, it was myself. Um, I'm trying to think. Uh, Trevor Davis, uh, Sue Bartlett, and Clay, I think. And Joey was also. Yeah. Joey DePasqua. Our building.

That sounds like a pretty bad. A pretty bad group. No. Just a joke. Just a joke.

You know, what was nice on this is, uh, we actually had, uh, seven, uh, firms that came in. So, that was a pretty good participation. And, of course, now we shortlisted three. And these are three good ones. You know, Finn Frock, Kokolakis Contracting, Creative Contracting. We have, we have some good ones here. Yeah, you do. So, we're very excited about that.

Yeah. I don't recognize the one, but, you know, obviously the other two are great and they've done work for us. Um, okay. I don't have any other questions either. So, uh, we will go to opening public input. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue. Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input and I will ask for a motion.

So moved.

Second. Okay. And, uh, I will go to, uh, final comments. Uh, the maker of the motion is Vice Mayor.

Uh, just echo my colleagues, uh, Commissioner Sandberg. And, uh, those, the statements of qualification were very comprehensive and very, um, very good. So, you know, I'm confident that you, you down selected to the right three companies. Okay.

And seconder of the motion, Commissioner Dugard.

Um, three good firms. I'm looking forward to see their proposal.

Okay. Uh, uh, Commissioner Gow. No comments.

No comments. Okay.

And, uh, Commissioner Sandberg.

Nothing to add, Mayor. Okay.

I don't have anything to add either. So, but, uh, um, when do we expect these back? When do they come back?

Uh, it'll be a little bit of time before I get it back. I would say probably time we go out, we get it back. It's going to be a couple months before we come back to you. Is that Clay? Is that a fair assessment?

That's a fair assessment.

Yes. Okay. Great. Okay. Then I will, uh, find my place here and all in favor.

Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? So, four to one. Okay. I assume that's on principle for the parking garage. Okay. Thank you. Um, okay. Um, all right. So, four to one. Um, it passes. Um, so, we'll go to 3D. Award of multi-year continuing services contract. A bid, uh, number 25-2542. Stormwater and sanitary sewer. Cured in place pipe lining. Do vortex services, LLC, as indicated in the budget impact section. I'll go to Clay for presentation.

Uh, good evening, mayor, vice mayor, uh, commissioners. Clayton Watkins, utilities and engineering. Um, item 3D is the award of bid 25-2542. A multi-year continuing service contract for sanitary sewer, uh, and stormwater. Cured in, cured in place pipe or CIPP lining or just pipe lining, uh, to vortex services, LLC. Uh, the, the approval for tonight is just for the approval of the, the multi-year contract. Uh, this contract will be for three years and then have one, two-year continuing term if, if services are well. Um, separate task orders will be issued to the contractor from each department, um, for individual projects as we move forward. Um, um, each of those task orders are subject to commission approval, um, purchasing approval, and then budgetary restraints for each department. Um, wastewater collections and stormwater, wastewater collections and public works stormwater division uses pipe lining to extend the services of gravity sewer lines and stormwater. Um, pipe lining does not, uh, require excavation, reconstruction, or, uh, of existing pipes or restoration of the ground or pavement above them. Um, specifically wastewater collections uses the pipe lining to reduce groundwater infiltration and inflow, uh, into the gravity sewer system. And then thus also reduces unnecessary treatment in the wastewater treatment facility. Um, the project was competitively bid with four bidders received, uh, and evaluated. Uh, the prospective bidders were, uh, submitted a, a line, a cost per linear foot for each of these items. And we used those items to net, to delegate down to which of the one was the, had the least, was the least, the lowest responsive bidder. Excuse me. Um, that's why if you see on, um, item, your exhibit B, there is a total cost in that bid tab. That's the sum of all of them. That's just so we could set our criteria to which ones to evaluate against. Um, after performing the diligence, including checking references, uh, which provided, all of which provided side of factory feedback, um, Vortex Services, LLC of Riverview, Florida was found to be the lowest responsive and responsible bidder. Uh, as such staff hereby recommends commission approval of award of bid 25, 25, 42, a multi-year continuing service contract for cured in place pipe lining to Vortex Services, LLC. Um, and we're here for asking, to answer any questions. Okay.

Questions starting with vice mayor.

Thank you, mayor. Um, Vortex, this is the same company we awarded to last year. Or two years ago, right? Yeah. We have used them often.

Yes.

Yeah. Um, and you, there's a, if I recall, there's a process by which you evaluate, you know, or prioritize various areas to, to have this done. Yeah.

Specifically in, and like more can speak more for, for, for, for wastewater. Um, we have certain areas that we know where we were experiencing a lot of infiltration, uh, that we want to get pipelines. So we don't have that groundwater entering the system. Uh, specifically, I know, I would tell you within a month or so, you're going to see the, the, the wastewater portion of this come back. And I think we're looking at doing like the, the, um, golf, the golf course area, the Fairview Estates area.

Okay. So it's been, you're, you're still kind of marching through that. Yeah.

We have an area. We like, we, so each year we have budget roughly a million dollars each year. Next year, actually I think we're, we might be, we're moving that number, at least it's, it was previously up to 1.5. So we're working our way through our problem areas. Before we would have to piggyback a contractor, send this out each year. This way we get one contract. We've got the one contractor for five years and then we can just hit it and go every year with, with our, with our, with our CIP. Yes, we do TV to prioritize here. I think. Okay.

Uh, no further questions. Thank you.

Commissioner Sandberg. Questions.

So as I was reading about this and studying it, does it reduce the flow, the size of the, maybe the radius of the pipe?

It will reduce the radius of the pipe. Um, and when it comes, I, it would technically reduce the flow, but it's, it's not, it's the minimus to what would be a function of the pipe itself.

Are we being forced by some environmental folks to do this or are we just being proactive?

We're being proactive in this scenario, specifically on the wastewater side. But with, with, with older pipes, it allows the groundwater to infiltrate. And if we can seal that, basically what we're doing is we're going through and sealing the pipe from the inside. We're reducing that inflow of water that then for wastewater then goes into the treatment plant. So we're treating rainwater when we, that's just adding wear and tear to the plant that we don't need.

So, you know, you know, we've had some emergency pipe, some breakage. I would assume this couldn't be used then in drinking water. This is only for?

No, this, this, this specific is for, or is for gravity lines only. Okay. Non-pressurized. Okay.

That's all I had, Mayor.

Uh, Commissioner Gow. Questions?

Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, right. And this is not only to keep rainwater out and infiltration, but also what's the impact when you have those broken pipes and just age, right? Right. The, the clay pipes break. Sure. Does this, does this, is this a solution to repair those as well?

Yes. This is a solution to repair those. And it also, it lines, it's, it's less invasive is the best way to say that, you know, where they sit with a truck at a manhole, they run the pipe to the next manhole, they, they blow the product up and cure it in place. If not, we would have to then get crews out, go through, dig up the street or the road area, dig all that up, place the pipe, and then go back through, you know, and redo the road in that area. So it also reduces a lot of costs and, and for us, and it extends the life of the pipe.

And how long does it extend the life of the pipe?

Uh, we, we've estimated somewhere around 50 years. That's impressive.

And if I understand, help me understand the, the budget a little bit. But I'm used to the kind of the annual million dollars a year is what we've been spending. Uh, and then it looks like next year, we're going to kind of bump that up to 1.5.

That's, that's where it was played out in the budget. As we're going through this fiscal year, we'll be looking at that number.

Okay. You'll be looking at the one or the 1.5?

1.5. The one, the 1 million is, is, is this fiscal year we're currently in. This fiscal year. The 1.5 is what we projected out for it for 27. For 27. Yes.

And then help me understand the 250,000 per year after that. What?

So that, yeah. So right now the storm water, public works storm water has a million for this fiscal year in 26. Their current, um, the way it was currently budgeted, their five year CIP had them using 22,000, yeah, 2,500. Wow. $250,000 a year thereafter. So I think they were, they think they, they recently did a large run of pipes. So now they're kind of keeping it to hit some problem areas. Okay.

Uh, and just for the residents, do you know, are, are we tracking the number of pipes that we've done? How many miles of pipe we have in the, in the city? How many have we done? How many more to go? How many get done in any fiscal year? Yes, we do. Are we 5% done? Are we 50% done? We do keep track.

I do not. I do not. I would have to get back with you on the percentage that we actually have done to where we think we're at.

I think that's the, I think that is stuff that the residents go cool. All right. Cause you guys work hard at this. And, um, if you say, and if you can save construction and repair and nevermind, I'm getting into comments. Uh, I'm done, mayor. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Um, commissioner to guard questions.

Thank you, mayor. And thank you, commissioner Gow. Good questions. Um, I noticed that our, uh, provider that we're recommending is the lowest bidder. Correct. Okay. Um, we've worked with this particular bidder in the past. Yes, we have. Satisfied with work. Yes. Okay. I noticed that two of the bidders are from Missouri and two are from Florida. Have we ever worked with any of the other bidders?

Let me double check here. I'll be honest with you. I did not concentrate too much on the, the other, on low bidders. Let me, let me look who they were.

Checking process here.

Commissioner, while he looks, let me bail him out a little bit. A lot of times we'll find, uh, in these type of contracts, you'll get firms from up north that bid. Mm-hmm. Cause they're coming to do work when it's not freezing up north. And so they'll, they'll actually mobilize and create a local office to do the work here.

I would expect them to be a little bit lower though on their bid if that was their aim.

Well, yeah. They got unions up there. Um, so.

Okay. Yes, I did find them. We are very familiar with the, the second one on your list in situ reform technologies. They actually, uh, last year lined our outfall pipe to the wastewater treatment plant. Okay. Um, the other two I am not familiar with.

The reason I'm asking is a lot of times inside bidding processes, as you know, it's, it's a trade, um, culture. And inside the trade culture, sometimes one bidder will say to another, you know, I'll get this one and you get the next one, that kind of thing. And I just want to make sure that's not what we're dealing with here.

Not to any of our knowledge is, you know, we, well, and we handle the, the, our engineering or, or wastewater, every, all bidding is handled through purchasing.

Okay. Well, I'm, I'm not worried about our system as much as I am once it gets out our door and what the culture will do.

And I, I don't know, I have no knowledge of anything outside of us.

All right. And we only had four responses to the bid and these are the four. Yes, sir. Okay. That's all the questions I have, Mayor. Thank you.

Okay. Um, I don't have any additional questions. Um, so I will, uh, open it up for public comment. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Seeing no one, I will close public input and, uh, go to, I need a, uh, I need a motion.

So moved. Second.

Got it. And so we'll go to, uh, commission comments, uh, final comments. And, uh, Commissioner DeGuard as a maker of motion, I'll go to you.

Uh, I'll keep my comments brief. This looks like the, um, ideal situation with a good provider that we have experience with is a low bidder. Uh, and this is a project that we need to continue and do every year. That's concluding my comments. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. And seconder of the motion was commissioner Walker.

Uh, no additional comments.

Okay. Uh, commissioner Sandberg.

Nothing to add.

Mayor. Okay.

Commissioner Gow. Uh, I'll just keep it brief and y'all decide whether it's brilliant or not. Uh, yeah, just, it is something I do every year, but I really do think it's working smarter, not harder. And I, I, I hope that the residents would appreciate that and see that. And so that's why I asked a lot of those questions. And so they understand it a lot better, but, but thank you for the work that you all do. So we can claim.

Okay. I just wrote down proactive and smart. There you go. So I'll leave it at that. Um, and, uh, all in favor.

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Um, we have a start item, uh, which is renaming of old city hall site to grand Oak park, and I need a motion to put it on the agenda.

So moved.

Second.

Okay.

Uh, all in favor. Aye. Okay. So it is on the agenda. Motion passes unanimously and I will go to Bob for staff presentation. Yes.

Bob Ironsmith, economic development director. This is an item that came up in, uh, previous, uh, commission meetings. And then what the discussion was to go ahead and, uh, have it on a future meeting, which is tonight, obviously January 22nd, as far as renaming of the park, which used to be the former city hall. Uh, obviously we're going forward with enhancements to the park and it came up to, uh, really some discussion of what should be the naming of the park. What we direct, what was directed from the commission was to go ahead and talk to our historian, uh, Vinnie Luisi. Talk about, uh, some past ties. What would be the best interest for the naming of this park? And certainly there were different ideas that were circulated. But the one that came to the top, the one that was the dominant, was Grand Oak Park. And the reason for that was main street used to be known as Oak street years ago. And obviously there was trees along main street for many years. And then those trees, uh, came down. But that grand... By the men.

By the men. Let's make sure we tell the whole story.

Okay. Yeah.

By the men. Against the women's, you know, against the women's...

That's true. Late at night or late at night?

Yeah, late at night.

Let's make sure you get the whole story right.

No, that, that is true. The men told the women to go home and, uh, they went ahead and did it in the middle of the night, which is a yes. But, um, there's certainly a Grand Oak there today, which is a beautiful, uh, Grand Oak. And certainly there's been a lot of, um, interest in making sure that it's healthy. And, uh, in the past years, the city made sure that it didn't bifurcate and had a, uh, a nice, uh, um, control kind of pipe in there to keep it all together. And so the name that really always comes up is Grand Oak Park. So that is staff recommendation to you is Grand Oak Park. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

Okay. Questions, uh, for Bob, uh, starting with, uh, Commissioner Gaul.

Are, from my understanding there, there might be some other parks in the city with that name

or similar name? Uh, my understanding, I, I, I know Tony's here, not Grand Oak. I think there might be something Tony, was it Oak Park? Oak Tree. Oak Tree. Oak Tree. So a little bit different, but yeah, there's a little bit of similarity there. But we think Grand Oak Park really stands out. Yeah. Vanilla, French vanilla. Same thing. Um, that's all that I have. Thank you.

Okay. Commissioner Dugard.

What were the runner up names? Uh, municipal service park, which we didn't think. Wow. That even made the list. I missed opportunities. Well, as you know, it was a library. It was a city hall. Yeah. So we had municipal service park, but we, that didn't seem to be too catchy to us. So we didn't really, you know, put that in the staff. As good as it got. That was the past, the other name that was given for it. That's all I have, Mayor.

Yeah.

I guess I have.

That is enough, right? Okay. Vice Mayor.

Well, that was my question as well. I was wondering what were the, what were the, what was the runner up? Yeah. And, uh, well, okay. Um, I have no further questions.

Okay. Uh, Commissioner Sandbergen.

Not really anything to add, but, uh, I could just really picture a good looking sign probably facing main street with that name on it. Yeah.

We'd probably, uh, yeah, you know, we do have the, uh, brick, uh, entryway there, you know, used to say city hall. So we might want to go ahead and utilize that, uh, for recognition on it. Okay. That's all I had.

Uh, Vice Mayor, you had.

You know, I just had a thought and I should have had this thought a while ago. Is this a question? It is.

Okay. Just checking. When you had a thought, it didn't sound like a question.

Was there, was there any thought of going out to the community and doing a naming contest? Oh, God.

Oh, I think she could answer that. Let me help with that. If I may. Let's read you the kilt. Yeah. That's right. No, actually, we, we did talk about that. Okay. Uh, quite a bit, as a matter of fact. We were concerned about, uh, going out to the community if, um, the number one vote-getter, does that win? Is that what you named the park? And there are some examples in history of some pretty disastrous number one vote-getters. Vote-getters. Vote-getters. Right. One was in England, actually, where they named, uh, uh, a brand new submarine that was, uh, high-tech, state-of-the-art, uh, what is it? Boaty McBoat? Right. Boaty McBoat Face. Right. So, we didn't want this to be Parky McPark Face. Boaty McBoat Face. But, no, we, we did, we did talk about that, um, and then, right, exactly. And, and then, you know, there's, do you name it after someone, um, and that was, you know, we have many, many people who have passed away who are notable, and how do you, how do you weigh that? And so, we came up with what we thought was, um, a very good descriptive name for the park, which I was thinking it might be kind of fun, too, to put a QR code with the story of, uh, the Grand Oaks on Main Street and how they came down. And it was actually, as I was, the story goes, it was actually the city manager who persuaded the women to go home. Oh.

Oh. I didn't know that part. I didn't know that part of it.

No. Yeah. Yes.

And so, yeah. But at that time, was the city manager a man or a woman? Yes. Yes.

I thought so. But anyway. I knew so, actually. Yeah. No, it's really kind of an interesting story. Sorry, guys. Interesting story. Uh, and also, um, just going back into the archives, there was really nothing exceptional besides that tree, which we built the park around.

So, we got the Grand Oak, we have the history. So, it tells a good story.

Yes. I kind of wish I just said yes or no answer, please.

No. You know, it's funny. Like, I think actually early on, when we were still talking about old City Hall Park, I was talking to the city manager behind the scenes and you actually said, that could be kind of fun to have a naming thing. Yes, I did. And then she checked it out and she said, ah, yeah, no. Yeah.

And then I talked to staff and that was the end of that. Yeah.

It was like, that was that. Um, anyway. Um, so, I do not have any questions about it. Um, so, I will then go to open public input. Does anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input. I need a motion.

So moved. Second.

Okay. Okay. So, commission comments, starting with the maker of the motion, uh, Commissioner Dugard.

Uh, with the exhaustive process that we've gone through and the considerations of every possible way to do it badly. We came to this one and I'm pleased to say this is a great title for a park. So, that's my comments. Okay. Second or the motion is vice mayor.

Yeah.

So, as we were just going through the process by which we arrived at this point, um, you did say one thing and this is, this is exactly what I was thinking is I love the idea of memorializing the park with not only a name like, and I think the name is very fitting for the area, but also in some element, the history of that area. I, I really think, you know, that, that kind of ties this all together for me. And, uh, uh, yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm in favor of this.

Well, Commissioner Sandberg.

Really nothing to add. I mean, it's going to be a great addition to that part of town. Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's nice looking the way it is now. It's good looking, you know, with all the green space and the trees. So, it's going to be a real valuable asset to that, that downtown. Thank you.

Uh, Commissioner Gow.

Thank you. Uh, vice mayor kind of stole all of my thunder. Uh, yeah, you know, I, I do wonder on some small level whether it is a, uh, opportunity missed on not throwing it out there and having a contest for the residents. Um, I have, I know the names we would have received. Some of them would have been a little curious. Uh, but also I think we really got some really cool names and just the more we can interact with our residents, the better. Um, but I will tell you to further piggyback on the vice mayor. Yeah. You really, you really got me on this when you talked about the QR code and the history and being able to tie that all together is just wonderful. And, and not that I had anything against the name. I'm, most likely if we had a contest, this would have been the name anyway. Um, uh, but yeah, uh, well done, Bob. Well done, staff.

Good. So, I love the name. Um, you know, it's so funny. You don't even think of stuff like that. I'm, I'm so glad we're not calling it Old City Hall Park after tonight though. That's going to be my favorite part. But I mean, I, you know, it's funny when you guys came up with it. It's like, it's so seems so obvious. It's a great name. It defines the site. That tree has always defined the site. I've told the story where I was there when those, the big rods were put in or what do you want to call it? The big chains. And at that time, cause this is like, you know, I mean, Tom Anderson, Tom, Tom Anderson was the mayor and, and he was out speaking at something and he said, yeah, we paid $5,000 to get that thing shored up. And I, after he spoke, you know, when no one was listening, I said it was actually $25,000. And, you know, mind you, that's, you know, that's, that's a ways back. So, um, it, it, it just fits. And, um, I, I would kindly request that maybe I could help write it. You know, so, you know, we make sure the story is told fairly from a woman's point of view.

Well, I, if, if I may, may, what probably we'll do is we'll work with Vinnie and we'll get a draft or something and be able to show it to everybody.

And, uh, I think telling the story is fantastic because again, it's just another point of interest and people can read about our history. So to me, that's a great reason. You name it and tell the story. I mean, that's what people come to Dineen to see. So I love it. And, uh, so I will go to a voice vote. Uh, all in favor. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes unanimously. Good job. And from now on, there's a demerit. Anybody that calls it old city hall park, I'll speak.

No old city hall park and no a municipal service park. Yeah.

That, that, that was a weak runner up. I'm going to tell you right now. So actually the end of that story, cause I had to look it up when Tony and I were talking about, about, about Bodie McBoatface is that they actually did not name it that they named it Richard Attenborough. And then people were mad at the Explorer. At the Explorer. Well, they still called it Bodie McBoatface. All the people did. That's so funny.

Yeah. Public's going to do what the public's going to do.

Exactly. That's right. Okay. All right. We have our second start item. Lynn's been waiting all night for it. So, um, start item, which is award of piggyback agreement for the old city hall. I'm sorry. For the Grand Oak Park. Ah. Grand Oak Park, uh, restroom facility to public restroom facility to, to public restroom company in the amount of 454,679. Did I read that right? Okay. I need a motion.

So moved. Second.

Okay. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Uh, okay. Motion passes unanimously. And, uh, so we can go to staff presentation again. Mr. Robert Ironsmith. Yes.

Mayor and commissioners. This is the, the piggyback for a, uh, a small bathroom to be at Grand Oak Park. Uh, this, um, we have the contractor going to start here in February, which is Malley on the improvements, the brick pavers, Pergo. The, the last element to this is a bathroom. And, uh, this is a view actually from Grand Street. The architecture was approved by the architectural review committee. Uh, we went ahead and piggybacked with a company called Source. And it does take seven or eight months to actually get the bathroom. Okay. It is a prefab. We would, when we go ahead and start the improvements out there, stub it out for the utilities. And, um, tonight what we're looking at is to go forward with that award for the piggyback. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

Okay. Uh, we'll go to questions and we start with the vice mayor.

Thank you, mayor. Um, what kind of feedback have we received from the surrounding businesses?

I haven't directly gone door to door, uh, vice mayor, but in general, uh, the feedback that I have gotten has been pretty positive. I think a lot of the merchants, uh, are always concerned about people just coming in and using their bathrooms. So I think this gives an opportunity, especially on East end. If you remember this whole initiative was part of what was called the deep, the downtown East end plan. Uh, the downtown East end plan was Skinner, uh, the city hall structure that got built, the Skinner Boulevard. And then of course the, this revitalization of the old city hall. So the bathrooms were always a component of it. It was not an add on. It was always something that was looked at that we need to activate the East end of downtown, especially when the gateway gets started. What we find out is with a lot of our, uh, special events, arts and crafts and things of that nature that people are looking for a facility. And, you know, there is a walk to go to the museum and it could be a line. So this was another option and avenue for people to use something on East end.

Okay. Uh, that, that helps. And, um, now, you know, as part of this, you know, before we make this decision, it would be good to know that, you know, that, that you've discussed or a, there's a plan in place by which the restrooms remain clean. Um, they remain, um, unoccupied over the course of the evenings. Yeah. Um, anyway, I'm just curious as to how, what your thoughts are on that.

No, I, I think they're very good thoughts. And, uh, yeah, certainly cleanliness is a big one and we are looking to have timers on them. Uh, so they close down so they're not just open all night type situations. So we don't have a situation that's developed out there. I know Jorge has been key on that. So we want to make sure that this does stay very, you know, very, very good shape. And he's going to be brand new too, which is nice. And they'd be well serviced. Uh, public services will have their, uh, I guess they have a contractor or custodian that will monitor this.

Okay. Is this pretty much the same kind of process we have at Edgewater Park?

Uh, boy, I gotta defer to Jorge a little bit. Yes. Yes. Okay.

It automatically locks at night. Right. Which is what we do at Edgewater Park. Okay.

The other thing I want to mention, this is the view from Grand Street. I have talked to Hanu. Obviously they're the one directly opposite and Hanu is comfortable with it. It's what Kim shared with me. Uh, this is really still an open vista, you know, to Main Street. And you can see the bathrooms are well landscaped, uh, and have a nice architectural relief to them. So this is not something that, uh, you know, with the metal roof and all, this is a good looking little pocket park is what I call it. So it's a nice looking site. So it's, it's something that I know the Hanu has, um, outside seating there. Certainly. Uh, they just put in some improvements themselves. Uh, cause I worked with Kim a little bit. We gave them a facade grant actually. Uh, so I think this is still a very nice look, uh, out there. Okay. Those are all the questions I have. Thank you.

Okay. Um, Commissioner Sandberg in questions.

What's the total square footage of this structure? Wow.

You know what? I don't know if I can answer that right off the bat, to be honest with you. Uh, Commissioner. Let me see if it's on here. I don't think it's on here though. I don't know. Your eyes burn mine. Yeah. Here, I got a floor plan. Let's take a look. 3D. No, I don't have dimensions on here. I'd have to get back to you.

Okay. Yeah. For 450 some odd thousand. Are you sure that prefab is the way to go?

Yeah, we are. We did look at that. I actually have talked to Jorge a little bit. We talked about all the construction projects, the pram shelter and things of that nature. So yeah, it does seem very high for the square footage that you mentioned. But, uh, this is what these things run today. Yeah.

You know, and I know we had a chance to talk about this. I, and I, I am serious. I, I've talked to a dozen people and only one was in favor of unisex bathrooms. So I would really like to see a men's room, a women's room. And then of course the family, um, restroom. What are your thoughts about that? Am, am I wrong in thinking that we should go men's and women's? Uh, yeah.

Uh, just, just, just my own personal thoughts. I certainly haven't done a survey, survey or anything. I think the original intent was, gee, let it be open so we can service more people during special events and things. So try not to have long lines. Uh, on the other hand, I certainly know that, uh, uh, you know, uh, sometimes, uh, women like to have their own, uh, restroom facility. Right. I, I understand both. Well, that's what I hear. I mean, I know it sounds awkward.

You can ask the women up here, but no.

Yeah, no, please do. I mean, we, you know, I hear, you know, since you brought it up, we started to do a little bit of research right before the meeting. Yeah. And, uh, you know, there's two ways to look at it. And, um, you do see a lot of restaurants today do unisex. So it's not novel by any means. So it really just comes out to what is, uh, desirable. You know, what you, what we think the most preference is, so.

Because the one that said that she was in favor of unisex, and she's probably right. There's always a line at the women's.

Correct.

And the men's is more open. And I'm thinking just from cleanliness. I mean, I'm not trying to make this into any kind of a joke. No. I'm pretty serious about this, you know, in talking to people. And, you know, especially.

I'd like to have my own bathroom back here. I know that.

Well. And it's a unisex. Okay. Now we're getting, we're going somewhere. Oh my God. You know, I, I mean, I don't want to sit. Yeah, this, this. Yeah. So we do have, we do have one back here. That's right.

Well, there is a, yeah. And we're, my department is, economic is unisex also. Where your department?

Yeah.

Okay. There's, there's, there's both. Okay. There's men's, there's women's, and there's a unisex. Yeah. That's, yep. I think we should just give that some thought. We're not going to sit here all night and ping pong it back and forth, but.

Wait, what's the plan now though? What is the plan?

Uh, the plan right now was the, the, the unisex and then a family bathroom. Oh.

So what I'm saying is a men's, a women's, and the. There's three. The family unisex. I mean, you know, in the event that family has to, mom and dad have to go in with a child. I completely understand that. Um, and the other, my other concern is it looks like in this picture, this is going to be facing southwest. So it's going to get a lot of afternoon sun. It's going to be hot. Is this building going to be air conditioned?

You know, there's quite a bit of trees though, to the west. I know. There's quite a bit, quite a bit of shade there.

No. Uh, no, it wasn't planned.

No, it will not be air conditioned.

Yeah. It was not planned. Okay. So it's going to face southwest in that afternoon sun. It's going to be hot. It's going to be.

I don't think people will be in there for a long time.

I don't think. They don't want him in there for a long time.

Somebody. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. There is a pretty good shade canopy there, but yes, it can get warm. It could get warm.

And then of course we would need signs in Pioneer Park because right now, you know, if there is a family in Pioneer Park and they need to use the restroom, I'm really against them running into our merchants. I don't know why. I just think that the merchants, that's for their patrons. But I'm also, I've been asked many times downtown, where's the nearest public restroom? Well, you point them to the, you go to the trail and take a left. Well, if you, you know, walk fast down the trail there, you could walk right past that. So I think this is really, this is really important to our downtown. And I've said it for years, even said on the LPA, that we need restrooms on that east end of Main Street. And I don't know why, but if we're going to spend $450,000, I'm going to really, really push for a men's and a women's. Maybe even increasing the size. I mean, at $450,000, we're already, you know, we're in for a penny already, but.

We wanted to be cautious with the size because we didn't want to block the merchants there on Grand Street. So it wasn't something, we wanted something that fit in there, too. We got that grand oak tree. We needed to be careful with the roots and things. And the current existing utilities are there from the old city hall. Right. But we were very, not looking to make it any larger. We didn't want to block any of the merchants enough. Okay. We wanted to fit in. We didn't want to dominate, scale-wise, the rest of the park with the brick pavers, the seating, and the pergo. I think this is the right size.

That's my only concern. That's all I have, Mayor. Commissioner?

Jorge Quintas, Deputy City Manager, to your earlier question. I'm looking at the renderings for the floor plan of the building. And based on the inside dimensions, it's about a little over 260 square foot for the three restroom units and the mechanical room along the back, which is where all the plumbing will be and can be serviced. You're a lot quicker at math.

What does that come out to a square foot? Let me do the math for you. 200, over 200, yeah, it is. Yeah. I mean, it's 450,000. Yeah. So 450,000 divided by how much?

260. 1,730 dollars.

Wow. I think I just, yeah. Okay.

That's about all I needed to hear. Well, to add to that, when we were first looking at this and we worked with Mason Blau Architects, who had the landscape architect as a sub-consultant, we did some pricing on if you just did a conventional design of a restroom building and then you were to put that out to bid and all the other consultants that would need to be hired, the mechanical, the plumbing and all that. And at the time, he indicated that if we went that route, he thought the cost would be somewhere at $800,000. So that's why we went with the prefab because even though it's expensive, there's the cost. And if you look at the staffing, it's not just the cost of the building. As we went through the architectural review committee, there's cladding that we wanted to do so it wouldn't look industrial. There's the shipping and the installation costs and the crane costs. So that's kind of how you get up to the $450,000. But even so, if we were to do a conventional design bid build of a restroom, he indicated that he thought it would be in excess of $800,000.

I didn't catch what you said. What was the city, did you say the city staff had a rough idea what the cost?

The consultant, the general engineering consultant, the architect that we hired, Mason Blau, who we've used before. They designed the EOC and they were also architects on a couple different buildings throughout the city. So we hired the landscape architect as a sub-consultant through Mason Blau, who's done plenty of work for us. And they tend to have a cost consultant as a part of their projects. And when they looked at what we were wanting to do, if we went the conventional design route, that's when he said, he said, I'm taking work away from myself, but I would recommend that you go this route.

So $457,000 is for the plumbing? The connections are there.

It's a preset building. It comes, it's got all the plumbing, and they set it down, and they basically just make the connections. That's where I was going. So the plumbing's there, there's electrical, everything.

Everything's in. And we're still at $1,700 a square foot. I have nothing else, Mayor.

Okay.

Well, that shouldn't be there.

Okay, Commissioner Goff?

Questions? Yes, thank you. Just, I know we've done a lot talking about square footing, square foot, but I just look at the one brochure, rendering, whatever you want to call it, and it looks as though my knees will hit the front door. So it is bigger than that, right? There will be room on the inside. Yeah, these are ADA compliant restaurants. Oh, okay. And how many, given that right now we're calling them unisex, how many stalls per bathroom? There's one.

Okay. Yeah, if you look at the one rendering.

That would make sense. I just wanted to.

If you look at the one rendering with the floor plan, I'm sorry. I don't have it up on the screen.

You open the door and you're in there. There's no stall. Yeah.

So there's. Three. Show them that. I'm looking at it. Give it to them. Oh. But yeah, so it's the two end units, I believe, are ADA compliant. The center one, I believe, is just a conventional restroom. Right.

Okay. And right, it's one unisex, one family? Was it two unisex?

I believe so. To Commissioner Sandberg.

Because I thought I heard three there somewhere, so I thought maybe two unisex. So there's two unisex, one family. Two unisex, one family. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And at the risk of having things thrown at me, I'm like you all, I'm living the aftermath of a cart barn, which was prefab, and this is prefab. This will have a better outcome. I know that I'm ripping off a Band-Aid. I get that.

The cart barn was a pre-assembled structure. This is a, it's delivered, they drop it in place, she's done.

Okay. So there is a difference.

That's a lot. And part of that question. And my very articulate Parks and Rec director behind me said that part of the cost is because we're paying for the downtown fit and finish that the architectural review committee recommended.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, because part of that was anticipating the residents of Fairway Estates and Facebook and just wanting to have a heyday with anything close to this. So as long as we can get out in front of it. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am. Commissioner Dugard, questions?

When was the last time we built a bathroom facility?

The last one downtown I remember would be at Florida Park.

We did, I think since then we did the Elizabeth Skinner Park, which is a prefab restroom that was done probably 2017, 2018. But that one is quite a bit more industrial looking than this is and it's a single unit. Okay.

What was our square, what was our cost for that?

I don't recall, sir.

That was quite some time ago. Okay. I know I'm digging here, but you understand the optics of us building a facility at $1,700 a square foot. I understand, sir.

Okay.

That's a little challenging because there's not many citizens, probably me included, that understands why that's so high. And that's a challenge. And we don't want a challenge here. Let's just face it. We want to go through with this because we want the park to be finished. But the reality is those people out there that are sharpening their pencils on us are going to look at this and give us a hard time because it's pretty expensive.

My only comment to that is when you're building your restroom at home, you're not building an ADA compliant restroom and you're not following public procurement process.

Okay.

I get that.

The second problem then is it's also because it's piggybacked. There's not a bid process.

Well, it was competitively bid. Okay.

Help me understand that because that could get us covered here.

So this company, there was a contract that was put out. They competitively bid. I believe it's a cooperative contract that people can use throughout the country.

This was a low bidder?

I believe so.

Yeah. Sourcewell. This was a low bidder. Mm-hmm. How many bids did we have?

We didn't bid it. It was...

No, we didn't bid it. We went with...

It's a contract that allows us to piggyback. We did not bid it ourselves.

Okay. So there's a process around which we're piggybacking on and somebody else bids this company.

Yeah, this is not unlike what we just looked at earlier this evening with the vehicle replacement. I understand the piggyback concept. That's also a Sourcewell contract, just to point that out.

Hmm. Okay. I have no further questions.

Okay. Well, I mean, I did have business owners in the area originally with concerns about what would happen if there's a bathroom there, you know, loitering, other issues, whatever. And you're confident that the business owners around that area are good?

Yeah. I mean, it's something that's been in the works for quite some time. And as I mentioned, a lot of the merchants don't like people just coming in and using their bathroom. You know, the one that's probably the most impacted is Hanu. I have talked to Kim. I think initially she was not as excited. I think now she's pretty much comfortable with it. You know, again, when I look at this view, it's a pretty open corridor and the bathroom is landscaped. I mean, it looks very nice. If you were sitting outside across the street, I don't think there's anything here that would challenge you. And I know, you know, it sounded very funny. I said, in a way, a bathroom is an activity center. People come and use this park and they get to see the Hanu, which is kind of nice too. You know, they get to sit there. They see what's happening across the street. So it's a visibility too.

So what would the hours of the bathroom be?

Boy, I'd have to defer to public services. I mean, typically it would probably be the same as what's done over at the museum. Which is what?

What is that?

I believe it's sunup to sundown.

I think that we'd actually have to talk about that because this is an active area. And, you know, our parks are sunup to sundown. But they are, you know, active in the downtown area a lot later. So I think that we'd have to discuss that with this.

Yeah, I thought the, excuse me, I thought the museum, I thought the ones by the museum were around 10 o'clock, but I could be. Yeah, I think so too. I could be. 10 o'clock at night.

Rene knows. 11. So 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. Right.

I have a question for you, Rene. Do you mind coming? Would you come forward?

You know you're here. We're going to talk to you. Deputy Rene. I didn't ask you about idling.

So are there issues down by that restroom, the museum restrooms? I mean, you get issues there with people hanging out, you got to clear it out.

No, the only issue we had previously was that someone was propping the door in the evening, but that was resolved. You know, it was very short. Okay.

But no, we don't have any issues. Okay. Do you have any reason to think it'll be any different on this end of town? I don't believe so.

Yeah. I mean, just from my experience, you know, walking with it, I think that it's probably going a good thing. Yeah. You know, just for the people downtown, you know, that patronize these businesses.

Right. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Hey, you had to stay all night. You might as well answer your question, right? So how does the lock work, though? Like, let's say somebody's in the bathroom, and it automatically locks. Like, how does that work?

I think it's a magnetic lock. So when the door closes, it locks. So if there's somebody inside, they can open it.

They can get out, but they, you know. Yeah. You what? Okay. Gotcha. Okay. People find creative ways to hang out in there all night, especially in the cold. Okay. Can you say that in the mic? Sorry, because people really can't hear you if they're watching. Yeah.

When we check the restrooms, especially when I'm working in the evening, that I'll go in and I'll check each and every stall just to make sure that someone's not, you know, camping out. But they do automatically lock, so we'll check the exterior door. And if it happens to be open, that we'll go and check each stall. But that I know some, that if it was, you know, malfunctioning for some reason, like I got with Tony last week about that, that we notify the Parks and Rec Department just to make sure they're aware of that.

Okay. We won't get into much detail about malfunctioning. Okay. I think I'm good.

Thank you. You know, I think the characteristics of this area are going to be a little bit different, too. This is not near some of the bars and alcohol. It's just a little bit different setting, too, compared to the one by the museum. Yeah.

I know. I totally get it. So, the unisex. So, there's got to be places that have done men, women, family versus unisex. Sure. And they must have some, like, oh, yeah, this is so much more efficient to have two. You know, truthfully, what happens now is, I mean, you know, there's a men and a women's. I mean, it happens all the time at Lucky Lobster. So, there's a men and a women's. You're waiting in line. The women's line is longer. So, you slip into the men's. So, sooner or later, the women are going to be in a men's room. We're going to have to put up with that part of it. But is it better to just have two unisex anyway? I don't know. So, I guess, is there a business reason that you pick a certain way, or? No.

It was just strictly, I think, the landscape architect that did it. It was looking at, hey, these are during special events and things. Both are open for both genders. I think that's really what it was. So, there wouldn't be any long lines. That was strictly it. Yeah.

I mean, I guess you could look at it. Let me throw this out. You guys don't throw stuff at me. But you could say, oh, they're way long lines, because there's only one bathroom. And the men's is flying by. And the women's is creeping along. And, you know, that's not fair. What do you think, city manager? You're a woman.

Well, I actually, and there are some establishments in Dunedin that have unisex only. Oh, right. Yeah.

And Lucky Lobster is one of them, right? Yeah. They have a unisex, and then they have the...

One dedicated. Yeah. I'd actually...

But there are some that only have unisex.

Oh, you're right. Right. Yeah. Unisex is, you know, they're doing it throughout Europe, I mean, and in all sorts of other areas. I think that... I think I knew. I think both theirs. And they have both. Yeah. They could do both, but they do unisex.

Yeah. Yeah, they do. If it helps the conversation any, the floor plan, there's no urinals. They all have toilets.

Right.

There's no urinals. Well, that's a relief. I'm just saying.

No matter what.

Oh, my God. But this is really going downhill, isn't it? Absolutely.

You brought it up. I've been thinking about it all week, yeah.

I think... You better not have talked about it Wednesday, though, at your men's thing or whatever. Yeah.

Sorry, go ahead. That's all right. This is an area I see that's going to be heavily trafficked, especially during our special events. And I think it's important to get people in and out quickly. And I think that if we could start it unisex, and if there's trouble or problems, and we hear a lot about it, then we can always switch it over. But I'd like to try the unisex and see if we can... More flexibility. Yes.

Right. Okay. So, I think Commissioner Degard had another question or comment to that.

Kind of a combination. I don't want to make a vote in a state of ignorance. And that's what I'm afraid I'm about ready to do. But this square footage rate has put a pretty big rock in the road for me on this one. Help me understand if this is usual and customary for this kind of facility, and give me some evidence to support that so my vote can be able to proceed.

Well, to your question, I guess, the only thing I can talk about is if you look at the product base list for pricing, there's multiple different models that you can go with. You can go single stalls. You can go multiple stalls. You can go with family series. You can go with concession stands, exterior showers, storage buildings. You know, there's a whole plethora of things. And prices range from $128,000 up to looks like in excess of 500 and something thousand dollars, depending on the size and model. Now, in this particular case, the one that we've selected, which again went through extensive review of the Architectural Review Committee, the base unit, it's called PS033, is $232,736. The shipping is $34,910. The installation is $58,184. There's a crane cost of $23,274. Alcove is, and some other initials that I don't know what they stand for, $22,343. Um, CE, uh, post, which I think is the concrete, uh, post on the outside of the building, $35,492. In this case, we've got the brick wainscoting. A lot of that was, uh, input received from the Architectural Review Committee, so we, so it wouldn't look so industrial. That's just shy of $30,000, as well as some, uh, lap siding, which is in excess of $17,000. So you, you've taken a restroom that's $232,736, and you've added upgrades of $221,216, which gets you to the $457,000. So there's the base unit, which would be an industrial-looking restroom, and then there's these add-ons. Um, we're still gonna pay shipping to get it here. I think these things are fabricated in Nevada, um, and the installation cost is what it is. And as I mentioned previously, they come completely outfitted. All, all the fixtures, um, are included. The roofing's included. You just set them down, and you make the utility connections, and you're done.

Thank you. That's all I have.

Okay, um, I think I had one other question over here.

Yeah, just one quick question. I just want to confirm what I understand, um, because I got confused. The piggyback agreement means that the county has already competed this for a contract, and that's what we're using.

Yeah, that's Sourcewell in Minnesota.

They stated a source, yeah, they selected a source.

Yeah, they went out for a competitive bid. It's just like if someone tried to piggyback to something that we went out to bid on. So, yes. Okay. It was, as Jorge said, competitively bid. I think the other thing that Jorge got across, there's a lot of gingerbread on this bathroom,

too. May I jump in? Uh, some details. I am reviewing the contract from Sourcewell, and it looks like it went out to 12 vendors. Uh, it looks like, uh, nine of those, uh, or 10 of them were responsible, uh, responsive bidders on that.

Okay. All right. That's what I thought. So, yeah, no, I'm, I'm back on track with this. How much is a square feet, again, for this?

Um, I did some quick math. The side slab looks like it's 22 foot, four inches by 11 feet, eight inches. So, that's how I came up with the 260 something. Can you do the math? How much? How much? How much is it? Um, 22, four inches by, ah, let me do the math here.

Well, he's doing the math. May I say something? Yes. Absolutely. I don't think that we need to look at the total cost, but rather the cost of the building itself. When you are evaluating this, this, where, how much the building it costs. The other parts, the, the add-ons, if you will, the crane, and then so on and so forth. And a lot of the, the things that we did to respond to the Architectural Review Committee, um, I think you would have to look at that separately. But, because we wanted a building that reflected downtown, um, and, and those types of things. So, you know, I think that you could actually look at, at the price per square foot, there's almost even half that, if you take out all the additional costs. The point is, though, that staff is making, is that we did look at building it, you know, bricks and mortar restaurants. I was going to ask you. You couldn't build it for. Right. We could not. It's about $800,000 when we looked at it. Which is, we built a pram shed with nothing in it, but shelves, essentially, for eight, over, over a million.

$600,000.

$600,000. So, um, I think that you have to, there, there's, there's a number of different ways to look at this. But, this type of construction, this type of building, and then putting some, some bling on it, is the best way to deliver the, the restrooms. And, and the most cost effective, as well.

Yeah. And, if I may, I just did a little research and math. Um, typically, ADA for, to incorporate ADA for a new, uh, restroom facility, public restroom facility, adds about 15 to 20% of the cost. So, basically, if you take that, back out the ADA portion of this, you come up with roughly about $920 per square foot, which is significantly less.

And, vice mayor, uh, if I may, the, uh, actual under roof footage is about 407 square foot. Because that, one of the architectural details that are the add-ons is, is a six foot kind of overhang off the frontage. So, it, the footprint of the building is 407. Okay.

Yeah. And that's, yeah, because I was responding to what the actual restroom area was. But you've got overhang, roof overhang, you've got basically the porch area, which is what Tony's speaking to. So, if you look at the overall square footage, that per square foot cost drops. Yeah.

No, I, I'm satisfied. That's okay. Thank you.

It's 407 square foot under, under roof. And, uh, additionally on the features on this is, uh, uh, discussing the, the different things. They're not multi-stall bathrooms. So, the, the delineation between, uh, you know, a men's room and a ladies room, it would be, uh, a little different if it was a multi-stall bathroom like some of the designs have where people are running in the same space and utilizing a public wash area. Uh, this, this also has, uh, uh, uh, drinking fountains as well as bottle filler on the side of the building. So, extra amenities are built in instead of just, uh, a cube. Okay.

Um, so, I'm gonna open it up for public input if there's no other questions right now. Okay. So, anybody in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Name and address for the record?

Hey, Lynn. How long I know.

Sorry, it had to be the last.

Okay. Lynn Olson. I'm 723 Loudon Avenue. And, um, first of all, I want to make a comment. I wish I had done that when I first came up because I've been concerned about what I had read that there wouldn't be a bathroom and I went, oh, no. Um, I, I've got to get to the bottom of that. So, um, two Sundays ago, I emailed Bob Ironsmith and Sunday afternoon, I thought, yeah, he'll get to it maybe Monday, maybe Sunday, I don't know, maybe 20 minutes later, 20 minutes later, on a Sunday afternoon, I got a response. Like, whoa, you know. Um, so, I got to say that right off and I wish I'd said that earlier. Um, anyway, my, my concern is, though, I've done a lot, uh, several, um, co-chair for Pioneer Park with our ukulele group and all. And, just having that, wait a minute, there's no bathroom, what, you know. And, I know that Kim has, you know, you've got to be, you know, um, you know, someone, you know, restaurant, you know, you've got to be in there, you can't use that bathroom, you can't go anywhere. And, when I would do that, I would say, you know where my house is, just go and use my bathroom. You know, it's always open and, you know. And, that's how we would handle, you know, our stars that we were there doing. And, when I heard that there might be a possibility, I just, oh, no, no, no, no. So, I got to the bottom of that and what I heard was that, um, yeah, they're talking about it tonight. And, yes, it will. And, it is so necessary. I just, but, uh, the one thing, if it is a men's and women's, the women's has to have six stalls. Sorry. The men's will have a little, you know, a urinal right there. Right, this big. Right. And, we're done. Okay. Other than that, I think the, um, unisex is fine. All right. Good. Thank you.

Thanks for waiting. You know, it reminded me, too, because I know we've had a lot of dialogue. I mean, this is also going to be a little bit of a performance area. You know, we talked about some different.

Right.

Well, it's a good point. Little activities there. Right. Whether it's, you know, uh, ukulele, or it's poems, or it's reading, or something like that. Right. It also, I think, necessitates a bathroom now.

Okay. Anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Um. Deputy Rene? No? Nothing additional? Okay. Awesome. Um. Okay. Um. So, I need a motion. So moved.

Second.

Okay. So, we'll do final comments, and we'll start with the maker of the motion. Vice Mayor.

You know, we need it. Um. And actually, when you take into account all the aspects of it, it really isn't as horrendously expensive as it appears initially. And, uh, my only, my only comment is, is that, you know, I want to make sure that, you know, we have a solid plan with regards to, to checking the bathrooms, the cleanliness of the bathrooms, all of that, but, uh, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm confident that we are currently addressing that by what Deputy Rene said with regards to the, the, um, bathrooms on the trail there by the museum. So, anyway, I'm, I'm in favor of it, and, uh, that's all I got. Thanks.

Okay. And seconder of the motion, Commissioner Degard.

Uh, I wish to thank staff for indulging us with good answers. We appreciate that. Tony, your expanse on the square footage was most helpful. Um, but I was sitting here seeing myself, you know, paying for a $500 hammer. That's what it felt like. Um, now that I understand, I can make an intelligent vote, and I'm appreciative of that. Thank you.

Okay. I'll go to Commissioner Gow. Thank you, Mayor.

Yes, this $500 hammer is ADA compliant, and you can use it with both your right and your left hand. Um, uh, but let me talk about an activity center. Just keep the grass real is all I ask.

Yeah. Absolutely.

And, and I, and I don't know if this would help, but you, you saw kind of the confusion and concern on the cost and, uh, prefab versus construction. Um, so where it was warranted, just food for thought. Maybe on something like this, part of the presentation should include what it would cost construction-wise. So that might take a lot of our, our concerns away, just up, up front. Um, uh, the conversation of unisex, um, I just think it's the way to go. Uh, certainly, uh, when I was younger and partying a lot more, uh, there were a number of times you'd go to the restrooms and you'd see the men's line going quickly. And it, right, it's against the law to use the wrong restroom, but the men would stop the, in the men's room to allow a line of women to get in just because it was horrendous. Um, so it does, it's absolutely, uh, important on that regard. And also, it just takes any political conversation. It takes, it takes it out of it. It's just use the bathroom. We don't care. Just do it. Um, there's no threat for children or whatever. Um, so, yeah, this is, uh, a wonderful idea. It's a long time coming. Uh, we need more, uh, public restroom center downtown. And this adds, adds to our inventory. Uh, what, the only other suggestion I might make is if, if we can have some sort of, not a phone call because it's not a person, but an email. I mean, if there's any issues throughout the toilet paper, they are, there's something broken that they don't have to wait until Monday morning and call or email. I know I've received an email, too, in the last three months, maybe four months, about concerns on the bathrooms on the trail. And apparently there were issues in the bathroom. And just, no, we're out of toilet paper. Broken facilities of some sort. Um, and so, anyway, so that will allow a more active and quick response to any concerns or problems. But I am in favor of this project. So, thank you, Mayor.

Okay, Commissioner Sandbergen. I have nothing more to add. Um, okay, well, um, first of all, I am very supportive of the new Grand Oak Park bathroom. How's that? Um, I actually think that when we talk about the unisex, we should just make both of the larger places for women and create like a little tiny area for it, especially based on the history. Just give us a tree. But we're fine. Because of the Oak, because of the Oak Park and the history of it, I think just a little area for men.

Don't point men at the tree.

I object.

Is that a friendly amendment or? No. Uh, seriously, I'm, I'm actually, I'm very supportive of it. Uh, yeah, I'm, I'm good with the unisex. And then, of course, we can always adjust, um, if, uh, if it becomes a problem. Um, and you know, I just say, as a woman, if you're not gonna like unisex, it's usually the women who won't. I'm sorry. I'm just saying it right out there. Um, so, um, anyway, I'm supportive. So, all right. So, all right. So, uh, all in favor?

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. It was a good discussion though, Commissioner Sandberg. You, you really dove into that one, didn't you?

Okay.

And thank you, Lynn. Thank you for having your patience and yep. So, okay. And of course, Ellen, you're always patient to the better end. Okay. Um, I'm going to go to proposed agenda for the February.

Hold on.

Let me get to it.

And the ribbon cutting, we need to have toilet paper in it. Yeah.

That's a great idea. I love that. That's a good one. Okay. Wow. Just remember, you started this down this path.

And two ply. None of that cheap stuff. It was a good healthy discussion. All right.

Okay. Uh, proposed agenda for February 5th, 2026 commission meeting. Are there any additions or changes? The city clerk, anything?

Only your Blue Jays proclamation.

Oh, okay. Good. Good, good, good. Good. And then, uh, anything else?

So, ACE will be here on February 5th for the Blue Jays proclamation. No. Yes. Oh. Really? Yes. So, this is February 5th.

February 5th. February 5th. Okay. Good. Good. All right. You know, Commissioner Sandberg, you'll read that proclamation.

I wonder where we could find some.

Um, okay. So, uh, all right. Um, all in favor of the agenda. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to need a motion. Okay. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passed unanimously. Okay. Um, informational items of proposed agenda for February 3rd, 2026 commission workshop. Any additions or changes?

No, ma'am.

Okay. Aye. Everybody good with that? Um, so, all in favor of that. No. We don't have to do that. That's just informational. Okay. Right? Okay.

Sorry. Information. I've got to get used to that. I'm sorry. Yeah. It's probably already been explained. Can somebody help me understand why that is informational as opposed to approving? So, if you- I'm sure you've already told me.

No, no, no. So, if you, the issue was if you approve the workshop agenda and then something comes up and you want to add to that workshop agenda. You can't take a vote in the workshop to add it to the agenda. Whereas, in a regular meeting, you can take action. So, you can always add something to the agenda like you've done this evening. Okay.

So, adding to an agenda is taking action.

You, you do the start item and you do a motion ahead of time and everything. With the workshop, there's no vote that's going to happen. So, it's just given to you for informational items. If there's something else that comes up, the city manager can always add it to it. Or the commission there at the meeting could-

So, workshop agendas don't need to be approved? No.

They're there for your, just to give you a heads up for what's coming up.

Yes. Right, right. But they don't need action at all. Right.

Okay. And we actually changed the commission rules to address this as well.

Right. Yes. Right.

I think it just gives flexibility. Okay. Commission discussion and comments. I'll start with the Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Mayor. So, a couple things. First of all, I think the House Transportation Infrastructure Appropriation got approved today. And why is that significant? Because there are several items in PSTA that are going to get funded with that. But the most interest to Dunedin, there's still an $828,000 earmark in there for this pier. And Jennifer, I, you know, we probably, we need to talk about this because there are some specific conditions with that. And I don't know that they're trivial. I think we really need to think through this. And probably the best thing to do is get a meeting with Brad and just discuss this. And I'll tell you what. So, here's the thing. So, PSTA receives that earmark. They have to exercise control and ownership over it. And essentially, what that means is, is that they will have to, you know, there will be some element of the pier that they will have a vested interest in. It's a fairy duck.

Yeah. The portion of the pier. Yeah.

And they, this is, this has been done before, but it was done with a trolley or that tram on the St. Pete Pier. Mm-hm. And basically, the, the arrangement, I think, was something like, the, the tram, you know, the PSTA owns it and St. Petersburg leases it for a dollar a year or something like that. Mm-hm. And I, I think Jennifer Cowan, I think you, you've been talking to Brad about this. Have you?

He just brought it up to me. Did he? Okay. And he was going to be a condition and we were going to need to figure out how the structure needed to happen.

Okay. Yeah. I just, I just wanted that to make sure we bubbled that up. Um, second thing was, uh, actually. Oh, you leave that though.

What does that mean? They'd have to have ownership? Is that what we're saying?

They, there has to.

You'd have to give them ownership?

It's, and I don't know the legal terms, exercise, control and ownership is the words.

It would be temporary. Of the.

Right. Just of the improvement. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for that clarification. But, um, actually the, but the, the, the funnest thing about, uh, the, uh, what meeting was it? It was the planning meeting. Thanks for the heads up on that. It, uh, it collaborative agreement between the city and PSTA is resulting in two bus shelters on Skinner. And, uh, you know, I think, uh, I, I kind of look at it. I, you know, when you, they were showing the renderings and the positioning and the fact that this will drive up, um, I, I think it's going to drive up ridership and it's because they're going to be easier to get to than this bus stops currently. Um, or, I mean, before the improvements. So, uh, anyway, uh, just wanted to bring that up because it really was, what the agreement was is the city and PSTA split the cost of the shelter. And, uh, you know, I, I thought that was pretty cool. So anyway, that's my update.

Commissioner Sandberg and I wasn't in my mic on, sorry.

Um, you know, I did, I think it was a, it was a nice, uh, function for the MLK celebration. Um, I know we got a big trip coming up next week to, uh, represent the city of Dunedin. And, uh, I think we did all right last year and I think we'll do much better this year, just out of preparedness. And, uh, I think that's, that's all I have for right now.

Good. Um, Commissioner Gao.

Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I want to give a shout out to our vice mayor. I watched the planning meeting PSTA and it's wonderful how Rob represents the city of Dunedin consistently, uh, refers to Dunedin as the great city of Dunedin. And you can now hear other PSTA board members refer to Dunedin as the great city of Dunedin. And it is just, it is really, it really feels good. It is so wonderful to have somebody who doesn't live here and say, yes, I visited the great city of Dunedin Dunedin and stayed at the Fenway and just, that was, it was just wonderful. So thank you. Thank you, Rob.

I know, I know.

And, and I just, I love, and I, and I love Max, Max is such a good guy. Um, uh, it is, uh, Holly game season, marching band season is over. And, uh, if you're not a piper or drummer, it's concert band season. Uh, but for our pipers and drummers, um, uh, it started last Saturday with our Central Florida Holly games where hardware was one and a good time is had by all. And so I look forward to some upcoming Holly games and certainly ours coming up in April. Uh, but that is all that I have to report. Thank you.

Okay. Commissioner Ducard.

Thank you, mayor. I too participated in the Martin Luther King celebration over the weekend. And there was a face in the crowd that, uh, struck me. And that was our principal, um, quiet, present, connecting to our students. We have an asset in the principal.

High school one. Yes. He was here tonight as well. And he was here tonight.

He was everywhere. He follows his students around. Yes. He invests his time in the future of this community by the education process he presents. And I thought that should get some recognition. Um, there was also a tragic event this weekend where a kayaker lost his life out on the sound, nearly lost the life of another person he was with. Um, safety is something that has to be practiced all the time. This person went out on the sound when the waves were three, four, maybe even five feet high at times in a kayak. Um, our heart goes out to the family, but I'm going to just put one cautionary tale out to those who are doing boating in the sound. Don't go out there in a storm. It just isn't the safest thing to do. Um, by the way, our sheriff officers are doing a magnificent job. It's good to see you here tonight. I feel safe being here. Thank you for that mayor. That's all I have.

Great.

Thank you.

And thanks for bringing that up. Um, yeah, I'll just file on Mr. Kiplinger, principal of Dennean high school. He is at everything. Honestly, he is amazing. He is a great representative, a great leader, and, and the kids love him too. You ask them about him. I mean, they love him. So, um, good, good shout out. And the event was a great shout out. And of course, Reverend Bell is always great and he leads the charge and, and it's, uh, it's great. Um, Jennifer, I was just, I'm putting you on the spot and I apologize. Um, the Toronto Blue Jays welcome back plans. Can you just bring everybody up to stuff? Sure. Absolutely. Appropriate, um, about what's, what we're doing.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, obviously it's a very important year. It's the fiftieth season, uh, of the Toronto Blue Jays, of Toronto Blue Jays as a team and, um, being in Dunedin. So we've had several meetings. Um, we've, we've, uh, had meetings with the Chamber of Commerce with, uh, Visit St. Pete Clearwater. Obviously city staff is there. We have communications. We have Jory Peterson, our, uh, and, and Danielle, um, our special events folks. So some of the things that, that we're planning to do, the golf cart parade is of course on for the welcome back on the 21st. It's always on, right? Um. The 14th. The 14th.

Right. Opening day is the 21st. Yeah.

Right. Right. Exactly. On the 14th and everybody go on the 14th. Um, and then our, and then our event as well. Our, our welcome back Blue Jays, um, event. Uh, we're working, um, the Blue Jays this year have a, have a new logo or a special logo for the 50th season and they have, they have the logo, they designed it for Toronto. Uh, but for Dunedin for spring training, they have 50 years, 50 seasons in Dunedin, which is really kind of cool. So we get our very own, um, logo. So we'll be, um, we'll be doing the golf cart parade. We are, are going to be doing, um, the, um, eh, the proclamation then on the 5th. And the reason why we're doing the proclamation on the 5th of February is, uh, because the pitchers and catchers come back and we want to give it a good long run, uh, moving forward. Uh, Chamber of Commerce is meeting tomorrow with our communications people and, uh, visit St. Pete Clearwater to, to discuss the, uh, marketing plan, if you will, uh, to ensure that, that we have, uh, um, all of the, um, uh, commercial businesses, vendors, retailers, restaurants have the welcome, you know, the 50th season in their windows, a poster. Um, and, and, you know, it's, it, it's interesting because, uh, we really, we're going to do an event and we're going to do, um, uh, Dunedin Goes Blue.

Dunedin Goes Blue.

Right, which is very much like paint the town purple for Alzheimer's. But we'll, we'll try to go as blue as we can in, in all of their storefronts and, and so on and so forth. Uh, we'll have special banners on the streets which the Blue Jays have actually, uh, printed themselves and, and they're ready to go. Um, we're looking at, um, we did want to, we asked for the American, uh, League trophy to, uh, make its way down to Dunedin and it cannot come. Yeah, it's got to stay in Toronto. But, um, so we'll, we'll get our own trophy and use that, right? Um, so Mayor, what else was there? You were in a few of those meetings.

I mean, I think that, you know, the Dunedin Goes Blue piece and that, that's only going to be as good as everybody would get to be part of it. All the businesses, all the signage, you know. I was saying, I remember during Centennial, like, you know, every kind of individualized sign that people had, they, they, you know, Welcome Back Blue Jays, they did that. But then a lot of the banners, I've seen a lot of people already have their Welcome Back Blue Jay banners up. But again, it's only going to, Dunedin's only going to go blue if everybody just piles on. Right. And, um.

Exactly.

And, and having the chamber help, I think that's, that's awesome. And, uh.

Tony, a couple more things. Tony Mulkey is working with Paul Cozzi at the county to get some sort of, uh, markers on the trail as well. Um, we were, because, you know, from, from the ferry, which to, to the stadium, I mean, that there's a lot of Phillies fans coming in that way, or fans from Clearwater who are. Yeah. Um, and so we want to put something along the trail, either, you know, commemorating the, the all-star players or, you know, whatever we're going to do. But he's still working on that. Uh, we're still looking at the mural, whether or not we want to do a mural on a, on a vinyl on the 50th season and put that on Hale Center or, you know, somewhere in the stadium. But, uh, we're working really closely with the Blue Jays. Obviously, they're very, uh, protective of their branding. And, um, and we're making sure that they are on, on our, our Welcome Back Blue Jays train, for sure.

So, the other thing I'd add to that, one of my long-term visions, and it got brought up five years ago, but, you know, competing interests as they are. I just know, um, it would mean a lot to Blue Jays' leadership. Um, you know, if you don't know this already, I want to make sure you know, because to, in our, whatever, however we end up doing our, you know, newer entranceway signs as we come in. You know, having something prominent, that we are home of Toronto Blue Jays. And, um, it's been, got, got brought up to me, and never got re-brought up to me, by leadership, about how much that would mean. It seems like every other community that has a spring training team does that. And I know that we, you know, it gets competitive with our piping band. And, but it seems like we're a smart community, we can figure that out. And, uh, um, but anyway, that's kind of my...

You know, you started talking about the, the banners. I, I'm not sure, I just got that from the Blue Jays yesterday. So, I'm not sure these, I'm not sure how that didn't get shared. I saw the, the email had, there was no commissioners on that. And they sent it to me, because they asked me what I thought of it. Right. So, I, I'm not sure why these, why everybody didn't get to see that. It's pretty, pretty powerful to the city. I saw it, I saw it.

I saw it.

I saw you were on that. Yeah, but, um. Yeah.

Sure. It was on Facebook already though. Somebody already posted on Facebook. So, it's kind of getting out there. Right.

I, you know, I, I received it. It was a working document about, you know, the banners that we're going to put up. And it, honestly, it didn't occur to me to share it with the commission. It's a, you know. Yeah. It's something that, it's an ongoing project. So, I apologize for that. And we, we'll send it out to you. Oh, it's okay.

Cause I, I mean, it's unfair that I saw it now. And the mayor's had it. So, I think we should have it. Right. Right.

Yeah, we're not trying to hide anything from you guys. If you feel offended.

I'm just, I'm just a former vice mayor.

I love it. Um, uh, my.

We are, um. I'm sorry. Mayor, we're going to put the Let's Go Blue Jays back up there. I'd like to have it up there for the proclamation actually on the 5th. You mean the one that we had on there?

The big banner. Yeah, the big banner up there. Are you going to put one in the front too?

Um, yeah. Yeah, we have it for the front and the back. And, but, but I know the Blue Jays.

It would be good to get one of them being with the new logo. And I know that's time. Sooner we get them ordered the. Yeah.

Yeah.

We should have the logo.

Yeah. I think we can just put the logo actually on that sign. Let's Go Blue Jays. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

We'll look into that. Okay. Um, anyway, my other comments were, um, I got invited yesterday. Um, and it was a relatively small group of people to talk about the school board strategic long-term plan. And, um, and, uh, and I, I have to say, uh, Kevin, the superintendent of schools would let it. And three of the, three of the school board members were there. It was, uh, it was actually, um, and I actually called Jeff just to make sure I wasn't missing anything from his point of view. And it was more far reaching. It wasn't just one issue. It was a lot of issues, but I mean, it was just interesting. I mean, we're, our schools are doing great. I mean, we're, they're all A and B schools. And, um, when you look at us compared to a lot of counties, uh, we're, we're just doing great. He showed all the, uh, um, the charts, uh, with comparatives for, I think there was about eight counties on there and we led the charge with getting kids back to pre COVID, uh, learning and, and, and levels, um, and such an important factor. So they didn't lose ground. So, uh, so the stats are, are great in terms of what they're doing and, and how they're leading it. Of course, you know, obviously within that was also, um, the discussion of the, the, uh, the declining, um, births in Pinellas, but also in the United States and, you know, internationally, um, people were having less babies and he used the comparison, think how many siblings you have and then think how many kids you have. And there you go. There was a lot more siblings back in the day, but anyway, um, and he did, and they certainly don't see it changing. I mean, it's a, it seems to be a trend that's here to be here for a long time. So they're dealing with that. And I think probably most of you saw their first round of kind of mergers and changes that they just put out. And, um, that afternoon, um, city manager and I were invited to meet with the superintendent who talked a little bit about that. And I know the city manager will fill you in on the details of that meeting. Um, but, um, anyway, so it was great. I mean, I feel like right now, like, uh, the whole partnership with the schools is great. And, and, and the strategic planning, when communication got brought up, I said, well, you know, I think the need and goes out of their way, but the chamber does, we have a commission liaison and Jeff who does, who does everything. And, um, and then we have Phyllis who, you know, and who gets the principals together. So I think, um, you know, the onus is both ways on that. And, and, uh, we do a great job of making sure that happens as well. So that was one update and you already brought up Tallahassee. So I won't go into that. So that's it. So, uh, city clerk update. Nothing new to report, ma'am.

Okay.

City manager update. I do have, um, uh, an update, uh, on the historic preservation ordinance. Um, so, and I wanted to, to, to put this in front of you on the day. So obviously this is, this is city manager's update. There is no action. We're not of course asking you to take any action whatsoever. Um, uh, so, and I'm going to kind of take a step back and, and talk about what's happened in the past, because I think that, you know, to, to start from exactly where we are right now, we're going to lose something here. So, um, the, uh, the, the ordinance, September 12th of 2024, uh, the H-PAC recommended approval of the draft, uh, historic preservation ordinance and, and, uh, that we proceed with adoption. Then we put that before the city commission, uh, for consensus direction in March of 2025. They went to the local planning agency in, uh, July 9th of 2025, and they voted five to one to recommend approval for the proposed ordinance, uh, and resolution with a condition that the language that permits a city manager to initiate a historic preservation, historic district application, um, be deleted, eliminated from the ordinance. Um, and they also, at that point, um, the H-PAC and the LPA agreed that they would prefer to have 100% property owner approval when a district is created. And so, uh, as I said, the H-PAC and the LPA, um, agreed that that was the way that they wanted to, to go and to make recommendations to the city commission. Um, on August 7th of 2025, the city commission approved, uh, uh, first reading four to one with the condition that we added language. You may recall this, uh, that, that vice mayor at the time, Gow, uh, had recommended, uh, if the city manager initiates a historic preservation district application, then we would need to call a public meeting of the city commission and I would need to advise you of, of the intent to, to, um, to initiate that, that application, but it passed four to one, uh, on first reading and it passed on first reading with the 100%, um, property owner notice, uh, owner consent, right. To the historic district and with the city manager initiated district as well. Uh, after that, we discovered that we needed to transmit it to the state. We did not understand. We did not know that we needed to, we should have known. Um, but we, we rectified that and we sent it to the state. Um, on August 27th, um, of 2025, um, given that we had just sent it to the state for their comments and we had not received them back yet. Um, on September 24th, the city commission voted to postpone the second reading of the ordinance to October 9th, thinking that we would be able to get those comments, uh, within that period of time. Um, the, uh, the, um, historic, uh, resources division of the state, uh, state historic resources division wanted to send it to the federal government, obviously for the national park service for their comments, which they did. Um, and then we know that the government closed down very shortly thereafter. And I know that those employees were furloughed, um, and they were sent home. And so on October 9th of 2025, the city commission voted at second reading to, um, to table the, the, uh, ordinance until we could clear up some of these ambiguities, if you will, um, at, at the state and national level. Uh, we followed up with them December 1st. We hadn't heard anything. And then on January 12th, uh, staff received a response from the state historic resources division, uh, which forwarded to us essentially an email from the national park service regarding the amendments to the proposed ordinance. So the issue is that, um, the national park service, um, and subsequently the state historic, uh, um, resources division will not support, um, a provision of that 100% of the property owners within the district have to approve or consent, uh, to the application. Um, the national park service then, and subsequently the state, uh, um, division recommends a 50% plus one, not even 51%, 50% plus one. They also would not support the city manager initiating the historic, uh, district because only the city commission is qualified in their eyes to do so. And in fact, we agree because that's the way the ordinance is written. So, um, we are currently drafting, uh, amendments to our ordinance. Um, we are going to recommend to the city commission that we delete or eliminate the, the, the provision to, um, initiate and adopt a historic district from the ordinance itself. Um, staff's recommendation is predicated upon the fact that this was really negotiated through the HPAT, historic preservation advisory committee, through the LPA to the city commission at first reading and was accepted by those, those three entities in, in, in our minds. Um, for us to, um, to essentially repeal what is community input and consent of the community, something that they really wanted to see and make a recommendation to you that we go back to 50% plus one, um, is not something that, that, that, that I think would do, is in the best public interest of, of, um, your constituents or the city. Um, it was your public input. It was the community's, uh, input to, to the LPA and the city commission. And so, um, we're recommending that we, that we de eliminate the historic provision for a historic preservation from the ordinance itself. And if we're doing that, then we would obviously eliminate the city manager initiated, uh, provision as well from, from the ordinance. Uh, that leaves us then with some, uh, some cleanup on the, on the certificate of appropriateness. Uh, and it leaves us, um, with, with really returning the ordinance to the, really the adopted 2019 ordinance, um, to, you know, to a greater or lesser extent. There are some changes that we had to make that reflect, um, the comments. Except for streamlines. Hmm?

Except for the streamlining.

Right. The streamlining, right. The certificate of appropriateness, it would, we need to change that so that you don't have to come to the commission if you change out your windows. Um, and anything else?

Yeah, there was just clarification on the notice to make sure that the notices fall in line. There's no question on it. There's no question on it. They fall in line and they're carried out throughout the code because you have a chart that has all your notices, but the HPAC notices weren't included. So just doing little things like that that make it match up, um, but aren't substantive changes. Right.

So, so, um, they also advised us that we could move forward and adopt the ordinance. You could adopt the ordinance as it's drafted, um, regardless of their comments, but they would, uh, decertify us at the federal level, at the national level. And so, uh, obviously the state level as well. So we're a certified local government. Uh, we, we have been issued grants against, there's a, there's got, there's a lot of guidelines, there's guidance as well that were provided by the, by the federal government and the state government as far as historic preservation goes. So it is a value to us and it's not a way that I would recommend that we go. Uh, first of all, uh, you know, given the community input and second of all, we need to remain a certified local government. So, um, we are staff is working on, first of all, a reply to that, to the federal, um, the email from the federal government, the national park service. Uh, and I know that Jennifer has been working with staff to that end. Um, it's a comprehensive reply and it's, it's, we have a path forward. We have a very clear path forward now. Um, we feel it's more or less to put on the record, uh, some of the inaccuracies that we felt were inherent within, um, the, the email from the federal government. Um, and put those on the record because I don't quite honestly feel that we were, we were treated very fairly. Um, in terms of, um, there are, there are many, many, many, uh, certified local governments that require 100% property owner approval of districts. So, uh, we certainly wouldn't be the first one. We're not going to name them because we would, we don't want them to be, uh, decertified, but we did do our homework. So I want to reply to that. I want to rebut that. So moving forward, um, we're going to transmit the updated ordinance and get the funding. the final response from the state historic resources division and the national park service. Uh, we'll do that by the end of January. Uh, they have 30 days. So the, the, the state government does. So we're relatively confident that we'll get everything back by the beginning of March. Um, we need to re-notice everything, um, for first and second reading before the city commission. And so we will re-notice for March 19th, tentatively, tentatively, assuming everything goes, goes according to plan. And then second reading in April, uh, and both of those readings will be, um, advertised.

If I, if I can, um, I know it's, it, it, it, it is important because I'm starting to get contacted again. You know, we just need to get it right. We need to listen to what the, the citizens and the people want. Let's not make it divisive. Let's not make it combative, you know, but so you're, so if someone is listening tonight in the public, we're looking at March when that would come before us. And so that's a full two months, but, uh, you know, it's, we just need to make sure that we listen to the power of the people and, and get this right. Cause there's two months already. And there's been people reached out to me and, you know, it's.

Well, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring it up tonight on the dais. Okay. This is really the best way to communicate to the public what we're going to do moving forward. Okay.

Good. So just to paraphrase and the simplistic, my simplistic view of the world here, removing district or historic designation of districts, maintaining a updated certificate of appropriateness that streamlines the approval and basically pushes the approval down to a little bit of a lower level. And then the other one is still allows us to designate historic landmarks. Correct. Okay. All right. That's, I think, uh, I, I don't know how it gets more clear than that. Um, so anyway, I appreciate all the work that went into it. Yeah.

And just again, to pile on going back to the way it was, except for the streamlining issues. That's pretty much it, right? Yeah.

And with the certificate of, I'm sorry, with the certificate of appropriateness, they will, um, H-PAC will also still no longer be advisory. Right. Yeah.

Okay, good. Um, anybody else? Any good? Any other?

Oh, sorry. Sorry. They will no longer, they'll be a committee. They will be no longer an advisory committee. Yes.

Meaning that they will, because of, they will have authority, not to designate, but for the certificate of appropriateness to approve those without it having to come to commission.

Does that affect sunshine issues between us and- No.

Okay. Any other items?

So, um, the, the grant that, uh, that Sue Barlett had mentioned, $550,000. Um, uh, so it's actually very interesting because it's part of a class action suit from the emissions, uh, for VW, as you recall, that they were inaccurate on their emission readings. So, it's a reimbursement grant, but well done to, um, uh, Camille Zoller and, and, uh, Nicole Delfino and, and, and company for getting that grant. It's, it's a huge, huge help for us. Uh, and then the city manager's update report, uh, for the month of January. That's just about everything you need to know about operations all in one quick update. Perfect.

I love it.

I, I, I really like it a lot.

We've also streamlined that. Made it a lot.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. Streamlining. Anybody have any questions for the city manager? Okay. Um, so city attorney update.

Uh, there's no update.

What's that? There's no update. Okay. Okay. Um, okay. Then if anybody, anything else for the good of the order? Meeting is adjourned.

No.

The other Jennifer.