Nearly 2,000 pages of interview transcripts about Trump Tower meeting released

[0:01] hello everyone i'm kate baldwin we begin this hour with breaking news nearly 2 000 pages that's what [0:06] the senate judiciary committee just released offering the most comprehensive view yet inside [0:11] that now infamous trump tower meeting during the 2016 campaign the senate now publishing the [0:17] transcripts from the closed-door interviews and statements from some of the people that were [0:21] inside that trump tower meeting including the president's son don jr who hosted the meeting [0:28] after receiving an email promising dirt on hillary clinton coming from the russian government the [0:32] meeting has been a key focus as you well know of the special counsel's investigation into possible [0:37] collusion between the trump campaign and the russian government let's get all of it let's get to all [0:42] this right now cnn senior congressional correspondent manu raju is on capitol hill manu it has been a lot [0:47] of pages to comb through but what are we learning about well specifically mostly from don jr and [0:54] the lead-up to this meeting well there were a lot of discussions between him and rob goldstone who [1:00] was the music promoter who essentially arranged this meeting we donald trump jr had already released [1:05] his email exchanges with uh rob goldstone in which he was promised dirt on the clinton campaign goldstone [1:11] said this was a part of the official russian government effort uh richard support of the candidate [1:18] trump's candidacy and donald trump jr said i love it he wanted to get information about uh about [1:24] hillary clinton that could be damaging to her campaign and we now know that uh rob goldstone [1:29] testified that he believed that this would be a quote bombshell uh revelation to donald trump jr [1:34] and others in this meeting so there were a number of discussions that donald trump jr had uh with [1:40] goldstone it was also a russian pop star emin agalorov in the run-up to that meeting now when he was [1:46] asked about what about this coming potentially from russian sources donald trump jr uh said this i'll [1:52] read you from the transcript he said i was interested in listening to information the question was [1:57] information on hillary clinton he says yes information on hillary clinton on that came [2:01] potentially from the russian government again i had no way of assessing where it came from but i was [2:07] willing to listen now what trump jr testified was that they did not come the dirt did not ultimately [2:13] materialize uh he also says that he did not inform his father about this meeting but we are also [2:19] learning that there were phone calls uh in the run-up to the meeting including one of a blocked [2:25] phone number and when he was asked who that phone call was with he said he didn't remember and he was [2:30] asked if it was potentially from with his father he said he did not know and we do know from separate [2:34] testimony that his president's father did have a blocked number in one of his residences so that was one [2:40] question that these democrats have going forward kate well and a big focus manu has all along been [2:47] the evolving statements after the fact when this meeting all came to light what did don jr say [2:52] about the president's involvement in crafting that initial misleading statement well there was clear [2:57] concern within the white house about this statement about the story when it came out in july 2017 [3:03] first reported by the new york times there were those misleading statements that came out about exactly the [3:08] nature of this meeting now donald trump jr says he did not speak to his father directly about this but [3:14] there are clears to be some indirect discussions through hope hicks then the white house communications [3:19] director uh in one exchange during this interview with the senate judiciary committee staff uh he's [3:24] asked donald trump jr has asked to the best of your knowledge did the president provide any edits to [3:29] the statement or other input donald trump jr responded he may have communicated or commented through hope [3:35] hicks and the follow-up question do you know if his comments provided through hope hicks were incorporated [3:41] into the final statement he says i believe some have may have been but this was an effort through lots [3:47] of people mostly counsel and kate uh we've also learned that uh donald trump jr did not provide [3:53] this committee with documents about those july 2017 interactions because uh donald trump jr's attorney [4:00] said those were protected by attorney client privilege so we'll see if we'll if there's ever [4:05] an effort to subpoena or get those records maybe muller's team has a sense on whether that donald trump [4:10] donald trump senior the president had a more significant role in these conversations but right now [4:16] all this kate really providing more details into a narrative that we already knew about this meeting [4:21] these the offer of dirt something that donald trump jr and others say did not actually ultimately [4:26] materialize in this meeting kate and many more pages to comb through manu thanks so much i really [4:30] appreciate it we're gonna talk to manu a little bit joining me now sean turner cna national security [4:34] analyst former communications director for the u.s national for u.s national intelligence jackie [4:39] kucinich is a cnn political analyst washington bureau chief for the daily beast and seth waxman is [4:43] here he's a defense attorney and former federal prosecutor thanks all for being here sean first you [4:48] so what money was getting to don jr saying that he was interested in listening to getting [4:53] information on hillary clinton i was willing to listen according to the transcript that's beyond [4:58] the kind of i would love it that we heard so much and analyzed so much from the initial email [5:03] is that collusion well even if it is kate unfortunately uh what we've learned over over [5:10] time is that collusion is not necessarily a crime in this context but i i think that there's a bigger [5:16] issue here uh you know there's the issue of inconsistencies and statements that don jr may have [5:21] made or that others may have made in both the written and oral testimony and i think that's [5:25] something that muller the muller team will look at very closely but there's also the issue of the [5:30] the purpose and intent that the russians had in going into this meeting look we know that natalia [5:34] vessel nitskaya is somebody who was not a lawyer with dirt on hillary clinton she went into this [5:39] meeting as an informant who's closely allied with the kremlin eventually out later just recently [5:45] admitted that she was an informant for the government yeah absolutely so that's out there so the real [5:49] question is you know she was there to collect information and she was there to set the [5:53] conditions for a follow-on meeting so what i'll be very interested in is whether or not she actually [5:57] was able to accomplish any of that yeah what happened after all of this i think that that's [6:02] a huge that is a key question so but to continue on the vein of what the russia with russia investigation [6:08] is really centered on is russia collusion seth so donald trump jr was interested in getting dirt [6:15] but they didn't have anything to offer that's what came out from this transcripts in many different [6:20] places is that collusion still if they if he wanted it they didn't have it to offer do you see collusion [6:27] well first his kind of self-serving statements that they didn't have it to offer the you know muller's [6:31] investigation will prove up whether that's actually true but the fundamentals of a criminal criminal case [6:37] are being laid here i mean what we have is a quid pro quo the offer of dirt on hillary clinton in [6:42] exchange for the reduction of sanctions on russia and that was by all accounts now what the purpose [6:48] of that meeting was there may have been people more interested in it or upset that things weren't [6:52] going the right way but at its bare minimum that's what this was about and as we may know under a [6:59] federal bribery charge you know if you offer anything of value to a public official and that public [7:05] official offers or officer offers or promises uh official acts in the future that is the [7:11] fundamentals of a bribery charge and so i think that this testimony as a whole can be taken as [7:16] kind of setting the base fundamentals of a federal charge except when it came to the mcninsky act they [7:22] basically said at least we've seen the transcripts we don't know anything about this and i think even [7:27] it was said like go talk to president obama about it because my my father's still a private citizen at [7:31] this point but regardless jackie um this come this is all coming out um the day before an anniversary [7:38] the anniversary being that robert moeller was appointed to be special counsel um this coming [7:45] out the day before that because we know that we heard from rudy giuliani in the interview with bloomberg [7:50] that they their kind of tactic is they're going to make a big deal about this anniversary coming up [7:54] tomorrow and they're going to say that it's time for this all to ratchet down it's been a year it's time [7:58] to it's time to wrap it it's the anniversary's come up it's time to wrap it up this coming out the day [8:02] before it does what uh i think it depends on what side you're on frankly democrats are going to [8:06] going to point to this i mean it does right they're going to point at this and they're going to say [8:10] look at all the contact that trump officials and his son had with the russians um it's right there [8:15] it's in black and white both sides are are saying that it happened republicans are going to say yeah [8:20] but there's no collusion look at this now the one thing that the one of the many things that isn't [8:25] bearing out saying that the muller investigation hasn't found anything there are there's one person in [8:29] jail and a whole lot of people that are indicted that point to the absolute opposite of that they're [8:34] they he has been finding things we don't know what else he has so the idea that it's time to wrap up [8:39] now um is just a little far-fetched frankly and who can really speak to that with authority when [8:43] then when robert muller's team is like the only one that hasn't really been leaking um sean don let's [8:48] talk about the statement the drafting of the statement don jr said that he never talked to his dad [8:52] about drafting the july statement but trump but that trump may have commented on it through hope hicks that's [8:59] what came out in the transcript can you remind us why you think the president's role in drafting [9:03] the statement is so important yeah i think that because it really kind of speaks to how involved [9:09] the president was in these direct interactions with the russians i mean look what i think don jr [9:14] was doing here is he was trying very hard to walk a fine line he wanted to make absolutely sure that he [9:20] did not lie as he in his testimony but he also wanted to make sure that he maintained some degree of [9:25] plausible deniability for the president so uh in doing and doing that i think that what we see now [9:32] is that he uh he's kind of shifting responsibility and kind of saying maybe it's possible through hope [9:37] hicks but it really does come down to from a national security perspective it really does come down to [9:41] whether or not the president was directly involved in either the conduct of this meeting or in how the [9:46] narrative around this meeting was shaped after the fact well and seth then play this out for me because [9:50] one of the things that and um sean's getting to it a little bit is one of the things that you see in [9:55] don jr's testimony quite a bit is i don't recall or i don't know i mean on the question of did you [10:00] ever tell you did your father ever tell you he saw emails about the meeting or knew anything about [10:04] the meeting i don't recall did anyone else pass along information about the meeting i don't know [10:09] was your father involved in drafting the initial statement about the meeting i don't know i never [10:13] spoke to my father about it when someone testifies or you know in questioning testifies i don't [10:18] recall and i don't know so much does it does it lead you somewhere does it tell you something [10:23] well sure it starts to fail the smell test i mean if someone's going to say i recall x y and z i [10:28] recall you know things that happened at the trump tower meeting and it didn't involve x y or z but on [10:33] the other hand during that same time frame or even the year later i can't recall these other things [10:38] starts to wear at that person's credibility and you know john john jr is kind of changing flip-flopping [10:44] statements about this let's all remember in july 17 when the statement came out he claimed it was all [10:49] about abortion the meeting a year earlier we now know that's entirely false now whether the president [10:55] played a role in that statement or not you know it was yet to be determined but it's clear now that [10:59] don trump jr when that statement was issued was perpetrating a falsehood and why lie about the meeting [11:06] a year earlier if that year earlier meeting was not nefarious if there was nothing wrongful about it why do [11:12] you have to lie about it but then but then jackie but getting to the adoption issue i mean rob goldstone [11:17] he's the guy of course if we can follow the tangled web he's the guy who coordinated basically [11:22] coordinated this whole thing connected the two sides to set up the promoter the promoter guy [11:26] um he said he testified before the committee that jared kushner in the meeting appeared frustrated and [11:32] then at one point he says infuriated in the meeting when the russian lawyer vessel natskaya [11:36] wouldn't kind of get to the point he said at some point like i don't even know what you're talking [11:40] about um eventually saying that and then she eventually got to the point saying that she was [11:44] there to talk about the mcninsky act that's u.s sanctions that gets to adoption so roundabout [11:49] way for me to say so what's this whole thing about adoption even though they weren't fully there was [11:54] not full disclosure when it came to that first statement but was this whole thing about adoption [11:58] they were probably promised a smoking gun and they started going through this kind of convoluted story [12:02] about yeah donors and russia and the dnc and the way i read it that's when jared kushner was like [12:08] what are you talking about and then the uh the uh the russian lawyer started talking about adoption [12:14] and no one wanted to hear it which is when you had don jr come and say listen my father's a private [12:19] citizen you should talk to the obama administration about this that said they didn't stop there right [12:25] they kept on trying to to uh approach the trumpet the the trump campaign about this issue and push [12:31] this so the fact that they used something to get in the door that's what that's what frustrated [12:35] kushner um so no yes at the end of the day it was about adoption but that's not really just was why [12:41] then all this the smoke and mirrors and kind of what to get in the door to get in the door and the [12:45] cover-up i'm saying on the on the on the flip on the back side of it right why why there's this whole [12:52] mumbled mess of a statement putting out and then the crafting and the recrafting and the releasing [12:56] and the emails again it just doesn't look right it just doesn't look right and this is offering [13:02] us some more context about it all sean jackie seth thank you so much