'She has really hurt herself': Rep. Dingell on Stevens' shock endorsement

[0:00] Now to the shocker out of Michigan and the most closely watched Senate race in the country, [0:05] Democratic Congresswoman Haley Stevens of Michigan, who lost the Senate primary to Abdul El-Sayed this [0:11] summer and then endorsed him, she pulled a 180 yesterday, appearing at a Detroit church with [0:17] his Republican opponent, the Republican candidate in the race, Mike Rogers. And she endorsed Mike [0:23] Rogers. I mean, standing there with him, holding a press conference, endorsed Mike Rogers. [0:27] That came after fellow Michigan Democrat. Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, considered the [0:32] dean of the Michigan Democratic House delegation, says that Stevens had assured her that she would [0:36] not endorse Mike Rogers. Here are some of what Haley Stevens then told Anderson Cooper last night. [0:42] My question, though, is what changed from the phone conversation you had with Congresswoman Debbie [0:47] Dingell and waking up refreshed in the morning? I wasn't on the phone, I think, that late, but I [0:53] know Debbie's always working around the clock. It might not have been midnight when I spoke with [0:59] her, but I was there and just, you know, alone with my thoughts. I was writing things out. And look, [1:07] this level of anger and the things that we are seeing, look, we all want Democrats to win. [1:14] Joining me now is Congresswoman Debbie Dingell for more on this. Thank you for being here. I mean, [1:20] talk about a wild weekend, a wild 24 hours in Michigan, to say the least. You wake up this [1:25] morning now, Congresswoman. What is your fresh perspective on what went down? [1:34] Well, good morning, Kate. My brain right now is focused on the election tomorrow and the issues [1:41] we should be talking about. People being worried about whether they can afford their groceries, [1:46] put gas in their car, go to the doctor. But, you know, Haley's a human being. I have been worried [1:55] about her because I know it's really hard to be in these kinds of circumstances. I talked to her [2:02] multiple times last week, so multiple times, and had a lot of discussions about a lot of things. [2:10] And I was shocked. I can't lie about that. I do think that one of the things that I do want to [2:17] talk about that's impacting everything right now in Michigan is the ad that everybody's talking about [2:24] that she wanted him, that she wanted the candidates, Abdul El-Sea, to denounce. He did. He said the content [2:32] was terrible. But the negative ads that have been on television in Michigan the last couple of months [2:41] has put kerosene on divisions, on anger. People in the Jewish community are scared to death. They've [2:50] seen a rise in anti-Semitism. I had lunch with leaders in the Arab American community on Saturday [2:57] and while they support Abdul. We're scared about what violence might be targeted at them if he wins [3:04] tomorrow night. And I spent a lot of time with the black community. They're seeing a rise of racism. [3:10] They're scared. I think I would ask everybody right now to talk about some of the things Haley talked [3:17] about yesterday. I was very shocked at what she did. But the hate and the anger in this country right now [3:23] is very scary and it's coming from all sides. I've heard you say that you were worried and concerned [3:29] about her as a person, as a friend, as someone you've known a long time. What are you worried [3:36] about? What is worrying you? Look, she's a human being. It is very clear that she has had some hurt [3:48] feelings. It's very difficult to lose an election. There are many people that respect her. She was feeling [3:57] torn. She has a very significant Jewish community that itself was torn on this issue. She's had a lot [4:05] of people saying many things to her. And, you know, as a human being, you worry about somebody who's under [4:12] that kind of stress and you want to make sure that you're there to give them the support, help them deal [4:17] with all the different things that are coming at them, and talk through things that they are thinking [4:23] and actions they're thinking about. Do you think that, are you, do you think that she's going to regret [4:29] this decision? Is that what you think? Like, as time passes and she wasn't under as amount of stress [4:35] that you say that she's under and pressure, she would decide differently? I think that, I'm not going to [4:43] second guess what she did, but I'm going to tell her, I'm going to say to you, there are many people that are [4:50] very, very angry. And you heard our party chair say yesterday, you're not a Democrat anymore. There's [4:56] not a place for her here. I tried to get many of my colleagues to focus on tomorrow's election because [5:03] this is a distraction. It's been a distraction for 10 days and focus on what the real issues are. [5:10] But there are a lot of people that don't understand what she did and are very, very angry. And you've [5:15] heard those words and seen those statements. One of the things helping to fuel that is she did not [5:22] articulate last night in a lengthy conversation with my colleague, Anderson Cooper, of what actually [5:28] changed for her from Saturday into Sunday morning, especially after a conversation with you. Do you [5:35] know or have a, it seems that it should, could be clear, but it's not clear because she did not [5:42] articulate last night. Do you know what changed for her? I have suspicions and I'm not going to [5:52] speculate. I was not the only one that she told she would, you know, there would have been rumors [5:58] all week. We all know she did CNN a week ago Sunday and that led to speculation. There was all kinds of [6:06] chaos of people talking to each other and being worried about what was going to happen Wednesday night [6:11] when she did Caitlin Collins. And I know she said to me, I just want to be out of the news. [6:17] And I tried to say, you know, don't make any more news. And I don't know what changed. She did say [6:26] she was a passionate Democrat before I did CNN on Saturday, where I scripted with her. Okay, can I say [6:34] this? She was the one that told me to say, I'm a passionate Democrat. I'm going to be voting for Abdul. [6:39] So, you know, I know that there are other people she cares about in her life that have concerns and [6:47] we're talking to. I don't know what changed between late Saturday and Sunday morning. She texted me [6:54] Sunday morning when I was doing something and saying some of the same things we had talked about doing [6:59] with heart emojis. So, look, I care about her. I'm very worried about her as a human being. Last night's [7:07] interview was very difficult. I cannot lie and say to you, she has really hurt herself. But I'm not sure [7:15] that what she was trying to accomplish or what others were trying to get her to accomplish [7:21] is the reality of what's happening. I actually think that it is backlashing. [7:28] As for her future in the Democratic Party, you know, you've said that she seriously hurt herself. [7:32] Just point counterpoint on this one. You can see how she has hurt herself with the Democratic Party [7:39] establishment. Look no further than the chair of the Democratic Party in Michigan. But don't you as [7:44] a party want people who speak up when they disagree? Look, does anybody think I don't speak up when I [7:53] think something's wrong? Exactly. I think it was probably the... No. So, yeah, we're a party and [8:00] people should speak up. You know, democracy thrives when people of different perspectives, [8:06] different life experiences share those and you find the common ground. I think the way [8:11] that she did this is probably permanently hurt her. Let's get right to CNN's Brian Todd live this [8:19] morning in a very bright Detroit, Michigan. Look, I got to say the spotlight very much on Michigan and [8:26] Detroit this morning. The real question is, with all these members of Congress and electeds arguing back and [8:30] forth about Haley Stevens, what do the voters think about all this? Well, John, the voters that we spoke [8:38] to yesterday at an early polling station were not too impressed with Haley Stevens. They did not [8:43] support her. I'm going to get to that in just a moment. You know, the question that you've been [8:47] replaying, you know, Anderson's interview and that everybody's asking is, what was it exactly that [8:52] changed her mind? One other nugget regarding that was that Haley Stevens' mother, Maria Marcotte, [8:58] she is a retired advertising executive. She told CNN that she addressed the speculation that maybe [9:05] Haley Stevens' fiance, a prominent Michigan lawyer named Jason Turkish who supports Mike Rogers, [9:11] that he might have played a part in changing her mind. Well, Haley Stevens' own mother said that that [9:16] did not play a part in this. She vehemently denied that and said that Haley Stevens is her own woman, [9:21] that she made her own decision. But again, that central question of why she did this is really [9:26] resonating and we don't have a clear answer as to why she did this. I will say that one source [9:30] in the Rogers campaign told me yesterday that when Abdul Al-Sayed said on Saturday to a question [9:37] that I had asked him, he said on Saturday, I don't think any of this matters, meaning his back and forth [9:42] with Haley Stevens. Well, a source in the Rogers campaign told me that that's what pushed her over [9:46] the edge. But again, Haley Stevens has not come out and definitively said that. She has said that she didn't [9:52] feel welcome in Abdul Al-Sayed's campaign and that's the reason that she's kept hitting on. [9:56] So you've got that. But in the meantime, both Haley Stevens and Abdul Al-Sayed are trying to downplay [10:01] all this. Haley Stevens saying, hey, I'm just one vote. All of my other votes are going to be for [10:06] Democrats. Abdul Al-Sayed is also saying that he doesn't think much about all this. Here's what he had [10:11] to say about that. At the end of the day, I actually don't think about Haley Stevens. [10:17] See what I'm saying? I think about the, like I said, the 9,999,998 people who are not those two. [10:24] Because you know what? I'm just less interested in the politics of it all than I am in the policy [10:30] of it all. That reference to the 9,999,000, etc. people, that is a reference to the general [10:40] population of the state of Michigan, which is about 10 million people. Now, what do the voters [10:44] think? Well, we caught up with some voters at an early voting station yesterday, right [10:48] before the early voting closed here in Michigan. None of the people we spoke to on camera were [10:52] very supportive of Haley Stevens. Here's what two of them had to say. [10:58] I kind of, I mean, at this point, what's it really look like, right? If you're endorsing [11:02] a Republican, your fiancee, husband endorsing a Republican, are you really a Democrat? [11:11] I'm not surprised. She just seems like a flip-flopper originally anyway. Just from everything that [11:24] I, you know, read about her previously. So I wasn't totally surprised. [11:34] So as for how the voters are going to react tomorrow, we're going to do our best to find [11:38] that out. I'm going to be at a polling station near this area tomorrow morning and throughout [11:41] the day, I'm going to ask as many voters as I can what effect Haley Stevens' endorsement [11:46] had on their decision, etc. So hopefully we'll get a better gauge of that tomorrow. What we also [11:50] can tell you, John, is that CNN's own reporting is that Abdul Al-Sayed's fundraising went up more [11:57] than a million dollars just yesterday since Haley Stevens made her announcement. John? [12:02] Got to say, no one works harder on Election Day talking to voters than you, Brian Todd. [12:06] We look forward to having you take us inside all these decisions as they're made in real time. [12:12] Good to see you there. Thank you. Kate? [12:13] Let's talk about this right now. Joining us is Scott McFarlane, the chief [12:16] Washington correspondent for the Midas Touch Network, and Kate Santeliz, congressional reporter [12:21] for Axios. It's good to see you guys. Scott, how much, what real impact do you think this, [12:28] I mean, shocker has on the Senate race there? [12:31] The noise has been so omnipresent in Michigan. Talk to a lot of voters in Detroit, Grand [12:39] Ledge, Lansing, Flint, who say they're about done with this election. They've had enough [12:43] on the airwaves, had enough on their text messages, had enough with the direct mailers in their [12:47] mailbox. It's hard to imagine anything breaking through a saturated set of political races. [12:53] And Kate, that's because the U.S. Senate race, though it sucks up all the oxygen, is not the only [12:58] battleground race in Michigan. There's a gubernatorial race, enormous implications. The [13:02] governor will help certify the 2028 election in that state. And there are three Republican-held U.S. [13:08] House seats. Kalamazoo, Lansing, Macomb County. Democrats think they're about to flip tomorrow. [13:14] It's a lot more at stake than just the Senate race. Voters are getting inundated with messages. [13:19] Yeah. And Kate, Debbie Dingell, when she was on, she, I mean, she made clear she doesn't know [13:24] what changed for Haley Stevens overnight. She does think that it backfired when it comes to that Senate [13:30] race. And she also does think that Haley Stevens has basically ruined her future in Democratic [13:35] politics. What do you think about that in terms of how you know congressional Democrats work and [13:43] operate? Yeah, I mean, the backlash has been really striking here. You know, Michigan is crucial for [13:50] Democrats' hopes of keeping the Senate, if they are going to do that tomorrow. And now we're seeing [13:55] this very public rupture within the Democratic Party just on the eve of Election Day. You know, [14:00] the backlash from congressional Democrats, like the top Democrat in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, [14:05] who called it a despicable betrayal. We've also seen Michigan Democrats say that she's no longer [14:10] welcome in the Democratic Party. And then some of her Democratic colleagues, like Debbie Dingell, [14:14] expressing concern for her well-being. And that's because there is just widespread confusion in the [14:19] party right now about why she made this endorsement switch. You know, in the interview last night on [14:23] CNN, she was given multiple opportunities to explain why she made that switch, and she really couldn't give [14:28] a clear answer. And what we've been hearing from Democrats mostly is that they feel like she's just trying [14:33] to make this election about herself. They feel really betrayed here. So her future in the Democratic [14:37] Party is really not going to be clear. She's resigning at the end of this term, but it's not clear what her [14:42] next steps could be here with the Democratic Party reacting like this.