Troy Baker on becoming Indiana Jones — BBC News

[0:00] I mean, you said with this project, your success almost worked against you. [0:05] Because I believe, you know, Todd Howard wasn't sure with, you know, such a recognisable voice. [0:10] Wasn't sure is a very kind way to put it. [0:12] Flat said no. [0:14] Rolled his eyes is my favorite part. [0:18] Had run-ins with these guys before. [0:32] Trust me, it ain't a walk in the park. [0:35] Well, let's talk about Indiana Jones. [0:37] Obviously, incredibly iconic role. [0:39] So what was it like stepping into that role and finding that voice? [0:44] Did that take quite a long time? [0:46] Was it an easy process? [0:47] No, it was an easy at all. [0:49] One of the most terrifying, most challenging jobs I've ever had. [0:53] And I think that, you know, people have asked me, what was your process like of getting ready? [0:56] I was like, well, that didn't serve me. [0:58] Or at least not completely. [0:59] Because I've talked about this a lot. [1:02] And I will continue to do so because it's a fun story. [1:05] I love talking about my failure. [1:06] Wake up every morning and I would watch Raiders. [1:08] I would walk to set listening to John Williams' score. [1:12] If we were going to do a scene with Gina, I was listening to Marion's theme. [1:15] Because we didn't have Gordy's amazing score yet. [1:19] Or if we were doing something that was very mysterious and we were, you know, it was something [1:24] about, you know, finding treasure, I would listen to the map room cue from John Williams [1:29] and Raiders, which is one of my favorite scores of all time. [1:33] I would spend lunch watching Temple and I would go home and I would watch Last Crusade. [1:39] I would rinse and repeat. [1:40] It's a lot. [1:42] And I got so inundated and I thought that that was going to be my way. [1:46] I was like, I was going to carefully craft and calculate my way through this role. [1:50] And then I, it wasn't working and I was struggling and really kind of crushing, being crushed under [1:59] the weight of the character. [2:01] And then I remembered, there's a line in Raiders where Indy goes, I don't know, I'm making this [2:07] up as I go. [2:09] And I was like, oh no. [2:10] I can't approach this in that carefully crafted, calculating way. [2:17] I have to let it go. [2:18] And Tom Keegan, I had to give him a lot of credit. [2:21] He was our performance director and he goes, just trust that it'll be there. [2:26] Trust that you've done the work. [2:28] And also remember, there's a lot of people working on this game. [2:33] And I was like, it wasn't until I visited the team and actually got to sit with the [2:37] animation director and be able to kind of look in the pit and go, can I show you what [2:41] this is going to look like? [2:42] I'm like, oh, I have Harrison Ford's face. [2:45] Yeah. [2:46] That helps. [2:46] What was that like? [2:47] That was a big... [2:48] It was funny because, you know, we're not one-to-one. [2:52] He's way better looking. [2:53] And so there's times when you'll see a little bit more of my face, a little bit more of [2:59] Harrison Ford's face and kind of like, there's a new Indy because of how his face maps onto [3:06] mine. [3:07] It was pretty incredible to watch. [3:08] But it was realizing that I wasn't on that high wire alone. [3:12] I wasn't working without Annette. [3:13] That I had an incredible team of people back at the studio that were supporting me. [3:17] And once I did that, I let go and I make it up as I go. [3:21] Of course, it wasn't just the voice. [3:22] You're also doing all the kind of motion capture and everything. [3:24] So what was that process like as well? [3:27] I, you know, it's very... [3:29] I say this very trepidatiously. [3:30] There's not a silver bullet way to do cinematics in a video game. [3:34] Yeah. [3:34] Every team is different. [3:36] And I strongly encourage people to find their own way. [3:40] But specifically for the way that we needed to make this game, to have the look that people [3:47] recognize instantly, that kind of cinematography, like Doug Slocum shot Raiders for 81, we needed [3:55] to bring that aesthetic in there. [3:57] So it became very important that we shoot this as if we were shooting a movie. [4:02] I mean, you said with this project, your success almost worked against you. [4:07] Because I believe, you know, Todd Howard wasn't sure with, you know, such a recognizable voice. [4:13] Wasn't sure is a very kind way to put it. [4:15] Flat said no. [4:17] Rolled his eyes is my favorite part. [4:21] Him going, ah. [4:21] Haven't you spoken since about that? [4:23] No, yeah. [4:25] Look, I get it. [4:26] Yeah. [4:26] Um, I've had to be very, believe it or not, be very judicious about the opportunities that [4:34] come my way. [4:36] Um, and I originally said no to this as well. [4:38] Yeah. [4:38] So I think Todd and I were very lined up with that. [4:40] Todd was doing it out of, um, you know, being a very experienced and, uh, wise studio head [4:49] and going, I, I don't want that to be, can we not find someone who's new? [4:53] Is there some rock we haven't looked under? [4:55] Or don't just throw Troy Baker at it because we know that he can do it. [4:59] Right. [5:00] Isn't that a good thing there? [5:01] It is a good thing. [5:02] But I understand the position he was coming from. [5:04] The reason why I rejected it was out of fear. [5:06] Sure. [5:06] Because I was afraid I was going to fail. [5:08] And that is, as I've, as I've learned, is a huge insult to the people that are more experienced [5:16] than I am to go, we think you can do this. [5:19] And fortunately, Tom was willing to look past my arrogance and Todd, however, was willing [5:24] to look past my success and go, if we do this right, he's the right guy. [5:30] Are there any roles that you either weren't able to make happen or you did turn down that [5:37] you regret? [5:39] I don't regret anything. [5:42] There's definitely mistakes that I've made and I've learned from them. [5:45] I'm like, we'll never do that again. [5:47] But I think more often than not, those happen on the jobs that I got. [5:51] And there's a lot of mistakes. [5:53] Matter of fact, there was one day on Indiana Jones where, you know, when you're making a [5:57] game, it's not like, okay, here's our script and we're shooting this page and this is our [6:01] shot and this is our setup. [6:03] It's, okay, we know at some point we're going to do this. [6:07] And this is a scene that sets up that thing that we haven't built this yet. [6:11] So we're being asked to cross a bridge where you're laying the planks as you go. [6:16] There was a day on set where we hadn't quite figured out this thing, but I had to add my [6:23] specificity. [6:23] I had to, it was like, I'm looking at something that's not there. [6:27] And I remembered the story with Ian McKellen where he was like, I'm working with people [6:31] that aren't here. [6:32] And that can be very frustrating. [6:34] And I had that moment where I was like, this should have been figured out before now. [6:37] And I said those words and I remember looking over at Tom Keegan and he goes, well, that's [6:44] not helpful. [6:45] And I realized in that moment, I was like, man, I'm not the only one here. [6:50] It's not like everyone's not doing their best. [6:53] There's always a mistake that I made. [6:55] And I realized that's not the way that I want to work. [6:57] That's not the way that I should work. [6:59] And fortunately, they looked past that mistake and we found a better way to work. [7:04] You must get sent many projects, you know, big projects, small projects. [7:09] I know you've got a mouse, be either higher. [7:13] How do you choose what you're going to be and what kind of things do you look at before? [7:18] They chose me. [7:20] It's funny because very rare do I have a, like a game that I see a trailer for that later [7:28] they're like, hey, you want to be in this? [7:30] And that's starting to happen more and more. [7:32] I really, really like supporting indie game devs and any chance that I get to kind of [7:40] signal boost or leg up them, I do it. [7:42] And they came to me and they were like, do you think you would want to? [7:46] Like, I would love to. [7:47] Those are, those are my favorite opportunities is when people come to me and they go, I think, [7:52] I think you could do this. [7:54] And if I'm not, I learned this from Neil Druckmann, if my hands aren't shaking a little [7:58] bit, then I probably should say no. [8:01] But if my hands are shaking, I've got to say yes. [8:04] That's an interesting tell. [8:06] Now people will just be looking for when your hands are shaking. [8:09] I mean, you mentioned Neil there. [8:11] What was it like going back to work with Naughty Dog for Intergalactic, the Heretic Prophet? [8:16] It's family. [8:17] Yeah. [8:18] You know, they always impress me. [8:21] Like, it would be easy to rest on their laurels and to go, let's just keep cranking these out. [8:25] I think that Neil is one of the most intelligent, passionate, daring, brave people working in [8:34] this industry that is so hell-bent on making something of quality that he'll, you know, [8:43] he'll do anything to hold that standard. [8:45] And I got to say, Tati Gavriel is amazing. [8:51] And boy, does she just find herself at home right away. [8:55] She's incredible. [8:56] And I think that, you know, we'll see more of a game as we get closer. [9:01] I think it's the most ambitious thing that Naughty Dog has ever done. [9:04] Wow. [9:05] Yeah. [9:05] That's saying something. [9:06] Yeah, it is. [9:06] It really is. [9:07] AI, obviously, continuing topic each time, you know, we go about talking about these kind [9:13] of things. [9:14] But I wonder what your sort of insights are on it as an actor and how you feel about, [9:21] you know, previously, I know you were kind of quite for maybe very small studios, maybe [9:26] being able to use the tools. [9:29] I don't know if you've changed in that view at all or what you think about it now. [9:32] Yeah. [9:33] I think my arguments were mischaracterized maybe at first. [9:37] And here's what I know. [9:38] It's an incredibly nuanced conversation. [9:40] And we can sit here and talk about it all day. [9:41] We're not going to solve anything. [9:44] But what I have seen is that art is a human expression, period. [9:54] It's, we don't have to worry about the debate about whether or not it's, you know, AI is creating [9:59] art or not. [9:59] No, it's, relax. [10:01] It's not. [10:01] It can create content at a blindingly fast rate. [10:06] I understand the economic impact of that. [10:10] I'm going to leave that to the people that worry about that. [10:14] My focus is how do I create art? [10:18] And if we've established that art is a human expression, no one's coming for my job. [10:23] This is what I do. [10:24] Um, and there's a lot of people that can fight a multi-front battle and go, oh, um, I'm going [10:33] to, we're, I'm going to legislate over here and I'm going to lobby over here and I'm going [10:36] to also work over here. [10:38] I've learned this about me. [10:39] I learned this from work on, on Great Circle is that I have to remain focused on this. [10:46] If I look to my left or my right, I'm no longer serving the story. [10:49] I'm no longer serving the character. [10:51] So I focus on this and I trust the people who are making this thing that if there is [10:58] a tool that they can use that can, um, that can help the process, um, then maybe that's [11:07] a good tool. [11:07] If it's going to replace a process, sure. [11:10] It's going to replace a person. [11:11] Maybe not. [11:13] But my focus is always make the art. [11:15] And talking about making art, you've, you've said you're interested in making your own stories [11:19] as well, what might that look like? [11:23] Scary. [11:25] Um, it's so funny to talk to, you know, all of my, you know, friends on the studio side [11:30] and developers and go, what have you, have you not learned from us? [11:33] Don't do this. [11:34] Um, but I think that, you know, having worked in this industry now for 20 years, um, I've [11:42] learned, or over, I've learned so much from some of the greatest people. [11:47] Look who I've worked with. [11:48] It's insane to have access to these people and to be able to have this buffet of wisdom [11:54] to go do this and this and this and proliferate that, um, is exciting to me. [12:01] Um, so right now we're, you know, assembling this very, very small team of highly motivated [12:08] and talented people and beginning to see what that would look like. [12:13] What is, what is a story that I want to tell look like and who can I tell that with?