CITY COMMISSION WORK SESSION - Feb 18, 2025

to call the meeting to order. Welcome to the February 18, 2025 City Commission Work Session. And we're going to start our meeting with Pledge of Allegiance by Jen, our city attorney. Okay, we have a couple of proclamations today. And the first one is the Peace Poll Proclamation, and I'm going to turn that over to Commissioner Walker. Can I have all the Rotarians in the audience come on up to the podium? So welcome. One of the greatest positions that I fill is as a Rotarian, and I'm very proud to read this proclamation. Our mantra, service above self, doing good, and having fun. And I would have brought my rotary pin, but I panicked this morning, could not find it, so I'm wearing my polio plus pin. So, here we go. Peace Day in Dunedin, 2025. Whereas the Peace Poll Project, initiated in 1955 by Japanese teacher, poet, and philosopher Masahisa Goy, in the aftermath of World War II, has become a global symbol of peace. Whereas the profound message, May Peace Prevail on Earth, which arose from a moment of inspiration for Goy, continues to resonate and inspire individuals across the world. Whereas the Peace Poll found its way to the United States in 1986 during the year of international peace, marking a significant milestone in the global pursuit of harmony. Whereas Rotary International, with a steadfast commitment to promoting peace and goodwill throughout the world, recognizes the importance of fostering understanding and unity among diverse communities. Rotary International has designated the week of the anniversary of Rotary's founding on February 23rd, 1905, to be known as World Understanding and Peace Week. Whereas Rotary Clubs around the world will celebrate Rotary service, reflect upon past achievements, and focus on programs of peace, understanding, and goodwill. Whereas Dunedin's three Rotary Clubs, the Rotary Clubs of Dunedin, Dunedin, Dunedin North, and Dunedin Waterside, in alignment with the ideals of Rotary International, have collectively embraced the vision of a more peaceful world. Now therefore I, Robert James Walker, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, Florida, and on behalf of the entire City Commission, do hereby proclaim February 23rd this year, and every year, as Peace Day in Dunedin. And to commend the Rotary Clubs of Dunedin, Dunedin North, and Dunedin Waterside for their collaborative efforts that planted a peace pole at the Dunedin Community Center in Highlander Park, and their continued focus on peace, understanding, and goodwill. Let this proclamation serve as a reminder to all residents to reflect upon the universal values of peace, goodwill, and understanding, and to strive towards creating a more harmonious and compassionate community. Thank you very much. We would like to invite all of you to the big event tomorrow night, six o'clock, at the Community Center. And we have 33 now charitable organizations coming. We're very excited for them to show and highlight what they do for our community and for us as attendings to be able to see what they do and give them our support. So see you tomorrow night, six o'clock, Community Center. The peace pole event is on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Walker. That was great. Okay, our next presentation is going to be Government Communications Day, and I'm going to turn that proclamation over to Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. Whereas, well, let's do this right. All the communication professionals, please come forward. That's the way we should do this. And anybody that thinks they're a communication professional can also come forward. There's a lot of those on Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. Let's not call them forward. Let's not open that bag of worms. I don't want to go there. Let's see if we can recompose here. Um, whereas the role of government communication professionals is to inform, educate, and engage their communities. And whereas robust communication and government creates trust and inspires residents to take action and be involved. And whereas government communications create relationships and calls to action. Build awareness and understanding through storytelling. Engage and foster engagement on civic issues and use all channels to include people in critical decisions. And whereas the role of government communications is an essential part of emergency management, especially during tropical storms and hurricanes as experienced in 2024, the role of government communications begins before the storm, during the storm, and long after the storm has passed. Whereas it is essential to have strong communications in government because it is a foundational element of living in a democracy where citizens have the freedom to make their voice heard. And whereas the city of Dunedin is proud and has deep gratitude and recognition for government communicators, professionalism, dedication, hard work, commitment, enthusiasm, and sacrifice. Now I, Tom Dugard, by the virtue of the authority invested in me through the mayor of the city of Dunedin, Florida, and on behalf of the entire city commission, do hereby proclaim February 21st, 2025 as Government Communications Day in Dunedin, Florida. It underscores the vital role of communications department whose dedicated efforts uphold effective communication strategies and crisis communications essential for the city of Dunedin. Thank you. Thank you. Now who's going to take the picture? Well, first I have a few words. Thank you, mayor and commissioners for this proclamation, recognizing the important role of government communications and the value that it brings to our community. My small but mighty team and very talented team are the architects behind our public information education campaigns, our social media strategy, our responses to social media, which is monitored seven days a week, and the creativity behind the content, videos, and messaging. We inform, we educate, we engage, and we also try to entertain. Just because we're government doesn't mean we have to be boring. But there is no better example of the importance of critical role of government communications than during the crisis events and emergency response situations. The storms of 2024, Debbie, Helene, and Milton proved how critical public information is to our community. It is vital before the storm, as the proclamation said, before, during, and after. And in 2024, the post-storm communications lasted four months. This was our Super Bowl. We were not just getting information out to our publics, we were saving lives, lives using social media as a, as a outreach tool, but also as a critical social listening and response tool. Today, people use social media like a call center. And according to data from our digital analytics, our response time during the storms to critical queries was between 15 and 30 minutes. Our community sentiment measured by comments was 87% positive and supportive. We gained more than 4,000 new followers on Facebook, and we produced a digital e-news hurricane update every day from September 24th through mid-October. Through these efforts, we gained more than 1,000 new Dunedin News subscribers. And as you've heard me say many times in the past, that is the number one way we want, we would like our We would like our residents to stay informed because it is delivered to them. They don't have to go to social media to get their news. And often the misinformation that is out there, excuse me, on those platforms. Our city of Dunedin crisis communications response during Tropical Storm Debbie, Hurricanes, Helene, Milton, demonstrated professionalism, effectiveness, and strong community engagement. We are really proud of these efforts. It was hard. But we knew as public servants, it was the right thing to do, and it was a valuable thing to do. And I think we all recognize the role that that played. We know we made a difference and the growth engagement of our platforms will only strengthen our reach. for the future. Thank you. And I want to thank especially Brooke, because she was here with me during that time. Kate, as you know, joined our team recently and already doing amazing things together. So thank you. Thank you for your support always. Pictures, right? Can I come down now? Oh, the pictures, yes. Yes, one best. You can be right in the middle, Sue, because you're not going to block anybody. I'm sorry. already doing amazing things together so thank you thank you for your support always pictures right so while commissioner guards taking a seat i'm just going to say you know i've been out around the track and a lot of have venues with this city for over 35 years and this communication group is amazing and i always say infrastructure first infrastructure first but i'll tell you what if you don't have good communication you know you just can't you can't survive it's so important to have that communication tool with our 37 000 residents so i thank that the team you guys are amazing and you are small and mighty so thank you okay we are going to go to citizen input so this would be the time if anyone wishes to speak to the commission on a topic that is not on the agenda this would be the time to come forward is there anyone that would like to do that okay seeing no rush to the podium i'm going to close citizen input and we'll move to consent agenda so today we've got approval of minutes for 12 17 12 19 17 19 we have board and committee appointments for hammock advisory committee and library advisory committee we have flanagan's irish pub st patrick's day celebration revocable license agreement we have downtown dunedan merchants association 2025 mardi gras celebration revocable license agreement we have award of general engineering consultant service authorization tasks to jones edmunds and associates inc of tampa florida in the amount of eighty eight thousand five hundred dollars for the north douglas avenue flooding alternative design permitting and post design services we have approval to award contract for playground resurfacing surfaces at edgewater park and weaver park provided by lanyard plans inc doing business as core cat of carol carolton georgia for a total amount of 227 000 737.05 due to damages sustained by hurricane saline and milton and then we have memorandum of understanding between the florida division of emergency management and the city of denean for post milton debris hauling assistance so first of all do i have anything that anyone would like to pull 2c and 2f okay 2c and 2f by commissioner sandbergen okay and anyone else wish to pull anything 2e okay 2e okay well that's you already pulled that right so oh he did i'm sorry yeah you because you said 2e as well right oh no i said 2c and 2f oh okay sorry my apologies okay okay so 2e by commissioner walker 2f by commissioner okay any other things we wish to pull okay so everything but uh 2c 2e 2f could i have a motion to approve so moved second okay motion okay second and is there any public input at all on the consenting items that we're going to approve not the ones that are pulled and yours is pulled janet okay um okay um so uh all in favor aye any opposed okay motion passes unanimously and so now we'll go to first 2c flangins irish pub st patrick's day celebration revocable license agreement um and commissioner sandbergen was there a specific question or whatever it was a question and just some clarification uh i received the answer yesterday but i'm still a little concerned as to thank you i know that both uh the merchants and flanagan's do a lot for this community but i have to say i'm a little um knocked off my game by the difference in what it's costing them i understand one is due to a non-profit status and the other one is for profit but maybe going forward we should look at our pricing i mean 150 versus the guy down the street paying 3 000 i know it's something we've had in the past but i'm just a little uncomfortable a little unsettled with that were you looking for a response i wanted to make a comment but if you have a response yes well as you you mentioned and i think it was pointed out yesterday uh when we did get our fees back in 2013 uh we we had we were trying to support all the businesses but or non-profits uh we're we're really um have a lesser a lesser fee basically because of what they do for uh the community in general now i know flanagan's also does a lot for the for the businesses all the businesses do do well on on that evening but we've separated non-profit from profit as far as our fee structure goes if i may add mayor yes you may thank you um so the fee proposal is is designed to uh ensure full cost recovery for a for-profit event we haven't amended those fees since 2013 so we're actually under market as far as those fees go um we'd like to actually do an analysis and move forward with with um increasing those fees in the future and that would actually be a ministerial uh function but at this point it's designed to ensure that we our costs are covered yeah and also besides the the um 150 for the non-profits they are paying for every man hour that's work to set up and and tear down and clean up the event so their bill comes out to close it to like 10 000 i wasn't aware of that yeah thank you um yeah just give me a minute is any other questions for you not on that or anybody else have a question in this um sure come ahead if you want to my name is jason sybert owner of flanagan's irish pub my address is 1756 ranchwood drive south dunedin florida um there's a crisis right now in the city these these festivals are going away if the fees are not covered by the city it's happening right now the ddma is talking about dissolving over this in the last few years they've lost over a hundred thousand dollars between their two festivals my festival's profit has been cut by three quarters they are going away if the city doesn't do anything about it and the amount of money we spend on the blue jays love the blue jays is fantastic but if you want to talk about dollars for donuts the the economic impact of these festivals to the downtown core is absolutely essential for us to continue to do business in downtown so um you will be seeing a whole lot of people coming in here and talking about this over the next few weeks and uh but i wanted to say that to your point i understand that but my fees between the city and the sheriff for st patrick's day are between 15 and 20 000 a year i take the entire cost of the festival i make sure everyone benefits talk to any business owner in town i go door to door and make sure what can i do for everyone the economic impact of these festivals is absolutely enormous so i just wanted to say that and there will be a lot more people coming up to talk about that in the next few weeks but um for profit or non-profit if you ever respond you know this is a 30 plus year old festival um the other thing that could be done here is to allow liquor to be sold at the festivals we're the last municipality in the county in the tri-county area that doesn't allow liquor at their festivals there's a huge difference in cost of goods sold between liquor and beer and i know everyone is afraid of liquor but look at my track record i've had i've had flanagan's nine years of those about seven years i've been able to do a festival i've got no arrests at flanagan at st patty's day we're responsible vendors and uh and i understand fear i've got fear too and i also know how people act on alcohol i'm pretty good at uh at knowing that so anyways uh there will be more people coming but this is a real issue and it has been an issue for a long time thank you okay thank you anyone else wish to come forward to speak to this issue okay um vince did you want to add anything yes mayor um i just want to make a clarification i just checked with jory the fees for mardi gras this year approximately eighteen thousand dollars plus the sheriff cost is separate and that's probably about another ten thousand so there is significant expenses uh whether it's profit or or non-profit the only difference is there's a difference in the license fee i understand i'm very pro small business and i just want to make sure that the playing field is as leveled as we can make it for for both sides thanks right and i you know and i obviously jason i respect what you're saying but there is a lot of issues going on with ddma that are beyond the scope of what this issue is but obviously you know this commission is always open to discuss but you know we've got to weigh you know these special events against the citizens overall and the taxpayer but appreciate it and obviously open to discuss so um okay um so if no other discussion on that i would take a motion to approve the flanagan's irish pub st patrick's day celebration revocable license agreement can i make a comment real quick sure go ahead yeah yeah i i just want to say i you know you start taking a look at uh you know the things that make this city great and the events that we put on are amazing and there is absolutely no question about their impact to our businesses um and uh i you know i i think i think there would be benefit to to look at how we're doing this going forward um i mean you know i can see i'm a small business owner um and uh you know margins important especially when you're talking about you know all of your revenue raising for the most part happens in seasons so um anyway i'm just i'd like to just get that on a agenda at some point to discuss thank you okay well everybody else's comment any your commissioner de guard or commissioner gau any comments good i i do see that we have some challenges here with our events and i think that jason's remarks are something of a cautionary tale for us as we look at costs and i think we should examine ways to offset these costs maybe a little differently and i would like to propose and this is not has very little to do with the motion other than the license agreement is uh i'm in support of but uh i think that we're going to have to sit back and look at this over the long term um and i'm going to assume city manager if we're going to talk about that the most appropriate time would be during the budget when we look at all the all these things that we're facing yes absolutely okay great thank you okay again may have and i may have a motion uh on 2c flanagan's iris pub so move okay mr gau second mr sandbergen all in favor all right aye and uh any opposed motion passes unanimously okay uh i'm going to go to 2d downtown dunny merchant association 2025 mardi gras celebration revocable license agreement uh that was not pulled mayor never mind good we don't want to talk about that right that must have been okay let's go to 2e uh award of general engineering consultant service authorization task jones edmund and associates in the amount of 88 000 for the north douglas avenue flooding alternative design permitting and post design services and that was pulled commissioner walker did you want a full presentation or just questions no i no full presentation uh i do want to just kind of we've gotten uh you know you obviously had numerous discussions about this and you know um if you could just really give a quick summary of what the scope of this agreement entails so i get so for what they'll be so the scope of the excuse me um good morning mayor vice mayor commissioners clay watkins city engineer um so generally speaking what we're looking at is this will be their design and permitting and post construction design um so what the proposed sort of i guess fix is the best way you can say um the as they did the analysis we ran previously they we gave jones edmunds a task order to do the analysis this one determined basically what we're going to do is we're going to use the tide valves which is similar what we used in the baywood neighborhood those will go in the the northern fork uh curb inlet catch basins those will sit there in the 18-inch pipes and then in addition as you go to the northern intersection as sort of san mateo and north douglas sort of loop around on each other and the exit out of the park uh basically the northern the exit from the park will sort of rise and and create a a berm area that will restrict the tidal flow to the mean sort of mean high tide is where we're looking at trying to control just the tide it will not if it's a king tide or any storm events it won't control that it'll help just keep the salt water out of the the street during regular tide events and um i seem to remember that i mean this is going to be looking at other um other solutions as well right other than the check valves so we previously they've previously did other solutions i think there was approximately well they started with like seven or eight and ended up to four and then this was the solution that they determined to be the the most cost-effective and efficient for the city so it's just focused on the check valves it's the check valves and they'll basically they'll dam up the two there's there's the pond that is a treatment pond that sits just to the north of the pond that has a 60 inch pipe so that's a conduit for water so that's where the two 18 inches will help control that and then on the side where the ditches are we're going to berm up those ditches put in a new catch basin that'll catch the roadway drainage from san mateo put it into that ditch those pipes also will have the tide valves too okay thank you that yeah that answered my questions um anyone else have a question vice mayor commissioner dugard okay um okay so uh is there anyone from the public that wishes to speak to this issue and i i know we definitely have janette come on down good for you you're on it girl hey hi my name is janette cornell 1858 douglas avenue um just wanted to um say thank you uh for bringing this uh to the agenda today i wanted to also extend my um condolences to you and uh you've been in our prayers so um uh yeah i just we you know as north douglas you know it's 9 00 a.m people are working trying to find their contractor for their houses so i made it a point to be here today um it still is you know ongoing for our streets in our dunedin isles area um new contractors firing some getting new ones it's been a process so we want to thank you for being on this um we do would like to know if we could have some um as the design goes a little bit of input from us since we've had eyes ears hearts on this for years um especially when it comes to the berm we understood the heights of it and all that we were um hoping as the design goes forward um if it could be a little more clear photos of maybe a rendition of like what that's going to look like because along the south part you know um kind of grading it so it comes across a little bit towards where the boardwalk is would be great um because i you guys did answer my email and i we opened them up and looked um at the photo it's still not clear to us how that's going to look um and i know we're focusing on the four valves and i will because north douglas in the area goes beyond those four valves there is another set of valves further up the street that we do have history of photos and video of water coming out of them and i understand we're focusing on the four because of the height and whatever i will tell you water does come out of the ones up there not as much as the lower ones but you know we're just trying to solve this more efficiently and not just have a band-aid i you know just want to put that out there so um as we go along and i appreciate clay everyone's been very communicative to us and we appreciate that and um that's it i just we appreciate this is on the agenda today i did look at the pdf and it said uh seven months out or something a real timeline or letting us know hurricane season's coming um we looked at the tide charts knock on wood we've been blessed not to have water in our streets for for a while and the lift station praise the lord it's being raised thank you thank you okay thank you so much um so before i take a motion um jennifer i'm assuming you'll keep the neighborhood in communication as this thing moves along we will yes okay thank you okay um i need a a motion for approval so moved second okay commissioner to guard and commissioner walker okay all in favor all right any opposed okay motion passes unanimously okay we are going to go to um approval to award contract for playground resurfacing services at edward park and weaver park and i think commissioner sandbergen you pulled that item question or you want a full full uh presentation yeah it's real so no just a couple of questions i know it looks like vince there was um a choice of multiple choice of colors for the surface what color what color will they be weaver is going to be forest weaver park playground vince first of all vince gizzi parks and recreation director can mayor would you mind if i just took a moment to introduce uh no absolutely go ahead okay um so with me is joe mclemore the third and joe um just recently got promoted to parks superintendent parks and recreation department uh joe's tenure with the department uh is 10 years and has had a positive impact and leadership on the parks division he's also advanced very quickly from a park worker one two three uh crew leader foreman and now superintendent he's got a proven history as he's exhibited strong work ethic willingness to take on additional duties include an administrator functions capital projects and collaboration with other departments and outside organizations joe has a bachelor's degree in business administration from eckerd college and he's played a significant role in several of our park projects uh in these other level positions uh parks operation facility that had a strong influence on our new facilities well two years old now uh off of solon a significant role in the gladys douglas preserve and also the pickleball court so i just wanted to give him a formal introduction in front of our city commission and actually this pulling this item gave me that opportunity does he does he also play softball very well it's in the dna very very very well he does very nice and congratulations on moving up so quickly that's great that's awesome very much okay so uh weaver is the park playground surface is going to be a forest green and um and edgewater is going to be an aqua blue and i had one other question in their proposal there's a term they use called the eight foot critical fall height it doesn't sound good i just can you tell me what that even meant well the um the the rubber surface has a cushion of three and a half to four inches and so and right around where the highest areas of the playground is if someone falls that three and a half four inch cushion will lessen any uh injury so that's that's the the the critical zone thank you for clarifying that great job joe yeah thank you okay anybody else have any other questions vice mayor thank you very much um vince what is the useful life of this material and it has a five-year warranty um but it they mostly last probably about 10 years about 10 years and and what we're doing what we're doing here is kind of just replacing the damage that occurred yes we're replacing um weaver park we're changing the the product at weaver park we had a synthetic turf uh surface uh we're finding the um rubber surface the port in place rubber works works much better and it's got a better uh cushion for a fall zone with uh with the sea level rise in the increased intensity of storms uh was there any consideration given to the fact that is there anything else out there we could look at so that if we have the same hurricane season next year we aren't replacing this again is there any hardening that can happen with playgrounds that are close to the coast yeah not not that i know of no we didn't really see anything else in the research that we were getting from other companies um in terms of keeping it like safe in that cushion this is what's been kind of promoted through those companies is the best result best product okay and and i understand that from a safety standpoint but i'm just concerned about the resiliency of the playground and uh for the amount of money the playgrounds cost i you know is this going to be an annual budget thing or every time there's a hurricane we need to consider it is any of the cost of this is it tied to the hurricanes and can fema yes we have um followed our process we went through the bidding process and uh les tyler's here if there's any further questions but uh we are going to be filing for reimbursement of both these playgrounds okay and be going through this um bid process um i don't know if you want to comment less but you know we feel comfortable that you know we should qualify okay because i know in discussing the marina right fema can help with hardening because they don't want to come back and spend money replacing the same thing so i just if if possible to reach out to fema to whoever are there other alternatives that we have out there so that we aren't discussing this after every hurricane season and there's one last thing about the the surface isn't just about cushion it's about ada accessibility and and it's it's i mean i've seen the cost of playground equipment and i've seen the cost of these surfaces and it's almost the same price as the the equipment it's it's really gotten expensive it is and i'm not judging the cost of that there's a lot of safety that goes into the manufacturing you know i grew up on on metal slides so i i get the whole safety thing um those i just would like that given consideration if possible but thank you mayor thank you uh commissioner walker any any questions on this uh no no questions commissioner degard thank you mayor um by the way i grew up on monkey bars the metal one what a dangerous item those were yeah um i've noticed in the bidding process that we have a broad range uh to a high of five hundred thirty nine thousand to our current candidate for award of 227 when such a range exists how do you assess the quality of the product you're about ready to purchase as opposed to the alternate bids yeah the the bids um the low bid made checked all the boxes it it uh it it met all the requirements uh so therefore um as some of the other bids i had the five hundred thousand dollar bid i think was way way over the top when we were looking at doing this a little bit quicker uh by going through uh just getting one quote which we decided that wasn't the right thing to do um the bids were around the three hundred thousand dollar range so we actually did very well by putting this uh through the procurement process do we check uh with other uh users who bought the product to make sure the their satisfaction is we check the references and this company's been in business for 23 years um very comfortable with with who they are well you should never be punished for hiring the low bid but i always like to check the quality when we do that thank you very much that's all i have great okay um and i i think my only question and i just got asked about these playgrounds from some parents and so it's my understanding that we're looking at once we get going it's six going to be 60 days those playgrounds should be open and running yeah yes um 60 days once once they receive the purchase order great okay okay um so if i could get a motion so moved second okay and let me ask if there is any public input on this item if anybody in the audience wishes to speak to it come forward okay seeing no one will close that and i'll ask for a voice vote everybody in favor all right any opposed okay motion passes unanimously great thank you thank you very much and congratulations again joe okay the next action item actually the only action item is the proposed agenda for march 4th 2025 and so looking at that we've got uh paint your heart purple we've got national procurement month that ought to be a fun one um and consent agenda minutes boards and committees sanitary sewer budget amendment fleet replacement uh and our big item of course is in the workshop historic preservation ordinance and we're already getting emails on that so that'll be interesting um anyway any changes or updates anything that we have to add or change everybody good so i'll take a motion for approval so moved second okay all in favor aye any opposed okay motion passes unanimously okay i'm going to suggest we take five minutes because this was our long item and uh if everybody's good with that we'll just take five minutes then we're ready to go on this with this be since it's our major item thank you thank you okay restart the meeting and our works our workshop item i guess only one public works efficiency evaluation results and recommendations so i will turn it over did uh city manager were you going to say anything first or just turn it to actually you don't need to hear from me i'm going to turn it straight over to sue and jorge okay sounds good okay it's your show good morning you get that adjusted good morning everyone uh sue bartlett public works director glad to be before you this morning i'm all excited about this project we have uh with us several of our staff members mr jorge keep this and um and of course our uh consultant la consulting which i will introduce uh after i tell you a little bit about the project they're going to tell you a a lot about the project so um before you um and an rfp to award back in august and um through a competitive bid process that purchasing put out um the lac was selected as the consultant for our fishy efficiency evaluation the whole idea is how can we improve right take a look a detailed dive into our operation to see what it is that we can do better and how can we get there and um the award um at that time we had advertised for solid waste and fleet which is integral to the solid waste cost because we have a rate study uh upcoming for the solid waste rates and the commission suggested we do the efficiency evaluation first very wisely and so um there was a discount um if we uh savings to optimize the looking at the operations all together for public works so we looked at um public works public services fleet facilities as well as solid waste or sanitation and um it was awarded for 144 000 635 dollars then and um during the evaluation the employees had a lot of feedback they were very engaged um and they're going to tell you a little bit about the process that was used and how we used teams to evaluate each step as well as um every single step we went back to the employees and their feedback and they provided feedback and there was a revision of the information if needed and then it was brought back and so during that process um i asked if there were any other tools um to facilitate some of the employees thoughts and ideas and um they they suggested this survey so we went ahead and employed them for another task so it was a total of 152 215 dollars for the evaluation still under the 164 347 that would have been had we not had a discount so with that rfp that they proposed was a very detailed list of tasks that they have completed and this is the last task on the list which is to present to the commission the draft final report they will take any feedback that you provide and incorporate it into the report as appropriate they they have their recommendations but they will listen to what feedback we have just like they have and then they will produce the final report i have the draft here bound and not and unbound and it includes all the steps and all the detailed analysis that went into the evaluation so again this is about improvement there's 75 recommendations they're going to pick out if there's picked out a few of them to dive deep for you and to give us everyone an idea what the process was and how detailed these implementation steps will be for the recommendations and um they're a very qualified team i just want to make that introduction and let you know that our employees have been very engaged in the process that is being recommended and the changes will impact this organization as a whole for the better and set up process improvement that will be continual and after the projects completed if we implement these recommendations employees will have an integral part in that improvement and their ideas being put into place and we will be able to track planner work track our work and be able to communicate that to the public to you and to be accountable for all of our time and all of our work efforts so with that said um today we have with us harry lorick he's the pe and the principal of the company and he will be making the presentation um we also have a nakil chowdhury and he has um been our project manager hands-on and and they have all been in our in our um field offices and out with the staff and um then peter cavalli so with uh brought in for um the safety aspect um to hone in on that because a lot of our rfp had that as a pinpoint um of a focus so um as well there's a couple more team members that aren't here um that contributed as well to this but uh they are very qualified um they have uh i have provided you some handouts um two additional pieces of information one is the detailed letter that they provided on the um on the cost or the improvement savings as well as the any cost that might be associated with implementation that letter is the most current update was provided to the board of finance and it um outlines again their estimated cost and estimated savings but um they have uh those estimates are on the low side conservative side on purpose um and they do include um part of the estimated implementation costs on your page two of the letter um it also um estimates if we have them help us which i've asked them for um if what the cost would be and they have included that in the the paragraph the second page for implementation so it's right there with the software being um approximately 150 000 plus the maintenance plus implementation of approximately 135 000 for public works and then also can you can you clarify where is that and how much is it on your letter on your february fourth letter okay yep on um i'm sorry it is uh on implementation it's on the third page i said second page halfway down the paragraph above resource allocation right yep that's it okay i just want to make sure that was clear yep and and before we turn to them i just want to be clear city manager so we're here to listen ask questions give input is there anything we're going to be wanting consensus direction on specifically like i you know the one that pops out at me is like the unincorporated right you know users things like that what what are you hoping to gain from us by the end of this exercise so we're hoping for consensus direction to support um the work product and move forward with these recommendations understanding that there are some of these recommendations we're going to have to return to you on with more detail but we're in in those terms we're looking at your permission to move forward uh with all those recommendations um and and then like i said understanding with some of the more uh sophisticated ones we need to come back to all of you with with additional information okay so to continue working so like if i talk about the unincorporated piece right if we all said oh yeah we we're good with that you would you be coming back with us or just letting us know what the the implementation plan would be or no i would like to come back to you let you know how many accounts that that would impact what the implementation plan would be what the communications plan is and so on moving forward so i think that that's even if we have permission to move forward we need to come back to you with with uh more additional information in terms of how we communicate it how we implement it how many people are affected exactly how much it would save for us what we do with the equipment um and so on and so forth okay good okay i just want to make sure we've got clarity what we want to end up with so mayor if i could before harry starts i just wanted to kind of give a little bit of the bigger picture i kind of touched on some of these items during the individual uh commissioner briefings yesterday but um one of the reasons i was able to convince sue to come back out of retirement uh was because she's passionate about these type of implementations um you know full disclosure both sue and i had worked with lac previously when we were with the county uh so i kind of know how this movie ends and i know when jennifer was first hired you know her intent was to you know move us towards a high performing organization to move us towards a strategic plan that we could implement and having seen how this works in the past and how this effort uh granted our staff does a great job but to move them from this response-based activity that they do now to more of a programmatic schedule your work do your bi-weekly schedules do your monthly reporting where you can report against plan versus actual for all the activities they perform that that then that rolls up into an annual plan that then ultimately becomes our ability to do programmatic based budgeting as opposed to line item based budgeting um is that ties directly to the strategic plan that you guys want us to implement so i just wanted to give a little bit of that background there's a method to the madness and this helps us make our employees more efficient in the way they conduct their day-to-day activities we can know the cost for the services we provide we can make intelligent business uh database decisions where should we contract out work what should we do do in house where do we focus our staff do we look at increasing level of service in certain areas all those things so how we implement these savings and move forward is kind of critical so to your question you know our consensus direction that we're hoping to get is approval to to move forward with these implementations you know as as a city manager indicated thank you okay yes and um also um thank you very much jorge i appreciate that i just wanted to mention how um as jorge said we have worked with the consultant i have also worked with them in volusia county um so i was very pleased when they um were the selected from the committee's the selected consultant for this project knowing i've seen results um multiple times um they are an industry leader in the application of best management practices um the during the rfp process their proposal includes information about um how they have worked with 86 agencies over 200 systems they've written 90 articles on process improvement presented at the american public works association um national meeting over 60 times um they have written several of the manuals um in um the public works manuals for process improvement asset management and maintenance management so they're they're extremely knowledgeable in those areas one of the the second handout i provided you was included in their rfp um response and it is an article from 2024 last year um written by nakil chowdhury actually on work planning and the importance and the foundation of that work planning and how it really is one of the key components to making sure that we stay efficient that we're able to plan our work and then measure against that plan and then adjust and continue to align with what uh the commission and public wants the the the business to do so with that said um harry please hello i'm harry lorick uh nice to to meet the mayor and member of the commission and uh really excited to be here and on the very first slide it's got a picture of a bunch of people which are your people but let us let you know that all those people were involved and some of them are here and the other thing i'd like to say is we have 75 recommendations that and we've met with all those the people that are in that picture if we were there that day and they accepted all 75 but they didn't accept them they came up with ideas how to implement them that's how involved they were so i don't give them credit for that they they didn't just say okay here are these recommendations yeah we agree with them they say this is the way you need to implement it so they're already thinking about how we can make things better and uh i don't that doesn't always happen so i just want to let you that was pretty interesting because often i'll get comments i don't like this or this doesn't work or what are you trying to do and but these were this is how we should do it and so i thought that was pretty impressive um so anyway get a quick about us uh we've been as sue said we've been around for a little over 30 years we focus on one thing and that's to try to help people improve so we're not auditors even though we can do we do some auditing we try to figure out ways that people could do their jobs better and the way we do that is we we have a lot of knowledge but we involve the employees themselves and they tell us things and some of these recommendations that i'm going to go they came up with it to be very honest with you because they thought it was a good idea so anyway we've been around for a while we're very active in apwa i'm on the national asset management committee and i'm the outgoing president of our chapter in southern california even though now i have moved here to florida so i actually live in the sunshine state now but um so anyway we've uh we've uh we were selected as sue said in a rfp process so and we've been doing this for a while it took us about six months to actually do this evaluation and the result was a report 164 page report which sue showed you and also we we made a presentation and it had many slides in it in fact uh 137 slides we actually presented that to all the employees so everything that you're seeing we've actually presented to the employees three times three different times we well actually four because we had a kickoff meeting with them we shared with them what we saw what they were doing we shared with them what we thought that you know how they compared to others and then we came up with the recommendations and they all and all three cases gave us input so the final result you're seeing now is is with their input we did not facilitate recommendations we came up with the recommendations but we did listen to them if we if we made a mistake in the information that guided the recommendation we changed it so we've done this a lot of time for a lot of different agencies uh you know we've worked for a lot of large ones we worked for the some of the largest counties in the united states we also finished up with saint petersburg uh we worked with a lot of counties in this state volusia county uh we actually years ago worked with pinellas county many many years ago uh and we've worked with sarasota county so we've worked with a lot of different agencies and we're the only company in the united states that does this one thing we try to help people in maintenance use technology and business practices to improve we're a small business but uh and we work throughout the united states mainly in the west coast and in the southeast um so what was the purpose of this project the purpose of this project was not an audit it was written for for us to go in and these four different groups and try to figure out ways to do things better not to compare you to another city the goal was not to compare you to another city the goal was for you to be better than the other cities so we're trying to figure out how what's the best way to do something not just oh how do we compare against uh penoles park or to the county or things like that we're trying to figure out how we can do it better and the project actually lasted as i mentioned six months we're in the last task and the report that we have is not final the reason it's not final because we want to give you a chance to have input so we're going to go through we can't go through all 75 recommendations with you today but i'll answer questions on them but we're going to go through a lot of them and i'll try to cover them quickly uh i should be able to complete it in about 40 to 45 minutes but if you want to stop and ask questions you can because i think you allocated 90 minutes so however you want to do it or you can wait to the end so i think we probably want to wait to the end for questions don't you guys gentlemen not you guys you gentlemen sorry great thank you all right um but anyway we feel really blessed to do this job i i because uh because the employees were involved as much as they were and they they gave us a lot of good input but the process that we followed is basically that graphic up there if you look at the graphic it shows uh the first time is uh is a baseline so the first thing we did it took us the longest amount of time was just to figure out what they were doing you might say well gosh you guys are experts you ought to know what they're doing well we found that things vary by where you are in the country and how you do things so we actually did different things like i i rode one of the the garbage uh drivers for half a day we went out and observed the crews uh nikil did the same thing so we spent time with the people we saw with the work they were doing we didn't we didn't go with them every day but we we talked to them we went and we find out when you're in the vehicle with a person and it's you and him he's telling you stuff that he would probably not tell you if you're in a group right he's going to tell you what it really is plus you can see things and we're going to talk about some of that so the first thing we did was do the baseline the second step is we did what we call findings where we compare here's where you are here's where other things are here's what some of the best practices are then we got input from the employees we took it to them in a presentation and we didn't know what presentation with 100 people in the room we did it four separate presentations with the groups three times so we got a lot of input we went through the process so once we did the findings then we came back and we did the recommendations and after the recommendations we made a presentation draft up the report they got a chance to look at the report again if they saw something that was incorrect we corrected it if they disagreed with the recommendation it's our recommendation right and you hired us for our opinion but in general they didn't disagree with the recommendation they just said maybe there's a different way of implementing it so the employees were heavily involved and we did surveys too one of the other things we did and we actually went out and did a survey one of the ways we did the survey is when we met with the employees we actually had four different groups again and we handed out the survey they filled it out in front of us and we picked it up now the reason we did that and i said why do you do it electronically we found that when we do that sometimes people just don't trust things anymore they don't trust that you're going to share this with other people this way we could keep it anonymous and we control that process now when we we did another survey with the managers we did electronically but one of the very interesting things out of that survey that really just piqued our interest is the employees said we can do better and we could do more work that's what the employees said not because they were doing things bad they just thought they could do things better so some of these ideas we're coming up with is because employees saw the opportunity also so we use that now the big summary and we're going to go in the details but the big summary is you know um why even do this if if we can't doing this if you can't do things bring value then why even do it at all right so we came up with five categories of ways that we think you could or four categories the way you think you can improve and the first one is the one that takes a year to do at least a year and what is that one that was the one that has a lot of these recommendations we're going to talk about in a minute that how you set up processes how do you track things how you schedule some of the better better business practices once you do those over a period of time you can improve and so we estimated that and historically we've done this we find that most of the improvement occurs after we leave to be very honest with you because people start using it and this has happened in many of the agencies we worked in and we estimated that based on a percentage of the budget and it varies in most of our studies that we've done between four and 15 percent if you do the recommendations we said if you just did four percent what would it mean nine hundred and twelve thousand well what's that number underneath it well to do that you've got to spend some money and the finance group asked that question it was a very good question if you do this don't you have to spend money to do it and we said yes you do so we estimated that for them so that the underneath it would say after you did those those improvements this is what it would take now some of those improvements may not be necessary we try to be very conservative the next grouping is equipment and what we identified was there was pieces of equipment that were underutilized and maybe you just don't need them we actually saw two pieces of equipment had zero use like zero use for the whole year well if you don't need it for the whole year you probably don't need it right so and and that that equipment's got value so you can sell that equipment plus it it reduces the amount of need for mechanics to do things so we identified those pieces of equipment that we thought now some of the equipment we've identified a whole series and we conservatively said well maybe you don't get rid of all of them maybe you only get half of them so that that's what that number is and reason it's got a percent of parentheses underneath it is because if you got rid of some of that you still need to rent some equipment because it's a specialty need maybe only need it for a couple hours the work for uh incorporation uh unincorporated area is and i'm sure you're all aware is in solid waste you pick up and unincorporated county and you charge them you have and you're you have a you charge them more than you charge your own citizens however when we evaluated we determined you aren't you aren't charging them enough you're actually compensating them so we're saying if they paid the fair amount it'd be another 166 000 you might say well we don't want to do that we do what if we don't do it at all we just don't do unincorporated you probably need a couple less people you say well you're going to lay people off well there's normally in the solid waste business there's such a turnover because of the hardness the type of work it is if you decided you didn't want to do it in the course of a period of six months you could easily transition the employees out that wouldn't be doing that so and in talking to the the solid waste manager he agreed with that he said yes that's what would happen we would just transition it out staffed optimization we did identify some positions that we just didn't think and they were more budgeted positions that weren't being used we just didn't think they were warranted so that's how we came up with that and that's the number amount amount so the total amount was 2.1 million and that and with a net of 1.7 in first year now we're going to go into the details and i'm sure you'll have questions on how we came up with those numbers so we also found other things that we didn't really put put it in there but we also think that there's some opportunities on overtime how you can better schedule your overtime and that would that would be some savings we hadn't even calculated also you have a pavement management system that's costing you some money and we think there's ways to do that cheaper and also there might be opportunity and we've actually uh one good thing about what's already happened with the city is they have identified two people that are going to kind of maintain the systems or wait to keep this going and they're all also in the room right now and um they if we're asking the people look at the fight some of the schedule we do four four ten schedule and seven people and five eights for others we think that maybe some of those four ten should be looked at as five eights there may be some opportunities there to actually save money but we're not saying do it we're saying look at it the other thing we found that is that uh public works does work for others uh we heard from the park service today and park and recs and what they're doing well a lot of the the things that one of the great things about the city is you have all these great events right i mean you know nikil lives in the area and he said man i come up to these events they're awesome he said i really enjoy it in fact i'm glad we're working for the city because i've enjoyed coming up here and it's just a beautiful city that you have but you do all these great events and what happens though the park and rec don't have the staff to do this they what they do is they borrow staff from other groups well what we found is that is they they use a little bit of public work staff and facilities and also in their public public services and we found that that they it's not reimbursed to that group you might say well it's all city business that's great but what you have to realize is you're pulling those resources away so they're probably not getting their job done so here we're going to talk about the recommendation but it and the utilities does the same thing utilities they they have open cut and then they they call public services up and they have them to repair it but you don't transfer money to them you just have them do it so they're pulling resources away and again there's really no savings here it's just moving from one department to the other but it's real and the point is that it's pulling away resources that they they might need to get their job done so we're going to talk about that a little bit later but it amounts about 150 000 but we think it's over 200 000 because they're not keeping track of their time we'll talk about that they're not really tracking their time so going into the specific recommendations there's six different categories there's a general category and facilities fleet public services uh solid waste and then there's a general theme of all of this stuff so i'm going to go through not all 75 recommendations probably i'll go through like 30 of them and uh so the first group of the general group has 14 different recommendations in it and the format that i'm going to show you i'm going to show you a baseline some this was the baseline this is the format it's going to show about employees numbers and stuff like that there'll be a findings then there'll be a recommendation now when we did this with employees they saw the baseline first and then later came back a month later we did the findings and then a month later we came back with a recommendation so it's a it's a step by step so the first one is that you had hired a firm called matrix and they did a study in 2003 and they came up with several things that we agree with they came up with some standardization the fact that some of your data wasn't being tracked we also found that you had management systems in place several of them however the the people are loading these databases up but they can't get the data out that sounds crazy but if you put data in you can't get it out then what's what's the purpose of putting it in right i mean so they're not the the public works can't use some of the data in the system now it is used for different things but it's not used for public public services or public works or facilities or fleet they can't get the data out of the system and when we talk to it they couldn't get the data out either so they're so they're using spreadsheets they have 50 spreadsheets now how much time do you think that's that we're not even counting the cost to do that they maintain 50 spreadsheets to track stuff because the databases don't are not able to do it so the second recommendation is really you ought to confirm configure the existing systems to do these things to get rid of these spreadsheets or maybe you need another system because it doesn't look like yes it's doing what it needs to be done and the employee if you ask employees they'd give you 100 on this because they can't use it they're just feeding the monster you know this database may be may be get set up there's two different systems there's a navaline system and the tyler munis system and they have the problem in both cases they are able to use some components of it public services was able to use some of the navaline system but still can't use it for some of the things that we think they should use it for one of the things is uh as sue said that gave you an article on planning and one of the things that the previous studies showed and as well as we found is there is not planning in advance that when you're tracking track what you do well what does that mean that's like playing a basketball game you don't keep the score right you keep the score but you don't know what the you don't know what if it's good or bad you know you know what's the touchdown you don't know so here we're just saying you got to have a plan in place and these pictures that i have up there are from apwa american public works associate which recommends doing this so you don't have certain tools in place and we're going to talk about what those are guidelines that basically standard operating procedures just don't exist so here we're saying that there needs to be a facilitated approach to actually develop these things develop these guidelines develop these so that people have a plan in advance the other thing that we looked at is how you cost things when you when employees work uh you you pay them a salary right but you also pay their benefits you pay for them when they're not there you pay for their uniform you pay those other costs and the city's been estimating it the public works have been estimated at 40 and they apply the 40 to regular time and overtime of course in overtime you make 50 more and then they're applying on that employees work about 1650 to 1750 hours a year the rest of the time they're off on vacation or holiday and that's normal but what we found is the overhead rate was off dramatically we estimate at minimum 75 so what we're saying is that when you do cost things you don't often cost but when you do the cost you're using is wrong it's a lower cost so you're underestimating the cost so if we're underestimating the cost we might be making the wrong decisions right you might say should we do this internally or externally well if you're underestimating your your overhead rate you're going to say they were cheap cheaper than you really are so you really need to have a updated overhead rate and you the rate that you use for your equipment and some of the other the fema rates are not your overhead rates fema rates are a rate used when there's a fema event declared by the the president and they actually come up with a rate that covers a portion of the cost it's not meant to cover all your cost it means to help local governments cover through the event so you can't use the fema rate either you need to have another rate that's the overhead cost that's your true cost and that's the way you use it for costing the other thing is is metrics how you measure what you're doing if you look at your your uh this picture that i have up there is out of your budget and what's interesting about this is all of these measures are how many units of work you did so if you look at this and you say well how many curb repairs we did we did 900 is that good is it bad how much were you efficient were we effective who knows so all the measurements are just units of things completed and yet you each year you do a budget uh evaluation where you actually submit you get an award you got an award in your budget this year uh the gfoa you got an award but if you go through and look at that award you got dinged on one thing you got dinged on more than one thing but you got dinged on one thing even though you got the award is that you don't measure certain things so you're not measuring all the performance measures so we're suggesting that you actually go in and measure things like efficiency unit cost productivity because this is the way the employees themselves can improve right because they can look at their cost and say how do we compare against others but right now if they say well we did 900 units of curb and you asked another city how many did you do it doesn't mean anything the only but if you measure these performance metrics we have unit cost and productivity you can do comparison and you can do that so we're suggesting that we set up metrics for each group going into the second group is facility uh services and we had 11 recommendations 11 recommendations on the right hand side you can't read it it's really fine but uh they're in the document that you have but and then of those uh one of them was that how they track their time and facilities they track about half their time and never line the rest of the time they don't track so they're they have a lot of different things they track to they have 75 different activities um hvac or you know heating and air conditioning is is the one they do the most here we're just saying track all your work i know i mean it's crazy but just track all your work i mean if you track not only to track your work but track the equipment and materials if you don't know what the real cost of these things are you got to track this and again is this does this by itself improve no but it gives you the tool for you to improve in the future so you're not keeping track of your costs you're not looking at the work you do you've got so many activities that even if you track the activities it would overwhelm you to have a group look at 75 activities that might be a little difficult if you did that now this you find this really interesting is that the way that uh the uh the way that the city track pays for facilities is they do it by square footage so how much square foot you have in the in the fire station if you have so many square feet then if you're 10 of the total for the city you pay 10 of the budget and so the city hall is seven percent of the square footage so they pay seven percent of the budget all the costs and facilities well we started looking at what is the actual cost well the actual cost and these allocated costs don't even match up so cost allocation if you if you look at the industry standard the the cost to maintain a fire station versus maintain this building per square foot there's a big difference or a park it's really big difference so uh and so we're suggesting that first of all you just use actual data but you can't use the actual data now because you don't put it in the system but if you put it in the system and you track it just use last years the graphic that i show you uh and that grant it shows in the graphic the the blue is what you are allocating the orange is what would happen if you use actual cost and you can see there's some pretty big differences there you know in the in the hail center they use a lot more cost than they budgeted in the in water in the water they use a lot less so again it doesn't make sense just to use square footage it's a simple way of doing it and if you don't have anything else it's probably better than nothing but if you track your cost just use cost you also have internal service fund documents and we're suggesting and you have something for buildings this shows the three different slides one said this is what's covered so facilities are set up and say this is what you're paying for in the middle is saying this is things you're not get not covered if you want it done this extra and the third is these buildings are not covered and and this is good this is a good start uh but it's it's different for different groups so we just suggest you do one for each building each department and you tell them this is what we provide for you and if you want us to move furniture and it's not in that you're gonna have to pay for it because that way you can make sure that you're properly covering if you want to cover firms you're moving in that agreement do it that's okay but whatever it is outside of that because that way people will think about it before they do something extra before they ask the facility to pull off because there are not that many facility people and then also get the department to sign off on it so that they know what's happening the other thing is there's a custodian and i know when we made a presentation here what six months ago you asked me to stand up here and say what are we going to be doing for the money you asked me about custodial at that time uh and that is the biggest contract you have for facilities uh and it is a lot of money uh but when we looked at it and we looked at your previous analysis it looked like i guess it's still the best way to go you know it still seems reasonable the cost seems reasonable and look to us that if you did it yourself it would probably cost you more plus it's hard to keep staff and you have turnover and all that kind of thing so but the thing to be right now the way it works is you assign facilities doesn't have full staff right now they assign a plumber to go and do checking on these custodians they don't have many plumbers so you're using one of your technical staff it's hard to find a plumber plumbers are expensive it's harder to find a plumber than it's fun engineer i mean really you can find engineers before you find plumbers so right now you're having to use one of your your technical staff to go with the the custodian make sure they get the job done so here we're saying wait a minute the contractor has an agreement they're supposed to have staffing on it so we're suggesting that you actually utilize uh have them document the status and then instead of using the plumber maybe have the business analyst to monitor it and see and uh and see if if they're doing their work if they're not doing their work you cite them but to use a technical person it's not necessary i mean a lot of places that work you have people that are that are non-technical people that might you don't have to be technical to monitor custodian work we can all monitor uh there's also uh you do some inspection uh you have a daily scheduling meeting for facilities they meet every morning and they meet their their location and they decide what what they're going to do that day we're suggesting that they instead of deciding that day what they're going to do let's do a schedule and do it a couple weeks and one to two weeks in advance incorporate staff in in it and then include routines and other things you might say well that's no big deal well think about it if every morning everybody's got to they've got to wait one hour before they go out one of the biggest ways to improvement is get the people out of the out of their quickest is possible and how do you do that you have a schedule and you adjust the schedule based on people who's available and what equipment's available it's one of the biggest ways we've seen you can get improvement now we didn't even measure this this is part of that that part that we're saying a year later you get improvement but if you do this you will get improvement special events we talked about special events you have a lot of them and you know kudos to you i mean i know it's it sounds like some great events that you have and we and but about 50 of the events facilities gets involved in and how they get involved is electricians the electricians have to go in there and set these things up and the it takes considerable time and and not only that there's a lot of time that they spent that's not even counted they go to the meetings in fact we went to one of the meetings just to see how long the meeting lasts we didn't last couple hours they're sitting there for a couple hours in the meeting along with uh sheriff deputies and probably 10 or 15 people in the room and you have to do a coordination meeting i agree but it's costing money and so they're not even costing that so we're saying wait wait a minute if you go to the meeting you should count it so here we're just saying ensure all the time and materials for special events are because you want to know what it costs to do this it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it it just means you should know what it costs plus some of these events are done by private entities that you maybe there's a way to charge back we didn't count this in any savings but so and also track equipment you know if you drive a truck out there that's a cost too and maybe you can't recoup these costs in the budget but at least be aware of them and in detail it maybe it takes one of those electricians almost equivalent to support them so maybe you need another electrician or maybe you know some other way to understand that's why you don't have enough staff because they're getting pulled off you need to do it no question but maybe there's another way fleet services is the third group 14 recommendations one thing about fleet they likes to do things they think they can do everything which is good which they do a lot of unique things and they've uh they were the first one to set up tyler munis they have a very organized inventory they they do videos where you've probably seen some of the videos that they do and and almost like little movies they set up uh they do a lot of good things but one of the things that they do is also maybe things that doesn't help and in other words they want to do things no matter what so here here we think that some of their work they should probably check first to see if it economically makes sense they up for the instance garbage trucks garbage trucks have a hit in a nasty nasty environment and the bodies deteriorate so sometimes you have to re-body the the truck and there was a study done by kci for you and it says that doesn't make sense to you do it yourself it's too costly also we noticed that some one of your vehicles got flooded doing this storm and these guys said we can fix that well the best way to fix that is and claim the insurance and get a new vehicle it's just not cost effective it's not that they but they want to do it and that's good but we're suggesting in our in our recommendation that that they get written economic justification before they start jumping into these things because now we got a vehicle that's taken apart that's sitting in the garage and nothing's happening to it so and and then get input from the other mechanics there's some there's good people over there and sometimes maybe as a team they could make better decisions but we think that the director of public works ought to be involved before you start spending money fleet they again they do a lot of things do preventative work they have a asset inventory they have there they also use certain rates and the rates that they use were based on rates that were set up about 10 years ago and they haven't changed so some of their rates in fact their their rate for the mechanic is 85 an hour we estimated that it's about 127 an hour so even when they do keep track of it they're underestimating the cost so again it might lead to making a bad decision it uh so we and i know that the current leader in fleet says i'm going to update the rates next year because he's only been here a year and he's gotten he's starting to put the number into the data into the new database and he thinks he can come up with the right rate but we don't have it right now and right now the rate you're using is something that's dated and here's i'll show you what's been dated this was an audit was done by the city on how and fleet they allocate to allocate meaning in your budget rather than charging for what actually occurs you allocate cost and they allocated cost by these percentages on the right so solid waste uh the uh residential and commercial if you look at that graphic on the left if you look at this the second bullet that's that's accumulated about 40 something percent or almost 50 percent uh 51 of all the cost for fleet is is gone to solid waste that's how it was paid for well how much is it really this this allocation was set up almost 10 years ago it hasn't changed and now again the fleet manager says i'm going to change it once i get real data but right now it doesn't make sense uh it may be it may not but you had an audit 2012 that the city did of their fleet service and said we need to look at these numbers so we're saying allocate it based on actual cost take last year's data and just allocate it that would be the simple way of doing it wouldn't require much effort you just look at last year's cost and you and you say that's the percentage we're going to use this it'll catch up over a period of time maybe you know you have a couple blown engines in one group it's going to make it a little bit a little bit higher use a little common sense in that but are or charge exact as it happens charge it as you go you can do it either way but it's not it's not true true cost we also looked at the fleet size there was a study by the chatham consultant and we looked the way they looked at it and we agree with a lot of the things they recommended a mru analysis which basically says look at uh standardization of like of a they expect a bulldozer have so many hours per year on it and a garbage truck has some and you can figure out how many people you need based on these standards so we actually did a small one and it looks like that's the staffing levels in the fleet are adequate in other words the people they have now can get the job done and they have vacancy but we think they're getting the job done now and yet we in some yet there's some other things that could be done to make them even more efficient we looked at their workflow and this is kind of the workflow i'm not going to go through every box but in the workflow scheduling is done on an ad hoc basis so what they do is they create a bunch of work orders like these would be more work orders they create the work orders and they pile it on the desk and the mechanics in the morning come over there and they pick the work order they want to do and they do it now sometimes there's a priority but most times they're not they're just piled up there and they pick what they want to do now that's good that you do that you have mechanics that are senior and stuff but human beings are human beings right they're going to pick the work they like to work on maybe not the work and so here we're saying that that you know that's most agencies have a process if you go into the ford dealership i guarantee you then the ford dealership if they create a work order or service request they don't put it on a pile and let one of their mechanics pick it right there's a priority to it there's one you know it and and it's actually assigned that doesn't happen the mechanics also they select their parts so once the mechanic gets the job he needs parts he goes into the part room and gets parts that's also very unusual so a couple of things they're doing we think are a little bit unusual so we think there ought to be a a different a structured scheduling process where the lead or the foreman assigns the work and then with the time on it and individual mechanics and they optimize the schedule uh by doing that one of the other problems is is that the in if you went up to the fleet and he looked at it the bays have different heights to them okay they have different heights well some trucks won't fit through the the the short height they have to go through the taller height so what happens if you have a vehicle in the place where it has the tall height and you get another truck that needs to go in there and it's blocked it can't get in there well we've seen people working out in the yard because that's what they have to do the mechanics are working out in the yard because they can't get it in there why is that because they're not scheduling it they're just saying pick what you think you need to do so they really need to look at that they need to do a schedule and really it's more of a management 101 type stuff um as far as organizing this is their general organization uh we looked at their positions they have uh two positions that there's a question who's in charge the mechanics got a little bit confused in the survey because they're getting direction from two different people there's been a lot of discussion on that and uh we also we don't think uh you know so we think we ought to restructure the responsibility so somebody in the parts room gets the parts out and gives it to the mechanic the mechanics don't go into the parts room i'm not saying things happening but it's not a good practice and and if you go to any shop here in town i guarantee you they don't let the mechanics go in there and grab the parts parts are brought out to the mechanics also we think that uh that they ought to record it now i'm talking to the fleet manager he said that's the way it's going to happen so in the process that's good the other is i don't think you need one of those mechanic positions there's one that's vacant you just don't need that position it's not needed the work's getting done now in an inefficient process and we're talking about getting running some of the equipment at the same time so we don't think you need one of those positions there and that's one of those costs that we show us savings on because you we don't think you need that position going to the next category public services public services are basically streets and stormwater these are all the activities these are all the recommendations on the right you can't read it too small but just want to show you all of them and basically it's in scheduling the duplication work tracking hours reimbursement these are all the activities they do they track one thing about this group is they do track their time they track about 80 of their time this one group tracks their time better than anybody else they get about 80 of their time these three categories show the different activities they do and what percentage basically in streets eight of the 28 account for 81 of the work and stormwater three ten of the 39 account for 81 traffic control three of the 25 so they're tracking a lot of things but really not there's really a few activities that account for most of the things so here we're suggesting define all the activities in other words define what they are clearly out on what each activity entails and then establish a unique measurement unit so right now you if let's say you're doing pothole patching and you finish the pothole patching what do you measure do you measure the pothole or you measure the size of the pothole or how much material you put in the pothole what if you turn about if you if you clean out a street a culvert what do you measure the length of the culvert the culvert each there's really no right or wrong answer you just need to do something right now in 70 almost 70 percent 79 percent of the time we don't track what we did we track the time if we track the time so you have time but you don't say what you did so i'm not sure how they come up some of those numbers that we have in those in that budget that item i showed you because they're not tracking it in the database these are the guidelines that's hard to see but what we're suggesting is they set up guidelines really they should do guidelines for all groups basically define what the activity is describe the activity who's in it so this is like the internal benchmark so you describe an internal benchmark to have something to compare against and also your productivity have a productivity number in there so here we're saying develop a specific guideline for each activity and you need to facilitate this because you want to push that productivity so that the it's a stretch a little bit it's it's not what they do it's not a quota it's what you do on an average day be like a you know you're getting ready to have uh your baseball team start up in a little bit it's that batting average what is that the batting average for the whole year so you also come up that for how many potholes can you do in a day normally how many signs can you fix in today normally and then at the end of the year you look at it said do we meet that you can do a comparison so it's a way to set your internal benchmarks now in their fleet usage they have 64 pieces of equipment and they're in the fleet that does for the you know public services of those 25 use less than 150 hours a year 12 use less than 12 15 hours a year so if you use a vehicle less than 15 hours a year unless you're not recording it it's possible they're not recording it that's possible but if they're recording correctly and they do they do record their labor pretty accurately if that's true then you probably don't need some of those vehicles you unless they have special need you can't rent it but you're in a major urban area you can probably rent anything here in the tampa bay area if you really want to but we're suggesting that maybe you don't need all those vehicles so we're suggesting evaluate vehicles on 150 hours and determine if you need them and eliminate and sell vehicles that are extremely low usage unless there's a logical or economical justification for being provided on it so you might need to keep it maybe it's the only way you can get that vehicle you need it and you need it for emergencies you know sometimes that is the case that you know you've got to have this vehicle just in case special events now this group also does special events facilities does the electrical these guys what they do is they set up the traffic control and you've seen them put out the traffic control you guys go to the events so this division does and they don't recover their time either and you know they they covered 45 events last year and uh a small number of the events count for most of it you know you can kind of see you you had a approval of the mardi gras today but it's the big one as you already know and they spend the most time on that but they spend time on all of them here we're just saying fully account for all costs labor costs equipment costs and especially equipment costs because equipment they use heavy equipment to move the stuff out there and then and then look at the cost transparently so everybody knows it looks like this at only about 60 percent of the cost is tracked and then prioritize the cost recovery like the major events so at least on those keep track in detail and then either reimburse them for it or just to make an allowance and know that you're using that much maybe we're using two ftes out of this group and all they're doing is supporting the these these uh these events which is okay but that means we've got two less people to do the work and they're already short they're really short staff over there already so what this means is they're not doing preventative maintenance so right now you're on that group is on a situation we call you call we haul you know they just if you call them they go out and do the work they do it or work immediately but they don't have time to do the preventative maintenance because you're short people and this doesn't help i'm not just saying this is wrong because you got to do it this is this is what the city is special these special events but how you allocate money and cost and people that's something else now we talked about work units uh they don't 79 of their work orders have no units on them now 11 or 21 percent does have work units however they use multiple work units you know it's like taking apples and oranges and bananas and adding them up and saying how many how many do we have well it it doesn't tell you anything so right now like for one group it's hard to see up there but if you can see cleaning uh inlets out you have linear feet you have square feet cubic feet and each okay if we added those all together what would we get we get nothing so we are tracking but we're tracking the wrong thing so here we're just saying okay train people to track record uh that and use one measurement pick it it doesn't matter what you pick just pick one so we can get a unit cost if you don't do that you can't get a unit cost you can't get productivity numbers going into solid waste solid waste uh they have three different basic services they have residential commercial and special services in the residential they they send uh to the specific location three trucks a day four days a week so if you're the curbside picks up that the bigger trash can as you know the the recycle uses the blue and then the other group the bulk yard waste they pick up whatever else so three different trucks go out there to do this and then sometimes they get in conflict now now kill and i both were riding in the trucks and we actually saw it firsthand the trucks come up one one's picking up the trash and the next person's going to pick up trash in the same location so they got to wait on it it's not that big a deal but it happened three times when i was in the vehicle that morning so they had to wait so lost a couple minutes here a couple minutes there and it added up in the course of the year it might be a little bit so here we're just saying adjust the schedule so that doesn't happen there's there's ways you can do that and the second is the you know the the yard waste as you probably aware they pick up the yard waste manually the the the trash cans that they pick up that has the regular weights then they have a side arm one person driving the truck the yard waste picked up by people they load it in the back and sometimes there's rules on on picking that up how heavy it can be and sometimes they're skipping over those rules well that skipping all those rules can cause a problem you know there's reason you have rules of the weight because people can get hurt and it's actually this is this group of people that do this work is one of the most highly accident prone group that you have almost ripped there with police and fire they get hurt that much because of picking up all the time so you got to be really careful and if you're going to set a rule you need to follow the rule or change the rule this is a graphic of the uh i know i'm going fast but there's a lot to cover here um so this is a pie chart showing in the city the unincorporated area is in the orange and that's the area that you pick up for the unincorporated citizens for and you have an ordinance at the bottom that you charge more for picking this up it's about nine percent of the total we estimated that that that you're underestimating the cost by about 166 000 so here we're saying either charge the full cost for the unincorporated county areas are discontinued the service and if you discontinue the service reduce your resources in other words maybe reduced by two staff and maybe a vehicle itself the other thing is these unincorporated areas aren't they aren't consistent you pick up here and you skip to this one and go to that one it's harder it takes more time we don't really know how much more time but it takes more than normal because in the city you're picking up every location right also they have uh garage have 29 garbage trucks and that graphic you see on the right is the average amount of usage per year in the life of the vehicle in the life of the vehicle and the reason we don't have it by year is because you don't track it by year so we can't tell how many hours you used in one year we did find two vehicles that weren't used at all but other than that we couldn't tell exactly how many but normally in in the garbage business if uh if you called up a private vendor they'd say we have we have a truck and we have backup trucks about 20 to 25 percent of our trucks are backup trucks you have 100 so you got to and so we think that uh if we looked at it you know the fleet averaged about nine years about that's good uh they use each vehicle average about 4.7 that's good you got so many vehicles uh hours per day so we're suggesting that you optimize the fleet by removing four to five vehicles that have low usage and that ensure that the future vehicle replacement that the fleet manager gets involved in this right now it's done by solid waste which is good but we think that the fleet manager and the assistant director of public works uh gets involved in this and look you look at data make decisions based on data on usage maintenance cost if you haven't high maintenance costs on that equipment maybe you should get rid of it you know but right now we're making judgment calls which is good you need any judgment but maybe numbers would be helpful but just to share with you i was told by the fleet uh manager by solid waste we're beating that four to five we're getting rid of six so they're already making decisions it's good but anyway the point is is that i think they recognize once they had the information that that was something they should do the other thing is they as i mentioned you have different types of crews you have that the side arm crew that's the one that picks up your trash it's one person in the vehicle it's got a side arm it grabs the trash and puts it in the truck you've got the rear loaders that's the ones that you're driving down you have two guys that are hanging off the back of the truck to jump out there and pick up the trash and then you've got the front end loader you can see the picture in the blue truck on the top corner left corner up there is it picks up the big cans that you have and commercial and maybe convenient condominiums and then the truck at the bottom down there is a is a grabber truck picks up the heavyweight stuff well anyway the way it works is pretty good is that if if you're a driver and you can drive all of these trucks you get a higher pay if you can drive three trucks you get a higher pay two trucks you get a little bit higher if you drive one truck you get a little bit lower pay so by having to drive someone can drive all trucks it gives tremendous flexibility because right now you got people that can only drive one truck so therefore they can only be used in certain cases what if you don't have work for them what do you do with them well you know it's hard to find so here we're saying that you know so different roles exist we're saying revise the policy to require all new employees to operate all three don't worry about the ones now but the new people that come in and i talked to the to the talk to bill over in solid waste he said yeah i think that's a good recommendation but we need to set it up to give them six months or so to get there because not they're not going to come in but by doing that he gets him tremendous flexibility we can probably get by with maybe even less people because that way we can use them for doing everything okay the general themes this is the last category there's five recommendations in that this covers all of the ones i just talked about first of all we think that a lot of this we're seeing is basically based on people's skill and managing a lot of people have done a great job with the city and they've moved up in the ranks but maybe maybe we didn't train them maybe we didn't give them a little bit of guidance so here we're suggesting that there's a program called apwa certification program that allows for public works managers and supervisors we're suggesting that you have each manager obtain the certification it does cost you a little bit of money a couple hundred dollars but we're suggesting that you do that there are scholarships also but and because we think that just just the people are smart enough they're just sometimes hadn't they've just moved up in the ranks that doesn't mean you're a good manager though it means you know the work so maybe a little bit of background that so we think this would help the other thing we observed is that you have dedicated employees employees want to do a good job because i mean why else would they come back and say we want to do these recommendations and this is what we suggest a public service was fantastic they wrote down on every one of theirs this is why we should do it so they want to do a good job there's no question uh that they can't use these databases they have their productivity they can't track it it's not set up they can't figure out what cost recovery is the there are good safety practices exist there are some that we identified that that uh peter identified that might help them a little bit better it wasn't a major issue but it was an issue and they don't can't cost work so a lot of these things we observed the key issues are scheduling for all groups focusing on resources productivity and vacancies let's fill some of these positions continuous improvement majority of the managers are concerned about how long it takes to hire people and so here we're saying first of all here all groups track their work all groups track their work and they develop a comprehensive work plan we talked about that schedule the work in advance right now very few of them are scheduling the work in advance except for solid waste because they're on a routine generate outputs with performance metrics in it the other is prioritize hiring to fill some of these positions we got two groups that are really short people facilities and public services they're short people now i i was told the other day that that facilities you got a new manager came in and he's been active hiring people which is really good because you can't do any work if you don't have the people right and right now those two groups don't have enough people doesn't mean that that's the optimum number of people but you're short people so you're not able to do that and then collaborate with hr to see if you can expedite this and i think that's already happening at least sue told me that's happening already as far as the management process this flow chart is a flow chart in american public works association things that they that you should be doing and if you look at what you're doing you're doing pieces of it p means partial there's nothing it means nothing so right now you're not really planning in advance and you're really not tracking your work you're tracking parts of the work you do do work requests and you don't really have a continuous improvement process so many desired functions are not being performed uh surveys indicate uh need for better communication you guys talked about communication earlier today you gave an award for communication this group needs to work better on their communication also and they also need a little bit better training for their managers and the databases lack the functionality the database you have now are not working now can they be configured to do that maybe but right now we're kind of dubious of that because no one can give us the data in fact we wanted to get the data out of navalon that's one of your databases nobody could give us the data now the kill happens to be a software engineer so we asked if they give us the tables how many tables they give us 71 tables and they say here's the tables well what's in the table well look at the tables yourself so we had to figure it out so we had to go into the tables and back out those numbers that you saw and we actually use it and i'm not saying anything against any group i'm just saying that the databases aren't set up for people to use it to do anything they're just storing information you're feeding the monster we call so anyway established business process for planning transitioning the 50 excel databases take time somebody's got to put the data in there so in addition to loading up these other databases you're loading up these expel well who's doing it the supervisors well super what the word supervisor means supervising right they're not data entry operators but anyway they're having to populate these excel databases and some of the databases are fantastic in the fleet department they've set up programs in their excel databases because the system doesn't do what they want so they know they need it but they don't know what to do about it the other is configure the system databases to deliver management direction and you need to do plan versus actual if you're going to improve you got to know this is what we should be doing and here's what we're doing right now you're tracking partial things of what you're doing but you don't know what it means so you don't use it none of the managers use the data to do anything the only thing they use is to report in that that uh the budget we looked at they use it because somebody needs that or they want to give the you know the madam city manager a report so they pulled enough data to give her a report but they're putting it in excel spreadsheets they're not using the databases to do it so really need to implement if you can't make the system do this you might need another system and i hate to say that the last thing i want to say it's been another system but the system you got aren't working they're just and they're they're accounting system so what do you get out of accounting systems accounting there's no work planning features in there there's no ways to track things in there so it's not set up to do that maybe the purpose they were retained were for that purpose i don't know so with that coming back to that same slide so now you can understand a little bit better how it came up with the cost that that uh one on the top left corner that's the one if you implement the scheduling in the process and tracking and costing that the employees themselves using this will improve because they'll use it the second one is equipment equipment that's a real once you get rid of the equipment you that can be done pretty immediately and then you'll you'll have money that you save by selling the equipment and plus you won't have to maintain the equipment that's a cost in the future work for the unincorporated area that's the solid waste uh you if you get rid of uh of doing that for the the unincorporated area you would need to reduce staff or if you charge them the right rate you'd get 166 000. they can't get a better rate you're not expensive so i mean it's not like that you know they'll go someplace else they'd probably still use you even if you raise the rate they probably won't like it but you know it is what it is that's the real cost staffed optimization you have the staff that we mentioned that are not possibly needed that not people but positions in the budget if you eliminate those so you wouldn't you'd budget for it you wouldn't have it so that's how we came up with uh that cost and again there's other opportunities that we're suggesting that uh that other people uh that uh sue has set up a a a group of two people that brian and and tanya uh that are here i think they're both here yeah right there the two right there two good looking ones that they uh they've been set up to monitor this so once you set it up because if you don't have somebody monitor it ain't gonna work you know immediately you know you get a certain improvement then everybody walks away you got to have somebody looking at this stuff and if we think that they can do different things uh and then we think that you can look at the overtime we think there's opportunity for overtime but we couldn't totally figure it out because of the tracking but it looks to us that you're over you're overtime for certain groups are too high and we think it's a scheduling issue and then uh the pavement management system you pay uh thirty thousand dollars a year for a system and and there might be a difference of opinion on that one but we think that maybe maybe that one could be done cheaper um we think you do it manually for half that cost but anyway documented savings for we think that uh the the two people i just mentioned in the system group we think they ought to look at the five day week and see if there's some cases you could go from the four tens to a five day we think in some cases not all cases it would work now facilities you need them here in the morning right before anybody gets in and they might need to stay later so maybe a 410 is good for them so different groups is different but there are some groups that it we don't we wonder if it really makes sense uh then the resource allocation we've talked about that we think that there's nothing you're just you're just no that's not savings it's just moving money from one place to another but it's it's making you aware or making everybody aware that money is being spent from these from public works into the other departments and it's not unusual it's not like a song anyway the utility department uh to pay for um for cuts that's pretty common and most agencies i work in the utility because if not they'd have to pay for it but anyway it's up to how you do business but anyway there is money that's being the resources are being used we think that number is about 207 000 but we can't tell because you don't track how you track so so where do we go from here well first of all we can't this is our report we can't finalize this report because we want your input because we work for you so uh if you have comments we can talk about them now or if you want to take time to look at this and give us comments we'll be open to that too and then we'll have a final report and we'll send you the final report uh but anyway we appreciate the opportunity to you giving us this much time and uh that that means you're interested you're interested in what's happening here and so thank you for that i we really have enjoyed working for the city the employees here are you're lucky to have the people you have some of the things we've done fine they can do better but it's not because they're not trying to do a good job i haven't i'm seeing that some places i go i can't say that you know but anyway here you've got some good people they want to do a good job they just need some tools in place okay that i'll answer any questions you have thank you harry so so we're going to take questions we'll go one by one for questions then we're going to open it up for public input and then we'll come back and we'll have plenty of time to for each person to give their comments and direction to staff so so i'll start for questions i know we're going to get brilliant questions over here from commissioner walker we probably won't have any other questions after that but no anyway commissioner walker start with you yeah i'll try to be brief and brilliant um thank you uh that very comprehensive um it's uh it i'm just wondering if you got any inspiration from the nuclear navy on this it uh well i'm starting to have flashbacks a little bit of ptsd but uh it's um i did use the fleet rates the fleet study there's a naftac fleet facilities i knew it was in there i i have we actually did use that in the the mrus remember when i told you about mrus we actually used some of those numbers out of that that study yeah well i appreciate that i i'm telling you all right it uh so i guess you know in no particular order i do have some questions um so we we reference uh the the systems that we use to track i get well actually first question i think this is really the first question is is that um there is a lot of data in this and there's a lot of process recommendations and i'm just kind of curious as to i would view in this and i appreciate the fact that the feedback from the consultant is that the staff has leaned forward and trying to generate an implementation plan you know as the recommendations were brought to light and all this but um are how how are we going to implement this because this there's a lot here yes um well we're going to lay out a plan the um recommendations actually are in a suggested order of implementation um frankly i'm hoping that we will get support to have lac help us implement um i'm feel very confident that they will say you know you guys you staff can do this yourself um because we've already had some of those discussions um as i mentioned um jorge and i have both worked with lac um implementing in other areas uh similar type recommendations of course they were unique to that agency but um we're going to use our staff and um it'll be a training process and with guidance and help if if that works out from lac um i think we will implement it we'll have a plan and it'll be very um detailed just like their scope of work it'll be task by task and we'll just take one step at a time starting out with uh our activities um you know there's i think the first one of the first ones is mission statement clarity of our direction and then we'll start putting the pieces in place yeah yeah well that makes sense i um you know i have i have absolutely no question that the parts that will actually are focused on any sort of cost savings or you know um will be the ones that you know we would probably focus on first and i and i see i see some areas you know in terms of just how activity is is monitored um you know i saw something that looked like a work breakdown structure in these slides and you know i think those are relatively easy things to fix in terms of time reporting that stuff so um the the other question i would have on this is is that um that we referenced a number of different tracking systems um obviously the the implementation of those tracking systems you know comes at a you know that's where we start talking about some of our it infrastructure and i'm just kind of wondering what that looks like um so we have been working with michael um this whole way um looking at the systems we have currently and what the capabilities are and of course it would be integral to any software that we we would if we need to acquire um and i did want to mention that um some of these will be done parallel i mean there's no doubt there's a few things as you heard and it is true the staff is jumping and they want to do some of these things so there are some of these that um are low-hanging fruit and they have already started working on them but we really want the processes in place because we want them to learn how to use the analysis and to make decisions continually you know as we go along but um as far as the cost of those softwares or systems they are and they are actually included in the estimate that's why there's a net um and the implementation cost as well so may i add mayor to which slide may i add to that mayor oh i'm sorry yes that's all right so that's a really good question and i want to do a little bit of a deep dive on that when we uh in 2016 2017 when we went uh to tyler for our erp this efficiency study was not envisioned and it was not rolled into um the tyler munis um or the work order program that we have that said i have asked sue to sit down with the project manager from tyler who will be here next week to find out if there's any sort of interface anything that we could do to to uh use tyler as as our software program for the workflow uh reporting however if that's not possible that i think it's crucial that we go to a program that will robustly report what we need and accomplish the goals of this program i don't want to fail for the avoidable in those terms um i do want to at least give tyler the chance to say yes we can do that and these are the programs that we have um and test them out uh but but that said i do think if if they don't and they don't do everything that we need them to do then we need to move on thank you thank you and and we have i have talked with tyler i mean so you know we we have talked to them but again we're going to talk to the project manager next week it's set up already to make sure there's pieces that we can't see i mean no they're they're not hiding or that um you know we don't know what we don't know so we will uh work with them and michael's been asking the questions too but obviously there's a session essential components here that have to be in place for work management and for the processes to work we need a simple tool that our staff can all use and commissioner if i could elaborate some so you know when harry was putting together this slide we wanted to make sure that we had not just the savings but the net savings so this is kind of a worst case conservative scenario in that it presumes that if we have to acquire a work management software um that it's it's built into these costs and in addition they're very conservative costs like on the magenta one the business improvement which harry indicated you know that happens long after they've left um that's based on a four percent estimate um the optimization of equipment they went very conservative on the salvage value of when we send these these pieces of equipment as these vehicles off to auction what the surplus value will be um the staff optimization numbers as well so all these numbers are predicated on very conservative assessments and the presumption that if we can't make tyler provide the analysis it's necessary to develop that annual plan that then there's a cost associated for that specific type software and in addition on on the optimizing of equipment um that just rolls back into being able to do bi-weekly scheduling right because if we move away from this response based approach that we've done over time and you can schedule your work two weeks out then you know what piece of equipment you might need next week and you can you can rent it as opposed to having it sitting in the yard because i might need it at some point in time yeah no that's great i appreciate that clarification um the um the main facilities the cost allocation for those you you did that on a per square footage basis for facilities yeah yes it's on square foot is that is that just the upkeep of the facility or is there usage in that what how did what did what does that mean exactly yeah it's it's a city of dunedin's allocation and um there are two um that document that he showed the isf document that says what services are included there is a couple of um variances from it but in general that is what it covers the isf contribution so it essentially provides the budget for the staff and facilities then there are capital replacements that are directly budgeted in that department's fund through collaboration with the with facilities so we have kind of two things going on there similar to fleet capital replacement and then maintenance so janitorial is also allocated on a square foot basis and is directly related to the um the the contract and the services that are provided and what harry indicated earlier during his presentation is we also want to look at not just a square footage allocation so what we'll define it by departments what each one will need but also you want to allocate based on the type of facility right city hall is going to require a different maintenance than fisher field would you know so it depends on the facility that you're providing the service to and then you allocate based on actual cause you're kind of looking back and adjusting yearly sure okay that's that's what trues it up and for clarification thank you nan um so there are costs to the building that are not included in that isf but they are allocated um and that like like electricity so um there's actually different accounts and those all get parsed out but it is not part of that isf fund it is cost allocated based on actually on use for that particular um example but each of the utilities and costs for the building maintenance are handled through finance um water all the utilities are directly costed to that account got it yeah okay and that's why i wrote isf and an arrow pointing to facilities okay no that was perfect um the custodial contract um my sense is is that that allocation you referenced with regards to the custodial services that are provided per facility may be somewhat different than the actual contract itself is there kind of a no they're actually um they're right out of the contract however the different types of maintenance or or cleaning that has done the frequency of it depending on the facility so like the causeway restroom gets you know i don't know a lot of cleaning and so that is directly allocated to that particular account and um so like right now spring training is in swing so these bathrooms down here at the train depot they actually increase the frequency and parks you know budgets and and allocates for that it's a direct allocation got it and i should have clarified so there's a facility isf which is the maintenance of those buildings versus the custodial contract allocation okay yeah but that's good to hear that makes sense um the um the rate analysis that you referenced with regards to being 10 plus years old um i guess ties into two questions that i have on that um and i my my my my reference on this would be specifically on an outside agency coming in and auditing the actual rates and then um you know which you know i think you you've made a you made a objective point on that that the rates are not really consistent with the between what we're budgeting for and what the actuals are um how often how often do you think those rates should get updated if you use actual numbers you can do it every year okay all right yeah just use use use last year's numbers and that's what a lot of people do they use last year's numbers and they use that and they use that allocation to the next year and then they they take nate this year's number forward and you might get off one year but you'll you'll catch up with it if you do it okay i do it every year okay yeah that makes sense um all right the uh last question i have on this is is the reference to the uh we're we're we're short people in our departments and you know i think every budget season that we go into we're we're looking at all of these unfilled positions um and the city manager you mentioned that when we were during our agenda review on monday um i guess you know part of this improvement process would be kind of figuring out how we get those gaps filled um and yes what do you what are your thoughts on that um so uh you know we've identified through some process mapping internally some improvements that can be done and i think one of the recommendations is pretty clear focus on hiring um for our own managers because they're just so busy you know what's our priority but it's it's very clear we need to focus on the vacancies we've also made some changes like in this past budget year um well first let me address um so as he mentioned in facilities um the new managers already interviewed they've recommended three hires um actually recommended four but one person already found a job so we're you know again because of the focus to get to get the interviews done um we've changed some of our positions um part of our analysis showed that we weren't competitive i know that we had the wage and comp study and things were um kind of equalized there with the market but we found that we are still having difficulty hiring some of those so we looked at what functions do we need and we reclassified some of those positions into things that we need right now and really it fits right into this because we become more efficient we make decisions based on facts we may not need as many labor resources but we still need to have assessment and we need to have these other functions so i think in public services we changed three positions for field assessment and then uh assessment of our pipes so we're taking a multi we're approaching it from multiple multiple directions to try to address that certainly um we some of these training and certification programs are going to help us in our recruitment process they're going to um provide our our current employees with incentives to stay as well as um a great place to work that you can also get certifications at and they will also train you and keep those certifications up so that's another you know sort of a soft um benefit and if i could commissioner um also under the staff optimization kind of on a sidebar you know the sub consultant that lac head peter for um safety you know we've identified quite a few areas that we need to make safety improvements so where you identify a position that's perhaps not needed for example the mechanic in in fleet so perhaps we take that position and allocate it across public works to have an individual that's focused on safety improvements across the department not only in fleet but in public services and solid waste and and so that way we can instead of eliminating a position you allocate it towards an identified need yeah well i greatly appreciate that very good presentation thank you mayor great okay commissioner de gard thank you mayor um mr lord let me congratulate you um it is rare to see a management recommendation like this coming forward with unanimous support from your subject your team um ordinarily um ordinarily well there's an old expression the only thing that likes change is a wet baby and um we are we're seeing something that uh wants change and i think you've identified some key areas i'm getting more into comments than questions so i'll move to question you've seen a lot of these studies you perform them yourselves i'd like you to give us some advice on how best our commission can support this in implementation i think the key the key way that i've seen that i found that these systems work if leadership wants it if leadership doesn't want it it doesn't work so if somehow the information doesn't go back how they're doing to you and to the to the city manager and then to you it won't work because then they don't think you really believe it's necessary it's not important so the key thing is the status of where they are where they what they said they were going to do versus what they did and if you do that and they report back to the city manager and she reports to you that this is what's happening it'll definitely happen no question but if you don't do it it may or may not happen because then it just relies strictly on the the people's desire to make it happen however as as you mentioned they got unanimous support because the people want to get better that you know the they they made in the survey they said they could do better when i've never had anybody ever have that normally i get 20 percent so they can do better here you had almost 60 saying we can do better so i think the both of those working together will allow you to do it but they got to report back to you there's got to be a way that these people transmit the information up to you city manager and you see it and maybe you get a quarterly report say how we doing that type of thing if you don't do that it tends to fall off and that it's really important for the for the two systems people that you have right there that they stay involved because things will get off track quick and make sure that there's internal checking that they're doing their job they say they did a two-week schedule where is it and that there's a process in place well how are you doing you say your you know cost is good how does it compare against the plan you're off what are you doing about it you got to have people that be to be inquisitive and it can't that's something you can't do but if they keep the system people in charge and they report to the leadership and that leadership reports to you it will work if i could if i could commissioner in a previous life um sue and i would um you know this this uh bi-weekly schedule would then translate into a monthly plan versus actual comparison and each team would meet and report on what they did in that particular month and then that ultimately rolls up into your annual plan which then rolls into your program-based budgeting um and we would invite other departments um leadership to attend those meetings and so that would be a way to engage have have you attend those meetings i've tried to go to some of your invitations uh jorge um you use an expression three maybe four times called feeding the beast and you said we you'd observed cases where we were feeding the beast and the beast wasn't serving us um did you identify causal reasons why the beast existed all the reasons why i'm sorry you used pardon i didn't understand your question well you used a terminology called you said feeding you were feeding the beast eating the beast and i think you said that about four times yep i did um inside that when you found the beast did you any identify any causal reasons where was there a problem in the processes we have that put that beast there did you do any of that i think what happened my our understanding of it is that you've you purchased an accounting system and the accounting system you you purchased is a very good one and you're trying to take an accounting system and make it do stuff that doesn't do now you have an accounting representative here and they'll probably say it'll do it but it's been our experience that if you're talking about work tracking work and assets and making it work it's hard for an accounting system to do that it's not what it does so what's happening is you're trying to do it and you're loading the data secondly for some reason they can't get the data out of the system now that's probably a training issue but there's nobody in the the department can pull the data out easily out of either one of these systems so that's a training or something issue and even your it department couldn't pull it out so it's it's either you don't have rights to it or it but surely you can get the data out of the system so first of all it may be the wrong system secondly is that you can't get the data out and that's when i talk about feeding the beast you just put money you put stuff in there but you can't get it out but they should be able to get it out even the accounting system you should be able to get the data out if you can't get it out you need to see the people who set up the system and say set it up so we can get the data out and we don't need to call you to create a report for us give us the capability to pull it out ourselves and that isn't happening at least that's talking to everybody that's what i got including your it department okay that's helpful um not sure i got an answer on that one but i'll find it uh that wasn't you didn't answer the question no you you told me um that it was a set of circumstances where it was either training or it was either not designed for the purpose that we were finding it uh needed wrong it's either the wrong system and you can't get the data the accounting system you still should be able to get the data out period whether you get another system or not you still should be able to get the data out so those are two separate issues but they could they compound the problem okay you've made 75 recommendations some are very complicated um being handed 75 recommendations what's the first step after you get the 75 recommendations uh maybe the first three steps as a a matter of fact they're in a uh they're in a somewhat of a sequence okay okay and uh the first ones are to uh set up some of the management process that that sue talked about first is you would identify those things that you do a lot of define what they are like for instance you're talking about streets you say okay we do pothole patching we do curb repair okay well who does that pothole patching who does that curb repair who what is the crew what would you expect that crew to do then you'd get the costing set up right get your overhead rates right get your equipment rates right get all the supporting information ready some of the stuff is slow hanging fruit equipment where you've got excess equipment you don't need for anything you can start working on that now you can start working on equipment that you don't need you that decision on the solid waste for in uh for that in the unincorporated area that's an independent decision but a lot of those in the system part they're in a sequence but there's a few that aren't in the sequence that are that are that would stand alone like the the solid waste one is a standalone uh the fleet you can start moving on optimizing the fleet and some of the but you need to set up a process because what you want to do is be able to plan the work you want to be to organize the work you want to be able to schedule the work and then you want to control the work and right now you don't have the processes in place that last slide uh the kill bring that slide up that uh you don't have that you don't have that you need to have that in place you need to have that in place and if you have that in place but you first got to set up the planning part and then after you do the planning part you set up the organizing part then you set up the scheduling part now you can continue on with what you're doing but right now you're just tracking certain things you're not doing many of these things are you doing them separated they aren't linked together it doesn't do there's no management system in place there's people systems in place that they try to make it happen there's good people trying to work with with a broken system thank you very much i'll say for rest for comments great thank you okay vice mayor thank you mayor wonderful wonderful presentation big fan of data and efficiency might have to go home and take a cold shower this is just wonderful um uh just you know i don't know whether i thank you to my colleagues they asked some wonderful questions um i'm going to try and phrase some of my comments in in the questions but you had mentioned um the amount number of vehicles and fleet that are just resting and so maybe we should look at at disposing some of those or doing something with them and i would suggest before we do that let's take a look also with the vehicles being used and it could be some of the vehicles being used are the ones that need to be disposed of and use the ones uh because i think there's just a human tendency and i've said it before from the dais why use a cushman when you can get an forward f-150 or why use an f-150 when you can get a 250 or why use a 250 when you can use a 350 and how many of those vehicles also have all the shovels and all the equipment and everything so you can basically grab any vehicle and do any project with it and if we go to something like this and we go through the scheduling we don't have to have fully equipped vehicles for anything that comes to mind and so that also goes along the lines of uh why you know 350 when a 250 will work or 250 get a 150 not that there isn't a need for comfort and i have all the support of our staff as i perfectly can i think that's kind of human nature especially when they have gone from building trucks not just for trucks but there's some insane comfort in the way they design trucks anymore um and dunnean really isn't that big they're not spending that much time on the road for all that comfort um and then also for uh the drivers that are only certified to um do uh one one they're only certified to drive one type of truck and the recommendation of maybe we should start hiring drivers that can are certified to drive more than one all three types and then the recommendation came back that well we would have to give some some time for those drivers to build that certification and i certainly agree with that but if we're going to do that then we shouldn't require that of new hires we should require that of existing staff as well so all our existing drivers that are only certified to drive one they need to start that process of the ability to drive three these questions uh i i just look you know i think you were transitioning i did i did transition thank you mayor for me back in i tried to give a little leeway you did you did and i but i did i i i did start out with going oh i'm struggling comments um i'm done you brought up some good issues though you brought up some good issues and one of the things that that is hard to forget is that we're suggesting that you got a group of independent people within the department that are going to review and equipment and equipment would be by the fleet person also by the assistant county director of public works and also by tanya who's assistant person because some of that stuff has to be looked at and the other thing is about the equipment type when you do those activities you break down what equipment you need to do that activity so and that would help do that so that's why you got to start off with first building the building block of what is it you do what do you use to do it with and that will help you figure that out and then that coupled with bringing in the persons that use the equipment like the public services one of the reasons some of they have low use equipment is they don't have enough people to use equipment okay so you got to be really careful we don't want to get get more people and they don't have anything from the drive so we got to be careful yeah so but there are other factors you have to consider but but so harry even harry even answered your question even though it wasn't a question but so it's good he made me he knew he knew how to get to it very good very good right well and i don't want to create the process so tight that the tightness doesn't allow it to function right it needs to be flexible enough you have to have the jobs some common sense in in this process and it's built in one thing um too in developing the plan the annual work plan um the work plan is um established on as you look at the activities on the classification of the of the it's not a person it's the classification of position and you look at what is the level that we need to do that particular task so you start out looking at efficiency right when you're developing the activity guideline then when you actually do the work you're going to send the person you have right and then that's going to track against it so you start comparing why did this cost us more or less um you can look at this is how we planned it was that the right thing did i have to have a skill higher and so i had to send this person or is it because i didn't have those vacancies filled and so it cost me more because i don't have vacancies filled with a lower paying position that could do that work so it is complex but it's really simple when you get down to it when you plan you plan to what resources you have in general categories when you track you track actual resources that you used that's how you find what can be improved and how do i do this better mr vice mayor you're exactly right so you have to build flexibility in it because look at that look what happened to you guys last year with these hurricanes so you can't say this is the exact number of pieces equipment right you got to have a little bit of flex in there because it's not like you're running a contractor shop here you're on the you got to respond to the citizens so you might need a couple extra pieces of equipment because you might have to deal with something you can't get that equipment so you got to be a little bit that's why on when we looked at the solid waste we said a contractor would use 25 and you're 100 we didn't go to 25 we went to 50 we think you need a little bit more than you would if you're a contractor you got to have the flexibility as you said and just to clarify i only brought that up because it was already suggested we've got vehicles that we aren't using and when they should dispose of so i was just bouncing off of that idea certainly i'm not implying that we get rid of any v every vehicle has to be used every day or we get rid of it no that's that's there's going to be you need the right tool for the right task that's what i'm saying thank you commissioner sandbergen so this survey make sure i understand facility services fleet management public services and solid waste correct approximately how many employees does that represent um it's about 72 positions so right now with our vacancies um 58 or 59 people so when we hear 75 recommendations should we celebrate that that's how great that was or should we mourn how bad that is i think we should look ahead and celebrate the improvement that we're going to obtain by looking and and that they want to improve and that they've commented that and provided ideas i think we should be celebrating okay and we've heard reference to the employee survey will we have access to that i'm very curious as to what some of the employees said i can answer that absolutely yeah the employee survey actually i just saw the final questions it won't go out until the beginning part of march so when we're complete we'll present it to you no you mean the survey that was done in the study yes it's part of the final report absolutely we we spared you the 150 plus page report as a part of the attachment but just like jennifer said yes the answer is yes and going forward not necessarily today but will we get to hear from some of the employees if you directly no no that will be communicated to you through the city manager's office okay all right you know and i uh you know the city's probably maybe a hundred years old i probably should know that answer but why now why are we implementing this or trying to implement this now it seems like as you know a year ago i was an outsider and i would you know it really looks like the city's well run and it is i you know if it's not broke i don't want to i don't want to break allow me soon thank you so okay um and that's a really good question it's a very good question and actually on our citizen survey um the the percentage of our citizens who view city services as as good or very good is i think it's 69 percent i'd have to i'd have to no higher than that 93 percent i'm sorry 93 percent view the quality of our services as good or very good and um but what we know is that our systems are very inefficient and in particularly in public works but in other departments as well there are areas for improvement in other departments and we're told this i'm told this during our um our communications my communications with the employees in terms of what harry heard we can be more efficient we can do more work if we're more efficient in the way that we work um we need to bring to them new systems and new processes to make them more efficient and the reason why this is the time is because we have the staff to do this because we have sue bartlett and jorge quintas and it's much the same uh commissioner as strategic planning we did not have the staff to implement until nicole delfino joined the team and those hiring as is jorge had opened up the conversation the reason why we asked sue to to leave for fly fishing in alaska and join us here is is in order to implement these this study to make that department more efficient and because we always understood that that there were areas that we can gain um efficiencies and i keep on saying efficiency but that's exactly what this is all about and i knew that from other cities that i had worked for and and jorge and sue knew that from other counties and other agencies that they had worked for so now is the time um in order to to bring it to you and then to to move forward implementing it so um and and i think that that now is exactly the right time because we've gotten through covid three hurricanes and whatever else and our employees are tired and they're ready for change in those terms um the fact that they are so enthusiastic in this particular department about this study and about implementing the study and going to implement it themselves before we're even ready to implement it before you've even seen it speaks volumes to their support of it as well moving forward you know before i would ever consider supporting something like this i have to really feel comfortable that it's going to make the lives of those folks sitting back there and sitting here better you know that's uh that's where i look at the way you know if we're going to spend the city's good money you know i'm really concerned and we have a positive return and it's all about those folks sitting back there and not just them the rest of the city staff also so i'm still a little up in the air but uh i appreciate all all your support or all your um presentation today thank you thank you um so um i've got a couple questions i i do i do ever since i got briefed i think of it as i think of everything this will be my only comment and i'll save every other comment for comments um but you know when you track what you eat you tend to do better and lose weight if you don't track what you eat you tend to lose control and you're just not as efficient with what you do and you know how you maintain yourself so it's a it's a it's a discipline issue i think so a couple things um excuse me so in order to fully implement this with these departments how long do we see that taking i'm good i thank you i appreciate it all right to get you can implement certain things almost immediately but to get everything in place takes about a year okay it's about a year but you can get improvements along the way you don't have to wait to the end of the year to get all the improvement but get everything working but it's like uh it's like uh concrete you know you pour the concrete and it hardens and hardens and hardens once you get it in place i've had so many experiences that once we leave more improvement occurs because the employees buy into it and then they start finding other things to that they can improve on whether it's spraying weeds or cleaning out channels differently or or they don't need three people on the crew they can do two people on the crew because they look at the productivity so after one year you can get in place but the real improvements start really happening after that because you're getting everybody aligned to use it to make better decisions but you should i think you should ask as and the commissioner sandberg said you should ask for what improvements are we getting i think that should be really a key you know if you're if you're spending this effort and time you're not getting anything out of it what good is it so you got to get you got to get improvements that's why it's important that that everybody knows that we've got to get improvement out of this so we're trying to look to improve so the employees know that their actions should be taken to try to improve they want to improve but then they can they can stand up in front of you and say this is what we did and i know in other places we work the employees came up here and said this is what we did because we don't do anything we just set a process that people actually have to do it but if they don't do it you're not going to improvement so but i think having them come up here in front of you and say this is what we did and here's how we improve and then you recognize them and save the city money and everybody wins so um the cost of doing this in a year is what the added cost i mean we're already spending about 150 000 but we see the savings um so can we pull up that slide that shows our net savings and and you also have a letter that i i passed out that also details this information i've got that right here so i just wanted to be clear because it looks like like i guess what i'm seeing is is it like 215 000 and it's for i just want to be clear because it looks like we need potentially a new software we need the maintenance of that software and how much is that and then how much is the cost of having here your firm continue to help us to train and do and get this right if you decided that to use our services and basically we know what needs to happen we estimated 135 000 and take us a year and the software we're making if unless we can make the existing software work which maybe we can we're estimating that if you went and bought an asset management software that mean you get rid of your accounting software just means you get a that it would be 150 000 plus you have to pay 30 000 a year as a uh that you have to pay to keep it updated so are we saying that 285 000 is the cost of potentially the software and your services and that's what the differential is between that 912 and that five nine seven it shows up in that graphic oh okay i got you i got you okay i'm with you okay um and that's on the back the last page of that letter it it follows along with the slide or the slide falls along with it actually um but that's good clarification so that includes implementation that first system process process improvement um and then again some of these are choices whether they'd be a savings and a cut or if they would be a reinvestment they're still savings but would they be reinvestment or allocation of cost is not going to save them city any money it's just going to declare it transparently and then some decisions about how that gets um supported okay so but again the 285 000 is the magic number that includes your help to get this done okay i just wanted to be clear about that and then my other question of course is if we do all this in a year um what happens with the rest of the city the rest of the departments and and seeing you want and i apologize you want to make a comment but maybe after my questions you can do that but sure absolutely um so so we want to fully implement this assessment in this program and then analyze the rest of the departments as far as implementation um so so first of all make sure we're up and running on this uh it's efficient it meets our needs um test the employees you know survey the employees and then i would like to look at other departments of the larger scale departments to implement as well so is it too early of a question to say if you got a year to do these departments what about the whole city the timeline for that so it is too early um i'd much rather talk to staff about that and and present a timeline to you that that i've vetted with staff and i guess part of that is making sure like it all actually comes together and works and saves us money right okay yeah um okay um i guess that's really only the only added questions i have for right now um okay um okay so we're going to go to well a couple things i know the city manager wanted to make a comment overall about the report and then we're going to get our final comments and direction um but we do have one commissioner with a hard stop at noon so we just want to be cognizant of that because i'd love to finish the issue before he has to leave um so um uh jennifer if you could go ahead thank you mayor and i'll just take a couple minutes thank you for your time thank you for the opportunity thank you very much great question by the way and i think i think commissioner sambergen asked a very very good question as far as why now um and i i think that as an organization it's always the the right time to improve um and as we as we embark upon the next chapter essentially of our our our strategic planning process and how this work effort is going to flow up into that we'll eventually be able to create objectives for employees in terms of their two-week work plan did you accomplish 95 of things on your two-week work plan and eventually all of the employees each and every one will be able to understand exactly how it is what they do contributes to the to to our goals in in our strategic plan so this is really the very first step toward streamlining that to become the organization that that we need to become to stay competitive for our employees and to to deliver our services to um your customers and your constituents in the way that they expect that we deliver those services that said i realize that that this is a very crucial moment actually i feel for the city itself because this is a departure from the normal operation standard operations that that we have been using if you will for a hundred years we've been reactionary in the public works department since i got here and probably way longer than that and so this will change all of that it will change the culture within this department and one thing that that harry said i believe it was is that if we are going to fail it's because of leadership and i will tell you we will not fail sue has my complete support in implementing this assessment and ensuring that we are successful at the end of the day are we going to implement all 75 recommendations maybe not there might be some that we won't be able to implement properly or fully or whatever you know times change or a condition will change but that said and it's very similar to deployment of the strategic plan um if it won't fail on my level um depending upon your uh vote today uh and i'm hoping that all of you will support this um we will provide you quarterly reports on our progress and sometimes we may not make that much progress but other times we'll make a lot of progress and keep you in the loop as far as as um and what we're able to to attain and then in a year come back during a workshop and and report out fully on how we've been able to implement that implement this but i think it's really important for me to say and and for the message to our employees is that this is something that we need to embrace support enthusiastically implement um and i think we're going to be very happy with where we are in a year thank you mayor thank you okay so commission and any directors from your point of view um yeah we'll start with vice mayor thank you mayor um you know i think it's healthy for individuals and for companies to always take an opportunity to pause and to take stock and just kind of reassess where we are how we do things and so i am really in support of this i think it's wonderful um any concerns of costs i want to acknowledge that efficiency isn't just measured in how much money we can save right there's so many things are the employees happier are we setting the employees up for success i think is great uh 93 approval rating we get on our citizen surveys that tells me now is the time i don't want to wait until that survey says 40 and we go oh crap how did we get here so i think that 93 is an actual baseline and if we can institute these changes and make ourselves more efficient and maintain that 93 that that's where the success really is for both staff and the city so with that uh mayor i support this great thank you uh commissioner sandbergen if you turn on the news today government efficiency is a hot topic um i've said it many times dunedin has a lot of assets we have fancy buildings and fancy fleet of vehicles and garbage trucks but i really for i truly believe that the number one asset is our staff the people that run it when i was when i woke up one day and i decided i wanted to be a dunnean city commissioner i knew that this city was run by quality people that need to help me make decisions and i know i i'm very i'm not you know very concerned about our our spending going forward but i just got a hard sell by the city manager and i'll take her to her word and uh you know i've got to i mean i think she kind of kind of pushed me over to uh be a strong supporter and thank you for your presentation nan everything you do and or hey everything that you guys do and i fully am uh i wasn't sure this morning but i'm on board now great thank you commissioner um commissioner walker thank you mayor uh yeah i'm gonna you know our our number one asset our number one resource is is our is our employees our staff and uh i you know having having come up through a very bureaucratic machine i'm going to tell you that i've seen the benefit and the good of process evaluation um i appreciate the fact that you have provided us a very logical and comprehensive framework um the uh the key to success here is going to be the implementation tracking reporting the analysis and then the feedback into the process um the data makes sense and uh i i will say from you know my navy experience the things the things that we do need to avoid is is that the implementation process the execution of this could produce a beast all of its own and so i will also add what the vice mayor said with regards to some flexibility um you know you have to have a plan so that you've got something to deviate from and uh i am i'm fully in support of this um i i really do think the one last thing i will add to this is is that um you know we we looks it appears to me that we've identified some staff that will support the process but you know at the end of the day let's not forget this those particular individuals also have a day job so the help from which i'm assuming part of our decision here is to retain lac is that for yes for implementation yeah um yeah obviously their support is going to be critical to this so that's those are my comments thank you very much uh commissioner dugard thank you mayor um couple of three comments should take me about 45 minutes um as i um led several organizations there were times when staff would come to me and propose something that i didn't necessarily agree with but they did it with such conviction and dedication that i would go with it and to my amazement they were about on a batting average they were about 99 when it was something they wanted to do i'm sensing that this is something our staff wants to do which by the way does amaze me and so there i start with support but with two cautions first of all when you're looking at efficiency i happen to be familiar with a efficiency study done for north fork southern railroad the most inefficient aspect of north fork southern railroad was its tracks they were only used about 1.4 of the time during that period of time it had a train on it all other times it just sat there and so sometimes we have to be cautious about what is efficient because it has other implications to the ongoing of the business and that's one of my ammunitions and the other is an aspect inside this that talks about our unincorporated um that's a policy issue and how we approach the unincorporated is not just about the rates we charge and how much money at the end of the day we're either making or losing there's something a lot more important about that and that has depth to it about what we really have as our strategic plan relative to enlargement of the city and things like that so i have a caution there with all that being said i will give a vote in the affirmative before i make my final comments is there anyone in the public that wishes to come forward and speak to this issue okay seeing none i'll close public input um you know my final comments are um you know i've been around the track a little bit too with this stuff and um i've seen the good the bad and the ugly but um um you know this is an investment i think great job great presentation um great passion over here sue jorge employees um jennifer um and and i think passion you know you need the passion you need the belief you got to believe it can happen um so i can track this i can have a work plan and i can actually lose the weight yeah it's perfect so um but no it's true i mean again i know this city inside and out and city staff has always been the backbone and we've always been fairly lean and mean in my opinion and if anything we're our own worst enemies because we just do everything and we get tired and i think this is again you know there's certainly been efforts over the years for continuous improvement models um and it ebbs and flows and the difference is again and and uh commissioner walker said it implementation you know you got to have the buy-in from the top down you got to have the discipline to just monitor and track and follow and and and and really you know follow it through because it it takes time and it and and you know the initial input in it can see a lot of uh benefits later but again it's that discipline and staying with it in the implementation so and i think right now it just fits everything we're doing um we we've got a lot on the plate we expect a lot from employees who are great and they give and give and if they're even believing this that makes me feel even better because again they're seeing the benefits to them to making things better and ultimately that will bleed over to our citizens no doubt about it again true efficiencies our metrics it goes right hand in hand with our dashboarding that we want to do and we want that dashboarding to mean something we want our metrics to mean something so i think this is just an absolute key to that um so i um you i think you've done a great job and believe me i've seen a lot of bs thrown around over these issues over the years and i i believe i believe that this can work and we can be disciplined enough we have the top support enough including up here to make this work to be better for all of us our employees and citizens so um i'm very supportive i do think your involvement is key um and so i'm very supportive of what we need to do with that and obviously i absolutely think having the right software system in place to track is 100 key and that's where you know i always say caution caution you know my com comment about ponzi schemes and software these days but um so i won't get specific but again it is key to have the right system so i'm very supportive of this and um i i thank everyone involved in the project is um and i asked city manager is that what you need from us it is and we're very grateful for your support thank you good we have one minute before we lose one of our commissioners so let's um move on to commission discussion i didn't get any emails from anybody on that but does anybody have anything okay seeing no one we're going to go to city clerk update no update okay city manager update nothing mayor thank you okay and uh city attorney update no update thank you okay and then uh finally commission comments we'll start over here with vice mayor no comments uh commissioner sandbergen no comments okay um commissioner walker nothing for me okay and commissioner dugard i wish to use the 45 minutes that i uh no comments thank you mayor i do have one and that is we do have to deal with the june 19th city commission meeting so if you guys could make sure to staff could bring that back to us in some way since that is when it looks like the toronto trip will be and that will interfere with one of our meetings so if you could i did check and we have two items scheduled so i have department head meeting this afternoon we'll talk about it okay great and i mean we can yeah we can also well okay yeah just bring that back i don't know if you want to bring it back when we're going to be talking about meeting schedule overall uh march how about that yeah that might make sense so okay other than that um i have nothing else so anything good for the order if we're done meeting adjourned all right high noon