Will elections make a difference to Palestinians living under Israeli occupation? — Inside Story

[0:01] Palestinians are exercising their democratic right to vote, but the municipal elections [0:06] alienated most factions. The Palestinian Authority's party, Fatah, and its affiliates [0:11] claim victory. Will the elections make a difference to a people under Israeli occupation [0:15] and violence? This isn't such a story. Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Imran Khan. [0:37] Local elections are one of the few ways for Palestinians to exercise their democratic rights, [0:41] but this weekend's vote appears to have diluted that. No ballots were cast in two politically [0:47] important areas in the occupied West Bank, Ramallah and Nablus, because only one list registered and [0:54] turnout was 23% in Deir al-Bala, the only area in Gaza where voting happened. Most candidates were [1:02] from the Palestinian Authority's Fatah party and its affiliates. Hamas, which has been in control of [1:07] Gaza since 2007, stayed away. The PA says the elections were for Palestinian unity. Will the [1:14] vote achieve that? And will it make any difference to Palestinians living under Israeli occupation and [1:20] violence? We'll raise these issues with our guests. But first, this report by Dmitry Medvedenko. [1:27] This is Deir al-Bala in Gaza. The destruction after two and a half years of Israel's war [1:34] is visible. For the first time since 2006, the city has held municipal elections. At the age of 34, [1:44] Adam is a first-time voter. I have been hearing about elections since I was born. [1:52] But because of the circumstances, no elections were taking place. [1:57] We want better things. We don't want to live like this. We have barely any water and it's salty. [2:03] We're tired of this life. The vote was organized by the Palestinian Authority, which governs the [2:10] occupied West Bank. It amended the law requiring candidates to accept the Palestinian Liberation [2:17] Organization's program and its agreements with Israel. Hamas, which controls Gaza, and other [2:23] Palestinian factions boycotted the process. Candidates from the PA's party, Fatah, and its affiliates, [2:31] won almost half the seats in Deir al-Bala. Hamas downplayed the result. [2:39] What is required is to have complete electoral events at the presidential and legislative levels, [2:44] and the National Council too. These municipal elections are service-oriented and have no [2:50] political dimension. But Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas [2:56] says the vote was symbolic and a pilot project. [3:03] Gaza is an inseparable part of the state of Palestine. The elections were held there in the hope that when [3:08] things calm down, elections will be held across the entire Gaza Strip. [3:14] In the occupied West Bank, Fatah and its affiliates ran unopposed and won in many areas. [3:21] Turnout there was just over 50 percent. In Gaza, only 23 percent. [3:28] But some Palestinians in the Strip say the vote was an opportunity to stand strong during a fragile [3:34] ceasefire that Israel is violating every day, and while Trump's plan for Gaza's future sidelines Palestinians. [3:41] Our hope for these elections, God willing, is that they will reaffirm Palestinian nationalism, [3:51] prevent the erasure of Palestinian identity, and solidify our connection to this land, [3:56] our roots, and our ancestors. [4:00] Dmitri Medvedenko, Al Jazeera, for Inside Story. [4:04] Now let's bring in our guests. All of them are joining us from Ramallah in the occupied West Bank. [4:14] Ahmed Fatou is the spokesperson for Fatah and also known as the Palestine National Liberation Movement. [4:21] Jalal Abu Khater is a human rights advocate and policy manager at Hamla, a non-profit digital rights [4:28] organization. And Javier Abu'i is a political analyst and former communications director for the [4:34] Palestine Liberation Organization. A warm welcome to you all. I want to start with, Ahmed, first. [4:40] Almost every single aspect of Palestinian life is controlled by Israel. And that goes for all [4:47] three of you. Yet, these municipal elections, Ahmed, are important. Just walk us through why they are [4:54] important. Thank you for having me and greetings to your guests and audience. Of course, it's very [5:03] important for the Palestinian people to practice their democratic right and to elect their representatives [5:08] and leaders. In order to send a political message to the world that Palestine is a state and has a [5:15] governance and has a people who are fully aware of their rights and want to practice democracy, [5:19] despite the genocide, despite the destruction of the Israeli occupation that's surrounding our cities [5:26] and villages, threatening our life in every aspect. And here we are, standing tall and strong, [5:32] despite the genocide, to go to elect with a high election turnout rate that is one of the highest [5:39] in the region and probably around the world. That is a strong message that Palestinians are highly [5:44] educated and full aware of their rights and want to build their state and reconstruct their country, [5:49] despite the mass crimes of the occupation and the participation of Gaza and their rebel. [5:54] It sends a message that Gaza and West Bank is united under the Palestinian flag. [5:58] Javier, but this election wasn't about self-determination. It wasn't about self-rule. This was about [6:05] effectively municipal services, like picking up the trash. Does that dilute it? Because it really isn't that [6:13] important, surely. Thank you, Andran. I think historically, Palestinian municipal elections have been [6:21] extraordinarily important for the Palestinian national movement. Let's remember that right after the [6:27] starting on the Israeli occupation, Israel tried to have something like municipal elections 1972, [6:33] 1976, in an idea to divide Palestinians between the PLO outside and the people here. It didn't work for them. [6:40] In 1976, PLO candidates won almost every single set. And that's why we didn't have elections till the [6:46] Palestinian Authority came to Palestine. But I would not put these elections out of context. Very few people, [6:54] actually, compared to the amount of Palestinians who could vote myself in Ramallah, I couldn't vote myself. [7:00] And I think the expectations for what a municipal election could bring are too high. And just to give an [7:07] example, I mean, myself, I am from Bethlehem originally. One of the main problems that Bethlehem has is [7:13] traffic congestion. It could not be solved by a mayor. It would be solved by taking part of this 87% [7:20] of Bethlehem that is occupied by Israeli settlements and military bases. So in other words, it's always [7:27] important to have elections. But at the same time, we should not put those elections out of context. [7:32] Just one last point, Imran. I think the previous elections four years ago had much more competition [7:39] than the selections we just had this week. [7:42] Jalal, you're also unable to vote, but for a slightly different reason. You live in occupied [7:48] East Jerusalem. So you don't have any rights anywhere. You can't vote in the municipal elections [7:55] because of the apartheid system effectively. And you can't vote in occupied East Jerusalem either. So [8:01] what do the elections mean to you? [8:03] Thank you, Imran. I'll probably start with answering, well, correcting you slightly. I am [8:11] able to vote if I'm a resident in the city of Ramallah. However, as a resident in Jerusalem, [8:19] my locality is not Ramallah, but it's not excluding me to vote. I'm a big fan. I'm a very big proponent of [8:27] local elections of all kinds. Local elections reflect local values and democracy and trying to, [8:33] you know, find a way forward together for any type of community. And I'm really proud of Ramallah [8:37] and other places across the West Bank for the democratic semblance that the municipal elections [8:43] would have had in previous years. But this is not the case this year at all. I frequent Ramallah, [8:48] perhaps more than Jerusalem. And I've been very carefully following a situation where this municipal [8:54] election, which is local elections, it's not about Palestinian unity. It's about local representation [8:59] and belonging and services. In a way, as Kafir did mention, it does play a bigger role when people [9:06] feel like they belong in a democratic process. However, we should address the elephant in the [9:09] room is that there is no legitimate process of representation for the Palestinians, who I am one [9:15] of them as a Palestinian Jerusalemite. I feel excluded from these processes because there isn't a larger [9:21] process that includes me as a Jerusalemite. It doesn't even include, you know, just not West Bank, [9:25] Gaza, Jerusalem, also Palestinians elsewhere, in a way that would say this is a leadership that speaks [9:32] for the Palestinian people, whether it's between the river and the sea, or whether it's the Palestinian [9:35] people as a whole unit, you know, through the PLO. I don't feel this. So there is an exclusion that I [9:40] feel I'm always forced to face due to Israel and due to this kind of reality. Ahmed, one of the driving [9:47] forces that the Palestinian president was very keen to push was this is about Palestinian unity. Yet, [9:55] Mahmoud Abbas amended the election law to go back to what the PLO had actually said, [10:01] which is about recognizing Israel ending the armed struggle. That's something that Hamas could not [10:07] agree to. So effectively, Mahmoud Abbas froze out Hamas. What do you make of that accusation? [10:15] I believe that's not true. There was no precondition for the election. It was only asked that they [10:21] recognize that the PLO to be the sole representative of the Palestinian people, which is [10:25] quite, you know, well known already. But even that was removed later on. And the parties were [10:32] involved in the elections. The left participated, the PFLP and the Democratic Front has participated in [10:40] the elections. And the gates were open for anybody who want to nominate themselves. And despite the [10:45] calls and the campaign that was led by Hamas and the Islamist forces to boycott the elections, [10:51] we had a turnout rate of 56 percent. So that is a referendum by the Palestinian people that they [10:56] believe on the national unity and democratic process and believe in the landslide victory of [11:04] Fatih, that it's a referendum that they believe in the national... [11:07] Ahmed, you can't call it a landslide victory when not everybody voted and there was only 56 percent in [11:14] the areas that were allowed to vote. I want to come to Javier here. Javier, you're shaking your head [11:19] as Ahmed was speaking. Why? [11:20] Because, again, I think elections are a good thing. And in some places, the elections took place well. [11:29] But we cannot claim that those elections were as inclusive. I think there are many issues that [11:34] prevented people from presenting other lists in order to be able to compete. There are, of course, [11:40] there were economic matters that affected, of course, the participation here. But at the same time, [11:46] you know, I myself, I fully agree with the PLO political platform. But in order to put the [11:51] political platform as a condition to run for elections, this is something that prevented a [11:56] number of sources. And I myself, I spoke with some candidates. I spoke, for example, with people that [12:00] wanted to run in Ramallah. And they told me we were not willing to sign on those conditions. [12:06] I want to come to Jalal. The PLO, we just talked about that. That's the Palestine Liberation [12:12] Organization. It's the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people recognized by the [12:18] international community. The PA, the Palestinian Authority, is relatively new. It only came about [12:24] after the Oslo Accords in 1993. So the simple question I want to ask you, [12:29] as a Palestinian living in occupied East Jerusalem, has the PA been a failure? [12:34] The, you know, the PA is there. However, again, I repeat that there is no [12:42] legitimacy for it to be the body that, you know, rules over the Palestinian people and decides [12:48] over their faith and the future. There is a lack of any legitimacy due to the lack of any democratic [12:55] process, whether it's the PA or the main party, you know, the ruling party is Fatah indeed. And there [13:00] isn't a genuine democracy within the party that people can feel like this is a representation of [13:06] a huge, a major sector of the Palestinian society, especially those living under occupation. There [13:12] are many priorities for people living under occupation. These include literally the safety [13:16] of their lives and their livelihoods, the lands. There is an unprecedented settler advancement throughout [13:23] the West Bank over the last two years. And it feels like this PA has been absent from this [13:28] existential threat. So this is a problem where people feel like, where is the PA and why is it [13:33] claiming that this democratic process that for the municipality is a show of its success when we are [13:39] actually facing a different reality here on the ground? Ahmed, the criticism of the PA is, you know, [13:46] something that I hear all the time, particularly when I've lived in Palestine itself. And it's something, [13:53] you know, one of the things people say is that the Palestinians, the only people that have to give [13:58] guarantees under the security guarantee to the occupiers, that the Palestinian authority is a [14:04] functionary, not to the Palestinian people, but to the occupation. What do you make of that accusation? [14:10] These are false acquisitions. First of all, nobody asked them to give guarantees for the security of [14:16] the occupation. We only ask that we respect the PLO agreements of the past. I don't see any party in any [14:23] country in the world where they say you put preconditions for the government before going [14:26] to elections. I haven't heard the Labour Party, for example, in the UK saying, I won't recognize [14:31] the parliament if I go to the elections. But yet we hear it from the far right and the far left in [14:36] Palestine. Of course, that's false. Nobody put any preconditions. We're only saying that this is the PLO, [14:41] the sole representative of the Palestinian people, and we refuse wholeheartedly any external agenda or [14:46] agendas. And we're only going to a Palestinian national agenda that is made and created by the [14:53] Palestinians, but not by outside forces. And when we speak about democracy, I don't believe there is [14:58] anybody more democratic faction in Palestine more than Fatah. It is we who call for the elections of [15:03] the local elections. And it's we who call for the syndicate election, which we also win by first [15:08] majority. I believe your guests will also suspect or doubt that, but they could go back to the numbers. [15:13] And Hamas has participated under independent names, independent lists. So they need to revise their, [15:19] you know, information. This victory is a call by the Palestinian national [15:26] entities that we want a united front and we want a Palestinian program that is realistic and capable [15:32] of achieving actual results, not something imaginary and based on imagination and false promises from [15:39] outside. No, I want to come to Javier here. I mean, I don't want to turn this into [15:43] a Hamas versus Fatah kind of discussion here, but I do want to focus on the Palestinian Authority. [15:51] It was created, as I've said before, after the 1993 Oslo Accords, and it was designed to effectively [15:58] become the Palestinian government and the Palestinian governance system. That didn't happen because of [16:06] the occupation. Now, just run us through the reasons that the Palestinian Authority was effectively [16:11] strangled at birth, because I know you have opinions on this. But the Palestinian Authority, [16:20] I mean, when it came out to exist, it was part of an interim agreement that was supposed to last [16:26] only for five years, which is the Oslo interim agreement. And that's how we started to have [16:32] elections here in the occupied Palestinian territory, with the exception of East Jerusalem. But once again, [16:39] I think that the discussion should go into what are the prospects for a future of Palestinian democracy, [16:47] rather than what we have had now. So far, I don't see this as a referendum. It was not presented by [16:53] Fatah nor by any other party as a referendum. It was a very local election. Once again, in some places, [16:59] there was a very sincere competition. In many other places, there was no competition. And as a matter [17:06] of fact, you know, two of the most important municipalities for the history of the Palestinian [17:11] national movement, Nablus and Ramallah, did not have a competitive election. So in other words, [17:16] I think it's important to present the position that there was an election. I think it was very important [17:21] that Dilbalah was included in Gaza. But let's not take those elections out of context. [17:28] Let's not take the elections out of context, says Javier. Jalal, I want to put that to you because [17:35] most of Gaza has been destroyed. So they couldn't have elections. 60, 70% of the occupied West Bank is [17:44] either got illegal settlements on it, or illegal settlements are planned to be built by the Israelis, [17:50] some of them illegal under Israeli law, all of them illegal under international law. [17:55] You can't have elections. You can't have a democracy in those situations. What are your thoughts on that? [18:03] Sorry to be cheesy, but like you never say never, especially to things like this. There's always a [18:07] way and there's been solutions proposed in the past where various international actors were willing to [18:13] intervene to guarantee that elections were held, especially in Jerusalem, where I'm from. I think the [18:18] big obstacle that stopped the last major election that was supposed to happen in Palestine was, [18:24] in my view, an excuse that Jerusalem was excluded due to Israeli occupation decisions. And I am aware [18:32] that that is not fully the case because there were many alternatives being proposed and being put forward [18:37] on the table for Jerusalemites to participate meaningfully in this process to ensure that East [18:41] Jerusalem is not excluded in any Palestinian national election process. [18:45] And I feel, and again, and again, and again, this is a political decision to escape accountability in front [18:52] of the populace, the people. The ruling party, again, is avoiding facing the people. And there are ways to [19:00] include not only Palestinians between the river and the sea, again, diaspora in a bigger process for the PLO. And [19:06] that's not really given the importance that it should be when there's such a crisis of representation. And we are in such a critical [19:14] position in our history as a Palestinian people. So it's important to have some kind of legitimacy for [19:20] any actor who's purchased to speak in the name of the Palestinian people going forward. [19:25] Ahmed, is it time to disband the PA and go back to the PLO and get Palestinian unity first, even if [19:34] that unity is fractured by opinion, but get unity first and renegotiate with the international community [19:41] for a different type of Palestinian authority. Are we at that stage? [19:47] Look, President Mahmoud Abbas made a decree calling for general elections and for a parliamentary [19:53] elections in November. So that was a clear form and a clear call by the Fatih movement led by [19:57] President Mahmoud to go for unity. And the only way to unite ourselves is through the ballot box. [20:02] And we are not afraid to go for election. We called all the Palestinian parties to go that way. [20:06] And we have called for a united front where we, under the dome of the PLO, that we devise our [20:12] political program, our national liberation agenda of how to face this catastrophic situation we are [20:19] living right now after three years of genocide and the ongoing genocide that did not stop until now. [20:24] And I have to point out that to your guests and the audience there, it seems a misunderstanding. [20:30] The local authorities that did not have elections, that because there was a victory by acclimation [20:38] and the consensus among the national parties. So when there is, that is by law, this is something [20:43] very common in everywhere around the world. When there is no competition, that means it's uncontested [20:48] elections. So therefore, automatically the list and or the consensus list is already winning. So that's [20:54] what happened in Ramallah and that's what happened in Nabi. [20:56] I don't think anybody disagrees with that. If no one disagrees with that, if you've got one candidate [21:02] and everybody votes for that candidate, that candidate is one. If there is competition and [21:06] a second candidate and people vote for that, that candidate is one. I don't think anybody disagrees [21:10] with that. What I would like to get to the bottom with you, Ahmed, is the fact that these elections were [21:19] held under extreme circumstances and do not represent the entirety of the Palestinian people. [21:26] That's a point you have to concede. [21:31] Of course, it is happening in an extreme situation. And that extreme situation is going to stay for [21:38] more than we expect. And we have to face it. We have to face it by uniting, geographically uniting [21:43] Palestine between West Bank and Gaza. Hamas need to end their coup that started in 2007 and go back to [21:49] the Palestinian house. We have to go to the elections in Jerusalem. This is not something [21:53] symbolic. This is a matter of sovereignty. East Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine, [21:57] and we will not accept anything to undermine these facts. And regarding the Palestinian diaspora, [22:03] when we call for the PNC, the Palestinian National Council elections, which include 350 seats, [22:09] 200 in the occupied Palestinian territories, and 150 from the diaspora, then that is a representative [22:16] for the old Palestinian all around the world. And we are calling for elections, not for... [22:21] Sorry, Ahmed, I'm going to stop you there because I want to come to the other... [22:23] Ahmed, I want to stop you there because I want to come to the other guests as well. [22:26] Javier, you know, let's talk about this in terms of kind of how you move forward. [22:33] Now, we've had these elections. They are a symbol, says, you know, [22:38] Fatah and a lot of other people, actually, of Palestinian unity. That surely is the most important [22:44] thing here, not the fact that most Palestinians couldn't vote. Do you think? [22:52] No, I entirely disagree. Again, once again, I think some places would really have participation, [22:58] and it was important to have elections, but we cannot claim that this, that the Palestinian [23:03] decision-making process is as inclusive as it should be. And looking forward, I think it's very [23:09] important to pick on elements that have been raised. For example, elections for the Palestinian [23:14] National Council that is supposed to represent all Palestinians worldwide. I have never myself [23:19] elected anyone for the Palestinian National Council. And I think it's very important that this [23:23] opportunity could be given. But in order to go to those elections, you need to have agreements [23:28] with your political parties. You need to have an electoral registry that I don't think so far [23:34] it's there for Palestinians in exile. So in other words, I think there's so much work to do. [23:39] There are elements that Palestinians in exile in particular, they don't [23:45] trust much about how things are being done. But I also believe that if we are able to unite as [23:50] Palestinians with the goal of ending the Israeli occupation, I think there is still an opportunity. [23:58] Jalal, what do you think that opportunity is then? If, you know, we're talking about ending the [24:04] occupation as the end goal of all of this, then perhaps Palestinian Authority municipal elections, [24:10] you know, picking up the trash, providing services are a bit of a distraction, do you think? [24:17] Not at all. I don't think it's a distraction. I think we need to encourage local democracy, [24:22] just because I do foresee, you know, a collapse of this entire institution of the of the of the PA. [24:29] And I'm seeing the financial trouble that people are going through on an individual person level. [24:34] I'm seeing the level of coercion it takes to actually control and to influence the results [24:39] of, you know, major decisions in politics and elections locally. I can see how, you know, [24:45] volatile everything is. And I believe that there needs to be some form of local representation for [24:50] people. And if we see more, you know, localities processing in a way where it would elect a form [24:59] of leadership, it could actually provide a voice for Palestinians who are living in these communities [25:05] under occupation where people feel like, oh, we belong to this. But the problem with this current [25:09] process is the fact that it's exclusionary of various groups of Palestinian society. And also, [25:17] it's not really fully representative of Palestinians living under occupation. Yes, a high turnout. [25:22] However, there are no signs that would make me feel encouraged about the results of this [25:28] current municipal elections. I just do believe that we do need to encourage any kind of process [25:34] that goes on locally to encourage participation. Ahmed, I started this conversation by asking you, [25:40] you know, these important, these elections are important because they show that the Palestinians [25:45] are united. That's the Fatah position. Is anything that you've heard over the last [25:51] half hour made you change your mind on that? Or do you still think that these are [25:55] very important to show the world that the Palestinians are united? [25:59] Well, we have to look to the facts on the grounds. This was an inclusive election. The door was open [26:05] for any faction to go to make and register a list for this party. That's very difficult to do when your [26:11] house has been destroyed in Gaza. It's very difficult to do when you can't get to certain places in [26:17] the West Bank. Of course, if you allow me, if you allow me, with the situation in Gaza, [26:22] we have a genocide and our people are decimated. Many of them are living in refugee tents. They have [26:28] scarcity in food and in medicine and everything. The 10R was 22% in Daryl Balach in the middle of [26:35] Gaza. And Daryl Balach was capable to go for the vote because among the destruction in Gaza, it was the [26:39] least. It had 45%, I believe, destruction. And we have to point out to the elephant in the room, [26:45] the one who stopped democracy is Hamas coup in 2007. Gaza is banned from voting since 2007 because of [26:52] Hamas. Now, thankfully, they have revised that decision and what allowed for this election to [26:57] take place after the catastrophic destruction that they caused it through their own strategic [27:02] thinking and going unilaterally into an adventure that was not voted nor has been discussed with the [27:09] Palestinian national factions. We have been doing elections since 2007. That did not stop. We have went to [27:14] the local elections in different occasions, 2022 and in 2018 and so on. And we have did, [27:20] and we have made the syndicate's election just recently. And we are going to the PNC election in [27:26] November and actually to Fatah elections. Ahmed, sorry, we have run out. We have run out of time. [27:32] And I did give you a clear run to say your piece. And you've put Fatah's position very, very clearly [27:39] there. I want to thank all our guests, Ahmed Fatah, Jalal Abu Khater and Javier Abu Eid. [27:45] And I want to thank you as well for watching. You can see the program again anytime by visiting our [27:51] website, Al Jazeera.com. And for further discussion, go to our Facebook page. That's [27:54] Facebook.com forward slash AJ Inside Story. And you can also join the conversation on X. [28:00] Our handle is at AJ Inside Story. That's it from me, Imran Khan and the team here in Doha. [28:06] Al Jazeera's coverage continues in just a moment. Stay tuned.