Talking Politics EP 5 : Uttama Savanayana (Full interview)

[0:20] So, welcome to Talking Politics, a special interview program of Thai PBS World [0:25] designed to help you make sense of what is going on in Thai politics, [0:29] especially within the context of the upcoming election. [0:32] My guest today is Khun Utama Samanayon, Chairman of Phalang Pacharat Party's Policy Committee. [0:39] So, welcome to our program. Thank you. [0:41] Sawasdee krap. [0:42] Sawasdee krap. [0:43] So, you served as the industry and finance minister before, right? [0:47] Yes. [0:48] So, you have been sort of an insider to some extent. [0:51] So, you should know what the Thai politics is all about, right? [0:54] So, what is it like to be back in politics once again after a break of more than two years, right? [0:59] About two years. Yeah, a little bit more than two years. [1:02] I think it's been exciting. [1:04] Sort of different from, you know, the prior time that I was in politics, which was over two years ago. [1:14] I see. [1:15] A lot has been going on in Thailand, as we all know. [1:19] COVID. [1:20] You know, the economy and so on. [1:24] Even the domestic politics has changed quite a bit and so on. [1:32] So, I think it's an exciting time and I'm glad to be back. [1:35] All right. [1:36] So, welcome back to the exciting time. [1:38] Thank you. [1:39] You're talking about the difference between this upcoming election and the one we had four years ago. [1:44] Four years ago, you led Phalang Pacharat Party into the combat, right? [1:48] Yes. [1:49] So to speak. [1:50] You were a different candidate for prime minister. [1:52] Right. [1:53] And now you are supporting the former comrades-in-arms of General Pajut Janorcha, who is Pravin Wong Suwan, right? [2:00] So, besides the difference in supporting a different candidate for prime minister, [2:05] what do you think is the biggest difference between this upcoming election and the one we had four years ago? [2:10] I think the environment, the atmosphere certainly has changed. [2:16] The previous election and the upcoming. [2:19] I think the sort of the making up of the politics and also on the other main dimensions of the society, [2:33] the economy I mentioned before and other things are different this time. [2:40] So, that has, I think, impact politics also. [2:45] And therefore, the upcoming election would be different in terms of the atmosphere, [2:51] the tone, you know, what people are expecting from the upcoming election vis-à-vis the last one. [3:00] Do you think the outcome of this upcoming election is more difficult to predict than the last one [3:06] because of the party jumping by a large number of MPs and political realignment by many parties? [3:15] I think so. [3:17] I totally agree with you, Chet Chai. [3:20] It's more complex and therefore more difficult to predict the outcome as opposed to last time. [3:29] I see. [3:30] But, of course, you're hoping for the best for your party. [3:32] Certainly, certainly. [3:33] We've got to do that, right? [3:34] That's right. [3:35] Now, in the last election, your prime minister candidate was Khun Payut, right? [3:41] Right. [3:42] And the message back then was that Khun Payut was the guarantor of peace and order, stability, right, at that time. [3:48] But this time around, you have a different candidate. [3:50] Who is portraying himself as a peacemaker. [3:53] Right. [3:54] Someone who can cross over the political aisle, right? [3:56] Right. [3:57] And to bring about political reconciliation. [3:59] So what kind of political reconciliation that you think that Khun Prawit has in mind when you talk about that in this series of open letters? [4:09] Right. [4:10] I believe that what Khun Prawit has in mind is that because of what the country is facing today, all the challenges, [4:20] all the obstacles, we need to mobilize resources, people, you know, brain power, everything from different sectors of the economy, of the country, sorry. [4:37] As far as in politics, you know, we need to marshal everything that we can so that we could manage all these challenges. [4:46] And equally important, to move country forward. [4:49] And that is what I think Khun Prawit has in mind. [4:52] He is communicating that he is in the position to do that effectively for the country. [4:59] So what makes you think that Khun Prawit is suited for that role, the role of a peacemaker? [5:05] Because many people are not convinced given the fact that for eight years, he and Khun Prawit stood side by side. [5:13] And political reconciliation was not something that Khun Prawit ever cared about. [5:19] It's only when the election comes around then he will start talking about it. [5:22] Right. [5:23] I think we have to look at what he has done, his personal experience, which involves many areas. [5:31] As I said, the challenges are enormous for the country. [5:37] So I would think that we would need a leader that has sufficient experience, as I said, to take the country forward and to make sure that the government, the next government, if Khun Prawit has an opportunity, [5:54] to work in the next government, that the next government will be able to carry the tasks and mobilizing the strength that we have. [6:08] Now, he has, I think, tremendous experience, working experience in various roles, which I think we all know what he has done professionally. [6:21] But not only that. [6:22] In politics, he has had a lot of experience. [6:25] He has had extensive experience. [6:27] Even prior to joining the present government, he was in politics before. [6:33] Now, from where he has been up to today, and then in a couple of months, three months hopefully, we will see the next government. [6:46] Assume that he will be there in the next government as well. [6:50] I think he'll be able to leverage his experience, both professional experience as well as political experience. [6:57] in getting people together. [7:02] And my own observation of Khun Prawit is that he can do that. [7:10] He has the charisma to do that, frankly speaking, if you get to know him really. [7:18] And as we all know, that's important too in Thai politics, to be able to do that, right? [7:24] To talk to people, to sit and to have the patience. [7:29] To listen. [7:30] And then, you know, to say that, look, what has gone before has gone before. [7:37] Now, we are facing these challenges together. [7:40] So let's come and work together. [7:42] And I think he's in the position, he's well equipped to do that. [7:49] And what do you think has been the feedback or reaction to his message of reconciliation? [7:55] Besides the open letters that he has been sending out in recent weeks, did he have any private conversation [8:02] with other parties about his idea to bring about reconciliation? [8:07] Right. [8:08] I believe he has. [8:09] He has been communicating with various parties, you know, political parties as well as groups [8:17] from different sectors. [8:19] You know, we all encourage that within the party that Khun Prawit and all of us, you know, [8:27] be in touch with what the people want, what the society is looking for this time. [8:32] And sharing the ideas and thoughts. [8:35] And try together to come up with the best set of solutions that we can. [8:39] It's obvious that there have been attempts to remake his image. [8:44] Obviously. [8:45] Before this, of course, he always appeared to be looking like a real old man. [8:52] He's old, in fact. [8:53] By age. [8:54] By his age. [8:56] But in recent months, I mean, his image has been recast. [9:00] Right. [9:01] He looks more active and more approachable. [9:03] Right. [9:04] He takes questions from reporters, answers them without any hesitation in contrast to [9:10] what happened before when he only mumbled and said, I don't know, I don't know. [9:13] So has this remaking of his image been working? [9:17] I believe so. [9:18] I believe so. [9:20] That people get to see him more clearly in terms of what he is offering, you know, as [9:29] a party leader. [9:31] And as a potential leader of the next government. [9:35] And I think that has been coming out to the public. [9:41] Now, true, this is sort of a serious attempt. [9:46] You know, it's planned. [9:48] And I think that that is the way it should be. [9:52] If he's going to, Khun Praveen is offering his service to the Thai people, then he needs [9:59] to find the best way to communicate that. [10:01] Right. [10:02] And to show that and let the people judge based on that. [10:06] Now, during the past eight years, he didn't have the opportunity to do that, to be fair, [10:14] because of his role at that time. [10:16] But now that he has stepped into this role, he has volunteered his services, then he needs [10:24] to take his best effort to show and to communicate to the Thai people how he is and let them [10:34] see for all that he could offer. [10:37] Is it true that his short stint as the acting category prime minister, a monk, right, had [10:43] an effect on his political thinking that, well, finally, I think I can do this job myself? [10:49] I could only venture my view on this, because honestly, I haven't spoken to him or asked [10:57] him about this particular point. [10:59] But I've got to think that that experience is useful to Khun Praveen. [11:03] To be able to, at least, well, even for a few months, I don't remember how long that [11:10] is, but he got to assume the responsibility of a prime minister. [11:19] And I think that is good for what he's doing now to prepare himself and to take the party [11:28] forward. [11:29] You see, the Khun Praveen's message about the right to vote. [11:33] The Khun Praveen's message about the reconciliation came amid speculation of the so-called secret [11:38] deal. [11:39] You have heard of that, of course. [11:41] Of course. [11:42] Secret deal between Pranabacharat and Puerh Thai Party, right? [11:46] So is there any ground to that speculation at all? [11:51] I don't have, frankly. [11:53] I don't have the information. [11:56] But I do know that it is pretty usual that people talk about this. [12:03] People talk in politics, you know, among parties and so on, at different levels. [12:09] So it shouldn't be surprising that Khun Praveen has had the opportunity to talk with different [12:16] parties, be it Puerh Thai, more recently, you know, he's probably on the news, Phumjai Thai [12:24] meeting, and so on, and other parties. [12:26] Nothing unusual about that, right? [12:28] I don't think so. [12:29] I don't think so. [12:31] It happens. [12:32] Yeah. [12:33] So leaders of other parties, I think they have met and continue to meet among themselves [12:38] as well, or communicate in one way or the other. [12:41] You're talking with parties. [12:43] It should be something usual before any election, right? [12:47] But Puerh Thai, I mean, this certainly raises a lot of questions among many people who still [12:54] remember the reason cited by the coup makers eight years back, right? [12:58] That the Thaksin regime thing was one of the reasons cited for the coup. [13:03] Right. [13:04] For all those unrest that happened back then. [13:08] So Khun Praveen would have no problem working with Puerh Thai, knowing the fact that Khun [13:13] Thaksin still pulled the strings from behind the party, right? [13:16] Well, let's put it this way. [13:18] The stance of Phalang Pacharat Party, which is also reflected by Khun Praveen in his communication, [13:28] is that, look, today, let's work together. [13:32] Whatever party that is eligible to come into the election, let them have their chances. [13:43] And the people will be the ones who decide. [13:46] Once it comes time to form a government, the next government, which we all know will be [13:52] a coalition government, who should be there, and so on. [13:58] So that's the stance that we take. [14:01] Now, actions that took place in the past. [14:07] Those are things that are in the past. [14:14] Some of them still are in the process of different kinds of undertakings. [14:23] So let that be. [14:25] But today, we're talking about the future of the country. [14:30] So what we're saying at Phalang Pacharat is that let's not waste the opportunity. [14:39] Let's talk. [14:40] And see, by the time of the election, what people, the Thai people, would decide. [14:51] All right. [14:52] So let's move to the Phalang Pacharat policy in this current election. [14:57] You are certainly a very important person. [15:00] I don't know about that. [15:02] Because you are responsible for coming up with the policies of the party, right? [15:08] So if anything goes wrong, the brave will come to you, right? [15:12] Not quite. [15:13] Not quite. [15:14] Let me just quickly say that we work together. [15:19] And we have many capable people at the headquarters, academics, and so on. [15:29] And also people all over the place in Thailand. [15:33] And we all work together. [15:35] We have inputs from different places. [15:37] And also from outside, from all sectors of the society. [15:42] And then we sort of try to come up with a party policy platform. [15:50] And then individual policy and so on. [15:53] And present that to the public. [15:56] So what specific policies that distinguish Phalang Pacharat from other parties? [16:02] I think every party probably, to be fair to say, looks in the same direction. [16:11] Because we all are in the same situation with regard to the country, Thailand. [16:17] Economy and so on. [16:20] But what we are offering at Phalang Pacharat is this. [16:24] First of all, let's get the country moving again. [16:28] Let's get the country moving again. [16:30] Economic challenges must be overcome quickly. [16:34] Hardship must be addressed comprehensively. [16:38] But that's not enough. [16:39] At the same time, [16:41] let's work together to put down a solid fundamental and platform [16:48] to move the country forward, [16:50] to grow the country in a sustainable manner. [16:55] And in a manner that covers all ties. [17:03] And that's what we are offering to things. [17:08] Be realistic. [17:09] What we're facing today, let's get that done. [17:12] But at the same time, move with haste. [17:15] Get the fundamentals down. [17:19] Now, I think it's probably fair to say that today, Thailand is facing a big challenge. [17:28] Relative to our peers, even in ASEAN. [17:31] And we need to get our act together. [17:34] And that's what Phalang Pacharat is saying. [17:36] Deal with the present. [17:38] At the same time, move forward quickly. [17:41] It's very interesting to hear Khun Plavit say that he is ready to consider. [17:48] Incorporating the policies of other potential coalition partners. [17:53] Is it serious? [17:54] It is serious. [17:55] It is serious. [17:56] And I personally agree with that. [18:02] I agree with that idea. [18:03] Because if we believe that today, [18:05] we have to marshal all the resources that we have, [18:09] all the brain power, [18:11] then let's not limit that only to what we have in Phalang Pacharat. [18:17] Let's open up. [18:18] Let's not, you know, what is being offered from other people. [18:24] So, you know, we're open. [18:26] Sort of almost like an open platform idea. [18:29] In receiving and in exchanging, you know, policy thinking and so on. [18:37] So, we're being serious about that. [18:39] We welcome that. [18:40] I think most people know Khun Plavit from what they see in the media. [18:45] You have been up close with him for quite some time. [18:48] So, what kind of leader would he be like? [18:52] I think he would be a kind of leader that is appropriate [19:00] for the situation where Thailand finds itself in today. [19:07] He has, as we discussed before, the experience. [19:11] He has the ability to reconcile. [19:15] He has the patience. [19:18] And he is decisive. [19:21] You know. [19:22] I know. [19:23] Most people do not know that. [19:25] Exactly. [19:26] Because, again, because the role that he played up to this point [19:31] probably didn't allow that to show too much. [19:34] But, you know, from my own personal experience with him, [19:38] he has the decisiveness that is required today and going forward. [19:46] Okay. [19:47] Your party has been hit by the strings of defections [19:51] of veterans and MPs. [19:53] Right? [19:54] And have you seen the end of this kind of defections yet, [19:59] especially after the so-called summit group left the party just recently? [20:04] Right. [20:05] Well, first of all, as we all know, the comings and goings [20:09] of the potential MPs, you know, candidates that will contest [20:15] in the next general election, I think that's pretty normal. [20:19] And usually the process will accelerate. [20:23] As the election is more clear with respect to the date. [20:30] So that's what we have been saying. [20:32] You know, Phalang Pacharat as well. [20:35] We have had people leaving us. [20:37] But we also have had people coming in. [20:40] As far as timing is concerned, I think we probably have seen [20:44] pretty much the end, towards the end of these movements. [20:51] Yeah. [20:52] That's it. [20:53] And I think it's important to listen to what the members [20:56] of the so-called summit groups have said. [20:59] Khun Som Sak in particular. [21:02] I mean, he gives the impression that being with Phalang Pacharat [21:06] stand very little chance of being back in power. [21:09] So you'd rather go to a party that stands a better chance. [21:12] So how do you see this kind of reasoning? [21:16] I think, again, we shouldn't be surprised. [21:21] You can have a myriad of opinions and thoughts in politics. [21:29] Right. [21:30] And which would also, I would imagine, [21:33] be influenced by personal goals of politicians and so on. [21:38] So Khun Som Sak, as well as others, have, you know, [21:43] their views, various and could be different views. [21:49] And that is why we have movements. [21:51] People coming in and going out. [21:53] You know, at the end, by the election day, [21:56] now we will see how things turn out. [22:00] But things have become more stabilized now in the party? [22:03] Yes. [22:04] No signs that there will be another round of defection, right? [22:07] No, no, no. [22:09] I don't believe so. [22:12] I think it's pretty stable. [22:15] Now, looking ahead, what do you think should be [22:17] the best case scenario for the country? [22:20] The result of the election and what happens after the election? [22:23] The result is known. [22:27] For the country? [22:28] Yeah, for the country. [22:29] Not for any particular party. [22:30] Not for any particular party. [22:31] For the country. [22:32] Well, what Pak Phalang Pacharat Party would like to see is that [22:40] the country can move forward immediately. [22:44] And as I mentioned before, [22:48] our policy has been designed to drive that process. [22:54] Now, with the economy, as we all know, [22:58] all of a sudden, the uncertainties, [23:01] the risks have been kind of increasing. [23:05] What happens in the U.S. banking, [23:09] the global economy, the geopolitics, [23:12] tensions and so on. [23:14] So, the best case scenario would be that Thailand [23:18] is in the position to deal with those successfully. [23:25] Thailand is able to manage and overcome existing obstacles. [23:31] For example, [23:33] the domestic economy. [23:37] COVID has sort of, you know, [23:41] been calmed down a little bit. [23:44] But then the impacts are still with us, right? [23:48] Especially for the small people and so on, [23:51] business people and even the general public. [23:54] So, the best case would be that [23:56] we are able to deal with the problems, [24:01] the suffering that people have, [24:03] get them, you know, [24:07] to get them over the stage [24:09] that we are in. [24:12] And then the country can move forward, [24:15] can move forward again. [24:18] Move forward meaning what? [24:20] Meaning getting the economy [24:23] to become vibrant, dynamic again. [24:26] Be in a solid fiscal position [24:31] to support all the new initiatives [24:36] so that the Thai economy can have [24:39] sort of a new and more rigorous [24:48] sort of power base [24:51] that would lead to growth, [24:55] that is more equitable, [24:57] that is more sustainable for Thai economy. [25:00] And importantly, [25:02] not putting us in any risk [25:06] of falling behind others. [25:09] But first thing, [25:10] the politicians will need to get their act together [25:13] and know where the priority lies, right? [25:16] Yes, yes. [25:17] That's a real challenge, so to speak. [25:20] But how... [25:21] Are you optimistic that [25:25] after the election, [25:26] things will become calmer [25:28] and the differences will be reconciled? [25:31] Because it's still... [25:32] If you're looking at all this rhetoric, [25:35] the pre-election rhetoric, [25:37] it still looks like every party [25:39] still wants to win at all costs. [25:42] Well, for sure, people want to win. [25:47] Including ourselves, we want to win. [25:49] Because that's the first thing, right? [25:51] When you get into a general election. [25:54] But I think people, politicians, [25:57] realize also, hopefully, [26:00] that today people have great expectation [26:07] on politicians, [26:10] on political parties [26:12] with the upcoming election. [26:17] For example, people want change. [26:19] People want change. [26:20] People want better lives, [26:22] better living, [26:26] more opportunities, and so on. [26:28] So the next government, [26:30] that will come in, [26:32] if politicians realize [26:36] that this is the people's will, [26:39] then hopefully, in a coalition party, [26:43] they can work together [26:46] in such a way that [26:48] they can meet the people's expectation. [26:52] Or else, [26:54] then I think the next government [26:57] would face tremendous challenge [27:00] in gaining people's confidence [27:03] and therefore the stability. [27:05] And that would not bode very well [27:08] for the country's best case, [27:10] as you rightly pointed out. [27:14] It has to start with politics. [27:16] It has to start with a government [27:19] that will be able to, you know, [27:23] gather, assemble people resources [27:29] to gain confidence from the public [27:32] and move forward. [27:34] Okay, thank you very much. [27:35] And all the best to you and your party. [27:37] Thank you.