Why GLP-1s may or may not be for you — Chasing Life

[0:02] Hey there. Welcome to Chasing Life. You know, when Ozempic first hit the market in 2017, [0:08] it was the start of a revolution. The medication approved to treat type 2 diabetes [0:14] was also helping people lose weight. Sometimes a lot of it. And that fact did not go unnoticed. [0:20] The drug seemed to usher in a paradigm shift in the field of weight management. [0:25] Other GLP receptor agonists, as they are called, soon followed. Mugovie, Monjaro, [0:31] ZepBound. They help millions of people do what they had been unable to do before. [0:36] Lose weight, seemingly without effort. So demand for them surged, no surprise. [0:41] And since their widespread use, so has our understanding of them. [0:46] The landscape has changed a lot since we first reported on these drugs on Chasing Life. [0:51] So today we're bringing back my friend and colleague, Meg Terrell, who has been covering [0:55] them since the start. She's going to update us on what is new, what's on the horizon. [1:00] And let me tell you, there's a lot to talk about. I'm CNN Chief Medical Correspondent, [1:05] Dr. Sanjay Gupta. And this is Chasing Life. Welcome back to Chasing Life. [1:17] Thank you for having me. [1:18] Well, my favorite guest. You and I, we know each other so well. We work together. [1:23] But I just so respect your reporting. And I don't know if you realize this, [1:27] but the last time we talked about GLP drugs was more than two years ago. [1:31] The last time we talked on the podcast, you and I talk about them constantly. [1:33] We talk about it all the time, yes. We have a lot of conversations, Meg and I. [1:36] But yeah, for the podcast, for our audience two years ago. And there's a lot that has changed since [1:41] then. And I want to really focus on that. But I'm just curious overall, just the headline here, [1:48] I think it was 2017 or so when Ozempic hit the market. Like how big a deal really are these GLP [1:54] drugs now in the market? In terms of medicines, drugs, these are some of the biggest drugs of all [2:01] time. You're talking about in terms of money spent on them? In terms of money spent, but also the number [2:05] of people who are taking these. I mean, there are millions of people are now on GLP-1 drugs, [2:10] most of them for weight loss, also for diabetes. And increasingly, they're getting approved for [2:16] other indications. They're showing they work for liver disease, chronic kidney disease, [2:19] osteoarthritis, sleep apnea, preventing a second heart attack or stroke if you've already had one, [2:24] heart failure. I mean, they're being tested in so many different things. So they're huge. [2:29] Does this surprise you? And I'll preface by saying you've been covering this for a long time, [2:33] I think since the start, you know, here obviously, but also at CNBC. When you first started reporting [2:39] on this, could you have predicted where we would be in 2026? No, no. What was it that gave you pause? [2:47] Well, the industry has tried this before. They've tried to develop drugs for weight loss before, [2:52] and they haven't been successful. They had side effects. They were dangerous to take for some [2:56] people. And they didn't produce very much weight loss. So they just weren't, you know, [3:00] they weren't working for a lot of people. And so the industry was kind of shy to come to [3:05] obesity drugs again. And then this class of diabetes drugs and sort of tellingly, [3:11] it's these huge companies in diabetes, Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk, which have worked in insulin for [3:16] almost a century that brought these drugs to the market for obesity. And I mean, these drugs work [3:23] for both diabetes and obesity, and now all of these other things as well. [3:27] The initial sort of thinking was that if you started these drugs, you're probably going to be [3:33] on them for your whole life. And I think there was some data a couple of years ago when we were [3:38] working on a documentary that showed that a pretty significant percentage of people were stopping [3:42] these medications. And it was either because of cost, side effects, or they sort of felt like it got [3:50] them to where they wanted to be. And now they were just going to use lifestyle changes to sort of [3:54] maintain. What are you seeing? I mean, is there a way of contextualizing how long people stay on these [3:59] medications, or if they do stay on them for life? Yeah, well, the idea is essentially that it's not [4:05] changing your body really, other than that you're losing weight. But essentially, if you stop taking these [4:11] medications, your appetite does go up. We've heard from people sort of anecdotally saying like, I felt [4:16] like I hadn't eaten in a year. And she was like, I guess I hadn't, you know, because she'd been taking [4:20] this medicine and her appetite was so suppressed, but just revved back up. But I think it can be [4:24] different for everybody. I mean, the studies show that the majority of people, if you stop taking one [4:29] of these drugs, they do regain at least some of the weight, but not everybody does. People are different. [4:35] And so I think that's really fascinating. And it probably also has to do with what happened when you were on [4:41] the drug in terms of what changes you made in your own life. I mean, did you start cooking differently? [4:46] Did you start exercising more and find something you enjoy and that you could keep doing? So I think [4:50] those are some of the big questions. I also think, as you noted, a big reason people would stop is, [4:56] I mean, the cost was so high and it still is really high in a lot of ways, but it's also come down [5:01] dramatically for some of these options. And I think a hope is that it'll enable people who are benefiting [5:07] from the medicines to stay on them for longer. With these GLP drugs, they were originally for blood sugar [5:15] and then people noticed that they were losing significant amounts of weight. And now there are all these [5:20] other potential indications, seemingly unrelated, cardiovascular benefit, liver benefit. Can you talk [5:27] about some of those? What else have we learned in terms of the benefits? Well, I think this is so [5:31] interesting because a lot of those things people thought were just completely related to weight [5:35] loss. You know, Hey, if you lose 20% of your body weight, of course, you're going to have a lower [5:39] risk of having a heart attack or a stroke. And so I remember they did this huge cardiovascular [5:44] outcomes trial for Wagovi, which is the GLP one made by Novo Nordisk. It came out a couple of years [5:51] ago, 2024 is like 17,000 people. They looked at them over four or five years, 20% reduction. If you'd already [5:56] had a heart attack or stroke of having a second one. And I talked to this one cardiologist who was [6:00] like, you know, it's the weight stupid, you know, like, of course, it's the weight. And the thing was, [6:06] as they looked closer at those data, they found that regardless of how much weight people lost, [6:11] or maybe even if they didn't lose weight at all, they still had the benefit in reducing a second heart [6:17] attack or stroke risk. I mean, so there was something else going on. And the same thing has happened in [6:22] liver disease, the same thing has happened in chronic kidney disease, the same things happened in heart [6:25] failure. It's not just weight loss, the weight loss is probably helping in some ways. But so they're [6:31] doing basic research on this. Now, Dr. Daniel Drucker up at the University of Toronto, who's one [6:35] of the GLP one research pioneers, just had this mouse study that came out where they essentially [6:40] created these mice that don't have GLP one receptors in their brains. And so they couldn't lose weight [6:45] when given a GLP one drug. But what they found is that they had improved markers of this liver disease. [6:52] So they found these cells in the liver that essentially, when stimulated by GLP one, [6:56] tamped down on inflammation in the liver, regardless of whether the mites lost any weight. [7:00] And so they're finding that he's completely weight independent effects of these medicines, [7:04] and they're still trying to understand what is happening and why this is happening. Inflammation [7:09] does seem to be a big hypothesis of what is going on. But then of course, there's other things like [7:14] addiction. I mean, and that, of course, is probably totally unrelated to inflammation, [7:18] most likely. I mean, it has to do with what's going on with the food noise and that kind of [7:22] getting quieted down that we hear from a lot of people. You know, we try and be very careful [7:25] on this podcast not to be prescriptive about things, you know, or even making recommendations. [7:30] But it is it is interesting to hear about all the known benefits now beyond just weight loss of [7:36] these things and potential benefits in the future. Let me commingle two things which which are in the news [7:42] a lot lately. One is just peptides in general, you know, and two is off label use. So first of all, [7:50] GLP, the P is peptide. It is a peptide. Insulin is a peptide. These are peptides. I don't know how much [7:58] you you think about this aspect of things. But there's a lot of other peptides that people are [8:02] talking about in the wellness community and friends of mine who say, Yeah, I'm definitely taking these now. [8:08] It helps me. They're injecting themselves with these peptides. Have you have you learned anything [8:14] about these? I totally freaks me out. I just can't believe that this is so widespread. And that like, [8:22] these things are not widely tested. We haven't done the safety testing. I hear so much about people [8:26] who are like, we still don't know if GLP ones are safe. It's like these and through clinical trials and [8:32] tens of thousands of people, they've been looked at so closely. Regulators are studying them in the real [8:37] world all the time. And yet all these folks are taking these peptides that are completely [8:43] unregulated. You don't know exactly how they're made, who's making them, what the conditions are, [8:49] whether they're doing anything, whether they're what they say they are, even if they are what they [8:53] say they are. What are the safety risks of that? I mean, I just I can't believe that people are doing [9:00] this. I mean, one of these people who I'm talking about, one of my friends said, Oh, yeah, [9:04] I had a really bad reaction to taking it, they had to keep me in the office a lot longer, [9:09] take my blood pressure, I felt very faint, like I was going to pass out. And I'm thinking, [9:13] isn't this part of the problem? You know, like, there can be significant side effects. And a lot [9:17] of times are taking these in non medical settings, potentially really problematic. At the same time, [9:23] though, when it comes to GLP drugs, a lot of the testing has been done on very specific patient [9:29] populations, patients who have diabetes, patients who have obesity. But I think what we see is that [9:35] a lot of people are taking these off label, are not for the specific, you know, indications. [9:41] So how do you think about that? And what does that mean in terms of safety? Because we don't [9:45] have safety data on all the populations, like someone who's just taking it to lose a few pounds, [9:50] right, which I hear a lot of? How do you sort of frame that conversation for people? [9:54] Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing probably is that you're doing it under the [9:58] supervision of a trusted medical professional. And that's, I think, a real concern is that we're [10:04] hearing more and more about folks who are like, Yeah, I just decided I'm going to microdose this [10:08] thing. And I got it through this website, and I started taking it. And, you know, it frightens me a [10:13] little how easy it is to do that. And that you know, you're with a telemedicine doctor, you see ones for [10:18] five minutes over your phone, you never see that person again, they never check back in on you, [10:22] they will prescribe you something maybe, but I don't know, I just think that's what do you do, [10:26] then if you have a problem, you're not, you go to the ER, I guess. So that scares me a little. [10:32] I do think the idea of like, how do these drugs work in folks who don't have weight to lose is [10:36] something that's very interesting, especially as we start to look at them for things like addiction [10:40] or Alzheimer's. I mean, there's a lot of different indications where these could be used that have [10:45] nothing to do with weight, you don't want to lose weight, especially in an elderly person, [10:48] maybe you're not trying to lose more weight. And so I think that's very interesting. And the companies, [10:53] when you think about it, for sort of these cosmetic purposes, you know, I just have a few pounds to [10:57] lose, they've really stayed away from that. I mean, that is, even though it is a huge market, [11:02] and probably a huge number of people who are taking these medicines, they haven't tested that, [11:08] it's just not where they are. And so we don't really know other than the, you know, the real world use [11:14] of it. But I've also been hearing from doctors, they're getting really worried about people getting [11:19] too thin on these medicines. And I even talked to one doctor who was just saying, even, you know, [11:24] looking at some folks in Hollywood, I mean, looking at, you know, the modeling world, like, [11:29] thin seems to be having this, you know, resurgence, this is extreme thinness. And I think that is [11:35] worrying to a lot of people. [11:36] When I interviewed some of the, some of the scientists at Novo Nordisk in Denmark, one of the [11:42] things they said to me, interestingly, was that they sort of slow rolled the idea of using these [11:48] medications for weight loss initially. And they were very, they were very specific about it. They [11:53] just didn't think people would inject themselves for weight loss. Diabetics do, you know, for insulin, [11:58] but the idea that it would become as widespread as it has, that surprised them when I was interviewing [12:04] them in retrospect. But even at that time, there was a desire to say, hey, look, could we potentially [12:10] turn this into a pill? And they've done that now. And this is something you've been reporting on a [12:16] lot. First of all, why, why was that so challenging? Well, as you noted, GLP-1 is a peptide. And so it [12:23] is sort of this larger molecule. And so, you know, we can't swallow insulin, for example, because it [12:28] doesn't get, you know, broken down in a way that we can metabolize it in our bodies. And it's the same [12:34] problem for GLP-1. And so it gets churned up by your gastric acids and everything in your stomach. [12:39] Yeah, it doesn't have time essentially to, to act in the ways that it needs to in our body as a [12:43] medicine. So Novo Nordisk had to essentially develop a technology to enable it to be swallowed. And so [12:50] that our body could actually take it up as a medicine. And interestingly, the technology is [12:54] called SNAC. Oh, I didn't know that really? It's like S-N-A-C. Yeah, I cannot remember what it stands for. [13:00] But it essentially sort of buffers it and enables it to get into our cells in a way that, you know, [13:06] it gets metabolized. But for that reason, the Wagovi pill that they just got approved, you know, [13:12] essentially at the end of 2025, and went on the market in January, you have to take it first thing [13:17] in the morning, 30 minutes before eating or drinking much water, you can have like four ounces of water [13:22] with it. And you have to wait before taking other medicines, because it just changes the sort of [13:26] metabolism of everything. So that was sort of tricky. And I think they're very proud of the fact [13:31] that they engineered this to be able to work as a pill. But then you have Eli Lilly, [13:36] which developed a small molecule version of GLP-1 with or for glipron. Thankfully, [13:41] it's been approved. [13:42] These names are like crazy. [13:44] Now it has a brand name, Fandeo. And so that just got approved. And we haven't seen yet how many [13:50] people are taking it. But with the Wagovi pill, it was the fastest drug launch of all time. I mean, [13:55] hundreds of thousands of people, if you believe these Wall Street estimates, which have been coming out, [13:59] are taking the Wagovi pill already. And so I'm really interested to see how quickly the Fandeo [14:05] pill gets taken up as well. [14:07] Calling it the Wagovi pill for a second, how does it compare to the injection in terms of how well it [14:13] works and side effects? [14:14] It's actually pretty similar in terms of, I think, both of those things. We'll have to see how it [14:21] actually shakes out in the real world, but it doesn't appear to be significantly different. When you look [14:27] at the Lilly pill, Fandeo, it is not as effective, at least in clinical trials, certainly not as [14:32] Terzepatide, which is a Zep bound. But it also seems not to be as effective if you just compare, [14:37] and it's not apples to apples because they weren't head on compared in a clinical trial together, [14:41] but it doesn't look like it's as effective as the Wagovi pill in terms of its clinical trial results. [14:46] And we're going to have to see what the side effect profile ends up being for it. [14:49] And we'll have much more on the evolving landscape of GLPs with my colleague, [14:54] Meg Terrell, right after this short break. Let's talk about cost. And even before comparing the [15:05] pill to the injection, we heard about the President Trump plan to reduce costs. Like, [15:11] how has that sort of played out for the average consumer? [15:13] That actually did something. Often these things come out of different administrations, [15:19] and you're sort of like, what's this really going to do? And in general, the TrumpRx idea, [15:23] they have this new website where you can buy drugs directly from drug companies, and TrumpRx sort of [15:28] lists them on its website, they're not selling drugs. But they say they have a role in negotiating [15:32] the discounts. There are questions about how broadly helpful that is going to be for for drugs [15:38] generally. But for the GOP one drug class, it actually has played a part in bringing costs down [15:43] really significantly. And there may have been a price war anyway, because when you've got two [15:47] companies that are competing so directly, sometimes you do see costs come down in this way. And that's [15:52] when like competition is great, and it works for the consumer. Sometimes that doesn't happen in the drug [15:56] industry because you've got the middlemen with insurers and PBMs. And sometimes you actually [15:59] see costs go up, which is horrible. But anyway, in this situation, they came down. And so the Trump [16:05] administration negotiated a price of about $150 a month. [16:08] And what was it before that? Like, what was the average price? [16:11] The list price of these drugs was about $1,000 a month or more. [16:15] So significant drop. [16:16] Significant drop. And a lot of folks don't have good insurance coverage of these drugs. A lot of [16:20] insurance companies, even now they're dropping coverage for weight loss of these medications. And now [16:25] you're hearing a lot of like, examples of basically like PBMs or insurers saying, [16:31] just buy it directly from the company use cash pay. You know, so it's kind of it's it's interesting [16:36] that there's all these new ways of sort of paying for these drugs, but $150 a month out of pocket, [16:40] but it's only for the lowest doses of the medicines. So most people start on this low dose, [16:44] but then move up over time. And so you're going to be paying more over time, I think the highest price [16:50] is around $350 a month, which is not insignificant, you know, it's a huge amount to be paying out of pocket. [16:55] But it is a lot lower than $1,000 less than when it was. So were Eli Lilly and Novo Nordisk, [17:02] were they good with this plan? Like, where does the shortfall of money come from? Who's paying the [17:07] gap? Yeah, I mean, I think what is cool about this is it can be seen as a trade off between [17:15] volume or the number of people you're helping volume is the Wall Street word. [17:20] The number of people who can get access to these medicines versus how much, you know, [17:25] each each person is paying. And if these are really so helpful, which the data suggests they are, [17:31] then it's great that more people can get access to them and the companies can still make a ton of [17:36] money. I mean, they brought in like $36 billion each last year. Wow. From these drugs. [17:41] From these drugs alone. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. It's huge. And only getting bigger and bigger. [17:46] That's worldwide data? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [17:47] Are there big research questions that they're still trying to answer? Like the oral formulation, [17:52] taking this as a pill seemed like a big one. Like we want to be able to provide this in a way where [17:58] people don't have to inject themselves. What do you sort of see coming down the pipe? What are the [18:03] big questions they're still trying to answer or developments they're trying to achieve? [18:06] Well, in the nearest term, they're trying to maximize weight loss. So this is the red of true [18:10] tides of the world. The triple G's and Novo has its own answers to that as well. I think some companies, [18:15] as we noted, they're trying to work on so you can take it less frequently. So the opposite direction of [18:19] the daily pill. But then also trying to make them more tolerable because a lot of people do experience [18:25] these GI side effects with the medicines. I hear from doctors, maybe five to 10% of patients find [18:29] these side effects so severe that they just don't want to take the drugs. I mean, so that, [18:35] you know, that's something that companies are trying to work on as well. We've also heard when [18:40] people lose a lot of weight, particularly very quickly, and if they're not doing weight training [18:43] along with it, and depending on what their diets are, they can lose a lot of lean muscle mass too, [18:49] they lose their muscle. And this happens when people lose weight in any way, you know, [18:53] you lose a lot of weight quickly on a diet, you might also lose a lot of lean muscle mass too. [18:58] Right. [18:58] But some companies are working on ways to try to preserve lean muscle mass while you lose your [19:05] fat mass. I had one R&D executive say, we're going to make everybody hot because they were working on [19:11] preserving muscle. [19:12] Thin and strong. [19:12] Yeah. [19:13] That, I mean, it is fascinating. And I find it feels a little dystopian at times because, [19:20] you know, I, you know, you and I are both medical reporters and, you know, look, eating right, [19:25] exercising, you know, living a healthy life, that should always be the right answer. At the same [19:31] time, we realize it doesn't, it doesn't work for everybody. So these drugs can play a role, [19:35] but they've probably taken an outsized role in all this. I'll share with you just quickly, [19:40] you know, it was fascinating talking about muscle mass loss, because I visited this, this lab in Oshkosh, [19:46] Wisconsin, uh, where they're studying these 13 line squirrels. [19:50] I love this story. [19:51] It was amazing to me in this, this researcher says to me, almost as an offhanded comment [19:57] that bears, when they hibernate and they can hibernate for months at a time, they're not eating, [20:04] they're not moving. And when they come out of hibernation, oftentimes they have as much, if not [20:11] more muscle mass than when they went in, huh? Right? Yeah. It's fascinating. And, and, and the whole [20:17] reason this is, this has gotten a lot of attention recently is because they're thinking about this for [20:21] NASA. Like we could, it could, could humans hibernate as they're going towards Mars? Whoa. [20:28] It solves a lot of problems. One is that you're hibernating. So you don't get bored. Boredom is an [20:32] isolation is a big concern. Two is you don't have to take as much food and water up because they're not [20:37] eating or drinking anything at the time that they're hibernating. And three is this issue of [20:43] humans. If you don't move for even a few days, you lose muscle mass. They may be sort of in that [20:48] state for months where they're not moving much. Hibernation could solve a lot of problems. So [20:53] it's gotten all this funding recently, but then she said it could be actually something beneficial [20:59] for people who are taking GLP drugs as well. This has been one of the big questions. I want to lose [21:05] weight. I don't want to lose muscle. Right. Oh, I think that is so fascinating. I didn't know that [21:10] about the NASA going to Mars. I mean, it's like Austin Powers. I know, right? Well, yeah. And then [21:15] even back here on earth, the idea, like you're saying, like, I want to lose weight, but I don't [21:20] want to lose muscle mass. I don't want to lose bone density and things like that. By the way, I'm getting [21:24] my bone density checked again. I think we talked about this last time. It's been about a year. So I'll let [21:29] you know how that turns out. Last time we talked about this topic, I wrote this down. You made sort [21:34] of an interesting comment related to the stigma associated with taking these pills or taking [21:41] these injections at that time, now pills. People being sort of criticized for like, you're just [21:48] using a shortcut here. There's non-medication ways, non-expensive medication ways to achieve these. [21:55] Where do you think we are culturally now compared to a couple of years ago? [22:00] I think there are still a lot of folks who feel that way. I mean, we just did a video this week [22:07] about some findings on these medicines, and I was looking at some of the comments. And, you know, [22:11] there were a number of people who were just like, well, just eat right, avoid ultra processed foods. [22:14] And, you know, and so I think there is still a lot of that. But I do think, I mean, there's also a [22:20] growing appreciation for what these medicines can do. And so I think that is changing. But I still [22:27] think, I mean, people love to speculate. Who's taking a GLP-1? Why did their body change so much? [22:31] And it's something to, you know, we all do it. We're all gossipy. It's like how we are as humans. [22:35] But I think the issue is the pressures that people might feel to look certain ways and that that [22:40] pressure is probably increasing as it becomes easier to look certain ways that are maybe not realistic [22:44] and maybe not healthy for a lot of people. I think that can be problematic. [22:50] The potential side effects that you talked about, GI, people feeling nauseated, having constipation. [22:56] In part, that's a little bit how these drugs work because they're slowing down the motility of your [23:01] gut. Do they find that for most people, these side effects go away after a time? Is this like [23:06] something people develop a tolerance to? Yeah. And the tolerance idea is totally fascinating too, [23:11] which is something that I've talked to addiction researchers about because they're wondering, [23:15] do you reach a level of tolerance of these medications that you need to keep taking them [23:19] in order to keep staving off your addictions? I think it's fascinating. So you do have to titrate [23:25] up on the medicines over time, mainly to try to ensure the tolerability is manageable. So you start at [23:32] the slow dose. After a month, typically you go to the next dose. And, you know, sometimes people can stay [23:37] at a certain dose and that works for them. Some people have to get to the highest dose and stay [23:42] there. We do see that there typically is a plateau. People stop losing weight at a certain point with [23:48] these medications. They don't just lose and lose and lose until they're nothing. They can't wither weight [23:51] to nothing. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes that might happen before somebody's lost as much weight as [23:58] they want to lose. I also hear from doctors that some people want to lose an unhealthy amount of weight. [24:02] And so then the doctors are having these conversations like, Hey, you know, I know you, [24:06] you weighed 105 pounds in college or whatever, but that doesn't mean you should weigh that now. [24:10] And so trying to have those conversations too, about what's healthy and what's not. [24:15] But yeah, people typically do seem to get used to the side effects and then you go up again and you [24:20] might experience them again. So there are other things that doctors are concerned about. [24:24] Yeah. I mean, there can be other side effects. Like people sometimes have hair loss and [24:27] um, in the, um, in the red or true tide trials, we saw large numbers of people with this sort of [24:32] prickling skin, uh, condition that they felt when they were taking the medicine. Um, there's also a [24:38] very rare eye condition called nion. It can be kind of like a, like you vision, sudden vision loss in one [24:44] of your eyes. And so it's, it's very rare, but it is something that can happen. Um, people worry about [24:50] the thyroid. Um, and so that's something to monitor. Um, and then of course, uh, there have been things like [24:57] gastroparesis. So this sort of like, uh, you know, paralyzed gut. Exactly. And so, you know, [25:03] these are drugs. I think about possible side effects when I take ibuprofen. So I think people [25:09] need to be cautious. Just, you know, again, people should always be mindful if they're putting anything [25:14] into their bodies. So what are you hearing in your just own circles of friends and just being out there [25:20] as a reporter, uh, the, the, the sort of reaction to these medications, are they just now part of [25:27] regular culture here in the United States? I think in some ways they are, and in some ways [25:31] they're not. I mean, an increasing number of people who I know are, are taking them. People [25:35] who might've been resistant to taking them before, you know, I have older people in my life whose [25:41] doctors felt like the drugs hadn't been studied for long enough, even just a couple of years ago, [25:45] whose doctors now are saying, okay, they're fine. Like you would benefit from being on this. And [25:49] I like to see, to hear about how people are taking them. You know, a number of people I know have [25:54] said either their doctor has required that they start weight training before they go on these [25:59] medicines so that they establish that pattern. They know that they can do it while they're, [26:02] while they're doing it. I think that's really great. Other people I've, I've heard even just [26:07] by themselves, they wanted to take these medicines and they're like, I'm going to start weight training [26:10] before I take the medicines so that I establish that sort of pattern and I know that I can do it. [26:14] And I think that's so healthy and great. Like, I mean, I even think about it for myself. I'm like, [26:18] these medicines have so many different benefits. Should I be microdosing a GLP-1? [26:23] What do you think? I don't know. But I also think like my diet isn't perfect. My exercise [26:28] isn't perfect. Not that it needs to be perfect, but I also think like, I need to take a page out [26:32] of those folks books and get to a point where I'm really consistent with those kinds of things and [26:36] assess where I am. And if I still feel like I need help or I can benefit in some way, like talk to a [26:40] doctor about it, you know? Yeah. I, I, I, I'm the same way. And it's funny, the, the, um, [26:47] I think a lot of people just, just sort of look at the cardiovascular benefits. You know, [26:51] I have a strong family history of heart disease. You know, I worry about dementia. I have dementia [26:56] in my family. And so I'm not taking these medications, but there's a part of me that wonders [27:01] if I'm missing out now because of these, these, like, well, I look back 10 years from now and say, [27:06] gosh, I could have maybe helped if not, if not prevent, at least stall, you know, the onset of [27:12] some of these diseases. I feel like that's an increasingly big part of the conversation. [27:16] Yeah. And the problem is like, we don't know until we know. Right. And even though these drugs have [27:21] been around for a long time, they're pretty well understood, you know, it doesn't mean that they're [27:26] completely benign and, you know, would we find if, you know, a certain population is taking them that, [27:31] you know, something could, something bad happen if you were taking it. So it's not like a only one direction [27:36] you know, there's, there is a risk benefit. And so, you know, two years from now, what do you think [27:41] this market looks like? I hope we have a lot more information about what these drugs are doing. [27:47] The big companies are finally running the trials in alcohol addiction and nicotine and opioids and [27:54] cannabis. From the business perspective, that's a market drug companies are like, we don't really do [27:59] that. You know, it just hasn't been financially successful for us. And so we're not touching it. [28:04] Now they're, now they're in it. They're running these big clinical trials. And could this possibly [28:08] really help people? That would be wonderful. So I hope we see that. I hope we see good results in, [28:15] in the brain health space. So I'm hoping we see benefits there. But yeah, I just hope we keep [28:20] learning about these and that, I mean, we have enough doctors and enough people overseeing care [28:25] that people can do it in a way that's safe. [28:27] I love your reporting. I always appreciate the chance to talk to you. And I think the entire [28:31] audience always learns something. So thank you. [28:33] Likewise. Thank you. [28:34] Appreciate it. [28:40] That's our show for today. I hope you learned something. I certainly did. [28:43] I know I got a lot out of it. And a big thanks again to my colleague here at CNN, [28:48] Meg Terrell. Please join us next week.