The contradictory demands to end the US-Israel war on Iran

[0:09] hello this is america where the u.s says it has won or at least is winning the war of course iran [0:15] has got other ideas but whose war is this to end is it america's is it iran's is it israel's [0:22] and does tehran actually have more power here than washington would care to admit we're going [0:26] to dig into that right now with me and anna burns francis thanks phil america's president's been [0:32] keen to project power and influence in this war but it's clear tempers are becoming more than a [0:38] little frayed in a moment we'll be joined by our white house correspondent kimberly halkett [0:43] and manny rapolo is at the state department today but first it's a return to form for the war in [0:48] iran a return to claims of negotiations seemingly underway underlined by threats of devastation the [0:56] entire country can be taken out in one night and that night might be tomorrow night the president's [1:04] confidence comes after the dramatic rescue of two u.s airmen from behind enemy lines last week [1:10] and his weekend [1:11] threat to unleash hell if iran doesn't reopen a blockaded strait of hormuz [1:16] expletives aside the threat to bomb civilian infrastructure only raised the ire of iran [1:22] which now says the situation and one of the world's most vital waterways will never [1:26] return to its original form the resolute messaging from the regime is nothing new [1:32] presidents from clinton to bush to trump version one all found a foe in iran [1:36] but they never made it a direct target and although the two nations have now been locked [1:41] in a standoff between iran and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the [1:42] u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s [1:42] and the u.s and the u.s and the u.s and the big [1:45] and the u.s and the u.s and the u.sie want to get back to the strength of the [1:48] country that was divided over a decade of war and 大陸 all theもある [1:49] and the international energy agency is calling the fallout the largest energy shock in history [1:55] while allies wait to see what the outcome of the latest deadline and discussions are [2:00] many more are wondering just how the two countries will be able to negotiate any ending at all [2:10] we have prepared our response we will decide on the time to go about it. [2:12] will decide on the timing and manner of its announcement when appropriate. [2:18] A nation that is guided by reason and knows what it wants, as well as what it cannot accept, [2:24] has no hesitation in expressing its positions. [2:28] However, negotiations are entirely incompatible with ultimatums, crimes and threats of war [2:34] crimes. [2:36] Each side's conditions for ending the war have been broadly outlined and while Washington's [2:41] list hasn't been exclusively published, it's clear there are major differences in demands. [2:46] US media leaks suggest America wants a 30-day ceasefire, while Iran is calling for a complete [2:52] halt to aggression and assassinations, and a guarantee against future attacks. [2:57] The US wants three of Iran's nuclear facilities to be dismantled, for Tehran to never develop [3:03] a nuclear weapon and to stop the enrichment of uranium. [3:06] Tehran says enrichment is an inalienable right. [3:10] The reopening of the Strait of Horeb is expected to be a major challenge for Iran. [3:11] Hormuz is also a key US demand, despite claims it's not a war objective. [3:16] Tehran says it needs a guarantee that Iran has sovereignty over the waterway. [3:21] The US also wants Iran to end its support for the likes of Hezbollah in Lebanon and [3:25] the Houthis in Yemen. [3:27] But Iran is demanding the US and Israel stop the war on all fronts, including fighting [3:32] against those groups, which are its regional allies. [3:34] In a moment we'll go to Manny Rapolo at the State Department, but first let's go to Kimberly [3:39] Halkett who joins us from the White House. [3:41] Kimberly, the President of the United States. [3:41] The President's been speaking this afternoon. [3:43] Any update on those talks? [3:45] The US President indicating that negotiations are still ongoing and that he believes that [3:52] Iran is negotiating in what he says is good faith. [3:57] But as to whether the two sides can come to some sort of agreement to limit or prevent [4:04] an escalation, the US President would only say we'll find out. [4:08] Now the US President has given until Tuesday, April. [4:11] Tuesday 8pm Washington DC time for Iran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz and for there [4:17] to be an agreement of some sort to limit its nuclear program. [4:22] The US President going further than he has before on Monday saying that if that deadline [4:28] is not met, he says that the United States will then destroy Iran's bridges, power plants, [4:36] and that that will happen approximately four hours after the end of that 8pm deadline. [4:41] So the US President laying out the consequences if diplomacy fails when asked by reporters [4:47] whether or not he is concerned that this is a war crime, the US President said he's not [4:53] concerned at all. [4:55] A lot riding on this. [4:56] Manny, I'll bring you in here. [4:57] What is the view then from US diplomats who are trying to manage this crisis? [5:02] Anna, the US effort when it comes to diplomacy is being led less by the traditional State [5:11] Department channels and more by individuals. [5:14] And especially the US. [5:15] We have a small group of people within the senior leadership at the White House. [5:18] We can point specifically here to individuals like US Special Envoy Steve Witkoff who has [5:23] been relying more on back channels and not so much on the traditional path of negotiation [5:30] here. [5:31] With that said, there has been acknowledgement by US diplomats that there is a big gap and [5:36] a big difference between what the United States is hoping to reach and what Iran is hoping [5:40] to reach here. [5:42] They're very far apart when it comes to an agreement there. [5:45] And this could be largely the reason why we're seeing a shift for more of an interim step [5:52] here rather than a comprehensive plan. [5:54] Now the chatter that we're hearing from foreign policy circles here in Washington, D.C. is [5:58] that both the US and Iran are coming at this from positions of strength and not positions [6:04] of compromise. [6:05] And the longer that continues, the more we're going to see a scenario play out where there's [6:10] only going to be a very small and a very narrow channel, a narrow space, for a very narrow [6:15] deal for a diplomatic deal here. [6:16] All right. [6:17] Manny Rapolo joining us from the State Department. [6:18] Kimberly Halkert live for us at the White House. [6:20] Thank you both. [6:23] As President Trump looks for ways to end the conflict with Iran, failure by both sides [6:27] to make concessions has seen the deadlock continue. [6:30] John Hendren looks at the options either side has for an off-ramp. [6:36] President Trump insists the clock is ticking toward the end of the war in Iran. [6:41] We are on track to complete all of America's military objectives shortly, very shortly. [6:46] But the timing of the war is uncertain. [6:48] The war's end is hard to pin down. [6:50] When it's over, this is going to bounce right back so fast. [6:53] When are you going to know when it's over? [6:55] When I feel it. [6:56] OK. [6:57] I feel it in my bones. [6:58] That leaves a colossal question unanswered. [7:00] Who decides when the war is over? [7:03] Iran says it does, with the country's Consulate General in Mumbai posting, Iran will end the [7:08] war at a time of its own choosing and only if the conditions it has set are fulfilled. [7:14] It will not allow Trump to determine the timing of the war's end. [7:17] The U.S. has offered a 15-point plan, including demands that Iran dismantle key nuclear sites, [7:23] permanently end uranium enrichment, hand over its stockpiles of enriched nuclear material, [7:29] limit its missiles, and end regional proxy networks. [7:33] Iran has its own plan, demanding war reparations, full control over the Strait of Hormuz, binding [7:39] security agreements from the U.S. and its allies, and an end to all attacks on its regional [7:44] partners. [7:45] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [7:46] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [8:17] an American journalist. [8:18] Yemen's Houthi rebels attacking international ships [8:22] in the Red Sea. [8:23] Each new front raises the cost of a ceasefire [8:26] and makes it harder to enforce, [8:28] leaving mounting destruction. [8:30] Meanwhile, thousands of U.S. Marines [8:33] are deploying to the region, [8:34] raising the prospect of a deeper [8:36] and more dangerous phase of the war. [8:39] As a coalition led by Egypt, Pakistan, and Turkey [8:43] tries to broker a ceasefire, [8:45] strategists on both sides question [8:47] whether they can find common ground [8:49] for an end to the war. [8:51] John Hendren, Al Jazeera, Washington. [8:53] Well, President Trump has repeatedly insisted [8:57] the U.S. is winning the war. [8:59] He's even gone so far as to say the war has been won. [9:02] But Iran is still launching missiles, [9:04] demonstrating that even though the U.S. started it, [9:07] it may not be in a position to end it. [9:09] So, who has that power? [9:10] Let's head back to Phil in the newsroom. [9:12] Yeah, a lot of talk here in the U.S. media [9:16] over who gets the final say. [9:18] Can this war ever really reach [9:20] a truce? [9:21] Who gets to say that it is over? [9:23] So we'll start with Axios. [9:24] Look at the picture telling the story here, [9:26] because you've got the Iranian flag [9:27] and they're stuck, trapped in the middle, [9:29] is President Trump. [9:30] And that is where the headline leads into. [9:32] Be kind of the curtain. [9:33] Trump's escalation trap. [9:35] Then it goes on to use a word [9:36] we used to hear all the time from President Trump, [9:38] not so much over the last month. [9:39] Unlike tariffs that can be swiftly imposed and rescinded, [9:43] the war's outcome is beyond unilateral control [9:46] and quick fixes. [9:47] And crucially here, look, Iran gets a say. [9:50] Plus, there's more. [9:51] Axios also saying Trump could pull out tomorrow, [9:53] but the Iranians could keep the Strait of Hormuz closed [9:56] and push oil prices so high [9:59] that America would have to re-engage. [10:01] Now, Axios has done a lot of reporting on this. [10:03] So there is another article and it says here, [10:05] look, as long as the Iranian blockade holds [10:07] and Gulf oil remains trapped, [10:09] Trump can't end the war and declare victory, [10:12] even if he wants to. [10:14] Right, up next, it is the New York Times, [10:16] not the news section, the podcast section. [10:18] This is the Ezra Klein Show, and he was interviewing [10:20] this Iran expert based here in Washington, DC. [10:23] And she was saying Iran feels it has got the upper hand here, [10:26] but it probably won't end the war [10:28] because it knows what could come next. [10:30] The Iranians want to ensure [10:32] that they don't face yet another round of attacks. [10:35] And so one of the concerns that they have [10:37] about a potentially preemptive end to this war [10:41] is that it will just be the prelude [10:43] to another set of strikes. [10:45] This is what they experienced in June of 2025. [10:48] And they were waiting [10:50] for the next round. [10:51] Right, next up, we're gonna go [10:51] to the conservative news outlet, Fox News. [10:53] And this presenter was interviewing these two commentators. [10:56] This lady in particular had this to say. [10:57] She said that President Trump has got the upper hand here, [11:01] but she doesn't think he should negotiate an end. [11:04] And here is why. [11:05] I'm not for any type of peace deal or treaty [11:08] because at the end of the day, what do peace deals do? [11:10] You can't negotiate with terrorists. [11:11] We're giving jihadist, loving, American-hating terrorists [11:16] an off ramp. [11:17] They deserve nothing. [11:19] You can't negotiate. [11:19] You can't negotiate with terrorists. [11:20] And the worst part about this is Iran [11:22] is still holding the Strait of Hormuz hostage. [11:25] Up next, it is the Wall Street Journal. [11:26] And it quotes one former US top diplomat [11:29] who was involved in the original nuclear deal [11:31] as saying this, quite simple. [11:32] This is the hill they, as in Iran, die on. [11:36] And then the Washington Post opinion section says, [11:39] Trump doesn't need an Iran deal. [11:41] It goes on to add this. [11:42] It says, instead of waiting for Tehran to agree, [11:45] Trump can declare victory and impose his will in five steps. [11:49] And then it leans into this. [11:51] Remember, this is the address that President Trump [11:53] gave to the nation last week. [11:55] And he used this specific term. [11:58] We're going to bring them back to the Stone Ages [12:01] where they belong. [12:02] Back to the Stone Age. [12:03] That is the simple response there. [12:05] One word, good. [12:06] And then there is more. [12:07] It goes on to say, [12:08] Trump does not need a deal to end Operation Epic Fury. [12:11] In fact, he is much better off without one. [12:14] Whether the American public agrees, [12:16] that is another matter. [12:17] With gas prices through the roof, [12:19] with the potential of troop deployment. [12:20] Ultimately, this is a war that maybe neither side [12:23] will actually ever be able to win. [12:25] But both sides will want to be able to say [12:27] they were the ones who ended it. [12:30] So, can the US or Iran trust a deal? [12:33] And would it be adhered to? [12:35] Recent history suggests maybe not. [12:37] Iran agreed to restrict its uranium enrichment [12:40] in exchange for sanctions relief in 2015 [12:42] under the Iran nuclear deal. [12:44] In 2018, Donald Trump withdrew the US from the deal. [12:47] And last year, widespread sanctions were re-employed [12:50] and imposed on Iran. [12:52] The two countries entered indirect talks [12:54] with hopes to revive the agreement. [12:56] But after five rounds of negotiations, [12:58] Israel carried out strikes [13:00] targeting military infrastructure. [13:02] Three days after that, [13:03] the US attacked three Iranian nuclear facilities. [13:06] Iran retaliated by attacking a base [13:09] hosting the US military in Qatar. [13:11] Indirect talks resumed again earlier this year [13:14] with Oman as mediator. [13:16] And on February 27, [13:17] Oman's foreign minister said a deal [13:20] was in reach. [13:21] But the next day, [13:22] the US and Israel launched its assaults on Iran. [13:26] What's ensued since has been all-out war, [13:28] but with promises it will all be over soon. [13:30] For their perspective, [13:31] we're joined now by Dennis Ross, [13:33] former US envoy to the Middle East [13:34] and former senior US diplomat Alan Eyre, [13:37] also a negotiator, we should note, [13:38] from the 2015 Iran nuclear deal. [13:40] Thank you both for coming in. [13:41] Dennis, I'll start with you. [13:43] Will there be a ceasefire before the end [13:45] of the current deadline? [13:47] I have to give you an honest answer. [13:49] I don't know. [13:50] Anybody who says they know, [13:51] at this point, [13:52] is able to divine President Trump's intentions [13:55] in a way that I think is hard to predict. [13:58] Do I think there's a potential for a ceasefire? [14:00] Yes, I do. [14:02] I also see a kind of interesting parallel right now [14:05] between when the Israelis and Hamas [14:07] were dealing through mediators. [14:10] The Israeli position was ceasefire. [14:12] The Hamas position was a permanent ceasefire. [14:15] We have a parallel today. [14:17] We have mediators who are proposing a 45-day ceasefire. [14:21] The Iranians are saying it has to be [14:23] a permanent ceasefire. [14:24] This really has to end. [14:26] And here's this gap again, [14:28] ceasefire versus something that's permanent. [14:30] Each side wants something out of this. [14:32] Each side wants to be able to claim victory. [14:35] Pretty hard for both to claim victory. [14:38] As a mediator, I can say usually what you're trying to do [14:40] is you're trying to allow each side to have an explanation. [14:44] Whether you call it victory or not, [14:45] they have to have an explanation. [14:47] This is probably not going to end [14:49] unless both sides have an explanation. [14:52] It's not hard to conceive of what it might be. [14:54] And Trump says, all I ever really cared about [14:57] was making sure they don't have a nuclear weapon, [14:59] and we've set them back so they can't be a threat [15:02] to their neighbors, and they're not going to be able [15:03] to pursue a nuclear weapons program. [15:06] And he says, and there's going to be a regime [15:08] for the Straits of Hormuz. [15:10] And the Iranians say, we have commitments [15:12] that the U.S. is never going to do this again. [15:15] Sanctions are going to be lifted, [15:17] and we're part of any arrangement [15:18] as it relates to the Straits of Hormuz. [15:20] So it's not hard to envision what the explanations [15:23] on each side could be. [15:25] Not hard, but yet the 15-point plan, Alan, [15:28] has been sitting on the desks, [15:30] or proposed 15-point plan from the U.S., rather, [15:32] has been sitting on the desks for two weeks now, nearly, [15:34] and yet we don't see any outward progress [15:37] from either party towards actually reaching a ceasefire [15:40] or reaching a deal. [15:41] Why do you think that is? [15:42] Well, I think both sides [15:44] have put forward maximalist positions, [15:46] paradoxically more maximalist than before the war started. [15:50] And unfortunately, the regime in place now in Iran [15:53] is more hardline [15:55] than the one that was there before the war started. [15:58] So there's been no progress, [16:00] partially because the distances are so far apart, [16:04] partially because there's an intense war going on, [16:07] and a lot of the people who would be devoting time [16:10] to negotiations are devoting their time [16:12] to avoid being killed on the Iranian side, [16:15] and also because the two sides' goals, [16:20] as the ambassador said, are so far apart, [16:23] it's hard to get the process started, [16:25] especially through intermediaries, you know? [16:27] If you have two sides in a room and you lock the door, [16:29] that's the ultimate Petri dish for negotiations over time. [16:33] That's what we did at the JCPOA without the door locking. [16:36] But, you know, passaging messages [16:38] through one of seven countries, it's really hard. [16:42] Yeah. Dennis also referred to then [16:44] some of the detail around that plan, [16:46] and one of them being a demand for a ceasefire [16:48] versus a demand to a permanent end. [16:50] And I'll ask you this, Alan, before I come back to you, [16:53] Dennis, is it reasonable to ask for an end, [16:55] a permanent end to the conflict at this point, [16:57] or is the ceasefire the best Iran should be asking for? [17:00] No. Iran doesn't want a ceasefire. [17:03] That's the problem. It's like matter and anti-matter. [17:06] The U.S. wants a ceasefire because President Trump [17:09] realizes that the economic consequences [17:12] of Iranian control of the Strait [17:14] are just now starting to multiply exponentially. [17:17] But that's the only or the main leverage that Iran has. [17:21] So if you've got your opponent a strokehold, [17:23] you don't let him out. [17:24] Are you saying that they are putting forward [17:26] an unreasonable ask deliberately, [17:27] because it cannot be an end to the hostilities? [17:30] If Iran is saying you cannot attack anybody in the region, [17:32] we want a permanent end to the war, [17:34] that they are deliberately putting forth a position [17:36] that is untenable or not acceptable to the U.S.? [17:39] No, I'm saying we're offering something to Iran [17:41] that it doesn't want. [17:42] We're bombing them and saying, [17:44] this will force Iran to accept a ceasefire [17:46] because they'll want it. Iran doesn't want it, [17:48] because that's relinquishing the leverage. [17:51] And as the ambassador said, [17:53] they want to not return to the status quo [17:55] because then six months or a year from now, [17:57] Israel or the U.S. could mow the lawn again. [18:00] They want a whole, they want two things. [18:02] They want some type of security structure [18:04] that prevents this from happening again, [18:06] and they want a source of income [18:07] to help rebuild what they've lost. [18:09] Well, earlier today, Donald Trump suggested [18:11] a more reasonable Iran was showing signs of progress. [18:16] They've made a proposal, and it's a significant proposal. [18:19] It's a significant step. [18:20] It's not good enough, but it's a very significant step. [18:23] Could end very quickly, the war, if they do what they have to do. [18:26] They have to do certain things, they know that. [18:28] They're negotiating, I think, in good faith. [18:31] We've had total regime change. [18:32] You know, the people there now are much more reasonable [18:35] than the lunatics that you had in phase one and phase two. [18:38] They were lunatics. [18:40] More reasonable people, Ambassador Ross. [18:42] Do you see that therefore leading to Iran [18:44] making any concessions here, [18:46] if that is the impression the president has? [18:49] I'm not sure that they're more reasonable people. [18:51] But again, if you're the president of the United States [18:53] and you're looking for a way out, [18:55] then you're going to portray them as, [18:57] A, making progress, [18:58] and by the way, that can be a justification for him [19:01] not to act on the latest ultimatum that he's established, [19:05] because now he would have a justification. [19:08] Look, he's also saying that there's been regime change. [19:11] There hasn't been regime change. [19:13] But he's looking for a way to be able to say, [19:16] okay, we've achieved what we needed to achieve. [19:19] In the end, that may not be such a bad thing. [19:23] This can't end, however, with the Iranians [19:25] having the kind of leverage over the Strait of Hormuz [19:27] that they have. [19:28] This is not something [19:30] they've ever exercised before. [19:32] Now they're exercising it. [19:33] It's impossible for the president to claim victory [19:36] if they're determining who gets to leave, [19:38] who gets to enter, who gets to export, [19:40] who can import, who pays a toll to them, [19:43] who doesn't pay a toll to them. [19:45] This is one of the international choke points. [19:48] You know, you're talking about 20% of the world's oil and gas. [19:52] You're also talking about a significant part [19:53] of the world's fertilizer that comes from there. [19:56] If the Iranians literally can blackmail everybody else, [19:59] there's no way the president can say, [20:01] this has been a success. [20:02] Can I come to that point? [20:04] Iran has said the Strait will never return [20:06] to its former state, especially for America and Israel. [20:10] Alan, given the ambassador's comments just then, [20:14] what does that make, then, of any negotiation, [20:17] if that's Iran's position, [20:18] that it won't even go back to where it was before? [20:20] Well, first of all, let me belabor the obvious. [20:22] When governments communicate during wartime, [20:24] they're not necessarily just trying to transmit information. [20:27] They're trying to influence events. [20:29] So when Iran says something, when Israel says something, [20:31] when President Trump says something, [20:33] he's doing it almost kinetically. [20:36] So, but yeah, what you said is correct, [20:40] which is Iran has been decimated. [20:43] They don't want to go back to one day [20:44] before the bombing started, [20:46] because they've lost all three pillars [20:47] of their traditional strategic deterrence. [20:50] They found a new hyper leverage, [20:53] which is control of the Strait of Hormuz. [20:55] And they're not going to give that up, [20:57] certainly not to get a ceasefire they don't want. [21:00] They're only going to give that up [21:01] if they can get, [21:02] security and income. [21:06] And so where does this leave the U.S.? [21:08] Because if I can just put it to you, [21:09] there is some suggestion that there is already [21:11] a de facto toll booth in place. [21:13] We are seeing ships that are linked to France, [21:15] Japan, Singapore, China, and India [21:17] passing through the Strait in recent days. [21:19] Does that weaken U.S. leverage [21:21] in terms of negotiating a system for opening up the Strait? [21:25] I'm not sure that it weakens U.S. leverage, [21:27] but it clearly strengthens the Iranian leverage, [21:29] because they're beginning, as you suggest, [21:32] to create a different reality. [21:33] And the longer that goes on, [21:35] the harder that is to reverse. [21:37] So the president is looking for a way [21:40] to convince the Iranians he can impose [21:42] even more pain on them, [21:43] so it's in their interest to sort of give this up. [21:46] They have a different threshold, [21:48] a different pain threshold now. [21:49] They're reading his language as an indication [21:52] that he's the one who needs to end the war. [21:54] In any case, they want to be in a position [21:56] where they can say, [21:56] hey, look, we weren't the ones [21:58] who asked for an end to the war. [22:00] We survived the greatest power in the world, [22:03] the strongest military power [22:04] in the region, and we survived that. [22:06] So they want to be able to present themselves as a winner. [22:08] I would say this. [22:09] There's something else that I find interesting, [22:12] which most people aren't focused on. [22:15] The regime in Iran is a regime [22:18] that had no answer for the grievances [22:20] that produced what we saw at the end of December into January. [22:23] This is a regime that can't provide water. [22:25] There's not things that are much more basic [22:27] than being able to meet the water needs of people. [22:30] Electricity, even though it produces oil and natural gas, [22:34] a currency that has [22:35] basically no value. [22:37] So none of those grievances, [22:39] which was driving the Iranian public, [22:42] do they have an answer for. [22:43] They will be even less able to address some of those [22:47] in the aftermath of this, [22:49] even if they can get sanctions lifted [22:50] and they have money coming in. [22:52] The level of mismanagement, the character of corruption, [22:55] I mean, the sheer nature of what they have to cope with [22:58] in terms of what's been destroyed, [23:00] it's going to be difficult for them to deal with any of that. [23:03] For me, there's a paradox. [23:05] The paradox is, [23:06] when this war ends, [23:07] the basic inner contradictions within that system [23:10] are going to have to be addressed. [23:11] Now, will the regime be able to deal with them [23:13] or collapse right away? The answer is no. [23:16] But if you ask me, does this regime have real staying power [23:19] over the next 12 to 18 months? [23:21] Will it produce an Iranian Gorbachev, [23:23] someone who emerges as a way of, [23:25] look, the way we can save the Islamic Republic [23:27] is by making some fundamental changes? [23:30] I think there's a possibility. [23:32] Is there a possibility in the 12 to 18 months [23:34] that you can have a change again from the public? [23:37] Maybe. [23:38] But as long as the war goes on, ironically, [23:40] even if they're weakened in a military sense, [23:43] they're not necessarily weakened in terms of their control. [23:45] Yeah, Alan, in the time that we have left, [23:48] I want to talk to you about something [23:50] that you will have some experience with. [23:51] There is a third party in this relationship, [23:53] and that is, of course, Israel. [23:55] How does their position and what their objectives [23:57] are come into any negotiation scenario [24:00] between the U.S. and Iran? [24:03] Is it possible that there is a deal [24:05] that Israel would also be bound [24:07] by the U.S. and Iran that is bound by? [24:10] Well, I think the U.S. has the ability [24:12] to influence Israel to accept whatever deal it accepts. [24:14] But you put your finger on it, [24:16] which is, unlike the United States, [24:18] Israel has a clear goal of bringing Iran [24:21] to a failed state or a near-failed state status. [24:24] Now, if there were a pro-Western, [24:26] pro-Israeli government in Iran, [24:29] that would be even better. [24:30] That's the cherry on the sundae. [24:32] But at a minimum, what Israel wants [24:34] is an Iranian government so busy, [24:37] so focused on a country that imposes no threat whatsoever. [24:41] They're one of the reasons this war started, [24:43] because the prime minister convinced President Trump [24:46] that there were discrete goals that were achievable [24:49] with a minimum of effort. [24:50] That proved not to be the case. [24:51] But, yes, President Trump will have to use his influence [24:56] with Israel to put a... [24:58] to enforce any deal he makes with Iran. [25:01] Can I just add to that? [25:02] Very quickly. Yes, please do. [25:04] I'll do it very quickly. [25:05] Prime Minister Netanyahu cannot say no to Donald Trump. [25:09] He won't. [25:09] Ambassador Dennis Ross, Al-Anir, [25:11] thank you both for coming in. [25:12] Thank you. [25:13] Trump's violent rhetoric on Truth Social [25:14] set off the debate on social media once again. [25:17] Alex Baird has this roundup. [25:20] Trump's 1987 bestseller, [25:23] The Art of the Deal, his... [25:26] Second favorite book of all time. [25:28] ...came to life this weekend with this. [25:31] Negotiations with Iran have pushed to the edge. [25:34] Open the expletive straight, you crazy expletives, [25:38] or you'll be living in hell. [25:40] Former Trump supporter and far-right radio host [25:42] Alex Jones taking the temperature of the room. [25:47] We've never seen rhetoric out of presidents like this [25:48] when we go to war, even before this war. [25:50] This is really bad PR, folks. [25:52] Trump's rhetoric pushing that conversation online [25:55] as to whether a deal is even possible now. [25:58] Axios saying that nth hour negotiations are in full swing, [26:02] despite sources saying the chances of success are slim. [26:06] The updates coming in in real time. [26:08] Speculation that opening the Strait of Hormuz is off the table [26:11] and that for Iran, the trust is beyond damaged. [26:15] The response from Iranian embassies going viral [26:17] that we've lost the keys to the Strait [26:20] and Iran finally got regime change. [26:22] But to Maga, the president, a few days ago saying, [26:26] well, if he can't get the Iranians on side, [26:29] that won't be on him. [26:31] So if it doesn't happen, I'm blaming J.D. Vince. [26:36] If it does happen, I'm taking full credit. [26:38] But the biggest theme online, confusion. [26:43] Objectives changing day by day in the American public, [26:46] struggling to understand what's actually going on. [26:50] Some saying, if that is the case, [26:52] why would Iran even bother agreeing to a deal [26:54] just to get attacked again six months later? [26:58] Podcaster and former Fox host Tucker Carlson saying, [27:01] all the noise points to one thing. [27:05] And so you're watching the end [27:10] of the global American empire. [27:13] The question now, what next? [27:15] That was great, by the way. [27:16] That's all from the team here in Washington, D.C., [27:19] looking at the opposing demands between the U.S. and Iran [27:23] and who has the power to end the war. [27:25] On This Is America, we'll keep following the decisions [27:28] that shape the U.S. and influence the world. [27:31] For now, we'll hand back to Al Jazeera's [27:33] global headquarters in Doha. [27:35] Thanks for joining us.