THIS POLITICAL INTERVIEW IS EXPLOSIVE — OBINNA SHOW LIVE SPECIAL - Gov James Orengo

[0:04] It's very accurate, it's too simple. [0:07] Check it, check it, guys, guys. [0:09] Deal water, man, deal water. [0:13] Obina Show Live. [0:15] To you live from Obina TV Studios. [0:20] Alright, so welcome back. [0:33] This is part two. [0:35] I'm a part one, side B. [0:39] Mika makaset. [0:40] Unaskia, then unatoa, then unatani. [0:42] Side ingine unaweka pale. [0:44] We apologize for the other part. [0:46] So we've had a couple of internet issues. [0:49] Ime kwa serious, there's a lot of lag, lip sync, nini. [0:53] So we've decided to do what we do best. [0:54] So we're still gonna record it and then we're gonna air it, okay? [0:57] So at least so we can get the juice very well. [1:00] So we're talking about the times at UON, [1:02] the mandamanos at UON, leadership at the school. [1:06] And I was talking about a couple of images that I have [1:09] that I want to share with the governor. [1:11] So atuambie kama nakumbuka hizi images ilikuwa za wapi. [1:15] So, David, you have image number one? [1:16] Oh, that is at the law courts in Nairobi. [1:23] At that time I was already president of the Students' Union. [1:26] Some students had been arrested and charged with, you know, [1:33] taking part in an illegal procession. [1:36] Okay. [1:36] And I was in court. [1:38] I was not a practicing lawyer by then, [1:42] but I went there to... [1:44] In solidarity. [1:45] In solidarity. [1:46] We had even hired lawyers at the time. [1:49] Wewe. [1:50] Yeah. [1:50] And there were 59 students who had been arrested, yeah. [1:56] Walitolewa? [1:57] Walitolewa. [1:58] Okay. [1:59] Yeah. [2:00] But they were fined. [2:01] I think it was about... [2:02] It was fined about a thousand shillings, [2:06] which was a lot of money. [2:09] Walizirais? [2:10] Walizirais? [2:10] We raised the money. [2:12] We raised the money. [2:13] Not just us, our colleagues in Dar eslam. [2:17] Oh. [2:18] The guild in Kampala, the University of Makariri, the guild. [2:26] There was a guild? [2:27] Yeah, the guild. [2:28] You know, Anyang was president of the guild, [2:30] not at my time, [2:32] but the students' union was known... [2:36] At the University of Makariri, [2:38] it was known as the guild. [2:40] Then there was DUSO, [2:41] which was Dar eslam University's students' organization. [2:45] Okay. [2:46] Both of them raised money. [2:47] We also raised money. [2:48] And we were able to free our comrades. [2:51] Okay. [2:52] Yeah, from prison. [2:52] Okay. [2:53] Yeah, from prison. [2:56] Afro. [2:57] Picture number two. [3:06] Picture number two. [3:07] That was in London. [3:09] Where? [3:10] Yeah. [3:10] Okay, what was happening in London? [3:11] You can see the winter cold. [3:13] Baridi imekunyorosha kidogo. [3:15] Yeah, kidogo. [3:16] What was happening in London? [3:17] I went for a conference in London, [3:21] and that conference had people in politics from all over Africa. [3:29] Okay. [3:29] Some in government, [3:30] some in opposition, [3:32] some outside the mainstream or political organizations in their countries. [3:39] Okay. [3:39] Yeah. [3:40] Okay. [3:41] Nice. [3:41] Because the picture number one, [3:45] you didn't have glasses. [3:46] I didn't have, yeah. [3:47] Picture number two, glasses. [3:49] Picture number three. [3:51] That was one of the many times I was arrested and charged. [3:57] This is the main law courts. [3:59] And I can tell you, in my life, [4:02] Yeah. [4:02] I have been arrested and prosecuted many times. [4:07] Zina pita 20? [4:09] Just 20. [4:10] I can tell you, [4:11] there is no major town in this country [4:13] where I have not been arrested, [4:17] dumped in a police station, [4:19] and then taken to court. [4:22] So, umelala kwa sel sana? [4:24] Sana, sana. [4:26] Kwa hizi mambo ya... [4:27] Mandamanu, mandamanu. [4:28] I see mandamanu pekake. [4:30] Hatako matamshi. [4:32] Matamshi? [4:33] Yeah. [4:33] Like saying things? [4:34] Yeah, saying things. [4:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [4:37] You would angry some people? [4:39] Yeah, yeah. [4:39] You know, there was a time when I was in Homer Bay, [4:45] and I said, [4:47] President Moy was not active during the Lancaster negotiations, [4:54] that he was just a passenger. [4:56] So I was arrested for having called President Moy a passenger. [5:04] Most of the time, it was for really flimsy stuff. [5:07] Do you regret any of the things that you said then and landed your problem? [5:14] No, no, no, I never regret it. [5:16] But you come to know many things. [5:18] I didn't know there was a cell in the central bank, in Kisumu. [5:23] I slept there for two nights. [5:25] I slept there for two nights. [5:25] What was the central bank? [5:28] Central bank. [5:28] Kuna sell ndani? [5:29] Yeah, huko ndani. [5:30] So vault. [5:32] Yeah. [5:33] So I rested in Sierra, taken to Kisumu, slept there for two days. [5:37] Why? [5:39] Why did they take you there? [5:41] They were keeping me for a while. [5:45] The final destination was Kisi. [5:49] I was taken to Kisi and charged with sedition. [5:54] And in Kisi, there was a light turnout by the people in Kisi. [5:58] So, again, I was moved to the police station in Ogembo. [6:05] I think it's about 20 miles from Kisi. [6:08] So, you know, that's part of my life. [6:13] Parof. [6:14] Okay. [6:16] Ile story ya Nyayo House? [6:17] Kuna sell ndani? [6:19] Nyayo House? [6:20] Kuna mshala loko? [6:21] Kuna mshala loko. [6:22] Wiki Mwaja. [6:25] So it's true. [6:26] Like, for me, the most terrible was when I was in exile in Tanzania. [6:33] One night, there was a raid in which I was arrested. [6:39] And bundled together with Ochuka and his colleagues who were in exile in Tanzania. [6:49] And we were taken to committee. [6:52] We spent about three months in committee. [6:55] And then spent six months in Naibasha. [7:00] Solitary confinement. [7:03] And when they wanted you to say the things that they wanted you to say, [7:08] they would fill the cell with water, ankle deep, [7:13] and you're thrown there naked for days until you're prepared to talk. [7:22] And that was a very nice experience. [7:25] You know, like, you enter that cell full of water. [7:31] You say, I can't sit on this water. [7:35] So you stand. [7:35] You stand. [7:37] After 12 hours, you can't continue standing. [7:41] Then you sit. [7:42] Then you say, I will hold myself until they open up the cell. [7:53] Unfortunately, when they want to put you in the cell, sometimes they give you water. [7:57] You want water to drink. [7:59] In fact, that particular time I was given them a bottle of soda to drink. [8:04] Imagining in Naibasha. [8:08] So after some time, you want to pee. [8:13] Then you're swimming pool. [8:14] Yeah, swimming pool. [8:16] So you're sitting on your pee. [8:17] Yeah. [8:18] And then you begin to swell your feet. [8:21] Your body is like white as ash or gray as ash until you knock the door and say, [8:35] take me out. [8:36] I'll tell you what you want me to say. [8:41] Or they watch you. [8:43] If they find, you know, you've fallen sick and it's like you're in a terrible situation, [8:53] then they can get you out and offer some kind of treatment. [8:58] So what did they want you guys to say? [9:00] Well, you know, at that time it was about the coup. [9:02] You know, remember Ochuka and what was the other name? [9:10] And there were five, six of them. [9:15] And I was in that, I was brought back with that group. [9:19] So they demanded to know from me my participation in the coup in 19... [9:26] But how did you end up with the Ochuka squad? [9:28] Well, how I ended up with Ochuka is that, you know, they had been, [9:34] there had been proceedings to try to bring them back to Kenya. [9:39] And their course in Tanzania said no. [9:43] These are political, is a political case. [9:48] So they would not be brought back. [9:51] Then when I was in the slum, I ended up going to Zimbabwe [9:55] and made contact with people in Zimbabwe, some embassies there, [10:01] to find out if it was possible for Ochuka and Tim to leave to Tanzania, [10:08] to a third country, which has succeeded, actually. [10:13] I managed to get some countries which were willing to accept them. [10:19] So I went back to Tanzania to give them the good news. [10:23] And then I was caught up. [10:25] Katiu ambarone. [10:26] Yeah, Katiu ambarone. [10:27] But what brought the problem was that there was a group of Tanzanians [10:32] who had engaged in a mutiny. [10:37] So Tanzania, which was resisting, returning handover. [10:43] Sama ndo hau. [10:44] Sasa. [10:46] Mwamba ya miti ni katukea. [10:48] Au. [10:48] Kwa kasema, we will exchange this team. [10:52] Songa naeo. [10:53] Yeah. [10:54] Oh, wow. [10:56] Okay. [10:57] Now, all of these things are happening. [11:00] You're being arrested, left, right, and center. [11:02] You're being taken to committee. [11:03] You're taken here. [11:04] You're taken there. [11:05] Were you guys being tortured, apart from the water thing? [11:08] Kupigwa? [11:09] Unapigwa. [11:10] Unapigwa. [11:11] Yeah. [11:11] In the committee, it was okay. [11:15] Yeah. [11:15] But in Abasha, we were given quite a number of lashes here and there. [11:22] Okay. [11:22] And the rods, you know, your head, your legs, your knees. [11:29] Not a nice experience. [11:31] Okay. [11:33] I still bear some of those cows. [11:35] Aye. [11:36] Lennox, let's end the life. [11:38] That is an illegal life. [11:41] End the life. [11:42] Because we are recording the show. [11:45] Yes. [11:45] And the life. [11:47] Yes. [11:48] So, Nick, help us with this microphone. [11:52] Help us with this microphone for now. [11:54] No, no, no. [11:54] He'll assist with it. [11:56] Mm-hmm. [11:56] Yeah. [12:01] Okay. [12:03] So, this is happening. [12:05] You're still participating actively. [12:08] Ilioi fika pointu kasema mimi, nimechoka na kuteswa, nimechoka na kupigwa, nimechoka na kushikwa. [12:13] Nataka sasa, let me relax and just enjoy life. [12:16] No, I never really got to that situation. [12:21] You never have. [12:21] Because every time you thought of, you know, quitting, there would be a new situation. [12:29] There would be new friends. [12:30] There would be new comrades. [12:35] And you say, you know, it's no time to give up. [12:39] Okay. [12:40] Have you ever enjoyed life? [12:42] A lot. [12:44] Wow. [12:44] Okay. [12:47] Apart from dancing to Prince Enda. [12:51] Apart from Majawa. [12:54] Because if someone looks at your life, niku shikuwa kupigwa, kufanywa ni, umayikatu, like, about, let's say, a month. [13:00] A whole month, there's no mandamano, there's no campaign, there's nothing. [13:06] Like, you're just chilling, holiday, mini. [13:09] Yeah, I've been able to go on holidays with my family in Mombasa. [13:16] Okay. [13:17] And other places in the country and outside the country. [13:20] So you've, you've, like, lived. [13:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [13:24] What is your epitome of enjoying life? [13:27] I'm a living. [13:29] What is that one thing when you do, you're like, ah, this one now. [13:31] Like, for me right now, it's playing golf. [13:33] When I'm playing golf, I'm like, woo! [13:35] I'm alive! [13:37] It's very, very difficult for me to say a single thing. [13:42] But I think when I'm with family out there in a relaxed atmosphere, it may be a holiday. [13:51] Yeah. [13:51] It may be even at home in the rural area. [13:54] Yeah. [13:55] And I just have time with them. [13:58] Okay. [13:58] And, uh, and reading a book if I... [14:03] With your phone not ringing? [14:04] Yeah, with my phone not ringing, I try... [14:07] Inachanga kuring? [14:08] Inachanga kuring, when I decide that I have serious business. [14:13] Ah. [14:14] Yeah. [14:15] Okay. [14:16] Yeah. [14:16] Like, like, I, I, I like reading, but I must confess in the last three years, I've fallen short. [14:29] Of the glory of books. [14:33] Ujapada time ya kukati ina kitabu tu gizu. [14:35] Ina jaribu. [14:35] Ujapada time ya kubani mambu ya kazi. [14:38] Yeah. [14:39] Eh, lazima usome reports na mambu kama hayo. [14:44] Okay. [14:44] And occasionally, if I have to go to court. [14:48] Okay. [14:48] Uh, so say you lazima usome. [14:50] Lazima usome. [14:51] Yeah. [14:52] Other things like, do you swim? [14:54] Do you, do you cook? [14:55] Are you a good cook? [14:56] Ah, I, I, I... [14:57] Do you sleep a lot? [14:58] I, I, I, I can't, uh, I can't swim. [15:03] You know, kakwa pula mungu muna pika pika maji. [15:06] Eh. [15:06] Eh. [15:06] Eh. [15:07] Eh. [15:07] I, I try to learn to swim, but, uh, you know, learning how to swim at the shallow end with [15:14] a kid, uh, safe zone, safe zone. [15:16] I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. [15:18] I enjoy watching football. [15:19] Ah, okay. [15:20] That's how I, I've loved watching these great teams in the world, uh, and, uh, I used to [15:29] do drama. [15:30] I have acted in plays. [15:32] Oh. [15:33] In my early life. [15:34] Okay. [15:35] Even in Madagascar when I was there, we produced, uh, uh, a play, uh, the, the students, uh, [15:42] who were there from, uh, I think we were from Kenya, Uganda. [15:46] Okay. [15:47] And one or two from Tanzania, uh, we, we produced a play, which was watched by the student community [15:54] of the university in, in, in, in Tananari. [15:57] Ah. [15:58] Oh, okay. [15:59] So, acting, yeah. [16:00] Mm. [16:01] Okay. [16:02] You know, most people, when we see season politicians, there's always this story for politics [16:08] is what keeps you guys alive. [16:09] Is, is, is that true? [16:11] Like, Bila politics, muko zile. [16:13] No. [16:14] Nini. [16:15] Withdrawal symptoms. [16:16] Withdrawal symptoms. [16:17] Like, like, like, for example, I, I enjoy being in a courtroom. [16:20] Ah, more than being in a campaign trail. [16:24] I enjoy both. [16:25] The best, the best, the best, the best. [16:27] The best. [16:28] Something has to teach the skill. [16:29] I can say the best. [16:30] I can really talk about the best. [16:32] Yeah. [16:33] Yeah. [16:34] I've had my very good moments. [16:35] Yeah. [16:36] In, in the courts of law and my very good moments in, in politics. [16:40] In politics. [16:41] Yeah. [16:44] Okay. [16:45] You have been elected and reelected and reelected as a member of parliament. [16:50] Yes. [16:51] Um, why, why do you think that is? [16:53] Because you started, you are very young, you're 29 when you got your first time. [16:57] Yeah, I was 27. [16:58] 27? [16:59] Yes. [17:00] Yes. [17:01] I think they reelected you. [17:02] Well, I, I think it's for what we, I stood for. [17:06] Okay. [17:07] Uh, we didn't have a lot of money at that time. [17:09] In fact, when I first ran for parliament, I didn't have a house in the constituency or [17:16] anywhere that I could call my own. [17:18] No. [17:19] I didn't have a car. [17:20] Uh, but because of my activism, activism in university politics, and also working closely [17:31] with, uh, Jaramogi because we had known him, we had come to know him, to know him very [17:37] well, uh, during our student, uh, activism, I had some kind of soft landing. [17:46] Oh. [17:47] With my first attempt. [17:48] Okay. [17:49] But, uh, campaigning at that time was not as expensive as it is. [17:52] Yeah. [17:53] Right now it's about money. [17:54] Yeah. [17:55] Yeah. [17:56] Yeah. [17:57] Yeah. [17:58] Although I, I think I, I, I've been lucky. [17:59] Um, I have spent money, but I don't think I, I've spent the kind of money other people [18:05] spend. [18:06] Other people spend. [18:07] Yeah. [18:08] There was this story that, was that story true? [18:10] That you never, you really even campaign like properly. [18:13] Mm-hmm. [18:14] You'd come like maybe a week. [18:15] Mm-hmm. [18:16] Mm-hmm. [18:17] Tell guys, I'm, I'm re-running for this position. [18:18] But, minikona baba, fanyeni mamwenyu. [18:21] And then they just do. [18:22] Yeah. [18:24] And it wasn't just that. [18:25] I think, um, I had very good engagement with, with the people in my politics. [18:31] I would try to, uh, deal with their problems. [18:36] Uh, get to promote what was in their interest. [18:41] Okay. [18:42] And being close to them. [18:44] Uh, there's a time when I used to go to chief, uh, chiefs barazas. [18:48] Yeah. [18:49] All over the constituency. [18:50] Uh, the chiefs barazas would be like, uh, on a Monday. [18:56] And, uh, most of the sub chiefs barazas were on a Friday. [19:00] So, I would have a timetable going round. [19:04] Okay. [19:05] The good thing at that time, if you were fighting against the government of the day. [19:11] Done. [19:13] Uh, 70%. [19:15] Yeah. [19:16] And we were in a team with the Koigis, with the Anjonas, with the Umashengu Machofi. [19:23] Yeah. [19:24] Yeah, we had a very vibrant group in parliament. [19:27] Okay. [19:28] Mm-hmm. [19:29] There's a picture I have here. [19:30] Uh, picture number, let me find the number. [19:33] Picture number six. [19:34] Mm-hmm. [19:35] The video picture number six. [19:36] This one. [19:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [19:38] That is the day when we went to Kamkunji. [19:41] Oh, this one, you're already a member of parliament. [19:43] Yes, uh, I was already a member of parliament. [19:46] Okay. [19:47] Uh, this is when we were partying, we were fighting for multi-party. [19:53] Okay. [19:54] Uh, we had been on that pickup with Mulero Shikuku. [19:57] Yeah. [19:58] And, uh, the police were on the chase. [20:01] This is around Kariobangi. [20:03] You could see my hands up. [20:04] Yeah. [20:05] Because the police had drawn their guns. [20:06] Oh. [20:07] Yeah. [20:08] So. [20:09] Yeah. [20:10] He had moments when it was that, like that also. [20:12] Yeah. [20:13] Yeah. [20:14] Who is he? [20:15] Yeah. [20:16] Shikuku. [20:17] Oh. [20:18] That's Martin Shikuku. [20:19] Oh, okay. [20:20] Yeah. [20:21] Yeah. [20:22] Yeah. [20:23] Yeah. [20:24] Yeah. [20:25] Yeah. [20:26] Yeah. [20:27] Yeah. [20:28] Yeah. [20:29] Yeah. [20:30] Yeah. [20:31] Yeah. [20:32] That's what I was driven in to the police headquarters, Nairobi area police headquarters. [20:37] Yeah. [20:38] Yeah. [20:39] Yeah. [20:40] Yeah. [20:42] I had the worst ride in a, in a car. [20:43] Yeah. [20:44] Yeah. [20:45] With my head on the floor. [20:46] Uh, and, uh, police . [20:49] Uh, then, uh, we were taken to various police stations. [20:57] Me, I was taken to Nairobi area. [20:59] Uh, and, uh, later in the afternoon at around four, we were taken to Wilson airport, put in [21:09] a, in a police aircraft, uh, and, uh, in the aircraft was Masinde Muleiro. [21:15] We dropped him in Kitale. [21:18] Uh, in, uh, uh, we also had Shikuku and Shamala. [21:24] Okay. [21:26] And they were dropped in Kakabenga. [21:27] And me was dropped in Kisum. [21:29] Were they being dropped? [21:30] On a Saturday. [21:32] We were being taken home as it were. [21:34] Oh. [21:35] To be prosecuted in the, in, in your own area. [21:41] Jurisdiction. [21:42] Which, which, which, uh, it was like extending activism to the rural areas. [21:49] Uh, because. [21:50] Uh, because. [21:51] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [21:52] We were, we were, we were like champions when I was taken to court in Siaia. [21:56] Uh, the whole town was out. [21:58] Yeah. [21:59] Which is a good thing. [22:00] Yeah, yeah. [22:01] And the same with Shikuku in Kakabenga. [22:03] Muleiro, luckily, he was taken to court in the evening. [22:07] We didn't spend a day, uh, in the south. [22:11] But Shikuku, myself, and Shamala were taken to court on a Monday. [22:16] Uh, those were not the only arrests. [22:18] Yes. [22:19] Many people were arrested. [22:20] Yeah, yeah. [22:21] So when you're taken there, you had released over. [22:25] Uh, um, uh, uh, uh... [22:26] Manyara, Mwite, they all have been arrested. [22:29] When I was taken to court, they didn't give me a bail or bond. [22:35] So I spent, I think, about a month in Kodiaga prison. [22:41] You've also been in Kodiaga? [22:42] Yeah. [22:45] Who's this guy? [22:48] Committee, Naivasha, maximum. [22:51] Yeah, maximum. [22:52] Kodiaga, Nyayo House. [22:57] And mostly police cells in Thika, in Vihiga, in Kakamega. [23:03] No police cells hizu zote? [23:04] Yeah. [23:04] But this is a prison-prison. [23:05] A prison hizu hine. [23:07] Hi. [23:08] Well, okay. [23:10] People who don't even know. [23:12] Mwikana mutu wakodiaga hapa. [23:15] Then there's this photo. [23:17] Photo number eight, Davido. [23:19] I can't see it properly. [23:20] Oh, let me watch a new. [23:25] Oh, there you go. [23:30] It was like a cutout of a newspaper. [23:33] Yeah, yeah. [23:33] Something about umoi. [23:34] Yeah, this was in a law court. [23:38] I could, this possibly was, no, this was Nairobi. [23:45] Kidula was the chief magistrate. [23:49] Okay. [23:49] That lady called Kidula. [23:51] I'm the chief magistrate, yeah. [23:53] Yeah. [23:53] I don't know. [23:54] Is there, is there, if you are to be arrested again now and you are to be taken to any prison [24:13] now, which one would you prefer? [24:14] None. [24:17] And any prison is bad. [24:22] Even when you are under house arrest, [24:26] you know, it is not very comfortable. [24:29] I saw Jeramugi, [24:30] what a normal terms, [24:31] a place under house arrest. [24:34] Nyumba kama hii? [24:35] Yeah, kama hii. [24:36] Uwezi kutoka. [24:37] Inja kompa unama kwa gate? [24:39] Uwezi kutoka kwa gate. [24:41] Kwa nyumbu, [24:41] unazo kutoka. [24:42] Uwezi kutoka kwa gate is a kutoka [24:46] except family. [24:48] Yeah. [24:49] So even being held prisoner [24:52] in your own house [24:53] is tricky. [24:54] It's not a good thing. [24:55] It's not a good thing. [24:56] Okay. [24:58] So you did three terms [25:01] as a member of parliament. [25:02] Did you deliver [25:04] whatever you promised [25:06] your constituents? [25:09] I think I did. [25:11] At that time, [25:12] basically, [25:14] we were fighting [25:15] for change [25:17] in terms of [25:19] multi-party, [25:21] multi-partism. [25:23] It was a constant campaign. [25:25] And we went around the country [25:27] as a parliamentary group there, [25:30] Seven Bearded Sisters, [25:32] as we were called, [25:33] and later on [25:34] as Young Tax. [25:36] Young Tax, [25:36] basically, [25:37] I think it was only me [25:38] who was a parliamentarian [25:41] at the time. [25:44] So we felt [25:45] fulfilled [25:47] finally [25:48] when Kenya [25:49] became a multi-party [25:50] state. [25:52] Okay. [25:52] So that is what [25:53] you basically achieved [25:55] on your three terms? [25:56] Fighting for human rights. [25:57] Okay. [25:59] Our contributions [26:00] in parliament [26:00] in a one-party setting [26:03] I think [26:05] was very vigorous. [26:07] And [26:08] some people suffered [26:10] more than [26:11] probably I did [26:12] because some people [26:14] as members of parliament [26:15] were detained. [26:16] Okay. [26:16] One of the most [26:17] brilliant lawyers [26:18] I've known, [26:19] Serone, [26:20] was detained. [26:24] So was Shikuku [26:26] and others. [26:26] Okay. [26:27] And you ran with, [26:29] when this was happening, [26:30] you vied with [26:31] Moe's party? [26:33] During the one party, [26:34] yeah, one party era. [26:35] Wait, because there was [26:36] no option? [26:36] There was no option. [26:37] I was like, [26:38] wait a minute, [26:39] how would you? [26:42] Oh, okay. [26:42] Did you ever meet Moe? [26:45] We still have [26:46] kind of parliamentary [26:47] groups, meetings. [26:48] No, not the groups, [26:49] like one-on-one, [26:50] like sit aside, [26:51] hijana, [26:52] no, no, no, [26:54] not one-on-one. [26:56] One-on-one [26:57] I had, [27:00] when we had a meeting [27:02] with him on Jaromogi, [27:03] and then the one-on-one [27:06] was when Moe [27:07] was in hospital. [27:09] You went to see me [27:10] at Nairobi hospital. [27:12] So I went to see him [27:13] and I was, [27:15] I was, [27:16] I was surprised [27:18] when he ordered [27:19] everybody to leave [27:20] the room. [27:21] So I had a little [27:22] chat with him. [27:24] And then we had [27:27] also a little joke [27:28] one day during [27:30] the 4th of July [27:33] celebration [27:34] of the American [27:35] embassy here. [27:38] At that time [27:39] he was no longer [27:39] president. [27:42] And at that time [27:43] I'd also, [27:44] I'd lost my seat [27:45] as a member [27:46] of parliament. [27:47] So I agreed [27:48] to demand [27:49] to greet him. [27:50] So I told him, [27:51] both of us [27:52] are not in [27:53] I can check [27:56] alafa [27:57] kauliza [27:58] you know [28:00] his personal [28:00] assistant [28:01] who at one time [28:04] was also [28:05] state house [28:05] controller, [28:06] I forget the name, [28:07] to take my number. [28:09] And he said [28:10] he would call me [28:11] but he never did. [28:15] Surprise! [28:16] Surprise! [28:17] Pio lukuna [28:18] goja kupigie? [28:19] Nah, [28:20] sikuwa [28:20] nadhany [28:21] yako mba [28:22] tapiga. [28:22] I think [28:24] it was [28:25] probably the right [28:26] thing for him [28:27] to do [28:27] when you're [28:28] talking to somebody. [28:29] Yes. [28:30] Chukua [28:30] nabayake [28:33] yakoza [28:33] ama mbulize [28:35] Instagram [28:35] and [28:36] tuta [28:37] slide [28:37] kwa diem. [28:39] Wale duu [28:40] kwa Instagram [28:41] kuna internet [28:42] didi. [28:42] Muta vute [28:43] kwa Tik Tok. [28:47] He kakiduli. [28:49] Okay. [28:50] Did, [28:50] did, [28:51] in everything [28:52] that Moi did [28:52] as much [28:53] as [28:53] we know [28:55] there was [28:55] a lot [28:55] of bad [28:56] things [28:56] that [28:56] happened [28:57] then, [28:58] was there [28:58] any single [28:59] thing that [28:59] Moi did [28:59] that you're [29:00] like, [29:00] this one [29:00] was a [29:01] good thing? [29:03] Well, [29:03] I think [29:03] when he [29:04] finally [29:04] said, [29:06] you know, [29:06] the time [29:07] had come [29:08] for [29:09] multi-party. [29:10] Okay. [29:11] because many [29:13] people in [29:13] the party [29:15] did not want [29:17] Kenya to [29:17] become a [29:18] multi-party [29:18] state. [29:19] And I [29:19] remember [29:19] when they [29:21] had that [29:21] meeting in [29:22] Kasarani [29:22] and everybody [29:24] was saying [29:25] no, no, [29:26] no to [29:26] multi-party. [29:28] And then Moi [29:28] stood up and [29:29] said, [29:30] the time has [29:32] come. [29:34] We should [29:35] let it go. [29:36] We should [29:36] let it [29:37] go. [29:37] Because he [29:38] could have [29:38] just still [29:39] said no. [29:40] He was a [29:40] very interesting [29:42] gentleman. [29:42] He could [29:42] have said [29:43] I'm [29:43] not. [29:44] And I [29:45] think at [29:45] that time [29:46] a lot of [29:46] people read [29:47] him wrongly. [29:49] Most of [29:49] his ardent [29:50] supporters [29:51] who were [29:51] seen to be [29:52] close to [29:53] him. [29:53] If you [29:54] listen to [29:54] the speeches [29:54] that were [29:55] made, [29:55] Kasarani [29:56] were saying [29:56] no, [29:57] no, [29:57] no to [29:58] multi-party. [30:01] But [30:01] he was [30:02] surprised. [30:03] Everybody [30:04] was shocked [30:04] by the way. [30:05] But, [30:06] you know, [30:06] there had [30:07] been, [30:08] very [30:10] constant [30:11] pressure [30:11] on him [30:12] internally [30:13] and externally. [30:15] And I [30:15] think he [30:15] had just [30:15] had to [30:15] understand [30:16] externally. [30:18] And of [30:19] course, [30:19] he had [30:20] detained [30:20] as many [30:21] people he [30:22] could. [30:23] Some [30:23] people had [30:24] died. [30:26] What else [30:26] could he [30:26] do? [30:27] People [30:28] like [30:28] Matiba [30:28] really [30:30] suffered [30:30] because [30:31] they [30:32] didn't [30:32] come out [30:33] of [30:33] prison [30:33] looking [30:35] healthy [30:36] at all. [30:37] So, [30:40] you [30:40] did [30:41] this, [30:42] you [30:42] stayed [30:42] out [30:42] in the [30:42] cold [30:43] kidogo [30:43] in your [30:44] political [30:44] journey, [30:45] but somewhere [30:45] you were [30:45] still in [30:46] the [30:46] corridors [30:47] of [30:47] power. [30:48] You [30:49] were doing [30:49] this, [30:49] you were [30:49] doing [30:49] that. [30:50] Then [30:50] later, [30:51] you [30:51] ran for [30:53] governor. [30:55] I [30:55] became [30:55] senator [30:56] before. [30:56] Yeah, [30:57] yeah, [30:57] senator, [30:58] then [30:58] governor. [30:59] Why [30:59] did [31:00] you [31:00] go for [31:00] the [31:00] governor's [31:01] seat? [31:01] Well, [31:02] actually, [31:03] I can't [31:03] really [31:03] explain [31:04] because [31:05] I [31:07] thought [31:08] I had [31:08] enough [31:08] of [31:09] parliament, [31:09] really. [31:11] And then [31:12] we [31:13] thought [31:14] in the [31:15] framework [31:16] of [31:17] devolution, [31:18] we thought [31:19] there was [31:19] something [31:20] we could [31:20] do. [31:21] And that [31:22] is why [31:22] me and [31:23] my [31:23] colleague [31:23] Nyang [31:24] made [31:26] that [31:26] decision [31:27] that we [31:28] could run [31:28] for [31:29] governor [31:30] and make [31:31] a difference. [31:32] And [31:32] unfortunately, [31:34] the commitment [31:35] to devolution [31:36] has always [31:36] been [31:37] questionable. [31:39] The [31:40] national [31:40] government, [31:41] I think [31:41] all the [31:41] presidents, [31:43] the three [31:44] of them [31:45] who came [31:45] were there [31:47] under the [31:47] new [31:47] constitution. [31:48] I don't [31:49] think [31:49] they really [31:49] believed [31:51] in [31:51] devolution. [31:53] I think [31:54] if [31:54] Raila [31:55] had been [31:56] president, [31:57] devolution [31:58] would be [31:58] better [31:59] placed. [32:00] We could [32:00] see [32:01] campaign [32:01] for it [32:02] and [32:02] they [32:03] liked [32:03] it. [32:03] Okay. [32:05] So you [32:05] said in [32:06] your [32:06] statement [32:06] just [32:06] now [32:07] that [32:07] you [32:07] thought [32:07] you [32:07] would [32:08] change [32:08] things. [32:09] So it's [32:10] safe to [32:10] say [32:11] nothing [32:11] has [32:11] changed. [32:12] No, [32:13] I think [32:13] something [32:13] has [32:14] happened. [32:14] If you [32:14] go to [32:15] a lot [32:16] of [32:16] these [32:16] counties, [32:17] if you [32:17] compare [32:18] how they [32:19] looked [32:19] and what [32:20] was [32:20] happening [32:21] in [32:22] many [32:23] respects, [32:24] the [32:24] health [32:24] sector, [32:26] agriculture, [32:28] the [32:28] ECDs, [32:30] they [32:30] look [32:31] better [32:32] than [32:34] and I [32:36] think [32:36] bringing [32:37] government [32:38] closer to [32:39] the [32:39] people, [32:40] bringing [32:41] resources [32:41] closer to [32:42] the [32:42] people, [32:43] and having [32:44] representation, [32:45] effective [32:45] representation, [32:47] at that level [32:48] through the [32:48] county [32:48] assemblies, [32:49] I think [32:50] that has [32:52] been [32:52] a good [32:55] story. [32:56] Okay. [32:57] In [32:57] CIA to [32:57] be [32:57] specific? [32:59] In [33:00] CIA I [33:00] think we [33:00] have [33:01] made [33:01] some [33:01] progress. [33:02] Things that [33:02] have [33:02] worked and [33:03] the ones [33:03] that have [33:03] not [33:04] worked. [33:04] I think [33:05] what [33:05] disturbs [33:07] the [33:07] evolution [33:07] is the [33:11] share of [33:11] revenue [33:11] between the [33:12] national [33:12] government [33:13] and the [33:14] county [33:14] governments. [33:15] A lot [33:16] of resources [33:16] still remain [33:17] at the [33:19] national level. [33:19] For [33:20] example, [33:21] health is [33:22] fully [33:22] devolved [33:23] under the [33:23] constitution, [33:25] but the [33:26] bulk of [33:26] the money [33:27] remains [33:28] with the [33:29] national [33:29] government. [33:30] Agriculture [33:30] is fully [33:31] devolved, [33:32] but the [33:33] bulk of [33:33] the money [33:34] is still [33:34] with the [33:35] national [33:35] government. [33:37] Roads, [33:38] in fact the [33:38] constitution has [33:39] only two [33:40] categories of [33:41] roads, [33:42] county roads [33:43] and [33:45] national [33:46] highways. [33:48] But the [33:49] national [33:49] government [33:49] decided to [33:50] categorize [33:52] even [33:52] county [33:53] roads [33:53] to be [33:55] roads that [33:56] fall within [33:57] the [33:58] jurisdiction of [33:59] the national [33:59] government. [34:00] So a lot [34:01] of funds [34:01] really which [34:02] should go to [34:03] the county [34:03] governments [34:04] remain with [34:05] the national [34:06] government. [34:07] But with [34:07] the little [34:08] that is [34:08] there, [34:09] has anything [34:09] happened in [34:10] Syria? [34:11] A lot has [34:12] happened in [34:12] the health [34:13] sector. [34:14] We have [34:14] not only [34:14] built [34:16] new [34:18] hospitals, [34:19] improved [34:20] health [34:20] centers. [34:22] In [34:22] agriculture, [34:23] you know, [34:23] in [34:23] Sierra, [34:25] basically we [34:26] had [34:27] subsistence [34:28] farming. [34:29] I think [34:30] there's [34:30] quite a bit [34:31] of an [34:32] improvement. [34:33] We even [34:33] built up [34:34] a rice mill [34:36] which is [34:37] now [34:38] milling [34:39] rice. [34:41] We are [34:42] about to [34:43] start the [34:44] construction [34:44] of a [34:46] cotton [34:46] machinery [34:46] in [34:47] Rarieda. [34:48] So I [34:50] think quite [34:51] a bit [34:51] has been [34:51] done with [34:52] the resources [34:53] that have [34:54] been made [34:55] available. [34:56] Are the [34:56] people happy? [34:58] I think [34:58] generally I [34:59] mean the [35:00] fact that [35:00] we don't [35:02] have a [35:03] major issue [35:03] with the [35:04] people. [35:05] That can [35:06] be tested [35:06] during the [35:07] next election. [35:09] That's the [35:09] only true [35:10] test. [35:11] But I [35:12] have been [35:13] in politics. [35:14] I can [35:16] say that [35:16] people in [35:19] CIA [35:19] support my [35:22] leadership. [35:23] Okay. [35:24] Because as [35:25] much as you [35:25] say that [35:26] devolution, [35:29] there's a [35:29] couple of [35:29] things that [35:30] are devolved [35:30] and the [35:31] bulk of [35:31] the money [35:32] is the [35:32] national [35:32] government. [35:33] And we've [35:34] been seeing [35:34] the politics [35:34] that are [35:35] happening [35:35] now, [35:35] especially [35:35] in the [35:36] Luenyanza. [35:37] Our [35:37] leaders are [35:38] telling us [35:39] the reason [35:39] why we're [35:40] closing up [35:40] to the [35:40] president is [35:41] so that [35:41] development [35:42] can come. [35:44] Does a [35:45] leader have [35:46] to close up [35:46] to the [35:47] president for [35:48] development [35:48] to come. [35:49] Then also [35:50] we saw [35:50] videos of [35:52] you embracing [35:53] president [35:54] Ruto. [35:55] The videos [35:56] of you [35:56] and pictures [35:58] like this [35:58] one. [35:58] Let me [35:58] show you. [36:00] And around [36:00] this time [36:00] when people [36:01] are like, [36:01] why are you [36:02] embracing [36:03] picture number [36:04] four and [36:05] number five? [36:07] Yes, [36:07] yes, [36:08] yes. [36:08] It was a [36:08] time when [36:09] he visited [36:09] CIA, [36:10] I think [36:11] twice. [36:12] Yes. [36:13] His last [36:14] visit was [36:14] not a very [36:14] good visit [36:15] because [36:15] he [36:16] my security [36:19] details [36:20] were arrested. [36:21] They [36:21] organized [36:22] people [36:22] from [36:22] outside [36:23] CIA [36:24] to [36:25] heckle [36:25] me [36:26] in [36:26] his [36:26] meeting. [36:27] And [36:28] that is [36:28] because [36:29] every time [36:29] he came, [36:30] I welcomed [36:31] him as [36:32] the president [36:33] under the [36:34] framework of [36:34] the Constitution [36:35] because the [36:36] Constitution [36:36] says the [36:37] two levels [36:38] of government [36:38] should work [36:40] together [36:40] within the [36:41] framework of [36:42] the Constitution. [36:43] but there [36:46] are a lot [36:47] of things [36:47] I uttered [36:49] while he [36:49] was in [36:50] CIA in [36:51] some of [36:51] those [36:51] meetings [36:52] that I [36:55] think [36:55] started our [36:57] relationship. [36:59] But in [37:00] that time [37:00] when you [37:01] were welcoming [37:01] him, [37:01] you told [37:02] people, [37:02] no, [37:02] you have [37:03] to welcome [37:03] the person [37:04] so me [37:04] I'm [37:04] pro-development [37:05] and everything. [37:07] Did that [37:07] causing up to [37:08] the president [37:09] work? [37:09] Did it [37:09] get the job [37:10] done? [37:10] I thought [37:11] it would [37:12] work, [37:12] but I [37:15] think the [37:15] nature [37:16] of [37:16] Ruto's [37:19] administration [37:23] is just [37:27] bringing [37:28] a Mobutis [37:29] kind of [37:30] state. [37:31] I think [37:32] for him [37:33] the [37:34] presidency [37:35] is in [37:36] the image [37:37] of the [37:38] first two [37:39] presidents. [37:40] The [37:40] presidency [37:41] is the [37:43] giver of [37:43] all. [37:44] And I [37:45] think it's [37:45] a bit [37:46] stupid [37:46] for [37:47] anybody [37:49] under [37:49] this new [37:49] constitution [37:50] to worship [37:51] the president [37:52] the way [37:52] I see [37:53] some of [37:54] my [37:54] colleagues [37:54] do. [37:55] Or [37:56] think that [37:56] it is [37:58] only the [37:58] president [37:58] who can [37:59] bring [38:00] development [38:01] to [38:01] any [38:02] county. [38:04] Under [38:04] our [38:04] system [38:05] of [38:05] budgeting, [38:07] the [38:07] budget [38:08] is [38:08] program-based. [38:11] So that [38:11] you can [38:11] look at [38:12] the [38:12] budget [38:12] and [38:12] determine [38:13] whether [38:14] a road [38:16] is in [38:17] the [38:17] budget. [38:17] A lot [38:22] of times [38:23] when these [38:23] announcements [38:24] are made [38:24] I'm going [38:25] to build [38:26] this road [38:26] I'm going [38:27] to do [38:27] this [38:27] you go [38:28] to the [38:29] budget [38:29] you find [38:31] there is [38:31] no money [38:31] for it. [38:33] Or [38:33] sometimes [38:33] you can [38:34] find [38:34] a road [38:35] which [38:37] would cost [38:38] about [38:38] 10 [38:39] billion [38:39] shillings [38:40] and in [38:41] the [38:41] budget [38:42] there is [38:43] only [38:43] 500 [38:43] million [38:44] shillings. [38:45] So he [38:46] would [38:46] come [38:46] do [38:49] ground [38:49] breaking [38:49] and after [38:51] two weeks [38:51] the [38:53] contractor [38:53] leaves [38:54] the [38:54] site [38:55] because [38:56] even [38:59] the [39:00] money [39:00] to enable [39:01] him to [39:02] mobilize [39:02] and start [39:04] working [39:05] is not [39:06] there. [39:06] But isn't [39:07] this a [39:08] problem [39:08] with the [39:10] budget [39:10] appropriations [39:11] committee [39:12] because if [39:13] a road [39:14] can cost [39:14] let's say [39:15] a billion [39:15] and you [39:17] find the [39:17] budget [39:17] allocated [39:18] for it [39:18] is [39:18] 100 [39:19] million [39:19] like [39:22] why [39:22] would [39:22] you [39:22] yeah [39:23] because [39:24] you know [39:25] the [39:25] presidents [39:25] are still [39:26] very [39:26] imperial [39:27] institutions [39:28] like [39:30] when you [39:30] hear [39:31] the [39:32] chairman [39:32] of a [39:32] budget [39:33] committee [39:33] I'm not [39:36] talking [39:36] particularly [39:36] about [39:37] the [39:37] present [39:37] one [39:37] but [39:38] even [39:39] previously [39:39] the [39:41] way [39:41] they [39:41] talk [39:42] is [39:43] as if [39:43] they [39:44] are [39:44] given [39:44] instructions [39:45] by the [39:47] president [39:47] do [39:48] this [39:48] do [39:49] this [39:49] do [39:49] this [39:49] and [39:51] that [39:51] is [39:51] not [39:52] right. [39:53] Do [39:55] you [39:55] believe [39:56] politics [39:56] is [39:57] personal [39:58] for [39:58] you [39:58] guys [39:59] for [39:59] the [39:59] politicians [39:59] not [40:00] Kenyan [40:00] for [40:01] you [40:01] guys [40:01] is [40:01] just [40:01] business [40:02] me [40:03] I [40:04] am [40:06] politics [40:06] because [40:07] of [40:07] conviction [40:07] I'm [40:09] not [40:09] in [40:10] politics [40:10] because [40:10] it [40:11] is [40:11] a [40:11] career [40:11] or [40:13] to [40:14] satisfy [40:14] myself [40:15] I [40:16] go to [40:17] politics [40:17] because [40:17] it's [40:17] a [40:18] conviction [40:18] I [40:19] feel [40:19] there's [40:19] something [40:20] to [40:20] fight [40:20] for [40:21] and [40:22] I [40:22] have [40:23] been [40:23] consistent [40:23] in [40:25] that [40:26] regard [40:26] if [40:27] you [40:27] look [40:29] at [40:29] what [40:31] James [40:31] Arengo [40:31] was [40:32] saying [40:32] in [40:33] the [40:34] first [40:34] parliament [40:35] that [40:36] I [40:36] participated [40:37] in [40:37] in [40:37] 1980 [40:38] with [40:39] people [40:39] like [40:39] Charles [40:40] Njonjo [40:41] Kibaki [40:41] B. [40:43] Watt [40:43] and [40:43] others [40:44] if [40:45] you [40:45] find [40:45] what [40:45] I [40:46] said [40:46] and [40:47] look [40:48] at [40:48] you [40:49] know [40:49] my [40:49] track [40:50] record [40:50] you'll [40:51] find [40:51] that [40:52] I [40:52] fight [40:53] for [40:54] certain [40:55] ideals [40:55] I [40:56] hold [40:56] dear [40:57] in [40:59] my [40:59] political [41:00] engagement [41:02] but [41:03] the [41:04] reason [41:04] I [41:04] was [41:04] saying [41:04] that [41:05] you [41:05] know [41:05] we [41:05] find [41:05] many [41:06] politicians [41:06] not [41:06] necessarily [41:07] you [41:07] they [41:08] would [41:09] come [41:09] and [41:09] say [41:09] this [41:10] is [41:10] a [41:10] bad [41:10] person [41:10] and [41:12] then [41:12] later [41:13] they [41:13] come [41:14] and [41:14] align [41:15] then [41:15] all of [41:15] a [41:15] sudden [41:15] these [41:17] are [41:17] but [41:19] did [41:19] I [41:20] say [41:20] no [41:21] this [41:22] is [41:22] Jesus [41:23] now [41:23] this [41:23] is [41:23] the [41:24] guy [41:24] who [41:24] delivered [41:24] and [41:25] you're [41:25] not [41:25] wrong [41:26] you [41:26] know [41:26] like [41:26] you [41:27] know [41:27] some [41:27] of [41:27] my [41:27] colleagues [41:28] love [41:28] this [41:29] they [41:29] are [41:29] showing [41:30] to [41:30] Ruto [41:30] is [41:32] astonishing [41:34] not [41:34] only [41:34] Ruto [41:34] even [41:35] president [41:35] when [41:36] Baba [41:37] was [41:37] not [41:38] working [41:38] with [41:38] Hume [41:38] then [41:39] they [41:39] had [41:39] the [41:39] handshake [41:40] then [41:40] all [41:41] of [41:41] you [41:41] guys [41:41] were [41:42] behind [41:42] Baba [41:42] Baba [41:42] Mesema [41:43] and [41:43] we're [41:43] also [41:44] seeing [41:44] it [41:44] now [41:44] but [41:45] check [41:46] me [41:46] out [41:47] every [41:47] time [41:48] there [41:49] has [41:49] been [41:49] that [41:50] kind [41:50] of [41:50] arrangement [41:51] I've [41:52] stuck [41:53] to [41:54] what [41:54] I believe [41:55] in [41:56] but I [41:57] was [41:57] trying [41:57] to [41:57] say [41:58] that [41:58] you [41:59] know [41:59] the [42:00] presidency [42:01] is [42:02] probably [42:03] one [42:04] of [42:05] the [42:05] most [42:06] democratic [42:08] institutions [42:09] that we [42:09] have [42:09] now [42:10] and [42:10] democratic [42:11] the [42:13] presidency [42:13] because [42:14] we [42:15] have [42:16] an [42:16] imperial [42:16] presidency [42:17] and [42:19] that [42:19] presidency [42:20] operates [42:21] in such [42:21] a way [42:22] that [42:22] everybody [42:22] believes [42:23] that [42:24] unless [42:25] you [42:25] praise [42:26] and [42:26] worship [42:27] you [42:28] are [42:28] never [42:28] going [42:29] to [42:29] get [42:29] anything [42:29] out [42:30] of [42:30] it [42:30] when [42:30] we [42:31] were [42:31] you [42:33] know [42:33] kind [42:36] of [42:37] making [42:38] this [42:38] constitution [42:39] one [42:40] of [42:40] the [42:40] things [42:40] in [42:41] fact [42:41] it [42:41] is [42:41] in [42:42] the [42:42] work [42:44] record [42:45] how [42:46] to [42:46] deal [42:46] with [42:46] the [42:47] presidency [42:47] was [42:47] one [42:48] of [42:48] the [42:49] key [42:49] things [42:49] that [42:50] people [42:50] thought [42:50] the [42:51] presidency [42:52] was [42:53] all [42:53] powerful [42:54] it [42:55] was [42:55] authoritarian [42:56] and [42:57] we [42:58] have [42:58] to [42:58] change [42:59] that [43:00] institution [43:00] okay [43:01] good [43:03] luck [43:04] with [43:04] that [43:04] all [43:07] we [43:07] gonna [43:07] do [43:07] from [43:07] over [43:08] here [43:08] is [43:08] watch [43:08] and [43:08] pray [43:09] and [43:10] maybe [43:10] fast [43:10] intermittent [43:11] fast [43:12] because [43:13] now [43:13] you [43:13] know [43:13] when [43:13] the [43:14] economy [43:14] is [43:14] tough [43:14] we [43:15] don't [43:15] have [43:15] an [43:15] option [43:15] but [43:16] to [43:16] fast [43:16] speaking [43:19] of [43:19] before [43:20] you [43:20] come [43:21] to [43:21] the [43:21] current [43:21] regime [43:22] and [43:22] the [43:22] happenings [43:23] also [43:23] the [43:23] finance [43:24] bill [43:24] manenos [43:24] and [43:25] manano [43:25] others [43:26] touch [43:27] a bit [43:27] on [43:27] baba [43:28] you [43:30] said [43:31] baba [43:31] their [43:33] last [43:33] born [43:33] was [43:34] your [43:34] friend [43:34] it [43:35] was [43:35] not [43:35] the [43:36] last [43:36] born [43:36] but [43:36] it [43:36] was [43:37] somewhere [43:38] in [43:38] the [43:38] middle [43:38] was [43:40] your [43:40] friend [43:41] at [43:41] what [43:42] point [43:42] did [43:42] you [43:42] and [43:43] baba [43:43] now [43:43] solidify [43:44] your [43:44] relationship [43:44] because [43:44] probably [43:45] you guys [43:45] were [43:45] meeting [43:46] kidogo [43:47] but [43:47] now [43:47] there's [43:47] a [43:47] point [43:48] where [43:48] you guys [43:48] now [43:48] clicked [43:48] because [43:49] your [43:49] friendship [43:49] was [43:50] also [43:50] something [43:50] to [43:50] people [43:51] are [43:51] looking [43:51] at [43:51] oh [43:52] wow [43:52] you [43:53] know [43:53] when [43:53] I [43:53] was [43:53] at [43:54] the [43:54] university [43:54] Raila [43:56] was [43:56] a [43:56] lecturer [43:57] at [43:58] the [43:58] university [43:59] you [43:59] were [43:59] in [43:59] yeah [44:00] yeah [44:00] he was [44:01] a [44:01] lecturer [44:01] at [44:02] the [44:02] university [44:02] I [44:04] was [44:04] already [44:05] active [44:07] in the [44:08] political [44:08] space [44:08] he was [44:10] not [44:10] active [44:12] in the [44:12] political [44:12] space [44:13] at that [44:13] time [44:13] but [44:15] when [44:16] I [44:17] went to [44:17] campaign [44:17] for the [44:19] first time [44:20] in [44:20] 1980 [44:21] to be [44:21] a [44:21] member [44:22] of [44:22] parliament [44:22] he [44:23] fully [44:24] participated [44:25] in my [44:26] campaign [44:26] and [44:27] then [44:27] I [44:28] had [44:28] a [44:28] relationship [44:28] with [44:29] his [44:29] father [44:29] as [44:31] a [44:31] student [44:32] leader [44:33] you [44:35] know [44:35] at that [44:36] time [44:36] I [44:36] think [44:36] we [44:38] had [44:38] this [44:39] you [44:41] know [44:41] arrangement [44:43] in which [44:44] political [44:45] leaders [44:45] would come [44:46] to the [44:46] university [44:46] to give [44:47] lectures [44:47] people [44:48] like [44:48] Mboya [44:48] used [44:48] to do [44:49] that [44:49] Jaramogi [44:50] and [44:51] others [44:51] you [44:55] know [44:55] Jem [44:55] Kariki [44:56] people [44:57] like [44:57] that [44:57] so [44:58] I [44:59] then [45:01] began [45:03] to do [45:03] work [45:04] do [45:04] politics [45:05] with [45:05] him [45:05] from [45:07] 1980 [45:08] when I [45:08] was [45:08] elected [45:08] as [45:09] a [45:09] member [45:10] of [45:10] parliament [45:10] constantly [45:12] meeting [45:13] with him [45:13] and his [45:13] father [45:14] so [45:16] he [45:16] drew [45:17] a lot [45:17] of [45:17] inspiration [45:18] from [45:18] the [45:18] father [45:18] and [45:19] guidance [45:19] and [45:20] also [45:20] you [45:20] because [45:21] you [45:21] and [45:21] the [45:22] father [45:22] kind [45:22] of [45:22] had [45:22] a [45:23] relationship [45:23] so [45:24] you [45:24] got [45:24] in [45:24] politics [45:24] before [45:25] baba [45:25] ah [45:26] nice [45:27] elected [45:27] politics [45:28] that [45:28] is [45:28] oh [45:29] okay [45:29] okay [45:30] okay [45:31] any [45:32] of [45:32] the [45:32] best [45:33] I [45:33] know [45:33] you [45:33] had [45:34] a [45:34] lot [45:34] of [45:34] them [45:34] but [45:35] maybe [45:35] just [45:35] two [45:36] of [45:36] the [45:36] happiest [45:36] memories [45:37] you [45:37] remember [45:37] when [45:38] you [45:38] were [45:38] with [45:38] baba [45:38] you [45:40] know [45:40] with [45:41] him [45:41] many [45:42] times [45:42] you [45:43] know [45:43] and [45:44] it [45:44] was [45:44] not [45:44] all [45:44] politics [45:45] even [45:45] yeah [45:46] that's [45:46] what I'm [45:46] saying [45:47] not [45:47] generally [45:47] we [45:48] enjoyed [45:50] football [45:51] we [45:51] enjoyed [45:52] family [45:53] we [45:54] enjoyed [45:54] music [45:55] you [45:56] know [45:56] many [45:56] things [45:57] so [45:58] it [45:58] was [45:59] not [46:00] just [46:00] all [46:00] politics [46:01] okay [46:01] so [46:02] the [46:02] cohesion [46:03] was [46:04] great [46:05] because [46:06] it [46:07] was not [46:07] just [46:07] based [46:08] on [46:09] politics [46:09] okay [46:10] bad [46:11] moments [46:11] with [46:12] him [46:12] like [46:17] now [46:17] the [46:18] worst [46:18] because [46:19] there [46:19] are [46:19] many [46:19] also [46:19] together [46:20] a couple [46:21] of [46:21] times [46:21] yeah [46:22] I [46:23] think [46:23] the [46:23] bad [46:23] moments [46:23] was [46:24] when [46:25] he [46:25] was [46:25] detained [46:25] I [46:27] mean [46:27] you [46:27] were [46:27] working [46:27] with [46:28] him [46:28] and [46:29] then [46:29] he [46:29] was [46:29] detained [46:30] not [46:30] for [46:30] one [46:30] year [46:31] for [46:32] six [46:33] years [46:33] and [46:35] then [46:35] he [46:36] is [46:36] released [46:37] and [46:37] then [46:37] after [46:38] chock [46:38] while [46:38] again [46:38] he [46:39] is [46:39] detained [46:40] for [46:40] another [46:40] three [46:41] years [46:41] for [46:43] him [46:44] and [46:45] even [46:46] looking at [46:47] it [46:48] from [46:48] any [46:48] perspective [46:48] nine [46:50] years [46:50] of [46:50] somebody's [46:51] life [46:51] adult [46:52] life [46:52] you [46:53] spent [46:54] in [46:54] prison [46:54] is [46:56] no [46:56] mean [46:56] deal [46:57] so [46:58] those [46:58] are [46:58] the [46:59] moments [46:59] you [47:00] would [47:01] try [47:01] to [47:02] you [47:03] know [47:03] kind [47:03] of [47:04] remember [47:06] good [47:07] moments [47:08] the fact [47:09] that [47:09] he was [47:09] missing [47:09] in [47:10] action [47:10] and [47:11] the [47:12] family [47:12] was [47:12] also [47:13] suffering [47:14] I mean [47:15] Ida [47:16] Udinga [47:17] she had [47:18] her bad [47:18] moments [47:19] also [47:19] losing [47:21] a job [47:22] being [47:24] arrested [47:24] and [47:27] you [47:29] know [47:29] living [47:31] without [47:32] her best [47:33] friend [47:33] for [47:33] nine [47:34] years [47:34] that [47:36] was [47:36] not [47:36] easy [47:36] those [47:38] were [47:38] bad [47:38] moments [47:38] but [47:40] Jeromogi [47:41] also [47:41] had [47:41] moments [47:42] that [47:43] I [47:43] thought [47:43] the [47:44] state [47:45] handled [47:47] him [47:47] very [47:48] brutally [47:48] during [47:50] the [47:50] mandamano [47:51] he [47:52] was [47:52] arrested [47:52] from [47:53] his [47:53] house [47:54] in [47:54] Jericho [47:55] Jerusalem [47:57] rather [47:57] while [48:00] in his [48:01] pajamas [48:01] taken [48:03] to a [48:03] cell [48:04] in [48:05] Kasarani [48:06] Kasarani [48:09] police [48:09] station [48:09] spent [48:12] the night [48:13] there [48:13] then [48:15] being [48:16] driven [48:17] to [48:17] Kisumu [48:18] in [48:20] the [48:21] same [48:21] pajamas [48:22] and [48:24] I [48:24] thought [48:25] that [48:25] was [48:25] very [48:25] unfair [48:27] very [48:28] harsh [48:29] and [48:30] severe [48:30] When [48:31] Baba [48:32] was [48:32] detained [48:32] ever [48:32] visited [48:33] him [48:33] No [48:35] I [48:35] was [48:35] not [48:35] able [48:35] to [48:35] visit [48:36] him [48:36] because [48:36] only [48:37] family [48:38] and [48:39] lawyers [48:40] but [48:42] when [48:42] he [48:43] came [48:43] out [48:44] to [48:45] give [48:45] evidence [48:45] during [48:46] the [48:47] inquiry [48:47] I [48:49] was [48:50] with [48:50] his [48:50] father [48:50] in [48:51] parliament [48:51] and [48:52] were [48:52] able [48:52] to [48:53] exchange [48:54] words [48:54] while [48:56] in [48:59] parliament [49:00] I [49:02] also [49:02] acted [49:03] for [49:03] him [49:04] as [49:06] a [49:06] political [49:06] detainee [49:07] there [49:07] was [49:07] a [49:08] political [49:10] detainee [49:10] tribunal [49:11] and [49:12] you'd [49:13] act [49:13] without [49:14] being able [49:16] to see [49:16] your [49:17] client [49:17] but [49:19] I would [49:20] say [49:20] that [49:21] principally [49:21] people [49:22] like [49:23] John [49:24] and [49:26] other [49:29] lawyers [49:29] who [49:31] were [49:31] his [49:31] primary [49:31] lawyers [49:32] during [49:32] his [49:32] time [49:33] in [49:33] detention [49:33] and [49:35] cumulatively [49:36] you've [49:37] known [49:37] Baba [49:37] for [49:37] maybe [49:38] 40 [49:38] years [49:39] something [49:40] could [49:41] be [49:42] more [49:42] did [49:44] you [49:44] guys [49:44] ever [49:44] disagree [49:45] well [49:47] not [49:48] a [49:49] disagreement [49:51] that [49:52] would [49:54] cut [49:54] a [49:55] relationship [49:55] sometimes [49:57] when we [49:57] are [49:57] discussing [49:58] ideas [49:58] what [49:59] to [49:59] do [50:00] do [50:01] we [50:01] start [50:01] a [50:01] political [50:01] party [50:02] sometimes [50:03] we [50:03] get [50:03] different [50:04] views [50:04] do [50:07] we [50:07] work [50:08] with [50:09] more [50:09] do [50:10] you [50:11] work [50:11] with [50:11] uhuru [50:11] would [50:14] have [50:14] disagreements [50:14] in those [50:15] moments [50:15] but [50:16] they [50:17] were [50:17] purely [50:17] disagreements [50:19] that [50:19] were [50:19] based [50:19] on [50:19] principle [50:20] and [50:22] thereafter [50:24] we [50:24] could [50:25] still [50:25] have [50:25] the [50:27] usual [50:27] relationship [50:28] so [50:29] you [50:29] disagree [50:29] but [50:29] still [50:30] be [50:30] friends [50:30] there [50:32] was [50:34] a [50:34] time [50:34] just [50:35] before [50:35] baba [50:36] died [50:36] you [50:37] went [50:37] missing [50:38] and [50:39] rumors [50:39] flew [50:40] around [50:40] oh [50:41] rengo [50:41] is [50:41] dead [50:42] oh [50:42] this [50:43] you [50:45] had [50:45] the [50:46] rumors [50:46] yeah [50:46] yeah [50:46] I [50:47] had [50:47] the [50:47] rumors [50:47] what [50:48] was [50:48] happening [50:48] that [50:48] time [50:48] I [50:49] was [50:49] in [50:49] India [50:49] I [50:50] went [50:50] to [50:50] India [50:50] for [50:50] a [50:51] tour [50:51] for [50:52] a [50:52] tour [50:53] yeah [50:53] I [50:53] had a [50:56] family [50:56] friend [50:57] in [50:58] here [50:59] and [51:01] that's [51:01] not [51:01] the [51:02] first [51:02] time [51:02] I [51:02] was [51:02] going [51:02] to [51:03] India [51:03] for [51:04] such [51:04] a [51:04] tour [51:05] and [51:05] visit [51:05] where is [51:08] orengo [51:09] headlines [51:10] where is [51:10] orengo [51:10] orengo [51:11] orengo [51:11] orengo [51:12] orengo [51:13] orengo [51:16] orengo [51:18] I [51:19] I [51:19] I [51:19] didn't [51:19] know [51:19] when [51:19] I [51:19] was [51:20] about [51:22] to [51:22] go [51:22] to [51:22] India [51:23] he [51:23] was [51:23] in [51:23] this [51:23] house [51:24] oh [51:25] he [51:25] was [51:25] here [51:25] before [51:27] you [51:27] had [51:27] nini [51:28] before [51:28] I [51:28] went [51:28] to [51:29] India [51:29] and [51:30] he [51:30] knew [51:30] where I [51:30] was [51:30] going [51:31] so [51:31] a [51:33] lot [51:33] even [51:36] when [51:36] I [51:36] ame [51:39] pull [51:39] up [51:39] my [51:41] madam [51:44] here [51:44] Betty [51:44] were [51:45] best [51:46] friends [51:46] with [51:46] baba [51:47] and [51:48] Ida [51:48] so [51:50] the [51:51] disagreements [51:52] were not [51:52] the kind [51:52] of [51:52] disagreements [51:53] that [51:53] would [51:54] cause [51:55] you [51:55] to [51:55] cease [51:55] to [51:55] be [51:56] friends [51:56] then [51:58] kidogo [51:58] we [51:59] have [51:59] another [52:00] event [52:01] with [52:02] a lot [52:02] of [52:03] people [52:03] orengo [52:04] is [52:04] back [52:04] orengo [52:04] is [52:05] back [52:05] how [52:08] is [52:08] he [52:09] okay [52:09] that [52:09] was [52:10] in [52:10] homo [52:10] bay [52:10] during [52:12] the [52:12] funeral [52:12] of [52:13] Fibia [52:14] sale [52:15] yes [52:15] yes [52:16] and [52:16] Rila [52:17] was [52:18] there [52:18] the [52:18] president [52:18] was [52:19] there [52:19] and [52:20] I [52:20] went [52:21] I [52:22] arrived [52:22] there [52:22] towards [52:23] the [52:23] tail [52:23] end [52:23] of [52:23] the [52:23] yeah [52:24] you [52:24] pulled [52:24] up [52:24] last [52:25] minute [52:25] read [52:26] body [52:26] language [52:27] body [52:27] language [52:27] a lot [52:31] of [52:32] things [52:32] are [52:32] happening [52:32] okay [52:34] so [52:35] this [52:35] happening [52:35] life [52:36] is [52:36] happening [52:37] baba [52:37] doing [52:38] beautiful [52:38] things [52:38] for [52:39] the [52:39] country [52:39] for [52:39] the [52:39] people [52:40] then [52:41] baba [52:41] dies [52:41] and [52:42] I [52:43] think [52:43] it [52:43] was [52:43] about [52:43] a [52:43] week [52:44] ago [52:44] you [52:45] made [52:45] very [52:46] serious [52:46] allegations [52:47] about [52:47] baba's [52:47] death [52:48] how [52:48] he [52:48] died [52:49] he [52:49] was [52:49] taking [52:50] the [52:50] private [52:50] jet [52:50] came [52:51] back [52:51] and [52:52] everything [52:53] first of [52:54] all [52:54] when [52:54] baba [52:55] died [52:55] where [52:56] were [52:56] you [52:56] who [52:56] broke [52:57] the [52:57] news [52:57] to [52:57] you [52:57] you [52:58] I [52:58] was [52:58] in [52:58] CIA [52:59] you [53:00] know [53:00] I [53:01] talked [53:02] to [53:04] him [53:04] because [53:05] he [53:05] was [53:05] supposed [53:05] to [53:05] come [53:06] and [53:06] close [53:08] the [53:09] CIA [53:09] international [53:10] trade [53:12] conference [53:15] that we [53:16] had [53:16] in [53:17] CIA [53:17] the [53:18] president [53:18] was [53:19] supposed [53:19] to [53:19] open [53:20] it [53:20] and [53:21] Raila [53:21] was [53:21] supposed [53:21] to [53:21] close [53:22] it [53:22] and [53:24] finally [53:26] when I [53:26] talked [53:27] to [53:27] him [53:28] deputy [53:31] president [53:31] was in [53:32] my office [53:33] together [53:34] with [53:34] Dr. [53:34] Buru [53:34] he came [53:35] to do [53:36] one of [53:36] these [53:36] empowerment [53:37] events [53:37] in [53:39] CIA [53:40] and [53:41] then [53:41] suddenly [53:42] I [53:43] got a [53:44] call [53:44] from [53:44] him [53:45] and [53:46] he [53:46] was [53:46] having [53:47] doubts [53:47] whether [53:48] he [53:48] could [53:48] make [53:49] it [53:50] to [53:51] the [53:51] international [53:52] trade [53:54] conference [53:54] that [53:56] was [53:56] on [53:57] the [53:57] 13 [53:58] that [53:59] we [54:00] were [54:00] talking [54:00] and [54:01] I [54:02] talked [54:02] to [54:02] him [54:02] again [54:03] on [54:03] the [54:03] 14 [54:04] when [54:05] he [54:05] gave [54:05] the [54:05] impression [54:05] that [54:06] he [54:07] doubts [54:07] whether [54:07] he [54:08] would [54:08] be [54:08] able [54:08] to [54:08] come [54:08] back [54:09] in [54:09] good [54:09] time [54:09] so [54:09] that's [54:10] our [54:10] call [54:10] from [54:11] India [54:12] and [54:13] then [54:15] on [54:15] the [54:16] 15 [54:16] before [54:18] the [54:19] conference [54:19] begins [54:19] we [54:20] get [54:20] the [54:21] message [54:21] that [54:21] Baba [54:21] is [54:22] dead [54:22] where [54:23] did [54:23] you [54:23] get [54:23] the [54:23] message [54:24] from [54:24] I [54:25] got [54:25] the [54:27] message [54:27] I [54:27] think [54:28] I [54:28] was [54:28] rang [54:28] by [54:29] Ruth [54:31] Odinger [54:32] who [54:33] rang [54:33] a million [54:34] people [54:34] actually rang [54:35] me [54:35] that [54:35] morning [54:35] within [54:36] a [54:37] spate [54:37] of [54:37] 10 [54:38] minutes [54:38] have [54:39] you [54:39] heard [54:40] have [54:40] you [54:40] heard [54:40] then [54:42] when [54:44] Ruth [54:44] Odinger [54:44] talked [54:45] to [54:45] me [54:45] then [54:45] I [54:45] knew [54:47] it [54:47] was [54:48] true [54:48] how [54:49] did [54:49] you [54:49] take [54:49] it [54:49] where [54:50] were [54:50] you [54:50] you [54:50] were [54:50] ready [54:51] I [54:52] had [54:52] many [54:53] guests [54:53] from [54:54] all [54:54] over [54:54] the [54:54] world [54:54] we [54:55] were [54:55] now [54:56] going [54:56] to [54:56] move [54:56] to [54:57] the [54:57] first [54:58] day [54:58] of [54:58] the [54:58] conference [54:59] that [55:00] that [55:00] was [55:00] the [55:00] first [55:00] day [55:01] the [55:01] conference [55:03] never [55:03] really [55:03] took [55:04] off [55:04] and [55:06] of course [55:08] the news [55:10] spread like [55:10] wildfire [55:11] and there [55:13] was no [55:13] way [55:13] that [55:14] conference [55:14] was going [55:15] to go [55:15] on [55:15] even if [55:16] we wanted [55:17] it to [55:17] go on [55:18] people [55:19] were out [55:19] in the [55:20] streets [55:20] wailing [55:21] and mourning [55:22] so we [55:24] called [55:24] our guests [55:26] who had [55:27] come [55:27] and [55:28] said [55:29] now [55:30] it is [55:30] impossible [55:31] to go [55:31] on [55:31] with [55:33] the [55:33] conference [55:34] and [55:36] you [55:36] know [55:37] on [55:39] the [55:39] 14th [55:40] I was [55:41] trying to [55:41] persuade [55:42] Ida [55:43] Odinga [55:43] to come [55:43] to the [55:45] conference [55:45] on the [55:46] 15th [55:47] and [55:48] she [55:49] kind of [55:50] said [55:50] yes [55:51] but she [55:52] said [55:52] really [55:53] I [55:54] don't [55:55] feel [55:56] like [55:57] coming [55:57] it was [55:58] like [55:58] she had [55:58] a [55:58] premonition [55:59] so [56:01] when [56:02] it [56:02] happened [56:02] in the [56:03] morning [56:03] I [56:04] said [56:05] probably [56:05] Ida [56:05] Odinga [56:05] had [56:06] this [56:06] premonition [56:07] and that's [56:09] why [56:09] she [56:10] declined [56:10] my [56:10] invitation [56:11] then [56:13] where [56:13] did [56:14] you [56:14] go [56:14] so [56:14] it [56:15] has [56:15] happened [56:15] called [56:16] you [56:16] canceled [56:16] the [56:16] conference [56:17] went [56:17] back [56:18] home [56:18] to [56:18] the [56:18] office [56:18] yeah [56:19] went [56:19] back [56:19] to [56:19] the [56:20] office [56:20] we [56:21] had [56:21] a [56:21] lot [56:21] of [56:22] you [56:22] know [56:23] things [56:24] to [56:24] do [56:24] how [56:24] to [56:25] get [56:26] things [56:26] close [56:27] and [56:27] packed [56:28] and [56:31] get [56:32] people [56:32] to [56:33] understand [56:33] who [56:33] had [56:34] come [56:34] some [56:35] of [56:36] them [56:36] who [56:36] had [56:36] not [56:36] come [56:36] to [56:37] the [56:37] office [56:37] and [56:38] then [56:39] made [56:39] arrangements [56:39] to [56:39] come [56:39] to [56:40] Nairobi [56:40] yeah [56:42] why do [56:43] you [56:43] think [56:44] Baba [56:44] was [56:44] brought [56:44] back [56:45] the way [56:45] in the [56:46] manner [56:46] that [56:46] he [56:46] was [56:46] brought [56:46] back [56:47] a lot [56:47] of [56:47] people [56:47] including [56:47] myself [56:48] I [56:49] was [56:49] just [56:49] like [56:49] I [56:49] just [56:50] asked [56:50] how [56:51] that's [56:53] why [56:53] I [56:54] really [56:54] didn't [56:54] understand [56:55] how [56:55] they [56:55] could [56:55] do [56:56] that [56:56] how [56:56] the [56:57] body [56:58] Baba's [56:59] body [57:00] would [57:00] come [57:00] as [57:00] cargo [57:01] in a [57:02] commercial [57:02] flight [57:03] and [57:04] Sifuna [57:06] gave [57:06] a [57:06] very [57:07] graphic [57:07] picture [57:08] that [57:09] when [57:09] they [57:09] were [57:09] in [57:09] that [57:10] plane [57:10] they [57:11] could [57:11] see [57:12] you [57:12] know [57:13] the [57:13] coffin [57:14] on [57:15] the [57:16] tarmac [57:16] and [57:18] it [57:18] didn't [57:18] look [57:19] like [57:19] you [57:19] know [57:19] it [57:22] was [57:22] Baba [57:23] because [57:23] he [57:24] expected [57:24] that [57:25] you [57:25] know [57:25] there [57:26] would [57:26] be [57:26] people [57:26] mailing [57:27] around [57:27] and [57:28] so [57:28] on [57:29] and [57:29] so [57:29] forth [57:29] there [57:30] are [57:30] people [57:30] who [57:31] have [57:32] been [57:32] spreading [57:32] rumors [57:33] alleging [57:35] alluding [57:36] that Baba [57:37] never [57:37] even [57:37] really [57:38] went [57:38] to [57:38] India [57:38] that [57:38] Baba [57:39] was [57:39] just [57:39] here [57:39] all [57:39] alone [57:40] it [57:40] was [57:41] an [57:41] empty [57:41] coffin [57:42] I [57:43] think [57:43] he [57:44] went [57:44] to [57:46] India [57:46] and [57:48] his [57:49] daughter [57:49] was [57:49] there [57:49] his [57:51] sister [57:52] was [57:52] there [57:52] his [57:54] security [57:55] was [57:55] there [57:55] and [57:57] he [57:58] was [57:58] sending [57:58] pictures [58:00] of [58:00] him [58:01] in [58:03] India [58:04] he [58:05] was [58:06] taking [58:06] pictures [58:06] with [58:07] you [58:08] know [58:08] friends [58:09] and [58:10] people [58:10] in [58:11] government [58:13] in [58:13] India [58:13] being [58:17] buried [58:18] hurriedly [58:19] a lot [58:20] of [58:20] people [58:20] also [58:21] didn't [58:21] take [58:21] it [58:21] well [58:21] especially [58:22] from [58:22] the [58:23] yeah [58:23] well [58:24] I [58:24] think [58:25] that [58:26] is [58:26] his [58:26] wish [58:26] was [58:27] his [58:27] wish [58:27] I [58:28] didn't [58:28] see [58:28] the [58:29] will [58:29] but [58:31] if [58:32] that [58:33] was [58:34] his [58:34] wish [58:34] and [58:34] is [58:35] in [58:35] the [58:35] will [58:35] yeah [58:36] people [58:37] feel [58:37] they [58:37] didn't [58:38] mourn [58:38] well [58:38] did [58:38] you [58:39] got [58:41] closure [58:41] yeah [58:41] you [58:42] know [58:42] it [58:42] went [58:43] too [58:43] quickly [58:43] you [58:47] know [58:47] people [58:49] needed [58:49] a lot [58:49] of [58:50] time [58:50] I [58:50] mean [58:51] even [58:51] the [58:51] Pope [58:51] when [58:51] he [58:51] dies [58:52] the [58:52] Pope [58:52] is [58:52] not [58:52] bad [58:53] it [58:53] immediately [58:53] takes [58:54] about [58:54] 10 days [58:56] 14 days [58:57] not [59:00] necessarily [59:01] a [59:01] month [59:01] but [59:02] it [59:02] was [59:03] too [59:03] quick [59:03] have [59:07] you [59:07] come [59:07] into [59:08] terms [59:08] I [59:10] have [59:10] not [59:10] really [59:11] come [59:11] to [59:11] terms [59:11] because [59:12] all [59:14] the [59:14] time [59:15] Rila [59:16] stated [59:19] very [59:19] clearly [59:19] that [59:20] there [59:21] is [59:21] still [59:21] business [59:21] to [59:21] be [59:22] done [59:22] the [59:24] changes [59:25] that [59:25] we [59:26] anticipated [59:26] that [59:28] would [59:28] be [59:28] well [59:29] in [59:29] place [59:29] under [59:30] the [59:30] new [59:30] constitution [59:30] were [59:32] not [59:32] quite [59:32] in [59:32] place [59:33] and [59:34] that's [59:34] why [59:34] Baba [59:37] sometimes [59:37] was [59:37] crossing [59:38] the [59:38] floor [59:39] to [59:39] talk [59:40] to [59:40] whatever [59:40] administration [59:41] to [59:42] try [59:42] and [59:42] make [59:43] things [59:43] better [59:44] and [59:45] under [59:45] the [59:45] root [59:46] of [59:46] government [59:46] he [59:46] had [59:47] this [59:47] the [59:48] NADCO [59:48] process [59:49] the [59:50] NADCO [59:50] report [59:51] the [59:52] 10-point [59:52] agenda [59:53] all [59:54] that I [59:54] think [59:55] he [59:55] was [59:55] trying [59:55] to [59:55] say [59:56] okay [59:56] we [59:57] didn't [59:57] make [59:58] it [59:58] in [59:58] the [59:59] elections [59:59] but [1:00:01] we [1:00:02] could [1:00:03] use [1:00:03] the [1:00:04] demonstration [1:00:05] in [1:00:05] place [1:00:05] to [1:00:06] try [1:00:07] and [1:00:07] get [1:00:07] some [1:00:08] of [1:00:08] those [1:00:08] changes [1:00:09] done [1:00:10] okay [1:00:11] do you [1:00:12] still have [1:00:12] his number [1:00:13] I'm only [1:00:14] delete [1:00:14] I know [1:00:14] I have [1:00:15] his number [1:00:16] you still have [1:00:16] all of [1:00:16] his number [1:00:17] yeah [1:00:17] I will [1:00:18] never [1:00:18] delete [1:00:18] it [1:00:18] sometimes [1:00:21] you have [1:00:22] to call [1:00:22] you're like [1:00:22] yeah [1:00:23] yeah [1:00:23] yeah [1:00:24] and it [1:00:25] was not [1:00:25] just one [1:00:26] number [1:00:26] it was [1:00:26] several [1:00:28] and you [1:00:28] still have [1:00:29] all of [1:00:29] them [1:00:29] okay [1:00:31] do [1:00:33] you [1:00:33] see [1:00:33] baba [1:00:34] in [1:00:34] any [1:00:35] of [1:00:35] the [1:00:36] current [1:00:36] leaders [1:00:36] or [1:00:37] anybody [1:00:37] in [1:00:38] the [1:00:38] country [1:00:38] well [1:00:40] you [1:00:40] know [1:00:40] one [1:00:42] of [1:00:42] the [1:00:42] you [1:00:43] know [1:00:43] baba [1:00:43] was [1:00:43] a [1:00:44] reformer [1:00:45] true [1:00:45] political [1:00:46] reformer [1:00:48] I think [1:00:49] the [1:00:50] political [1:00:52] history [1:00:52] of [1:00:52] Kenya [1:00:53] has [1:00:53] been [1:00:53] very [1:00:54] bad [1:00:54] for [1:00:55] reformers [1:00:56] people [1:00:57] fight [1:00:57] very [1:00:57] hard [1:00:58] to [1:00:59] bring [1:01:00] about [1:01:00] reforms [1:01:00] and [1:01:02] then [1:01:02] the [1:01:02] people [1:01:02] who [1:01:02] take [1:01:03] over [1:01:03] after [1:01:05] many [1:01:05] changes [1:01:06] we bring [1:01:06] multi-party [1:01:07] Moe still [1:01:08] wins [1:01:09] we bring [1:01:10] a new [1:01:11] constitution [1:01:11] Ruto [1:01:13] is in [1:01:13] power [1:01:14] Ruto [1:01:17] was [1:01:17] IYK [1:01:18] 92 [1:01:19] who [1:01:21] were [1:01:21] opposed [1:01:22] to [1:01:22] bringing [1:01:23] change [1:01:23] a new [1:01:23] constitution [1:01:24] I mean [1:01:25] these [1:01:25] things [1:01:25] are [1:01:25] shocking [1:01:26] and [1:01:28] as [1:01:29] they [1:01:29] say [1:01:29] you [1:01:30] cannot [1:01:31] have [1:01:31] reform [1:01:31] without [1:01:32] reformers [1:01:32] and [1:01:34] if [1:01:34] you [1:01:34] have [1:01:34] reformers [1:01:35] you [1:01:35] cannot [1:01:36] have [1:01:36] change [1:01:36] without [1:01:38] a [1:01:39] progressive [1:01:40] movement [1:01:41] that stands [1:01:42] for [1:01:42] reform [1:01:42] and [1:01:44] I [1:01:44] think [1:01:44] Raila [1:01:44] Amolodinga [1:01:45] tried [1:01:46] in [1:01:46] Odium [1:01:47] to [1:01:48] build [1:01:48] a [1:01:50] reform [1:01:50] movement [1:01:52] in [1:01:53] the [1:01:53] political [1:01:53] particle [1:01:54] Odium [1:01:54] for [1:01:55] the [1:01:55] broad [1:01:56] masses [1:01:56] of [1:01:56] the [1:01:56] people [1:01:57] but [1:01:58] you [1:01:59] know [1:01:59] again [1:02:00] as [1:02:01] it [1:02:01] happens [1:02:02] many [1:02:02] times [1:02:02] when [1:02:04] a [1:02:05] figure [1:02:05] like [1:02:06] Raila [1:02:06] Amolodinga [1:02:07] is [1:02:07] off [1:02:07] the [1:02:08] stage [1:02:08] people [1:02:10] who [1:02:10] take [1:02:10] over [1:02:11] tend [1:02:12] to be [1:02:12] opportunists [1:02:12] and [1:02:13] it [1:02:13] happens [1:02:13] all [1:02:13] over [1:02:14] like [1:02:14] in [1:02:14] Tanzania [1:02:15] looking [1:02:17] at [1:02:17] CCM [1:02:18] is [1:02:18] it [1:02:18] the [1:02:19] party [1:02:19] I [1:02:20] doubt [1:02:21] you [1:02:22] don't [1:02:22] see [1:02:22] it [1:02:23] yeah [1:02:23] so [1:02:24] basically [1:02:25] you don't [1:02:27] see Baba [1:02:27] in [1:02:28] any [1:02:28] of [1:02:28] the [1:02:28] current [1:02:28] crop [1:02:29] of [1:02:29] leaders [1:02:29] who [1:02:29] are [1:02:29] still [1:02:30] I [1:02:30] mean [1:02:31] it [1:02:31] is [1:02:31] not [1:02:31] easy [1:02:32] to [1:02:33] copy [1:02:34] paste [1:02:35] Baba [1:02:35] like [1:02:35] Winnie [1:02:36] said [1:02:36] a [1:02:39] leader [1:02:39] like [1:02:40] Raila [1:02:41] comes [1:02:41] once [1:02:43] in [1:02:43] a [1:02:43] generation [1:02:44] or [1:02:44] two [1:02:44] generations [1:02:45] you [1:02:47] don't [1:02:47] think [1:02:48] he [1:02:48] is [1:02:48] in [1:02:48] you [1:02:49] embody [1:02:51] him [1:02:52] I [1:02:52] think [1:02:52] we [1:02:53] shared [1:02:53] many [1:02:54] values [1:02:54] many [1:02:55] many [1:02:56] many [1:02:56] political [1:02:56] values [1:02:57] and [1:02:59] we [1:02:59] worked [1:02:59] together [1:03:00] for [1:03:00] a [1:03:00] long [1:03:00] time [1:03:01] but [1:03:03] we [1:03:03] were [1:03:03] not [1:03:03] quite [1:03:04] the [1:03:04] same [1:03:05] the [1:03:06] sense [1:03:07] of [1:03:07] drive [1:03:07] that [1:03:07] he [1:03:08] had [1:03:08] I [1:03:09] think [1:03:10] with [1:03:10] Raila [1:03:10] it [1:03:11] is [1:03:11] very [1:03:13] difficult [1:03:13] to [1:03:13] replicate [1:03:14] but [1:03:15] there [1:03:15] are [1:03:15] people [1:03:16] who [1:03:16] see [1:03:16] him [1:03:16] in [1:03:17] you [1:03:17] they [1:03:18] are [1:03:18] like [1:03:18] us [1:03:19] when [1:03:19] we [1:03:19] see [1:03:19] Orengo [1:03:20] we [1:03:20] see [1:03:20] Baba [1:03:20] is [1:03:21] our [1:03:21] hope [1:03:21] there [1:03:21] are [1:03:21] people [1:03:22] who [1:03:22] see [1:03:22] him [1:03:22] in [1:03:22] Babu [1:03:23] there [1:03:23] are [1:03:23] people [1:03:23] who [1:03:23] see [1:03:23] him [1:03:24] in [1:03:24] Winnie [1:03:24] and so [1:03:25] on [1:03:25] and so [1:03:26] forth [1:03:26] yeah [1:03:26] that [1:03:26] happens [1:03:27] because [1:03:27] people [1:03:28] are [1:03:28] looking [1:03:28] for [1:03:29] such [1:03:30] a [1:03:30] figure [1:03:30] in [1:03:32] every [1:03:32] country [1:03:34] even [1:03:35] in [1:03:36] South [1:03:36] Africa [1:03:36] people [1:03:38] want [1:03:38] to see [1:03:38] Mandela [1:03:39] Mandela [1:03:39] yeah [1:03:40] yeah [1:03:40] yeah [1:03:40] but [1:03:41] it [1:03:44] never [1:03:44] really [1:03:44] happens [1:03:45] okay [1:03:45] CS [1:03:46] Mbadi [1:03:47] stated that [1:03:48] ODM does [1:03:48] not [1:03:49] belong [1:03:52] Odinga [1:03:52] to [1:03:52] respect [1:03:53] the [1:03:53] current [1:03:53] leadership [1:03:53] formation [1:03:54] however [1:03:55] we [1:03:56] know [1:03:56] that [1:03:56] ODM [1:03:56] was [1:03:57] Baba's [1:03:57] crown jewel [1:03:57] do you [1:03:59] believe [1:04:00] ODM [1:04:00] is [1:04:01] for [1:04:02] the [1:04:02] Baba [1:04:02] family [1:04:03] am I [1:04:03] you [1:04:04] agree [1:04:04] with [1:04:04] CS [1:04:05] Mbadi [1:04:06] sentiments [1:04:06] I don't [1:04:07] I don't [1:04:08] agree [1:04:08] with him [1:04:09] because [1:04:09] you know [1:04:09] the [1:04:10] Odinga [1:04:11] family [1:04:11] have been [1:04:13] in the [1:04:13] forefront [1:04:13] of the [1:04:14] struggle [1:04:14] Jaramogi [1:04:16] and [1:04:18] Raila [1:04:20] even [1:04:20] when [1:04:21] his [1:04:21] father [1:04:22] was [1:04:22] active [1:04:24] in [1:04:24] politics [1:04:24] he [1:04:26] played [1:04:27] his [1:04:27] own [1:04:27] dynamics [1:04:28] improved [1:04:29] on his [1:04:31] father's [1:04:32] credentials [1:04:33] fought [1:04:34] very hard [1:04:35] you know [1:04:36] by the [1:04:36] time [1:04:36] Jaramogi [1:04:37] died [1:04:38] you know [1:04:38] Fort [1:04:38] Kenya [1:04:39] was [1:04:39] more or [1:04:40] less [1:04:40] a regional [1:04:41] party [1:04:42] more [1:04:43] confined [1:04:43] to the [1:04:44] lake [1:04:44] region [1:04:44] with [1:04:45] one or [1:04:45] two [1:04:46] seats [1:04:46] in the [1:04:47] coast [1:04:47] in the [1:04:48] western [1:04:48] region [1:04:49] but [1:04:51] Raila [1:04:51] built [1:04:51] a truly [1:04:52] national [1:04:53] party [1:04:54] that [1:04:54] has [1:04:55] footprints [1:04:55] in [1:04:57] all [1:04:57] the [1:04:57] regions [1:04:58] in [1:04:58] Kenya [1:04:58] I [1:04:59] think [1:04:59] it [1:04:59] is [1:04:59] the [1:04:59] only [1:04:59] party [1:05:00] actually [1:05:00] that [1:05:02] was [1:05:02] never [1:05:03] in [1:05:03] power [1:05:04] but [1:05:05] with [1:05:05] footprints [1:05:06] all [1:05:07] over [1:05:07] the [1:05:07] country [1:05:08] now [1:05:08] the [1:05:09] tragedy [1:05:11] is [1:05:12] that [1:05:12] those [1:05:14] in the [1:05:14] party [1:05:15] now [1:05:15] in [1:05:17] leadership [1:05:17] I [1:05:18] don't [1:05:18] think [1:05:18] they [1:05:19] ever [1:05:19] shared [1:05:19] the [1:05:21] ideology [1:05:21] that [1:05:22] drove [1:05:22] Raila [1:05:23] to be [1:05:24] Raila [1:05:25] or [1:05:26] shared [1:05:26] any [1:05:27] of [1:05:27] his [1:05:27] ideas [1:05:27] I [1:05:28] think [1:05:28] they [1:05:28] are [1:05:29] just [1:05:29] a [1:05:29] bunch [1:05:29] of [1:05:30] career [1:05:30] who [1:05:31] are [1:05:33] in [1:05:33] politics [1:05:34] to [1:05:34] do [1:05:35] business [1:05:35] or [1:05:37] to [1:05:37] advance [1:05:38] their [1:05:39] personal [1:05:39] causes [1:05:40] you [1:05:41] don't [1:05:41] believe [1:05:42] with [1:05:43] what [1:05:43] you're [1:05:43] saying [1:05:44] that [1:05:44] means [1:05:44] you [1:05:44] don't [1:05:44] believe [1:05:45] in [1:05:45] the [1:05:45] current [1:05:45] leadership [1:05:46] of [1:05:46] the [1:05:46] party [1:05:46] I [1:05:47] just [1:05:48] look [1:05:48] at [1:05:48] them [1:05:48] they [1:05:50] have [1:05:50] sold [1:05:50] the [1:05:50] party [1:05:50] the [1:05:52] only [1:05:52] thing [1:05:52] they [1:05:52] talk [1:05:53] about [1:05:53] is [1:05:53] RUTO [1:05:54] two [1:05:54] terms [1:05:55] how [1:05:56] they [1:05:57] sell [1:05:57] the [1:05:58] party [1:05:58] is [1:05:58] there [1:05:58] evidence [1:05:59] of [1:05:59] them [1:05:59] selling [1:05:59] the [1:06:00] party [1:06:00] they [1:06:00] are [1:06:02] not [1:06:02] selling [1:06:02] the [1:06:02] party [1:06:02] anymore [1:06:03] I [1:06:04] mean [1:06:04] how [1:06:04] can [1:06:05] you [1:06:05] be [1:06:05] you [1:06:06] know [1:06:06] from [1:06:07] every [1:06:07] day [1:06:07] from [1:06:08] morning [1:06:08] you [1:06:09] are [1:06:09] just [1:06:09] talking [1:06:10] about [1:06:10] RUTO [1:06:10] RUTO [1:06:10] and [1:06:11] two [1:06:12] term [1:06:12] for [1:06:13] a [1:06:13] political [1:06:14] party [1:06:14] of [1:06:15] ODM [1:06:16] smite [1:06:17] how [1:06:19] there [1:06:22] are [1:06:22] no [1:06:22] instruments [1:06:23] there [1:06:24] was [1:06:26] no [1:06:26] agreement [1:06:27] nothing [1:06:29] so [1:06:31] the [1:06:31] agreement [1:06:31] between [1:06:32] baba [1:06:32] and [1:06:32] the [1:06:32] UDA [1:06:33] party [1:06:33] was [1:06:33] word [1:06:34] of [1:06:34] mouth [1:06:34] it [1:06:35] was [1:06:35] not [1:06:35] even [1:06:36] an [1:06:36] agreement [1:06:36] these [1:06:37] characters [1:06:38] had [1:06:39] already [1:06:39] you [1:06:41] know [1:06:42] campaigned [1:06:43] for [1:06:43] jobs [1:06:44] for [1:06:44] themselves [1:06:44] and [1:06:46] then [1:06:46] they [1:06:47] got [1:06:47] together [1:06:47] and [1:06:47] they [1:06:47] said [1:06:48] you [1:06:48] know [1:06:48] whether [1:06:49] baba [1:06:49] agrees [1:06:50] or [1:06:50] not [1:06:50] we [1:06:50] are [1:06:50] going [1:06:51] now [1:06:51] what [1:06:52] affected [1:06:53] Raila [1:06:53] Molodinga [1:06:54] about [1:06:55] their [1:06:55] possible [1:06:56] departure [1:06:57] from [1:06:57] the [1:06:58] party [1:06:58] because [1:06:59] they [1:06:59] had [1:06:59] been [1:07:01] given [1:07:02] positions [1:07:02] in [1:07:03] the [1:07:03] UDA [1:07:03] government [1:07:04] was [1:07:05] that [1:07:05] it [1:07:05] looked [1:07:05] like [1:07:06] there [1:07:06] is [1:07:06] a [1:07:07] big [1:07:08] break [1:07:09] or [1:07:11] people [1:07:13] withdrawing [1:07:14] from [1:07:14] the [1:07:14] party [1:07:14] I [1:07:15] mean [1:07:15] there [1:07:15] were [1:07:15] about [1:07:16] six [1:07:16] of [1:07:17] them [1:07:18] being [1:07:18] given [1:07:19] those [1:07:21] jobs [1:07:21] so [1:07:22] Raila [1:07:22] coined [1:07:23] this [1:07:24] word [1:07:24] that [1:07:24] we [1:07:25] are [1:07:26] donating [1:07:26] experts [1:07:27] damage [1:07:30] control [1:07:30] yeah [1:07:31] yeah [1:07:31] it [1:07:31] was [1:07:32] damage [1:07:32] control [1:07:33] yeah [1:07:34] yeah [1:07:34] yeah [1:07:35] yeah [1:07:35] yeah [1:07:37] they were [1:07:37] already [1:07:37] going [1:07:38] in fact [1:07:39] one of [1:07:39] them [1:07:40] said [1:07:40] you [1:07:40] know [1:07:41] if [1:07:43] somebody [1:07:44] thinks [1:07:44] that [1:07:45] I [1:07:45] cannot [1:07:47] get [1:07:47] this [1:07:47] job [1:07:48] because [1:07:49] I'm [1:07:49] from [1:07:49] this [1:07:50] region [1:07:50] check [1:07:51] me [1:07:51] out [1:07:52] I'm [1:07:52] not [1:07:52] from [1:07:53] this [1:07:53] region [1:07:53] oh [1:07:55] wow [1:07:55] but [1:07:57] everybody [1:07:57] assumed [1:07:58] that [1:07:58] baba [1:07:58] is [1:07:58] the [1:07:58] one [1:07:58] who [1:07:59] donated [1:07:59] them [1:07:59] I'm [1:08:00] telling [1:08:00] you [1:08:00] no [1:08:06] way [1:08:06] no [1:08:06] way [1:08:06] if [1:08:07] if [1:08:07] if [1:08:07] really [1:08:08] believe [1:08:09] that [1:08:09] you [1:08:09] know [1:08:10] President [1:08:11] Root [1:08:11] was [1:08:12] good [1:08:12] for [1:08:12] Kenya [1:08:13] he [1:08:14] would [1:08:14] have [1:08:15] had [1:08:15] a [1:08:15] formal [1:08:15] agreement [1:08:17] like [1:08:17] they [1:08:17] had [1:08:18] with [1:08:18] Kibaki [1:08:18] and [1:08:21] he [1:08:23] would [1:08:23] not [1:08:23] have [1:08:23] let [1:08:25] ODM [1:08:26] leaders [1:08:27] in [1:08:28] parliament [1:08:28] continue [1:08:29] to [1:08:30] occupy [1:08:30] seats [1:08:31] in [1:08:32] the [1:08:32] minority [1:08:33] or [1:08:33] in [1:08:33] the [1:08:33] opposition [1:08:34] the [1:08:34] minority [1:08:35] leader [1:08:35] in [1:08:36] the [1:08:36] national [1:08:36] assembly [1:08:37] is [1:08:38] a [1:08:38] member [1:08:38] of [1:08:38] ODM [1:08:39] is [1:08:40] the [1:08:40] one [1:08:40] who [1:08:40] is [1:08:40] supposed [1:08:41] to [1:08:41] oversight [1:08:42] not [1:08:43] only [1:08:43] government [1:08:44] but [1:08:44] the [1:08:45] majority [1:08:46] party [1:08:48] in [1:08:48] parliament [1:08:48] the [1:08:49] minority [1:08:49] leader [1:08:50] in [1:08:50] the [1:08:50] senate [1:08:50] is [1:08:51] somebody [1:08:51] from [1:08:51] ODM [1:08:52] and [1:08:53] the [1:08:53] majority [1:08:53] leader [1:08:54] is [1:08:54] from [1:08:54] UDA [1:08:55] amen [1:08:55] it [1:08:56] never [1:08:56] happens [1:08:56] in [1:08:58] any [1:08:58] place [1:08:59] that [1:08:59] your [1:09:00] people [1:09:00] in [1:09:00] government [1:09:01] are [1:09:02] the [1:09:02] same [1:09:02] time [1:09:03] they [1:09:03] in [1:09:03] the [1:09:03] opposition [1:09:03] it [1:09:05] meant [1:09:05] that [1:09:05] Baba [1:09:06] valued [1:09:07] their [1:09:08] positions [1:09:08] in [1:09:09] the [1:09:09] minority [1:09:10] in [1:09:11] parliament [1:09:11] because [1:09:12] that [1:09:12] is [1:09:13] provided [1:09:13] for [1:09:13] under [1:09:14] the [1:09:14] constitution [1:09:14] and [1:09:15] by [1:09:16] statute [1:09:16] but [1:09:17] they [1:09:18] are [1:09:18] going [1:09:18] to [1:09:19] UDA [1:09:19] government [1:09:20] was [1:09:22] like [1:09:22] come [1:09:24] we [1:09:24] stay [1:09:24] there [1:09:25] is [1:09:25] no [1:09:25] instruments [1:09:28] so [1:09:28] when [1:09:29] they [1:09:29] went [1:09:30] and [1:09:30] they [1:09:31] were [1:09:31] given [1:09:32] these [1:09:32] positions [1:09:32] so [1:09:33] Baba [1:09:33] was [1:09:34] not [1:09:34] aware [1:09:34] but [1:09:34] he [1:09:35] said [1:09:35] let's [1:09:35] find [1:09:36] a [1:09:36] damage [1:09:36] control [1:09:36] yes [1:09:37] precisely [1:09:37] so [1:09:38] was [1:09:38] Baba [1:09:39] in [1:09:39] good [1:09:39] terms [1:09:39] with [1:09:39] them [1:09:40] well [1:09:41] there [1:09:42] were [1:09:43] some [1:09:43] harsh [1:09:44] words [1:09:46] and [1:09:46] arguments [1:09:47] and [1:09:48] there [1:09:49] was [1:09:49] a [1:09:49] time [1:09:49] when [1:09:49] there [1:09:50] was [1:09:50] a [1:09:51] delegation [1:09:51] to [1:09:51] go [1:09:51] to [1:09:52] Dubai [1:09:52] to [1:09:53] try [1:09:54] and [1:09:54] persuade [1:09:54] Raila [1:09:55] Molodinga [1:09:56] to let [1:09:56] them [1:09:56] go [1:09:58] into [1:09:58] government [1:09:58] and [1:10:00] he [1:10:00] declined [1:10:01] he said [1:10:01] I'm not [1:10:01] going to [1:10:02] receive [1:10:02] that [1:10:02] delegation [1:10:03] but [1:10:04] when [1:10:05] he [1:10:05] reviewed [1:10:05] the [1:10:05] whole [1:10:06] thing [1:10:06] he [1:10:07] said [1:10:07] ODM [1:10:09] will [1:10:09] have [1:10:10] a [1:10:10] lot [1:10:10] of [1:10:10] damage [1:10:10] if [1:10:11] it [1:10:12] appears [1:10:13] that [1:10:14] four [1:10:15] five [1:10:15] six [1:10:15] people [1:10:16] have [1:10:17] left [1:10:17] the [1:10:17] party [1:10:17] to [1:10:18] join [1:10:18] UDA [1:10:21] and [1:10:23] you [1:10:23] said [1:10:23] Baba [1:10:23] coined [1:10:23] this [1:10:24] phrase [1:10:24] we [1:10:24] are [1:10:24] donating [1:10:25] expats [1:10:25] were [1:10:26] they [1:10:26] experts [1:10:27] I [1:10:28] don't [1:10:28] know [1:10:29] I [1:10:29] mean [1:10:29] if [1:10:29] you [1:10:29] are [1:10:29] an [1:10:30] expert [1:10:30] if [1:10:33] I [1:10:33] go [1:10:33] one [1:10:34] by [1:10:34] one [1:10:35] Mbadi [1:10:37] is [1:10:37] an [1:10:37] accountant [1:10:38] the [1:10:41] job [1:10:42] in [1:10:42] the [1:10:43] treasury [1:10:44] if [1:10:44] you [1:10:44] are [1:10:44] looking [1:10:44] for [1:10:45] an [1:10:46] expert [1:10:46] you [1:10:47] would [1:10:48] probably [1:10:48] look [1:10:48] for [1:10:48] an [1:10:50] economist [1:10:50] with [1:10:52] financial [1:10:52] credentials [1:10:53] if [1:10:55] we're [1:10:55] talking [1:10:55] about [1:10:55] experts [1:10:56] I'm [1:10:56] not [1:10:56] saying [1:10:57] that [1:10:57] you [1:10:57] know [1:10:57] you [1:10:58] must [1:10:58] be [1:10:59] having [1:11:00] those [1:11:00] positions [1:11:00] you [1:11:01] must [1:11:02] not [1:11:02] be [1:11:03] an [1:11:03] economist [1:11:03] to [1:11:04] be [1:11:04] a [1:11:04] minister [1:11:04] for [1:11:05] finance [1:11:05] or [1:11:06] economic [1:11:06] planning [1:11:07] there's [1:11:08] nothing [1:11:08] like [1:11:09] that [1:11:09] in [1:11:09] the [1:11:09] job [1:11:09] description [1:11:10] but [1:11:11] even [1:11:11] by [1:11:11] the [1:11:11] nature [1:11:12] they [1:11:12] have [1:11:12] been [1:11:13] confronted [1:11:13] with [1:11:14] the [1:11:15] crisis [1:11:15] we [1:11:15] have [1:11:16] had [1:11:16] including [1:11:18] the [1:11:18] war [1:11:20] in [1:11:20] Iran [1:11:21] with [1:11:23] the [1:11:24] United [1:11:24] States [1:11:24] they [1:11:25] would [1:11:25] have [1:11:26] foreseen [1:11:26] what [1:11:27] to [1:11:27] do [1:11:28] that [1:11:28] this [1:11:28] situation [1:11:29] is [1:11:29] likely [1:11:30] to [1:11:31] end [1:11:32] up [1:11:32] in [1:11:33] a [1:11:34] crisis [1:11:34] and [1:11:36] make [1:11:36] plans [1:11:37] well [1:11:38] in [1:11:38] advance [1:11:38] because [1:11:39] we [1:11:39] had [1:11:39] that [1:11:39] war [1:11:39] between [1:11:40] Russia [1:11:41] and [1:11:41] Ukraine [1:11:41] which [1:11:43] is [1:11:43] still [1:11:43] going [1:11:43] on [1:11:43] so [1:11:45] that [1:11:46] explains [1:11:47] the [1:11:48] fact [1:11:48] that [1:11:48] Tanzania [1:11:50] Uganda [1:11:51] Rwanda [1:11:52] Ethiopia [1:11:53] were [1:11:54] ready [1:11:54] for [1:11:54] this [1:11:55] conflict [1:11:55] in [1:11:56] Iran [1:11:56] while [1:11:57] we [1:11:58] were [1:11:58] not [1:11:58] ready [1:11:58] I [1:12:02] don't [1:12:07] think [1:12:07] he [1:12:07] went [1:12:07] to [1:12:08] training [1:12:09] in [1:12:10] a [1:12:10] chemical [1:12:10] college [1:12:12] or [1:12:13] institute [1:12:13] or [1:12:13] in [1:12:14] any [1:12:17] training [1:12:17] in [1:12:17] the [1:12:17] oil [1:12:18] industry [1:12:18] or [1:12:19] the [1:12:19] extractive [1:12:20] sector [1:12:21] in [1:12:22] the [1:12:25] economy [1:12:26] I [1:12:26] don't [1:12:26] think [1:12:27] they [1:12:27] have [1:12:27] those [1:12:27] training [1:12:28] but [1:12:28] I'm [1:12:28] saying [1:12:28] they [1:12:28] don't [1:12:29] have [1:12:29] to [1:12:29] but [1:12:30] if [1:12:31] you [1:12:31] see [1:12:31] what [1:12:31] they [1:12:31] say [1:12:32] and [1:12:33] do [1:12:33] in [1:12:33] public [1:12:34] with [1:12:36] respect [1:12:36] they [1:12:36] show [1:12:36] quite a lot [1:12:37] of [1:12:37] ignorance [1:12:37] when [1:12:42] Baba [1:12:42] left [1:12:43] us [1:12:43] there [1:12:44] was [1:12:44] an issue [1:12:44] of [1:12:45] leadership [1:12:45] of [1:12:45] ODM [1:12:46] moving forward [1:12:47] and [1:12:49] Oburu [1:12:52] Oginga [1:12:52] was [1:12:53] installed [1:12:53] as [1:12:54] a [1:12:55] party [1:12:55] leader [1:12:55] it [1:12:56] was [1:12:56] interim [1:12:56] then [1:12:57] now [1:12:57] later [1:12:57] they [1:12:57] were [1:12:57] like [1:12:58] okay [1:12:58] how [1:12:59] did [1:12:59] you [1:12:59] take [1:12:59] that [1:13:00] well [1:13:01] it [1:13:02] was [1:13:03] highly [1:13:04] unconstitutional [1:13:05] and irregular [1:13:06] for [1:13:07] the [1:13:08] person [1:13:08] who [1:13:09] did [1:13:10] it [1:13:10] was [1:13:11] President [1:13:11] Druto [1:13:12] he [1:13:13] convened [1:13:15] a meeting [1:13:16] in [1:13:16] State [1:13:16] House [1:13:16] as [1:13:19] people [1:13:19] were [1:13:19] going [1:13:19] to [1:13:19] India [1:13:20] he [1:13:22] was [1:13:22] already [1:13:22] making [1:13:23] arrangements [1:13:24] of [1:13:24] how [1:13:24] that [1:13:25] position [1:13:26] was [1:13:27] going [1:13:27] to [1:13:27] be [1:13:28] given [1:13:29] to [1:13:29] somebody [1:13:29] else [1:13:30] and [1:13:31] you [1:13:33] know [1:13:33] I [1:13:35] think [1:13:36] Ruto [1:13:36] head [1:13:36] hunted [1:13:37] Oburu [1:13:38] for [1:13:38] that [1:13:38] position [1:13:39] and [1:13:40] then [1:13:40] convinced [1:13:41] people [1:13:42] like [1:13:43] Jeanette [1:13:46] Wanga [1:13:46] the [1:13:49] governor [1:13:49] of [1:13:49] Kisi [1:13:49] and [1:13:50] the [1:13:50] governor [1:13:51] of [1:13:51] Mombasa [1:13:51] who [1:13:51] were [1:13:52] at [1:13:52] that [1:13:52] meeting [1:13:52] in [1:13:53] State [1:13:54] House [1:13:54] in fact [1:13:54] Oburu [1:13:55] was [1:13:55] shocked [1:13:56] in [1:13:56] the [1:13:57] morning [1:13:57] where [1:13:57] the [1:13:57] airport [1:13:58] when [1:13:59] it [1:13:59] was [1:13:59] being [1:13:59] told [1:13:59] by [1:14:00] the [1:14:00] way [1:14:00] you [1:14:00] are [1:14:00] now [1:14:00] the [1:14:01] new [1:14:01] party [1:14:01] leader [1:14:03] you [1:14:03] know [1:14:03] in [1:14:04] Luo [1:14:04] custom [1:14:05] and [1:14:06] I [1:14:06] learned [1:14:06] even [1:14:07] the [1:14:07] lawyers [1:14:07] you [1:14:09] don't [1:14:09] take [1:14:09] over [1:14:09] somebody's [1:14:10] homestead [1:14:11] or [1:14:12] his [1:14:12] position [1:14:12] until [1:14:15] after [1:14:15] the [1:14:15] burial [1:14:15] and [1:14:17] after [1:14:17] the [1:14:18] burial [1:14:18] you [1:14:18] give [1:14:18] it [1:14:18] 2 [1:14:20] 3 [1:14:20] 4 [1:14:21] days [1:14:21] depending [1:14:22] on [1:14:22] whether [1:14:22] it's [1:14:22] a [1:14:23] man [1:14:23] or [1:14:23] woman [1:14:23] the [1:14:25] Pope [1:14:25] when [1:14:25] the Pope [1:14:26] dies [1:14:31] immediately [1:14:31] because [1:14:32] the [1:14:32] days [1:14:33] of [1:14:33] mourning [1:14:33] and [1:14:35] then [1:14:35] the [1:14:35] cardinals [1:14:35] go [1:14:35] to [1:14:36] Rome [1:14:36] after [1:14:37] the [1:14:38] burial [1:14:38] but [1:14:40] in [1:14:40] a [1:14:40] monarchy [1:14:41] is [1:14:41] where [1:14:41] you [1:14:42] say [1:14:42] the [1:14:43] king [1:14:43] is [1:14:43] dead [1:14:44] long [1:14:44] live [1:14:45] the [1:14:45] king [1:14:45] because [1:14:46] it's [1:14:46] a [1:14:46] line [1:14:47] of [1:14:47] succession [1:14:47] ODM [1:14:49] was [1:14:50] not [1:14:50] founded [1:14:51] on [1:14:52] monarchical [1:14:53] principles [1:14:54] so [1:14:56] this [1:14:57] question [1:14:57] of [1:14:57] handing [1:14:58] over [1:14:58] party [1:15:00] leadership [1:15:00] as if [1:15:01] it [1:15:01] was [1:15:01] you [1:15:02] know [1:15:03] some [1:15:03] monarchy [1:15:05] including [1:15:06] a [1:15:07] constitutional [1:15:07] monarchy [1:15:07] it doesn't [1:15:08] happen [1:15:08] that way [1:15:09] in [1:15:10] a [1:15:11] party [1:15:12] with [1:15:13] a [1:15:14] constitution [1:15:15] like [1:15:15] ODM [1:15:17] has [1:15:17] so [1:15:18] when [1:15:18] Oburu [1:15:18] was [1:15:18] being [1:15:18] told [1:15:19] you [1:15:19] were [1:15:20] there [1:15:20] we were [1:15:21] there [1:15:21] but [1:15:21] so [1:15:22] who [1:15:22] told [1:15:22] him [1:15:23] Junet [1:15:24] like [1:15:25] when [1:15:25] your [1:15:25] party [1:15:25] leader [1:15:25] then [1:15:26] what [1:15:27] did [1:15:27] he [1:15:27] say [1:15:27] well [1:15:28] he [1:15:29] he [1:15:30] was [1:15:30] pleasantly [1:15:30] surprised [1:15:31] I must [1:15:31] say [1:15:32] okay [1:15:33] yeah [1:15:33] it's [1:15:34] like [1:15:34] hmm [1:15:35] okay [1:15:38] I didn't [1:15:40] see it [1:15:40] coming [1:15:40] but [1:15:40] well [1:15:41] here [1:15:42] we [1:15:42] go [1:15:43] did [1:15:48] you [1:15:49] question [1:15:49] did [1:15:49] you [1:15:50] you know [1:15:51] at that [1:15:51] time [1:15:52] it was [1:15:52] difficult [1:15:52] to question [1:15:53] because [1:15:53] you know [1:15:54] our [1:15:54] focus [1:15:54] was [1:15:55] you know [1:15:56] three [1:15:56] four [1:15:56] days [1:15:57] for [1:15:57] Rila [1:15:58] has died [1:15:59] Rila's [1:15:59] body [1:16:00] is coming [1:16:00] you [1:16:02] go [1:16:02] to [1:16:02] arrange [1:16:02] for [1:16:02] his [1:16:03] funeral [1:16:03] within [1:16:04] four [1:16:04] days [1:16:05] state [1:16:08] funeral [1:16:08] you know [1:16:09] all [1:16:09] these [1:16:09] things [1:16:09] put [1:16:10] together [1:16:11] it [1:16:11] was [1:16:11] very [1:16:11] difficult [1:16:12] and [1:16:13] it [1:16:13] was [1:16:13] not [1:16:13] opportune [1:16:14] to [1:16:14] raise [1:16:15] those [1:16:15] questions [1:16:16] so [1:16:17] who [1:16:18] do [1:16:18] you [1:16:18] believe [1:16:18] would [1:16:19] have [1:16:19] been [1:16:19] better [1:16:19] placed [1:16:20] to [1:16:20] succeed [1:16:20] well [1:16:21] you [1:16:21] know [1:16:21] the [1:16:21] constitution [1:16:22] says [1:16:22] how [1:16:22] that [1:16:23] should [1:16:23] be [1:16:23] handled [1:16:23] that [1:16:24] one [1:16:25] of [1:16:25] the [1:16:25] deputy [1:16:25] party [1:16:26] leaders [1:16:26] acts [1:16:27] until [1:16:28] an [1:16:29] NDC [1:16:30] is [1:16:30] convened [1:16:30] now [1:16:32] even [1:16:32] after [1:16:35] all [1:16:36] this [1:16:36] has [1:16:36] happened [1:16:36] there [1:16:38] has [1:16:38] never [1:16:38] been [1:16:39] an [1:16:39] NDC [1:16:39] where [1:16:41] the [1:16:42] agenda [1:16:42] for [1:16:43] election [1:16:44] is [1:16:46] discussed [1:16:48] or [1:16:48] implemented [1:16:49] because [1:16:51] what they [1:16:52] were doing [1:16:52] affirmations [1:16:54] you know [1:16:55] Ruto says [1:16:55] this is the [1:16:57] leader [1:16:57] you go [1:16:58] to [1:16:59] the [1:17:00] management [1:17:01] committee [1:17:01] and then [1:17:03] you say [1:17:03] we agree [1:17:04] you go [1:17:05] to national [1:17:05] executive [1:17:06] committee [1:17:06] you say [1:17:07] we agree [1:17:07] you go [1:17:09] to [1:17:10] a special [1:17:11] NDC [1:17:11] we agree [1:17:13] let there [1:17:15] be peace [1:17:16] you want [1:17:17] problem [1:17:18] there is [1:17:18] supposed to [1:17:19] be an [1:17:19] election [1:17:19] and you [1:17:24] don't see [1:17:25] it happening [1:17:25] anytime soon [1:17:26] or later [1:17:27] it may [1:17:28] you know [1:17:29] miracles happen [1:17:30] but in the [1:17:31] meantime [1:17:31] we are saying [1:17:32] we don't want [1:17:33] to lose [1:17:33] this particular [1:17:34] audience [1:17:34] that's why [1:17:36] by popular [1:17:39] demand [1:17:39] and acclamation [1:17:43] I became [1:17:45] I became [1:17:45] the de facto [1:17:46] party leader [1:17:48] of the party [1:17:50] called [1:17:50] ODM [1:17:52] the others [1:17:54] are just [1:17:54] pretenders [1:17:55] to the throne [1:17:56] how about [1:17:57] their placeholders [1:17:58] they are pretenders [1:17:59] to the throne [1:18:00] by public demand [1:18:02] yeah [1:18:03] you know [1:18:04] like Baba [1:18:04] you know [1:18:05] when the elections [1:18:06] were stolen [1:18:07] I went to [1:18:08] Urupak [1:18:08] and say [1:18:09] it's the people's [1:18:10] president [1:18:10] okay [1:18:11] so you are [1:18:12] the people's [1:18:12] party leader [1:18:13] no [1:18:14] de facto [1:18:15] oh okay [1:18:16] Mabe [1:18:17] Mabe [1:18:18] you know [1:18:20] for a long time [1:18:21] Kenya was a [1:18:22] de facto [1:18:23] one party state [1:18:25] yeah [1:18:25] for a very long time [1:18:27] it was not [1:18:27] the jury [1:18:28] but for a de facto [1:18:30] party leader [1:18:31] some would say [1:18:34] the way the de facto [1:18:35] party leader [1:18:36] is carrying himself [1:18:37] is not [1:18:37] proper [1:18:38] the things he's saying [1:18:40] things he's doing [1:18:41] about a week ago [1:18:42] you had very serious [1:18:44] outbursts [1:18:46] about [1:18:46] Homo Bay governor [1:18:48] and guys were like [1:18:50] oh [1:18:50] Orengo [1:18:52] no [1:18:54] not Orengo [1:18:55] not Ajim [1:18:56] then you watch the video [1:18:57] again [1:18:58] you're like [1:18:58] no it is him [1:18:59] like what's happening [1:19:00] what was the public reaction [1:19:03] I don't think [1:19:04] it was what you're saying [1:19:06] well [1:19:07] go everywhere [1:19:09] everybody [1:19:11] of same mind [1:19:13] forget what [1:19:14] every other person [1:19:15] would feel [1:19:16] because politics [1:19:17] normally have [1:19:18] this thing [1:19:18] where when [1:19:19] politicians [1:19:20] speak [1:19:20] bad language [1:19:22] guys will [1:19:23] cheer you [1:19:24] like provided [1:19:25] they don't like [1:19:25] the other person [1:19:26] but you as a person [1:19:27] when you sit down [1:19:28] with yourself [1:19:28] do you feel like [1:19:29] it was something [1:19:30] proper [1:19:30] do you feel like [1:19:31] oh maybe I need to [1:19:32] apologize [1:19:32] people forgot [1:19:33] you know [1:19:34] had been [1:19:34] using that language [1:19:36] even in the presence [1:19:37] of president [1:19:38] Ruto in Migori [1:19:41] all I was saying [1:19:43] is that [1:19:43] you don't sell [1:19:45] your birthright [1:19:46] just like that [1:19:49] you have to fight [1:19:51] for it [1:19:51] so we have a situation [1:19:54] where people [1:19:54] just walk [1:19:56] into a situation [1:19:57] and sell [1:19:58] their birthright [1:19:59] and you know [1:20:03] I was saying [1:20:06] this directed [1:20:06] to the general [1:20:08] leadership in ODM [1:20:09] and membership [1:20:10] in ODM [1:20:11] and particularly [1:20:13] to the two [1:20:16] governors involved [1:20:17] if you have [1:20:18] people have played [1:20:19] what they have been [1:20:19] saying about me [1:20:21] about me [1:20:24] I'm not retaliating [1:20:26] you know [1:20:27] Newton's [1:20:28] third law of motion [1:20:29] for every action [1:20:32] oh there's an equal [1:20:33] opposite reaction [1:20:35] oh wow [1:20:39] so you don't see [1:20:40] like you [1:20:41] apologizing [1:20:43] or saying [1:20:43] let's make amends [1:20:45] I mean you [1:20:48] you apologize [1:20:49] when you have [1:20:50] done wrong [1:20:51] I'm very careful [1:20:54] with the words [1:20:55] I use in my [1:20:56] political life [1:20:57] in the [1:20:58] parliament [1:21:00] the entire history [1:21:02] I have not been [1:21:03] made to withdraw [1:21:04] a comment [1:21:05] in a long [1:21:06] long history [1:21:07] with [1:21:08] great debaters [1:21:11] like [1:21:12] Kibaki [1:21:12] Shikuku [1:21:14] many many [1:21:17] who are [1:21:17] very well versed [1:21:19] with political language [1:21:21] so I'm [1:21:22] always very [1:21:23] careful about [1:21:24] the content [1:21:27] of my speech [1:21:28] okay [1:21:29] but [1:21:30] when [1:21:32] people [1:21:34] forget [1:21:35] that they have [1:21:37] certain responsibilities [1:21:38] you want to remind them [1:21:40] yeah [1:21:41] they must be [1:21:42] reminded [1:21:42] on top of [1:21:43] a pick up [1:21:44] very strongly [1:21:46] reminded [1:21:46] and I'm glad [1:21:49] that [1:21:49] not so much [1:21:52] what I said [1:21:52] is in the [1:21:54] public domain [1:21:55] is in the social media [1:21:56] even in the newspapers [1:21:57] this is what [1:21:58] these other people [1:21:59] said [1:21:59] over time [1:22:01] you had [1:22:03] BBI [1:22:04] so [1:22:04] you're not gonna [1:22:05] build bridges [1:22:06] you know [1:22:07] you know [1:22:07] no I didn't [1:22:09] have BBI [1:22:10] you were part of [1:22:11] you were part of [1:22:11] I was the lawyer [1:22:13] yeah [1:22:14] for the [1:22:15] for the party [1:22:15] yeah [1:22:16] and [1:22:18] you know [1:22:20] the two [1:22:21] the two [1:22:22] principles [1:22:22] Zuhuru [1:22:23] and [1:22:24] and [1:22:25] Raila [1:22:26] we [1:22:27] we [1:22:27] we [1:22:27] we [1:22:28] we [1:22:28] we [1:22:28] we [1:22:29] we [1:22:30] we [1:22:30] Kongo Mugenie [1:22:31] and [1:22:33] Mutula Kilonzo [1:22:34] Junior [1:22:34] had registered [1:22:36] our [1:22:37] objections [1:22:38] to some of the content [1:22:40] in the BBI [1:22:41] document [1:22:43] but we're [1:22:45] persuaded [1:22:46] that in the name [1:22:48] of unity [1:22:48] and solidarity [1:22:49] we [1:22:52] we [1:22:53] we should [1:22:53] we should [1:22:54] as senior lawyers [1:22:55] represent [1:22:56] our [1:22:58] our [1:22:59] party [1:23:00] so you are [1:23:00] representing [1:23:01] something you don't [1:23:01] agree with [1:23:02] no I was [1:23:03] representing [1:23:03] the party [1:23:06] and actually [1:23:07] argued [1:23:09] what [1:23:11] I didn't [1:23:13] agree [1:23:14] with [1:23:14] in the sense [1:23:15] that when you [1:23:16] are [1:23:16] in a [1:23:17] movement [1:23:18] you're in a [1:23:19] party [1:23:19] you're in a [1:23:20] government [1:23:21] once a resolution [1:23:22] has been made [1:23:22] then you have [1:23:25] got to [1:23:25] support it [1:23:27] on the basis [1:23:28] of [1:23:29] you know [1:23:31] of discipline [1:23:33] within [1:23:34] the party [1:23:35] or the movement [1:23:36] collective responsibility [1:23:37] they call it [1:23:38] okay [1:23:38] now in the spirit [1:23:40] of BBI [1:23:40] you don't see [1:23:42] yourself [1:23:43] building [1:23:43] this bridge [1:23:45] here with [1:23:45] build what [1:23:49] kind of bridge [1:23:50] when he's [1:23:50] killed our party [1:23:51] okay [1:23:54] sorry [1:23:55] 10 point agenda [1:23:56] Raila [1:23:57] and [1:23:58] Raila said [1:24:00] the integrity [1:24:01] of political [1:24:02] parties [1:24:02] must [1:24:04] be [1:24:05] protected [1:24:05] and defended [1:24:06] you cannot [1:24:08] talk about [1:24:08] coalition [1:24:09] without [1:24:10] protecting [1:24:12] and defending [1:24:13] the integrity [1:24:13] of political [1:24:14] parties [1:24:14] and [1:24:15] these [1:24:17] demonstrations [1:24:18] of [1:24:19] ostentation [1:24:21] and opulence [1:24:23] must be [1:24:24] stopped [1:24:25] I mean [1:24:26] the way [1:24:26] we are [1:24:27] carrying ourselves [1:24:28] as if you [1:24:29] were a [1:24:30] first world [1:24:30] country [1:24:31] you know [1:24:31] there are [1:24:32] prime ministers [1:24:32] in Europe [1:24:33] who take [1:24:34] the train [1:24:35] and these [1:24:38] are countries [1:24:38] which will [1:24:39] give us [1:24:39] aid [1:24:40] you know [1:24:41] here every [1:24:42] year [1:24:42] and you find [1:24:43] a prime minister [1:24:44] on a bicycle [1:24:45] and here you find [1:24:48] you know [1:24:49] a newly [1:24:51] appointed [1:24:52] cabinet secretary [1:24:54] on choppers [1:24:58] and speaking of this [1:25:10] the same same party [1:25:11] so there's a [1:25:12] so it's split [1:25:14] into two [1:25:15] which [1:25:16] both of you [1:25:19] have refused [1:25:19] to agree on [1:25:20] some other [1:25:21] Linda Mwanainchi [1:25:22] faction [1:25:22] will agree [1:25:23] it's split [1:25:23] into two [1:25:23] but Linda [1:25:24] grounder [1:25:24] like [1:25:24] no no no [1:25:25] ODM [1:25:26] is one [1:25:26] not [1:25:27] it's [1:25:27] ODM [1:25:28] you know [1:25:28] the reason [1:25:31] why they say [1:25:33] ODM [1:25:33] is one [1:25:34] because [1:25:34] a recent [1:25:35] poll [1:25:36] showed [1:25:37] that [1:25:38] ODM [1:25:39] is still [1:25:40] the most [1:25:41] popular [1:25:41] party [1:25:42] although [1:25:42] it has [1:25:43] come down [1:25:44] on the polls [1:25:44] but [1:25:45] within it [1:25:46] the most [1:25:48] popular [1:25:48] wing of the [1:25:49] party [1:25:49] is Linda [1:25:50] Mwanainchi [1:25:50] 73% [1:25:52] as against [1:25:53] 24% [1:25:55] so they don't [1:25:56] want to be [1:25:56] reminded [1:25:57] that Linda [1:25:57] ground [1:25:58] is at [1:25:58] 24% [1:25:59] and Linda [1:26:00] Mwanainchi [1:26:00] is at [1:26:01] 73% [1:26:02] party [1:26:03] Mwanainchi [1:26:04] Mwanaji [1:26:04] Mwanaji [1:26:05] now [1:26:08] so this [1:26:10] is what I was [1:26:10] saying [1:26:10] so they've [1:26:11] been saying [1:26:12] this thing [1:26:12] I've sat [1:26:13] on with them [1:26:13] on Obina [1:26:13] show live [1:26:14] and they've [1:26:14] said [1:26:14] if you guys [1:26:16] really believe [1:26:17] that you are [1:26:18] strong [1:26:19] and people [1:26:19] love you [1:26:20] and other [1:26:20] people [1:26:20] I mean [1:26:27] that is [1:26:28] easily said [1:26:29] than done [1:26:30] why you guys [1:26:31] not [1:26:32] because we've got [1:26:33] responsibility [1:26:34] to the membership [1:26:35] there are people [1:26:37] who believe [1:26:38] that we must [1:26:39] defend and protect [1:26:40] the party [1:26:41] called ODM [1:26:42] as a party [1:26:44] there are followers [1:26:45] who take it [1:26:47] against us [1:26:49] if you are [1:26:50] to walk away [1:26:50] from the party [1:26:51] they want us [1:26:52] to fight [1:26:53] within the party [1:26:54] that's actually [1:26:55] the position [1:26:56] of Linda [1:26:57] Mwanainchi [1:26:57] that we want [1:26:58] to fight [1:26:59] from inside [1:26:59] and make sure [1:27:01] the party [1:27:03] is intact [1:27:05] based on [1:27:06] the principles [1:27:08] which are [1:27:08] well spent [1:27:09] well spent [1:27:10] well spelt [1:27:11] in the constitution [1:27:12] in the various [1:27:14] manifestos [1:27:15] in the [1:27:16] blueprints [1:27:17] in the [1:27:19] policy documents [1:27:20] but [1:27:22] so now [1:27:46] like [1:27:47] we are [1:27:48] with [1:27:49] most [1:27:50] of the membership [1:27:51] me I can say [1:27:52] actually [1:27:53] 80% [1:27:54] of the membership [1:27:54] of ODM [1:27:55] is supporting [1:27:56] the Linda [1:27:57] Mwanainchi [1:27:58] 30 [1:27:59] chairmen [1:28:01] or coordinators [1:28:04] of the party [1:28:05] called ODM [1:28:06] support Linda [1:28:08] Mwanainchi [1:28:08] including [1:28:09] the chairman [1:28:11] who comes [1:28:12] from [1:28:12] Higa County [1:28:13] 47 [1:28:16] and 30 [1:28:17] are with you [1:28:17] guys [1:28:18] and we are [1:28:19] soon holding [1:28:20] a meeting [1:28:20] with them [1:28:23] when [1:28:24] we [1:28:25] have [1:28:25] ODM [1:28:25] but [1:28:26] there [1:28:26] is [1:28:26] ODM [1:28:26] revolution [1:28:27] Orange [1:28:29] Democratic [1:28:29] revolution [1:28:30] so [1:28:30] ODR [1:28:31] then ODM [1:28:33] happened [1:28:34] some [1:28:34] many [1:28:35] at the moment [1:28:37] there is a lot [1:28:38] of confusion [1:28:38] there is [1:28:39] that for [1:28:39] oh [1:28:42] this is in the [1:28:43] original [1:28:43] we are [1:28:44] leaving the [1:28:44] spirit of [1:28:44] baba [1:28:45] no [1:28:45] you are [1:28:45] not [1:28:45] leaving [1:28:45] the [1:28:45] spirit [1:28:46] of [1:28:46] baba [1:28:46] you guys [1:28:46] are just [1:28:47] causing [1:28:47] chaos [1:28:47] you're [1:28:48] just [1:28:48] oh [1:28:49] when [1:28:50] you [1:28:50] hold [1:28:50] your [1:28:51] rallies [1:28:51] we [1:28:52] see [1:28:52] the [1:28:52] people [1:28:52] who [1:28:52] come [1:28:53] but [1:28:53] we [1:28:53] are [1:28:53] told [1:28:54] you [1:28:54] buy [1:28:55] the [1:28:55] crowds [1:28:55] the [1:28:56] crowd [1:28:56] is [1:28:57] doctored [1:28:57] would [1:28:58] you [1:28:58] buy [1:28:58] the [1:28:58] crowd [1:28:58] like [1:28:59] the [1:28:59] one [1:28:59] we [1:28:59] had [1:28:59] in [1:29:00] Kisumu [1:29:00] in [1:29:00] Kakamega [1:29:01] we [1:29:01] don't [1:29:02] carry [1:29:02] people [1:29:02] in [1:29:02] buses [1:29:03] they [1:29:07] are going [1:29:07] to have [1:29:07] a rally [1:29:07] in [1:29:08] Kisumu [1:29:08] 31st [1:29:09] head [1:29:11] to [1:29:11] head [1:29:12] now [1:29:12] in [1:29:12] machakos [1:29:13] you [1:29:13] not [1:29:13] see [1:29:13] any [1:29:14] buses [1:29:15] but [1:29:15] in [1:29:15] impale [1:29:16] utapata [1:29:17] watu [1:29:18] amekua [1:29:18] branded [1:29:19] school bus [1:29:24] church bus [1:29:24] ni kitu [1:29:25] ya kukasirikia [1:29:25] watu [1:29:25] wasiku [1:29:26] janeo [1:29:26] kwa rally [1:29:26] kwa sabu [1:29:27] wamelipua [1:29:28] unajua [1:29:29] bus [1:29:29] kutoka [1:29:30] kule [1:29:30] migori [1:29:31] kutoka [1:29:31] busia [1:29:33] watu [1:29:35] wakua [1:29:36] hukondani [1:29:37] na [1:29:38] wanaambiwa [1:29:39] ukifika [1:29:41] kwa [1:29:41] bus [1:29:41] kapa [1:29:42] unalipa [1:29:42] 2003 [1:29:43] utapata [1:29:44] 2001 [1:29:45] na [1:29:46] tukeona [1:29:47] kweli [1:29:47] umefika [1:29:48] kwa rally [1:29:50] utapata [1:29:51] ilishul [1:29:51] 2002 [1:29:52] nilikuwa [1:29:54] nasikia [1:29:55] moja [1:29:55] kisema [1:29:56] kwamba [1:29:56] katika [1:29:58] mkutano [1:29:58] ya [1:29:58] kisumu [1:30:00] on the [1:30:00] 31st [1:30:02] ukidia [1:30:02] mapema [1:30:03] utapata [1:30:04] soda [1:30:04] sasa [1:30:07] watu [1:30:07] achikunyo [1:30:08] sasa [1:30:08] mutusagina [1:30:10] number [1:30:11] chamba [1:30:12] ina [1:30:12] gani [1:30:13] soda [1:30:15] taungapi [1:30:16] unapeta [1:30:17] soda [1:30:18] kwenda [1:30:18] kisumu [1:30:18] 31st [1:30:19] we are calculating [1:30:22] with koreen [1:30:22] here [1:30:23] so [1:30:24] obina [1:30:24] tv [1:30:24] guys [1:30:25] kumbage [1:30:25] ni thao [1:30:26] ni ngapi [1:30:26] na [1:30:27] kuna [1:30:27] soda [1:30:27] mkuja [1:30:28] mape [1:30:28] wale [1:30:30] wa machakos [1:30:31] hakuna [1:30:31] soda [1:30:32] kuna [1:30:32] tear gas [1:30:32] by the way [1:30:34] walisema [1:30:35] munapanga [1:30:36] munajitupia [1:30:36] tear gas [1:30:37] kwa ralizen [1:30:37] zalinda [1:30:38] muwana [1:30:38] inchi [1:30:39] siwa [1:30:40] ndenofanya [1:30:40] kazi [1:30:41] na [1:30:41] serikali [1:30:41] siwa [1:30:42] nakuwanyesha [1:30:44] hii [1:30:45] tear gas [1:30:46] ili [1:30:46] tupo [1:30:46] na [1:30:46] fly [1:30:47] uleona [1:30:50] kule [1:30:50] kakamega [1:30:51] sufuna [1:30:52] lukunasema [1:30:52] inozima [1:30:53] hiyo kitu [1:30:54] kama [1:30:54] lakini [1:30:55] umusimpige [1:30:56] umusimpige [1:30:58] kama [1:31:00] ni tear gas [1:31:00] ni yetu [1:31:01] tunatakaje [1:31:03] kuzima [1:31:03] mwongo [1:31:07] mtu [1:31:07] semantiks [1:31:08] uumunyeshe [1:31:09] mumekimbizo [1:31:10] na mpulisi [1:31:10] uumujishike [1:31:12] uumuseme [1:31:13] hendi [1:31:13] watu waone [1:31:14] ni kama [1:31:14] munapigwa [1:31:15] nakuna [1:31:15] mkuna [1:31:15] napiga [1:31:16] vita [1:31:16] that's [1:31:17] a very [1:31:19] backward [1:31:19] mindset [1:31:20] very [1:31:20] primitive [1:31:21] wakati [1:31:22] huko [1:31:23] aliuliwa [1:31:24] na [1:31:25] serikali [1:31:25] walikua [1:31:26] asema [1:31:27] huko [1:31:27] alijipiga [1:31:28] risasi [1:31:28] akajichoma [1:31:30] some of these things [1:31:34] the lies [1:31:36] are apparent [1:31:37] kama [1:31:46] tungekwane [1:31:47] mkweli [1:31:47] hange [1:31:49] tungekwana [1:31:50] mkutano [1:31:50] every week [1:31:51] oh [1:31:52] kwenakulize [1:31:54] ule mtu [1:31:54] amba [1:31:55] natufanyia [1:31:56] public address [1:31:58] system [1:31:59] ni mtu [1:32:00] amba [1:32:01] tumefanya [1:32:01] kazi [1:32:01] na [1:32:01] tangu [1:32:02] zamani [1:32:03] kutoka [1:32:03] wakati [1:32:04] wajaramogi [1:32:05] amebaha [1:32:06] suti [1:32:07] every election [1:32:08] since [1:32:08] jaramogi [1:32:09] wakifikiri [1:32:09] hatu [1:32:10] meshinda [1:32:10] and [1:32:12] uulize [1:32:13] ukilipua [1:32:15] unalipo [1:32:16] konjegani [1:32:17] like we are going to [1:32:18] mchakos [1:32:19] hatujalipa [1:32:20] utapada ya [1:32:21] kwamba [1:32:21] mtu wametumaa [1:32:22] shininga [1:32:22] ilifamsini [1:32:23] mungine [1:32:24] ilifukumi [1:32:25] never a time [1:32:28] when we are like [1:32:29] we got [1:32:29] 10 million [1:32:30] to do [1:32:30] hamuna [1:32:30] maziwa [1:32:31] haku [1:32:32] so you are a broke [1:32:33] movement [1:32:34] we are not broke [1:32:35] the other side is broke [1:32:39] over ideas [1:32:40] touché [1:32:43] oh wow [1:32:45] okay [1:32:46] so wale wakona maziwa [1:32:48] wana ideas [1:32:49] njimu kona ideas [1:32:49] hamuna maziwa [1:32:50] ya lakini [1:32:52] si lazima tuwe na maziwa [1:32:53] unajua [1:32:54] when our forefathers [1:32:55] were fighting for [1:32:56] uhuru [1:32:57] haku wana maziwa [1:32:59] wale ingizi [1:33:02] wakule kapenguria [1:33:03] lord [1:33:04] kwa jela [1:33:06] hiko maziwa [1:33:08] na wangine [1:33:11] wakatoka [1:33:11] huko vila [1:33:12] meno [1:33:13] nini [1:33:13] mambo ni mingi [1:33:15] then how you guys [1:33:16] raising money [1:33:17] ya kufanya [1:33:18] ee campaign [1:33:18] because wame [1:33:19] angalia [1:33:21] wameangalia [1:33:21] sifuna [1:33:22] wakasema [1:33:22] eh sifuna [1:33:23] njewe [1:33:23] ana maziwa [1:33:25] wakangalia [1:33:25] babu [1:33:26] wakasema [1:33:26] babu [1:33:26] wana maziwa [1:33:27] wakangalia [1:33:28] governor [1:33:28] orango [1:33:28] wakasema [1:33:29] orango [1:33:29] kidogo [1:33:30] ana maziwa [1:33:31] ee [1:33:33] osoti [1:33:33] wui [1:33:34] ana maziwa [1:33:36] ee [1:33:37] onyonka [1:33:38] wui [1:33:38] that's why we are the party [1:33:43] that's why we are the party of the people [1:33:47] for the people by the people [1:33:50] we don't need [1:33:51] you know those kind of resources [1:33:54] so urua wafari [1:33:56] lakini simulize [1:33:58] nilikuwa kwa mazishi [1:33:59] kule kule nini [1:34:01] kule kirinyaga [1:34:02] huru alikuwa pane [1:34:03] kwa semu [1:34:04] huru [1:34:04] wana semu [1:34:05] unatupatia pesa [1:34:07] na hawa [1:34:07] mbao [1:34:08] wanasema [1:34:08] unatupatia pesa [1:34:10] they were your own people [1:34:12] wakati [1:34:14] wa handshake [1:34:15] angalia mapicha [1:34:17] mbao huru [1:34:17] wana piga [1:34:18] na watu [1:34:18] ya ODM [1:34:20] ni haa watu [1:34:22] who are the people [1:34:22] haa watu [1:34:24] wako kwa [1:34:24] suseme to you [1:34:25] why you [1:34:27] going around the booth [1:34:28] si umesasema [1:34:29] hata we umejua [1:34:31] si picha zito [1:34:33] nikitu wazi [1:34:35] akiwapea mutakata [1:34:36] nani [1:34:37] uuru [1:34:37] wakiseme [1:34:38] ataka kufund [1:34:39] yyo lina mwananchi [1:34:40] i mean if he becomes a member [1:34:42] if he becomes a member [1:34:44] you wani mribigama member [1:34:46] we had [1:34:47] we were recruiting members [1:34:50] no but people walk out of political parties [1:34:53] to join others [1:34:54] yeah which is also the other story about your party [1:34:56] there's those stories for [1:34:57] your party is full of people from many other parties [1:35:00] you're not representing ODM [1:35:01] no no no [1:35:02] lakini [1:35:02] lakini [1:35:03] who [1:35:04] who is not [1:35:05] wana sema linda mwanainchi [1:35:06] kwa sujui na mutu [1:35:07] sujua metoka sujui [1:35:08] unajua kulikuwa kabla ya linda mwanainchi [1:35:11] kulikuwa na caucus ya Kenya moja [1:35:13] na kulikuwa na wabunge [1:35:16] kutoka kwa vyama vingine [1:35:18] kama [1:35:19] wiper [1:35:20] na [1:35:23] na nafikiri ni wiper pekeake [1:35:25] kwa sabu wawengine [1:35:26] ni wawodia [1:35:28] okay [1:35:29] aya [1:35:31] all the best [1:35:32] si tutatizama hapa pole pole tuone [1:35:34] umasema machakos ni 31st [1:35:36] 31st [1:35:37] wato wana kuja na nini [1:35:38] wakuje tu [1:35:38] wakuje [1:35:39] wakuje [1:35:40] na na na [1:35:41] machakos nionda kwa kanisa [1:35:42] atuja kubadea na itakuwa kanisa gani [1:35:45] then we have a rally in machakos [1:35:47] then a rally in mudodongo the same day [1:35:50] oh so munatoka machakos mkirudi [1:35:52] mkirudi [1:35:53] mwa mbukia [1:35:55] muna stopishwa before mufike [1:35:57] in destination [1:35:59] okay [1:36:01] sawa [1:36:02] at the moment [1:36:04] the country is not in a very [1:36:06] nice state [1:36:07] yeah [1:36:08] economically [1:36:09] people are complaining [1:36:11] then now [1:36:14] about a few days ago [1:36:15] there was a story about fuel [1:36:16] and then now there was [1:36:18] manamano [1:36:19] then matatus [1:36:20] striked [1:36:21] then they were called [1:36:22] then they said to me [1:36:23] suspend [1:36:24] then saise sawame [1:36:25] they're back to business [1:36:26] what do you think about all of this [1:36:28] fuel situation [1:36:29] and is it being handled [1:36:30] could it have been handled better [1:36:32] I think it would have been handled better [1:36:33] because our neighbors are showing that they're handling it better [1:36:35] but I think [1:36:37] there's so much wasted in government [1:36:41] wastage [1:36:42] that the government is short on money [1:36:44] we are borrowing [1:36:45] because we can't collect enough taxes [1:36:49] to do some of these projects that are being done all over [1:36:54] so in order to [1:36:56] get this [1:36:58] some of these things going [1:36:59] and to enable the president to go all over the world [1:37:02] we have to sell [1:37:04] safaricom [1:37:04] we are going to recoil [1:37:06] Kenya pipeline [1:37:07] we are selling our crown jewels [1:37:10] for god's sake [1:37:12] safaricom [1:37:13] just one financial year [1:37:14] this financial year [1:37:16] is contributing [1:37:17] to the treasury [1:37:20] 16 billion [1:37:21] shillings [1:37:22] would you want to sell [1:37:23] such an asset [1:37:24] the only asset that is making sense [1:37:28] because the others [1:37:29] are making losses [1:37:31] so [1:37:33] the fuel crisis [1:37:35] is also showing what [1:37:38] George [1:37:40] Herbert Bush [1:37:42] Bush the first [1:37:44] was calling [1:37:45] voodoo economics [1:37:47] you [1:37:48] you know [1:37:49] they're telling us [1:37:50] they're telling us [1:37:50] you know [1:37:51] we have increased the price [1:37:52] but now that you are [1:37:55] not so happy [1:37:57] we are bringing it down [1:37:58] so it's like [1:37:59] you're being done a favor [1:38:00] I mean [1:38:02] why bring it down [1:38:04] by 10 shillings [1:38:05] and again [1:38:06] by 10 shillings [1:38:07] why didn't you start [1:38:09] at that reasonable [1:38:10] increase [1:38:11] of 30 [1:38:13] or 20 shillings [1:38:14] why must it be [1:38:15] 60 shillings [1:38:16] and then you work [1:38:18] again [1:38:18] downwards [1:38:19] and you're still saying [1:38:21] that makes sense [1:38:22] and you are working [1:38:24] with experts [1:38:25] what kind of [1:38:27] politics is that [1:38:29] what kind of [1:38:29] economics is that [1:38:30] what kinds of [1:38:32] financial studies [1:38:33] trial and error [1:38:36] yeah [1:38:36] however [1:38:41] there's this story [1:38:42] that is going around [1:38:43] I don't know if you've heard it [1:38:44] that the story [1:38:45] for the fuel [1:38:46] hike [1:38:47] is a deviation tactic [1:38:48] is a decoy [1:38:49] that the real story [1:38:50] is a finance bill [1:38:51] and guys are talking [1:38:54] fuel [1:38:54] but finance bill [1:38:55] is being [1:38:55] pretty sure [1:38:56] I think it's on Monday [1:38:57] I think that finance bill [1:38:59] is also going to bring [1:39:00] a lot of problems [1:39:01] okay [1:39:02] yeah because [1:39:02] it's not [1:39:04] as far as I'm concerned [1:39:05] being subjected [1:39:07] to public participation [1:39:09] rigorous public participation [1:39:12] so it is going to be [1:39:13] one problem [1:39:14] on top of another [1:39:15] and then after [1:39:16] the finance bill [1:39:17] there's the [1:39:18] Gen Z's [1:39:20] 25th of June [1:39:22] and then after [1:39:23] 25th of June [1:39:24] there's Sabah Sabah [1:39:25] I don't know [1:39:27] you're celebrating [1:39:29] I'm not celebrating [1:39:30] I can see [1:39:32] the look on your face [1:39:33] no no no [1:39:35] no no [1:39:35] they asked for it [1:39:38] but you should go [1:39:39] like imagine [1:39:40] after this [1:39:41] Sabah Sabah [1:39:42] you know [1:39:43] when [1:39:43] when Uhuru [1:39:44] was having these problems [1:39:45] and the war [1:39:48] in Ukraine [1:39:48] and Russia [1:39:50] was going on [1:39:50] and it's still going on [1:39:51] here the speeches [1:39:53] of these characters [1:39:54] who are in government [1:39:55] now [1:39:55] saying [1:39:57] that war [1:39:58] cannot affect [1:39:59] the final crisis [1:40:00] yeah [1:40:01] true [1:40:01] these are hypocrites [1:40:03] but maybe they didn't know [1:40:05] now is when they're like [1:40:07] okay wait a minute [1:40:08] then [1:40:09] then [1:40:09] then why [1:40:10] accept to be called an expert [1:40:11] otherwise [1:40:15] as a sir [1:40:15] me [1:40:16] pata kitu [1:40:16] nasuke [1:40:19] watu wa matatu [1:40:19] by there [1:40:24] there's been that story [1:40:25] with all due respect [1:40:27] with all due respect [1:40:29] one minute [1:40:30] guys are saying [1:40:31] we've not agreed [1:40:32] with the other one [1:40:32] we have agreed [1:40:33] guys are like [1:40:33] wait a minute [1:40:34] with respect [1:40:35] oh that was due respect [1:40:38] by then [1:40:39] now we have a new name [1:40:40] we have a new name [1:40:42] for that one [1:40:42] do you see us [1:40:44] coming back [1:40:45] to the place [1:40:47] where we were [1:40:47] maybe [1:40:48] let's say [1:40:50] kibaki time [1:40:50] because until now [1:40:52] most people are saying [1:40:53] kibaki was the best [1:40:53] president they ever had [1:40:54] no not with the [1:40:55] YK92 rule in Kenya [1:40:57] oh wow [1:40:58] that's how [1:41:01] that's the direction [1:41:02] we are going [1:41:02] YK92 [1:41:03] you know [1:41:04] it is [1:41:05] it's a youth [1:41:06] I'm a fierce [1:41:08] kind of movement [1:41:09] within [1:41:09] a political [1:41:11] movement [1:41:12] YK92 [1:41:13] if you look [1:41:15] at [1:41:15] the men [1:41:17] around the [1:41:18] presidency [1:41:18] that is [1:41:23] the thinking [1:41:24] you know [1:41:24] you don't believe [1:41:25] he means well [1:41:26] you know [1:41:27] anybody who carries [1:41:28] a bible [1:41:29] you know [1:41:32] those are [1:41:34] hypocrites [1:41:35] so [1:41:35] you want [1:41:38] people to say [1:41:39] you are carrying [1:41:40] a bible [1:41:40] anything good [1:41:47] that [1:41:47] president [1:41:48] has done [1:41:49] so far [1:41:50] anything good [1:41:52] just one [1:41:53] has he told you [1:41:54] one that [1:41:54] no [1:41:55] from your observation [1:41:56] because you know [1:41:57] even a broken [1:41:58] clock is normally [1:41:59] right [1:41:59] is it once a day [1:42:00] he successfully [1:42:01] stole an election [1:42:02] whether that was [1:42:03] good or bad [1:42:05] this election [1:42:06] you didn't know [1:42:08] no but [1:42:09] but you [1:42:10] there's a team [1:42:11] that has been [1:42:11] saying [1:42:12] from ODM [1:42:12] side [1:42:13] that [1:42:13] then [1:42:17] there are people [1:42:17] saying you [1:42:17] can't steal [1:42:18] an election [1:42:18] the people [1:42:19] are saying [1:42:19] baba has [1:42:20] never won [1:42:21] an election [1:42:21] the other [1:42:22] people are [1:42:22] saying [1:42:22] baba may [1:42:23] be [1:42:23] elections [1:42:23] so tell us [1:42:34] from your side [1:42:35] so tuwanze [1:42:36] na hiya [1:42:36] juzi [1:42:37] did baba win [1:42:37] he won [1:42:39] akachezewa [1:42:41] akachezewa [1:42:41] karata [1:42:42] na wanaona [1:42:43] four commissioners [1:42:45] at the time [1:42:46] for them [1:42:48] to be [1:42:49] at BOMAS [1:42:50] crucial [1:42:51] that [1:42:52] the [1:42:53] electrical commission [1:42:54] sit [1:42:54] together [1:42:56] to make a decision [1:42:57] as a college [1:42:57] is that not a [1:43:04] crisis [1:43:05] if it was [1:43:10] free and [1:43:11] fair [1:43:11] election [1:43:12] they should [1:43:13] have been [1:43:13] speaking with [1:43:14] one voice [1:43:14] you've seen [1:43:24] the by elections [1:43:25] that are happening [1:43:25] is that a [1:43:27] deep stick [1:43:27] of what is [1:43:28] going to [1:43:28] happen in [1:43:28] 2027 [1:43:29] no by [1:43:30] elections [1:43:30] are normally [1:43:31] not quite [1:43:32] a reflection [1:43:32] of what is [1:43:33] coming [1:43:33] in the [1:43:34] elections [1:43:35] but [1:43:36] the signals [1:43:37] could be [1:43:38] bad [1:43:38] if [1:43:40] a party [1:43:40] like [1:43:40] DCP [1:43:41] can [1:43:41] record [1:43:42] those [1:43:43] number [1:43:43] of [1:43:43] votes [1:43:43] in [1:43:45] NAROC [1:43:46] particularly [1:43:48] in that [1:43:48] constituency [1:43:49] and [1:43:50] when you [1:43:51] hear the [1:43:51] president [1:43:51] going to [1:43:52] his backyard [1:43:53] and saying [1:43:54] in his own [1:43:55] language [1:43:55] you people [1:43:56] have let me [1:43:57] down [1:43:57] you have not [1:43:58] registered [1:43:59] as voters [1:43:59] that's not [1:44:01] a language [1:44:01] it's [1:44:02] somebody [1:44:03] with confidence [1:44:04] even people [1:44:06] from his own [1:44:06] backyard [1:44:07] are saying [1:44:08] by not [1:44:09] registering [1:44:10] as voters [1:44:11] that we [1:44:13] don't like [1:44:14] what's [1:44:15] happening [1:44:15] the country [1:44:17] is not [1:44:17] on a [1:44:18] proper [1:44:19] trajectory [1:44:20] that's the [1:44:22] only reason [1:44:23] there should [1:44:23] be [1:44:23] enthusiasm [1:44:24] in that [1:44:24] area [1:44:25] do you [1:44:26] seem [1:44:27] winning [1:44:28] in 2027 [1:44:29] how [1:44:30] unless [1:44:33] it steals [1:44:33] again [1:44:34] I mean [1:44:38] somebody [1:44:38] who got [1:44:39] nearly [1:44:40] 5 million [1:44:41] votes [1:44:41] in the [1:44:42] central [1:44:42] part [1:44:43] of Kenya [1:44:43] and it [1:44:44] doesn't [1:44:45] have [1:44:45] those [1:44:45] 5 million [1:44:46] votes [1:44:46] or the [1:44:48] 1 million [1:44:49] votes [1:44:49] that [1:44:49] got [1:44:49] from [1:44:50] that [1:44:50] area [1:44:50] why [1:44:51] is [1:44:51] he [1:44:51] going [1:44:52] to [1:44:52] get [1:44:52] these [1:44:52] votes [1:44:52] I'm [1:44:56] just [1:44:56] taking [1:44:56] that [1:44:56] one [1:44:57] part [1:44:57] of [1:44:57] the [1:44:57] country [1:44:58] and [1:45:00] even [1:45:00] in [1:45:01] Luland [1:45:01] where [1:45:01] people [1:45:02] think [1:45:02] he [1:45:02] may [1:45:02] get [1:45:02] votes [1:45:03] yes [1:45:05] how [1:45:06] how [1:45:06] even [1:45:09] today [1:45:10] there [1:45:11] was [1:45:11] a [1:45:12] burial [1:45:12] in [1:45:12] a [1:45:13] haro [1:45:13] somewhere [1:45:13] in [1:45:13] a [1:45:13] haro [1:45:14] and [1:45:15] one [1:45:17] time [1:45:17] rang the [1:45:17] air [1:45:17] until [1:45:18] the [1:45:18] priest [1:45:18] said [1:45:18] please [1:45:20] that [1:45:21] is [1:45:21] not [1:45:21] noise [1:45:22] there's [1:45:22] an [1:45:22] expression [1:45:24] of [1:45:25] the [1:45:27] suffering [1:45:28] of [1:45:28] the [1:45:28] people [1:45:28] if [1:45:31] Baba [1:45:31] knew [1:45:31] he [1:45:31] won [1:45:31] why [1:45:32] did [1:45:32] he [1:45:32] not [1:45:33] pursue [1:45:34] till [1:45:34] the [1:45:34] end [1:45:35] Raela [1:45:36] is [1:45:36] very [1:45:37] peaceful [1:45:37] and [1:45:38] if [1:45:38] there [1:45:39] were [1:45:39] disagreements [1:45:40] we [1:45:40] had [1:45:40] with [1:45:40] him [1:45:41] it [1:45:42] was [1:45:42] the [1:45:43] manner [1:45:43] in [1:45:43] which [1:45:43] sometimes [1:45:44] we [1:45:45] handled [1:45:46] our [1:45:46] post-relation [1:45:47] crisis [1:45:47] he [1:45:49] did [1:45:49] not [1:45:49] like [1:45:50] blood [1:45:51] in [1:45:52] the [1:45:52] streets [1:45:52] or [1:45:53] people [1:45:54] fighting [1:45:55] and [1:45:55] killing [1:45:55] each [1:45:56] other [1:45:56] because [1:45:57] of [1:45:57] an [1:45:57] election [1:45:58] that [1:45:58] is [1:45:58] a [1:45:59] trait [1:45:59] he [1:46:00] was [1:46:00] a [1:46:00] peacemaker [1:46:00] that [1:46:02] character [1:46:02] of [1:46:03] Raela [1:46:03] Amolodinga [1:46:04] people [1:46:04] have [1:46:04] not [1:46:04] quite [1:46:05] understood [1:46:06] if [1:46:07] if [1:46:09] you [1:46:09] are [1:46:10] somebody [1:46:10] like [1:46:10] me [1:46:11] you [1:46:11] know [1:46:11] they [1:46:13] talk [1:46:13] about [1:46:14] in [1:46:14] the [1:46:14] states [1:46:15] they [1:46:15] say [1:46:16] there [1:46:17] is [1:46:17] a [1:46:17] field [1:46:17] negro [1:46:18] and [1:46:18] a [1:46:19] house [1:46:19] negro [1:46:19] and [1:46:20] when [1:46:20] their [1:46:20] master's [1:46:21] house [1:46:21] is [1:46:21] burning [1:46:22] the [1:46:23] field [1:46:23] negro [1:46:24] would [1:46:25] be [1:46:25] praying [1:46:25] for [1:46:25] more [1:46:26] wind [1:46:26] so [1:46:27] that [1:46:27] the [1:46:27] house [1:46:27] may [1:46:27] burn [1:46:28] and [1:46:29] the [1:46:29] house [1:46:29] negro [1:46:29] would [1:46:30] be [1:46:30] saying [1:46:30] oh [1:46:30] a [1:46:31] house [1:46:31] is [1:46:32] burning [1:46:32] and [1:46:32] really [1:46:33] work [1:46:33] hard [1:46:34] to [1:46:35] put [1:46:35] off [1:46:36] the [1:46:36] fire [1:46:36] now [1:46:37] in [1:46:38] in [1:46:39] 2023 [1:46:40] when [1:46:42] jenzis [1:46:43] broke [1:46:45] into [1:46:45] parliament [1:46:45] i mean [1:46:47] some [1:46:49] people [1:46:50] were [1:46:50] saying [1:46:50] you know [1:46:51] in [1:46:51] mzuri [1:46:52] sana [1:46:52] he should [1:46:54] be brought [1:46:54] to [1:46:54] to [1:46:56] conclusion [1:46:57] logical [1:46:58] conclusion [1:46:59] baba [1:46:59] and [1:47:00] he [1:47:01] joined [1:47:01] the [1:47:03] president [1:47:03] and [1:47:03] told [1:47:03] no [1:47:03] he [1:47:04] said [1:47:04] he [1:47:04] didn't [1:47:04] want [1:47:06] bloodshed [1:47:11] that was [1:47:11] the reason [1:47:12] why [1:47:12] he didn't [1:47:12] want [1:47:13] bloodshed [1:47:13] because a lot [1:47:13] of jenzis [1:47:14] felt betrayed [1:47:14] by baba [1:47:15] then [1:47:15] because [1:47:16] you [1:47:16] like [1:47:16] baba [1:47:17] come [1:47:17] on [1:47:17] for [1:47:19] the [1:47:19] first [1:47:19] time [1:47:19] yeah [1:47:19] but [1:47:21] you [1:47:21] know [1:47:21] how [1:47:23] do [1:47:23] revolutions [1:47:24] happen [1:47:24] in [1:47:26] sri [1:47:26] lanka [1:47:26] in [1:47:27] nepal [1:47:27] in [1:47:28] the [1:47:28] united [1:47:29] states [1:47:29] itself [1:47:29] yeah [1:47:30] you [1:47:30] know [1:47:31] that's [1:47:33] how [1:47:33] it [1:47:33] starts [1:47:34] that's [1:47:34] how [1:47:34] it [1:47:34] happens [1:47:35] okay [1:47:36] now [1:47:37] if [1:47:37] you [1:47:37] look [1:47:37] at [1:47:37] the [1:47:38] current [1:47:38] government [1:47:38] the [1:47:39] relationship [1:47:40] between [1:47:40] the [1:47:40] president [1:47:40] and [1:47:41] his [1:47:41] deputy [1:47:41] how [1:47:41] do [1:47:41] you [1:47:42] see [1:47:42] it [1:47:42] do [1:47:43] you [1:47:43] see [1:47:43] him [1:47:44] picking [1:47:44] him [1:47:45] as [1:47:45] a [1:47:45] running [1:47:45] mate [1:47:46] do [1:47:46] you [1:47:47] see [1:47:47] we've [1:47:47] had [1:47:47] stories [1:47:48] that [1:47:48] wanga [1:47:48] will [1:47:49] be [1:47:49] no [1:47:50] I [1:47:50] think [1:47:51] it'll [1:47:51] stick [1:47:51] to [1:47:52] to [1:47:53] kindiki [1:47:53] one [1:47:55] is [1:47:55] still [1:47:55] hoping [1:47:55] that [1:47:56] the [1:47:58] boats [1:47:58] that [1:47:58] he [1:47:59] can [1:47:59] still [1:47:59] get [1:47:59] from [1:48:01] that [1:48:02] area [1:48:02] is [1:48:04] critical [1:48:04] and [1:48:06] he [1:48:06] probably [1:48:06] cannot [1:48:07] get [1:48:07] it [1:48:07] anywhere [1:48:08] else [1:48:08] in [1:48:09] the [1:48:09] numbers [1:48:09] he [1:48:10] imagines [1:48:11] and [1:48:13] I [1:48:13] think [1:48:14] most [1:48:17] presidents [1:48:18] like [1:48:19] people [1:48:20] who [1:48:20] are [1:48:21] given [1:48:21] tasks [1:48:22] you [1:48:22] know [1:48:23] and [1:48:23] they [1:48:23] do [1:48:23] without [1:48:25] questioning [1:48:26] all [1:48:29] over [1:48:29] the [1:48:30] world [1:48:30] Obama [1:48:36] did [1:48:36] that [1:48:36] with [1:48:37] what [1:48:39] was [1:48:39] the [1:48:39] name [1:48:40] of [1:48:40] the [1:48:40] president [1:48:41] Biden [1:48:42] Obama [1:48:43] used [1:48:44] to [1:48:44] send [1:48:44] Biden [1:48:44] when [1:48:45] he [1:48:45] was [1:48:46] the [1:48:46] secretary [1:48:47] of [1:48:47] state [1:48:47] yeah [1:48:48] Biden [1:48:49] was [1:48:50] vice [1:48:51] president [1:48:52] but [1:48:52] as [1:48:53] senator [1:48:54] he [1:48:55] chaired [1:48:56] the [1:48:57] Senate [1:48:58] Foreign [1:48:59] Relations [1:48:59] Committee [1:49:00] so he [1:49:01] had [1:49:01] a lot [1:49:01] of [1:49:02] understanding [1:49:03] of [1:49:05] foreign [1:49:06] relations [1:49:06] as a [1:49:07] whole [1:49:07] but [1:49:08] they [1:49:09] had [1:49:09] a [1:49:09] special [1:49:10] relationship [1:49:11] certain [1:49:12] strengths [1:49:12] that [1:49:13] Obama [1:49:14] you know [1:49:15] capitalized [1:49:16] on [1:49:16] and [1:49:17] needed [1:49:18] you know [1:49:19] because [1:49:19] Obama [1:49:19] was [1:49:21] a [1:49:22] senator [1:49:23] in [1:49:24] Chicago [1:49:25] in [1:49:26] Illinois [1:49:26] and [1:49:28] then [1:49:28] he [1:49:29] became [1:49:29] a [1:49:29] senator [1:49:29] and [1:49:31] he [1:49:33] didn't [1:49:33] go [1:49:33] for [1:49:33] second [1:49:33] time [1:49:34] he [1:49:34] went [1:49:35] for [1:49:35] the [1:49:35] presidency [1:49:35] so [1:49:36] you [1:49:36] need [1:49:36] some [1:49:37] people [1:49:37] with [1:49:37] little [1:49:37] experience [1:49:38] around [1:49:38] you [1:49:38] okay [1:49:39] yeah [1:49:39] forth [1:49:41] 생 [1:49:59] at the moment [1:50:00] I'm still observing [1:50:01] you guys [1:50:01] but [1:50:02] I've always said [1:50:03] mimi [1:50:03] kwa nababu kwa sababu yeah yeah oh then then it looks like you yeah i can know where you are [1:50:13] but i'm observing everything that is happening we see guys crossing i've always told [1:50:18] many of my followers was uak politics kwa roho because unaka unasema mimi [1:50:26] then next month now you know guys we have decided [1:50:30] okay i will go based on what is happening like myself if this police brutality i'll be on the [1:50:43] streets and i'll say no if the finance bill is bad the way we've seen it we'll break it out on [1:50:48] lobina show live and i'll say hey because of a b c d i'm going on the street because of the finance [1:50:52] bill i'm going because of this but i'll not say i'm going because but you know that happens [1:51:00] because we have militarized politics we have uh weaponized uh you know the gunism as a as a tool [1:51:09] of politics it was never like this yeah yeah you you could walk into any space even on top of a [1:51:17] table like this tell people to come around and you just start speaking what other skizer [1:51:23] what are you going to do but now uh it's like preparing for war yeah it's it's getting to a very [1:51:35] bad place where if you don't agree with my person or my ideologies you want to beat me yeah you saw [1:51:42] the lady that was somewhat because she had tattoos of yeah yeah yeah yeah she lost the life those are the [1:51:47] kind of things that should never happen and uh yeah the president has never talked about it actually [1:51:54] i mean persistently to show that uh you know this is dangerous for kenya that we are likely to [1:52:03] be another height i thought you would be uh making very strong statements having sent our policemen to [1:52:11] haiti because the experience of haiti uh when papa dog came into power and baby doc was to weapon weaponize [1:52:22] uh uh youth uh the tonton makut uh aligona jish okay and asasa kateka sese a kenya bila kwanajish [1:52:34] it's hard it's very hard but you know it talks with leaders like you as well even before he gets [1:52:39] the president you babu sifuna no no but but but but he do the person with constitutional powers and mandate [1:52:50] to make sure this does not happen is the president but at the moment he's receiving hostility so [1:52:57] the people who are people's favorite like you and the linda monache team you would call out [1:53:03] violence strongly and condemn it and tell people no no we will condemn our own person our own [1:53:10] senior member of linda monache was brutally beaten whether we were having a rally in in kisumu [1:53:17] uh i mean you had a member of parliament saying the other day in kisumu that you people are cowards [1:53:25] these people should be wrote the word [1:53:31] you know that word yeah and guys by the reason in ingulu award yeah it's in the dictionary you can google [1:53:39] it it's uh so it makes you know being in in opposition very difficult and of course the uh [1:53:58] money has become such a an important currency in our politics basically because people need these goons and [1:54:07] and the rest okay okay okay [1:54:14] ndakuli zamisijui ya singa shikuwa mimi [1:54:18] vila inashikuwa shikuwa i have never been arrested for you my pigwa nagoons [1:54:22] eh nimesha pigwa nagoons he wangalee mkona angu siwazi kuhikunja oh [1:54:29] oh maguns yeah maguns so kifanye imuta tafikino na mtukana kumeni mkona [1:54:38] if i if i opened up myself [1:54:39] kubani mkona jikunji [1:55:03] namenozango easy hey menako piani ngumi ya magunzi yeah yeah yeah and a police [1:55:08] okay now we have the Africa forward summit got concluded and also it received different types [1:55:21] of reactions that people supported there there's a lot of backlash as well online about it what [1:55:25] was your take on it I think it looks big when many presidents come into your country and you [1:55:31] host such a conference but I but I think the old imperial powers are looking for new ways [1:55:37] to continue to exploit the third world so when they hold a meeting in Africa a meeting which they [1:55:46] normally would hold in France you have all the good impressions but if you look at whatever comes out [1:55:58] of the meeting yeah the the imperial power is the one which gains they still control our oil they still [1:56:06] control our minerals they still control trade you know so when would this new this world order change [1:56:17] it cannot change when the real host of the meeting like you know the summit was presided over by the [1:56:30] president of France I said it Samson chiral gay also pushed a motion at the Senate about the review and [1:56:46] withdrawal for president who's benefits claiming that he's involved in active politics what what do you [1:56:56] think because you've been a senator before twice yeah what do you think of I mean I think I think is is [1:57:03] doing it because it's got a political agenda but in reality take the example of the last campaigns in [1:57:13] the United States of America was Obama active or not active was Biden active in comparing but what what does [1:57:24] our constitution say you are the working cause yeah yeah it's supposed to yeah I mean they are not [1:57:32] supposed to get into positions like the presidency yeah but I think the basic constitution provides for the [1:57:44] rights of every individual to belong to a party and the whole positions in a political party unless you're a state [1:57:55] officer yeah so we are wrapping up Lakini quickfire okay so when I mention a name you just say what you're [1:58:05] thinking about the person or the situation matiangi tough guy well played [1:58:15] very safe choice of words Kalonzo likable okay okay okay matakarua opinionated okay strong in our beliefs okay [1:58:47] really yeah so it's interesting everybody yeah exactly yeah thank you we're doing that I have a [1:59:22] He's a regional leader of some might. [1:59:32] Why would you put him as a regional leader? [1:59:33] You don't feel like he has... [1:59:34] Because he's concentrated in an area. [1:59:41] We know that he has a relationship with the United Opposition, [1:59:45] but he really never gets out of the Western region. [1:59:52] Okay. [1:59:53] But I think he stands firm on what he believes and says. [2:00:03] Okay. [2:00:05] Wanga. [2:00:08] Wanga. [2:00:12] Komsi komsa. [2:00:17] Oh, wow. [2:00:20] Junet. [2:00:28] Transactional. [2:00:31] Oh, wow. [2:00:32] Okay. [2:00:35] Oburu. [2:00:38] I'm going home. [2:00:44] Who are you? [2:00:44] I'm home. [2:00:50] I'm home. [2:00:54] Okay. [2:00:59] Okay, guys. [2:01:00] I just want to say the opinions. [2:01:04] The video cheze na disclaimer. [2:01:06] Lakini, itugikwa suit kwa hii episode. [2:01:08] Wakili ni mja. [2:01:09] Ni mjamo. [2:01:11] Now, Mwesh, unajuele episode yako. [2:01:14] Sasi ufanya, ufanya manyo ufanya. [2:01:16] Okay, Winnie. [2:01:24] Good girl. [2:01:27] Okay. [2:01:28] With a lot of talent. [2:01:32] Okay. [2:01:34] Sifuna. [2:01:38] A fighter that I want to have on my side anytime. [2:01:42] Okay. [2:01:48] Mbadi. [2:01:49] I can't call him an expat. [2:02:00] What is the opposite of an expat? [2:02:02] Mwes, nwek, kwa noma yako. [2:02:06] Mime, siko. [2:02:12] Babu. [2:02:14] Comrade. [2:02:22] Sakaja. [2:02:25] Sakaja. [2:02:26] It's like a majodomo. [2:02:28] It's like a majodomo. [2:02:38] What does it do? [2:02:39] Okay. [2:02:40] Network of people. [2:02:41] Yeah. [2:02:45] Majodomo is like, he's happy with the situation. [2:02:54] Oh, wow. [2:02:56] Okay. [2:02:56] The video unaza edit. [2:02:58] Oh, it's fine. [2:02:59] It's fine. [2:02:59] Watch out to the end. [2:03:02] And finally, Orengo. [2:03:06] Me. [2:03:08] I don't know. [2:03:09] You know any other? [2:03:10] You guys know any other? [2:03:12] No, but you're saying Orengo, I say it's me. [2:03:15] Oh, oh, that's what? [2:03:19] Haya. [2:03:21] Ladies and gentlemen, which show is this? [2:03:25] Obina Show Live. [2:03:29] Oh, wow. [2:03:30] Okay. [2:03:31] Thank you very much for being quite a sport. [2:03:36] We should do this again. [2:03:37] Sooner or later. [2:03:39] Tomorrow? [2:03:40] Ah, tomorrow is too soon. [2:03:41] Yeah, wasitumesha cover at least. [2:03:43] Waza kwanza watu waende kwanza finance been. [2:03:45] I love to root it to ongesa. [2:03:46] I love to root, yeah. [2:03:47] Yes, but thank you very much. [2:03:48] Yeah, I really appreciate it. [2:03:51] Accepting us to have you on the show. [2:03:53] Accepting us to have you at your place. [2:03:56] And also being a good sport. [2:03:57] Napia, lishe bora. [2:03:58] Asante, son. [2:03:59] Thank you. [2:04:00] Asante, son. [2:04:00] All right. [2:04:01] And for everybody who's watching, remember you can support the show. [2:04:05] We do have a QR code up here. [2:04:06] Maze is called by me, soda. [2:04:08] Just scan it. [2:04:09] If you've enjoyed the show, support the show that way. [2:04:12] And for the other, son. [2:04:13] If you've enjoyed the show, support the show that way. [2:04:16] Just comment, like, and subscribe. [2:04:17] Unafina tweet, button, hapachini. [2:04:19] Your final submissions. [2:04:21] Cameron, you're here. [2:04:22] My final submission is that we are not in a good place as a country. [2:04:28] We must, together, do everything that is possible to make sure that change comes to Kenya in 2027. [2:04:37] So, out there, register as a voter. [2:04:41] Keep your vote on the final day. [2:04:44] Please vote for those who are going to change the country. [2:04:48] But, there's always a possibility that change is just around the corner. [2:04:54] Yeah. [2:04:55] That is true. [2:04:56] Speaking about around the corner, we have the four corners on the 20th of June. [2:05:02] The biggest fight happening. [2:05:04] It's my birthday month as well. [2:05:05] So, get your tickets at ticketraha.com. [2:05:08] Come through for Vurugu Edition 2. [2:05:10] We have a lot of fighters in the ring, including we have a fighter from Uganda. [2:05:15] Yeah, he's coming fighting in the Aroboi. [2:05:16] Aroboi is nothing, a heartbreak. [2:05:18] Let's see how that's going to happen. [2:05:19] We have Phil and Gashau. [2:05:20] Majembe is making a rematch because just one Vurugu one is coming back to meet Somali boxer. [2:05:26] So, it's going to be a beautiful, a beautiful fight. [2:05:29] So, get your ticket, Mapema, your best. [2:05:31] Also, from Nigeria, we have Vruga performing live and Calligraph Jones. [2:05:35] And, of course, I'm going to be announcing many other artists who are from Kenya [2:05:38] are also going to be gracing the stage. [2:05:40] I'm going to see you guys later. [2:05:41] Good night or good morning, depending on where you get this from. [2:05:45] See you later.