SCOTUS Rules Against Conversion Therapy Ban

[0:00] It's Wednesday, April 1st. You might not be able to outlaw it, no matter how much doctors want to. [0:05] We start here. The Supreme Court overturns a ruling that would have banned conversion therapy. [0:13] In the words of Justice Neil Gorsuch, censorship of speech based on viewpoint. [0:18] This was not a close vote. So what does it mean for gay and transgender teenagers? [0:22] Meanwhile, a judge orders construction on the White House to be halted. [0:26] The question isn't for you or for me or for the president. It's for America's [0:29] elected representatives in Congress to decide. [0:32] Every project seems to go past deadline, but most of them don't need congressional approval. [0:37] And Israel says it doesn't matter if you're a terrorist or not, [0:40] if you live in certain neighborhoods, your home is about to be flattened. [0:44] All houses in villages near the border will be destroyed and they will not be able to return. [0:51] Why a ground campaign in Lebanon is sounding an awful lot like Gaza. [0:57] From ABC News, this is Start Here. I'm Brad Milkey. [1:01] This is Start Here. [1:07] This is perhaps the busiest time of year at the Supreme Court. They're still hearing cases. [1:11] In fact, later today, they will hear anticipated arguments over birthright citizenship. For years, [1:17] that has been cited in black and white as a constitutional certainty that if you're born here, [1:22] you're a citizen here. It didn't have to do with the protection of multimillionaires and [1:27] billionaires wanting to have their children get an American citizenship. The Trump administration [1:33] says that's the fundamental misreading of the 14th Amendment. They want to be allowed to [1:37] deport children who were born here if their parents were here temporarily or illegally. [1:42] So that'll be big. But this is also the time of year when the Supreme Court begins releasing its [1:47] biggest rulings from cases already argued. And yesterday, the justices ruled on a case that [1:52] could have huge implications for gay and transgender youth along with their families. [1:57] Let's bring in ABC senior Washington reporter Devin Dwyer, who covers the court. Devin, [2:02] what should we know about this ruling and what do the justices say? [2:05] Brad, this case is about conversion therapy. [2:07] Conversion therapy is the practice of a therapist trying to change a person's sexual [2:12] orientation or gender identity. And most major American mental health groups and medical groups [2:17] have discredited this practice for decades. They say it's been ineffective. It's even been harmful [2:21] and they have science to back it up. In more than half the states, 27 states have restricted [2:27] conversion therapy, often on a bipartisan basis. Colorado is one of those states. [2:32] What this law says is you can't try to force someone, pressure someone, make someone feel bad, [2:37] harm someone because of who they say they are. But does it stop a therapist from helping a child [2:44] better align with their biological sex if that's what they want? This law allows children to be [2:51] their best authentic selves, whatever it is. It doesn't put a thumb on the scale. [2:55] But a Christian therapist in Colorado sued the state over this law saying it violates [3:01] her free speech rights, her ability to speak to clients in the privacy of a session about their [3:07] child. What is it that you believe you want to say but can't say under this law? [3:12] So if someone comes into the office and they say, um, I am a biological male and I have been [3:22] living and presenting as a female for a while now, then those are the clients who I cannot have [3:29] a full conversation with. And the Supreme court yesterday, eight to one, as you noted, [3:35] said that that type of law is likely in the words of Justice Neal, [3:38] Gorsuch, censorship of speech based on viewpoint. Eight justices joining together to say laws like [3:45] Colorado regulating what a therapist can and cannot say to clients effectively violates the [3:51] first amendment. In the case of Colorado, Colorado says that therapists can affirm a client's sexual [3:57] orientation, can support them, but cannot try to help them overcome it. And the justices said [4:04] that type of line simply doesn't fly no matter what, uh, the most, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, [4:08] uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, [4:08] uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, [4:08] uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, [4:09] motives were in passing that type of legislation. Well, and this has been so divisive among, [4:13] especially members of the far religious right and the LGBTQ community. But this was not a contentious [4:20] decision. It sounded like it was eight to one. Why is that? Well, two of the courts, liberal [4:24] justices, in fact, the most senior liberal justice, Sonia Sotomayor, Justice Elena Kagan [4:29] joined a concurring opinion together, uh, agreeing with what the court ultimately said here. Uh, [4:35] And what they warned of in essence, Brad, is that what if a state were allowed to do the reverse? [4:41] And Justice Kagan raised a hypothetical scenario of, say, a red state, conservative state, passing a law that said therapists are not allowed to affirm a person's sexual orientation or affirm their desired gender identity. [4:56] Like to say that is a standard in this state. [4:58] You may not step outside those bounds. [4:59] That's right. [5:00] And even though that would make some people uncomfortable, they said these types of lines simply can't be drawn. [5:05] Should note that Justice Ketanji Brown-Jackson read her dissent, lone dissent, aloud from the bench yesterday. [5:12] That is a rare practice and one that usually happens as a sign of the vehemence of dissent. [5:19] She talked passionately about gay and lesbian kids who would be harmed by this type of ruling. [5:25] And in her view and the state of Colorado's view, this is simply this type of law is simply medical regulation. [5:31] That the fact it happens to be speech used by therapists. [5:35] This is simply incidental to the fact that this is a medical treatment and that states should have the right. [5:40] And in fact, they do have the right in other contexts to regulate those treatments. [5:44] OK, so then this now goes back to lower courts with this kind of guidance from the justices. [5:48] But if these laws get overturned, Devin, what kind of effect could that have? [5:51] Because we we have heard absolute horror stories from Americans who say, you know, I was shipped off to one of these camps back in the day. [5:58] It was relentless. [5:59] It made me like a worse adult going forward in life because of that experience. [6:03] So what happens now? [6:05] Well. [6:05] The American Psychiatric Association and LGBTQ advocates, Brad said, in no uncertain terms that this decision rolling back these types of laws will end up harming kids that, you know, confuse young people trying to figure themselves out. [6:18] We'll now encounter therapists who will try to change them. [6:21] And they say bottom line is that is not good. [6:24] But it is a little unclear what the immediate impact will be. [6:29] What does the science say about the effectiveness of conversion therapy? [6:33] That there is none. [6:36] Conversion therapy of 20, 30, 40 years ago also involved physical techniques and, you know, conversion camps and the like. [6:44] Pray away the gay, if you will. [6:45] A lot of those have faded away, you know, although they are still practiced. [6:50] When you ask people who have engaged in those kinds of therapies, they will say it was harmful to them, that it did not free them from stigma, from shame, but rather it compounded that stigma or shame. [7:03] And it's not clear how. [7:05] What Kaylee Childs, the therapist who brought this case, what she says she wants to do would end up harming someone. [7:12] I mean, her case all along has been that she is encountering parents, young clients who simply want to be able to talk about these issues. [7:20] And she had feared prosecution by the state of Colorado. [7:23] I'm grateful that my speech is protected, but I'm even more excited that families and children seeking access to counseling that respects biological reality will be able to get the help that they need. [7:34] It's. [7:35] Not immediately clear, although, you know, religious liberty groups, free speech groups, parents groups are saying this is a great thing. [7:41] It gives parents options. [7:42] It opens the door. [7:43] But the bottom line, Brad, the Supreme Court says states can't restrict what therapists can and cannot say in treatment as if it was any other type of medical care. [7:51] And that is a big change. [7:53] And a lot of those states that have similar laws to Colorado's will likely see efforts to roll them back. [7:58] Yeah, really emotional reactions from people on both sides of this case. [8:01] In the meantime, Devin Dwyer, another big case coming up at the court today. [8:04] We know you'll be in there. [8:05] For those birthright citizenship arguments. [8:07] We'll talk to you later. [8:08] Thank you. [8:08] Hey, thanks, Brad. [8:11] Now, while the White House praised the Supreme Court for its ruling on conversion therapy, a series of judges yesterday delivered blows to President Trump's ambitions, including, most notably, his construction of the east wing of the White House. [8:24] But remember, the east wing has already been demolished. [8:27] ABC's national correspondent, Stephen Portnoy, has been following the legal challenges with all this. [8:31] Stephen, is this ballroom getting built or what? [8:34] Well, according to Judge Richard Leon, it can get built. [8:36] But really. [8:37] The question isn't for you or for me or for the president. [8:39] It's for America's elected representatives in Congress to decide. [8:43] So the National Endowment for Historic Preservation went into court in December arguing that the president didn't seek congressional authority to deconstruct the east wing and build a ballroom in its place. [8:54] Well, we built many things at the White House over the years. [8:57] They don't get congressional approval when they build in the White House. [9:00] It's totally separate. [9:01] And especially when it's a donation. [9:04] I mean, the ballroom is a donation. [9:05] And they also argued that. [9:07] The president didn't take the proper steps by going to various commissions and boards that have been stood up to review federal construction projects. [9:15] So the administration has done that. [9:16] They've gone to the National Capital Planning Commission and the Commission on Fine Arts, and they're getting all those necessary approvals. [9:22] But the judge noted that there's this 1912 law that says that no building or structure can be constructed on federal land in Washington, D.C., without express authority of Congress. [9:34] And that's something the judge really seized on. [9:36] He also pointed to the fact that. [9:36] There's a big legal question mark over the funding mechanism. [9:41] The president has said that taxpayer money is not on the line here, that it's all private funds, $400 million to build this ballroom. [9:47] We didn't ask for any tax money. [9:48] We have no taxes. [9:49] It's taxpayer free. [9:51] We have no taxpayer putting up 10 cents. [9:54] But Judge Leon has described that as an end run around congressional oversight. [9:58] And he said it's Congress that holds the keys to the nation's property. [10:02] The president isn't the owner of the White House, but merely its steward. [10:05] But here's what I'm confused about, Stephen. [10:06] It's already gone. [10:07] It's on the ground. [10:08] So if you tell the Trump administration, hey, you've got to get approval, what if no one can approve? [10:12] We just don't have an East Wing anymore? [10:13] Well, and one other argument the White House has made is that this is somehow imperiling to national security by having this open pit east of the White House. [10:21] Well, Judge Leon, in his 35-page opinion, says that that's a problem of the president's own making. [10:27] And he used an exclamation point at the end of that sentence, one of 19 that I counted over 35 pages in a very colorful opinion by this George W. [10:36] Bush appointee. [10:37] Wait, so if there's 14 days before this gets in force, I assume that's what, 14 days worth of appeals? [10:41] Or how is President Trump handling this? [10:44] Yeah, it's a two-week period where the administration is likely to appeal to the D.C. Circuit Court. [10:48] He's so wrong. [10:50] This is being financed privately. [10:52] It's a donation that's being given by companies, very rich companies, very rich people. [10:58] Something that Judge Leon has said he expected would happen. [11:01] President Trump late yesterday put out a social media post really blasting the people who brought this lawsuit. [11:07] The National Trust for Historic Preservation, which the president called a radical left group of lunatics. [11:13] The judge says this is really simple for the president to dig himself out of this hole. [11:17] All he has to do is go to the House and Senate and ask for what would really be maybe a sentence or two in a simple bill that would authorize the construction of the ballroom on the White House grounds. [11:27] And the judge said that if that were to happen, the country would get a sense of what it looks like for the branches to work as they're intended. [11:33] In the meantime, Stephen, because that wasn't even the only case that really targeted what President Trump. [11:37] Has personally really put his weight behind. [11:40] You know, the White House and Doge also cut funding to NPR, PBS, these public broadcasters that so many Americans have relied on. [11:46] There was a big ruling there yesterday as well. [11:48] Another federal district court judge here in Washington ruled against President Trump in that case, Brad. [11:53] It involved the executive order the president signed last year that aimed to defund NPR and PBS and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. [12:02] What's important here is the idea that, you know, this executive order was followed up by congressional. [12:08] Action where the House and Senate did vote to rescind more than a billion dollars in taxpayer money that would have funded public broadcasting over two fiscal years. [12:16] And that, the judge says, can't be undone. [12:19] I mean, that is the decision of the people's elected representatives. [12:25] Separate from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which received a direct subsidy from Congress, which no longer exists, the entity no longer exists. [12:33] The executive order also had an impact on federal agencies like the Department of Education, the National Endowment for the Humanities, [12:39] the National Endowment for the Arts, HHS, and in as much as that executive order might still apply to those agencies, [12:46] the judge says it violates the First Amendment and it amounts to viewpoint discrimination. [12:51] The president can't decide that a particular entity that does news he doesn't like because he views it as biased and therefore it can't receive federal funds. [13:00] That, the judge said, Judge Randolph Moss, violates the First Amendment. [13:04] Right. The through line of the day seemed to be like, you can do lots of things, just Congress can do lots of things. [13:08] Not just the president on their own side. [13:09] All right, Stephen Portnoy, thank you so much. [13:11] You got it, Brad. [13:13] Next up on Start Here, if the U.S. wants to pack it up, well, that doesn't mean Israel will. [13:18] War forces are moving into Lebanon after the break. [13:21] Yesterday, President Trump gave several interviews to reporters on the phone, including our own Jonathan Karl. [13:33] If Trump was worried about the U.S. getting stuck in a Middle Eastern quagmire, he certainly wasn't showing it. [13:39] B-52 bombers are now flying freely over Iran, clearly less afraid of Iranian defenses. [13:44] Trump repeatedly talked about withdrawing. [13:46] From the street of Hormuz. [13:48] In a phone call, the president told me of our allies. [13:51] They can police it themselves. [13:53] Why should I do it for them? [13:55] They weren't there for me. [13:56] At the moment, you think that might lead to something like Iran launching strikes on ships, crippling the world economy. [14:02] Trump said it would essentially work itself out. [14:05] Within the span of an hour, stock prices had risen significantly. [14:09] We now know the president plans to make a major announcement about Iran tonight at the White House. [14:14] Could it be a withdrawal? [14:15] Regardless. [14:16] If the U.S. plans to withdraw its troops soon, that doesn't necessarily apply to Israel. [14:24] Israel has spent the last two and a half years decimating Hamas in Gaza. [14:28] They're now pounding Iran, but they've also been relentlessly bombarding Hezbollah in Lebanon. [14:36] And yesterday, they announced not only will they move more ground troops across the border into southern Lebanon, [14:42] but that they might be destroying entire neighborhoods, whether civilians live there or not. [14:47] ABC's foreign correspondent Britt Clennett is in Jerusalem right now. [14:50] Britt, I know Israel. [14:51] Israeli troops had been in Lebanon a couple of weeks. [14:53] They were careful to call it a limited operation, not an invasion. [14:56] What is happening there now? [14:58] Well, we're seeing the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force, pushing further and further into southern Lebanon. [15:06] And we heard from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who said that he's going to order his military to expand operations in southern Lebanon. [15:15] And what Israel says it's trying to do is create a buffer zone to protect Israel. [15:21] It's trying to protect its own residents from Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran, which has fired towards Israel since the start of the war and even before then. [15:32] But Hezbollah still has residual capability to launch rockets at us. [15:42] What I discussed today with the commanders here are the ways to remove this threat as well. [15:47] So certainly we're hearing more rhetoric from Israel. [15:51] About clearing out people who live in the south. [15:55] We heard from the Defense Minister Israel Katz, who said 600,000 residents of southern Lebanon are prohibited from returning until the safety and security of Israeli residents in the north of Israel. [16:10] So all houses in villages near the border will be destroyed and they will not be able to return. [16:18] But wait, wait, Britt. [16:19] So it's one thing to tell. [16:20] Your own people don't live near the border. [16:23] It's not safe. [16:23] It's another thing to tell another country, hey, your people are not allowed to live near your border. [16:29] And if they're anywhere close to our border, we will go across your border and essentially demolish their houses. [16:35] They can't live there anymore. [16:36] And let's be clear, Hezbollah is a designated terror group. [16:38] It's launched many deadly attacks on Israel, but this would just be clearing out anyone from like a whole swath of their land. [16:45] What is the reaction there? [16:46] Well, look, we're talking about more than a million people evacuated. [16:50] You know, that's a fifth of the Lebanese population. [16:58] That's a huge number. [17:00] So, of course, there is a lot of concern among rights groups, European nations, Canada and the U.N. [17:08] They've also criticized this announcement. [17:11] Now, the phrase that is worrying rights organizations and causing some alarm is the phrase that he said. [17:18] That's according to the model of Rafa and Beit HaNun in Gaza. [17:22] Lebanon cannot become another. [17:24] Gaza and we've heard a senior minister allude to the quote unquote Gaza model. [17:29] Now, that reference to Gaza, it is causing alarm because what it means is raising it to the ground. [17:36] And we have heard from previous Israeli officials about Israel's intentions in southern Lebanon and how there is a comparison to Gaza, making sure that people can't return there. [17:48] So it is causing a lot of alarm. [17:50] And we heard from the U.N. [17:52] refugee agency as well, saying. [17:54] That that area is facing a humanitarian catastrophe. [17:58] In the meantime, in Israel itself, a new law has been passed that allows for death by hanging. [18:04] This apparently applies to convicted terrorists. [18:06] But this has been greeted with a ton of controversy. [18:08] Oh, yeah. I mean, this is highly controversial. [18:11] It had been in the mix for some time. [18:15] It was advocated and devised by far right a national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gavir. [18:22] He is quite notorious. [18:24] You know, he wore noose shaped lapel pins in the weeks before this vote and rights groups are saying it's discriminatory because the law would not apply to Israelis who killed Palestinians under similar conditions. [18:41] Now, the law will make the death penalty by hanging the default punishment for West Bank Palestinians convicted of murdering Israelis. [18:50] And it stipulates that the death penalty will apply. [18:52] That the death penalty will apply for anyone who intentionally or negligently causes the death of an Israeli citizen or out of racist or hateful motives and harm to Israel. [19:08] Capital punishment, it does exist already in Israel, but it hasn't actually really been used. [19:13] You know, the last person it was used towards was a Nazi war criminal in 1962 who was executed. [19:21] Wow. [19:21] There is a chance that the new law could be, you know, structured in a way that would allow for the death penalty to be applied for anyone who intentionally or negligently causes the death of an Israeli citizen or out of racist or hateful motives and harm to Israel. [19:23] The new law could be, you know, struck down by Israel's Supreme Court, but you know, a lot of rights groups I speak to or people in the country who are concerned about the democratic direction of Israel are worried that this new death penalty law creates more of a division between Israelis and the Palestinian population and is taking the country in a direction of division instead of, you know, building a divide. [19:48] Right. [19:49] Right. [19:51] Right. [19:52] Right. [19:53] a future together and finding out a solution to this conflict. [19:57] I was going to say, because you have all these tensions with Muslim countries nearby. [20:00] We're talking about the West Bank, literally in the backyard of Jerusalem, [20:03] where Brick Clinic actually just returned from today doing some reporting. [20:06] Brick Clinic, we'll talk to you later. Thank you so much. [20:08] Thanks so much, Brad. [20:11] Okay, one more quick break. [20:12] When we come back, no one has seen the far side of the moon with their own eyes for 50 years. [20:18] Now the countdown is on. [20:19] One last thing is next. [20:20] Hey, let's go to the moon! [20:26] And one last thing. [20:27] The countdown is on. [20:29] We are now in the final hours before America goes back to the moon, nearby it at least. [20:35] How excited are you for this launch? [20:37] Oh, it's very exciting. [20:38] I mean, this is the first return to the moon in more than 50 years. [20:41] This is ABC's Matthew Glasser, who covers space and will be watching with bated breath [20:46] as Artemis II takes off this evening from Florida. [20:49] And it's a mission of many firsts. [20:51] The first woman to the moon. [20:53] I am so grateful to those that paved the way for me to be here and for all of us to be here. [20:57] The first person of color to the moon. [20:59] The first Canadian to the moon. [21:01] And a new rocket that humans have never flown in. [21:04] Now last week we talked about how NASA has outlined its bold vision for these Artemis missions. [21:09] So that we can continue to explore and establish a moon base and then continue to work towards getting to Mars. [21:15] Eventually they want to place humans on the moon and even set up a lunar base. [21:19] This step is just about making sure we can get there. [21:22] This is not a landing mission. [21:23] They won't be landing this time. [21:25] But they'll test a lot of the critical systems, the life support, the communications. [21:28] Everything you would need to eventually... [21:30] get astronauts into a position to get to the moon. [21:32] This evening the plan is for the Orion spacecraft to take off with humans inside of it for the first time. [21:38] Three Americans, one Canadian. [21:40] It'll take four days to get to the moon. [21:42] Then on day five it'll slingshot around and head home. [21:45] So if they end up going today and it's not scrubbed because of weather or technical issues, [21:51] they're going to go further past the moon than any humans in history. [21:55] They're going to beat the Apollo astronauts. [21:57] They're going to be the furthest away from Earth. [21:59] You heard the key caveat there, if it doesn't get scrubbed. [22:05] This launch has been delayed several times for several different reasons, including fuel leaking. [22:11] So one of the biggest challenges that this rocket has had is the fueling. [22:14] It uses a hydrogen fuel, a liquefied, very cold hydrogen fuel. [22:19] Hydrogen molecules are very small, very hard to keep them where you want to keep them. [22:23] They leak fairly easily. [22:25] Another concern, as always, is weather. [22:27] This was supposed to happen earlier this year, but you might remember about half [22:30] the country got walloped by winter storms. [22:33] Matthew says at the moment, weather conditions are 80 percent go, which apparently is pretty good. [22:38] If there is a passing cloud, astronauts have a two hour window to take off. [22:43] It's from 624 p.m. Eastern to 824 tonight. [22:47] Matthew says there is uncertainty here. [22:49] There always is. [22:50] And there's going to be a lot of things that they're trying for the first time. [22:53] Missions like this are never 100 percent perfect. [22:56] So there are likely to be hiccups along the way. [22:58] But that's also the beauty of this. [22:59] Going to the moon means pushing yourself, soaring beyond what you thought possible. [23:04] That's called a moonshot. [23:06] And by tonight, we could be back on our way there. [23:12] Again, the launch itself this evening and can catch up on ABC News Live. [23:15] Matthew says probably tune in around 6 p.m. for all the good stuff. [23:18] Big news. [23:19] They said they would be taking one journalist on this flight this morning. [23:22] We can finally reveal it's me. [23:24] I will be on Artemis to feel so good to say this. [23:27] After training for all these months, that happens tonight, April 1st, meaning [23:30] April Fool's Day, y'all. I'm Brad Milkey. [23:33] I'll see you tomorrow.