The Colbert Talarico Interview Dispute: Media Policy Meets Politics

[0:02] As early voting began Tuesday, a new election survey finds more than half of Republican primary voters in Harris County have not decided who they'll support for Harris County judge. [0:14] To discuss that and other developments in this week's political roundup, we are joined now by University of Houston political science lecturer Nancy Sims and party politics co-host and UH political science professor Geronimo Cortina. [0:26] Nancy, Geronimo, welcome. [0:27] Good morning. [0:28] Good morning, Craig. [0:29] First off, I want to note that we talked in some detail about the primary election on Tuesday's show with Houston Public Media's senior politics reporter Andrew Schneider. [0:38] If you missed it or if you want a refresher on some of the major races on Houston area ballots, you can find that conversation right now on Houston Public Media's YouTube channel. [0:47] There is also a detailed article from our Kyle McLennigan at HoustonPublicMedia.org. [0:53] I want to keep you informed about all of that. [0:55] All right, let's get to the survey. [0:56] This is from the University of Houston's Hobby School of Public Affairs, and it has some intriguing findings, I think, for the primary races for Harris County judge. [1:04] This is, again, the chief executive office of the county. [1:07] Lena Hidalgo is not running for re-election. [1:09] So among Harris County's likely Democratic voters, the survey finds 46 percent intend to vote for former Houston Mayor Anise Parker, 25 percent plan to vote for former Houston City Council member Letitia Plummer, 24 percent undecided, 5 percent backing Matt Salazar. [1:25] On the Republican primary ballot, 21 percent of likely voters say they'll support former county treasurer and former Houston City Council member Orlando Sanchez, 10 percent back Houston Firefighters Union leader Marty Langton, 54 percent say they do not know who they will support. [1:45] Nancy, are you surprised by that? [1:46] Not really. [1:47] The county judge's race is fairly low profile, especially when one of the most driving races of this primary season is the U.S. Senate race, which will be the first thing you vote on when you go in to cast your ballot. [2:03] So the county judge's race is going to be six, seven pages back in your ballot. [2:10] And I think people are just not as engaged with it. [2:15] But one of the things that stands out in that snapshot in this poll is that Greg Abbott has endorsed Marty Langton. [2:24] Yeah, I wanted to mention this. [2:25] So Langton has that endorsement from Governor Abbott. [2:29] Sanchez has the backing of Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller. [2:32] Miller and Abbott have been at odds at times. [2:38] Does, though, the majority of likely GOP voters, at least according to this survey, not having made up their minds yet, suggest to you that endorsements like that maybe don't matter very much, Geronimo? [2:52] Well, it depends on the nature of the kind of endorsement, who's making it, the type of race and how visible is that endorsement. [3:05] And obviously, it also depends in terms of how likely or how informed are folks around the candidates or around the race, so on and so forth. [3:17] What's interesting here is obviously you have the agriculture commissioners, Sid Miller, and obviously Greg Abbott, the governor, endorsing different candidates. [3:28] And that always puts underscoring how diverse and the pluralistic nature of the executive in Texas. [3:39] We have two politicians that are similar in terms, for example, in support for President Trump, but in terms of how they implement policy is night and day. [3:51] And obviously, this is something that maybe the public has a saying or maybe the public has a different interpretation. [4:00] Nancy, how about the fact that Langton, he seems to have a lot of good financial backing, doesn't seem to be polling particularly well? [4:10] It's really not surprising. His financial backing is very strong. [4:16] He has the support of what I would consider today's Republican establishment. [4:23] And I think it's important that we point out that Greg Abbott has endorsed Sid Miller's opponent, right? [4:29] Right. That's what I'm saying. [4:31] Yeah. So I think there is, to play off of what Geronimo was saying, there is a definite issue at play there. [4:39] But I really don't think that's a main focus of primary voters right now. [4:43] I think they're just looking. [4:45] And the difference is that Orlando Sanchez has a 30-year history with Republican voters. [4:51] Just to go back to the whole thing between Abbott and Miller, are you suggesting that because Abbott is backing Miller's opponent, [4:59] that that had any influence on who Abbott endorsed in the Harris County race? [5:04] No, I don't think so. [5:06] I think it probably has more to do, again, with the financial backing. [5:10] Abbott shares many donors with Langton's donors. [5:13] OK. [5:13] So there's a lot of overlap there. [5:16] Again, back to this notion that the majority of Republican voters maybe haven't made up their minds yet. [5:22] Is this one of the downsides of the Texas primary elections being so early in the calendar? [5:28] Texas is one of the three earliest states that are holding primaries, you know, the first week in March, [5:35] that all the other states are further behind. [5:39] Some of them, many months from now, will hold their primary elections. [5:43] Is this a bad idea? [5:45] I mean, yes and no. [5:49] And it depends, once again, on the nature of the race. [5:53] So given that in the state and many other places we are 100 percent polarized, [6:02] primary elections have a significant impact in determining who's going to win the general election. [6:08] So in places where elections are not competitive, I don't think that is the case of Harris County. [6:15] But in other elections, winning the primary means that you're just going to cruise down the general election. [6:21] If you have primary elections so early in the calendar, I think it has two important effects. [6:29] The first one is that voters are not necessarily going to know who you are because the campaign time is very short [6:38] to get your ground, your game on the ground, more endorsements, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. [6:45] However, the advantage is, especially for candidates, that after winning the primary, [6:50] if you don't have a runoff in May, you're going to be more likely to have more time to campaign for the general election. [6:59] So it depends how you weight each of them and how competitive races are. [7:05] But the history of this is that we moved our primary for May, which it was held for many decades in May. [7:12] We moved it to March to have more influence in presidential elections. [7:17] And that's why it's early now. [7:19] And this is not a presidential year, so we're sitting here with an early March primary. [7:24] But that's why we moved it to March. [7:27] Is there any reason that it would have to be the same date every year? [7:34] Couldn't the legislature come along and say, you know what, we're going to do that in presidential election years, [7:39] but other years we hold it in May? [7:41] Well, since the law is written into statute on when the election is held, you need to be consistent with it. [7:48] So this is, though, intentional. [7:53] Oh, of course. [7:54] It's very intentional. [7:56] But it's driven by presidential politics, not local and state politics. [8:00] If you had your druthers, when would be the ideal time for a state primary? [8:04] I liked the May primaries because you had a good separation between election cycles. [8:11] And, you know, often City of Houston elections, for example, will be in 27. [8:18] But there, you know, you'll have overlap with the 28 primaries that year. [8:23] So I liked the May primaries, and you basically could run January to early May, and you had a nice, good time frame. [8:32] Back to the survey findings. [8:34] Are you surprised by how substantial a lead former Mayor Parker appears to have in her Democratic primary race against former Councilmember Plummer? [8:41] Well, again, I mean, when we have these type of surveys, whatever survey, first of all, trying to poll primary voters is the first important step. [8:56] And it has become harder and harder and harder. [8:59] So that's one aspect. [9:00] In any poll, getting primary voters is kind of complicated. [9:04] The second thing is that surveys are just a picture of that day when the survey is taken. [9:11] Again, we are already in early voting, but things obviously change as things progress and heat up. [9:21] So it's a good advantage given that survey at that time of the day, but things can change. [9:29] And obviously, Anise Parker is a candidate that has been present in Houston politics and Harris County politics longer than Leticia Plummer. [9:39] But I think that both candidates are competitive in one way or another. [9:44] So we just have to wait and see what happens. [9:46] What other races are you watching closely and why as early voting rolls on? [9:51] Well, I think the congressional primaries around Harris County are really intense at this point. [9:59] And you have multiple, you've got a couple of the new seats. [10:03] So all of this is redistricting from last summer that the Texas legislature passed. [10:09] And essentially, you're having new congressional districts. [10:12] So you've got the 18th, still yet, Congressman Menefee facing Congressman Al Green. [10:21] And then in the 29th, you've got Sylvia Garcia has a fairly heated primary, I think, that was a little unexpected. [10:29] And then we have the 9th and we have Dan Crenshaw trying to defend his seat against a more conservative Republican. [10:36] The congressional races are just fascinating to me. [10:39] Geronimo, how about you? [10:41] I mean, same here. [10:42] Those five seats are very interesting. [10:45] Also, the ones up north in the Austin area are quite interesting and are not interesting in terms to see what happens as a byproduct of these mid-cycle redistricting. [10:58] But also, I think, internally for both the Republican Party and the Democratic Party is the tête-à-tête of a race that is going to determine where the Democratic and the Republican Party for sure are going to be heading the next 10 years. [11:15] Especially, for example, the Menefee Green race illustrates that potential change in leadership from a new generation of Democratic leaders in Harris County in the city of Houston. [11:33] So I think that that's going to be extremely interesting to see what happens, a different type of progressiveness in terms of the candidate. [11:43] Both candidates are very progressive, but it's a different approach, which I think is going to be very interesting. [11:48] And in the Crenshaw race, also, you have a more, quote-unquote, traditional Republican. [11:58] Certainly, Congressman Crenshaw is very conservative. [12:03] But then you have these outflank from the right that not necessarily voters are going to approve or disapprove. [12:12] We don't know what's going to happen, but I think that those internal ideological battles are extremely interesting. [12:19] Well, I think they're best manifested by the most covered race on the ballot this year, the U.S. Senate race, which we've talked endlessly about for months. [12:30] But I think that that fight for the party's soul on both sides is going on. [12:36] On the Democratic side in the U.S. Senate race, it's been a fascinating 48 hours or so because late-night talk shows have been folded into that particular race. [12:47] So as we discussed Tuesday with Andrew, the Democratic primary for Senate received this unexpected added attention starting Monday. [12:54] That's when State Representative James Tallarico, who is facing Jasmine Crockett in that primary, was supposed to appear on the late show with Stephen Colbert. [13:02] Instead, the interview was posted to YouTube and Colbert explained on the broadcast that CBS lawyers told him not to put the interview on over the air out of fear it would run afoul of recent guidance from FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, [13:18] who is considering changing or says he's considering changing equal time provisions to require them for talk shows like the late show, which have been exempt for decades. [13:26] It is worth noting the U.S. Supreme Court has weighed in over the years and confirmed shows like that meet the standards of the news interview exception. [13:36] Then on Tuesday, CBS released a statement indicating they did not tell Colbert not to run the interview, [13:43] just that if he did, he should also interview the other Democratic candidates for U.S. Senate from Texas to square with the equal time provision, [13:51] which again does not apply to shows like Colbert's and never has. [13:54] Colbert then noted that Jasmine Crockett has been on his show multiple times. [13:59] Of course, the timing complicates things because as Tallarico was poised to be on the show the night before last, that was the night before early voting started. [14:09] And CBS is, of course, free to set whatever policy it wants. [14:13] But that it is drawing the line now without warning has raised a lot of eyebrows. [14:20] Tallarico has characterized all of this as a sign that, quote, Trump is worried we're about to flip Texas. [14:26] What do you make of it? [14:28] Well, I mean, it's it's a I think the unintended consequence for Tallarico is that he got a lot of publicity in terms of what happened. [14:40] Right. So I think that that is a positive for his campaign, probably more than what he would have gone if he has gone to the Colbert show. [14:52] The interesting part here is how now policies mingle into one way or the other in terms of the free press or in terms of having these fourth pillar of democracy. [15:09] Right. That is a free press. [15:10] Right. So what worries me here is that we see the potential policy guiding content of certain networks. [15:26] Right. We also have to take into account that CBS is mingled in a in purchasing more access to different things. [15:38] In which the Trump administration has a saying in which beating has a potential impact. [15:46] CBS has a new editor in terms of deciding how to move the network zone and so forth. [15:53] So it's Barry Weiss. Exactly. [15:55] Taking control of basically CBS News and that editorial policy. [15:59] And I guess we should also note that Anderson Cooper announced that he was leaving 60 Minutes. [16:04] That's also happened in the last day or two. And it would seem that that at least is a factor in it. [16:10] Right. So I think I mean, overall, I think that when you look at media policy, I think that the role of networks, the role of the media in the U.S. [16:18] is extremely important because very few Western democracies or at least Western democracies have a free press that maintains government officials, elected officials accountable and on both sides. [16:32] So I think it's very important to have that free press, whether it's from the left, from the right, from the middle or whatever. [16:39] I think it's extremely important. And the second part is, I don't know, perhaps whether Colbert was told not to do it or yes, you can do it. [16:50] But just be aware of these things, et cetera, et cetera. If you want to be safe is all right, fine. [16:56] I will invite Crockett. And if she can come, she can come. [17:00] If not, she had an opportunity to come. So it's the winner. [17:05] I think it's Tallarico at the end. Nancy, I agree that Tallarico is the winner. [17:10] And I think it's really boosted his campaign as the idea that Trump doesn't want to see him as the nominee because Jasmine Crockett's whole campaign has been, you know, Trump doesn't want me there. [17:24] And including her ads, you know, quote Donald Trump about how he doesn't want her there. [17:30] So I agree that Tallarico is the main winner. [17:33] I also think that there's a consistency of policy, and that's something that our media is dealing with across the board. [17:45] You never know what day what policy is going to be implemented. [17:50] And I think, Craig, even you were talking about it. It's a consistency in how these decisions are made. [17:57] And for many of our talk show hosts, The View, entertainment shows, these issues keep popping up in individual, excuse me, in individual circumstance. [18:12] Okay. It's been some days now. [18:15] The Department of Homeland Security still does not have money. [18:21] Partial shutdown has been going. [18:23] Any signs of progress in Congress over how to resolve that? [18:28] Zero. [18:29] There is simply no communication whatsoever. [18:34] Both parts, Democrats and Republicans, are stuck in the ground without any possibility of movement in terms of deciding where to go. [18:44] And I think that this is something that Democrats learned, especially during this second Trump administration, especially when we had the first government shutdown in terms of negotiating, having the Obamacare subsidies put on the bills to be discussed on the floor. [19:09] And there was nothing. And I think that beyond the promises from Republicans that these will be discussed, et cetera, et cetera. [19:18] If we have a continuing resolution, I think that Democrats have called the bluff. [19:23] And now they are in complete stalemate in terms of having a resolution. [19:30] Is there any motivation for Republicans then to capitulate? [19:33] No. And so I think, you know, previously the Democrats shut the government down over affordable care and health care. [19:45] And they agreed to reopen it after the 42-day shutdown because the Republicans promised they would do certain things. [19:56] They did not do that. [19:58] So now the Democrats are saying, no, we are not compromising. [20:03] You told us you'd take care of it and you're not. [20:06] And so I'm with I'm with Geronimo here. [20:09] That's just a straight stare down at this point. [20:13] And neither side seems willing to budge. [20:16] Now, DHS does not seem to be harmed by this momentary shutdown because they seem to have enough money to keep going off of their previous budget. [20:26] And I guess that that gets back to what I'm saying, which is there's no particular reason to expect any movement here because there's no motivation for either Democrats or Republicans to budge at all. [20:39] Well, until the money from that DHS was allocated runs out. [20:47] Right. So the problem here is that certain agencies within DHS, primarily TSA, who are obviously paying the broken plates of our dysfunctional polarization or polarized politics. [21:04] And then the Coast Guard are just the ones are going to be suffering the most. [21:08] But, for example, ICE was allocated at the beginning of this year around 10 billion dollars. [21:15] So they still have money. [21:17] And obviously that will complete FEMA has some money on the bank, but it depends if we get a natural disaster or not, how well they can respond. [21:29] So a lot of things are on the balance. [21:33] And yes, but at the end is until that money runs out, Republicans are not going to have any significant objectives to move forward. [21:44] Well, as you may recall, when we were talking during the 42-day shutdown, I kept saying, and I think all of us did, that as soon as the airports begin to shut down, they'll fix it because that's the case. [21:59] You know, and of course, spring break's coming. [22:00] So if DHS can't fund TSA and the airports clog again, then they'll resolve it. [22:09] So it's all those flights to South Padre Island and Miami and so forth that that's going to make the difference. [22:16] All right. [22:16] Geronimo Cortina co-hosts Houston Public Media's Party Politics program. [22:20] You can hear it Friday night at 730 on News 88.7. [22:23] See it Friday night at 8 on Houston Public Media TV8. [22:27] Of course, you can check it out at your leisure on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. [22:31] He's also a professor of political science at the University of Houston. [22:34] That is where Nancy Sims is a political science lecturer. [22:37] Thank you both very much. [22:39] Thank you, Craig.