Rep. Jason Crow says U.S. is "not good at having off ramps" in Middle East conflicts

[0:00] We go now to Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow, who's joining us from Sedona, Arizona, where he's attending the McCain Institute Forum. [0:07] Good morning to you. [0:09] Hi. Good morning, Margaret. [0:11] So I want to ask you about some developing news. [0:13] We learned late Friday that there was a decision made by Secretary Hagseth, and the two Republican chairs of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees are objecting to it. [0:24] They are very concerned by Hagseth's order to withdraw a U.S. brigade from Germany. [0:30] They said it was not coordinated with Congress. [0:33] And yesterday, President Trump said on top of the 5,000 that was announced, he wants to pull even more troops out of Germany. [0:40] What is the effect of doing so? [0:44] Well, first of all, it's not just a lack of coordination or just Congress's preference that we want this to be on. [0:49] This is law. [0:50] There's actually law in place that both the House and the Senate passed on a bipartisan basis that sets certain conditions for movement of our troops around Europe. [0:58] And we passed these laws out of grave concern for rhetoric by this administration in the past that they were going to draw down our presence in Europe, which is one of the most important troop footprints we have in the world that helps secure Europe, helps secure our economy, helps protect the hundreds of thousands of American citizens who live and work on the continent. [1:18] So we are enforcing the law and the requirements. [1:22] Second is it appears as though this decision was made because Donald Trump was upset by a comment made by the German chancellor. [1:30] Like he is getting emotional and angry about this and he's making really consequential troop decision, troop movement decisions based upon, you know, being upset by the comments of a foreign leader, which is no way to run a foreign policy. [1:45] So we're looking into it and we're going to make sure that any movements, if they do occur, are actually in our interests. [1:50] You're talking about the chancellor of Germany saying that a whole nation is being humiliated by the Iranian leadership. [1:57] I mean, that's a pretty strong statement from an ally. [2:00] But in regard to pulling troops out of that country, we'll still have at least 30,000 troops or so in Germany. [2:11] Isn't that still within the legal framework? [2:13] I believe that the floor is set to 76,000 in Europe, but the president can go below it if he certifies to Congress. [2:19] It's in the national interest. [2:21] Why do you think there is a violation? [2:25] Well, that's exactly the assessment we have to go through. [2:27] You know, what we know is that the president is making a decision based upon a comment that he didn't like by a foreign leader. [2:33] So that alone is very concerning to us. [2:36] It should be concerning to every American that you have the president of the United States, a commander in chief, who's going to move thousands of troops around just to get back at a foreign leader for a comment that he doesn't like. [2:47] But I'm not presumptively against troop movements. [2:49] Like if we need to move troops or brigades around to respond to national security issues, we should by all means do that. [2:55] That's the prerogative of the commander in chief. [2:58] When I was in the military, you know, we would move forces around all the time. [3:02] My point is we actually have to make sure that this is being done according to the risks that our forces are facing, that it's being done on the proper timeline, [3:11] because moving troops and units around is very risky and exposes them to a variety of risks, and that it's in the best interest of the United States. [3:19] And right now, sitting here, what we know is that this isn't a decision that's driven by the best interests of our troops and Americans. [3:26] It's a decision based upon the emotion of Donald Trump. [3:29] Do you think the U.S. can end the war or whatever we're in with Iran right now without clearing that Strait of Hormuz? [3:36] Do you expect a return to combat? [3:39] Well, first of all, it's Iran that's blockading the Strait of Hormuz. [3:43] We're blockading their blockade. [3:45] I think the real question that we should all be asking is, does America really want to continue to have conflict in the Middle East for another, you know, 5, 10, 20 years? [3:56] The problem is, is that we have confused as a nation. [3:59] We have confused as a nation tactics versus strategy. [4:04] Most of the conversation around Iran is about tactics. [4:07] Should we blockade? [4:09] How do we counter drones? [4:11] You know, who is moving oil around where? [4:14] What is our strategy? [4:16] Right? [4:16] We spent trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan to replace the Taliban with the Taliban, [4:22] in Iraq to replace Saddam Hussein with ISIS. [4:25] We are not good at having off-ramps and accomplishing large strategic decisions in the Middle East, right? [4:32] And this is just yet another example of that. [4:35] So let's actually talk strategy and what it is we're trying to accomplish here instead of having a constant discussion around blockades. [4:41] So when Secretary Hegseth was before your committee this week and he was asking for this $1.5 trillion budget request, [4:48] are Democrats going to say no until they get those answers or do you have to fund the troops who are in harm's way? [4:53] Well, I'm just going to say no regardless of, you know, what's going on in one area because we don't need that money, right? [5:02] The Department of Defense has never passed an audit, never in the history of that department. [5:08] It's the only government agency in the U.S. government that cannot tell us how they're spending money. [5:14] We have already funded munition stockpiles amounts. [5:17] And what I am not going to do is continue the pattern like we continue to Iraq and Afghanistan of throwing good money after bad [5:25] and constantly funding conflicts that never end and will not end up in a good result for America, right? [5:33] That is exactly what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. [5:35] And somebody has to say enough is enough. [5:39] Somebody has to step up and say we're just not going to do it. [5:41] And a president that hasn't told us what the strategy is, hasn't come to Congress for authorization, [5:47] hasn't even articulated to the American people what he's trying to accomplish, [5:51] I am not going to write blank checks to have that cycle continue. [5:55] I'm not going to do it. [5:56] I want to ask you about another decision. [5:59] Section 702 is that warrantless surveillance program that's used to collect communications of foreigners abroad, [6:05] including when they're interacting with Americans. [6:08] Your Democratic colleague, Jim Himes, who is in that powerful position on House intelligence, [6:13] called it the most important foreign intelligence tool America has. [6:17] He said he has seen no evidence that the Trump administration is misusing it. [6:22] Yet you have voted no on a long-term extension. [6:27] What evidence do you have of abuse or violations of it? [6:31] Well, here's the problem we have. [6:33] Jim Himes is right. [6:34] This is an incredibly important tool that helps prevent terrorist attacks. [6:38] It gives us intelligence on our adversaries that helps protect our troops, [6:41] which is why I've always supported it. [6:44] But right now, in the last year, we have seen a president that routinely ignores legal decisions. [6:50] You know, they are ignoring more than a third of court rulings against them, routinely violating the law. [6:56] Hell, in February, they actually politicized DOJ and they tried to put me in prison. [7:01] They tried to indict me and other members of Congress simply for stating what the law is [7:05] and what the obligation of our service members are. [7:07] But your committee chair is begging for it to be extended and saying there's no misuse of it. [7:11] What I am saying is I am not willing to give a very long runway to this administration [7:18] on a very powerful intelligence tool when they have routinely shown to the American people and to us [7:24] that they violate the law and they don't respect the law. [7:26] I will do a short-term extension and then we will oversee that program. [7:30] And we will guarantee I will look at it hard every single month. [7:34] And if they're abusing it, if they're strained from the law, then we pull it back. [7:39] But giving them a three-year runway gets rid of all of our leverage. [7:43] If we give them a three-year reauthorization, what are we going to do if a year from now, [7:47] 18 months from now, they start violating the program and abusing it? [7:50] We have no recourse. [7:52] Well, right now it goes until June 12th with this short-term extension. [7:56] Jason Crow, thank you, Congressman, for joining us this morning.