Trump and Biden face off in chaotic first 2020 presidential debate — FULL DEBATE

[0:00] debate of the 2020 election. For the first time since October 2016, President Trump will share [0:06] the stage with a political opponent, Democratic presidential nominee and former Vice President [0:11] Joe Biden. Here's a look at the stakes for tonight. About three quarters of likely viewers, [0:16] people who say they'll watch, are tuning in to see how their candidate does. Just 6% say they're [0:22] watching because they're still deciding whom to vote for. 6% may not sound like a lot, but it can [0:28] take less than that to flip a state. 13 states plus Nebraska's second congressional district [0:33] saw a margin smaller than 6% in the 2016 election. Together, they're worth 162 electoral votes, [0:43] more than half the 270 needed to win the presidency. Caitlin Huey Burns and Nicole Killian join me now. [0:50] Caitlin is CBSN's political reporter. She is in Cleveland tonight. And Nicole is a CBS News [0:56] correspondent covering all things out of Washington. Welcome to you both. All right, Caitlin, [1:02] let me start with you. The number of persuadable voters may be relatively small, but how important [1:07] are undecided voters at this moment in the campaign? Right, that number of undecided voters is very [1:16] small. We have fresh new polling out from CBS News that shows a vast majority of people that are going [1:22] to be watching this debate tonight. Likely voters, 73% say that they've already chosen a candidate and [1:29] they're tuning in to see how that candidate does. About 41% are tuning in just for the entertainment [1:36] value alone. About 8% are tuning in because they have nothing else to watch. So maybe they have [1:41] exhausted all of the options on Netflix. And here's the key number, 6%, 6% of likely voters in our poll [1:49] tonight say they are tuning in to figure out who they are going to vote for. So it's a very small [1:54] margin, a very small number. We've been talking all day about, are there any of these persuadable [2:00] voters left in an election that is increasingly becoming all about turning out your base? Who are [2:07] these voters that are going to be tuning in tonight? Just 6% of them looking to see how Biden and Trump do [2:12] against each other. We know, as we've been talking about also, that Democratic Party voters have been [2:18] waiting for tonight, this entire campaign, going all the way back to Iowa in 2019, when I was out [2:24] there covering one of the first presidential events by Elizabeth Warren, who announced her candidacy. [2:30] Voters even then were saying that the way that they were going to measure up these candidates [2:34] running for the Democratic nomination was imagining them on a debate stage with Donald Trump. [2:40] So tonight, we'll see what their expectations are and if they paid off. [2:44] Yeah, I remember you telling us about that all those months ago. Well, Nicole, of course, one big [2:51] difference about this election cycle is that voting is already underway. Close to 1.3 million people [2:58] have already voted. In the battleground state of Wisconsin, they're already at a 10th of 2016 turnout. [3:04] So how does that change the dynamic of the race and the debates? [3:10] Well, I think it does and it doesn't. I mean, that is a lot of people, but there's still a lot of people [3:15] who haven't voted. And so whether someone is voting absentee, voting by mail, voting early [3:21] in person, which we've seen that in a number of states are just waiting until Election Day [3:26] to cast their vote. You know, voters make up their minds when they make up their minds. And while many [3:32] have, there are still some out there that haven't. I've been traveling across a couple of states [3:37] recently where I have encountered people who, a few at least, who are still undecided. [3:43] So to Caitlin's point, you know, even if it is a relatively small number by our polling standards, [3:49] certainly this presents an opportunity for voters to put these two candidates side by side and see [3:56] how they match up against each other. And also, again, you know, as Caitlin mentioned, certainly [4:03] with the latest polling also showing that people just want to see how these candidates do. And I was [4:08] struck by that number that some are just tuning in for the entertainment value of it all. But, [4:12] you know, the bottom line is certainly it will be a factor for some voters as far as their decision [4:18] to others. It may reinforce the decision they've already made. [4:23] Yeah. Well, we know that tonight's debate topics are broken up into six different segments as chosen [4:29] by the moderator, each for about 15 minutes. Caitlin, in which topics do you see the candidates [4:35] gaining an advantage? [4:39] Well, I think the focus on two topics that are top of mind for voters heading into this November [4:44] election, the coronavirus pandemic and the economy. On the coronavirus pandemic, Joe Biden has shown [4:51] in battleground states and nationally that he leads on that measure, that Americans by and large [4:56] disapprove of the president's handling of coronavirus and are supporting Biden on that measure. [5:02] But when it comes to the economy, that's been the silver lining for Donald Trump. He's been leading [5:07] on the measure of the economy, trying to make that argument that the economy was good [5:11] before the pandemic happened. So this is going to be an instance where you'll see the president [5:17] on offense going after Joe Biden, probably on the economy and raising questions about what Joe Biden [5:23] would do and what he would have done differently on that measure. And then on coronavirus, this is where [5:28] the Biden campaign really wants to focus tonight, making this race a referendum on the president's [5:34] handling of the pandemic and also saying what he would have done differently if he were in charge. [5:40] So those are two measures that are top of mind for voters and two issues that we'll see discussed [5:46] at length in this debate. [5:49] Well, Nicole, we know the president and Joe Biden have each been preparing in different ways for this [5:53] debate, and we've seen them both on the debate stage before. President Trump last in 2016, [5:59] and Joe Biden as recently as March. How might they approach this debate? [6:04] Well, I think in one of two ways or a combination of both. I think if they stick to the script, [6:11] I think you will hear, for instance, the president make the argument of, I've been doing more in 47 [6:18] months than Joe Biden has in 47 years. That's been the argument he's been making most recently on the [6:24] campaign trail. And so I think you will hear that thread through any number of topics, whether it is [6:30] the pandemic, the economy, race, law and order, you know, even with his Supreme Court nominee. [6:36] So that's one possibility. And of course, Biden, the mantra he's been sounding as of late has been [6:44] the Scranton versus Park Avenue approach. And so with the story that broke a couple of days ago on [6:50] the president's taxes, you know, this allows him to hammer that message home as well, that he's the [6:55] one looking out for the little guy, you know, the average worker out there while the president has, [7:01] you know, kind of lived the high life his whole life. And so I think, again, you will hear the [7:06] former vice president make that argument across all the topics tonight. If they go off script, [7:13] all bets are off. I mean, I think that's really certainly one thing I'll be watching for. But [7:18] I think what a lot of people will be watching for, especially those who said they're looking for [7:22] the entertainment value here. You know, how will the gloves come off? You know, will these guys [7:28] go after each other? If you have followed the president and watched his campaign rallies, [7:32] he can go in on Joe Biden. Joe Biden equally can hit back. And we even heard the vice president [7:38] just tonight at a debate watch party saying that the president is going to bring the fight to Joe [7:44] Biden tonight. So to the extent that this does become a knockout, drag out fight, that is certainly [7:50] something that I think many will be watching for as well. So on script, off script, we'll just have [7:58] to see or a combination of both, like I said. Right. Something like that. All right. Caitlin [8:04] Huey Burns and Nicole Killian, great to have you both. Thank you. As we mentioned, the president has [8:10] not been on a debate stage since 2016. Back then, Philippe Reines played the role of then Republican [8:16] nominee Donald Trump for Hillary Clinton's debate prep. Here's some of what they had to prepare for. [8:22] A good job in the 1990s. I think a lot about what worked and how we can make it work again. [8:28] Well, he approved new jobs, a balanced budget, which is the single worst trade deal ever approved [8:33] in this country. Incomes went up for everybody. Just join, join the debate by saying more crazy [8:38] things. Now, let me say there's nothing crazy about not letting our companies bring their money [8:45] back into this. This is Secretary Clinton's two minutes, please. Yeah, well, let's start the clock [8:50] again, Lester. Starting when I was a senator from New York. But that's not the point here. [8:55] Why didn't you do it? Why didn't you do it? Because I was a senator with a Republican president. [8:59] Oh, really? I will be the president. You could have done it. If you were an effective senator, [9:04] you could have done it. If you were an effective senator, you could have done it. But you were [9:09] not an effective... She's allowed her to respond. She didn't interrupt you. That's part of my commitment [9:13] to raise taxes on the wealthy. My Social Security payroll contribution will go up, as will Donald's, [9:22] assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it. But what we want to do is to replenish the [9:26] Social Security trust fund. Such a nasty woman. And former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State [9:33] and Senior Advisor to Hillary Clinton, Philippe Reines, joins me now. Philippe, welcome. So you [9:40] said that the key to beating President Trump in a debate is to, quote, get out of his way. What did [9:46] you mean by that? First, I want to thank you for that just lovely walk down memory lane. [9:53] How'd you feel about that, Philippe? I, you know, parts of it I want to laugh, [9:58] parts of it I want to cry. I'll probably do it after we hung up. Oh, hang up. What I mean by that [10:03] is, look, Donald, there is one Donald Trump. People argue, which Donald Trump are we going to see? [10:08] There's one. You see him, you cover the White House. You see what's happening every single day. [10:14] We see it three to five times a week for the last six months. That guy is showing up tonight. There's [10:18] no other guy. So that guy is not doing well. That guy, he's got his 40 percent, but the rest of America [10:26] is not so keen on the bluster, on the bombast, on the line. Now, it makes good TV. And if Donald [10:34] Trump's strategy is to really take advantage of the biggest audience he's going to have this campaign, [10:40] then, yeah, he can enjoy himself. And maybe even some people will say he won the debate, [10:45] but he's losing the race. And if his goal were to come into this debate and try to do some good for [10:51] himself, he would take a different approach. But as a human being, he's not capable of doing it. [10:56] So everyone's focused on how is Joe Biden going to react? What is Joe Biden going to say? Is he [11:00] going to fact check him? Is he going to keep his cool? He's going to lose his cool? The truth of the [11:04] matter is, if I were Joe Biden, and I would say, hi, Chris Wallace, the moderator, thank you for [11:10] being here tonight. And thank you to Case University for hosting us. And with that, I yield my 45 minutes [11:17] to Donald Trump. Because the guy never misses an opportunity and miss an opportunity. And [11:24] while four years ago, it was hard to watch about those clips, was that you do see how within the [11:30] interrupting and the histrionics, he's delivering message, whether it was job creation or trade, [11:36] and he was getting in his knocks on her. Now he doesn't do that. Now when he opens his mouth, [11:42] it's a list of grievances about how slippery ramps are, and about how perfect his transcripts are. [11:48] And angry Democrats. And it's one thing if he stands in the Rose Garden, and he has all the [11:53] time in the world to go off for 50 minutes and throw in some stuff about Joe Biden. He's got two [11:58] or three minutes at a shot tonight. If he wants to send, each of those men have to decide, do I want [12:03] to spend 90 minutes quarreling with the other guy? Or do I want to spend 90 minutes talking to the [12:08] audience? It's clear what choice Biden, uh, Trump is going to make. It's clear that Joe Biden knows the [12:14] more he talks to the audience, the better he is. That doesn't mean he's gonna stand there and take [12:19] whatever comes at him. And by the way, if he just stood there and took it, a lot of people would say, [12:25] including me, I don't want to see someone who can't defend themselves, who can't be strong in the face [12:30] of being bullied. So Joe Biden has a hard job. But Donald Trump has a bigger task. And I'm pretty [12:39] confident that he's going to blow it. And even the last thing I'll say is, in the 1% chance that [12:45] he took this mythical debate drug himself, and he were to give a good performance and say, [12:50] everyone should wear masks, and we're going to test more, it'll stop tomorrow. He'll undo anything he [12:56] does. So that guy's going to show up and that guy's losing. And he, that guy is counting on Joe [13:02] Biden to, I don't know, have some kind of event, health event that disqualifies himself. I mean, [13:08] it's a pretty passive plan. You know, Philippe, I want to ask you a question having to do with [13:15] gender, because you raised this notion of Donald Trump interrupting Secretary Clinton during the [13:21] debate. Let's go ahead and, at the risk of alienating you, Philippe, we're going to play for some of [13:26] our viewers here who may have missed our montage off the top. Just a little bit of what we saw in [13:31] 2016. Let's listen. It's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is [13:39] not in charge of the law in our country. Because you'd be in jail. Secretary Clinton. [13:49] You know, Philippe, I'm not even sure what the question is. I think I start with this idea. [13:53] Do you think there is a difference in the expectation of a male candidate versus a female [14:01] candidate when it comes to engaging in these kinds of verbal confrontations in a place like a general [14:09] election debate? There's absolutely no doubt. I mean, no one tonight is going to look at Joe Biden [14:16] and say, oh, he interrupted Donald Trump. How, you know, testy of him or how touchy of him. [14:24] Hillary Clinton was the first major party nominee. And without going down this path too much, [14:30] we look at these debates and we look at moments like these and we try to envision a president. [14:36] We only had 45 men who have been, 44 men who have been president. So it's hard. It's impossible to [14:44] imagine a woman. Now, Hillary herself has written in that book, in that moment later on, where he's [14:50] stalking her, that I want to turn around and say, back off the creep. You know what? The idea that [14:55] everyone would applaud and think that's so great, it would have been good TV. And in hindsight, [14:59] I wish she had done it. But we'd also be talking about, does she have the temperaments? She'd lose [15:04] her cool? Did she, you know, is she two words that I won't say on, you know, family-friendly mediums? [15:11] And Joe Biden doesn't have to worry about that. So does that give Joe Biden an advantage? Sorry, [15:15] Philippe, I don't mean to interrupt, but does that mean Joe Biden has an advantage that Hillary [15:19] Clinton didn't? It is. I mean, that one clip, he said she is such a nasty woman. You know, [15:30] we're all sitting here like, oh yeah, I remember that moment. That's just another day in our life. [15:34] He wouldn't have said that. He's not going to say, he might say to Chris Wallace, that's such a nasty [15:39] question. Or that is such a nasty person. And maybe he says to Joe Biden, you're so nasty. But [15:44] it's different. When he said, you know what he won't say, which he said to Hillary, she doesn't [15:51] have that presidential look. And I don't think he was talking about her tie or lack of. He was saying [15:57] she's a woman, that she's shorter, she can't bench press as much. I mean, I don't even know what [16:04] he's saying, but you know it when you hear it and knows it's not something that Joe Biden has to [16:09] deal with. And unfortunately, that's probably going to read down to his benefit. I mean, Hillary [16:15] has, I love her to death and I've worked for her and known her since 2002, but she has an incredibly [16:21] annoying habit of being right about four or five years too early. Well, let me ask you this. If [16:29] you're Joe Biden, do you see these debates more as an opportunity or a potential liability, [16:36] given what we've seen so far with respect to the trajectory of this contest? [16:42] Now, I would be excited if I'm, first of all, as a human, these people get nervous too. And, [16:47] you know, he spent some time figuring out what kind of tie he should wear. But if I were Joe Biden, [16:52] he knows he's ready. It might get ugly. He'll have good moments. He'll have bad moments. But he knows [16:59] that this is the best opportunity to talk to audiences that might not ever see. I mean, [17:05] this is just a lot of people. You're going to have people tonight that are tuning in to Fox to watch [17:10] Tucker who are going to say, oh, I'm bumping into a debate. And they're going to see them for 90 [17:16] minutes and they're going to see them without a filter. Now, they might be yelling and talking [17:20] over each other, but it's not until later at night that the likes of Sean Hannity gets their hands on [17:26] these clips and starts to say other things. And that does not benefit Donald Trump. Donald Trump [17:33] needs that filter. He needs the artificial, the guy, you know, Brit Hume on Fox a little [17:40] while ago said that he's convinced that Joe Biden is senile. You know what the problem is? Joe Biden's [17:45] not senile. And we're all about to see that he's not senile. And yes, these are opportunities. And [17:50] in very simple terms, the debate is a huge moment, but it's just another moment. His convention speech [17:57] was a moment. His being yesterday at a rally is a moment. His giving a speech next week is a moment. [18:03] The campaign is a totality of moments. And Joe Biden's have been consistent. What Joe Biden says [18:09] tonight is what he's going to say tomorrow is what he said last month. Donald, and that's, [18:14] and that seems to be working with enough people to put him in office, hopefully. Donald Trump, [18:21] what he says tonight, some of it will be the same, but he's so proud of the fact that he's got new [18:25] lines of attack on Joe Biden. I'm sorry, if it's 35 days left and you're still trying to figure out [18:31] what to say, then you aren't just blowing a big moment. You've been blowing every moment until now. [18:37] All right. Well, we are just minutes away. Philippe Reines. Philippe, thank you very much [18:44] for joining us. No, thank you for having me. Still to come, we'll talk President Trump's strategy [18:52] for tonight with RNC's senior advisor for data, Katie Walsh-Shields. Stay with us. You're streaming [18:58] red and blue. Maybe he doesn't want the American people, all of you watching tonight, [19:11] to know that he's paid nothing in federal taxes because the only years that anybody's ever seen [19:17] were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get [19:22] a casino license and they showed he didn't pay any federal income tax. So that makes me smart. [19:28] He made zero. That means zero for troops, zero for vets, zero for schools or health. And I think [19:37] probably he's not all that enthusiastic about having the rest of our country see what the real [19:45] reasons are. Go to the ends of the earth. Right now. We got something crazy. Boom. And reach for the [20:02] stars. Here we are. Tom. Yes, it's my comeback. Hey, this is pretty fun. But wait, there's more. [20:09] Experience thought-provoking. Welcome to the idea of being a human being. Innovative. And truly original [20:15] reporting. Look through a telescope and go, wow. Because there's always something new under the sun [20:20] on CBS Sunday morning. COVID has taken the lives of tens of thousands of Americans. [20:30] Rural areas like this here on Navajo Nation are especially hit hard. 15 to 30 percent of our Navajo [20:37] citizens don't have running water. In any indigenous reservation, there is a shortage of physicians. [20:43] Native Americans are amongst the most vulnerable and hardest hit by COVID. Yeah. The more we lose our [20:48] elders to COVID-19, the more we lose our language and our way of life. We need to bring awareness to the [20:56] attention of Washington, D.C. and United States citizens that there is a need to focus on the [21:02] first citizens of this country. In 60 years, we went from about 100,000 factory workers to probably about [21:16] 7,000. Off in the distance, you can see some factories that are still humming. Most of them are just kind of [21:24] abandoned. The restaurant industry right now is one of the largest and fastest growing industries in [21:31] America. And yet it continues to be the absolute lowest paying employer in the United States. [21:38] Barely anybody's making enough to live. You're donating plasma to get by. [21:45] It's literally a slave wage. I don't remember growing up like this. My mom didn't have to go to food [21:49] banks. It's pretty sad. Even really young kids are feeling what's going on right now. How should parents [22:01] be talking to them about this whole question of racial justice? How do we embrace this moment and [22:06] turn it into real change? What we really must focus on is moving from protesting to policy. [22:13] Join Gayle, Anthony, and Tony on CBS This Morning. [22:20] CBS and Los Angeles. Get local news, breaking news, anytime, anywhere. [22:26] It's easy to find us, and it's free. Download the CBS News app on your favorite devices. [22:31] CBS and Los Angeles. Streaming 24-7. [22:35] You can watch CBS and 24-7. [22:37] I've got an amazing story to share with you. [22:40] I understand you have some breaking news. [22:43] How does it all play out? [22:45] It's quite an adventure here at CBS and it's been a day. [22:49] We're just minutes away from the start of the first debate between President Trump and Joe Biden. [23:03] Mr. Trump is the first incumbent in 28 years to enter the first debate trailing in national polls. [23:08] Katie Walsh-Shields joins me now. She is a senior advisor for data at the Republican National [23:15] Committee and former chief of staff at the RNC. Welcome to you, Katie. Thanks for joining us. [23:22] So both President Trump and Joe Biden are trying to win over the small sliver of undecided voters. [23:28] What role does a debate play in attracting those voters? [23:31] Well, thanks for having me. I think the debate plays an important role in that it'll be the [23:37] first time that voters will see the president and former Vice President Biden on the same stage [23:43] as a contrast. And I think that's a big deal. We really haven't seen [23:47] former Vice President Biden campaign very much. We haven't seen him on the trail. When we have, [23:52] he's had a certain level of gaffes. And so I think this will be the first time that the voters [23:56] can see them side by side. I think that that'll be a big opportunity for, as you mentioned, [24:00] the small sliver of voters. But still, I think it'll make a difference. [24:04] All right. We're going to let our audience know. On the left of our screen there, [24:08] we are looking at live pictures, or we were, of Case Western Reserve University, of course, [24:13] where that debate is set to get underway. Minutes from now. So, [24:16] minutes from now. So we know the basic topics for tonight, Katie. Which ones do you [24:21] think the president could use to his advantage the most out of the list? [24:25] Well, I think the economy is clearly the president's strong suit. I think he'll talk a [24:31] lot about the 10.6 million new jobs he's created in the last four months since we've kind of reopened, [24:38] post shutdown with coronavirus. And I think that'll be something he'll come back to over and over [24:42] again. There are just so many things that are tied to getting people back to work, including opening [24:48] schools, getting kids back in school. A lot of people get their health care from their work, [24:52] from their jobs. And so you'll see the president come back over and over. And I believe [24:56] how important it is to keep the economy open, how vital it is to make sure that we're getting people [25:01] back to work. And contrasting that with Joe Biden, who has directly said he would be for another [25:07] shutdown if we had an outbreak. Yeah, I do want to ask you more about the pandemic, [25:13] because the president has made a number of contradictory statements about the coronavirus pandemic. [25:19] We know from polling that many people are skeptical about a vaccine. The president insists that one [25:25] will be ready within weeks. Medical experts, though, who work for him say that's not true. [25:31] And I wonder what you think the president's approach should be in talking about this, [25:37] given the fact that we know there are Americans who look at this notion of when a vaccine comes out, [25:44] they know they feel as though they won't necessarily be in line first to get it, because there has been [25:51] a lot of political kind of conversation surrounding the push for this vaccine. [25:59] I think the Democrats have actually made an even bigger political statement on this. You've seen [26:04] our student Senator Harris come out and say she actually wouldn't take the vaccine, even if it came out. [26:10] And I think that confuses the American public. And we'll continue to have this conversation [26:14] between the president, who I think has been incredibly helpful in terms of his operation [26:20] warp speed and taking regulation out of the drug approval process to try and get a drug to market [26:25] faster. I think once we have a vaccine, it will come in record time. And I think you will see the [26:32] Democrats, Vice President Biden and Senator Harris, constantly skeptical of it. And I think the American [26:37] public will see through that, because the American public says, look, this vaccine should not be [26:41] political. We need to protect our seniors. We need to get people back to work. We need to protect our [26:46] vulnerable individuals as it relates to the COVID virus. And so I think they will kind of see through [26:52] that ploy. But I think the president should be commended for his work on Operation Warp Speed. [26:57] All right. We just saw moments ago the various family members from both candidates entering the debate [27:05] hall. There you see the moderator, Fox News, Chris Wallace, addressing the audience now. But certainly in [27:11] a sign of these COVID-19 times, you saw those family members were all wearing masks and their chairs [27:19] appeared to be socially distant. I do also want to ask you, Katie, about health care. When are we going to [27:25] see specifics on the president's health care plan? And what are your thoughts about it getting past [27:31] a Democratic-controlled Congress? I don't think we've seen many things get through in the last [27:39] four years, or excuse me, the last two years with the Democrat-controlled House. So I'm not terribly [27:44] optimistic that anything would get passed under with the Democrat-controlled House. But I do think [27:49] you'll see the president talk about covering pre-existing conditions, about lowering prescription drug [27:54] prices. He's been really tough on the pharmaceutical companies, which is not historically a position [27:59] that Republicans have taken. And so I think it is really something that he will continue to talk [28:03] to seniors about. It's a main issue to seniors over and over again when you look at polling and [28:07] prescription drug prices. And so I think you'll see the president continue to talk about the elements [28:13] of a health care plan that he thinks are important. But I don't think there's much chance that anything [28:17] gets through the Democrat-controlled House. So we shouldn't expect a sort of comprehensive plan, [28:24] more piecemeal kind of elements, as you say, of what he would like to see in health care. [28:30] Well, I'm sure the White House may put out a policy paper that kind of outlines what he would [28:34] like to see in a bill. But I think, you know, the president will, I think, understand that getting [28:41] something through a Democrat-controlled House is very unlikely. And so he'll continue to put his [28:45] benchmarks out and say, these are the things that I would want in a health care bill. If we're going [28:49] to talk about what is important with health care in the American public, this is what I want to see. [28:53] I think he'll maybe put opposition papers. I think you'll see the president communicate [28:57] that directly, as he often does with American people. But I don't think you'll see any movement [29:01] on it. And so I think you'll continue to see Democrats, Republicans kind of going back and [29:05] forth on what they think is important. But I don't know that we'll see an actual bill to speak of. [29:09] All right, Katie Walsh-Shields. Katie, thanks very much for your time. [29:14] Thanks for having me. [29:16] And the first debate between President Trump and Joe Biden is about to get started. [29:24] Let's go to our CBS News primetime special. [29:27] We'll do it together. Former Vice President Joe Biden. [29:37] This is the most important election in the history of our country. [29:40] President Donald Trump. Maybe he's going to be great at the debate. You know, [29:44] he's been doing it for 47 years. The first presidential debate. [29:49] Have you begun to prepare for debates against President Trump? I can hardly wait. [29:53] Good evening. I'm Nora O'Donnell with Gail King and John Dickerson in the nation's [30:11] Capitol. And we are just moments away from the first presidential debate between President [30:16] Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. After months of lobbying long-distance attacks, [30:21] aides for both candidates say tonight the gloves and the masks will come off. The two men arrived at [30:27] the debate hall at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland a short time ago. They are not expected [30:32] to shake hands because of the coronavirus pandemic. And let's not forget, as we come on the air tonight, [30:37] this virus has killed more than 205,000 Americans. This pandemic has led the U.S. into its worst [30:44] economic contraction since the Great Depression. More than 26 million Americans are claiming [30:49] unemployment benefits and too late developments have thrown a lit match into an already volatile race. [30:55] The Republicans' effort to quickly replace, rather, the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg with conservative [31:00] judge Amy Coney Barrett and the latest revelations about President Trump's taxes. [31:06] So the stage is set for this first showdown. There will be no opening statements. Chris Wallace of [31:12] Fox News will be asking the questions. He was chosen by the Presidential Debate Commission, [31:17] and he's identified six main topics. The Trump and Biden records, the Supreme Court, COVID-19, [31:24] the economy, race and violence in cities, and the integrity of the election. [31:30] It is going to be quite a night ahead. Let's bring in CBS's Ben Tracy at the White House. And Ben, [31:34] what are you hearing from the Trump campaign? Well, Nora, we're hearing that President Trump [31:38] is ready to joust and that he feels that Joe Biden's family and his cognitive abilities are fair game in [31:44] this debate. Now, the president is expecting the first question out of the gate will be about his taxes, [31:48] these revelations that he basically did not pay any federal income tax for years. We're also told by [31:53] the campaign is they're trying to play down the president's preparation for this debate [31:57] that he actually has been practicing, and they say he's ready for any question that may come his way. [32:02] Ben Tracy, let's turn now to CBS's Ed O'Keefe. He is in the debate hall where the anticipation [32:07] is building. Ed? Nora, good evening. Once they get rocking and rolling here in Cleveland tonight, [32:13] expect Biden to focus on two key things, the president's taxes and his handling of the coronavirus [32:18] pandemic and the economic downturn. His aides believe if he keeps focused on those two issues, [32:22] he can maintain his lead in battleground states. One thing we shouldn't expect Biden to do tonight [32:27] is serve as a real-time fact checker. He'd suggested earlier this month that's what he wanted to do. [32:32] His aides now say he'll instead try speaking directly to the American people. Here in the [32:36] room tonight, we count about 107 invited guests. That's down from the usual 900 who observe these [32:42] debates in person. Nora? Ed O'Keefe, thank you. And John, does Trump know that he has to change the [32:49] trajectory of this race as it stands now? Absolutely. You can hear Ben Tracy say it, [32:52] which is he's going to be going at all over the place because he wants to shake things up. That's [32:57] always been his way. The debate is about to begin. Here now, [33:00] the moderator, Chris Wallace. Good evening from the health education campus [33:21] of Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic. I'm Chris Wallace of Fox News, [33:27] and I welcome you to the first of the 2020 presidential debates between President Donald J. Trump [33:33] and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. [33:41] The commission has designed the format, six roughly 15-minute segments, with two-minute answers from [33:47] each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. [33:53] Both campaigns have agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics and the questions in [34:00] each topic, I can assure you none of the questions has been shared with the commission or the two [34:07] candidates. This debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Cleveland [34:13] Clinic, which is serving as the health security advisor to the commission for all four debates. [34:19] As a precaution, both campaigns have agreed the candidates will not shake hands at the beginning [34:25] of tonight's debate. The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, [34:31] no boos or other interruptions, so we, and more importantly you, can focus on what the candidates [34:37] have to say. No noise except right now, as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, [34:44] and the Democratic nominee, Vice President Biden. Gentlemen, a lot of people have been waiting for [35:13] this night, so let's get going. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump, you nominated [35:19] Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the court. You say the [35:27] Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate's to consider a nominee to the court. [35:34] Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the president and Republicans [35:39] to jam through on an appointment and what you call an abuse of power. My first question to both of you [35:46] tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong, and where do you think [35:53] a Justice Barrett would take the court? President Trump, in this first segment, you go first, two minutes. [36:00] Thank you very much, Chris. I will tell you very simply, we won the election. Elections have [36:05] consequences. We have the Senate. We have the White House. And we have a phenomenal nominee, [36:12] respected by all, top, top academic, good in every way, good in every way. In fact, some of her biggest [36:21] endorsers are very liberal people from Notre Dame and other places. So I think she's going to be [36:26] fantastic. We have plenty of time, even if we did it after the election itself. I have a lot of time after [36:32] the election, as you know. So I think that she will be outstanding. She's going to be [36:38] as good as anybody that has served on that court. We really feel that. We have a professor at Notre [36:43] Dame, highly respected by all. She's the single greatest student he's ever had. He's been a professor [36:49] for a long time at a great school. And we just, we won the election, and therefore we have the right [36:55] to choose her. And very few people knowingly would say otherwise. And by the way, the Democrats, [37:01] they wouldn't even think about not doing it. If they had, the only difference is they're trying to [37:04] do it faster. There's no way they would give it up. They had Merritt Garland, but the problem is [37:10] they didn't have the election. So they were stopped. And probably that would happen in reverse also. [37:16] Definitely would happen in reverse. So we won the election, and we have the right to do it, Chris. [37:20] President Trump, thank you. Same question to you, Vice President Biden. You have two minutes. [37:26] Well, first of all, um, thank you for doing this and looking forward to this, Mr. President. [37:32] Thank you, Joe. I, uh, the American people have a right to have a say in who the Supreme [37:38] Court nominee is. And that say occurs when they vote for a United States senators and when they vote [37:44] for the president of the United States. They're not going to get that chance now because we're in [37:49] the middle of an election already. The election has already started. Tens of thousands of people have [37:55] already voted. And so the thing that should happen is we should wait. We should wait and see what the [38:01] outcome of this election is, because that's the only way the American people get to express [38:05] their view is by who they elect as president and who they elect as vice president. Now, [38:11] what's at stake here is the president's made it clear he wants to get rid of the affordable [38:15] care act. He's been running on that. He ran on that. And he's been governing on that. He's in the [38:21] Supreme Court right now trying to get rid of, uh, the, uh, the affordable care act, [38:26] which, uh, will strip 20 million people from having insurance, health insurance now if, if they, [38:33] if it goes into court. And, and, uh, the justice and I have nothing. I'm not opposed to the justice. [38:39] She seems like a very fine person, but she's written before she went on the bench, which is her right, [38:44] that she thinks that the affordable care act is not constitutional. The other thing that's on the [38:50] court. And if, and if it struck down, what happens? Women's rights are fundamentally changed. [38:55] Once again, a woman could be helped pay more money because she has a preexisting condition of [39:00] pregnancy. We were able to, they were able to charge a woman more for the same exact procedure a [39:05] man did, gets. And that ended when we in fact passed the affordable care act. And there's a hundred [39:12] million people have preexisting conditions and they'll be taken away as well. Those preexisting [39:18] conditions, the insurance companies are going to love this. And so it's just not appropriate [39:22] to do this before this election. If he wins the election and the Senate is Democrat or Republican, [39:29] then he goes forward. If not, we should wait until February. All right. [39:32] There aren't a hundred million people with preexisting conditions. As far as the say is concerned, [39:37] the people already had their say. They, okay, Justice Ginsburg said very powerfully, very strongly, [39:44] at some point, 10 years ago or so, she said a president and the Senate is elected for a period [39:52] of time. But a president is elected for four years. We're not elected for three years. I'm not elected [39:56] for three years. So we have the Senate, we have a president. [39:59] He's elected to the next election. [40:00] During that period of time, during that period of time, we have an opening. I'm not elected for [40:06] three years. I'm elected for four years. And the hundred million people, Joe, the hundred million [40:11] people is totally wrong. I don't know where you got that number. The bigger problem that you have [40:16] is that you're going to extinguish 180 million people with their private health care that they're [40:22] very happy with. That's simply not true. Well, you're certainly going to socialists. [40:25] You're going to socialist medicine. We're now into, gentlemen, [40:28] we're now into open discussion. Open discussion. Open discussion. Yes, I agree. Go ahead, Vice President. [40:32] Number one, he knows that what I proposed. What I proposed is that we expand Obamacare [40:40] and we increase it. We do not wipe any. And one of the big debates we had with 23 [40:46] of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that I won were saying that Biden wanted to [40:51] allow people to have private insurance still. They can. They do. They will under my proposal. [40:56] It's not what you've said and it's not what your party has said. That is simply a lie. [41:00] Your party doesn't say it. Your party wants to go socialist medicine. My party is me. [41:04] And socialist health care. Right now, I am the Democratic Party. [41:06] And they're going to dominate you, Joe. You know that. [41:07] I am the Democratic Party right now. The platform of the Democratic Party is what I, [41:13] in fact, approved of. What I approved of. Now, here's the deal. The deal is that [41:19] it's going to wipe out pre-existing conditions. And by the way, the 20, the 200 million, [41:24] the 200,000 people that have died on his watch, how many of those have survived? Well, there's 7 million [41:31] people that contracted COVID. What does it mean for them going forward if you strike down [41:36] the Affordable Care Act? Joe, you've had 308,000 [41:40] military people dying because you couldn't provide them proper health care in the military. [41:44] So don't tell me about this. I'm happy to talk about this. [41:46] And if you were here, it wouldn't be 200, it would be 2 million people because you were very late [41:51] on the draw. You didn't want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. You didn't want me to ban [41:56] it. All right, gentlemen. You would have been much later, Joe. Much later. [42:02] Mr. President. Mr. President. You're talking about 2 million people. [42:04] Mr. President, as a moderator, we are going to talk about COVID in the next segment, but go ahead. [42:09] Well, let me finish. The point is that the president also is opposed to Roe v. Wade. [42:16] That's on the ballot as well in the court, in the court. And so that's also at stake right now. [42:22] And so the election is all ready to be done. You don't know it's on the ballot. Why is it in the [42:25] ballot? It's not in the ballot. It's on the ballot in the court. I don't think so. In the court. [42:32] There's nothing happening there. And you don't know her view on Roe v. Wade. You don't know her view. [42:39] Well, all right. All right. Let's talk. We've got a lot to unpack here, gentlemen. We've got a lot [42:44] of time. On health care. And then we'll come back to Roe v. Wade. All right. Mr. President, [42:50] the Supreme Court will hear a case a week after the election in which the Trump administration, [42:57] along with 18 state attorneys general, are seeking to overturn Obamacare, to end Obamacare. [43:04] You have spent the last— Because they want to give good health care. [43:07] If I may ask my question, sir. Good health care. [43:10] Over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare, [43:15] but you have never in these four years come up with a plan, [43:19] a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare. Of course I have. [43:24] Well, I'll give you an opportunity. Excuse me. I got rid of the individual mandate, [43:28] which was a big chunk of Obamacare. That is not a comprehensive plan. [43:30] That is absolutely a big thing. That was the worst part of Obamacare. [43:34] I didn't ask you, sir. You're debating him, not me. [43:36] Let me ask my question. Well, I'll ask Joe. [43:38] The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare. [43:42] I got rid of it. I'd like you to— Mr. President, I'd like you to— [43:43] And we will protect people— Mr. President, I'm the moderator of this debate, [43:46] and I would like you to let me ask my question, and then you can answer your question. [43:50] Go ahead, Trent. You, in the course of these four years, [43:53] have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare. And just this last Thursday, [44:01] you signed a largely symbolic executive order to protect people with pre-existing conditions [44:08] five days before this debate. So my question, sir, is what is the Trump healthcare plan? [44:14] All right. Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you, not him, but that's okay. [44:17] I'm not surprised. Let me just tell you something. There's nothing symbolic. I'm cutting drug prices. [44:22] I'm going with favored nations, which no president has the courage to do because you're going against [44:27] big pharma. Drug prices will be coming down 80 or 90 percent. You could have done it during your 47-year [44:33] period in government, but you didn't do it. Nobody's done it. So we're cutting healthcare. [44:38] All of the things that we've done— [44:40] He has not cut healthcare. [44:41] I'll give you an example. Insulin. It's going to—it was destroying families, [44:45] destroying people, the cost. I'm getting it for so cheap. It's like water, you want to know the truth. [44:50] So cheap. Take a look at all of the drugs that—what we're doing, prescription drug prices. [44:55] We're going to allow our governors now to go to other countries to buy drugs, [44:59] because they pay just a tiny fraction. [45:01] As I say, this is open discussion. [45:02] No, but this is big—this is big stuff. [45:04] Sir, you'll be happy. I'm about to pick up on one of your points [45:08] to ask the vice president, which is he points out that you would like to add a public option [45:14] to Obamacare. Yes. [45:15] The argument that he makes and other Republicans make is that that is going to end private [45:21] insurance— It is not. [45:22] If I can ask you the question. It will end— [45:26] It's not what your party says, by the way. [45:27] It will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health care. [45:31] It does not. It's only for those people who are so poor, they qualify for Medicaid. [45:36] They can get that free in most states, except governors who want to deny people who are poor, [45:42] Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicare would—excuse me, Medicaid would automatically [45:48] be enrolled in the public option. The vast majority of the American people would still [45:53] not be in that option, number one. [45:56] Joe, you agreed with Bernie Sanders, he's far left, on the manifesto, we call it, [46:01] and that gives you socialized medicine. [46:03] Look, hey, I'm not going to listen to him. [46:05] The fact of the matter is, I beat Bernie Sanders. [46:08] Not by much. [46:08] I beat him a whole hell of a lot. I'm here standing facing you, old buddy. [46:12] Pocahontas would have left two days earlier. You would have lost every primary on Super [46:16] Tuesday. You got very lucky. [46:18] Look, here's the deal. I got very lucky. I'm going to get very lucky tonight, as well. [46:22] And tonight, I'm going to make sure, because— [46:24] With what? [46:24] Here's the deal. Here's the deal. The fact is that everything he's saying so far is simply a lie. [46:29] I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar. [46:32] But you agree. [46:33] I just want to make sure— [46:34] Joe, you're the liar now. [46:35] I want to make sure— [46:36] Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir? [46:42] No, he doesn't know how to do that. He has— [46:44] You'd be surprised. [46:45] You picked the wrong guy, the wrong night at the wrong time. [46:49] Listen, you agreed with Bernie Sanders. [46:51] The whole idea— [46:52] Let him— [46:53] There is no manifesto, number one. [46:55] Please let him speak, Mr. President. [46:56] Number two. [46:56] He just lost the left. [46:58] Number two. [46:58] You just lost the left. You agreed with Bernie Sanders on a plan that's absolutely agreed to— [47:06] Folks, do you have any idea what this clown's doing? [47:08] They call it Medicare, Socialized Medicine. [47:11] Mr. President. [47:12] I'll tell you what. He is not for any help for people needing health care. [47:18] Who is it? [47:19] Bernie? [47:19] Because he, in fact, already has cost 10 million people their health care that they [47:25] had from their employers because of his recession. Number one. Number two, there are 20 million [47:31] people getting health care through Obamacare now that he wants to take it away. He won't ever [47:36] look you in the eye and say that's what he wants to do. Take it away. [47:39] No, I want to give him better health care at a much lower price because Obamacare is no good. [47:43] He doesn't know how. He doesn't know how to do that. [47:45] I've already fixed it. [47:46] He has never offered a plan. [47:47] I've already fixed it to an extent. [47:48] He has never done a single thing. [47:50] Obamacare, as you might know, but probably don't— [47:51] But, gentlemen, if you realize if you're both speaking at the same time, let the president— [47:56] Go ahead, sir. [47:57] Obamacare is no good. We made it better. And I had a choice to make very early on, [48:01] we took away the individual mandate. We guaranteed pre-existing conditions, [48:05] but took away the individual mandate. Listen, this is the way it is. And that destroyed— [48:11] They shouldn't even call it Obamacare. Then I had a choice to make. [48:15] Do I let my people run it really well or badly? If I run it badly, they'll probably blame him, [48:20] but they'll blame me. But more importantly, I want to help people. Okay? I said, [48:24] you got to run it so well. And I just had a meeting with them. They said, [48:27] the problem is, no matter how well you run Obamacare, it's a disaster. It's too expensive. [48:33] I got it. Premiums are too high. And it doesn't work. [48:35] That's what these people said. [48:37] So we do want to get rid of it. Chris, we want to get rid of it. [48:40] I understand it, sir, but I have to give you roughly equal time. [48:43] Good. [48:43] Please let the vice president talk. [48:45] Good. [48:46] He has no plan for health care. [48:48] Of course we do. [48:49] He sends— [48:50] Please. [48:51] He sends out wishful thinking. He has executive orders that have no power. [48:56] He hasn't lowered drug costs for anybody. He's been promising a health care plan [49:00] since he got elected. He has none. Like almost everything else he talks about. [49:05] He does not have a plan. He doesn't have a plan. And the fact is, [49:09] this man doesn't know what he's talking about. [49:11] All right. I have one final question for you. [49:13] Sure. [49:14] Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans— [49:18] we were talking originally about the Supreme Court here— [49:21] if Senate Republicans go ahead and confirm Justice Barrett, [49:26] there has been talk about ending the filibuster [49:29] or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. [49:33] You call this a distraction by the president, but in fact it wasn't brought up by the president. [49:37] It was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in the Congress. [49:41] I'm saying— [49:42] So my question to you is, you have refused in the past to talk about it. [49:45] Are you willing to tell the American people tonight whether or not you will support [49:49] either ending the filibuster or packing the court? [49:53] Whatever position I take in that, that will become the issue. [49:55] The issue is the American people should speak. [49:58] You should go out and vote. You're in voting now. [50:02] Vote and let your senators know how strong you feel. [50:04] Are you going to pack the court? [50:05] Let—vote now. [50:06] Are you going to pack the court? [50:07] Make sure you, in fact, let people know you're senators. [50:09] He doesn't want to answer the question. [50:10] I'm not going to answer the question. [50:12] Why wouldn't you answer that question? [50:12] Because the question is— [50:14] You want to put a lot of new Supreme Court justice, radical left— [50:17] Would you shut up, man? [50:18] Listen, who is on your list, Joe? [50:19] This is so— [50:20] All right. [50:21] Gentlemen, I think— [50:22] This is so unpresidential. [50:23] He's going to pack the court. [50:24] He's not going to give a list. [50:26] We have ended this segment. [50:27] We're going to move on to the second segment. [50:29] That was really a productive segment, wasn't it? [50:33] Keep yapping, man. [50:33] The people understand, Joe. [50:35] 47 years, you've done nothing. [50:37] They understand. [50:38] All right. [50:38] The second subject is COVID-19, which is an awfully serious subject. [50:43] So let's try to be serious about it. [50:46] We have had more than 7 million cases of coronavirus in the United States, [50:52] and more than 200,000 people have died. [50:55] Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years [51:02] before we come back to anything approaching normal. [51:08] My question for both of you is, based on what you have said and done so far, [51:13] and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you [51:20] more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? [51:26] In this case, the question goes to you first, sir. Two minutes uninterrupted. [51:31] Good luck. [51:33] 200,000 dead. [51:35] As you said, over 7 million infected in the United States. [51:38] We, in fact, have 5%, 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. [51:45] 40,000 people a day are contracting COVID. [51:49] In addition to that, about between 750 and 1,000 people a day are dying. [51:54] When he was presented with that number, he said it is what it is. [51:58] Well, it is what it is because you are who you are. [52:02] That's why it is. [52:03] The president has no plan. [52:06] He hasn't laid out anything. [52:08] He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. [52:12] He knew it was a deadly disease. [52:15] What did he do? [52:16] He's on tape is acknowledging he knew it. [52:18] He said he didn't tell us or give people a warning of it because he didn't want to [52:22] panic the American people. [52:24] You don't panic. [52:25] He panicked. [52:26] In addition to that, what did he do? [52:28] He went in and we were insisting that the Chinese, the people we had on the ground in China [52:33] should be able to go to Wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous this was. [52:38] He did not even ask Xi to do that. [52:41] He told us what a great job Xi was doing. [52:44] He said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. [52:49] And what did he do then? [52:50] He then did nothing. [52:52] He waited and waited and waited. [52:54] He still doesn't have a plan. [52:55] I laid out back in March exactly what we should be doing. [53:00] And I laid out again in July what we should be doing. [53:03] We should be providing all the protective gear possible. [53:06] We should be providing the money the house has passed in order to be able to go out and get [53:11] people the help they need to keep their businesses open, open schools that cost a lot of money. [53:16] You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap and get in your golf course and [53:21] go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats and Republicans and fund what needs [53:26] to be done now to save lives. [53:28] So if we would have listened to you— [53:30] Wait, wait, you have two minutes, sir. [53:32] If we would have listened to you, the country would have been left wide open. [53:36] Millions of people would have died, not 200,000, and one person is too much. [53:40] It's China's fault. It should have never happened. [53:42] They stopped it from going in, but it was China's fault. [53:45] And by the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in China. [53:49] You don't know how many people died in Russia. [53:51] You don't know how many people died in India. [53:52] They don't exactly give you a straight count, just so you understand. [53:55] But if you look at what we've done, I closed it, and you said he's xenophobic. [54:00] He's a racist and he's xenophobic because you didn't think I should have closed our country. [54:04] Wait a minute. [54:04] It says two minutes. [54:05] You didn't think we should have closed our country because you thought it was too—it was terrible. [54:10] You wouldn't have closed it for another two months. [54:12] By my doing it early, in fact, Dr. Fauci said President Trump saved thousands of lives. [54:18] Many of you, a Democrat governor, said President Trump did a phenomenal job. [54:23] We worked with the governor. [54:24] Oh, really? [54:24] Go take a look. [54:26] The governor said I did a phenomenal job. [54:28] Most of them said that. [54:30] In fact, people that would not be necessarily on my side said that. [54:35] President Trump did a phenomenal job. [54:37] We did. [54:38] We got the gowns. [54:39] We got the masks. [54:40] We made the ventilators. [54:41] You wouldn't have made ventilators. [54:43] And now we're weeks away from a vaccine. [54:45] We're doing therapeutics already. [54:47] Fewer people are dying when they get sick. [54:50] Far fewer people are dying. [54:51] We've done a great job. [54:53] The only thing I haven't done a good job, and that's because of the fake news. [54:56] No matter what you say to them, they give you a bad press on it. [54:59] It's just fake news. [55:00] They give you good press. [55:01] They give me bad press, because that's the way it is, unfortunately. [55:04] But let me just tell you something. [55:05] I don't care. [55:06] I've gotten used to it. [55:07] But I'll tell you, Joe, you could never have done the job that we did. [55:10] You don't have it in your blood. [55:11] You could have never done that job. [55:13] I know how to do the job. [55:15] I know how to get the job done. [55:16] Well, you didn't do very well in swine flu. [55:18] I know. [55:18] H1N1, you were a disaster. [55:20] Your own chief of staff said you were a disaster. [55:23] 14,000 people died, not 200,000. [55:26] There was no economic recession. [55:27] A far less lethal disease, by the way. [55:30] You made a point. [55:31] Let him answer it. [55:31] And there was no one. [55:32] There was no—we didn't shut down the economy. [55:35] This is his economy that's being—he shut down. [55:38] The reason it's shut down is because, look, you folks at home, how many of you get up this morning [55:42] and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID? [55:47] How many of you were in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak [55:52] to them? [55:52] You had a nurse holding the phone up so you could, in fact, say goodbye? [55:55] You would have lost far more people. [55:56] How many people— [55:57] How many— [55:57] That is— [55:57] Far more people. [55:58] You would have been months late. [56:00] And by the way, your own— [56:01] You were months behind me, Joe. [56:01] Your own—his own CDC director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now [56:07] and the end of the year. [56:08] And he held up. [56:09] He said, if we just wear a mask, we can save half those numbers. [56:12] Just—just a mask. [56:14] And by the way, in terms of the—the whole notion of a vaccine, we're for a vaccine, [56:19] but we—I don't trust him at all, nor do you. [56:21] I know you don't. [56:22] What we trust is a scientist. [56:23] You don't trust Dr. Fauci. [56:25] We trust Dr. Fauci. [56:26] We trust Dr. Fauci. [56:27] We— [56:28] Okay. [56:29] By the way— [56:30] Gentlemen, let me—let me move on to questions about the future, [56:31] because you both have touched on one of the—two of the questions I'm going to ask. [56:36] Focusing on the future first. [56:37] President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of [56:43] your government's own top scientists. [56:44] The week before last, the head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield, [56:49] said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. [56:56] You said that he was confused and mistaken. [56:59] Those were your two words. [57:00] Yeah. [57:00] But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your Operation War Speed, has said exactly the same thing. [57:06] Are they both wrong? [57:07] Well, I've spoken to the companies, and we can have it a lot sooner. [57:10] It's a very political thing, because people like this would rather make it political than save lives. [57:15] God. [57:15] It is a very political thing. [57:17] I've spoken to Pfizer. [57:19] I've spoken to all of the people that you have to speak to. [57:21] We have great Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, and others. [57:25] They can go faster than that by a lot. [57:28] Become very political, because the left, or I don't know if I call them left, I don't know what I call them. [57:31] So you're suggesting that the head of your Operation War Speed, Dr. Slaoui? [57:34] I disagree with him. [57:35] Yeah. [57:35] No, I disagree with both of them. [57:37] And he didn't say that. [57:38] He said it could be there, but it could also be much sooner. [57:40] I had him in my office two days ago. [57:42] He talked about the summer, sir, before it's generally available. [57:44] Just like Dr. Redford. [57:45] He said it's a possibility that we'll have the answer before November 1st. [57:50] It could also be after that. [57:52] I'm talking about when it's generally available. [57:53] Well, we're going to deliver it right away. [57:54] We have the military all set up logistically. [57:57] They're all set up. [57:58] We have our military that delivers soldiers, and they can do 200,000 a day. [58:03] They're going to be delivering the vaccine. [58:04] This is the same man who told you by Easter this would be gone away. [58:09] By the warm weather, it'd be gone. [58:11] Miraculous. [58:11] Like a miracle. [58:12] And by the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm, and that would take care of it. [58:16] This is the same man. [58:17] That was said sarcastically, and you know that. [58:19] I would have said sarcastically. [58:20] And so here's the deal. [58:21] This man is talking about a vaccine. [58:24] Every serious company is talking about maybe having a vaccine done by the end of the year. [58:31] But the distribution of that vaccine will not occur until sometime beginning or the [58:35] middle of next year to get it out if we get the vaccine. [58:39] And pray God we will. [58:40] May God we will. [58:41] Mr. Vice President, I want to pick up, though. [58:43] You'll have the vaccine sooner than that. [58:44] I want to pick up on this question, though. [58:45] You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can't trust President Trump. [58:49] In fact, you said that again tonight. [58:51] Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying the public health experts, quote, [58:57] will be muzzled, will be suppressed. [58:59] Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are [59:05] reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate, Senator Harris, contributing to that fear? [59:10] No more than the question you just asked him. [59:12] You pointed out he puts pressure and disagrees with his own scientists. [59:17] But you're saying Senator Harris is saying you can't trust the scientists. [59:21] Well, no, no, you can't trust the scientists. [59:23] She didn't say that. [59:24] You can't trust the scientists. [59:25] She said the public health experts, quote, will be muzzled, will be suppressed. [59:29] Well, that's what he's going to try to do. [59:31] But there's millions of scientists, there's thousands of scientists out there, [59:35] like here at this great hospital, that don't work for him. [59:38] Their job doesn't depend on him. [59:40] That's not — they're the people — and by the way — [59:43] I spoke to the scientists that are in charge. [59:45] By the way — [59:45] They will have the vaccine very soon. [59:47] Let him put it. [59:48] Do you believe for a moment what he's telling you in light of all the lies he's told you about [59:55] the whole issue relating to COVID? [59:57] He still hasn't even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be [1:00:04] back in February, and he didn't even tell you. [1:00:08] He's on record as saying it. [1:00:10] He panicked or he just looked at the stock market, one of the two, because guess what? [1:00:14] A lot of people died, and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, a lot quicker. [1:00:19] Mr. President? [1:00:21] Did you use the word smart? [1:00:23] So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. [1:00:28] You didn't go to Delaware State. [1:00:29] You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. [1:00:33] Don't ever use the word smart with me. [1:00:35] Don't ever use that word. [1:00:36] Oh, give me a break. [1:00:37] Because you know what? There's nothing smart about you, Joe. 47 years, you've done nothing. [1:00:41] Let's have this debate. [1:00:42] And if you would have had, let me just tell you something, Joe. [1:00:44] No. [1:00:45] If you would have had the charge of what I was put through, I had to close the [1:00:50] greatest economy in the history of our country. And by the way, now it's being built again. [1:00:54] We're going to get to the economy in the next segment, sir. [1:00:56] Okay. [1:00:56] It's going up fast. [1:00:58] Okay. [1:00:59] When it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, [1:01:03] the two of you have taken very different approaches. And this is going to affect [1:01:07] how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. [1:01:13] I want to quickly go through several of those reopenings. [1:01:16] Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump [1:01:20] about reopening the economy and schools. Why, sir? [1:01:24] Because he doesn't have a plan. If I were running, I know what the plan is. [1:01:28] You've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen [1:01:33] with the PPE, as well as with the sanitation they need. You have to provide them— [1:01:37] Tell that to Nancy Pelosi. [1:01:38] Well, he's just shushed for a minute. [1:01:41] Tell it to Nancy Pelosi and Schumer. [1:01:44] By the way, Nancy Pelosi and Schumer, they have a plan. He won't even meet with them. [1:01:50] The Republicans won't meet with him in the Senate. [1:01:51] Okay. [1:01:52] And he sits on his golf course. I mean, literally, think about it. [1:01:56] You probably play more than I do, Joe. [1:01:59] What about this question of reopenings and the fact— [1:02:01] Well, he wants to shut down this country, and I want to keep it open. [1:02:06] And we did a great thing by shutting it down. [1:02:08] Wait a minute, Joe. Let me shut you down for a second, Joe. Just for one second. [1:02:12] We want to—he wants to shut down the country. We just went through it. We had to because we didn't [1:02:17] know anything about the disease. Now we found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and [1:02:23] different problems are very, very vulnerable. We learned a lot. Young children aren't. [1:02:29] Even younger people aren't. We've learned a lot. But he wants to shut it down. [1:02:33] More people will be hurt by continuing. If you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at certain states [1:02:38] that have been shut down, they have Democrat governors all. One of the reasons they're shut [1:02:42] down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election. [1:02:45] I want to move on to another subject. But those states— [1:02:51] Those states are not doing well that are shut down. [1:02:54] I've just got to respond to that. [1:02:55] President Trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease [1:03:02] preventer. And in fact, recently, you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and [1:03:08] touching plates. Are you questioning the efficacy of masks? [1:03:11] No, I think masks are okay. You have to understand, if you look, I mean, I have a mask right here. [1:03:15] I put a mask on, you know, when I think I need it. Tonight, as an example, everybody's had a test, [1:03:21] and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to. But I wear masks when needed. [1:03:26] When needed, I wear masks. Okay, let me ask. [1:03:28] I don't wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking [1:03:33] 200 feet away from it. He shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen. [1:03:36] I will say— Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir. [1:03:40] Look, the way to open businesses is giving them the wherewithal to be able to open. [1:03:45] We provided money— But I was asking you, sir, about masks. [1:03:49] Well, masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now, [1:03:55] if everybody wore masks in social distance between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 [1:04:00] lives. It matters. [1:04:02] And they've also said the opposite. They've also said the opposite. [1:04:05] And no—no serious person said the opposite. [1:04:07] No serious— Dr. Fauci. Dr. Fauci said the opposite. [1:04:11] He did not say the opposite. He said very strongly, masks are not good. [1:04:15] Then he changed his mind. He said masks are good. I'm okay with masks. I'm not fighting masks. [1:04:18] I want to ask you both about one last subject, because your different approaches has even affected [1:04:23] the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you're holding large rallies with crowds [1:04:29] packed together, thousands of people. Outside. Outside, yes, sir. Agreed. [1:04:33] Vice President Biden, you are holding much smaller events with— [1:04:38] Because nobody will show up. [1:04:39] People with— [1:04:40] It's true. Nobody shows up to his rallies. [1:04:43] All right. In any case, why you holding the big rallies? Why you not? You go first, sir. [1:04:48] Because people want to hear what I have to say. I mean— [1:04:51] But are you not worried about it spreading disease? [1:04:53] I'm the president, and I'll have 25,000, 35,000 people show up at airports. We use airports. [1:04:58] Are you not worried about the disease issues, sir? [1:05:01] Well, so far, we have had no problem whatsoever. It's outside. That's a big difference, [1:05:05] according to the experts. And we do them outside. We have tremendous crowds, as you see. I mean, [1:05:12] every— and literally on 24 hours' notice. And Joe does the circles and has three people someplace. [1:05:18] Okay. [1:05:18] By the way, did you see one of the last big rallies he has, and a reporter came up to him to ask him a [1:05:25] question. He said, no, no, no. Stand back. Put on your mask. Put on a mask. Have you been tested? [1:05:31] I'm way— I'm way far away from those other people. That's what he said. I can't. I'm going to be okay. [1:05:37] He's not worried about you. He's not worried about the people out there breathing in one another. [1:05:40] We've had no negative effect. [1:05:41] The cheek to jowl. No negative effect. [1:05:43] We've had no negative effect. And we've had 35,000, 40,000 people at these rallies. [1:05:47] Just quickly finish up, because I want to move on to our next— [1:05:50] Yes, I would. He's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the [1:05:54] the social distancing and people wearing masks, basically encouraged him not to. [1:05:58] All right. [1:05:59] Ben, he's a fool on this. [1:06:00] If you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing. But you can. Nobody cares. [1:06:04] Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy? [1:06:06] Nobody cares. [1:06:06] Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy? [1:06:07] Yes. [1:06:08] The economy is, I think it's fair to say, recovering faster than expected from the shutdown. [1:06:14] Much faster. [1:06:15] In the second quarter, the unemployment rate fell to 8.4 percent last month. [1:06:20] The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, [1:06:24] is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. [1:06:28] President Trump, you say we are in a V-shaped recovery. [1:06:33] Vice President Biden, you say it's more of a K-shape. What difference does that mean [1:06:39] to the American people in terms of the economy? President Trump, in this segment, you go first. [1:06:44] So we built the greatest economy in history. We closed it down because of the China plague. [1:06:49] When the plague came in, we closed it down, which was very hard psychologically to do. [1:06:53] He didn't think we should close it down, and he was wrong. [1:06:56] Again, two million people would be dead now instead of still 204,000 people is too much. [1:07:02] One person is too much. Should have never happened from China. But what happened is, [1:07:07] we closed it down, and now we're reopening. And we're doing record business. We had 10.4 million [1:07:12] people in a four-month period that we've put back into the workforce. That's a record the likes [1:07:17] of which nobody's ever seen before. And he wants to close down the—he will shut it down again. [1:07:22] He will destroy this country. You know, a lot of people between drugs and alcohol and depression, [1:07:28] when you start shutting it down, you take a look at what's happening at some of your Democrat-run [1:07:32] states where they have these tough shutdowns. And I'm telling you, it's because they don't want to [1:07:37] open it. One of them came out last week. You saw that. Oh, we're going to open up on November 9th. [1:07:41] Why November 9th? Because it's after the election. They think they're hurting us [1:07:46] by keeping them closed. They're hurting people. People know what to do. They can social distance. [1:07:51] They can wash the hands. They can wear masks. They can do whatever they want. But they got to open [1:07:55] these states up. When you look at North Carolina, when you look—and these governors are under siege. [1:08:01] Pennsylvania, Michigan, and a couple of others, you got to open these states up. It's not fair. [1:08:07] You're talking about almost just like being in prison. And you look at what's going on with [1:08:11] divorce. Look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs. It's a very, very sad thing. And he'll [1:08:16] close down the whole country. This guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. [1:08:21] Our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. We don't need somebody to [1:08:27] come in and say, let's shut it down. All right. Your two minutes, sir. [1:08:30] We're now moved to you. As I said, posing the question, [1:08:35] the president says it's a V-shaped recovery. You say it's a K-shaped recovery. What's the difference? [1:08:41] The difference is millionaires and billionaires like him in the middle of the COVID crisis [1:08:46] had done very well. Billionaires have made another $300 billion because of his profligate tax [1:08:56] proposal, and he only focused on the market. But you folks at home, you folks living in Scranton [1:09:01] and Claymont and all the small towns and working-class towns in America, how well are you doing? [1:09:07] This guy paid a total of $750 in taxes. [1:09:10] Sir, sir, wait, wait, no, sir. It's the wrong state. [1:09:12] I understand. You've agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it. [1:09:15] Do I get my time back? The fact is that he is, in fact, worked on this in a way that he's going [1:09:21] to be the first president of the United States to leave office, having fewer jobs in his administration [1:09:27] than when he became president. Fewer jobs than when he became president. First one in American history. [1:09:33] Secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines, [1:09:39] those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying, [1:09:43] people who have been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. [1:09:48] And the idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the [1:09:55] states in America with a significant increase in COVID deaths and COVID cases in the United States of [1:10:00] America. And he wants to open it up more. Why does he want to open it up? Why doesn't he take care of [1:10:06] the America? You can't fix the economy until you fix the COVID crisis. And he has no intention of [1:10:12] doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety. [1:10:17] Schools. Why aren't schools open? Because it costs a lot of money to open them safely. [1:10:22] You know, they were going to give his administration going to give the teachers and school students [1:10:27] mask. And then they decided, no, couldn't do that because it's not a national emergency, [1:10:32] not a national emergency. They've done nothing to help small businesses, nothing. They're closing. [1:10:38] One in six is now gone. He ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the American people [1:10:45] so we can open safely. All right. Your time is up, sir. [1:10:47] Well, you're going to get to the— I have to respond to that. [1:10:49] Well, you both had two minutes, sir. Excuse me. He made a statement. [1:10:53] So did you. People want their schools—no, people want their schools open. [1:10:57] They don't want to be shut down. They don't want their state shut down. They want their restaurants. [1:11:01] I look at New York. It's so sad what's happening in New York. It's almost like a ghost town. [1:11:05] And I'm not sure it can ever recover what they've done in New York. People want their places open. [1:11:10] They want to get back to their lives. People want to be safe. [1:11:12] They'll be careful, but they want their schools open. People want to be safe. [1:11:15] I'm the one that brought back football. By the way, I brought back Big Ten football. [1:11:19] It was me, and I'm very happy to do it. And the people of Ohio are very proud of me. [1:11:25] And you know how I got that? When you took a phony ad. [1:11:27] Gentlemen, we're going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment. [1:11:31] But first, Mr. President, as you well know, there's a new report that in 2016, [1:11:36] the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, [1:11:41] that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. [1:11:49] I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I'm asking you the specific question. [1:11:54] Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years? [1:12:00] I paid millions of dollars in taxes, millions of dollars of income tax. [1:12:05] And let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers. [1:12:08] Show us your tax returns. [1:12:09] I paid $38 million one year. I paid $27 million one year. [1:12:14] Show us your tax returns. [1:12:15] I went—you'll see it as soon as it's finished. You'll see it. [1:12:18] You know, if you want to do, go to the Board of Elections. [1:12:21] There's a 118-page or so report that says everything I have, every bank I have, [1:12:27] I'm totally under-leveraged because the assets are extremely good, and we have a very—we have a—I built a great company. [1:12:33] Sir, I'm asking you a specific question, which is— [1:12:35] But let me tell you— [1:12:36] I understand all of that. [1:12:37] At least your tax returns. [1:12:38] I understand all of that. [1:12:39] No, Mr. President. [1:12:40] Go ahead. [1:12:40] I'm asking you a question. [1:12:42] Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017? [1:12:49] Millions of dollars. [1:12:50] You paid millions of dollars? [1:12:51] Millions of dollars, yes. [1:12:52] So not $750. [1:12:53] Millions of dollars, and you'll get to see it. [1:12:55] And you'll get to see it. [1:12:56] But let me just tell you— [1:12:57] Chris, let me just tell you something. [1:12:59] That it was the tax laws. [1:13:01] I don't want to pay tax. [1:13:03] Before I came here, I was a private developer. [1:13:05] I was a private business people. [1:13:07] Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws, [1:13:12] and that's what it is. [1:13:13] He passed a tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. [1:13:20] We build a building and we get tax credits like the hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. [1:13:24] You get a massive— [1:13:25] Okay. [1:13:25] Which, by the way, was given to me by the Obama administration, if you can believe that. [1:13:30] Now, the man got fired right after that happened. [1:13:32] No, no, no. [1:13:33] Vice President Biden, do you want to respond? [1:13:34] Yeah, I do want to respond. [1:13:36] Look, the tax code that made him—put him in a position that he pays less tax than a schoolteacher [1:13:44] makes—on the money a schoolteacher makes is because of him—he says he's smart because [1:13:49] he can take advantage of the tax code. [1:13:51] And he does take advantage of the tax code. [1:13:54] That's why I'm going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. [1:13:57] And we're going to—I'm going to eliminate those tax cuts. [1:13:59] Okay. [1:13:59] And make sure that we invest in the people who, in fact, need the help. [1:14:04] People out there need help. [1:14:05] But why didn't you do it over 20—in the last 25 years? [1:14:08] No, no, no. [1:14:09] Why didn't you do it over the last 25 years? [1:14:10] Because you weren't president screwing things up. [1:14:12] No, no, no. [1:14:12] You were a senator— [1:14:13] You're the worst president in America has ever had. [1:14:16] Hey, Joe, let me just tell you, Joe, I've done more in—in 47 months. [1:14:21] I've done more than you've done in 47 years, Joe. [1:14:24] We've done things that you never even thought of doing, including fixing the broken military [1:14:28] that you gave me, including taking care of your debts. [1:14:30] Mr. President, we're talking about the economy. [1:14:32] I'd like to ask you about your plans going forward because, Mr. Vice President, your economic plan, [1:14:39] if you were to be elected president, focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. [1:14:45] I want to focus first on the taxes. [1:14:47] You proposed more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making [1:14:54] more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. [1:14:58] President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy [1:15:04] as it's just coming out of a recession. [1:15:05] Well, just take a look at what does the—the analysis done by Wall Street firms points out [1:15:11] that my—my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years, [1:15:17] number one, and number two, it would create an additional $1 trillion in economic growth [1:15:23] because it would be about buying American, that we have to—we're going to make—the [1:15:28] federal government spend $600 billion a year on everything from ships to steel to buildings and [1:15:34] the like. And under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made [1:15:41] by a company in America. [1:15:42] But respectfully, sir, I'm talking about taxes, not spending. [1:15:45] Well, by the way, I'm going to eliminate a significant number of the tax. I'm going to [1:15:48] make the—the—the corporate tax 28 percent. It shouldn't be 21 percent. You have 19 company—91 [1:15:55] companies federal—I mean, in the Fortune 500 who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of [1:16:01] dollars. Why didn't you do it before when you were vice president with Obama? [1:16:04] Because—because—because you, in fact, passed that. That was your tax proposal. [1:16:09] That's right. I got it—I got it done. And you know what happened? [1:16:10] Yeah, you got it done. Our economy boomed like it's never boomed before. [1:16:12] And the economy is— [1:16:13] Mr. President, let me finish. Let me—Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You [1:16:17] would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct? [1:16:23] Not lower taxes of American people. Excuse me. [1:16:26] But in—but in—but in Obama's—you talk about the economy booming. [1:16:29] It turns out that in Obama's final three years as president, more jobs were created, [1:16:35] a million and a half more jobs than in the first three years of your presidency. [1:16:39] They had the slowest recovery since—economic recovery since 1929. It was the slowest recovery. [1:16:48] Also, they took over something that was down here. All you had to do is turn on the lights and you pick [1:16:52] up a lot. But they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. Let me tell you about the stock [1:16:58] market. When the stock market goes up, that means jobs. It also means 401Ks. If you got in, [1:17:04] if you ever became president with your ideas, you want to terminate my tax—my taxes, I'll tell you [1:17:09] what, you'll lose half of the companies that have poured in here will leave and plenty of companies [1:17:14] that are already here, they'll leave for other places. They will leave and you will have a depression [1:17:19] the likes of which you've never seen. Look, we inherited the worst recession short of a depression [1:17:26] in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We were able to have an economic recovery that [1:17:31] created the jobs you're talking about. We handed him a booming economy. He blew it. [1:17:36] It wasn't booming. He blew it. It wasn't booming. It was the weakest recovery since 1929. [1:17:43] Is it fair to say he blew it when, in fact, when there was record low unemployment before COVID? [1:17:50] Yeah, but because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. [1:17:54] Manufacturing went in the hole, number one. Excuse me, Chris, wait. [1:17:57] Number two. Chris. Number three. They said it would take—no, you're on number two. No. [1:18:02] Chris, Chris, they said it would take a miracle to bring back manufacturing. I brought back 700,000 [1:18:09] jobs. They brought back nothing. They gave up on manufacturing. Part of my standard fare— [1:18:14] I'm the guy that brought back the automobile industry. [1:18:15] He totally gave up on manufacturing. All right, let him know. [1:18:17] We brought back—I was asked to bring back Chrysler and General Motors. We brought them back [1:18:21] right here in the state of Ohio and Michigan. He blew it. They're gone. He blew it. And in fact, [1:18:26] they're going— Ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. Michigan had the best year they've [1:18:32] ever had. That is not true. [1:18:33] Many car companies came in from Germany, from Japan, went to Michigan, went to Ohio. [1:18:37] They're not having that. And they didn't come in with you. [1:18:39] Mr. Vice President, go ahead. And so, you take a look at what he's actually done. [1:18:43] He's done very little. His trade deals are the same way. He talks about these great trade deals. [1:18:49] You know, he talks about the art of the deal. China's made—perfected the art of the steel. [1:18:53] We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before. We have the highest trade deficit with Mexico. [1:18:58] China ate your lunch. All right, gentlemen. [1:19:00] 100 percent. China ate your lunch, Joe. And no wonder your son goes in and he [1:19:05] takes out—he takes out billions of dollars, takes out billions of dollars to manage. He makes [1:19:11] millions of dollars. And also, while we're at it, why is it, just out of curiosity, [1:19:16] the mayor of Moscow's wife gave your son $3.5 million. What did he do to deserve it? [1:19:22] What did he do with Burisma to deserve $183,000? [1:19:26] None of that is true. None of that is true. [1:19:28] None of that is true. If not, none of that is true. [1:19:30] Oh, really? He didn't get $3.5 million? [1:19:31] No. Hey, Mr. President. [1:19:32] He didn't get $3.5 million? [1:19:34] He did. Mr. President, please. [1:19:34] I've asked the question. [1:19:34] Totally discredited. [1:19:36] Totally discredited. And by the way— [1:19:38] Well, wait. He didn't get $3.5 million, Joe? [1:19:40] Mr. Vice— [1:19:41] He got $3.5 million. [1:19:42] It is not true. [1:19:43] Oh, really? No. [1:19:44] Mr. President, it's an open discussion, please. [1:19:47] No, it's a fact. [1:19:49] Well, you have raised an issue. Let the vice president answer. [1:19:52] It's been totally discredited. [1:19:53] Did Burisma pay him $183,000 a month with no experience in energy? [1:19:58] Mr. President, my son did nothing wrong at Burisma. [1:20:02] I think he did. [1:20:03] Mr. President, let him answer. [1:20:05] He doesn't want to let me answer because he knows I have the truth. [1:20:08] His position has been totally, thoroughly discredited. [1:20:11] By who? The media? [1:20:12] By everybody. Well, by the media, by our allies, by the World Bank, by everyone has discredited. [1:20:21] As a matter of fact, matter of fact, even the people who testified under oath— [1:20:26] Mr. President, please stop. [1:20:26] So let me ask you this. [1:20:27] No, no. Go ahead, Mr. I'm listening to you. [1:20:29] You got $3.5 million from Moscow. [1:20:32] He testified under oath and his administration said, I did my job and I did it very well. [1:20:38] Oh, really? I don't know who they are. [1:20:40] Well, I'll give you the list of the people who testified. [1:20:42] No, no. Go ahead, sir. [1:20:43] Sure. You've already fired most of them because they did a good job. [1:20:46] Some people don't do a good job. [1:20:48] Well, here's the— [1:20:49] Go ahead. Wait a minute. You get the final word, Mr. President. [1:20:51] Well, it's hard to get any word in with this clown. Excuse me, this person. [1:20:54] Hey, hey, let me just say, Joe. [1:20:55] No, no, no. I'm Mr. President. [1:20:57] I'm Mr. President. [1:20:58] Mr. President. [1:20:58] That is simply not true. [1:20:59] Why did he deserve $3.5 million from Moscow? [1:21:02] Look, here's the deal. [1:21:03] We want to talk about families and ethics. I don't want to do that. I mean, his family, [1:21:09] we could talk about all night. His family's already— [1:21:10] My family lost a fortune by coming down and helping us with government. [1:21:16] Go ahead. Go ahead, sir. [1:21:16] And that's such a— [1:21:17] And they're right here. [1:21:18] Mr. President. [1:21:18] Every single one of them lost a fortune. [1:21:20] This is not about my family or his family. It's about your family. [1:21:23] The American people. He doesn't—that's not true. It doesn't want to talk about [1:21:29] what you need. You, the American people. It's about you. That's what we're talking about. [1:21:34] Thank you, sir. It's not about you. [1:21:36] That's the end of the—that's the end of the segment. We're moving on. [1:21:38] He didn't take them. [1:21:39] He didn't take them. [1:21:39] Vice President— [1:21:40] But, Chris, can I be honest? It's a very important question. [1:21:42] Try to be honest. [1:21:42] No, I— [1:21:43] He stood up. [1:21:44] No, the answer to the question is no. [1:21:46] And he threatened Ukraine. [1:21:47] No. [1:21:47] Sir? [1:21:48] Sir? [1:21:48] With a billion dollars— [1:21:49] Sir, that is absolutely not true. [1:21:52] You're going to take doing it. [1:21:53] You're going to have— [1:21:53] You're on tape, true. [1:21:54] Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice, but it seems to me, why shouldn't I be different [1:21:59] than the two of you? So here's the deal. [1:22:01] That's a good point. [1:22:02] We have six segments. We have ended that segment. We're going to go to the next segment. In that [1:22:08] segment, you each are going to have two uninterrupted moments. In those two uninterrupted minutes, [1:22:13] Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I'm going to ask a question about race, [1:22:17] but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But I think that the country would be better [1:22:22] served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruptions. I'm appealing to you, sir, [1:22:28] to do that. [1:22:29] Well, and him, too. [1:22:30] Well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting than he has. [1:22:32] Well, that's all right, but he does plenty. [1:22:33] Well, less than— [1:22:35] Sir, less than— [1:22:35] Does plenty. [1:22:36] No, less than you have. Let's please continue on. The issue of race. Vice President Biden, [1:22:42] you say that President Trump's response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago when [1:22:49] he talked about very fine people on both sides was what directly led you to launch this run for [1:22:57] president. [1:22:57] Oh, yeah, sure. [1:22:58] President Trump, you have often said that you believe you have done more for black Americans [1:23:05] than any president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. My question for the two of you [1:23:11] is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this [1:23:17] country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first. [1:23:21] It's about equity and equality. It's about decency. It's about the Constitution. [1:23:27] And we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of [1:23:34] America. But we've never accomplished it. But we've never walked away from it like he has done. [1:23:40] It is true. The reason I got in the race is when those people— close your eyes. Remember what those [1:23:44] people look like coming out of the fields carrying torches, their veins bulging, spewing, just spewing [1:23:51] anti-Semitic bile and accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. A young woman got killed, and they asked the [1:23:56] president what he thought. He said there were very fine people on both sides. No president has ever said [1:24:02] anything like that. Finish the statement. It is who's who in it, sir. [1:24:06] Second point I'd make to you is that when Floyd was killed, when Mr. Floyd was killed, [1:24:12] there was a peaceful protest in front of the White House. What did he do? He came out of his bunker, [1:24:17] had the military to use tear gas on him so he could walk across to a church and hold up a Bible. [1:24:23] And then what happened after that? The bishop of that very church said that it was a disgrace. [1:24:29] The general who was with him said all he ever wants to do is divide people, [1:24:33] not unite people at all. This is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle [1:24:39] to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. This is a man who, in fact, you talk about helping [1:24:45] African-Americans. One in 1,000 African-Americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. [1:24:53] And if he doesn't do something quickly, by the end of the year, one in 500 will have been killed. [1:24:58] One in 500 African-Americans. This man, this man is the savior of African-Americans. [1:25:05] This man cares at all? This man's done virtually nothing. Look, the fact is that you have to look [1:25:12] at what he talks about. You have to look at what he did. And what he did has been disastrous [1:25:17] for the African-American community. So— [1:25:19] President Trump, you have two minutes. Why should Americans trust you over your [1:25:25] opponent to deal with racism? He did a crime bill, 1994, [1:25:29] where you call them super predators, African-Americans, super predators. [1:25:33] And they've never forgotten it. They've never forgotten it. [1:25:36] I've never said it. No, no, sir. It's his two minutes. [1:25:38] So you did that, and they call you a super predator. And I'm letting people out of jail now that [1:25:42] you have treated the African-American population community, you have treated the black community [1:25:48] about as bad as anybody in this country. You did the 1990—and that's why, if you look at the polls, [1:25:54] I'm doing better than any Republican has done in a long time, because they saw what you did. [1:25:59] You call them super predators, and you've called them worse than that, [1:26:03] because you look back at your testimony over the years, you've called them a lot worse than that. [1:26:07] As far as the church is concerned, and as far as the generals are concerned, [1:26:11] we just got the support of 200—250 military leaders and generals. Total support. Law enforcement, [1:26:18] almost every law enforcement group in the United States. I have Florida. I have Texas. I have Ohio. [1:26:25] I have every—excuse me, Portland. The sheriff just came out today, and he said, [1:26:30] I support President Trump. I don't think you have any law enforcement. You can't even say the word [1:26:35] law enforcement, because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left [1:26:39] supporters. And why aren't you saying those words? Why don't you say the words law enforcement? Because [1:26:44] you know what? If they called us in Portland, we would put out that fire in a half an hour, [1:26:49] but they won't do it, because they're run by radical left Democrats. If you look at Chicago, [1:26:54] if you look at any place you want to look—Seattle—they heard we were coming in the following day, [1:26:59] and they put up their hands, and we got back Seattle. Minneapolis—we got it back, Joe, [1:27:04] because we believe in law and order. But you don't. The top 10 cities and just about the top 40 cities [1:27:11] are run by Democrats and, in many cases, radical left. And they've got you wrapped around their [1:27:16] finger, Joe, to a point where you don't want to say anything about law and order. And I'll tell you [1:27:21] what, the people of this country want and demand law and order, and you're afraid to even say it. [1:27:27] All right. I want to—I want to return to the question of race. Vice President Biden, [1:27:32] after the grand jury in the Breonna Taylor case decided not to charge any of the police [1:27:38] with homicide, you said it raises the question, quote, whether justice could be equally applied [1:27:44] in America. Do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for blacks in this [1:27:51] country? Yes, there is. There's systemic injustice in this country, in education and work and in law [1:27:59] enforcement and the way in which it's enforced. But look, the vast majority of police officers are good, [1:28:05] decent, honorable men and women. They risk their lives every day to take care of us. [1:28:09] But there are some bad apples. And when they occur, when they find them, they have to be sorted out. [1:28:14] They have to be held accountable. They have to be held accountable. And what I'm going to do as [1:28:18] President of the United States is call together an entire group of people at the White House, [1:28:25] blow everything from the civil rights groups to the police officers, the police chiefs, [1:28:29] and we're going to work this out. We're going to work this out. So we change the way in which we have more [1:28:33] transparency in when these things happen. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to George [1:28:39] Floyd. These cops aren't happy to see what happened to Breonna Taylor. Most don't like it. But we have [1:28:46] to have a system where people are held accountable. And by the way, violence and response is never [1:28:52] appropriate, never appropriate. Peaceful protest is. Violence is never appropriate. [1:28:57] All right. What is peaceful protest? When they run through the middle of the town [1:29:00] and burn down your stores and kill people all over the place? [1:29:04] President Trump, that is not peaceful protest. [1:29:05] No, it's not. But you say it is. [1:29:07] President Trump, I'd like to continue with the issue of race. [1:29:10] Yes, go ahead. Please. [1:29:10] I promise we're going to get to the issue of law and order in a moment. [1:29:13] Please. All right. [1:29:14] This month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training [1:29:21] that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. Why did you decide to do that, [1:29:27] to end racial sensitivity training? And do you believe that there is systemic racism in this [1:29:33] country, sir? I ended it because it's racist. I ended it because a lot of people were complaining [1:29:39] that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane, that it was a radical revolution [1:29:45] that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place. And you know it, [1:29:52] and so does everybody else. And he would know. What is radical about racial sensitivity trainings? [1:29:57] If you were a certain person, you had no status in life. It was sort of a reversal. [1:30:03] And if you look at the people, we were paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars [1:30:07] to teach very bad ideas and frankly, very sick ideas. And really, they were teaching people to [1:30:14] hate our country. And I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to allow that to happen. [1:30:17] We have to go back to the core values of this country. They were teaching people that our country [1:30:24] is a horrible place. It's a racist place. And they were teaching people to hate our country. [1:30:29] And I'm not going to allow that to happen. Vice President Biden? [1:30:32] No one is doing that. He's just, he's racist. [1:30:35] You just don't. Here's the deal. I know a lot more about this than he does. [1:30:38] You don't. Let him finish. [1:30:38] The fact is that there is racial insensitivity. People have to be made aware [1:30:45] of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. It's important [1:30:52] to people know. They don't want to. Many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, [1:30:56] but it makes a big difference. It makes a gigantic difference in the way a child [1:31:01] is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. It's a little bit like how [1:31:06] this guy and his friends look down on so many people. They look down their nose on people like [1:31:11] Irish Catholics like me and grew up in Scranton. They look down on people who don't have money. [1:31:15] They look down on people who are of a different faith. They look down on people who are a different [1:31:21] color. In fact, we're all Americans. The only way we're going to bring this country together [1:31:25] is bring everybody together. There's nothing we cannot do if we do it together. We can take this [1:31:31] on and we can defeat racism in America. Vice President, I mean, President Trump, sir. [1:31:35] During the Obama-Biden administration, there was tremendous division. There was hatred. You look [1:31:42] at Ferguson. You look at—you go to very many places. Look at Oakland. Look what happened in [1:31:48] Oakland. Look what happened in Baltimore. Look what happened—frankly, it was more violent than what [1:31:52] I'm even seeing now. But the reason is that the Democrats that run these cities don't want to talk [1:31:59] like you about law and order. Violent crime. Violent crime. Are you in favor of law and order? [1:32:04] I'm in favor of law. You follow— Are you in favor of law and order? [1:32:08] Yes, I'm in favor. You ask the question, let him finish. [1:32:10] Law and order. Law and order. Let him answer. [1:32:13] Law and order with justice where people get treated fairly. Okay. [1:32:16] And the fact of the matter is violent crime went down 17%, 15% in our administration. [1:32:22] All right. It's gone up on his watch. [1:32:24] Went down much more than ours. All right. [1:32:26] We're now— He is president of the United States of America. [1:32:29] Mr. President, you're going to— Mr. President, you're going to— [1:32:30] We're breaking every record in the book. [1:32:31] Mr. President, you're going to be very happy because we're now going to talk about law and order. [1:32:34] Because we had trouble. We're Democratic-run cities. [1:32:37] That's exactly my question. There has been a dramatic increase in homicides in America [1:32:41] this summer particularly, and you often blame that on Democratic mayors and Democratic governors, [1:32:47] but in fact, there have been equivalent spikes in Republican-led cities like Tulsa and Fort Worth. [1:32:54] So the question is, is this really a party issue? [1:32:58] I think it's a party issue. You can bring in a couple of examples, [1:33:00] but if you look at Chicago, what's going on in Chicago, where 53 people were shot and eight died—shot. [1:33:07] If you look at New York, where it's going up like nobody's ever seen anything, [1:33:11] the numbers are going up 100, 150, 200 percent crime. [1:33:15] It is crazy what's going on. And he doesn't want to say law and order because he can't, [1:33:21] because he'll lose his radical left supporters. And once he does that, it's over with. But [1:33:25] if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he would want to run it, [1:33:29] we would have— [1:33:30] We would run it the way— [1:33:31] Our suburbs would be gone. [1:33:32] By the way, our suburbs would be gone. [1:33:35] And you would see problems like you've never seen— [1:33:37] He would know a suburb unless he took a wrong turn. [1:33:39] Oh, I know suburbs. [1:33:40] He would not. [1:33:40] So much better. [1:33:41] Go ahead. Wait a minute. [1:33:42] I was raised in the suburbs. This is not 1950. All these dog whistles and racism don't work [1:33:48] anymore. Suburbs are by and large integrated. There's many people today driving their kids to [1:33:53] soccer practice and or to black and white and Hispanic in the same car as there have been any [1:33:59] time in the past. What really is a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with [1:34:05] COVID. They're dying in the suburbs. His failure to deal with the environment. They're being flooded. [1:34:10] They're being burned out because his refusal to do anything. That's why the suburbs are in trouble. [1:34:15] I do want to talk about this issue of law and order, though, [1:34:17] and in the joint recommendation that came from the Biden-Bernie Sanders task force, [1:34:24] you talked about, quote, reimagining policing. First of all, what does reimagining policing mean, [1:34:31] and do you support— [1:34:33] It means— [1:34:34] Let me— [1:34:34] If I might finish the question, what does reimagining policing mean, [1:34:37] and do you support the Black Lives Matter call for community control of policing? [1:34:46] Look, what I support is the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face. [1:34:53] And I'm totally opposed to defunding the police officers. As a matter of fact, police, local police, [1:34:59] the only one defunding in his budget calls for a $400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance. [1:35:04] They need more assistance. They need, when they show up for a 9-11 call, [1:35:08] to have someone with them as a psychologist or psychiatrist to keep them from having to use [1:35:13] force and be able to talk people down. We have to have community policing like we had before, [1:35:18] where the officers get to know the people in the communities. That's when crime went down. [1:35:24] It didn't go up. It went down. And so we have to be engaged— [1:35:27] That's not what they're talking about, Chris. He's talking about defunding the police. [1:35:32] That is not true. [1:35:33] He doesn't have any law to support. He has no law enforcement support. [1:35:37] That's not true. [1:35:38] Almost nothing. [1:35:39] That's not— [1:35:39] Look, who do you have? Name one group that supports you. [1:35:42] Name one group that came out and supported you. Go ahead. Think. We have time. [1:35:47] We don't have time to do anything. [1:35:48] No, no. Think about it. [1:35:49] All right, folks. [1:35:50] Name one law enforcement group that came out and supported you. [1:35:53] I think, gentlemen, I think I'm going to take back the moderator's role, and I want to get [1:35:58] to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent. In Portland, [1:36:04] Oregon especially, we had more than 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree. [1:36:10] You talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots. [1:36:14] Mr. Vice President, you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. [1:36:20] The question I have, though, is as the Democratic nominee, and earlier tonight you said that you [1:36:25] are the Democratic Party right now, have you ever called the Democratic mayor of Portland or the [1:36:30] Democratic governor of Oregon and said, hey, you've got to stop this, bring in the National Guard, [1:36:36] do whatever it takes, but you stop the days and months of violence in Portland? [1:36:42] I don't hold public office now. I am a former vice president. I've made it clear. [1:36:48] I've made it clear in my public statements that the violence should be prosecuted. [1:36:53] It should be prosecuted. And anyone who commits it should be prosecuted. [1:36:55] But you've never called for the people— [1:36:56] Please never say. [1:36:57] Excuse me, sir. You have never called for the leaders in Portland and [1:37:02] in Oregon to call and bring in the National Guard and knock off 100 days of riots. [1:37:08] They can, in fact, take care of it if he just stay out of the way. [1:37:11] Oh, really? Oh, really? Here's the thing. [1:37:14] I sent in the U.S. Marshals to get the killer of the young man in the middle of the street, [1:37:18] and they shot him. And for three days, Portland wouldn't do anything. [1:37:23] President Trump, they sent in the U.S. Marshals. They took care of business. [1:37:25] Go ahead, sir. [1:37:26] And by the way, you know, his own former spokesperson said, you know, riots and chaos and violence help [1:37:33] us cause. That's what this is all about. [1:37:35] I don't know who said that. I do. Who? [1:37:37] Who? I think Kellyanne Conway. [1:37:40] I don't think she said that. She said that. [1:37:41] And so here's— All right. [1:37:43] Well, here's the point. The point is that that's what he is keeps trying to rile everything up. [1:37:49] He doesn't want to calm things down. Instead of going in and talking to people and saying, [1:37:54] let's get everybody together, figure out how to deal with this. What's he do? He just pours [1:37:58] gasoline in the fire constantly and every single solitary time. [1:38:02] Okay. And to end this, button up this segment, [1:38:05] I'm going to give you a minute to answer, sir. You have repeatedly criticized— [1:38:08] Well, where do I have to answer his statement? [1:38:10] You have repeatedly— Wait, just one second. [1:38:12] No, you've been talking back and forth. [1:38:13] You made a statement. [1:38:14] I'm asking you— [1:38:14] I would love to end it. [1:38:15] You know, sir— [1:38:16] I would love to end it. [1:38:17] You know, if you want to switch seats— [1:38:19] We would very quickly. [1:38:20] We could do that, but I'm— [1:38:20] By sending the National Guard, it would be over. There'd be no problem. [1:38:23] Okay. [1:38:23] But they don't want to accept the National Guard. [1:38:25] You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa [1:38:32] and other left-wing extremist groups. [1:38:34] But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say [1:38:41] that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, [1:38:46] as we saw in Kenosha and as we've seen in Portland? [1:38:49] Sure, I'm willing to do that. [1:38:49] Are you prepared to specifically— [1:38:50] Do it. [1:38:51] Go ahead, sir. [1:38:52] I would say—I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing, not from the right-wing. [1:38:57] So what are you— [1:38:57] What are you saying? [1:38:58] I'm willing to do anything. [1:39:00] I want to see peace. [1:39:00] Well, then do it, sir. [1:39:01] Say it. [1:39:02] Do it. [1:39:02] Say it. [1:39:03] Do you want to call them—what do you want to call them? [1:39:05] Give me a name. [1:39:06] Give me a name. [1:39:06] White supremacists and white supremacists. [1:39:07] Who would you like me to condemn? [1:39:08] White supremacists and white supremacists. [1:39:09] White supremacists and white supremacists. [1:39:10] Proud boys. [1:39:10] Proud boys, stand back and stand by. [1:39:13] But I'll tell you what. [1:39:14] I'll tell you what. [1:39:15] Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing [1:39:20] problem. [1:39:20] His own FBI director said— [1:39:22] This is a left-wing problem. [1:39:23] Go ahead, sir. [1:39:24] White supremacists. [1:39:25] Antifa's an idea, not an organization. [1:39:27] Oh, you got it. [1:39:28] Not militia. [1:39:29] That's what his FBI— [1:39:30] It's an idea. [1:39:31] His FBI director said. [1:39:33] Gentlemen, well, then you know what? [1:39:34] He's wrong. [1:39:34] No, no. [1:39:35] We're done. [1:39:35] We're done, sir. [1:39:35] We're moving on to the next— [1:39:36] Everybody in your administration tells [1:39:41] you the truth is a bad idea. [1:39:43] Can I tell you what? [1:39:44] You have no ideas that are— [1:39:45] Antifa is a dangerous, radical rule. [1:39:48] All right, gentlemen, we're now moving on to [1:39:50] the Trump and Biden records. [1:39:51] And you ought to be careful with them. [1:39:51] They'll overthrow you. [1:39:52] When a president— [1:39:53] I'm going to ask a question. [1:39:54] When the president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record. [1:40:00] But, Vice President Biden, you like to quote one of your dad's sayings, which is, [1:40:04] don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And in this case, sir, [1:40:09] you are the alternative. Looking at both of your records, I'm going to ask each of you, [1:40:16] why should voters elect you president over your opponent? In this segment, President Trump, [1:40:21] you go first, two minutes. [1:40:22] Because there has never been an administration or president who has done more than I've done [1:40:29] in a period of three and a half years. And that's despite the impeachment hoax. And you saw what [1:40:35] happened today with Hillary Clinton, where it was a whole big con job. But despite going through [1:40:40] all of these things, where I had to fight both flanks and behind me and above, there has never been [1:40:45] an administration that's done what I've done. The greatest—before COVID came in, the greatest [1:40:50] economy in history, lowest unemployment numbers. Everything was good. Everything was going. And by [1:40:56] the way, there was unity going to happen. People were calling me. For the first time in years, [1:41:01] they were calling, and they were saying, it's time, maybe. And then what happened? We got hit, [1:41:05] but now we're building it back up again. A rebuilding of the military, including Space Force [1:41:10] and all of the other things. A fixing of the VA, which was a mess under him. 308,000 people died [1:41:18] because they didn't have proper health care. It was a mess. And we now got a 91% approval rating [1:41:24] at the VA, our vets. We take care of our vets. But we've rebuilt our military. The job that we've done, [1:41:30] and I'll tell you something, some people say maybe the most important. By the end of the first term, [1:41:34] I'll have approximately 300 federal judges and court of appeals judges, 300, [1:41:40] and hopefully three great Supreme Court judges, justices. That is a record, the likes of which [1:41:48] very few people—and you know one of the reasons I have so many judges? Because President Obama and [1:41:53] him left me 128 judges to fill. When you leave office, you don't leave any judges. That's like, [1:42:00] you just don't do that. They left 128 openings. And if I were a member of his party, [1:42:07] because they have a little different philosophy, I'd say, if you left us 128 openings, [1:42:14] you can't be a good president. You can't be a good vice president. But I want to thank you, [1:42:18] because it gives us almost—it'll probably be above that number by the end of this term. [1:42:23] Yes, sir. 300 judges. It's a record. [1:42:26] Looking at both of your records, why should voters elect you president, [1:42:31] as opposed to President Trump? You have two minutes uninterrupted. [1:42:34] Under this president, we've become weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided, and more violent. [1:42:42] When I was vice president, we inherited a recession. I was asked to fix it. I did. We left him a [1:42:49] booming economy, and he caused a recession with regard to being weaker. The fact is that I've gone [1:42:56] head-to-head with Putin and made it clear to him we're not going to take any of his stuff. He's Putin's [1:43:01] puppy. He still refuses to even say anything to Putin about the bounty on the heads of American [1:43:06] soldiers. Your son got $3.5 million. And by the way, my son— [1:43:11] Mr. President, wait a minute. Mr. President, your campaign agreed to both sides would get [1:43:16] two-minute answers uninterrupted. Well, your side agreed to it. And why don't you observe what [1:43:23] your campaign agreed to as a ground rule, okay, sir? He never keeps his word. [1:43:26] No, no, no. That was a rhetorical question. Go ahead, sir. [1:43:30] Can I have that back 30 seconds? Yes, you may have. All right. Go ahead. [1:43:34] So, thirdly, we're poor. The billionaires have gotten much more wealthy by a tune of over $300 [1:43:41] to $400 billion more just since COVID. You in the home, you got less. You're in more trouble than you [1:43:49] were before. In terms of being more violent, when we were in office, there were 15% less violence in [1:43:56] America than there is today. He's president of the United States. It's on his watch. [1:44:01] And with regard to more divided, the nation can't stay divided. We can't be this way. [1:44:07] And speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being [1:44:12] losers and being—and just being suckers, my son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. [1:44:20] He got the bronze star. He got the conspicuous service medal. He was not a loser. He was a [1:44:28] patriot. And the people left behind there were heroes. Really? [1:44:32] And I resent— Are you talking about Hunter? [1:44:33] Are you talking about Hunter? I'm talking about my son, [1:44:35] Beau Biden. You're talking about— I don't know Beau. I know Hunter. [1:44:38] Yeah, you know Beau. Hunter got thrown— [1:44:39] Hunter got thrown out of the military. He was thrown out, dishonorably discharged— [1:44:44] That's not true. It wasn't dishonorably— [1:44:45] That's not true. He did not have a job until you became vice president. [1:44:49] None of that is true. [1:44:51] He made a fortune in Ukraine, in China, in Moscow, and various other places. [1:44:56] That is simply not true. He made a fortune, gentlemen, and he didn't have a job. [1:44:59] My son, like a lot of people, like a lot of people we know at home, had a drug problem. [1:45:05] He's overtaken it. He's fixed it. He's worked on it. And I'm proud of him. I'm proud of him. [1:45:09] But why was he given tens of millions of dollars? [1:45:11] All right. But he wasn't given tens of millions of dollars. [1:45:13] He was given tens of millions of dollars. [1:45:15] That is totally— [1:45:16] President Trump, we've already been through this. [1:45:18] We've already been through this. We've already been through this. [1:45:21] I think the American people would rather hear about more substantial subjects. [1:45:25] Well, you know, as the moderator, sir, I'm going to make a judgment call here. [1:45:28] I know, but when somebody gets three and a half million dollars from the mayor of Moscow, [1:45:32] that is not true. That report is totally discredited. [1:45:35] I think— [1:45:36] Mitt Romney on that committee said it wasn't worth taxpayers' money, that report. [1:45:40] It was written for political reasons. [1:45:41] You know, I'd like to talk about climate change. [1:45:44] So would I. [1:45:45] OK. The forest fires in the West are raging now. [1:45:48] They have burned millions of acres. They have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. [1:45:55] When state officials there blamed the fires on climate change, Mr. President, [1:45:59] you said, I don't think the science knows. Over your four years, [1:46:04] you have pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord. You have rolled back a number of Obama [1:46:09] environmental records. What do you believe about the science of climate change, [1:46:16] and what will you do in the next four years to confront it? [1:46:19] I want crystal clean water and air. I want beautiful clean air. We have now the lowest carbon. [1:46:26] If you look at our numbers right now, we are doing phenomenally. But I haven't destroyed our [1:46:32] businesses. Our businesses aren't put out of commission. If you look at the Paris Accord, [1:46:37] it was a disaster from our standpoint. And people are actually very happy about what's going on [1:46:43] because our businesses are doing well. As far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management [1:46:47] in addition to everything else. The forest floors are loaded up with trees, dead trees that are [1:46:53] years old, and they're like tinder, and leaves and everything else. You drop a cigarette in there, [1:46:58] the whole forest burns down. You've got to have forest management. You've got to have cuts. [1:47:02] What do you believe about the science of climate change, sir? [1:47:05] I believe that we have to do everything we can to have immaculate air, immaculate water, [1:47:11] and do whatever else we can that's good. You know, we're planting a billion trees, [1:47:15] the Billion Tree Project, and it's very exciting for a lot of people. [1:47:17] Do you believe that human pollution, gas, greenhouse gas emissions, [1:47:22] contributes to the global warming of this planet? [1:47:24] I think a lot of things do, but I think to an extent, yes. I think to an extent, yes. But I also think [1:47:29] we have to do better management of our forests. Every year I get the call, California's burning, [1:47:36] California's burning. If that was cleaned, if that were—if you had forest management, [1:47:41] good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. You know, in Europe, [1:47:45] they live their forest cities. They're called forest cities. They maintain their forest. They [1:47:50] manage their forest. I was with the head of a major country. It's a forest city. He said, [1:47:56] sir, we have trees that are far more—they ignite much easier than California. There shouldn't be [1:48:03] that problem. I spoke with the governor about it. I'm getting along very well with the governor. [1:48:07] But I said, you know, at some point, you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of [1:48:13] land just burned to the ground. That's burning down because of a lack of— [1:48:17] But, sir, if you believe in the science of climate change, [1:48:20] why have you rolled back the Obama Clean Power Plan, which limited carbon emissions in power plants? [1:48:27] Why have you relaxed— [1:48:28] Because it was driving energy prices through the sky. [1:48:30] Why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution from cars and trucks? [1:48:36] Well, not really, because what's happening is the car is much less expensive, [1:48:40] and it's a much safer car. And you're talking about a tiny difference. And then what would happen, [1:48:45] because of the cost of the car, you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. [1:48:50] We have the old slugs out there that are 10, 12 years old. If you did that, the car would be safer. [1:48:56] It would be much cheaper. [1:48:57] But in the case of California, they've simply ignored your robot. [1:49:00] No, but you would take a lot of cars off the market because people would be able to afford a car. [1:49:04] Now, so—and by the way, we're going to see how that turns out. But a lot of people agree with me, [1:49:09] many people. The car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place [1:49:14] for an extra little bit of gasoline. And I'm okay with electric cars, too. I think I'm all for electric [1:49:21] cars. I've given big incentives for electric cars. But what they've done in California is just crazy. [1:49:26] All right. Vice President Biden, [1:49:28] I'd like you to respond to the president's climate change record. But I also want to ask you [1:49:34] about a concern. You proposed $2 trillion in green jobs. You talk about new limits, [1:49:40] not abolishing, but new limits on fracking, ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by [1:49:45] 2035 and zero net emission of greenhouse gases by 2050. The president says a lot of these things [1:49:53] would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs. He's absolutely wrong, number one. Number two, [1:49:59] we're going to make sure that we are able to take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet that's [1:50:28] run on their electric vehicles, making sure that we can do that. We're going to put 500,000 charging [1:50:33] stations and all of the highways that we're going to be building in the future. We're going to build [1:50:38] an economy that, in fact, is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings [1:50:45] and make sure that they, in fact, are weatherized in a way that, in fact, they'll emit significantly [1:50:51] less gas and oil because the heat will not be going out. There's so many things that we can do now to [1:50:57] create thousands and thousands of jobs. We can get to net zero in terms of energy production by 2035, [1:51:06] not only not costing people jobs, creating jobs, creating millions of good-paying jobs, [1:51:12] not 15 bucks an hour, but prevailing wage by having a new infrastructure that, in fact, is green. [1:51:20] And the first thing I will do, I will rejoin the Paris Accord. I will join the Paris Accord [1:51:25] because with us out of it, look what's happening. It's all falling apart. And talk about someone who has [1:51:31] no relationship with foreign policy. Brazil, the rainforest of Brazil, are being torn down, [1:51:38] are being ripped down. More carbon is absorbed in that rainforest than every bit of carbon that's [1:51:43] emitted in the United States. Instead of doing something about that, I would be gathering up and [1:51:48] making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion and say, here's $20 billion, [1:51:53] $20 billion. Stop, stop tearing down the forest. And if you don't, then you're going to have significant [1:52:02] economic consequences. What about the argument that President Trump basically says that you have to [1:52:07] balance environmental interests and economic interests, and he's drawn his line. Well, he hasn't [1:52:14] drawn a line. He still, for example, makes sure that we, he wants to make sure that methane is not a [1:52:18] problem. We can, you, you can now emit more methane without it being a problem. Methane. [1:52:23] This is a guy who says that you don't have to have Miley standards for automobiles that exist now. [1:52:28] This is a guy who says that, well, the fact is, it's, it's all true. And here's the deal. [1:52:34] He's talking about the Green New Deal. And it's not $2 billion or $20 billion, as you said. It's $100 [1:52:40] trillion. I'm talking about it. Where they want to rip down buildings and rebuild the building. [1:52:46] It's the dumbest, most ridiculous, where airplanes are out of business, where two-car systems are out, [1:52:52] where they want to take out the cows, too. You know, that's not true either, right? [1:52:55] Not true. This is a, this is a $100 trillion. That's more money than our country could make [1:53:02] in a hundred years if we're going by. It's simply not the case. [1:53:04] All right, let me, let me, let me. Because I actually, wait a minute, sir. I actually [1:53:09] have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million hounds [1:53:15] over four years, building one and a half million energy-efficient homes. So the question becomes, [1:53:22] some, the president is saying, I think some people who support the president would say [1:53:27] that sounds like it's going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy. [1:53:30] What it's going to do, it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs, good-paying jobs. [1:53:34] Let him finish, sir. He doesn't know how to do that. [1:53:37] $100 million. The fact is, [1:53:39] it's going to create millions of good-paying jobs, and these tax incentives to people, [1:53:44] for people to weatherize, which he wants to get, get rid of. It's going to make the economy much [1:53:49] safer. Look how much we're paying now to deal with the hurricanes, deal with, by the way, [1:53:53] he has an answer for hurricanes. He said, maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them. They may. [1:53:57] I never said that. [1:53:58] That's what he did say. [1:53:59] You made it up. [1:53:59] And here's the deal. [1:54:01] You make up a lot of things. [1:54:02] We are going to be in a position where we can create hard, hard, good jobs by [1:54:09] making sure the environment is clean and we all are in better shape. We spend billions of dollars now, [1:54:16] billions of dollars on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. We're in real trouble. Look what's happened [1:54:22] just in the Midwest with these storms that come through and wipe out entire sections and counties in [1:54:28] Iowa. They didn't happen before. They're because of global warming. We make up 15 percent of the [1:54:34] world's problem. We, in fact, but the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. [1:54:39] That's why we have to get back into, back into the Paris Accord. [1:54:44] All right, gentlemen, we— [1:54:45] Wait a minute, Chris. So why didn't he do it for 47 years? You were vice president. [1:54:48] Why didn't you get the world— [1:54:49] For 47— [1:54:50] China sends up real dirt into the air. Russia does. India does. They all do. [1:54:54] We're supposed to be good. And by the way, he made a couple of statements. The Green New Deal [1:54:59] is $100 trillion, not $20 billion. That is not my plan. [1:55:02] The Green New Deal is not my plan. [1:55:05] Well, you want to rebuild every building. [1:55:06] You want to rebuild everything. If you knew anything about— [1:55:07] Wait, gentlemen. [1:55:08] He made a statement about the military. He said I said something about the military. [1:55:12] He and his friends made it up and then they went with it. I never said it. [1:55:16] Okay. That is not true. [1:55:17] Sir, you're done in this segment. He called the military stupid bastards. [1:55:21] I did not say that. He said stupid bastards. [1:55:25] Sir, please not say that. Stop. I would never say that to stop. [1:55:28] I would never say that to stop. [1:55:28] Play it. Play it. [1:55:29] Go ahead. Mr. Vice President answered his final question. [1:55:34] The final question is, I can't remember which of all is ranting. [1:55:37] I'm having a little trouble myself. And about the economy and about this question of what it's going to cost. [1:55:44] The economy. I mean, the Green New Deal and the idea of what your environmental changes will do. [1:55:50] The Green New Deal will pay for itself as we move forward. We're not going to build plants that, [1:55:56] in fact, are great polluting plants. [1:55:58] Do you support the Green New Deal? Pardon me? [1:56:00] Do you support? [1:56:01] No, I don't support the Green New Deal. [1:56:03] Oh, you don't. Oh, well, that's a big statement. [1:56:04] I support the Biden. That means you just lost the radical left. [1:56:07] I support the Biden plan that I put forward. [1:56:11] Okay. [1:56:12] The Biden plan, which is different than what he calls the radical Green New Deal. [1:56:16] All right, gentlemen, final segment, election integrity. As we meet tonight, [1:56:22] millions of Americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. [1:56:28] How confident should we be that this will be a fair election? And what are you prepared to do [1:56:34] over the next five-plus weeks? Because it will not only be to election day, but also counting some [1:56:41] ballots, mail-in ballots after election day. What are you prepared to do to reassure the American [1:56:47] people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election in this final [1:56:53] segment? Mr. Vice President, you go first. [1:56:55] Prepare to let people vote. They should go to iwillvote.com. Decide how they're going to vote, [1:57:00] when they're going to vote, and what means by which they're going to vote. [1:57:03] His own Homeland Security Director, as well as the FBI Director, says there is no [1:57:08] evidence at all that mail-in ballots are a source of being manipulated and cheating. [1:57:13] They said that. The fact is that there are going to be millions of people because of COVID [1:57:17] that are going to be voting by mail-in ballots, like he does, by the way. He sits behind the [1:57:22] resolute desk and sends his ballot to Florida, number one. Number two, we're going to make sure [1:57:27] that those people who want to vote in person are able to vote because enough poll watchers are there [1:57:32] to make sure they can socially distance. The polls are open on time, and the polls stay open until [1:57:38] the votes are counted. And this is all about trying to dissuade people from voting [1:57:43] because he's trying to scare people into thinking that it's not going to be legitimate. Show up and [1:57:49] vote. You will determine the outcome of this election. Vote, vote, vote. If you're able to [1:57:55] vote early in your state, vote early. If you're able to vote in person, vote in person. Vote whatever [1:58:01] way is the best way for you, because you will—he cannot stop you from being able to determine the [1:58:07] outcome of this election. And in terms of whether or not when the votes are counted and they're all [1:58:11] counted, that will be accepted. If I win, that will be accepted. If I lose, that will be accepted. [1:58:17] But by the way, if in fact he says he's not sure what he's going to accept, well, let me tell you [1:58:22] something. It doesn't matter, because if we get the votes, it's going to be all over. He's going to go. [1:58:27] He can't stay in power. It won't happen. It won't happen. So vote. Just make sure you understand you [1:58:34] have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. [1:58:39] Is it going to change or you can get four more years of these lies? [1:58:43] Mr. President, two minutes. [1:58:46] So when I listened to Joe talking about a transition, there's been no transition [1:58:52] from when I won. I won that election. And if you look at Crooked Hillary Clinton, [1:58:56] if you look at all of the different people, there was no transition, [1:59:00] because they came after me trying to do a coup. They came after me spying on my campaign. [1:59:05] They started from the day I won and even before I won, from the day I came down the escalator with [1:59:09] our first lady. They were a disaster. They were a disgrace to our country. And we've caught them. [1:59:15] We've caught them all. We've got it all on tape. We've caught them all. And by the way, [1:59:19] you gave the idea for the Logan Act against General Flynn. You better take a look at that, [1:59:23] because we caught you in a sense. And President Obama was sitting in the office. He knew about it, [1:59:28] too. So don't tell me about a free transition. As far as the ballots are concerned, it's a disaster. [1:59:34] A solicited ballot, OK, solicited is OK. You're soliciting. You're asking. They send it back. [1:59:41] You send it back. I did that. If you have an unsolicited—they're sending millions of ballots [1:59:46] all over the country. There's fraud. They found them in creeks. They found some with the name Trump, [1:59:52] just happened to have the name Trump just the other day in a waste paper basket. They're being sent all [1:59:57] over the place. They sent two in a Democrat area. They sent out a thousand ballots. Everybody got [2:00:02] two ballots. This is going to be a fraud like you've never seen. The other thing, [2:00:06] it's nice on November 3rd, you're watching, and you see who won the election. And I think we're going [2:00:11] to do well, because people are really happy with the job we've done. But you know what? We won't know. [2:00:16] We might not know for months, because these ballots are going to be all over. Take a look at what happened [2:00:21] in Manhattan. Take a look at what happened in New Jersey. Take a look at what happened in Virginia [2:00:25] and other places. They're not losing 2 percent, 1 percent, which, by the way, is too much. An [2:00:30] election could be won or lost with that. They're losing 30 and 40 percent. It's a fraud, and it's a [2:00:36] shame. And can you imagine where they say you have to have your ballot in by November 10th? November 10th. [2:00:43] That means that's seven days after the election, in theory, should have been announced. We have [2:00:49] major states with that, all run by Democrats. Two minutes is two minutes. [2:00:53] All run by Democrats. It's a rigged election. President Trump, you're going to be able to [2:00:57] continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You [2:01:02] say it's rigged, that it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, [2:01:08] 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was a quarter, more than a quarter of all the voters [2:01:16] that year cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, [2:01:23] what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, [2:01:28] including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute? Yeah, I think I'm counting on them to look at the [2:01:33] ballots, definitely. I don't think—well, I hope we don't need them in terms of the election itself. [2:01:38] But for the ballots, I think so. Because what's happening is incredible. I just heard, [2:01:42] I read today, where at least 1% of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They take them, [2:01:50] we don't like them, we don't like them. But what are you going to do about it? [2:01:52] There are millions of ballots going out right now. What are you going to do? [2:01:54] What you do is you go and vote. You do a solicited ballot, and that's okay, [2:01:58] or you go and vote. I'm asking you about the fact that millions of people— [2:02:01] You go and vote. You go and vote. No, but what I'm saying is, [2:02:04] like they used to— What are you going to do about the fact that millions of people— [2:02:06] You either do, Chris, a solicited ballot where you're sending it in, [2:02:10] they're sending it back, and you're sending—they have mailmen with lots of—did you see what's [2:02:14] going on? Take a look at West Virginia, mailmen selling the ballots. They're being sold. They're [2:02:19] being dumped in rivers. This is a horrible thing for our country. This is not— [2:02:22] There is no evidence of that. This is not going to end well. [2:02:27] There is no evidence of that. [2:02:27] Okay. This is not going to end well. [2:02:29] Vice President Biden. [2:02:29] Five states have had mail-in ballots for the last decade or more, five, [2:02:35] including two Republican states, and you don't have to solicit the ballot. It's sent to you. [2:02:40] It's sent to your home. What we're saying is, they're saying is that it has to be a postmark [2:02:45] by the time—by election day. If it doesn't get in until the seventh, eighth, ninth, it still [2:02:51] should be counted. He's just afraid of counting the votes because— [2:02:55] You're wrong. You're wrong. [2:02:56] I love you. I love you. [2:02:57] I want to continue with you on this, Vice President Biden. [2:03:00] Chris, he's so wrong when he makes a statement like that. [2:03:02] No, excuse me. Vice President Biden, the biggest problem, in fact, over the years with mail-in voting [2:03:08] has not been fraud historically. It has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of [2:03:14] ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out or there is some other [2:03:19] irregularity or they missed the deadline. So the question I have is, are you concerned [2:03:24] that the Supreme Court with a Justice Barrett will settle any dispute? [2:03:28] I'm concerned that any court would settle this because here's the deal. When you file, [2:03:34] when you get a ballot and you fill it out, you're supposed to have an affidavit. If you didn't know, [2:03:39] you have someone say that this is me, you should be able to, if in fact you can verify that's you [2:03:45] when the before the ballot is thrown out, that's sufficient to be able to count the ballot because [2:03:51] someone made a mistake and not dotting the correct I. Who they voted for, testify, say who they voted for, [2:03:59] say it's you. That is totally legitimate. All right. [2:04:02] When you have 80 million ballots, Senate is swamping the system, you know it can't be done, [2:04:09] you know it can't, and already it's been fraud. [2:04:11] All right. So now mail service delivers 185 million. [2:04:15] In eight states, we can keep talking. In eight states, election workers are prohibited [2:04:22] currently by law, eight states, from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the [2:04:28] envelopes and flatten them until election day. That means that it's likely, because there's going [2:04:33] to be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the [2:04:39] winner is, that it could be days, it could be weeks, until we find out who the, the new president is. [2:04:46] So I, first for you, sir, finally for the, for the vice president, I hope neither of you will [2:04:51] interrupt the other. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, [2:04:58] not to engage in any civil unrest? And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory [2:05:04] until the election has been independently certified? President Trump, you go first. [2:05:09] I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, [2:05:14] because that's what has to happen. I am urging them to do it. As you know, [2:05:18] today there was a big problem. In Philadelphia, they went in to watch. They were called poll watchers, [2:05:23] a very safe, very nice thing. They were thrown out. They weren't allowed to watch. [2:05:27] You know why? Because bad things happen in Philadelphia, bad things. And I am urging, [2:05:33] I am urging my people. I hope it's going to be a fair election. If it's a fair election, [2:05:37] what I am a hundred percent on board. But if I see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, [2:05:43] I can't go along with that. And I'll tell you what, from a common sense. [2:05:47] Does that mean you're going to tell your people to take to the screen? [2:05:49] It means you have a fraudulent election. You're sending out 80 million ballots. [2:05:53] They're not equipped. These people aren't equipped to handle it, number one. Number two, [2:05:58] they cheat. They cheat. Hey, they found ballots in a waste paper basket three days ago, [2:06:04] and they all had the name military ballots. They were military. They all had the name Trump on them. [2:06:09] Vice President Biden, final question for you. Will you urge your supporters to stay calm [2:06:15] while the vote is counted? And will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is [2:06:21] independently certified? Yes. And here's the deal. We count the ballots. As you pointed out, [2:06:26] some of these ballots in some states can't even be opened until election day. And if there's thousands [2:06:32] of ballots, it's going to take time to do it. And by the way, our military, they've been voting by [2:06:38] ballots at the end of the Civil War, in effect. And that's what's going to happen. Why was it not? [2:06:45] Why is it for them somehow not fraudulent? It's the same process. It's honest. No one has established [2:06:52] at all that there is fraud related to mail-in ballots, that somehow it's a fraudulent process. [2:06:59] It's already been established. Take a look at Carolyn Maloney's race. [2:07:03] I asked you. You had an opportunity to respond. Look at Carolyn Maloney. Go ahead. [2:07:06] They have no idea what happened. Why is President Biden go ahead? [2:07:08] He has no idea what he's talking about. Here's the deal. The fact is, I will accept it. And he will, [2:07:12] too. You know why? Because once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, [2:07:18] all the votes are counted, that'll be the end of it. That'll be the end of it. And if it's me, [2:07:24] in fact, fine. If it's not me, I'll support the outcome. And I'll be a president not just for the [2:07:29] Democrats. I'll be a president for Democrats and Republicans. And this guy— [2:07:34] I want to see an honest ballot count. [2:07:36] Gentlemen, you say that's the end of it? This is the end of this debate? [2:07:39] I want to see an honest ballot count. And I think he does, too. [2:07:42] We're going to leave it there. To be continued in more debates as we go on. [2:07:47] President Trump, Vice President Biden, it's been an interesting hour and a half. I want to thank you [2:07:52] both for participating in the first of three debates that you have agreed to engage in. [2:07:57] We want to thank Case Western Reserve University and the Cleveland Clinic for hosting this event. [2:08:02] The next debate, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, [2:08:06] will be one week from tomorrow, October 7th, at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. [2:08:11] The two vice presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris, [2:08:16] will debate at 9 p.m. Eastern that night. We hope you watch. [2:08:19] Until then, thank you and good night. Thank you. [2:08:29] And thus, the first presidential debate of 2020 [2:08:32] concludes a night of chaos, an interruption, where the— [2:08:38] Bullying. [2:08:38] Bullying, where the former vice president of the United States said of the president, [2:08:44] you are the worst president America has ever had. Biden appeared to become prepared for the night. [2:08:50] Trump seemed perturbed. And so Trump's strategy tonight was to interrupt, [2:08:55] to try and steamroll not only his opponent, but also the moderator who was unable to keep control [2:09:01] of the two candidates. I think one of the questions we're all asking tonight is, [2:09:05] can we really have two more of these debates with the type of behavior that was displayed [2:09:10] tonight? Do you know what I was thinking, [2:09:11] Laura? I was thinking that they all probably want to drink after this, but all for very different [2:09:16] reasons. I found it at times painful to watch and very difficult to watch. You know, [2:09:21] we have the president of the United States engaging in some of the language. And it wasn't that it was [2:09:27] swearing or cursing. It was just—I'm looking for the decorum and decency that you expect at this [2:09:34] particular level. And it was very hard to get it tonight. [2:09:37] And we should remember what the stakes are. They've never been higher while a debate's going on. [2:09:42] We have 200,000 dead from COVID. We have an economy that is cratering. And we have significant [2:09:47] ongoing racial unrest over the injustices in the American system. And when the stakes were that high, [2:09:54] the debate couldn't have been lower. And it was not an equal opportunity experience. The president of [2:10:00] the United States, who has a duty and stewardship role in caring for those three things, was by far [2:10:07] responsible for a greater share of the jaggedness of tonight at a time when America does not need [2:10:12] jagged. America is experiencing jagged. And they are looking to these two gentlemen to take the [2:10:17] country over in the—in the midst of this period of jaggedness. And the president came, it seemed, [2:10:22] with just a sawtooth. We are going to have a poll tonight about who won. We are going to fact-check [2:10:29] tonight. We are going to have more analysis. We are going to talk to Kamala Harris. So there's still [2:10:33] a lot ahead in this hour. I want to bring in now CBS's Major Garrett, who was fact-checking [2:10:39] some of the claims tonight. Major? Not all the claims, Nora. And if the audience would ask itself, [2:10:45] was crosstalk on stage tonight? Yes, we would rate that as true. Now, to some of the contentions [2:10:51] made during the debate. Our first fact-check is—this came early in the debate. Former Vice President Biden [2:10:56] said that 100 million Americans have pre-existing conditions. We rate that as partially true, [2:11:01] and here's why. In 2017, this would be the Trump administration's Department of Health and Human [2:11:06] Services released a study, and it found that 23 percent to 51 percent of non-elderly Americans, [2:11:11] meaning those under the age of 65, or 61 million to 133 million Americans, have pre-existing conditions. [2:11:19] That's why we rate that claim as partially true. Also during the debate, when it was focused on COVID-19, [2:11:25] the president said younger people aren't vulnerable about this, meaning vulnerable in exposure to [2:11:31] COVID-19. The American Academy of Pediatrics has said, yes, in fact, incidence rate is low, [2:11:37] hospitalizations and death are low, but there is still incident rates. Transmissibility has been [2:11:43] confirmed, and so we rate that as misleading, that the president contending that children simply aren't [2:11:49] vulnerable to the virus misleading. The third one we have, Nora and team, is the president asserted [2:11:55] that during the Obama-Biden administration, it presided over the slowest economic recovery [2:12:01] since 1929. We rate that as false. Economists will differ on all sorts of things when it comes to [2:12:08] economic numbers, but it is clear to say that the slowest recovery from a recession was after the 2001 [2:12:15] dot-com bubble burst, and that the recovery from the Great Recession, while slow, and by historic [2:12:24] standards, not nearly as great as recoveries from deep recessions, it was not the slowest recovery [2:12:30] since 1929, which is why we rate it as false. Major, I have to just also, after all that fact-checking, [2:12:37] though, get your take on what just happened tonight. So, to your point, Nora, the president clearly wanted [2:12:44] to do everything he could to get Joe Biden, the former vice president, either off his game [2:12:50] or distracted by his mere presence. And I was in contact with Biden, debate prep specialists, [2:12:58] and they said the big challenge for the former vice president was to not take that, was to stay [2:13:03] on point. He tried the best he could, but he also got personal in ways that I think the debate team [2:13:07] would have preferred that he not. All right, Major Garrett, thank you. We are joined now by the [2:13:13] president's son, Donald Trump Jr., from the debate hall. And, Don, thank you so much for joining us. [2:13:20] We've witnessed the national polls for the last several months with Joe Biden ahead by [2:13:24] double digits. We see in Ohio now that Joe Biden closing in on a state that your father won [2:13:29] handling. Was that part of the nervousness that you think happened with the president tonight? Is [2:13:34] that why he kept interrupting Joe Biden and also trying to steamroll the moderator? [2:13:38] No, I think it's because Donald Trump is a fighter. He's been fighting for the American people. He's [2:13:43] taken heat and hits. I mean, I know personally, right? I mean, you know well that I did 30 hours [2:13:48] of testimony for doing a fraction of what, let's say, Hunter Biden did. Now there's an actual link to [2:13:53] Russia. There's an actual link to Vladimir Putin to the tune of $3.5 million to the Biden family. [2:13:59] And I think when my father looks at what- Don, why keep talking about that? Why not talk about the [2:14:02] policies for the American people? People are hurting because of coronavirus, because their [2:14:07] kids are not in school. Because we have to talk about- [2:14:09] Why not talk about the plan for that? No, but I mean, how to help people? [2:14:12] No, we do, because why would it happen to one side, but it's totally ignored by the other? [2:14:16] So I think you have to put that into perspective. Donald Trump, you talk about racism tonight. [2:14:20] That was a big topic. Donald Trump did prison reform. Donald Trump created opportunity zones. [2:14:24] Donald Trump did the first step back. Why didn't Joe Biden do it? I mean, [2:14:27] he cares about it so much, he didn't do anything about it for 47 years. I mean, [2:14:31] I would have thought that if he really cared about the issue, that as the vice president to [2:14:35] the first African-American president, he would have done it. But he won't, [2:14:38] because he wants to pander, and he has to. And that's the reality. So [2:14:41] when I look at my father, if he takes that stance, it's because he hasn't been treated fairly in these [2:14:46] things. If you look at the differences on similar issues, the way it's handled, Joe Biden can get away [2:14:51] with murder, because the mainstream media has decided- Don, here's a subject. The mainstream media has [2:14:55] decided to be the marketing arm of the DNC. Don, here's a subject a lot of people care about, [2:14:59] black and white hate groups. Proud Boys is considered a hate group. Your father told him [2:15:04] tonight this, stand down and stand by. He didn't just condemn white supremacist groups. And what does [2:15:10] he mean by stand by? What is that? I don't know what stand by. He said to stand down. He said he's [2:15:15] more than happy to condemn them. And he said stand by. I know he'd condemn that. And I don't know if that [2:15:19] was a miss, you know, a misspoke, but he was talking about having them stand down. He's more [2:15:23] than happy to condemn that. Joe Biden is continually able to talk about the Charlottesville hoax, [2:15:28] take a fragment of a quote. The media will run with it as though it's the gospel, [2:15:32] and pretend that it's true. And anyone who's reasonable, anyone who watches the entire thing [2:15:37] understands that not only did he disclaim before that- [2:15:39] Were you proud of your dad's performance tonight, Don? Don Jr.? [2:15:42] I'm always proud of his performance. I think he's fighting hard for the American [2:15:45] people. It's why he's gotten peace deals done in the Middle East, [2:15:48] the holy grail of geopolitical politics. Everyone talks about it. No one's actually [2:15:52] done it for Trump. It's why he's been able to pull us out of these endless wars, [2:15:55] because he doesn't just get steamrolled by everyone who wants to take advantage of him. [2:15:59] That's why Joe Biden has a 47-year record in D.C. where you can't name an accomplishment of his. [2:16:04] You can't. And that's a problem. If Joe Biden could have fixed anything, [2:16:08] Gail, by now, he would have done it. He would have done it. You don't wait 50 years to start. [2:16:12] But again, when you have a mainstream media that will be your boosters and your natural, [2:16:16] you know, it's not easy to compete. We're going to talk about policies [2:16:20] that affect Americans, and Don Trump Jr., thank you so much for joining us. We're going to have a [2:16:25] poll coming up. Please stay with us if you want to see who American people think won this debate. [2:16:29] And also in the interest of fairness, the Republican side provided Don Trump Jr. [2:16:34] The Democratic side provided the Democratic vice presidential candidate Kamala Harris. [2:16:39] We'll speak with her right after the break. [2:17:42] Because there's always something new under the sun on CBS Sunday Morning. [2:17:48] COVID has taken the lives of tens of thousands of Americans. [2:17:54] Rural areas like this here in Navajo Nation are especially hit hard. [2:17:57] 15 to 30 percent of our Navajo citizens don't have running water. [2:18:03] In any indigenous reservation, there is a shortage of physicians. [2:18:06] Native Americans are amongst the most vulnerable and hardest hit by COVID. [2:18:11] Yeah. The more we lose our elders to COVID-19, the more we lose our language and our way of life. [2:18:18] We need to bring awareness to the attention of Washington, D.C. and United States citizens, [2:18:24] that there is a need to focus on the first citizens of this country. [2:18:28] In 60 years, we went from about 100,000 factory workers to probably about 7,000. [2:18:41] Off in the distance, you can see some factors that are still humming, but most of them are just kind [2:18:48] of abandoned. The restaurant industry right now is one of the largest and fastest growing industries [2:18:54] in America, and yet it continues to be the absolute lowest paying employer in the United States. [2:19:02] Barely anybody's making enough to live. You're donating plasma to get by. [2:19:07] Uh-huh. It's literally a slave wage. I don't remember growing up like this. [2:19:12] My mom didn't have to go to food banks. It's pretty sad. [2:19:15] Even really young kids are feeling what's going on right now. [2:19:24] How should parents be talking to them about this whole question of racial justice? [2:19:28] How do we embrace this moment and turn it into real change? [2:19:32] What we really must focus on is moving from protesting to policy. [2:19:37] Join Gayle, Anthony, and Tony on CBS This Morning. [2:19:49] Anywhere. It's easy to find us, and it's free. [2:19:53] Download the CBS News app on your favorite devices. CBSN Los Angeles, streaming 24-7. [2:20:00] You can watch CBSN 24-7. [2:20:02] I've got an amazing story to share with you. [2:20:04] I understand you have some breaking news. [2:20:07] How does it all play out? [2:20:09] It's quite an adventure here at CBSN. [2:20:12] It's been a day. [2:20:13] To compare and contrast the candidates, and I think tonight provided a very clear contrast. [2:21:46] On the one hand, you had Joe Biden, who looked into the camera, who spoke to the American people [2:21:53] continuously, who understood who was important on that stage, which is American families. [2:21:58] And then you had Donald Trump, who really, I think, really denigrated the office of the [2:22:07] president of the United States, much as he has done over the course of the last four years. [2:22:10] Senator, you talked about the former vice president looking right into the camera, [2:22:15] but his answer on court packing, adding more justices to the court, just sounds like a straight [2:22:20] up dodge. [2:22:21] Why won't he talk about what he wants to do, what he thinks should happen? [2:22:26] Well, I think he's very clear, John, which is that he is focused, as we all should be, [2:22:32] on the next 35 days, and he is focused on, one, the process by which we're even having the [2:22:38] conversation about the United States Supreme Court. [2:22:41] We all just honored, and I was there while the great Ruth Bader Ginsburg was lying in state, [2:22:48] the first woman ever. [2:22:50] And now we see that the president and the Senate majority leader are pushing through [2:22:56] a nominee while Americans are voting. [2:22:58] We're not even talking about a debate, as has occurred in the past, about election year. [2:23:03] We're talking about literally during an election, almost a million people have voted, and they're [2:23:09] trying to ram this nominee through, clearly for political purposes. [2:23:13] So I think Joe was right to require the discussion to be focused on what is actually happening right [2:23:19] now, and the unfairness of it, and the hypocrisy with which it is being done. [2:23:23] Senator Kamala Harris, we are out of time, but thank you for joining us tonight, [2:23:29] and we look forward to speaking with you again. [2:23:31] Coming up next, who won the debate? We'll have the results from our CBS News instant poll. [2:23:36] Biggest names in politics. [2:23:48] Whoa, that's news. [2:23:49] Do you think that the president has the authority to send in active duty troops? [2:23:54] Face the questions you want answered. [2:23:56] Did the CDC let the American people down? [2:23:58] Tell me about the decision. When was it made? Who made it? [2:24:01] What is the next area that you are concerned about? [2:24:04] What does that mean for the risk of reinfection here in the United States? [2:24:09] You bring up a very good point, Margaret. [2:24:11] Margaret, that's a great question. [2:24:12] Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan on CBS. [2:24:16] Go to the ends of the earth. [2:24:18] Right now. [2:24:19] We got something crazy. [2:24:20] Ah, boom. [2:24:21] And reach for the stars. [2:24:23] Here we are. [2:24:24] Tom. [2:24:25] Yes, it's my comeback. [2:24:27] Hey, this is pretty fun. [2:24:28] But wait, there's more. [2:24:30] Experience thought-provoking. [2:24:32] Welcome to the idea of being a human being. [2:24:33] Innovative. [2:24:35] And truly original reporting. [2:24:37] Look through a telescope and go, wow. [2:24:39] Because there's always something new under the sun on CBS Sunday morning. [2:24:44] Well, we've got some instant analysis. [2:25:47] So let's bring in Anthony Salvato, our elections and surveys director. [2:25:51] And Anthony, the moment we've been waiting for, what have you learned? [2:25:53] Hey, Nora, instant poll of viewers across the country. [2:25:57] Look at this big number. [2:25:58] The tone of the debate, 83% thought it was negative. [2:26:02] As for who won, we asked that. [2:26:04] And it looks like the vote coming in. [2:26:06] 48-41 in favor of Joe Biden. [2:26:09] That's because most people came in having already made up their minds. [2:26:12] But look at this, Nora. [2:26:13] How did the debate make you feel? [2:26:15] 69% annoyed, way outpacing. [2:26:18] The 17% who said it made them feel informed. [2:26:21] Nora. [2:26:22] Anthony, thank you. [2:26:23] Yeah, many people were watching this debate with a pit in their stomach. [2:26:26] Two times, I think, Vice President Joe Biden called the president a clown [2:26:31] and said, will you just shut up? [2:26:34] Did this really, I asked this question, serve the voter in terms of [2:26:38] a real policy discussion about the issues? [2:26:40] And who did it ultimately benefit? [2:26:43] I don't know. [2:26:44] I mean, no, I don't think it served the voters in the sense that it was, [2:26:49] you know, the president was constantly interrupting. [2:26:52] And then it got into this bicker fest. [2:26:54] The 17% who said they felt informed are very optimistic [2:26:58] because I'm surprised the number's that high. [2:27:01] Part of the job of the president is to explain complicated things [2:27:04] that are happening and why Americans should follow them [2:27:06] and why there is hope for the future. [2:27:10] And we didn't get that. [2:27:11] But, Gail, did Biden come more prepared in some ways? [2:27:13] I mean, he said, this is not about my family or his family. [2:27:16] It's about your family to the American people. [2:27:18] I thought when he talked into the camera, he was very effective. [2:27:21] He did try to keep things on track. [2:27:22] He did try to say exactly what he wanted to say. [2:27:25] And I thought he made a connection with the American people. [2:27:27] I thought that was important to do tonight. [2:27:29] And I think your point earlier, which was, [2:27:31] to the extent there's a long fight about health care, [2:27:32] that benefits Joe Biden. [2:27:34] All right, our coverage of the presidential debate will continue [2:27:36] on our 24-hour streaming network, CBSN, [2:27:38] and there will be more on your local news on this CBS station [2:27:40] and tomorrow on CBS This Morning. [2:27:42] For Gayle King and John Dickerson, I'm Nora O'Donnell, CBS News, Washington. [2:27:56] So, I've got a question for you. [2:27:58] What if you could watch all the CCO news you want and see all your favorite CCOers [2:28:02] anytime, anywhere? [2:28:03] Well, you can. [2:28:04] Go ahead and grab your phone. [2:28:06] Come on, I know it's close by. [2:28:08] And go to WCCO.com or get the app. [2:28:11] And poof, there we are, right next to all those other networks you stream. [2:28:15] Bonus time, it's free. [2:28:16] You heard right. [2:28:17] Zip not a zilch. [2:28:19] Free. [2:28:19] CBSN Minnesota, built by CBS News, powered locally by WCCO. [2:28:25] Wherever you are, wherever you go, breaking Bay Area news, live. [2:28:31] This is CBSN Bay Area. [2:28:33] I'm Michelle Griego. [2:28:35] CBSN Bay Area, in your hand, on demand, and absolutely free. [2:28:41] Highly updated top local stories and weather where you live. [2:28:45] We spoke to black officers all around the country about the challenges that they face. [2:29:00] When you're not in uniform, are you ever concerned for your safety? [2:29:04] Out of uniform, I'm just another guy. [2:29:08] I'm a black man first. [2:29:09] CBSN Pittsburgh, your neighborhood news streaming 24-7. [2:29:16] Anytime, anywhere. [2:29:18] Find it on KDKA.com and on all your favorite devices. [2:29:22] Hi, everyone. [2:29:44] I'm Elaine Quijano. [2:29:45] Thanks for joining us for our special coverage of the first 2020 presidential debate. [2:29:50] President Trump and Joe Biden faced off in Cleveland Tuesday night. [2:29:54] For nearly an hour and a half, the candidates did not hold back. [2:29:57] The first question was about the president's Supreme Court nominee. [2:30:00] But the conversation quickly turned to a number of other issues, including health care, [2:30:05] abortion, and Bernie Sanders. [2:30:07] That was in the first 10 minutes. [2:30:09] If you tuned in, crosstalk might have been a main takeaway. [2:30:12] Moderator and Fox News host Chris Wallace stopped multiple times during the debate [2:30:16] to remind the candidates of the rules, saying at one point, [2:30:19] the American people would benefit from uninterrupted answers. [2:30:23] The candidates were asked about a range of critical issues impacting the country. [2:30:28] That included the coronavirus pandemic, the struggling economy, climate change, and racial injustice. [2:30:35] On that note, President Trump was asked if he would condemn white supremacists. [2:30:39] Instead, he directly addressed the far-right group, the Proud Boys, telling them to, quote, [2:30:45] stand back and stand by. [2:30:47] That and other moments are sure to make headlines. [2:30:49] Here's some of what you may have missed. [2:30:51] We won the election, and therefore we have the right to choose her. [2:30:58] And very few people knowingly would say otherwise. [2:31:01] The American people have a right to have a say in who the Supreme Court nominee is. [2:31:06] They're not going to get that chance now because we're in the middle of an election already. [2:31:09] It's China's fault. [2:31:10] It should have never happened. [2:31:12] They stopped it from going in, but it was China's fault. [2:31:15] You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap and get in your golf course [2:31:19] and go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats and Republicans and fund what [2:31:24] needs to be done now to save lives. [2:31:26] He will shut it down again. [2:31:27] He will destroy this country. [2:31:29] You take a look at what's happening at some of your Democrat-run states where they have these [2:31:33] tough shutdowns, and I'm telling you it's because they don't want to open it. [2:31:37] Mr. President, I'm asking you a question. [2:31:39] Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017? [2:31:46] Mr. Millions of dollars. [2:31:47] Mr. You paid millions of dollars? [2:31:49] Mr. Millions of dollars, yes. [2:31:49] Mr. Millions of dollars, and you'll get to see it, and you'll get to see it. [2:31:53] Mr. When? [2:31:53] Mr. He talks about these great trade deals. [2:31:56] You know, he talks about the art of the deal. [2:31:57] Mr. China has made, perfected the art of the steel. [2:31:59] Mr. China ate your lunch, Joe, and no wonder your son goes in and he takes out, [2:32:04] Mr. He takes out billions of dollars. [2:32:07] Mr. None of that is true. [2:32:08] Mr. Oh, really? [2:32:09] Mr. No, no. [2:32:09] Mr. President, Mr. President, please, ask the question. [2:32:12] Mr. Totally discredited. [2:32:13] Mr. You're going to have tape doing it. [2:32:15] Mr. You're going to have tape. [2:32:16] Mr. Not true. [2:32:16] Mr. Gentlemen, I hate to raise my voice. [2:32:19] Remember what those people look like coming out of the fields carrying torches, [2:32:23] their veins bulging, spewing, just spewing anti-Semitic bile, and they asked the [2:32:29] President what he thought. [2:32:29] He said there were very fine people on both sides. [2:32:33] No President has ever said anything like that. [2:32:36] Mr. You can't even say the word, law enforcement, [2:32:38] because if you say those words, you're going to lose all of your radical left supporters. [2:32:42] Mr. Look, what I support is the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face, [2:32:48] and I'm totally opposed to defunding the police officers. [2:32:52] Mr. Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups? [2:32:56] Mr. Sure. [2:32:57] Mr. I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing. [2:33:01] Mr. So what are you saying? [2:33:02] Mr. I'm willing to do anything. [2:33:04] I want to see peace. [2:33:05] Mr. Well, then do it, sir. [2:33:06] Mr. Say it. [2:33:06] Mr. Do it. [2:33:07] Mr. Say it. [2:33:07] Mr. Do you want to call them? [2:33:09] Mr. What do you want to call them? [2:33:10] Give me a name. [2:33:11] Mr. White supremacists and white supremacists and white supremacists and white supremacists. [2:33:16] Mr. Proud boys, stand back and stand by. [2:33:18] Mr. And will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory [2:33:21] until the election has been independently certified? [2:33:24] Mr. I'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, [2:33:30] because that's what has to happen. [2:33:32] Mr. Here's the deal. [2:33:32] The fact is, I will accept it, and he will too. [2:33:35] You know why? Because once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, [2:33:41] all the votes are counted, that will be the end of it. [2:33:43] Ms. Perfect. Okay. [2:33:46] For more, I'm joined by Caitlin Huey-Burns, Nicole Killian, and Major Garrett. [2:33:52] Caitlin is CBSN's political reporter and joins us from Cleveland. [2:33:56] Nicole is a CBS News Washington correspondent, and Major is CBS News Chief Washington correspondent. [2:34:04] They both join us from Washington. [2:34:07] All right. I feel like we can collectively exhale now. [2:34:12] So let me start with you, Caitlin, because you are there in Cleveland. [2:34:16] What were some of the biggest things that voters were looking for from both candidates tonight? [2:34:20] Well, heading into tonight, we know from our CBS News battleground tracker that most people have [2:34:28] made up their minds and were really tuning in, 73 percent tuning in to see their preferred candidate. [2:34:35] Only six percent were tuning in to have their vote be persuaded, that we're persuasive voters. [2:34:44] I can say that after going through text chains with various groups of friends and family, I think the [2:34:50] consensus was, if we can talk kind of emojis, the face palm emoji or the kind of cringe face emoji, I think, by and large, [2:34:59] a lot of people tuning in tonight were just disgusted by the whole process, couldn't hear the candidates. [2:35:06] I don't know which voters are served by what we saw tonight. [2:35:12] And if we're looking for answers about who won this debate or who benefited, I think people that may have tuned it off [2:35:21] or turned it off early may have been the winners of tonight. [2:35:25] You know, Major, I want to turn to you next because for people who aren't aware, you have studied Donald Trump, [2:35:35] the candidate, from the very beginning. [2:35:38] Sure. [2:35:39] You are someone who has attended numerous rallies, countless rallies. [2:35:43] You are also familiar, of course, with Joe Biden covering him during his time in the Senate as well as in the Obama administration. [2:35:51] So based on your observations and your experience covering both of these candidates, what is it that you actually saw [2:36:01] from both men on that stage tonight? [2:36:04] So for the president, he did not do a lot of formal debate prep in the sense of preparing for issues and then having rejoinders. [2:36:12] What he did prepare for was to try to force former Vice President Joe Biden to answer questions that former Vice President Biden [2:36:19] would prefer not to answer. Wedge him in on issues like, do you support the police? [2:36:24] Who is backing you among police? What would you do about the composition of the Supreme Court or the future of the filibuster? [2:36:32] Though Chris Wallace asked that question, President Trump wanted to try to force Joe Biden to deal with that. [2:36:37] And also, secondarily, constantly try to knock former Vice President Biden off his game by interjecting repeatedly. [2:36:44] That's not necessarily a way to make points, but it's a way to try to knock your opponent off of his game. [2:36:51] What I saw from Vice President Biden is something that is familiar in the inner circle of people who've worked for Joe Biden for three decades or more. [2:37:00] And if you'll allow me, Elaine, let me tell you a quick story about his Senate race in 1990, because it matters in this context. [2:37:06] It wasn't a close race, but it initially looked like it might be. [2:37:09] Jane Brady was a Republican running against Joe Biden. She later became attorney general in Delaware and sits on the bench there after that successful run as attorney general. [2:37:18] She was a newcomer, and the Biden campaign was somewhat afraid of debating her, thinking she might get some traction. [2:37:25] Remember, 1990 is after Joe Biden ran for the Democratic nomination in 1988, had the whole Neil Kinnick plagiarism scandal. [2:37:31] So there were things to pick at, and they were afraid of that. [2:37:34] So the preparation for that debate was, don't deal with her. [2:37:38] There was a libertarian candidate, Leo Rosenbaum. [2:37:40] So during that debate, what did Joe Biden do? [2:37:42] He talked only to that libertarian candidate and the moderator. [2:37:45] He tried his level best to ignore the agitator, the Republican challenger. [2:37:51] I thought I saw some of that tonight, where you saw Joe Biden talk to Chris Wallace and then talk to camera. [2:37:58] Try as best as he could not to let the president get in his head or knock him off his game. [2:38:03] Sometimes he wasn't successful at that. [2:38:05] But I know from the Biden debate prep, that's what they were trying to do. [2:38:09] Recreate that moment in 1990 where he didn't take the bait. [2:38:12] He wasn't knocked off his game, and he tried to stay as close to his agenda items and his approach as he possibly could. [2:38:18] And, Nicole, let me turn to you. [2:38:23] This debate, of course, took place against the backdrop in the midst of this coronavirus pandemic, [2:38:29] which has claimed the lives of more than 200,000 people in the United States. [2:38:35] I want to play a little bit of sound from former Vice President Joe Biden in response to a question about the president's handling of the pandemic. [2:38:46] Let's go ahead and take a listen. [2:38:47] This is Sot3, control room. [2:38:49] When he was presented with that number, he said it is what it is. [2:38:54] Well, it is what it is because you are who you are. [2:38:57] That's why it is. [2:38:58] The president has no plan. [2:39:01] He hasn't laid out anything. [2:39:03] He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. [2:39:08] He knew it was a deadly disease. [2:39:10] What did he do? [2:39:12] He's on tape. [2:39:12] He's acknowledging he knew it. [2:39:14] He said he didn't tell us or give people a warning of it because he didn't want to panic the American people. [2:39:20] You don't panic. [2:39:21] He panicked. [2:39:22] I laid out back in March exactly what we should be doing. [2:39:26] And I laid out again in July what we should be doing. [2:39:29] We should be providing all the protective gear. [2:39:32] We should be providing the money the House has passed in order to be able to go out and get people the help they need to keep their businesses open. [2:39:41] Open schools that cost a lot of money. [2:39:42] You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap and get in your golf course and go in the Oval Office and bring together the Democrats and Republicans and fund what needs to be done now to save lives. [2:39:54] Nicole, how did we see President Trump defend his response to the pandemic and how does that fit in with what we've heard from the president over the course of the pandemic? [2:40:07] Well, for one, we saw him pull out his mask, which he's been questioned about a lot as far as holding these campaign events without bringing all these supporters together, without taking the necessary protocols. [2:40:23] And he defended that by saying, you know, everything's been fine and, you know, nobody would come to see Joe Biden. [2:40:30] They're just coming to hear me. [2:40:32] But as far as the pandemic response, you know, certainly we heard the president make a defense that he has made time and again that, you know, he did act, that he did, you know, get masks and he got the gowns and they're working on therapeutics. [2:40:47] And, you know, he pretty much used the media as an out blaming media coverage as far as the one area where he felt that things had gone awry. [2:40:59] But, you know, Joe Biden certainly for a while now has been arguing that the president has failed when it comes to the pandemic. [2:41:07] And you saw him kind of make those arguments again in that soundbite. [2:41:12] I thought probably one of the most effective parts was when he talked about, you know, how many times have you seen an empty chair in your household because you've lost someone to COVID? [2:41:23] You know, really trying to put it in real terms that this disease is real and that he feels the president is not taking it seriously. [2:41:31] So from that standpoint, you know, to Major's point, as far as, you know, that debate prep, you kind of saw some of that coming into play as far as his response and kind of having those lines ready to go. [2:41:45] But, look, you know, as far as the tone, all I can say is my notes just had guns blazing. [2:41:50] The bottom line is that we're five weeks away. [2:41:53] There's a lot on the line. [2:41:54] And so I think that's why you saw, you know, such an aggressive tone by both candidates tonight, simply because there's not much time left. [2:42:06] Major, I know you have to get going in a few minutes. [2:42:09] So I want to ask you this next question here before you go. [2:42:11] So this debate came days after this New York Times report that alleges the president paid no income tax for 11 out of the 18 years that they reviewed. [2:42:22] How did we see? [2:42:24] Well, let's go ahead, control room. [2:42:25] First of all, play Sot 8, if we have that ready here, because this was a point in the debate where the president was asked directly about how much he has paid in federal income taxes. [2:42:36] Let's go ahead and listen to that. [2:42:37] No, Mr. President, I'm asking you a question. [2:42:47] Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017? [2:42:54] Millions of dollars. [2:42:55] You paid millions of dollars? [2:42:57] Millions of dollars. [2:42:57] So not 750. [2:42:58] Millions of dollars. [2:42:59] And you'll get to see it. [2:43:00] And you'll get to see it. [2:43:01] But let me just tell you, Chris, let me just tell you something. [2:43:04] That it was the tax laws. [2:43:06] I don't want to pay tax. [2:43:07] Before I came here, I was a private developer. [2:43:11] I was a private business people. [2:43:12] Like every other private person, unless they're stupid, they go through the laws, and that's what it is. [2:43:21] Major, what do you make of that answer and also this story? [2:43:24] Because at this point, as we've said over and over, people have, a lot of folks have their minds made up at this point. [2:43:31] What did you make of his answer and what have you made of his response to that story? [2:43:35] So the answer, I paid millions in taxes, has a ring of truth to it in the sense that the Trump organization paid millions of federal taxes for things related to its business efforts. [2:43:50] You pay payroll taxes and other things. [2:43:52] What the question was trying to drive at was what was the personal tax payment from President Trump. [2:44:00] And when he said millions of dollars, he was referring to the Trump organization, not to himself personally. [2:44:05] That's the way that his campaign and that's the way those who speak on his behalf financially have tried to characterize this. [2:44:11] The president has a golden opportunity to prove The New York Times to be completely wrong. [2:44:16] He called it fake news on Twitter. [2:44:18] Prove it. [2:44:18] How do you do that? [2:44:19] By releasing the tax documents and saying, see, you misread everything. [2:44:22] All this is false, but he won't do that. [2:44:24] He keeps promising he will, but the American people have already known and come to know that that promise continues and has continued since 2016 when he told Hillary Clinton, [2:44:34] I'll release my taxes against the will and the advice of my lawyers. [2:44:38] Never has done that. [2:44:39] So that is his response on the specific question. [2:44:43] The one aspect of The New York Times reporting, and CBS News hasn't seen the tax documents, we haven't verified it. [2:44:48] We're just going off the assertions made by The New York Times, is that the story of Donald Trump is one extensive business exaggeration. [2:44:58] That one of the reasons he did not pay a large amount of personal taxes is because he was constantly asserting through tax documents that were verified, apparently, that he lost so much money he didn't have a tax liability, which means he's a churning loser in business, not a churning winner. [2:45:16] For those who believe that mystique is important to their support for Donald Trump, that could be somewhat destabilizing. [2:45:24] Do I think that's going to be a wave-type process for Trump supporters? [2:45:28] I do not. [2:45:29] I believe that they have bought into this, have continued to buy into it, and are not going to take their cues from the investigative team at The New York Times. [2:45:37] And when they hear the president say, I paid millions of taxes, they'll say, he probably did, and if he didn't, just as he said in 2016, he was smart not to. [2:45:47] What I thought was a kind of a missed opportunity for Vice President Biden is to say, look, the Trump campaign has said I'm going to raise all these taxes. [2:45:56] You know what? [2:45:56] I am going to raise taxes on people who are wealthy, and I'm going to use that opportunity to rewrite the tax code to take away some of these provisions that are unnecessarily and unfairly generous to those of the upper income. [2:46:08] He could have easily said that and made a nice pivot off of his tax plan, but he did not. [2:46:13] I thought that was, for whatever reason, a missed opportunity for the Biden campaign. [2:46:17] All right, Major Garrett, I know you have to go. [2:46:21] Thank you so much for being with us at this late hour. [2:46:24] Caitlin Huey Burns, I want to turn back to you there in Cleveland. [2:46:27] Remind us of the backdrop, because we spoke to you many months ago about what Democratic primary voters had been looking for in a Democratic candidate. [2:46:40] In the lead up to this very moment, what is it that you heard over and over from them about the kinds of qualities that they were looking for as they were assessing the candidates? [2:46:51] Because I know we've talked about this a lot in the past. [2:46:56] This moment and these kinds of moments were precisely what people were factoring in to their assessment. [2:47:05] Absolutely. [2:47:06] When primary voters were sizing up all the candidates way back in 2019 and throughout the course of the primary, [2:47:12] they were imagining a night like tonight where the candidate that they would choose would have the chance to go toe-to-toe with Donald Trump. [2:47:19] What we also heard over the course of the campaign, and I went to lots and lots of Biden events, [2:47:25] followed him closely throughout the course of his primary campaign, he had these moments on the campaign trail. [2:47:31] They were few and far between, but he did have these moments where he was asked a question [2:47:36] and didn't like the question by a voter and actually took that voter on. [2:47:41] There was a moment in Iowa where I was at a small town hall when a voter stood up and started to make these allegations against Hunter Biden. [2:47:51] And the former vice president got really defensive and really stared him down. [2:47:55] And when I talked to voters after that event and at subsequent events around the state on that trip, [2:48:02] they said time and time again that that's the kind of Biden that they wanted to see, that they wanted to see this fighter, [2:48:09] that they wanted to see someone who could really go on the offense against Donald Trump. [2:48:14] Now, you can argue that the opportunities to do that were slimmer than you might have expected [2:48:21] because of the ways in which President Trump continued and made it a strategy to continue to interrupt [2:48:27] and kind of flood the zone with his own talk. [2:48:32] But I think there were opportunities for the former vice president to really punch back. [2:48:38] And I'm wondering if that will be, you know, part of the strategy for a second debate, [2:48:42] if there is a second debate after all of this. [2:48:44] The candidates, of course, have agreed to three debates. [2:48:47] That is something that we've heard from Democrats. [2:48:49] They want to see Biden punch back stronger. [2:48:54] And so that's kind of you saw moments of that from Biden tonight. [2:48:58] You saw some evidence of intense preparation. [2:49:02] He delivered lines that you could tell were intended to speak directly to the audience at home. [2:49:08] It was really interesting watching the body language of the two candidates [2:49:12] when Trump was mostly directing his comments to the former vice president. [2:49:17] Biden was directing his comments directly to the camera and to viewers at home. [2:49:23] The question is if they stuck around long enough to be able to listen to the whole thing. [2:49:29] But what these campaigns want at the end of the day is clips of this that are disseminated [2:49:35] across social media and internalized in kind of these bite-sized moments. [2:49:40] And that is certainly a strategy by both campaigns. [2:49:43] So speaking of clips, Control Room, I want to get ready if we have it. [2:49:49] Sot 16 here and ask Nicole about it. [2:49:52] This question that the president was asked, Nicole, at one point, if he would condemn white supremacists. [2:49:59] And the answer certainly reverberated on social media as he said it. [2:50:06] Let's go ahead and play now for the viewers who may have missed it, what the president's response was. [2:50:14] What are you saying? [2:50:16] I'm willing to do anything. [2:50:17] I want to see peace. [2:50:18] Then do it, sir. [2:50:19] Say it. [2:50:19] Do it. [2:50:20] Say it. [2:50:21] Do you want to call him? [2:50:22] What do you want to call him? [2:50:23] Give me a name. [2:50:23] Give me a name. [2:50:24] White supremacists and white supremacists. [2:50:25] Who would you like me to condemn? [2:50:26] White supremacists and white supremacists. [2:50:26] White supremacists and white supremacists. [2:50:27] Proud boys, stand back and stand by. [2:50:30] But I'll tell you what. [2:50:31] I'll tell you what. [2:50:33] Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left. [2:50:35] Because this is not a right wing problem. [2:50:41] So, Nicole, as someone who's covered and covers the president, what's your assessment of that response? [2:50:48] Because we could hear the president there bring up the name of the Proud Boys, which is an extremist, considered an extremist organization. [2:50:56] Well, I thought it was interesting. [2:51:00] Obviously, right before we had this show, obviously, we had some debate analysis on our broader network. [2:51:08] And I know we had an opportunity to ask Donald Trump Jr. about it. [2:51:12] I believe Norah O'Donnell and John Dickerson did. [2:51:14] And so what he seemed to suggest was that his father may have misspoke or he wasn't exactly sure what his father meant. [2:51:22] And so, really, I think the only way to know what he meant is to ask him directly, which I'm sure he will be asked about, you know, if not tonight, certainly tomorrow. [2:51:31] But that being said, it does go back to the original premise of the question or how that segment and conversation started, which went back to Charlottesville and that moment where the president said there were very fine people on both sides. [2:51:48] And so, you know, Joe Biden went back to what he said time and again, as far as that was a reason for why he got into this race and really trying to make the argument that, you know, no president would say there are fine people on both sides. [2:52:03] When you had white supremacists at, you know, in Charlottesville several years ago and the vice, former vice president, you know, bringing back some of those images that were very difficult to watch at that time. [2:52:16] And so it goes back to his argument that he believes that the president is trying to send these dog whistles to various groups that are out there. [2:52:27] Again, you know, whether or not that was a direct appeal, again, I think it's just something that we would have to put to the president and put to the White House and put to the campaign. [2:52:38] But as I mentioned, as far as the president's son's response tonight, he seemed to suggest that perhaps the president misspoke. [2:52:47] All right. Caitlin Huey Burns and Nicole Killian, a lot to sort through tonight. [2:52:52] Thank you both so much for helping us get through at least some of it. [2:52:56] I really appreciate it. Thanks. [2:53:00] And the latest CBS News Battleground tracker polls show how Americans are responding to the first presidential debate. [2:53:07] CBS News Elections and Surveys Director Anthony Salvato joins me now. [2:53:11] Hi there, Anthony. Good to see you. [2:53:13] So according to the viewers that you have been in touch with, what do they think in terms of who won this first debate? [2:53:22] Well, let me show you this first big number that jumped out at all of us, Elaine. [2:53:26] We asked about the tone of the debate and look at this, 83 percent felt the tone was negative. [2:53:33] OK, so that's what really came across. And then to answer your question, who won? [2:53:39] We follow that up. It looks very much like the vote, 48, 41, Joe Biden, you know, and really what's happening here is that we knew that people were coming in having already made up their minds. [2:53:51] We knew when we talked to these people in advance of the debate that they were watching to see how well their candidate did, almost in a rooting sense. [2:53:59] So maybe not a surprise that then it breaks the belt about the way the national vote does. [2:54:04] But it's really that affect that struck me. [2:54:07] I mean, look at this. How did the debate make you feel? [2:54:10] And 69 percent said annoyed, way more than said entertained. [2:54:17] And look at down here, this number for informed, if ostensibly the debates are supposed to teach us about the candidates. [2:54:25] Well, only 17 percent said that it did that. [2:54:30] Yeah. You know, I think it was John Dickerson who said during the network coverage that that seemed high to him. [2:54:37] Right. I'm going to have to run some cross tags and see who that is. [2:54:40] Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a look at those numbers more closely. [2:54:45] All right. Did the debate make watchers more likely to consider one candidate over the other, Anthony? [2:54:51] Well, let's take a look at how this moved things, or should I say how it didn't move views of the candidates. [2:54:58] OK. Candidate qualities for Donald Trump. [2:55:00] Look at this. Pre-debate that he cares about people like you, 46 and afterwards, 46. [2:55:05] Right. Didn't move much. Really no movement on whether people thought he was honest and trustworthy. [2:55:09] Really no movement on whether people thought he had the stamina for the job. [2:55:14] All things we asked about, waiting for movement. [2:55:17] Sometimes in debates, even if it doesn't move vote, people change their opinions of the characteristics [2:55:21] of the candidate. Not so much here. [2:55:23] And I'll do the same thing for you with Joe Biden. [2:55:26] Does he care about people like you? Well, 52 percent said yes coming in. [2:55:29] 55, not much movement. And same deal on honest and trustworthy and stamina for the job. [2:55:35] So all in all, very locked in. People not feeling like they got a lot out of it and not a lot of movement on views of the candidates. [2:55:44] So two more. So we'll see what happens. [2:55:47] And, you know, very quickly, Anthony, before we let you go, some viewers might be wondering, [2:55:52] how are you able to get these numbers so quickly following the debate? [2:55:56] What's the process? [2:55:58] It's a great question. [2:55:59] So we interview people in our polling and we ask them if they're planning to watch the debate. [2:56:04] If they are, then we tell them, OK, we would like to give you a survey right after the debate. [2:56:11] And we do that with a nationally representative sample of watchers so that it looks like all the people nationwide who are planning to watch the debate. [2:56:20] And then we instantly contact them right after it's done. [2:56:24] And they can do it electronically. They get sent an email. [2:56:27] They get reminded to take it. [2:56:29] And then we process that very quickly and then try and put it out as an instant reaction by 11 o'clock. [2:56:36] It takes a big team of people, our partners at YouGov, all of whom work really hard on this to put it together. [2:56:45] All right. Well, annoyed. That's my takeaway from your poll tonight. [2:56:50] Anthony Salvato, it is never annoying to have you, though. [2:56:53] Thank you so much, Anthony. [2:56:54] Thank you, Elaine. [2:56:54] I really appreciate it. [2:56:57] And a reminder, our debate coverage will continue on Wednesday, starting at 9 a.m. right here on CBSN. [2:57:04] And if you missed the first presidential debate or an episode of Red and Blue, you can catch up and stream any of our earlier clips on the CBS News website. [2:57:14] Just head to cbsnews.com slash redandblue. [2:57:17] And we are going to take a quick break, but we've got the rest of your day's news ahead. [2:57:23] Stay with us. You're streaming CBSN. [2:57:25] Go to the ends of the earth. [2:57:34] Right now. [2:57:35] We got something crazy. [2:57:37] And reach for the stars. [2:57:39] Here we are. [2:57:40] Tom. [2:57:41] Yes, it's my comeback. [2:57:43] Hey, this is pretty fun. [2:57:44] But wait, there's more. [2:57:46] Experience thought-provoking. [2:57:48] Multiple to the idea of being a human being. [2:57:49] Innovative. [2:57:50] And truly original reporting. [2:57:53] Look through a telescope and go, wow. [2:57:55] Because there's always something new under the sun on CBS Sunday morning. [2:58:03] COVID has taken the lives of tens of thousands of Americans. [2:58:06] Rural areas like this here on Navajo Nation are especially hit hard. [2:58:10] 15 to 30% of our Navajo citizens don't have running water. [2:58:16] In any indigenous reservation, there is a shortage of physicians. [2:58:19] Native Americans are amongst the most vulnerable and hardest hit by COVID. [2:58:23] Yeah. [2:58:24] The more we lose our elders to COVID-19, the more we lose our language and our way of life. [2:58:29] We need to bring awareness to the attention of Washington, D.C. and United States citizens that [2:58:37] have more than one [2:58:47] The longer it is the days of COVID-19 but it can be too helpful about watching. [2:58:51] And then go, that includes your need to make sure that we hope we've got to end the time behind the Yoshi's football system.