Rape survivor Gisèle Pelicot’s 'A Hymn to Life' chronicles resilience after abuse

[0:00] AMNA NAWAZ. [0:01] One November day in 2020, Gisele Pellicot was called to a local French police station [0:05] and life as she knew it ended. [0:08] Evidence mounted that her husband of 50 years had been secretly drugging and raping her [0:13] and inviting dozens of strangers into their home to abuse her for nearly a decade. [0:18] Her resilience and resolve in a trial of over 50 men later led to a reckoning about sexual [0:24] abuse and revealed the power of one woman's voice. [0:27] I met with Pellicot this week for a rare interview to discuss the publication of her memoir, [0:33] A Hymn to Life, with the subtitle, Shame Has to Change Sides. [0:37] And I began by asking her what it's like for her to now have her story out in the world. [0:42] GISELE PELLICOT, Author, I thought that my book could be useful, and [0:47] to tell my story could tell the others who are victims of sexual violence that we have [0:51] the resources within us to get back up. [0:54] And through my story, where I write about a family saga of three generations of women [0:58] that gave me the strength to change the world. [0:59] And this happiness in life, because they also lived through disease and grief. [1:03] But I always saw them as strong. [1:04] It is really this happiness that did not leave me throughout my childhood, and this resilience [1:09] that is something within me. [1:10] AMNA NAWAZ, The more you speak about it, does it get easier at all to talk about all [1:14] of this? [1:15] GISELE PELLICOT, Author, Easier, I don't think so, because I lived 50 years [1:19] with Mr. Pellicot, and it was my choice to live with him. [1:22] And I had three children. [1:24] And I always thought that these 50 years were not all a lie. [1:27] To be able to continue living. [1:28] I have to rebuild a new perspective and almost invent it and also understand who I am. [1:34] AMNA NAWAZ, Before we go into more detail about your case, tell us about the man that [1:39] you thought you were marrying, because, as you note in the book, you were very young [1:43] when you both met. [1:44] You were escaping your own traumas. [1:46] He was escaping a very abusive household as well. [1:51] Who did you believe you were marrying 50 years ago? [1:54] GISELE PELLICOT, Author, So, when we met, we were two 19-year-old kids. [1:59] He had very difficult memories. [2:00] He was a tyrannical and authoritarian father. [2:03] And I had a stepmother who was not loving, not loving at all. [2:06] It was another way to convince ourselves that we could save each other and that we could [2:10] help each other. [2:11] And that's what I believed for many years. [2:14] We had to learn together, but we had always gotten over the obstacles, disease, financial [2:18] challenges and problems at work. [2:20] AMNA NAWAZ, You were living this very idyllic life, retired in the south of France. [2:25] You have a pool in the house. [2:27] The grandkids come to visit. [2:29] And everything changes. [2:31] In a moment, when your husband reveals to you he's been arrested, he was caught filming [2:36] up women's skirts in a local store, the police will want to talk to you, in that moment, [2:42] to be confronted with this, with a man you have spent most of your life with, what is [2:46] that like? [2:47] GISELE PELLICOT, Author, It was a moment where it was hard for me to [2:50] understand what happened, because we have chosen this place to have a peaceful retirement, [2:55] to be able to receive our children and our grandchildren. [2:58] It was a magical place to make others happy. [3:01] And when Mr. Pellicot told me that he was caught filming under women's skirts, I was [3:05] destabilized, because he had never done anything to me. [3:08] I have never seen him do anything out of place, like suspicious or violent towards women. [3:13] I had to confront the reality. [3:15] But I told myself that maybe he had these urges, and maybe I could help him, get him [3:19] a psychological evaluation, and ask for forgiveness from these women. [3:23] AMNA NAWAZ, In that moment, Mr. Pellicot knew that the police knew more about his crimes. [3:29] They have his computers. [3:30] They will have fed him. [3:31] They will have found the videos at that point, a file, a folder on his computer labeled abuse, [3:39] videos of you being raped repeatedly by him, by dozens of other men, while you were drugged [3:46] into unconsciousness. [3:48] He doesn't tell you any of that, though. [3:50] The police have to tell you that. [3:53] When you're presented with this evidence and told what has been happening for the last [3:58] decade, what goes through your mind? [4:01] GISELE PELLICOT, Author, It was a moment. [4:02] It was very hard for me to imagine that it was true. [4:06] And I thought it was Photoshopped videos. [4:08] I even thought that maybe somebody had something against Mr. Pellicot. [4:12] Maybe it was a form of denial, but I think my brain really dissociated. [4:16] I could not realize the evil things that he had done. [4:20] Because the images were very violent, for me, it was intolerable. [4:24] So my brain dissociated. [4:25] And it's when I got home that after five or six hours, I pronounced for the first time [4:30] the word rape to a friend that came to see me. [4:32] So I could go sleep at her house that night. [4:36] That day, it's true that my life stopped. [4:38] It was very difficult and very painful. [4:41] We cannot imagine something so vile, so inadmissible, so unthinkable. [4:45] Everything was falling apart in my life at that moment. [4:48] MARGARET WARNER, There are almost incomprehensible numbers you lay out in the book. [4:54] And we have seen in reports over 70 men in those videos, over 200 rapes. [5:01] MARGARET WARNER, For the man that you're talking about, you're talking about a man who was [5:02] raped. [5:04] MARGARET WARNER, And the fact that you loved and shared your life with, to even do this [5:07] once, would be an extraordinary betrayal. [5:11] But how do you begin to reconcile the scale of the deception and the abuse? [5:17] It was for like 10 years I had these memory lapses. [5:22] I consulted with neurologists, with gynecologists. [5:25] Nobody understood what was happening to me, also because we could not imagine that a woman [5:30] who was accompanied by her husband, nobody could imagine that she was being drugged within [5:34] her own home. [5:36] I am lucky that my body held up. [5:38] MARGARET WARNER, You also write in the book that it's left to you to have to tell [5:41] your children, your adult children, and that, on top of your own trauma, your own shock, [5:49] you as a mother, you have to try to carry their trauma and their shock and their pain. [5:55] What is that like in that moment? [5:57] LUISE-MARGARET WARNER, That was the hardest moment of my life, to call my children, [6:02] because I did not know how to explain all of this. [6:04] This feeling of betrayal, everyone felt it. [6:07] It was complicated for them, because they did not choose their father. [6:11] I chose him, and they did not. [6:13] So for my children, they wanted to erase everything. [6:16] They wanted to destroy everything, because it was unbearable. [6:19] How could he have betrayed us like this, lied to us like this, and hurt us this way? [6:24] The children still suffer. [6:25] MARGARET WARNER, Your sons, your two sons deal with this in their own way, but your [6:30] daughter, Caroline, she struggles immensely, as you document. [6:34] And it's especially out there. [6:35] After photos of her are found on your husband's laptop, photos of her while she's sleeping [6:40] she didn't know about, photos you describe as having what you call an unbearable, incestuous [6:46] gaze. [6:48] And so she naturally questions whether she herself could have been abused by her father. [6:53] Madame Pellicot, do you believe that Monsieur Pellicot could have abused your daughter, [6:59] Caroline? [7:01] MARGARET WARNER, Yes, it is . [7:02] There are two photos that make us question what happened. [7:05] One is where she is in a hoodie and underwear. [7:07] She looks like she's sleeping on her side. [7:10] But there is no answer, because we don't see anything. [7:12] We don't see Mr. Pellicot raping her or other people. [7:16] Of course, this incestuous gaze upon his daughter is intolerable. [7:20] And I understand that Caroline is suffering. [7:22] And for her, this doubt condemns her to a continuous hell. [7:26] And she filed a complaint against her father. [7:29] And I hope that she will have answers. [7:31] Me today, I don't have an answer. [7:33] But I try to be with her as she looks for the truth. [7:35] MARGARET WARNER, Now we're back to this mother-daughter relationship like we had [7:40] before. [7:41] But this story has destroyed our lives, and we're trying to heal altogether. [7:44] LISA DESJARDINS, I would like to ask you about the trial, because you write in the [7:48] book that, for years, you resisted, you refused watching those videos, I assume, as a form [7:54] of self-protection. [7:56] But before the trial, your lawyers tell you that you should, to be ready. [8:00] You watch these videos of your own assaults, one after the other. [8:05] And you say, yes, I'm ready. [8:06] And I'm curious, when you have so deliberately held this boundary for so long, and suddenly [8:12] that boundary is gone, what changes for you, if anything? [8:16] MARGARET WARNER, These images are etched in my memory forever. [8:22] When we see the body of this abused woman who was given to these men who have no pity, [8:27] we cannot describe videos of such horror. [8:30] So it helped me to think that this woman was not me, because she was just like a rag doll [8:34] who had no more soul, no more life. [8:36] life who was being abused. I told myself that I had to take the punches like a boxer, and [8:41] I watched the videos, one after another. But after a time, once I had finished screening [8:47] the videos, I needed to walk for hours to tell myself that I have to do something. I [8:53] have to expose all these individuals so that they will pay dearly for what they did. It [8:58] was for them to bear the burden of shame, not the victims. [9:05] There are over 50 men in that room, the largest mass rape trial in French history. It is you [9:13] against 50 men. And you make what many consider to be an astonishing decision that you don't [9:20] want this to be a closed trial, to make sure the public knows what's happening inside that [9:25] room. Why? [9:26] I felt invested and felt like I had a responsibility. And I had thousands of letters [9:33] who came from all over the world that were just addressed to [9:35] shooting. [9:36] I never thought that my voice could echo throughout the world, beyond our borders. [9:42] And a lot of women identified with me because it was an echo to their own suffering. [9:46] MARGARET WARNER, For the first time in that room, you are confronted with the faces [9:50] and the voices of these men who committed unspeakable acts of brutality against you. [9:58] What's it like to see them there in that room? [10:00] MARGARET WARNER, What is shocking is that, when we see them, they are ordinary [10:06] men. [10:07] They are very young, from 22 to 70 years old. [10:11] I am not sure they even realized why they were there, because their behavior looked [10:15] rather detached, without any empathy towards the victim. [10:19] They were even in denial, and acted with cowardice. [10:22] That's what I lived through in these three and a half months of trial. [10:26] I had to confront their lies, their denial, their sarcasm, their inappropriate looks. [10:32] The women who were outside made everything inside the trial more peaceful. [10:37] There were the applause when I got out. [10:39] And when I came in. [10:40] I'd heard the ré案, which is a scene that I do remember best. [10:44] I'd have believed that, even if they didn't do anything, we didn't might be criminalized [10:51] again or again in the morning. [10:54] I believed that, without that support, it would have been even harder for me. [10:59] AMNA NAWAZ, So Mr. Pellicot is found guilty, sentenced to twenty years in prison. [11:04] Every other single man in that room is also found guilty. [11:08] Is it a moment of relief? [11:09] Or justice? [11:10] MARGARET WARNER, Not relief, no. [11:11] Meanwhile, there are men who were not identified from the videos, who could not be caught, [11:16] who are still out there. [11:18] What is that like for you to know that? [11:22] They must not have peace of mind because they know that they must be watched from somewhere. [11:27] There are nine that we were unable to identify because their faces were blurred. [11:31] But maybe one day we will be able to identify them. [11:34] As you well know, your case, this trial, your story have now been splashed across global [11:39] headlines. [11:40] Women showing up and chanting your name, Giselle, over and over again, becoming a global icon, [11:47] someone that so many women look up to and find as a source of strength and resilience. [11:52] What's that like for you right now? [11:55] I am just a regular woman who was opposed to a closed trial. [12:00] I really like the word whistleblower. [12:01] The historian Michel Perrault named me whistleblower. [12:04] That is a word that describes me better because I actually awakened people's collective conscience. [12:10] This is a name I like, and I believe that the next generation will continue the fight. [12:15] You've also said that you would like to visit Mr. Pellicot in prison. [12:19] Have you had a chance to do that yet? [12:22] No, no. [12:24] First, I would not use the word chance, but I will go see him when I have a moment. [12:28] I have a very busy schedule. [12:30] No, I was not able to speak with Mr. [12:32] Pellicot since the five and a half years of this trial, because every time I spoke to the president of the court when I had to speak to Mr. [12:39] Pellicot. [12:41] Yes. [12:41] I have the intention of doing it, but that stays in my personal sphere. [12:45] Why do you want to speak with him? [12:47] What do you hope you would get from that meeting? [12:51] I have the need to ask questions. [12:53] Why did he make us suffer this much? [12:55] Why did he not stop before? [12:56] Of course, these are questions that are still with me. [12:59] I don't know if I will be able to get answers, but I hope. [13:03] I'm so happy to ask you about this as well, because despite it all, you have found love. [13:09] You have found partnership and intimacy. [13:12] And. [13:13] Trust a man named Jean-Luc, who's here with you today, and a lot of people will wonder how you do that. [13:19] How do you trust someone else after everything you've been through? [13:23] I believe that trust is part of the way I live. [13:27] It is true that I met this man. [13:29] I did not think that I would fall in love or even have wanted to, but life has changed trajectory. [13:35] And I met this young man of 73 years old, and he's also had some complicated times in his life. [13:41] Also, we met through friends. [13:42] So I did not meet him randomly. [13:44] And I believe that changed our lives. [13:47] We hope to really enjoy our life together. [13:49] And he's with me and supports me while I do this book tour. [13:52] And I completely trust him because we have the same values. [13:55] And it's something very important. [13:58] The book is a hymn to life. [14:00] Shame has to change sides. [14:02] And the author is the extraordinary Giselle Pellicot. [14:06] Madame Pellicot, merci mille fois. [14:07] Thank you so much. [14:08] Merci à vous. [14:09] Merci beaucoup. [14:24] Support journalism you trust. [14:26] Support PBS. [14:27] Donate now or even better, start a monthly contribution today.