State Fires Back At Accused Killer During Tense Cross-Examination

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: you weren't trying to convince her to trust you no ma'am [00:00:08] Speaker 2: why make that up that was something we were regularly told to do say that we would be in different places and then if there was a concern it would be somewhere that we weren't see Jim [00:00:21] Speaker 1: told you what to say in each of your text messages to Samantha not in each but it was something he [00:00:26] Speaker 2: would generally say you know tell people that you're going to be traveling for the next two weeks and then if there was a concern it would be somewhere else after you found out that Mindy [00:00:49] Speaker 1: had passed you testified to this jury you never got a single document of any sort from the doctor correct that is correct you just told this jury that you were a jag officer correct for 10 years I was you checked every detail right yes verified everything right yes ma'am you didn't get a single document at any point in any of the time after her death no ma'am I did not death certificates 1.68 they're registered with the state of Georgia you're aware of that right I am you never got a single copy of a document from a courthouse no ma'am I asked about it once and I should have followed up I should have followed up but I did not you yourself as an attorney never got a single document no ma'am I didn't have a I didn't have any reason to have a document and so I failed to follow up on it you were on trial for murder correct I was I was not in anticipation of today in your testimony you knew you were on trial for murder correct yes ma'am and you didn't bring a single court document with you well ma'am I believe the testimony is fairly clear that I knew you were on trial for murder correct yes ma'am and you didn't bring a single court document with you well ma'am I believe [00:02:01] Speaker 2: I believe the testimony is fairly clear that I was lied to about Mindy's death and that I did not have a document because there were no documents. [00:02:10] Speaker 1: You worked for APIS Security, correct? [00:02:12] Speaker 2: I believe so, ma'am. [00:02:13] Speaker 1: No W-2, right? [00:02:15] Speaker 2: At some point I saw a W-2, but... [00:02:18] Speaker 1: But you didn't bring one? [00:02:21] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I believe there was one in Discovery, but I don't recall. [00:02:24] Speaker 1: You do? You believe there was one in Discovery? [00:02:27] Speaker 2: I believe so, ma'am. [00:02:28] Speaker 1: Can you tell us what document that was? [00:02:30] Speaker 2: I can't recall. I believe it was a tax document. [00:02:34] Speaker 1: Was there a W-4? [00:02:36] Speaker 2: I don't recall. I'm not sure what a W-4 is, ma'am. [00:02:39] Speaker 1: An I-9? [00:02:40] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:02:41] Speaker 1: No tax documents? [00:02:42] Speaker 2: No. I-9s are for immigration, you know, proving that you're a citizen, so... [00:02:47] Speaker 1: What about tax records? You got paid, right? [00:02:51] Speaker 2: It was paid into a trust, ma'am. [00:02:53] Speaker 1: So you have zero records reflecting being paid by APIS Security, correct? [00:02:57] Speaker 2: Well, I have the records that you provided to me during Discovery, but... [00:03:01] Speaker 1: 1.84. You provided Samantha with an employment verification, correct? [00:03:07] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:08] Speaker 1: You indicated you worked for them February 12th, 2018, to present. That was January 12th of 2023, correct? [00:03:19] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:22] Speaker 1: You never got a single paycheck? [00:03:25] Speaker 2: Not paid to me, no. [00:03:27] Speaker 1: So for five years, you worked for a company and got zero money handed to you? [00:03:36] Speaker 2: Handed to me, yes, ma'am. [00:03:44] Speaker 1: You opened a bank account, correct? [00:03:47] Speaker 2: I've opened... Can you be more specific, ma'am? [00:03:50] Speaker 1: You opened Renaissance Bank Account, correct? [00:03:53] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:03:53] Speaker 1: That was the account we saw the records for, ending in 141, right? [00:03:57] Speaker 2: I don't know the number, but I believe so. [00:03:59] Speaker 1: You signed it, correct? [00:04:01] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:02] Speaker 1: You went into the bank, right? [00:04:03] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:04:04] Speaker 1: So that's not your physical signature on there? [00:04:07] Speaker 2: It is my physical signature. I believe it was scanned and emailed. [00:04:10] Speaker 1: It's your testimony you opened a bank account without going into the bank? [00:04:14] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:14] Speaker 1: You provided Samantha with a driver's license, right? [00:04:37] Speaker 2: With a photograph of one, yes. [00:04:39] Speaker 1: 1.86. This is the license you sent her, correct? [00:04:47] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:48] Speaker 1: I'm showing the jury 1.111, which is the same photograph, correct? [00:04:53] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:04:54] Speaker 1: Okay. You're aware that there are no records in the state of Georgia reflecting a change of name to Stark? [00:05:03] Speaker 2: I'm aware of that now, ma'am. [00:05:06] Speaker 1: Well, you would have had to change your driver's license, right, sir? [00:05:09] Speaker 2: Yes, I assume so. [00:05:21] Speaker 1: Delaware. This was issued January 13, 2023, 1.112. That's you, right? [00:05:35] Speaker 2: Yes, it is, ma'am. [00:05:36] Speaker 1: Is that a current picture of you? [00:05:39] Speaker 2: That was current at the time, ma'am. [00:05:47] Speaker 1: Publishing to the jury. Is your testimony that you got one under the name Pesotis because of a glitch at the DMV? [00:05:59] Speaker 2: It wasn't a glitch, ma'am. [00:06:00] Speaker 1: Well, you testified that the Social Security Administration told you it would update in 24 hours your name change, right? [00:06:07] Speaker 2: They said likely 24 hours, so there was a chance it would be sooner. [00:06:11] Speaker 1: So sooner still, right? [00:06:14] Speaker 2: I hoped it would be sooner. That's why I went back to the DMV that afternoon. [00:06:17] Speaker 1: Right. But in 1.106, you went on January 4th to change your name, correct? [00:06:23] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:06:24] Speaker 1: So it's your testimony that from January 4th of 2023, some nine days later, it still hadn't updated? [00:06:33] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. So there's a difference between the court document, which you go to court to get, and then the Social Security Office, which you have to go in there and bring a copy of the court document to start that updating process. [00:06:44] Speaker 1: Right. But you said you went the same day as you went to the Missouri... [00:06:47] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I said I went to the Social Security Office in Delaware after I returned to the Delaware area from St. Louis. [00:06:57] Speaker 1: You submitted driver's licenses for Delaware, Pennsylvania, and a name change in Missouri all within a week, approximately? [00:07:09] Speaker 2: I was trying to update my driver's license, yes. [00:07:11] Speaker 1: In three different states? [00:07:13] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I had gotten the name change in Missouri, which had been our plan from the beginning. I was splitting my time between Delaware and Pennsylvania at the time, and I had gotten one license in Delaware that was not the correct name. I was going to be spending part of the next week in Pennsylvania, so the next business day, it was a holiday weekend, it was Martin Luther King Jr. Day. I went on that Tuesday to a DMV in Pennsylvania, and I got a license with what is now my legal name. [00:07:44] Speaker 1: You remember it was a Tuesday, correct? [00:07:47] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:07:47] Speaker 1: But you don't know your wife's doctor's name. [00:07:50] Speaker 2: I was never given her doctor's name. [00:07:53] Speaker 1: You didn't ask? [00:07:54] Speaker 2: Ma'am, she wanted... [00:07:55] Speaker 1: I asked you a question, sir. [00:07:57] Speaker 2: No. Did you ask? I did not ask. [00:07:59] Speaker 1: She was eight months pregnant, you said, correct? [00:08:02] Speaker 2: Correct. [00:08:03] Speaker 1: You never visited her at the hospital? [00:08:06] Speaker 2: Yeah, I was told not to. [00:08:08] Speaker 1: And you listened? [00:08:10] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:11] Speaker 1: First child, right? [00:08:12] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:13] Speaker 1: Desperately wanted kids? [00:08:14] Speaker 2: I wouldn't say desperately wanted kids, but I wanted kids. [00:08:16] Speaker 1: You've been trying since Heather, right? [00:08:19] Speaker 2: Yes. How many years was that? You know, Mindy and I didn't start trying to have kids immediately, but... [00:08:25] Speaker 1: Well, you testified there was a miscarriage in the middle, correct? [00:08:27] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. That miscarriage was in, gosh, July of 2021. [00:08:33] Speaker 1: So for years, you had been trying to get pregnant? [00:08:36] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:08:36] Speaker 1: And your wife was finally eight months pregnant and terribly ill, correct? [00:08:41] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I believe so. [00:08:42] Speaker 1: And you never went to see her? [00:08:44] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I was talking to her and checking on her, but I did not physically go there because I did not think it was safe to. [00:08:49] Speaker 1: Well, just in your testimony earlier, you said texting, not talking. [00:08:53] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I use them interchangeably. I'll be more clear. [00:08:56] Speaker 1: You never spoke to her? No, ma'am. [00:08:58] Speaker 2: I tried to multiple times, but we couldn't get a good enough signal to have a conversation. [00:09:03] Speaker 1: And when you couldn't get her, you didn't go see her? [00:09:06] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:09:10] Speaker 1: You're an attorney at the time of all of this, correct? [00:09:14] Speaker 2: I don't believe I was at that time. No, ma'am. [00:09:17] Speaker 1: You don't forget how to be a lawyer, do you? [00:09:19] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I hope not. [00:09:20] Speaker 1: Right? So, when you filled out this paperwork for the Missouri change of name, you indicated that you did not owe anybody any judgments. [00:09:34] Speaker 2: That was my understanding, yes, ma'am. [00:09:35] Speaker 1: That there were no cases requesting money pending against you, correct? [00:09:39] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:42] Speaker 1: Yeah, you stood in a court of law in front of a judge who told you when to be back to settle what was owed to Ms. Thomas, correct? [00:09:51] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:09:52] Speaker 1: And you didn't go? [00:09:53] Speaker 2: I didn't go because I believed that that was already settled. [00:09:57] Speaker 1: You were an attorney at the time, right? [00:10:00] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. At that time, I absolutely was. [00:10:02] Speaker 1: You know, if you don't show up to court, what happens? [00:10:07] Speaker 2: They would, if I still had a hearing there, if I had not paid that money, I would have been held in contempt. [00:10:12] Speaker 1: You called Heather to confirm she got paid? [00:10:14] Speaker 2: I did not, ma'am. And nor did she call me, nor did she come to the house that we had shared that I continued living in for nine months afterwards. [00:10:22] Speaker 1: You have been exchanging a series of emails back and forth with Heather for days leading up to that court hearing, correct? [00:10:30] Speaker 2: I don't believe I had, no, ma'am. [00:10:33] Speaker 1: It's your testimony you didn't? [00:10:35] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:10:40] Speaker 1: Ms. Thomas was following you repeatedly to the point that you thought that she was actually potentially one of the people causing you trouble. [00:10:49] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:10:50] Speaker 1: But you think she just evaporated? [00:10:52] Speaker 2: Because I believed she had gotten the money that she wanted. [00:10:56] Speaker 1: Then tell us why she would be a danger to you. [00:10:59] Speaker 2: At that point, I no longer believed that she was a danger to me. [00:11:02] Speaker 1: When was that? [00:11:03] Speaker 2: That was shortly around the time that I believed the payment had been made to her, and she stopped contacting me altogether. Never came by the house, never called my phone. [00:11:15] Speaker 1: But you just told this jury that Jim McIntyre was looking into it for you. [00:11:19] Speaker 2: He was, and he said that he had determined that Heather was not involved and that he had wired the funds. [00:11:27] Speaker 1: Let's talk about your marriage license. The application, 1.92. [00:11:31] Speaker 2: Absolutely. [00:11:33] Speaker 1: You listed people that are not your parents, correct? [00:11:35] Speaker 2: At the time, I believed them to be my parents. [00:11:38] Speaker 1: They're sitting in this courtroom now, right? [00:11:41] Speaker 2: Yes, my parents are. [00:11:42] Speaker 1: You don't disbelieve that Linda and Wayne Kasotis are your parents? [00:11:47] Speaker 2: Not anymore, no, ma'am. [00:11:50] Speaker 1: And with all due respect to your father sitting here, that's the man you moved 100 plus times because you were afraid of? [00:11:58] Speaker 2: I wouldn't say 100 plus times, but yes, ma'am. We moved probably 50 times because I was terrified. [00:12:03] Speaker 1: Well, the two times that you just talked in direct testimony, you said 15 to 25 times twice and then moved countless other times, correct? [00:12:14] Speaker 2: I wouldn't say countless other times, ma'am. [00:12:16] Speaker 1: Well, your recollection was every time you moved a week, right? You could tell this jury when you were in each different place, correct? [00:12:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I have a, uh, because we move so often, it's actually pretty easy for me mentally to remember where we were when because oftentimes we were only in a place for two days. So if you remember the 4th of July happened while you were in that house, you know where you, you know when you were there. [00:12:42] Speaker 1: But you don't remember your wife's doctor? [00:12:46] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:12:48] Speaker 1: Let's just be clear, 2.32, this is Mindy, right? [00:12:54] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:12:58] Speaker 1: During your interview with law enforcement, you didn't even ask what happened to her. [00:13:07] Speaker 2: I did ask, ma'am. During the first interview, I asked what happened to Mindy, and Mr. Sands told me that at this time, he did not believe that the, that I presume you, the district attorney, he wanted to make that information public. [00:13:19] Speaker 1: You didn't ask about your baby either, did you? [00:13:23] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:13:24] Speaker 1: Not once in two hours and 10 minutes, correct? [00:13:29] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:13:30] Speaker 1: And not once in almost two hours in Liberty County, correct? [00:13:34] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, in Liberty County, as, as you all saw, was the time I was told that Mindy had not been pregnant when she died. [00:13:40] Speaker 1: Until they told you, you didn't ask about the baby either, right? [00:13:44] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:13:55] Speaker 1: You told your in-laws that your wife died December 1st of 2022, correct? [00:14:02] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Immediately after I was told, I went back to the house and told them. [00:14:07] Speaker 1: And then the next day you went and got your car washed, or was that the same day? I'm showing 1.110. [00:14:13] Speaker 2: I don't recall what day that was, ma'am. [00:14:14] Speaker 1: Well, that is your car, right? [00:14:16] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:14:18] Speaker 1: So after you found out your wife was dead, you went to the car wash. Is that right? [00:14:25] Speaker 2: Apparently, ma'am. [00:14:27] Speaker 1: Well, that is your bank record, right? [00:14:29] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Yeah, at some point I went and got my car washed. I don't, I don't recall getting my car washed, but I may have. It appears I did. [00:14:40] Speaker 1: And you went and picked up some beer, right? [00:14:44] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I was drinking probably a scary amount at this point. [00:14:58] Speaker 1: During your direct examination, I didn't hear any reference to 2.44 or 2.43, the rug, correct? [00:15:05] Speaker 2: Correct, ma'am. [00:15:07] Speaker 1: You don't dispute that this rug is the one you left the house with, 2.44? [00:15:13] Speaker 2: No, ma'am, that looks right. [00:15:15] Speaker 1: And 2.43 is what was there when you got there? [00:15:18] Speaker 2: I believe so, ma'am. [00:15:20] Speaker 1: And you replaced these because you said Rusty threw up on it? [00:15:24] Speaker 2: Yes, he always had kind of a stomach that was sensitive to eating too much, and he was known to beg for food. So sometimes Betsy and Frank would overeat him, and he would get sick. [00:15:36] Speaker 1: You didn't just clean the rug? [00:15:38] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. Mindy had put it in a plastic bag and stuck it out back because it smelled, and by the time I had time to try to clean it, two days had passed, and the entire thing smelled absolutely awful. [00:15:49] Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with the blood that was underneath the rug, right? [00:15:52] Speaker 2: There was no blood underneath the rug. [00:15:54] Speaker 1: Well, you saw the photographs here, correct? [00:15:56] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:15:57] Speaker 1: Is it your testimony that law enforcement somehow put Blue Star on the floor of that house? [00:16:04] Speaker 2: Ma'am, I have no idea what blood that is or when it was there, and unfortunately, law enforcement never tested that. [00:16:12] Speaker 1: Right. And so the blood on the futon that was Mindy's? [00:16:21] Speaker 2: I have no idea how that blood got there, ma'am. [00:16:25] Speaker 1: Okay. [00:16:26] Speaker 2: I didn't spend a lot of time in that room, so. [00:16:30] Speaker 1: You lived in the house, right? [00:16:32] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:16:34] Speaker 1: It was also your testimony that initially Jim was an FBI agent, right? [00:16:40] Speaker 2: I believed he was for, gosh, two years, over two years. [00:16:44] Speaker 1: And at some point you determined that he was not, correct? You didn't move after you figured that out, right? [00:16:51] Speaker 2: No, as I testified, we had a big argument about whether or not we should, you know, stop dealing with him altogether. [00:17:01] Speaker 1: You also didn't move after your father and uncle showed up at your house, right? That is correct. You were moving hundreds, or at least, my apologies, at least 50 times, correct? [00:17:14] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Yes, at least 50 times, definitely. [00:17:16] Speaker 1: Over seven years, correct? [00:17:19] Speaker 2: How long was it? I had five years. [00:17:21] Speaker 1: Five years. So over five years, you kept moving because that man was your threat. [00:17:28] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:17:28] Speaker 1: And when he showed up at your door with your uncle, correct? [00:17:32] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:17:34] Speaker 1: You didn't move? [00:17:35] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I asked to. [00:17:38] Speaker 1: So at this point, you actually knew he knew where you were? [00:17:42] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:17:44] Speaker 1: You ran out the back? [00:17:46] Speaker 2: After I talked to Jim, yes. I departed via the back of the house. [00:17:50] Speaker 1: Right. You said you called Jim, didn't you? [00:17:53] Speaker 2: Yes, on signal. But you can make voice calls or I believe even video calls now through signal. [00:17:59] Speaker 1: But yet when law enforcement spoke to you the first time in Pennsylvania, you said he just showed up. Right? [00:18:08] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:18:09] Speaker 1: Law enforcement specifically asked you, how did Jim know where to find you? And you said he just showed up. [00:18:15] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I said it didn't take him long to get there, which I thought clearly indicated that I had contacted him. But apparently there was some confusion on Mr. Sands' part. He then later said that I was clearly asked that twice. And I've listened to that interview about 40 times. And I've never heard it asked even once, clearly. [00:18:37] Speaker 1: You've had access to all this material, correct? Yes, ma'am. You knew what the state's case was, correct? Yes, ma'am. No documents here with you today? [00:18:46] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:18:52] Speaker 1: You indicated at some point that it was very important for you to figure out who of Mindy's friends would need to know, correct? [00:19:04] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:19:05] Speaker 1: And you reached out to each of them, correct? [00:19:07] Speaker 2: I did. [00:19:09] Speaker 1: It's your testimony? You had no idea that Mr. Frank and Mrs. Betsy thought you were dead? [00:19:17] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I did not. [00:19:18] Speaker 1: So I'm showing you 1.87 and 1.88. We'll take a look at them. You've seen them before, right? [00:19:32] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I saw them when they were provided in discovery. [00:19:46] Speaker 1: Did you see the email address on that? [00:19:49] Speaker 2: I do, ma'am. Yes. [00:19:50] Speaker 1: That's APIS Limited, correct? [00:19:52] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:19:53] Speaker 1: That would be the same address that you claimed was Jim McIntyre, correct? [00:19:57] Speaker 2: He, I believe he had an APIS, but I'm not sure that I ever, I did not regularly email with him personally. So I believe I, at some point I saw an APIS Limited address for him as he was reaching out to, to Frank and Betsy, but. [00:20:12] Speaker 1: Well, you just told the jury you worked for APIS Limited, right? [00:20:15] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I believe so. [00:20:17] Speaker 1: You got that employment verification from Marcus Jones at APIS Limited, right? [00:20:21] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:20:22] Speaker 1: And you believed you were working for Jim McIntyre, right? [00:20:25] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:20:25] Speaker 1: That he was preserving all of your funds in a trust, right? Yes, ma'am. Did you bring the trust documents here? [00:20:31] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:20:31] Speaker 1: In order to start a trust, Mr. Kosotis, as an attorney, you know that there are actual documents you need to sign, right? [00:20:39] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:20:40] Speaker 1: You never preserved any of those? [00:20:42] Speaker 2: At some point, I lost them. I don't know exactly when. But I had them, and I provided them to Ms. Thomas on at least one occasion. [00:20:56] Speaker 1: Actually, when you went to court, you didn't provide the court with anything, did you? [00:21:01] Speaker 2: I don't believe I was asked to. [00:21:03] Speaker 1: That would be a no? [00:21:05] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. That would be a no. [00:21:07] Speaker 1: But you told the court you had $32 million? [00:21:10] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:21:14] Speaker 1: Did you ever ask Jim to show you a copy of the check that he sent to Heather or the wire to pay her off? [00:21:20] Speaker 2: Absolutely. I saw bank records showing a wire transaction to her. [00:21:24] Speaker 1: And you saved all those? [00:21:26] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I believe I've been pretty clear about that. [00:21:29] Speaker 1: Well, Heather was all but, from your description, stalking you for the money, right? [00:21:34] Speaker 2: She was energetically looking for it. Yes, ma'am. [00:21:39] Speaker 1: Okay. So, energetically looking for it. You didn't think it was important to hold on to a copy of those? [00:21:45] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. As I said, I stayed in that house for another nine months. The house that Heather and I had shared when we were married and never heard from her. She never stopped by. She never called my phone. I assumed that that was over and done with. [00:21:58] Speaker 1: At that point, you had moved and changed your name and your driver's licenses in two additional states, correct? [00:22:05] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. This was years before that. [00:22:08] Speaker 1: Okay. Now, initially, I believe you told us that you contacted the FBI, and that's when Jim showed up, correct? [00:22:33] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:22:33] Speaker 1: And if I recall correctly, what you said was, you were very happy because normally you don't get any traction on a case like this. [00:22:43] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. That was my fear. [00:22:46] Speaker 1: But then Jim McIntyre, according to your testimony, spent the next two years acting as your basically personal assistant, social media provider, financial advisor, and Microsoft purveyor, correct? [00:23:06] Speaker 2: I'm not sure I would use all of those, but he was somebody that we were dealing with very closely throughout all of this. [00:23:13] Speaker 1: You thought that an FBI agent just decided to take you on with a case you didn't think that he was actually even going to investigate? [00:23:22] Speaker 2: I had been worried that he wouldn't investigate it. I was very happy that it was being taken so seriously. [00:23:29] Speaker 1: And it's your testimony to this jury that after 10 years in the JAG, you believed he was an FBI agent? [00:23:35] Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I've dealt with law enforcement, both the state, the local, and federal law enforcement extensively. There was nothing that concerned me at that time. [00:23:52] Speaker 1: So let me make sure I get this straight. Initially, you thought that the risk, based on your testimony, was because of the Washington Post article. [00:24:04] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:24:05] Speaker 1: Then you thought it was Wayne, correct? [00:24:07] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. Then we started looking at others. We looked at an ex-boyfriend of Mindy's, Heather, my ex-wife. Then we looked at a former boss of Angela's who had tried to assault Mindy. He was a very kind of rich and powerful man. And then... [00:24:27] Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. [00:24:29] Speaker 2: And it wasn't until after we had exhausted those leads that he started looking at our immediate families. Thank you. Thank you. [00:24:45] Speaker 1: So when Jim McIntyre, you determined, did not work for the FBI, he promptly told you how he knew to come and see you and Mindy, right? [00:25:03] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. And that is one of the things I've thought about extensively over the last 27 months as this case has gone on. But as to how he entered our life, I never followed up. And there are, frankly, a lot of mistakes I've made over the last seven years of my life that I spent a lot of time thinking about. [00:25:22] Speaker 1: He just showed up at your house and said he was the FBI. [00:25:25] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:39] Speaker 1: You heard testimony about Cameron Nelson's credit card, the Capital One card, correct? [00:25:47] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:25:48] Speaker 1: It's your testimony that all of those charges were being made by Jim McIntyre? [00:25:52] Speaker 2: The majority of them, not all of them. [00:25:54] Speaker 1: The Uber Eats purchases that came to the house in Savannah, those were done by Jim McIntyre? [00:26:00] Speaker 2: We were never in Savannah while we were using, well, anything was being charged to Cameron's card. [00:26:05] Speaker 1: Are you sure? [00:26:06] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:26:08] Speaker 1: Okay. And all of those transactions, the Uber car rentals, were those Jim McIntyre, too? [00:26:16] Speaker 2: The Uber car rentals? [00:26:18] Speaker 1: Yeah, Uber. [00:26:19] Speaker 2: I don't know anything about those, ma'am. [00:26:22] Speaker 1: You never took an Uber on a credit card? [00:26:25] Speaker 2: I have taken Ubers before. I have never, during this time, I never took an Uber, no. [00:26:31] Speaker 1: So if the bank records show you taking Ubers and going places, that wasn't you? [00:26:37] Speaker 2: That was not me, correct. [00:26:38] Speaker 1: Okay. You have an Uber app on your phone, correct? [00:26:45] Speaker 2: I do now, yes. [00:26:46] Speaker 1: So it's your testimony you never had an Uber app on your phone in 2022? [00:26:51] Speaker 2: In 2022, I did. I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Ms. Nelson's credit card. Are we talking about my bank records or Ms. Nelson's? I'm just not clear. [00:26:59] Speaker 1: I'm talking about your bank records. [00:27:01] Speaker 2: Oh, okay, yes. My bank records, yes. There were times I took an Uber. [00:27:06] Speaker 1: But you told this jury you were afraid to leave the house, right? [00:27:10] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Every time I went out, it was scary. [00:27:13] Speaker 1: But you fought through the fear and jumped in an Uber? [00:27:18] Speaker 2: If I had things that needed to be done, then yes. I thought it was my job to take care of those things. [00:27:25] Speaker 1: You didn't call Jim and say, hey, Jim, I need a ride. Get me to this location. You're my security detail? [00:27:32] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I mean, sometimes he would drive me places, but for regular errands, no. That was something that I dealt with. Either I had Mr. Frank Mebin drive me or I would call an Uber. [00:27:44] Speaker 1: Right, because on November 29th, you clearly went to Home Depot by yourself, right? [00:27:49] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. At that point, I had a car, so I was not taking Ubers anywhere. [00:27:59] Speaker 1: And it's your testimony to this jury that you never paid Jim McIntyre one penny for how many years of service to you? [00:28:10] Speaker 2: I believed that we were both benefiting from this. [00:28:13] Speaker 1: That's not what I asked you. I asked you if you paid him. [00:28:16] Speaker 2: No, I did not. [00:28:17] Speaker 1: So in all of the years that he worked with you, you never paid him? [00:28:22] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:28:27] Speaker 1: And it was your testimony you met Frank first, or rather, you met Jim first in Virginia, correct? [00:28:33] Speaker 2: Yes, Alexandria, Virginia. [00:28:34] Speaker 1: And then he followed you to what state next? [00:28:37] Speaker 2: We saw him multiple times in Virginia. Then later we saw him in South Carolina and in Georgia. [00:28:43] Speaker 1: And then you said you didn't see him much? [00:28:47] Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe I only saw him once, maybe twice when I was in Delaware. [00:28:50] Speaker 1: Okay. It was your testimony to law enforcement, or your statement, I should say, to be clear, that Jim McIntyre handled your finances the entire time. [00:29:19] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:29:21] Speaker 1: That included setting up all of your Airbnbs, correct? [00:29:25] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:29:26] Speaker 1: Except the one in Savannah, because you bought that one, right? [00:29:28] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. And there were two at the very beginning, one in Alexandria and one in Charlottesville that I set up personally. [00:29:36] Speaker 1: Well, and don't forget the one in Hilton Head that you got for Frank and Betsy afterwards in your name, too, right? [00:29:41] Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't an Airbnb, but correct. I did set up that rental. [00:29:44] Speaker 1: In the name Kasotis, right? [00:29:45] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:29:46] Speaker 1: While you were still afraid that people were coming after you. And your wife now was already dead. [00:29:51] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:29:52] Speaker 1: And you're still using your name Kasotis. [00:29:54] Speaker 2: That was my legal name at the time. Yes, ma'am. [00:30:06] Speaker 1: And you said when you got the $300,000 from Sony, you didn't pay Cameron, right? [00:30:16] Speaker 2: Correct, ma'am. [00:30:16] Speaker 1: You didn't pay Heather, right? You thought that was paid. [00:30:19] Speaker 2: I thought that was paid, ma'am. [00:30:20] Speaker 1: Right. At that point, that money was the money you and Mindy were living on, right? [00:30:29] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:30:31] Speaker 1: Jim McIntyre didn't control that money, correct? [00:30:34] Speaker 2: No, he did not. He said he was monitoring it and taking actions to prevent it, but he did not control that money. [00:30:40] Speaker 1: So you did have $300,000 to your disposal, at least on June of 2022. [00:30:45] Speaker 2: Absolutely. That was a non-negotiable point for us, was that we get to control our own money. [00:30:55] Speaker 1: Now, you talked about mosquitoes, right? [00:30:57] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:30:58] Speaker 1: When you had problems with mosquitoes, that was when you first moved in, right? [00:31:02] Speaker 2: It had started when we first moved in, but it got worse in, I want to say, mid-August. [00:31:08] Speaker 1: Can you tell the jury how expensive the Airbnb was? How much did that cost? [00:31:13] Speaker 2: I think it cost about $4,500 a month, but I could be mistaken. [00:31:18] Speaker 1: You called the owner, right, to get her to fix the mosquito problem? [00:31:22] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:31:23] Speaker 1: You decided to fix that yourself? [00:31:25] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. This was a rule that we had had for several years. [00:31:29] Speaker 1: At $4,500 a month, you took on handyman jobs? [00:31:33] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:31:37] Speaker 1: It was also your testimony that Mr. Frank and Mrs. Betsy left the residence the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, correct? [00:31:46] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:47] Speaker 1: And they returned on that Sunday? [00:31:49] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. That is the best of my recollection, but I'm pretty certain about it. [00:31:53] Speaker 1: Well, you testified under oath to that, right? [00:31:54] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:55] Speaker 1: So if you weren't sure, you would have told us that, right? [00:31:57] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:31:59] Speaker 1: There's also your testimony that your wife went into the hospital on Saturday, that weekend, correct? [00:32:03] Speaker 2: I believe it was Saturday. There's a slight chance it could have been Friday, but I've thought about this a lot. I'm relatively certain it was Saturday. [00:32:11] Speaker 1: Well, you just, again, testified under oath. Yes, ma'am. It was Saturday. [00:32:14] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:32:15] Speaker 1: You didn't give us an equivocation earlier, did you? [00:32:17] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I did not. [00:32:18] Speaker 1: And you said it was Saturday, correct? And you said that her parents came back on Sunday, right? Yes, ma'am. You never told them what hospital, right? [00:32:29] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I don't believe they asked either. [00:32:39] Speaker 1: And then it was your testimony that you talked to Mindy Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, correct? [00:32:47] Speaker 2: I believed I talked to Mindy. [00:32:49] Speaker 1: Okay. So that was a yes? [00:32:52] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. I am uncertain. I think I've been pretty clear that I don't know if it was Mindy or not. It was a message from Mindy's signal account. [00:33:00] Speaker 1: But you could have called her on the signal account, right? [00:33:02] Speaker 2: As I said, I tried to call her, but she didn't have a good enough signal where she was, so we couldn't hear each other. [00:33:09] Speaker 1: But you never talked to her after she went in, so how would you know that? [00:33:12] Speaker 2: As I said, I tried to call her, and when we could not verbally talk, we messaged each other via signal. [00:33:24] Speaker 1: And then you went to pick her up on December 1st, correct? [00:33:27] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:33:30] Speaker 1: You heard testimony from Dr. Mondor that on December 1st, she was already dead, right? [00:33:37] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:33:41] Speaker 1: You have no reason to disbelieve Dr. Mondor's estimation, do you? [00:33:44] Speaker 2: I do not, ma'am, no. Which is why I have said I do not think I was talking to Mindy for most of that week. [00:33:55] Speaker 1: And when you went to the birthing center and they told you that Mindy had passed, you didn't see Mindy, correct? [00:34:06] Speaker 2: Correct, ma'am. I asked you, and I was told I was not able to at that time. [00:34:10] Speaker 1: You never once referenced the baby during your direct examination when you talked to the doctor. [00:34:14] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, at this point, I've learned roughly a little over two years ago that there was no baby. [00:34:22] Speaker 1: We didn't mention it to law enforcement, either, when they first approached you. [00:34:26] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I guess I did not. I believe we talked about the pregnancy quite a bit, but not specifically the baby. [00:34:35] Speaker 1: Not on the first interview, Mr. Kisotis. You didn't. [00:34:41] Speaker 2: Relatively certain we talked quite a bit about how Mindy was pregnant and where I thought she was. Yes, ma'am. [00:34:48] Speaker 1: Okay. Now, when you went to pick up your wife's ashes, you indicated that was in Alabama? [00:35:08] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Montgomery, Alabama. [00:35:09] Speaker 1: And you gave him $5,000 cash? [00:35:11] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:35:12] Speaker 1: No paperwork? [00:35:14] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:35:15] Speaker 1: No name? [00:35:18] Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no name? [00:35:18] Speaker 1: He didn't give you his name? [00:35:20] Speaker 2: He might have, ma'am. I'm not sure. I don't remember. It was a very brief meeting. [00:35:23] Speaker 1: You received your wife's ashes on the side of the road, and you didn't get the man's name? [00:35:28] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I was pretty angry at him. [00:35:31] Speaker 1: You're an attorney at the time, right? [00:35:34] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:35:35] Speaker 1: You weren't a lawyer at that time? [00:35:36] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I was not licensed at that time. [00:35:38] Speaker 1: Well, you had put your license on hold, essentially, right? [00:35:42] Speaker 2: Yeah, I had given up my Virginia license, but Massachusetts allows you to retire your license, and then if you want to turn it back on later, you just have to pay as if you were an active lawyer for all the years in between. So I am still, to this day, a retired attorney in Massachusetts. [00:35:59] Speaker 1: You didn't forget how to be a lawyer, is my point? [00:36:01] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:36:02] Speaker 1: Okay. And receiving your wife's ashes on the side of the road in Alabama for $5,000 cash, you didn't think you needed any documents as an attorney? [00:36:10] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I was pretty angry about the entire exchange. [00:36:13] Speaker 1: That was a no, correct? [00:36:14] Speaker 2: Correct, ma'am. [00:36:22] Speaker 1: And I just want to make sure I understand, your car burst into flames in the condition we saw it in this courtroom on your way to purchase a house. [00:36:30] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:36:31] Speaker 1: And you never bought the house? [00:36:33] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. [00:36:34] Speaker 1: That's a real estate transaction, correct? [00:36:36] Speaker 2: That is a real estate transaction, yes, ma'am. [00:36:38] Speaker 1: Those require written documents, correct? [00:36:40] Speaker 2: Absolutely, ma'am. [00:36:41] Speaker 1: You lost $50,000, you said, right? [00:36:43] Speaker 2: I did, ma'am. [00:36:44] Speaker 1: You have no records of that? [00:36:46] Speaker 2: Ma'am, you have all my banking records. You can see the EMD coming right out of it. [00:36:51] Speaker 1: Right. And your testimony is you don't have a record reflecting anything concerning that transaction that day? [00:37:01] Speaker 2: Ma'am, you have all of my electronics, and that's how all these documents were. They were e-signed. [00:37:06] Speaker 1: Well, actually, withdrawn. You never bought the house, right? [00:37:16] Speaker 2: Correct, ma'am. [00:37:17] Speaker 1: Because you had a check for $860,000, I believe you said, correct? [00:37:21] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:37:22] Speaker 1: That you said burnt up, right? [00:37:25] Speaker 2: Along with parts of me, ma'am. [00:37:26] Speaker 1: And when Investigator Frost said to you, what was so important that was in the car that you opened the door? Do you recall that? [00:37:34] Speaker 2: It was my phone, ma'am. [00:37:35] Speaker 1: Not the check for $860,000. [00:37:38] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. In that moment, all I was trying to do was call for help. [00:37:44] Speaker 1: You didn't care about a check for $860,000? [00:37:46] Speaker 2: I absolutely cared about a check for $860,000. At that moment, I was trying to call for help. I did not realize that my car was about to burst into flames. [00:37:55] Speaker 1: Detective Frost had to tell you about the check, didn't he? [00:37:59] Speaker 2: No, ma'am. I remembered the check. I thought we were talking about something else. [00:38:19] Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I confirm something. The police report against your father for the name change in Missouri? [00:38:26] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:38:26] Speaker 1: That was September 30th of 2022, the incident, correct? [00:38:30] Speaker 2: I believe so, ma'am. Yes. [00:38:35] Speaker 1: When you were a victim of domestic violence, as alleged, that allows you to seal the name change, correct? [00:38:41] Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. [00:38:41] Speaker 1: If you had not had a police report reflecting the need to seal it being domestic violence, you couldn't have gotten it sealed, right? [00:38:50] Speaker 2: Well, ma'am, I thought there were many other reports at this time, but yes, I did rely on that one when I got it sealed. Yes, ma'am.