President Trump Announces Apple and Intel Chip Collaboration — Bloomberg Tech 6/18/2026

[0:05] Bloomberg Tech is live from the heart of Silicon Valley with Ed Ludlow in San Francisco. [0:12] This is Bloomberg Tech. [0:15] Coming up, President Trump posts about a chip agreement between Apple and Intel, [0:20] sending Intel soaring. [0:22] We'll have the details. [0:22] Plus, we speak with the CEO of Anderil after the company wins a production contract [0:27] for autonomous fighters with the U.S. Air Force. [0:30] And SpaceX shares full for a second straight day after a 49% jump, still in high orbit. [0:37] As the company concludes its first full week of trading. [0:42] Thursday, June 18th, Bloomberg Tech. [0:45] Intel is at a record high after the President of the United States posted a very long Truth Social, [0:52] which included a reference to an agreement between Intel and Apple for chip design and chip manufacturing. [1:02] A simple story. [1:03] There is some background to it that Bloomberg News has reported in the past. [1:08] It also talked about NVIDIA, TerraFab, and a lot more. [1:12] But it's Intel where we focus. [1:13] And Bloomberg's Ian King is with us, along with Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Analyst Mandeep Singh. [1:19] And we're going to start with Ian. [1:22] An agreement. [1:23] What do we know? [1:24] What do we not know? [1:26] Well, we've previously reported that Apple was exploring using Intel as a second source for manufacturing some of its chips. [1:34] What the President is saying, and, you know, we have to be careful because not everything he says immediately comes true, [1:41] that this has actually reached a firmer stage. [1:45] And if that's the case, then that's clearly a boost for Intel's efforts to become a manufacturer for other companies. [1:50] Ian, really quickly, you reported with Mark and Ryan in May that Apple was looking at its options. [1:58] Explain the basics of that report. [2:00] That's right. [2:00] Right now, Apple is completely dependent upon TSMC, right, for manufacturing. [2:06] So, obviously, that's a choke point, something that they wish, you know, they would like to have a solution to, have options. [2:12] So, you would look at Samsung and you would look at Intel as potential backups or potential supplemental manufacturers. [2:19] And that's what we understand is going on. [2:21] Apple has always been smart about the supply chain. [2:23] That's the reporting and the details. [2:24] Let's get the analysis. [2:25] Mandeep Singh, who leads our technology research team at Bloomberg Intelligence. [2:30] What are you making of this, right? [2:32] Ian outlined that actually in May there was a sense that Apple was looking at options. [2:36] But you have the President of the United States saying there's an agreement. [2:39] How much can you model for that, the President's statement? [2:45] Look, I mean, there is no doubt that Intel is now well-positioned to be a double-digit revenue growth company, [2:53] given what we have seen so far with the CPU demand that has taken off with agentic AI. [3:00] And now, you know, the fab side of things would get a real kicker if Apple was to use it for manufacturing. [3:08] And, you know, when you have one design win, it follows with, you know, multiple companies that want to use your manufacturing. [3:18] And that's where it could be very exciting if actually Apple ends up ramping up in volume here. [3:26] I know that Apple shares are up a percentage point. [3:29] Tim Cook, the CEO, the outgoing CEO, soon to be executive chairman of Apple, [3:34] gave an interview to Wall Street Journal where he said they're going to have to raise prices because of the commodity environment. [3:39] But what do you interpret here, Mandeep, on the Apple side of this story with Intel, [3:44] their ability to kind of re-industrialize here in America on the chip side? [3:50] I mean, look, right now, when I look at TSMC's capacity, [3:55] NVIDIA has already prepaid, you know, what, $120 billion for TSMC capacity. [4:00] So even an Apple, which used to get preferential treatment at TSMC right now, [4:06] I think they're feeling that NVIDIA probably has a bigger lock-in in terms of TSMC manufacturing capacity. [4:14] And from an Apple standpoint, I think diversification and really appeasing the president here makes a ton of sense. [4:21] So from that perspective, I think TSMC's monopoly is a problem for a lot of, you know, [4:29] their big customers, including Apple. [4:31] And it makes sense that they're looking to diversify here. [4:34] Ian, finally to you, there's kind of two parts to Intel's Foundry story. [4:40] There's the process, the technology process, and then the sort of solidity of whether they have any customers. [4:47] Where are they at with both of those things? [4:48] Right. What they've said is that their process is getting better and better, [4:52] getting closer to the industry standard, which would be TSMC yield being very important there, [4:58] the amount of good chips you make for a production run. [5:00] In terms of customers, they've said, look, we're not going to talk about it. [5:04] We're hopeful. We've got a couple of big irons in the fire that might come to fruition in the second half of this year. [5:10] But we're not going to talk about it. We're going to leave it up to them. [5:12] We're not going to get ahead of ourselves. [5:14] And so on that note, I point out that neither Intel nor Apple have commented so far on the president's post. [5:19] Bloomberg's Ian King and Mandeep Singh of Bloomberg Intelligence, thank you both very much. [5:23] Let's broaden the conversation beyond chips. [5:25] The Nasdaq 100 pushing higher 2% in the session. [5:29] We're kind of trading near those records of recent weeks. [5:32] I would say there's a lot going on in the markets. [5:35] Semiconductors are a big part of the market right now, but the Intel story is a catalyst and driver of that. [5:40] There is the SpaceX part of this market, and then there is the role of the retail investors. [5:45] The AI trade has been expanding. [5:47] Investors are looking across software, infrastructure, the next generation of tech leaders for the market's next growth engine. [5:54] Could those be IPOs? So much to discuss. [5:57] Anka Crawford, Portfolio Manager, Algers, with us. [6:00] You know, I always say this. [6:02] One session a market does not make. [6:04] Really interesting, though, how we're ending this short trading week in the U.S. with so many factors. [6:11] For you right now, what is the main driver of psychology for the technology sector? [6:16] Gosh, you know, I think that what I find is people are finally understanding how significant this AI trade is going to be, [6:24] and that's what's getting reflected in some of the moves that you're seeing in the market. [6:26] You know, the impact of the shortages of the supply chain are also becoming very obvious, [6:34] whether you see what's happening in memory or the optical supply chain. [6:38] And so, you know, I feel like the market is fully understanding the kind of supply chain implications and the demand implications. [6:49] You're going to have a CEO on later who recently commented that token pricing for him went up 2x in over the last, [6:59] it will go up 2x in the next six months. [7:02] Well, that is an indication of supply-demand balance. [7:06] And, you know, clearly we are significantly, we need significantly more tokens, [7:12] and we have significantly more demand for the intelligence than we have supply. [7:16] It's so interesting where, like, the kind of raw data sets or anecdotal data sets that the market's tracking are so different now to what they were. [7:25] I don't know, you tell me, like, as recently as last year or two years ago. [7:29] I want to talk about SpaceX. [7:31] You know, how big a factor has that IPO been for you and your team, and how have you sort of responded to it? [7:37] Well, it's not necessarily a factor, but it's clearly an incredibly significant company that has a very open-ended story alongside with it. [7:48] We've never really seen a business like SpaceX before in our careers. [7:54] I would argue there, you know, humanity hasn't seen a business like SpaceX. [7:59] So, you know, we have found a significant place in our portfolios for SpaceX, in part because we do see incredible appreciation as we look out three and five years. [8:13] Now, the day-to-day trading on it is, you know, who knows? [8:16] There's a lot of things that affect that day-to-day trading, but we are very bullish on its prospects. [8:22] The retail investors played a big role here. [8:25] We spoke to Charles Schwab, CEO, earlier. [8:27] Let's get his take. [8:27] It was a breakthrough event, I think, for the retail investor who has allocated roughly 20% of the deal, which is triple, a typical IPO. [8:36] So, it's great to see retail having a meaningful seat at the table. [8:40] It created tremendous engagement with our clients and broadly with retail clients. [8:45] Demand was off the charts, and that demand continues. [8:48] We've seen in the three days following the IPO, nearly $7 billion of additional orders come from our clients. [8:54] Charles Schwab, CEO, Rick Worcester, is it the retail trader driving trading right now? [9:01] I'm not really sure what's driving it. [9:03] I think that there's a lot of different aspects that drive trading. [9:06] Appreciate the honesty. [9:07] I don't think anyone knows, Anka, what's driving it. [9:10] Well, we shouldn't make it up then. [9:12] And so, I don't know. [9:14] All I can say is that sometimes the market kind of thinks about the next day or the next week. [9:20] And for something like SpaceX, I think what you have to do is look at the long arc of time to understand what they are doing [9:27] and the significant moat that they have created with, you know, Starship and the reusability of Starship when that comes to fruition [9:35] and the different business models that will get unleashed. [9:39] And it is incredibly exciting to see this company now be accessible to not only retail, but also institutional investors like us. [9:49] Anka, how do you assess the role the underwriters played in it in getting the story of the prospectus across to the valuation and economics of this company? [10:00] I think they did a fantastic job. [10:02] I don't think it could have gone any better. [10:04] And you look at just how, you know, they made the management available. [10:10] There were several different, you know, kind of knowledge zooms that investors could get on and to understand the story more completely. [10:23] They priced it correctly so that, you know, they were leaving some economics on the table for what its true value will be. [10:31] So I actually think they did the most beautiful job on this IPO. [10:36] And it was a tricky one because of the valuation, kind of the perception. [10:43] There was a very divided, I think, opinion on SpaceX. [10:47] There's some that love it, some that hate it. [10:50] Retail was a bit skittish, it felt like to me, at least through the conversations that I had. [10:55] But so I think they actually, the underwriters did a beautiful job on this. [10:59] And I hope they repeat it with the upcoming IPOs of OpenAI and Anthropic. [11:04] Really appreciate it. [11:06] And we're going to have that conversation about Anthropic and OpenAI later in the program. [11:09] Anka Crawford of Alger, back on Bloomberg Tech. [11:11] Thank you very much. [11:12] Big news, crossing the Bloomberg terminal. [11:14] Amazon is in talks to sell its custom-made AI chips for use in other companies' data centers, trying to cut into NVIDIA's dominance. [11:23] This is based on an interview in Paris with Amazon's AI chief, who said the company has begun discussions with potential customers, but declined to name them. [11:33] We're talking about Peter DeSantis here. [11:34] He said he views AI infrastructure as rapidly evolving and the stock hitting session highs on that Bloomberg report. [11:42] Coming up, Anderil just won a production contract for autonomous fighters with the U.S. Air Force. [11:47] As the Pentagon pushes for a fleet of up to 1,000 autonomous combat jets, we're going to be speaking with Anderil's CEO, Brian Shipp. [11:55] That's next. [11:57] This is Bloomberg Tech. [12:06] Anderil is having a major week. [12:09] The defense tech startup just won a production contract for autonomous fighters with the U.S. Air Force, secured a key role in the race to provide software for those aircraft, [12:18] and is moving towards scaled manufacturing, as the Pentagon pushes for a fleet of up to 1,000 autonomous combat jets. [12:26] All of that comes as defense stocks and military technology remain in focus amid the fallout from the U.S.-Iran conflict. [12:33] And what is a fragile new diplomatic agreement? [12:38] Joining us now live on Bloomberg Tech, Anderil's CEO, Brian Shipp. [12:42] You know, I think Anderil's in this place in its evolution, a life cycle, where you're trying to manage winning new contracts [12:49] and put out new technology and ramp what's already out there. [12:53] Just talk about that trio of news you put out and how you pulled it off. [12:59] Yeah. [12:59] So, you know, we're extremely excited to be awarded this production contract for the, you know, Air Force loyal wingman fighter jet. [13:07] And, you know, this is really about taking it from prototype technology, which we've been validating. [13:13] We've been flying multiple times a day into now an operational capability. [13:18] So this is both the hardware side, where we've already started to produce these out of our facility in Ohio, our Arsenal 1 facility. [13:25] And we are now confirmed to move this into a production aircraft, right? [13:30] So really start to ramp this next year. [13:32] So it's super exciting. [13:33] But that challenge is real, right? [13:35] And we know the defense industry has had struggles ramping production to the demand we're seeing around the world. [13:42] But this is something we've systematically invested in. [13:45] And everything we're showing is that we're hitting every ramp that we've promised to hit. [13:49] There's like the established systems fury. [13:53] And there is the next phase of product and contract. [13:57] How difficult a decision is it to assign resource to know where to put teams and capital right now? [14:06] You know, we're seeing demand through the roof. [14:08] Across the board, right? [14:10] And this is everything from weapons programs, aircraft programs, you name it. [14:15] We're seeing just a massively increased demand across the board. [14:19] But we've been able to scale incredibly well, right? [14:22] We've doubled headcount every year. [14:24] You know, we are continuing to be able to resource these successfully, right? [14:28] And I think we're just an incredibly attractive place to work. [14:31] So for us, the challenge isn't really, you know, where do we put resources? [14:34] It's just, you know, running through it as fast as we can, which we've demonstrated the ability to do year over year for, you know, the past near decade now. [14:42] So that part we're not as concerned with. [14:44] But, you know, I think a huge credit to the Air Force on this. [14:48] You know, they have decided to move out in, I think, the fastest fighter jet programs in the 1950s. [14:53] Like, this is just an immensely fast pace. [14:56] And I think it shows that the government can move when it wants to and that industry can respond to that pace. [15:02] And it's just an incredibly exciting time to be able to deliver these capabilities. [15:07] How do wins like this translate to the revenue run rate? [15:11] You know, they're big announcements, big deals. [15:13] But for the financials of this company, it's immediate or it's a distant opportunity? [15:19] These types of programs give, you know, just this amazing base of growth for the next, you know, five years, right? [15:26] And so this is about how do we lock in that growth and success we've seen to date into something that's going to be producing and delivering for the next decade? [15:36] And that's something that I think really, you know, when we look at the financials for the out years, [15:42] when we stack in all the types of big programs that we're working on now, [15:46] it more or less gives us an extremely solid base that we're going to continue to grow on and compound on in the future. [15:53] You know, Brian, I appreciate this is about autonomous fighters. [15:58] Every time you come on the program, I get a flood of requests to ask you about subterranean. [16:04] And actually, I get the sense that you don't, it's not even that exciting to you guys. [16:08] So what are the next domains, the next big bets that you probably can't talk as much about, [16:13] but everyone wants me to ask you about? [16:15] Yeah, we're doing, you know, an immense amount of work in space. [16:19] You know, there's a huge number of areas where, you know, this is becoming the next generation warfighting domain. [16:26] You know, I think the Space Force is talking a lot more about the adversarial activities that Russia and China are doing regularly. [16:32] You know, they are constantly maneuvering around space, threatening the U.S.'s and allies' satellites. [16:37] You know, I think there was an open source report of Russia maneuvering against a satellite that's a commercial satellite that's used to provide intelligence to the Ukrainians. [16:46] So this is an area that's, you know, an active growth area that is incredibly important for the U.S. to have leadership in [16:52] and deter the adversarial activities that, you know, our adversaries are doing every day. [16:57] The other area we're seeing an immense amount of growth in is on the weapons side. [17:02] You know, you can read all the reports. [17:05] Everyone is well aware now of what's been sort of a poorly kept secret for a long time, which is the U.S. has amazing weapons, right? [17:12] Like that's been obviously true. [17:14] But the inability to produce these at scale to supply our allies, the huge delays that exist in delivering these is a major strategic issue for the U.S. and our allies. [17:23] And so that is translated, you know, out of the conflict in Iran into, you know, an immense amount of demand to bring, build up next generation weapons capabilities that can be produced at scale. [17:34] So looking at the Iran conflict, you know, what is the lesson that you think is learned here for the Pentagon on these types of technologies and war preparedness? [17:47] Yeah. So I think, you know, there's a lot of different lessons you can take away. [17:51] But one of the biggest ones was really, you know, when you look at the number of strikes, the number of munitions consumed in the first 30 days of the conflict, [17:59] it was something around 10 times the amount we consumed in the entirety of the Gulf War. [18:04] Right. And we're shooting, you know, nearly a decade of tomahawk production in a week. [18:10] Like these are really serious quantities of munitions consumed in these modern conflicts. [18:15] And it parallels what, you know, has been seen in every conflict that's played out in the last several years. [18:19] You know, particularly as you look at Ukraine, where the amount of munitions consumed is staggering. [18:24] So I think this question of how do you actually get the inventory, the stockpiles and have the producibility that you need, [18:32] that becomes one of the critical questions. [18:35] And, you know, the U.S., again, it's amazing weapons. [18:37] But for the vast majority of scenarios, you can deal with things that are sort of lower price and more fit for purpose. [18:45] And the types of, you know, uses you're realistically going to have and what you need to convey to your adversaries, [18:51] you have the resiliency to do. [18:53] And so that is probably the biggest shift I've seen out of this conflict, [18:57] which is really looking at and accelerating how to get to more producible capabilities quickly. [19:04] And, you know, we've got, you know, maybe a half dozen or more different programs that have initiated out of that. [19:12] Brian, we just have 30 seconds. [19:14] You've said Arsenal 2 could be built outside of the United States. [19:18] Big market for you is Australia. [19:21] Taiwan is a big factor in Andrew's guiding mission. [19:25] Are those realistic locations? [19:28] Yeah, I mean, we have, I think the reality in the world is that our allies are going to look to have more control [19:36] over their production and supply of weapons. [19:38] I think that's correct. [19:39] And I think production capacity for the allied nations is a contribution in and of itself. [19:44] And so I think for the administration, they want the allies to be prepared to contribute. [19:48] So the idea that they are also producing and contributing to the allied stockpiles is hugely advantageous. [19:56] And I think that's been a very consistent message from the administration. [19:58] We've seen immense support for that. [20:00] You know, where we put it exactly, you know, we have a factory up and running in Sydney, Australia, making Ghost Shark. [20:05] And then we're constantly evaluating the right way to help any given country on what they need, [20:11] how they want us to work with their local partners and industry. [20:14] And so it's a very nuanced process. [20:17] But the reality is we think of allied production as a critical dimension of providing that deterrence that we're here to do. [20:24] And your CEO, Brian Shim, thank you very much, Indy. [20:27] Now, coming up, Microsoft's making big money from Chinese tech companies like ByteDance. [20:32] We'll tell you how next. [20:33] This is Bloomberg Tech. [20:34] Microsoft is cashing in on China. [20:44] Unlike its competitors, the AI cloud maker is selling its Azure cloud models to Chinese tech companies, [20:50] including TikTok parent ByteDance, which is on track to spend a billion as Microsoft's top client. [20:56] Blumos Matt Day has more. [20:58] So there's the idea that this is atypical, right, doing business in China full stop. [21:01] But in the AI domain, what are the models that Microsoft is able to sell into that market? [21:06] So Microsoft, because of its longstanding partnership with OpenAI, has some unique ability to sell products [21:13] and determine the terms under which it sells products. [21:15] We understand there's been some friction between Microsoft and OpenAI over Microsoft sales in China, [21:19] but they can list some of their biggest models. [21:22] Is this big business for Microsoft, Matt? [21:24] Like we said a billion dollars potentially, but where does that stack up against the rest of its revenues? [21:31] A big number, but not hugely significant to Microsoft at a global scale. [21:34] You know, they said China accounts for something like a percent and a half of their revenue. [21:37] So not super significant, but, you know, the company is internally talking about, you know, [21:41] Microsoft being the only place where you can get top model companies on the U.S. West Coast [21:46] and the Chinese East Coast. [21:47] So they think it's a big deal internally. [21:50] So this is according to our reporting and sourcing. [21:52] Other Chinese tech companies are in the mix here. [21:55] But what have the companies said about it officially? [21:58] So they haven't said much. [21:59] They have said all these companies develop their own models. [22:02] I think the lesson here is, you know, companies tend to use just about everything folks are developing [22:06] their own models if they have the scale and also accessing, you know, whatever they can. [22:09] And in the case of some of Microsoft's customers, you know, in China, they're tapping into [22:13] a model served from Singapore or other cloud regions. [22:17] Bloomberg's Matt Day. [22:18] Very important report. [22:19] Thank you very much. [22:20] Now coming up on the show, Matthew Witteiler, head of late stage growth at Wellington Management, [22:24] joins us to discuss the year of the tech IPO. [22:28] Let's head to New York City. [22:30] Live pictures of the New York Knicks ticker tape parade underway in New York. [22:37] Bloomberg Tech executive producer Jackie Lopez has had the weeks of her life. [22:42] Congratulations, New York. [22:43] There's your team. [22:44] This is Bloomberg Tech. [22:56] Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. [22:57] The big technology story out there today is Intel and Apple. [23:01] The president of the United States saying on Truth Social, there's an agreement between [23:05] the two for Apple to work with Intel on domestic chip manufacturing here in the U.S. [23:12] Neither company has commented that Intel shares trading now at a fresh record high. [23:16] Apple has actually paid most of its advance. [23:19] It's up four tenths of a percent, have been up one and a half percent. [23:22] Would also note that Apple's current CEO, soon to be executive chair, Tim Cook, gave an interview [23:28] to the Wall Street Journal last night saying that Apple will have to raise prices because [23:32] of where commodities memory is at right now. [23:34] Maybe that's a factor. [23:36] Not clear. [23:37] We'll continue tracking the stories. [23:39] There's a bigger story in technology and markets. [23:41] For years, one of the most reliable fuels for the massive big tech rally was steady share [23:46] buybacks. [23:48] The AI race is proving so expensive that repurchase programs are kind of evaporating. [23:53] Bloomberg's Michael Reign joins us from New York to explain this shift. [23:57] And like there's two parts of it. [23:58] It's like CapEx is, you know, is expensive, impacts the share buyback program. [24:03] But also like loads of companies are issuing new equity, new stock. [24:07] Explain it all. [24:08] Yeah. [24:09] And it's really just an amazing paradigm shift for these stocks. [24:13] You know, when you think about it, Alphabet, Google alone over the previous five years had [24:19] bought back something like $280 billion in their own stock. [24:24] Now they're going the opposite direction, planning to sell about $85 billion worth of shares to [24:30] help fund this CapEx. [24:32] And I really, you know, it is fascinating because these buybacks were really a driver of the [24:37] market for a long time. [24:39] But it really kind of exposes the notion that, yes, shareholders, investors are happy when [24:44] they hear about buybacks. [24:45] They're happy to have a new buyer of the stock and shrink that share count and boost EPS. [24:50] But at the same time, it really does signal that maybe these companies didn't have something [24:54] better to spend this money on. [24:56] Now they do as far as building out all this CapEx, spending all this CapEx to build out [25:01] the data centers. [25:02] And investors, you know, for now are happy that there's a better plan for all this cash [25:07] that they generate. [25:08] You know, time will tell if that stands the test of time. [25:11] And these investments prove to be positive returns on investments. [25:15] But for now, you know, the market's happy with it. [25:18] Obviously, the chipmaker stocks are thrilled about it. [25:21] And we're really just, you know, in awe of a major paradigm shift in how these companies [25:26] manage their stock float. [25:29] Bluebird's Michael Reagan. [25:30] Thank you very much indeed. [25:31] Following the blockbuster public debut of SpaceX, investors are welcoming a massive distribution [25:37] event that is pumping fresh liquidity back into private markets like the VCs needed that [25:44] big IPO. [25:44] It comes at a critical inflection point as a historic wave of multi-billion dollar AI model [25:51] companies prepare potentially to cross that IPO threshold. [25:54] Joining us now is Matt Whitiler, head of late stage growth at Wellington Management. [25:59] What a time to be you and on your desk. [26:04] Should we start with SpaceX? [26:08] You know, to so many participants in this market, it presages this great IPO year. [26:15] Is that what you expect? [26:17] I think that's exactly right. [26:18] If you rewind the clock and you look back to just March of this year when I was last here [26:23] with you, we were talking about the fact that the first of the big ones to go out will [26:28] be SpaceX and that this year's activity will be driven by the mega cap private companies [26:33] that are now going public. [26:35] And we had that in SpaceX. [26:37] And again, if you rewind the clock and we think about the conversation you and I had back in [26:41] March, we were talking about the fact that we believed, I believe that SpaceX would perform [26:45] well. [26:45] And I think we're sitting here today, not quite a week into their trading, saying, oh, SpaceX [26:49] is performing as expected. [26:53] Mr. Reagan just raised some really interesting points, which is like it's not just IPOs. [26:57] Because generally, this market could be flooded with equity. [27:00] It's not universal that it's a good time to go public. [27:03] I spoke to Ali Godzi, the Databricks CEO, very recently. [27:07] Here's his take. [27:08] Three mega IPOs that have been rumored. [27:10] One of them happened. [27:12] You know, so letting those kind of go through the system and see how that sort of plays out [27:16] and things stabilize a little bit. [27:18] I stand by what I said. [27:19] I think for most other companies, you know, it's probably best to wait it out. [27:22] You know, I think Wellington's on the cap table of Databricks, right? [27:27] But that's one view, right? [27:30] There's so much will happen that Databricks might not for that reason. [27:34] Yeah, there's a lot in the pipe. [27:36] There's a lot coming down. [27:37] But I think what the precipice tipping point will be for the next batch of companies will [27:43] be how these first three, the three mega ones that we talk about, how they perform. [27:47] And I believe the subsequent two that are coming will likely perform very similar to SpaceX, [27:53] which is with a lot of enthusiasm, not just from retail investors, but also from institutional [27:58] investors. [27:59] And I think that is the setup that the next batch of companies, maybe a Databricks as [28:04] an example, would be looking for before they decide to come to the market. [28:08] Just purely as case studies, you know, if Anthropic and OpenAI go next, that what they've [28:15] said in their limited ability to speak publicly is an IPO is the only mechanism to raise capital [28:19] at the levels they need. [28:21] Find that really confusing because, you know, they both did such ginormous private rounds [28:27] so recently. [28:28] The private market seems very willing to support that growth. [28:32] The private market is. [28:33] There's just not sufficient capital to support the capital intensity, as we were just hearing [28:38] about, of these model companies in perpetuity. [28:40] And the private markets do not offer enough liquidity for the investors in these businesses [28:45] to ultimately get liquid without ultimately going public. [28:49] And to put that in kind of understandable terms, the private market transacts in a full [28:55] year what the public market transacts in a week. [29:00] And so the volume of liquidity available to public market companies is dramatically different [29:05] to what's available on the private side. [29:07] How much are private market investors in these leading frontier labs now needing to model [29:15] for and take into account political risks? [29:18] I'm talking, of course, about the administration's intervention in certain use of technology. [29:23] But it's not just the U.S., right? [29:25] We're talking about jurisdictions like the EU. [29:27] I think that it is a factor that people are now starting to incorporate in their thinking [29:32] for how some of these technologies will evolve. [29:34] And I think it's a big open question mark as to what the future of the model builders, [29:39] as an example, looks like with respect to regulatory action. [29:43] But what I do feel confident is, I do feel confident that it is in everybody's interest, [29:48] the model builders themselves, as well as the governments, to support and ultimately enable [29:53] this. [29:53] Because if we, if the United States or China or the governmental agencies are not promoting [29:58] this, we will be left behind and we will give up the advantages that are accruing [30:03] to the top builders today. [30:05] So I think it will resolve. [30:06] It's a question of how it resolves. [30:09] Matt, I'd really appreciate your insight here. [30:11] Even if the answer is no, how closely did you read the SpaceX prospectus, the story they [30:18] were trying to tell, and then extrapolate out to how that might apply to everyone else? [30:23] Open AI, Anthropic Databricks. [30:25] You know, it was so interesting to see their TAM numbers and how they see the world in the [30:29] very distant future. [30:30] I would say that SpaceX is unique and SpaceX is unique because Elon Musk is unique. [30:38] And so when I think about the SpaceX story and I think about the market cap that SpaceX [30:42] is currently trading at, I think people are willing to, for Elon, say, I believe in your [30:48] vision of the future and I believe you, Elon, can deliver on that vision. [30:52] And I would say that is a relatively unique place in the market. [30:55] There are not many other entrepreneurs or CEOs I can think of who could go out and tell [31:00] a story that's five, ten years out in the future and get credit for that story today. [31:05] So I think when you think about the model builders going out as the next generation or [31:10] the next IPO candidates, I think those companies will more likely trade on fundamentals than [31:15] maybe where SpaceX is trading today, which is, again, a little bit of the Elon magic dust [31:20] around ability to convince the world that he will be the person who gets us into the future. [31:26] Let's talk about that in the future then when you come back. [31:29] Trading on the numbers, not the names, if those AI companies go public. [31:34] Matt Withheiler, head of late stage growth at Wellington, thank you so much. [31:37] Now coming up, as the AI race shifts from model to infrastructure, Rumble's betting big on [31:44] compute, Rumble. [31:45] Yes, that's right. [31:46] CEO Chris Bavosky joins us next. [31:49] This is Bloomberg Tech. [31:50] This is Bloomberg Tech. [32:01] And you're looking at a live shot of the printable room. [32:03] Check out the Bloomberg Tech podcast. [32:05] You can find it on the terminal as well as online on Apple, Spotify and iHeart. [32:10] This is Bloomberg. [32:11] The story is still here. [32:17] The AI boom is fueling an intense race for the infrastructure behind it. [32:22] Rumble, best known as a video sharing and cloud services platform, is looking to capitalize [32:27] on that trend through its acquisition of Northern Data and the launch of Quake AI, a new platform [32:33] combining cloud, compute and AI infrastructure. [32:36] Joining us now is Rumble CEO Chris Bavosky. [32:40] There is a lot here. [32:41] Let's unpack it all. [32:42] So the company is going to change its legal name to Rum Group. [32:46] This is based on the close of the acquisition of Northern Data. [32:50] Let's go back to the genesis of the idea. [32:52] Like why you did this? [32:54] What the opportunity was? [32:55] Well, in 2013, but it was in 2021 where we took on our first investment. [33:03] And that was, I guess, around March, April of 2021. [33:07] And the idea was that we had to build our own infrastructure. [33:11] And we did that over the last four to five years. [33:15] We built our entire infrastructure for Rumble to sit on. [33:18] And with all that being said, we have all this excess capacity for the video platform. [33:24] So it was actually in 2021 when we went public as a SPAC under ticker RUM that we said that we had three core pillars to the business. [33:34] One was going to be the advertising platform, one was going to be the video platform, and one was going to be infrastructure as a service. [33:41] And it is now at this point in time where we launched Rumble Cloud back in 2024. [33:47] Now with the acquisition of Northern Data, we really kind of put a jetpack on that infrastructure as a service business. [33:53] And we're ready to take on the world on cloud with Quake AI. [33:59] So that's kind of been the genesis of what we've done. [34:02] It's going to be our largest business unit going forward, the cloud side. [34:07] So we're really excited to really step on the gas on the AI compute as a service and all the other services that we offer. [34:14] Can we expand on that a little bit? [34:16] So there's two core businesses, right? [34:17] The video platform that we know is Rumble and then Quake AI, the infrastructure business. [34:21] And you just said that that will be the larger part. [34:24] How has the kind of growth trajectory changed here? [34:27] Why is it that it is the bigger part? [34:29] And what does the outlook look like? [34:32] Yeah. [34:32] So actually, Northern Data just released a couple of days ago that they increased their outlook to 170 to 190 million euros for the full year this year. [34:43] So that's increased. [34:45] But when you add on top the video platform, you add on top the deal that we just announced a couple of weeks ago with Together AI, and then you add on top the increased outlook with Northern Data, it starts to look fundamentally much different than it looked in the last couple of years. [35:04] Mind you, we have grown quite a bit. [35:06] It was in 2021 and 2022, we were like sub 10 million of revenue. [35:13] So we posted over 100 million in the last year. [35:18] And now when you add all these assets together and you add everything that we've put together, it's going to be fundamentally a much different business going forward here in 26 and the rest of 26 and 27 and beyond. [35:28] You said in the statement that you'll give further details about products and then also how you brand this. [35:35] But what can you say about like different business lines? [35:39] I get Quake AI's infrastructure, but what areas are going to be new for you? [35:43] What is it that you're going to be able to sell other than the big cluster of H200s that you've got? [35:48] Yeah, so we have that big cluster. [35:51] But what's really exciting for me is the unmonetized properties that we have. [35:56] We have 180 megawatts just outside of Atlanta, Georgia, that is completely unmonetized right now. [36:03] We have over 200 megawatts of unmonetized assets that we're looking to monetize as fast as possible. [36:10] So our first goal is to get these things monetized. [36:12] And as you know, like the latest generation chips out there, you're seeing companies make roughly 10 million annually on a megawatt. [36:23] So the fact that we have over 200 megawatts of unmonetized assets, that's something that we want to jump all over as fast as possible and get those monetized in 27 and 28. [36:36] Just note that the stocks kind of pushed a little higher, a gain of about 4% during the course of our conversation. [36:41] Chris Pawlowski of Rumble, really appreciate you being on the show. [36:44] Thank you so much. [36:45] A year ago, President Trump's eldest son stood in Trump Tower and introduced the T1, a gold-colored, U.S.-made smartphone from Trump Mobile. [36:56] The device is finally out and maybe not living up to all its promises. [37:01] Bloomberg's Dana Wallman, our consumer tech editor, joins us. [37:04] And the team, as we can see in the video, has had its hands on the T1. [37:09] The main takeaways, please. [37:10] Yes, so the phone is out. [37:14] It's real, does not quite live up to the pitch. [37:17] For what it's worth, not exactly gold, mustard-colored, and we think really not made in the U.S. [37:24] Other sites have done teardowns of the device, and it appears to be an exact match for an HTC device. [37:29] That's the Taiwanese brand. [37:31] A certain model that came out about two years ago. [37:34] And it's a serviceable phone. [37:35] It's a mid-priced, mid-range Android phone. [37:40] And in some ways, the specs are actually quite decent. [37:42] In some ways, not. [37:43] The camera performance, in particular, lags. [37:47] But there are better options at this price range. [37:50] And worth noting that the software support is one of the biggest just areas of uncertainty. [37:55] It ships with Android 15. [37:57] And most Android phone makers are already on Android 16. [38:00] This week, Android 17 started rolling out to certain devices. [38:04] So that's actually one of the biggest points in the review, is if you're going to just now buy a new device that you might be holding in your hands using for a few years, [38:12] don't you want the security of the assurance of, A, having the most recent up-to-date software and knowing that it will continuously be updated while you own the device? [38:24] Bloomberg's tech editor, Dana Wallman, thank you so much. [38:27] Sticking with phones, Apple is preparing a second-generation iPhone Air set to debut next spring. [38:34] Sources say the prototype has a second rear camera, and the company's working to improve the battery life. [38:40] The new Air will run on a version of the A20 Pro processor that's the same chip coming to this fool's iPhones. [38:49] Coming up, toys, take on technology, and the summer box office. [38:54] We'll talk about what people are saying, what people are watching, what people are playing, and what people are cheering. [39:00] Yes, that is Woody. [39:02] And that's next. [39:03] This is Bloomberg Tech. [39:04] Shares of Take-Two pushing a lot higher, trading at their highest level in about a month, a gain of 5% on the day. [39:17] The parent company of Rockstar Games announced it would begin taking pre-orders for Grand Theft Auto 6 next week. [39:26] The highly anticipated game has already been pushed back twice, causing hits to the company's stock price. [39:32] The pre-order date and the release of the final cover art suggest it won't face another delay. [39:38] I don't want to jinx it. [39:39] That's the read. [39:41] The game is scheduled to launch this November. [39:45] Sticking with entertainment, let's take a look at today's big number. [39:48] Over $160 million. [39:50] That's the amount Toy Story 5 is expected to bring in at the box office this weekend. [39:56] The new installment is tracking to have the best debut of the Pixar franchise, and it's not the only blockbuster expected to pull audiences to cinema this weekend. [40:05] Let's bring in Bloomberg's Felix Gillette on the Screen Time team. [40:08] Toy Story 5, what do we need to know? [40:11] Jesse's origin story. [40:13] We've already got Lightyear, and, you know, it's basically more fun. [40:19] It's part of this packed schedule for the summer. [40:21] I think if you're a theater owner, you're finally breathing the sign of relief. [40:25] It's probably the best summer lineup that Hollywood has rolled out since pre-pandemic days, and Toy Story is a big part of it. [40:32] I watched The Mandalorian two days ago with my wife, and we were the two of only three people in that room. [40:39] So I get the box office weekend. [40:42] What else is on deck apart from Toy Story? [40:44] And do you need to watch Toy Story 1 through 4 first? [40:47] You should, just for the fun of it. [40:49] Okay, but you don't have to. [40:50] What else do we have? [40:51] I mean, there's a new Spider-Man movie, the new Minions movie, new Christopher Nolan movie, Odyssey's coming out, Moana, live action, you know, Supergirl. [41:03] There's really a packed lineup. [41:05] And in addition to all the big studios, you're also getting a lot of help this year from some of the smaller players, A24 with back rooms, you know, [41:13] some of these YouTube creators that are coming out with these low-budget horror movies that are doing terrifically, and, you know, [41:20] even Amazon chipping in with Project Hail Mary, all of it's adding up to a very strong summer lineup. [41:27] Okay, Bloomberg's Felix Gillette, thank you so much. [41:29] Now, before we go, the New York Knicks ticker tape parade is underway. [41:33] Let's go over to City Hall Plaza in New York, where Bloomberg's Randall Williams is standing by. [41:38] Tell the Bloomberg Tech audience absolutely everything that is going on that they need to know and what the vibe is right now in New York City. [41:51] This, Ed, is a basketball party unlike anything I've ever seen. [41:56] New York City's been waiting 53 years to party like they're partying right now, all the way up down the street, all the way here to City Hall. [42:03] And so when you think about what the Knicks mean to this culture, you think about Rucker Park, you think about Dykeman, [42:10] these street courts that have birthed so many street stars in basketball, and now you think about the Knicks today, [42:16] Jalen Brunson, Carl Anthony Towns, Jose Alvarado, New Jersey and New York hometown kids, there is not a story you could write better. [42:24] And for what it means for the NBA, the NBA has been taking a beating in previous years in terms of the conversations about TV ratings. [42:30] Everyone's been saying, oh, you know, the league is down, the league is down. [42:33] Well, the Knicks played the San Antonio Spurs, they beat them in five, and the ratings were up. [42:37] So they were up so high that they were on par with some of Michael Jordan's numbers in terms of, excuse me, [42:44] not quite as high as Michael Jordan's numbers, just right below it. [42:47] And so when you think about that for the NBA, the NBA is elated. [42:50] Jalen Brunson is elated. [42:51] They're going to be here right behind me at City Hall giving all their speeches. [42:55] And that's going to be a wrap on the NBA season. [42:56] Next week will be the NBA draft, and we'll go into the summer league. [43:00] But the NBA is thrilled. [43:01] The New York Knicks are thrilled. [43:03] And, of course, New York City basketball fans are having the time of their life. [43:08] Bloomberg's Randall Williams live outside New York City Hall. [43:12] Bloomberg Tech audience says, why are you covering basketball? [43:14] I remember 2018 and 2022 when the Warriors won and the tech sector in Bay Area going wild. [43:20] So New York City would do that for you as well. [43:22] That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Tech. [43:25] More live pictures. [43:26] New York City Knicks parade. [43:29] Our top stories in the markets. [43:30] Intel is up trading at a record high because the President of the United States said on True Social that it has an agreement with Apple to bring chip manufacturing for the iPhone maker back to the United States. [43:42] SpaceX down 8%, $177 a share. [43:45] But remember, this is only the fifth day of trading since the Blockbuster IPO that priced at $135 a share. [43:52] And its valuation is still out of this world. [43:57] This is a story that won't go away, but we are a long way from the lock-up period fully expiring. [44:02] So we're going to track the mechanics of it. [44:04] Remember, it's a short trading week in the United States. [44:08] Friday is a holiday for some and many. [44:11] So recap today's show on the podcast. [44:13] You know exactly where to find it. [44:14] On the Bloomberg platforms, the terminal and online, Apple, Spotify, iHeart. [44:19] What a week. [44:21] This is Bloomberg Tech.