‘Pissed’ Trump told Netanyahu that he’s ‘f***ing crazy’: Axios

[0:00] The big question with Iran is what now and what next Iranian state media signaling that talks to [0:05] end the war are now back on track. That's just after reports that Iran had suspended talks [0:12] with the United States over Israel's offensive in southern Lebanon. And according to Axios, [0:18] President Trump just yesterday unloaded on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over this [0:24] with expletives flying over the phone. Axios reports that Trump demanded that Netanyahu back [0:31] off his plans to take his attacks and offensive against Hezbollah straight to the center of Beirut. [0:38] A U.S. official summarized the call this way to Axios, that Trump told Netanyahu, quote, [0:43] you're effing crazy. You'd be in prison if it weren't for me. I'm saving your ass. [0:49] Everybody hates you now. Everybody hates Israel because of this. [0:54] Joining us now is one of the reporters who broke this news, global affairs correspondent for Axios, [1:01] Barak Ravid. Quite the read, Barak, of course, and quite the call. I mean, [1:05] is this how these two leaders speak to each other often? [1:10] Well, I don't know if often, but it's not the first difficult and tough call they had. [1:16] Although a senior U.S. official told me yesterday that it was definitely one of the worst calls they [1:24] had and that maybe there was one call over the war in Gaza that was more difficult than the call [1:33] yesterday. And I think what was, I mean, what led to this is a growing feeling that the president had [1:43] that Netanyahu is out of control. I heard it from several of the president's people. And Trump, [1:50] at the end of the day, wants to end the war with Iran and to deescalate in the region more broadly. [1:58] And he felt that what Netanyahu is doing in Lebanon and his plan to escalate the war further by [2:04] expanding the Israeli ground operation in southern Lebanon and by going on a massive bombing campaign [2:14] in the center of Beirut, knocking down buildings, that that is disproportionate. And that would cause [2:20] an escalation that would undermine what the president was trying to do with getting a deal [2:25] with Iran. I think this is how the president went in to this call yesterday with Netanyahu, [2:31] yesterday around noon. And he told Netanyahu that he needs to stand down and that he needs to [2:36] understand that, you know, this war broadly in the region has to come to an end and that you cannot [2:45] just continue it. And over this call, Trump used the F word several times, told Netanyahu he's effing [2:53] crazy, mentioned the fact that he helped him numerous times regarding his pardon request in his corruption [3:04] trial. And therefore, what I heard from U.S. officials and what I heard and my colleague Mark Caputo [3:10] worked with me on the story. What we heard is that Trump message to Netanyahu was that by doing what [3:17] he's doing in Lebanon, he's being ungrateful to all the assistance Trump gave him on the pardon issue. [3:25] And I think this is also what, you know, what led to the mention of not for me, you would you would have [3:32] been in prison by now. That does sound very Trump-esque of saying you have you have not been grateful or [3:38] shown you're grateful enough. So then the what now? I mean, is it clear that Israel is going to slow or pull [3:44] back on operations against Hezbollah in Lebanon because of this or just specifically exactly maybe where [3:49] they're targeting? And isn't there a responsibility? And what's that? Where's that conversation of Iran to tell [3:55] Hezbollah its proxy to stop as well? No, definitely. And I think the Iranians for two or three weeks now [4:05] told Hezbollah to escalate because they wanted to, you know, put pressure on Israel and to also put [4:12] pressure on Trump. And this is why we saw Hezbollah escalating. On the other hand, once Israel escalated [4:21] its response, the Iranians came to the U.S. and said, oh, if they're escalating, we're out. We're not [4:26] talking to you anymore. I think this was part of this Iranian maneuver to, you know, to try and [4:31] because the Iranians at the end of the day, they want the deal to end the war and they want it on [4:35] their terms. And I think they thought that through Lebanon, through putting pressure through Lebanon, [4:40] they would get better terms or would get Trump closer to where they are. But I think now the [4:46] question is what happens. So the ceasefire at the moment, we had numerous announcements on a [4:53] ceasefire. Most of them stayed on paper. So I think we need to see if this is actually implemented [4:58] because we're just in the first phase. The first phase is Hezbollah stops shooting rockets at Israeli [5:05] towns in the northern border and Israel holds or suspends its plans to attack Beirut. This is a very [5:12] minimal thing. There's fighting on the ground in southern Lebanon. Israel has ground forces there. [5:19] They're demolishing buildings in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah is firing attack drones at Israeli forces [5:27] in southern Lebanon. So the fighting is still ongoing. And I think that today, actually, I think in 40 [5:34] minutes at the State Department, Israeli and Lebanese diplomats will meet under U.S. auspices to try and [5:42] actually consolidate the ceasefire and try to agree what does it actually mean and how do we actually [5:51] make it work and not just stay as a true social post. The group chat is back, but this time we have [5:57] got Gordon Sondland, the former ambassador to the EU. Thank you so much for being here. Good morning. So what is [6:04] the relationship between Trump and Netanyahu? I don't want to say that just because people were swearing [6:10] things are bad. But what do you know about that relationship? Well, I can tell you they're like [6:14] brothers from another mother. They talk all the time. Yes, they swear at each other. And the swearing, [6:20] by the way, goes both directions. They literally are almost like siblings. They think very, very much [6:27] alike when it comes to U.S. policy vis-a-vis Israel and vice versa. I don't view this as anything other [6:35] than business as usual. Netanyahu is in a real box with Hezbollah because they started with a real [6:43] ceasefire. And of course, Hezbollah violated it within two minutes. And Netanyahu has no choice. He has to [6:50] hit back. And Trump is trying to play three-dimensional chess with Iran. He is. Can I ask about that? Because so [6:56] far on this show, we often talk about Iran and the U.S. That's the conversation. What is the deal, [7:02] nuclear? And in the meantime, these bulldozers moving through southern Lebanon says there's [7:07] another actor here. And that issue has not been addressed. And Iran has brought it up. Does it have, [7:15] is Trump having this conversation with Netanyahu in this way because it's jeopardizing any hopes of [7:21] the deal reopening the Strait of Hormuz, all these other issues that are all tied together? [7:26] Don't kid yourself. There's not another actor here. Hezbollah is a complete proxy for Iran. [7:31] No, but what I'm saying, it was U.S.-Israeli strikes, right? That was the initial. And so [7:36] where is Israel in the conversation between Iran and the U.S.? [7:41] Here's where Israel is in the conversation. The news that never really hit page one that should have [7:49] been, well, it probably hit page one, but it disappeared instantly. When Peshkian resigned, [7:55] the president of Iran resigned, that told you everything you need to know about what's going [8:00] on there. Trump is dealing with a five-headed monster. He's dealing with multiple factions of [8:06] the IRGC, and they're fighting amongst each other. The more moderates, and what calling Peshkian a moderate [8:12] is really saying something because he's no moderate, but compared to the others, he really is. When he [8:17] resigned, it tells you that Trump does not have one solid interlocutor in Iran with whom to negotiate this [8:24] deal. And they're all trying to placate one another. The IRGC has billions of dollars stashed overseas [8:31] in Swiss bank accounts and elsewhere. They want to keep their money. They want to keep their power. [8:37] But he's negotiating with someone, right? So there is a conversation. [8:42] With many. With many. [8:42] But here's something Axios was reporting. We mentioned the cursing. Axios went further. [8:47] They said, summarizing Trump's remarks to Netanyahu, the US official said, so this is coming from our [8:54] side leaking this, you're effing crazy. You'd be in prison if it weren't for me. I'm saving your ass. [9:00] Everybody hates you now. Everybody hates Israel because of this. This is what they're attributing [9:06] to Trump. And in the meantime, I just want to show for audience Pew Research Center, American views of [9:11] Israel and specifically Netanyahu are upwards of 60 percent disapprove. [9:17] Which means he's doing a fantastic job. Netanyahu. [9:20] Netanyahu is doing a fantastic job. So is Trump responding to the fact that there are large numbers [9:25] of the US population that don't think he's doing a fantastic job. Trump is responding to a situation [9:31] that is momentary. In other words, he's clearly getting somewhere with someone in Iran [9:37] and he views Netanyahu at that moment in time, not generally, as effing that up. So he's saying, [9:44] like you would to a brother, just stop for a minute. Just stop. I'm trying to get this deal over [9:49] the edge. I'm going to draw Terry into the conversation because when I tried to break out [9:53] the numbers in Pew, Democrats versus Republicans, we saw what we know from the last two years. [9:58] Democrats, 80 percent Democrats within US view Israel and Netanyahu unfavorably. The number that struck me is [10:06] Republicans going up to 41 percent. And it seemed to be in line with the world of what we have been [10:13] calling marquee podcast land, right? Your Tucker Carlson's and whoever, even the Rogans of the world [10:19] who are being very, who are expressing their frustration with Netanyahu in Israel to their [10:27] to their constituencies, to their listeners. Yeah. Well, look, this is what happens when you get [10:32] $5 a gallon for gas. Republicans are very frustrated. We did not vote for this at all. [10:39] And I think a lot of the discrepancy is coming because Trump's trying to get a peace deal. He's [10:43] trying to tone this down and get out of this and meanwhile, take away Iran's nukes. But Israel [10:49] doesn't want Iran to exist, right? That's the reality. And that's why they keep doing these things [10:54] and screwing up our peace talks. But you're going to see that number continue to tick up the longer this [10:58] conflict goes on. And that's why it's very important that President Trump gets to a quick [11:02] conflict. I don't agree at all. You're saying Israel does not want Iran to exist? Israel very [11:07] much wants Iran to exist as a partnership. What they don't want is the clerical regime to exist. [11:13] There are about 90 million people in Iran and about 88 million of them would love to be a peaceful [11:18] partner of Israel. The two million that don't happen to have all the money and the weapons. Well, [11:23] I think actions speak louder than words. I'll defer to you. You are the foreign policy expert, [11:27] but I think that there's a lot of really bad things that we're seeing coming out of this entire [11:31] conflict. And the quicker we can get out of it, I think the better it is going to be for our country [11:35] and for the future of America. Can I let you answer one more thing, [11:38] just because he said screwing up the talks. This is, I guess, kind of the question I was asking. [11:44] Can you respond to that world of maybe Republican voter that thinks Israel is, quote unquote, [11:50] screwing up the talks? I think unfortunately, and this sounds sort of unctuous and I don't mean to, [11:56] but I think the American public is not well educated on what Israel does for and with the [12:02] United States and why Israel is such a key ally. And it's very popular right now to hate Bibi Netanyahu, [12:09] but Bibi Netanyahu is fighting for the existence of his country. And when you're fighting for the [12:14] existence of your country, which could be wiped out just like that, you take a very different position [12:20] than when you're just fighting for a little more territory or a little of this or a little of that. [12:24] And that's the difference. This is a very long conversation, which I know we don't have time [12:29] for, but what Bibi Netanyahu is doing, he will go down 20 or 30 years from now long after he's gone [12:35] as one of the most consequential leaders in the world.