R. Kelly was "unhinged" in interview with Gayle King, columnist says

[0:00] I am surprised that you agreed to do it. [0:02] Why are you sitting down with us today? [0:04] I'm very tired of all of the lies. [0:08] I've been hearing things and, you know, and seeing things on the blocks. [0:11] And, you know, I'm just tired. [0:14] What are the lies that you're hearing that disturb you most? [0:16] Oh, my God. [0:18] All of them. [0:21] Got little girls trapped in the basement. [0:23] Helicopters over my house. [0:26] Trying to rescue someone that doesn't need rescuing [0:30] because they're not in my house. [0:32] Handcuffing people, starving people. [0:34] I have a harem, what you call it, a coat. [0:38] I don't even really know what a coat is, but I know I don't have one, you know. [0:43] Have you done anything that you regret? [0:45] Have you done anything wrong? [0:46] Lots of things wrong when it comes to women that I apologize. [0:50] But I apologize in those relationships. [0:53] At the time I was in the relationships. [0:55] Have you broken any laws when it comes to women? [0:58] Absolutely not. [0:59] The six-part series interviewed 50 people. [1:02] Mm-hmm. [1:02] Family members, your former tour manager, [1:05] numerous women who all claim that you abused them. [1:07] Yeah. [1:08] Were you saying everybody in that documentary [1:09] was not telling the truth about you? [1:11] Everybody? [1:12] If you really look at that documentary, which I'm sure you have. [1:16] I have. [1:16] Everybody said something bad about me. [1:20] Nobody said nothing good. [1:23] They were describing Lucifer. [1:25] I'm not Lucifer. [1:26] I'm a man, I make mistakes, but I'm not a devil, and by no means am I a monster. [1:33] I'm going to name the names, Andrea Kelly, your ex-wife, Kitty Jones, Lisa Van Allen, [1:39] Lizette Martinez, Jeronda Pace, Faith Rogers, Asante McGee. [1:45] You're saying everything they said in that documentary about you is not true. [1:49] They are lying on me. [1:50] Why would these women say the same thing about you, that you are controlling, that you are abusive, [1:56] that you tell women when to eat, when to go to the bathroom, when they can sleep, where they can dress? [2:02] Why would all these women tell these different stories about you if they were not true, [2:07] and they don't know each other? [2:08] That defies logic to me. [2:11] Right, right. [2:12] Until you hear the explanation. [2:15] You can start a rumor on a guy like me or a celebrity just like that. [2:19] All you have to do is push a button on your phone and say, [2:23] so-and-so did this to me, R. Kelly did this to me. [2:26] And if you get any traction from that, if you're able to write a book from that, [2:30] if you're able to get a reality show, [2:33] then any girl that I had a relationship in the past that it just didn't work out, [2:38] she can come and say the same exact thing. [2:40] Are you blaming this on social media? [2:42] I'm talking about the power of social media. [2:44] In 2008, R. Kelly was found not guilty on 14 counts of child pornography [2:51] after prosecutors in Chicago failed to convince a jury that he was a man [2:57] seen in a sex tape with a girl as young as 13. [3:00] What do you want to say to your fans? [3:02] Last month, Kelly was indicted again, [3:05] this time charged with aggravated criminal sexual abuse of four women, [3:09] including three who the charges say were minors at the time. [3:13] Have you ever had sex with anyone under the age of 17? [3:17] No. [3:18] Never? [3:19] No. [3:20] I have to tell you, it's so hard to believe that based on all that we've read. [3:24] I'm going to tell you something, Gail, there's one... [3:26] And what the women have said about you. [3:28] What women have said about me, what women... [3:31] So nobody's allowed to be mad at me and be scorned and lie on me. [3:35] So they're lying on you. That's your explanation. They're lying on you. [3:38] Absolutely. [3:39] Absolutely. [3:45] Absolutely. [3:46] You feel that people have maligned your character? [3:48] I have been assassinated. [3:50] I have been buried alive, but I'm alive. [3:55] So I think the point you're making is, and correct me if I'm wrong, [3:59] that you have never held anybody against their will. [4:02] I don't need to. Why would I? [4:04] Well, I'm... [4:04] How stupid would it be for R. Kelly, [4:07] with all I've been through in my way, way past, [4:12] to hold somebody, let alone four, five, six, 50, you said? [4:17] How stupid would I be to do that? [4:20] I didn't say you were holding... [4:21] That's stupid, guys. [4:22] I didn't... [4:22] Is this camera on me? [4:24] Yes, it's on. [4:24] That's stupid. [4:26] Use your common sense. [4:28] Don't... [4:29] Forget the blogs. [4:30] Forget how you feel about me. [4:31] Hate me if you want to. [4:33] Love me if you want. [4:33] But just use your common sense. [4:35] How stupid would it be for me to... [4:38] With my crazy past and what I've been through, [4:41] Oh, right now, I just think I need to be a monster [4:45] and hold girls against their will, [4:47] chain them up in my basement, [4:48] and don't let them eat and don't let them out [4:51] unless they need some shoes down the street from their uncle. [4:55] Stop it. [4:56] Y'all quit playing. [4:57] Quit playing. [4:58] Robert... [4:59] I didn't do this stuff. [5:01] This is not me, y'all. [5:02] I'm fighting for my f***ing life. [5:05] Y'all killing me with this... [5:08] Robert... [5:11] I can't do it. [5:27] Y'all just don't want to believe the truth. [5:29] I don't want to believe it. [5:32] At this point, we briefly pause the interview [5:34] to give Kelly a moment. [5:36] His publicist helped calm him down. [5:38] I hope this camera keep going. [5:40] No, we're going to let the camera keep rolling. [5:41] This is not true. [5:42] This is... [5:43] It doesn't even make sense. [5:45] Why would I hold all these women? [5:48] Their mothers and fathers told me [5:50] we're going to destroy your career. [5:53] But Kelly's emotions remained raw. [5:55] It's real girls out there missing. [5:58] It's real young girls out there being abducted, [6:00] being raped, okay? [6:02] They really are on chains. [6:05] They really do have chains on their wrists, [6:08] and they can't get out. [6:09] And they're ending up buried in death. [6:10] Robert, we have to have a conversation. [6:12] This is not me. [6:12] I don't want you just ranting at the camera. [6:15] I think I came here for them to hear me talk. [6:17] I need help. [6:18] What kind of help? [6:19] This is the kind of help I need. [6:21] Yes, what kind of help? [6:22] I need somebody to help me not have a big heart [6:26] because my heart is so big. [6:28] People betray me, [6:30] and I keep forgiving them. [6:31] You sound like you're playing the victim here. [6:34] You sound like R. Kelly. [6:35] You do. [6:36] When I listen to you, [6:37] it does sound like you're playing the victim card. [6:39] I'm just telling the truth. [6:40] And the reason I'm emotional, [6:41] and I apologize for that, [6:43] is because this is the first time [6:44] I was able to say something. [6:47] To speak. [6:47] I have said nothing. [6:48] Well, we're also hearing from the family [6:51] of a woman who lives with R. Kelly at his home. [6:54] The parents of Joycelyn Savage say [6:56] that the singer not only abused, [6:58] but brainwashed their daughter. [7:00] R. Kelly denies that [7:01] and claims it was Savage's father [7:03] who gave his daughter to him at a concert. [7:06] I didn't go looking for a Joycelyn Savage. [7:09] I was doing my show. [7:12] He brought her and asked a friend of mine [7:14] to put her on the stage with R. Kelly. [7:18] Make sure she's on the stage. [7:19] But in a news conference this morning, [7:22] the Savage family says they have no doubt [7:24] that Joycelyn is being held by the singer [7:26] against her will. [7:27] We went from seeing you [7:29] or talking to you daily or weekly [7:32] to not seeing you in two years. [7:34] So that is a clear indication to us [7:37] and as a mother [7:38] that something's definitely wrong [7:40] with this situation. [7:41] And we won't stop until we have our answers [7:44] and make sure your well-being is okay. [7:47] Well, joining me now is Renee Graham. [7:49] She's an associate editor [7:51] and columnist at the Boston Globe. [7:52] Renee, I know you've been following [7:53] R. Kelly's story very closely. [7:55] I'm so grateful you could join us today. [7:57] From Gayle King's interview, [7:59] what really stood out to you, Renee? [8:03] You know, what was shocking to me [8:04] about the interview was [8:05] I think that R. Kelly and his people [8:07] perhaps thought this would be able [8:08] to paint him as a more sympathetic figure. [8:10] And if that was the goal, [8:11] I think it failed miserably. [8:13] It came off looking like [8:15] the latest chapter of [8:17] Trapped in the Closet. [8:18] You know, he was unhinged. [8:20] He was overwrought. [8:21] He was evasive. [8:23] So I, you know, [8:24] that's what really came off to me. [8:25] It came off of someone [8:26] who was trying to manipulate [8:27] the audience [8:30] the way he allegedly [8:32] has manipulated these women. [8:33] You know, it was remarkable. [8:34] So many people are commenting [8:35] about Gayle King and her composure. [8:37] She actually was speaking [8:38] to my colleague Vlad and Anne-Marie Green [8:40] earlier this morning saying [8:41] at no point did she feel [8:43] that R. Kelly was going [8:44] to threaten or harm her. [8:46] But a tweet that you mentioned [8:47] this morning kind of [8:48] caught our attention. [8:49] And you say, [8:49] now we see exactly [8:51] how R. Kelly believes, [8:52] behaves when challenged [8:54] by a woman. [8:55] That was your tweet. [8:56] Now we see exactly [8:57] how R. Kelly behaves [8:58] when challenged by a woman. [9:00] What does this say [9:01] about his track record? [9:02] And what did you mean [9:02] by that tweet? [9:04] Well, you know, [9:05] in surviving R. Kelly, [9:06] we heard women talking about [9:08] not just sexual violence, [9:10] but physical violence. [9:11] And how if they didn't like [9:13] the right basketball team, [9:14] they would be slapped. [9:16] They would be hit. [9:17] And this sense of domineering [9:19] and control, [9:20] being domineering [9:21] and controlling. [9:22] And that's what it felt like [9:23] a little bit today. [9:24] He is towering over Gayle King, [9:26] who is sitting there [9:28] being the consummate pro [9:29] as he is sort of screaming [9:31] and flailing and crying [9:32] and this whole sort [9:33] of dramatic performance. [9:35] And it just made you wonder [9:36] that if that's what he does [9:37] on camera, you know, [9:39] what is he like [9:40] when nobody's looking? [9:41] Yeah. [9:42] And, you know, [9:42] at one point, [9:43] Gayle tells him, [9:44] you know, Robert, Robert, [9:45] I want to have a conversation [9:46] with you. [9:47] And he kind of calms down [9:48] and he turns to her and says, [9:48] I hope the camera's still rolling. [9:50] And she says, yes, [9:51] it is still rolling. [9:52] But, you know, [9:52] despite all of this, [9:53] Renee, you mentioned [9:55] that after the release [9:56] of Surviving R. Kelly, [9:58] streams of his music [9:59] on Spotify [10:00] increased 16%. [10:02] R. Kelly does have a fan base. [10:04] They've shown up [10:04] after he's been released [10:06] from jail. [10:06] But based on the reaction [10:07] to this interview, [10:08] what do you think [10:09] the court of public opinion [10:10] has to say? [10:12] I do think there may be [10:13] a bit of a shift. [10:15] I think it did make a difference [10:16] when his longtime record label [10:17] dropped him. [10:19] I think that there's a sense [10:20] that, you know, [10:21] it isn't just about the money [10:23] anymore with R. Kelly [10:24] that as someone [10:25] to be affiliated with him, [10:26] he's a bit of a liability. [10:28] So, you know, [10:28] he may get another bump [10:29] on certain streaming services [10:31] and there may be [10:31] a curiosity factor there. [10:33] But I want to believe [10:36] that the career R. Kelly [10:37] has had for the last 30 years [10:39] is effectively over. [10:41] Much has been written [10:42] sort of about the progress [10:44] within this Me Too era. [10:46] You've argued that the voices [10:47] of black women [10:47] have been left out. [10:48] Do you get the sense [10:49] that people will now [10:50] take their voices [10:51] more seriously? [10:54] I think what the movement [10:55] has done is amplify [10:56] all voices. [10:57] And I would certainly hope [10:58] that that would include [10:59] the voices of black women [11:00] among them. [11:01] You know, the thing [11:02] we also have to get back [11:03] to at R. Kelly's, [11:04] these allegations have been [11:04] out there for 25 years, [11:06] a quarter of a century. [11:08] And it seems like [11:09] no one has ever really listened. [11:10] They're listening now. [11:12] People paid attention [11:13] when he was arrested. [11:14] People watched the documentary [11:15] and people certainly watched [11:16] Gayle King's interview [11:17] with him this morning. [11:18] So I have to think [11:19] that their voices [11:20] at last will be amplified. [11:22] But it shouldn't just stop [11:24] with the Kelly accuses. [11:26] I hope it happens [11:27] to other black women as well. [11:28] You know, the unfortunate part [11:29] of the Me Too era, Renee, [11:31] is it takes moments like these [11:32] to re-enter [11:33] the public consciousness, [11:34] to remind people again [11:36] over and over again. [11:37] How do you keep the attention up [11:38] on a serious issue like this [11:40] without having these explosive moments [11:42] to get the world [11:44] to sort of pay attention? [11:46] Well, I think, you know, [11:47] there has to be [11:48] a kind of societal shift [11:49] with Me Too. [11:50] And I think that's exactly [11:51] what Tarana Burke had in mind [11:53] when she founded this [11:53] a decade ago. [11:55] You know, it's about [11:55] these big moments, [11:56] but it's also about [11:57] creating safe spaces [11:59] where victims can tell [12:00] their stories [12:01] without repercussions. [12:02] And I think that's [12:04] what this comes down to. [12:05] If it's just a sort of moment [12:06] where it's R. Kelly [12:07] on TV and flailing, [12:08] but a woman in her office [12:10] or a woman who works [12:11] in a restaurant [12:12] or a young man [12:13] on his hockey team [12:14] feels like he still [12:15] has to keep that secret, [12:17] then the movement [12:19] isn't doing [12:20] what it should be doing [12:21] and we're not responding [12:22] to the movement [12:22] the way we should be. [12:24] Are you optimistic, Renee, [12:25] about the future? [12:27] Cautiously. [12:28] Cautiously optimistic. [12:29] Renee Graham, [12:30] we're always so grateful. [12:31] We love having you on CBSN. [12:32] Thank you for joining us [12:33] and thank you for your time. [12:34] Thank you, Reena.