CNBC's full interview with Ivanka Trump and IMF Director Kristalina Georgieva

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Ivanka, huge news on WGDP, the legislation, the one-year anniversary, the partnership with IMF. What is it all going to allow you to do? [00:00:10] Ivanka: Well, so this is the one-year anniversary of us launching WGDP, which is the first-ever coordinated all-of-government approach to women's economic empowerment. So we are really excited. We set ambitious goals to reach 50 million women in the developing world by 2025 through our programs, through three specific pillars. And this is the first annual report that shows that we've reached and impacted the lives of 12 million women in the developing world in the last 12 months. So we are incredibly excited. And today really is a time for us to come together, representatives from across government, Secretary Pompeo, Secretary Lighthizer, to talk about how we can increase access for trade and markets for women and women business owners around the globe, MCC. So all the relevant Mark Green from USAID to really talk about the progress that has been made and the path forward. [00:01:03] Speaker 1: And this new act, bipartisan, that should codify WGDP into state. [00:01:10] Ivanka: So in a particularly partisan climate, I am really humbled that we were able to get such strong congressional support for WGDP. And it's the result of three years of working with Congress members on both sides of the aisle to craft the initiative, to learn from them what has worked in the past and what hasn't and really to create something new. And so today, a bipartisan bill, aptly called the WGDP Act, is going to be dropped by Senator Shaheen and Senator Lindsey Graham in the Senate. In a couple of days, there will be a counterpart bill in the House. And it will, for the first time in the history of the U.S. government, codify women's empowerment as a foreign policy priority at the State Department and create the appropriate resources. So for years, since the Bush administration, there has never been, there has never been an actual law that talks about the role of women, 50 percent of the world's population, arguably the most undertapped resource in the developing world. And there's never been a priority with funds or with dedicated personnel at the United States State Department. [00:02:28] Speaker 1: So this will change that. So you guys are taking this on the road, you're going to Dubai this weekend. I mean, why, Kristalina, Dubai? I think of the Middle East and I think actually some of the lowest labor force participation rates for women in the world. [00:02:39] Kristalina: Exactly for that reason. It is very important to concentrate on where the barriers for women are still the highest. And I want to give credit to the Middle East. They have taken very decisive steps to open up more space for women to participate in the economy. In fact, Women, Business and the Law, a publication that tracks how well the world is doing in terms of legal rights of women listed among the top 10 reformers, six countries from the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates going to Dubai, Jordan, Tunisia. What we are seeing is finally a recognition that if you want your economy to succeed, never mind which part of the world you are, you ought to give space for women to be part of it. [00:03:39] Ivanka: Yeah, go ahead. Kristalina has been such an amazing champion on this now, obviously, as the managing director of the IMF. But we worked very closely when she was at the World Bank. And it's actually that Women, Business and the Law report that's the underpinning of what's going to be a really landmark report that's being issued today as well. The WGDP index by the Council of Economic Advisers at the White House that actually goes through five of the most foundational legal barriers for women to work and quantifies the cost to the global economy of those barriers. So, the five WGDP laws that we're seeking to change and working very closely with the IMF and Kristalina on including in Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Part of this trip is convening ministers from across the regions and heads of state to discuss areas where they have moved and areas where we'd love to see them move and want to support them in those efforts. So, the five laws relate to the ability to travel freely, not just driving, but get a passport, mobility, more generally. [00:04:46] Kristalina: Without having to ask for permission. Without permission from your husband or father. Exactly, right. [00:04:50] Ivanka: The ability to own, inherit, or manage property. Most people don't realize that in 75 countries across the world, there's at least one law prohibiting women from owning, managing, or inheriting property. Access institutions. How can you start a business if you can't go to a court of law freely? If you can't open, create an LLC, access credit, and then work in the same industries as men. So, 2.7 billion women are precluded from working in the same jobs as men. Oftentimes, Jordan just made a reform, which was very significant. These women weren't allowed to work after 5:00 p.m. [00:05:27] Kristalina: We actually, today, are in a situation in which, on average, women have only 75% of the legal rights of men in the world. And a very small number of countries have eliminated all barriers to women. [00:05:45] Speaker 1: So, you guys are teaming up, actually, and going at the government level. [00:05:47] Kristalina: We want to accelerate closing this gap for women everywhere. And, actually, in Jordan, we have integrated in an IMF program, $1.3 billion program, as priority, the inclusion of women in the labor force, giving them all the legal rights to prosper. [00:06:08] Ivanka: Which is why it's so important having this partnership, because it is important to have these tougher conversations. And I think it's our responsibility. We have to be very strong and diligent fiduciaries to American taxpayers. So, when we think about development assistance, it's different from aid, life-saving intervention. It's different. Development assistance is supposed to culminate in a country being self-reliant and, ultimately, a trading partner. But, too often, development assistance has become almost an entitlement. So, we have to go to these countries and say, look, you receive a lot of taxpayer funds with the goal of you being able to accomplish the goal of being self-reliant. And these are the barriers you have in place institutionally, either culturally or legally. And, many times, it's both. That prohibit women from contributing to your economic growth and prosperity. [00:07:01] Speaker 1: Well, I was just going to ask if it was a tough message, given, you know, the Trump administration in the latest budget, as we've seen in previous budgets, wants to cut foreign aid. If you have a tough time taking this message on the road of international development, while at the same time sending, perhaps, a mixed signal there on aid. [00:07:17] Ivanka: I actually don't think it's a mixed signal. I think we have to be rigorous and responsible, define our priorities. We have to measure programs and make sure that we're funding those programs that actually have provable and measurable results. And then there are choices, right? And there's a difference, like I said, between aid, life-saving intervention, famine prevention, and development assistance. Development assistance is supposed to result in it no longer being needed. And that just doesn't happen in a lot of cases. So, I think, to the taxpayer, I believe that this is very aligned with the America First policy. Because it's saying, look, we will support you. And we are proud of, for decades, being the most generous country in the world in terms of the assistance that we provide. Obviously, we have our priorities. The amount of intervention we're doing to help the people of Venezuela far exceeds previous budgets. So, you know, our development assistance and aid aligns with the president's goals and priorities and where geographically it's core and most needed. But this aligns with America First, too, because it can't be a one-way street. If there is going to be receipt of large-scale development assistance, there has to be cooperation towards achieving a result. And this is the first time through WGDP the whole of government is organized. I mentioned the five laws. That's not all the laws that hold back women. There are child care issues there. But if you can't access institutions, if you can't work in the same industries as men, if you can't own property, these are so foundational that let's start there rather than going a mile wide an inch deep. Let's start to reform those laws. [00:09:01] Speaker 1: I just want to follow on the values question. Because a lot of people, I mean, the Trump administration does sometimes get criticized for its narrative around women. And there have been examples from the administration on reproductive rights, on having judges that are pro-life. Do you find at all that that's a difficult message for you to sell to empower women at the same time? [00:09:22] Ivanka: I think you look at what is happening to women in this country and around the globe. First of all, this is the first time globally that it's ever been a priority. It's part of the president's own national security strategy, this goal of uplifting women. Domestically, women are thriving like never before. The fact that in 2019, of all the new jobs secured, 72% of them went to women. The fact that women's unemployment rates are at the lowest they've been in 75 years. The fact that women, for only the second time in history, comprise more of the U.S. workforce than men. The fact that we've backed policies that not only create the growth that enable that type of economic opportunity, but also recognize the complexity of being a woman by supporting high-quality child care for parents who are working and can't afford it. And that is an undeniable work-related expense. And our budget, and not only our budget, we got it passed through Congress, the largest ever expansion of the child care and development block grants, which is money that we send to the states to help offset the cost of child care. So helping with child care, paid family leave. We've moved the ball more on paid family leave than in the 25 years since FMLA was passed. And now we, as a federal government, under law, are giving it to all our federal workers. And we're the largest workforce in the country. In addition, we created a tax credit. So women are thriving in the Trump economy. And our track record and the record of success backs that up. [00:10:54] Speaker 1: Speaking of the Trump economy and the U.S. economy in general, I have to ask you about coronavirus and what the impact is going to be both on the U.S. economy and the global economy at this point. [00:11:05] Kristalina: Well, it is still too early to make projections for the impact. We are still at the point of scenarios of the impact. The baseline scenario is a V-shaped dramatic decline and very significant recovery. For China. For China and therefore a mild impact on the rest of the world. But would that happen? This is what happened during the SARS epidemics at that time. However, the virus was different. China was different. The world was different. This virus is clearly more impactful. China then was only 8% of the world economy. Today, it is 19%. Today, China manufactures 28% with possible impact through value chains on other countries. Today, the Chinese tourists spent 18 cents on the dollar. Way more. Way more than in these days. And the world economy then was in a very strong position. The world economy today is somewhat less strong. I was going to go to that. The US economy is very strong. We project the US to grow above potential this year and next year. And therefore, we have a situation here domestically that is much more. [00:12:48] Speaker 1: You think that the US can keep up the 2% growth level even with China grinding to a halt? [00:12:53] Kristalina: For now, we are projecting 2% for 2020. Again, we need to see. Ask me in 10 days. Because in 10 days, we would know what is happening with the value chains, with China reopening. But let me just stress that we have to recognize the ability of China to mobilize more liquidity, which they have already done. They poured $115 billion in the economy. Their ability to add stimulus if this is necessary. And by doing so, helping themselves, but also smoothing the impact on the world economy. And yet, too early to say. [00:13:34] Speaker 1: How do you guys, how do you at the administration feel that you can, how hard do you think it's going to be to maintain this 2% growth of super low unemployment through the election? [00:13:45] Ivanka: We're incredibly confident. We think all the fundamentals are there from consumer confidence to new business formation. We just signed into law after a year of being stuck in Congress. But we finally, finally got USMCA signed into law. And that will have a tremendous impact on GDP. We're estimating at least a half a point annually over the course of the agreement. And the tariffs are also bringing in revenues. And the tariffs are allowing us to have tough conversations with our friends and our partners about reforms that need to be made. And also the US-China agreement. [00:14:24] Speaker ?: Yes. [00:14:24] Kristalina: We were very pleased when the US-China first phase was signed. What we saw was... [00:14:30] Speaker 1: But you guys were not happy with the tariff approach. [00:14:32] Kristalina: Of course, we would prefer the world economy to have the engines of growth trade in full speed. And we really, really hope that we will move from what is now trade truth to trade peace. And actually, women are great in driving peace everywhere. But I want to say that we do believe that we have to continue on that trajectory of removing barriers to trade and recognize that the trade system needs modernization. Absolutely. We, today, we still do not have services integrated in WTO. We don't have e-commerce, which is the driver of growth in many places, not integrated with WTO. We still have problems with intellectual property rights. So we have to accept that focus on modernizing the trade system is as important as focus on removing tariffs and other barriers to trade or even more important. [00:15:43] Ivanka: The president's a big believer in the power of tariffs. And I think we've seen that belief manifest in the largest trade deal in American history, USMCA, and now the beginning of some real progress with China that we expect to continue. But people have been trying for a long time and not getting anywhere. So it is very significant what the president's been able to do. And Kristalina makes an amazing point about these non-tariff barriers that exist. And they're significant. I mean, the IP theft is a major issue. The restrictions to accessing markets is a major issue. So there are all sorts of other issues that exist that have to be part of this conversation. Do you expect that we're -- [00:16:27] Kristalina: But we still want -- we still want trade peace. [00:16:29] Ivanka: Yeah. We still want that. We want to get to -- Fair and reciprocal trade is what everyone wants. Do you expect we'll get phase two before the election? The president has made his point of view clear on this. So we will do the deal when it's the right time to do the deal. And we don't want to put pressure beyond -- he'll only make a deal that's great for the United States. [00:16:47] Kristalina: And right now, right now, China is a bit more focused domestically. We have to recognize that for China, right now, the most important thing is to concentrate on containing what is a terrible human tragedy. We talk about economic impact, but there is loss of life and tremendous suffering of people. China is concentrating on the right thing at the moment. Make sure that they can contain the virus, protect their own economy, protect the world economy. [00:17:18] Speaker 1: Just to bring it back full circle to the WGDP conversation and the big day that you have planned. And is this -- Ivanka, do you feel responsible for courting women voters in the election and sort of talking about these issues and your initiatives? That is not what drives me. [00:17:33] Ivanka: I loved my life back in New York. I had a very successful business, a young family. What brought me to D.C. is the power to impact positive change in people's lives. And domestically, I'm really proud of the work I've been able to do through tax reform. Well, of course, I think we have a track record that we should be talking to the American people about, not just what we will do, but what we've accomplished. I mean, tax reform, the child tax credit alone, 40 million American families will receive an average of $2,200 in their pockets in 2019 alone. What we've been able to do around education, what we've done with HBCUs, historically black colleges and universities getting permanence of funding. We have implemented so many policies that positively impact Americans. And I think it is our responsibility to let people know what it is that we're doing, what we've done, and what we hope to accomplish going forward. [00:18:34] Kristalina: I want to get to the main topic, which is improving the lives of women all over the world. And taking that message that it is not only morally right, but also economically advantageous for countries. And something that we didn't talk much about, it is a critical component for peace and security for today and for the future. Women can be a huge factor of positive change. Absolutely. Let me finish with my biggest number. If today we were to wake up with women being equal to men everywhere, the world would be 160 trillion dollars richer and a happier place for all. [00:19:32] Speaker 1: Do we need to see a female U.S. president in our lifetime? [00:19:34] Kristalina: I certainly hope that we would see more women in leadership positions everywhere. [00:19:40] Ivanka: Do you agree with that? Absolutely. I think it's critically important across the spectrum from entry to leadership at the highest level. And I'm glad Kristalina, who's become an amazing friend from first at the World Bank and now at IMF and just doing such unbelievable work and is a tremendous example of formidable leadership in her own right and has broken so many barriers through her career and is just getting started. But I'm really happy she brought up the security component because women are at the forefront of ensuring that their children are not radicalized. They're the ones oftentimes holding communities together when the men are engaging in intra or interstate wars and helping rebuild those communities. So it is not an accident that the president established WGDP as a national security presidential memorandum to operationalize our national security strategy. Very intentionally saying this is a security issue. We need to ensure that women are able to feed their children, provide for their families. A lot of times you go to countries and women are the ones doing the work. It's just the men who are taking the product to the market. So empowering them because we know that women invest back into their families, back into their communities, into things like education and health care and the return on investment is greater. [00:21:07] Speaker ?: For more information, please visit www.fema.org/credi.com/credi.com/credi.com/credi