Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing on the Politically Violent Attacks in America — CBN News

[0:00] We'll call this hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the Constitution to order. [0:05] Hearing for today is on politically violent attacks and the threat to our constitutional order. [0:12] I'll give my opening statement, then we'll go to the ranking member, [0:15] and then after we might do a second round of opening remarks, [0:19] introduce the witnesses, swear you guys in, and then get rolling with questions. [0:24] For the past 15 months, political violence has been a constant fact of American life. [0:29] We've seen arsons and bombings, armed ambushes and assaults, sniper attacks and mass shootings, [0:36] riots, and violent mobs on our city streets. [0:40] We've seen assassinations. We've seen murder. We've seen death. [0:45] None of this is random. It's organized, coordinated political terror. [0:51] The people behind this violence are not common street criminals. [0:54] They're not driven by money or drugs or gangland turf disputes. [0:58] They're determined, militant extremists who, [1:04] who wield violence for political ends. [1:08] They know that their vision would never win at the ballot box, [1:11] so they've chosen terrorism instead. [1:14] They know their ideas could not win in the marketplace of ideas, [1:17] so they shoot up the marketplace. [1:20] Last year, President Trump survived not one, but two assassination attempts. [1:25] In Butler, Pennsylvania, he escaped a sniper's bullet by a centimeter in a split second. [1:31] Only weeks later, in West Palm Beach, [1:33] another would-be assassin camped out for 12 hours in the brush, [1:36] outside of the Capitol. [1:37] The [1:53] president was shot dead in the back of the head at Trump International Golf Club, [1:56] armed with a loaded rifle, burner phones, a GoPro, hoping to finish the job. [2:01] Less than two months later, a healthcare CEO was gunned down in cold blood on a New York street [2:06] by a left-wing extremist who called his victim a parasite who had it coming. [2:09] None of these Americans had a favorable view of the killer, [2:13] whereas Just 8 percent of very conservative Americans felt the same. [2:18] Then came an all-out war on Immigration and Customs enforcement. [2:21] Across the country, federal officers were hunted like prey. [2:25] They were attacked, surrounded, ambushed, and shot at. [2:29] Their facilities were firebombed. [2:32] There were arrests for arson, for assault, for violent threats and doxing. [2:35] But the violence continued to escalate. [2:39] On July 4th, 11 members of an Antifa terror cell [2:42] carried out a coordinated eighth measure to sack some citizens [2:43] coordinated ambush on an ICE facility in Texas. They arrived in two vehicles [2:47] loaded with semi-automatic rifles, handguns, Molotov cocktails, body armor, [2:52] and encrypted radios. Their gear was painted with a circle A for Antifa. They [2:58] detonated fireworks to lure officers out into the open and then opened fire and [3:03] kept shooting until their guns jammed. One cop was struck in the neck and [3:07] critically wounded while racing to respond. Just three weeks later a [3:12] transgender shooter entered a Catholic elementary school in Minneapolis and [3:16] opened fire on hundreds of children while they prayed. Dozens were wounded. [3:21] Two little children, a ten-year-old girl and an eight-year-old boy were killed. [3:25] The shooter marked his guns with slogans like, where is your God now? and posted [3:31] videos using an image of Christ for target practice. Two weeks after that [3:36] Charlie Kirk was murdered while speaking to students in Utah. The killer told [3:42] friends and family he did it because Charlie was full of hate. Social media [3:48] exploded with gloating celebration. Thousands upon thousands of people, [3:53] journalists, professors, and government employees could not contain their glee [4:00] that a father of two young children had been gunned down in broad daylight. When [4:06] Americans gathered to mourn him, they were attacked there too. In El Paso, an [4:11] arsonist set fire to a church holding a vigil in his memory. A week later a man [4:17] opened fire into an ABC news station in Sacramento, [4:22] days after the network suspended Jimmy Kimmel's show. Police found anti-trump [4:27] writings in his car and a handwritten note that read, Patel, Bongino, and Pam [4:33] Bondi, they're next. And just last week, an anarchist radical was arrested for [4:40] placing a $45,000 bounty on Pam Bondi, posting an image of the [4:47] Attorney General with a sniper dot on her head. The caption read, wanted dead or [4:52] alive, preferably dead. A week after the ABC news show, the [4:57] arresting of the former police chief, Kate [5:04] and Billadell, on the cemeteries of El Paso, at this time, was thought to have [5:09] been the last time the police were found. In late February, an ABC shooting a [5:15] sniper opened fire on an ice facility in Dallas, killing multiple people. [5:21] Investigators recovered shell casings etched with the words, anti-ice. And this month, a man, who flew across the country to murder Justice Brett Kavanaugh, received a sentence of just eight years. He brought a gun, ammunition, a knife, duct tape, and zip ties to kill a sitting Supreme Court justice in his own home while his wife and kids were present because he did not see him. [5:24] sitting Supreme Court Justice in his own home while his wife and kids were [5:30] present because he didn't like the way he might rule on gun control or abortion. [5:34] This is the nature of political violence in America today. It's driven by a system [5:41] far larger than the people who commit the act itself. We've seen this system in [5:46] action. We've forgotten, we have not forgotten, what happened in 2020. Five [5:52] years ago violent mobs burned and looted their way through our cities. The press [5:56] called the riots mostly peaceful though. Ivy League academics celebrated them as [6:02] righteous acts of resistance. The wealthy corporations in the world donated [6:07] billions to keep them going. Vice-presidential candidates bailed [6:11] rioters out of jail. Prosecutors declined charges. Judges released arsonists and [6:17] anarchists just hours after their arrests. The same public health experts [6:21] who banned funerals and shut down churches declared mass protests [6:26] justified because racism is a public [6:29] health crisis. Politicians reserve their outrage not for criminals torching [6:35] police precincts but for the officers trying to defend them. The largest cities [6:40] in the nation slashed their police budgets by hundreds of millions of [6:44] dollars, unleashing a deadly wave of violent crime on a scale not seen in [6:48] decades. The largest single-year increase in murders in more than a [6:53] century. The activists on the ground claimed that claimed to be [6:57] revolutionaries fighting the powers that be. But the truth is they were backed by [7:02] the full force of the ruling regime. The mobs that torch cities, the radicals who [7:07] ambush ICE agents, the activists who terrorize judges at their homes, all of [7:12] them are foot soldiers in the same regime. A regime whose foundational [7:17] ideology is that we're born either as victims or oppressors and is the duty of [7:22] relevant revolutionaries to impose their vision of equity upon us all. This [7:27] sustained campaign of violence is explicitly and specifically political. It [7:33] is motivated by a distinct [7:34] and fanatical ideology, rabidly anti-American, anti-Western and [7:40] anti-civilization itself. It is a worldview that indicts the United States [7:44] as an illegitimate nation born in evil. By now most Americans have heard this [7:50] language. It has dominated our public life for years. These are not fringe [7:55] ideas any longer. They have not just been tolerated but actively embraced, [8:01] repeated and amplified through the largest megaphones in our country. To my [8:06] friends on the other side of the [8:08] aisle who may take offense with these categorizations, how often have we heard [8:11] Democrats praise these radicals for their idealism? How many elected officials [8:15] have called riots the language of the unheard? The violence stalking our [8:20] streets today is a feature, not a bug. There is an evil but consistent logic to [8:26] it. It's the natural and logical result of the ideology itself. If the violent [8:33] elements ideals were so praiseworthy, then the system which obstructs their [8:37] fulfillment is to blame. And why work within a blameworthy system? [8:42] If those ideals were behind this soundly [9:00] idéalism should be observed? How will it be applied to walk away empty-handed [9:08] and crush and destroy still the common condescending and negativistic [9:13] system? [9:14] that mass migration is an inalienable right, then opening the floodgates to uncontrolled [9:19] immigration, tearing down the border, and attacking those who defend it might look like justice to [9:25] you. If you believe that America was conceived in murder and built on stolen land, then you feel no [9:32] moral obligation to respect and obey its laws. If you truly believe the police are the armed [9:38] enforcers of racist oppression who indiscriminately murder innocent victims in the streets, then you [9:44] might see violence against an officer as an act of brave resistance. When Charlie Kirk was murdered, [9:50] one of his killer's bullets was engraved with the message, hey fascist, catch. But who taught [9:57] him that Charlie Kirk was a fascist? Who conceived him, who convinced him, I should say, [10:04] that Charlie's hate made his murder a righteous act? Who told him over and over again that people [10:11] who believe what Charlie Kirk believed are threats to our democracy? He didn't invent that [10:17] world. He didn't invent it. He didn't invent it. He didn't invent it. He didn't invent it. [10:18] He learned it, as did each and every one of the arsonists, assassins, and militants who came before [10:25] him. Perhaps the people in power who said these things didn't really believe them, but clearly [10:31] some of the people who listened to them did. And now they are taking those ideas to their final [10:37] logical conclusion. Enough. We are faced with only two paths. Either we confront this political [10:46] violence and end it, or it will end us. And I can think of no better person to introduce this topic [10:54] than the late Charlie Kirk himself. I'm going to show a quick video before we go to the ranking [10:59] member of him speaking on this precise subject, and I hope everyone would listen closely and heed [11:04] his warning. Now on Thursday, more violence from the radical left, this time directed at [11:10] Turning Point USA and their group on the campus of UC Davis. Here with more, Turning Point USA [11:16] founder, CEO, Charlie Kirk. It's interesting. We were texting, what, about a week ago? [11:22] And I kept saying, you know, it takes a lot of courage for you and your group, [11:26] and these young kids, to be setting up in these hostile environments on college campuses. And, [11:32] you know, lo and behold, it's not the first time it's happened, but we'll show the video as you're [11:36] speaking. Tell us everything that went on. Yeah, it's shocking stuff. It's a pattern now. We're [11:41] seeing this happening on more and more campuses. So at the University of California, Davis, [11:45] our brave Turning Point USA chapter was set to host Brandon Tatum as a prove me wrong event. [11:50] Goes up, sets a table. Anyone can go and have free speech and dialogue if they disagree. Antifa [11:56] showed up, full masked. [11:58] Black outfits. They came in, took our gear, destroyed our tables, basically [12:02] made the students had to flee, and the police did nothing to intervene. Nothing whatsoever. [12:08] Our courageous students had such resolve and fortitude that after this incident happened, [12:13] they regathered and tried to do the event still about an hour later, but it wasn't the same, [12:17] of course. This is after one of our Turning Point USA students at University of Texas, [12:21] Dallas, had a bike lock thrown at her and actually had to be hospitalized for this treatment. Sean, [12:28] what is the situation now? [12:29] We have not seen a disturbing pattern from the radical left and we have data to now support it. [12:34] According to the national contagion research institute, 48% of left of center respondents say [12:41] that it's justified to murder Elon Musk. 53% say that it would be justified to murder President [12:46] Donald Trump. There are ballot measures in California that are being measured by far left [12:51] activists that are being named, I should say, after Luigi Maggioni. We have to take a step back here [12:56] and ask our question. What's really going on here? There's a deeper thing that is going on here that's [12:57] going on here that is going on in the first place. It's the same thing that happened in San Francisco, [12:57] San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San [12:57] San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San Francisco, San [12:57] than just political disagreement if you are on the front lines like our turning point usa students [13:03] you are potentially putting your safety your well-being and god forbid your life in jeopardy [13:07] for simply being a conservative on a college campus ranking member welsh thank you very much [13:16] mr chairman and i want to thank the witnesses for being here today i just want to make it clear i [13:22] am absolutely horrified uh by political violence in this country uh and senator schmidt did today [13:31] just now but did a hearing last week you or last month you said quote political violence is always [13:38] wrong period full stop it doesn't matter which side in the name of any ideology or cause [13:47] it's wrong and senator schmidt i agree with you it is wrong and all of us [13:53] must condemn every act of violence that tears at the fabric of our society and is absolutely [13:59] totally corrosive to our democracy and i think us as elected officials on both sides of the aisle [14:06] we have a significant duty to engage and disagree but with respect unmotivated by hate [14:13] our rhetoric matters and we can reflect our commitment to representing our constituents [14:19] aggressively assertively but without [14:22] the kind of [14:23] hatred that foments bad bad bad behavior and political violence touches all americans [14:32] regardless of their political affiliation you know i got involved in politics uh when i was involved [14:38] in the civil rights movement and two of the people that i most admired in politics martin luther king [14:45] and bobby kennedy were both assassinated and i unequivocally condemned mr kirk's [14:52] assassination unequivocally i know mr knowles here's [14:54] very very close to him i know senator schmidt was very very close to him [14:58] and i know millions of americans were inspired by him i condemn that let me be clear i condemn [15:05] that killing i was also you just want to say this the stakes are really too high [15:15] for the american people in the health of our democracy to use this hearing as an [15:23] opportunity to demonize one side or the other if all political vote if all violence all political [15:30] violence is wrong is evil is corrosive the debate about where there's more [15:38] on one side or the other i don't see how that helps us get anywhere politicizing violence [15:44] with inflammatory rhetoric has real consequences so all of us have to turn that temperature down [15:51] those of us who are in public office those of us who are in public life [15:56] you know one of the things that happens when we have a reaction to violence is we say like a capes [16:00] reaction that's political and demonize it as being one side or the other is [16:04] there can be governmental action that then starts suppressing the rights of [16:08] all of our citizens whether on the right or on the left and we've got that [16:13] history in our country the Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to [16:17] criticize the government under the guise of national security my predecessor [16:22] Matthew Lyon Vermont congressman in 1797 went to jail because he criticized [16:28] President Adams that was wrong he ran for re-election in Vermonters responded [16:35] by re-electing him from jail standing up for his free free speech rights in the [16:40] 20s we saw the Palmer Raids and what that would happen there with illegal [16:47] searches and seizures without arrest and without warrants and other [16:50] constitutional attacks on the rights of organized labor and of everyday citizens [16:56] under the name of going after quote the [16:58] far-left and of course in the 50s McCarthyism fueled a campaign of fear [17:03] and prosecution against left-wing groups and I put that in quotes until the [17:08] Supreme Court stepped in to ensure civil rights and civil liberties were [17:12] guaranteed you know I was listening to Mr. Kirk and I do believe what he did [17:19] going on campuses to encourage dialogue was a good thing to do that's what we [17:23] should have and there should be a civil reaction to that but I'm worried that [17:29] you know we're going to have to do something about it and I think that's a good thing to do that's what we should have and there should be a civil reaction to that but I'm worried that [17:29] you know we're going to have to do something about it and I think that's a good thing to do that's what we should have and there should be a civil reaction to that but I'm worried that [17:29] if we're just going to use the violence that we all abhor to get into an [17:35] argument about whether it's more left or more right we kind of lose the point [17:39] that it's all to be condemned so I'm willing to work with any and all of us to [17:46] condemn political violence and and renew our commitment to civility and Mr. [17:55] Chairman he's not here but I sent over to his office a resolution about [17:59] civility and I think that's a good thing to do that's what we should have and there should be a civil reaction to that but I'm worried that [17:59] if we're just going to use the violence that we all abhor to get into an argument about whether it's more left or more right we kind of lose the point [18:00] that is just basic agreement to disagree but not to use invective or hate at all [18:08] in our discourse so my view we can't stop the discussion by having a focus on [18:16] whether it's left or right wing not to leave that unexamined but it has to be [18:22] wholly and completely condemned and I look forward to hearing from our [18:25] witnesses about your suggestions and how we as a country can do better [18:30] and I yield to Senator Lee thank you thank you I want to thank each of you [18:39] for being here I look forward to hearing your testimony I'm so very grateful to [18:45] Senator Schmidt ranking member Welsh and those who put together this hearing [18:49] working with them violence for the purpose of achieving political ends in [18:55] the United States of America is itself un-American it's something that is [19:01] anathema to who we are as a people and as a nation and as a country and as a [19:03] nation and as a country every every individual has a purpose in life that [19:05] must be done and it must be universally condemned and should be regarded as an [19:12] unthinkable relic of societies that manifestly lack the rule of law because [19:18] it is our republic has regrettably become infected by a type of ideological [19:25] cancer one that tends to excuse even the most heinous acts so long as they can be [19:32] said to achieve [19:34] politically favored causes now because of the way our news media tends to lean and a number of [19:40] factors those are often leftist causes that are embracing this if they weren't if it happened the [19:48] other way the media would serve as a check on that the media doesn't always serve as a check on that [19:52] when it comes from the left because very often a number of voices within the media tend to agree [19:58] with those thoughts and i think that's part of how we get to the point where such a high percentage [20:02] of those who identify themselves as a part of the left are willing to say that murder of president [20:11] trump is morally justifiable and other polls have come out since charlie kirk's assassination that [20:17] show that trend getting worse not letter not better just in the last few weeks for examples [20:23] of this alarming trend one need look no further than the mostly peaceful burning of various [20:29] american cities throughout the so-called summer of love in 2020 or the coddling of pro-hama [20:34] and anti-semitic mobs by university administrators just in the last year or two and even the [20:41] disgusting attempts to rationalize excuse and in many cases even praise the cold-blooded assassination [20:48] of charlie kirk through grotesque distortions of his past public statements and otherwise this must [20:56] end today this hearing gives us a real chance to reflect upon and confront this very disturbing and [21:04] building trend that has been going on for a very long time and i think it's important for us to [21:05] reflect upon and confront this very disturbing and building trend that has been going on for a very long time [21:05] within our society it's not enough to state that political violence is wrong we must expose it [21:11] call it out where it exists and root out the forces that tend to enable it now to those who [21:18] would cite the first amendment somehow in defense of actions that cannot be defended on their own [21:25] merits let us be very clear violence is not protected speech neither is incitement to [21:31] violence or funding of violence or facilitation of violence any more so than a conspiracy to [21:37] commit violent acts would be protected by the first amendment these things are not they are [21:42] analytically distinct legally constitutionally distinct from speech they're not covered by the [21:48] first amendment indeed the preservation of free speech itself depends on our ability to shield [21:54] peaceful discourse from those who would silence dissent through any form of violence look modern [22:03] americans society is the greatest civilization the world has ever known now many on the other side of [22:11] the aisle have decided that um they ought to repeatedly engage in inflammatory uh sometimes [22:19] irresponsible rhetoric that creates permission sort of establishes a permission structure you [22:26] might say for violence directed at our civil institutions as the trump administration works [22:32] tirelessly to safeguard americans from this wave of criminal illegal aliens that have come through [22:38] over the last four and a half years many democrat leaders have fought back tooth and nail [22:44] describing federal law enforcement as quote a quote modern day gestapo as slave patrols as thugs [22:54] and as a collective terror force despite multiple assassination attempts against [23:02] trump it was and remains today fashionable in leftist circles to compare president trump to [23:10] hitler and smear his reporters his supporters as fascists what has been the result of this [23:18] across the country ice agents have been under attack personally not just as a group at an ice [23:28] facility in texas officers were attacked with one even being shot in the neck investigators later [23:34] found evidence of left-wing anarchist and anti-government ideology anti-ice slogans [23:40] antifa imagery and online discussions specifically targeting federal agencies and yet again [23:47] much of the left either ignored the story altogether or blamed the government for [23:51] provoking the attack and leftists in the media meanwhile did at best nothing [23:56] to stop it and in other cases tended to foment it this violence toward the executive branch [24:02] is not itself isolated in 2022 a california man boarded a plane to maryland with a pistol [24:09] with ammunition and with a fairly distinct plan his goal to assassinate supreme court [24:17] justice brett kavanaugh because he disagreed with the leaked ruling in the dobbs case that [24:22] would go on to overturn rover [24:24] his way he disagreed with that ruling therefore he decided he had to kill this justice [24:28] he was consumed by far-left ideology and the belief that violence is justified somehow when [24:36] our system does not result in the outcomes desired by the left he later told investigators that he [24:45] wanted to quote unquote give his life by killing brett kavanaugh himself that is not activism [24:55] that is radicalism that is extremism it is driven by the same ideology that [24:59] caused violent protest resistance and dressing dressing it up in as many euphemisms as people can [25:06] find shockingly some leftists suggest almost as a matter of routine that daring to question their [25:14] misguided beliefs is akin to perpetuating violence against certain favored groups or disfavored [25:21] groups i hope we can find bipartisan consensus in condemning all political violence without [25:27] reservation and without regard to the ideology of the [25:31] person at whom the violence might be directed to overcome the very worst instincts of human natures [25:41] somewhat natural tendency toward violence although it's a tendency that can and must [25:45] be suppressed in any free civilization we must first remember that we are one nation [25:52] and one people under god united by bonds far stronger than any passing political moment [25:59] or cause political violence regardless of the alleged justification [26:04] regardless of the political beliefs of those embracing it or opposing it will never and [26:11] must never be tolerated by this body or by the united states of america thank you mr chairman [26:18] thank you senator lee would the witnesses please rise i will now administer the oath would you [26:28] raise your right hand please and answer this question do you swear that the testimony you [26:33] are about to give this committee will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help [26:39] you god thank you thank you very much and i want to introduce our first witness [26:46] uh it's mr wolf thank you uh for being here mr wolf and i understand that you have a very [26:52] distinguished career you serve as america first policy institute's executive vice president chief [26:58] strategy officer and chair of afpi's homeland security immigration and uh i also understand [27:05] prior to that you were acting secretary of homeland acting secretary of the united states馥 [27:06] avin [27:09] of homeland uh acting secretary of the united states can you give us a asleep position.... [27:11] department of homeland security and during your time at dhs you successfully navigated [27:18] incredible number of global and domestic challenges to the nation's security [27:22] including covet 19 civil unrest numerous border and immigration crises and historic natural [27:29] disasters and threats to global aviation security and understand too that you serve now as president [27:36] and founder of wolf global advisors welcome you may proceed thank you chairman schmidt ranking [27:45] member welch members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify today political speech and [27:50] violence should never go hand in hand i'm here today because i've seen this play this play out [27:55] firsthand over the last several years and certainly during my time in government service [28:00] let me be clear i support those who lawfully exercise their constitutional rights but when [28:05] speech turns to violence we must hold those committing violence accountable [28:10] you [28:10] the increase in politically motivated violence over the last several years [28:14] has been driven largely by radical left-wing extremist groups and individuals that believe [28:19] violence is a legitimate means to achieve political goals a recent analysis by the [28:25] center for strategic and international studies shows that quote left-wing violence has risen [28:29] in the last 10 years and left-wing incidents in 2025 are on track to reach 30-year highs [28:36] a recent rutgers university poll found that 55 percent over half of the respondents [28:42] have left of center said it would be somewhat justified to murder president trump and 48 [28:48] said the same about elon musk according to another recent poll one in four people on the far left [28:53] believe that violence can be justified that is one in four the data paints a disturbing picture that [29:00] some on the left especially younger adults are increasingly supportive of violence as a form of [29:06] protest in 2020 as acting secretary of homeland security i witnessed 100 consecutive nights [29:12] of violence in portland oregon every night per day we were Saundersville the go-to đến hong kong [29:15] Every night, hundreds of violent anarchists surrounded the Hatfield Federal Courthouse. [29:21] They hurled commercial-grade fireworks, sledgehammers, concretes, and even IEDs at our federal officers. [29:29] They set fire. They vandalized property and assaulted law enforcement. [29:33] Their goal was not peaceful protest. It was destruction, coercion, and intimidation. [29:38] At the time, I pleaded with local officials, including the governor and the mayor there in Portland, [29:43] to help protect our officers, and time and time again, they refused to act. [29:48] They chose politics over public safety. [29:51] The result was more than 280 injuries to law enforcement officers [29:54] and millions of dollars of damage to federal property and to local businesses. [29:59] Back then, we saw public figures attacking federal law enforcement officers, [30:03] calling them stormtroopers, Gestapo, and thugs. [30:06] Comparing American law enforcement to Nazi Germany was irresponsible, reckless, and dangerous then, [30:13] as it remains so today. [30:15] Unfortunately, this disgusting rhetoric and behavior has only intensified. [30:20] Once again, we're seeing violent attacks against law enforcement officers, [30:23] and again, public figures are describing them as Nazis. [30:27] The difference between 2020 and now, however, is that the Trump administration [30:31] knows what to expect and is fighting aggressively to hold these violent offenders accountable. [30:37] The administration has rightfully designated Antifa as domestic terrorists, [30:41] has began a whole-of-government investigation into the financing and resourcing of this group, [30:46] and has charged Antifa, [30:48] members with providing material support for terrorism. [30:50] And despite what the mainstream media insists, groups like Antifa are not disorganized. [30:56] They are increasingly organized, funded, and networked. [31:00] They plan online, they operate anonymously, and execute in ways that make detection difficult. [31:05] Make no mistake, their lack of structure is not a feature, [31:09] is a feature, sorry, not a bug. [31:13] And it is designed to evade accountability and prosecution. [31:16] Critics argue because they have no formal leadership, they shouldn't be treated as domestic terrorists. [31:21] I believe this completely misses the point. [31:25] This decentralized model mirrors what we have seen from jihadist networks, [31:30] cyber criminals, and other criminal groups. [31:32] Their lack of a hierarchy makes them more dangerous. [31:35] This past summer, the American people witnessed multiple anti-fascist inspired attacks [31:40] and threats on law enforcement, journalists, and civilians. [31:44] This includes threats against ICE officers, other government officials, [31:48] and even Attorney General Bondi just yesterday. [31:51] Tragically, this also includes [31:54] the sickening assassination of Charlie Kirk. [31:56] I want to state this as plainly as I can. [31:59] Enforcing immigration law, laws passed by Congress almost 60 years ago, [32:04] is in no way, shape, or form fascism. [32:07] Every sovereign nation has a right to choose who is allowed to legally enter the country. [32:13] Throwing around words like fascist and Nazi not only cheapens history, [32:18] but it fuels increasing hostility towards law enforcement, journalists, and ordinary citizens. [32:23] The rise in political violence presents a [32:26] grave threat to our constitutional order and rule of law. [32:30] The federal government has a duty and a responsibility to respond. [32:34] We must continue to give law enforcement the tools and the resources they need, [32:37] allow ICE to operate safely in courthouses and jails across the country, [32:42] increase penalties for those that dox federal officers, [32:45] and expand joint task forces to dismantle. [32:49] We owe it to the families who have lost loved ones, [32:51] including Erica Kirk and others who continue to grieve. [32:55] To ensure that their calls for accountability, [32:57] are answered, and that our nation restores respect for law and order. [33:01] Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. [33:04] Thank you, Mr. Wolf. [33:05] By the way, our chairman has had to go vote, [33:08] and I'm going to have to go do that after I introduce Mr. Braniff. [33:12] Mr. Braniff is the Director of Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab [33:17] at American University, [33:20] where he's working on research and programming to prevent violent extremism, [33:27] and the drivers of polarization in American society. [33:31] I also want to note that he's a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, [33:38] and has served as a company commander in the U.S. Army. [33:41] Mr. Braniff. [33:43] Chairman Schmidt, Ranking Member Welch, [33:47] distinguished senators, thank you for your leadership on this critical issue, [33:51] and for the opportunity to testify today. [33:54] Twenty-six years ago, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. [33:58] I've spent my career honoring that oath, [34:00] as an Army officer, terrorism researcher, [34:03] and leading prevention programs at the Department of Homeland Security. [34:06] It's a lifelong commitment to protect kids and schools, [34:10] families and faith communities, [34:12] public spaces and workplaces, [34:14] and the democratic institutions and freedoms our founders gave us. [34:18] This isn't about politics or party for me. [34:20] It never has been. [34:22] I'm here representing a community of like-minded practitioners, [34:26] law enforcement, mental health, educators, veterans, [34:29] who work every day to prevent violence [34:31] before it destroys families and communities. [34:34] We're united by a simple belief. [34:36] Targeted violence is preventable, [34:38] and American communities deserve better than waiting for the next attack. [34:42] We should all condemn targeted violence. [34:44] It's tragic, unethical, and illegal. [34:47] I want to start by acknowledging the threats, the loss, and the fear [34:50] that too many Americans and too many elected officials have experienced. [34:54] But we should also not mistake the blame game for advancing solutions. [34:59] Solutions must be based on data and evidence. [35:02] Solutions must focus on preventing political violence in the first place [35:06] instead of reacting after the damage has been done. [35:09] And solutions must reinforce our constitutionally protected freedoms, [35:13] not erode them. [35:15] To inform policymaking, Congress legislated that the executive branch [35:18] provide data on terrorism and targeted violence. [35:21] DHS contracted with START at the University of Maryland [35:24] to produce the T2V data set, [35:26] although the administration abruptly canceled funding in March. [35:30] START data demonstrate clearly that violent events do not fit [35:33] neatly into any one ideological category, [35:36] and that there has been an alarming increase in attacks [35:39] and credible plots in the United States, [35:41] including over a 2,000% increase in mass casualty plots [35:45] since the early 1990s. [35:47] We average more than 2.5 attacks and credible plots per day in the U.S., [35:53] and over 50% of them succeed. [35:55] They occurred in over 1,200 U.S. towns and cities. [36:00] This year, compared to last year, terrorism events are up 67%, [36:03] and fatalities are up [36:04] nearly 150%. [36:07] Americans are dying from ISIS-inspired, [36:09] white supremacist, anti-Semitic, anti-government, anti-vax, [36:14] anti-law enforcement, and nihilistic attacks. [36:18] So these data highlight three challenges that we need to solve for. [36:22] The volume problem. [36:24] With 2.6 events per day, [36:25] we are at risk of accepting targeted violence as inevitable. [36:28] It is not. It is preventable. [36:31] The structural gap problem. [36:33] These plots succeed 55% of the time. [36:37] The structural gap is due to appropriate limitations placed on criminal justice investigations [36:42] to protect privacy, civil liberties, freedom of speech, and freedom of association. [36:47] So we can't fill the structural gap with criminal justice-only solutions [36:51] and maintain the freedoms enshrined in our Constitution. [36:54] And third, the reality is that targeted violence manifests [36:57] in many different forms of terrorism, hate crime, and school shootings. [37:01] Any approach that only addresses one manifestation [37:04] will be both operationally ineffective and fiscally inefficient. [37:08] At DHS, I led prevention programs [37:10] that partnered federal resources with local teams. [37:13] Sheriffs who knew their counties, schools who knew their students, [37:17] mental health professionals who knew their patients, [37:19] pastors who knew their congregations. [37:21] Local Americans protecting local communities. [37:25] This allowed us to engage in early interventions [37:27] that addressed all of the challenges I mentioned. [37:29] Volume, we supported nearly 1,200 interventions [37:33] for people on the pathway to violence. [37:35] Zero committed violence while on the program. [37:39] A structural gap and bridge to public safety. [37:42] In 94% of the cases, the individuals received support [37:45] from mental health professionals, social workers, [37:48] or other helping professionals. [37:50] 6% were referred to law enforcement. [37:53] Most of the individuals, 70%, were not yet self-medicating [37:57] on any one specific ideology when they came to us. [38:00] Just angry, isolated, and struggling. [38:03] And yet, without indexing our programs on any one ideology, [38:07] the intervention succeeded across all ideologies, [38:09] making this approach [38:10] both effective and cost-effective. [38:14] Nearly 1,200 people at risk of hurting themselves and others, [38:18] but before families had to bury loved ones, [38:20] we invested in prevention instead. [38:23] Political violence threatens our constitutional order, [38:27] but not just the violence, also how we respond to it. [38:31] Whether we choose to do what works, [38:33] quietly investing in scaling up prevention efforts, [38:36] or we feed political polarization [38:38] that makes Americans less safe and erodes our Constitution, [38:42] Americans deserve, and the Constitution [38:44] demands the former. [38:46] Thank you. [38:47] Thank you. [38:47] Next up is Michael Knowles. [38:49] Michael Knowles is the celebrated host [38:51] of the Michael Knowles Show on The Daily Wire, [38:53] as well as The Book Club on PragerU. [38:56] He has published two number one national best-selling books, [38:59] including Speechless, A History and Analysis [39:01] of the American Free Speech Tradition. [39:03] Michael has received numerous awards, [39:05] including the Conservative Mind Award [39:07] for the American Conservative Magazine, [39:08] an honorary doctorate of Humane Letters [39:11] from Ave Maria University. [39:13] Michael is a graduate of Yale, [39:15] and has lectured at universities and research institutions [39:17] around the world. [39:18] The floor is yours. [39:20] Thank you, Chairman Schmidt, Ranking Member Welch, [39:23] and all the members of this committee. [39:25] The ranking member suggested that we [39:27] condemn political violence, which surely we must all do. [39:30] But then he suggested that we not [39:32] try to pinpoint exactly which side the violence comes from. [39:36] This seems to me confusing and misbegotten, [39:38] as one cannot solve a problem if one does not [39:40] know where the problem lies. [39:42] In light of the murder of my friend Charlie Kirk [39:45] by a leftist assassin, I would like [39:45] to make a statement. [39:46] I am gratified to see that at least some members [39:50] of our federal legislature are now [39:51] confronting the consistent and escalating pattern [39:55] of left-wing terrorism in the country. [39:57] Lest I be accused of partisan invective, [40:01] on September 23rd, no less an emblem of American liberalism [40:05] than the Atlantic Magazine published an article [40:08] citing a recent study from the Center [40:09] for Strategic and International Studies, [40:12] admitting that the left is more violent today than the right. [40:16] Less honest liberals, and more liberal politicians, [40:16] including members of Congress, continue to deny this fact. [40:21] Democrat Congressman Seth Moulton, for example, [40:24] reacted to Charlie's assassination by blaming the right. [40:28] Congressman Moulton claimed that three-quarters of political [40:31] violence in the United States comes from the right, [40:34] while only 4% comes from the left. [40:37] That claim struck me, as it probably does many of you, [40:40] as suspect. [40:41] So I looked into just a few recent examples [40:43] that came to mind of prominent left-on-right violence. [40:47] The Covenant School Massacre in Nashville, [40:50] in which a trans-identifying shooter murdered Christian [40:52] schoolchildren after outlining her ideological motivations. [40:56] According to authorities, there was no ideological motive there. [40:59] Go figure. [41:01] The Black Lives Matter riots, overtly leftist demonstrations [41:04] that left dozens of people dead and over a billion dollars [41:07] worth of property damage. [41:09] Likewise, those fail to show up on registers [41:12] of left-wing political violence. [41:14] Even an attack by Antifa that targeted, [41:17] many personally, as well as conservative college students [41:20] for our political views, appeared in official records [41:22] and data sets as nothing more than obstructing law enforcement. [41:27] It turns out the left commits relatively little [41:30] political violence when you don't count the political violence [41:32] that the left commits. [41:35] I am here today to speak about that single illustrative [41:38] incident. [41:39] On April 18, 2023, I was invited to participate [41:42] in a debate at the University of Pittsburgh [41:44] on the topic of transgenderism. [41:46] Before the debate, several hundred [41:48] left-wing protesters gathered outside the student center, [41:52] many dressed uniformly in black with face coverings. [41:55] They lit the street on fire while burning me [41:57] an effigy with a little Hitler mustache painted on my face. [42:00] All because I hold the view, as most Americans do, [42:04] that men cannot become women. [42:06] Issued a safety emergency notification. [42:09] Issued a safety emergency notification. [42:13] Despite popular efforts to deny the existence of organized [42:17] left-wing terrorism, Brian and Christa [42:20] DePippa were not merely two citizens protesting a speaker [42:24] with whom they disagreed. [42:26] Things just got a little out of hand. [42:27] No. [42:28] They are members of an extremist cell, a cell that [42:32] meets at an anarchist bookshop, the sort of venue [42:34] that operates as training grounds for left-wing terror attacks. [42:38] Brian DePippa repeatedly set off TSA screeners [42:42] for explosive material on his body. [42:44] The Torch Antifa Network has claimed the DePippas as members [42:49] and raised money for them through a tax-exempt nonprofit [42:52] organization. [42:53] Imagine. [42:55] Thanks to a courageous FBI agent who happened to be on the scene, [42:58] the Department of Justice was impelled to bring charges. [43:02] Unfortunately, our justice system gave them only a slap [43:05] on the wrist. [43:06] I think we should all be able to agree that throwing [43:09] an explosive at a group of people [43:11] is no mere minor indiscretion. [43:13] That is a very serious crime. [43:14] That's attempted murder, the kind of crime [43:16] that merits life in prison. [43:19] Instead, our justice system sentenced Brian DePippa [43:22] to minimal jail time for obstructing crime. [43:25] He was sentenced to two years in prison for obstructing law enforcement. [43:30] His wife got off with probation. [43:32] The federal government must act now to stop the consistent [43:35] and accelerating trend of leftist terrorism. [43:39] For a legislator to deny the threat and neglect the remedy [43:43] might once have been chalked up to ignorance, [43:45] today it is nothing less than complicity. [43:51] Thank you. [43:57] Thank you. [43:58] Mr. Chairman, I'd like to introduce the next witness. [44:01] Daniel Hodges was born in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, [44:04] studied at George Mason University. [44:05] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [44:05] Currently studying at the University of Virginia. [44:08] Joined the Virginia National Guard in 2012 [44:10] and was honorably discharged after a six-year contract. [44:14] He joined the Metropolitan Police Department in 2014 [44:17] and has served the city of Washington, D.C. [44:19] as a police officer since earning awards, [44:22] since earning awards, citations, and commendations. [44:26] On January the 6th, 2021, Officer Hodges responded [44:30] with his colleagues to the U.S. Capitol [44:33] to help defend against the mob who was attempting [44:35] to stop the transfer of power. [44:36] Officer Hodges was injured during the attack, [44:40] but returned to full duty weeks later. [44:42] In 2022, he testified before the House Select Committee [44:45] to investigate the January 6th attack [44:48] and has since been honored with the Presidential Citizens Medal [44:50] by President Joe Biden for his heroic service [44:53] to the nation during the assault on the Capitol. [44:55] Thank you, Mr. Hodges. [44:59] Thank you. [45:00] I'm speaking in my personal capacity. [45:02] However, I draw upon my experiences as one [45:04] of the few police officers in this country [45:06] who has policed both the protests and riots of 2020 as well [45:09] as the insurrection of January 6th, 2021. [45:12] I am intimately familiar with political violence [45:15] as when I fought to defend the United States Capitol [45:17] and many of your very lives. [45:19] I was beaten, bloodied, crushed with my eye gouged [45:22] and my skull smashed with my own baton. [45:26] Political violence is a worthy topic for discussion. [45:29] However, the press release I saw [45:30] from the subcommittee chair made it clear this was not going [45:33] to be an honest consideration of various causes and effects, [45:37] but rather a ham-fisted attempt [45:38] to propagate the unsupported notion that liberal ideology, [45:41] is the greatest origin of modern political violence. [45:44] This is particularly galling to me since every single member [45:47] of the majority on the subcommittee has either [45:49] contributed to one of the most infamous examples [45:51] of conservative political violence of our age [45:53] or the protection of its perpetrators. [45:56] Every majority member who could do so voted [45:58] to acquit Donald Trump during a second impeachment [46:00] and now we find ourselves in a new horrific age [46:03] of political violence. [46:04] One word is carried out by the state itself. [46:07] A permanent resident was arrested without a warrant [46:09] and is being threatened with deportation simply [46:11] for his politics. [46:12] A Tennessee man was arrested and is being held [46:14] on $2 million bail for sharing a Trump meme on social media. [46:19] Members of Congress have been denied access to ICE facilities [46:22] despite the law granting them unannounced oversight rights. [46:25] These detentions and prohibitions are all grounded [46:28] in the threat of deadly force and violence, are absurd [46:30] or outright illegal, and politically motivated [46:33] by right-wing ideology. [46:35] The fact that these actions are carried out by agents [46:37] of the state doesn't make them acceptable, [46:39] it makes them far worse. [46:41] The current administration is doing whatever it can [46:43] to downplay the threat that right-wing violence presents [46:46] to the United States, including literally erasing data. [46:50] Between September 12th and the 13th of this year, [46:52] the Department of Justice deleted their own study [46:54] from their website, which came to the conclusion [46:56] that right-wing extremism poses a much greater threat [46:59] than left-wing extremism. [47:01] I quote now the opening paragraph [47:02] of this National Institute of Justice report published [47:05] just last year, quote, militant, nationalistic, [47:09] white supremacist violent extremism has increased [47:12] in the United States. [47:13] In fact, the number [47:14] of violent attacks continues to outpace all other types [47:17] of terrorism and domestic violence extremism. [47:20] Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more [47:23] ideologically motivated homicides than far-left [47:26] or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took [47:30] more than 520 lives. [47:33] In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 [47:36] ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives. [47:40] A recent threat assessment by the U.S. Department [47:42] of Homeland Security concluded [47:43] that domestic violent extremists are an equivalent [47:45] to an acute threat and highlighted a probability [47:48] that COVID-19 pandemic-related stressors, [47:50] long-standing ideological grievances related to immigration [47:53] and narratives surrounding electoral fraud will continue [47:56] to serve as a justification for violent actions. [48:01] There will always be those who seek [48:02] to further their own political agenda [48:03] through extra-legal violence, [48:05] and that is what law enforcement is for. [48:07] But to reduce the risk of the population at large [48:10] from falling into radicalization, [48:12] the solution is simple. [48:13] It's unfettered democracy. [48:15] One of democracy's greatest assets is how, [48:17] when unsullied, it provides a mechanism for everyone [48:20] to have their voice heard. [48:22] And when people believe their government speaks for them [48:24] in some manner, they are less apt to seek violent means [48:26] to accomplish their political agendas. [48:28] So make voting easier, not harder. [48:32] Stop gerrymandering people into oblivion. [48:35] Stand on the strength of your ideals, [48:36] not the depth of your donors' pockets. [48:39] Stop shopping for judges and start seeking ideas [48:41] that withstand scrutiny from any political ideology. [48:44] When you tell the people that an election was stolen from them, [48:46] they will take up arms against their neighbors without a shred [48:49] of evidence, I know. [48:52] But if you tell them brilliant political rhetoric [48:54] is their birthright and civic engagement is their privilege, [48:57] they'll instead take up the book and the pen, [48:59] and we'll all be richer for it. [49:01] And when you, just so you know, [49:03] that this is the helmet that U.S. Capitol Police Officer [49:08] Brian Sicknick wore on January 6th, 2021, [49:11] and he died the following day. [49:15] We just, the family member just got back that, [49:17] just got back that today. [49:19] Thank you. [49:20] Thank you, thank you for your service. [49:22] Next up is Kyle Scheidler. [49:24] He is the Director and Senior Analyst for Homeland Security [49:27] and Counterterrorism at the Center for Security Policy, [49:30] where he conducts research and analysis on domestic threats [49:33] to the U.S. homeland and an emphasis on the doctrines [49:36] which fuel terrorism and shape the variety of kinetic [49:39] and non-kinetic threats to America's security. [49:42] He's briefed senior U.S. government officials, [49:43] members of Congress, federal, state, [49:45] and local law enforcement officers, [49:47] and testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Subcommittee [49:50] on the Constitution and the Canadian State Senate, [49:54] the Canadian Senate Standing Committee [49:56] on National Security and Defense. [49:59] He is the author of Understanding Black Identity Extremism, [50:03] Considerations for Law Enforcement, [50:05] and editor of Unmasking Antifa, [50:06] Five Perspectives on a Growing Threat, [50:09] and a contributing author to Saudi Arabia [50:11] and the Global Islamic Terrorist Network. [50:14] His writing has appeared at The Federalist, [50:16] The Hill, foxnews.com, [50:18] and the Claremont Review of Books, amongst others. [50:21] He's a graduate of Boston University and a Lincoln Fellow [50:24] with the Claremont Institute. [50:25] The floor is yours. [50:29] Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Welch, [50:31] distinguished senators. [50:33] I would like to thank you for the invitation to testify today [50:35] about the threat our country faces [50:37] from growing political violence. [50:39] In my capacity at the Center for Security Policy, [50:42] one of the things I am most proud of is our program [50:44] to provide educational briefings to law enforcement officers [50:47] at the federal, state, and local levels. [50:50] And for the five years of this program's operation, [50:52] the number one most requested briefing topic [50:55] that we have been asked to provide [50:57] has been on the topic of Antifa [50:59] and related left-wing extremist groups. [51:02] The reason it has been the most requested topic [51:04] is not because, contrary to media reports, [51:07] Antifa does not exist. [51:09] America's law enforcement knows it exists [51:11] because they see the effects every day. [51:13] The reason it is the most requested topic [51:16] is because they cannot get accurate [51:17] and quality information about the threat. [51:20] Until recently, the federal government [51:22] has failed to define the extensive nature of this threat [51:26] and has demonstrated a history [51:27] of dismissing or reducing charges [51:30] against left-wing extremists. [51:32] But despite this failing, [51:33] we have seen convictions for acts of political violence [51:36] by Antifa members who were identified by as such. [51:40] In 2021, officers and citizens were injured [51:43] in a violent, pre-planned riot carried out by Antifa. [51:46] The San Diego District Attorney [51:48] successfully secured convictions [51:49] against 11 Antifa members, [51:51] including on charges of conspiracy to riot. [51:54] In 2023, the state of Florida [51:56] successfully sued Antifa members [51:58] under the FACE Act, [51:59] securing civil fines and felony pleas [52:02] for their attack on pregnancy crisis centers. [52:04] This is just one case, [52:05] but in the five months after the Dobbs decision was leaked, [52:08] more than 100 churches, pregnancy resource centers, [52:11] and pro-life organizations across the country were attacked. [52:15] Mr. Knowles has already mentioned the case [52:17] against Brian De Pippa [52:19] and the federal government's guilty plea, [52:21] but I think it is worth adding [52:23] that Mr. De Pippa was also the web creator [52:25] for It's Going Down, [52:27] an Antifa website [52:28] which has for years published [52:30] both ideological manifestos [52:32] and tactical instructions for aspiring Antifa members, [52:36] including a 2007 Forming an Antifa Group manual, [52:39] which I first brought to the attention of this committee [52:41] when I testified before it in August of 2020. [52:45] But what is Antifa? [52:47] Well, as a recent Department of Justice indictment [52:49] accurately describes, quote, [52:51] Antifa is a militant enterprise [52:53] made up of networks of individuals and small groups [52:55] ascribing to a revolutionary anarchist [52:57] or autonomous Marxist ideology, [52:59] which explicitly calls for the overthrow [53:01] of the United States government, [53:02] law enforcement authorities, and system of law. [53:05] Antifa adherents have espoused insurrection [53:07] and advocated violence to affect the policy [53:10] and conduct of the U.S. government [53:11] by intimidation and coercion. [53:13] That's a good, working definition, [53:15] which would bring U.S. law enforcement into line [53:18] with the definitions which are utilized [53:19] by other Western governments, [53:21] which also have an Antifa threat [53:23] that would include Germany and Sweden. [53:26] These networks of small, direct action groups are connected. [53:29] Through ideologically aligned organizations, [53:32] online platforms, and support networks, [53:34] which provide significant amounts of material support. [53:37] But much of this material support [53:39] is in the form of services [53:40] rather than financial transactions. [53:42] One example, the website Abolition Media [53:45] posts communiques from the PFLP, the ELN, [53:49] the PKK, and the MPA, [53:51] all of them designated communist terror groups. [53:54] That alone is actionable material support for terrorism. [53:57] But it also posts claims of responsibility for anarchists, [53:59] arson attacks, and propaganda on behalf of Antifa members [54:03] currently in prison for violent attacks [54:05] in the United States, Germany, Chile, Greece, and Hungary. [54:09] The site distributes calls for actions [54:11] and organizes efforts for Antifa groups [54:12] across international borders, [54:14] and even posted an anarchist manual discussing the value of, [54:17] and I quote, complex coordinated terrorist attacks. [54:21] If this site were promoting and advocating violence [54:23] for Al-Qaeda, there would be absolutely no question [54:26] in the minds of U.S. authorities [54:27] that it serves as a media arm for a terrorist organization. [54:30] According to a recent article by journalist Hudson Crozier, [54:33] Abolition Media is just one of 100 such websites [54:36] hosted on NoBlogs, a blogging suite provided [54:39] by the Italy-based Autisticae Inventae Collective, [54:42] which provides websites, emails, digital encryption tools [54:44] to Antifa and related left-wing extremist groups, [54:47] all while hiding their personal data from law enforcement. [54:50] Very similarly, the International Antifa Defense Fund [54:53] has distributed over a quarter of a million dollars [54:54] to 800 Antifa members across 26 countries, [54:58] including not just for legal support, [55:00] but up to $1.5 billion. [55:01] Up to 20% has gone to security improvements [55:03] and emergency relocation costs for Antifa members. [55:07] It would be a reasonable avenue of investigation [55:09] to determine if funds have gone [55:10] to help fugitive Antifa members avoid arrest. [55:15] I look forward to working with the committee [55:16] on ways U.S. policy and legislation [55:18] might address the threat posed by Antifa [55:20] and related left-wing extremist groups. [55:23] Thank you. [55:23] The chair will recognize a ranking member [55:25] of the Judiciary Committee, [55:26] Senator Durbin, for his opening remarks. [55:29] I thank Senator Schmidt for that courtesy. [55:31] At the outset, [55:33] I recognize law enforcement who are here today, [55:35] including those who defended the U.S. Capitol [55:38] on January 6, 2021, [55:40] and the family members of those who are no longer with us. [55:43] Ken Sicknick, brother of fallen officer Brian Sicknick, [55:47] is here. [55:48] He reminds us, and I quote, [55:50] the simple act of not letting the events of that day [55:52] be whitewashed, revised, or forgotten [55:56] is more important than anyone can ever know. [55:59] That statement by Mr. Sicknick rings true, [56:02] painfully true today. [56:04] This hearing examines [56:06] a critical issue, [56:07] political violence in America. [56:10] I've said before, over and over, [56:12] from this podium, and will repeat, [56:14] violence is not acceptable whatever the source or origin. [56:18] I do not believe that one party owns the right to say [56:23] it's the other party's fault. [56:25] It is the fault of both parties in differing degrees, [56:29] and it's our fault if we try to whitewash that reality. [56:34] To seriously address this problem, [56:36] we must start with the facts, not with partisan, [56:44] political conclusions. [56:46] To claim, as the chairman of the subcommittee has, [56:49] and I quote, [56:50] political violence comes predominantly [56:52] from one side of the aisle, [56:54] and don't give me this both sides BS, [56:57] is not supported by the facts. [56:59] In fact, those facts tell a different story. [57:02] For more than a decade, [57:04] for more than a decade, [57:06] data from the FBI, DHS, and nonpartisan experts [57:10] show that far-right extremists have been responsible [57:13] for most domestic terrorism, [57:15] including most deaths by far. [57:18] Let me start, but you can see behind me, [57:21] from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, [57:24] also known as CSIS. [57:26] Terrorist attacks from the right are in red, [57:28] and attacks from the left are in blue. [57:30] CSIS found that since 2016, [57:35] 112 people have been killed as a result of right-wing attacks, [57:39] while three have died as a result of left-wing attacks. [57:43] These are not partisan talking points. [57:46] They are the facts established by federal law enforcement [57:49] and national security experts across numerous administrations, [57:54] both Democratic and Republican. [57:57] Indeed, one of today's majority witnesses, [57:59] Mr. Chad Wolf, in his confirmation hearing before Congress, [58:03] acting DHS secretary during President Trump's first term, [58:08] testified, and I quote, [58:10] White supremacist extremists, [58:13] from a lethality standpoint over the last two years, [58:16] are certainly the most persistent and lethal threat [58:20] when we talk about [58:20] domestic violent extremists. [58:23] Far-right extremists were responsible for the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol. [58:28] I lived through it. [58:30] And they've been responsible for a string of hate-fueled massacres [58:34] targeting ethnic and religious minority communities, [58:37] including the 2012 Gurdwara shooting in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, [58:42] targeting Sikh Americans, killing seven. [58:45] The 2015 Mother Emanuel AME church shooting in Charleston, [58:49] targeting Black Americans, killing nine. [58:52] The 2018 Tree of Life synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, [58:55] targeting Jewish Americans, killing 11. [58:59] The 2019 Walmart shooting in El Paso, [59:02] targeting Latino Americans, killing 22. [59:06] And the 2022 Tops supermarket shooting in Buffalo, [59:09] targeting Black Americans, killing 10. [59:13] Political violence has continued to rock the nation in recent months, [59:16] from the assassination of Mr. Kirk [59:18] to the assassinations of Minnesota House Speaker Emerita [59:22] Melissa Hartman and her husband, and the attempted assassination of Mr. Clark. [59:23] from the assassination of Mr. Clark to the assassinations of Minnesota House Speaker Emerita, Melissa Hartman and her husband, and the attempted assassination of Mr. Clark. [59:24] assassination of Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman and his wife. [59:29] Just last week, a man was arrested after allegedly offering $45,000 for the killing of Attorney [59:35] General Pam Bondi. [59:37] And a January 6th rioter, who was pardoned by President Trump, full and unconditional [59:43] pardon, was arrested for allegedly threatening to kill the House Democratic leader, Hakeem [59:48] Jeffries. [59:49] I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's no room for political violence in [59:53] America ever, ever, not from the right or from the left. [59:58] I'm deeply concerned by the Trump administration's response to the political violence crisis. [1:00:03] On the one hand, the administration is threatening a crackdown on constitutionally protected [1:00:07] speech based on false claims that in the words of Stephen Miller, the words of Stephen Miller, [1:00:13] there is quote, a vast domestic terror movement on the left. [1:00:18] At the same time, the administration is gutting programs that have proven effective in combating [1:00:22] domestic terrorism. [1:00:24] For example, the administration is threatening to kill the House Democratic leader, Hakeem [1:00:24] Jeffries. [1:00:25] On the other hand, the administration has slashed the budget of DHS's Center for Prevention [1:00:29] Programs and Partnerships by more than 30 percent, cut the center's staff by 80 employees [1:00:35] to fewer than 20, and appointed a 22-year-old Trump campaign official to run the center. [1:00:42] We honor our Constitution and serve our country not by rewriting history or weaponizing tragedy, [1:00:48] but by telling the truth, even when it's uncomfortable, because democracy cannot survive selective [1:00:54] outrage or deliberate amnesia. [1:00:56] To the officers and families here today and watching at home, we will never forget January [1:01:02] 6th. [1:01:03] Our duty is to protect the truth, to defend the rule of law, and to be an American that [1:01:07] rejects violence in every form. [1:01:09] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:10] Thank you, Senator. [1:01:11] I want to point out that the CSIS study that's been mentioned here and repeated ad nauseum [1:01:18] excluded violence at protests from their study, allowing them to systematically ignore Antifa [1:01:24] and Black Lives Matter riots. [1:01:25] But they did make an exception. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:26] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:28] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:29] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:01:29] Even using their flawed methodology, CSIS recently reported that left-wing violence in 2025 outpaces [1:01:35] right-wing violence. [1:01:36] Imagine how much bigger that disparity would be if they actually weren't cooking the books. [1:01:40] So without objection, I move to enter into the record an article by Tim Carney explaining [1:01:44] CIS's biased methodology. [1:01:47] Without objection, it will be entered into the record. [1:01:49] We'll start with questionings. [1:01:51] Mr. Knowles, I want to start with you. [1:01:53] You're not going to have any bigger proponent of free speech than me. [1:01:58] given especially what I did in my last job, and this one I believe in it wholeheartedly. [1:02:02] I think the First Amendment is the beating heart of our Constitution. [1:02:05] But what we're really talking about here is conduct, of course, violent conduct. [1:02:10] And you've talked about you can't really have this competition in the marketplace [1:02:14] if the marketplace is being destroyed and shot up in many instances. [1:02:19] How do we get at this problem? What's the road forward in your view? [1:02:25] We might be able to find a little bipartisan agreement [1:02:27] if we acknowledge something that both parties at different times have acknowledged, [1:02:31] which is that marketplaces of ideas or any other kind of marketplace [1:02:34] only function when there are rules and when we abide by those rules. [1:02:39] You can't have a marketplace if bandits keep shooting up the marketplace. [1:02:43] And this is why it's so important to identify where the threats to the marketplace [1:02:47] have really been coming from. [1:02:48] Have we seen left-wing speakers shouted down on campuses? [1:02:52] Have we seen left-wing events interrupted by terrorists? [1:02:57] Right. [1:02:57] Rarely so, if ever. I can't think of an occasion. [1:03:01] I am amused that Senator Durbin began by warning against pointing to one side or the other, [1:03:08] making this a partisan issue, [1:03:09] before beginning one of the most partisan invectives that I have ever heard. [1:03:14] But I'm not even opposed to a partisan invective here [1:03:16] because I think it is very important that we identify where the threats are. [1:03:20] I think any honest Democrat, even, would have to acknowledge, [1:03:24] as The Atlantic Magazine did, as even CSIS has acknowledged, [1:03:27] that the threats today to the free marketplace of ideas come from the left. [1:03:31] And so, in order to restore the open marketplace of ideas, [1:03:35] the healthy exchange of ideas, essential to our self-government, [1:03:39] we must regulate where the problem is. [1:03:42] And today, the problem lies on the left. [1:03:43] Thank you. Mr. Wolf, I want to ask you, and thank you for your service, [1:03:48] a common refrain is that Antifa is an ideology, not an organization. [1:03:54] Could you talk about, in your experience, how that is, [1:03:57] complete and utter nonsense, [1:03:59] that this is actually a pretty well-coordinated organization [1:04:01] with safe houses and money that's laundered internationally, quite frankly, [1:04:06] not just domestically? [1:04:07] Yeah, well, I think we've seen that across the country. [1:04:09] I think the indictment by the Department of Justice in Texas [1:04:13] talks about the Antifa cell there in North Texas, [1:04:15] about how they do coordinate, how they do pool their resources. [1:04:20] I saw it firsthand in Portland, [1:04:22] although it was very difficult to prove at the time. [1:04:25] Those types of... [1:04:27] Anarchists and others there being well-organized, being well-funded, [1:04:32] being resupplied daily, [1:04:34] not that they were doing that themselves, but that they had help. [1:04:38] And so as you look across the spectrum here, [1:04:41] is Antifa like other organizations? [1:04:43] Does it have a hierarchy and an org chart and everything else? [1:04:46] No, it's very different. [1:04:47] But that doesn't make it any less dangerous. [1:04:49] That doesn't say... [1:04:50] And that shouldn't mean, from a law enforcement perspective, [1:04:52] well, let's not actually investigate. [1:04:55] Let's not actually start to look at who these individuals are [1:04:57] or how they're organized, how they're funded, how they're financed. [1:05:01] Just because they're decentralized doesn't make them any less threatening. [1:05:05] Thank you. [1:05:06] Mr. Scheidler, I'm going to go to you and pick up on that point [1:05:08] because you alluded to it in your testimony. [1:05:11] Understanding what Antifa is and its connections and organization, [1:05:16] what are some suggestions you might have [1:05:19] of how we could get at this problem of this radical organization [1:05:23] held then on destroying America? [1:05:25] I mean, this is their stated mission. [1:05:27] How do we get about that? [1:05:28] Well, I'm a firm supporter of the president's recommendation [1:05:33] to target Antifa as a foreign terrorist organization. [1:05:35] There are a number of Antifa organizations [1:05:37] that operate across Western Europe and Latin America, [1:05:40] which we would be justified in designating [1:05:43] as a foreign terrorist organization. [1:05:46] There are also a number of networks [1:05:48] which provide material support, [1:05:50] including the one that I mentioned in my testimony. [1:05:52] And that is a very common method in which Antifa receives support. [1:05:57] Much like, for example, [1:05:59] as a foreign terrorist organization, [1:05:59] the Islamic State or Al-Qaeda, [1:06:00] where they host media outlets like Dabiq and Inspire, [1:06:04] which will give you both ideological instructions [1:06:08] as to how to become Antifa, [1:06:11] what you need to believe and how you need to believe it. [1:06:13] They also provide instructions on what you should do [1:06:16] if you wish to be Antifa, [1:06:18] including how you should organize, [1:06:19] how you can avoid arrest, [1:06:21] what encrypted apps to use, [1:06:23] what websites to use. [1:06:25] They also provide instructions [1:06:26] on how to destroy critical infrastructure, [1:06:28] including 5G, [1:06:29] wireless communications, [1:06:31] and how to derail trains. [1:06:33] As, for example, the website It's Going Down did [1:06:36] in a case that was related to two anarchists [1:06:39] in the Pacific Northwest that derailed a number of trains [1:06:41] in which the federal government received, [1:06:43] was able to achieve a conviction. [1:06:45] So, these networks can be targeted [1:06:50] for engaging in material support for terrorism. [1:06:52] We are not talking about speech. [1:06:54] We are talking about manifestos describing [1:06:57] how to overthrow the government [1:06:58] and how to do that within the government. [1:07:00] We are not talking about violence. [1:07:01] Thank you. [1:07:02] And President Trump has designated Antifa [1:07:04] as a domestic terrorist organization. [1:07:06] And I've written to Secretary Rubio [1:07:08] for the International Foreign Terrorist Organization [1:07:11] and we'll see what happens with that. [1:07:13] Ranking Member Welch. [1:07:17] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [1:07:19] I want to ask Mr. Hodges, [1:07:21] you were here in duty, in uniform on January 6th. [1:07:27] Can you tell us just what you went through [1:07:30] and what the size of the crowd was? [1:07:32] What was it that was attacking the Capitol? [1:07:38] Certainly. [1:07:39] I'll try to be brief. [1:07:40] It was a very long day. [1:07:42] It started at 7 in the morning on Constitution Avenue. [1:07:45] Everyone filed into the Ellipse [1:07:47] to hear Trump give his rally, so to speak. [1:07:50] And then afterwards they started heading back [1:07:54] up Constitution Avenue towards the Capitol. [1:07:58] I heard on my radio that they discovered bombs. [1:08:04] I heard on my radio that the Capitol [1:08:06] was being under attack. [1:08:08] The commander who was on scene at the Capitol [1:08:10] was getting overwhelmed and called for my platoon [1:08:13] to reinforce them, so we did. [1:08:15] We got on our pads, made our way down to the Capitol. [1:08:19] So you went to where the trouble was? [1:08:21] Correct, yes. [1:08:22] We got as far as the edge of the western property, [1:08:27] but the crowd was so dense, you know, [1:08:29] we couldn't get any closer than that in a vehicle. [1:08:31] So we got out on foot, started making our way [1:08:34] towards the western terrace itself. [1:08:36] While we were walking through the crowd, [1:08:38] all of Trump's supporters, Trump flags, Trump gear, [1:08:41] they started yelling at us, calling us stormtroopers, [1:08:45] telling us to remember our oaths, calling us traitors. [1:08:48] And we hadn't done anything yet. [1:08:51] You were uniformed officers, right? [1:08:54] Yes. [1:08:55] No mask. [1:08:56] Correct. [1:08:57] And you were insulted with those terms. [1:08:59] Yes, stormtroopers, to remember our oaths, [1:09:03] all that nonsense. [1:09:05] And then eventually when we were making our way [1:09:07] through the crowd, we were attacked, [1:09:09] cut off from our leadership. [1:09:11] I was hit over the head from behind, lurched forward, [1:09:14] and someone tried to steal my baton. [1:09:16] I was able to retain my weapon, [1:09:19] and I tried to forge a path through the crowd. [1:09:22] Unfortunately, I looked back and saw that the rest [1:09:25] of my colleagues were under attack from more of the mob. [1:09:29] I went back to try and I succeeded in pulling some [1:09:31] of the assailants off my colleagues [1:09:33] until I was attacked again. [1:09:35] Someone tried to steal my baton again. [1:09:37] I was insulted for control, went to the ground with it. [1:09:40] He kicked me in the chest. [1:09:42] I went to my hands and knees, and the medical mask I was [1:09:45] wearing at the time got pulled up over my eyes, [1:09:47] so I was blind, surrounded by the mob. [1:09:49] But thankfully, my colleagues were able to free themselves [1:09:52] from their attackers and came to my defense. [1:09:54] I got up, and I forged another path through the crowd. [1:09:58] There was chaotic explosions going off, smoke grenades, [1:10:04] bike rack barriers being broken down into poles [1:10:06] to use as weapons. [1:10:08] Eventually, we made our way to the West Terrace itself, [1:10:13] where a police line was being held. [1:10:15] We joined the defense there, where we held the line [1:10:18] as long as we could. [1:10:20] Unfortunately, we were comically outnumbered, [1:10:23] 150, 175 officers to I think it was like 10,000 insurrectionists. [1:10:29] I remember looking out over the crowd, [1:10:33] and I couldn't see the end of it. [1:10:35] I couldn't see the end of their numbers. [1:10:37] And they broke through. [1:10:39] They, about three or four of them attacked me, [1:10:42] pushed me into a waist-high barrier. [1:10:45] One of them reached underneath my visor, [1:10:47] gripped my face with his hand, and tried to gouge out my eye [1:10:52] with his thumb. [1:10:53] I was able to shake him off before any permanent damage [1:10:56] was done. [1:10:57] But we lost the line. [1:11:00] We had to fall back to the building itself, [1:11:04] and that's what we did. [1:11:06] Thank you very much. [1:11:08] And I understand that the brother of Officer Seskic [1:11:10] is here. [1:11:11] I just want to acknowledge him. [1:11:13] He's the officer who died, [1:11:14] one of your fellow Capitol Police officers. [1:11:16] I want to ask a question of the panel. [1:11:18] As you know, everybody who was involved and convicted [1:11:21] was pardoned. [1:11:23] Raise your hand if you believe that those pardons [1:11:25] were appropriate. [1:11:30] All right, so that includes pardons for folks [1:11:32] who were involved in attacking Officer Hodges. [1:11:36] It does. [1:11:42] You know, Mr. Chairman, I have to say... [1:11:44] Are we being invited to speak? [1:11:47] Pardon me? [1:11:48] Was that an invitation to speak? [1:11:49] No. [1:11:50] Oh, understood. [1:11:51] It was not. [1:11:52] I mean, but you said and I said, [1:11:55] and I agree with you, [1:11:56] political violence is to be condemned, [1:11:58] whether it's on the right or the left. [1:12:00] I mean, we just heard a pretty frightening description [1:12:07] of political violence on a sustained basis [1:12:10] against this Capitol Police officer, [1:12:14] and there's a view that he should be pardoned. [1:12:16] I guess I'll just say I disagree with that. [1:12:19] I yield back. [1:12:21] Senator Cornyn. [1:12:24] Thank you for being here. [1:12:26] I'm glad at least we can agree on one thing, [1:12:30] that political violence is unacceptable, [1:12:35] no matter where it comes from. [1:12:38] But I want to talk about the leadership [1:12:40] and what some leaders have said, [1:12:44] which I believe has contributed to that political violence. [1:12:50] In 2018, when Nancy Pelosi was asked about policies [1:12:55] she disagreed with, instead of saying she would do her job [1:12:58] and legislate or try to persuade people to the contrary, [1:13:01] she replied, [1:13:02] I just don't even know why there aren't uprisings [1:13:05] all over the country. [1:13:07] And maybe there will be. [1:13:10] About that same time Kamala Harris was asked [1:13:13] about being stuck in an elevator [1:13:15] with President Trump, Mike Pence and Jeff Sessions. [1:13:18] And she replied while laughing, [1:13:20] does one of us have to come out alive? [1:13:24] And then there's this. [1:13:27] In March 2020, [1:13:32] the majority leader of the United States Senate, [1:13:35] Chuck Schumer, [1:13:37] said about Supreme Court justices the following, [1:13:39] I want to tell you, [1:13:40] Gorsuch, [1:13:41] I want to tell you, [1:13:43] Kavanaugh, [1:13:44] you have released the whirlwind [1:13:46] and you will pay the price. [1:13:49] You won't know what hit you. [1:13:52] In August 2020, [1:13:56] Representative Ayanna Pressley said [1:13:58] there needs to be unrest in the street, [1:14:00] encouraging rioters. [1:14:03] Then Maxine Waters said in 2021 [1:14:08] that democratic rioters should, [1:14:13] quote, [1:14:14] get more confrontational, [1:14:15] close quote, [1:14:16] with police. [1:14:17] She said, [1:14:19] if you see anybody from Trump's cabinet [1:14:21] at a restaurant, [1:14:22] in a department store, [1:14:23] at a gas station, [1:14:24] you get out and create a crowd [1:14:26] and you push back on them [1:14:28] and you tell them they're not welcome anymore, [1:14:32] anywhere. [1:14:33] And then in 2023, [1:14:37] delegate Stacey Plaskett said on MSNBC [1:14:40] that President Trump needs to be shot. [1:14:46] In 2024, [1:14:47] President Biden told democratic donors [1:14:49] that it was time to put Trump, [1:14:51] this is the president of the United States, [1:14:53] told democratic donors [1:14:54] it was time to put Trump in the bull's eye. [1:14:58] And recently, [1:15:00] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez posted in an Instagram story [1:15:04] that people should resist ICE. [1:15:08] And then Jasmine Crockett, [1:15:12] a member of the House of Representatives [1:15:14] from the state of Texas. [1:15:16] Kayla Hamilton was a young woman [1:15:22] who was sexually assaulted [1:15:23] and strangled to death by an illegal alien, [1:15:26] an MS-13 member. [1:15:27] I lead a bill named in her honor [1:15:31] here in the Senate. [1:15:32] Representative Jasmine Crockett called Kayla Hamilton [1:15:36] a quote, [1:15:37] random dead person. [1:15:39] We've talked about the person, [1:15:44] the would-be assassin [1:15:45] that was going to kill Justice Kavanaugh. [1:15:48] And of course, [1:15:50] the assassination attempts on President Trump. [1:15:53] Does everybody on the panel feel like the, [1:15:57] or believe that the individuals [1:15:59] who actually commit acts of violence [1:16:02] should be held accountable? [1:16:03] Would you raise your hand? [1:16:05] So we agree, [1:16:08] acts of political violence are unacceptable [1:16:12] and the individual who commits those acts [1:16:15] should be held accountable. [1:16:19] But I want to talk about the political leadership [1:16:27] that I think has a greater responsibility. [1:16:31] People who serve as the elected representatives [1:16:33] of the American people. [1:16:34] Is there anybody believe that [1:16:37] they bear no responsibility [1:16:42] for inciting or encouraging acts of violence? [1:16:46] Well, we've always had, [1:16:52] in our course of our nation's history, [1:16:54] people who are ideological, [1:16:56] politically driven to violence. [1:16:59] Anarchists, [1:17:01] maybe the modern, [1:17:02] the historical antecedent of Antifa. [1:17:06] People motivated by ideological reasons. [1:17:09] But I believe that leaders elected to Congress [1:17:15] should not say or do things [1:17:19] which suggest that political violence is acceptable. [1:17:23] And the examples I read to you just now, [1:17:26] I think, [1:17:27] should be condemned. [1:17:32] Thank you. Thank you, Senator. [1:17:33] Senator Durbin. [1:17:35] Thanks, Mr. Chairman. [1:17:37] Mr. Braniff, [1:17:38] you previously served as director [1:17:39] of the Center for Prevention Programs and Partnerships, [1:17:43] or CP3 at DHS, [1:17:45] an initiative created under the Biden administration [1:17:48] to take a comprehensive approach [1:17:49] to combating domestic violent extremism. [1:17:52] CP3 prioritized public and community health programming [1:17:55] to identify people before they commit acts of violence [1:17:59] in coordination with federal, state, and local law enforcement. [1:18:02] In your experience, [1:18:03] how have these investments in public health [1:18:05] led to identifying at-risk individuals [1:18:07] and stopping violent acts before they occur? [1:18:09] Thank you, Senator. [1:18:13] I'm actually perhaps the one person [1:18:16] who has something to offer in terms of solutions today. [1:18:20] And I'm really excited to talk about that. [1:18:23] At CP3, [1:18:24] we learned from the violence prevention community, [1:18:27] the same people who for 30 to 40 years [1:18:29] have been studying suicide prevention [1:18:30] and violence against children prevention, [1:18:32] intimate partner violence prevention. [1:18:34] And we started to apply those methods [1:18:37] and that evidence to targeted violence prevention, [1:18:40] to try to prevent terrorism, hate crime, school shootings. [1:18:44] And the great thing about this approach [1:18:45] is that it's upstream, right? [1:18:47] Violence is a universal human phenomenon. [1:18:50] It just manifests differently. [1:18:52] When someone starts to struggle, [1:18:55] they might go answer-seeking online, [1:18:58] and they might fall down one rabbit hole [1:19:00] or they might fall down another rabbit hole. [1:19:02] And after time, [1:19:03] if whatever underlying crisis goes unaddressed, [1:19:06] they might decide that violence is a solution to their problems. [1:19:09] Sorry to interrupt you, [1:19:10] but we've heard allegations from both sides of the table [1:19:14] as to whether there's more violence on the right, [1:19:16] more violence on the left. [1:19:17] What I hear you saying is that certain persons [1:19:20] are predisposed toward... [1:19:24] No, no, Senator Rector. [1:19:25] Thank you for the question. [1:19:26] All of us have vulnerabilities, [1:19:28] and if those vulnerabilities go unaddressed, [1:19:30] we could wind up being manipulated [1:19:32] into engaging in violent extremism. [1:19:34] We did 1,172 interventions. [1:19:37] Think about that. [1:19:38] 1,172 interventions. [1:19:40] We did 1,172 interventions for individuals [1:19:42] who were exhibiting risks of violence. [1:19:43] They were making veiled threats of violence. [1:19:45] They were socially isolated. [1:19:48] And those interventions were across the ideological spectrum. [1:19:52] Some people were flirting with white supremacy. [1:19:54] Some people were flirting with anti-government extremism. [1:19:57] Some people were just flirting with violence for violence' sake. [1:20:00] The point is we didn't wait until something terrible happened [1:20:03] and then blame the ideology behind it. [1:20:05] We actually did a therapeutic intervention, [1:20:08] and in 94% of those interventions, [1:20:10] the individual got help, and there was no violence. [1:20:13] In 6%, they had made a threat to public safety that was imminent [1:20:16] or they had crossed a criminal threshold, [1:20:18] and they were referred to law enforcement. [1:20:20] So we supported those individuals, [1:20:22] averted nearly 1,200 potential acts of violence, [1:20:26] and never sacrificed public safety. [1:20:28] We have a solution that's cost-effective, [1:20:30] that does not violate civil rights, civil liberties, [1:20:33] and protects our Constitution, [1:20:35] and I would encourage us to look at that as a potential solution. [1:20:38] As you know, the Trump administration [1:20:40] recently cut the staff at CP3, which you worked with, [1:20:43] which led to your resignation. Is that true? [1:20:47] Senator, there is no more office at all. [1:20:49] The entire thing was dismantled. [1:20:51] The final two people left on September 11th and 12th. [1:20:53] So the prevention effort you're describing to us [1:20:56] is now no longer funded? [1:20:58] That is correct. [1:20:59] Are you concerned about the potential rise in attacks [1:21:01] that we may see with a similar level of inquiries [1:21:05] taking place under this administration? [1:21:07] Senator, I've given my life to protecting American people. [1:21:10] I'm incredibly worried about the rise [1:21:12] of targeted violence and terrorism [1:21:14] across the ideological spectrum [1:21:16] at the same time that we've dismantled [1:21:18] the very apparatus that can prevent it. [1:21:20] And we've seen 150% increase in fatalities [1:21:23] from terrorism last year to this year. [1:21:25] We've seen about a 70% increase in terrorist incidents [1:21:28] from last year to this year. [1:21:30] We've seen an increase of violence across the board, [1:21:33] and I would encourage us to think about investing [1:21:35] in prevention going forward because I know that it works. [1:21:38] An ounce of prevention is not enough. [1:21:40] It's an ounce of action, as they say. [1:21:42] Yes, Senator. [1:21:43] Well, I think that's an important lesson for us to take. [1:21:46] The Republican members of this committee believe they're right. [1:21:48] The Democrats believe they're right. [1:21:50] The American people want to see less violence. [1:21:52] I hope we all want to see less violence. [1:21:54] This is one agency with an agenda [1:21:57] directed toward reaching that goal, [1:21:59] and unfortunately, it's virtually been shut down. [1:22:02] If we're sincere about this on a bipartisan basis, [1:22:05] let's do something to revive that effort. [1:22:07] I yield. [1:22:08] Thank you. [1:22:10] Senator Lee. [1:22:13] Thank you very much. [1:22:14] Mr. Chairman, Mr. Knowles, [1:22:15] I'd like to start with you, if that's okay. [1:22:17] I hardly need to expand upon the violence [1:22:19] that has recently been committed on campuses across the country. [1:22:24] Most notably, and prominently of late, [1:22:27] Charlie Kirk was assassinated not too far from where I live, [1:22:32] in Utah, at Utah Valley University. [1:22:35] That assassination occurred amidst many of the developments [1:22:40] that you've referred to in your opening testimony, [1:22:43] and it arose in the country. [1:22:44] It arose in the context of a public debate [1:22:47] he was holding in a public forum, [1:22:49] specifically about some political issues. [1:22:51] Now, while that conversation, that investigation, [1:22:55] remain ongoing, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence [1:22:59] suggesting a political motivation for this attack. [1:23:04] Can you help this body understand the violent tendencies [1:23:08] inherent in some of these ideologies [1:23:10] that are prompting a lot of this violence? [1:23:12] I certainly can. [1:23:14] Thank you, Senator. [1:23:15] Charlie was probably the most prominent proponent [1:23:18] of civil and gracious dialogue in the entire country, [1:23:22] and they killed him for it, [1:23:24] because there is, in a certain type of left-wing ideology, [1:23:29] the belief that ideas don't really matter [1:23:32] and that we're really just warring groups [1:23:34] that must clobber each other over the head, [1:23:36] which is why you're seeing the increased violence there. [1:23:39] I think you saw this not only in the horrific assassination of Charlie, [1:23:43] but in the reaction to it. [1:23:45] I think you saw it in the actions that came afterward. [1:23:48] You know, as the scene was unfolding, [1:23:50] a Democrat analyst, Matthew Dowd, on MSNBC, [1:23:52] the left-wing cable outlet, blamed Charlie Kirk. [1:23:55] He said, quote, [1:23:56] hateful thoughts lead to hateful words, [1:23:58] which then lead to hateful actions. [1:24:00] The New York Times reacted by publishing [1:24:03] the assassination-related musings of Hasan Piker, [1:24:06] a prominent left-wing streamer [1:24:08] who has suggested the assassination of Senator Tom Cotton [1:24:11] and who has said, quote, of conservatives, [1:24:14] murder those mother effers, murder those mother effers in the street, [1:24:17] let the streets soak in their effing red capitalist blood. [1:24:20] I could go on and on with the reactions. [1:24:22] We all saw it. [1:24:23] And they're reflected in other public opinion surveys [1:24:26] relating to approval of violence. [1:24:28] So it would appear that this is not merely a matter [1:24:31] of some fringe actors, some extremists [1:24:33] who simply have an emotional problem, [1:24:35] as has been suggested here today. [1:24:37] This would seem to be clearly an ideological issue [1:24:41] at every level of the American left, [1:24:43] which needs to be addressed accordingly, [1:24:45] or else we're just twiddling our thumbs. [1:24:47] We are not doing anything to solve the problem. [1:24:50] Now, if those same things arose in the context [1:24:52] of someone in the right-of-center universe, [1:24:54] what would be the reaction? [1:24:56] Would there be a self-correction set in motion [1:24:59] as a result of the media response? [1:25:01] There is no question, Senator. [1:25:03] When I think of right-wing political violence, [1:25:05] the clearest example we can think of in recent memory [1:25:08] goes back about 30 years. [1:25:10] It was the Oklahoma City bombing. [1:25:12] And it was a little confusing, [1:25:14] but we could place it on the right. [1:25:16] What would happen after an attack like that? [1:25:18] It was universally, uniformly condemned on the right. [1:25:21] That is true any time there is some fringe attack, a shooting. [1:25:25] And yet, on the left, what happened after President Trump [1:25:28] came within 1 20th of an inch of being assassinated? [1:25:31] You saw jokes, you saw minimizations, [1:25:33] you saw comments throughout social media [1:25:35] saying maybe we'll get him next time. [1:25:37] What happened after Charlie's assassination? [1:25:39] We could be here all day reading the excuses, [1:25:41] and the celebrations from normal [1:25:43] and even mainstream figures on the left. [1:25:45] There is no equivalence whatsoever [1:25:47] if we're to solve the problem. [1:25:49] We have to acknowledge that. [1:25:51] There are a few tells that go along with it, [1:25:53] perhaps without some of these people realizing it. [1:25:56] Every time someone refers to a conservative, [1:25:59] it's always far right. [1:26:01] I don't ever hear the same publications [1:26:04] using the term far left [1:26:06] to describe someone who believes deeply [1:26:08] and fairly consistently in the political ideology [1:26:11] of the Democratic Party. [1:26:13] But far right is the consistent mantra [1:26:15] going the other direction. [1:26:17] It almost seems like an homage to Ad Hitlerum [1:26:20] and the frequent invocation of Ad Hitlerum attacks [1:26:24] tend to prompt other Operation Valkyrie moments. [1:26:28] And perhaps that's some of what's behind [1:26:31] the 55% figure that you referred to earlier. [1:26:35] Now, you are someone who gets around a lot of college campuses. [1:26:39] You do a lot of public speaking. [1:26:41] How has this impacted you personally? [1:26:44] And what measures have you had to take, [1:26:46] if you're comfortable sharing some of that with us, [1:26:49] to ensure your own personal safety [1:26:51] when all this is happening? [1:26:52] We have dramatically had to increase security, of course. [1:26:55] And, you know, there is appropriate concern, [1:26:59] the kind of concern that one would never have on the left [1:27:01] because they don't face any threats on college campuses. [1:27:04] College campuses are key, though, here, Senator, [1:27:06] because when some fringe right-winger does something awful, [1:27:09] he's castigated, thrown into prison, as he should be. [1:27:11] When a fringe left-winger commits terrorist attacks, [1:27:14] sometimes he's given university positions, [1:27:16] as happened with the Weather Underground, [1:27:18] an organization which blew up part of this very building, [1:27:21] and they were rewarded with sinecures at universities. [1:27:24] For you and for others in the movement, [1:27:26] this means that it's more expensive. [1:27:29] Yes. [1:27:31] And from a personal security standpoint, [1:27:33] a preserving-your-own-life standpoint, [1:27:35] far more risky than it would be for someone else. [1:27:39] I can't help but wonder whether that is a feature [1:27:42] and not a bug. [1:27:43] Thank you. [1:27:46] Thank you. [1:27:47] It's also worth noting that a member of the Weather Underground, [1:27:49] Bill Ayers, actually hosted Barack Obama's first fundraiser [1:27:51] when he ran for state Senate. [1:27:53] Senator Booker. [1:27:58] I find hearings like this frustrating. [1:28:03] And they deepen, to me, what is a problem in our country, [1:28:06] which is a growing tribalism and our inability to come together [1:28:10] and work on issues where we have so much common ground. [1:28:13] So I'm a senator in the United States, and I know them well [1:28:17] and have friends on both sides of the aisle [1:28:19] that condemns political violence. [1:28:21] That does not condemn political violence. [1:28:24] But when we hold hearings that come at this issue [1:28:28] that reflects the partisanship of our time [1:28:31] and the tribalism of our time, we don't get to a solution. [1:28:34] We are in a crisis right now, and there is growing political violence [1:28:40] and a glowing justification for it. [1:28:42] But I find it stunning that the way we talk about it [1:28:47] seems more about grievance politics and trying to score points [1:28:51] than actually getting to the root of what is an American problem. [1:28:58] And it frustrates me when that is so transparent and clear, [1:29:06] especially when we don't talk about people on our own side of the aisle. [1:29:12] Chuck Schumer was very wrong in what he said, [1:29:15] and my colleague held up the quote. [1:29:20] I've actually seen that quote. [1:29:22] I've lost count of how many times my colleagues have raised that quote. [1:29:24] But you know what they never say? [1:29:27] Is that he came out and apologized for it. [1:29:30] That Chuck Schumer, using self-interrogation, said I was wrong. [1:29:38] I've never seen the president of the United States [1:29:40] who has spoken about punching people in the face, [1:29:46] who has said a lot of violent rhetoric, [1:29:48] has never given that type of self-interrogation. [1:29:51] I don't understand how we could be having a hearing right now [1:29:57] at a time when threats on the senator sitting up here have gone through the roof, [1:30:01] where we can't have a constructive conversation [1:30:05] but instead are pitting witnesses against witnesses, [1:30:07] many of whom, like Mr. Hodges, have had to sit there [1:30:10] and relive his trauma over and over again [1:30:14] in hopes that something would be done about the problem. [1:30:19] And God, we should just tell the truth. [1:30:24] There is political violence. [1:30:27] Extremists who have left-wing ideologies and right-wing ideologies. [1:30:31] To say it's just one and not the other is to deepen the problem. [1:30:35] But we have an administration right now [1:30:38] who is eviscerating the people that should be keeping us safe [1:30:43] and who is pulling down from the website, [1:30:45] as they did earlier this year, [1:30:47] when the Department of Justice removed from its website [1:30:49] a government-funded report published last year [1:30:52] that found that the number of far-right attacks [1:30:54] continues to outpace all other types of terrorism [1:30:57] and domestic violence extremism. [1:30:59] If we can't accurately describe a problem [1:31:03] and do it without partisan rhetoric [1:31:05] or seeking to score partisan points, [1:31:07] we will not solve this problem. [1:31:09] I have a lot of colleagues that are wiser and more full of grace. [1:31:15] I'm a big believer about faith, [1:31:17] that before you tell me about your religion, [1:31:19] first show it to me in how you treat other people. [1:31:21] If you ascribe to the beliefs of my faith, of Jesus Christ, [1:31:25] God, show grace. [1:31:26] And I still remember bemoaning to Tim Kaine [1:31:29] about the problems we have in our growing, hostile, [1:31:33] degrading and demeaning political climate. [1:31:36] And he said the only way this is ever going to be cured, [1:31:38] he said to me, [1:31:39] was by each of us showing every single day [1:31:42] a relentless commitment to ideals [1:31:44] of extending grace to one another. [1:31:46] I haven't heard any of that rhetoric [1:31:49] in the little bit of this hearing that I've listened to. [1:31:51] I've heard finger-pointing, condemnation, [1:31:54] demeaning and degrading that reflects our partisan divide. [1:31:58] This is the American problem. [1:32:04] I am violence that I never imagined could happen. [1:32:10] And yet we have an inability to name it and condemn it [1:32:16] and commit ourselves to doing something about it. [1:32:18] I will do my best to call it like it is, [1:32:22] to hear quotes that I've even said that need to be tamped down. [1:32:28] Because the only thing that's going to save our country now [1:32:31] is not more political posturing and partisan finger-pointing. [1:32:36] The only thing that's going to get us out of this condition [1:32:40] is for courageous leaders, [1:32:41] in both parties, [1:32:43] to start standing up and extending grace [1:32:49] and self-introspection. [1:32:52] It's a lot easier when I call out Chuck Schumer's comments [1:32:55] to make a difference. [1:32:58] And God, I wish I'd see more of my colleagues [1:33:02] being willing to call out the President of the United States [1:33:04] for his outrageous comments as well. [1:33:07] Thank you. [1:33:09] Senator Blackburn. [1:33:10] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:33:11] Thank you to each of you for being here today [1:33:14] and to our law enforcement that is here. [1:33:16] We thank you for your service. [1:33:19] Mr. Knowles, I do want to come to you. [1:33:22] And it is wonderful to have you here with us today. [1:33:26] And we appreciate that you're a Nashville resident, [1:33:30] have been there for several years now. [1:33:34] And I want to return to the topic [1:33:37] of the assassination of Charlie Kirk. [1:33:42] And one of the things that was quite disturbing to me [1:33:46] was quotes [1:33:48] that came from activist professors. [1:33:51] And we had in Tennessee [1:33:56] three professors that made just horrendous statements. [1:34:03] Two have been terminated. [1:34:05] One is going through a termination hearing at this point. [1:34:09] An assistant dean at MTSU posted on Facebook, [1:34:14] looks like old Charlie spoke his fate into existence. [1:34:18] Hate begets hate. [1:34:20] Zero sympathy. [1:34:22] There was an assistant professor [1:34:25] at the University of Tennessee. [1:34:27] And their post referenced Charlie Kirk. [1:34:33] And it was, [1:34:34] the world is better off without him in it, [1:34:37] even those who are claiming to be sad [1:34:40] for his wife and kids. [1:34:42] His kids are better off living in a world [1:34:45] without a disgusting psychopath [1:34:47] like him and his wife. [1:34:49] And then an English professor [1:34:51] at Cumberland University posted on Facebook, [1:34:55] crying about a Nazi getting shot [1:34:58] while staying silent about the school shooting [1:35:01] in Colorado today is peak Republican. [1:35:05] Now, I believe that people that praise violence [1:35:12] should not be anywhere near our children. [1:35:16] I do not know of a parent [1:35:19] that wants their child [1:35:21] to be receiving instruction [1:35:24] from an individual who glorifies [1:35:28] and applauds brutal murder. [1:35:31] And the murder of a husband, a father, [1:35:34] the murder of someone who believes like me [1:35:38] that our nation has been kept free [1:35:42] because we believe in robust, respectful, [1:35:46] bipartisan debate. [1:35:50] And I would like for you to talk for just a minute [1:35:54] about what is happening in higher education [1:35:57] and the role that seems to be playing [1:36:00] in some of this violence and violent rhetoric. [1:36:04] I think you make a marvelous point, Senator. [1:36:06] You cannot possibly expect a parent [1:36:08] to send their children to a school [1:36:10] where the professors might endeavor [1:36:13] to kill half the students. [1:36:15] It would be like going to a restaurant [1:36:17] with the assumption that the waiters want to poison [1:36:19] half the customers or something like that. [1:36:21] You can't go to a hospital [1:36:23] where the nurses want to kill half the patients. [1:36:25] You cannot operate a society that way [1:36:27] that is obviously beyond the pale. [1:36:29] And if you are to permit that kind of speech [1:36:32] into the marketplace of ideas, [1:36:34] it doesn't have the effect of expanding [1:36:36] the marketplace of ideas. [1:36:38] It actually shrinks the marketplace of ideas. [1:36:40] This is why the First Amendment [1:36:42] obviously prohibits things like direct threats [1:36:44] or obscenity or fighting words [1:36:46] because these are forms of speech [1:36:48] that actually undermine rational discourse. [1:36:51] You know, I think Senator Booker made a good point [1:36:53] just a moment ago when he said, [1:36:54] we have to self-examine. [1:36:55] We have to be introspective. [1:36:57] And, you know, I can't help but think of a line today. [1:37:00] Jay Jones has the vision, commitment, and integrity [1:37:04] to keep families safe [1:37:05] and make sure every Virginian gets a fair shake [1:37:07] in the justice system. [1:37:09] I'll be working every day to ensure Jay wins this race. [1:37:12] That's the endorsement of Senator Booker [1:37:15] for a man who would seek to be [1:37:17] the Attorney General of Virginia. [1:37:19] This is a man who, [1:37:20] if people have not been reading the news, [1:37:22] has called for a Republican to be murdered, [1:37:24] for his children to be murdered, [1:37:26] for the children to die in their mother's arms [1:37:28] in order to persuade the Republican [1:37:30] to change his policy views, [1:37:31] and a man who says that he would urinate [1:37:33] on the graves of multiple Republicans. [1:37:35] Senator Booker, in the spirit of introspection, [1:37:37] is standing by this endorsement, [1:37:39] so I suppose I would invite... [1:37:41] And hold such views [1:37:44] as I put on the posters behind me [1:37:47] and that parents are then having to address [1:37:51] those issues with their kids. [1:37:54] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:37:55] Thank you. [1:37:56] Senator Padilla. [1:37:57] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:38:00] I just want to join all of my colleagues [1:38:03] in the stance that political violence [1:38:07] is never acceptable. [1:38:09] It should be denounced at every turn, [1:38:11] regardless of where it comes from. [1:38:13] We've seen what happens when violence [1:38:16] becomes a political tool. [1:38:18] It's not protests. [1:38:20] It becomes an attack on our very democracy itself, [1:38:23] and it strikes at the principle [1:38:25] that political change in this country [1:38:27] should happen through healthy, rigorous debate [1:38:30] and at the ballot box, [1:38:32] not through fear or intimidation. [1:38:35] And while political violence is rare, [1:38:39] its impact is profound. [1:38:43] Now, I want to ask a question [1:38:48] specifically in the context of threats [1:38:51] and intimidation that becomes aimed [1:38:53] at public officials, [1:38:55] and those are more than just personal attacks. [1:38:58] They're attempts to make people too afraid to serve. [1:39:02] We've seen that danger spread [1:39:06] not just from members of Congress [1:39:08] and state officials, local elected officials, [1:39:11] but to judges and election workers now, too. [1:39:16] Now, protecting those who uphold [1:39:18] our democratic system should not be controversial. [1:39:22] The democratic system should not be [1:39:24] controversial. [1:39:28] Mr. Braniff, what does current research show [1:39:32] about the surge in threats [1:39:34] to members of Congress since 2017, [1:39:38] and how can Congress strengthen [1:39:40] threat assessment capacity [1:39:43] without chilling legitimate speech? [1:39:49] Thank you, Senator. [1:39:51] Individuals who wind up fixating [1:39:53] on elected officials or the integrity [1:39:55] of our election system [1:39:57] are clearly espousing [1:40:00] anti-democratic sentiment, right? [1:40:02] And often those are observable, right? [1:40:05] These individuals leak their intent [1:40:07] or express things that others can pick up on. [1:40:10] So in other contexts, [1:40:12] 80% of school shooters leak their intent. [1:40:14] About 50% of mass casualty attackers [1:40:16] leak their intent. [1:40:18] So there's often these indications [1:40:20] that someone is starting to self-medicate [1:40:22] on the idea of violence, [1:40:24] and that's an opportunity to do an intervention. [1:40:26] And unfortunately, the U.S. Secret Service [1:40:28] is, of course, an exceptional organization [1:40:30] when it comes to behavioral threat assessment [1:40:32] and management. [1:40:34] There are other entities in the U.S. government [1:40:36] that still train behavioral threat assessment [1:40:38] and management. [1:40:40] This is becoming a normal practice across the country. [1:40:42] Some states have mandates [1:40:44] for behavioral threat assessment and management, [1:40:46] but we really need to invest [1:40:48] in nationalizing these programs. [1:40:50] I don't mean in having one national program. [1:40:52] I mean having them scale nationally, [1:40:54] ensuring that those individuals are trained, [1:40:56] that those programs are resourced [1:40:58] so that they can operate with fidelity. [1:41:00] But there's a really important opportunity [1:41:02] to do non-punitive interventions [1:41:04] for individuals before they get [1:41:06] to the point of criminality, [1:41:08] but have a handoff mechanism there [1:41:10] in case they have crossed that criminal threshold [1:41:12] so that we can maintain, [1:41:14] ensure our democracy remains intact [1:41:16] and these individuals receive accountability [1:41:18] if that's what the situation calls for. [1:41:20] Thank you. And just as a follow-up, [1:41:22] two follow-ups, if you don't mind. [1:41:24] One, we've seen doxing of federal judges [1:41:26] and attacks on elected officials. [1:41:28] What protective measures have proven [1:41:30] most effective at deterring [1:41:32] or preventing these types of threats? [1:41:34] Senator, I don't know [1:41:39] that I have a great answer [1:41:41] on the prevention of doxing. [1:41:43] We live in a very online world. [1:41:45] There's a lot of information available for all of us. [1:41:47] We can all do the best we can [1:41:49] to protect our personal information. [1:41:51] I think that at the end of the day, [1:41:53] a lot of what we've been talking about [1:41:55] is important, and that are norms. [1:41:57] What are the norms that we allow for [1:41:59] that we think are acceptable [1:42:01] in our community, in our households, [1:42:03] among our friends? [1:42:05] Norms actually really do matter. [1:42:07] Norms and culture shape behaviors. [1:42:09] And we right now are really struggling [1:42:11] with the power that the online world gives us [1:42:13] without a lot of norms [1:42:15] that work against our worst impulses. [1:42:17] Thank you. [1:42:19] And one question for Mr. Hodges, [1:42:21] and I appreciate your service [1:42:23] and all you've been through [1:42:25] and your willingness to be here today. [1:42:27] Based on your experience, Mr. Hodges, [1:42:29] what operational or resource [1:42:31] gaps must be addressed [1:42:33] to safeguard [1:42:35] democratic processes [1:42:37] and better protect public servants? [1:42:44] That's an excellent question. [1:42:46] I'm just a regular old patrol officer. [1:42:48] I'm not in the meetings [1:42:51] of management. [1:42:53] I don't have the bird's eye view. [1:42:55] I don't know. [1:42:57] I don't know what resources [1:42:59] we can dedicate to [1:43:02] stemming this problem. [1:43:05] I believe the other witness here [1:43:07] had a great point earlier [1:43:09] about intervention. [1:43:11] I had never heard of that before [1:43:13] from a scholarly point of view, [1:43:15] and that sound is very promising. [1:43:17] I think that we should look towards funding that [1:43:20] if it gets the results that he spoke of. [1:43:22] Thank you. [1:43:24] And I know my time is up, Mr. Chairman. [1:43:26] I just offer an invite in closing [1:43:28] that we as members of the committee, [1:43:30] members of the Senate as an entire body [1:43:32] can do a whole lot of good by leading by example. [1:43:34] Thank you. [1:43:39] Senator Hawley. [1:43:41] Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [1:43:43] Mr. Braniff, can I just start with you? [1:43:45] I just want to follow up on something you were [1:43:47] just saying to Senator Padilla. [1:43:49] I wasn't quite clear from your answer to him. [1:43:51] You're anti-doxing or pro-doxing? [1:43:56] Anti-doxing, Senator. [1:43:58] And you were talking about norms, [1:44:00] that we're struggling with norms now [1:44:02] around the internet and what is public and what not. [1:44:04] Did I hear that correctly? [1:44:06] Yes, Senator. [1:44:08] So what would you say about elected officials [1:44:10] who are actively doxing federal law enforcement agents? [1:44:15] Senator, I'd say that's problematic behavior. [1:44:17] Yeah, I'm glad to hear you say that. [1:44:19] Let's just be a little more specific. [1:44:21] The doxing of ICE agents, [1:44:23] the doxing of Border Patrol agents [1:44:25] that elected members of Congress have engaged in, [1:44:27] do you think that's a norm that ought to be encouraged? [1:44:29] No, Senator. [1:44:33] Would you condemn it here today? [1:44:35] I condemn anti-democratic behavior [1:44:37] that puts individuals at risk when there are alternatives. [1:44:39] Well, I'm sorry, what does that mean? [1:44:41] Does that mean no, not really, or what? [1:44:43] You're saying it's wrong to dox these people or not? [1:44:46] Yes, Senator. [1:44:48] I'm saying it's wrong to dox individuals [1:44:50] who violate civil discourse voting [1:44:52] to address differences in a democracy. [1:44:54] Good, okay, good. [1:44:56] Well, I'm glad to hear you say that. [1:44:58] I think that's important, [1:45:00] and I think that your point about norms is well taken. [1:45:02] But I've been shocked, [1:45:04] just on the doxing question, [1:45:06] I've been absolutely shocked to see elected members [1:45:08] of this body and of the House of Representatives [1:45:10] actively advocating for the doxing [1:45:12] of federal law enforcement officers [1:45:14] and then doing it, [1:45:16] some of them posting information about ICE agents, [1:45:18] trying to post their pictures online, [1:45:20] how they live online. [1:45:22] I mean, that's just unbelievable. [1:45:24] And I don't want that to happen to anybody. [1:45:26] Judges, sure, [1:45:28] but let's start with our federal law enforcement [1:45:30] who are out there doing a terrific job [1:45:32] and literally putting their lives on the line. [1:45:34] I think of our brave police officers, [1:45:36] there's some in this room here [1:45:38] who currently are not getting paid, by the way. [1:45:41] The idea that these folks would be doxed [1:45:43] is, I think, just unbelievable. [1:45:45] I would plead with my colleagues [1:45:47] on the other side of the aisle to stop this. [1:45:49] Mr. Knowles, while I've got you here, [1:45:51] it's great to have you here. [1:45:53] Can we just drill down a little bit [1:45:55] on the political violence question [1:45:57] and maybe just do even a little more truth-telling? [1:45:59] Because I feel like we talk about political violence generally. [1:46:01] We talk about violence against conservatives generally. [1:46:03] But let's just be real specific. [1:46:05] A lot of the violence that we're seeing [1:46:07] is actually against people of faith, [1:46:09] and more particularly, it's against Christians. [1:46:12] Isn't that fair to say? [1:46:14] That's certainly fair to say, Senator. [1:46:16] I mean, Charlie Kirk, what he said [1:46:18] just a month before his death, [1:46:20] and I heard it, he said it to me. [1:46:22] It was a decade before his assassination. [1:46:24] What he said was the legacy he wanted to leave [1:46:26] was a legacy of faith. [1:46:28] What he wanted to be known for [1:46:30] was his faith in Jesus Christ. [1:46:32] And I thought he was just incredibly bold [1:46:34] about saying that publicly all the time. [1:46:36] You know, when he could be talking about politics, [1:46:38] and sure, he talked a lot of politics, of course. [1:46:40] But what he really talked about was his faith. [1:46:42] And you can't tell me [1:46:44] that that did not play into the reason [1:46:46] that he was killed. [1:46:48] Let's look at some numbers, though. [1:46:50] Here's the Center for Religious Liberty. [1:46:52] The most recent stats that we have [1:46:54] for the year 2024, [1:46:56] 415 separately reported instances [1:46:58] of acts of violence [1:47:00] against churches in the United States. [1:47:02] We're talking now about arson, [1:47:04] bomb threats, [1:47:06] firearm incidents, [1:47:08] and shootings, [1:47:10] as well as vandalism more broadly. [1:47:12] The Biden administration prosecuted [1:47:14] about zero of these particular threats [1:47:16] in their time in office. [1:47:18] What do you think it says [1:47:20] that we're seeing this massive uptick [1:47:22] in violence against people of faith, [1:47:24] against Christians? [1:47:26] What's the reason for this, do you think? [1:47:28] Cardinal Manning wisely observed [1:47:30] that all human conflict ultimately [1:47:32] is theological. [1:47:34] A lot of our big policy debates in recent years [1:47:36] have really been anthropological [1:47:38] and religious in nature. [1:47:40] What is a man? What is a woman? [1:47:42] These kinds of questions. [1:47:44] And there is no doubt, Senator, [1:47:46] that the attacks, widespread and increasing [1:47:48] on churches, has been underreported [1:47:50] in some cases entirely. [1:47:52] You know, there's been a lot of dispute [1:47:54] over where the violence lies, [1:47:56] on the left or on the right, [1:47:58] and we've observed, now it seems [1:48:00] I think indisputable that it's mostly on the left, [1:48:02] but in earlier years it has been observed [1:48:04] that a lot of incidents [1:48:06] just don't appear on the registers. [1:48:08] And two of the most prominent [1:48:10] that come to my mind recently, [1:48:12] the Covenant school shooting [1:48:14] in which a trans-identifying killer [1:48:16] massacred Christian children [1:48:18] when they were at school, [1:48:20] a trans-identifying shooter [1:48:22] killing school children. [1:48:24] The fact that these were shootings [1:48:26] related to churches, related to faith, [1:48:28] is no coincidence at all. [1:48:30] And the fact that Charlie Kirk said [1:48:32] that what he most wanted to be remembered for [1:48:34] was his faith is no coincidence either. [1:48:37] He was absolutely right. [1:48:39] That's the heart of the matter. [1:48:41] I'm almost done, Mr. Chairman. [1:48:43] I know my time is nearly at an end, [1:48:45] but I just want to press on this point. [1:48:48] What message do you think it sends, Mr. Knowles, [1:48:50] and I'm thinking in particular [1:48:52] of the infamous FBI memo [1:48:54] in which the Biden DOJ and FBI [1:48:56] attempted to recruit informants [1:48:58] into Catholic parishes, [1:49:00] in particular traditional Latin mass Catholic parishes. [1:49:02] This is our government now [1:49:04] effectively telling the world, [1:49:07] you know, we think these believers [1:49:09] are kind of crazy. [1:49:11] I mean, we think they need to be spied on. [1:49:13] These people need to be watched. [1:49:15] We need informants in the choir. [1:49:17] We need them in the pews. [1:49:19] We need them at mass on every Sunday. [1:49:21] When our own government [1:49:23] is attempting to spy on people of faith [1:49:25] and put people, put spies [1:49:27] into pews in churches. [1:49:29] Four words, Senator. The message is [1:49:31] don't go to church. [1:49:33] And coincidentally, I'm here today to testify [1:49:35] about this event at the University of Pittsburgh [1:49:37] when Antifa threw an explosive [1:49:39] during one of my events. [1:49:41] The FBI reached out to me afterward. [1:49:43] They asked if I would speak, and I said no [1:49:45] because the story had just come out [1:49:47] that the FBI had been infiltrating [1:49:49] Catholic parishes under the Biden administration. [1:49:51] The DOJ had been prosecuting nuns, [1:49:53] had been going after pro-lifers, [1:49:55] had been going after Christians broadly. [1:49:57] And I couldn't take that risk. [1:49:59] A damning fact [1:50:01] about how our government has operated [1:50:03] and the position of Christians in the United States. [1:50:05] I just want to leave everybody in the room [1:50:07] and watching this with one more picture of Mark Houck. [1:50:09] Speaking of pro-lifers, Mark Houck [1:50:12] is a devout Christian, [1:50:14] believes in the right to life of every American. [1:50:16] Here he is with his beautiful family. [1:50:18] Our own government sent an FBI SWAT team [1:50:20] to this man's door at 5 in the morning [1:50:22] to arrest him with guns drawn [1:50:24] in front of his children. [1:50:26] He was later acquitted, I might add. [1:50:28] They charged him with ridiculous crimes [1:50:30] that would amount to essentially praying [1:50:32] in front of an abortion clinic. [1:50:34] I think we've got to do, I think it's time [1:50:36] for our government to do some soul searching. [1:50:38] Talk about soul searching that needs to go on. [1:50:40] How about the fact that our own government [1:50:42] in the last four years used the FBI [1:50:44] against pro-lifers, used the FBI [1:50:46] against Christian parents, [1:50:48] attempted to recruit spies into Catholic churches. [1:50:50] When our government is doing this, [1:50:52] how about the fact that we have [1:50:54] these deranged lunatics out there [1:50:56] shooting people like Charlie Kirk? [1:50:59] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:51:01] Senator Cruz. [1:51:04] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:51:06] Welcome to each of the witnesses. [1:51:08] Mr. Knowles, welcome to the swamp. [1:51:10] I will say I'm very confused being in a room with you [1:51:12] and there are no cigars and no scotch. [1:51:14] I cannot recall the last time that transpired. [1:51:17] I appreciate the testimony of everyone here. [1:51:19] The topic we're considering is, [1:51:21] I think, of exceptional importance. [1:51:23] There is an epidemic [1:51:25] of political motivated violence. [1:51:28] And the politically motivated violence [1:51:30] in this country is overwhelmingly [1:51:32] emanating from the left. [1:51:35] We saw that during the Black Lives Matter [1:51:38] and Antifa riots across the country [1:51:40] as cities across America burned. [1:51:42] We saw that [1:51:44] during the anti-Semitic protests [1:51:46] on college campuses [1:51:49] as Jewish students in particular [1:51:51] were threatened and feared [1:51:53] for their lives. [1:51:56] We saw that with the pro-open border riots [1:51:58] in Los Angeles [1:52:00] and other cities. [1:52:04] And we saw that, tragically, [1:52:06] with the murder of Charlie Kirk, [1:52:09] someone who was a good friend to many of us [1:52:11] and an extraordinary leader. [1:52:15] Mr. Knowles, you too were targeted [1:52:19] on a college campus. [1:52:23] What does it say about the state of our universities [1:52:25] that holding a debate [1:52:27] on a public campus [1:52:29] now requires police barricades, [1:52:31] bomb squads, and body armor? [1:52:35] My question is, what are the universities for? [1:52:37] Aren't the universities [1:52:39] for pursuing truth? [1:52:41] If the universities [1:52:43] are not advancing those goals [1:52:45] as manifestly they are not, [1:52:47] then I think we need to strongly consider [1:52:49] defunding those universities. [1:52:51] I think we need to strongly consider [1:52:53] not sending our children [1:52:55] to those universities [1:52:57] because they have been perverted [1:52:59] against their very purpose. [1:53:01] And this is so apparent [1:53:03] in much of the left-wing discourse. [1:53:05] To me it seems, [1:53:07] hearing even mainstream Democrats on this, [1:53:09] that for them, [1:53:11] their violence is speech [1:53:13] and our speech is violence. [1:53:15] There was no more gracious [1:53:17] or generous or charitable [1:53:19] debater on college campuses than Charlie Kirk. [1:53:21] He always endeavored [1:53:23] to hear out the other side, [1:53:25] to steel man their arguments, [1:53:27] to give them the benefit of the doubt. [1:53:29] And he was killed for it. [1:53:31] He was killed for ideological reasons. [1:53:33] And that has to be an inflection point. [1:53:35] And as far as I'm concerned, [1:53:37] if the universities in the political order [1:53:39] have a healthy marketplace for debate, [1:53:41] they're useless. [1:53:44] Look, I think you are absolutely right. [1:53:46] I think our universities are failing profoundly [1:53:48] in that regard. [1:53:50] At Columbia University, [1:53:52] during the anti-Semitic protests, [1:53:54] the Orthodox rabbi on campus [1:53:56] sent an email to the Jewish students on campus [1:53:58] and said, [1:54:00] do not come to campus because the university [1:54:02] cannot and will not protect you. [1:54:04] That is a fundamental abdication [1:54:06] of their most essential responsibility, [1:54:08] which is to protect their students. [1:54:10] Columbia refused to protect them [1:54:12] because, ideologically, [1:54:14] they sided with the violent protesters. [1:54:16] And let me ask, the attack on your event, [1:54:18] was that a spontaneous protest [1:54:20] or was it organized, [1:54:22] planned, and well-funded? [1:54:26] It was the latter, Senator. [1:54:28] And we can point to the specific networks, [1:54:30] we can point to the anarchist bookshops, [1:54:32] we can point to the email addresses [1:54:34] for the tax-free, non-profit organizations [1:54:36] that were funneling the donations [1:54:38] to these people. [1:54:40] They organized left-wing crime. [1:54:45] I'm not the only person [1:54:47] who noticed in the anti-Semitic protests [1:54:49] that the tents all matched. [1:54:51] There is real money. [1:54:55] There is real money [1:54:57] and it is many of the same networks, [1:54:59] unfortunately, [1:55:02] whether they are open border radicals, [1:55:05] whether they are [1:55:07] anti-capitalist communists, [1:55:10] whether they are jihadists, [1:55:12] the funding [1:55:16] is steady and significant. [1:55:18] Mr. Wolf, [1:55:29] in 2020, under your leadership, [1:55:31] DHS officers stood on the front lines [1:55:33] in Portland, facing more than a hundred [1:55:35] consecutive nights of siege [1:55:37] against the Marco Hatfield Federal Courthouse. [1:55:39] Officers were assaulted [1:55:41] with commercial-grade fireworks, [1:55:43] lasers, and Molotov cocktails. [1:55:46] Were those random outbursts [1:55:48] or were they coordinated, [1:55:50] resourced operations with strategy, [1:55:52] logistics, and financing behind them? [1:55:54] Without a doubt, Senator, they were coordinated. [1:55:57] I had the chance to visit [1:55:59] Portland during the middle of that [1:56:01] 100-day period, [1:56:03] and from the Hatfield Courthouse [1:56:05] where I was, you could see into [1:56:07] the park below tents, [1:56:09] a lot of them, a lot of tents, [1:56:11] and I asked my federal officers at the time, [1:56:13] what's in the tents? [1:56:28] It's weapons, it's munitions, [1:56:30] it's a variety of different things [1:56:32] that get resupplied almost on a daily basis. [1:56:34] Wow. So yes, organized. [1:56:36] These same checkbooks [1:56:41] are funding the chaos in Minneapolis, [1:56:43] in Portland, [1:56:45] in Los Angeles. It's why I've [1:56:47] introduced the Stop Funders Act. [1:56:49] The Stop Funders Act adds rioting [1:56:52] as a predicate offense [1:56:54] to RICO to enable the Department [1:56:57] of Justice to use the full tools [1:56:59] that have been directed at the mafia [1:57:01] to go after the corrupt enterprise [1:57:03] because at the end of the day, [1:57:05] the thug who is engaged in violence [1:57:07] is committing criminal acts, [1:57:09] but the billionaire who is trying to tear [1:57:11] down this country by writing checks [1:57:13] to fund it bears [1:57:16] in many ways far greater responsibility. [1:57:18] Mr. Wolf, in your judgment, [1:57:20] would passing the Stop Funders Act, [1:57:22] adding rioting as a predicate act [1:57:24] to RICO, assist [1:57:26] DOJ in going after [1:57:28] and stopping these coordinated, [1:57:30] politically motivated acts of violence? [1:57:32] Yeah, absolutely it would. [1:57:34] And happy to say that the American [1:57:36] First Policy Institute has endorsed [1:57:38] that piece of legislation as well [1:57:40] because you have to understand [1:57:42] where they're getting their finance, [1:57:44] where they're getting their backing, [1:57:46] and if you can't use the resources [1:57:48] that the Department of Justice should be using, [1:57:50] you can't use the resources [1:57:52] that the Department of Justice [1:57:54] should be using. [1:57:56] So I think that the Department of Justice [1:57:58] and the FBI are looking into this financing. [1:58:00] So giving them additional quivers [1:58:02] in their bag I think would be very good. [1:58:04] Thank you. [1:58:08] Thank you, Senator Cruz. [1:58:10] So I want to thank all the witnesses [1:58:12] for being here today and for your testimony. [1:58:14] Written questions for them may be submitted [1:58:16] for the record until Tuesday, November 4th [1:58:18] at 5 p.m.