Obama says his impact would be diminished if he speaks out too often against Trump

[0:00] It's a critical question facing the Democratic Party today, and whether Barack Obama likes it or not, [0:06] he's smack in the middle of it. Who can be the party's voice as it aims to change the balance [0:11] of power in Washington? In a revealing new interview, the former president tells The New [0:16] Yorker he's chosen to be selective about jumping into the fray. Quote, for me to function like [0:21] Jon Stewart, even once a week, just going off, just ripping what was happening, which, by the way, [0:27] I'm glad Jon's doing, then I'm not a political leader. I'm a commentator. But a lot of Democrats [0:33] are clamoring for a lot more Obama, with the highest approval rating among all former presidents, [0:39] 59% of Americans, and a mind-blowing 96% approval rating among Democrats from a Gallup survey last [0:47] year. But that nostalgia for a different time, a presidency marked by economic recovery, the [0:54] affordable care act, the parents' climate accord, the Iran nuclear accord, and gay marriage legalized. [1:01] Is it unrealistic to believe, to even think that could happen again? I want to bring in former [1:07] Warren campaign senior advisor and campaign manager for Julian Castro, Maya Rupert. Also with us, [1:12] Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist and MSNOW political analyst Eugene Robinson. Eugene, it was fun [1:17] going back and listening to old speeches from Barack Obama, as I did this morning. But I was thinking [1:24] also that there's almost no place in political life where Donald Trump has not upended norms, [1:28] including the role of a past president. It used to be kind of unspoken after serving as leader of [1:34] the free world. Your time's up. You largely keep your opinions to yourself, right? But do you think [1:40] Democrats are right to want to hear from Obama more? [1:43] Well, I certainly understand the urge. But I do think President Obama is right, in that he is right [1:52] to worry about devaluing the impact of his voice when he does use that voice. And he doesn't or he [2:01] shouldn't become just a commentator, someone whose voice is more or less constantly out there. [2:11] That would, I think, diminish the office of former president and diminish the impact of his voice. [2:22] So he has to pick his shots. You can argue about when he chooses to speak and how he chooses to speak. [2:30] But I think the basic instinct is right, that he should speak when he believes he can have the greatest [2:37] impact. I don't think he's in any way unaware of what's going on with the Trump administration, [2:45] of what a departure this is from American norms and how urgent the situation is. [2:51] So, Maya, how should he use all that goodwill out there, all that popularity? [2:55] What do you see as his role in leading the Democratic Party out of what most members seem to think is just [3:02] the wilderness? Well, I think I do agree. I think he's in a tough situation because I agree it shouldn't [3:09] just be a constant string of criticism. He should not become Jon Stewart. At the same time, I think [3:15] there is space for political leadership in moments where what's needed is clearheaded, you know, urging [3:24] leaders to do the right thing in certain moments. And I think the tough part about Barack Obama as a leader [3:31] is that the same thing that stops him from injecting his voice into a lot of these moments [3:37] is maybe the same thing that says perhaps he shouldn't, that really what is needed right now [3:43] is political leadership from a Democratic Party that was forged in this environment, that does [3:49] appreciate that a lot of those norms, the same things that would say past presidents stay out of [3:54] where we are right now, are just not the norms we're living by. And so I think in some ways what he is [4:00] signaling is maybe a willingness to cede that space to a new generation of leaders who say, [4:06] yes, in a normal situation, maybe we have one president at a time. But when we have a president [4:13] that is pushing us fast toward authoritarianism, we need a different set of rules. But I think in order [4:20] to do that, we probably do need a different and newer set of leaders. [4:24] Eugene, I mentioned the speeches, the former president kind of harkens back to his farewell [4:31] speech back in 2017, you know, when he did this interview. I think today it now seems both [4:38] prescient in kind of the need, but also maybe naive about the reality. Take a listen. [4:46] We all have to start with the premise that each of our fellow citizens loves this country just as much [4:52] as we do, that they value hard work and family just like we do, that their children are just as [5:00] curious and hopeful and worthy of love as our own. I was there for that address. I remember vividly [5:11] that kind of inkling of nervousness in the room for what might be ahead, but it almost seems quaint now [5:18] not fully understanding what was ahead. So my very simple question for you is how did we go from there [5:25] to here and can we get back? It just seems like such a different era, doesn't it? In a sense that [5:33] that era was part of the old times. It reminded me, that speech reminded me so much of the speech [5:44] that first put Barack Obama on the political map at that democratic convention in which he gave that [5:53] wonderful speech about there being no red America or blue America, there's only the United States of [5:59] America. And that just seems really then as opposed to now, what we thought of as extreme polarization [6:10] when Obama left office now seems to be turbocharged to an entirely different realm. Now, is there, [6:23] are there words and actions that can bring back some of that, that can make Americans remember that [6:35] we are all part of, of the same enterprise, that we all are Americans and that we all are in it [6:44] together. And I think that's an open question. I have to believe because I'm a congenital optimist [6:51] that it's possible. But I, but when and how, again, if I knew I'd be doing it. [7:00] Yeah, I thought one of the fascinating parts of this Maya, this interview was asking if Trump was a [7:07] repudiation of his presidency. And he said, no, actually 60% of the country still agrees with [7:14] me. So I don't take it personally. But it does remind me of the fact that if you have an activated [7:19] and empowered right wing that first captures the Republican Party and then gets a hold of the federal [7:25] government, that can do a lot of damage pretty quickly. So I wonder if the key question moving [7:32] forward, Maya, is this, will the Trump presidency ultimately be a cautionary tale or a new roadmap to [7:40] power? I think it's going to be a cautionary tale for the Republican Party that is going to have to [7:47] remake itself after this administration. One of the things that I, I think is interesting is so many of [7:53] our conversations, we talk a lot about what have the Democrats learned? How are the Democrats going [7:58] to move forward? The Republican Party is really at a crossroads. And I think that what we are seeing [8:04] are the limits of Trump's ability to put together a coalition that really he was able to put together [8:10] because he seems to be able to operate by a set of rules that don't really apply to anybody else. [8:15] And I think it's a combination of the coalition he built, the fact that there have been way too many [8:21] folks in the, in the media who have given him sort of a different, you know, sort of a double standard [8:27] that he's been able to govern by, but no one else has gotten that. So moving forward, different [8:34] Republicans are going to have to try to keep together a coalition that is incoherent, that doesn't [8:39] work, that is already bursting at the seams. They are going to have to figure out what does it mean [8:45] to look, to be in power after this? What is left of the party? And I think that is going to be the [8:51] question that defines their party moving forward. And it's one that I think I'm not seeing enough [8:56] people grapple with. Maya Rupert, Eugene Robinson, an important conversation. Thank you both for having it.