CITY COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING - Oct 09, 2025

evening, and welcome to the October 9, 2025 City Commission meeting. I'd like to call the meeting to order. We'll start with our invocation and Pledge of Allegiance, starting with our City Attorney, Jen. Let's begin this meeting by taking a brief moment of silence and reflection. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the Lord, of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Good evening, everyone. Before we go to our first presentation, I did want to say that here in Dunedin, our hearts and our minds are in Toronto with the Toronto Blue Jays. Mark Shapiro, the president, I would consider a friend. Of course, he has a place here. They work hard. It's so exciting for them to have gotten to the level that they will now be going for league championship. We are rooting them on all the way. And you'll see a few signs of that around town. If you didn't know it, this next year will be their 50th year as a franchise, as the Toronto Blue Jays. And at the same time, our 50th year as their spring training home, the only spring training home they've ever had. So they are in our hearts, our minds, and we are with them all the way. Go Vladdy. Go Springer. And sorry to the Yanks, but sorry. Sorry, not sorry. There's nothing else to say. Okay. All right. I'm just going to set the tone here for a minute before I call up some people for this first presentation. So you can see tonight that we're celebrating something that has defined Dunedin since its very beginning, our proud Scottish heritage. Our story began in 1885 when two Scotsmen arrived here, opened a mercantile, and petitioned the government to establish a post office. They chose the name Dunedin, the Gaelic board for Edinburgh, their hometown in Scotland. From that moment, our city's Scottish spirit began to grow. You can see it throughout the community in street names like Loudoun Avenue, Highland Avenue, Aberdeen Street, Beltreys Street, Braymore, Lock Lomond, Lake Highlander, and Sterling Heights, each one a proud reminder of our roots. In 1957, the Dunedin High School Junior High School opened, Dunedin Highland Junior High School opened, its name reflecting that heritage. Around that time, a local journalist suggested forming a pipe band, and a set of bagpipes sent from Scotland was donated to the school, sparking a musical tradition that continues today. When Dunedin High School opened in 1961, the bagpipe band became part of the school's identity. Just a few years later, in 1964, the City of Dunedin Pipe Band was formed, giving our young musicians a way to continue performing beyond high school. That same year, Dunedin became a sister city with Sterling Scotland, deepening our cultural connection. And in 1967, the first Dunedin Highland Games were held, an event that continues today as one of the longest-running Highland Games in the United States. In 1964, the Dunedin Council of Organizations also sought a unifying symbol for our city. Two Dunedin High School students designed our city seal, incorporating the clan Elliot Tartan to honor our Scottish roots. In 1983, the city officially adopted the Elliot Tartan as Dunedin's official Tartan. And in 2006, when the Dunedin Community Center was completed, that same Tartan inspired the building's design, from the decor to rooms named the Elliot Room, Aberdeen Room, and Edinburgh Hall. And tonight, that tradition continues right here in this chamber. Our city commission, using their own personal funds, have purchased kilts in the official Elliot Tartan. They wear them proudly at meetings, they will be, events, this is our first uncovering, so, and gatherings, representing Dunedin with dignity and pride. From two Scotsmen who founded this community, to the generations we've carried forward, its music, symbols, and traditions, Dunedin's Scottish spirit endures. And as we look to the future, we do so with pride in knowing that here in Dunedin, we don't just honor our heritage, we live it. And thank you all for being here. I really want to thank Vice Mayor, because he actually wrote this. He said, I don't think I could get through it, Mayor, so I'd like you to read it. But we're really all sitting here in these kilts tonight, because this gentleman, who is our liaison to the Scottish heritage groups, just wouldn't let it go. He just thought we really needed to do this as a unified commission, and including our city manager. And so we all did it. So we're just going to stand, just so you can see us. What do you think? So on that note, we do have a presentation to the City of Dunedin Pipe Band, and I am going to turn it over to our liaison, Vice Mayor. Really? I've got to follow that? Ian and Eric, could you please come forward? While you're doing that, I'm going to grab my phone. Maybe leave it there. That's fine where it is. I asked Ian and Eric to come forward as representatives of the City of Dunedin Pipe Band. And for those that don't know it, they worked very hard, and they went to Scotland, as they do every year, to perform or to compete in the world championships. And this year, they brought back the gold. They came in first place in grade two. Second place. Oh, stand corrected. You're number one in my heart, so that's where that came from, so I apologize for that. And Ian and Eric are piping and drumming instructors for the City of Dunedin. They teach the middle school, the high school, and several of the City Pipe Band, so they work very hard and are truly part of the Scottish culture and heritage in our city. So I thought it was just only appropriate that they come forward and just to be recognized and just say thank you, gentlemen, for the continued effort that you do for our city. So I appreciate that very much on behalf of the entire commission. I'm sorry. Do you want to say anything about the championship? Just a couple words here. The band actually traveled to Toronto, Canada in June and took a first place at that particular contest and went back in August to Ottawa, and we were our first runner-ups in the North American Pipe Band Championships. And this is the trophy from the World Pipe Band Championships, which is first runner-up for grade two. So very honored and proud to represent the city and be ambassadors for this wonderful community that we have, and thank you to the city commissioners and all the entire city employees, family, friends, the DSAF, everybody who volunteers to make this happen. So really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Eric? Eric? I'll second everything that Ian said, and just to add to it a little bit, we've been busy, obviously. We had a really successful camp at the end of June that had about 30 young pipers and drummers from the community for a whole week with members of the grade two band coming, working with them all week long, and classes to bring them along. It was really, really cool and a lot of fun. That was here in Dunedin, and many of those students are now working their way into the high school, into the middle school, and seeing those bands doing so well because of that work that we did over the summer is really exciting. Our grade four band is headed to Stone Mountain, Georgia, and next weekend, we're pretty excited about that they're working hard if you're around this weekend, I'm sure you'll hear them outside on Saturday and Sunday morning. They've got an extra practice gearing up for the big contest, and then, of course, we're gearing up for the Celtic Festival in November here, which is a massive fundraiser for all the band programs, the City of Dunedin Pipe Band, Dunedin Middle School, and Dunedin High School. So, thank you for all your support. Thanks for all you do. Thank you. I think we want pictures. Yes, picture, picture. Picture, guys. Any pictures? Are we okay up there? Do you want to sit down there? Up there's okay. Yeah. I'll just make sure everyone's head's getting bogged. Are there names on the trophy? Yeah. Is the City of Dunedin? We'll go. Okay. Thank you. Thanks to all the Scotsmen out there, Scotsmen, women. Okay. We're going to go to our next item. It's going to be citizen input, but before we do citizen input, I did want to talk to an item that is on the agenda today. It has to do with historic preservation. It is proposed to be tabled because of some conversations that are happening with the state and federal government. And so I'm just going to maybe, Jennifer, can you make a comment about that? Sure. Absolutely. Mayor, my comment's about five minutes long. Do you want me to wait until we get to the item or just a complete overview of where we are and how we got to where we are right now? I mean, we can wait to the item, but I'm okay. I can go ahead if you want. I would go ahead because I just think the tabled item, we're not going to, you know, a tabled item, we don't have anybody speak. And there might be one or two people that do want to speak even though it's being tabled and you'll have plenty of opportunity later. And so if you do, that would mean you should speak during citizen input because technically it's not going to be on the agenda, so to speak, because it's tabled. So, yeah, go ahead and do that now. Very good. Thank you very much, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Commissioners. Staff is requesting that the City Commission table Ordinance 2502 and the Associated Resolution 2313. As reflected in the staff report on September 22, 2025, the City Commission, the City received comments from the Florida Department of State Historical Resources Division regarding the amendments to the ordinance. Those comments were mostly perfunctory, but with the exception of one which stated, and I quote, The National Park Service has advised our office that 100% owner consent for historic districts is not consistent with the stated general purpose of historic preservation programs at the federal, state, and local levels. The Division of Historical Resources further stated that the aforementioned ordinance changes need to be addressed for Dunedin to remain in good standing with our office, and that's the state office. Now, I have had several questions, Commission, as to why the federal government is involved at all. So, the City of Dunedin is a certified local government, and we participate in that program. And what that means is that, well, the certified local government program was enacted as part of the National Historic Preservation Act Amendments of 1980. The program links three levels of government, federal, state, and local, into preservation partnership for identification, evaluation, and protection of historic properties. Designation as a certified local government, which we are, either as a municipality or a county, makes historic preservation a public policy through passage of a historic preservation ordinance, which we did, as you know, in 2019. The ordinance establishes a historic preservation board, which we have, a committee, to develop and oversee the functions of its historic preservation program. Since its inception in 1986, Florida's certified local government program has assisted in the survey, designation, and preservation of thousands of historic and cultural resources and helped to increase public awareness of historic preservation. Florida currently has 86 certified local governments who receive technical assistance and training and may apply for federally funded, certified local government subgrants and conduct survey planning and national registered nomination projects. Now, it should be noted, as the commission knows, and I'm not sure if the public knows, we do have a $500,000 grant from the state Natural Historical Resources Division for the renovation of our golf course, and that is still outstanding. We're looking to receive the funding from the state for that program. So we have participated in the program, and we have received funding, grant funding, from that particular program, so it is very useful. The Division of Historical Resources further stated that the aforementioned ordinance changes need to be addressed for Deneen to remain in good standing, and that's, quote, in our office. So in order to remain in good standing, they further stated that we cannot, we have to accept all of their changes. So the 100% owner consent was proposed by members of the historic, of the public, and was supported by the LPA and the City Commission on first reading, and so. We sent a letter to the state on September 26, and to the effect that we wanted a meeting with the national office, and we wanted them to allow for the 100% consent of the owners in order to establish a historic district for our ordinance and the amendments thereof. They were in the process of setting up that meeting with the state and the National Park Service and the City of Deneen when the government shut down in Washington, D.C. And we do know that the National Park Service has been furloughed. We don't know if they're laid off or will be or not. We're not sure. We're not exactly sure when those lights will come on. This was, as you know, this was a late-breaking issue for us. For that, I apologize to you, the Commission, and to those members of the public for having to put the brakes on the ordinance in terms of having had already gone through first reading. That said, we need to do the right thing and get it to the state and get their comments, and then get it to the federal government and get their comments as well. We don't feel, as staff, and I'm sure that you're going to concur, actually, the five of you, that we can continue with this ordinance until this issue is addressed to the satisfaction of the state government. We did state in our letter, which is attached to the agenda item, that it's either 100% owner consent or take out the district. That's their choice, the district provision in the ordinance. And the reason for that is that, very specifically, it was a request to the public. It went through the Historic Preservation Committee. It went through the local planning agency at first reading and the city commission at first reading with a 100% owner consent. So we're certainly not willing to give up on that. And so I just wanted to explain to those in attendance, and I'm sure the attorney will help me, that tabling means it is essentially set aside until we get our answer. And then once we have our answer, we will advertise the ordinance again and certainly put that item out on our social media and, as I said, advertise before it comes back to the city commission. That said, we don't have a date because I'm not sure when the national government is going to open up again, and even then, I'm not sure who's going to be in place to help us with this ordinance. So the ordinance that is in place right now, that was adopted in 2019, is a prevailing ordinance, and it will stay that way until we have an answer to this question and can put that before the city commission after advertising it. Thank you, Mayor. Okay, thank you. And again, we'll be going to that item, but it'll be strictly tabling. But I know some people out here are for that, so I just kind of want to hit it head on. And I had had the question, well, if I do have a comment, when would I comment? And so since we're tabling, we don't take comments then. I didn't want to cut people out if they wish to comment. Even again, you'll have plenty of time. It'll be advertised. There'll be public input to whatever we do. So I'm going to now open it up for citizen input. So this is for anyone who wants to speak to an item that is not on the city commission agenda, but it would also include the historical preservation issue. Okay, and name and address for the record, and you have three minutes. Good evening, Mayor, Commissioners, and neighbors. My name is Jenny English. My husband and I have owned our home at 260 Aberdeen Street for 41 years. I'm here tonight to voice my strong opposition to the proposal to create a historic district that my home and other homes should be part of, simply because the homes are more than 50 years old. I want to be clear. I value history, and I care deeply about preserving Dunedin's charm. But this proposal crosses a line when it comes to private property rights. My home is mine. I pay taxes. I maintain it. And I should have the freedom to make reasonable choices about how I care for it. If this historic designation is forced upon owners, it essentially transfers control of our properties to a board, a city committee, that does not live in our homes or pay our bills. That's not preservation. That's overreach. It would add red tape, delay projects, increase cost, and limit what we can do with our own property. No one should be told that because their home is older, it now belongs to history. Age alone does not make something historic. This process should be voluntary, not imposed. Let those who want to be part of a historic district opt in, but don't force everyone. Please, thank you very much. Thanks, Jenny. Appreciate your comments, and we hear you. Anyone else wish to come forward? Ryan? Hi. Name an address for the record in three minutes. Ryan Saunders, 250 Lynnhurst Street. First of all, I want to thank everybody up here. I think there's been a lot of engagement from everybody on the council, mayor, city manager, on this topic and this issue. We've got a lot of passion behind the historic district situation. I know it's tabled from the agenda tonight. And I want to come to you with a mindset of, at the last meeting, we heard a lot of people speak against this. I think there's probably been a lot of emails going out back and forth against this, against the concern of, even to guard in your own words in the past, the taking of rights when a city manager can initiate this. I think you're at a unique opportunity now, with the feedback that we've gotten from the state, to maybe stop this altogether. And the reason I look at it, too, is this is expensive for us to go back and forth. Over the past two years, we've spent over $37,000 in attorney fees and consulting fees just on this one issue of this ordinance. We know those fees are going to continue to go up as we go back and forth with the state in this piece that remains of the city manager being embedded inside of this ordinance with the ability of that city manager to create historic districts. So my thought is, I look at this and I'm conflicted and I'm concerned when we hear the message that the city is supporting historic preservation, historic resources. And then I look at the budget and I know how much has been spent on this and I know I see $22,000 taken away from the historic society in the budget for this year. And I think this is an opportunity to use this off-ramp and look at an alternative and say, this is not needed at this time. It's not wanted at this time. We can table it. We can kill it. We can be done with this and go on with our lives and put that money to what matters, what really takes away. We talked about Scottish heritage here tonight. I love that. I love everybody's dress in this. You know what the heritage is, is when that Scottish band walks by Lucky Lobster and the residents and those people visiting say, why are they dressed up like that? Why is Scottish heritage so important to them? It's the weddings that happen at Andrew Memorial Chapel that tell the story. It's not the forcing of the possibility of telling you, you have to participate in this history. You have to represent it. It's telling that story and spending the money in the right place. Take this as an off-ramp. Think of it that way. And I appreciate you listening to the comments of all of us that are out here. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate how you've approached this. Thank you very much. Anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Name and address for the record. Three minutes. Hi. Paul Gionis, 159 Beltree Street. You guys see me here a lot of times with Ryan and everybody else. I've spoken with a few guys. Some of you listen a lot more than others. My biggest concern throughout this entire process is that beginning in 2020, y'all started. Sure. Sorry. 2020, when y'all started, and it wasn't really you specifically, but the city began this process and they spent $25,000 on a survey and it was followed up by another $50,000. Once they got certified as a local government, the money was fronted by the city in hopes that we would become a certified local government and then get reimbursed those funds. And that happened twice. And during this time, Kim Lee Horn's been paid a lot of money. Our city attorney's been paid a lot of money to vet this. It's a ton of money. And yet, I can't find these surveys on the city of Dunedin webpage. And why not? I brought it up time and time again. There's three of them. It shows that there's 492 homes that are designated historic. And we all know that's a red herring because anything that falls within the geographic boundaries of these districts that all have an evidentiary basis behind them to get voted in, new property, new construction, things that are less than 50 years old, all of these will be subject to the Historic Preservation Committee deciding whether or not whatever somebody wants to do to their home, be it hurricane hardening or repair a water leak or paint their garage door a different color, will have to come and find if somebody wants to find out if it's appropriate or not. That's insane. And I think the reason that you guys, not you guys, but for certain people who will not post these surveys is because you don't want the public to know. Because the public will lose their minds. Because people will look in there and see their own homes in there and realize that this is all part of a greater plan to create a master historic district plan. And as I've spoken to a lot of people here, y'all didn't know. Like, y'all did not know about this. It doesn't even seem like you knew yesterday when you were talking about it, Mayor Freeney, with Ryan. So put it up there. You weren't there, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Let me finish. But put up the surveys, put up the ordinance, let people look at it. Tell them what you're going to vote on. Don't hide it from them. Let them see it. And if everybody wants strangers to be able to dictate hurricane hardening and repair to their homes, then so be it. Let the populace decide. But otherwise, let us know, especially if you're going to spend all our money on it. Thank you. Thank you. And just so everybody does know, those things were in inventories of the homes that we do have that could potentially voluntarily want to come forward and become a historic home. That is all it was. There is no conspiracy theory. There is no targeted historic area that we are going to put on people. So I just want to make that clear. That's fine. Anyone else wish to speak? You had your chance. Okay, anyone else wish to come forward and speak to any issues that are not on the agenda or regarding historic preservation? Good evening. Jim Calgar, 2092 Valley Drive. How is everyone this evening? Hope you're all doing well. What I have to say does not apply to the historical issue. I'm still having problems with Cedar Creek, the ditch behind my house. I don't know what y'all call it. Cedar Creek, Briar Creek. I don't know. But I'm curious. What's the cost to either replace or pipe that ditch? What would the cost be? How much money is going to be allocated to the Cedar Creek project? And what's the amount? And when is that going to take place? And I believe the last meeting, the commission voted to approve a purchase of a fire truck, wasn't it? That could be one of the recent meetings, I think. I'm not sure. We just had our budget, but not the last meeting. At a cost of about $900,000? Yeah, I'm not sure, Jim. Well, I know there was talk about those issues with the vehicles. But my question would be, wouldn't it be cheaper to retrofit one of those trucks? I know the truck is eight years old. You know, my truck's going on 12 years old. And I don't have any issues with it. But I know that they were talking about new pumps and this and that. Those things can be all retrofitted. We don't need to spend a fortune on something that is half or much less the cost. And a couple of the commissioners had expressed an interest to come out to my house and take a look at the situation with Briar Creek. That's yet to happen. Just come up, knock on the door. I'll give you my phone number, call me, whatever. And I'll take you out for a guided tour. But we all need to accept responsibilities for our actions or inactions. And, you know, the commission, you guys do a great job, but we need to step it up a little bit more. And from my situation, I'm still in mediation with whoever about the cost of underpinning my home. And again, that was almost $32,000. The crack in the wall in the bedroom is going to cost me another $12,000 because they have to remove all the block. And that's all got to be rebuilt. So I'm coming out of pocket a lot of money for something that's not my fault. And I really appreciate if the city could do something about it because my insurance company does not deal with earth movement. And that is a major issue on that piece of property. So thank you. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak on an issue that is not in the agenda or is historic preservation? Okay. Seeing no one, we'll close citizen input. And I'm going to go to consent agenda. So we have approval of the minutes for the 8-5-2025 workshop, 8-6-2025 budget workshop minutes. We have board and committee appointments, architecture review board, board of finance, committee on environmental quality and sustainability, Edgewater Drive advisory committee, store and water advisory committee, then 2C award of a general engineering consultant services authorization task assignment to CPH Consulting, LLC, in the amount of $150,000 for planning and designing services for the Josiah Heffes-Weaver Park shoreline improvements project. 2D is approval to utilize the City of Dunedin participant agreement with Tetra Tech Inc. of Pasadena, California, a Delaware corporation for debris monitoring and management services for city drainage channel debris clearing and hauling efforts per Pinellas County Cooperative Contract RFP number 22-0601-PJ in the estimated amount of $136,380. Is there any, are there any items that wish, anyone wishes to pull? Okay. Seeing no one, can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. Second. Okay. I'm going to say Walker and Commissioner Sandberg. Okay. And let me ask, is there anyone in the audience who wishes to come forward to speak on any item on the consent agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, I will close the public input, and all in favor of the consent agenda, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. And motion passes unanimously. Okay. We're going to go to our action items, and what I was going to suggest, gentlemen, is that maybe we want to go to the historic preservation tabling items, just to kind of put that to rest so people that are here know that that's completed. Would anyone, is everybody okay with that, to move those forward? Okay. So I think, help me out there, Jennifer, would it be 3C and 3D? Okay. So second reading of Ordinance 25-02, amending Chapter 111 of Land Development Code Historic Preservation. And again, staff is requesting that Action Item 3C, Ordinance 25-02 be tabled until further discussions have concluded with the State Historic Division and NPS. Is there anything else? Do you need to read anything? No. Okay. So can I have a motion to table? So moved. Second. Vice Mayor, Commissioner Walker. Okay. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Okay. So moved. Second. All in favor of tabling? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Those two are completed. So. All right. We will then go back to the first action item, which is first reading of Ordinance 25-02 and staff is requesting the Action Item 3D, Resolution 25-13 be tabled as this item is complimentary to Ordinance 25-02. Could I have a motion to table? So moved. Second. Okay. Mayor Gow. Second. And so all in favor of tabling? Aye. Aye. Aye. And any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Okay. Those two are completed. So. All right. We will then go back to the first action item, which is first reading of Ordinance 25-07, Amendments to the City's Floodplain Management Regulations. Jen, could you please read Ordinance 25-07 by title only? Ordinance 25-07, an ordinance of the City of Dunedin, Florida, amending the City of Dunedin Land Development Code to comply with Section 163.31795 and the Florida Building Code by repealing Section 105-21.2, technical amendments to the Florida Building Code Residential, repealing Section 105-21.3, technical amendments to the Florida Building Code Building, repealing section 105-21.4, technical amendments to the Florida Building Code existing building, and amending Section 105-42-10.1.3, terms not defined, providing for applicability and severability, providing for conflict, providing for codification, providing for an effective date. That was Ordinance 25-07, read by title only. Great. Could I get a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Commissioner Walker, Vice Mayor. And I go to staff presentation, which I'll turn to Joey and George. Yeah. Good evening, Mayor, Vice, Mayor, Commissioners. Thank you. George Kinney on behalf of the Community Development Department. Seated to my right is Joseph DePosco, the Floodplain Administrator, who will walk you through a short presentation and answer any questions you might have. I will just quickly mention that the LPA did consider this item a few weeks, about a month ago, and did recommend it unanimously to the Commission. Thank you, George. Yeah, Joseph DePosco, again, on behalf of Community Development. And so the ordinance you're considering here this evening really just does a few things. We'll call them somewhat housekeeping items. The first one is you have to bring our ordinance in compliance with the new law that went in effect on July 1st of this year with regard to substantial improvement or damage. I will tell you, just as a way of background, I mentioned this at the LPA. As a matter of operational practice, we've been doing this since July 1. This is really just cleaning up our code to comport with that requirement. But essentially, we no longer can have the five-year cumulative, whether it be for substantial improvement or substantial damage. And so we have been and we will continue to look at each project on its own singular merit without any kind of a look-back period, as it's called. And so in also doing that, we had an opportunity to do some other housekeeping items that are mentioned in the staffing. Essentially, we had, as a city, we were a little forward thinking about 10 years ago, and we put in a required one-foot free board for development in the floodplain. That was, you know, something we did that was above and beyond what was required by the Florida Building Code at the time. Since then, that has been part of the Florida Building Code. It's been actually part of the code for quite some time now. Excuse me. And so we don't need those technical amendments anymore. It's a mandatory enforcement requirement now that you go at least one foot above the base flood elevation. And then the final items you'll see throughout the definitions is cleaning up the reference point. There was a change in where you referenced definitions in the Florida Building Code. There's a particular Chapter 2 is where they're all housed now. So we cleaned up those references throughout the ordinance where definitions made reference to the definition in the Florida Building Code. And that's essentially what the ordinance does, and I'll be happy to answer, of course, any questions you may have. Okay. Questions? I'll go. Commissioner Walker? You know, this does very much appear to be a housekeeping process, but I'm just curious in terms of the forcing function behind this. Is it just because the Florida Building Code essentially changed, is that what's driving this? With regard to the substantial improvement or with regard to the elevation portion? Elevation portion. Yeah. So essentially, as I mentioned, you know, 10 years ago, that would have been a requirement. That would have been what's considered a higher regulatory standard. Now that higher regulatory standard is baked into the building code. So we just don't need our local amendments any longer. Yeah. Okay. Yes. That answered. Thanks. Okay. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. This is probably not related to what you're trying to clean up. But it is an issue relative to what's going on in the area of substantial damage. And I noticed that in the underlying portion on page nine, it talks about market value as the driver on this. And market value changes after a storm. And because of that, that seems to be a moving target to me. Because right now I have knowledge of some people who have restored their home and now find themselves in a situation where they're being evicted. Now that's not in our particular community, but it is in an adjacent community. And if we're going to use market value, that market value is a moving target. Is it market value before the storm or after the storm? Tell me about market value as it's written in there. Sure. And that is not a city or state standard. That's a federal standard. The term market value when it comes to substantial improvement is simply defined as the value of the building excluding the land prior to the start of the improvement project. So the day before, for example. When it comes to substantial damage, it's the value before the damage occurred. Okay. So it is really not a moving target in that regard because what we found last year is, you know, obviously folks who were faced with the review under the 50% rule, they had to get, where they chose to get appraisals, they actually had them assessed the day before the storm. That's the market value point, pre-damage. Thank you. That's very helpful. That's all I have, Mayor. Okay, great. Vice Mayor. No questions, Mayor. Okay, great. Okay. Commissioner Sandberg. You know, if I could just ask you a couple other questions about flood, not so much along with the ordinance, but, you know, one year later now, you've seen a lot of homes go for sale. If a home has multiple flood claims, could that deny coverage going forward? I mean, could a flood insurance carrier say we're not going to insure that house for flood if there's multiple claims? I'll be honest, I don't know. How about any type of a clearing house where if I was going to go buy a house, I'm new to the area, I can find out any prior flood damage, anything like that? My understanding is that insurance, it's been my understanding for a long time that an insurance agent could look up the claims. Okay. If they were filed through a flood claim, then they're a matter of public, a matter of record. Okay. And the amount of claims that were filed from 2024 with our storms, is there any possibility that could affect our CRS? Is that community rating? Isn't that based on prior loss and vulnerability? Could that affect our homeowners going forward? It should not have an impact. In other words, it shouldn't denigrate our ability to garner credits. The only thing, really, that will probably change significantly is the number of what are called repetitive loss properties. Because, obviously, we had a lot more properties that were hit that may have been hit in prior years. Because repetitive loss is two flood events within any 10-year rolling period. So, it's possible that that number goes up, but that's not going to be detrimental to us as a CRS community. Okay. That's all I had. Thank you, Mayor. Okay, great. And so, I just wanted one question. So, on the substantial improvement, the look-back period, basically. So, look-back period doesn't exist anymore. That's correct. So, does it exist even for, I know when we did it, we were exempting anything from a storm, like right after a storm. Anyway, it doesn't apply, though. It would not apply to either a substantial improvement or a substantial damage application. So, it would simply be, there is, in the state of Florida now, no participating community in NFIP can have any kind of a look-back period of any period of time. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. Okay. I don't have any other questions. I will open it for public input. Anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Come on. Name and address for the record. And you have three minutes. Hi. My name is Alinda Matida, 4526 Azulway. Thank you, Mayor and City Commissioners, for allowing me this opportunity to present to you tonight. I'd like to speak on agenda item 3A. My name is Alinda Matida, and I am a student in public administration at St. Petersburg College. I had the pleasure of meeting with Assistant Director of Community Development, Joseph DeVasca, who I'd like to thank for explaining this agenda item and answering my questions. Based on our discussion and my review of the materials, I am in support of this agenda item. On July 1st, 2025, the Florida legislature passed Senate Bill 180, creating Section 163.31795 of the Florida statutes. According to this new state law, local governments that participate in the National Flood Insurance Program, like the City of Dunedin, may not adopt or enforce an ordinance for substantial improvements or repairs to a structure, including a cumulative substantial improvement period. In other words, cities are no longer allowed to track and add up the cost of building repairs or improvements over several years to decide if a property counts as substantially improved. The city follows the Federal Emergency Management Agency's, FEMA's, 50 percent rule, which means that if you either improve or if your building is damaged and you need to repair it, that you can only spend up to 50 percent of the structure's market value before you have to bring it up to the current flood standards. So, if a building's damage is greater than 50 percent of the value, you'd have to bring it into compliance. With the current ordinance, which is cumulative over a five-year period, you would look at previous permits that were issued and you would add the total together. However, the new law prohibits this practice, so the city can only look at each improvement or repair individually, not commutively over time. Since Dunedin participates in the National Flood Insurance Program, the city must comply with this new requirement to remain in good standing and keep residents eligible for federal flood insurance coverage. To comply, Ordinance 2025-07 amends the city's floodplain management regulation, making several important changes to the city's land development code. It repeals the three sections 105-21.2, 105-21.3, and 105-21.4, which contained the city's previous floodplain rules, including the cumulative improvement period. It also updates definitions and technical references to go with the Florida Building Code requirements and FEMA's floodplain management standards. Even though the city would be removing the five-year cumulative rule, it will continue strong flood protection standards. For example, buildings in flood hazard areas still must be elevated or built at least one foot above the base flood elevation, helping reduce damage and protect property owners. This ordinance is about the city of Dunedin complying with the state law, aligning with the Florida Building Code, and staying eligible for flood insurance, all while protecting the community from flood risks. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one, we will close public input, and I will go to Commission comments. Maker, the motion was Commissioner Walker. No additional comments. Thanks. Okay. And Vice Mayor, seconder? Yeah, I just kind of feel sorry for Joey. I mean, the number of nights that he would try to explain freeboard to us. And, you know, I'm going to miss those conversations. That's my comment. Okay. Okay. Commissioner Dugard, final comment? Unless I can question Commissioner Gow about those conversations, I really have nothing to say. Okay. And Commissioner Sandbergen? Nothing to add, Mayor. Okay. I don't have anything to add either, and we need to go to roll call vote. Commissioner Dugard? Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen? Aye. Vice Mayor Gow? Aye. Commissioner Walker? Aye. Mayor Franey? The application passes unanimously. Okay. We will go to 3B, which is application LUPZO-2025-0001, land use plan amendment and rezoning request for the property located at 1050 Main Street. First reading of Ordinance 25-08, land use plan amendment from retail and services to residential low medium. First reading of Ordinance 25-09, rezoning from form-based medium, FXM, to mobile home, MH. And so just kind of making everybody alert this item is quasi-judicial. Therefore, request City Clerk to go ahead and swear in anybody who intends to speak on the application. Okay. And does anyone up here need to disclose an ex parte contact for the record on this item? Okay. Seeing no one. Okay. Jen, please read Ordinance 25-08 by title only. Ordinance 25-08, an ordinance of the City of Dunedin, Florida amending the City of Dunedin future land use plan as adopted by Ordinance 20-01 on certain real property located at 1050 Main Street, parcel number 26-28-15-0000-230-1500 with designated meets and bounds and totaling approximately .53 acres to assign a residential low medium RLM land use designation and providing for an effective date. That was Ordinance 25-08, read by title only. Okay. Can I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Commissioner Sandbergen, Commissioner Walker. And I will go to staff presentation. Joey. Or George. It's all Joey. Well, good evening. Thank you again. So if you don't mind, as we normally do, I'm going to do one presentation, obviously, on both ordinances for the purpose of this application. So if I could just give a little bit of background on the application itself. For the record, it's application number LUP dash, excuse me, hyphen, or I guess that's slash ZU dash 2025-0001. It's a land use plan amendment as well as a rezoning request. That is the request and petition here this evening. The applicant and both owner is the Golden Acres RO, which is resident owner of Resident Owned Association, Inc. They're represented by Jonathan James DeMont, who's the attorney who's here this evening. The street address of the property is 1050 Main Street. And the property size, as mentioned in the title of the ordinance, is just over a half an acre. And what you have there, the image to the right, is an aerial image where you can try to put some landmarks in there. You could recognize this property is sort of tucked in behind Regions Bank. And it is adjacent to the Golden Acres Mobile Home Park. And then there's also a restaurant there on the corner that probably most people know about. And you see the property there. So the background, based on the request, and again, what I've provided to the left is an overall map of the mobile home park, which is just over 23 acres, including this piece. And then there's an inset or an enlarged view where you can see the property itself. And from a background standpoint, they purchased this property. The owner purchased it in June of 2020. And in 2023, the existing residence, which used to be on the property, was demolished. And the property has remained vacant since. What you'll notice, which is a little unique about a site like this, which was under separate ownership at the time when the house was there, is that it's essentially landlocked, meaning it does not have access from either Main Street or Robin Hill Lane, Robin Hood Lane. So essentially, the only access you can see it in the inset there is from one of the internal private streets from the mobile home park. And that's where the previous owners would access the site. And so that, you know, it makes sense that it's sort of part of the park from that perspective. So the applicant wishes to unify the property with the existing balance of the park by changing the land use and the zoning to be consistent with the mobile home park itself. And it is proposed to be a common area. I'm sure the applicant's attorney will speak with regard to what the details of that intent is. But our understanding is that it's going to be common area and that no additional mobile home parks. There's a difficulty in trying to add parks to a site like this. And I think the attorney will speak to that a little bit further. This is that same overall aerial view. But then you'll see the inset is just sort of a street view. You can see at the end of that B Avenue street, that internal street. You can see the vacant but fenced property. Moving to the land use amendment, of course, the applicant's asking to take the existing land use of retail and services, which is a it's a mixed use. It does allow residential. It's a I'll call it a much more intense use than the proposed RLM residential low medium. Um, staff finds that the request is certainly consistent with our land development code as well as the countywide rules. And so, um, we don't see any objective objection to that at all. As a matter of fact, this would certainly be sort of a down zoning in land use, uh, for all intents and purposes. And to the right there is the mapper. You can see currently the red is R and S and of course the proposal is to have it match the grid, the, I guess the beige or cream colored, uh, RLM property that the mobile home park shares. And this is just a side by side of what ordinance 2508 would do if adopted, which is essentially taking that retail and services, which allows, you know, retail, commercial, office, a myriad of commercial uses and more intense uses and a much higher density at 24 units an acre. And essentially changing it to the RLM, which is a residential use, uh, strictly and the density drops down to 10 units an acre, which again, significantly, uh, a significant decrease. Moving to the rezoning, again, the applicant wants to match the park, which is mobile home. It's the green on the map and they would like to, um, at the same time, uh, what from a staff standpoint we do for rezonings, we do have a section of the code where we, where criteria is laid out. There's seven items that are reviewed. Staff has done that analysis and believes the request is, of course, meets that criteria. So we, we have evaluated it and certainly support the amendment, uh, from FXM to mobile home, which would allow essentially just mobile homes and the associated accessory uses that would go along with a mobile home park. Typical recreational uses. Again, here's that same side-by-side current zoning of form-based medium. I'm sure everyone on the, on the commission is aware that is a mixed use, relatively intense commercial mixed use. And then we're going to the mobile home, which again, as I said a moment ago, mobile homes and the associated uses that would go along with mobile homes. So again, a down zoning. So having said that staff does recommend, um, approval, uh, of both ordinance, ordinance 2508 to change the land use plan category, uh, from R to R and S retail and services to residential low medium and, uh, ordinance 2509, uh, to change the zoning from form-based medium FXM, uh, to mobile home on the city's official zoning map. As George mentioned, um, on the, uh, in his comments, the LPA did consider this, um, on September 10th and voted unanimously to recommend approval to the city commission of both ordinances. And then lastly, as you know, when we have a land use amendment such as this, where you're going to a different category, whether it be a down, sort of a down, uh, land use or not, it still has to go to the county. And so if adopted here this evening on first reading, staff will transmit it to forward Pinellas. We're able to go through a series of meetings and then both ordinances would be brought back, will be re-advertised, uh, and then we brought back for second and final readings, uh, potentially the near the end of the year. But if from a timing standpoint with holidays, perhaps early next year. And so with that, I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have. Okay. Any questions for staff before we listen to the applicant, attorney, anybody? No, no, we can come, we can come back and ask. Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's good to hear all of it and then, but it's up to you guys. Yeah. I was just curious on the process. Um, so, you know, assuming approval from us tonight, it goes to forward Pinellas and what do they do with it? So forward, forward Pinellas would, would accept the application and they're sort of the, the conduit to get it through both the, what's called the planners advisory committee. That's, that's an internal to them with, with local planners, then the forward Pinellas board would look at it and make a recommendation. And then it goes to the county, uh, the county commission acting as the countywide planning authority. And once those three meetings are over with and it's been, been approved, then it would come back to the city commission for second reading for second and final reading. And, and we will bring the, as I mentioned, we will bring, we will put the, the zoning on hold and we'll bring both of them back, uh, together. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Anything else? We'll, we'll just, and then we'll have a round, you know, who can ask whoever. If you, if you want to come forward, I think you look like you're ready. So just name and address and. And Kimra Haashev, this is Misha Jonathan DeBont. I'm the attorney for Golden Acres Mobile Home Park. I have with me today, William DeBont, the newest member of the Florida Bar and Tammy Davis, the president of the homeowners association and her husband, Mr. Davis, and one of the board members. So I'm requesting up to 10 minutes speaking for the group. I'll try to keep it shorter than that. I don't think we actually have a restriction on that for something like this, right? It's in your, it's in your decorum on page one. No, you're, you're good. But I mean, in your situation. So this is Golden Acres Mobile Home Park on Main Street. And the mobile home park, just to give you a little bit of the history of how we got into this mess, in 1959, Walter and Roberta Horton bought the property along Main Street. And they bought all that property along Main Street, what's now not only the mobile home park, but also the commercial property along the frontage there. And in 1963, they built the house that's on the parcel that we're concerned about, which is this little piece down here. And it's been a residential house since 1963. And they lived there continuously for the rest of their lives until Roberta passed away in 2020. Between 1968 and 1971, they built Golden Acres Mobile Home Park on its current location. They sold off the frontage property along in here, along Main Street, which is now zoned commercial property. In the mid 80s, the city rezoned the property. And for reasons that are lost to the sands of time, their residential property got included in the commercial zoning. Frankly, that never should have happened. It was residential since 1963. It should have been zoned residential. But for some reason, it got lumped in with the commercial property on the frontage. It just stayed that way. The Hardings apparently never noticed. I believe Mrs. Harding would have been in her late 70s by then, probably when that happened, and probably didn't notice. In 1986, the Hardings sold the property to a REIT. I believe it was Broadway out of Pennsylvania. And they kept the house in here and continued to live in the house. And they had a license to go through the park at that time, which is how they got in and out of the park. Because as staff said, there's no connection to an outside street. In 1992, the REIT decided to sell the park. And the residents exercised their rights under 723.071 Florida statutes of the Florida Mobile Home Act that gives them the right of first refusal. And they bought the park. And they converted it to a co-op, which is very similar to but not identical to a condominium, in the sense that everyone who lives there owns a share in the co-op. The co-op association still has the underlying ownership interest in the land. But they all have recorded 99-year leases and a membership. So it works essentially the same as any other homeowners association. In 2006, Walter Harding passed away. Roberta transferred the property to her trust. She lived there. Actually, in 2015 was the last time there was a zoning change. That's when it was changed to its current zoning of FXM, which is commercial. Even though, again, it's been a residence since 1963. In 2019, Roberta passed away. And the homeowners association had the opportunity to buy the property from the estate. And that was only logical because the property was landlocked. In December of 2022, the house being very old and not in good condition was demolished. And the residents are still have it as vacant land. Just because it's still sitting there as commercial property, we've already filed a unity of title on the public record. We've already had the property appraiser convert the park to a single tax deed. So it's being taxed as a single property. We're doing this so that they can decide what they want to do with the property. It's been mentioned. Can they put more mobile homes on it? The answer is no. If they wanted to put more mobile homes on it, they would require 100% consent of every one of the homeowners there. And frankly, you couldn't get 100% of the owners there or any other homeowners association to agree to the time of day, much less to dilute their interest in the property and reduce their vote for voting power. So that's not going to happen. What is under consideration, put forth to the membership, and when they come back in a couple of months, is they're looking at things like, well, first of all, it's already green space. I think that most of it will probably continue to be green space. They may put picnic tables on it or barbecue or some other kind of amenity. They may use some of it as overflow parking. But it would be definitely an amenity. It would not be used for anything other than part of the common area of the community. And so that's why we're asking for the zoning change. And if you have any questions or if you'd like to see the map in the file, you'll see my full title opinion letter. I ran a full title opinion on this. I provided all the backup documentation of every deed, every easement, every transfer of the property going back to 1959 when the Hardin's bought it, as well as our title opinion. And our zoning application is in there, which contains also an explanation of all of this. You are thorough. That's good. Top of left. If you could just stay there for that. So we'll go questions for either staff or the applicant. I'll start with the Vice Mayor. Thank you. Mayor, you know, this is pretty clean and simple, at least for me. I get it. But the question is, and this is just historical reference, when did they build the mobile home park? Between 68 and 71. Do you know what it was before mobile home park? Mostly vacant. Actually, the Hardin's ran a plant nursery on most of the property. The plant nursery was on the frontage on Main Street at the time and well back into the property. I've looked at some of the old aerials. It's hard to tell whether it took up the entire park, but the park was either vacant land or a plant nursery. That's what I remember it as. Yeah, it was mostly a plant nursery from 59 until 68. Thank you. Did you used to play on that property or something? Oh, yeah, I'm playing on that. Commissioner Sandberg. I think you answered about future plans, green space. Is that okay? Amenities, you know, possible overflow parking. Other than that, they would use it for a recreational area. Okay. Was there any, I would assume the neighbors would have had to been notified of these changes? That's correct. Was there any concern, any questions from the neighbors? No. We have a bank on one side. There's a house that sits in the other. I know Robin Hood's pretty close there. Robin is close by. On the other sheet, there is a piece. I believe it's a large house that sits in the back on St. Christopher. This piece is carved out. That's residential right there. Okay. But no, on the other side is Golden Crest Mobile Home Park. Right. And they have no objection to it being a mobile home park. They're one too. Okay. The last thing was that I thought it was interesting that address is 1050 Main Street. If somebody was looking for that, I mean, I may not be, I think you know where I'm going. Yeah. I mean, somebody put that in their GPS. They wanted to find 1050 Main Street. They're going to end up in the parking lot of the Regents Bank. I just, at one time that must have been before Regents Bank. That address would have went all the way to Main. Well, apparently the post office knew where it was. They delivered their mail to Mrs. Harding. So that's all I had. Very, very nice presentation. But I just thought that was interesting by that number. Thank you. Okay. Commissioner Walker, questions? Yeah. I actually had that same question on 1050 Main Street. So I think that pretty well covered it. Thank you. Commissioner Dugard. No questions. Thank you, Mayor. Yeah. I don't have any questions either. So, so we'll thank you for coming up and. Top of live. Appreciate it. Okay. And now I'll just open it up for anybody else in the public that might want to come forward to speak on this issue. This would be your time. Okay. Seeing no one, I will close public input and I will go to commission comments starting with Commissioner Sandbergen, who was the maker of the motion. Nothing additional, Mayor. Okay. And Commissioner Walker. Uh, nothing additional. Okay. Uh, Vice Mayor. Uh, just thank you. I, it seems to be a great use of, of space to keeping, uh, green space and just to add amenities and maybe some overflow. So thank you for not adding a whole bunch of concrete. Appreciate it. Uh, Commissioner Dugard, final comments? Uh, amazing presentation. Well prepared. Thank you. Yeah. Great walk down history. I like that. So yeah, I don't have any comments either. I just, I think it, that sounds great. I mean, it sounds like something you need to do and good for you. So, uh, so I'll go to roll call vote. Vice Mayor Gow. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay, so now we'll go to the kind of co-one, which we've already had the presentation to. So, uh, Jen, if you could please read Ordinance 25-09 by title only. Um, Ordinance 25-09, an Ordinance of the City of Dunedin, Florida located, I'm sorry, Dunedin, Florida zoning certain real property located at 1050 Main Street. Parcel number 26-28-15-00000-230-1500 with designated meets and bounds and totaling approximately .53 acres to mobile home, MH, and providing for an effective date. That was Ordinance 25-09 read by title only. Okay, and again, this is on the rezoning part of it, could I have a motion? So moved. Second. Okay. Commissioner Walker, Commissioner Dugard. Uh, we've already had staff presentation. Anything else to add? You're good? Okay. Any questions? Okay. I will open it for public input. Any public input on the rezoning part of this? Uh, okay. Seeing no one coming forward, I'll close public input. And I will go to commission comments. Uh, maker of the motion is Commissioner Walker. Uh, no further comments, Mayor? Uh, Commissioner Dugard? No comments. Vice Mayor? No comments. Commissioner Sandbergen? Nothing additional, Mayor. And I don't have anything additional either, so we go to roll call vote. Commissioner Sandbergen? Aye. Vice Mayor Gow? Aye. Commissioner Dugard? Aye. Commissioner Walker? Aye. And Mayor Franey? Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. Um, so do we want to take a quick break before we finish through the agenda? Do you want to keep plowing through? Wait, do you guys want to, do you guys want to take a break or, Rob, did you, what were you saying? You want to keep going? Keep going? Keep going? Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Here we go. We've got a key approval of agreement with Crowder Golf Joint Ventures for debris removal from city drainage channels with grant funding from USDA, Natural Resource Conservation Service, Emergency Watershed Protection, not to exceed grant funding in the amount of $1,378,275, and we have staff presentation. Boy, I've got Sue, Clay, Michelle, Trevor, and Camille. Holy smoke. This is it. But it looks like you two are on. Well, we left. Yeah, over here. You spread out. Sorry. Yeah, we spread out. We let Camille go home. You're everywhere. Okay. So we're very happy to be before you tonight, you can tell, because this is a large project that actually in the workshop, I think it was Commissioner Sandbergen that I heard say, it's been 52 weeks since the storm. And we feel it. We know it. I actually hesitated when I said it to him. Thank you. It's hard because, yeah, so many people are still going through it. But this is part of storm recovery. This is where we're asking for approval of the agreement that we have with Crowder Gulf Joint Adventures, Adventures, Inc., for debris removal from the city drainage channels with grant funding, which is hence why Camille was on, from USDA, NRCS, the National Resource Conservation Service Emergency Watershed Protection Plan Program. And a not-to-exceed amount for that grant for $1,378,275. So this is to clean up the debris that's in starting at, there's maps attached to this agenda item. There's an overall map. Thank you, Clay. As well as some focused in maps so that you can see the areas, again, more closely. We will be starting, if we have your approval, we'll be starting in the Curlew Creek, you know, the outfall, and then working our way through. We will not be able to clean our entire drainage basins and all the canals, but we will get a good head start on the worst areas. We've done a survey over the entire area to define the areas that we can hit with this amount of money, just for reference, the amount of budgeted for this cleaning, you know, a normal budget year is $250,000. And again, this will give you an idea how we're going to go as far as we can with removal of the trees and the debris that would be blocking water flow. I know that there's been a lot of citizens that have come before you and requested that they have this done. Of course, we can't do all of it. I'm saying that very openly. But we will communicate what we can do. And before we go out there, we'll communicate with them. You have seen this contract, this agreement, as well as the one that you approved earlier with Tetra Tech, which is monitoring the work, which makes us eligible for the grant, just like FEMA. You have seen this before for our debris removal, and this happens to be the same contractor that performed the debris removal successfully for us and in record time. They also offer these services through that same contract. This has been through legal review multiple times, multiple different legal, but we do have the approval and through the agencies. Of course, there was a lot of coordination through the grant agencies at the federal level. Initially, we received the grant, and then everything was put on hold. So we had a couple of months worth of waiting to see if the money would be released, and it has been. So we'd like to get started and get this work done. It shows you that the money has been budgeted in Stormwater Fund. It is a reimbursement, so we will take it out of that fund and then be reimbursed with that award for the grant. Again, its companion is the Tetra Tech monitoring. We must have that monitoring in order to be eligible for this reimbursement. Do you have any questions? Okay, questions. I'm not sure where I started, but I'll go with Vice Mayor. Thank you. Sue, on the map, and you might have said this and I just missed it, what is the difference between blue and brown? And I see the words there. I just don't. What is water body extent? So when we submitted for the grant, we had to identify the areas of the creek that would be impacted and where debris would be removed, and that's brown, the red, brown, yes. And so what is water body? Well, that's Curlew Creek. If you look at the overall... I'm just... It's the terminology, I guess, or label, or... The creek, or... No, I just don't know. If somebody mentioned water body extent to me, I would have no idea what that word, phrase, sentence means. It's the extents of the creeks themselves. The banks of the creek and the water below. That is the extent of the water. I mean, we had to define, as you can see, it's very wandering. It is actually the creek itself, the Curlew Creek. A lot of these properties, they own to the middle of the creek, and so it was, we had to, we have easements, and so we had to define exactly which, we can't go outside of these boundaries that we defined when we submitted the grant. Does that help? It does. It does. And with the cleanup area, and you might have mentioned this, how were they prioritized? Which one gets... We went to the outfall first, as far as order, but that's where Trevor comes in, and Michelle. Trevor's been out there, you know, with the help of engineering, too, and they've been identifying where the most debris was, where the greatest blockages were, and the most homes were affected, and that's how they've been prioritized and identified. And is there a list of those? Yes, there's actual segments. We have a list, but that's why we did the blown up maps, where you can zoom in, and then we have, we will direct the contractor on site as to where to go and what to do. And we actually have, I said, drone video, and then we'll have after pictures, too, because that's part of the requirement to validate it. Well, that process is very thorough. Very. I certainly understand that. And, yeah, so Jim is here, and I'm sure that he's looking at this. So, is there a way for the residents who are along the brown portion, the designated areas, are they, where are they on the list? Is there, is there anything going out to them? Are they first? Are they last? Are they number 19? Are they? Well, because we will start at the worst, and then we will, you know, continue to see how much, because it's by line item, by how amount gets removed, we will be notifying the residents that were coming into the area before we get there, and why we also put the maps on this agenda item to let everybody know. And, of course, as they call, we have calls. We have a log that we've been getting back with people to say it was on the agenda tonight, and now we can get a schedule. Once we have an award, we can get with the contractor, and they will propose a schedule, and then we'll be able to convey that to our citizens. Okay. So, you know where the worst areas are first? Yes. And so, from those words, I mean, can you at least identify those? For the number of residents that are impacted by this, will they be able to know, not necessarily the day you're coming, right, because that depends on what happens before, but they know they're number five on the list? They know, and not they, the Gabion. We can, I don't know about numbering them, but we can provide an area that we'll be coming to, and then we also have, with our GIS, we'll be pulling all the properties. We'll be sending them to the contractor addresses and sending them notification. So, they will know before we get there. Depending on what the schedule is for the contractor, I mean, we can work ahead of the, you know, the contractor several weeks. If not, I mean, hopefully it doesn't, it might take a couple of months, but we'll, we can work ahead in a couple of week chunks to make sure that we're not getting ahead of ourselves and notifying somebody that we're going to come and then we don't come. We have also gone into some other areas and done what we can with our equipment so that there are other areas that we've cleaned up and been able to get the trees out. But we, we've prioritized these and we'll get what we can. Miss, Miss, this, this gentleman here, this is in the open ditch areas to be clear and not necessarily in the Gabions. We're not going to, this does not involve, this particular project does not involve anything to do with the Gabions. If there are trees there that need to be cleared because they block drainage flow, they may be removed, right? And if they're in this brown area, they'll be removed. But we really have, the Gabions is a whole different subject. Now, is Gabions a different subject? Is it the Gabions themselves and the stability of the Gabions or the fact that there's no debris in the Gabions? Yeah, that's correct. There's no debris. It's the flow line. This is all about the flow line and the water. And so Gabions are the banks. And again, the bank, the only thing we're removing is vegetation and debris from the storm in this project. Right. Yeah. Okay. And, and again, you might've said this, but when's an approximate start time? We, once we receive approval, then we'll have a notice to proceed with the contractor and we'll meet with them and we'll set, that'll be a pre-construction and then they will give us a date to start. They're ready to start, but we'll, we'll have to have a meeting with them to proceed and give them notice. So we'll do that as quickly as possible. Is it sometime in November, maybe? Oh, yes. No, it'll be in October. In October. Okay. Very good. Okay. And about how long will it take? Guestimate. I know. It'll take a couple of months. Okay. To get through it. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Commissioner Sandberg. We said a couple of months. I was really thinking a couple of years. First, I want to say how I'm really excited about this project. I'm not sure I've seen, I've really, I've really paid attention because as you know, Michelle, we had someone whose backyard backed up the city and lived in unincorporated county. And I know I drove you nuts because he would have his daily, if he missed a day, it was every two days he would call me. This is big. I mean, this is a big project. So when we, we're going to hire Tetra Tech. Yes. Okay. Well, Tetra Tech take citizens that are uptight and have questions so they don't, wouldn't be calling me to go on to Michelle. Will Tetra Tech deal directly with these property owners if necessary? Not likely. We will, we will be the ones dealing with the citizens still. And again, Martin has been, you know, a lead on this with Trevor in Clay's shop. And so he will continue to be involved, right? Yes. That's confirming. Does Tetra Tech, did they bring in their own crew or do they subcontract locally? I don't know. Clay, do you know? I'm not a hundred percent sure on that answer. We can, we can ask them and find out for you though. And we're talking about a lot of debris coming out of there. Where are they going to, what are the, you know, it's not going to be a lay down like we had before. What are the plans for all of that? That is correct. We, we, this particular project, we are not going to have a, a site where we take the material. This will be direct disposal from wherever they remove it. Okay. So that's what monitor, that's what Tetra Tech will be monitoring the quantities and making sure that the trucks are certified. And then at the disposal site, we, we have approved disposal sites. So when they're in there, there's vegetation, there's downed trees. How about, they find trash or any other concerns that may be blocking water? Will they take care of that? Or is that not, is that outside the scope of what we're hiring for? Any debris related to the storm will be included. So trash would be part of that. What they can't do is reestablish, like dig out of the creek that will have to come after. You have to clear out the vegetation and the trash first. So that's not part of this. Okay. And my last, you know, so they're in there. I mean, they're going to be, they're going to be in some deep trenches and ditches. I'm assuming there's some pretty heavy vegetation. I understand now that they will not take and talk about or fix the, the gabion he's talking about, but if there's rip rap issues, will they at least note them, map them so that we can address them? What are our plans for that? We, again, we're going to be working, you know, Trevor's going to be the project manager. I mean, we'll be working hand in hand. We'll see it every day. Um, if, if Trevor hasn't already seen it, um, if it's, but if it's blocked by vegetation and we can't see it, we've had a great working relationship with Crowder and their superintendent. So I'm quite sure that they would make us aware of anything that we didn't see right off, but we will be marking, marking those because it's our maintenance. We'll, we'll be coming back either with projects or with different equipment to take care of what needs to be taken care of there. Mayor, that's all I had and I'm very excited about this going forward. Great. Um, Commissioner Walker. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, so that $1.3 million grant, have we heard about that way back in February? Why, why did it take so long? Well, uh, it, it, you know, it's federal government. We, um, we were put on pause and, um, really that's why. And we were put on pause and we had, we, we found this. I mean, we looked at a lot of different contracts, frankly, at the beginning, trying to find, uh, someone who would even bid on it and, you know, looked at going out to bid. But, um, then we found that we could use this instrument and, um, it was acceptable to the agency. So, um, all that was taking place, um, before we got put on hold for the funding. So that's why it took a while to begin with, plus the surveys and the, you know, things like that. So, but really, we've just been waiting on the funding to be released and then get it on the agenda and move on to you guys. Okay. Did you want to contact the federal government about that delay? No, I'm about ready to do more than contact him. Yeah. Yeah, nobody's answering the phone, right? Yeah. But we're glad we have the $1.3 million from them. Yes, we're grateful. So, hey, we don't want to pause it again? Do not, do not get me started right now. So, um, yeah, there's so many things. Never mind. Um, the, uh, just, just to confirm something, uh, Commissioner Sandbergen brought up a point. Um, so Crowder Gulf's actually doing the debris removal and Tetra Tech's doing what they do and that's the monitoring and metering? That's correct. Okay. Um, now the other thing is, so on the map and just for point of clarification, um, what, what is the water body extent area? Is that basically the inflow and outflow tidal action or? So the water, that's, that is the entire extent of Curlew Creek inside and outside of the city limits. So that's why if you see the blue area, um, west of Belcher, that's part of the extensive Curlew. Um, and then the other thing is, is some of the areas, excuse me, like in the Solon area, um, and just a little bit north of 580 that's blue. Those are some of the open ditch areas that didn't have a lot of vegetation in them. So it's sort of the extent of all of the different creeks throughout the city. It just shows you where the body and the creek itself runs. And then the, the brown area is just where the debris is low. The, the vast majority of the debris is located. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm looking, I should have been, uh, more specific. I'm looking at the Cedar Creek area. Um, cause I, I will, I will suggest that, uh, if you were to ask the residents of North Douglas, they do not think the problem is to the north and east of them. Um, so I, I'm just kind of curious as to how that part got selected because what I've seen is the, the water that comes up from just east of Pinellas Trail and, um, well, to the, to the south of Curlew Creek. Like in that water, whatever we're calling that thing, the water body extent area. North Douglas actually is not impact. This is not an impact to North Douglas. They have a completely different issue. Um, and it is not about blockage or debris in, um, in the creek, but it does impact other people. And, um, also drainage from other tributaries that go out to the outfall. So, again, we targeted areas that were impacted, where damage was from the hurricane, and it took down vegetation and trees that we can't get with our maintenance, um, equipment. Um, you mentioned that these were prioritized. Where, where is Cedar Creek on the priority list? Trevor? That would be third priority. We started with Curlew Creek, then Jerry Branch, and then Cedar Creek due to the amount of debris that we, when we, we sent out crews, two-man crews, three-man crews, and we inspected all of these creeks. They walked, they were in john boats, they were in kayaks, and they took photos, and, you know, we saw this debris down in the area. Between the resident calls, we pretty well targeted between, um, Curlew Creek, if you can picture, um, Sturbridge Court area. Followed all the way back east to Cedar Road 1, and then passed it to where Jerry Branch comes up from the south from there, Jerry Branch south from there. And then, um, a lot of the twists and turns that go through those areas is where a lot of the debris ended up getting caught up through. We cannot access those with, I mean, it's just limited with our equipment, and there are no areas for us to, you know, go in through. Um, and then we were going down to Cedar Creek through there, um, the, what is that, the south end of Hammock, where it's the GeoWeb Gabion Walls there. Um, not Gabion Walls, the GeoWeb Walls through St. Catherine Drive east, and it, it ended up, it ends up going north and makes a left turn for Channel A for Cedar Creek. So there's some debris there, nothing really hindering the, the flow. A lot of it's just caught up in itself, um, and then we would go through Spring Branch. Spring Branch is pretty well wide open, so there's not really hardly any issues there, so. And to add on, our, our assessment was very comprehensive. So we used a drone to fly the different watersheds, so Curlew Creek, Cherry Branch, and Cedar Creek. And we also had, as Trevor said, staff actually go in and actually, you know, observe and take pictures of existing debris and vegetation. No, I, I, yeah, appreciate that, because that, that sounds pretty comprehensive. Um, the other question, so what is our, what is our metric for success on this? Um, you know, we've, 1.3 million dollars, prioritized areas for cleanup. What, how are we, how are we defining the scope exactly? Water flows. We want the water to flow, flow freely in the water. There's a flow line, and it needs to be clear enough to flow. And we need to have anything that was hurricane related in damage that gets removed from the creek. Later, again, we, we will have, um, more work to do. It's not all the work, but, um, that's, that's the goal. So, the monitoring from Tetra Tech, they'll be looking at what they remove, and that we're in compliance. NRCS will also, they have already had people down. They will come back, too, to look, to say, okay, you only took out what, what you said, and you removed it, and you disposed of it properly. Water flowing is a great metric. I appreciate that. Those are all the questions I have. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. Um, my colleagues have posed a number of good questions. Um, there's a rate change in here. Is this why this is coming back to us, the rate change, or? No, no. The rate change is just part of the contract. We wanted to make sure that we brought that as part, as part of the legal documents. Um, that was included in the contract. It's like, you know, the CPI. There's an increase in the rates. So, no, we brought those amendments that happen normally back to you now, because it's part of the contract, part of the agreement, current agreement. Is this outside of FEMA, reimbursable? It, it is outside of FEMA. It's possible we could apply for FEMA, but we, we can't now. We, we're taking this federal fund, funds instead. So, we did claim, and this is on our sheet of damage, right? That went to the federal government, and we continue to update it through our finance, and finance has been very supportive and helpful in this process, too. But, um, when we accept the money from, um, from natural resources, it's going to, we, a national resource, we can't, we can't go back after FEMA. I mean, it's 100% here. So, you know, if there might be some other areas. So, this is a reimbursable through another federal, federal grant. Correct. Okay. Um, what is our timeline on completion? You know, actually, I was going to ask, um, if, Clay, do you know what the contract timing is? I know what Crowder has told us, but I just didn't know, no. Yeah, it, it'll be, we, I mean, we will start, as soon as we, um, if we have approval, we'll have the notice to proceed, and we'll meet with the contractor. And, like I said, they have already confirmed they're ready to go. Um, and they were, were really quick to mobilize during, um, the event for, you know, after the event for debris removal. So, I, I believe them that they will be here, and that we'll get started in the next couple weeks, if not sooner. I have no more questions. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. I just have about, you know, 10 additional questions, because you guys just didn't cover it all. Now, I can't think of one question that has not been asked, so you guys are thorough. I do have a follow-up. Oh, okay. Well, I don't actually have a question, so you can ask a question on my behalf. There you go. Yeah, Commissioner Walker talked about Cedar Creek, and, uh, and I'm, I'm looking north of Hammock, where it runs through and outflows. There are a lot of mangroves there, and I was always under the impression that we couldn't touch those mangroves, and that, and that actually the overgrowing of mangroves is, is a concern in areas, and I think they're. So, how do we, how do we get around that? Are, are we allowed to touch the mangroves, or? I can, I can see Michelle's ready to answer. Yeah. So, regarding mangrove trimming in Pinellas County, if, specifically for that area, because it is a stormwater pond, you can actually remove the mangroves as part of the maintenance of that pond, if it is obstructing any flow. So, so, but it's heavily regulated in other places, but because there is specifically, yeah, like shorelines, but specifically, there's a stormwater pond there, so we have to also maintain it. And because it is tidally influenced, therefore, there are mangroves. But you can remove them, there is a special permit to do that, but it's because, for the maintenance of the pond specifically. Otherwise, if it is on a shoreline, it is protected. So, Michelle was talking about the stormwater pond, right? So, there are, as she said, regulations. We, we have the ability to trim mangroves in certain areas, but you were asking a very specific spot. So, I want to make sure everyone listening understands that we can't just go remove mangroves, but in this particular case, and in that spot, we can remove them. But overall, and let's say if the storm damaged and that mangrove fell into the creek, and it was a whole mangrove, which could happen, we would be able to remove it because it's storm debris at that point. But there are restricted areas that we can only trim, and, you know, it's not impeding flow, so we, we can't just remove them in the creeks. And certainly, yeah, I would be opposed to negatively impacting any mangroves, unless it were necessary. I mean, you've actually, you can see over time, when those mangroves have really taken over that section of hammock and really started to impede the flow. So, okay, thank you very much. Thank you, ma'am. I have one more, if you would. Okay, go. Yeah, you mentioned tidal flow, so I would presume that this particular removal would have the benefits of flow in both directions, or enhancing flow in both directions for tidal and drainage? For drainage, it's one way out, okay, but for the tidal influence, it depends on the tide, how far up it goes, right, how far it goes up the trip, up through Curler Creek and on. Well, with what we're dealing with, with sunny day flooding inside certain neighborhoods, that tidal flow heading up the other direction could be relieving to them. I'm just thinking, if it does encourage tidal flow further in a given direction, up the creek, it won't go on streets as much. Is that, am I just, is that just wishful thinking? I would say, yes, that's sort of wishful thinking, because when it comes to tidal flow, sorry, sorry to rain on this parade. It's sort of wishful thinking. Because when it comes to tidal flow, because there's so much water when it comes to tidal rays, as it all rises up, it sort of expands out in the area as it gets to that elevation. So if you're going up the creek and you might be getting a tree limb or a log out of the way, that's not going to really change the difference when it comes to tidal flow, because it's the mass of the sea coming in, whereas when you have stormwater flow coming out down the stream, that's a smaller volume and a smaller amount that's going in just this one area. It's not where tidal flow spreads out across the full, like, for instance, in Hammock Park and the North Douglas area. It all just rises up as one even, as they say, was it, tide rises to its own level. So, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. So you all have just proven a theory that I had, which is the number of questions is directly proportional to the number of staff that come in the expertise. There we go, everybody. We'll remember that, Mayor. Thank you. I used to be a staff person. I like to give a little advice in the house. No, interesting. And I'm glad we have good expertise. No, I was just going to say that was a highly scientific study you did there. Sorry. Exactly. How did I collect my data, right? Okay. So I will open it to public input. Does anyone in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? I'm shocked and surprised, Jim. I knew. Name and address for the record, though. Anyway, I have a photograph. I would like to show these folks. Is that okay? You can show them. Sure. Okay. This is Cedar Creek. Oh, we have to have you at the mic, though. Sir, Jim, you'd have to address the... Oh. Yeah, I mean, you can always call them and have them see it or send it in to them, but you have to address the commission. Okay. I do apologize. That's okay. The gabions in the center of the ditch has been damaged, and there's material building up underneath. And would this project be cleaning that out and repairing the gabion? And also, too, if you go straight back on this picture, if you go straight back, there's a lake back there. It's a small lake, but the ditch behind that it drains into is so overgrown, you can't get back there. I'd like to go back there and do a little fishing myself. But that needs to be cleaned out as well. And I was just wondering if that would be part of this project. And we can have them answer it after you finish all your comments. Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Great. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it. Anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on this issue? Okay. Seeing no one else, I'll turn it to you all. I think there were two questions there. And I think I know the one. It's not going to be repairing gabions, but did you want to clarify again for that? And then also the lake issues, though. Yes, first of all, the area that is at the corner where this home is, is blue, which is the extent, right? There's extent there, but that is not, there's no material to remove there. But you can see the rest, you know, is brown all the way around and down around the corner. So that is an area that we will clean out. But the area that I believe, I believe he's referencing is actually what comes into the ditch, not what goes out of the ditch, where there's a lake, a pond up on that corner, you know, that's not in this brown or blue. And actually, we've been out there quite a number of times, right, with clay, looking at it and seeing, you know, how is that discharging? Is it causing any problems there? We will continue to look at that, but there's no blockages or there's no, there's no debris to be removed on that particular area. And it is, water, water doesn't go from the ditch out to that, it comes in from there. And do you remember what the name of that water body was? I think I incorrectly called it something last time, so I won't repeat that. So don't get it wrong. But we are, again, assessing all the areas, and we will take a look at the area again. We had actually, Trevor had crews out there doing repair on those gabions on the far side. And so we'll just go back and look. We appreciate when somebody calls and says something is in the ditch because it's a lot to cover. And we do have reference photographs of what was there. So if something's changed, this will tell us. So we'll go back and take a look at that. We don't. You have to see, like, I'm looking at the map, the more detail that goes behind the houses of Valley Drive. And, I mean, so it looks like it covers some of that because there's brown. And then it's farther down. It's like the last map. And, I mean, I look back there. It seemed like there was a lot of debris in that, not just disrepair. But, again, it's been a while. So, but you guys are checking on that. Yeah. And we have removed some debris because we actually can access some of that. There was even, like, a sign down in there, a sign blank that they pulled out. We do have a limited, we have access there, so that's really good. But we have a limited amount of tools. But we've fished out quite a bit of stuff there. Okay. But you've got the spot highlighted, so, you know, you'll make sure. Okay. All right. Okay. So we will go to, I need a motion. So moved. Second. Okay. I think I'm going with Commissioner Walker and Commissioner Sandberg in his second. I was wrong. But you, your kilt's amazing, though. I'm loving this thing. I wish I could get my thing to stay like that. Okay. So, okay. So, Commission comments, starting with maker in motion. Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. General comments. You know, I am so happy that this is getting started because we have such an opportunity. This, you know, in terms of grants, this was a big one. And this is, I'm optimistic and I am hoping that this is going to solve a lot of problems. So, anyway, great work in getting this to this point. I completely understand federal funding flow and, or lack thereof. And, but let's, let's get this done. Let's get it done right. And let's fix the problems. Okay. Seconder, Commissioner Sandbergen. Nope. Big project for the best people in the world sitting right here working on it. And, and I know it's in good hands. It's big for the, for the citizens. I learned a lot on that specific resident that, that you and I dealt with. You know, you don't really understand it if it's not in your backyard. But then all of a sudden I realized, man, this is, this is, this is big. And then here, this is coming down the pipe. So, glad to see it. And I'm excited to get this one done. Thank you. I'll go next to the person that could have been, you know, the, the motioner or the seconder. So close. Vice mayor. Final comments. The longer we talk about it, the, the longer it takes to get this started. So let's go. Okay. Commissioner Dugard. The commissioner that didn't want to play the game. This, as, as someone that lives near this, I'm very pleased by what we're doing here. I'm, it's wonderful that we got this grant. I don't know who needs to be given all the accolades for that, but they deserve them all. The, there are, this is wonderful. Wonderful work. I, I doubt the citizens will ever really understand what we're doing, why we're doing it, how it's benefiting them. That's my only concern inside this, is, uh, those people that say you're not doing anything, and here we are doing exactly what needs to be done. That's all I have. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll jump onto that. I think that, um, you know, the basics of government are vast and wide, and this is a great example of, um, something that you consider very basic. You know, the people should, you know, we got to have the water flowing. We want people's, you know, we don't want people to have those issues behind their homes, and, uh, but it's, it's a lot of money, and it's a lot of work, but it's important. But, um, this is what we're here for, so, and we are grateful for the, for the grant to be able to get it going, so. Um, okay, so I will go for a roll call vote. Vice Mayor Gow. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Thank you very much. Okay. Unanimously plus, okay. Oh, that's bad. Oh, that was bad. I just, wow. We should have taken a quick break, I think, you know, that might have helped us. Yeah, right. Okay, we're going to go to the proposed agenda for October 23rd, 2025, city commission meeting, and everybody has a printed copy of it, and I think there is an action item addition. You want to kind of explain that? Yes, thank you, Mayor. Item C, uh, 3C, we want to, um, add an action item. It's a request to authorize the city manager to enter into negotiations with Pinellas County for a interlocal agreement for, excuse me, the city of Dinean participation in the regional resource recovery facility. Um, it's something that the county's been working on, um, for quite some time. They did some phase one planning. They have some, some costs for the, uh, uh, regional resource recovery facility. Um, this is essentially where we take, um, the solids that are generated in our wastewater treatment plant and dispose of them. Right. Biosolids. Biosolids. Jorge, I've got to say the right thing. Biosolids. Right. Um, so, uh, this plant actually would be, uh, in, operating in the next five or six years. So it's outside of the rate study that we just recently did. Um, we are going to recommend that the city commission authorize me or my designee to enter negotiations regarding the RRF. That said, I wanted to put you on notice that I, um, Barry had requested an answer by October 10th, which is tomorrow. So I'll send him a letter saying this is, uh, we've, uh, we've scheduled for the city commission agenda October 23rd. We are recommending that you authorize to negotiate. It doesn't mean that we're in, um, that consortium, if you will. It's, it's, it means that we can start negotiating with them for some, uh, solution to disposal of biosolids in the future. Well, so is there any place on the planet that you think we wouldn't authorize you to start talking? I mean, because why would we delay? I mean, we could, you can update us or something, but. Right. I'm just kind of wondering, is this so tricky that we might say no and. It, it is not. There is, uh, funding, uh, associated with it as far as operating goes and increase in funding as far as operating, um, in the next five or six years. Again, it's outside our rate study. But it is simply, uh, authorizing us to enter negotiations. So if you can do it here this evening, then that would be great too. Is there any reason that we can't? No. There's not. Asking the attorney to. Oh, sorry. So moved. Of course she's going to say no. Of course you can do it. Okay. No, you can do it. Okay, good. Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. Okay, and all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Oh, I've got questions. Okay. Okay. Very helpful. No? Okay. Uh, uh, motion passes unanimously and just bring us the update then. Yes, we will. Kind of explain what you're doing. You know, we're going to go ahead and put it on a workshop then. Um, that's fine. That's great. Coming up shortly. Yes. But thank you very much. That's very helpful. Thank you. Well, we want to be timely with the county. We do. So we can hold them that way too, so. Okay, great. Um, all right. Uh, so based on that, you're, oh, so, so you're not going to have it on this agenda. So now we will take that action item off. And, and put that on for a workshop. Yes. So we don't have to. Okay. So, so we want to, is there any other additions or changes to the agenda then? So we're going to approve the agenda without that added item since we've handled a different way. So do I have a motion? So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. And motion passed unanimously. Okay. We will go to informational items, commission discussion and comments. I'll start with, uh, Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, so yesterday, uh, I attended the PSTA legislative and executive committee. Um, and, uh, just, um, this is just more food for thought and, you know, just, just situational awareness. But it, uh, one of the concerns that their federal lobbyist, uh, had brought forward was, is the fact that during this government shutdown, um, the national flood insurance program is, is basically on pause, which means that anything, and of course the shutdown started at the start of the government fiscal year, and, uh, what that means is, is that in this period, um, there are no new policies, there are no claims being processed, and, uh, you know, I just, you know, I have to scratch my head on this because here we are, we're still in storm season, and one of our biggest subsidies, if you will, is, is not available. So, uh, I, I find that concerning, um, I don't know that there's a whole lot that we can do here, but I was kind of shocked to hear that, and, uh, more for everybody's situation awareness. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what that actually means. So, does that mean somebody doesn't get their policy renewed and a storm hits so they're out of coverage? That's right. I mean, is that kind of how your interpretation of it? That's my concern. That's crazy. In the past, I remember years ago, the ones that were more effective were people that were going to close, and they had a mortgage, and their mortgage holder required flood, but back in my prior life, when I owned an insurance agency, they would allow the loan to close because it wasn't the fault of the purchaser or the mortgage company, and then coverage would end up being effective on the date of the closing. So, they would actually backdate it because it was nobody's fault except the federal government, and so just to keep, keep the flow of the real estate market and mortgage market going. But it is very, very concerning, and the claims, I never thought of that right now. Yeah, so the, and the context was, um, it basically, and I, again, I don't want to be draconian in the approach or the, the gender, the delivery of this, but, um, there is a growing concern about this, just, you know, that particular aspect of it, and, and it was, it was obviously concerning enough for the, the lobbyist actually brought it up in, in a transportation, um, you know, legislative committee, so, uh, you know, hopefully, you know, we'll, we'll get through this, and everything will be okay. Yeah, well, thank you for bringing that up. Thanks for depressing us, right? Yeah, no. Oh, my God, it's like a little bit of a deal. No, no, it is, I mean, well, it's concerning, because it's everyday people, right? Um, okay, um, anything else? Please. Yeah, I know, uh, Commissioner Degard. Here's an informational item. Okay, Vice Mayor. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I actually have two items. Yep. No, are we under discussion or comments, or both? We're doing, we do both. We do both, okay. So, you, you got the floor, you got the floor. Yeah, uh, we've combined them, if you remember, on our list. Yes, yes, I just wanted to clarify. Yep. Uh, I, one is a comment, and I just wanted to acknowledge that the high school band went to competition last weekend, and, uh, they swept the field and got first place, and this is from a director who has only been in the position since last February, so he kind of was the janitor at the end of last year, and so this is really his first year, and it's his first school out of college, and he was able to turn the band around and do that. So, just real kudos to the band director, Mr. Savage, and the students, and they work hard that, that win was earned. They work very hard. Uh, the booster program is strong, and, uh, the parents on that board are positive and focused, and I, I only really say that publicly because in recent years, it hasn't been, and it's been a train wreck, and so it's just really, really nice to see, uh, the ship has been righted, and they're heading in a strong direction, and they look really good. And so kudos to the high school band, very good, real bands wear kilts, by the way. And my second one is actually, uh, more of a discussion, and you all got an email from me, and the middle school band, uh, is, uh, in the process of purchasing kilts, and what I really like about what they're doing is they're being smart, and they're being strategic, and they aren't trying to eat the elephant all at one time. Uh, they purchased kilts last year. They do it by sections, and last year they, they purchased kilts for the dancers, and this year they're focusing on another section, and, uh, I believe it was last year, uh, was, oh, I'm gonna be wrong on my number, but it was $16,000, I think, they're able to raise, and they're on target to do that again, but any help that we could get from us would be wonderful, and I know that we have, uh, leftover remaining in the budget, $5,000 on aid to org, and I know this year, as, through that application process, we were able to provide $5,000 to the high school band boosters, and so I was wondering if we could allow that same opportunity for the middle school to purchase kilts, and the other traditional kilts. Yeah, I mean, happy to get to weigh in, but the best thing, Jennifer, would you, if you could staff that and bring it back in terms of what money's there, do we know what, if it's obligated to anything else, and then we can make a good educated decision on whether that makes sense. I mean, if that's, does everybody feel that would be a good way to go, just to make sure we kind of know what we're facing with that money, and then, I mean, I think it's certainly has a, it's very meritorious, what you're discussing. Very good. Yes, we'll bring it back to the next City Commission meeting. Okay, so we'll add that action to the agenda, right? Yes. Yes. I don't have to make a vote, we can just have consensus. We can probably put it under a City Commission comments, or a City Manager's update, or, right. Okay, that'd be awesome. Okay, great. That's right, and that's the next, next meeting? Next meeting. So I can just report back to them and let them know the status? Yes. Okay, thank you. Yeah, thank you for bringing that forward. Okay, anything else? No. Okay. Commissioner Sandberg. I really appreciate the opportunity to participate in the walk to school. I met two people from the Dunnean Library that I'm not sure I'd ever met before, Kimberly and Jennifer, and I cannot say enough good about their personalities and their input with those students, and Deputy Skypack, the four of us had a great time. I really had a great time with those kids. And I appreciate being able to participate. Of course, with the Toronto Blue Jays, we're in touch with them regularly. Things are looking good. They're going back home now, and they got a little bit of rest. As a long-time Jays fan, I know that there's a chance that they would play against Seattle, and because we're in the state of Washington where it's located against Canada, that's not really a big home-field advantage to the Seattle Mariners because there's so many Canadians that attend those games. I'm not sure. I sure can't speak for ownership, but, you know, it's a good thing, and it's really fun to be the liaison and kind of find myself basking in it. And so that's the only two things I would have, so thank you. Yeah, and I think it's my understanding our new Rec and Parks director might be a Tigers fan, so that could be an issue. Well, I didn't know that when we hired him. Right, well, Vince was a Yankees fan. If we hired him, you know, what are you going to do? I know, I know. He's stupid. Right, he is. I'll reach out to him tonight. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, well, a couple things. I had a few things here. One is thank you, Vice Mayor, because I have to tell you, as we all sit here in our kilts, I'm proud. I'm proud, and thank you for encouraging us and pushing us and cheerleading us to do it. Because I'm really glad we did it. I am. So. And not only that, he sets the standard. Yes, say that again. And not only that, he sets the standard. The bar has been set high. I mean, you know how much money you've cost me, Jeff, in the last... All of us. Yeah. I am well aware. Yeah, these are not cheap, so, okay. So I wanted to say that. I, again, I, you know, I can't say enough with the Toronto Blue Jays. It's so exciting to be, you know, coming next year, their 50th year, and 50th year is our spring training home for them. And I just know how hard they work, you know, which is so exciting. And, of course, you know, I just eat it all up on all the, you know, the sports shows now. Because they're, everybody's like, they're so, they're so on it, you know. And so that's how they stay on it. And, but I think they're playing well. So hopefully they keep it up. A couple things. And, Jennifer, this will be something I'll talk with you all about. But at Forward Pinellas, the other day, they came at us with kind of a priority list for 580 improvements. You know, they did the big study about 580 improvements with FDOT. And then they were doing a priority listing of it. It was a lot to take in. But I'll tell you, it was a lot of stuff having to do with Dunedin. So we actually delayed the vote by the board just because everybody felt, you know, like it was a lot. And I, you know, I agreed because I wanted to make sure that we were all in sync, you know, staff, myself. And, you know, we were kind of talking the same talk. Even though I think at a lot of the levels, you guys were involved in that. And we've, we've been involved in some of those discussions. But since they're doing a priority list, I just wanted to, you know, if I need to fight for something, I want to fight for it early. So, so, you know, we'll talk about that. But I mean, it was good in the sense that one of the things they didn't have correct is they had a, they were intending to have a crossing by the affordable housing, new affordable housing project, but they had it up between Keen and Achieve Away. So they're changing that. I mean, that was just a mistake. They misunderstood. And so, but then there was another crossing, what I think at, by the Kentucky Fried Chicken Plaza there going across. So, again, there's a lot there. And I just, since they're prioritizing, I wanted to make sure we're involved with you. Then, very exciting, Clearwater, Dunedin Ferry. I think it's Dunedin Clearwater Ferry. And so I'm going to, I'm taking my hat and I'm doing a marker to put Dunedin Clearwater. So, and yeah. Deputy. Oh, Deputy Renee Aswan. Okay, good. Very nice. Very nice. Very nice. And, and the only other thing is, I don't know how much we talked about the Florida League of Cities sessions. And, of course, mine is finance and taxation. So, of course, the big one is property tax and what's going to happen with property tax. And so it was a great session. Next Friday, of course, is our second session. And I know some of you might not be able to go. Are you still going next Friday? Yes, sir. Okay, good. So, it might just be you and me, I guess, I heard. So, but anyway, I mean, it's, and I talked to Jennifer today because I think there's just things that we can do to make sure we're understanding our budget and all the things that property tax is covering. You know, which, of course, we know. I mean, it's not even enough to cover all our public safety needs, our sheriff and our, and our fire. So, but I want to do that because one of the biggest things that they talked about is if the thing gets on a constitutional amendment, we'll have a lot of restriction on what we can say. And so if we're going to educate people now, and all we're talking about educating people is to make sure they know the trade-offs. Because none of us, we would all like property tax to go away forever. I don't want to pay any more property tax. I hate property tax. But that's not the point. There's $60 billion to come into the state of Florida with property tax. And unless this state is going to take a lot of money from local government, much of which is spent on public safety, the service decline could be huge if there's not a proper supplement placement. I just was listening to public radio yesterday. And they were having a great discussion about it. And actually, you know, the whole argument about sales tax, could that fill in? And then that's a regressive tax. And you'd almost have to have 10 to 12 cents added to every bill. And how much would it really take? So, I mean, it's very complicated. And I think early, often right now, we need to be talking about it with our citizens only in the sense that to make sure they understand how tied those things are. So, but anyway, so we'll continue on that route. But that's all I have. But I'll end on a positive note. Go Blue Jays. Yeah. So, all right. Mayor, there's item A, School Transportation Safety Committee. Oh, yeah. What is that? To assign someone to the School Transportation Safety Committee. Yeah. Under City Commission Discussion. I actually didn't know what that was about. So, how do we usually do that? So, at the last City Commission meeting, Vice Mayor Gao asked that we put this before you to elect a person to attend the School Transportation Safety Committee meetings. He's unable to do so. Okay. Yeah, I had actually totally forgotten about that. We've attached the last agenda, which Commissioner Gao provided to us. Yeah. Did you want to add something, Commissioner Newgard? I would be throwing my hat in the ring on this one. Okay. That no one else is interested. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes unanimously. No, and sincerely, thank you for stepping up on that. I agree, because I do think it's really important. So, thank you. Mayor, I do have one more item. And don't say it if you don't mean it, right? Yeah. Well, then I've got to go to the clerk, and so go ahead. Right. Yeah. And thank you for that, Tom. And I've spent a lot of time tonight talking about our bans in the schools. But just wanted to, and I know that we're all aware of this, and I, what we can do about it, I'm not quite sure. But certainly the population of school-aged children is going down in the county. And so they are seriously talking about, there will be a need and a time to close schools. And we are safe for this year. We are safe for next year. We don't know what the following year, I think that's when the hammer is going to fall. So just to be aware, because schools are part of the definition of community. Sure. And I'm not optimistic. And so it's, I know that they're going to take a surgical look at it. It's not going to be, I don't like that school, so it closes. But sometimes surgical isn't the way to go because of the impact it has on community. And I am trying to reach out to them now to make some contacts and see if I can't get on some board or be included in some meetings about that to show them about the uniqueness of our schools outside of A grades, which most of them are. You know, our schools are stellar. But if you don't have the students, you don't have the students. And so I know that we're all kind of mindful of that. It's all public information. But we need to be mindful, we need to be concerned, and we need to be aware. So that's it. Yeah, thank you. No, it's a great comment. We really need to be thinking about that as a, you know, as we move forward. Some of the connections, you know, Jennifer, even, you know, like even a meeting with the superintendent, make sure we're kind of in the know a little bit so we can be thinking ahead of it. So, but that's a great, that's a great comment because you're right. And on one hand, good government is sometimes you have to merge. But on the other hand, it is completely part of the identity of your city. So huge. Okay. So city clerk update. Okay. There you go. Uh, city manager update. I just have a few updates. Um, so, so we actually, um, were, uh, up for an award in Golf Inc. Uh, for the renovation of the, um, of the golf course of the public municipal golf course. And we got it. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Very nice. Renovation of the year 2025 public from Golf Inc. And that's, uh, one of the major, uh, magazines, uh, for golfers. So. Yes. Is that a golf club? Okay. I've never heard of that. Okay. And also, as you may know, cause you are, we're all there. Elaine's Lemonade, um, sponsored the best corporate business through the Chamber of Commerce. And we won that too. Woo! So we're very grateful to the Chamber of Commerce and to, uh, Lane's Lemonade for sponsoring the award. And we'll put them both out there. And, um, and it was, it's been a very good month. We've got all this, all this stuff. I'll put it by you. There you go. Are we going to recognize, uh, the award we got in communications at, I thought we were going to do that next meeting, 23rd. I thought we did already. We didn't do it already? We did not do it already. And because I think, I don't think Sue is available tonight. I don't think, I actually think I announced it, but we didn't get Sue up here to, to, yeah, you're right. We were going to do, show the video that we won. Can you say that again? Yes, you're right. You're very right. Thank you. You're completely right. Yeah. So I just thought it would be nice. Yeah. Um, you know, people are still recovering. I just think it's a good way to remember that they are, because that was part of, I think. We will, we will show the video and get Sue and her staff up here because. Yeah, they do. They just do great work. I mean, oh my gosh, we're so lucky to have that team. So. Absolutely. Anything else? No. Thank you. Okay. Any questions for the manager? Okay. Uh, city attorney update? None. Okay. So if there's nothing else good for the order, this meeting is adjourned. All right.