The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle 4/22/26 — MSNBC Breaking News Today April 22, 2026

[0:01] Good evening once again. I am Stephanie Ruhl and welcome to the midweek nightcap. As the war with Iran seems nowhere near an end, the nation is tightening its grip on the Strait of Hormuz. Surprise, surprise. Today, Iran fired on three separate ships in the waterway and seized two of them. This is while the U.S. is still locating Iranian ports. The attack on these ships adds even more uncertainty to the situation, especially considering Donald Trump declared that he would extend the ceasefire yesterday. [0:29] Trump is already back to one of his previous talking points, teasing that a new round of peace talks with Iran could begin as soon as Friday, though there seems to be no other evidence to show that those talks are imminent or even a possibility. [0:43] So it seems like the U.S. and Iran are now in a standoff again as Pakistan, along with the rest of the world, is pushing for some kind of resolution to this conflict that has now caused a global energy crisis and rattled the world's economy. [0:56] We've got a lot to cover tonight, so let's get started and bring in our nightcap. [1:01] David Rodas here, MSNOW senior national security reporter, Ron Insana, veteran financial journalist and publisher of The Message of the Markets on Substack. [1:09] John Avalon, journalist and host of the Bulwark podcast that seriously you should listen to, How to Fix It, with John Avalon and my dear friend Eddie Glaude, Princeton professor and MSNOW contributor. [1:20] David, you know we're going to you first. Clearly the president wants to restart peace talks again. [1:25] You know, every investor that I speak to is like, yeah, the president wants out, he wants out, he wants out. [1:32] He might want out, but it seems like Iran is saying take a hike. [1:37] Like, how do these Iranian attacks on these ships change that situation? [1:41] To show that the Iranians are saying take a hike. [1:45] I mean, the president, he keeps changing his message, but one of his messages is that the promise that the Iranians are so divided. [1:50] So I asked Vali Nasser, he's a leading expert on Iran, do you think the Iranian regime is divided, is it the fault? [1:58] And he told me, I think they are divided on whether to trust Donald Trump or not. [2:03] One group says Islamabad is a waste of time and Trump is not serious. [2:06] Another group says it could yield results. [2:08] So his changing rhetoric, these constant threats of destroying the civilization, then he backs off with a ceasefire of two weeks, then it's a ceasefire, an indefinite ceasefire, and now it's four or five days. [2:21] The Iranians don't trust Donald Trump himself because he's so erratic. [2:26] You don't say. [2:27] John, here's the thing. [2:29] The president clearly seems, I'm not going to say intent on ending the war, but at the very least anxious to get this thing done. [2:35] But Iran is more willing to wait it out, given that, what kind of deal, at best, is Trump going to get from them? [2:41] None. [2:42] In a word, none. [2:44] I mean, I'm just sorry here. [2:45] I mean, you know, the Iranians are divided by whether they can trust Donald Trump. [2:49] Yeah. [2:49] I mean, really? [2:51] So is the rest of the, so is his own administration. [2:53] Yeah, but beyond that, I mean, like, Trump just declared a ceasefire that was supposed to be sort of open-ended and definitive in the next day. [3:01] Boom. [3:02] Right? [3:03] You know, stick in the eye. [3:04] Why? [3:05] Because they recognize that Trump actually wants to turn the page. [3:10] He doesn't like the TV show anymore, but he started something he can't finish, which is always the problem with striking Iran, which is why, you know, this hasn't been done previously. [3:20] So he can try to, you know, reality distortion is filled out of it, but it's not going to affect the facts on the ground or the implications for the rest of the world, let alone the region. [3:28] Let's talk about the political miscalculation, because the Washington Post is reporting that the Pentagon told Congress that clearing the mines out of the Strait of Hormuz will take six months. [3:37] And that doesn't even start until the war is over. [3:41] Given that, you're looking at gas prices staying elevated through the midterms. [3:46] And I am quite sure Democrats are going to run on that. [3:50] How much of a miscalculation was this? [3:52] I think it's a devastating miscalculation in the sense that we're not talking about prices anymore. [3:57] We're going to be talking about shortages. [4:00] Oh, excellent point. [4:01] Right? [4:01] Yes. [4:02] So we're already seeing it in South Asia. [4:04] We're already seeing it throughout the global south. [4:06] We're going to see the impact of this in terms of supply chains, in terms of the very ways in people, the very ways in which people go about living their lives. [4:13] So we're talking about prices at the pump. [4:16] That's one thing. [4:17] But what does it mean when we just don't have it anymore? [4:20] Right? [4:20] And we're going to have to pay exponentially more for airline tickets. [4:26] And this for a war that you can't even find an American voting bloc to be behind. [4:30] Take us there. [4:32] Help us understand what it would look like for the global economy, right, if energy, global economy and energy, if it takes that long to clear the strait. [4:42] Well, you have none, right? [4:43] In certain parts of the world, you literally will have no fertilizer. [4:46] Explain this to us. [4:47] So, first of all, right now, there's almost a moratorium on oil production in the Middle East because all the tanks are full. [4:54] And in order to drain them, you have to be able to load the tankers, move the oil to the rest of the world, [4:59] delete those tankers, or actually deplete those tankers, and then start production again so you can start filling them back up. [5:06] That in and of itself takes weeks, if not months. [5:09] And then getting the oil or any other product from the strait to other parts of the world can take weeks to months. [5:14] So, there's already an enormous tail on what's transpired thus far. [5:19] And so, if you look out several more weeks, several more months, this could be the remainder of the year where things like oil, natural gas, fertilizer, helium, plastics may not be available. [5:31] And Eddie mentioned the global south. [5:33] I think if there's one place on the planet that is going to be absolutely devastated by this, given that you cannot grow food without adequate amounts of fertilizer, it's going to be the poorest nations on the planet. [5:42] And they are in for a crisis of pandemic-style proportions if this were to persist for a period of time. [5:48] Holy smoke. [5:49] Then everything these gentlemen have just laid out just puts more and more and more pressure on Donald Trump. [5:54] So, at best, is he hoping to get an Iran deal that basically looks like Obama's deal? [6:00] And if that is what he gets, how does that look on the world stage? [6:04] How do you spin that? [6:05] How do you spin that in this country? [6:07] Because it is going to be very similar. [6:08] He's going to have to send some money back to Iran, these billions of dollars of frozen assets that they have. [6:12] $20 billion. [6:13] Yes. [6:13] And they're going to want some sort of nuclear. [6:15] Do you remember how much Republicans? [6:17] 1.3 billion dollars. [6:18] John was probably a Republican back then. [6:19] No, I was not a Republican. [6:23] Stephanie, you know better than that. [6:25] But, like, for real. [6:27] Like, do you remember what that was like? [6:29] They savaged the Obama administration for this. [6:31] And then the short-term strategy right now, and one of our editors here at MS asked us to look at this today. [6:38] We called six experts about who will blink first in terms of the economic pain. [6:42] Iran, with a blockade, or the U.S. and the world economy. [6:47] Six of the seven said the U.S. is going to blink first. [6:50] Because of the cliff you're talking about. [6:53] Right, and that's with Iran suffering economic damage equal to its GDP. [6:58] But they have lived under sanctions for years. [7:01] They're playing a long-term game. [7:03] I was told if this continues for the end of April, all of the pain you see in Asia now, the lack of gas, is going to hit the U.S. [7:11] And Trump has to make an Obama-like deal. [7:13] But this also is the fallacy of the idea that after the Ayatollah was taken out, that you would see people taken to the streets and taken back. [7:21] Instead, you get a consolidation of nationalism when your country is attacked, right? [7:25] Wow. [7:26] Even if you don't like the regime, and this isn't rocket science, but this is what we're facing right now. [7:31] And those geopolitical implications you're talking about, the economic implications, the United States wasn't sold the case for this war. [7:38] So there's not going to be an appetite. [7:41] Even if the members of the cabinet are coming on stage saying, oh, just suck up the gas prices for the good of the country and the world. [7:47] That's not sticking because it hasn't been sold. [7:49] You know who else wasn't sold on the case for this war? [7:52] Our European allies. [7:53] That's right. [7:53] Now you've got the U.K. and France leading an international coalition of 30 countries working together to try to reopen the strait. [8:01] And what country is not in there? [8:03] The United States of America. [8:04] Are we seeing the consequences of Donald Trump super bashing NATO over the last decade? [8:09] Absolutely. [8:10] We're seeing the consequences of that in the sense that the post-World War II consensus has collapsed. [8:14] We're seeing the consequences of that as the U.S. sees his leadership role. [8:18] The historian Timothy Snyder says, what we're witnessing in real time is superpower suicide. [8:26] Superpower suicide. [8:27] He's saying we're witnessing it in real time as the U.S., for whatever reasons, deliberately undermines its standing around the globe. [8:37] Superpower suicide, and yet the markets keep on rocking. [8:41] New all-time highs for the NASDAQ and the S&P 500. [8:44] Now, so we have to, again, as we have in prior conversations, have to separate out certain aspects of this. [8:50] Once again, corporate profits are very strong. [8:53] They're up double digits year over year. [8:55] And so investors who pay money to engage in participating with the growth of corporate profits bid up stocks. [9:03] That's just how it is. [9:04] Oil prices were also up today as well, a couple of dollars. [9:06] So there's some cognitive dissonance here, to be sure, when you look at financial markets and their behavior. [9:13] But it's a very parochial environment on Wall Street. [9:19] And so what's good for Wall Street may have absolutely nothing to do with Main Street or the rest of the world right now. [9:23] Well, then let's talk about Main Street. [9:24] Donald Trump ran on being the dealmaker-in-chief and no new wars. [9:28] I just don't understand, right? [9:30] There are many, many things. [9:31] He's an extraordinary salesman and quite the politician. [9:35] But I don't know how you can spin these two things. [9:38] And are we believing this crack in MAGA that we're seeing, I want to say, for the first time now? [9:44] Yes. [9:45] Really? [9:45] Yes. [9:46] And here's why. [9:47] First of all, spoiler alert, he lied. [9:50] Spoiler alert, he always has. [9:52] Exactly right. [9:52] But when you campaign the opposite of how you govern, people are going to get pissed off. [9:58] The other thing is people are starting to sense blood in the water because he is a lame duck. [10:03] Right? [10:03] Once you see that members of Congress get past their primary dates, all of a sudden you're getting a little more courage from these spineless Republicans who have been afraid to speak out because they've been afraid of a primary. [10:12] So people are starting to look to what's next. [10:14] And he's got this enormous self-made geopolitical crisis on his hands, which he doesn't have any answers for. [10:19] And for all the great salesman he is, that increases the civic sense of the fact he never sold it. [10:25] So, yeah. [10:26] And he's four percentage points away from having his approval rate in the 20s. [10:31] Yes. [10:32] Among independents, by the way, it's been in the 20s for a while. [10:34] All while he enriched himself to the tune of now being worth $6 billion. [10:39] And that doesn't even include how much Don Jr. and Eric have made. [10:43] But today, David, you reported the Secretary of the Navy was fired. [10:46] This is the second major personnel change at the Pentagon in the middle of a war. [10:52] Talk to us about this. [10:53] It's going to, it continues the sense of instability there. [10:56] It was the Army chief who was let go before this. [10:58] He was a very popular officer. [11:00] John Phelan did clash a lot with Hegseth himself. [11:04] He sort of pushed a kind of battleship that Hegseth didn't like. [11:08] But is now the time to do it? [11:11] Do you want to, you know, fire the Navy secretary as you're carrying out this blockade and in this naval power struggle with Iran? [11:19] Not very good timing. [11:20] The inmates are running the damn asylum. [11:22] This makes no sense. [11:24] And they're going to put, first of all, we know that Donald Trump wasn't temperamentally or dispositionally prepared to be the president of the United States. [11:32] We knew that. [11:32] And we know that Pete Hegseth, well, what do we know about Pete Hegseth, right? [11:37] There's a lot in his cup. [11:39] So part of what we do know is that these are the people we're going to entrust to put our loved ones in danger. [11:45] So here we are in a war and they're firing all of these people who have the competencies to execute it. [11:53] Is this about Pete Hegseth or Donald Trump or is it about the United States? [11:57] Because you started your answer with, we knew, we knew all of this, right? [12:01] Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump, this administrator, Howard Lutnig, Stephen Miller, take your pick. [12:06] Aren't they just a mirror looking? [12:08] This is who the United, this is who the American voter chose this time. [12:12] There were no surprises. [12:13] Right. [12:14] Yes. [12:15] And Congress confirmed all these people. [12:17] Yes. [12:17] Well, yeah. [12:18] And there's a lot of, for all the senators who approved the people they knew were unqualified, [12:25] whether it's Robert Kennedy Jr. or Kash Patel or Pete Hegseth, there's a special, you know, sin on their heads. [12:33] But there's a point, there were no surprises about them. [12:36] All of the things about them, we knew. [12:38] So the question is why? [12:40] Mm-hmm. [12:40] That's the question. [12:42] The question is why? [12:43] What were the superordinate values, those things that really motivated people to put the country [12:48] in the hands of these folks? [12:50] Being primaried, believe it or not. [12:52] No. [12:52] Self-interest on certain. [12:53] I mean, it's self-interest. [12:54] John, to you, and then David. [12:56] Look, people were pissed off about the border. [12:58] They were pissed off about a lot of things that were distractions. [13:00] So the culture war stuff. [13:01] Yeah. [13:02] Well, yeah. [13:02] Ah. [13:03] But I'm just saying, if you look at what happened, Democrats didn't have the confidence [13:08] of folks for being strong on the stuff that people cared about. [13:11] And the Bill Clinton quote I always quote, it's the most important quote in politics, [13:14] people vote for strong and wrong every time. [13:16] And that's what, but now we're dealing with the downstream effect of that. [13:20] And of course, the strong man's always the weak one. [13:22] So just really quickly, just sorry, John. [13:24] Yes, sir. [13:24] Yeah. [13:25] So our greed and our hatreds have come back to bite us in the ass. [13:29] Yep. [13:30] And we're right here. [13:33] I think in the Republican- [13:34] Just so you know, Eddie's currently winning this segment. [13:36] I know. [13:36] Can I like- [13:37] Pressure's on. [13:39] Probably the last answer for the segment. [13:40] Here you go. [13:41] I think all these Republicans came to believe that Donald Trump was this political genius [13:45] who had survived all this- [13:48] And I'm not saying any of the conspiracy theories are true. [13:49] And in terms of being a political genius, they could have a point that someone who'd done [13:54] what he did- [13:55] Yes, impeached twice. [13:56] Could get himself re-elected. [13:57] Survives the assassination, two assassination attempts, gets re-elected, and- [14:02] How about marketing genius instead? [14:03] Fine. [14:04] Correct. [14:04] A messaging savant. [14:05] Yeah. [14:06] But it was the greatest modern, I don't know, the greatest comeback politically in modern [14:09] American history. [14:11] And I think the Maduro thing and Trump himself, they just- [14:14] It was in the Times piece that talked about the decision-making to go into this war, that [14:18] the president had gut feelings. [14:20] He could feel in his bones when it was the right thing to do. [14:22] They had gotten Maduro, and he felt this Iran war was going to go well. [14:27] And as we've seen over and over in history, presidents overdo it and fail. [14:32] This is more than overdoing it. [14:34] This is more than overzealousness. [14:36] The intelligence was there, and he went in the opposite direction. [14:40] And look, but I just want to highlight the story. [14:42] This is the important stories that people might miss. [14:45] Pete Exeth just fired the Secretary of the Navy in the middle of a war where the strait [14:49] of war moves is the key issue. [14:51] A month after firing the Secretary of the Army, enormously respected professional. [14:56] You do not fire heads of qualified people, and failing in the Secretary of the Army may [15:02] be different categories, but you don't do it in the middle of a war. [15:04] That's a sign of weakness, not a sign of strength, seen with any sense of perspective. [15:08] You know what? [15:09] Good answer. [15:10] Nobody is going anywhere. [15:11] Ron, you better get ready for the next segment, because these guys really do it. [15:15] Ask me more questions. [15:15] You know what? [15:16] The next segment is really geared for Ron. [15:18] Senator Republicans have blocked all attempts to rein in Trump on his Iran war, but one senator, [15:25] Rand Paul, has not joined their ranks. [15:27] I'm going to ask him why just ahead. [15:28] But first, right after the break, the war has set off a surge in airline fuel prices. [15:34] It is just one of the things that put budget carrier Spirit Airlines at risk. [15:38] Now the White House might be ready to step in with a big rescue package, and guess what? [15:43] You are going to be footing the bill. [15:44] We're going to make Ron explain it. [15:45] The 11th Hour just getting underway on a Wednesday night. [15:53] It is time for Ron to shine. [15:54] Money, power, politics. [15:56] And the Trump administration is reportedly, like, I need you to pay attention to this, [16:00] nearing a deal to rescue, almost bankrupt, multiple times, Spirit Airlines. [16:06] People familiar with the matter tell the Wall Street Journal that the U.S. government could [16:10] loan the budget airline as much as $500 million, which would basically give the government the [16:15] option to own as much as 90% of the company. [16:19] Yeah, that's what we're looking to do. [16:21] The nightcap is still here. [16:22] David, Trump's own transportation secretary, Sean Duffy, told Reuters that using government [16:28] funds to rescue Spirit could, quote, put good money after bad. [16:33] And guess what? [16:33] You didn't need Sean Duffy to say that. [16:35] Anyone who's ever invested in anything could tell you that. [16:38] This is ultimately taxpayer dollars propping up a business that has failed repeatedly. [16:44] That's what, and the CEO of United Airlines said the same thing. [16:47] This is just, this is putting, this is a badly run company. [16:50] Other airlines are doing well. [16:52] There's no need for this. [16:53] The question is why Spirit, there's got to be some connection, some here to a Trump donor [16:59] or someone, I think. [17:00] That's what we're waiting to hear. [17:01] That's true. [17:02] I mean, we can't report that yet, but this is, yes, but I'm saying in so many ways, this [17:06] reeks of, is there some business person who's going to then take control of this company [17:13] when it's at the bottom and ride it to the top? [17:15] But it's not just Spirit, right? [17:17] We heard Lufthansa announced yesterday they're going to cut 20,000 flights through October. [17:21] United's CEO said they're most likely going to have to raise prices. [17:25] Why? [17:25] Because of the increased cost in jet fuel, and that is caused by the war in Iran. [17:30] Your reaction? [17:31] This is one of the shoes that keeps, going to keep dropping on the American people and [17:36] the world. [17:37] I mean, the bailout of a failed airline is also the, another thing, which is the opposite [17:41] of the way Republicans have campaigned for it. [17:44] Socializing, private socializing losses and privatizing profits. [17:47] Profits, right. [17:48] I'm just trying to shine here. [17:50] Oh, I'm coming to you. [17:50] And, but this is what they're institutionalizing now. [17:53] But it's a reminder of the pain that's caused by the Iran war is going to end up, you know, [17:58] really impacting Americans' wallets. [18:00] And look, none of this should distract from the fact the Islamic Republic of Iran was a [18:03] force for evil in the world. [18:04] For sure. [18:05] But, but, this ill-thought-out war with no strategy done on gut, run badly and firing [18:11] professionals is going to end up reaping the whirlwind when it comes to people's pocket [18:14] puts and Reagan costs. [18:15] This is not how free markets, this is not how capitalism works. [18:20] Do you remember when Donald Trump was running and they tried to scare the American people? [18:25] Do you know what democratic socialism is going to look like? [18:28] Do you understand, you know, the Darth Vader that is Bernie Sanders? [18:32] And now you've got Donald Trump saying, yep, we're going to potentially own 90% of an almost [18:38] failed budget airline. [18:40] Well, listen, it's been bankrupt twice in one year. [18:42] It failed to merge with Frontier. [18:44] There is no apparent briar, unless, as you suggest, there might be a friend of the president [18:49] on the other side of this transaction who wants to take it once it's scaled down and [18:53] bailed out. [18:53] But owning 90, governments, our government has not owned 90% of a private company and [18:59] has not done anything like this, except at the very depths of the pandemic and the very [19:03] depths of the great financial crisis. [19:04] This is absolutely an unnecessary move by the federal government for an airline that [19:08] has been underperforming for almost its entire existence. [19:11] So, they're either... [19:12] So, who's advocating for this? [19:14] Who in the White House is saying this is a great idea? [19:16] I have no idea, quite frankly. [19:16] I don't think anybody would. [19:17] I mean... [19:18] That's what's so interesting. [19:19] You can't figure out... [19:20] Listen, the administration will make the argument that the Biden administration blocked a merger [19:25] for Frontier. [19:26] But there were two lousy airlines. [19:28] Yes, yes. [19:29] But they will make the argument that the Biden administration was anti-business. [19:33] You had these two airlines and the Biden administration blocked them because they said they would be [19:37] too powerful. [19:38] That was most likely... [19:39] There's an argument to be made that you could have let that merger go through. [19:44] However, that has nothing to do with the fact that Spirit Airlines is now failing and [19:48] it's extraordinary that the administration potentially wants to do this. [19:51] And look, the merger you would block would be United American if you want to talk about [19:54] concentration of power, right? [19:55] Because those are two of the biggest airlines in the country. [19:57] So, yes, you could have let Frontier and Spirit, which are low-cost, poorly performing [20:02] airlines... [20:03] Tiny, yes. [20:03] ...merge and probably have no impact on prices or monopoly power or what have you. [20:08] But it's a strange thing to be saving an airline that would otherwise naturally go out [20:13] of business in a non-crisis environment. [20:15] Eddie, the American voter has carried the cost of inflation. [20:20] We carried the cost of tariffs. [20:22] We're now carrying the cost of the war. [20:23] How's the American voter that is struggling to pay for health care, that is dealing with... [20:29] Especially if you don't own your house, if you don't own stocks, how are they going [20:32] to stomach headlines like this? [20:35] I don't know. [20:36] I do know this, is that there's a deepening sense of melancholy. [20:41] There's a sense that the country is broken. [20:43] There's a sense of deep isolation that those who have rich oligarchs are hogging all of [20:53] the benefits while everyday, ordinary working people are busting their behinds as these folk [20:58] live in their gated communities and drive and party on their big yachts. [21:03] Get on the rocket ships. [21:04] This is the second gilded age. [21:07] Not a golden age, right? [21:09] And listen, Elon Musk will be a trillionaire this year. [21:12] He will be the 21st largest economy in the world by himself. [21:17] And it's a sense of corruption on a massive scale. [21:21] And this is not new. [21:23] The president also invested in a semiconductor company and a rare earth money mineral company. [21:28] And this is similar to the, you know, and it's similar to kind of a Middle Eastern autocracy [21:35] or Russian or a Chinese autocracy where you have family doing business with oligarch, oligarchic [21:41] industrial leaders and making huge amounts of money and just corruption. [21:46] But here's what's interesting. [21:47] Almost until now, right? [21:49] We talk about this constantly here, but for the last year and a half, it's the American [21:53] people don't care. [21:54] They're just trying to put food on their table. [21:56] It seems like that's shifting. [21:57] It really seems like more and more people, everyday folk that aren't politicos, are really [22:02] starting to say, hold on a minute. [22:04] How much are they making? [22:05] What are they doing? [22:06] As they're trying to fill their car with gas and it costs more and more every week. [22:09] That's right. [22:10] And they know the president of the United States has seen his wealth go up by billions of [22:14] dollars. [22:14] Billions with a B. [22:15] It is the most corrupt, objectively, this isn't political, objectively the most corrupt [22:19] administration or presidency we've seen. [22:22] But it's coming at the same time when the president's saying, you know what? [22:24] I campaigned on lowering costs for child care, but now we can't afford it. [22:28] But I want $200 billion or more for a war that I didn't sell the American people. [22:32] Plus $1.5 trillion defense budget. [22:37] It's the largest year-over-year increase in defense funding that's been requested since [22:42] World War II. [22:44] And this is where I think you're starting to see, look what happened in Hungary. [22:49] It is corruption that is often the galvanizing issue that leads pro-democracy movements to [22:54] success. [22:55] Because people get pissed off because they know something's going terribly wrong and [22:59] they're getting screwed and the guys in power are getting rich. [23:02] So pay attention to the political implications. [23:03] The idea that nobody cares about this, that was always spinning bullshit. [23:06] But just think of it, this week alone, FedEx, UPS, and DHL, who are submitting into the portal [23:13] to get their refund money back for the $166 billion from the government, and they're actually [23:18] trying to put together a plan to refund to their customers who incurred higher costs because [23:25] of the tariffs. [23:26] What is it going to say that we're experiencing unprecedented corruption in our government and [23:31] private businesses are doing more to help the American people curb the blow of inflation than [23:37] our government is? [23:39] You know, on a basic level, it just shows that the values are upside down. [23:44] We are in a bizarro world. [23:46] That the very notion that Trump's budget, of course, evidences its values, that he thinks [23:50] we're only supposed to provide for the defense, that the general welfare is no longer the [23:54] obligation of the country. [23:56] I know I'm sounding like an A-head, Steph, but there is a sense in the very ways in which [24:00] you've described it that we don't know what the substance of the social contract is. [24:04] You know, I can un-egghead you for just a minute because the bizarro world was actually [24:07] a Saturday Night Live skit during the Reagan years when they were making fun of James Watt, [24:11] who was the interior secretary and had no intention of protecting the environment in any way, [24:16] shape, or form. [24:17] And so we're having this done in orders of magnitude larger. [24:21] The concerns that we had during the Reagan years about who was not concerned about climate, [24:25] who was not concerned about the environment, this is an entirely different thing. [24:29] Let me say this, though, really quickly. [24:30] It's okay when it's happening to other people, when you're snatching folk from their families, [24:38] when it's hurting these other people who are not part of our tribe. [24:42] But the moment it touches you, the moment you feel like it's a deep kind of selfishness [24:48] that makes the idea of a democratic polity, right, just fragile. [24:54] It doesn't matter until it happens to me. [24:58] It's okay while it's happening to everybody else. [25:01] And so unless we address that selfishness, Steph, I don't know what the hell we're going to do. [25:05] It makes me think of Justin Sun. [25:07] Remember the big crypto guy and Trump got all of his legal woes to go away. [25:11] And what did he do? [25:12] He became one of the biggest investors in World Liberty Financial. [25:15] He's now suing World Liberty Financial, saying it's an illegal scheme. [25:19] Really, Justin? [25:20] You only figured that out now? [25:21] Everybody is staying here when we come back. [25:24] The Senate again rejects another attempt to limit the president's ability [25:27] to continue military operations against Iran. [25:30] And once again, Republican Senator Rand Paul broke from his party to vote with Democrats. [25:35] He's going to join me to discuss what.