Rebels Rising: What's Driving India's Split Politics?

[0:00] Operation Tiger has reached its culmination. Six MPs from the Shiv Sena UBT joined Eknath [0:05] Shinde's Shiv Sena officially today. And the jubilation, the happiness was visible. [0:12] Sharing a stage with the six new joinees, Eknath Shinde, called them real tigers, [0:16] even claimed that he now had scored a six. [0:20] Odaf Thakre, who had already branded these rebels as gaddar, as traitor, [0:25] today perhaps sense that there could be more trouble ahead. [0:30] On the opening day of Maharashtra Assembly's budget session, [0:34] Odaf Thakre called a meeting of all his MLAs and MLCs. But here too, there was a twist in the tale. [0:41] One MLC and three MLAs of the Sena UBT simply didn't turn up. They skipped this meeting as well. [0:50] And it's a very, very ominous sign because remember, this brings back memories of this [0:55] meeting of MPs that had been called at Matushree two weeks ago. Remember that meeting that took [0:59] place over the weekend? At that time, the six MPs who today are rebels, they had remained absent. [1:07] At that time, Odaf Thakre, Sanjay Rao, they had claimed that these MPs had joined virtually, [1:13] that they had already informed the leadership of why they could not be in attendance. But [1:17] everyone could sense that something was amiss. And here we are now. Now, as for today's meeting, [1:24] among those who remained absent was MLC Sunil Shinde, who had vacated his worldly seat for Aditya [1:31] Thakre in 2019. He is supposed to be one of the most trusted aides of Odaf Thakre himself. [1:37] Among the MLAs, those who went MIA were Sanjay Darekar, MLA from Vani in Yavatmal. Then there was [1:45] Rahul Patil, who represents Parbhani. And Sanjay Portniss, who had won from Kalina in Mumbai. [1:50] A total of four leaders, three MLAs, one MLC, all supposed to be in the close circle of [1:57] Uddhav Thakre, they gave this meeting a skip. And if you thought that this was all a coincidence, [2:04] when this very question was asked to Eknath Shinde, his reply was, are you sure? Only three [2:10] are missing. [2:11] I'm missing. [2:18] I'm missing. [2:22] 4-4. [2:23] 4-4. [2:24] 4-4. [2:25] 4-4. [2:26] 4-4. [2:27] 4-4. [2:33] 7. [2:34] 5. [2:35] 5. [2:36] 5. [2:37] 5. [2:38] 5. [2:39] 7. [2:40] 10. [2:41] 8. [2:42] 7. [2:44] 8. [2:45] 8. [2:46] 10. [2:47] 11. [2:48] 9. [2:52] 10. [2:53] 10. [2:54] 5. [2:55] 10. [2:56] 10. [2:57] 11. [2:58] 11. [3:01] 11. [3:02] 12. [3:06] 12. [3:10] 11. [3:11] 11. [3:12] 12. [3:14] You can't go to the Robert Suggs on. [3:20] You can do it. [3:21] There's a picture. [3:22] My parents there. [3:23] These are three外arafrais and Aisha. [3:24] And you can do it. [3:25] Three. [3:26] Three. [3:27] Three. [3:29] Three. [3:30] Three. [3:31] Three. [3:32] Three. [3:33] Three. [3:37] Three. [3:39] Three. [3:43] Three. [3:45] Three. [3:47] Three. [3:48] If the Deputy Chief Minister Ignath Shinde was talking in clues, he ominously seemed [3:59] to suggest that perhaps more than three to four MLAs could go missing in the near future. [4:05] His other leaders were quite clear. [4:06] They said Operation Tiger Part 3 has already started. [4:10] And this, by the way, is happening on a day not just when you see all this flux in Maharashtra. [4:16] This is also on a day when the Trinamool Congress saw yet another jolt. [4:20] In a meeting held by the rebel faction of the Trinamool today, a completely new organizational [4:25] structure was put in place. [4:27] Mamata Banerjee was removed as the chairperson of the National Working Committee. [4:31] New general secretaries and VPs were appointed. [4:34] And surprise, surprise, guess who is now also in the rebel faction and appointed a vice president [4:40] there? [4:41] Sirhad Hakeem. [4:42] Yes, the same Bobby Hakeem who Mamata Banerjee called like her own blood brother. [4:48] She said he's not just an MLA. [4:49] He's not just a close aide. [4:51] He's like my very brother. [4:53] Also the same Farhad Hakeem who, by the way, has been attacked by the BJP for being blatantly [4:58] communal. [4:59] Remember the time when his statement about his seat of harbour being a little Pakistan was [5:05] bandied about the BJP? [5:06] Now, are they on the same side of the ideological divide? [5:11] So the question we ask today is with the winds of change sweeping across the country, what [5:16] does India think about these political manoeuvres? [5:20] Here's what a sea voter snap poll found. [5:23] And before that, let me quickly introduce to you the guests who are joining us today on [5:26] the show. [5:27] We have got Rohan Gupta joining us from the BJP. [5:30] We also have Anand Dubey from the Shiv Sena UBT joining us. [5:34] Senior journalist Rashid Kidwai is with us, along with journalist Varun Singh live with us [5:39] from Mumbai. [5:40] So here's a look at the numbers, which I'm sure Rohan Gupta and Anand Dubey will both [5:44] be quite interested in. [5:46] First up, sea voter asked the people, is switching political parties a betrayal of the mandate? [5:52] And here is what the people surveyed said. [5:54] Yes, 73.9% of the people said it is a betrayal of the mandate given to them. [6:00] Only 12.6% said no. [6:02] 13.5% said can't say. [6:04] Now let's take a look at the next set of numbers. [6:07] The second question that was asked of the people who were surveyed by sea voter, they [6:12] said, what's the main reason behind these leaders changing their party? [6:18] So what is the main reason? [6:20] Pressure and inducement said 35.3%. [6:23] 28.9% said it's personal ambition. [6:27] Although everyone will tell you that we are going to save the country, it's all about ideology. [6:30] It's about going back to the real Shiv Sena. [6:32] 28.9% put it down to personal ambition. [6:35] 12.6% think it is a better chance in future polls. [6:38] And only 6.2% put it down to ideological difference. [6:42] So let me start with you, Rohan Gupta. [6:45] People clearly are not buying your argument. [6:47] Is switching political parties a betrayal of the mandate? [6:50] And the voter says, yes, it is. [6:52] It is a betrayal. [6:54] Rohan Gupta. [6:54] When you talk about people's mandate, I think elections are the best parameters, right? [7:01] So Padmaja, we are forgetting the fact that two elections have happened after these two [7:05] factions happened. [7:06] One was the Lok Sabha election and after that Vidhan Sabha election, assembly elections of [7:10] Maharashtra. [7:11] In Lok Sabha, when they won more seats, obviously, ideologically, Uttav Thakre made a 360 degree [7:17] shift from the old ideology of Bala Sabha Thakre and switching and supporting Congress party [7:23] in NCP. [7:24] Still, there was a core voter which supported. [7:26] Maybe they have the hope from UBT that yes, they will do something. [7:30] They voted for them and then the Lok Tantra won at the time of Lok Sabha election. [7:34] Just after six months, when the Vidhan Sabha election came, I'll give you one small example [7:38] of major incident which has happened in between was the Vak amendment bill where Uttav Thakre [7:44] openly opposed that Vak amendment bill. [7:47] I'm giving you very, very specific example. [7:49] And the same time, these Bangladesh Hindus were attacked and Uttav Thakre never came out [7:53] and spoke even a single word. [7:54] So, people who have joined in assumption that maybe Uttav Thakre is following the Bala Sabha [8:01] Thakre's ideology, they understood that no, that is not the case and that's why they lost [8:06] assembly election very, very badly. [8:08] Okay, ideology, sir, yaad aya, suddenly Rohan Gupta, since we are talking about these shifts [8:12] happening across the country, is Virhad Hakeem also now your ideology? [8:15] Because he is going to be with this camp. [8:18] Virhad Hakeem bhi aapke rung mein rung gaya, bo nationalists over. [8:20] Absolutely not. [8:21] He is not in BJP, so I will definitely answer for something which is related to BJP. [8:26] Number one. [8:27] Number two, everybody says that, okay, BJP is responsible, opposition parties are saying [8:31] that, oh, in Maharashtra, BJP is doing that. [8:33] Why wouldn't we ensure that these MPs should have joined BJP and not Shiv Sena, Sindegro? [8:40] Absolutely. [8:41] So, BJP definitely, as NDA, we want our numbers to be higher. [8:44] At the end of the day, BJP knows how to win elections. [8:47] We are not required to do all of these things. [8:50] Even in West Bengal, we have got strong, decisive mandate. [8:53] Even in Maharashtra, we have got strong, decisive mandate. [8:55] We are following the mandate of the people. [8:57] We are working on our agenda. [8:59] And that's why we are successful. [9:00] Okay, so you respectfully disagree and ultimately, ultimately, people have given them the mandate. [9:06] Anand Dube, logo ka mandate tu milahi hai. [9:08] Jabh bhi koi chhod karke aya hai, election mein, uske baad, NDA ko safalta me li hai. [9:12] Toh, yarni ki, loog is decision ke saat rahe hai. [9:19] Sayi baat, sayi baat. [9:20] Padraashi, namaste, sabhi ko merah praadam. [9:24] Sabh sari hai. [9:25] Sir, jitne, jitne, jitne, aapke MLA MP kam ho raha hai na, utna zahada, aap bhagwa hotte ja raha hai. [9:30] Pahalye, aap kabhi bhagwa ya haan pe safa ndal ke aate thay, aaj aapne tripund bhi laga diya. [9:35] Kal to aap ya haan pe maham rityun jaya, ja pina on air karne lage jaya, anand Dube. [9:39] Duh, tín, or loogok ke tụtnay ki kamhi hai. [9:41] Bholye. [9:43] Padmijaj ji, Padmijaj ji, maanau apna moon sobhau nahin chhoڑ saktta. [9:50] Tho phir UBIT nikal dhe. [9:51] Saan apna sobhau nahin chhoڑ saktta. [9:53] Oeysa hii, mein aapna sobhau, mein sanatni hou, sanatni tha, sanatni rahaun ga. [9:58] Dekhi, Padmijaj ji, vishai ye nahi ki aaj 6 loog chhoڑ ke gai. [10:02] Yeh loog to 16 tariq ko hii chalye gai thay. [10:05] Aaj to keval yeh tanse voha pahunche hai. [10:08] Yeh man se to 4 din pahle hii chalye gai thay. [10:11] Koi baat nahi. [10:12] Jho chala gaya, oho humara tha hii nahi. [10:15] Jho humara hai, oho kabhi jayega hii nahi. [10:18] Yehi toh jivan ki satcha hii hai. [10:20] Yeh 2014 mein, siusena party ke naam se chunau lđe. [10:24] Unkei chin se chunau lđe. [10:26] 9 loog chunkar ae. [10:27] Hamei laga, chalo, niya naam hai, niya chin hai. [10:30] Anndaj vohi purana hai. [10:32] Or hum aapne paas in loog ko rakhye gai. [10:34] Or aapne saath aagye badaayen gai. [10:37] Achanak ho naaraj hootate hai, sab chalye jate hai. [10:39] Hame kisiko doost nahi dhenge. [10:41] Padmijaj ji, securo debate ho chukyi hai. [10:43] Ki yeh party yaan kiise tođi jatei hai, [10:45] sanat kiise bhaagaya jatei hai. [10:47] But abis ki takrar kaahan kare jake. [10:49] Puli station jatei hai, oho loog bhaagaya ditei hai. [10:51] Coat catchari jatei hai, oho loog sunnit tayyar nai hai. [10:54] 2022 se haamare naam o chunau chin ka fesla pending hai. [10:58] Ab 26 aagya. [11:00] 100-200 saal baad jarur uska nirna hai ga. [11:02] Tab tuk hum sab rrhengi hai nai. [11:04] No, no, but Rohan Kupna kya raha hai ki dhekhe, [11:05] loog sab ke babuji hume vote daal raha hai, [11:08] ane ki loog iska samarthan karta hai. [11:10] People agree with these decisions. [11:12] Main vahhi kya raha ho ki loog, [11:14] joh loog pasand kar raha hai, [11:16] hum vahhi sunengi. [11:18] Ho, tumko joh pasand vahhi baat kahengi, [11:20] tum dhin ko agar dhin koho, [11:22] to rata kahengi. [11:23] Kya kya? [11:24] Padmijaj ji, bolne layak nahi bachay hai. [11:27] Hum loog abh sirf daya chahate hai, [11:29] aap loogong ki, media ki, [11:31] ki hume bhi bachalo, [11:32] hum loog vipaksh hai, [11:33] aaj se ane wali pidiyaan poochhengi, [11:35] ki vipaksh kaisa hota tha, [11:37] to padmijaj ji gawaad dee sakti hai, [11:39] ki maine vipaksh dhekha tha, [11:41] aakhiri vipaksh dhees ka, [11:42] padmijaj ji ne deekha tha, [11:44] to aap بتa deena, [11:45] kahani bacho ko ane wale, [11:47] aur isse zi ziadha hum kya. [11:48] Aray anand dhubay ji, [11:49] tujh kuch toh ladai ladhi hai, [11:50] this is exactly what they want, [11:51] if you are going to go into submission, [11:53] then what is the point, [11:54] you should fight back, [11:55] but on a serious note, [11:56] varun singh, [11:57] padmijaj ji, [12:01] 2019 me, [12:02] agar hum sao yampi laayen chunke, [12:04] phir us mein satsi bhaag jayenge, [12:06] toh kya ladai ladhenge ab, [12:08] kya ladai ladhenge. [12:09] Thik hai, varun singh ye bata ye, [12:11] let me give you the example of Sanjay Dina Patil, [12:13] one of the six MPs who has crossed over today, [12:16] now he had defeated BJP's candidate to win in 2024, [12:20] now he is also in the NDA, [12:22] he is in the greater NDA pariwar, [12:24] now what's going to happen, [12:26] 2014-2019 BJP won that seat of Mumbai, [12:30] I think it's Mumbai North East, [12:31] BJP wins that seat, [12:33] 2024 Sanjay Dina Patil wins, [12:35] now the BJP kare karta there, [12:36] is going to do what, [12:37] twiddle his thumbs, [12:39] because now you are in the larger pariwar, [12:41] what is he or she supposed to do? [12:43] You know, [12:44] I would just add one more thing, [12:46] in 2009 Sanjay Dina Patil had won that seat, [12:49] when he was with the NCP, [12:51] United NCP, [12:52] and again he won in 2024, [12:54] so Sanjay Dina Patil was there before MPs, [12:58] and also one more thing, [13:01] we also have to understand, [13:02] all this thing is being done, [13:03] to get the delimitation done, [13:05] so that the extra number of seats can be added, [13:07] and Mumbai will have from six to nine, [13:09] so it is expected, [13:10] that out of nine MPs, [13:12] when Sanjay Dina Patil will contest, [13:14] there would be a BJP seat also, [13:15] so that is another reason, [13:17] that I have been told, [13:18] that most of the MPs, [13:19] who are switching over here, [13:20] have been given the assurance, [13:21] that in future, [13:23] you will be accommodated, [13:24] your family members, [13:25] will be accommodated, [13:26] and let me be very honest, [13:28] you know, [13:29] what Anand Dubeji was saying, [13:30] is perfectly true, [13:32] they have lost hope, [13:33] and that is evident, [13:34] in Uddhau Thakere's, [13:35] recently announced tour, [13:37] he is going on a tour, [13:38] from 27 to 29, [13:39] a three day tour in Maharashtra, [13:41] in one day, [13:42] he is covering three districts, [13:43] he is going to be in Yavatmal, [13:47] at 10 30 a.m. on 27th of June, [13:51] and then from there, [13:52] at 2 o'clock, [13:52] in another district, [13:53] Vashim, [13:54] from there at 4 o'clock, [13:55] in Hengoli, [13:56] then he will be staying at Parbhani, [13:59] then on next day, [14:00] at Parbhani at 11 a.m., [14:02] 3 30 at Dharashiv, [14:03] and 8 o'clock, [14:05] he will stay there, [14:06] at Chakrapati Shambhajinagar, [14:08] then 11 o'clock, [14:09] next day in Shildi, [14:09] and from there, [14:10] he will come to Mumbai, [14:11] I have never ever seen, [14:13] any politician, [14:14] who has lost his entire party, [14:17] going and doing a Samparatiata, [14:19] where he spends hardly few hours, [14:21] how are you expected to understand, [14:23] the problems of the people, [14:25] your party people, [14:26] if you are not going to even stay there, [14:27] you are going, [14:28] hold your rank, [14:29] they do not want to rally, [14:30] the leaders over there, [14:32] have been saying, [14:32] that listen to us, [14:33] we are not being heard, [14:34] and that is what, [14:36] I am being saying, [14:37] for a very long time, [14:38] since 2022, [14:39] that Uddhaw Thakre, [14:40] had to head streets, [14:41] if he is unwell, [14:42] his son should head streets, [14:44] they both are staying in Kallanagar, [14:45] they leave Mumbai, [14:46] for a day, [14:47] and they spend, [14:48] districts, [14:50] you are covering in three days, [14:51] and spending like, [14:51] what, [14:52] an hour or two, [14:53] over there, [14:53] okay, [14:54] so that they have lost interest, [14:56] okay, [14:56] Rashid Kidwai, [14:57] opposition has lost interest, [14:58] opposition has, [14:59] you know, [14:59] gone on its knees, [15:01] how is the NDA supposed to be blamed, [15:03] these are people, [15:03] who are fighting like a machine, [15:06] and if you decide to, [15:08] just, [15:09] you know, [15:09] give up, [15:10] what is the NDA supposed to do, [15:11] give you a chance, [15:14] I don't think, [15:16] there is any justification, [15:18] as the survey is also saying, [15:19] it is 78%, [15:20] 73% people, [15:22] think that this is the betrayal, [15:23] of mandate, [15:24] so we should take this, [15:25] sea water, [15:26] this thing on a writing on the wall, [15:28] this is what people want, [15:29] and I am very disappointed, [15:30] that my friend, [15:31] Mr. Rohan Gupta, [15:33] is going against, [15:34] this public opinion, [15:36] or I would say, [15:36] a popular opinion, [15:37] and trying to justify, [15:38] that cannot be justified, [15:40] it is a sordid, [15:41] it is a sordid, [15:42] you know, [15:42] event, [15:43] whoever is doing it, [15:43] I was, [15:44] as opposed to this, [15:45] as I was opposed to, [15:46] Aya Ram Gaya Ram, [15:47] when Congress was doing, [15:48] when Bansilal, [15:49] that Bhanilal intern, [15:50] Tabinet, [15:50] Council of Minister, [15:51] shifted loyalty, [15:52] towards Sindhra Gandhi, [15:53] so this is, [15:54] this is no place in democracy, [15:56] Padmaja, [15:56] I am more intrigued, [15:58] you see, [15:58] why this is being done, [16:00] this is a, [16:00] you know, [16:01] elected government, [16:03] it has a majority, [16:04] it is doing its business, [16:06] what are the, [16:07] you see, [16:07] if you are going for this, [16:08] constitutional amendments, [16:10] then constitution, [16:11] brought this element, [16:12] of two-third majority, [16:13] to protect it, [16:14] so that there is no, [16:15] high-handedness, [16:17] and the very tool, [16:18] is being used, [16:19] to, [16:19] to, [16:20] you know, [16:20] get two-third of majority, [16:21] I think this is shocking, [16:23] this is not for the, [16:24] you know, [16:24] courts to decide, [16:25] this is not for political parties, [16:27] to decide, [16:27] the people will give, [16:28] bevetting answer, [16:30] Padmaja, [16:30] we must not, [16:31] we must not forget, [16:32] that Indira Gandhi, [16:33] when Indira Gandhi lost, [16:34] in 1977, [16:35] a three-fourth of her party, [16:37] had gone away, [16:38] she was a queen, [16:39] without kingdom, [16:40] but she bounced back, [16:41] and there are, [16:41] a lot of other examples, [16:42] are also challenged, [16:43] so that I don't agree, [16:44] that opposition is, [16:45] dead and gone, [16:46] opposition will, [16:47] will bounce back, [16:48] because people of India, [16:49] would want democracy, [16:51] and it is the people support, [16:52] that you will see, [16:53] that many of these turn courts, [16:55] losing elections. [16:55] Rohan Gupta, [16:56] don't ignore public opinion, [16:57] at some point, [16:58] people might just think, [16:59] this is just too much. [17:02] Absolutely. [17:02] This is big, [17:03] yes, [17:03] absolutely. [17:04] I think, [17:04] I think when he started, [17:06] and he commented on me, [17:08] let me tell you, [17:08] that I am not against, [17:09] this public opinion. [17:10] What I am saying, [17:11] the larger opinion, [17:13] is the answer of the people, [17:14] and the core ideology, [17:15] of the people, [17:16] when the party, [17:17] shift their ideology, [17:18] obviously people will rebuttal, [17:19] and Mr. Rashid Kidwai, [17:20] you have always been, [17:22] critic of BJP and all, [17:23] have you ever raised, [17:24] question on Congress party, [17:26] when after 11, [17:27] MLC, [17:28] in the MLC elections, [17:29] 11 people cross voted, [17:31] and they voted for Congress, [17:32] and Congress either, [17:33] came out and said, [17:34] that it's the fin of, [17:34] that strategy, [17:35] and it's the ideologically, [17:37] of Congress party, [17:38] you have not criticized, [17:39] so you cannot be, [17:40] partial towards, [17:41] log kantra khatre mein, [17:42] when it comes to other parties, [17:44] and you are partial towards, [17:45] log kantra khatre mein, [17:46] when it comes to Congress, [17:48] my point is very simple, [17:49] Padbhaja, [17:50] either I am justifying, [17:51] what I am saying, [17:52] let me complete, [17:54] I was not speaking, [17:55] in between, [17:55] you speak at your time, [17:56] Padbhaja, [17:57] what I am saying, [17:57] a limited point is, [17:59] it is the people, [18:00] to judge, [18:00] what is right and wrong, [18:02] number one, [18:02] number two, [18:03] at the end of the day, [18:04] when you remove, [18:05] you forget your core ideology, [18:07] people don't accept it, [18:08] that is the classic example, [18:10] whoever have left, [18:11] whoever these six people, [18:12] who have joined, [18:13] Shinde group, [18:14] obviously they will have to, [18:15] face people tomorrow, [18:16] but what ideology Rohan Gupta, [18:18] most of these people, [18:19] out of these six people, [18:20] four have been in the Congress, [18:22] today they are saying, [18:23] oh you know, [18:23] we are very scared, [18:24] because we would be, [18:25] merged in the Congress, [18:26] they have come from, [18:28] recent to Shinsena, [18:29] that's what I am saying, [18:30] no no, [18:30] again I am saying, [18:31] they were original Congresses, [18:32] we have to understand, [18:34] at the end of the day, [18:36] people vote for the ideology, [18:38] why BJP is winning election, [18:40] because the narrative of BJP, [18:41] resonates with what people, [18:43] want from the parties, [18:44] and that's why we are, [18:45] okay very quickly, [18:46] Rashad Kidwai respond, [18:47] then I want to get, [18:48] the next set of questions, [18:49] Padmaja this is very rich, [18:50] this is very rich to say, [18:51] that you know, [18:52] because of ideology, [18:53] people are shifting instances, [18:54] you must remember, [18:56] in this case, [18:57] Shifshena UBT, [18:58] there are six MPs won, [19:00] against Mr. Shinde's party, [19:02] and it was very much there, [19:03] what the MVA was formed, [19:05] and what Udav Thakar had done, [19:07] in 2024 they had won, [19:09] Rashad Khandi you have not, [19:09] heard me after that, [19:10] no no let me, [19:11] I told you, [19:12] in Lok Sabha, [19:13] when they bought the votes, [19:14] I did that for six months, [19:16] if you analyze for six months, [19:17] because you don't have a reply, [19:19] you are interrupting me, [19:20] I can see through your design, [19:22] you are interrupting me, [19:23] because you don't have an answer, [19:24] I have answered, [19:25] all the answers are shifted, [19:28] one at a time, [19:29] I have all the answers, [19:30] you are also a detector, [19:32] you have also changed loyalty, [19:35] answers are the rule, [19:36] between Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha, [19:38] okay very quickly, [19:39] let me take the next set of two questions, [19:41] because ultimately, [19:42] if the argument is, [19:43] that people are going to decide, [19:45] because we are going to go into elections, [19:46] fine, [19:47] let's go into elections, [19:48] and then you will have to accept, [19:50] at some point perhaps, [19:51] people are going to say, [19:52] in the face of a stronger opposition, [19:55] that we do not approve of this, [19:56] if that is indeed the case, [19:58] is it acceptable, [19:59] for elected lawmakers, [20:00] to switch political parties, [20:03] only 14% say completely acceptable, [20:05] 29% say exceptional circumstances, [20:08] now what are these exceptional circumstances, [20:10] but close to 50% say, [20:13] it is not acceptable at all, [20:16] look at the end of the day, [20:18] perhaps this is people also saying, [20:21] that there should be a little, [20:23] you know, [20:23] there should be a little measured, [20:25] it shouldn't seem almost rapacious, [20:27] that you are out on a wrecking mission, [20:29] so if 50% almost people are saying, [20:32] and by the way, [20:33] 39.4% of those are NDA voters, [20:36] only 60% are opposition voters, [20:39] now let me tell you, [20:40] the next question, [20:42] that we ask the people, [20:43] or C voter ask the people, [20:44] they said, [20:45] should MPs and MLAs, [20:46] lose their seat, [20:47] if they switch parties, [20:49] should they be made to resign, [20:51] and then seek a fresh mandate, [20:53] and perhaps then, [20:54] like Rohan Gupta said, [20:56] we are going to get an idea, [20:57] what people think of this decision, [20:59] so yes, [21:00] 64.5% said, [21:01] yes they should, [21:02] lose their seat, [21:04] and only 14.3% said, [21:06] no they should not, [21:08] lose their seat, [21:10] first Rashid Kidwai respond, [21:11] then I will come back to you Rohan Gupta, [21:13] again this is also writing on a wall, [21:15] and this is a very democratic thing, [21:17] that members of, [21:18] whether it is Ramul, [21:19] or Shipsena UBT, [21:21] they should resign, [21:22] and seek a mandate, [21:23] nobody will object if they win, [21:24] this is what happened, [21:25] in Madhya Pradesh, [21:26] many people, [21:27] congress people, [21:28] they resigned, [21:28] and they fought, [21:29] and many of them, [21:30] came back, [21:31] this is what happened, [21:31] with Mr. Siddia, [21:32] so, [21:32] perhaps they should resign, [21:35] and then they will speak, [21:36] the people's mandate, [21:37] like you said, [21:37] people will give you stamp of approval, [21:39] let them go to the people, [21:40] see, [21:41] again, [21:41] I am totally with the idea, [21:43] whatever people have said, [21:44] absolutely, [21:45] I agree with that, [21:46] but then in democracy, [21:47] you have the rules, [21:48] which are being followed, [21:49] when the majority, [21:50] of the two-third of the party, [21:51] if the ideology, [21:52] of those two-third people, [21:54] is different, [21:54] from what the core, [21:55] this thing, [21:55] obviously, [21:56] it is allowed in the law, [21:58] it is not that, [21:58] they are breaking the constitution, [22:00] and they are doing something, [22:02] so Mr. Rashid, [22:02] we cannot be just giving lectures, [22:04] on the basis of our agenda, [22:06] so you please listen to me, [22:15] because you don't have answer, [22:16] you are speaking in between me, [22:17] I was not speaking in between, [22:18] you are also doing the same thing, [22:19] please allow me to complete them, [22:21] so Padbaja, [22:22] my point here is, [22:23] when majority-wide defection, [22:25] anti-defection law, [22:26] gave two-third number, [22:27] when two-third of the, [22:29] more than two-third of the MPs, [22:30] they are not with the ideology, [22:33] of the main parent party, [22:34] it means that, [22:35] there is something wrong, [22:36] that is the message, [22:37] I want to give here, [22:38] if there are the, [22:39] from the Lok Sabha, [22:40] to Vidhan Sabha, [22:41] there are a lot of things, [22:42] which have happened, [22:43] which has ensured, [22:44] that the core ideology, [22:45] of UBT, [22:46] is completely, [22:47] completely ignored, [22:49] how can you oppose, [22:50] Vak amendment, [22:51] that was the biggest key issue, [22:52] which I feel, [22:53] that they lost assembly elections, [22:55] people gave them, [22:56] the chance in Lok Sabha elections, [22:57] so let me explore, [22:58] it was Satya Me Abjaiti, [23:00] in Vidhan Sabha, [23:01] let me complete Padbaja, [23:02] in Vidhan Sabha, [23:03] if all three of them, [23:04] lost very very badly, [23:06] there was message, [23:06] on the ground, [23:07] that yes, [23:07] they are against, [23:08] the core ideology, [23:09] for what people, [23:10] voted for them in Lok Sabha, [23:11] okay, [23:11] since we are talking, [23:12] about core ideology, [23:13] now let me ask you this, [23:14] what is the core ideology, [23:16] of Murshidabad MP, [23:17] Abu Tahir Khan, [23:18] that he has now, [23:19] joined the group, [23:21] which says, [23:21] we are going to work, [23:22] with the NDA, [23:23] what is his core ideology, [23:25] what was this, [23:26] difference in ideology, [23:27] he had with TMC, [23:28] where he is finding, [23:29] more like mindedness, [23:31] with the NDA, [23:31] what is our, [23:32] Abu Tahir Khan, [23:33] bringing to you, [23:34] in terms of ideology, [23:35] again, [23:35] again, [23:36] idea of TMC, [23:37] the people, [23:38] who have gone away, [23:39] from TMC, [23:40] the MPs and MLAs, [23:41] they were not happy, [23:42] with particular person, [23:43] style of functioning, [23:44] these were the people, [23:45] not only this, [23:45] these were the people, [23:47] they were closest, [23:47] to Mamta Benerji, [23:49] when Mamta Benerji, [23:50] ignores to hear their voice, [23:51] obviously they will do it, [23:52] again, [23:53] I am not here to comment, [23:54] on why they are, [23:55] appointing one particular person, [23:57] and all, [23:57] as a NDA, [23:59] if they come, [23:59] and they support us, [24:00] obviously, [24:01] why should we say that, [24:01] no, [24:02] are they joining, [24:03] because the man is accused, [24:04] in Murshidabad riots, [24:06] your party accused him, [24:07] of commenting, [24:08] Murshidabad riots, [24:09] anti-hindu riots, [24:11] your party accused, [24:12] Abu Tahir Khan, [24:13] he was sitting in the house, [24:14] of your West Bengal in charge, [24:15] as he joined BGP, [24:18] we will never allow that, [24:19] Kakoli Ghosh, [24:20] Daskidar has said, [24:21] that the NCPI, [24:23] is going to work, [24:23] with the NDA, [24:25] they are going, [24:25] to be supporting you, [24:26] inside the Lok Sabha, [24:27] you have to ask, [24:30] Mamta Benerji, [24:30] the person, [24:31] whom she used to call, [24:32] a brother, [24:33] if he goes away, [24:34] from Mamta Benerji, [24:35] because of Abhishek Benerji, [24:36] and she is not ready, [24:38] to hear, [24:38] the voice of the ground, [24:40] it is up to Mamta Benerji, [24:41] that group clearly told, [24:42] that no, [24:43] for us, [24:43] Mamta Benerji, [24:44] is not a problem, [24:45] we have problem, [24:46] with Abhishek Benerji, [24:47] then how, [24:47] Batija Premi is above the party, [24:49] okay, [24:49] so right now, [24:50] the NDA, [24:51] is like Vasudev Kutumbakam, [24:52] you know, [24:52] anyone who wants, [24:53] refuge from the, [24:55] you know, [24:55] the horrible ideology, [24:56] in their own party, [24:57] they find refuge, [24:59] inside the NDA, [25:00] but again, [25:01] I want to ask you this, [25:02] Varun Singh, [25:02] is there a point, [25:04] and you know, [25:04] now, [25:04] because we are seeing this, [25:06] and we are seeing, [25:06] rumors of this, [25:07] from across the board, [25:09] that tomorrow, [25:09] it could happen in DMK, [25:10] that now, [25:11] we are talking about, [25:12] MLAs, [25:12] who could split, [25:13] you know, [25:14] you had these four MLAs, [25:15] who did not, [25:15] three MLAs, [25:16] and one MLC, [25:17] who did not turn up, [25:19] is there a point, [25:20] where people would be, [25:21] somebody I was speaking to said, [25:22] that there are some, [25:22] some eyes of the shadow, [25:23] that there are some, [25:24] you have to do it, [25:25] but don't do it, [25:26] is there a point, [25:28] where people would begin, [25:29] to think that, [25:29] this is getting too much, [25:31] Varun Singh, [25:33] you know, [25:33] Sherm and politics, [25:34] don't go together, [25:35] if you are expecting, [25:36] that people would follow, [25:37] ideology, [25:38] ideology, [25:38] who are fighting, [25:39] who are fighting, [25:39] friends, [25:40] who are fighting, [25:41] in the whatsapp group, [25:43] there are people, [25:44] who fight, [25:45] for one or two, [25:45] political parties, [25:46] supporting ideology, [25:48] we have seen, [25:49] there are multiple, [25:50] instances, [25:50] politicians, [25:51] dancing during sons, [25:53] and daughters wedding, [25:54] coming together, [25:55] all of them, [25:56] are a happy family, [25:57] we people, [25:58] you know, [25:58] outside, [25:59] are people, [26:00] who sit and fight, [26:01] on ideology, [26:02] these are not the people, [26:03] who fight on ideology, [26:05] I'll take a simple example, [26:06] today the results, [26:07] of 17 MLC seats, [26:09] were declared, [26:10] in Maharashtra, [26:11] out of that, [26:12] in Amravati, [26:13] Vidhan Parishad, [26:14] there are 100, [26:15] congress MLA's, [26:16] the congress candidate, [26:17] got zero seat votes, [26:19] the, [26:20] just imagine, [26:21] out 100 corporators, [26:23] not even, [26:23] one corporator, [26:24] voted for the congress candidate, [26:26] so where is the ideology, [26:27] that we are talking about, [26:28] there is no ideology, [26:30] in today's politics, [26:31] politics is today, [26:32] working only on one agenda, [26:34] that is common minimum program, [26:35] whatever helps each other, [26:37] that is what they are doing, [26:38] the BJP today wants numbers, [26:40] and they are getting, [26:41] whosoever can help them, [26:43] support them in delimitation, [26:44] and that is what politics, [26:45] is all about, [26:46] politics see, [26:47] they are carrying out, [26:48] their Hindu agenda, [26:48] whenever they want to do it, [26:49] they are doing it, [26:50] for whatever support they want, [26:52] they get it, [26:53] here the problem is, [26:54] they haven't moved away, [26:55] from their original agenda, [26:56] at least that is there, [26:57] in the people's mind, [26:58] here what happened in Maharashtra, [27:00] is, [27:00] Uddhav Thakarib, [27:01] moves out of his agenda, [27:03] doesn't do anything, [27:04] and he is not even, [27:05] going on the street, [27:05] to tell people, [27:06] I want to contest, [27:08] the congress, [27:08] not nowhere to be seen, [27:10] not single seat, [27:11] they could win today, [27:12] okay, [27:12] yes, [27:12] good point, [27:13] I am coming to you, [27:13] Rohan Gupta, [27:14] let me bring it, [27:14] let me bring it, [27:15] Nanand Dubey on this, [27:16] Anand ji, [27:16] come say come, [27:16] unglit over, [27:17] cover, [27:17] counter, [27:18] yourself, [27:23] all the participant, [27:25] sorry, [27:26] you have lost, [27:27] apart from, [27:33] everyone, [27:39] sorry, [27:41] wait, [27:43] there, [27:47] foreign [28:15] foreign [28:21] foreign [28:29] foreign [28:33] foreign [28:35] before you will have several fights, today there were 17 seats, one second, the MLC [28:40] was 17 seats, there were 6 uncontested seats, there were 6 uncontested seats, the rest [28:49] of them, there were 10 NDAs, there were 1-1 independent seats, and as we speak, now [28:55] we come to the party, the so-called BJP rebels came to the party, you are not even, [29:04] why did you allow for 6 seats to go uncontested in this MLC election, [29:12] like you said, it's not the same, the people are not the direct, the people's [29:25] that had about 3 people in the country, the people in the country were the chartered [29:29] I am saying that the affidavit was filed in the election commission of Udhav Thakre [29:56] It was 143 crores, it was 23 crores, it was 23 crores, it was 23 crores, it was the rest of the MLS, [30:03] it was 24 crores. [30:05] In Marathi, where did the money go? [30:11] There is money, there is money, if you think that everything is going on, [30:15] and the election is going on the same way, then you will save money. [30:18] You will pay power, give money. [30:20] It is going on the same way. [30:22] We will not do anything, we will pay money. [30:26] You will pay money, you will pay money. [30:29] Rohan Gupta. [30:30] Look, Anand Ji is looking at his face, [30:33] that his leader will become a poor party, [30:35] and his thoughts are sitting here. [30:37] He said that it is very important to hit the ground. [30:42] You cannot just sit in the AC cabin and scream, [30:45] that this will happen. [30:47] It is a battle you have to go on the ground and convince people about your ideology. [30:50] 99% of their elected MPs and ML have complained that we have not been given time by our leadership. [30:55] That is a core issue. [30:57] Another point. [30:58] Rajin Ji is a senior journalist. [31:00] Now we are talking about when people talk about Tantra. [31:03] When the D.M.K. [31:04] Congress Party gave money, [31:06] then someone did not say it. [31:07] 5 MLs, [31:08] my brother was sterling. [31:09] It was done for one day. [31:10] Second, [31:11] Congress Neta Rahul Gandhi [31:13] when the D.M.K. [31:14] The D.M.K. [31:15] The D.M.K. [31:16] has realized that Sampradaic behavior is happening [31:18] that Mamtab Energy attack. [31:19] So, where will India run into Hathbandar? [31:22] What do you expect people to vote for? [31:24] This is the Hathbandam where you attack each other. [31:26] No, no. [31:27] We are not talking about voting. [31:28] We are talking about this switching that happens after election. [31:32] Look. [31:33] During elections you go, trade barbs, attack each other. [31:36] After election you have been elected on a symbol. [31:38] about congress giving material to dmk is it after election or not padma ji okay that happened after [31:44] election after election yeah like varun singh said earlier [31:49] sharam ki koji jahe nahi rashid kidvai [31:52] padbaja padbaja joh congress nye dmk ke sath kara woh bilkul chud abortionism [31:57] awsadwad tha logtan pe kalang tha aap johi don't blame us [32:01] raithan uska joh coalition dharma ka joh thah usko usko kongress nye darkinar [32:06] kiya woh kongress ko uski bharcana jitni ki jahe kam ki jahe lakin lohan gupta [32:10] yeh bathae joh padbaja aapne bataya tha maharash ka mlc ka chunow joh varun bhi [32:14] baat karrehe thay waha aap dekhi kya huwa kis tarak se balikki se kam huwa [32:17] hai balikki se kam huwa ki 6 logo ko ko joh ek radiyatik dal se chunow nore [32:23] thay unho ne last rate of withdrawal bhe bhebhkul jeb 5 bajein samayi khatam [32:27] hotta hai uus samayi aapna parcha waapas le liya [32:31] me here let me clear one more [32:37] a mental ca human peace of rascality [32:40] kis nye kia kaisa kia no but why did they take it back [32:44] padmedia let me come in here yes [32:47] in democracy if you just complain complain and complain why will people vote for you [32:53] why you are complaining in the channel why you are complaining in the media if you are condemning [33:09] congress party for dmk it means everybody is voting for us it's a double standard [33:15] you cannot question us all the time we are winning election because people trust us people have faith [33:21] in our ideology that's why we are in elections after elections it is not a coincidence that [33:25] even this election was managed varun singh let me tell you a simple thing uh parma here there [33:34] were candidates from the mba who couldn't even find people to sponsor them sign jokate has signatory [33:39] that was the case so i'm just telling you i gave you an example and put corporators from congress [33:44] couldn't and the candidate from congress got toward zero votes so you know blaming the opposition [33:50] or blaming the party who's there in the uh ruling alliance over here uh i don't know today uh the [33:56] seo shana candidate eknach chinde's candidate lost in nasa it is smart maneuvering it is being said [34:00] that this was it was smart maneuvering by devendra fadnavis that he made a rebel candidate contest [34:05] over there and he won and he defeated someone whose brother himself is an mlc over there from [34:09] and then it was smart maneuvering by eknach chinde that he got that bjp rebel to join his party [34:14] but let me tell you a very simple thing that that bjp rebel will be joining the seo shana only and only [34:21] if it gets a go ahead from the high command over here in maharashtra ncp dhakade it was a bjp fellow [34:28] who went in pune and is now an mlc you know blame the blame the ruling alliance that is the best thing one [34:34] should do but you know one thing i have to point out the number one conspiracy theory and this is [34:39] where i want to bring in rashid kedvai fine yes the bjp the nda they are now almost working like a [34:46] juggernaut and anything that stands in the way is going to be demolished unless they put up a fight [34:50] the point is for example sanjay raut had said that om rajin nimbalkar has agreed to join [34:55] the nda only if he gets a favorable verdict in his father's case that favorable verdict did not happen [35:00] he received a setback from the special cbi court and yet he has joined which makes one ask somehow [35:05] perhaps all of these conspiracy theories are also being floated because it's convenient it's [35:10] convenient to blame others om rajin nimbalkar is still with ekna chindi absolutely so the opposition [35:17] is clumsy opposition has leadership problem opposition has a dynasty rule and that is eating the vitals of [35:24] inner party democracy in lot of political parties including the congress i'm saying it for the benefit of [35:29] mr rohan gupta who thinks that you know i would plug a pro congress line they're having said this [35:37] see why this is being why 360 why this kind of mps are being bought is there some kind of change of [35:45] guard is taking place uh in in maharashtra at the center or some kind of big you know thing is [35:50] happening therefore you need a constitutional amendment to do this it cannot be just for [35:54] delimited delimitation bill is there a some kind of political you know uh uh thing that happening [36:01] that we will see it in 2027 okay the things that need to be answered okay and ultimately yes you are [36:07] absolutely right these questions need to be answered but the nda the bjp's argument is that it will be [36:13] answered in the people's court when we go to the people in elections but i want to end with a final [36:18] visual because very interesting uh picture came today from the assembly where rohit powar varun [36:24] saying maybe you'd want to dwell on it for like 30 seconds before i thank you rohit powar and egnat [36:30] shinde having a chat i don't think udhav ji is going to be very happy with this picture what was this [36:35] conversation they were having i don't know he probably was standing for him visiting his uh [36:41] niece's uh his sister's wedding yesterday at uh pkc probably that could be one thing but i don't i [36:48] don't want to get into the details what they were talking because i don't know what they were [36:51] but as i said rajaniti mei sharam ki jaga nahi hai ideology ki jaga politicians ke lii nahi hai and the [36:57] only most important thing over here is if udhav thakre today wants his party to survive then if not him [37:04] then aditya thakre needs to hit the streets he is to think that my 34 35 saal ka ladka [37:08] has a girl nikal jai aroko se million and solution they whatever happens is not going to leave him [37:13] because solution day is his very close friend close it he left his seat for aditya thakre so and uh sanjay [37:19] koopanis also won't leave him because they are uh you know these are the seats where ubt has this [37:25] particular uh base so these two people might not leave him the rest all i don't know [37:29] But anyway, let's hope all of these people. [37:35] I want to leave you with these pictures. [38:00] Let's hope this is just BKC's talk about how good it was, how good it was, how good it was, [38:14] how good it was, how good it was, how good it was, how good it was, how limited it was. [38:16] But serious thought needs to be given about what is happening around you. [38:20] If people approve, well, we will see it in the people's court. [38:22] Thanks very much gentlemen for joining me on this big story.