the best analysis moments of CNN's Presidential Debate

[0:00] The president and former president making their way off the CNN debate stage. [0:04] Looks like Jill Biden, the first lady, has come out, former President Trump walking off the stage. [0:10] The first debate of the 2024 campaign and the earliest presidential debate ever now in the books and in front of the voters. [0:16] Tonight, along with Erin Burnett, the first word on what those voters might make of it from our political professionals, from our CNN flash poll and swing state focus group. [0:25] We'll be talking to surrogates, including Vice President Harris, getting fact checks from our Daniel Dale and new reporting from inside both campaigns. [0:30] With me here, CNN political commentator Scott Jennings, Kate Bedingfield, David Urban-Van Jones, Alyssa Farah Griffin and Newsnight anchor Abby Phillip and David Axelrod and CNN chief national correspondent John King. [0:40] John, let me start with you. Your thoughts. [0:42] Anderson, this was a game changing debate in the sense that right now as we speak, there is a deep, a wide and a very aggressive panic in the Democratic Party. [0:52] It started minutes into the debate and it continues right now. [0:55] It involves party strategists. It involves elected officials. It involves fundraisers. [1:00] And they're having conversations about the president's performance, which they think was dismal, which they think will hurt other people down the party in the ticket. [1:08] And they're having conversations about what they should do about it. [1:10] Some of those conversations include, should we go to the White House and ask the president to step aside? [1:15] Others are other of the conversations are about should prominent Democrats go public with that call? [1:20] Because they feel this debate was so terrible. [1:23] They do say in moments in the debate later, the president got better and got his footing. [1:28] But then at the end, even his closing statement was a little halting. [1:31] The contrast between the two candidates. Let me be clear. [1:34] None of them and a lot of Republicans don't think Donald Trump had a great night. [1:37] Donald Trump broke the fact check machine more than I can count tonight. [1:40] That will be on the record as we go forward. [1:42] He refused to answer some very specific and direct questions about his conduct, about January 6th and what all. [1:47] So that will be dealt with out there. [1:49] And sometimes there's a parallel universe between the political elites and the American people. [1:54] Be nice to see what the voters say. [1:56] But I can tell you, it started minutes in. [1:58] It started with the first couple of answers. [2:00] And it has continued throughout the night from a, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God, to what do we do about this? [2:05] And it involves very senior people in the Democratic Party, including elected officials, saying we have a problem. [2:10] And just to co-sign what John is saying, I mean, the panic that I am hearing from Democrats is not like anything that I have heard in this campaign so far. [2:18] And a lot of it has to do with, first of all, there was a deep frustration about Trump's lies. [2:23] I mean, he lied a lot tonight. [2:24] But the problem for Biden was that Trump was able to take some sometimes incredible falsehoods and turn them into some kind of argument, whereas Biden's answers were in a lot of cases not coherent, deeply problematic, that he was not able to take pretty straightforward answers and answer them to the American public. [2:47] And then also, at some points, bringing things up that teed up Trump attacks. [2:53] So there is a real concern here tonight that there's been some real damage done that cannot be undone. [3:00] Biden solidified the perception among voters, but especially among his base. [3:07] They were hoping that tonight would be a game changer. [3:10] They are now seeing a president who is in the White House, who they do not necessarily believe can do this for another four years. [3:20] David Axelrod? [3:22] Look, I can't argue with either of them about how Democrat leaders, Democratic leaders are reacting to this poll. [3:32] We said at the beginning that each person had a fundamental goal. [3:36] And for Biden, that goal was to appear energetic, engaged, and look like someone who is capable of serving for another four years for president. [3:46] That was job number one. [3:47] I actually think he scored a bunch of points. [3:49] I think if you just judge this on sort of policy stuff, he did score a bunch of points on issues like abortion, for example, on some of the economic issues. [4:01] But there is a feeling, I think there was a sense of shock, actually, how he came out at the beginning of this debate, how his voice sounded. [4:14] You know, he seemed a little disoriented. [4:16] He did get stronger as the debate went on. [4:18] But by that time, I think the panic had set in. [4:21] And I think you're going to hear discussions that I don't know will lead to anything. [4:27] But, you know, there is going to be discussion about whether he should continue. [4:32] And I think part of it is Donald Trump did not meet his mission either. [4:36] He could not resist the temptation to be nasty, to prevaricate about a whole bunch of things, about his own record, about Biden's record, and to seem petty and small at times. [4:52] So what you saw was a candidate who's deeply vulnerable and a president who may not be able to take advantage of it. [4:59] Listen, if anybody in America thinks that that was even close to being an okay debate by Joe Biden, I'm living in a parallel universe. [5:10] That was an unmitigated disaster for President Biden from the second he walked out to the closing statement. [5:16] The biggest issue for Democrats is abortion. [5:18] And he couldn't give an answer. [5:20] He gave an answer, he couldn't even give a coherent answer on the biggest issue for Democrats tonight. [5:26] I've heard from leading Democrats across the United States, elected governors, congressmen, who are texting me and saying, I'm worried I'm going to lose if Joe Biden's at the top of the ticket. [5:38] Bob Casey, I promise you tonight, in the state of Pennsylvania, is thrown up in his mouth because he knows that if he's got to stand next to Joe Biden, he's going down in Pennsylvania. [5:48] If he's on the ticket, I don't know how it's going to work. [5:51] Yeah, look, it was a really disappointing debate performance from Joe Biden. [5:54] I don't think there's any way, any other way to slice it. [5:56] His biggest issue that he had to prove to the American people was that he had the energy, had the stamina, and he didn't do that. [6:02] And so I think that is of concern. [6:05] And I think for a lot of Democrats, that's very disappointing. [6:09] I will say Donald Trump also had some really rough moments in this debate. [6:12] And talking to the Biden campaign, they say their dials started really moving away from Trump as he was increasing his personal attacks on Biden. [6:19] So I think there was a lot about his kind of character and the kind of personal nastiness that he was putting on display that doesn't help him with the swing voters that he needs. [6:29] And I also think you saw him continue to get sort of more and more animated across the course of the debate and give some really problematic answers about January 6th, some really problematic answers about Putin. [6:41] So, you know, Donald Trump did not get off scot-free tonight by any stretch. [6:44] But look, there is no two ways about it. [6:47] That was not a good debate for Joe Biden. [6:48] Ben? [6:51] That was painful. [6:52] I love Joe Biden. [6:53] I work for Joe Biden. [6:55] He didn't do well at all. [6:58] He did not do well at all. [7:00] And he looked, you know, I'll give you the analysis. [7:04] You know, you kind of have the old man versus the con man. [7:07] I can walk you through how I'm supposed to see it and say it, but I just want to speak from my heart. [7:14] I love that guy. [7:15] That's a good man. [7:17] He loves his country. [7:18] He's doing the best that he can. [7:20] But he had a test to meet tonight to restore confidence of the country and of the base. [7:26] And he failed to do that. [7:28] And I think there's a lot of people who are going to want to see him consider taking a different course now. [7:36] We're still far from our convention. [7:38] And there is time for this party to figure out a different way forward if he will allow us to do that. [7:43] But that was not what we needed from Joe Biden. [7:46] And it's personally painful for a lot of people. [7:49] It's not just panic. [7:50] It's pain of what we saw tonight. [7:52] And if I may just add to that, I think Joe Biden lost in the first three minutes. [7:56] I think a lot of voters probably tuned out and millions of people are having conversations with their families, with their friends, of if the president is up to the task and if he should step aside. [8:05] And I'm someone who believes the former president is a threat to democracy. [8:09] I think he is a threat to the America as we know it. [8:12] He wants to fundamentally change our institutions. [8:15] He has laid out what his plan is. [8:16] I am not confident that that is the man to take him on. [8:19] You cannot tell me democracy is on the line and then give that performance tonight. [8:23] If based on that in 18 weeks Donald Trump will be the president-elect. [8:27] The people doing focus groups tonight, and we'll see if our dial group with Laura Coates confirms this, say that Biden actually scores pretty well on the issues when he's talking about the substance. [8:37] And Trump's numbers went down both because he was ducking questions, he was lying about some things, and he was refusing to answer. [8:43] And some of it was the tone. [8:44] They don't like him. [8:45] So when you see that, you know, when you see sort of the statistics, you know, you're going to look at like, oh, that's a mixed bag. [8:51] But to Vance's point about the president's performance, that's what caused the panic. [8:55] So the question is, and my question actually is, what happens? [8:59] Because to his, it's a great political strength of Joe Biden, is his resilience and his stubbornness. [9:05] It's also sometimes a blind spot because he is so stubborn. [9:08] It's going to be very hard to someone, and I don't know who it is, who could go to Joe Biden and say, you need to do this, number one. [9:15] And the question is, again, like, I'm just telling you, to Abby's point, I've been doing this for 30-something years, going on 40 years, [9:22] and I have never, ever had what happened on this thing tonight happen in the middle of a debate. [9:27] It started early, and it continued. [9:29] And to Vance's point, Vance made a very important point. [9:31] These are people who love Joe Biden, who credit Joe Biden for kicking Donald Trump out of the White House. [9:37] They're Democrats. The Democratic Party is a very diverse party. [9:40] It fights about a lot of things. It has generational issues. It's had regional issues and everything else. [9:43] The thing that unites the Democratic Party is trying to keep Donald Trump from getting back into the White House. [9:48] They love Joe Biden for kicking him out. They don't want him back. [9:50] They came into this debate nervous that Biden was in a weak position. [9:55] They leave this debate panicked. [9:56] John, if you love the guy, how could you put him out there? [9:59] That's hard. [9:59] If you love him, if you love Joe Biden, if that was my father, you don't put a guy in that situation. [10:04] Well, can I just say, can I just say that? [10:06] At this point, these guys know this better. [10:08] These guys know this better because they talk to them. [10:10] There's this legacy in the Democratic Party. [10:12] You don't challenge the incumbent because when it's happened in the past, [10:15] they haven't beaten the incumbent, and then the incumbent has lost the general election. [10:18] John King, I mean, what happens now? [10:21] Well, a couple of things happen. [10:22] Number one, we wait. [10:23] I would say we should wait. [10:25] We won't, but we should wait a week and see how this settles out in the polling, [10:28] particularly in the battleground state polling, [10:30] and particularly among the most important subgroups. [10:32] What happens right now is I would just say that if the Trump people are running around [10:36] saying they won the debate, we'll see if that holds up. [10:39] Biden lost the debate. [10:41] I don't know if Trump won the debate. [10:42] The early indications we're getting, again, from pollsters and party strategists [10:46] who were talking to people in focus groups and doing dial groups [10:48] is that Trump actually fared pretty poorly on the issues, and his tone was negative. [10:53] So I don't think we don't have any evidence before us right now, [10:56] in the hour after it ended, that Trump gained a lot of new voters. [11:00] Let's put it that way, right? [11:01] Did he hurt himself with the Trump base? [11:02] Absolutely not. [11:03] And so Donald Trump's going to get 40-something. [11:06] He's going to get 40-something. [11:08] Did he grow tonight? [11:09] I'm a little skeptical of that. [11:10] The main issue, though, is the president of the United States, the incumbent. [11:14] Again, I don't know that the old rules apply because he's running against a former president, [11:17] but this is my 10th one of these. [11:19] And when the incumbent is running, the American people are being asked, [11:24] keep what you got. [11:25] Do you like what you got? [11:26] Stay the course. [11:27] That was not a stay the course performance from a president who, when he walked on stage, [11:31] knew the fundamentals of this race were already bent against him. [11:34] They had a 38% approval rating, 60-plus percent of the country thinks we're on the wrong track. [11:39] And as Abby noted earlier, there were already significant doubts about, [11:43] can you do this for four more years? [11:44] It's the toughest job in the world. [11:46] And so even in the middle of the debate saying he had a cold, I have a cold. [11:50] I get it. [11:51] I get it. [11:51] That sucks. [11:52] But he's the president of the United States. [11:55] When the phone rings at 3 o'clock in the morning, the world doesn't matter if you have a cold or not. [11:59] And the president did intensive preparation for this debate. [12:02] I mean, that's the other part of this. [12:04] And they signaled that repeatedly. [12:06] Repeatedly. [12:07] I mean, he was in Camp David. [12:08] All of his top advisors were there. [12:10] They were preparing him as well as they possibly could for this moment. [12:14] He came in here saying, sorry, Van, just a moment, but he had to solidify, and it's not just his base, [12:24] it's who voted for him the last time around, right? [12:27] Now, who voted for him last time around was enough for him to beat Donald Trump. [12:30] Donald Trump can stay just where he was the last time around. [12:33] And if Joe Biden erodes so significantly that it's less than what Donald Trump got, Donald Trump wins. [12:41] Okay? [12:42] That's how the math works here. [12:43] So he has to bring back all of those people, whether they're Democrats or not, who cast a ballot for him. [12:49] Was he able to do that tonight? [12:50] I don't think there's anybody who thinks that he was. [12:52] Well, I tell you, I am starting to get the pushback now from people who are not in agreement with us. [12:59] I just want to get some point. [13:00] I just want to get some point. [13:01] They didn't watch the debate. [13:02] No, no, no, it actually did. [13:03] A major black leader just called me and kicked my butt, and so I just want to give the other side, [13:10] which is that Republicans would never throw their guy overboard, even if they had a guy that had felony convictions, [13:18] even if they had a guy that led an insurrection, even if they had a guy who was a serial liar, [13:23] they would never throw their guy overboard. [13:24] And there are people who are angry tonight. [13:26] The Democratic Party leaders are already abandoning Joe Biden, [13:30] and they're saying that we already know that he's older and slower, but what he stands for matters. [13:36] What he was, if you, as Aserad said, if you wrote out what he said, if you didn't listen to it, [13:40] the substance of what he said is true to the Democratic Party, [13:44] and there's a pushback beginning to say the Democratic Party is too scared to stand up for Joe Biden. [13:49] Other people will. [13:49] Yeah, but Van, can I just respond? [13:52] Yes, sir. [13:53] Listen, I believe this. [13:54] I think when we see sort of voter surveys and so on of people who watch the debate and so on, [14:00] they're going to be a lot different than you might think, [14:03] because I don't think Donald Trump had a great night, [14:05] and I think on substance, Biden did fine, but that wasn't the big question about Biden. [14:12] But here's the thing. [14:14] People can love Joe Biden. [14:16] Lots of Democrats do. [14:17] I worked with him. [14:18] I have deep respect for him. [14:20] Yes, sir. [14:20] But as you said earlier, the stakes are enormous. [14:23] You said democracy is on the line. [14:25] It is. [14:25] And so it becomes less an issue about loyalty to one person [14:30] than to the idea of how much are you willing to fight for... [14:34] I just wanted to give a voice to other folks. [14:37] Let me jump in quickly on this point that Van just made, [14:41] because one of the reasons I started this voter project is Washington is often wrong about these things, [14:46] so I'm always skeptical when all the elites in Washington or the people who live comfortable lives in Washington. [14:50] This conversation is not just Washington. [14:52] I want to make that clear tonight. [14:53] This is Democrats across the country who are watching, [14:55] Democrats who live in competitive areas, Democrats who love Joe Biden. [14:58] It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. [15:01] But the other question I would just raise is, [15:03] so there has to be a conversation with the president after tonight. [15:07] Some of those conversations will be from people who say, [15:09] sir, you should step aside. [15:11] But if you want to take Van's position out there, [15:14] the main organizing impetus in the Democratic Party is keep Donald Trump in retirement. [15:19] Keep him out of the White House. [15:20] So if you won't step aside, what are the conversations about what to do about tonight? [15:24] Those will have to happen. [15:25] So my question for the people who know best, [15:27] and the one who knows the best is sitting right over there, [15:29] is who can have that conversation with the president? [15:31] Who's the only person in the party? [15:33] Bill Clinton or Barack Obama might call him, but I don't know if that would matter. [15:36] Is it Jill Biden, Ted Kaufman? [15:38] Who is it? [15:39] Yes. [15:39] Yes. [15:40] Jill Biden is the single most important person in terms of sharing criticism, [15:45] in terms of being direct. [15:46] But will she? [15:47] Oh, absolutely. [15:48] Absolutely, yes. [15:49] And I imagine that there will be serious conversations within the president's inner circle, [15:55] people like Mike Donilon, people like Steve Braschetti, people like Anita Dunn, [15:58] who will have very direct conversations with the president. [16:00] He is not somebody who shies away. [16:03] He is absolutely, I think as was said earlier, he's absolutely somebody who is stubborn and [16:07] resilient, but he's actually not somebody who shies away from having tough conversations [16:12] and having direct feedback. [16:13] So yes, absolutely. [16:14] I have to imagine there will be direct discussions with him about how to adjust the campaign for [16:19] this. [16:20] But I also think to this point about waiting to see where actual voters land on this is [16:25] critically important before, you know, before the elites sitting at this table determine [16:30] that the rest of the country hated the performance, I think we got to see what voters have to say. [16:34] Back to the panel, joining us as well as Biden biographer Evan Osnos. [16:38] Evan Osnos, you have watched President Biden a lot. [16:42] What did you make of tonight's performance? [16:47] Yeah, I don't think there's any other way to put it. [16:49] This was clearly a person who was diminished from where he was on the debate stage four years ago. [16:56] I think for a lot of Americans who don't follow politics closely, they saw that and they were shocked. [17:02] I will tell you, Anderson, what I see now and over the course of the next few hours and days is it's going to come [17:09] down partly to how Joe Biden makes sense of this because his self-mythology has always been, okay, I'm the guy [17:18] that gets knocked down and I get back up. [17:20] That is, in some ways, it could be a real impediment to him if he's not going to be able to listen [17:26] clearly to what people around him are going to say. [17:29] There has to be some very hard conversations and if he is, in some ways, occluded by that story that [17:35] he tells himself that he can always prevail, that's going to interfere with his ability to be a clear [17:41] strategic thinker. [17:43] And the panel here, John King. [17:45] I just want to make an observation about your interview with the Vice President. [17:48] The Republicans are going to probably disagree with me. [17:51] But I think one of the greatest acts of political malpractice I have seen in my lifetime doing this [17:56] is that they kept her under wraps for three years. [17:59] Now she's out on the road. [18:01] She has great appeals. [18:02] Does she have weaknesses? [18:03] Yes. [18:03] Do Republicans view her as a liability? [18:06] Yes. [18:06] Are her polling numbers great? [18:08] No. [18:08] But she has appeal with the pieces of the Biden coalition where he is hurting the most. [18:13] And when you go into inner center of Milwaukee, what do Black Americans say? [18:17] Where's the Vice President? [18:18] Where has she been? [18:19] They want the President too. [18:20] But she's right there. [18:23] Feisty communicator. [18:24] Good on television. [18:26] And they kept her under wraps for three years. [18:27] Now she's out there busy on the campaign trail. [18:29] I know in places, I know in Republican places, you'd beat her up. [18:32] But in a close competitive race when you need all hands on deck, that is an asset that should [18:38] have been working for them from day one. [18:40] And Joe Biden was Vice President for eight years. [18:42] If there's anyone who should have understood how hard it is to be Vice President, how hard [18:47] it is to establish an identity as Vice President, it's him. [18:49] And again, she's churned through staff. [18:52] She has issues. [18:52] There's no question about it. [18:53] But she also has potential star power. [18:55] And on issues like reproductive rights and in the Black Street community, she is a great [18:59] asset to this team. [19:00] And they have kept her under wraps. [19:01] I would say two things, John. [19:03] She was in charge of the border. [19:05] That was her job at the beginning of the presidency. [19:09] I think she was largely absent from that. [19:11] So you can say what you want. [19:13] I just want to give a quick plug for our colleagues. [19:16] So I think, not our colleagues, but Andersen, your colleague, Dana and Jake. [19:19] They did an incredible job tonight. [19:22] The debate went flawlessly. [19:25] Everybody in the world was watching to see if it was going to be a fair debate, if they [19:29] were going to be favoring one side or the other. [19:31] They played it right down the middle. [19:33] Sure did. [19:34] And America is the better for it. [19:36] So I just like to applaud them and say, great job. [19:39] Second that on Jake and Dan. [19:41] A lot of Republicans were coming after our colleagues this week, and they totally made [19:47] history tonight. [19:48] America needed this conversation. [19:49] They did it. [19:50] Let me just take the other side of this Kamala Harris debate. [19:54] It is a fair question to ask right now, what is going on inside the White House every day? [20:00] Is she currently making more decisions in the White House than we know? [20:04] Who is making decisions in the White House right now? [20:06] We're talking about this in terms of, can Joe Biden win an election and serve for four years? [20:10] I want to know. [20:10] I want to know what's happening on a day-to-day basis. [20:13] To me, she is the big story tonight because her position in this administration, in this [20:17] campaign, has become magnified by a thousand right now. [20:21] The candidate's performance and demeanor tonight, notwithstanding, there is the crucial [20:26] question of the truth of what was actually said on stage. [20:30] And our fact checker, Daniel Dale, joins us now. [20:33] So, Daniel, what stands out to you? [20:36] What stood out was the staggering number of false claims from former President Trump. [20:39] On first count, Aaron, I counted at least 30, 30 false claims. [20:43] Now, President Biden also made false claims, at least nine false or misleading statements [20:48] on first count. [20:49] I'll give you some of them. [20:50] He said he's the only president in a while who didn't have any troops dying anywhere in [20:53] the world. [20:54] Troops have, of course, died on his watch. [20:55] He said he's put in a $15 per shot cap on insulin and Medicare. [20:59] It's a $35 a month cap. [21:01] He said it's a $200 cap on overall drug spending and Medicare. [21:04] It's $2,000 a year. [21:06] He said the border now has fewer crossings than when Trump was in office. [21:09] That's generally not true. [21:10] He said, or at least strongly suggested, unemployment was at 15% when he took office. [21:14] It was actually 6.4. [21:16] He said Trump wants to get rid of Social Security. [21:18] Trump doesn't. [21:19] He said billionaires pay 8.2% in taxes. [21:22] It's much higher. [21:22] He said Trump told Americans to inject bleach amid COVID. [21:25] We know Trump made foolish comments about scientists studying disinfectant injection, [21:30] but didn't frame it as advice to people. [21:31] And Biden said the Border Patrol endorsed him. [21:34] No, its union supported the border bill he'd supported, never endorsed him himself. [21:38] In fairness, the president did appear to clarify that one. [21:41] Now, the Trump list. [21:42] It is way, way longer. [21:44] So, deep breath. [21:45] He said some Democratic states allow people to execute babies after birth, [21:49] an egregious lie that is illegal in every state. [21:52] He said everybody, even Democrats, wanted Roe v. Wade overturned. [21:55] Roe was supported by two-thirds of Americans, even more Democrats. [21:58] He said every legal scholar wanted Roe overturned, abortion returned to the states. [22:02] Legal scholars have told me directly this is not true. [22:05] He said the U.S. currently has the biggest budget deficit ever. [22:08] No, that happened under Trump in 2020. [22:10] He said the U.S. currently has a record trade deficit with China. [22:13] That also happened under Trump in 2018. [22:15] He said Biden personally gets a lot of money from China. [22:18] Zero evidence of this. [22:19] He said there were no terror attacks during his presidency. [22:21] In fact, there were multiple attacks. [22:23] He said Iran didn't fund Hamas, Hezbollah, other terror groups under his presidency. [22:27] Iran, in fact, did. [22:28] He said Biden wants to quadruple people's taxes. [22:31] That is pure fiction. [22:32] He said the U.S. has provided way more aid to Ukraine than Europe had. [22:35] It's actually the opposite. [22:36] He said the U.S. has provided about 200 billion in Ukraine aid. [22:40] It's closer to 110 billion. [22:41] He said 18 or 19 million people have crossed the border under Biden. [22:44] That is millions too high. [22:46] He said many of these migrants are from prisons or mental institutions. [22:49] His own campaign cannot corroborate this. [22:51] He said Biden has only created jobs for illegal immigrants. [22:54] Total nonsense. [22:55] He said Nancy Pelosi turned down his offer of 10,000 National Guard troops on January 6th. [22:59] There's no evidence she even got such an offer. [23:01] It was the president, not Pelosi, who had the power to deploy the D.C. Guard. [23:05] He said Pelosi now acknowledges she turned down the troops. [23:08] No, her office tells me this claim is still a lie. [23:10] He said he deployed the National Guard to Minneapolis in 2020. [23:13] Actually, that was the Democratic governor. [23:15] He spoke of, quote, ridiculous fraud in the 2020 election. [23:18] Zero evidence of any widespread fraud. [23:20] He said NATO was going out of business before he took office. [23:23] Completely, clearly absurd. [23:24] He said the U.S. was paying 100% of NATO before he came along. [23:28] The U.S. made up about 71% of NATO, defense spending, not 100. [23:31] He said he, not Biden, is the one who lowered insulin prices in Medicare. [23:34] He did it for some seniors, but Biden did it for far more. [23:37] He said Biden indicted him. [23:39] Again, no evidence Biden has had a personal role in any of these four prosecutions. [23:43] He said Europe takes no U.S. cars. [23:45] Just not true. [23:46] He spoke of food prices quadrupling under Biden. [23:48] That's a wild exaggeration, though they are up. [23:50] He said Biden made up the idea he called dead service members suckers and losers. [23:54] No, the Atlantic Magazine reported that, and then former Trump chief of staff John Kelly corroborated it. [23:59] He said Biden called black people, quote, super predators for 10 years. [24:03] Biden never once deployed that phrase, let alone for 10 years, though he did at least one speak of, quote, predators without specifying it as about black people. [24:10] He said his Trump tax cut was the largest in U.S. history. [24:12] Not true, though, in fairness, Biden also said this. [24:15] Trump said China and others stopped buying from Iran. [24:18] Under him, China never stopped. [24:20] He revived his pet lie. [24:21] I don't know how many times I've done it, that he signed the Veterans Choice Program into law. [24:24] Barack Obama did that in 2014. [24:26] Trump signed an expanded version in 2018. [24:29] And finally, Trump said Biden got rid of that Veterans Program. [24:32] Biden has not done that. [24:36] Well, if this election plays out like the last one, it will be decided in just a handful of swing states. [24:40] Right now, a quick look at what undecided voters in one of those states, Michigan, thought of what they saw in her tonight. [24:45] CNN's Laura Coach watched the debate with them, joins us now from Warren, Michigan. [24:49] Laura, how was it? [24:53] Anderson, we are right outside of Detroit in McCobbe County at McCobbe Community College. [24:58] It's a really important moment because, as you well know, this is a very important swing state. [25:03] It went for Trump, then it went for Biden, but here in McCobbe County, the votes actually went for Trump. [25:08] And we were sitting with undecided voters to figure out what they were thinking. [25:11] We got the reactions in real time, and there were some very consequential moments here. [25:17] I want to begin, though, with everyone by giving a show of hands. [25:20] I want to ask the people who are with me here today, many of you came in undecided. [25:24] In fact, most of you, by watching this debate, a show of hands, how many of you have now made up your mind? [25:33] This is unbelievable to think about how impactful and influential this very moment was. [25:38] I want to get a sense from all of you. [25:39] We were all watching the appearance of the two candidates. [25:42] What did you make of how they both performed and the way that they were appearing in the camera and beyond? [25:49] Who had a strong reaction, especially to the age component? [25:54] I would have to say, after watching the debate and watching how Biden handled himself and answering the questions, [26:00] it reassured me of his unassurance to be able to lead our country. [26:05] I'm concerned he was hesitant, very not cognitive. [26:07] It seemed like his data, he was missing his numbers. [26:11] So very concerning. [26:13] That's somebody I don't think that needs to lead our country. [26:16] Does anyone share that same opinion? [26:19] A couple of you do. [26:19] Who does not? [26:21] Let me ask you. [26:22] One of the big things that a lot of people forget, when we are typically speaking in day-to-day life, we tend to stutter as well. [26:30] So sometimes it will take time to be able to think about what you're going to say. [26:34] But regardless, when it comes to a strong leader and what we're looking for in a leader, I'm looking for somebody that I trust to be able to uphold policies that will protect me [26:43] and are more concerned for the general well-being of everybody in the United States, which I got more from Biden, [26:49] considering he did a lot more talking about policies, what he's done and what he plans to do. [26:53] Whereas on the other side from Trump, all I really heard was, I've done this and it was the best ever, but I never heard what it was. [27:00] Or I heard that Biden was the worst ever, but I never heard why. [27:04] So there was a lot that was left unclear for me. [27:06] So while he may have appeared like a stronger candidate, on paper, there was a lot missing in terms of actual debate. [27:13] You're nodding along, Victor. [27:15] Why do you say so? [27:16] I would agree with that. [27:17] And the rules of the debate were you could not bring notes or any written material. [27:22] So I'd defy anybody to try to speak for 90 minutes and not forget some facts. [27:27] And the fact that, you know, he struggled with that, he's always had a stuttering problem. [27:32] But like she said, I think the leadership qualities are there. [27:35] There was a very big moment as well in terms of a conversation about the felony convictions. [27:40] As you know, there are 34 counts out of Manhattan for the former president of the United States. [27:45] That was actually addressed today. [27:47] I want to play for you all again and remind you of that moment. [27:52] He could be a convicted felon as soon as he gets out of office. [27:55] Joe could be a convicted felon with all of the things that he's done. [27:58] He's done horrible things. [28:00] All of the death caused at the border, telling the Ukrainian people that we're going to want [28:06] a billion dollars or you change the prosecutor. [28:08] Otherwise, you're not getting a billion dollars. [28:10] If I ever said that, that's quid pro quo. [28:13] How many of you heard that conversation between Trump and, of course, the debaters talking about [28:22] the so-called weaponization of the government? [28:24] Who believes and agrees with Trump here that he was only targeted because he was a political [28:29] opponent of Biden. [28:31] Joe with hands. [28:33] Wendy, you kind of grimaced for a second as to that agreement. [28:36] Why? [28:36] I definitely think that was a political move with the timing of how the charges were brought [28:46] forward and even the charges themselves. [28:49] I'm sure there's many corporations who have employees who take care of the financial documents [29:00] that write down a legal expense and you just pay the bill. [29:05] I mean, I wouldn't question every legal expense on a report, but that's a felony. [29:10] Let me ask you, Steve, as well on this point. [29:14] You seem to be nodding along. [29:15] What's your reaction? [29:17] I think that it's not so much the crime, it's the process or the process leading up. [29:23] They're trying to use up his time so he can't campaign, use his money, his resources to pay [29:29] for legal fees so he can't compete with Biden. [29:32] And I think that his mental acuity is a lot better than Biden's. [29:38] Biden seems to be very tired. [29:41] Actually, I'm tired of both of them because they just keep going back and forth, back and [29:45] forth. [29:47] We just need to get some younger people in there that have clean records that start over. [29:54] Well, there was a moment I want to get to talking about sort of clean records or the [29:58] tit for tats you're talking about. [29:59] There was an exchange happening, this time mentioning the convicted felonies, also the [30:05] accusations of the allegations of having sex with a person who was a porn star, the allegations [30:11] we've heard time and time again. [30:12] There was a moment that our audience here, our focus group of people and undecided voters [30:16] had some pretty strong reactions to. [30:18] And you're going to see on the bottom of the screen how they were reacting, how they were [30:22] divided in different moments and reacting in real time. [30:24] Listen to that moment. [30:26] The crimes that you are still charged with. [30:30] And think of all the civil penalties you have. [30:31] How many billions of dollars do you owe in civil penalties for molesting a woman in public, [30:37] for doing a whole range of things, of having sex with a porn star on the night while your [30:43] wife was pregnant? [30:44] I mean, what are you talking about? [30:47] You have the morals of an alley cat. [30:50] Give me a minute, sir. [30:51] I didn't have sex with a porn star. [30:54] I mean, talking about the morals of an alley cat, for many of you, that was a visual moment. [31:00] What was your reaction? [31:00] The entire time I'm thinking of the fact that I have three teenage boys that are sitting [31:05] back and they're watching this presidential debate. [31:07] And when I was growing up, we would have never been talking about molestation, rape, and having [31:13] sex with porn stars. [31:14] But here we are. [31:15] So what kind of example am I setting for these three teenage boys who are watching both of [31:19] these guys squabble on in this way? [31:22] Which one of you or any of you were satisfied by the debate in terms of their performance [31:26] to make a decision tonight, if you had to vote? [31:31] Would you know who you'd vote for tonight? [31:33] Yes. [31:33] Can I ask you who you thought won, Biden or Trump? [31:36] Biden, show of hands, if you think he won the debate. [31:39] Who thinks that Trump won that debate? [31:41] Who's undecided? [31:42] It's a really telling time, particularly in an area just like this, where those candidates [31:48] are focused on an audience just like this. [31:51] Could they persuade them? [31:52] Could they make them decide? [31:54] Tonight, many have already made up their mind as a result of what we saw. [31:58] Anderson? [31:58] Laura Coates, thanks. [31:59] And thanks to all your group. [32:01] We really appreciate them watching it with us. [32:03] Back with the panel here in Atlanta. [32:07] I'm not sure where to go tonight, but... [32:10] It almost feels like... [32:12] But you had a great point about Kamala Harris right after she talked. [32:17] I just wanted to make sure people got a chance to hear from you on it, because I thought [32:19] it was really well put. [32:20] Well, look, I think it's worth debriefing on that as well, because the conversation [32:25] right now is also about her. [32:28] Yes. [32:29] And I thought her interview with you, Anderson, was one of the best times I've seen her [32:33] in an interview with anyone. [32:35] And she clearly understood the moment, the challenge. [32:38] She needed to defend the president, but she needed to defend herself as well. [32:43] And I think that one of the things that people always want to see more from her is her personality, [32:48] a little bit more fire, a little bit more quickness in responding, even to things that [32:54] are challenging. [32:55] And she showed that tonight. [32:57] And there's probably no more time in the three years that she has been vice president that [33:02] that has been more important than right now. [33:05] Whether or not all this chatter about what happens with Joe Biden means anything or not, [33:11] voters need to understand who she is and whether she has what it takes to be second in line to [33:21] the president. [33:22] The reason I think it's so important is because I think if people had seen that Kamala Harris [33:26] and the kind of confidence I think that she brought out in a lot. [33:30] Last night, I mean, tonight, a lot of Democrats took heart in Kamala Harris. [33:35] She was on our air in other places, and their people are feeling confident in her. [33:39] Had that level of confidence existed in a broader way earlier, people would have less concern [33:43] about Joe Biden. [33:45] Part of the concern about Joe Biden's age has been people not having that confidence in Kamala. [33:49] So it's been this kind of double thing. [33:51] So I do think, I'm just trying to track what's going on here, I do think Kamala Harris did [33:54] herself some good tonight, which ultimately may help. [33:57] Listen, again, where's she been? [33:58] No one's kept her under wraps. [33:59] That's not my job. [34:00] Nobody's locked her in the closet. [34:01] I'm just saying she did good tonight. [34:02] She's not right. [34:03] I'm just saying she did good tonight. [34:05] The vice president of the United States. [34:06] Hubert Humphrey once said, the two biggest clubs in the world are the would-have club and [34:12] the should-have club, and neither are worth belonging to. [34:14] It really doesn't matter now. [34:16] What does matter is what application does it have now, and I'll say one thing. [34:20] She has been doing a lot better lately, and she did, I think, tonight. [34:24] If there's a vice president, you know, for all of the caricaturing of her, I would not [34:29] want to be the person sitting across from her in a vice presidential debate, and there's [34:34] supposed to be one. [34:35] We'll see if it happens.