Prosecution's interview with Lance Twiggs, Tyler Robinson’s roommate

[0:22] All right, turning to a different topic, and Judge, I'm aware that there are going to be some objections about this that we'll have to address, [0:29] but I just want to lay a little bit of foundation first before we get there. [0:34] Are you, you've mentioned him already, are you familiar with an individual named Lance Twiggs? [0:40] Yes, I am. [0:43] And who is he in regards to this investigation? [0:47] He's the roommate of Tyler Robinson. [0:52] Was he interviewed as part of this investigation? [0:54] He was. [0:55] How many times? [0:57] Two times. [0:58] When was the first time? [0:59] The first time was the early morning hours of September 12th, and that occurred at St. George Police Department. [1:07] So we've heard of several people coming in and being spoken with at Washington County Sheriff's Office. [1:15] Correct. [1:16] Mr. Twiggs was spoken with at St. George PD? [1:21] Correct. [1:23] Do you know who was present for that interview? [1:25] It was FBI agents Larson and Agent Ling. [1:28] Are you aware of Mr. Twiggs' buckle swab was taken at that time? [1:34] I don't recall happening there. [1:38] I think, I believe it happened later. [1:39] I'd have to, but it did, it did occur. [1:42] That was obtained from him. [1:43] Okay. [1:44] But you're not sure if it happened on the 12th? [1:46] I don't recall if it was there later at his residence, but. [1:51] But ultimately he, a buckle swab was obtained from Mr. Twiggs? [1:55] Yes, it was. [1:56] Do you know if his phone was taken from him? [2:00] It was. [2:01] When did that happen? [2:03] So it was during that interview with FBI at St. George Police Department. [2:08] They conducted an interview of him, and then he provided his phone. [2:13] He did it voluntarily also, provided it to those agents. [2:17] And that would have been on September 12th, 2025? [2:20] Correct. [2:21] You mentioned a second interview of Mr. Twiggs? [2:25] There was a second interview, yes. [2:27] When did that take place? [2:28] Uh, April 20th of this year. [2:31] Where was that? [2:33] Uh, happened at the Utah County Attorney's Office. [2:36] Who was present at that second interview? [2:38] It, uh, was Mr. Twiggs with his attorney, uh, Jill Cuttrell. [2:43] It was Lauren Hunt, the Sampede with, uh, the U.S. Attorney's Office. [2:49] Ryan McBride, Sergeant L. Scholes. [2:52] Well, now it's Lieutenant L. Scholes and myself. [2:54] We've talked about two interviews of Mr. Twiggs. [2:59] One on the morning of September 12th, 2025, second on April 20th, 2026. [3:06] Are you aware of both of those interviews were recorded? [3:09] They were. [3:12] Have you reviewed those recordings? [3:14] I have. [3:17] Before Mr. Twiggs' interview on April 20th, 2026, well, first, let me ask you this. [3:22] Are you aware of what use immunity means? [3:25] Uh, yes. [3:26] What does it mean? [3:27] It's, it's a letter that the use of immunity is essentially giving the individual, uh, during [3:36] the limited time of, of their statement, they're given, uh, that immunity from statements [3:41] that are made in regard to an incident. [3:44] Um, but it does not preclude them from prosecution, um, from evidence that would be known or found [3:51] then or later outside of that interview. [3:53] It just gives them that limited immunity during the type of, uh, during the type of the interview. [3:58] Okay. [3:59] So for any statements made during the interview, they're given immunity for that, but they're [4:04] not generally prohibited from being, uh, potentially prosecuted outside of that interview. [4:09] Is that fair? [4:09] That's my understanding. [4:10] Yes. [4:13] Was Mr. Twiggs given use immunity? [4:16] Yes, he was. [4:17] By what offices? [4:18] The Utah County Attorney's Office, as well as the United States Attorney's Office. [4:22] You mentioned that both of Mr. Twiggs' interviews were recorded. [4:29] Have you reviewed those recordings? [4:31] Yes, I have. [4:32] Do they fairly and accurately depict those interviews? [4:35] Yes, they do. [4:41] We've talked about 1102 statements. [4:44] We've talked about a form and you, you talked about that there's an admonition on there that, [4:48] that warns that if false statements are given pursuant to 1102, then that person may be subject [4:54] to a class A misdemeanor. [4:56] Is that fair? [4:57] Yes, that's correct. [4:57] Was a similar admonition given to Mr. Twiggs during his second, or before his second interview [5:06] on April 20th, 2026? [5:09] Yes, it was. [5:11] By whom? [5:12] By Ryan McBride with the Utah County Attorney's Office. [5:16] And again, you were present for that interview? [5:17] I was. [5:19] Did Mr. Twiggs say that he understood that admonition? [5:22] He did, yep, yes. [5:23] Was he told that the April 20th, 2026 interview was being taken in lieu of him having to come [5:33] and testify at the preliminary hearing? [5:35] Yes, he was. [5:36] Yes, he was. [5:36] Just for the record and the court's benefit, we have made the edits that the court has ordered. [5:43] We have shown them to defense pursuant to the timestamps that the court ordered. [5:48] We wanted those to be reflected very clearly. [5:51] So there are sometimes large gaps of just black, empty, silent space. [5:57] When there are large gaps, we will fast forward. [6:00] Some of those are short enough that we'll just let it play if the court is okay with proceeding that way. [6:05] Thank you. [6:06] I appreciate giving a heads up so all parties know what's going on. [6:11] Thank you, Ms. Hunt. [6:11] So at this time, we would move to publish on the monitors State's Exhibit 16. [6:20] All right. [6:20] And to the media, there is a monitor for your benefit right there next to you. [6:25] For the camera, there is one for that direction as well as for the gallery. [6:30] The thing is to use your statement here instead of your testimony at a preliminary hearing. [6:54] You understand that? [6:56] So in order to do that, I need to place you under oath and also give you an admonition about false statements. [7:04] Okay. [7:05] First, you do solemnly swear or affirm that the evidence you shall give in this issue shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. [7:14] So help you, God? [7:15] Yes. [7:16] I also need to notify you that you are notified the statements you are about to make may be presented to a magistrate or a judge in lieu of your sworn testimony at a preliminary examination. [7:28] Any false statement you make and that you do not believe to be true may subject you to criminal punishment as a Class A misdemeanor. [7:37] Do you understand that? [7:38] Yes. [7:38] It potentially could be used for punishment as a higher offense, as obstruction of justice. [7:46] In addition, I just want to make sure that our recording here is clear that you've also been given a federal agreement and a state agreement granting you immunity from prosecution for materials that you discuss now. [8:03] Do you understand that? [8:04] Mm-hmm. [8:05] Okay. [8:07] First, we're going to cover some of the things that you've already talked about, but to make it as part of this record. [8:15] First, what's your name? [8:18] A full name with a middle name or just first and last? [8:20] First and last is fine. [8:21] Okay. [8:21] My name is Lance Twiggs. [8:23] And do you know Tyler Robinson? [8:26] Yes, I do. [8:27] Well, yeah, I do. [8:29] And this is the same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of Charlie Kirk. [8:33] Yes. [8:34] And would you say when you first met Tyler? [8:39] I think it was 2023. [8:40] I've known him longer than that, though. [8:42] That was, I think, the first time I met him in person. [8:44] Okay. [8:50] And will you describe your relationship with Tyler when you first met him anyway? [8:58] When I first met him, I didn't know him super well. [9:01] He was just a new roommate, so I knew he knew my friend group, and I knew he liked playing games, but that's about it when we first, like, when he first moved in. [9:15] Okay. [9:16] Before we go on, I realize my mic was muted at the outset. [9:19] Was your mic on? [9:20] Your mic on? [9:22] I don't like it. [9:22] Okay. [9:23] I'm going to repeat those admonitions just to make sure we got it recorded. [9:27] Okay. [9:27] So, again, I placed you under oath. [9:30] Just to make a record, I'm going to do it again. [9:34] You just always swear that the evidence you shall give in this issue shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth shall be gone. [9:42] Yes. [9:42] And, again, I'm going to give you the false ad statement. [9:46] Sorry. [9:47] Hold on. [9:50] They're saying that it's echoing. [9:52] I think this one's mic is on. [9:53] Okay. [9:54] Sorry. [9:55] Okay. [9:56] You're not on my mic. [9:57] That's fine. [9:58] Okay. [9:58] So, we should be good. [9:59] All right. [10:08] Is that mic on? [10:09] Yes. [10:10] Okay. [10:11] Great. [10:12] All right. [10:13] Okay. [10:13] Sorry about that interruption. [10:15] All right. [10:15] So, you said when you first met, you were roommates? [10:19] Yeah. [10:20] Okay. [10:20] And then, at some point, your relationship progressed to something more than just roommates, right? [10:25] Mm-hmm. [10:26] When was that? [10:27] I think we started dating two or three months after we moved in. [10:32] Okay. [10:33] And where did you live at that time? [10:35] St. George in an apartment complex. [10:38] And is that apartment the same place you lived on September 10th? [10:44] Yes. [10:46] When you lived there with Tyler, were you in the same room? [10:51] Did you live in the same room or different rooms? [10:53] Separate rooms. [10:54] And at that time, let's say September of 2025, what were you doing with your life? [11:03] Were you working, school? [11:04] I was working. [11:06] I was doing, like, bathtub and shower repair and stuff and new construction. [11:11] Okay. [11:12] How about Tyler? [11:13] I think he was both working. [11:16] I think he was working for an electrician company then, and he was also in a trade school [11:23] for being a, I don't know, higher, like, ranking electrician. [11:27] I'm not sure how the trade system works for that. [11:30] Okay. [11:30] But, yeah, I think he was both. [11:32] What was his typical workday like? [11:34] I think he'd leave around 7, generally, and get back around 3 to 4, depending on, like, [11:44] where the job was and how long it was for the day. [11:48] And then on certain days of the week during school, like, semesters, he would then later [11:56] in the day, I think around 5 or 6, go to school. [12:00] So, yeah. [12:01] Okay. [12:01] Let's jump to September 10th. [12:04] Did he spend the night in the apartment the night of September 9th into September 10th? [12:11] Into September. [12:12] Yeah, he did. [12:14] Yes. [12:15] Do you know when he left the apartment on September 10th? [12:17] I don't know an exact time. [12:19] I just know he left early. [12:22] I heard him leaving, and he just said he had, like, a long drive to work that day, so he [12:27] was leaving early. [12:28] Okay. [12:29] So, early. [12:31] Any guess as to what, when that was? [12:36] I don't know. [12:38] I would have thought it was 5 a.m., because that's when, like, an early work day was for [12:43] him, but it was probably more, like, 4. [12:46] Okay. [12:49] I'm as bad as gum, just to make sure that... [12:51] I can do that. [12:52] You're right in front of your laptop. [12:54] Oh, here you go. [12:56] Thank you. [12:57] So, what time did you get up on September 10th? [13:14] Probably, like, 12 to 1 p.m. [13:17] You didn't have to work that day? [13:19] No. [13:20] And did you hear from Tyler? [13:22] Did he call or text you before then? [13:24] Uh, no. [13:25] He sent that message in the group chat I mentioned, but he didn't message me directly at all that [13:31] day. [13:32] Okay. [13:32] When did you first hear from him on September 10th? [13:36] It was at 11 o'clock with that, like, automated message. [13:40] Okay. [13:40] 11 p.m.? [13:41] Yeah. [13:41] He asks you here, remember how I was engraving bullets? [14:13] Was he engraving bullets before this? [14:15] Uh, yeah, I don't remember exactly when, but he had said he was planning to go hunting with [14:21] his family. [14:23] And he asked me for a, if we had, like, a Dremel to, because he said he wanted to create [14:29] messages on bullets. [14:30] Um, and I just told him where Dremel was, and I told him to make sure he doesn't, like, [14:37] set off a bullet on accident in the house. [14:40] Um, but I didn't really think about it until then. [14:43] How long before, um, September 10th was this that he asked about the Dremel? [14:49] I, I don't remember, because he'd been talking about the, uh, hunting-slash-camping trip for [14:57] a couple months, but I, I don't remember when he was specifically asking to engrave the bullets. [15:05] So, so are we talking, like, a year before? [15:07] Oh, no, not, not that, not that long. [15:09] It would have been, I'd say at most a month before this was when he was asking. [15:14] Okay. [15:14] You talked about the note that he left. [15:32] Um, I want to bring this up, and I should say that, um, these text messages that we've [15:38] been looking at here are, um, Bates number 54, okay? [15:46] Uh, the notes have been titled 16.3, with a note, and this is Bates number 58. [15:56] Do you recognize that, that on this screen there? [16:00] Yeah, yeah. [16:01] What do you recognize it as? [16:03] Um, that was the note under his keyboard that he was referring to in the first, [16:08] text of that chain. [16:10] Okay, so where did you find this? [16:13] On, on his desk, underneath his, like, uh, computer keyboard. [16:20] And, uh, what, I assume you read it? [16:29] Yeah. [16:29] And then what did you do with it after you read it? [16:32] Um, I believe I just put it back down on the desk after I took a picture of it. [16:38] Okay. [16:38] And again, the time you read it was probably around 11 o'clock or so on the 10th? [16:43] Yes. [16:43] The night of September 10th. [16:45] Mm-hmm. [16:48] Right? [16:49] Did you ever see that again after you placed it back on his desk? [16:52] Uh, no, I don't think I did. [16:56] And that was a desk in his bedroom? [16:58] Yes. [16:59] And that's a separate bedroom than your bedroom? [17:01] Yeah. [17:01] I now want to go to, uh, what's been titled 16.2. [17:10] And do you recognize this series of messages here? [17:19] Um, yeah. [17:22] That was the server of, like, his friend that I was mentioning. [17:28] Okay. [17:28] And this is your phone again? [17:30] Uh, yeah. [17:31] And I'm assuming you recognize it because the big crack up at the top. [17:36] Mm-hmm. [17:37] And so this is a server. [17:40] Is this Discord? [17:41] Yeah, this is Discord. [17:43] And who are members of this server? [17:46] I don't want names, just generally. [17:47] Who are these people? [17:48] This is his friend group. [17:50] They play D&D together every week. [17:53] Okay. [17:55] And I just want to scroll through this to make sure that I get a chance to take a look at it. [18:00] Or go to the next page? [18:03] Mm-hmm. [18:04] Yes. [18:14] So, Tyler Icom, who's that? [18:17] That's Tyler Robinson. [18:18] And these other people are just others that are members of the server? [18:23] Yes. [18:23] Jug, Barnaby, Marina, DM. [18:26] Mm-hmm. [18:27] Yes. [18:28] Yeah. [18:28] Like, DM means dungeon mastery. [18:30] So, these are, like, most of them are names they're using in the game they're playing currently. [18:36] Got it. [18:37] It looks like the last text from Tyler, it looks like it's 8 p.m. [18:55] And do you know what day this would have been? [18:56] 8 p.m. on the 10th or the 11th? [18:58] I would think that would be the 11th, at least I think so, because I don't think on the 10th that he messaged anyone before me at, like, 11. [19:13] And he turned himself in on the 11th, right? [19:16] I thought so, yeah. [19:17] Okay. [19:21] So, we're just going to go through this so that we have a record of the messages. [19:26] Is that an accurate recording of that thread? [19:48] To my knowledge, yes. [19:49] And that was sent, it looks like, between September 10th and September 12th. [19:55] It looks like the last day on this is September 12th. [19:58] Screen? [19:59] Yes. [20:00] All right. [20:22] So, again, those messages covered from September 10th to the evening of September 11th. [20:28] Now, September 11th, what time did or did you see Ty, however, on September 11th? [20:37] Yes. [20:38] When did you first see him on September 11th? [20:40] So, this is the day after the shoot? [20:41] Yeah, I saw him when I woke up. [20:44] Like I said, he was up and around doing a lot of stuff around the house. [20:51] And then I think I saw him after that message where I said, I'll come home and say I'm doing laundry. [20:59] Because I didn't want him going to my parents' house right then when he said there was probably cops outside. [21:06] So, I went back home and it was just him there and I said bye to him and then he drove off. [21:12] So, I just went back to my parents' house. [21:42] So, he acted erratically. [21:44] Was he pacing? [21:47] Was he just sitting down, relaxing? [21:49] No, he was walking around a lot. [21:52] And that's within the home? [21:53] Mm-hmm. [21:54] And did he talk about what he had done? [22:00] I didn't go into detail. [22:02] He just, I just asked him in person if what he said was true the night before and he said it was. [22:10] I started crying a little bit and said he wishes he hadn't done it. [22:13] And then kept going around and just doing stuff, I think, to keep himself busy or distracted or something. [22:23] Okay. [22:24] Did he talk about what he was going to do next? [22:28] And then eventually said that he would talk to his parents or turn himself over. [22:40] And when you left, was that how you left understanding that he was going to turn himself in or go to his parents' house? [22:49] Yeah. [22:50] And I didn't really want to be at our apartment while any of that was happening, regardless of what went down. [22:57] Okay. [22:57] Before he came home, had you seen the press releases, any of the media on this? [23:11] I'd seen one Instagram, like, link a friend of mine had sent in our group chat. [23:19] But I hadn't really looked into it at all. [23:23] And had you seen the images that were released of the suspect? [23:27] I did the next day. [23:29] I don't think I saw any on the 10th. [23:32] I'm going to show you a couple of those images. [23:35] Hey, I'm on the FBI's website. [23:48] You can see the URL there at the top. [23:51] This is a press release about this event. [23:55] And here on the screen, you see these, there's, looks like there's two rows of three images. [24:02] Do you recognize the person in these images? [24:05] I wouldn't say with 100% certainty just because of camera quality, but that looks like him in terms of the shoes he's wearing, the sunglasses. [24:15] I don't think I'd specifically seen him wearing that hat, but he was usually wearing a hat. [24:20] And then jeans. [24:23] So, it definitely, especially the bottom, the lashes look like him. [24:35] They do look like Tyler Robinson. [24:41] And you talked about that with your friends, right? [24:44] His friends, yeah. [24:47] I don't, I don't know if I talked, I don't remember if I talked about it with any of my friends. [24:52] And then since I didn't have my phone after that for a while and I still am not using social media, I don't, I don't know, on my friend's end. [25:02] Okay. [25:04] All right. [25:05] I want to back up a little bit now. [25:06] We've talked about September 10th, but let me get a little bit of context here. [25:11] So, did you game with Tyler? [25:15] Yeah. [25:15] What kind of games? [25:16] We played some just kind of party games together, like stuff, anything that would be multiplayer with a group of friends. [25:26] There was one game he really liked called Sea of Thieves, where he plays like a pirate. [25:30] And you can fight against people, but most of it's just like fishing, fighting sharks, skeletons kind of stuff. [25:39] We played some co-op games where it's like you both have to work together to win in whatever way. [25:45] Way back when, like when I was just out of high school, when I first knew him online, we played some like shooting games together, but I didn't know him very well. [25:58] So, that was just when we had like a whole friend group on to play and he was someone that my friends invited. [26:03] Okay. [26:04] Did you and he ever talk about politics? [26:07] He did more than me. [26:10] I didn't really, still don't really keep up with politics very much. [26:15] He'd usually talk about stuff he heard on the radio on his drive to work in like their work car, since it sounds like their whole crew went in the same car most of the time. [26:27] But I wouldn't say super consistently, because it wasn't a topic I really contributed much on. [26:34] How about Charlie Kirk? [26:35] Did you ever talk about Charlie Kirk? [26:37] I personally had never heard him talk about Charlie Kirk before, specifically. [26:42] Okay. [26:43] How about political issues? [26:49] So, did you ever talk about gender identity issues and LGBTQ rights? [26:55] No, not really. [26:59] Usually, if he did talk about politics stuff, it was relating to Trump or current like policies being like issued or voted on, I think. [27:12] But yeah. [27:13] Okay. [27:35] So, before that you have been? [27:37] For a short time, yes. [27:39] And I understand you're going by Luna at some point? [27:44] To some people, yeah, but not as an overall thing. [27:47] All the questions I have for this portion, let me check and see if I've missed anything. [28:26] The Dremel that you talked about, you said he had asked for that, is that right? [28:51] Mm-hmm. [28:52] And had he told you it was to inscribe bullets? [28:55] Yeah. [28:55] And so, did you have a Dremel then? [28:59] Yeah. [28:59] Okay. [29:00] It was in our, like, we had a, our apartment, we had a section where we kept all our, like, random tools for household stuff in our, like, lower basement level pantry. [29:11] So, yeah. [29:12] Okay. [29:13] And did you give that to him or tell him where it was? [29:15] I just told him where it was, yeah. [29:16] I'm going to go ahead and end the recording for the 11 of two purposes. [29:42] Includes State's Exhibit 16. [29:44] Ms. Hunt. [29:45] Thank you, Judge. [29:47] Agent Davis, I asked you yesterday, but I want to remind the court and those present. [29:54] Were you physically present at the interview we just watched in State's Exhibit 16? [29:59] Yes, I was there. [30:03] And aside from the court-ordered redactions, did it appear to you to be fair and accurate about what you remember that interview that day? [30:14] Yes. [30:15] Yes, I do. [30:17] During that interview, did Mr. Twiggs, was he shown or referenced certain items of evidence? [30:25] Yes, he was. [30:26] What types of items of evidence was he shown? [30:29] It was the text messages between himself and Tyler Robinson, a Discord chat messages, and a handwritten note. [30:40] And then we also saw in the video he was also shown the FBI press release photos of the potential suspect? [30:48] That's correct, yes. [30:50] Have you reviewed all of those items as part of the investigation? [30:53] Yes, I have. [30:54] You're familiar with them? [30:56] Yes. [30:56] All right, I want to put just on the witnesses' screen what's been marked for identification of States Exhibit 16.1. [31:04] And for the record, this includes the one edit that the court has previously ordered. [31:11] Thank you. [31:12] Let me know when you see that on your screen. [31:14] I see it. [31:38] I see it now. [31:40] Do you recognize this? [31:42] Yes, I do. [31:43] What is it? [31:43] This is a photograph of screenshots of text messages between Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs. [31:53] This is a photograph of Lance's phone. [31:58] So, sorry, you said photograph, you also said screenshot. [32:00] Can you differentiate or clarify there? [32:04] Yes, sorry. [32:05] These are photographs directly from Lance's phone. [32:09] How do you know that? [32:10] In Lance's first interview, he is showing the FBI agents these text messages, describes them to the agents. [32:23] And at that time, his phone was photographed. [32:29] And you testified, I believe, yesterday that Mr. Twiggs' first interview was the morning of September 12, 2025. [32:36] Is that correct? [32:37] That's correct, yes. [32:39] Were you physically present at that interview? [32:41] No, I was not there. [32:43] Have you spoken with the officers or agents that were? [32:47] Yes, I've spoken to one of those agents that was there. [32:55] And you stated that that first September 12th interview of Mr. Twiggs was recorded? [33:00] Yes, audio, video recorded. [33:02] Have you reviewed that recording? [33:04] Yes, I have. [33:05] So, you stated that we're looking in State's Exhibit 16.1 at a picture of Mr. Twiggs' phone. [33:13] Yes. [33:14] Do you know who took these photos? [33:16] Yes, it was Agent Larson with FBI. [33:18] Did you speak with Agent Larson and confirm that? [33:21] I did. [33:22] And you kind of made reference to this already, but how did Mr. Twiggs initially show law enforcement the relevant text messages? [33:30] Yeah, during that first interview on September 12th, he physically, he shows them the phone and then allows them to photograph the phone. [33:40] And does he identify it as his phone in that interview? [33:46] Yes, he does. [33:47] Does he refer to any particular features of the phone that allows him to make that identification? [33:53] The second interview refers to the large crack in the upper left screen. [33:58] So, he identifies that from his second interview that was given on April 20th. [34:06] And according to your review of the recording of his first interview and in speaking with the agents that were there, did he have his personal phone with him at the time of the September 12th interview? [34:19] Yes, he did. [34:19] And was this same text thread that we're seeing in State's Exhibit 16.1 shown to him during his second interview in, sorry, let me get the date right, April 20th, 2026 at the Utah County Attorney's Office that we just observed part of in State's Exhibit 16? [34:41] Yes, it was shown to him. [34:46] Was he asked how Tyler Robinson is saved in his phone, like as a contact? [34:51] Yeah, Justice Tyler. [34:53] Without saying it, obviously, did he identify Tyler Robinson's phone number? [34:58] Yes, he did. [35:00] Did you check the number that Mr. Twiggs gave as Tyler Robinson's phone number against law enforcement records? [35:06] Yes, I did. [35:07] And do they match? [35:07] Yes, they match. [35:09] Is State's Exhibit 16.1 a fair and accurate representation of the relevant text thread between Mr. Twiggs and Mr. Robinson? [35:18] Yes, it is. [35:18] As part of the investigation, was a Cellbrite extraction performed on Mr. Twiggs' phone? [35:26] Yes, I was. [35:28] Did you personally review that extraction? [35:31] Yes, I have. [35:34] And according to that extraction, did Mr. Robinson and Mr. Twiggs exchange text messages on September 10th through 11th, 2025? [35:43] Yes, they did. [35:45] What time was that first text sent according to the Cellbrite extraction? [35:49] The first text was September 10th at 11 p.m. [35:52] All right, Judge, I would move to admit State's Exhibit 16.1, and then pursuant to court order, I would move to publish it to the monitors. [36:12] So, Novak? [36:13] We have no further objections beyond those that the court courses are familiar with at this point in time. [36:19] All right, I'll note the standing objections made by defense. [36:24] Those objections are overruled. [36:27] The 16.1 is admitted into evidence and may be published to the gallery as well as electronically distributed through the camera. [36:36] All right, Agent, I want to—I'm not going to go through every single message, but I do want to have you read aloud certain portions of them. [36:47] And I apologize to counsel, these are not actually given a page number. [36:53] I have page numbers, but I'm happy to confer that we're on the same page as we go. [36:59] So, here we're looking at page one of State's Exhibit 16.1. [37:05] If you could start—if you could read a little more than halfway down where it begins Wednesday, 11 p.m., will you start reading underneath that? [37:17] Yes. [37:18] So, this would have been from Tyler. [37:21] It says, drop what you're doing, look under your keyboard. [37:25] And I apologize. [37:26] Let me stop you there. [37:26] How do you know that this—that message would have been from Tyler Robinson? [37:30] That's just—so, any of the messages in gray would be from Tyler, and the message in blue would be from Lance. [37:37] It's just the way the iPhone distinguishes the messages. [37:41] And also, Lance—Lance in his interview also acknowledges that, who was saying what. [37:47] And up at the top, who do we see that this thread is—is between? [37:53] Uh, Tyler. [37:55] All right, sorry to interrupt you. [37:57] So, so read that again, starting from look under the keyboard. [38:00] Uh, so, so, uh, after that, then Lance responds. [38:05] He says, what? [38:06] And then he says, you're joking, right? [38:09] And then Tyler says, fuck, I tried to delete that. [38:12] If we could scroll down to page two, and if you can continue reading along. [38:22] Okay, uh, and Tyler says, I'm still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for a little while longer yet. [38:29] Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but gotta grab my rifle still. [38:33] To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. [38:37] I am sorry to involve you. [38:38] And then Lance replies, you weren't the one who did it, right? [38:44] And Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry. [38:47] And then Lance says, I thought they caught the person. [38:51] And then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude and interrogated someone in similar clothing. [38:57] I had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. [39:04] It's quiet almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. [39:08] If we could scroll down to page three. [39:13] Continue reading. [39:15] Uh, Lance says, why? [39:17] And Tyler says, why did I do it? [39:19] And Lance says, yeah. [39:22] Tyler says, I had enough of his hatred. [39:23] Some hate can't be negotiated out. [39:26] If I'm able to grab, to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. [39:31] Going to attempt to retrieve it again. [39:33] Hopefully they have moved on. [39:35] I haven't seen anything in the news about them finding it. [39:38] We'll update you shortly. [39:39] Or Charlie, we'll update you by midnight. [39:42] And then Lance says, all right, stay safe. [39:44] How long have you been planning this? [39:47] Scroll down a little bit, please, Kimberly. [39:50] And Tyler replies, a bit over a week, I believe. [39:54] I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked right by it. [39:57] I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it. [40:01] We can scroll down to page four and continue reading about halfway down. [40:09] I'll stop you about halfway down. [40:11] This is while they were a little spot, but I don't want to chance it. [40:15] While they were parked there. [40:16] If they'd found it, I imagine there would be more commotion. [40:20] Again, I'm sorry for roping you into all of this. [40:22] You shouldn't have to worry about this. [40:24] And Lance replies, does anyone else know? [40:28] Tyler says, not to my knowledge. [40:30] All right, I'll stop you there. [40:32] Let's move to page five. [40:35] So this should be page four. [40:36] So just scroll down one, please, Kimberly. [40:40] And if you could read starting... [40:46] Sorry, Kimberly, scroll a bit more down. [40:51] If you could read, I don't know, about one third of the way up that starts with guess. [40:58] Okay. [41:00] Tyler says, guess I'm just sitting in my car watching reels for another hour, hoping this guy fucks off. [41:08] And continue. [41:10] And Lance says, are you okay still? [41:13] And Tyler says, yes, check and spot again now. [41:16] We'll... [41:18] Sorry, now we're on page six. [41:20] Continue reading. [41:21] We'll update soon. [41:23] He continues, the squad car was moved further away, enough that I should be able to move in. [41:27] I backed off because I thought I heard footsteps, maybe a foot patrol. [41:31] But the crickets here are so fucking loud. [41:35] Gonna see if the road closer to campus is open so I can drive past and check shit out. [41:41] Probably still closed off, though. [41:43] Getting worried, hard to know for sure. [41:46] But I'm not finding my rifle. [41:47] Could be in the wrong spot. [41:50] Lance says, do you think they found it? [41:53] And Tyler says, don't know. [41:55] They haven't published anything, if they have. [41:58] And then Lance says, why did you leave it behind? [42:03] Oh, sorry, Kimberly, if you could scroll down. [42:05] Originally. [42:09] Also, does it have a serial number? [42:11] We could scroll to page seven and I'll continue reading. [42:19] I'll stop you on this page in a little bit. [42:23] Okay. [42:24] So Tyler continues. [42:26] I had to leave it in a bush where I changed outfits. [42:39] Didn't have the ability or time to bring it with. [42:41] And stop there, please. [42:43] And then if we could go to the next page, page eight. [42:50] And if you could start at the top. [42:51] Okay, so Lance says, was your change of clothes there or was that also gone? [42:59] Or did you bring those with you originally? [43:01] Anyway, you could replace the gun or would he notice? [43:07] And then Tyler says, only thing I left was the rifle wrapped in a towel. [43:11] I'll bet that canine sniffed it out. [43:13] A little snitching bastard. [43:15] Replace it unlikely. [43:17] I don't fully know what the gun was because it was old as shit and Gramps did some modifying. [43:23] There was a four-digit serial on it. [43:25] God only knows who it's registered to. [43:28] Hopefully, some dead guy who gave it to Grandpa. [43:32] And he continues. [43:33] Remember how I was engraving bullets? [43:36] The fucking messages are mostly a big meme. [43:38] If I see notices, bulge, UWU on Fox News. [43:43] I might have a stroke. [43:46] And then continue. [43:47] I'll stop you in a moment. [43:48] He says, all right, I'm going to have to leave it. [43:51] That really fucking sucks. [43:52] Let me stop you there. [43:54] And then if we could go on to the next page, page nine. [44:00] And do you see the first blue message we see on page nine? [44:05] Can you start there? [44:06] Yes. [44:08] So Lance says, do you need it for hunting? [44:12] And Tyler says, no, my dad wanted to use it to use a high caliber for the rifle hunt. [44:17] Judging from today, I say Gramps gun does just fine. [44:21] IDK. [44:21] I think that was a 2K scope. [44:27] Lance says, geez. [44:29] And then Tyler says, alum W home, 3.5 hours. [44:35] Lance says, drive safe. [44:37] And then Tyler says, delete this exchange. [44:39] And I'll stop you right there. [44:42] And then, sorry, we're on page nine. [44:43] If we can scroll to page 15. [44:45] And then the second grade message on page 15, if you could start there. [45:08] Okay. [45:08] So this is Tyler. [45:10] I'm going to turn myself in willingly. [45:12] One of my neighbors here is a deputy for the sheriff. [45:15] We hope to keep things sort of quiet here. [45:18] And then I'll stop you there. [45:19] Okay. [45:19] And we can remove the exhibit from the screen. [45:23] Thank you, Kimberly. [45:24] We mentioned a Cellbrite extraction of Mr. Twig's phone. [45:31] Do you know what time that last text was sent? [45:35] Yeah, I recall it was just before 8 p.m. on September 11th. [45:40] It was, I think, 7.42 p.m. is my recollection. [45:43] I'm sorry, September 11th? [45:45] Yes. [45:46] Would September 12th make sense, or you're saying September 11th? [45:57] So September 11th was when we turned himself in, September 11th. [46:02] Okay, thank you. [46:04] All right, I'm going to show, just for the witness, State's Exhibit 16.2. [46:18] Let me know when you see that. [46:20] Okay, I see it. [46:21] Do you recognize this? [46:23] I do, yep. [46:24] What is it? [46:25] This is just more photos of Lance's phone. [46:28] How do you? [46:31] These are, sorry, these are the, sorry, I had to play, sorry, go with your question, please. [46:40] I'm just asking what it is. [46:42] So you said it's a photo of Lance's phone. [46:44] Do you know if that's from the same time period as the exhibit we just looked at? [46:47] Yes. [46:48] And what is it of? [46:50] These are the Discord messages that Lance had talked about. [46:56] How do you know that? [46:57] So Lance, in the first interview with FBI, shows the phone, the photos are taken by Agent Larson, [47:04] and then these images are shown to Lance during a second interview, [47:08] and he confirms that these are those same messages, and this is photos of Lance's phone. [47:14] You mentioned an Agent Larson took the photos. [47:18] Do you know if he's the same agent that took the photos of this exhibit, 16.2? [47:22] Yes, same agent. [47:24] And you spoke with him to confirm that? [47:26] Yes, I did. [47:26] Are you aware if Mr. Twiggs is actually part of this Discord thread? [47:32] He, yes, he is a part of it. [47:35] He doesn't, in this section, he doesn't reply to it, but he does state in his statement that he was part of that thread. [47:44] Does he identify whether Mr. Robinson is part of that thread? [47:47] He does. [47:48] And when did that happen? [47:49] He identifies that in this first interview with the two FBI agents, and then he again confirms that in the second interview. [47:59] Did Mr. Twiggs say what username on Discord Mr. Robinson used, at least with respect to this thread? [48:05] Yes, it's the Tyler slash IKUM, I-K-U-M. [48:10] And is 16, exhibit 16.2, a fair and accurate representation of that Discord thread? [48:16] Yes, it is. [48:17] Did law enforcement send, as part of your investigation, did law enforcement send a subpoena to Discord? [48:25] Yes, they did. [48:28] Were these messages recovered via that subpoena? [48:31] They were. [48:32] Did you review that? [48:33] Yes, I did. [48:36] And in State's Exhibit 16.2 that is before you, when is the first message from Tyler sent? [48:45] 7.57 p.m. [48:48] And it says yesterday. Do you have any knowledge of what day that would have been? [48:53] Yes, this would have been September 11th. [49:02] So Tyler sends the first message that you're seeing on Exhibit 16.2, September 11th at 7.57 p.m.? [49:09] Yes, that's correct. [49:10] You testified earlier that Mr. Robinson arrived at the Washington County Sheriff's Office approximately at 9 p.m., is that right? [49:18] Yes, that's correct. [49:19] And although you weren't physically present there yet because you were flying down, how do you know that he arrived approximately around 9 p.m.? [49:28] Just based on the police reports I reviewed and then go back and look at the video and such. [49:42] Judge, the state moves to admit State's Exhibit 16.2 and publish it pursuant to court order. [49:52] Mr. Novak. [49:52] Thank you. [49:53] We've already lodged all of our objections on all three phases. [49:56] Noting the objections, standing objections by defense, State's Exhibit 16.2 is admitted into evidence and may be published only in the gallery, not for distribution on electronic media. [50:13] I see it. [50:14] Do you recognize this? [50:16] I do. [50:17] What is this? [50:18] This is a handwritten note or letter from Tyler to Lance. [50:24] How do you know that? [50:25] In Lance's first interview with FBI, he tells them about this letter, note he found under Tyler's keyboard per a text message he received. [50:37] He states from, you know, 11 p.m. on September 10th. [50:41] And so at that point, Lance finds this. [50:45] This is the letter he finds under that keyboard. [50:47] Okay, so to clarify, Mr. Twiggs gets a text from Mr. Robinson around 11 p.m. on September 10th telling him to look under his keyboard? [50:57] Yes, correct. [50:58] And this is what Mr. Twiggs represented was underneath the keyboard? [51:03] Yes. [51:04] Yes. [51:04] How did law enforcement get this photograph? [51:12] So following Lance's first interview at St. George PD, his phone is recovered at that point, taken into evidence. [51:21] It is downloaded, I believe it was the following day or shortly after that. [51:27] The FBI transported that phone to the RCFL, which is the Regional Computer Forensic Laboratory in Salt Lake City. [51:35] The phone was downloaded through Celebrite. [51:38] And after that, following that download that was complete, SBI received a flash drive containing that download. [51:50] From there, it went to a SIAC analyst to go through that data of his phone to look for any pertinent evidence or information that may be on there. [52:01] And at that point, this image of this letter was located. [52:10] All right, I'm going to break down a few things. [52:13] You mentioned, I just want to make sure the record's clear, you mentioned Celebrite a few times. [52:18] What is Celebrite? [52:19] It's a downloading software that's commonly used by law enforcement. [52:22] I don't do that myself, but it's commonly used to recover data, to download electronic devices, particularly cell phones. [52:32] And then you mentioned SIAC. [52:33] What does that mean? [52:34] It's the Statewide Information Analysis Center. [52:37] It's a division within DPS. [52:41] It's a fusion center. [52:42] They assist law enforcement with intelligence, various intelligence information for our investigations. [52:51] You mentioned that you don't personally do Celebrite phone extractions. [52:56] Have you spoken to the law enforcement officers that performed the Celebrite extraction on Mr. Twigg's phone in this case? [53:03] I don't believe I specifically talked to those individuals, RCFL, that did that. [53:11] But, yeah, that was then provided to SBI. [53:16] Did you speak with officers at SBI that have recovered this photo that we're seeing in State's Exhibit 16.3? [53:22] Yes, yes, I've spoken to, yeah, I have spoken with an SIAC analyst who particularly, in particular, found this image. [53:30] I've spoken to her personally as well. [53:32] Was Mr. Twigg's shown what's been marked as State's Exhibit 16.3 during his second interview? [53:39] Yes, he was. [53:40] And again, you were present for that? [53:42] Yes, I was there. [53:43] Is Exhibit 16.3 a fair and accurate representation of the photo law enforcement obtained from Mr. Twigg's phone and that he was subsequently shown in the second interview? [53:54] Yes, it's fair and accurate. [53:58] Your Honor, the State would move to admit Exhibit 16.3 and then also publish pursuant to court order. [54:07] Mr. Novak. [54:07] Just noting the objections that have previously been made, and I think that the court's order is that it may be published in the courtroom only. [54:15] Thank you. [54:17] Noting the standing objection by defense, 16.3, correct? [54:22] Correct. [54:23] Is admitted into evidence and may be published only in the courtroom and not be shown or videoed. [54:31] I do. [54:32] What is it? [54:33] These are the images that the FBI released to the public. [54:37] It would have been on September 11th when it was released. [54:40] And this was, yeah, those were those images that went public of the suspected UVU shooting suspect. [54:46] How do you know that? [54:48] I've viewed the FBI's website, and I recall seeing these images released on September 11th. [54:55] Does State's Exhibit 16.4, is that a fair and accurate representation of what you reviewed from the FBI and that the FBI released? [55:04] Yes, it is. [55:06] The State moves to admit Exhibit 16.4 and publish according to court order. [55:15] Mr. Novak. [55:16] No further objections. [55:17] Noting the standing objection by defense, overruling that objection, State's Exhibit 16.4 is admitted into evidence and may be published in the courtroom. [55:32] And again, in the discord. [55:37] As it relates to 5.1, the court previously, the day that I did it, I believe it was day two, perhaps? [55:46] That sounds correct. [55:46] The court provisionally admitted it, contingent on additional foundation being laid, whether through testimony or through evidence. [55:56] And the court notes that such foundation and testimony has been laid in order for the foundation to be laid for 5.1 to be admitted into evidence for full consideration by this court. [56:11] And so that is received. [56:12] As it relates to publication and taking into consideration the argument by Mr. Novak, well, first noting the objection, the standing objections by defense. [56:27] And that is overruled as it relates to the admission to 5.1. [56:32] But going to the publication, the court understands the argument made by defense that this is going toward perhaps religion. [56:42] And that the enhancement, and let me just read that from the information, victim targeting enhancement, violation of Utah code annotates, annotated 76-3-203.14 sub 2. [56:58] Tyler James Robinson intentionally selected Charlie Kirk because Tyler James Robinson's belief or perception regarding Charlie Kirk's political expression. [57:08] And that was also noted as an enhancement for count two and count seven. [57:20] The court is not going to engage, the court can weigh how this is applied, but it finds it relevant whether how it relates to the enhancement is for the court to weigh as it looks at the bind over decision. [57:38] And it is not engaging in that decision-making today, but finds that it is relevant, it is admissible to the court and is publishable to the gallery as well as to the public. [57:51] And so if the state wishes to publish State's Exhibit 5.1, it may do so at this time. [57:59] Thank you. [58:00] Yes, we do. [58:07] And Kimberly, I don't know if we want to use the same kind of slow scrolling. [58:11] Thank you. [58:12] All right. [59:43] I believe that should be sufficient. [59:48] And Agent Davis, I apologize. [59:51] I'm going to take you very briefly back to State's Exhibit 16.1, which is the text thread between Mr. Robinson and Mr. Twiggs. [1:00:00] Kimberly, if you could turn to page 17. [1:00:17] And because this has already been admitted and, correct me if I'm wrong, published not only to the gallery but to cameras at large, [1:00:27] I'd ask that it be displayed in that fashion again. [1:00:30] All right. [1:00:33] Any input from any other party on that request? [1:00:35] All right. [1:00:36] Thank you. [1:00:37] It may be published. [1:00:38] And the media may pick this up as well. [1:00:43] Agent Davis, if I can direct you to the very last message on that page, starting with if any, if you could read that out loud. [1:00:51] Okay. [1:00:52] This is Tyler. [1:00:53] He says, if any police ask you questions, sorry, let me start over. [1:00:59] If any police ask you questions, ask for a lawyer and stay silent. [1:01:02] My lawyer should be Doug Terry. [1:01:04] I'll see if he can reach out to you and make sure the police follow. [1:01:08] Okay. [1:01:11] Thank you. [1:01:11] That's all I need from that exhibit. [1:01:15] And then finally, Agent Davis, you testified before that you flew down to Washington County Sheriff's office and observed Tyler Robinson there, correct? [1:01:28] Correct. [1:01:28] You got his name there? [1:01:31] Yes. [1:01:31] You stated that you transported or assisted transporting him up to Utah County Jail? [1:01:39] Yes. [1:01:40] And that you were the booking officer? [1:01:41] That's correct. [1:01:43] Do you recognize Tyler Robinson here in the courtroom today? [1:01:46] Yes, I do. [1:01:47] If you could point him out and briefly describe something that he's wearing. [1:01:51] He's an individual seated at the defendant's table in the center chair with a gray suit coat and a green tie. [1:01:59] Your Honor, if record could reflect identification of the defendant? [1:02:04] Counsel? [1:02:04] No, Judge. [1:02:06] All right. [1:02:07] I'll note for the purposes of this hearing only that Agent Davis has identified Mr. Robinson in court. [1:02:14] Thank you. [1:02:14] And Judge, if I can just have a moment. [1:02:16] You may. [1:02:20] Ready to pass the witness. [1:02:21] Thank you. [1:02:22] And I don't know if now would be a good time for lunch. [1:02:24] All right. [1:02:25] We'll go ahead and break right now for lunch for one hour. [1:02:30] Well, one hour and five minutes. [1:02:31] Let's come back at 1.30. [1:02:34] We'll resume. [1:02:36] We'll pick up with defense for cross-examination, if they choose, [1:02:39] for Agent Davis. [1:02:41] Does either party need the benefit of the record before we go on our lunch break? [1:02:46] Not the state. [1:02:48] No cross-examination for Agent Davis. [1:02:52] So I don't want him to wait here if he has other things to do. [1:02:56] Thank you. [1:02:56] Thank you, Mr. Novak. [1:02:57] Thank you. [1:02:58] No cross-examination. [1:02:59] May this witness be excused? [1:03:01] Yes. [1:03:02] All right, Agent Davis, you may step down. [1:03:04] Thank you. [1:03:04] And then we'll resume with the state on their next witness. [1:03:06] Court is now in recess. [1:03:08] All rise.