Why is Pakistan hosting Iran-US peace talks? — The Global Story

[0:00] How did Pakistan, a country that had barely been on the U.S. radar in recent years, win [0:10] over President Trump and somehow become the unlikely mediator in this war? [0:15] Despite all the mixed messages that we've been seeing in the last 48 hours, preparations [0:19] have been underway in Pakistan for the U.S. and Iran to negotiate an end to this war. [0:26] The fragile ceasefire is due to expire this Wednesday. [0:29] And while it's not clear what exactly might happen next, one thing that has become clear [0:35] is that a South Asian country little known for global diplomacy has emerged as the key [0:41] potential peacemaker in this fight, and President Trump seems impressed. [0:45] From the BBC in London, I'm Asma Khalid, and welcome to Global Story on YouTube. [0:56] I am Caroline Carey Davis. [0:58] I am based here in Islamabad. [1:00] I'm the BBC's Pakistan correspondent. [1:03] And yeah, I've been keeping a very close eye on the talks and the discussions that have [1:07] been going on in Islamabad. [1:10] This is not necessarily a role that Pakistan has played, at least quite as prominently as [1:15] before. [1:16] So it's a really interesting time to be in Islamabad, in the capital, and seeing the world's eyes [1:22] on what's going on in Pakistan. [1:23] Kerry, on the surface, it might seem surprising, I think, to many listeners that Pakistan is [1:28] holding these talks. [1:29] I would say for many Americans, this is a country that has been somewhat off of the public radar [1:35] since Osama bin Laden was killed in 2011. [1:38] Yeah, is that right? [1:39] 2011. [1:40] And it hasn't been historically a huge priority for US foreign policy over the last several [1:46] years, I would say compared to all of those years during the war on terror. [1:50] If someone had told you even just two years ago that Pakistan would be America's chosen [1:55] place for peace talks, what would you have thought? [1:57] I think it's been really surprising. [2:01] The more you look at it, the more you think about it, it starts to become a bit clearer [2:04] about why Pakistan is playing this role. [2:05] And the US-Pakistan relationship has been something that's really kind of flourished in the course [2:10] of less than the last year or so, really. [2:14] So it's a really recent change in a transition. [2:17] There have been a few other things that Pakistan has done as well that seems to have got them [2:22] into Trump's good books. [2:24] So one of them was the fact that Pakistan nominated President Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. [2:29] That was after the Pakistan-India crisis that happened in 2025. [2:34] And they put out a comment saying we're nominating him and this is in recognition of his decisive [2:39] diplomatic intervention during that crisis. [2:41] Pakistan and India have a very long running conflict. [2:46] And occasionally this sparks off between the two into actual sort of like a bigger conflict. [2:52] And this was particularly what happened in May of 2025. [2:57] And it's obviously a moment of high tension because both countries have nuclear weapons. [3:01] And so whenever something like this happens, it is a moment of international concern and [3:07] major worry. [3:08] There was a de-escalation after sort of several weeks of build up and some real tense moments. [3:13] India was involved in brokering that. [3:15] And of course, Pakistan gave President Trump that real win of being able to say you played [3:20] a crucial role. [3:21] And it was not something that we heard in the same degree that was coming from India. [3:25] So a lot of people have looked at the way that Pakistan kind of positioned itself after [3:29] this conflict and says they really understood what President Trump and his team were looking [3:34] for by giving him that credit and publicly saying that several times over. [3:38] And then nominating him, of course, for the Peace Prize, which he's so wanted. [3:41] Yes. [3:42] And the other thing that we've also seen was that Pakistan also handed over the man that [3:47] was accused of planning the Kabul airport bombing, which that happened during the withdrawal [3:53] of the U.S. from Afghanistan. [3:55] Three and a half years ago, ISIS terrorists killed 13 American service members and countless [4:01] others in the Abbey Gate bombing during the disastrous and incompetent withdrawal from [4:07] Afghanistan. [4:08] Yeah. [4:09] I mean, Trump was so grateful of that. [4:11] I remember he actually addressed it during, I believe, his first address to Congress. [4:14] Tonight, I am pleased to announce that we have just apprehended the top terrorist responsible [4:21] for that atrocity. [4:22] And he is right now on his way here to face the swift sword of American justice. [4:28] So the sort of analysts that I've spoken to have said, look, this gave Trump two big wins. [4:35] They got into his good books quite early on after that. [4:39] I think the fact that those gave Trump something to talk about, good, positive talking points. [4:44] And again, it sort of indicates that Pakistan seemed to be able to recognize what it was that [4:51] President Trump would want from that relationship. [4:54] And so that seems to be the start of this dialogue between the two sides, is that those consecutive [5:00] things have started to build up this rapport. [5:02] I've heard President Trump repeatedly refer to one particular person in Pakistan, and that [5:06] is the army chief, Asa Munir. [5:09] He has referred to him with a lot of lofty language, often his favorite field marshal. [5:15] He's called him a great fighter, a very important guy, an exceptional human being. [5:18] The praise goes on and on. [5:20] Who exactly is he? [5:21] And why is it your sense that President Trump seems to trust him so much? [5:26] So their relationship kind of stems back to the summer. [5:29] So it was 18th of June. [5:32] There was a lunch held in Washington between Asa Munir, field marshal Asa Munir, as he is [5:39] now, and President Trump, and that was of note, because again, there are not a huge number [5:44] of world leaders that get treated to lunch in the White House in that kind of prominent [5:49] way. [5:50] But also the fact that, as I say, I call him a world leader. [5:52] I mean, he's the head of the army, but he is not an elected official. [5:56] And in fact, there was no sign of Pakistan's prime minister at that particular lunch. [6:02] So that got a lot of notice as well. [6:05] And after that lunch, as you say, there was a lot of kind of positive language. [6:07] And one of the things I think was quite particular that was interesting that came out of it was [6:10] that President Trump talked about Pakistan knowing Iran very well. [6:14] So maybe some of the seeds of what we're seeing now potentially was sown back then in that [6:19] conversation. [6:20] From what we know, the way that President Trump often does international diplomacy, it's quite [6:25] often through these kind of person to person relationships. [6:29] And it's clear that that dynamic and that relationship is really strong. [6:34] And in terms of who Field Marshal Asamanir is, he's been the head of Pakistan's army since [6:41] the end of 2022. [6:45] And he was given the title of Field Marshal. [6:48] That was after the India-Pakistan crisis. [6:50] Which means exactly what, though, Carrie, because that's not a title I would say I'm particularly [6:54] familiar with. [6:55] But it means you're essentially the head of the armed forces. [6:57] Yeah. [6:57] I mean, he was already the head of the armed forces. [6:59] This is almost like another promotion above that. [7:01] And it's a job title that they've recently decided that he will have for the whole of [7:06] his life. [7:06] So it's essentially saying he's not just the head of the military. [7:09] He is the head. [7:10] Like he has been given this very sort of honorific title. [7:12] So it's even more of a kind of accolade for him as well. [7:14] But as well as that, at the end of last year in 2025, there was an amendment done to the [7:23] constitution here in Pakistan. [7:25] And that amendment also gave Field Marshal Asamanir lifetime immunity from arrest and [7:32] from prosecution as well. [7:34] So people often describe the system of government here in Pakistan as being a hybrid system between [7:38] a democratically elected government and military. [7:42] And the influence of the military over that political system kind of waxes and wanes at [7:48] different times. [7:49] A lot of people saw the fact that that constitutional change happened and was voted through as an [7:54] indication that we are on the more extreme end of the hybrid system at the moment with [7:58] a lot more military influence. [7:59] This is obviously something that the military here deny being involved in politics. [8:02] But that's what a lot of analysts look at the system and say, if he's able to get [8:06] that level of influence and that level of power and lifelong immunity, then that suggests we're [8:12] more on that end of the spectrum. [8:13] And I think it's really interesting that you will see and you have heard a lot about Field [8:18] Marshal Asamanir. [8:19] So we know that President Trump certainly likes diplomacy through personal relationships. [8:25] And you've described a situation in which he really respects, it seems, the Field Marshal [8:30] there in Pakistan. [8:31] When did Pakistan first come into play as the key primary negotiator in these talks? [8:37] So we first started getting indications, hints, that Pakistan might be involved at the end [8:45] of March. [8:46] So around the 23rd of March, 24th of March was when we started hearing kind of rumours [8:50] that Pakistan might be running the back channel talks between Iran and the U.S. [8:56] And then we had a post on social media by Shabazz Sharif, the Pakistan's prime minister, [9:03] offering to host what they called meaningful and conclusive talks to try to find some form [9:10] of solution. [9:10] We weren't entirely sure what on the spectrum Pakistan was doing. [9:14] So on the one end of the spectrum, you've got a country that could in theory kind of [9:20] go like really push the other sides to come to the negotiating table and come up with some [9:25] form of deal. [9:26] But on the other end of the spectrum, you've got essentially a go-between who's passing [9:29] messages back and forth. [9:30] So are they on the side of a kind of intermediary or are they essentially just a messenger? [9:36] So where did they sit on that spectrum? [9:38] And I think to start with, we thought there was definitely a messenger element. [9:43] But now as things have progressed, we're looking like it's much more likely to be moving towards [9:49] a kind of more of an intermediary role where they seem to be going a lot more back and forth. [9:53] So after weeks of fighting in Iran, we see an announcement of the ceasefire. [9:58] Yeah, so it came in a few different stages. [10:00] So the first of all, we had this countdown to President Trump saying that he was going [10:05] to go in and cause the death of a civilization with the sort of messages he put out on social [10:10] media. [10:11] And we had this countdown to that. [10:13] And in the run up to that, we started hearing whispers here in Pakistan that Pakistan was [10:19] still running these back channels. [10:20] And then in the run up to that countdown, a few hours before this countdown was due to [10:25] finish, we got a message from Pakistan's prime minister essentially calling on both [10:30] sides to follow a ceasefire. [10:34] We firstly heard from the US, who said that provided the Strait of Formus would be opening, [10:41] that they would not go ahead with the planned attack. [10:48] And then we heard from Iran saying that provided that there were certain levels of ceasefire followed, [10:55] that they would not go ahead, that they would reopen the Strait of Formus. [10:58] And then we got, just before this deadline was due to reach, we got a post from Pakistan's [11:05] prime minister saying that there was a ceasefire that was agreed. [11:10] So, and also saying that they would be wanting to host talks in Islamabad. [11:18] So tell us about these initial talks. [11:20] They were on April 11th and 12th and you were there? [11:23] Yes. [11:23] So the delegations arrived, Iran arrived first, and we could tell that Iran was coming in because [11:30] it was around sort of midnight, we started hearing the noise of Pakistani fighter jets [11:35] echoing across the city. [11:37] And that is because... [11:38] Escorting them essentially. [11:39] Yeah, exactly. [11:40] So they escorted them in into the airspace. [11:43] So that was our sort of first indication that we've been waiting to hear whether they were coming [11:48] in or not and watching the sort of the radar systems as well. [11:51] That was our first indication, yes, they are about to land in Islamabad. [11:55] And then it was around 10 o'clock in the morning. [11:57] We also heard the fighter jets again. [11:59] I was standing outside doing lives and we suddenly heard the fighter jets. [12:02] And that was the arrival of Vice President J.D. Vance also coming in. [12:07] So there'd been a lot of tension about whether both sides were going to come. [12:11] Both sides ended up in Islamabad. [12:13] The then big question was, are they going to sit in the same room in front of each other? [12:18] Yeah, that's not always been the case when the US and Iran have engaged in discussions [12:23] and negotiations. [12:24] Sometimes they're in different rooms and it's sort of shuttle diplomacy where messages [12:27] are being passed back and forth between the rooms. [12:29] So the question was, are they going to sit in the same room? [12:31] And we had relatively little information about these talks, although we had some sort of public [12:36] messaging from both sides talking about like the basis that was a sort of the US talked [12:40] about a 10 point plan that had been put forward. [12:41] There was a lot of confusion about what was in any of these plans. [12:44] So it was an awful lot of very little information and a lot of secrecy around exactly what was [12:51] going to happen, which is understandable because the situation is incredibly delicate. [12:56] And where were you in relation to where the talks were happening? [12:58] Where were the journalists? [13:00] We were inside the red zone, but we were just across the road in a convention center that [13:05] they had set up for us. [13:06] So we could go and stand on the lawns of that convention center and see the hotel where this [13:10] was happening. [13:10] But we were not allowed in. [13:13] But you couldn't grab the diplomats to, for example, just quickly have a sidebar or anything [13:17] of that sort. [13:18] This was tantalizingly close because you could see across and you could see the convoys, [13:24] but you obviously had no idea what was going on, even though we were just across the other [13:27] side of the road. [13:28] We've been at it now for 21 hours and we've had a number of substantive discussions with [13:35] the Iranians. [13:36] That's the good news. [13:37] So early Sunday morning local time, April 12th, we saw the American Vice President, [13:43] J.D. Vance, deliver some remarks. [13:46] The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement. [13:49] And I think that's bad news for Iran much more than it's bad news for the United States [13:52] of America. [13:53] He essentially said that they were leaving Iran with their best offer. [13:57] We go back to the United States having not come to an agreement. [14:00] We've made very clear what our red lines are, what things we're willing to accommodate [14:04] them on and what things we're not willing to accommodate them on. [14:07] But the suggestion was that, you know, that there was no deal that was reached. [14:11] It didn't sound promising. [14:12] And they have chosen not to accept our terms. [14:16] When we were all sitting in that conference hall and suddenly heard there is no deal, I [14:20] think a lot of people's instant reaction was disappointment, particularly for the sort [14:25] of Pakistan delegation that were there that were really, you know, hoping that this would [14:28] be the big breakthrough moment. [14:30] But then as the hours and the days kind of went on, there was a little bit more noise [14:36] that made us feel like maybe this is not the end of it. [14:40] And one person I spoke to said, you know, when you go and look around a house, you don't [14:47] just look around the first time before you put an offer in. [14:50] Sometimes you might, I suppose. [14:51] I mean, sometimes if you, yeah, there's occasions, I suppose. [14:55] If you really love it. [14:57] Yes. [14:58] But I think a lot of the time, his suggestion, yeah, his suggestion was that it takes some [15:03] time to build up that trust. [15:05] Especially when you've had no real diplomatic relationship for years, as the Americans and [15:09] the Iranians have it. [15:10] Completely. [15:10] And I think there was sort of little hints that, again, it's difficult to know whether [15:13] you're, you know, over-reading into things. [15:15] But it was the fact that the Iranian delegation was saying things like, the US didn't win our [15:20] trust on this meeting. [15:21] So then a lot of people started looking at that and going, well, does that mean that's [15:25] it? [15:26] Or does that mean they didn't win their trust this meeting, but that's opening the door [15:29] for more meetings? [15:31] Okay, so we've already gotten some sense of why the Trump administration is turning to [15:35] Pakistan for these talks. [15:37] But what about Iran? [15:39] I mean, I imagine that Iran is not going to trust any of the Gulf countries. [15:43] These are some of the very countries that they have been hitting during this war. [15:46] They're not going to trust a country like Saudi Arabia, which tries to pride itself in being [15:51] the leader of Sunni Islam. [15:53] And Iran, of course, is a majority Shia country. [15:56] And in fact, to this point of some of the sectarianism of this all, we got a question from [16:01] one of our listeners named Donald. [16:03] Not that one sitting in the White House, but a different Donald who asked us about how [16:07] the Sunni-Shia sectarianism is factoring into this conflict. [16:10] And, you know, just to explain really broadly here, I mean, Sunni and Shia are the two main [16:15] denominations of Islam. [16:18] It's a divide that goes back centuries. [16:22] Does that sectarianism factor into why Iran might trust Pakistan in this all, Carrie? [16:29] I think that is quite key in this dynamic. [16:33] Pakistan has a large, it is a minority, but a large Shia population. [16:38] In fact, by many estimates, it is the second largest Shia population after Iran's Shia [16:44] population. [16:45] And obviously the fact that the two countries are next door neighbours, meaning that there [16:51] are a lot of people who are in Pakistan who will look to spiritual leadership from their [16:56] next door neighbour in Iran. [16:57] So there is a known connection there, a deep religious connection. [17:02] So that certainly plays an important part in this dynamic, too, and about why there is [17:09] a level of trust. [17:10] But it also, I think, explains a bit more about why Pakistan wants to be involved. [17:15] Pakistan has also got skin in the game here. [17:18] It's not just that they're doing this to try to help the entire world. [17:23] They would also be really quite damaged if this war escalates. [17:27] Firstly, Pakistan is highly dependent on imported oil and gas coming through from the Strait [17:31] of Hormuz. [17:32] So the fact that that blockage is there and the fact that the prices are so high has a [17:37] real impact in Pakistan. [17:38] Pakistan has got a fragile economy. [17:40] And obviously we know that when the fuel costs go up, then that affects lots of other things [17:44] and it filters through the whole economy and then you end up with inflation. [17:46] And that is a worry. [17:48] Another thing to bear in mind is that Pakistan has got a defence pact with Saudi Arabia. [17:54] Saudi Arabia, who has obviously been repeatedly hit by Iran during the course of this conflict. [17:58] And the concern is, does Saudi Arabia at some point decide to get involved with this conflict? [18:06] And if they do, do they invoke this defence pact? [18:09] Which puts Pakistan in this very difficult position because either they then say, OK, [18:14] we'll get involved too. [18:15] And then they are at war with their next door neighbour, which, as I say before, is likely [18:20] to be very unpopular. [18:22] I mean, I was going to say my family is Pakistani and both my grandparents knew Persian, right? [18:26] I mean, Farsi was a language that so many Pakistanis of older years knew. [18:31] So I imagine that puts them in such a tricky position if culturally you're so similar to [18:36] your neighbour and you're potentially going to be fighting them. [18:39] Yeah. [18:39] And also to bear in mind as well that they're already in an active conflict with Afghanistan [18:42] as well, which is their other neighbour, one of their other neighbours. [18:46] And then this ongoing animosity and occasionally sparking into very active conflict with their [18:53] other neighbour, India. [18:54] So that's three out of their neighbours that they could potentially be in conflict with. [18:58] That's not really a position I don't think that Pakistan would want to put itself into. [19:03] But then the other position is if Saudi Arabia says, right, we're invoking this defence pact [19:06] and Pakistan says, no, Saudi Arabia is a very important economic ally. [19:13] So that puts Pakistan in a real situation. [19:17] So there are lots of reasons why Pakistan wants this conflict to die down and diminish. [19:23] For their own national reasons, as well as the sort of international reasons, Pakistan [19:27] also has something to lose from this. [19:29] So we've talked about Pakistan's relationship with Iran. [19:31] We've talked about what Pakistan would potentially gain if the situation de-escalates, if this [19:38] war ends. [19:40] And we've talked about President Trump's personal relationship and trust with the army chief. [19:44] But is there something else that explains why the United States, the Trump administration [19:49] broadly trusts Pakistan to be the key negotiator here? [19:53] Yeah, and they are definitely the key negotiator. [19:54] There are other things that people have highlighted between Pakistan and the US about building that [19:59] trust. [19:59] One of those things is cryptocurrency. [20:03] OK, explain that, because I've seen a little bit of that in the press and my eyes kind of gloss [20:08] over sometimes with that. [20:08] It's a bit of a wonky story. [20:10] I'll keep it kind of like broad brushstrokes as well, as much as we can. [20:15] But obviously, President Trump's family have a cryptocurrency venture, which is called World [20:20] Liberty Financial. [20:21] That was launched in the middle of the presidential campaign. [20:24] There is a lot of interest in crypto here in Pakistan. [20:28] Pakistan. And in particular, in January, we saw Pakistan signed an agreement with World [20:35] Liberty Financial. And that was a memorandum of understanding to explore World Liberty Financial's [20:42] stablecoin for cross-border payments. [20:45] Now, the exact details of that, of how that's being explored is not entirely clear at the moment. [20:51] But it was interesting when that agreement was signed, we were given images of Steve [20:58] Wyckoff's son, Zach Wyckoff. [20:59] Huh. Which Steve Wyckoff, we should remind listeners, is President Trump's top advisor, has been so key in negotiating so many of these conflicts around the world. [21:09] Exactly. And a key negotiator for the Iran discussions as well. [21:14] So I think what a lot of people found really interesting and what I found interesting was seeing that image that came out, which was Zach Wyckoff flanked by some very, very senior figures from, in fact, the most senior figures from Pakistan's establishment surrounding him. [21:29] And the fact that that picture was put out quite prominently as well, as being a clear indication that Pakistan wanted that image out there. [21:38] OK. [21:38] So the exact connections between how this operates and obviously the White House has repeatedly said there are no conflict of interests that the Trump family engage with. [21:52] And Pakistan, sorry, has also said that, you know, this is all about engaging with credible global players, they say, to try to understand crypto and its impact and make sure that Pakistan is connected. [22:01] I think what a lot of people saw with that photo was that Pakistan, again, is creating very strong connections with people that are also close to President Trump in a circle, in an area that is not directly politics. [22:18] Keri, you mentioned earlier what Pakistan itself has to gain in trying to de-escalate the situation. [22:23] But it strikes me that part of this is also about soft power. [22:28] You know, if you're the negotiator here, particularly if you're a country that hasn't really been huge on the international radar, right, let's say for the last number of years, it's about branding your image abroad and also kind of cementing your power at home. [22:42] And I'm curious how you see that all play out. [22:46] I think it's a really interesting question. [22:48] And I think that, you know, we talked about all the other reasons why Pakistan would want to get involved, but it's certainly getting noticed. [22:56] It's certainly being talked about in a way that I think Pakistan is quite enjoying being talked about. [23:01] I see those memes on the Internet a bit about J.D. Vance in Pakistan. [23:05] Oh, yeah, there's been a lot of memes. [23:07] There's been a lot of, like, AI generated of him, like, eating lots of different types of Pakistani food or having, like, selfies with Shabazz Sharif or other sort of, like, him enjoying lots of different things that can... [23:19] And are Pakistanis taking pride in that? [23:21] Yeah, I think that there is a pride, actually. [23:24] I mean, the day after this ceasefire was announced by Pakistan's prime minister, there was a headline in one of the Pakistan newspapers saying that Pakistan had saved a civilization, [23:34] which is, of course, a reference to the fact that President Trump had said that a civilization will die tonight. [23:40] People are, like, I think, really pleased that Pakistan is being thought about in a different way on the international stage. [23:48] And I also think that there is a level to which, like, now Pakistan is being seen as well by other countries around the world. [23:53] If you look at the foreign minister's ex-account and you see all the phone calls that he is having with his representatives, his equivalents, his partners around the world, [24:05] all these foreign ministers who are calling into Pakistan, and suddenly people might be looking at Pakistan and going, [24:10] well, maybe we should, you know, factor Pakistan in or maybe we should be talking to Pakistan in a different way. [24:16] Or at least I think that's what Pakistan hopes might happen as a result of this. [24:20] What's really interesting about this is not hopefully just that, you know, there will be some form of end to the fighting, [24:27] but it's not, it's bigger than that. [24:28] And Pakistan has kind of slipped itself into this position and essentially, like, marched into the fray and said, you know, we can help here. [24:38] And this is a very different way to how a lot of these negotiations often operate. [24:42] The key kind of bodies that maybe we would have thought of that would have been at the heart of facilitating these negotiations, [24:48] maybe the countries that have previously done this, that they're not the ones taking this rule. [24:53] So I think it's another indication of how our world is changing and how the rules of engagement are changing and how certain countries are approaching that change. [25:03] And while some countries are, I think, waiting to see how the dust settles, [25:09] how this new structure and the system is going to work before they decide to put themselves into the heart of it. [25:16] Other countries like Pakistan are jumping in and are hoping that they can kind of carve out this new role for themselves and a new way of being perceived. [25:27] That's it for The Global Story on YouTube. [25:29] Thanks as always for tuning in. [25:31] And if you enjoyed what you saw today, I've got to mention that our show, The Global Story, is also available as an audio podcast. [25:38] You can find us every weekday on BBC.com or wherever you find your favorite shows.