okay this is the planning and zoning board slash local planning agency it's an advisory board which makes recommendations to the county commissioners who will make the final decision on these items items h3 item h3 is an lpa item item on today's agenda will be heard by the county commission on may 7th 2026 at 5 p.m right here when a motion ends in any kind of a split vote a roll call vote may be taken to ensure accuracy as a reminder each member who makes a motion or a second needs to turn their microphone on so that your voice is on the record speakers for public comment on the agenda items will be given two minutes please spell your last name for the record when you come to the podium at this time if any board member has had any ex parte communication regarding any application please disclose so now mr chairman i had a conversation with an engineer on one of the projects or two of the projects here slay my change my decision making process but i did speak with him so i wanted to disclose that okay anyone else and uh item h1 i'm familiar with several of the neighbors in that area and i've they've i've had conversations with them regarding the application all right seeing that and hearing that i bring it back to the board i need a motion for the approval for the p and z minutes from april 13th salute second motion by neil a second by ruth all those in favor say aye aye any opposed that passed unanimously item h1 please good afternoon item h1 anton and monica wilsoff request a cup for a single family residential second kitchen facility under application 26z 0001 located in district 5 is the applicant here if you could come to the podium up here and get as close as you can to that microphone state your name spell your last name for the record wasif u a s s e f and your address please 2361 arizona street melbourne all right and a little bit about what you're wanting to do we just want to have a kitchen in the back of the house so we have two kitchens one will be a kosher kitchen that will be used when our family gather together and some part of the family that doesn't use the same kitchen so this is all we're going to live in the house the both kitchens are open to each other so there's no walls the there's no utility separate all the utilities are together i don't know what else we followed all of the requirements that are on the cup application to qualify for this and we also submitted plans to the city and we hired a general contractor and an engineer to make sure that everything is per code while you're right there is there anyone in the audience want to speak for or against this item if you two could just take a seat right there in the front row ma'am if you want to come up and if no you're right near to the microphone if you would state your name and address and spell your last name for the record i'm dr kim maines m-a-i-n-e-s i live at 2551 vermont street okay um i've lived in the area for 30 years and many of our older homes are occupied by children of parents that built those homes they live in that area because it is single family on large lots and that's what we like about it according to the brevard florida government site um the applicants uh have to just must demonstrate the request aligns with the comprehensive zoning codes and obviously it doesn't because there's an existing ongoing code enforcement case also according to the staff comments on that enforcement case the property was previously modified without permits and utilized in a manner inconsistent with single family use the work was done without permits permits and codes are there to protect the residents to make sure they're safe so without those we have no idea about what work was done previously also according to staff comments on the document the cpu associated building permit seeks to bring the structure into compliance with the county regulations to formalize the kitchen in other words the applicants are abiding by the old saying it's better to ask forgiveness than permission rather than addressing the code enforcement case by bringing the structure back into compliance as a single family residence they want the county and they want all of their neighbors to let them formalize that kitchen um also apparently according to the documents that exist they renovated and rented without proper permits so now they're going to have a second kitchen and they won't they're going to try and tell you that they're going to abide by the cup zoning section 6 2 1 9 4 7 which reads no portion of a single family dwelling unit shall be utilized for rental purposes but they've already done that apparently according to your own documents so they're asking us now to believe that they're not going to do that going forward once they formalize a kitchen according to your own staff comments the introduction of a second kitchen facility inherently increases the potential for independent living arrangements okay all right thank you is there anyone else want to speak for against this item anyone like to read the last few minutes behind you i'm here with my wife our name is o kelly o apostrophe k-e-l-l-y ken and laura we live right next door at 2341 we've been there for 41 years um i have a couple photos i don't know if i need who i need to give them to you to look at well you'd have to send them through staff over there first okay and they'd have to check them in okay i see uh anyway um we've observed in the last year or so all this going on this property next door um we figured it was with no permits we never saw anything on the yard or on the front door and there's been major work done in this house um septic tank work um additions to the back of the house the concrete block the roofing modifications um also you know there's four doors across the back of this property why does a single family home need four doors on the back of it well now we kind of know there's been people renting apartments in there and that's why there's all these separate doors so our concern is uh my concern is as a neighbor that their drain field is right next to my property so when they start having a problem it's going to affect my property and my wealth so that's what i'm concerned about so thank you okay thank you sir anyone else want to speak for against this item sir if you could state your name spell your last name unaddressed john trailer t-r-a-y-l-o-r we live across the street 2340 arizona street um he doesn't live in the residence never has uh the place is boarded up now completely hurricane proof um we've witnessed all the renters the people moving in and out constantly we've received mail for apartment a and b so obviously we know where he's going with this he doesn't intend on living there um i mean that's what we see is happening you know we pay our our dues to stay here to do our thing and he's just going to turn it into an apartment complex and we don't want it okay thank you all right thank you sir anybody else want to speak for or against this item you'll be getting a chance here in just a minute i'm going to close it to public comment if there's no one else all right seeing that i'm going to close ma'am did you raise your hand i'm sorry you can come up here you can do it trust me this guy here's been here so long he don't even speak no more so no it's okay come on up and state your name and address and spell your last name my name is chris trammell um i live at 2258 arizona street i love my home i just get a feel for what is i believe they're all correct i think we're going to have people coming and going multiple families in this and you don't want that i don't want that and i'm you know i just love the street i love the neighborhood and i mean i nothing against them but i just um i don't want to see this happen and i feel like if that's approved this is going to be approved over and over again and but the neighborhood we love so much is not going to be the same so but anyway thank you thank you see that wasn't that bad was it you did great can she spell her last name for the record thank you anyone else want to speak for or against this item i'm going to close it for public comment all right seeing that no more public comment could the applicant come back up to the microphone please and i'm going to bring it back to the board do we have any questions for the applicant yeah can we speak now yeah yes go ahead many of the comments that were mentioned were on to for the building we are getting everything approved as we mentioned there's an engineer working on it there's a contractor working on it again i assure my neighbors and everyone that no one will live in this house except us occasionally even like we are not going to live full time they are not going to see anybody they are not going to see cars they are not going to see anything there was no never made apartment b and apartment a yes there were there were tenants there for one or two months there only and if the if actually if the neighbors said anything we should have let them go from day one but we got a notice we reacted right away we got everybody out we are following everything as the code would say and we are going to be there with our family there will be no one there i wrote that and i sent it to the county i cannot i don't think i can't do anything other other than that i already wrote it i already signed it and i am assuring everyone that no one will be in this house except us so um i also want to acknowledge their concerns um and i want to get a little closer to the mic please i want to acknowledge their concerns um so what happened is originally we did rent it out but unfortunately the tenants did unauthorized subletting without our knowledge even we rented out to one family and what happened is they they sublet it to others and no one none of the people here present they had our phone numbers they didn't call us and let us know ma'am you gotta get staying in here so we can keep this on the record okay i'm sorry okay we have the evidence that we took them out none of the neighbors that are here present some of them had our phone numbers and they could have called us and told us hey there's other people living in this house no one said anything until we got the notice from the city as soon as we got the notice from the city we acted on it immediately and got those people out even though this is very very difficult with landlord and tenant laws most of the time i guess i can't say this but in my view landlord tenant laws favor the tenant and once they're there you have a really hard time getting them out and despite that we did everything in our power to get them out they are correct there's no one living right there because we want to get the house ready for us and we are moving there and of course if they ever have an issue in the future there's a lot of them they could notify the city immediately so if they're worried about somebody moving in extra having a b c or whatever they're saying they're there call the city put a notice on us report us right so they have the opportunity to report us if we don't follow through with what we're saying i am actually we are adding we we are asking to add another kitchen for family for family members that are eat kosher and they don't use the same kitchen i don't know if my neighbors one of them is my mechanic my mechanic next door he has a mechanic shop and cars and motors and looks looks ugly in front of me the other one has heavy equipment has john and judy you see j and j they have heavy equipment tractors and stuff this is in front of me this is this is this is this is this is the ugly part not that not someone using another kitchen or is it based on what when we got the notice from the city by the way they were the comments that came said your neighbor complaining you have two hispanic family in the same house hispanic hispanic this is the word that i got it well we got we're planning and zoning board we don't get into the code enforcement issues we don't get into whether or not this is we're planning and zoning so hearing that i'm bringing it back to the board we got any questions for the applicant i have a question yes erica all right one second all right thank you so much um i think i'm a little bit confused on the state of the property right now as i read it it says property owner renovated the entire single family home and converted it into multiple rental apartments which are now rented is that no longer true so as soon as we got notice of it we corrected within we had to follow the law too right so there's landlord tenant laws and once they're in there you can't just kick them out we can't so we got rid of the problem as soon as we could following the law i mean i wish i could have just put a lock and got them out but i couldn't but this problem also lasted two months only it was not like a long time once we get the notice we paid the people and got them out i understand so but you did a renovation and you made it you turned your home into multiple apartments is what it says no that's not true is that not true because that is in our the renovate and it's not it's not it's not actually the house is not entirely renovated as was mentioned it's not entirely i don't think anybody renovate the house from 1950 would not change window we didn't change any windows with most of the doors are the old doors maybe we added two doors or something that is uh when when you have a four four doors in the back because one of them is a storage one of them open to this this kitchen the laundry no one is laundry this is the doors anyone can come and check if you have a laundry you have a you have a room for you have a door for it if you have if you have a storage it's a it's a little room like this this is nobody is going to leave it uh room one i'm not i'm i don't have a motel motel six i'm putting four doors in the back this is this is not true they still can see it but this is i i don't have so this is a question then i guess for staff right what is the state of the code enforcement violations and according to our packet it does say that it has been renovated into multiple rental apartments which are now rented all the work was done without permits and so if it's been renovated already into multiple apartments and you're going to it's a question for staff that's okay i um if i may um just add if you look at the documents that were submitted to the city it shows the floor plan it shows all the details of it so at some and it's approved by a general contractor and an engineer everything submitted so i mean you could look at what it is right now and ultimately if somebody wants to they could come and look and verify that the plans are accurate go in the house and check it right i want to add i want to add one more point building will not will not approve or will review the plan will not finish reviewing until the zoning approve the kitchen so we we are waiting so we contacted the building department a few times to see if anything that we need to do but what we got is they will not approve anything until the zoning get to the point approving the kitchen first okay so that's true it's a process so we're basically waiting on this the application is on hold even though all of the stuff that's in the plans and everything is approved for them they cannot do a final proving approval until this part is it's a process that you guys have one last point i want to mention my neighbors both of them trying to buy the house they put a lot of pressure on me to buy the house and they call me are you gonna buy are you gonna sell it i'm not gonna sell it are you gonna rent it i'm not gonna rent it are you gonna sell it i'm not gonna sell it and they keep asking both of them asking me about buying my property and i'm not gonna sell it in any way they will they will never get it they will never get this property we're not gonna stop i will be your neighbor forever okay well we need to bring it back okay i just wanted to ask staff it's this question for staff yes there is a code enforcement case against them it's 25 ce 00999 the description of the work states property owner renovated the entire single family home converted into multiple rental apartments which are now rented all of work was done without any permits a complaint was verified by the code enforcement officer on june 27 uh 2025 yes he went out to the property and the complaint said he would like to who would like code enforcement to address all the work without permit violations found that created and unpermitted subdivide living space structural plumbing electrical drywall etc also the zoning violations for multiple families in a single family home so yes there was code enforcement for the that and it has not been closed out yet it's still an active case it cannot be closed out until this per the process so i mean this is what the what they told us that the building department cannot do anything until this is this part is taken care of so that was in june 27th that was said and but now there's nobody living there but is it still structured as a multi-family no no no no no so you went in and you read well that's what it says it's a multi-family it's if you multiple multiple rental apartments it is no longer it's no longer so you renovated it from that it's the whole thing about about multiple is there's a wall that's closed and the wall that's closed and the wall is open yeah so there was more work done to make it back to a single family it was always like that we had it was always a single family i think maybe they should look at what was the plans can i ask my mr robert yes go ahead did you put an addition on the house an addition yes no i didn't put them that is untrue what do you mean by addition well an addition that's that's pretty simple an addition you added you added on to the house i have i've um actually visit this neighbor quite often and these people i know these i'm actually related to this guy i visit there quite often i saw you addition i saw you put an addition on the house did you do um work on the on the uh the septic system and without a permit a company that is untrue i saw you working on the septic system with my own voices i have the company and so if you're untrue about these things and the staff says that you turned it into multi-family and i'm i see i see a drawing you are the kitchen but i don't see a drawing that's addressing all these other things so if you're untrue about that how it's to say that you're on that you're not untrue about what is that okay hold on here just a second mr robert we gotta stay with with the planning no i know i know he's changed the house into a multi-family as staff says it seems to me that this is a biased person that is okay i'm gonna take the floor i'm gonna speak okay all right we're not gonna speak no more for just you know usually these things are very very simple we added we make modifications here a lot you never have anybody come in here usually and speak against it i'm gonna be very frank with you i'm not in favor of what you're going to do and i'm not going to give you the zoning to allow you guys to modify until you get it all fixed up then you can come back here as far as i'm concerned it's you're spinning your wheels and blowing your tires because this thing is not heading in the right direction the thing is that the building ask us to finish it doesn't matter the way you've approached it is not the proper way if you got people here speaking against something of this minuscule of a situation you've got a problem and i'm not i'm not in favor of giving you the zoning and then letting you see if you can go to work it's not going to happen i have a question chair i have a question yes there's a question for staff when staff let me ask you a question so they don't have to pay twice and we've done this in the past can we table this issue until they get there get this corrected however how long that takes did i trick you all so the build the building permit is not going to be able to be approved showing the second kitchen unless this is approved so they can remove that's an option remove that from their plans and show you know put the house back to one kitchen or you can table it and they can come back but they still can't get that permit approved until this is approved but they wouldn't need it they don't they wouldn't need a zoning change if they removed the second kitchen that is correct they wouldn't need the conditionally use permit and they could get the permit to bring the house back into order into code and then could come and make the requests and then add the second kitchen afterward ruth were you wanting i'm sorry i stepped on you i'm sorry you're okay i just i was curious how many code enforcement cases are there for this there's only one because i when i i think when i looked it up on on bass there was multiple cases against this address well just wait if there's something there i think the other ones are contractor licensing okay thank you mr chairman yes sir my turn is this kitchen already installed yes you did it without a permit yes you know it's a violation right now can you tell me what the difference between a regular kitchen and a kosher kitchen is please what's the difference why are you putting in no as they asked me why you want it so that's why i want it i i want to keep it because of that i don't want to keep it no it's not you're not answering my question yes what's the difference between a regular kitchen in a house and a kosher kitchen i mean so every single surface and kitchen item anything whatsoever in that kitchen that's supposed to be kosher cannot be touched by a a certain type of meat because of beliefs certain beliefs it's his family you're not answering my question are you talking about structurally just what's in there it's just to the kitchen so it could be used as a regular kitchen for another tenant no no so there's no tenant there's no tenant the house will be i will be i said it could be it could be because it's a regular kitchen it's just an additional kitchen in a single family home if it's rented it could be but if it's not rented it cannot be and it's open it's open to the other house how can a tenant live open to the other tenant well the drawing that i see here from your engineer shows a partition between the two kitchens no there's no partition anyone can come and inspect tomorrow if they want there's no that's what that's not what's shown on the documents that we have in front of us can i see the drawing maybe it's not updated where's the current kitchen mr mr chair where is it if i may mr chair yes sir a point of clarification and procedural uh mr hoppergarden you stated that you had two conflicts of interest or you spoke with that's not the correct individuals prior to or ex parte whatever what items did you speak to that engineer on just asked him what he what he drew up what items were they h1 h2 h3 h4 and one and two okay thank you for clarifying engineer okay thank you and mr brothers yes you stated that you have a relative yes thank you okay what's the relation between you and that individual nephew nephew yes okay so like i said i visit the neighborhood occasionally okay i'm just looking for it from a conflict of interest perspective in a voting issue but i'll look into it while the discussion i need to accuse myself that's fine okay i'm not saying you have to i just need to confirm that that's all i was saying telling you what my eyes saw you looked at it what did you see is your engineer here yeah somebody raised their hand can we call the engineer up yes uh could you take a seat there in the front row what plan you have so can you state your name and address and spell your last name for the record antonio owen o-w-e-n 303 303 peregrine drive in atlantic florida here tony yes and they show as a wall back to back yeah this is open to now i'm talking about between can you speak into the microphone so we can pick up your yeah the the two kitchens are back to back with the bathroom kind of next to one of the the kitchens as well i don't know if you have the do you guys have there's a you want to take this and put it on there okay all right so you can see the two sinks the kitchen sinks the double sinks there there is a wall there that the two kitchens are back to back to the right of that there's a hallway that you will connect the two areas so there is a wall between the two kitchens currently yeah i don't know anything about kosher kitchens um so i don't know if you're you can have a kitchen open to another kitchen and still be kosher i have no idea i'm not it's not my religion when you keep saying open i see them back to back with a wall between them yeah okay so that's not open i mean no i'm asking you i don't know if you have if you can have an open kitchen i have no idea if no no i'm just looking at it design wise the other okay i'm just trying to establish the fact that they're asking for a cup for a kosher a kosher kitchen and i just want to make sure that there's a big difference between somebody putting in an extra kitchen or a specialty kitchen that could be that could be used by the family like he was saying yeah so i'm just trying to establish that but the way the drawing looks it's not open i mean it's an open room yes oh he was someone was saying it's an open kitchen or yeah he said it's open to the other trying to say it's in his i think in his view that it's open in the sense that you can get to both kitchens like the it's not like you have to walk around the house to get to the kitchen you can go through a hallway to get to the other kitchen okay i think that's what he's i i'm i'm interpreting so i don't know i'm interpreting but the when i was there the there's a hallway that connects the two to two the two kitchen areas together are there doors on that hallway you can see there's a door right there so i mean i guess you could take the door out if you need to my my thought is i i don't know if he didn't have to have a kosher kitchen my thought is just make it a kitchenette and and be done with it is you a kitchenette anything with a kitchenette called kitchen is going to be a second kitchen i've done kitchen you couldn't call it kitchen how do you do mother-in-law sweets with a refrigerator and in a sit in a i mean kitchen is made to store to prepare and cook food so anytime you have something that is being one of those three especially cooking that's what a kitchen is for so kitchenette is would be under your definition has another kitchen still yes because your kitchen you're calling it a kitchen all right so what do you what do we call it then so if it's just a refrigerator and a microwave you can't have a microwave either you can cook with a microwave even though you can take a microwave and put it into any one when do these rules change i mean i don't know daily it's in the definition of kitchen in our section let me ask you one question but i'm allowed to put it i'm not me but but uh in brevard county i think it's a state law actually i can put an adu and and you guys cannot stop it an adu yep you have to meet the definition for what an adu is and a living area yeah for having a deep but that's what i'm saying i can do a second living area i can do detached an adu is not relevant to this conversation it was just a kind of comment like we're allowed as by law to do a detached adu and no one can stop it and you can complain to meet the but it's part of the affordable housing that's part of the affordable housing laws i'm sorry to tell you all right we need to reel this back in thanks tony okay so he needs a kitchen because of his beliefs the religion can you come back up please and you're going to be the only family in the house yes period period and he they need to get this other kitchen approved for zoning is that correct staff sorry say that one the other kitchen needs to be approved for zoning yes we got any other questions for the board they're done we'll make a motion we deny the request mr brothers mr brothers one second i'm sorry mr brothers i would suggest that you just abstain just based on what we've heard to cover yourself and then if we need to provide you a form we will okay i'm fine thank you give us okay we got a motion by henry a second by erica all those in favor say any opposed okay that didn't pass item h2 item h2 dominique f culpepper ralph m williams the third ralph williams the fourth erica williams being represented by antonio owen request a zoning classification change from au to ru-2-15 located in district two sir are you the applicant yes yes i'm the applicant all right yes sir again if you could state your name spell your last name and address for the record antonio owen owen 303 peregrine drive all right you've got the floor we're proposing uh rezoning of an au parcel in merritt island on 280 grove boulevard um we're asking for um ru-215 current zoning is uh au the future land use flu is uh rez 15 so it's in line with the future land use of the property there's a ru-215 north of the parcel south of the parcel to the west of the parcel um and then there's an ru-215 that's just west of the parcel as well so it's in to us it's in line with um with the future land use and what the intention of the area which one to do our plan is to do 36 um apartment units for senior living affordable housing right while you're right there is there anyone in the audience want to speak for or against this item all right sir if you could take a seat there in the front row ma'am if you want to come on up state your name spell your last name and your address for the record please uh so my name is beverly newrock you pull that microphone a little closer to you there you go beverly newrock n-e-u-r-o-c-k and my address is 288 marion place on merritt island and i am let's see north of uh this proposed area and uh my concern is unfortunately um we have a flooding area a flooding problem there already and um i have pictures from october of 2024 and october 2025 but i didn't know that they had to be submitted um and so my concern is that i just want to make sure that as we start working on that property that they take if they if if this zoning is approved that they would take the appropriate actions to ensure that the current flooding problem is any worse than it already is in addition to that you know i noticed that just looking at where the where the county is on infrastructure at this point you know merritt island i read an article on how they're preparing for the fdep's camera scoping requirements for piping and stuff like that and merritt island's not even in the picture on that and so there's already a funding problem in the county for fixing flooding issues and merritt island took a hit um and so i'm just asking for your consideration as a whole i can appreciate that you want to you know prove the property and i'm just saying that the flooding needs to be addressed as prior to or okay you know all right yeah thank you thank you does anyone else want to speak for or against this item seeing that i'm going to close this item for public comment sir if you could come back up i'll bring it back to the board to the board do we have any questions for the applicant clarification yeah go ahead i'll come after you please okay thanks you mentioned um affordable housing and senior living is it senior senior it's a senior living community for and we're going to be uh targeting the affordable affordable housing for seniors thank you what does that mean uh we're working with we're planning to work with uh the brevard housing authority to supply um choice vouchers and choice vouchers are the hud the hud program so they can use that to have a place to live would you i'm sorry yeah good explain to that lady about the first each runoff or do you want to mention that or well i know st john's has new rules yeah so we have to design for you're not going to make her problem worse no we i'm gonna assure her but i want you to tell her yeah no we we can't make the problem worse i mean we have to retain all our water um if you look at the pictures there's a lot of like little surf um like all these little lines around there that's retention so most of the site is going to be retention if it's not how uh parking or the building it's retention it's retention so the we have to by state uh codes to requirements to take care of all the stormwater retention uh overflow is that large area in the center you're uh also retention area that's another area retention how big is that i don't know we haven't done the calculations this is just the this is just conceptual right now we're still working on that we're planning to do maybe a pre-op uh the next couple weeks kind of was trying to get this going first the rezoning before i get too much too much ahead of myself here and you said it's going to really be for seniors are you going to have anything other than just apartments they're just no they're just uh after talking to to mike being over at the housing authority they just said they just need their need right now it's just living living quarters really and are those uh two-story multiple stories single um single story is that is that yeah that's that's correct that's what you intend to build that's our conceptual uh plan is just do single story it's just single story okay and also you said it's for seniors and how are you going to restrict to seniors um i don't know if we have to have or what kind of law bylaws we'll have but i mean our plan is just to set up an operating management company that's going to just use the choice vouchers system with and in um in coordination with the housing authority or choice vouchers something that only seniors can get no anyone can get them but i know there's when we talked to mike beam he said we could just have it where only seniors can apply for it they have like you can have a veteran community and only the veterans can apply to it so you can set it up in in different ways with the choice vouchers okay and these are rental apartments not not not a condominium or something like that condominium it's single it's single uh single ownership that owns all the apartments or operator and then um the choice vouchers would be able to do you see in the staff report that they mentioned you're in a type three aquifer and there's a restriction for the impervious um you're aware of that i have another engineer that's working on it so i don't know if he he's he's probably aware of it so the site plan you submitted now exceeds that impervious percentage i just want to make sure you know that okay i'll get in touch with them yeah and then from the stormwater perspective i realize it's a zoning component but you're right the stormwater rules for st john's have changed significantly where is the um point of outfall going to be for this project i'd have to get with them on that my the engineer i'm working with okay so we don't know i haven't gone to this is just conceptual just kind of more like putting something together on paper like i said we haven't gone too deep with it yet we haven't you know a couple days on it maybe that's about it okay thank you talk to us in a week if we get past this this board meeting any other questions from anyone on the board i have a question for staff um with this rezoning what is the max density that could be put on here can you repeat that question with changing the zoning um i know what he's asking for but often what they ask for might not be the maximum density that would be allowed on the property once you change the zoning what would that be 38 36 could they go two stories if they decided to change their mind after the zoning they can go two stories okay i just wanted a clarification thank you are there additional buffering requirements that'll be between this property and the single family to the east required no they're both residential so there'd be no there'd be no change right it's not commercial or industrial the chairman i have mr john can your units be made as two-story if we have to yeah usually your units are single stories well i mean you can do two-story you can do three-story i mean but our intention is to do i mean structurally structurally you can do five uh well whatever the limits are for the county i mean but our intent for cost savings is to go with one story you go two-story it costs a lot more so to be affordable it you start losing the affordability you going for any tax incentives um possibly i don't know i'm i'm sure we'll try i'm not really part of that there's other there's other partners that are dealing with that stuff okay quite one more question uh what size are the apartments uh they're 511 square feet for the one bedroom one the real need right now is one bedroom one bath so we're doing mostly those and then there's they said that uh there's a couple times that uh some of the seniors have a um a sibling or a sibling a uh son or daughter that's living with them so there is uh six that are to be two bedroom two uh two bedroom one bath with uh 750 760 square feet somewhere around there so most of them are going to be single yeah okay the need that's what their needs are we're trying we're just trying to target what their needs are and and satisfy that okay would you be willing to have a uh binding development plan says you're only going to have single story yeah i have a problem with that okay i have a question okay so you mentioned that it's only going to be seniors um but so you said they can have children that live with them too or whatnot let's say if the senior passes on and their child wants to stay living there right and then you have the younger generation living there too can that is that part of this i mean can it you know all of a sudden open up that it's just affordable living each you know like not for any age i and to me unless that that uh the child has a voucher they can't live there it's it's a it's all based on the vouchers the uh choice voucher so it's it's based on the voucher it's not based on senior living well senior living it's senior living without vouchered senior living okay a voucher uh choice voucher so i get their their children are like i said they're you know they're probably in their 70s 80s so their children are probably like 45 50 i mean they're not kids kids they're they're gonna they're probably gonna be seniors themselves most likely and it's not an often thing i don't i don't really know that part of it he just said do this do the one better one bath and just throw a couple two bedrooms in there because there sometimes there'll be and might be a caretaker too that's living with them or something i don't know that's what their request was so we're just trying to satisfy the request okay would you be open to a binding development plan or something that said there has to be a senior living there it is a senior because this is you know how it's been advertised to us yes okay mr chairman yes sir mr brawn i move approval for this with those two binding development plan agreements i'll second staff did y'all get the information on the bdps item h2 we got a motion by ron a second by erica all those in favor say aye aye any opposed that passed unanimously thank you thank you sir item h3 which is an lpa item item h3 and h4 i'm going to read into the record together however they'll need separate recommendations so turtle mound ventures llc being represented by kim razenka are requesting a small-scale comprehensive plan amendment under 2026s.01 to change the future land use designation from pub res 1 res 2 directive to cc under application 26 ss 000.01 in this one we are asking for the board to consider whether or not the request is consistent and compatible with the surrounding area and also whether it's consistent with objective 7 of the coastal management area and for item h4 turtle mound ventures llc again being represented by kim razenka are requesting a zoning classification change from gmli and tr1 to rvp under application 26 z 000.07 this is located in district 2 north merritt island did unanimously voted to recommend to deny approval of this also on this one we are asking the board to consider the proposed point of ingrass egress in relation to the character of the surrounding area as access to the local roads one other thing that was not mentioned in the staff report that kind of is mentioned in the staff report is the density the the number of units so in here we say propose that they can get 283 lots of course we know application of regulations can typically reduce development potential and so on this we are also asking the board to consider policy 2.10 as well which talks about limiting the density you you you it gives you the option if you want to make a recommendation to cap the density on this project okay thank you ma'am yes good afternoon chairman members of the lpa and planning and zoning board my name is kim razenka with lacy razenka in melbourne here on behalf of turtle mound ventures llc this is a project up in north merritt island off of north cartney parkway this is old school board property that was surplused that my client bought several years ago so obviously it was land that couldn't be used for schools but was intended for schools and now it has a future land use of public facilities and a zoning of governmental managed lands which is very interesting so there are two applications one is to change the future land use map to community commercial and one to change rezoning to recreational vehicle park this is on state road three it's only about five miles north of state road 528 not 24 miles as was in the staff reports as i said is uh formerly owned by the school board of brevard county it's approximately 28.37 acres and we need to change the community commercial future land use to allow rv park we have no issues with limiting access to state road three that makes perfect sense we wouldn't go on magruder anyhow so if we need a bdp for that that's fine uh mr hoppingard i heard you were at the north mid island special dependent district board yes i was okay did you speak against this no i did not i just asked questions okay thank you so uh looking at i'll tell you why because i live just north of there i understand yes yeah i understand you you do you own property up there no i rent okay so the government managed lands is to recognize the presence of facilities that are managed by federal state and local government special districts uh organizations that partner with government so obviously this is not appropriate any longer for government managed lands the permitted uses are interesting none of these which my client wants to do my client has developed a recreational vehicle park out in washington state those are the pictures that you have in your packet that were presented obviously different land use requirements in uh washington state than here we have storm water we have all kinds of things they may not have so those pictures were just representative of something he has developed in the past so this is his business model is rv parks but what could be here are cemeteries and mausoleums group homes parking lots or garages space related activities assisted living facilities hospitals recycled materials facilities and then there's lots of conditional uses arsenals and explosives we could have another knight's armament here electrical natural gas water wastewater utilities hazardous waste facility prison camps solid waste management and water and treatment facilities obviously none of those are appropriate in this place either so my client wants to come in and bring a luxury resort style recreational vehicle park to serve the needs of tourists space launches things along those lines uh this property was purchased with that intent might have wanted to come to you first but did not so here we are this is a commercial use there's many references in the staff report to a residential use but this is purely a commercial use limited to the number of days you can stay at an rv park 180 days is the maximum the maximum intensity of the park is 10 sites per acre minimum site size is 2 000 square feet again we don't have a site plan it hasn't been developed we don't have elevations we don't have a lot of things to do a site plan yet but all of those things will be designed at the site plan stage as well as performance standards lighting noise things along those lines buffering code requires that 10 percent of the land be for recreational activities for the residents of the recreational vehicle park so that'd be close to three acres if not more the accessory use is allowed to be a laundry facility playgrounds picnic areas swimming pools ball and game courts and a manager's residence all of those are proposed for this rv parks are not allowed to be permanent residences so again this is a commercial use what i provided to you was a larger version of what you get in your packet i don't believe the very limited narrow scope of your maps shows the full picture of this area when you look at the future land use map you see the area in blue that i colored and you'll see what is around it there is residential to the west north that is an old 1962 manufactured home community of quarter acre lots there's also teen mission has about 20 homes back there which i was surprised to find out as well so this is an interesting neighborhood it's an old neighborhood most of them are not homesteaded so they're mostly rental properties not that that matters but they'll still be protected from many of the uses here so as you see you if you go further north on courtney you wind up with air liquid and the borrow pit which came before you just two months ago so you have some commercial activities to the north you have commercial activities to the south you don't have many commercial activities i don't believe you have a community cluster because there's not 10 acres of community act commercial activities to the south of here but there are community commercial future land uses and neighborhood commercials all along courtney parkway which is considered a commercial corridor if you look at the zoning map which is on the back side again you have institutional which is the church immediately to the east and going forward you have bu2 then you have industrial going south you have the fire station you have a dollar general store that's been permitted but not built and several different bu1 uses and bu2 uses to the south so again this is a commercial corridor this is intended for commercial uses originally intended for a school that didn't work out the staff report says there are no identifiable concurrency issues north courtney parkway will operate at 47.6 per seven cent percent of maximum average vehicle utilization brief research on the internet says the average trip per site is about 4.1 which is much less than townhomes apartments or single family homes they will not generate school children as the park is a commercial use it's located in a transitional area says the staff report the staff report does mention that that there is a great deal of coastal high hazard floodplain issues again these will address at site plan stage this is not increasing residential density as the comp plan says this is a commercial density issue a commercial intensity issue coastal management element object seven aims to limit densities this is again not residential with that jake wise with ceg engineering is the engineer of record he is working on a concept plan we don't have one but he was the one who attended north baron special dependent district board if you have any questions about stormwater development things that will come along the site plan he can answer those questions with that we would request approval of the change of the comprehensive plan to community commercial and the change of zoning to recreational vehicle park if you want to put conditions on that through a bdp we understand that especially as to access any questions mr neal as far as the rv park do you have any idea at this point since you're not at site plan but how many sites it would have the max it can have is 280 but when you start looking at floodplains and things like that the recreational the buffering we don't know okay no go ahead i've already started with neil here yeah he jumped right in okay um yes i was at the uh north brevard or north merritt island district meeting inadvertently so it wasn't like i knew about this one coming up um i had a couple of questions at the time number one how did how do you all propose to get into the park the gentleman had said that they were coming in off of courtney but there's no lane to do that it's a divided highway and i was concerned because they would have to make a u-turn at pine island road which is where i live and that would be a mess because there's nothing there's no other way to to go if you're going north to make the left turn into that property so that was one concern i had also i had asked him if they would be willing to put a tree buffer along courtney so that we wouldn't see all the rv vehicles from the road and he was amenable to it and also i asked him if the uh the rv vehicles were going to be parked on hardened pads yeah they have to be okay by the code so that's going to have your impervious surface issue and because you don't have a conceptual site plan we don't know if you know how much retention because flooding is a big issue up here and um we're very concerned about that at the last the big storm in october it took a little week for the water to go away it was it was quite a mess and also he had said something about putting a um a convenience store okay on the property and and staff said that that was not allowed i believe the he you're referring to is jake wise with ce gen just just to keep the record um i don't know about the access again that's a site plan issue and it's going to have to be reviewed with fdot since this is an fdot road so i do not know what that is but again county's going to have to approve it fdot is going to have to approve it tree buffer is fine rv has to be on pads concrete pads pursuant to the code and stormwater is something that is addressed as site plan also with the floodplain issue and the coastal hazard area those are going to have to be addressed and it's going to be run through the stormwater modeling for north merritt island which is the new protocol in that area so it's going to be looked at by many many people uh are you going to put this on um on sewer yes it has been so okay that's all sir mr wrong uh one question the uh to get in access to the park uh it's my understanding they're going to have to create a cut through the median and dot would have to authorize that yes if dot were decide not to authorize that is that a deal breaker i i i do not know this is again we're in site plan i haven't had that conversation with the client out of jcaz but but there will be i mean even if it's an access i i don't know um i do not think there's that many median cuts that would prevent another one but i do not know i'm not an engineer we're holding up for questions so i'm going to take it out to the public thank you is there anyone in the audience want to speak for or against this item okay sir if you could come up and state your name and address and spell your last name for the record my name is bill augs b-o-g-g-s 1671 harbor drive merritt island 32952 okay let me give you two minutes here i have serious concerns i have a piece of property in that neighborhood to the northwest that you know complicated explanation but i'm living there even though i'm technically with my wife it is what it is but i've personally you know experienced flooding and know of the sensitivity of that area the uh land land that they show on the g you you have you know a bunch of stuff your your people that did the research and the summary excellent job but you know the the part that's the surge zone and the hydraulic and everything four to six months out of the year that is underwater that's almost half the property if they are allowed to add land you know fill that water's got to go somewhere and the only place it can go is is the neighborhood to the northwest you know courtney is built up much higher and it's almost like a wall you know it's it's got to go north it can't go south um also i'd like you know so that's my one issue i'd also like to point out the awkwardness of that location with the tropical trail dumping out you know onto the middle of a curve of courtney and the major traffic you know flow during you know rush hours you know for the cape and the turn lanes are definitely not appropriate for larger vehicles so you're opposed yes i'm opposed all right thank you sir thank you sir i saw you raised your hand here in the middle my name is brian bussen b-u-s-s-e-n my address is 6405 genoa trail in melbourne and um my wife made me write this down i'm the land development manager for outback reserve which is the diminished subdivision within 500 feet that hasn't started yet immediately to the west of this property now the engineers spent four years working with the county to get the drainage right to get the permits for these 164 lots minimum half acre on 164 acres with the future being a 40 acre botanical gardens in the middle of the subdivision our problem is it's just is having something that's going to be a high-end subdivision probably the best looking subdivision on north merritt island since the savannahs um have this commercial activity which will have its own i mean they've got to have a management office and have to be able to buy things on the run so just part of that has i'm sure will come in with some commercial usage and there are 10 units per acre and we spent my client spent four years getting the permits to start at one unit per acre that's where i have a little bit of a problem with this we i'm speaking against this super commercial activity this close okay that's all i have i'm i've known you long enough mr buster to call you brian and marvelous job at the savannahs i know you want to get that plug in but those lots that are with the way that the property up there has been escalating in cost those lots that you all are working on have got to be thousand dollar lots is am i being realistic from what everybody else everybody will up there wants a hundred thousand an acre and then you fill another hundred thousand so i mean it's crazy realism i think and i'm guessing at this point but based on what i see the numbers coming out working with the plans they're they're going to be three hundred thousand dollar lots that's why it's going to have to be an upper end community and it's a it's the prettiest piece of land on on north merritt island it's it's thank you that's the only question i had thank you thank you sir thank you anyone else want to speak sir if you could state your name and address spell your last name for the record sure uh my name is jack kirschenbaum k-i-r-s-c-h-e-n-b-a-u-m my address is 207 antigua drive coco beach i am a trustee of the trust that is developing the outback it was the ron de minna property and it's owned by the de minna family trust and today i'm not talking as a lawyer and 45 years i came before this board and talked as a lawyer and now i'm talking as a representative of the owner as an owner and i'm not real comfortable with it it's kind of a really strange feeling um be that as it may um and i thought i was retired you know i i retired two years ago as a lawyer and here i am unretired uh and by the way the retirement gig is really good when you get to it um but we we've been working for over four years on on the outback um it is as complicated uh as a engineering project as as a lawyer that i've ever worked on these lots are going to be spectacular they're going to be half acre they're going to be hugely expensive the development will be something that north merritt island hasn't seen before and we are just in the throes of completing it and getting it to the subdivision level and working the drainage out with the help of your staff it has been a monumental project um that being said um i i hardly ever speak against projects because all i ever did was come before you and ask for permissions and rezonings and the like but we don't think this is consistent with the land use we don't think it's compatible we think the traffic issues are uh going to be insurmountable um we believe that the um this isn't the right project for this parcel we believe and we just we we would very much uh like to have seen a site plan we would have liked to have seen answers to all the questions your staff has already asked and it would be we think really premature to grant these two requests before all that information is available and before you because we are so sensitive to the transportation issues and the drainage issues and the development issues that it's just not the right time or place we believe for this this particular project that's all i had to say okay thank you thank you sir anyone else want to speak for against this ma'am if you could come on down and your name and address for the record and please spell your last name my name is rose plumber p-l-u-m-m-e-r and i'm here representing the north merritt island homeowners association p.o box 542-372 merritt island florida 32954 based on our review i'm here to speak in opposition to the requested small scale comprehensive plan amendment after reviewing this proposal it's clear that the request to allow an rv park does not meet the requirements for a small scale comprehensive plan amendment there are already numerous rv parks operating in brevard county and there is existing commercial space just 0.25 miles from the property the applicant has not demonstrated a need that would justify changing the land use designation and additionally north courtney parkway is not designated as a major multi-county transportation corridor for these reasons the site does not meet the locational criteria of policy 2.8 f with respect to interstate accessibility or corridor designation approving this amendment would open the door for further land use changes down the road that are not in this community's best interest or long-term interest any amendment must be consistent with the comprehensive plan and this proposal does not meet that threshold additionally there are way too many unanswered questions for these reasons i respectfully recommend that you deny the request to change the sscpa thank you thank you ma'am um ma'am if you want to and you're next you already know the drill now right yes i know the drill my name is christianne connor c-o-n-n-o-r i'm at 6187 north tropical trail i'm um not an attorney and i wasn't actually prepared to speak i wanted to see what other people were saying but i'm just a concerned citizen i think it's strange that this is called turtle mound ventures i can't even imagine i have so many turtle mounds on my property at some point i'm hoping brevard's going to step in and take care of the natural resources we have i can't imagine 280 rvs on this particular piece of property we already have a lot of environmental impact going on around that area additionally i make a left right there to get on north tropical trail and i cannot make a left anymore between the hours of 3 30 and 5 p.m at night as all the spacex and blue origin traffic comes down that way we're going to have to have a light so i can't imagine the traffic impact of all of these rvs and all the people going in and out of north tropical trail and courtney parkway the traffic with the barge bridge there getting in and out and as you all know we don't have a school so parents trying to get their kids to and from have to get over the barge bridge with all of this traffic adding any more traffic is going to be devastating for this area and again yes i think it would be great to have a tree line but we really this area of brevard is suffering with the flooding and all of the natural impacts even the sewer system i've been told multiple times we can't have sewer on our property brevard can't handle the amount of new residents in the sewer system that we have currently so i just don't know how we're going to tax it further and that's just those are just my concerns i'm definitely opposed thank you thank you ma'am if you want to come on up and you know the drill too now yes sir i do um hi my name is katie mccarver last name m-c-c-a-r-v-e-r and i live at 6680 mcruder road so from my house you from my back door you can see the very tip top of this piece of property that they're looking at to build this and we are definitely opposed my husband and i are definitely opposed to this um because uh kind of piggybacking off of what she said and i'm glad you also brought it up sir the traffic would be uh monumental in my street mcgruder is kind of that back road uh between pine island and and tropical and so inevitably especially since you know it hasn't been improved yet like he was saying that to have that left hand turn and it's a lot of unanswered questions it's a big concern of ours and mine and my neighbors that inevitably they're going these all of these um rvs are going to miss this turn and they're going to turn down pine island come across magruder where we do have children that play out there we have a number of houses and things with small kids my myself included and so um we're very much worried about that and um and we just would ask that you would consider all of the neighbors back there that um live and have to deal with that traffic and things and the things that would come out of result of this and the the worry that it's going to lower our property value as well to have like the tree line would help but i can see the top of this property from my back door and so it's a concern for sure and so we appreciate your consideration that we oppose this okay thank you thank you anyone else want to speak for or against this item ma'am if you could come on up just gotta state your name and address and spell your last name for the record thank you mary hillberg h-i-l-l-b-e-r-g 3780 sierra drive merritt island the uh north merritt island special advisory board as well and um part four of the excellent staff comments that the staff has created for us uh noted that res one is in all directions of this property so if um when we have res one uh in every direction then that would be our was our would be our recommendation that they would request uh if they were going to be changing zoning on the property on maps of 40 40 on pages 40 41 42 and 45 of the staff comments it plainly demonstrates hydric soils coastal flood zones coastal high area hazard areas and scrub j um occupancy on all those areas respectively to suggest that traffic would not be um will be not negatively infected affected by this um development or proposal uh is um absurd it would be a real nightmare it'll congest that whole curve and it is very congested now and it's not going to get any less the north merritt island special advisory board voter to recommend denial of this application on the basis of administrative policies 3a b c d and administrative policy 4a and b4 b 5b c and e no you should still be on where am i there you are 6a and b and administrative policy 7 as well as section 62 1151 of the brevard code 1 3 4 and 5 as well as factors to consider 1 3 and 5 as firm basis for denial we respectfully ask this board to follow our recommendations since we're we try to offer an option we would recommend res 1. okay thank you very much thank you ma'am anyone else want to speak for against this item all right i'm going to close it for public comment miss rosinka if you could come back up please thank you chairman i want to turn back to the zoning map again there are many zonings in this area we are not seeking a residential use the need for the change is because this was school board surplus property that is not being used as surplus so it needs a new use and this is a long a commercial corridor and with tourism the way it's becoming having these high-end luxury resorts that can have the rvs is going to be of great benefit to the community the traffic concerns are not supported by the record nor has any evidence been presented here today in fact the only evidence is the staff report however a traffic study will be required at site plan stage and that will require any turn lanes whatever we need to do to make it safe because we don't want anyone in the community not to be safe we don't want the persons that are staying here to not be safe as to a commercial use there may be a little general store for laundry detergent and beer but there's a circle k just less than half a mile down the street so there's not going to be full-blown commercial uses on this property looking at the staff report when you look at they're pretty much the same but looking at the comprehensive plan analysis it talks about the existing commercial development talks about the gas and convenience store that there was a dollar general store approved talks about community commercial activities located south of the subject property it does talk about this being a transitional area it's not truly residential it may be truly resident and the outdoor development excuse me the outback development that mr bussen is working on will be substantially buffered from here and again he is not an mia appraiser mr kirchenbaum is not an mia appraiser no one here has said that there's going to be a depreciation value of their property by a high-end luxury rv park regarding the request for a site plan florida law does not require it in fact you cannot require it at zoning it can be offered but again it's even not binding you don't have a binding way to do that other than a binding development plan there's conditions you want in the binding development plan such as buffering no access on magruder things like that that can be put into a binding development plan the drainage and flooding issues those will obviously have to be addressed we're going through that right now with the the land alteration borough pit spacewalk groves they're going through the stormwater modeling program it's costing them forty thousand dollars just to have it run by the experts so it's something that this project will also have to do we're very aware of the the flooding and we don't want the site to flood either nor the neighbors to flood again this development proposal is for commercial and not residential use regarding the statement that the administrative policies support denial they do not there's nothing in your staff report that supports denials it supports perhaps a review of whether it's compatible this is a commercial corridor it's compatible it can be more compatible by buffering there are no facts that are in the staff report or that were stated here today that supports denial of this request we have shown the need by the fact that this is surplus property that can only be developed for public facilities for governmental mental lands and so a zoning changes need the request is for an rv park and with that again we can answer any questions but we ask for approval of both requests i'll bring it back to the board do we have any questions for mr zinka yes in the minutes from the north merritt island meeting mr wise said that he expected there probably would be four to five sites i mean four to five yeah sites trailer sites on the property as opposed to the 10 that's allowed i didn't i didn't find those minutes anywhere they weren't up on the website this morning when i looked so i don't mr wise if you could come up and state your name and address and spell your last name for the record thank you jake wise civil engineer for the project wise my address is 2651 west o'galley boulevard in melbourne so yeah i was i was representing the project at the north merritt island special advisory board and they did ask about the intensity because it is a commercial use the number of potential sites we've designed multiple rv parks in the past typically we end up somewhere between four or five or six units per acre this site because it has a triangular shape it's a luxury so bigger sites more amenities things like that we anticipate to be towards the lower end so that's why we discussed the less than 10 units an acre i've never seen one that was that intense and we are again just at the initial stage of zoning and land use so as mr rozenka identified earlier the points of access utility extensions buffering wetland preservation all of those things are to be coming with the site plan and we don't have any objection at all to a buying development plan we would be happy to do that as we move forward with a specific site plan for this for it's a unique piece of property it was supposed to be for school so buses would have had to be coming and going your peak hour am would have been pretty rough rv parks are generally a very low traffic generator there's not a lot of traffic coming and going on a daily basis for them any type of uh commercial type of use as mrs rozenka identified would be accessory to the rv part to provide uh like at a campground store or something like that for the residents as well so i think i answered your question yes thank you i was wondering if you would be willing to mrs rozenka said you might entertain a bdp for example uh one that restricts the number of sites to say five or six yeah ultimately rather than living at ten so that yes yes sir um ten definitely would be uh high in our experience and so that is just the maximum that the zoning code happens to allow that was wondering if you'd be willing to entertain a bdp that would limit it to say six uh that's something i'll have to just confer with our client and i can give you a quick answer on that okay and the other issue that i heard was uh traffic that entrance away i mean uh interest into the property out exit only on state road three as opposed to using some of the side streets yeah we definitely would not use the residential road um to the north of us that definitely would not be our access at all we fully anticipated as i stated in the other meeting that it would be coming off of north courtney but we'd have to of course work that out with dot um so without a site specific site plan we don't know with 100 certainty how that'll be but we would fully anticipate just like if it was a school site school buses would have access to it from the main road typically we would have the same there could be a median cut that allows left ingress only there's a lot of different things we can do to make sure there's plenty of safe travel there's nothing we want more than to be able to come and go from a luxury rv park safely for the traveling public and for the residents we're very well aware of how busy it is in the pm peak hour especially when people are leaving the space center in the evening i grew up in maryland i graduated from maryland high school so i've been in this area a long time i used to chase the ostriches even at the farm there so completely aware of that and especially the special flood zone areas it's got a lot of different overlay districts it's got the ae zoning on it and x zoning so that'll be a big part of our overall site plan by county rule by dot rule by state statute with st john's we're not allowed to do anything that would impact an adjacent property so we will have to maintain all of our storm water on site we'll provide a higher efficiency nutrient removal and all the other requirements that they have in addition to the compensatory storage because it's in marit island north of hall road there's also additional restrictions for that as well any other questions for the applicant i i have one and maybe it's just an oversight on my part but um mr zonka had said that commercial so we're not worried about increasing density you know in this area but it is increasing density in a coastal high hazard area is it not it is significantly increasing density so density is based on residential uses and because the commercial use they look at it as intensity that's how the staff report is written that's how it's um done so yes it does would increase any use on this site especially a school for example which was the attention uh would significantly increase trips and so that would be the case for any type of development on the site all would be an increase in trips uh but we're uh we're proposing one that is a very very low trip generation trip generator compared to most a single family house townhomes just uh typically is 10 trips a day rv parks like three or four so it's a significant reduction thank you any other questions by board anna did i see your finger oh okay are we done with both of them i guess this should give me an opportunity i can ask a question sure um sorry jake you i know you're almost back there okay perfect in the meeting minutes from north pratt island you had mentioned there was talk about this tree buffer and you had mentioned that that was a great idea and the intent was to kind of create a more mature this place has been here for a while can you talk about that a little bit i know it's not part of a site plan requirement it's not technically in here but can you give us an idea of the flavor of what you're looking for are you trying to design or will you be trying to design around some of the larger trees and kind of create those moments or do we just not know that yet yeah so um what we typically do on most of our site plans is because of the new requirements especially in merritt island we elevate the sites to provide the treatment to not allow any runoff so our preservation opportunities are typically mostly around the perimeter and as i mentioned in the meeting they were looking at some pictures with a beautiful mountain landscape in the back from the state of washington so it was in a valley so they were trying to compare that project to what it would look like and so we're explaining that we wanted to have established preservation trees as much as we could around the perimeter where we're not typically elevating the site and then we have more than likely some wetland preservation areas and an upland buffer typically that we would preserve i heard about a beautiful mechanical garden on the other project nearby we probably have similar vegetation and trees so there might be an opportunity for something similar to what they were talking about earlier so yeah that's our best opportunity is that and we do want it to look mature we do want to buffer especially the residential to the north but we want it to be an attractive luxurious site that will be successful and so that is the key component to that and we will do a very specific site tree survey and we'll make sure that we work around all the native mature trees as best we can yeah we're done i'm gonna sit down because i'm gonna hopefully unload um i probably know maradona as good as any and uh we have really worked hard up there to try to make the north courtney corridor a business corridor and we've tried not to add the negative impacts of some of the things that have gone through there um this this site just doesn't justify in in anybody's mind that the true merit islanders where it makes sense to operate or to have this in this triangle you you've got a tremendous tremendous business and you got you had two great spokesmen today uh talk about a piece there that has been under development for four years just trying to get the permits and try to meet all the requirements etc etc and now this thing has become a three and four hundred thousand dollar a lot location and that's what you really want up there everybody owns land up there i'm just i'm one of those people we all own land and when you start talking about more modular homes rv things the inside talk is up there they call it the combat zone nobody said nobody nobody said that today but nobody checked with the sheriff's office see how many times you go up there and there's negative things going on up there you can't get a pizza delivered to your house home in north maryland island on a tremendous piece of land because they don't want to go up there they're not going to tell you that but it's just you have to understand that area up there it's just it's not designed it's designed for houses of major magnitude you've got blue origin just surrounds us you've got spacex that tried to buy us out every day and so this is not a by no means i there is no way i can support anything i can't support a binding development plan for anything other than it's just not conducive to north maryland anybody else i'm going to make a motion we deny the request we got a motion by this is for item h3 the lpa item got a motion by henry to deny a second by robert all those in favor to deny say aye aye any opposed nay who's that and that's robert a item h4 well they're they're running in pairs i make a motion we didn't also deny h4 i'll second it motion by henry a second by erica all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed nay mr robert all right meeting adjourned the opinions expressed by any member of the