Political roundtable: Why Pam Bondi's Epstein testimony is raising questions

[0:00] Politics is dominating the national conversation right now with the midterms just six months away and the economy impacting Americans everywhere. [0:08] So here at Scripps News, we want to cut through all those political talking points, if you will, and have real straightforward conversations. [0:17] We're going to ask the important questions. We're going to pull back the curtain and focus on really what's actually on everybody's minds every day. [0:25] So we're going to take a few minutes to talk about the issues shaping our world from Capitol Hill to our communities. [0:31] And with that, we turn to today's topic, the fallout over the Epstein files. [0:35] It's a story that has been a consistent through lines through the President Trump's second term in office. [0:41] It's dominated the American psyche. [0:44] At one point, political momentum over the Epstein files seemed to propel meaningful change. [0:49] And I say at one point, top officials in the U.K., including the former Prince Andrew, were ousted from their offices and titles. [0:57] But now months after the initial release of these files, progress seems to have halted. [1:03] Key congressional players have been voted out or excommunicated from party politics, leaving all of us to wonder what happens next. [1:12] So let's discuss. [1:13] Here now is Scripps News Political Director Andrew Rafferty and National Correspondent Alex Miller. [1:19] And Alex, I need to ask you, you have been covering this story from the very beginning, since day one. [1:26] Today, Pam Bondi meeting behind closed doors, not under oath, not under oath. [1:32] So why the secrecy? [1:34] I mean, this is far from the transparency we were all promised and the law that President Trump signed. [1:41] Well, she's meeting behind closed doors because that's part of the negotiation that she did with the Republicans on the committee. [1:47] They're the ones who are in charge of what exactly the format will look like, whether it's taped, whether a transcript is released. [1:54] All of that is part of a negotiation that happens. [1:57] As you mentioned, she is not under oath there. [2:00] So it is not technically a deposition binding by law. [2:04] There are some ramifications, of course, if she does lie, if she does not tell the truth. [2:10] But, again, this is very much behind closed doors, which we did see with Hillary Clinton and former President Bill Clinton. [2:19] But, again, they asked for their depositions to be videotaped so that it could be shown to the public. [2:26] I think there was a lot of controversy about them coming before the committee, and so they wanted to have that transparency. [2:32] Pam Bondi did not want to come back. [2:34] She was there in February. [2:35] I covered the Hill for many years. [2:38] It was an incredibly hostile setting, not only from members of Congress, but from her as well. [2:43] She had this burn book there with information on Democrats. [2:47] It was really a difficult setting to watch. [2:50] And from the survivors that I've spoken to who were there, they had a very difficult time there. [2:55] And so she was supposed to come back in April, but she got fired about two weeks before, and so she negotiated to have this delayed a bit. [3:01] Let me just follow up with that, Alex, because why is she not want to be there? [3:06] It's not like, you know, I understand Clinton's people who are mentioned in the files for whatever reason might be a little skittish on getting anything on camera, on the record. [3:14] But she was the attorney general. [3:17] What does she have to lose? [3:20] Well, look, she has been very loyal to the president, as you could hear through her testimony back in February. [3:25] She was very defensive, not only of the president, but of her own department's handling of it. [3:30] We were able to see a little bit of her opening statement today, and you could see there she is distancing herself a bit from the way that all of this was handled. [3:39] She's defending that there was a lot of work to be done, redactions to be made, but she acknowledges that there was a lot of mistakes made in the sense that there were missing redactions where we saw survivors' names, things of that nature. [3:52] She kind of passed the buck a little bit to her deputy, the now acting attorney general, Todd Blanche, on that one. [3:58] I mean, to this day, you are still able to see survivors' names and their faces. [4:02] I'm working on another piece, and I was looking for some information pertinent to that piece, and there's one image of survivors that has been completely redacted. [4:12] It's survivors sitting around a table. [4:15] Their faces are missing, and then a couple clicks down, I found the exact same photo, and those survivors' faces are there. [4:22] So there's still a lot to be answered for in terms of how these were disseminated, why we still don't have half of the files, and I think, you know, she's no longer in this position, so it's a lot to answer for there. [4:31] Hey, Raph, let me ask you about the danger zone here, because we just saw Thomas Massey lose his seat. [4:36] President Trump campaigned against him, supported his opponent in the primary. [4:40] Same thing with Bill Cassidy, John Cornyn just recently this week. [4:44] The question that comes to mind is, why would they then not perhaps leave scorched earth? [4:51] I mean, we're hearing about these YOLO Republicans, you only live once, who are going to openly oppose President Trump if they feel that that's necessary. [5:00] So what's to keep somebody like Thomas Massey, who's been pushing for the release of all the Epstein files, from not naming everybody on the House floor, [5:08] not reading redacted information, because he can't be convicted for that? [5:14] Sure, and, you know, it's interesting. [5:16] He gave an interview after he lost his primary, where he said he was open to doing just that. [5:22] It's something called the Speech and Debate Clause, and it applies to the Epstein victims, [5:26] it applies to anything that is said on the House floor. [5:29] As a member of the House of Representatives, he can't be prosecuted. [5:33] And we know that Thomas Massey in the past has named some names he has read in these documents. [5:38] The documents that the public widely has not seen, and he has threatened to continue to do that. [5:45] You know, the one thing he's also been very clear about is the Epstein Transparency Act. [5:50] It goes beyond just this Congress and just beyond this presidency. [5:53] So this is an issue that is obviously very close to him. [5:58] It ultimately cost him, in large part, his seat in Kentucky. [6:02] And it seems like he might not be done with politics. [6:06] But before he leaves Congress, he's got about seven months left to continue to be part of, [6:13] yeah, you've called it the YOLO Conference. [6:15] I guess he would be an honorary member of the House of Representatives there. [6:18] But we have seen a number of senators who now really the floodgates are open. [6:24] And it's not just on Epstein. [6:25] It is on a number of politically unpopular things that we've seen this president do [6:31] that could put Republicans as a party in a bad position going into November, Holly. [6:36] Rep, could it help him politically? [6:38] Because let's be honest, what we just saw in Texas, [6:41] John Cornyn had big money behind him. [6:44] And really, his opponent did not. [6:47] I mean, look what happened. [6:49] He was the influencers, the podcasters, the single donors. [6:53] And has it been that? [6:54] I mean, it seems that a lot of members of Congress are a little afraid of stepping out of line [7:00] because they're going to lose the big money that could help him get elected. [7:03] But now this seems to be turned on its head. [7:05] So maybe this could help Massey politically if he does go ahead and take that risk. [7:10] Because I think every American wants the information unless maybe you're in the file. [7:15] Yeah, I guess so. [7:16] You know, I think for Massey, it would really be a product of expanding beyond just his congressional district in Kentucky. [7:26] And he was asked if he would run for president, and he hasn't ruled that out. [7:31] You know, it's interesting, Ro Khanna, who's probably also on the screen in that press conference, [7:37] he has been very outspoken. [7:39] He's really been Thomas Massey's partner in all of this Epstein transparency and was Marjorie Taylor Greene to a large part. [7:47] But Ro Khanna is very much in the thick of it when it comes to Democratic presidential ambitions. [7:54] He's going to be in South Carolina tonight. [7:56] And I think a big part of his campaign and his national brand has also been that transparency when it comes to these files. [8:04] Alex, we talk so much about politics, but let's talk about the survivors. [8:08] You've gotten to know many of them. [8:10] You have been wonderful in trying to get their stories out to all of us. [8:15] So let's talk a little bit about how they're feeling, because a lot of them say, look, the DOJ didn't reach out to me. [8:23] I haven't been able to tell my story. [8:25] They keep saying they're doing all this stuff, but I know personally they're not. [8:28] How are they doing? [8:29] What are some of these stories that stand out to you? [8:33] Well, Holly, a lot of them are incredibly frustrated. [8:35] One of the survivors that I spoke with down in Palm Beach ahead of the hearing when I was there a couple of weeks ago [8:41] told me that she doesn't think anything is really going to be done under this administration. [8:44] That's Marina Lacerda. [8:47] She's actually in D.C. right now, and she texted me a video earlier this morning where she was kind of getting pushed out of the way. [8:52] She tried to get up as Pam Bondi was walking in there to talk to her. [8:57] Her and the survivors were in the hallway there, and they kind of got pushed to the side as Pam Bondi made her way through. [9:03] You know, they were yelling at her. [9:05] You can hear on this video them saying, tell the truth, tell the truth. [9:09] They were not acknowledged by her. [9:11] She was one of the survivors in the room in February where they were raising their hands at the hospital. [9:14] They hadn't been contacted, and this is really the prevailing feeling that I've heard from all the survivors that I'm talking with. [9:21] They're deeply concerned that there's not a technical way that justice will be obtained. [9:27] They are so focused on having these files released, the files that have not been released, [9:33] making sure that the redactions are done properly because so many of them were outed despite not ever wanting to be named publicly. [9:41] And there's a lot of concern there that either their information is not going to get out or that it's going to get out improperly. [9:47] And what I found really shocking this morning, too, is James Comer, who is leading one of the coalitions to get all the information out, [9:55] said that there was documents that the Department of Justice had never seen when they subpoenaed the Epstein estate information. [10:04] So how can you say you're doing a full investigation? [10:07] And even the investigation is closed. [10:09] We've done everything when you don't see all the documentation. [10:12] So we want to pick this up another time. [10:16] Alex, Raff, thanks for the conversation. [10:18] We're up against a commercial break, but let's continue this in the future. [10:22] It's not going anywhere. [10:22] It's not going anywhere.