The Beat With Ari Melber 4/23/26 — MSNBC Breaking News Today April 23, 2026

[0:00] Welcome to The Beat. I'm Ari Melber. We are reporting on Trump's crash. [0:03] The approval rating now cratering to 33 percent, an abysmal second-term low. [0:08] Long-time allies see that the ship is sinking. Let's start right here. Trump campaign vet Bannon [0:14] admitting the GOP is facing these defeats. Tucker Carlson has upended the White House's whole week [0:20] with his new defection. Defeat after defeat, now it's a crushing, now they turned over the [0:28] whole frickin' state to them. It'll take us a decade to dig out of this. I do think it's like [0:34] a moment to wrestle with our own consciences. Uh, you know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. [0:42] A long time of torment. I have more on both of those individuals coming up, but I start there [0:49] because the defections don't come in a vacuum. They reflect an American electorate that is currently [0:54] done with Trump and what he's doing in his second term. The extremism, the economic failure, the [1:01] rampant lying, which some people on the right have dismissed when it was directed towards other [1:06] people or other issues, but now they view it as insult on top of injury. In this case, economic [1:12] and foreign policy injury. There's a revolt afoot over Trump's failed economy, over his choice to [1:19] impose this effective war tax on gas. Just 33 percent of Americans approve of this Trump economy now. [1:27] And I'm going to tell you something else. Some people may not like it, but one of those elite [1:33] D.C. narratives has now been proven wrong again when you look at this Trump crash, because we have [1:38] heard a lot of Republican apologists, especially the elite kind of bubbled type of them in Washington, [1:44] but also a lot of D.C. media insiders talk about how Trump has this resilient base of support. [1:51] They talk about it like it's some sort of law of physics, like it can't change and it's special [1:57] to him. And in many cases, that has actually served as a practical matter to exaggerate and hype [2:04] how popular Trump is or how much you have to deal with him. He is president. No one's saying you can [2:08] ignore the entire presidency for a term. But whether you think of him as a popular president who has [2:14] leverage or a lame duck who's fading, that's a big difference. And that narrative that the Republican [2:19] Party will just stand by him no matter what, or as he likes to say, he could murder on Fifth Avenue [2:24] and get away with it. Uh-uh. That's ending, too. Now a sizable third, one third of Republican voters [2:33] disapprove of Trump. After the months of inflation, the gas spike, this new war, the rolling Epstein [2:41] secrecy and Epstein debacle that stretched from late last year into the beginning of this year, [2:46] and new reports say that Trump aides are sugarcoating the war problems. They're afraid [2:52] to tell him the truth. That's part of the war policy planning problem right now. And we have [2:57] reporting on that. We can get into that. But that, I want to point out tonight, is a very stark [3:02] and public contrast to Tucker Carlson and these other MAGA voices who aren't just telling Trump [3:09] the bad news, not just going to him perhaps in private. They have access to him and his aides and [3:14] saying, hey, this isn't working. This economy's bad. This is what people are mad about. No, [3:18] they're going beyond that. They're doing it in public, as we've just seen. And that's driving [3:23] the very media coverage that Trump cares about so much. The combined polling crash, the defections, [3:28] the Iran troubles. All of this now has the right-leaning Drudge Report website likening Trump to Jimmy [3:37] Carter, whose term fell apart over a gas crisis and high prices, and basically getting shown up by [3:46] Iran, what Drudge calls war confusion. You know, Carter was a rare incumbent who lost after his [3:53] first term, like Trump. Now, the second term of Trump was supposed to redeem him as a kind of a leader [3:59] or maybe a more serious person than his early foibles. And yet here he is tonight, according to [4:05] Drudge and a lot of other indicators, saddled with Carter problems of his own making and Carter-level [4:10] polling and Carter failures on policy from the economy to Iran. History does not repeat itself, [4:19] but it rhymes, Mark Twain observed. Well, when it comes to Jimmy Carter, these are some rhymes most [4:25] Americans would rather do without. Meanwhile, the Republican bid to try to reshape future elections [4:32] in Virginia just failed. And here's a little more from what I showed you a preview of, the Steve Bannon [4:37] rant as he took in that news today, going at Republicans. Defeat after defeat, now it's a [4:46] crushing, now they turned over the whole freaking state to them. It'll take us a decade to dig out [4:51] of this. You're damn right you're going to lose the Senate because you've given nothing for people [4:55] to work for. And right now, folks, right, take your number two pencil out and write this down. We ain't [5:00] going to be in power. You're going to lose the Senate. We ain't going to be in power. Get your number [5:05] two pencil for those who don't just type notes on your own iPhone. Now, what is Steve Bannon and Tucker [5:11] Carlson and Alex Jones all have in common? Remember what they do now. They have their own [5:18] dedicated audiences online, and they apparently would rather meet those audiences where they are [5:23] with at a minimum Trump skepticism, if not outright Trump opposition. They'd rather do that now than [5:30] wait around and look like out of touch MAGA elite apologists when this November reckoning comes. [5:39] I'm not telling you what's going to happen in the November midterms. I don't actually do that. [5:42] I'm telling you, though, what they appear to think is going to happen. And that's why this [5:48] is not just about anyone's opinion or voice. It includes that, but also includes what they're [5:55] bracing for. Now, the anger against Trump around the nation is already reaching Capitol Hill long [5:59] before any midterm votes are cast. Today, five different Trump cabinet officials you see across [6:04] the board here. There is some work that sometimes gets done in Congress. Five different officials [6:09] showing up and facing some members of Congress who appear to channel the concerns of this angry [6:15] anti-Trump public. How fast will the prices of gasoline come down? [6:24] Again, that is path dependent on when the war and the conflict end. [6:29] Seven million people losing their health insurance because of the Trump administration actions. That's [6:35] not debatable. There's nobody who is legally enrolled in Medicaid who is losing. That is just [6:42] not true. Will you guarantee that gas will go back to $3 again before the end of the year? [6:49] No one can offer guarantees about the future. No, they can't. And on it went like that. [6:55] Now, Americans blame Trump for the higher gas prices. They can see that direct result from starting [7:00] the war. Financial outlets have covered the Trump tax for weeks. Here's one headline. This is from a [7:05] couple weeks ago. We picked that on purpose to note how this has been the state of play. We've noted [7:11] that it's like a war tax on this very program. Today, Senate Democrats are hammering this point [7:16] with the cumulative numbers. If you add up the tab, all in, American families have paid $16 billion [7:24] more. That's not $16 billion. That's $16 billion extra. That's the scale of the tax in a very short [7:31] period of time because of Trump's war. It's the economy, stupid. Or it's the stupid war hurting [7:38] the economy. Or however you put it, as you're about to see, people are upset with Trump's war [7:44] economy. What would you grade the economy right now? Definitely a D. Is there an F up there? [7:54] I just really don't think I have faith in this administration. It's not the greatest economy [8:00] in the historic country. It's not blowing out of the water. People are struggling. People are struggling. [8:05] The term right now, it sucks. There's hope, but it's not for everybody. It's difficult. With him, [8:12] he doesn't have no plan. Everything just keeps going up and up. Is gaslighting us or delusional? [8:17] I don't know what it is. Well, it's not great and not our best time as a country. Yeah, the gas is [8:29] expensive. Gaslighting people about the gas being expensive doesn't work. And those are folks just [8:35] filling up the tank and going about their day. They're not professional politicians. That's why [8:39] we do these reported interviews sometimes. You just check in. It anecdotally overlaps with the [8:44] polling I showed you. Why am I mentioning that as the top story tonight in concert with these other [8:50] developments? Because when you see Trump backers like Tucker Carlson jump ship after so many years [8:57] of support, and remember, Tucker broke the journalistic rules and limits from his former [9:03] outlet employers like Fox and CNN to go directly campaign for Trump. He did it at the convention. [9:10] He did it again in the homestretch at that controversial MSG rally in New York. So when you see [9:16] him flip now, that was not that long ago, and you see people revolting before the midterms, and you see [9:21] the economy doing what it's doing, it is pretty clear that Tucker Carlson, who once privately confided [9:29] in someone that he hated Trump, a text I mentioned this week that came out in a lawsuit, then went back [9:35] to supporting Trump, and then went back. He is a self-fact check. He is a liar. I can only say that [9:43] rarely when we have the proof. But when you have someone's private text, like a diary, and them [9:48] contradicting themselves, you can actually document how he lied to cozy up to Trump when he was up, [9:54] and now he's lying about why he's ditching Trump when he's out. But the big political point is, [9:59] he's out. Tucker and these other folks, they're not following some sort of long, clear ideological [10:06] plan where, oh, if you do this on the war, that's going to break it. No. They are following their own [10:13] audience and the public and trying to get ahead of what is already the lowest approval of Trump's [10:18] second term. Trump's aides may have him high on his own supply. Top MAGA leaders have taken a [10:24] different route. They are planning their own futures as a future without Trump. And that makes you [10:33] wonder, if it's this bad now, how bad do they think it's going to get for Trump and Republicans? [10:39] We put that big question to Howard Dean and Juanita Tolliver when we're back together [10:42] in 90 seconds. If you look at what happened with Jimmy Carter with, also with Iran, but if you look [10:53] at what happened with the helicopters and the hostages, it cost them the election. It was what a, [10:59] what a mess. Carter level polling, Carter level problems. We're back with Juanita Tolliver [11:05] and Howard Dean. Howard, your view on this wider Trump crash? [11:10] I think he's got about three months to turn it around, which I don't think he's capable of doing [11:14] because I think his people in the House and the Senate are going to be fleeing him like a drowned, [11:19] like rats leaving a drowning ship. The politicians are politicians, no matter which party they're in. [11:25] And they're terrified of Trump. But the lower Trump's numbers go, the lower their numbers go. [11:30] And I already believe it's not possible for them to hold the House and the Senate. The question is, [11:36] how bad is the damage going to be as each one of them decides that it's in their best interest [11:40] politically to abandon Trump? And that's what they're going to have to do. And I think give [11:44] the Democrats credit for forcing votes on a lot of stuff that they would not like to vote on. [11:48] And Juanita, when you look at a third of Republican voters against Trump, [11:53] that is different than the narrative. And it suggests that this is the overall approval. But we have, [11:59] I think, the Republicans specifically, we may have. And I would just say it undercuts everything we've [12:08] ever heard. It looks like the MAGA base, there you go, 31 percent, not resilient for Trump. [12:14] I mean, Ari, it gets even worse when you dig into issues specific. And I think it's at 47 percent of [12:20] Republicans disapproving of Trump's efforts to ease the cost of living problems that they're facing. [12:26] And that number also includes 89 percent of independents. These are the voters that Republicans [12:32] chase after, election cycle after election cycle. And they're looking at Trump like, [12:37] you are literally making our lives worse. And to Howard Dean's point, they're also looking at [12:42] congressional Republicans like, you're not doing anything to stop him from making my life worse. [12:48] They have made no effort to rein Trump in on Iran war powers. They have made no effort to [12:52] rein in Trump on tariffs, right? Like, these are the things that are impacting people's day-to-day [12:57] lives. And as you put up that graphic earlier, are about the additional 16 billion dollars that [13:03] people are paying at the pumps just since February 28th, when Trump and Netanyahu started this war with [13:10] Iran, a war that no one wanted, a war that Trump still has not provided the public with a reason or [13:16] justification or an explicit plan for. It makes people angry. And I think that's what's coming up [13:22] in the snapshot poll. But Ari, we understand polls are a snapshot in time. I want to see how long this [13:30] carries on, because we know that this is not a snapback situation with gas prices going down. We know that [13:36] Trump is exclusively focused on funding the war, not child care, not Medicare, not Medicaid, or anything [13:42] outside of this war in Iran. And so how much more will Republicans accept as their bank accounts are [13:49] pummeled by Trump's and Republicans' policies? Yeah. I mean, Howard, to that point, you have a kind [13:56] of a failure of imagination by a lot of folks in Washington to see that he's really lost the plot. [14:03] He hasn't had, you know, two weeks of good media coverage since maybe the very beginning of his term, [14:10] something he tracks closely. And from Epstein to the way they started the year to the war to now the [14:16] economy, you can see that the so-called influencers or the MAGA pundits are much more eager to draw the [14:23] line before the midterms. Contrast that to you said that the politicians are politicians, but House [14:29] Republicans are not as vocal yet. You're saying they'll get vocal if it's this bad when they're [14:34] out on the stump? Yeah, I think it's going to be too late for them. I think they're terrified of Trump. [14:39] They're absolutely terrified of Trump. They're almost none. And the ones that who have crossed him [14:44] left. So there's no backbone in the Republican Party at all. I mean, the whole message of the [14:52] GOP is hate. The message of the Democrats is hope. Now, I think we have not been terribly nimble in [14:59] taking care of this stuff other than outside the Beltway, Democrats, governors and so forth. But [15:06] even inside the Beltway, they're getting better. They finally have woken up to the fact that this is not a [15:11] successful president, and they don't have to be afraid of him. And their constituents are furious [15:15] with the Democrats, which is why they poll so poorly and why there's going to be an age revolution. [15:22] There's going to be a lot of 45-year-olds in the House and the Senate next year, and some of them [15:25] will have displaced Republicans who are in their 70s, Democrats who are in their 70s. Some of them [15:30] will also have replaced Republicans in their 70s. There's an age revolution going on in this country, [15:35] and frankly, I think it's about time. And Juanita, when you look at the Democrats then, is this [15:41] now more than you would have known a year ago? Is this fundamentally an economy election, [15:47] or do you think they have to still kind of go no kings and take on all of the different [15:51] panoply of Trump problems? All right, I've been shot in affordability for over a year now, [15:57] right? Like, it's explicitly clear that people want to be able to afford their lives. They want to also [16:03] improve the quality of their lives. We see both declining in real time as their day-to-day [16:10] needs, whether that's food, shoes, cars, clothes, are still beyond reach. Like, these are, the reality [16:18] is, Ari, we're seeing a spike in individuals relying on credit cards and buy now, pay later to get [16:23] groceries. People cannot keep up with the reality of the inflation and price surges that they're [16:31] experiencing. And this predates Trump's war in Iran. Think back to the terrorists, right? Like, [16:36] this is all self-imposed. And I think that's something that you mentioned earlier in the [16:40] comparison with Carter, too. Yeah. And so, Howard, when you looked at just the sampling we showed of [16:46] the hearings today, you had a lot of Trump officials, and they're saying, we're going to get gas prices [16:51] back down. We don't know how fast and maybe not as good as they were. When you talk about the oil [16:57] pipeline in the Strait of Hormuz, people say, well, eventually we're going to get it open. [17:02] Okay, well, it was open. We just had the very decorated Admiral McRaven on, and he speaks very [17:08] carefully. But I want to play for you and viewers how he, in a very clear kind of diplomatic way, [17:16] referred to the fact that since the date the war started, that Trump has put the U.S. on a worse [17:20] footing. When we look at where we are today, you know, prior to, you know, to February 28th, [17:28] the Straits were open. Yes, you had a regime, but the Israeli intelligence would tell you the [17:33] regime in place now is more hardline. You know, we have unfortunately lost soldiers. We've expended [17:39] a lot of blood and treasure. And so are we in a better strategic position? Howard, he lays out [17:46] reasons as a military man why we're basically not. Yeah, well, we're clearly not. But, you know, [17:54] this stuff, this attack on the middle class and the start of the day that Trump took office, [17:58] they look at all the tariffs. Think of the billions and billions of dollars that people [18:03] paid in tariffs. That money is not going back, no matter what the Supreme Court said. It's going [18:08] to the businesses that paid the tariffs, but the businesses are under no obligation to fund the [18:14] ordinary Americans who paid that. This is Trump has been the worst president for the middle class [18:19] in any president in my lifetime. And that's you think you're pointing out that even with this [18:24] court stopping the tariffs, because Trump, again, lost, blew it, didn't didn't build them [18:29] in the right way. You're pointing out that it's basically still a pro one percent kind of trickle [18:34] up program. Absolutely. And let me just say one thing in defense of Jimmy Carter. I got into politics [18:41] because Jimmy Carter, he was an upstanding human being who brought the first peace treaty between [18:47] an Arab state and Israel. He was a remarkable, remarkable human being. Was he a strong president? [18:55] I respect it. Was he a strong president? Was he good on Iran policy? [18:59] No. Well, no, probably not. It would be. Probably not. [19:04] No, the Iran, well, the Iran policy was, look, the people who run Iran are thugs and they have been [19:08] for as long as, you know, they run Iran. So he didn't really have control over what they were going [19:13] to do. Could he have somehow seen, had a vision that they were going to take over the embassy and [19:18] all this kind of stuff? Maybe he should have gone and blown the hell out of everybody, which might [19:22] have cost us the lives of our hostages. So I don't look. Do I think he made mistakes? Jimmy Carter made [19:28] mistakes. He was also probably the greatest ex-president the United States has ever had. And that [19:33] honor will never befall Donald Trump. You see, Juanita, when Howard Dean has your back, [19:39] he has your back. Even in a bad news cycle, we respect it. Howard Dean, Juanita Tolliver, [19:45] thank you very much. I want to tell folks, I mentioned at the top, we showed you some of those [19:49] clips. I told you we have more. We do. You got to see it to believe it. The tucker of it all, [19:53] we're going to break down why this matters and why the worst may be yet to come for Trump. [20:00] I mean, we're implicated in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, well, I changed my mind [20:06] or like, oh, this is bad. I'm out. If you talk politics in America on any regular basis, [20:15] you've probably heard someone ask, or you yourself have had the question, when are they going to say [20:20] enough's enough? Well, when? Now, this week. Trump's bag of base is splintering in a more [20:28] high-profile way than we've seen this term. You take Tucker Carlson, who, as I emphasize, [20:33] is not just another conservative who kind of zigs and zags on different issues. This is someone who broke [20:39] tradition and the journalistic rules of his former employers to go out and campaign for Trump at the [20:46] convention, at MSG. That's something you didn't even see most other Fox hosts do. So he went that [20:52] far only to take it all back this week and apologize for even helping get us in this situation at all, [20:58] for getting Trump elected. We're implicated in this for sure. Yes. It's not enough to say, [21:06] well, I changed my mind. We're like, oh, this is bad. I'm out. You and me and millions of people [21:11] like us are the reason this is happening right now. I do think it's like a moment to wrestle with [21:16] our own consciences. You know, we'll be tormented by it for a long time. I will be. And I want to [21:25] say I'm sorry for misleading people. It was not intentional. That's all I'll say. He's sorry. [21:32] He's tormented. This is something to wrestle with as a matter of your conscience. This sounds like [21:38] you committed a sin. You did something terrible. And I emphasize that because there's plenty of times [21:43] in politics where you say, oh, you picked this policy. It didn't work out. You picked this [21:47] person early on. And over time, they didn't deliver. There are failed political careers in [21:53] both parties. There are votes people might reflect upon differently. He's talking about it at a moral [21:59] level, which tells you either he thinks it's that bad or he knows his audience thinks it's that bad. [22:06] Either way, it's bad. Now, that's kind of the money clip when you talk about this and what goes viral [22:14] these days or what clip you keep seeing on MS Now across our different shows. That was like it. [22:19] That's the money clip. There's more because if you peel back the layers, Carlson has gone up against [22:26] some Trump policies in recent weeks. The war, which is, of course, a huge issue for him and his audience [22:33] and what he calls a betrayal. Now we're in a weird moment and even stranger moment where a lot of people [22:42] who really like Trump are very disappointed in Trump. In fact, more than disappointed, [22:47] feel betrayed or enraged, feel like suckers, feel like they've been taken for a ride. How could I [22:52] possibly have supported that given what it became? This is why we're not just dealing in theories. [23:00] Tucker Carlson refers to a lot of people who like Trump feeling betrayed. So either he has the evidence [23:07] to back that up. I showed you a third of Republicans turning on Trump or he has that idea in his head. [23:12] And that's part of what he says out loud has led him away from Trump. So this is bigger than Tucker. [23:19] That's bad for the White House. Tucker also knew better. A fact check that's important, even if [23:25] people want to welcome folks who join the No Kings movement or whatever you want to call what Tucker's [23:31] going to become. We don't ignore the facts around here because of a lawsuit. Private text messages, [23:37] which I mentioned to you, show how Carlson said he hated Trump passionately and that because of [23:45] Trump's demise then, he was excited that, quote, we are very, very close to being able to ignore [23:49] Trump most nights. I truly can't wait. That was around the insurrection period in 21. A few years [23:57] later, Tucker was campaigning for the man that he passionately hated and wanted to condemn to the [24:02] dustbin of cable news history. The Times reported how they were chuckling together at that RNC that I [24:08] mentioned that Carlson said Trump is the funniest person I've ever met in my life. He's a wonderful [24:12] person. I know him well. Now, Carlson is also, in addition to saying his audience and Trump fans [24:19] are upset now, he also says there was a kind of epiphany because the Iran policy is what changed [24:25] everything. Others, however, don't buy it. I don't believe him. He's not getting a bear hug from me. [24:34] I don't think, you know, the world's on fire and you can't just say oopsies. Is he now claiming he had no [24:39] idea that Donald Trump held the position that he would never permit Iran to have nuclear weapons? [24:44] If that's what he's saying today, he's kind of a moron. That's big. I mean, Tucker Carlson [24:49] apologizing for helping Trump get a lot. I believe they call that liar's remorse. It's [24:54] liar's remorse, buyer's remorse, situational ethics based on what your own podcast fans want to hear. [25:04] There are other accounts that this is just too little too late to see Carlson break with Trump. [25:09] Rolling Stone notes as anything other than a calculated beacon for his next political life [25:13] raft would be to engage in the kind of blindness Carlson would like us all to believe he was [25:19] afflicted with by chance. Remember, we have the text from 2021. We know that in his private moments, [25:31] Tucker said, A, he hated Trump passionately and B, he couldn't wait to move past him. Maybe he's been [25:38] waiting on this moment for the ensuing five years in between. Another time to look past him. [25:43] Whatever it is, it is bigger than Tucker. It is the connective tissue between the now third of all [25:51] identified Republicans who oppose Trump and the energy and economic crisis that has curdled the rest of [25:58] the thinking, observing American electorate against this economy. What comes next could be even more severe. [26:05] We have someone who thinks a lot about these issues, maybe so you don't have to. The Bulwark's [26:09] Will Sommer is here next. Will Sommer is a Bulwark reporter who covers this MAGA space, among other [26:19] topics. Welcome. Thanks for having me. I don't know if you remember the old saw that being in love means [26:27] never having to say you're sorry. Of course. Yeah. Doesn't really make sense because you end up saying [26:35] sorry a lot in love and relationships. But Tucker loved Trump so much, he campaigned for him. And in a very [26:42] short period of time, says he's sorry, he's wrestling. We showed it all. What's happening [26:46] here? And what can you tell us for folks who aren't following the MAGA discourse as closely as you might? [26:53] Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like you said in the earlier segment, I think we're looking at really [26:57] kind of an ethical break in the MAGA movement between people like Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, [27:03] Marjorie Taylor Greene, other figures, and Trump and sort of more mainline establishment MAGA people like [27:10] maybe Mark Levin on Fox News or Ben Shapiro. You know, there's been a lot of bad feelings in MAGA [27:15] going back to Trump's attempt to close the Jeffrey Epstein case after the Charlie Kirk assassination. [27:20] There were sort of more risks that opened. But I think it's really blown wide open here with the [27:25] Iran war where people like Tucker Carlson, clearly now that the war hasn't been wrapped up, I mean, [27:29] they're looking around and they're saying not only maybe this isn't what I wanted, but also just in [27:34] practical terms, they're realizing they kind of need to ditch Trump and get ready for the next thing. [27:38] Yeah. And what does that look like for someone like Tucker? On the one hand, he's got decades in public [27:45] life. There was a pre-Trump Tucker. On the other hand, he did hitch pretty close. [27:52] Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, on one hand, you know, we're at a point where Tucker is now implying that [27:56] Trump might be the Antichrist. He's saying he might want to be bigger than a god. He might want to destroy [28:00] religion. I mean, so that's how bad it's gotten. You know, J.D. Vance is obviously relatively tied to the war as [28:06] well. Tucker was very close with J.D. Vance. Maybe Tucker will run for president himself. But as you [28:12] said, I mean, he has to sort of craft this new what comes after MAGA. And I think we're seeing more [28:18] and more people try to prepare themselves for it. And it looks like it's not going to be whatever [28:23] Trump wants it to be. Which again speaks to his slipping grip. He makes a lot of noise about a lot [28:30] of things. A lot of damage has been done and we've documented it. So we're not minimizing it. [28:35] But this idea that Donald Trump can decide who the next nominee is or he wants a third term or [28:43] indict 30 people and get them jailed. None of them have been jailed. So there's a lot of gap there. [28:50] And the power that he has domestically seems to be ebbing politically, even as, of course, [28:54] he can start wars. We all see that. Here is Charlemagne, who's been a pretty independent minded [29:00] political figure discussing the impact. He's going to stick to Republicans. He's going to [29:08] stick to MAGA. OK, if MAGA is still the dominant force in the Republican Party, just because he [29:12] soured on Trump doesn't mean he's jumped off the MAGA train. So Democrats, y'all got what you need. [29:16] OK, Tucker said he was wrong. Tucker said he misled the people. Y'all should be clipping that up [29:21] and getting it ready for attack ads in all the upcoming elections, because anyone Tucker endorses [29:26] that's in opposition to your party. You can just put that clip in campaign ads and say, [29:31] are you really going to listen to someone who got it so wrong? OK, well, I think there's something [29:39] to that. I mean, look, I think that the MAGA movement, you know, in part led by Tucker and [29:43] other figures is really fractured right now. I think there's kind of a hardcore Fox News [29:48] watching base that is going to go with Trump for whatever he wants as with 32, 33 percent of people [29:53] in the country. But I think, you know, younger people, they're disillusioned, even a lot of young [29:58] people on the right. And they're kind of looking at Trump as someone who doesn't represent [30:01] them. And, you know, it can't help that you have figures like Tucker saying, whether it's Trump's [30:05] the Antichrist or people like Candace Owens saying he's a hawk to Israel. He's taking fire from a lot [30:11] of different places. I mean, look, even Megyn Kelly, who I think is very much a mercenary figure, [30:15] is getting off the Trump train. Yeah. And again, that speaks to what's out there. And they're closer [30:20] to it than a bubbled political system, as we know, that is quite sclerotic and has a longer time it [30:27] takes to absorb what's happening. They clearly seem to think, and Tucker said it out loud, [30:30] people are really done with this on the right, a chunk of them. Will, good to see you. [30:36] Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Appreciate it. When you look at Republicans trying to rig or [30:40] redistrict their way out of their problems that we've also discussed tonight going into November, [30:45] well, that is failing. We have that story next. So no shines back in New York to headline a [30:49] Brooklyn show celebrating his classic self-titled album's 25th anniversary, a project that paired [30:54] his iconic deep Biggie style baritone with Caribbean appeal. Memorable assist from Barrington Levy, [31:01] who we heard there for a moment. And as the then 21-year-old reflected on values over materialism, [31:06] he rapped, it doesn't matter whether my pocket's slim or fatter, whether it's BBQ or Mr. Chow's [31:11] platter, even if I slip off the success ladder, even if the paragraphs don't hit the charts and [31:17] smash, no Cartier charms, no Chandon, just a bottle of Evian. Come on. [31:22] Look at that. That's the 19-year-old shine. 19-year-old shine saying it's about us. It's not about the [31:30] money. The classic. It's not about the money. Great to see you back here. [31:33] Had great perspective, didn't that young man? That young man had great perspective. It was good [31:37] to be here. Good to have you. A lighter too, sir. Take a lighter. I'm excited to talk to you about [31:41] everything, and our audience is going to learn about how you went from artistry to politics. [31:45] But you're the hometown guest, so I go to you first. What's on your fallback list? [31:50] Well, it's interesting. DeSantis is still not scheduled, the redistricting vote in Florida. [31:59] So maybe it's not only time after the big Virginia win yesterday that the Republicans fall back on [32:08] mid-decade redistricting. Or maybe they should fall back on falling back, because there's something [32:13] called dummy mandarin. Have you heard of that? Dummy mandarin. Enlighten us. [32:18] In Nigeria mandarin, dummy mandarin, where you do so much redistricting on their part that they [32:26] dilute some of the Republican district strongholds that they have. Because in order to redraw [32:34] districts, safe districts do get diluted. And he's even said that we might want to think about this. [32:42] Some people think he was waiting to see what was going to happen in Virginia yesterday, DeSantis. [32:46] But he has said that with the turnover, we were just talking in the green room, about the prospects [32:52] of the Democrats winning back the House, those prospects should increase. The more they redistrict, [32:58] the more Democratic states do, and also the more they redistrict. It becomes dummy mandarin, [33:04] because those seats that have been safe and have been traditionally red have an even greater chance [33:10] of flipping. Right. They think they're going to play the game and they're going to play themselves. [33:13] That's right. Yeah. It's really interesting. And we saw that in sort of abandoned and others really [33:18] flipping out, because one piece is, did your trick work? And the other piece is, what kind of year are we [33:23] going into? And if you're going into a wave year or a tidal wave, you can't easily redistrict that. [33:29] Shine, welcome back. What's on your fallback list? [33:32] Fall back on this weather. I mean, I need the summertime in New York. I did not sign up for [33:40] this. It was nicer last week. It was great last week. I thought that we had come to terms. Yeah. [33:45] I'm not happy right now. Not happy with that. And I'm looking at the forecast for next week. I was [33:51] under the impression that May 2nd was going to be in full summer mode. So yeah, need to fall back on [33:58] this weather. Respect. How do you feel about the weather? We don't talk about the weather that much [34:02] around here. No, but it is cooler than I expected. And it's cool. I was in Geneva last week for the [34:10] UN Permanent Forum on people of African descent, where some of your fellow citizenry was present [34:16] from throughout the diaspora. And it was cold there. Left in the cold, came back to the cold. [34:24] Love it. It'd be nice to get a little break. So my brother's invited me to Belize. So let's hit it. [34:29] That's right. Let's hit it. Belize is beloved for many reasons. You are, as mentioned, [34:34] an artist who then went into politics. That's right. Award winning artist, by the way. [34:40] Award winning. Come on now. Hip hop. And leader of the opposition [34:44] house of representatives. In Belize. Not just some old regular politician. Yeah. We've got some [34:49] headlines. We've got Mom Donnie is now this young mayor in New York who's actually briefly an [34:54] ex-rapper. When they put out his income recently, they showed he was still getting a tiny bit of [34:58] residuals. You got Cardi B working with him on programs. You got, of course, Obama's legacy, [35:04] where he did help mainline this. And we've seen this down in Atlanta. Talk to us about your journey. [35:12] Well, I love music and music is about people communicating to people, communicating for [35:27] people. I consider myself a voice of the people. And then getting into politics was seamless because [35:36] you're advocating for people, but in a life changing way that's a bit different than music, [35:42] because music is life changing. You know, I saw Nas a few days ago and I told him how he changed my [35:48] life. And he was the reason that I got to the House of Representatives because as a young kid, [35:54] he encouraged me to be intellectual street. Yeah, it was educational. And to think. Yeah. To be a [36:00] critical thinker. Black girl lost. Could go into a million songs that Nas enlightened. And so music can [36:10] change your life, change your mood. But the legislator, we were just talking about policies. [36:15] You know, I'm a centrist. I'm not red or blue, but we're talking about policies and and how, you know, [36:22] what Congress can do or can't do to help the American people and getting involved in politics in Belize. [36:30] You can really make a difference in people's lives if you're honest to your mandate. And did people like [36:36] that you had a background as an artist or did you have to overcome that? Well, Belize is a bit more [36:42] colonial minded, unfortunately, uh, whereas, uh, they feel that only the lawyers, [36:50] uh, you know, the medical doctors or the PhDs, these are the only people qualified to be in the [36:57] legislature. And so certainly whether you're award winning or not, uh, a rapper has no place. [37:03] You like to overcome that. In the, in the legislator and certainly not one who was held in captivity [37:07] and did a vacation in, uh, Clinton, Denimora. How about that? Yeah. Well, I, I feel you. But, [37:13] you know, um, this is a timely conversation, if you don't mind me saying, because our brother's story [37:20] is, is one of, you know, really changing and improving his life and, and letting our young men know [37:29] that they can do the same thing, especially in this hour already, when we've seen this spate of [37:35] violence against our families, uh, Nancy Mattire and, um, Serena Fairfax, the Shreveport eight, [37:42] which opens the door for the further stereotyping of black men in trouble, black men, violent. Um, [37:49] and anything we can do to end as black men, our assimilation into the power patriarchy that causes [37:58] us to commit violence against our families, our children and one another in the streets [38:03] is what we must do. So this brother is an example of how far we can come from that assimilation and [38:13] make a difference. Right. And end up in the halls of power. I got 20 seconds. Any shout out to our New [38:18] York viewers for the show? What do they need to know? I can't wait to see people from all over. [38:24] They're coming in with definitely big Brooklyn energy, big New York energy, uh, to celebrate 25 [38:30] years of the shine album. And you know, the last time I was here, I was a diplomat. Yeah. But now I'm [38:36] here as shine Poe. Shine Poe. Uh, we love it. It'll be, I know a good show in, in Brooklyn. Uh, everyone [38:44] check out May 2nd, that out May 2nd, uh, shine and Mark Thompson. We'll be right back.