Sen. Josh Hawley Grills DOJ Pardon Attorney Elizabeth Oyer Over Biden Clemency Decisions — AC14

[0:00] and that is a moment that will live in my memory forever [0:02] because they crossed party lines [0:04] for something that was really important. [0:06] So I hope that you can all do that. [0:08] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:10] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:12] Just on that note, Ms. Benski, [0:13] and for everybody who's here, [0:15] all of the victims, thank you for being here. [0:16] Thank you for standing up and telling your stories. [0:19] Ms. Boss, thank you for being here [0:21] and for telling us about your daughter. [0:23] I'm sorry for what all of you have been through. [0:25] So I want to say thank you and honor your voices [0:27] and honor what you're doing. [0:28] Ms. Orya, if I could just turn to you. [0:30] You were President Biden's pardon attorney, [0:32] is that correct? [0:34] I was the Justice Department's pardon attorney. [0:36] You recommended, you made clemency recommendations [0:38] to the White House, whether or not to pardon inmates. [0:40] Is that correct? [0:41] My job was to make clemency recommendations. [0:44] And in that capacity, you recommended [0:46] that the President of the United States, Joe Biden, [0:49] grant clemency to all 40 federal death row inmates, [0:53] all of them, clear them out, correct? [0:55] Sir, as I told Chairman Grassley, [0:57] I'm not free to discuss the recommendations. [1:00] Well, that's what your memo says. [1:01] I mean, we have your memo. [1:03] Your memo of November 4th, 2024 says, and I quote, [1:07] disparity and undue severity of sentence, [1:10] which are present in many, if not all, of these cases [1:13] have been recognized as grounds for clemency. [1:15] And you went on to recommend in that memo [1:17] and a series of other memos that are now recorded [1:20] and public record, [1:21] that the President of the United States [1:23] grant clemency to murderers, rapists, [1:26] and the most horrible offenders, [1:27] all of them, clear death row completely out. [1:29] I'm amazed you've been called here today. [1:31] I'm absolutely amazed by it. [1:33] But let's just talk about the people who you recommended. [1:35] You can talk about honoring victims. [1:37] The people who you recommended get clemency [1:40] and live at the expense and sufferance of taxpayers [1:43] for the rest of their lives. [1:44] Let's start with Dylan Roof. [1:46] Dylan was a neo-Nazi [1:48] who murdered nine African-American worshipers [1:52] at a Bible study in Charleston, South Carolina, 2015. [1:56] Do you remember this case? [1:57] I do remember it very well. [1:58] I would hope you did. [1:59] Here's his victims. [2:00] Do you want to look at them? [2:01] There they are. [2:02] Nine of them at a Bible study in a church [2:06] killed in cold blood. [2:09] The DOJ knew from day one that he had decided, [2:12] I'm going to quote from the prosecutors, [2:14] decided to attack African-Americans [2:16] because of their race. [2:17] He further decided to attack African-American worshipers [2:20] in a black church [2:22] in order to make his attack more notorious. [2:26] More notorious. [2:28] And yet you recommended that he be granted clemency, [2:31] live at the expense of taxpayers [2:32] for the rest of his life, [2:33] substitute your judgment for that [2:35] of the American judicial system. [2:36] Do you stand by that recommendation today? [2:38] Sir, I'm not going to comment [2:40] on the recommendations that I made, [2:41] but I can tell you that Mr. Roof [2:43] is going to die in prison as... [2:45] Oh, he's going to live in prison for a very long time [2:47] because of you, [2:48] because of your recommendations. [2:50] And here's what you said [2:51] in your memo of October 30th, 2024. [2:53] You said that actually Roof [2:54] is not a compelling candidate for clemency, [2:56] but you recommended it anyway. [2:58] Why? [2:58] Because he suffered from anxiety, you said. [3:01] Right? [3:02] He suffered from anxiety. [3:05] Did it ever occur to you [3:06] that maybe the family of his victims [3:08] might suffer a little bit of anxiety [3:10] because he marched into their church [3:12] and murdered them in cold blood [3:14] because he was an incredible racist [3:16] and he wanted to get on TV? [3:18] Sir. [3:19] Do you regret it? [3:20] I'm not going to comment on the recommendations [3:21] that I made to the president. [3:23] Let's talk about Robert Bowers, [3:24] a man who regularly spewed [3:26] such vile hatred of Jews. [3:28] It's unlike anything I've ever seen. [3:30] He barged into a Pittsburgh synagogue in 2018 [3:32] and he shot everybody he could find, [3:36] killing 11 innocent people [3:38] who were there to worship. [3:40] A federal jury in Pittsburgh [3:42] unanimously recommended the death sentence [3:44] after finding him guilty on 63 counts. [3:48] Here they are. [3:49] They're his victims. [3:51] Take a good look. [3:53] You recommended clemency for this person [3:56] who went in and killed these people [3:59] just because they're Jews. [4:01] He killed, the other guy killed people [4:03] just because they're black. [4:04] This guy killed people [4:05] just because they're Jews. [4:06] A jury recommended [4:07] that he be sentenced to death [4:09] and you substituted your judgment for theirs [4:11] and now he's going to live. [4:13] Are you proud of that? [4:15] Sir, what I am proud of [4:17] is the fact that I took my job [4:19] as pardon attorney extremely seriously. [4:22] Apparently not seriously enough. [4:23] You certainly didn't take the victims seriously. [4:25] Then there's Jorge Avila Torres [4:27] who wasn't just a murderer. [4:29] He was a serial killer and a rapist. [4:32] Here is who he assaulted and killed. [4:36] He sexually assaulted and killed [4:38] eight-year-old Laura Hobbs [4:39] and nine-year-old Crystal Tobias [4:42] in a Chicago suburb in 2005. [4:46] And then four years after that, [4:48] he committed another murder. [4:50] He slaughtered a fellow service member, [4:52] Navy Petty Officer Amanda Snell in 2009 [4:55] while she was in her barracks. [4:57] That's what he did. [4:59] And he recommended clemency for this individual [5:02] and now he'll live his life [5:04] at the expense of taxpayers [5:06] because you substituted your judgment [5:09] for that of the American judicial system. [5:12] Jury judges the whole lot [5:14] and yet you're here to tell us [5:15] that you're somehow a victim? [5:17] I don't think so, Ms. Oyer. [5:19] I think your judgment [5:20] is astoundingly terrible. [5:22] I'm amazed that this side of the aisle [5:24] has called you. [5:25] And I just ask my friends [5:26] on this side of the aisle, [5:27] do you agree with this? [5:29] Is this what you want? [5:31] Do you want these people [5:32] to be pardoned and live [5:34] at the expense of taxpayers [5:35] for their whole lives? [5:36] Do you want to excuse the murders [5:38] of African-American churchgoers? [5:40] Do you want to excuse the murders [5:42] of Jews in their synagogues? [5:44] Do you want to excuse the murders [5:45] of these children? [5:46] Because that's what she did [5:47] and now she's online [5:49] hawking products [5:50] to try to make money off of it. [5:51] I see you've got your own website [5:53] where you put your face [5:54] on baseball caps and mugs, [5:57] thelawyeroyer.com. [5:59] You're trying to make money on this? [6:01] This is unbelievable, Ms. Oyer. [6:04] And yet you say you're a victim? [6:06] These are the victims [6:07] and you helped victimize them. [6:11] And what you're doing is wrong. [6:12] I hope every member [6:13] on this side of the aisle [6:13] will repudiate what you have done [6:16] and what you stand for. [6:17] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [6:18] Sir, I assume that your questions [6:19] directed at me were rhetorical [6:21] and that you're giving... [6:22] They're not rhetorical at all. [6:23] I asked you to respond [6:25] and you said you wouldn't. [6:26] So what I did is I read to you [6:27] what you have said. [6:28] I quoted verbatim [6:30] and I'm happy to keep doing it. [6:32] In fact, I'd ask now, Mr. Chairman, [6:34] that this report, [6:35] Restoring and Strengthening [6:35] the Federal Death Penalty Report, [6:37] be entered into the record. [6:38] It contains information [6:39] regarding Ms. Oyer, [6:40] her recommendations, [6:42] and the track record of all of it. [6:44] The written records are here. [6:45] I ask to be entered into the record. [6:46] It'll be... [6:47] Ms. Oyer, take a minute [6:51] to respond if you want to. [6:56] Thank you, Chairman Grassley. [6:58] I, under President Biden, [7:00] just like under President Trump, [7:01] had a job to do, [7:02] which was to make recommendations [7:04] to the President [7:04] about how to best accomplish [7:06] their clemency objectives. [7:08] I put the utmost effort [7:10] into doing that in a way [7:12] that was consistent [7:13] with the interests [7:13] of the justice system [7:14] and all of its stakeholders, [7:16] which includes crime victims, [7:18] as well as defendants, [7:20] as well as family members, [7:21] as well as judges, [7:23] as well as prosecutors, [7:25] all criminal justice system stakeholders. [7:28] The process that I presided over [7:30] was one that was beyond reproach. [7:32] What's happening now with clemency [7:34] is an absolute disgrace. [7:36] And I'm sorry that I can't answer [7:38] the questions about [7:38] the specific recommendations [7:40] in this public setting, [7:41] but I would be glad to meet [7:42] with any members of this committee [7:44] who have concerns privately [7:46] to discuss to the extent [7:47] that I can what your concerns are. [7:49] Privately. Why don't you meet [7:49] with the victims' families? [7:50] Here's the disgrace. [7:51] Senator Whitehouse. [7:56] Thank you, Chairman. [7:58] Mr. Ashcroft, [8:00] welcome back to the Senate. [8:04] You knew Jim Comey? [8:10] Pardon me. [8:10] Yes, indeed, I did. [8:12] You trusted him? [8:13] He was the deputy.