Unpacking possible impacts from Trump's order on childhood vaccines

[0:00] We're going to open tonight with science news because President Trump signed an executive order late this afternoon that could dramatically overhaul the way parents and children receive and regard scientifically proven vaccines for a wide array of diseases. [0:16] Though there was not an explicit connection drawn during Trump's remarks, the implication was left heavily in the air that current vaccine schedules have something to do with the prevalence of autism. [0:30] Numerous studies, we should point out, have found no connection whatsoever. [0:36] Trump also said millions of American parents feel coerced by the current scheduling system and therefore, he said, need the freedom to space out vaccination shots for their children. [0:49] When asked how parents would cover co-pays for numerous visits, Trump said he didn't know, but that he would be working on that. [0:57] There's also the practical question of pediatricians finding time and space to administer numerous shots under already crowded office conditions. [1:05] Trump also said there was no risk to changing current methods. [1:11] Quote, nothing bad can happen, he said. [1:15] Ed O'Keefe will start us off tonight and then we will explore this at length with CBS News Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. John LaPook. [1:21] Ed? [1:23] You want science news, we may be bringing you the weather as well here, Majoris. [1:27] There's a bit of a downpour here at the White House. [1:29] But look, this new order signed by the president doesn't set immunization requirements or tell parents how to vaccinate kids. [1:36] Only state governments can do that. [1:38] But it does revive at a key moment in this election season a debate that is at the heart of the support many have for him and his political movement. [1:48] We should point out that this essentially recommends states separate the traditional measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, one shot into three different shots. [1:57] And then says that the federal government at least recommends the vaccinations for hepatitis B, COVID-19 and influenza, among others, are no longer recommended for all children. [2:07] But as you pointed out, decades of research in numerous countries with millions of children in these different studies have found no link between vaccination schedules and autism, [2:19] despite the president's doubts and the doubts raised by many in his political coalition. [2:23] He talked about this a little while ago in an Oval Office event. Take a listen. [2:28] The worst thing that would happen would be nothing happens. [2:32] We're not going to lose anything. [2:35] At the same time, we could gain tremendous, we could save hundreds of thousands of lives, millions of lives. [2:42] And I wish we could have done it a long time ago. [2:44] You know, we got stopped by court. [2:46] We had a court, I guess, in Massachusetts that stopped us very early on. [2:50] I believed in this for a long time, so now we're getting it done. [2:55] That federal court has blocked the Department of Health and Human Services for making changes in vaccine recommendations at the federal level [3:02] without first consulting federal health experts. [3:05] The president today trying to move forward, regardless with this executive order that will inevitably be challenged in court. [3:11] We should point out that among the medical professionals today, raising doubt and criticizing the president strongly for this, [3:17] Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, who is the physician, and says in part on X Today, [3:22] parents should listen to their child's pediatrician about vaccines rather than listening to an inaccurate executive order. [3:30] This is so wrong. [3:31] Major, we are under a tent, but I'm going to send it back to you. [3:35] Yes, I have been under that tent, Ed. [3:37] I know it is largely waterproof, but I want you to stay safe. [3:41] I want you to dodge all lightning bolts and be there for us tomorrow, because we need you every night, my brother. [3:47] Ed O'Keefe from the Weather Channel, and we do appreciate it, my sir. [3:52] Dr. Lepouk, please help us understand what this does, what it doesn't do, and what are the risks implicit? [4:00] Well, you know, I think the first thing that strikes a lot of us is that this is somebody getting up there [4:06] and making a proclamation, but, you know, as my math teacher used to say, show me your homework. [4:12] So the usual procedure is that there's a meeting by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices. [4:17] It's over a two- or three-day period. [4:19] It's boring as anything, Major. [4:21] I've sat through them, and all the stakeholders there, researchers and farmers and the public, [4:26] and after a few days, they vote, committee votes, and they make a recommendation, [4:31] which then goes to the CDC director who can accept it or reject it. [4:35] This just bypasses that. [4:37] So it's not the way usually things are done. [4:41] It doesn't give the community of doctors and other researchers the ability to say, [4:46] okay, how did you come to that conclusion? [4:50] But the White House kept saying today, the president and those standing with him in the Oval Office, [4:54] that this is the result of gold-standard scientific research, [4:59] that they've discovered new things that were undiscovered before [5:03] and risks that were not fully appreciated before. [5:06] Is any of that true? [5:07] Well, again, show us your homework. [5:09] You know, you have to keep an open mind. [5:11] We don't know everything. [5:13] But as Ed said in the piece, you know, there have been extensive research and studies. [5:17] Over more than a million kids were involved in one study in Denmark [5:21] showing no association between vaccines and autism. [5:26] And, you know, one thing especially struck me that the president said today, [5:30] he said nothing bad can happen. [5:32] And I'll give you an example of something that potentially could happen that's bad. [5:36] There is a real misconception about hepatitis B vaccine, [5:40] which now is, they're saying, okay, you don't, you don't, [5:43] that's not recommended to be given at birth. [5:46] Because the assumption, which is not correct, [5:48] is that you can only get hepatitis B if you're an infant from an infected mother. [5:52] In fact, you can get it from close contact, [5:55] from contact by the fluids of a caregiver, [5:58] of somebody who's taking care of you. [6:00] It turns out that that more than 600, actually more than 800,000 Americans have hepatitis B, [6:06] chronic hepatitis B, and about half of them don't know it. [6:09] And of the people who do know it, half of them don't know how they got it. [6:12] So you could, I'm not trying to be a scary, you know, scare people, [6:15] but you could have a caregiver, for example, who's infected with hepatitis B, [6:19] they wouldn't know it, and they can infect a newborn. [6:22] Now, if a newborn gets infected with hepatitis B, [6:24] there's a 90% chance that that baby will go on to have chronic hepatitis B. [6:30] And I'm a gastroenterologist, and I've seen what happens to that, [6:32] including life-threatening things, liver failure, [6:36] and even severe gastrointestinal bleeding. [6:39] I've been by the bedside of a patient with hepatitis B, [6:42] in fact, many of them who have actually just died [6:44] because of extensive bleeding we couldn't keep up with. [6:47] So the thought that, like, nothing bad can happen, I think that's not true. [6:53] Ed O'Keefe mentioned Senator Bill Cassidy, who's a physician. [6:56] At an ex-post he put out about this. [6:59] Reading also from that, he says, Dr. Cassidy, Senator Cassidy, [7:04] breaking up vaccines will mean children will have to get more shots [7:07] to get the same protection, not fewer shots. [7:11] It will increase hesitancy and make children less safe. [7:14] Do you agree or disagree with that? [7:16] I actually do agree, based on what the American Academy of Pediatrics is saying [7:20] and other people. [7:21] And you always have to ask yourself when there's a new recommendation, [7:25] what's the new data that came out? [7:27] That made them say, okay, now we used to do this, [7:29] now we're going to do that. [7:30] Show us your homework. [7:33] One last thing, Dr. LePouc, just practically, [7:35] the president was asked about this, he had no answer. [7:38] This means more visits, which means more co-pays, [7:41] which means more logistical hassles for parents, [7:44] for children, and for pediatricians and their staff. [7:46] That's a real issue, is it not? [7:48] It's a real issue. [7:49] And you think where we are in kind of limbo, [7:51] where you have the American Academy of Pediatrics [7:53] making one recommendation, [7:55] the president of the United States [7:56] making another recommendation, [7:57] where does that leave parents? [7:59] Well, I would say, [8:00] if there ever was a time to talk to your caregiver, [8:02] it's now. [8:03] But again, who's going to pay for those visits [8:05] and the extra visits you mentioned? [8:08] Dr. John LePouc, always a pleasure, sir. [8:10] Thank you. [8:10] Thank you.