TOP MOMENTS FROM MARCO RUBIO'S TESTIMONY TO CONGRESS ON VENEZUELA

[0:00] I appreciate it. And I'll be brief in my opening statement so we can leave more time for questions. [0:03] I've submitted a written statement, but I'm not going to use it. [0:06] I'm just going to talk to you guys for a few minutes. [0:08] All right, here we go. [0:13] Suspend. You know the drill. Off to jail. [0:16] That's a one-year ban from the committee. [0:20] Anyone who is a persistent violator will be banned for three years. [0:24] So I don't know whether the guy falls in that category. Looks like it. [0:27] I hope after three years he'll find a more productive means of employment. [0:30] But, Secretary Rubio, we have two hearings a week, you know. [0:34] You seem to have a more robust following than most of our witnesses that come before us. [0:39] But anyway. [0:42] There'll be a couple more, so I just thank you for stopping the clock. [0:46] But I appreciate it. [0:47] So, and I know there's a lot of other topics you're going to ask me about, [0:51] so we can talk about those, including the ones that Senator Shaheen just outlined. [0:56] But let me just talk about Venezuela in particular. [0:58] Please. [0:59] I think we can talk if you want. [1:01] I'm sure you're quiet. [1:01] The questions will be about what happened before and led up to in the operation. [1:04] I want to focus my comments this morning on what happens now, moving forward, [1:08] because you're going to ask about the going back. [1:11] And let me just say this. [1:12] What is our goal going in? [1:13] We had in our hemisphere a regime operated by an indicted narco trafficker that became a base [1:21] of operation for virtually every competitor, adversary, and enemy in the world. [1:25] It was, for Iran, their primary spot of operation in the Western Hemisphere was Venezuela. [1:31] For Russia, their primary base of operation was Iran. [1:33] In the case of China, China was receiving oil at a huge, about $20 a barrel discount. [1:43] And it was, they weren't even paying money for it. [1:45] It was being used to pay down debt that they were owed. [1:47] This is the oil of the people of Venezuela, and it was being given to the Chinese as barter [1:52] at a 20% at a $20 discount per barrel in some cases. [1:56] And so you had basically three of our primary opponents in the world operating [2:01] from our hemisphere from that spot. [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:03] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:04] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:05] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:06] . [2:09] . [2:09] . [2:24] . . [2:24] . [2:52] . [2:54] . [2:54] . [2:54] . [2:54] . [2:54] . [2:54] . [2:54] represented in free and fair elections. By the way, you can have elections. You can have [2:58] elections all day. But if the opposition has no access to the media, if opposition candidates [3:04] are routinely dismissed and unable to be on the ballot because of government, those aren't [3:10] free and fair elections. That's the end state that we want. Free, fair, prosperous and friendly [3:15] Venezuela. We're not going to get there in three weeks. It's going to take some time. [3:19] And so objective number one was stability. In the aftermath of the removal of Maduro, [3:24] the concern was, what happens in Venezuela? Is there civil war? Do the different factions [3:27] start going at each other? Are a million people crossing the border into Colombia? All of [3:32] that has been avoided. And one of the primary ways that it has been avoided is the ability [3:36] to establish direct, honest, respectful, but very direct and honest conversations with [3:43] the people who today control the elements of that nation, meaning the law enforcement, [3:47] the government apparatus, et cetera. [3:49] And one of the tools that's available to us is the fact that we have sanctions on oil. [3:53] There is oil that [3:54] is sanctioned that cannot move from Venezuela because of our quarantine. And so what we [3:59] did is we entered into an arrangement with them. And the arrangement is this. On the [4:02] oil that is sanctioned and quarantined, we will allow you to move it to market. We will [4:06] allow you to move it to market at market prices, not at the discount China was getting. In [4:11] return, the funds from that will be deposited into an account that we will have oversight [4:16] over. And you will spend that money for the benefit of the Venezuelan people. Why was [4:21] that important? [4:22] Venezuela was running out of storage capacity. [4:24] They were producing oil. They were drilling oil. They had nowhere to put it. They had [4:28] nowhere to move it. And they were facing a fiscal crunch. They needed money in the immediacy [4:32] to fund the police officers, the sanitation workers, the daily operations of government. [4:36] And so we've been able to create a short-term mechanism. This is not going to be the permanent [4:39] mechanism. But this is a short-term mechanism in which the needs of the Venezuelan people [4:43] can be met through a process that we've created, where they will submit every month a budget [4:48] of this is what we need funded. We will provide for them at the front end what that money [4:51] cannot be used for. And they've been very cooperative in this. [4:54] In fact, they have pledged to use a substantial amount of those funds to purchase medicine [5:00] and equipment directly from the United States. In fact, one of the things they need is dilutant. [5:08] And that basically is the light crude that you need to mix with their heavy crude in [5:12] order for the oil to be able to be mixed and moved. They used to get 100 percent of that [5:16] from Russia. They are now getting 100 percent of that from the United States. So we're using [5:23] that short-term mechanism. [5:24] And that's what we're doing, both to stabilize the country but also to make sure that the [5:27] oil proceeds that are currently being generated through the licenses we'll now begin to issue [5:31] on the sanctioned oil goes to the benefit of the Venezuelan people, not to fund the [5:36] system that existed in the past. [5:38] The second is a period of recovery. And that is the phase in which you want to see a normalized [5:43] oil industry. Again, this is – look, we've got plenty of oil. There's plenty of oil [5:46] all over the world. Canada produces heavy crude. So it's not like Venezuela's oil [5:50] is unique in that regard, despite the fact they have the largest known reserves in the [5:53] world. [5:54] It's not irreplaceable. But we understand that that is the lifeline. Their natural resources [5:59] are going to allow Venezuela to be stable and prosperous moving forward. And so we created [6:03] the – what we hope to do is transition to a mechanism that allows that to be sold in [6:07] a normal way, a normal oil industry, not one dominated by cronies, not one dominated by [6:12] graft and corruption. [6:13] To that end, the authorities there deserve some credit. They have passed a new hydrocarbon [6:18] law that basically eradicates many of the Chavez-era restrictions on private investment [6:23] in the oil industry. [6:24] It probably doesn't go far enough to attract sufficient investment, but it's a big step [6:29] from where they were three weeks ago. So that's a major change. We can address some of the [6:33] other components, but I'll run out of time. But one of the parts of the transition phase [6:37] – or the recovery phase is beginning to create space for different voices inside of [6:43] Venezuelan politics to have an ability to speak out. Part of that is the release of [6:47] political prisoners. By some estimates, up to 2,000. They are releasing them. They are [6:51] releasing them probably slower than I would like them to, but they are releasing them. [6:52] But the reason is that they are released. That's one of the reasons why we are going to be [6:53] able to be able to get away from Venezuela, because that's what we're doing. We're going to [6:53] have to do a lot of work. But the reason why we're doing this is that we're going to be able to [6:53] but they are releasing them. [6:54] And in fact, you're starting to see some of the people [6:56] being released beginning to speak out [6:58] and participate in political life in the country. [7:00] We have a long ways to go. [7:01] Look, we can talk in more detail about all of these things. [7:04] Suffice it to say, I'm not here to claim to you [7:05] this is gonna be easy or simple. [7:07] I am saying that in three and a half, almost four weeks, [7:10] we are much further along on this project [7:12] than we thought we would be [7:13] given the complexities of it going into it. [7:15] And I recognize that it won't be easy. [7:17] I mean, look, at the end of the day, [7:18] we are dealing with people over there [7:19] that have spent most of their lives [7:21] living in a gangster paradise. [7:22] So it's not gonna be like from one day to the next, [7:25] we're gonna have this thing turn around overnight. [7:27] But I think we're making good and decent progress. [7:29] It is the best plan and we are certainly better off today [7:32] in Venezuela than we were four weeks ago. [7:35] And I think and hope and expect [7:37] that we'll be better off in three months, [7:38] in six months, in nine months than we would have been [7:40] had Maduro still been there. [7:42] So thank you. [7:43] Chairman, thank you, Secretary Rubio for being here. [7:46] So some of the comments from my colleagues [7:48] on the other side of the aisle [7:51] are difficult to square [7:52] with the record. [7:54] The goalposts didn't move, nor did Maduro change. [7:58] The only thing that changed was President Trump acted [8:01] on what members of both parties said needed to be happened [8:05] and it needed to happen. [8:07] And did so, by the way, with an operation [8:09] that will go down in history as one of the most impressive [8:12] and tactically proficient to be ever carried out. [8:16] So Secretary Rubio, I'd like to get your response [8:18] to a few yes or no questions. [8:19] I know that's typically not your nature, [8:21] but please bear with me here a moment, okay? [8:23] All right, let's hear them first. [8:24] I hate game shows. [8:28] Go ahead. [8:29] For years, the United States had a standing battery [8:32] on Nicholas Maduro, correct? [8:33] Have what, I'm sorry? [8:34] A standing bounty on Nicholas. [8:36] Oh, yes. [8:37] And this bounty was increased [8:39] by both the Biden and Trump administrations, correct? [8:41] Correct. [8:43] And despite that bounty, did Maduro remain in power? [8:46] Yes. [8:48] Did he continue to support drug traffickers? [8:50] Oh, yes. [8:51] Was Operation Absolute Resolve [8:55] a law enforcement operation supported by the military? [8:58] It was. [8:59] Did that operation successfully remove Maduro and his wife, [9:03] and they were taken into custody? [9:05] Yes. [9:05] Great questions. [9:06] Thanks. [9:07] Were any service members law enforcement officers [9:10] killed in that operation? [9:11] No. [9:13] Not any of ours. [9:14] None of ours, right. [9:15] Has there largely been a broad support [9:17] across Latin America for Maduro's removal? [9:20] Yes. [9:21] And is the United States better off [9:24] with Nicolas Maduro in custody? [9:27] Yes, and Venezuela too. [9:29] Right. [9:31] I realize that you'll hear [9:33] some confusing views during this hearing, [9:35] but I want to at least offer my personal congratulations [9:38] to you and everybody who helped carry this out, [9:40] because the world is better off without Nicolas Maduro. [9:44] A few weeks ago, you briefed the Senate [9:46] on your three-phase plan. [9:47] You've been talking about it here today [9:48] on stabilization, recovery, [9:50] and the transition in Venezuela. [9:53] Is there anything this Congress can do [9:55] to be helpful in executing on that plan? [9:58] There will be in time, there's no doubt about it. [10:00] On the stabilization front, [10:01] in order to stabilize it, for example, [10:03] we're gonna have to begin to provide [10:04] some licenses through OFAC. [10:06] So as an example, if a company wants to go down [10:09] and explore the opportunity to do some economic activity [10:13] in Venezuela, they will require a license [10:15] from Treasury to be able to do that. [10:17] And so that doesn't require congressional action, [10:19] but I wanted you to be aware of it [10:20] when you start to see some of these things. [10:21] Some of these are just exploratory. [10:23] The second is, I think in time, [10:25] look, Venezuela is a very wealthy country. [10:27] This is not a country that's going to require money [10:30] from the United States to rebuild, [10:31] to stabilize, to transition. [10:33] It really isn't. [10:33] It has the ability to be, [10:35] and it has been historically, [10:36] the wealthiest country in South America in many cases. [10:41] The problem is that the wealth of the country [10:43] was being stolen. [10:44] And so part of both the recovery and the transition phase [10:47] is ensuring that you leave in place a prosperous, [10:50] free, democratic, allied with the United States [10:53] and friendly, but also prosperous Venezuela, [10:55] where the resources of the country [10:57] are being utilized responsibly [11:00] and to the benefit of the people and their economy. [11:02] So in time, I imagine we will be coming back to you [11:05] with specific legislation that may be required [11:08] to assist in that function, [11:10] but we don't expect that this is going to require [11:12] any spending on our part. [11:13] On the contrary, unlike many of the other parts [11:15] of the world who've gotten involved, [11:17] Venezuela is, we're not spending any money [11:19] in Venezuela right now, [11:20] other than whatever it costs to stand up our embassy. [11:24] Let me switch gears on you a little bit. [11:25] One of the common criticisms after Maduro's capture [11:29] was that this would incentivize communist China [11:31] to take similar actions in Taiwan. [11:33] In my opinion, this couldn't be further from the truth. [11:36] For starters, communist China doesn't care [11:38] about international law or norms. [11:40] They've demonstrated that repeatedly. [11:41] Just ask the Philippines. [11:43] Nor does it believe in international law [11:45] even applies to Taiwan. [11:47] But most importantly, Xi Jinping's calculus [11:49] on whether to take kinetic action against Taiwan [11:51] rests solely on whether or not he believes [11:53] he will be successful or not. [11:54] In this sense, the tactical proficiency displayed [11:57] during Operation Absolute Resolve [11:59] may have actually given Xi more pause [12:01] in taking action in Taiwan. [12:05] Because despite its massive military buildup, [12:07] the PLA continues to lack the experience [12:09] so clearly on display that the United States demonstrated [12:13] in Maduro's capture. [12:15] And the PLA leaders that do have combat experience, [12:18] like General Zhang, just got purged, [12:21] or at least one of them did. [12:22] So Secretary Rubio, do you believe that the operation [12:25] to take Maduro into custody will have any impact [12:27] on communist China's actions or intentions toward Taiwan? [12:30] No. [12:31] The situation on Taiwan is a Xi legacy project [12:34] that he's made very clear that that's what he intends to do. [12:37] And that's going to be irrespective of anything [12:39] that happens in the world. [12:40] Your point, though, is well taken. [12:42] And that is the US in conducting this operation, [12:44] I think, was certainly startling to China, to Russia, to Iran, [12:47] to any adversary around the world. [12:49] Because the US is the only country in the world, [12:51] the only country in the world that [12:52] could have done this operation. [12:54] Mr. Chairman, if I could just real briefly, [12:58] I just mentioned General Zhang getting purged here. [13:00] He was obviously a very important official. [13:02] And China, can you share with us just your assessment [13:04] on what that means that she just purged one of these? [13:08] Well, this is, I think, part of a pattern we've seen [13:10] over the last few years, which is a purge of leaders [13:13] in their military. [13:13] They're spending a lot of money on their military. [13:15] And obviously, some of these guys are stealing that money. [13:17] And they're trying to address that. [13:19] So it's an issue internally in their system. [13:21] They're obviously not sharing with us or talking to us [13:23] in depth about any of that. [13:24] But it's certainly something we watch with interest. [13:27] Thank you. [13:29] I'm pleased that we are looking at a diplomatic [13:32] presence in Venezuela in the near future. [13:34] I think that's very important. [13:36] But the DEA has reportedly identified [13:39] Delcy Rodriguez as a significant actor in the drug trade. [13:43] Do you agree with that? [13:44] And if you do, how are we to assure the American people [13:50] that the money that's going to Venezuela [13:53] is not going to any of the cartels or drug running? [13:56] Yeah, and that, well, first of all, on the first point, [13:58] I would say she's not indicted the way Maduro and his wife [14:01] were. [14:01] I understand. [14:01] So I'm not going to speculate about it. [14:03] There are newspaper articles and what law enforcement [14:04] is working on. [14:05] If, in fact, there were such an investigation, [14:07] I mean, that's something that we would speculate on. [14:09] Suffice it to say that this was not a normal system. [14:12] We all should stipulate to that, OK? [14:15] That regime, as everyone understood, [14:17] was held together by corruption. [14:18] The glue that kept people together [14:19] was not loyalty to Maduro. [14:21] It was the fact that these five guys had five separate oil [14:23] fields that were assigned to them. [14:24] These people had drug routes. [14:25] No, I understand that. [14:26] But I'm not defending the regime. [14:29] In fact, I'm concerned that we haven't really [14:31] changed the regime enough. [14:33] And that America's dollars are still going to drug runners [14:38] and to significant organizations who we don't want to have [14:43] benefit from the funding that we're selling now of oil [14:48] and providing to the Venezuelan government. [14:49] Yeah, look, I acknowledge that we are dealing with, [14:52] I told you, with individuals that [14:53] have been involved in things that in our system [14:55] would not be acceptable, would not be acceptable to us [14:56] in the long term. [14:57] By no means is our policy to leave and place [14:59] something permanent that's as corrupt as you've described. [15:03] We are in the transition and stabilization phase. [15:06] We are just acknowledging reality. [15:07] And that is, you have to work with the people that [15:09] are in charge of the elements of government. [15:11] OK, but can you reassure people that money is not [15:14] going, continuing to go to the drug cartel? [15:17] Right, so that's the process that I outlined to you. [15:20] So on the sanctioned oil, the oil that requires US permission [15:23] to move, that oil, the proceeds of that oil, which, by the way, [15:27] is being sold at market price, not at the discount [15:29] Venezuela was being forced to sell, [15:31] is being deposited into an account that, ultimately, it's [15:33] going to be sold. [15:33] It will become a US Treasury blocked account here [15:35] in the United States. [15:37] We will, they will submit, we will, at the front end, [15:40] say this is what this money can be spent on, on these things. [15:43] We will submit to them, they will submit to us [15:46] a budget request. [15:47] We want to use this money for these things. [15:49] And as part, and part of the proceeds [15:51] will go to fund a audit process to make sure that that's [15:54] how the money is being spent. [15:55] So that's how we intend to handle those funds [15:57] in the short term. [15:58] There's an actual audit process that's been set up? [16:01] Who is responsible? [16:01] It will be set up. [16:02] And we have a couple options. [16:03] You know, one option is the Ex-Im Bank. [16:06] They have expertise as bankers in being [16:07] able to do some of that option. [16:10] There may be some others in place. [16:11] We haven't finalized what that audit process would be. [16:14] We've only made one payment. [16:15] And that payment we did, and retrospectively, [16:17] will be audited. [16:18] But it was important we made that payment, [16:19] because they had to meet payroll. [16:21] They had to keep sanitation workers, police officers, [16:23] government workers on staff. [16:25] It was a $300 million payment. [16:27] Right. [16:28] So it's been reported that the oil sold for $500 million, [16:31] that $300 million went to Venezuelan. [16:33] And government, what happened to the other $200 million? [16:35] It's still sitting in the account, [16:37] is my understanding at this time. [16:38] The account in Qatar? [16:40] Well, the account, yes. [16:41] But that will ultimately be trans. [16:42] That's a short-term account. [16:43] Ultimately, it will be a US Treasury-blocked account [16:46] in the United States. [16:47] And will it also be audited? [16:48] Correct. [16:49] Well, the audit will be on the expenditures. [16:51] At the front end, we'll tell them, [16:53] this is what the money can be spent on. [16:54] Again, I'm not talking about all the other revenues [16:56] that Venezuelan government may have. [16:58] We're talking about the revenues from the sanctioned oil. [17:00] At the front end, we will say, this [17:02] is what the allowable expenses are. [17:03] And then they will agree to fund, [17:05] as part of the overall cost, they [17:07] will pay for and fund an audit system acceptable to us [17:10] to ensure that that's how the money was spent. [17:12] And can you report to this committee [17:14] once that audit system is set up? [17:15] Oh, absolutely. [17:16] Yeah. [17:17] I'd like to change the topic in my short time [17:20] that I have left. [17:21] Because when you were a member of this committee, [17:23] you authored legislation to prevent President Trump [17:26] from unilaterally leaving NATO, you and Senator Kaine. [17:30] Do you still believe that the US benefits from NATO? [17:33] We do. [17:33] I mean, the problem with NATO needs [17:35] to be reimagined as well, in terms of the obligations. [17:38] And this is not new to this president. [17:39] Multiple presidents have complained about it. [17:41] I agree. [17:41] I think this president just complains about it [17:43] louder than other presidents. [17:44] Well, I'm just trying to get a clear answer on where [17:48] this administration stands relative to NATO. [17:50] Because it's been a very fuzzy message over the last year. [17:56] And do you agree that we're stronger in confronting China [17:59] when we do so with like-minded partners, and that China is [18:02] still. [18:03] The number one threat that we face in the United States. [18:06] Yeah, but our like-minded partners [18:07] have to have capability. [18:08] And that's been part of the problem, [18:09] is the erosion in European defense capabilities. [18:12] Because they've taken vast amount of the monies [18:14] that these are rich countries. [18:15] And because of the NATO umbrella, [18:17] they gave them the flexibility to spend [18:18] a tremendous amount of their revenues on social programs [18:21] and not on defense. [18:22] Now, maybe that trend line will begin to change. [18:24] Well, it's already begun to change, frankly. [18:26] And thanks. [18:27] And I think the president deserves credit [18:29] for that, for the fact that there is now [18:30] a commitment for 5% of GDP. [18:33] And that's a lot of GDP to be spent on defense. [18:37] But part of that strength also comes not just [18:41] from having the mechanism the military might, [18:45] but it also comes from the unity with our allies. [18:48] And to the extent to which that unity is undermined, [18:50] like the talk about Greenland and antagonizing Denmark, [18:54] then it undermines NATO's ability. [18:56] And the only people who are excited about that [18:58] are Vladimir Putin and President Xi. [19:00] Yeah. [19:01] Well, I would say that I think our alliances in NATO, [19:03] ultimately, are something that's going to work out. [19:04] Our partners understand the importance [19:05] of the US presence in NATO. [19:06] Without the US, there is no NATO. [19:08] And we understand that in order for NATO to be stronger, [19:11] our partners need to be stronger. [19:13] And one of the things we've explained to our allies in NATO [19:15] is the United States is not simply focused on Europe. [19:18] We also have defense needs in the Western hemisphere. [19:20] We have defense needs in the Indo-Pacific. [19:22] And it will require us. [19:23] We may be the richest country in the world, [19:25] but we don't have unlimited resources. [19:27] And as we reassign these resources- [19:29] Which is exactly why we want to have allies and partners [19:31] to help us as we're looking at conflicts [19:33] around the world. [19:34] And when we antagonize our allies and partners, [19:37] and when we send Canada to do a trade deal with China [19:40] instead of coming to New Hampshire or the United States, [19:43] it weakens our ability to confront our adversaries. [19:46] Yeah. [19:47] But our allies have to be two things. [19:48] They have to be willing to step up, [19:50] but they also have to be capable of stepping up. [19:52] And frankly, many of them have not. [19:53] I mean, Spain is still not doing the 5%. [19:55] I mean, there are countries that are still not doing. [19:57] And in fact, Mark Rutte yesterday pointed out [19:59] that without the United States, the countries of Europe [20:02] would have to spend 10% of their jobs [20:03] and 10% of their GDP for the next 20 years [20:06] to be able to make up the whole. [20:07] So I do think there needs to be a rebalancing, [20:09] and hopefully we'll have cooperation. [20:10] I think we will. [20:11] Rutte has done a great job of managing all of that. [20:13] And I'm not arguing that point with you. [20:15] As I said, I agree with what the president has asked [20:19] of our European allies. [20:20] What I'm arguing with you about is that his rhetoric [20:23] is undermining NATO and our partnerships with our allies. [20:27] And that's a problem. [20:29] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [20:30] Thank you, Senator Shaheen. [20:31] Senator Ricketts. [20:32] He said after that meeting, [20:33] we're talking to her, and maybe we [20:36] can get her involved in some way. [20:37] I'd love to be able to do that. [20:39] Maybe we can do that. [20:40] We'll set the terms for this Nobel Prize winner [20:44] having a leadership role. [20:45] Last question is this. [20:46] You talked about the speech in Davos. [20:48] Here's something the president said in Davos. [20:52] I'm helping NATO until the last few days [20:54] when I told them about Iceland. [20:55] They loved me. [20:58] They're not here for us on Iceland. [20:59] That I can tell you. [21:00] Our stock market took the first dip yesterday [21:02] because of Iceland. [21:03] So Iceland is already, [21:05] cost us a lot of money. [21:08] President repeatedly mistook Iceland for Greenland, right? [21:12] We're not mad at Iceland. [21:13] They haven't cost us any money. [21:14] The president just mistook the two countries [21:16] for each other, correct? [21:17] Yeah, he meant to say Greenland, [21:19] but I think we're all familiar with presidents [21:20] that have verbal stumbles. [21:23] We've had presidents like that before. [21:24] Some made a lot more than this one. [21:25] Nice try. [21:26] Thanks. [21:27] All right, thank you. [21:28] I thought he did well. [21:29] Let's see. [21:30] We got Senator Lee. [21:31] Senator Paul. [21:35] Our founders debate. [21:36] I don't know. [21:37] In the thousands for certain. [21:39] And look. [21:40] I think regimes, including that one in Iran, [21:43] have learned that when you start shooting people [21:45] in the head with snipers, it's effective. [21:48] I mean, it works. [21:49] And they've done it, and it's horrifying. [21:50] And that's what we've seen. [21:52] That regime is probably weaker than it has ever been. [21:54] And the core problem they face, [21:56] unlike the protests you saw in the past [21:58] on some other topics, [21:59] is that they don't have a way to address [22:02] the core complaints of the protesters, [22:03] which is that their economy's in collapse. [22:05] And the reason why there's economies in collapse [22:07] is because they spend all their money [22:09] and all their resources [22:10] building weapons and sponsoring terrorist groups [22:13] around the world, instead of reinvesting it back [22:15] into their society. [22:16] And as a result, have taken on massive global sanctions, [22:18] which has isolated their economy and their country. [22:21] And so that's what the Iranian people are demanding, [22:23] is that they stop doing that and start caring about them [22:26] and get these sanctions off them. [22:27] And this regime is unwilling to do it. [22:29] So the core challenge is the protests may have ebbed, [22:33] but they will spark up again in the future. [22:35] Because this regime, unless they are willing to change [22:37] and or leave, have no way of addressing the legitimate, [22:40] legitimate, and the legitimate, and the legitimate, [22:40] and consistent complaints of the people of Iran [22:43] who deserve better. [22:44] Very good. Thank you. [22:45] Thank you. [22:46] Senator Pack, the three points you touched upon, [22:47] consultation, NATO, Greenland, alliances in Greenland. [22:50] Let me tell them to consult. [22:51] Look, this has been a point of tension, [22:53] not just in this administration and Congress, [22:55] but in multiple administrations. [22:56] As you rightly pointed out, [22:57] I was a big fan of consultation [23:00] when I was sitting over there. [23:01] Now, you know, it's a different job, different time. [23:03] But that's not necessarily the point. [23:05] This is a very unique situation that we faced here. [23:08] The fact of the matter is that our mission [23:10] and the one you were briefed on and talked about, [23:12] that mission remains ongoing. [23:13] And that is the counter-narcotic mission [23:14] that we continue to carry out in the, [23:16] as controversial as it may be, [23:17] you may not all be fans of it, obviously, [23:20] but it is happening in the Eastern Pacific. [23:21] And it is also happening in the Caribbean basin. [23:24] The problem is, or the good news is, [23:26] there aren't a lot of drug boats moving [23:27] in the Caribbean basin anymore. [23:28] And that's what we had briefed Congress upon. [23:30] This specific mission that you've talked about, [23:33] one of the reasons why you rehearsed it [23:34] is to see if it's even feasible [23:36] to basically go to the president and say, [23:37] is this something that's even an option on the table? [23:39] The truth of the matter, [23:40] is that this mission could not have been briefed to Congress [23:44] because it wasn't even in the realm of possible [23:47] until very late in December, [23:49] when all of our efforts to negotiate with Maduro had failed [23:52] and the president was finally presented these options [23:54] and made these decisions. [23:55] It was also a trigger-based operation. [23:57] It may never have happened. [23:58] It required a number of factors to all align [24:01] at the right place at the right time in a very limited window. [24:04] And it wasn't even clear if it was ever gonna be possible. [24:07] There's also the aspect which I do not control, [24:09] and that is deference [24:10] to the Department of War on operational security. [24:13] Despite the fact that we had kept this quite constrained, [24:15] the truth of the matter is that this was leaked. [24:17] We now know it was leaked by a contractor, [24:20] the Department of War, [24:21] that had it been published, [24:23] would have endangered the lives of people [24:25] and or would have probably canceled the ability [24:27] to carry out the mission. [24:28] So this is a real tension [24:30] and one that I'm doing the best I can to try to manage, [24:32] within the constraints of two things, [24:34] operational security and also decisions being made. [24:38] We have, [24:39] there are multiple contingencies for events all over the world, [24:41] including some that none of us think [24:42] were ever gonna come to fruition. [24:44] And in this particular case, [24:46] one of the reasons why you rehearse these things in advance [24:48] is to know whether it's even possible, [24:49] is this even doable? [24:50] And what are the risks associated with doing? [24:52] So you can present options to the president [24:54] who ultimately makes these decisions. [24:56] In the case of re-imagining NATO, [24:57] it most certainly has to be re-imagined. [24:59] And the reason why it has to be re-imagined [25:00] is not because its purpose is re-imagined, [25:02] its capabilities have to be re-imagined. [25:04] Let me give you as a point of example. [25:06] There's a lot of talk about security guarantees. [25:08] And it's something that, [25:09] there's general agreement about now [25:10] with the case of Ukraine. [25:11] But those security guarantees basically involve [25:14] the deployment of a handful of European troops, [25:17] primarily French in the UK, [25:19] and then a US backstop. [25:21] But in fact, the security guarantee is the US backstop. [25:24] It is not the, [25:25] and I'm not diminishing the fact that some countries [25:28] in Europe are willing to place troops in a post-war Ukraine. [25:31] What I'm pointing out is, [25:32] that is irrelevant without the US backstop. [25:35] And so, and the reason why you need [25:37] such a strong US backstop is because our allies [25:40] and our partners have not invested enough [25:42] in their own defense capabilities [25:43] over the last 20 or 30 years. [25:45] Now, hopefully that's going to change. [25:46] Hopefully that is changing. [25:48] And in some cases, and in some particular countries, [25:50] it's already changed. [25:51] But this is a fact that we cannot ignore. [25:53] NATO is going to be stronger if our allies are more capable. [25:57] Especially, and here's the reality, [25:58] whether we want to accept it or not, [25:59] we have interests all over the world. [26:01] We have interests in the Middle East, [26:02] we have interests in the Western Hemisphere, [26:04] and we most certainly have interests in the Indo-Pacific. [26:06] A number of you have already pointed out [26:08] that China is the chief challenge. [26:09] We can't have the same soldiers or the same ships [26:13] in both Europe and in the Indo-Pacific. [26:15] We have to pick. [26:17] No matter how many ships we build, [26:18] no matter how many capabilities we grow, [26:20] we're going to have to make these adjustments. [26:22] And the stronger our partners are in NATO, [26:24] the more flexibility the United States will have [26:26] to secure our interests in different parts of the world. [26:28] That's not an abandonment in NATO. [26:30] That is a reality of the 21st century [26:33] and the world that's changing now. [26:34] In the case of Greenland, [26:35] I'll say we're in a good place right now. [26:37] We had excellent meetings with the General Secretary [26:39] of Secretary General of NATO. [26:42] In fact, even as I speak to you now, [26:43] there'll be some technical level meetings between us [26:46] and our partners in Greenland and Denmark on this issue. [26:50] And I think we have in place a process [26:51] that's going to bring us to a good outcome for everybody. [26:55] The President's interest on Greenland has been clear. [26:57] It's a national security interest. [26:58] It's a longstanding interest that predate this administration. [27:01] It's one that our allies acknowledge is real. [27:04] I think we're going to get something positive done. [27:06] We're going to begin that process [27:07] in a very professional, straightforward way. [27:09] It begins today and it'll be a regular process. [27:12] We're going to try to do it in a way that isn't [27:14] like a media circus every time these conversations happen [27:16] because we think that creates more flexibility on both sides [27:19] to arrive at a positive outcome. [27:21] And I think we're going to get there. [27:23] And I thought it was noteworthy and important [27:24] that despite your concerns, the President at his speech [27:27] in Davos made very clear that the United States was not going [27:30] to use force or military force in Greenland. [27:33] So I think we're going to wind up in a good place. [27:35] We've got a little bit of work to do, but I think we're going [27:37] to wind up in a good place, and I think you'll hear the same [27:39] from our colleagues in Europe very shortly. [27:41] Mr. Secretary, the Gang of Eight has never leaked. [27:44] It is critical that you consult with Congress. [27:47] For us to be safe, our allies have to trust us, [27:50] and for this committee to do our work, we have to trust you. [27:53] Let's work together to restore that. [27:54] Senator McCormick. [27:56] Mr. Secretary, thank you.