The Iranian diaspora in the media: Interview with Narges Bajoghli — The Listening Post

[0:00] I'm Nargis Bajurli. I am an Iranian-American, was born in Iran and moved to the United States [0:05] when I was four. I'm an anthropologist and I focus a lot on media production. [0:10] This threat of terrorism was birthed out of the coverage of what was happening in Iran from 1979 [0:18] onwards. The best way to describe Iran International is kind of like Fox News in the United States. [0:24] I have been paying very close attention to the ways in which, for many years now, [0:28] the Middle East has been framed in a particular way to allow for and justify forever wars. [0:34] I think the fight for the future of Western civilization is happening right here, [0:38] and I think Israel is leading that fight. What are you doing about it to help the [0:42] Americans, to help the civilized world defeat this brutal sort of neo-Nazi regime? [0:48] What has been so striking for me is the way in which I've been watching the Iranian diaspora [0:54] being utilized for a justification for this war that is currently taking place in Iran. [1:00] The United States has pulled the most successful military operation in history of mankind. The [1:07] whole top echelon of the Islamic Republic has been dismantled in a few hours. [1:12] In Iran, you have a population of over 90 million. We don't have exact numbers on the diaspora, [1:17] but it's also multiple millions throughout the world. The Iranian diaspora has had different ideas [1:23] about what kind of political future should exist in Iran. You had people who supported a secular [1:30] republic as the future of Iran, those who were more from the leftist end of the spectrum, those who [1:35] wanted the monarchy back, those who believed in reform in the country. And these different elements [1:41] all really disagreed with one another, had debates with one another, and there was a very real diversity. [1:48] The Iranian people have been living under not just pressure from the above, [1:53] from their own regime, but also pressure from the outside, from the United States. [1:57] There are specific steps that the U.S. administration can take to really address the root cause, [2:02] as I said, in dealing with the head of the snake in Iran. [2:06] In the past couple of months, that conversation has become really heated, [2:10] and the people that are being platformed in mainstream spaces in the United States, [2:15] mainstream media spaces, have often been folks from the Iranian diaspora who, in one way or another, [2:22] talk about the desire for Iranians for liberation and freedom. [2:26] Iranians understand and know that President Trump and his administration [2:31] are fighting to liberate the Iranian people. [2:34] We always saw this less of a war, more of a rescue mission to, I suppose, [2:38] take out the machinery of repression. [2:40] I see many of these folks as really being desperate for change in Iran, which I can understand. [2:47] But what strikes me is that they have either been asleep or are not paying attention to these various [2:54] regime change wars in the Middle East that the United States has now waged for over 25 years. [2:59] They are still calling for change from the exact powers that have destroyed these societies. [3:07] This is the message that Iranians want me to send to President Trump. [3:12] Do not leave us alone with this wounded, murderous regime. [3:18] Finish the job. [3:19] When I look at clips like this, the issue with this kind of framing is that what is being sold to the public [3:25] is very similar to what apparently President Trump got in his briefings right before he launched this war, [3:32] which is that all the Iranian regime needs is another push and then it will collapse. [3:37] Or all the Revolutionary Guard needs in order to defect is to see that the United States or Europe [3:43] really mean business and then they will defect and the regime will collapse. [3:47] The reality is, is that as we've seen through 40 days of war thus far, [3:52] the Islamic Republic is an extremely resilient political establishment. [3:56] This war could last another three and a half weeks or so. [4:01] Has Iran asked for a ceasefire? [4:04] No, we never asked for a ceasefire and we have never asked even for negotiation. [4:11] We are ready to defend ourselves as long as it takes. [4:14] Get rid of the Supreme Leader. I am totally fine for him to blow him into wherever he wants to go. [4:26] He does not deserve to be on this earth any longer. [4:29] When I hear Iranians and diaspora say these kinds of things on mainstream media, [4:34] what I hear is more a desire and illusion of what they want, [4:38] rather than an analysis that is based in reality. [4:41] A lot of Iranians want a very different system, but they also understand that, first of all, war [4:47] really represses the internal environment. [4:52] Dissent is stamped out, just like in any country that is under war. [4:56] And that, secondly, it actually entrenches the Islamic Republic. [4:59] The version of the Islamic Republic that will come out of this [5:03] is likely going to be more hawkish, more radical, more repressive. [5:07] This is the moment that Iranian people have been waiting for 47 years. [5:12] The Islamic Republic understand only language of force. [5:15] Masih Ali Najad gets a lot of airtime because she says what a lot of mainstream media right now [5:22] desires, which is a framing of this as a war of liberation. [5:26] Masih Ali Najad has been supported by the United States government, [5:31] by different elements within the pro-Israel world, [5:34] because she is willing and able to sort of put this framing consistently out there. [5:38] And she has been doing so for years now. [5:40] If the Western countries and democratic countries do not get united to end Islamic terror, [5:48] believe me, they will get united to end democracy and to end every single of us. [5:54] So she does not represent anyone beyond herself. [5:57] And she has to in many ways say these kinds of things in media in order to continue to be called upon. [6:04] And this is a huge business and an industry. [6:08] With me now is Reza Pahlavi, the exiled crown prince of Iran. [6:11] Good to be with you, Mr. Pahlavi. Thank you so much for taking the time. [6:15] So Reza Pahlavi is the son of the former Shah of Iran. [6:18] He was a teenager when the revolution happened and they had to leave the country. [6:22] I think the president was absolutely correct when he says there has to be a change of direction. [6:28] And that's exactly what the Iranian people are asking. [6:30] But if the Iranian people now had the support of the president, [6:33] will that encourage them to take to the streets in even greater numbers [6:36] and put more pressure on the regime from within? [6:38] Yes. And I think that... [6:40] Reza Pahlavi in and of himself is not a charismatic leader. [6:43] He was never able to have a huge following behind him in all of these years up until fairly recently. [6:49] One of the reasons that he's been pushed to the forefront again is that [6:52] he seems to be the favored person from the Israeli end. [6:57] Your leadership is a leadership of peace and tolerance, unlike the extremists who rule Iran today. [7:05] They have been really supportive of him in the political realm and in the diaspora. [7:08] There's also a number of Iranian diaspora satellite television stations that are broadcast in Persia [7:14] into Iran that have been pushing Reza Pahlavi in the pre-revolutionary time [7:19] as this nostalgic, ideal time that Iran must return to. [7:23] In this episode, we have a great film of the famous film of the year of 1342, [7:28] with the name of one day in the family of Iran, [7:31] with Mr. Shah, Mr. Shahbani and Mr. Shahbani, Mr. Shahbani, Mr. Shahbani, Mr. Shahbani, Mr. Shahbani, Mr. Shahbani. [7:36] I began to see a big shift in the diaspora and those who supported the war once the United States [7:42] and Israel started to attack civilian infrastructure in Iran, especially all of the infrastructure that [7:48] the country would need to rebuild, from factories to bridges to oil depots. And once Trump started to [7:56] tweet about destroying a whole civilization, then Iranians and diaspora began to see this not as a [8:02] war against the Islamic Republic, but as a war against the Iranian nation as a whole. [8:06] And I think a lot of people are beginning to have buyer's remorse. [8:14] Reza Pahlavi now says that he didn't call for any kind of military intervention in Iran, [8:19] even though he very forcefully did. [8:21] Only a military intervention at this point could level the playing field. [8:25] Well, it could be an American strike, it could be an Israeli strike, it could be whatever. [8:28] One of the reasons for this change is that he is receiving a lot of blowback within the Iranian [8:35] diaspora and from within Iran itself. That, first of all, he's one of the only political leaders who [8:41] has called for military intervention into his country in Iran's history. And so they're seeing [8:47] him as a traitor for this. And the second is that he actually was not able to deliver. He said that [8:51] if there is a military intervention, Iranians in Iran would come out, folks within the [8:55] Revolutionary Guard would defect, and this would be a very quick war and that he could then help run [9:00] the country. That has obviously not turned out to be the case. Wars do not bring liberation. What wars do [9:07] is they create broken societies and enraged populations. And that is something that is disheartening [9:15] for me to watch when I see the Iranian diaspora calling for these kinds of strikes and wars on Iran.