Who will shape the global agenda — the left or far right? — Inside Story

[0:01] Defending democracy, the slogan of left-leaning world leaders in Spain [0:05] meeting to counter the growing influence of the far-right. [0:09] Meanwhile, in Italy, right-wing figures aim to build momentum. [0:12] So who will shape the global agenda? [0:15] This is Inside Story. [0:33] Hello, welcome to the program. I'm Tom McRae. [0:36] Two gatherings in two European cities with opposing political perspectives. [0:40] In Barcelona, left-leaning world leaders discuss the threat the growing far-right [0:45] poses to democratic institutions. [0:47] Their aim? To bring together progressive forces under a single banner [0:51] to counter right-wing authoritarianism. [0:54] While in Milan, far-right figures rallied against what they called [0:57] the tragedy that has become Europe. [1:00] They are calling for fewer regulations from Brussels, but tighter controls on security. [1:05] We will discuss with our guests how this polarisation will play out across the world. [1:10] But first, this report from Imogen Kimber. [1:12] A global meeting of the left in Barcelona, [1:18] billed as a pushback against the rise of the far-right. [1:22] Democracy cannot be taken for granted. [1:29] We are witnessing one attempt after another to challenge the rules of international law. [1:34] Meanwhile, inequality is on the rise. [1:36] The Spanish Prime Minister, along with Brazilian President Lula da Silva, [1:42] and other left-leaning politicians, activists and academics, [1:45] are calling for global unity to counter the network they say exists on the right. [1:51] They say they want to ensure diplomacy prevails over force. [1:55] Combat hunger, protect the environment, and restore the credibility of the United Nations, [2:01] which has been eroded by the irresponsibility of its permanent members. [2:08] Lula alluded to US President Donald Trump, but other leaders were more direct, [2:14] criticising what they say is his administration's disregard for international law, [2:19] citing the war in Iran as a recent example. [2:22] At the same time, in another part of Europe, members of the far-right gathered. [2:29] Supporters of the European Parliamentary Bloc, Patriots for Europe, marched through Milan. [2:34] Italy's far-right Deputy Prime Minister Matteo Salvini addressed the crowd. [2:40] In Europe, our alliance is the only true adversary for the Brussels bureaucrats, [2:47] who serve a few businessmen and warmongers. [2:50] Here in this square is the only hope, and it is you who protect our workers, [2:55] the future of our young people, and our identity. [2:58] Also participating, Jordan Bardella of France's National Rally. [3:03] Our allies in Italy are in power. [3:08] We will discuss all the issues facing European societies, [3:11] immigration, and the ever-increasing regulations imposed by the European Commission and the European Union. [3:18] The right wing made gains in European elections in 2024, [3:24] and parties represented here will be hoping to do the same this year. [3:28] That is, unless the left can stop them. [3:31] Imogen Kimba, Al Jazeera, for Inside Story. [3:34] Let's bring in our guests now. [3:40] Joining us from Madrid is Ruth Ferreiro-Turion, [3:44] a Professor of Political Science at Combustence University of Madrid. [3:48] She specialises in EU governance and migration policy. [3:51] In Brussels is Rebecca Christie, a Senior Fellow at Brugel, [3:55] a European think tank that specialises in economics. [3:59] And Jorgos Samaras is in London. [4:01] He's an Assistant Professor in Public Policy at King's College London, [4:04] specialising in far-right violence in Europe and democratic backsliding. [4:09] Thanks so much for being with us here on Inside Story. [4:11] We really do appreciate your time. [4:13] Jorgos, if I can start with you. [4:14] We've seen Barcelona on one side, Milan on the other. [4:17] Clear, opposite visions for the future of Europe. [4:21] Are these gatherings a sign of genuine ideological momentum, [4:25] or is it all just political theatre? [4:27] I will start by highlighting that these are indeed rival projects [4:33] of political articulation, but we cannot flatten them into mirror images [4:38] because on the one hand, the Barcelona camp is trying to unify democracy [4:44] and the Milan camp is trying to unify sovereignty, exclusion, [4:48] and this cultural threat. [4:50] So the one seeks to widen the democratic chain, [4:53] and I don't think that there is something performative about that. [4:56] The other one, though, is trying to narrow the political community [5:00] and make punishment feel legitimate. [5:03] So if we try to compare those two camps, [5:06] I would describe that it's quite a lazy approach [5:09] between two very different entities. [5:14] The one is basically trying to legitimise these punitive measures. [5:19] The other one creates a focus on democracy [5:22] that the progressive movement desperately needs at this stage. [5:25] OK, Ruth, if we can bring you in. [5:27] The left is branding this as a defence of democracy. [5:31] That's what the conference was all about. [5:33] But is that framing convenient in some ways? [5:36] Because millions of voters, despite what Yorgos was saying there, [5:40] they are choosing the right. [5:42] Is that not also part of democracy? [5:47] Yes, the thing here is that for the last years, [5:51] democracy was the right block leading the whole proposals on democracies. [5:58] And I believe that the progress is they wanted to take back [6:03] some of the proposals towards the societies. [6:07] And so it's true that we cannot divide just in this in two blocks [6:10] because I think that one of the main one hand is the progressives. [6:17] And then we have a very, very strong fight within the right block, [6:22] within the centre-right and the extreme right [6:27] or, you know, the right that isn't represented by Meloni or Bartela. [6:31] And there is where we have to pay attention to [6:36] because in some points, those guys are, yes, [6:40] really going farther to threat some of the extreme values [6:45] in which the European Union and the democratic societies [6:48] are being based, like things like the rule of law [6:52] and human rights that are being under threat [6:56] by some proposals coming from that block. [6:58] So, yeah, I agree with my colleague [7:01] that we are just going to simplify in these two blocks. [7:05] There are a lot of things to see carefully in detail. [7:12] And what we've seen in Barcelona over the last two days, [7:17] it's basically trying to rebuild some block [7:22] that has been missing out of the discourse and the agenda. [7:26] Okay, they're trying to rebuild that block, Rebecca. [7:28] Both sides obviously claim to represent the will of the people. [7:32] Which side is actually reading the public mood [7:35] more accurately right now and utilising that narrative? [7:42] So I would start off by saying [7:44] none of these movements are monoliths [7:46] and the centre in Europe is also a very important part [7:50] of what's going on. [7:52] If we look at, for example, the elections in the Netherlands, [7:55] we see a distinct move away from the far right [7:58] toward the centre. [7:59] We also see in Hungary a push for change. [8:03] The country is still probably collectively [8:05] to the right of where many other European countries are. [8:08] But also there's hope for working more collectively. [8:12] Because of the far right control of many branches [8:15] of American government, [8:16] we actually are seeing Europe recognise the need [8:19] to work together and across national borders. [8:21] And that is a force that reduces some of the racism [8:25] that has been driving these far right movements. [8:27] Okay, I want to hear a little more [8:29] from the Defence of Democracy conference. [8:31] Many asked what the point of the gathering in Barcelona was [8:35] and really what concrete actions could come out of it. [8:38] Well, leaders there were determined the meeting [8:40] would not just be all talk. [8:42] The progressive response cannot be only to oppose. [8:48] We must offer something that is better. [8:53] President Cyril Ramaphosa says South Africa will present [8:56] a draft resolution to the UN for an international panel [9:00] on inequality, while President Lula and Prime Minister Sanchez [9:04] are working on proposals for attacks on the ultra-rich [9:07] and the Mexican president also outlined policy. [9:13] We propose allocating 10% of global spending on arms, [9:17] which amounts to billions of dollars, [9:19] to fund a global programme that enables millions of people [9:22] to reforest millions of hectares each year. [9:25] Instead of sowing the seeds of war, [9:27] let us sow the seeds of peace. [9:30] Jorges, I want to know if you think that any of this [9:33] is actually going to make a difference [9:35] to getting people to vote for the left. [9:38] Are any of these policies or ideas really going to mobilise voters? [9:42] Because when people are wondering how to pay their bills [9:45] in a cost-of-living crisis, [9:46] do they really care about a panel at the UN [9:49] or deforestation at all? [9:53] It depends. [9:55] First of all, let's focus on the messengers. [9:57] From what you've all seen by now, [9:59] some of the people who participated in Madrid's conference [10:03] are hardcore centrists like David Lamy from the UK. [10:07] I don't think that the message is radical enough. [10:10] It needs to push much, much harder [10:12] because they do still represent aspects of the old liberal order [10:17] that never really existed. [10:18] So in a way, many of the politicians who are now appearing in Madrid [10:21] are not really innocent in this story. [10:24] The messaging is certainly right, [10:27] but the messengers are wrong [10:29] because some of these mainstream parties [10:31] have repeatedly borrowed far-right themes of migration, [10:34] like David Lamy's government in the UK. [10:36] The Labour government has pushed those messages relentlessly. [10:40] So when those parties adopt those far-right issues, [10:43] they legitimise them. [10:46] By a more radical agenda, [10:47] I specifically mean that they have to push [10:51] towards the opposite direction. [10:53] Stop talking about migration, [10:55] focus on the economy, [10:56] focus on the environment, [10:58] tax the rich, [10:59] try to basically not create top-down issues in politics [11:03] because once politics and politicians [11:06] start talking about certain talking points, [11:09] they end up normalising them, [11:11] which results in what we're currently seeing unfolding [11:14] in European politics. [11:16] And ultimately, [11:17] this is not going to be a clash of two equivalent extremes [11:20] because there is absolutely nothing extreme or radical [11:24] happening right now in Madrid. [11:26] To summarise, [11:28] the message is clear about democratic protection. [11:30] The messengers are definitely wrong. [11:32] And the politics of exclusion, [11:34] again, [11:34] that Liberals have pushed for too long, [11:36] have helped normalise [11:37] instead of confronting this kind of rhetoric. [11:40] OK, Ruth, [11:41] I guess following on from that point, [11:43] the Spanish leader warned [11:44] of an international reactionary way [11:46] fuelling hate speech, [11:47] sexism, [11:48] war and division [11:48] without explicitly naming [11:50] the US President Donald Trump. [11:52] He went on to say [11:52] it doesn't matter how much they scream [11:54] or how many lies they spread, [11:56] the time for the reactionary ultra-right [11:59] has come to an end. [12:01] How does he actually turn that into action, though? [12:05] Well, [12:05] we've seen it [12:06] and I'm totally remembering again [12:08] with my colleague [12:09] that the position [12:10] that has been taken in Barcelona [12:12] for the last two days [12:14] is not radical enough. [12:16] The problem is that [12:17] Europe has moved towards right [12:19] all the time [12:20] and even, you know, [12:22] social liberals [12:23] are just looking like revolutionaries [12:26] and, you know, [12:26] at some point, [12:28] at some point, [12:28] they probably will be the Che Guevara [12:31] and they are not at all like that. [12:33] But the points, [12:35] I mean, [12:35] I think it's something positive [12:37] that, you know, [12:39] this progress is alliance [12:42] coming to an end [12:43] and coming to an strategic alliance [12:46] with the global south as well, [12:48] not just the European Progressive Bloc [12:50] and put it on the table [12:53] things that has to do [12:54] with redistribution [12:55] when we have this whole debate [12:57] within the European Union [12:58] or their regulation. [13:00] So they are asking [13:01] for more regulation [13:02] of the big businesses, [13:03] for instance, [13:04] or increasing public investment. [13:06] And there is a whole [13:07] ideological fight behind that. [13:10] And if the Progressive Bloc [13:12] is not ready [13:13] to do this fight [13:16] for these positions, [13:18] this is something [13:18] that the social democrats [13:19] have abandoned for years. [13:21] I mean, [13:22] the third way, [13:23] the third way was terrible [13:24] for the social democracy. [13:26] Then the end [13:29] of the European Union [13:30] will be something different. [13:32] So I would say [13:33] that this is, [13:35] in a way, [13:36] a performative action, [13:38] but at the same time, [13:39] it tries to start, [13:41] it is a starting point [13:43] also to try to rearm [13:46] the whole ideological block [13:47] in the Progressive area. [13:50] Okay. [13:51] Rebecca, [13:52] obviously Ruth, [13:53] you're talking about [13:53] the third way, [13:54] moving towards the centre. [13:56] And it does feel, [13:57] has the centre been squeezed [13:58] from both directions? [14:00] And how does one side [14:03] or the other [14:03] actually try and re-engage [14:05] with them properly here? [14:06] I want to push back [14:08] against this idea [14:09] that there are only two sides [14:11] and that these sides [14:12] are somehow [14:13] some sort of cohesive [14:15] agenda proposal [14:17] that one can split [14:18] into two groups. [14:19] There are a lot [14:20] of different democratic movements [14:21] with a lot [14:22] of different concerns. [14:23] Likewise, [14:24] when we use terms [14:25] like radical change, [14:26] we don't necessarily mean [14:28] very extreme things [14:29] like closing all borders [14:31] or, you know, [14:33] raising the voting age [14:34] to 45. [14:35] We sometimes mean [14:36] radical shifts [14:37] like overhauling [14:38] the tax code [14:39] or changing the way [14:40] we do financial supervision. [14:41] So it's important [14:42] when we're talking [14:43] about democracy [14:44] to be specific [14:45] in our terms [14:46] and to acknowledge [14:47] who we're talking about. [14:48] I would again say [14:49] that we see centrist voters [14:51] perhaps changing [14:53] their minds [14:54] as people do [14:55] about who they think [14:56] can most help them [14:57] and their standards [14:58] of living. [14:58] And we also see [15:00] that the EU [15:02] wants to come together [15:05] in the face [15:06] of a changing [15:06] global environment [15:07] and is looking [15:08] for ways [15:09] that they can do that [15:09] that allow them [15:11] to preserve [15:12] what they see [15:12] as valuable [15:13] about their national traditions. [15:14] Jorgos, [15:15] we saw that [15:16] the cheerleader [15:16] for the right, [15:17] Viktor Orban in Hungary [15:18] is now gone. [15:19] How significant [15:20] is that [15:21] and what lessons [15:21] can be learnt [15:22] from that election? [15:24] It is a setback [15:28] for the European [15:29] far-right, [15:30] absolutely, [15:31] but it does not [15:32] really mark [15:33] any real discontinuation [15:35] of the broader project. [15:37] Patriots for Europe [15:38] remains the third [15:39] largest group [15:40] in the European Parliament. [15:41] Orban helped [15:43] build this [15:43] into a more [15:44] structured [15:45] transnational force. [15:47] Milan is basically [15:48] a message [15:49] to solidify [15:50] this kind of power, [15:52] but at the same time, [15:54] people who believe [15:55] that TISA [15:55] and better [15:56] Magyar [15:57] are going [15:58] to somehow [16:00] abolish authoritarianism [16:02] are so wrong [16:03] because [16:04] Petr Magyar [16:05] is a former [16:05] FITES member [16:06] who was [16:08] president of the party [16:09] for nearly 22 years. [16:11] I don't see [16:12] discontinuation [16:12] of authoritarianism [16:13] in a country [16:14] that suffered [16:14] from authoritarianism [16:15] for nearly 16 years. [16:17] And the assumption [16:18] that somehow [16:19] democratization, [16:20] a term that I despise, [16:22] can happen [16:23] just because [16:24] a new government [16:25] has come to power, [16:26] where, yeah, [16:27] is flawed. [16:28] Hungary will have [16:29] to deal with [16:30] structural issues [16:32] and introduce [16:33] radical changes [16:34] to the system [16:34] in order to [16:35] introduce [16:36] liberal democratic [16:37] changes [16:38] because [16:39] the inheritance [16:40] of political weapons [16:41] that Viktor Orban [16:42] is leaving behind [16:44] is significant. [16:45] So, [16:45] in my view, [16:46] long story short, [16:47] I don't think [16:48] that Orban [16:49] losing the election [16:50] means anything [16:51] for now. [16:52] It might [16:52] in a few years, [16:53] but for now [16:54] it's just [16:55] business as usual [16:55] in Hungary. [16:57] Okay. [16:57] Ruth, [16:58] why does, [16:59] I mean, [16:59] you touched on this [17:00] a little earlier, [17:01] migration obviously [17:02] keeps coming up [17:02] as one of the [17:03] defining fault lines. [17:06] The left frames it [17:07] as a humanitarian issue, [17:08] but does that [17:09] get enough cut through? [17:10] And why do you think [17:11] that the left [17:12] hasn't really been able [17:13] to take control [17:15] of the narrative [17:15] on such a vital, [17:17] vital, [17:17] important issue? [17:21] Well, [17:21] the thing with [17:22] migration [17:23] is that [17:24] the far right [17:25] are taking the lead [17:26] on the narrative [17:27] with migration. [17:29] They're closing borders, [17:32] not taking into consideration [17:33] human rights. [17:34] Every time [17:35] we're talking about [17:36] human rights, [17:36] we are considered [17:37] like a radical extremist [17:40] and a revolutionary something. [17:43] And we should defend [17:45] this human rights [17:46] because the way [17:47] in which [17:48] the migration policy [17:50] has been implemented [17:51] will define also [17:53] the nature [17:54] of the European Union [17:56] as a definitive [17:57] pillar for that. [17:59] So basically [18:01] what we have [18:01] to approach here [18:03] is to, [18:04] again, [18:05] the social democrats [18:07] or the progressist area, [18:09] of course, [18:10] the liberals [18:10] are included in that. [18:11] I don't want [18:12] to miss that point. [18:15] But they should [18:16] take the lead [18:17] on trying [18:18] to build up [18:19] more human [18:20] migration policies [18:22] within the European Union. [18:23] The fact of [18:24] asylum and migration [18:25] is not definitely [18:27] a question [18:29] of public policy [18:32] but just border control. [18:34] And this is something [18:35] that now [18:36] the majorities [18:38] are not allowing [18:38] to change it [18:39] but it's going [18:40] to define [18:42] the future nature [18:43] of the European Union [18:44] and the way [18:45] in which it has been [18:45] implemented in the future. [18:47] Obviously Donald Trump [18:48] is central to the right. [18:50] The left obviously [18:51] criticising him [18:52] for many things [18:52] including the war in Iran [18:54] and disregard [18:55] for international law [18:57] as well as some [18:57] of America's migration policies. [19:00] Is linking, [19:01] Rebecca, [19:01] the European far right [19:03] to Donald Trump [19:04] an effective strategy [19:05] do you think? [19:05] It depends on [19:08] who's doing the linking [19:09] and why. [19:10] We saw that [19:10] Vice President [19:11] J.D. Vance [19:12] of the United States [19:13] campaigned for [19:13] Viktor Orban in Hungary [19:15] and it did not [19:15] make a difference [19:16] in the Hungarian [19:17] people's desire [19:18] for change. [19:20] I would disagree [19:21] that the election [19:22] in Hungary [19:23] is not a big change [19:25] in that [19:25] it opens the door [19:27] for much more [19:27] constructive work [19:28] between Hungary [19:29] and the European Union [19:30] and that in turn [19:31] will help unlock [19:33] all sorts of [19:34] economic measures, [19:36] support for Ukraine, [19:38] democratic resistance [19:40] against propaganda [19:42] from outside actors. [19:43] There are a lot [19:44] of good things [19:44] that can come [19:46] if Hungary [19:46] stops being [19:47] an automatic veto [19:49] for some of these [19:50] things like that. [19:52] Regarding the United States, [19:54] the U.S. policy [19:56] is extremely, [19:57] extraordinarily [19:57] unpredictable right now [19:59] whether it comes [19:59] to trade policy [20:00] military policy, [20:02] security policy [20:02] and the EU countries [20:04] individually [20:05] and collectively [20:06] have to be ready [20:07] to react [20:08] to what comes at them. [20:10] Okay, Jorgos, [20:10] you touched on this [20:11] I think in your [20:12] very, very first answer. [20:14] What is the media's role [20:15] in all of this [20:16] and how they define [20:17] this issue, [20:19] portraying divisions [20:20] in society? [20:21] Does that just widen [20:22] them even further [20:23] or oversimplify them? [20:27] Absolutely. [20:28] We are seeing [20:30] not just simplification [20:31] but a deliberate effort [20:33] to create division. [20:36] The uncontrolled power [20:38] that certain media [20:39] across Europe, [20:41] especially in the U.K., [20:42] have managed to assume [20:43] is troubling. [20:45] And I'm not going to say [20:46] that all of the issues [20:48] that are being discussed [20:49] currently from migration [20:51] to the economy [20:51] receive the equal time, [20:53] not at all. [20:54] But when the messaging [20:56] travels from the top, [20:58] hence why I refer to it [20:59] as a top-down issue, [21:00] from politics [21:01] to the media, [21:02] the media have [21:03] responsibility. [21:05] And that responsibility [21:05] is crucial [21:07] because they can actually [21:08] control how moral panic [21:10] spreads. [21:11] So media [21:13] does not just, [21:14] you know, [21:15] simply report about this [21:16] and the struggle [21:17] and constructs, [21:19] you know, [21:19] the political frontier itself [21:20] by deciding [21:21] which grievances [21:22] are linked together, [21:24] which actors [21:25] are treated as legitimate [21:25] and which ideas [21:26] are repeated [21:28] until they start [21:28] to feel ordinary. [21:30] So the contribution [21:31] to the far right [21:33] has been really important [21:35] because it amplifies [21:36] and repeats core signifiers. [21:38] It tries to connect [21:40] national actors [21:41] into a wider [21:43] transnational block [21:44] and also it weakens [21:46] older gatekeepers. [21:48] I think in many ways [21:49] the fact that [21:50] this is also amplified [21:52] on social media [21:54] like the far right platform [21:56] X, [21:56] which has boosted [21:57] all of those [21:58] political movements [21:59] is significant. [22:01] So we're not just [22:01] facing the media, [22:02] we're also facing [22:02] a social media environment [22:04] which is so fragmented [22:05] and so dangerous [22:05] to democracy [22:06] to the point [22:07] where more action [22:08] is needed [22:08] as soon as possible [22:09] to preserve democracy [22:11] and not just let it, [22:12] you know, [22:12] in the hands of oligarchs [22:13] and malicious, [22:14] malignant actors. [22:16] And obviously the algorithms [22:17] in those social media companies [22:18] play into all of that as well. [22:20] Ruth, [22:20] I want to start rounding out [22:21] this conversation [22:22] as we bring it to a close. [22:24] Who is currently [22:26] a better place [22:26] to try and shape [22:27] the agenda [22:28] over the next [22:28] five or so years? [22:30] The left or the right [22:32] without oversimplifying it [22:34] like your Goss was saying? [22:37] I would say [22:38] that now [22:38] the right is taking the lead [22:40] but as I mentioned [22:42] in my first intervention [22:44] I think we have [22:44] to pay attention [22:45] what's going on [22:46] within the right thing [22:47] meaning the centre right [22:50] and the extreme right [22:51] and we are having [22:53] some examples [22:54] all over Europe [22:55] where the political agenda [22:57] of the extreme right [22:58] has been by [22:59] by the centre right [23:03] and a year [23:04] they implemented [23:05] that agenda [23:06] and issues concerning [23:08] for instance [23:08] human policies [23:10] or gender policies [23:12] or even migration policies [23:15] there [23:15] that taking those [23:17] to an extreme. [23:18] we have observed [23:20] how the Trumpist [23:23] right wing [23:24] has been losing [23:26] in battle [23:27] within that [23:28] block [23:30] but we have to pay [23:32] attention [23:32] to what's going on [23:33] in the Partido [23:34] Popular Party [23:36] European Political [23:37] Popular Party [23:38] in the next [23:39] in the next years [23:40] as my colleagues [23:41] have mentioned [23:42] Major, Peter [23:43] it's not [23:45] a progressist [23:48] leader [23:48] it's a conservative [23:49] not conservative [23:50] nationalist [23:51] leader [23:52] and we have to see [23:53] if there is more [23:54] he's more with [23:55] the Popular Party [23:57] or with the people [23:58] surrounding Meloni [24:00] which I think [24:01] it's also very close to [24:03] okay Rebecca [24:04] there's obviously [24:04] upcoming elections [24:06] in France [24:06] Italy, Spain [24:07] Poland [24:07] France's Marine Le Pen [24:09] has said that [24:10] they would give [24:11] potential far right [24:12] winners [24:13] the means [24:14] to radically [24:14] change the course [24:15] of the European [24:16] Union [24:17] from within [24:18] how realistic [24:19] is that? [24:20] We see in France [24:23] that polls [24:24] are generally [24:25] split 50-50 [24:26] so it's really [24:27] not clear [24:28] what will happen [24:29] and if it does [24:30] happen [24:30] what that will [24:31] mean for the [24:32] European project [24:33] when right wing [24:34] parties come to [24:35] power [24:35] many of them [24:36] move toward [24:36] the centre [24:37] some of them [24:38] do not [24:39] and we also [24:40] see voters [24:41] have a number [24:42] of ways [24:42] to push back [24:44] I mean [24:44] Poland is a [24:44] place that has [24:45] swung back [24:46] and forth [24:46] from pro-European [24:47] to anti-European [24:49] governments [24:49] and back [24:50] in France [24:51] we can also [24:52] expect to see [24:53] a moderating [24:53] influence [24:54] from financial [24:55] markets [24:55] France is [24:56] very fiscally [24:57] overextended [24:58] it needs [24:59] to keep [25:00] its credit rating [25:00] from dropping [25:01] any further [25:01] it needs [25:02] to maintain [25:02] access [25:03] to markets [25:04] and [25:05] any French [25:06] government [25:06] will need [25:07] to be careful [25:07] of saying [25:09] things that [25:09] destabilize [25:10] its continuous [25:10] access to [25:11] financing [25:11] how resilient [25:15] is EU [25:16] democracy [25:17] at this [25:17] point in [25:18] time [25:18] are we [25:18] at risk [25:19] of [25:19] underestimating [25:20] just how [25:21] serious [25:22] things are [25:22] right now [25:23] things are [25:26] quite serious [25:26] and I feel [25:27] that it's [25:28] not being [25:29] discussed [25:29] in the [25:31] media [25:31] the fact [25:32] that a [25:34] democratic [25:34] project [25:35] that once [25:36] promised [25:36] open borders [25:37] that promised [25:38] equality [25:39] and a [25:40] focus [25:40] on [25:40] integration [25:41] and I guess [25:43] freedom of [25:44] movement [25:44] is collapsing [25:46] this is [25:48] primarily [25:49] the reason [25:50] why [25:50] democracy [25:51] across so [25:52] many [25:52] European states [25:53] like Hungary [25:54] Poland [25:55] Greece [25:55] and Italy [25:56] is in [25:56] danger [25:57] so [25:58] from [25:59] extreme [25:59] austerity [26:00] back [26:01] in [26:01] the late [26:03] 2000s [26:03] all the way [26:04] to this [26:05] point in [26:06] history [26:06] where [26:06] we have [26:07] to make [26:08] changes [26:09] to the [26:09] political [26:09] system [26:09] the European [26:10] project [26:10] must [26:11] change [26:11] itself [26:12] and [26:12] not just [26:13] redesign [26:14] itself [26:14] and create [26:15] a more [26:16] equal [26:17] system [26:17] of [26:18] countries [26:18] but [26:19] get rid [26:19] of the [26:19] far-right [26:20] get rid [26:20] of the [26:20] far-right [26:21] not necessarily [26:22] through legal [26:22] measures [26:23] but by [26:23] stopping [26:24] this [26:25] kind [26:26] of [26:26] rhetoric [26:27] that has [26:28] entered [26:28] if I would [26:29] say [26:30] infected [26:31] the [26:31] centrism [26:32] across [26:33] all those [26:34] states [26:34] and look [26:36] to the [26:36] left [26:36] there is [26:37] no other [26:37] way [26:37] forward [26:38] there is [26:39] no other [26:39] way to [26:40] get rid [26:40] of this [26:41] kind of [26:41] poison [26:41] that has [26:42] been [26:43] shaping [26:43] politics [26:44] over the [26:44] past [26:44] 15 years [26:45] thank you [26:46] so much [26:46] we really [26:47] do appreciate [26:47] your time [26:48] Ruth Ferreiro [26:49] Turion [26:49] Rebecca [26:50] Christie [26:50] and [26:50] Yorgos [26:51] Samaras [26:51] thanks for [26:52] joining us [26:53] here on [26:53] Inside Story [26:54] well thanks [26:55] for watching [26:56] you can [26:56] see the [26:57] program [26:57] again [26:57] anytime [26:58] by visiting [26:58] our [26:58] website [26:59] that's [27:00] aljazeera.com [27:01] for further [27:01] discussion [27:02] you can [27:02] go to [27:02] our [27:02] Facebook [27:03] page [27:03] that's [27:04] facebook.com [27:05] forward slash [27:05] AJ Inside Story [27:07] you can also [27:08] join the [27:08] conversation [27:09] on X [27:10] our handle [27:10] is at [27:11] AJ Inside Story [27:12] for me [27:13] Tom McRae [27:13] and the whole [27:14] team here [27:14] goodbye for now [27:15] you