Part 2: Maine Democratic U.S. Senate debate for who will replace Graham Platner

[0:06] Welcome back to the second half of our Voice of the Voter Democratic U.S. Senate debate. [0:10] In this part, you'll be hearing from four other candidates who hope to be their party's nominee. [0:15] With us are David Costello, who ran unsuccessfully for the nomination this year and was the Democratic Senate nominee two years ago. [0:22] Lizzie Dickerson, who was elected to two terms in the Maine House of Representatives, [0:26] but resigned early in the second term to move to Colorado. Of course, she's back. [0:30] Dan Kleben, co-founder of the Maine Beer Company in Freeport. [0:33] And Ashley Webb, a political newcomer from Farmington. Welcome to all of you. [0:38] The format is the same as it was for the previous hour, so let's get to the candidates' opening statements. [0:42] We're going in alphabetical order. David Costello. [0:45] My name is David Costello. I'm a former senior level government official. [0:49] And I'm running for the United States Senate to help in ending the Trump administration's reckless assault on our democracy, environment, and economy. [0:57] Repair the considerable damage that's already been done, and enact reforms to protect against future assaults and ensure that all Mainers, not just the wealthy, [1:07] are provided with the education, job skills, health care, housing, and other life-enriching resources to thrive. [1:13] I ran, as was told in 2024, because I believe that Washington was broken. [1:18] Well, you can imagine what I think now. To fix Washington, we need to nominate the candidate for the United States Senate, [1:25] whose background, knowledge, and experience most sharply contrasts that with Senator Coleman's. [1:33] Having grown up in a working-class family in Old Town and having served for more than 27 years in senior-level government positions, [1:39] I believe that I'm that candidate. I'm asking for your support. [1:43] And for more information, check out CostelloForSenate.com. Thank you. [1:47] Lizzie Dickerson. [1:48] Hi. Thank you for hosting this. [1:50] And I'd also like to take a moment to acknowledge Mr. Guerrero's family and Biddeford. [1:56] I'm Elizabeth Dickerson. [1:58] I am also the founder and an admin on the Main Aurora Borealis Watch page, [2:03] which we've got about 80,000 people on there who depend on my space weather forecasting. [2:08] Some of you might be on there. [2:09] But I did this because I'm very interested in climate. [2:14] And President Trump has done about everything he can do to strip away any protections that we have on climate. [2:22] And the platform that we all have, I think that we've heard tonight, is kind of simple. [2:27] But the thing that really keeps us from achieving this is one seat in the Senate. [2:32] And that seat is currently held by Senator Collins. [2:34] And it's really important for people to vote blue to get that seat in Democratic hands for food security for all, [2:43] health care for all, housing for all, to abolish ICE, and to reverse climate change and end the war. [2:50] Thank you for listening. [2:51] Dan Kleeman. [2:52] Well, thank you. [2:53] Thank you for hosting this debate. [2:55] And thank you to the tireless work of the folks at the Democratic Party for putting this all together on such short notice. [3:02] I'm not a career politician. [3:05] I'm a husband and a father raising 15-year-old twins alongside my wife, Beth, a nurse from Lubeck. [3:11] When I was in sixth grade, my parents split. [3:15] I lived with my mom shortly thereafter. [3:18] She was diagnosed with a terminal illness. [3:21] And I watched her go through numerous torturous treatments, dialysis, surgeries, and I was often the sole caregiver for her. [3:33] She passed away when I was 15. [3:36] When I was 21, I moved to Maine for a fresh start. [3:39] In 2008, I was laid off. [3:41] And my wife, Beth, God bless her, she cashed in her $30,000 401k, which allowed me to found Maine Beer Company with a simple motto of do what's right. [3:53] When I looked down at Washington, D.C., Susan Collins is not doing what's right. [3:57] We need someone who's going to stand up for Mainers. [3:59] And Graham Plattner was right. [4:01] The system's rigged. [4:02] And Susan Collins has been a part of that system for nearly 30 years. [4:06] I'm going to fight on behalf of Mainers. [4:07] I'm a new generation of leadership. [4:09] I will unify this party, and I will beat Susan Collins. [4:13] Ashley Webb. [4:14] Ashley Webb. [4:15] I'm from Farmington, Maine. [4:16] The biggest thing I'd like to get across is that we need unity. [4:21] Whoever wins this nomination, we need to show up at the polls. [4:24] We need to vote for them. [4:26] And we need to make sure they win no matter what because what's going on in this country is not right. [4:32] With the immigration and immigrants are being targeted, they're being rounded up like animals, it's not acceptable to allow this to go on in our streets. [4:42] And then with the trans community, we're being dehumanized. [4:47] They say that we want to hurt people. [4:48] I don't want to hurt anybody. [4:49] I just want to use the bathroom. [4:52] And if they want me to use the men's room, I will. [4:55] I don't want to be assaulted. [4:58] And as far as what happened in Biddeford, it's unacceptable. [5:04] We knew since January what ICE has been doing with Alex and Renee. [5:09] Let's move on to the questions. [5:13] Let's start with how well you are known or not known to the voters. [5:18] I think it's fair to say that there are varying degrees of recognition you have. [5:21] But for certainly two of you candidates, 99% of people in Maine had never heard of you 48 hours ago, maybe six or seven minutes ago. [5:31] So let me start with you, Lizzie Dickerson. [5:32] Sure. [5:33] What qualifications do you have to serve in what is not an entry level job? [5:37] What is an entry level job? [5:38] What is an extremely important job in the United States? [5:41] Well, I actually have a master's of business administration degree. [5:44] I am a finance person as well. [5:47] There is a lot of education I have on board in this department. [5:51] I'm pretty good at reading budgets. [5:54] I'm actually a town manager. [5:56] I have been a town manager. [5:57] And I can say that I've lowered people's taxes while also raising salaries and benefits. [6:01] So there's one thing. [6:04] But no, it's true. [6:05] I mean, but I think the reason I'm doing this is because people have become disenfranchised. [6:11] They feel like everyday people can't have access to their own government. [6:14] The qualification for running for office doesn't really involve pretty fancy things. [6:20] It involves being a citizen. [6:22] As you know, you've probably read the Constitution and the laws. [6:25] People feel like they just can't do that because there's so much money in government. [6:29] They can't run. [6:30] They'd never stand a prayer of a chance. [6:32] And so that's why I've done it. [6:33] Dan Cleveland. [6:34] Yeah, well, I am not a career politician. [6:38] I've spent the last 20 years starting a business out of my garage, raising twins. [6:45] I've grown my business from me and my brother to now over 100 employees. [6:50] We provide a living wage. [6:53] We cover 100% of their health insurance premiums. [6:56] We provide for their retirement. [6:57] And we've given millions of dollars back into our community to help preserve this wonderful state that we live in. [7:03] And in addition to that, I've served on numerous nonprofit boards. [7:07] I'm on the board of the University of Southern Maine, my alma mater. [7:10] And I've also served as the leader of the Maine Brewers Guild, helping small businesses grow small businesses here in Maine and revolutionize the beer industry in this state. [7:19] And I went on to serve as the chair of our National Brewers Association, representing the interests of over 9,000 small businesses across this country and making sure that small businesses had a seat at the table against the large multinational brewers. [7:33] So people know Dan Kleban in Maine. [7:36] And so I think people are sick and tired of career politicians. [7:39] And I've looked to go down to D.C. and bring that kind of unique experience, which is sorely lacking. [7:44] Ashley Webb, what qualifications do you have to serve in the U.S. Senate? [7:47] Oh, I ran for office several times. [7:51] Didn't win, but I did run. [7:53] And then I'm a songwriter. [7:55] And then I write my own books. [7:57] And then I suppose my transparency, I wouldn't lie to the people and I wouldn't deceive the people like we're being deceived right now. [8:06] Like we get lied, smoke, smoke and mirrors like what's going on with ICE, pretending like, pretending like these victims did something wrong. [8:16] Like that's unacceptable. [8:17] And I suppose the biggest thing is, like, I'm just an angry citizen now. [8:24] And if I got elected, I'd be an angry senator. [8:26] And I think that would probably be their worst nightmare. [8:30] David Costello. [8:32] Like Dan, I haven't held elective office. [8:34] But I have, as I mentioned earlier, I've held senior level positions for over 25, 27 years, actually. [8:40] I was a top aide to Maine Secretary of State. [8:43] I was a top aide to the mayor of Baltimore. [8:46] I was a top aide to the mayor of Baltimore when he became governor. [8:49] I also served as a country program manager for USAID and a country team leader for USAID, OTI, in countries like Cambodia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Haiti. [9:00] I also helped to run the state's Department of the Environment in Maryland. [9:05] So I've got over 27 years of senior level hands-on government experience. [9:10] I believe I have the most experience of any of the candidates in this race for the United States Senate. [9:14] I've also managed, instead of just talking about or legislating about public policy, I've actually managed complex, multimillion-dollar operations and programs, not only in the United States, but as I've said abroad. [9:28] So I think that kind of perspective, as well as having grown up in a working-class family with a single mother, widowed at 28, I think that kind of lived experience is one that's missing in Congress. [9:40] And I think I could bring that kind of governing experience as well as lived experience, and that's why I believe I've got the most experience of the candidates and would provide the greatest contrast with Senator Collins, who has very little hands-on government experience. [9:55] Wait, wait. [9:56] Yeah. [9:57] That statement needs to be called on. [9:59] Sure. [10:00] You just said Senator Collins has very little hands-on experience? [10:03] Senator Collins, I'm talking about the kind of hands-on, get-your-hands-dirty managing programs and operations, governmental programs. [10:09] As you know, a legislator will talk a lot about programs, will talk a lot about legislation, but they've never managed, never fully managed the kind of operations and programs that I believe I have, and that's the kind of contrast I'm talking about. [10:22] Okay. [10:22] Thank you. [10:23] Yeah. [10:23] We'll talk specifically about things in Senator Collins' record and maybe President Trump's record, but since we're up to Dan, I noticed you have a platform. [10:33] It's pretty long. [10:34] So I guess, you know, this race is not just about one seat, it's about the Democratic majority. [10:40] Maine is among a small group of states that all the pundits have labeled competitive, toss-up, use whatever word you will. [10:46] So the Democrat has a chance, right, no matter how long-centered to Collins has been the Senate and her strengths. [10:52] So what is it you would hope to achieve, first and foremost? [10:56] We've heard the word affordability all year long. [10:58] That's the big buzzword. [10:59] But you've got your platform, Dan. [11:01] Let's say you're elected and you're part of a new Democratic majority. [11:04] What's the day one agenda for you? [11:07] Well, one, we need to stop this brutality that ICE is imposing on communities across this country. [11:13] You know, it just brought home to Biddeford on Monday when Johann Sebastian Guerrero was gunned down. [11:17] That needs to stop day one. [11:19] Two, the foreign war in Iraq. [11:24] Iraq or Iran? [11:25] I'm sorry, Iran. [11:26] That escapade over there is costing us almost, by some estimates, $100 billion. [11:31] While at home, people are struggling to put gas into their car and affordability. [11:37] People can't afford health care. [11:39] They can't afford housing. [11:41] They can't afford a quality education. [11:42] The American dream has all but slipped away from too many Mainers. [11:47] So, yeah, I'm going to go down to Washington, D.C., and I'm going to fight for Mainers. [11:51] I'm going to stand up to Donald Trump and not be a rubber stamp like Susan Collins has been. [11:56] But people also want to know how are you then going to make my life better? [12:00] And in that plan, the do-what's-right substack, I lay out a pretty detailed, some pretty detailed solutions to that. [12:07] And I think as a Democratic Party, that's what we need to inspire people on. [12:10] As someone who started a small business in his garage and has grown it to employ over 100 people and ship beer across the country, [12:17] and it has really become a bedrock of the main economy, [12:19] I think I have the kind of skills to move the Democratic Party forward. [12:23] Ashley, you're elected senator. [12:25] You're part of a new Democratic majority. [12:26] Where do you start when you get to Washington? [12:28] I had to reform the health care. [12:30] I think it's time that we start refunding what was stolen from us. [12:34] It's made it more difficult to get appointments with doctors because they're understaffed. [12:40] If you do get an appointment with a doctor, good luck. [12:42] It could be months before you get in and get treated. [12:45] I think another thing that should be taken care of is the tariffs. [12:50] That's what you act the price on a lot of the products in the stores. [12:52] I pay more for my coffee. [12:53] I'm pretty certain a lot of Americans pay more for their coffee. [12:56] He thinks that Trump's tariffs on the coffee and then it's affecting every other product. [13:01] As far as Iran goes, yeah, that war should be stopped. [13:05] Like, why are we paying for this never-ending war? [13:08] Like, every one of those bombs they drop on them, that's more of our tax dollars going away. [13:13] And then the question is, where did they get the money to fund this? [13:16] They're not able to fund health care, but they're able to fund this war. [13:19] Yeah, I would focus on how we bring down costs immediately. [13:24] And there are a couple of things we can do in tandem. [13:26] One is we can help to raise wages by establishing a national living wage. [13:30] We can also increase Social Security benefits for retirees who aren't receiving enough income. [13:37] We'd also, on the cost side, I support Medicare for all. [13:41] I've supported since the 1980s. [13:42] I support universal child care, which would help families with children. [13:46] I'd support putting a lot more money into federal programs, a number of federal programs that would expand housing assistance, first-time homebuyers, renters, those kinds of things. [13:55] So I think that kind of focus, and I think the Democratic Party would focus very much on that. [14:00] And also, to fund it, we'd look to repeal a lot of the earlier Bush and Trump tax cuts. [14:06] And, Lizzie, Democratic majority, you're in it. [14:08] What happens on day one? [14:09] Yes, so on day one, we're going to end the Iran war, and then we're going to take a look at health care. [14:14] The problem with health care is that the insurance companies don't want us to look at it. [14:19] So it actually would be a lot cheaper to do a single-payer system than what we have now. [14:24] When I was in the Rockland City Council, I actually did a detailed Excel spreadsheet detailing how much all of this would cost. [14:31] It is being blocked by people who are making money on those insurance payments. [14:36] I don't actually have health insurance right now because I can't afford it. [14:41] And many people are in my position. [14:44] I work as a realtor. [14:47] I'm basically a self-employed person. [14:49] Sometimes I can afford it. [14:50] Sometimes I can't. [14:52] It's ridiculous. [14:53] We are the richest nation in the universe. [14:55] Well, I'm a space weather forecaster, so there you go. [14:58] But we're the richest nation here, apparently. [15:01] And we don't have health insurance for everybody. [15:05] We have to really work on climate. [15:08] This is another factor that's actually costing us a lot of money. [15:12] So right there, out of the bat. [15:14] Rob? [15:14] We're the richest country in the world, and we are awash in debt. [15:19] The national debt right now is around $40 trillion. [15:21] The annual deficit around $2 trillion. [15:24] It is just exploding. [15:26] And every expert who looks at this says it is not sustainable, and it will end badly. [15:32] However, neither Democrats nor Republicans in the White House or in Congress have shown [15:37] any interest in about 25 years in addressing this challenge. [15:41] Ashley Webb, if you were in the U.S. Senate, how would you address the deficit problem? [15:47] And please give me specifics. [15:50] Well, I think cutting spending, looking for waste, fraud, and abuse, that's the best way [15:54] to cut the spending. [15:55] A lot of money is being paid for the reflecting pool. [15:59] We paid that contract to redo the reflecting pool, and it didn't fix the problem. [16:04] It still has algae growing in it. [16:06] Anybody who knows a pool knows that that's going to grow if you're not properly filtering [16:11] the water. [16:12] That, I'm going to jump in, because that is a microscopic amount of money compared to [16:18] what the federal budget is. [16:20] Give me some proposals that would have a real impact, either in spending cuts or in increased [16:29] taxes. [16:29] When a bill gets passed, sometimes they tack on extra incentives to get senators to vote [16:38] on these bills. [16:40] I believe for the Obamacare, it was one group got youth arrows added to the bill. [16:46] That shouldn't have been added. [16:47] That's an extra expense that wasn't part of the health care bill that Americans wanted. [16:54] I believe they called it pork-bellying. [16:57] By cutting out the pork-bellying from all the bills, I'm sure that would save a lot of money [17:01] as well. [17:02] All right. [17:04] David Costello, specifics, please. [17:06] Well, a couple of things. [17:07] One is I think we've got to increase revenue. [17:08] So, as I said, I'd want to roll back the Bush and the Trump tax cuts, at least on the wealthy, [17:13] not certainly the middle class and working class families. [17:16] So, I would also want to support the implementation of a wealth tax, because much of the money that [17:22] most wealthy people have are in savings and investments. [17:25] So, we could, but at the same time, protect seniors. [17:29] So, for instance, start maybe at $10 million per household. [17:32] Only about 1.6% of households in the United States have more than $10 million in savings [17:38] or investment, and so protect seniors. [17:41] I would also want to establish a commission like a BRAC commission, a commission that's [17:45] totally independent, that would review the budgets of all agencies and look for the kind [17:50] of waste, no political context at all, a connection to this commission needs to be apolitical, and [17:56] also made up of experts who could actually dive in and point to and rank programs and zero out [18:02] budgets, or at least, you know, propose zeroing out budgets. [18:06] So, for instance, in the Defense Department or DHS, looking at particular programs and divisions [18:13] and looking at those budgets and being apolitical and focused on, again, on identifying as experts [18:19] would, what are the most costly and effective programs? [18:23] Lizzie Dickerson? [18:24] Yeah. [18:24] So, military spending, it's a matter of priorities. [18:28] So, we value military spending over investing in feeding children. [18:33] It's a problem. [18:35] That would be the first thing I'd go to. [18:39] Dan Kleban. [18:41] Yeah. [18:41] Well, I mean, as the father of teenagers, I mean, we, I worry that we are literally mortgaging [18:47] their future away, and I think every parent probably feels the same way I do. [18:52] As a small business owner, I understand what it's like to balance budgets, and nothing bothers [18:57] a small business owner more than wasteful spending, but not the kind, the Elon Musk-style [19:03] doge, random, and often inhumane cuts, but targeted cuts that actually go after real waste, fraud, [19:11] and abuse. [19:12] And third, like I mentioned before, you know, the foreign war in Iran that's costing billions [19:19] of dollars, raising the price of gas for people here at home, and that money can not only be [19:24] used to bring down the debt, but it can be strategically used to invest in things that would grow the [19:28] economy. [19:29] Let's look at the housing problem here in the state of Maine. [19:32] Let's invest in new modular technologies. [19:35] Let's invest in health care that can help people not only stay healthy, but they can, which allows them to go to work. [19:41] There's all these things that we can do to really grow the pie. [19:44] Let's grow the economy, which grows the tax base. [19:47] All right. [19:48] Phil? [19:49] Several of you have already mentioned, maybe all of you, the ice killing in Biddeford this week. [19:55] And I want to know where you stand. [19:59] Some of you, maybe all of you, watched the first hour, and to a candidate, they all talked about abolishing ICE. [20:06] That may be your goal, but as Rob noted in the last hour with Trump as president and Republican control of Congress, [20:12] for now, maybe that's not going to happen. [20:15] And so I want to ask you, in the short run, what kind of reforms would you like to see imposed on ICE or strings attached to some of the appropriations that the agency gets? [20:26] The funding has tripled in the past couple of years. [20:29] I think we're up to you, David Costello. [20:31] Well, certainly I would support the dismantling of ICE, but understanding your question, I would say that if we take over Congress, [20:37] if we flip one of the houses of Congress, we've got the ability of the purrs to help to attach those strings much more effectively. [20:44] So I'd certainly look for any ICE agents having sufficient training, making sure that they've passed all of the training that even, say, the state police are required to do in the state of Maine. [20:54] I mean, there's many untrained ICE agents out there. [20:57] Obviously, I think you take off the mask, you put on, you put on, insist that they have body cameras. [21:03] There's plenty of money, as people have discussed, to do that. [21:07] Also, I would take away immunity for offenders. [21:09] If they're fully prosecuted and investigated, they should be held accountable. [21:13] So those are the kinds of things. [21:15] I think overall, as well as the budget, we can certainly reduce the budget to the extent that it's necessary. [21:21] As I said, if we've got the kind of commission that gives frank evaluations and programs, we can zero out much of that budget over time and put money into a more effective law enforcement, [21:31] whether it's more money to local police forces, which tend to be better, more community police-based forcing, those kinds of things would take care of the crime. [21:40] Because there is no evidence that immigrants create crime at a greater extent than other Americans. [21:45] Quite frankly, it's the opposite. [21:48] Lizzie Dickerson, what would you do to reform ICE? [21:50] Well, the problem with all of this is that we really can't get to work on any of these things until we vote Susan Collins out of there [21:59] and get a Democrat in there who is committed to this change. [22:04] Because even though all of us who have spoken tonight are very committed to either abolishing ICE or reforming and then abolishing ICE or starting all over or some combination therein, [22:16] we can't get that done until we actually have control of the Senate. [22:22] And so really the top priority for everybody watching at home is to make sure that they are registered to vote, that they go vote. [22:31] If we are all angry about ICE, this is really what we have to do. [22:35] We can't go make them have body cameras if no one's going to hold them accountable. [22:40] I mean, we heard from Senator Collins, oh, we're going to, you know, stop the arbitrary traffic stops and then Trump overruled that. [22:47] Guess not. [22:49] No. [22:49] No one is doing anything to help this until we vote those people out. [22:55] Dan, any reforms for ICE that haven't happened yet that you'd like to see? [23:00] Yeah, I mean, let me be clear. [23:02] Donald Trump and Susan Collins' ICE need to be abolished. [23:06] It is rotten to the core and it's irredeemable. [23:09] We need to take back control of the Senate and that control runs through Maine. [23:13] And I believe I'm the best candidate to take on Susan Collins and beat her. [23:17] So if we get the majority in the Senate, we have the power, we do have the power of the purse. [23:23] We have control over the budget and we can demand change. [23:25] We can demand things like every other police department in this country abides by, right? [23:31] No mask, badges, body cameras, judicial warrants, just a humane police presence that enforces immigration law, [23:40] not the thugs that are roaming our cities and towns right now. [23:43] That is not immigration enforcement. [23:46] And last, there needs to be justice. [23:48] There needs to be justice for Renee Goode. [23:51] There needs to be justice for Alex Preddy. [23:52] And there needs to be justice for Johan Sebastian Guerrero. [23:56] And I promise I will deliver that justice as a United States Senator. [24:00] Ashley Webb, your thoughts on ICE and reform? [24:03] I'd say the first thing would be reverse their budget. [24:06] And then I agree they need to take the masks off and they need to put their badges on. [24:11] And then they also need to wear their body cams. [24:13] And I don't believe they should be able to just walk away after they shoot somebody. [24:18] They should be held accountable. [24:19] They should be investigated. [24:20] And they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. [24:24] As far as the immunity, I'd like to see that stripped away. [24:27] It's probably not going to get stripped away. [24:29] If we tried to go after it, Liels are going to fight it. [24:32] I guess the best option would be to defund them as much as we can. [24:40] I would like to abolish them, but that's probably not going to happen either. [24:44] No one said anything about not shooting into vehicles, which I don't think most police departments do. [24:49] I'm not really sure. [24:50] Rob? [24:50] Yeah, the training. [24:51] Just like every other police force in this country. [24:55] Proper training. [24:56] I mean, we would solve a lot of these problems if the government treated ICE just like the Portland Police Department, the Freeport Police Department. [25:04] We don't have these issues in Maine. [25:06] It's more a political instrument as opposed to a public safety instrument. [25:10] Yeah, the problem is... [25:10] It's purposely political designed by the Trump administration, and it should absolutely be abolished. [25:16] With quotas, right? [25:17] There's a number he wants. [25:18] There are quotas. [25:18] I think that's, you know, Stephen Miller is fond of discussing how he's juiced up ICE and having quotas to... [25:26] Because it is really a political instrument. [25:28] It has very little to do with public safety or security. [25:30] And it has very little to do with immigration, of course. [25:32] Right. [25:33] This is about sowing fear in our communities. [25:35] It's not just affecting, you know, the people in our communities. [25:39] It's affecting small businesses. [25:40] Yeah. [25:41] I mean, one of my favorite bakeries in Portland is owned by an immigrant who's here lawfully, a United States citizen. [25:47] She employs immigrants who are here lawfully. [25:49] I remember last winter when ICE came into Portland, I went into her shop. [25:53] None of her workers were there. [25:55] I said, where is everybody? [25:56] She's like, I'm too afraid for them to come to work. [25:58] I told them to stay home. [26:00] But, Dan, should people be deported if they came to this country illegally and there is a deportation order signed by a judge? [26:07] Look, I believe that if someone is here illegally and the only crime they committed was that, we need a pathway to citizenship here. [26:15] We know that they're hard, most of them, almost all of them are hardworking people. [26:18] If you're a criminal, if you committed a violent crime or a serious crime, yeah, we have no room for you here. [26:23] You need to get out. [26:25] Anyone else on this topic before we shift gears? [26:27] Go ahead, Lizzie. [26:31] Lizzie, before you answer, I'm just going to come in because I think David's microphone is rubbing up against his job. [26:35] Thanks, and you go ahead and answer. [26:37] Well, I was just going to say that it's an interesting moment in states' rights versus federal rights because, you know, we keep getting ourselves into these tangles with the federal government thanks to Trump. [26:48] And, you know, you heard that from Shanna when she was up here, how she's had to deal with that. [26:53] But also, our attorney general has been talking about suing over this, and I think that that would be a really good approach. [27:00] You know, if we just, as a state, keep on that pressure on the federal government to keep pushing that, yes, this is a federal issue. [27:10] However, you are in our state. [27:12] And any legal means that we can find to continue filing lawsuits against the federal government, I say sue early and sue often. [27:19] Rob, new question. [27:21] You've all got changes that you want to make, and they are pretty profound given the political makeup in Washington. [27:27] Right now, it may be different come January, but right now, Republican president, Republican Senate, Republican House. [27:33] Here's my question. [27:35] Why is the Democratic Party so unpopular with so many voters? [27:41] Which is not to say that the Republican Party is tremendously more popular, but it does hold the power right now. [27:47] So to repeat, why is the Democratic Party not appealing to voters more persuasively? [27:55] Let me ask you that, Lizzie Dickerson. [27:57] Yeah, I was jumping up and down wanting to answer that, because I've been doing a lot of doors, and I've been talking to a lot of people who have been answering this very question. [28:05] The Democratic Party is becoming more popular in many respects with folks, but it's messy. [28:12] So some people are unenrolling because they're upset over what happened with Graham Plattner. [28:16] Some people are re-enrolling. [28:18] They're upset because they feel that the Democrats are, and this is a quote from one of the people at my doors, just like the Republicans. [28:27] All they're interested in is the money. [28:29] They take the big money. [28:31] They just do whatever the big money says to do. [28:33] Now, I'm just quoting what my constituents or people are saying. [28:38] But I think that that's shifting with everything that's been going on with ICE, with everything that's been going on with the war. [28:46] I think it's shifting. [28:47] I think people are starting to say, listen, Democrats, if you can finally deliver on something here, we're willing to support you. [28:53] But they're angry. [28:55] They're disillusioned. [28:56] But they are ready to throw in their support. [28:59] We've just really got to follow through on the promises. [29:01] Dan Klebe, same question. [29:04] Yeah, I mean, you're right. [29:06] The reputation of the Democratic Party is in the toilet. [29:10] And I think the reason it is is because we've lost focus of being the party about kitchen table issues. [29:17] That's what people – when I go down to the Tasty Room after a day at work, you know, I have a beer at the bar, people don't come in talking about cultural issues. [29:25] I mean, I think that's a red herring that's been thrust upon us, and we take the bait every single time. [29:29] What people come in and talk about is the fact that they can't afford a house, they can't afford a mortgage, they can't afford to put groceries on the table, [29:35] they can't afford health care, they can't afford education, we need the party that starts talking about and focusing on those issues. [29:43] Why aren't we talking about transitioning to a green energy economy, where the cheapest energy comes from green energy to lower electricity bills? [29:52] Why aren't we talking about child care? [29:55] As an employer, I understand how important – and as a dad, I understand how important child care is. [30:00] You know, my wife and I had twins. [30:02] When we just started the brewery, I wasn't paying myself. [30:03] My wife was a nurse. We'd have to pass them off in the night because we couldn't afford child care. [30:08] I wouldn't see my wife sometimes for a week. [30:11] Let's focus on child care. Let's cut the cost. Let's raise the wages of our child care providers. [30:15] I mean, these are the kind of issues that care about, and these are the kind of issues that Susan Collins, she frankly doesn't even talk about. [30:21] All right, I want to jump in because your time's up. Ashley Webb. [30:24] I think the biggest issue, like with the ACA, we said that we were going to stand by that, and we weren't going to vote, [30:30] and we were going to keep the government shut down until we passed it. [30:33] Unfortunately, that got passed, and a whole bunch of people got hurt in the process of shutting down the government. [30:39] A lot of government workers, they didn't get paychecks while the government was shut down, [30:43] while they were saying, we want to keep our ACA. [30:45] And then the Democrats in office, several of them crossed the aisle and voted and took away the ACA credits. [30:53] Now people are paying higher health care costs because of it. [30:57] Some people are losing their insurance because they can't even afford it. [31:00] But I think what the biggest thing we should do is when we say we're going to do something, we should do it, [31:06] and we should stand by it and stay united as we stand by it. [31:10] And David Costello. [31:11] Yeah, I agree. [31:12] Excuse me. [31:13] We've got to deliver. [31:13] I mean, we've got to deliver on all of the things that we've been supporting for 30 years, [31:17] which is universal child care, universal health care, universal paid medical and family leave, [31:22] the kind of federal programs, housing assistance, that will address the kinds of concerns that Dan mentioned [31:29] that people come to talk about in his brewery, because those are the concerns of average working and middle-class families. [31:37] We need to address those, and we can, because that's what the collective instrument that government's supposed to do. [31:43] So it really is about providing Medicare for all eventually, bucking up the ACA until we get it. [31:49] It is about universal child care. [31:51] I've got four kids, so I know what child care costs are. [31:54] It's like sending a kid to college when they're a toddler. [31:58] So, I mean, it's about housing and rental assistance. [32:01] That's what people are concerned about. [32:02] When Democrats start to deliver, then we will obviously get a lot more support, [32:08] and I think we're going to win support anyway. [32:10] We want to end the war. [32:11] We want to abolish ICE. [32:12] You know, paramilitary, we want to improve, you know, the elections in terms of making sure they're free and fair and secure [32:20] and obviously taking money out of politics. [32:22] And green energy. [32:24] I was helped to actually coordinate the state's Climate and Clean Energy Action Plan in Maryland. [32:30] It was a leading plan. [32:31] So, I mean, there's a lot we need to do, but if Democrats deliver, well, the support will follow. [32:35] Okay. [32:36] Thank you. [32:36] Phil. [32:37] You just said you're for Medicare for all. [32:38] Is everyone on this panel? [32:41] Dan, no? [32:41] Yeah. [32:42] Yeah. [32:42] I mean, yeah. [32:43] It's incredible. [32:44] Just checking. [32:45] Just checking. [32:45] That's eight for eight with the candidates. [32:47] That's amazing. [32:48] I'm actually on Medicare. [32:49] Oh, okay. [32:50] Well, there you have it. [32:51] So let me ask the question then this way. [32:53] We asked this in the previous panel. [32:55] We're all here tonight because Graham Platten withdrew from the race last week. [32:58] As you know, he had a lot of plans on health care, was advocating Medicare for all. [33:02] He talked about tax reform in a number of ways, curbing corruption, defending democracy. [33:10] Excited a lot of people with his enthusiasm in how he talked about those issues. [33:15] I think we're up to you, Lizzie Dickerson. [33:18] Tell me one idea that you recall from Graham Plattener's campaign that you would embrace [33:23] and pursue if you went to Washington. [33:26] Well, I mean, I think that it isn't so much about the ideas that he had because he was [33:34] talking about things that people have been talking about for a long time. [33:38] He really didn't bring up a whole lot that was new. [33:41] But I think that what happened is that he had a way of getting people excited about doing [33:50] those things and about voting to support those things. [33:54] And I think it's really important for us to keep people on board, that people realize that [34:00] sometimes you don't get the win you think you're going to get, but that doesn't mean you give up. [34:06] And so to me, what's really important is to be out there in the streets and in the communities. [34:12] And that's why I'm doing this, because people really need to not give up. [34:17] Just because you didn't get something that you thought you were going to get, we still have to fight. [34:23] Dan, Cleveland? [34:26] Yeah, Graham Plattener was right. [34:28] The system is rigged against hardworking Mainers. [34:31] I was collateral damage of a rigged system. [34:33] I put my way through undergraduate in law school with the help of my wife. [34:39] I graduated with $200,000 in student loan debt. [34:41] The year after I graduated law school, I got laid off during the Great Recession. [34:45] Not because I did anything wrong, but because of greedy Wall Street speculators. [34:49] My wife and I were wondering what we were going to do. [34:52] I decided I was going to try to do something to show that business could be a constructive force for the state of Maine. [34:58] So I built my beer company and provided, again, living wage, health care, giving back to the environment. [35:03] But look down in D.C. right now. [35:05] Susan Collins is D.C. [35:06] You have congressmen, congresswomen engaged in insider trading. [35:10] That needs to stop. [35:12] They should not be able to trade individual stocks. [35:14] All of their holdings should go into blind trusts. [35:18] You have insiders, government officials betting on prediction markets, on foreign policy. [35:22] How disgusting is that? [35:24] And we have a president who's using the Oval Office as some sort of get-rich-quick scheme [35:29] and bragging about the billions of dollars that he's stuffing into his pockets, his son's pockets, and his friends' pockets. [35:36] And Susan Collins, she's taken, I just read the other day, taking money from a hundred different billionaires for her campaign. [35:42] Who do you think she's looking out for? [35:44] I'm going to look out for you. [35:47] Ashley Webb? [35:48] The biggest thing that I liked about his campaign was he talked about going after corruption and setting term limits for the Supreme Court. [35:58] I believe that, like, you know, that's one way to weed out the corruption. [36:01] Like, these candidates and judges are becoming complacent, and they're just, like, they're just doing what corporations want. [36:14] And I think that's the biggest issue is corporations run this company. [36:19] It's not, like, individuals and it's not our senators running it. [36:22] Corporations call them up in the middle of the night, tell them what to do. [36:25] That's what happened with the ACA. [36:27] I bet you the airlines are angry that their airlines are getting shut down, and that's one of the reasons why, I think, going after the corruption, getting out of our politics is the best way they handle it. [36:44] David Castelli, you shared a number of forum stages with Graham Plattner. [36:47] What do you take away? [36:48] I did, and Graham actually said he voted for me a few years ago. [36:52] How's that? [36:52] Well, actually, I was meant to be the change agent, you know, the change candidate in 2024. [36:57] And I argued then, and certainly Graham agreed, is that we need to change the system. [37:05] Fundamentally, the most important thing is we're going to take money out of politics. [37:09] If we're going to reform our governing practices and institutions, money corrupts everything and disinformation out. [37:17] But certainly money is at the core. [37:19] And so I would very much support comprehensive campaign finance reform, public financing, [37:25] reducing media rates for candidates who meet thresholds, certainly ban gerrymandering, ban the filibuster. [37:33] You know, look at the United States Senate. [37:35] The Senate structurally is obscenely undemocratic. [37:38] That's why we've got a Supreme Court. [37:39] The way it is, it needs to be revised. [37:42] We need term limits in Congress as well as at the court throughout the federal judiciary, retirement requirements. [37:49] There are so many reforms we need to undertake. [37:52] And that's what I liked about what Graham was talking about as well, is the energy behind reform transformation, transforming our government. [38:00] But the most important thing, and I said this to him, if you really want to, because he always talked about mobilizing and organizing people, [38:07] go after the money because even Republicans are sick of the influence, the corrupting influence that money has, [38:13] not only in our politics and government, but throughout our society. [38:16] So I would say money is the biggest issue to address. [38:19] Thank you. [38:20] If one of you was elected to the United States Senate, you're going to be dealing not just with domestic issues, [38:26] but with issues overseas that involve life and death decisions. [38:32] Ukraine, Iran, Israel, to name just a few. [38:36] Let me ask, what experience do you have, each of you, in the field of defense and national security? [38:43] Dan Kleban. [38:44] Yeah, I mean, look, I understand that it's extreme, you know, America plays a unique role in the world. [38:50] And I fear that the Trump administration, well, I know that the Trump administration, [38:55] along with Congress's rubber stamp, is eroding America's position in the world. [39:00] We're supposed to be the shining beacon on a hill. [39:02] And increasingly, we are disenfranchising and alienating our allies in Europe, in the Pacific. [39:09] And all that's doing is weakening the United States. [39:15] President Trump... [39:15] I'm going to jump in. [39:17] That's a criticism of the Trump administration, which is valid as an answer to another question. [39:21] But the question was, what is your experience in the fields of defense and national security? [39:27] Well, I don't come from, you know, I wasn't in the military and I wasn't in the defense industrial complex. [39:31] I'm just a small brewery owner, but I understand, you know, we have materials that are sourced from around the world. [39:39] German brewing equipment is the best brewing equipment built in the world. [39:43] I understand how international trade is vital to a thriving U.S. economy. [39:49] These reckless tariffs are imposing costs on small business owners in Maine and across the country and increasing costs for consumers. [39:56] So I understand how all of these economies are intertwined and how foreign policy endeavors in, like you said, Iran or Maduro in Venezuela are weakening our position. [40:09] And I think that ultimately, at the end of the day, weakens our economy. [40:12] Okay. [40:13] Ashley Webb. [40:14] I don't have any experience. [40:15] What I do know is when I deal with, like, pests like wasps and hornets, I don't go and provoke them. [40:20] Like, attacking Iran, we provoked them. [40:22] Like, personally, I don't think we should have done that. [40:24] I think we should have left them alone. [40:27] They weren't doing anything to us. [40:29] I mean, as far as I know, there wasn't any threats they were making towards us. [40:33] And the claim that they were making nuclear weapons, I don't think they found any evidence of that. [40:38] And then as far as the Gaza Strip goes, like, we're funding that war, too, I believe. [40:43] I believe we're giving Israel money to buy the weapons that they're using. [40:48] I don't think we should be doing that. [40:49] But I think we're provoking them as well. [40:53] I think we should just pull out of that altogether. [40:56] David Costello. [40:57] I worked directly with the military in Haiti when I was working in Haiti. [41:01] We set up 14 field offices. [41:02] We worked with 14 special forces ODA teams to stabilize the situation there so they wouldn't have mass migration or mitigated mass migration in the United States. [41:12] I worked directly with the American and British military in Bosnia and Kosovo. [41:19] There we were trying to undermine nationalist governments like Milosevic or at least reinforce the peace accord. [41:25] So I've had very specific, often day-to-day actions with both the United States and NATO militaries on projects and programs when I worked for USAID in those countries. [41:36] That doesn't mean I don't think we can find fat in the defense budget. [41:40] You know, we're spending $1.7 trillion collectively between us, a trillion annual, the United States, and our allies, $700 billion. [41:51] Compared to Russia and China collectively, that's $500 billion. [41:54] So we're spending enough money, but we're not spending it as smartly as we should. [42:00] So I wouldn't be afraid of criticizing and, again, looking at the commission to force the kind of reforms that cut the waste. [42:07] And the defense budget is certainly the biggest budget where there's a lot of waste in the United States government. [42:12] Lizzie Dickerson. [42:12] Yeah, well, I think what's really important here is not whether you've had experience doing, and I think it's great that David's done these things and everybody's done what they've done. [42:22] But what's important is that somebody with a brain gets in there and says to themselves, why are we even here in the first place? [42:29] And why did this person even become the president of this country? [42:33] Because if you are a student of history, which I have been as part of my public policy education, you start asking questions and you start wondering who's playing the great game here. [42:43] Because many of these leaders in the world who we are having such problems with have often been installed there by our very own government or encouraged to be there [42:54] because of our government's interest in either natural resources or some political maneuvering that they may gain by having control over that particular country. [43:05] So we really just need people with backbones to serve in our government capacity who are willing to take on those hard questions and not just rubber stamp allowing, you know, these alliances to develop on the basis of making more money. [43:22] All right, I'm going to jump in. We have time for one more question, but we're up against the clock. [43:26] So if you could answer this one concisely, 30, 40 seconds, that would be great. [43:30] Phil, you get the last shot. [43:31] Okay, well, I'm going to bring up something new. We're approaching three years since the Lewiston mass shooting, and most Democrats last November supported question two, a red flag law, [43:40] which allows families to start the process to remove a gun from someone who's dangerous or threatening or in a crisis. It passed easily. [43:47] If you were to go to Washington, what would your top priority be to improve gun safety? Dan Cleban. [43:55] Yeah, I mean, I'm a proud gun owner. We have a long history in the state of Maine of responsible gun ownership. Thousands of Mainers own firearms and use them responsibly. [44:07] I do think there is room for common sense gun reforms, universal background checks, closing down the gun show loophole, getting rid of ghost guns where someone can buy a gun and ship it into another state and it wouldn't be able to be tracked. [44:21] There's a lot of common sense, you know, in my house, everybody knows where my guns are. [44:26] They know where the safe is, and my kids do not have access to that. They don't know the code. So safe, you know, safe locking up your guns. [44:34] I think there's a lot of different things that we can do to make sure that firearms are used safely, but as a proud gun owner, I'm proud of our heritage here in Maine, [44:42] and I think people should, you know, be able to continue to enjoy that. [44:45] Thank you. Ashley Webb. [44:46] I think a national red flag law would probably be more appropriate. If you're a danger to society, you shouldn't have a gun. [44:52] I'm sorry about that. Like, these shootings are happening almost every day. When you hear about it on the news, like, it's like, why is this happening? [45:02] As a nation, we shouldn't allow dangerous people to own guns. [45:06] David Costello? [45:07] You know, I grew up, two of the most exciting things I did growing up in old time was learn how to hunt and shoot responsibly. [45:13] But ever since I worked for Ted Kennedy as a teenager, I've supported a broad range of gun safety legislation. [45:19] And I would go further than Dan. I would support an assault weapons ban, which I've supported certainly in the 90s, would continue to work hard to get it. [45:26] I would support Chris Murphy's efforts in the Senate, for instance. [45:30] But I certainly support red flag. I support universal background checks. [45:33] I support holding gun manufacturers accountable. [45:38] I mean, there's a lot, as Dan said, there's a lot we can do. [45:41] And there have been proposals, I would support those proposals, for very comprehensive, common-sense gun safety legislation, none of which would take guns away from law-abiding Mainers. [45:52] And Lizzie Dickerson? [45:54] Yeah. So, obviously, assault weapons ban, red flag laws, all of those things are wonderful. [46:01] The problem is the lobby. [46:02] So, we're dealing with the National Rifle Association, we're dealing with a lot of lobbies who don't want those sorts of things to happen, and this is why it hasn't happened. [46:12] But, you know, obviously, you can have responsible gun ownership, that's great, but for all of the people who are domestic violence survivors, [46:21] or all of the people who have been in these tragic situations where they've lost loved ones, [46:26] we have to get people out of government who are beholden to lobbyists and special interest organizations, [46:34] and we have to enact actual responsible laws, such as the red flag laws and the assault weapons ban. [46:41] We have to do it, because people are going to continue to die, and it's more important to do those things to protect people than to protect your seat in Congress. [46:52] We are out of time. We thank you all for joining us this evening. [46:57] We thank you for watching at home.