Trump's climate change policies: Dead or dormant? - The President's Path podcast, BBC World Service

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: I mean, it's a long time since I've said it on this podcast, but drill, baby, drill. Who can forget about that? You know, I mean, and the bill also puts in a lot of tax credits, I guess, for in a positive sense for drilling, which builds on what the administration has been doing about opening up parts of this country for drilling and for exploration. Here we are another week and keen listeners and viewers will note that this is not Bernie sitting here, that this is Finn Gomez, political director at CBS News, who oversees CBS political reporting at the White House and everywhere, who has joined us this week. Finn, you're very welcome. Great to have you. I'm so grateful to be on. And for those who are missing Bernie, because we know, Sumi, don't we, that he has a lot of fans and admirers. He's got fans. I'm a fan. Yeah. Well, Bernie gets a lot of messages on social media about his, we can say this because he's not here. We can embarrass him, his sex appeal. So just let everyone know if you want to get in touch with Bernie or me and Sumi or Finn about anything, you can email us at path at bbc.co.uk. But it has been a week, hasn't it, here in the US and around the world where major weather events have been dominating. I mean, here in particular, the desperate, desperate, desperate tragedies in Texas, still ongoing, still that search and rescue recovery operation, but there have been wildfires in Europe as well, in France. So we were kind of thinking this might be a good week to take a step back and have a look at what President Trump and his administration are doing when it comes to climate policies, environment policies, because they've been really, really active in that area. [00:01:50] Finn Gomez: Yeah, they have definitely. And if you look at the messaging from the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, under Lee Zeldin, who Donald Trump appointed to lead that agency, it really has been a 180 U-turn on the type of messaging that we used to hear from the EPA on the need for environmental protection to combat climate change. And now if you look at also the policies that were passed under the one big, beautiful bill, they also attempt to dismantle or do dismantle many of the clean energy policies that President Biden put in place when he was in office. And so, you know, you have things like the tax credits for electric vehicles that were phased out under the one big, beautiful bill. You know, we saw in the Biden administration, there were credits not only for clean energy vehicles, but also smart, energy efficient homes, businesses as well. You see in the language of the one big, beautiful bill, this real turn to fossil fuels again. And it's a reminder of just what a stark difference there's been between these two administrations. [00:02:51] Speaker 3: I mean, I would just add that, you know, in speaking to several leaders within the renewable energy industry, I mean, this, the BBB or the passage of the big, beautiful bill, Trump's big, beautiful bill, the big budget bill, in those rollbacks on climate, it sent really shockwaves through their industry just about how deep and how significant they think it's going to really impact their industry. I mean, and like, assuming like you said, it is night and day from what we saw at the tail end, especially at the end of the Biden administration. So, you know, and some other experts from this field I spoke to, and they feel that this does potentially set back, you know, at least in the climate change [00:03:35] Speaker 1: efforts by the US for perhaps a generation. And also, if we're going to, if we talk about the bill for a moment or act as it is now, because of course, it's been signed into law by the president, it really targets consumers in a way I think that wasn't discussed. I mean, when all of those late night, backwards and forwards things were happening in the House and the Senate, the focus very much was on Medicaid, wasn't it? And, you know, the millions of people that were going to be kicked off Medicaid. But actually, there are many, many surveys out that this bill will put up, you know, cost of living for consumers in very many ways, that energy bills ultimately will go up, that yes, those credits will be removed. And, you know, when you're listening to so many policies about how you should be putting a solar panel on your roof, that's going to be phased out the tax credits for that by the end of the year, that will put energy bills up. And also, just the regulations right across the country as well for other things. I mean, it's a long time since I've said it on this podcast, but drill baby drill, you can forget about that, you know, I mean, and the bill also puts in a lot of tax credits, I guess for, in a positive sense, for drilling, which builds on what the administration has been doing about opening up parts of this country for drilling and for exploration. [00:04:58] Speaker 3: And Katrina, if I could just add also, I mean, honestly, there is like political ramifications here, right? We, the three of us, we geek out in politics. I know we covered the 2020 campaign trail, we know it, you know, but you know, he did a, one, he campaigned on this. He campaigned, there was no, there was, there was no, he was very, very open about it. You just mentioned drill, baby drill. I mean, that immediately it connects him to the platform that he ran on. So this is expected, but it's also how they really use those pithy remarks and make political impact, right? But you know, it is tied into what he's been talking about a long time. However, the political, political ramifications are here, as you so correctly noted, look, this can impact people at home. He won on the economy. He won of not just the economy, but the cost of things, inflation, kitchen table items that have impacted voters across the political spectrum. And that's why he did so well with like Latino voters, for example, 48%, according to Pew, that's a huge number by the way, but they, he won it, he won them on these kitchen table issues. Now, if there's a backlash, if they start feeling that, plus you include the tariffs, right, that they absolutely have an impact on, on people wallets and budgets at home, like it changes the political game. I mean, it split up pretty much split up one of the most famous political bromances in history. Elon Musk is now, you know, forming his own party, you know, and all that. And because of this, part of it is because what was inserted in that BBB. I mean, for sure. And it wasn't just about the, the rebates. It was those other areas like solar and wind, that really took some devastating hits here. I think their big answer to all of this and [00:06:38] Finn Gomez: the question about whether costs will rise for families at home is deregulation. And that's something we've seen specifically with Drilled Baby Drill and to your point, Katrina, about opening up federal lands for drilling and forest land for lumber. And that is what the Trump administration says will bring down costs for Americans, energy costs in particular. And they keep pointing, of course, to the gas prices that have come down. They pointed to the fact that inflation has come down significantly and the economy is doing quite well. But, you know, particularly when it comes to environmental policy, it is seen by many in the Trump administration and quite frankly, you know, other Republicans who want to see broad deregulation for building, for construction, they see it as a hindrance to precisely that type of economic growth. And, you know, I thought it was interesting, the EPA recently, there were, I think, almost 140 employees of the EPA who were put on leave, administrative leave, because they had signed an open letter complaining about some of the EPA's new practices. And one of the, or some of the points that they made in this letter are things like, you know, promoting fossil fuels and ignoring signs on climate change. But they also point out out, rolling back regulations on cancer causing chemicals, for example. And you do wonder if this push for deregulation, which on the one hand, is being used as this argument for why costs can come down again in the US, whether that's going to be something that really is going to have damaging, lasting effects when it comes to the climate and environment piece of this. [00:08:11] Speaker 3: Yeah. And, you know, I think it was 139 staffers from, from the EPA, but also there was like, you know, Katrina, there was like the 800, it was like about 800 employees at NOAA, right? That were cut. [00:08:24] Speaker 1: Yeah. They were, they were cut, right? You know, and it's like way back in February, right? It was one of the first things that he did. [00:08:30] Speaker 3: Like, yeah, exactly. It was like a doge effort, essentially. And they did that. And then, of course, as you mentioned, you know, you know, everything, the terrible events that happened in Texas, that brought up, brought up criticism from Democrats and other critics saying, hey, by you, by the administration coming to these jobs, and in particular, I think one of them, it was like the one who was responsible for NOAA based out of San Antonio, who was, who was, who oversaw like that sort of detection and, and distributing that information. He had, he had taken like a buyout, essentially. And so I think that, you know, there were questions, well, whether, hey, is this is this going to have an impact on these, these sort of natural disasters, especially while we're in the middle of hurricane season. And as you know, and as climate change specialists say, hey, you know, some of these adverse weather events are happening because of climate change. So it's kind of this, this ironic sort of twist here. And, and, and, and the administration has faced criticism over it. [00:09:33] Speaker 1: And we should just explain for our non-American listeners, NOAA is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which is a scientific agency, isn't it? That looks at changes in the environment. And it also operates the National Weather Service, the NWS, which does those forecasts and issues, those emergency warnings and those alerts, which is you're saying, Finn, so much of the discussion and the debate here in the last week, and you have to do it very sensitively, because obviously at the heart of this is an unbearable tragedy. I mean, even mentioning it now, it just, it's heartbreaking, isn't it? And you know, it'll be like, those communities will, will never recover from this. But you, the debate perhaps, you know, will grow, I think, in the weeks ahead, when it kind of, the, the initial rescue efforts have been completed, and people look for reasons why, why all these children and so many other people died, why that flash flood came, and without, it would appear a huge amount of warning. And, you know, we're talking about cuts to federal workers on NOAA and the NWS staffing is down. I just looked this up before we came in 20%, 20% at nearly half of the field offices. And there are at least six offices nationwide who don't have staff 24 hours a day anymore. Now, the one in this case, that, that was not the situation in Texas, we have to point out. And they have said, the workers there, that they did have enough people on duty. And although those senior posts weren't filled, there were people acting up into them. And sometimes terrible things just happen, right? We have to acknowledge that. But, you know, the White House is also trying to cut the budgets of these agencies as well, isn't it, by massive amounts, 25%, 27%, which is staffing largely, but also is, is other things that they see aren't where the [00:11:36] Speaker 3: priorities should, should be on this? Well, I think, you know, I think you saw that a lot of supporters in, you know, do believe, and they have believed for a long time, about scaling back, cutting down federal spending, right? And I think that's something that's been at the heart of the Republican Party for a long time. That's changed. I mean, I think with this new act, this, this law that's became, you've seen, you've seen it also, you know, there's some projections, CBO said, Congressional Budget Office, who assesses these things, said that the, that it could, it could raise, increase, you know, the deficit by as much as $3 trillion, right? There's sort of, it goes sort of against the grain of, of traditional Republican thinking. However, I think those who supported him knew he was going to target that. But what I don't think they, in speaking to some administration officials, what I don't think they expected, well, is that there has been pushback in some of these areas, because some of these areas that have been affected by these extreme weather events, are Republican areas, the Republican congressional districts, the Republican states, with Republican leadership to represent them in the halls of Congress. And I think now, when you start seeing more of that, or potentially start seeing more of that, I think that will register more. And, and it's no longer, you don't, you can no longer point the finger at the, at the previous administration. I mean, going back to politics, I'm a politics guy. And, you know, like, I go back to this. This is, you know, this, this is, this is what I do when I daydream. I think about politics, like that. [00:13:10] Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about pizza. I don't know. Yeah. Do you at least have a margarita with the politics [00:13:15] Speaker 3: dream? Yeah. That's literally the, the lamest thing probably anyone has ever heard. He's heard, listen to your, to your amazing podcast, but no, but there are like, I think what we're seeing in is right now is that you could see a, really a backlash become not only these gubernatorial races that are coming up in the United States in the fall in Virginia and also in New Jersey. Right. But also with the next year's midterms, where really, I think, you know, Democrats especially have like taken those two issues that you've talked about, Katrina, these two areas, and they're, they're utilizing it. They're utilizing it. They're testing it, the poll testing it, and they're utilizing it. They're, they're, they're ready to, to, to march with a strategy that says the Trump administration has taken away your rights, has taken away your, you know, your, your resources. I mean, this is what they're going to say. This is their argument and what they told me, but this is essentially what to expect. Lots of stuff to ponder with those margarita [00:14:13] Speaker 1: political dreams. And for all of us and our listeners and viewers as well, but we will have to wrap it up there because we are out of time. Um, but Ben, thank you so much for being with us this week. It's been a real treat to have you. Thank you. Thanks. And I'm, uh, and I have to run too, [00:14:31] Speaker 3: because I have to go join the, the Bernie, uh, you know, uh, fan club meeting. We all love you, Bernie. [00:14:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay. If you enjoyed this episode of the president's path, then like, and subscribe to our YouTube channel and we'd love to hear from you. So please leave us a comment below or email us on path@bbc.co.uk.